Bleed Cubbie Blue

Yes.

It's as if the game were resuming after a delay of 12+ hours. Everything remains the same. Now, it's Lou Piniella's choice as to whether to put Bob Howry out there again to pitch, or whether to put someone else on the mound. But the lineups, everything, resumes exactly from the point of the delay.

The D'backs uniforms aren't so bad, except that they look like the Astros.

That Pirates jersey is just embarrassing.

I don't really understand...

...the newly found reason to have 16 varied jersey types. Home, Away. Batting practice, alternate home, alternate away...I'm sure it is attributed solely to marketing and $$$, but still...Not to mention each team changes or tweaks some minute feature on their jersey each year: (1) B.P. changes this year (I'm sure that is Majestic or MLB) and (2) font/name changes. Ugh.

Dan

Did you see.....

the logo on some on the infield tarps during the rain delay last night? Coincidence?!?

bigjoel - May 2, 2007 reply

Thanks...

...for the clarification, Al. I'd just simply chalked it up as a MLB conspiracy to keep the Cubbies oh-fer in winning one-run games. Good to know that the Commish is not out to get us!

marquis

So many of you think Jason Marquis is going to blow up and be the pitcher who sucked last year. There's no sign of that so far

How about the 14:13 K:BB ratio? How about his .233 babip?

How bout...

...his 3-1 record?

Exactly.

Marquis was never a strikeout pitcher, and so what on the babip? He's getting his sinker down and getting ground balls and winning.

ok

how about his 2.9% HR/FB ratio?

There are a bunch of red flags with marquis. wrigley will not be friendly to him in summer.

Where did you get that ratio?

He's allowed one home run this year.

Look, I grant you that Marquis sucked in 2006. I don't see the red flags; I see every indication that he can come close to his 2004 production.

Which would be just fine.

choices

I don't see the red flags

I can tell. Sometimes we make those choices.

His '04 was a fluke. and his '06 was a little unlucky. the truth is that he's been lucky so far, balls are not falling for hits, and fly balls have not been leaving the park. he's still putting guys on base at '06 rates and still allowing a lot of people to put the ball in play.

do you know the difference between '04 and '06? 5 more walks, 6 more hits. but many (9) more of those hits went for homeruns, and he struck out 42(!) fewer batters. the key to his '04 success was luck and a much better 2:1 K:BB ratio.

this season he's got the luck, but not the K:BB ratio. i guarantee things go sour for him at wrigley in the summer. guarantee. and if he doesn't get hurt he'll post a 4.9 - 5.1 ERA.

the red flags are there.

for the stats i'm using the best baseball site on the web, fangraphs.com

Great posts.

Other stats cannot be ignored simply because of the win stat. We all know the win stat for pitchers is for the most part dumb.

I hope Marquis holds on to his luck, and I totally agree that fangraphs.com is fantastic. Everyone should go have a look.

Dumb?

Wins are dumb? First I've heard of that.

Honestly, I wouldn't care if Marquis gave up seventeen runs a game, if the Cubs scored eighteen for him.

Wins are what matters.

Let me clarify...

I did say 'wins for pitchers.' Wins as a team are great, we all love them.

Does Ted Lilly suck because the Cubs lose games he starts and give him poor run support? If Rich Hill kept pitching like he did in his last start is that horrible because the Cubs lost? No. I'm glad the Cubs are winning, but wins=great pitchers unless the wins match stats showing success.

I must go to class, so I can continue this discussion later. :)

I understand what you're saying.

The converse is, of course, that one of the marks of a good pitcher is when he can keep his team in the game enough to win when he doesn't have his best stuff, i.e. when his "other stats" aren't that great.

Marquis did that lastFriday. One of the posts above refers to his K/BB ratio, and one of the reasons it's so bad is that he struck out no one while walking three that day. But he allowed only three runs, and the Cubs won. That's the mark of a good pitcher.

I've never...

bought into that theory. Roger Clemens is one of the best pitchers ever. A few years ago, the Astros refused to score runs for him, and he won like 12 games. His era was like a run lower than everyone elses, yet he didn't win the Cy Young. The reason? He didn't get wins.

Would anyone REALLY argue that Clemens wasn't a good pitcher given that he one only 12 games?

If a guy wins 15 games with an ERA of 8 simply because he had run support of 10 runs per game, that is not a good pitcher. I'd take the guy with 10 wins and an ERA of 3 who just got poor run support. All offenses being equal, that second pitcher is the WAY better pitcher.

I see your point, but...

... again, if a pitcher, any pitcher, throws well enough to keep his team in the game when he doesn't have his best stuff and wins -- then I'd say he's being effective.

I made a post here more than two years ago talking about how Kerry Wood's 2002 season didn't look so great because the bullpen blew no fewer than seven games in which he left with the lead in the sixth inning or later. Wood could have been a 19-game winner that year and all the talk about how he "couldn't be a big winner" would have ceased.

doesn't make sense

Al, that just simply does not make sense at all. You are saying that a pitcher can pitch poorly but still have a good game if the hitters hit.

You aren't talking about the pitcher having a good game you are talking about the team having a good game. Are you just simply describing the "quality start?"

If a guy goes out there and allows 5 runs in 5 innings all year long, but his team always scores 6, and he finished the season 32-0 you'd said he pitched well, was a good pitcher and had a good season?

How well a pitcher pitches has zero, absolutely zero, to do with what happens in the other half of the inning.

there's

great... nobody reaches base
good... few people reach base
bad... lots of people reach base
terrible... everyone reaches base

You can't say "sure he pitched bad, but he was good cause we won."

Poor logic...

If a pitcher gives up 10 runs, but the team scores 11, he technically pitched "well enough to keep his team in the game." But NO ONE would call that pitcher a good pitcher. Similarly, a pitcher who gives up 2 runs over 9 innings and loses 2-0 did not pitch "well enough to keep his team in the game." However, that pitcher pitched great. In both cases, it is the offense (i.e., no impact of the pitcher) that decided the game.

Also, you're saying that Marquis has pitched great so far. No one is arguing that he's had great results. The argument is that he's succeeding despite indicators that, over a larger sample, will result in poor performance:

Having a low BABIP is evidence of either being effective in preventing hits, or getting lucky on batted balls.
Having a low HR/FB percentage is evidence of being lucky that more balls haven't left the park.
Having a poor K/BB rate is evidence that either you walk too many or you let too many hitters put the ball in play.

Marquis is on the wrong side of all of these indicators. While some pitchers can survive walking this tightrope, the average pitcher meeting these criteria struggle. Marquis has gotten good results thus far, but the evidence suggests that his ERA is likely to take a very substantial turn for the worse.

I get into these discussions all the time...

.. and there's no way I'm ever going to change your mind, because once you get into an argument with someone who looks ONLY at stats, you're never going to win.

You see numbers on a page. I see a guy who's rejuvenated in a new situation, who's winning when he doesn't have his best stuff and his "numbers" aren't great. That provides a psychological boost that cannot be measured on a stat sheet, regardless of how good fangraphs is (and yes, it's a good stat site).

Where is your "proof" that Marquis' 2004 season was a "fluke"?

In any case, I believe the change of scenery has done him a world of good. I have every confidence that he can repeat his 2004 production, which would be far better than most 4th or 5th starters.

Time will tell whether you're right or I am.

Amen, brother...

...amen.

You know how Wood/Employee..

...might need a change of scenery? I liken that to Marquis. I like stats, I know wins are over-represented (e.g. Clemens two years ago and his lack of run support cost him what...four or six W's?), but I also know Marquis is pitching just fine. And I agree that the change of scenery has helped that victory total. Today will be #4.

Dan

They need a

change of shoulders. I volunteer mine.

Me and Lou WS 07 - May 2, 2007 reply

i get into these discussions all the time too

no, you are not going to change my mind, and i'm am not going to change yours. which is exactly why i never said "you need to believe this." i presented some facts and offered my opinion based on those facts. you've presented some observations and some beliefs based on those observations.

this is no bridge for crossing that chasm. and it's fine, we don't need to.

In any case, I believe the change of scenery has done him a world of good.

I don't doubt there could be some truth to that. And who knows maybe he'll turn his season around and be the pitcher you think he is.

You said:

So many of you think Jason Marquis is going to blow up and be the pitcher who sucked last year. There's no sign of that so far

I disagree with that. You feel and observe that there's no sign that Marquis is going to blow up. I can't debate that. But I can offer my opinion and point to all sorts of quantified observations that support that opinion.

as for this:

Where is your "proof" that Marquis' 2004 season was a "fluke"?

let's not go there. my proof is numbers. and when someone puts the words proof and numbers in quotes, well, clearly thats a dead end.

I'll gladly talk about why Marquis won't sustain his success, if you want to. But i get the feeling its not a conversation you are interested in having. Even if i leave out the numbers.

So yes, "time will tell"

the trouble with numbers

the whole sabremetrics revolution has come a long way.

but the trouble with the numbers for me is three fold;

most, if not all stats don't take all of the variables into account. baseball is just too complicated for iron clad facts to be pulled out of every number.
the numbers guys change their own findings every year.
i just think it's very difficult to extrapolate too much future performance out of the numbers. baseball, by its very nature is about exceptions to rules!

so arguing that marquis is just getting lucky and is gonna revert to his old sucky self isn't really an argument so much as it's a guess. and in that situation numbers aren't so much "proof" as they are some support for an educated guess. i'm not arguing against the numbers people. i think they have proven that many assumptions we make about the game are wrong. but i think when they over reach with their conclusions, they annoy people. and weaken their own case.

as an example, say the cubs score 11 in the first inning. and marquis, who has a sore arm and no feel for his sinker, goes out and pitches 8 innings, giving up 9 runs. the stats say he sucked. the game says he saved his bullpen, pitched through a bad day, and most importantly, helped his team win. so who's right?

wow.

so who's right?

what's the question?

my question

given that example, did marquis suck or does his "pitching well enough to win" mean he didn't suck?

it's a lame rhetorical question, sorry.

no worries

marquis sucked. i dont think there is any question about that. giving up 9 runs in 8 innings is a very poor performance.

don't you think?

well, that's the thing

i think the answer is a touch more complicatd. the numbers have to say he sucked. but i think it's possible that a fan of the game can look at a bigger picture than the numbers alone can give and say "he pitched well enough to win, and that's important."

so they can both kind of be right.

i mean, what if he knew he had an 11 run lead and knew he was tired, so he didn't throw his best curve ball to protect his elbow. how can the numbers account for that?

he pitched well enough to win

he pitched well enough to win

the only thing that means is "he didn't lose the game."

you are not saying he didn't suck, you are saying the cubs didn't lose. you aren't separating his performance from the result. that's not analysis, that's observation.

you can say:

he sucked
he pitched 8 innings
he pitched cautiously to protect his elbow.

but you cannot say "he pitched well" because he did not pitch well. he pitched poorly. he sucked.

clearly we have different definitions of pitching well, which is fine. it happens all the time. unfortunately though, we can't talk about pitching performance.

so i guess what i'm trying to get at...

and doing a poor job of, is this: which of the two standards is more useful for observing the game? or are they both useful?

because yes, objectively speaking, from a stat based perspective, he pitched horribly. but so what? what does that tell us, really?

i really don't have an answer. and i'm really not smart enough to have this conversation fully. it's just that something bothers me about a lot of purely statistical points of view. it's not that they're wrong...it's just that they're beside the point sometimes, you know?

follow

it's just that they're beside the point sometimes, you know

that makes perfect sense. if you know that marquis is purposefully pitching poorly because he has a huge cushion that makes the stats far less relevant. but it doesn't mean he pitched well. to determine whether someone pitched well or not you don't look at their intentions you look at the results. 9 runs over 8 IP is bad. doesn't matter that he was trying to pitch poorly.

or are they both useful?

clearly they are both useful. to me there are two camps, the ones who ignore the stats and the ones who don't. the ones who don't ignore stats have much better success in predicting future performance.

but I still..

would argue with your "guaranteed" that Marquis will have that type of ERA, based upon the stats. I am a stathead, but there are other things to take into account, like Al and billywan are saying. How much have you benefited the team by your performance, even if poor, enters into the equation as well, but there's no stat for that.

Additionally, for a relatively young pitcher(Marquis), regression to the mean is not a "guarantee." Too many variables.

guarantee

"guarantee" is hyperbole.

How about i say i "predict" a 4.9-5.1 ERA for Marquis by season's end?

Nobody is arguing that the things, other than performance, that a pitcher brings to the table are not valuable and worth taking into account. that's not part of this discussion.

Al said that there is nothing to indicate Marquis will regress to being a bad pitcher. I'm pointing out the facts that support the opinion that he WILL regress to being a bad pitcher.

Marquis not regressing toward his mean would be the exception. Too many variables.

Are you agreeing with Al, then? That nothing Marquis is doing is indicative that his current success in unsustainable?

No...but

You two are taking the polar opposites...One saying Marquis has shown nothing negative, and one saying he guarantees Marquis will go back to sucking. It's not black and white where it MUST be one or the other. I agree there is a possible regression, and some stats point in that direction, but I saw him get through another six innings today without too much incident.

guarantee

guarantee was still hyperbole.

that means i was exaggerating to make a point. you're confusing facts and predictions by comparing them.

It's not black and white where it MUST be one or the other.

Nobody said it was. there is lots here to debate, there is no reason to make up arguments. My point is simply that there are signs that show marquis will regress. throw out the prediction that he will. the signs, the facts, still exist.

After a few games like today, the signs may disappear, but as of this morning, a low HR/FB%, and low BABIP, and a low K:BB were all indicators that a regression would likely occur.

To say those facts don't exist is to choose to ignore them, which is what al is doing.

I'm back.

I agree with Jacob in this discussion. I don't really understand how you could call a good pitcher that pitches and gives up 8 runs a good pitcher. Like Jacob brought up multiple times, saying he pitched good enough does not make him good.

Also, wins are a team stat. No matter what, they are a team stat. Some players perform to such a high level that sometimes its arguable that they can control and win the game by themselves. However, I think that rarely happens. You need help from everyone to win a game. The only time I think it would happen is if a pitcher threw a complete game with 27 K's and he hit homeruns. I'm not sure if that's ever happened, but that's the only time I would consider a win and individual thing.

Marquis right now is clearly getting helped by his team if stats show he is being lucky. If he weren't being lucky he would be dominating, and I don't think anybody here would say that. Although by the stats, he just finished a dominating game. I didn't see it, so I have no idea if there were a ton of rockets hit or good defensive plays to help him out. Just to add, ANY pitcher can have a good game. I'm extremely happy that Marquis is pitching like this.

I understand that stats do not mean everything, and I think there are very few people who actually believe that. It's just that stat give you stronger support for an argument because they are facts. The number of hits given up by a pitcher is a fact. The number of runs a pitcher gives up in a game is a fact. Sure some of those hits could be bloop singles, but some of the outs are extremely hard hit balls. Just guessing and putting gut feelings down is not as strong of an argument. That's why usually those arguments look very flawed in my eyes and not very believable.

yeah

what sparkles said. well put!

Thanks...

you really made great points that I don't even know how they can be argued.

Good discussion all around, and I just wanted to note that nobody attacked each other so debates and no name-calling do/can happen.

agree with the good discussion

comment. polite baseball arguments are always fun....

Absolutely.

I'd also like to hear what jacob has to say after today's performance by Marquis.

I would say...

he didn't predict Jason Marquis would suck today. He just said that over time, Marquis will not be this good and come across as a good pitcher. He's just an average pitcher at best.

I don't really know if he would say that, but that's what I would say. Like I said in a previous post, ANY pitcher can have a great game. We have seen that countless times when horrible pitchers pitch against the Cubs. Does that outing make them great? No.

fabulous game

by Marquis. He kept the ball in the strike zone, and down, and mixed in the high heat. He kept people off balance, and not too many made solid contact. Also he looked confident.

Now the statistical analysis. The 5 Ks no BBs was huge. His K:BB rate is now in the '05 range, which i would guess is closest to his true talent (his '05 season). He kept up the GBs which will be key to his success. And his GB/LD/FB stats are also in line with his '05 season. He survived a HR to get his HR/FB rate to a saner 5.0%. His LOB% is a pretty high, in line with with his '04 season. But that's mostly luck, especially when you are walking edmonds or duncan to get to Pujols... that, i guarantee, is NOT "being careful."

He's not pitching at '04 levels yet, but with the outstanding game yesterday his season so far is looking like '05.

I still worry that at Wrigley, in the warm summer air with the wind blowing out he's going to have a lot of trouble keeping the ball in the ballpark. If the cutter isn't cutting Marquis is an extremely pedestrian pitcher.

I'm still guessing he's the pitcher he was in '05, and with the Cubs defense and the home field disadvantage he ends up with a disappointing season. But after yesterday's game, i'm less certain of it, and if he'd pitched his season so far against any top half teams offensively then his season so far would even be more convincing.

In summation, signs of implosion still there but fading.

jacob - May 3, 2007 reply

Okay, so...

this is a long way from what you were originally saying. I know you were exaggerating to make your point regarding the guarantee, but I think what I was objecting to most was your guarantee of a 4.9-5.1 ERA. I understand that the numbers may back your guess/hypothesis/estimate that this COULD occur. But he's also only 28, he can still get better, and though some of the numbers can appear to show possible regression, even the numbers you use are far from perfect. The numbers do not exist to show how hard the balls are hit, the trajectory of all the balls, etc. Even BABIP, ERA+, etc. have limits. That's more the point I was trying to make. Agreed that come the summer, Marquis will have pitch much better to sustain his current number, if even possible, but to guarantee that this has to be the case...why even play the games? Let's just give the World Series to the team with the best projections.

All right...no more ranting.

Orangeman94 - May 3, 2007 reply

hyperbole

but to guarantee that this has to be the case

nobody did that. there's lots to talk about without inventing arguments.

jacob - May 4, 2007 reply

i'm no stat head

but i used to be a math-lete. district 163, represent!

anyway, there's a reason the saying "there's three kinds of lies. lies, damned lies and statistics" is so popular. the number of runs a pitcher gives up in a game is indeed a fact. the predictions and extrapolations based upon that number are where things get fuzzy.

in fact, to borrow your words, i would actually equate "gut feeling" arguments with "regressing to mean performance" arguments. neither argument is nearly as bulletproof as it pretends to be.

i think the other thing i react to in purely stat driven arguments about why a guy playing great is just a fluke is that they just spoil some of the fun of being a baseball fan. i love early season streaks. i love guys performing above and beyond their history. i love career years. i love thinking that a rookie who is 4 for 10 is gonna be the next ted williams.

but again, in general, i think stats are useful. just not always the end all be all of arguments.

Stats aren't everything.

I don't know if by saying what you said you think those of us arguing for stats think that. But a smart stat person would say that is not true because there's always other variables.

I'm also a former mathlete, and I'm currently in an AP Stats class. I'm no stat head either. I love everything you mentioned on your list.

I just strongly believe that the gut feeling does not have a base, but the stat 'gut feeling' does have a base. I think that people who say that Marquis will eventually go back to his normal self have 'evidence' for their way of thinking/prediction. The gut feelings could be seen as random guesses. I see them that way sometimes.

I mean people feel that a change in scenery can improve player performance, but why do they think that? Do they have actual proof? No because that stuff can't be measured therefore nobody knows the true effect it has. That's why that's more guessing than stats. If a pitcher is winning, but the OBP against him is very high, we know it's been proven that the more people on base you get the more runs you score. That's why people could predict that eventually those runs will come around and score.

Re

While you recognize that statistics have their limitations, it's clear you're not familiar with what they are.

Any projection is, unless you're god, essentially a guess. The question is the quality of the guess. A good forecast speaks to what is most likely to happen, and is supported by an analysis of the past because the simple fact is that prior performance is the best predictor of the future. It is, however, no guarantee.

Marquis, so far, has great primary and secondary numbers. But it's not foolish to temper our expectations of what's going to happen when the wind is blowing out at Wrigley and some of those balls being put in play fall for hits, because it would be unusual for Marquis to maintain these numbers throughout the season.

The question isn't settled by presenting an extreme example that might happen once a season. It's the pitcher's aggregate performance in the role he's hired to play, and that performance is measured by numbers that remove the effect of his team's offense.

Now, one might argue that the knowledge of his team's offense might affect a pitcher's performance (you can groove the ball and take your chances when you have confidence in your hitters) and that there's no way to quantify this effect. I would suggest that whatever this effect is, it's so minimal that even if we could measure it, the analysis with it and the analysis without it would be essentially the same.

We can do the analysis without it. And that analysis says that even if Marquis keeps his BBs down, his style of pitching is going to lead to giving up more runs that he has so far. That information tells us that Lou needs to figure out which lineup gives him the best chance to score a bunch of runs and use it when Marquis pitches. He can save his small-ball guys for when Z and Hill pitch.

Jed Taylor - May 3, 2007 reply

If Marquis wins 20

If Marquis wins 20 people will still say it's a bad signing not wanting to admit they were wrong.

I was in the camp that thought it was a good chance to take and only had a problem with the years and money.

He could be about to be added to the endless lists of guys who just needed a fresh start.

kerrysotherwife - May 3, 2007 reply

Winning 20...

... is extremely unlikely, given the fact that no one in the NL won more than 16 games last year.

I'd settle for 13-15 wins and an ERA in the 3.75-4.15 range from Marquis. That'd be well worth the money, and I think he is eminently capable of such a record, especially given the good start he's had.

Al Yellon - May 3, 2007 reply

amen to the amen

i think the fantasy sports world has really led to the rise of this sort of stat-based way of looking at baseball. there's not anything inherently wrong with that, but for me the best parts of baseball can't be quantified. i think that team chemistry and attitude play a HUGE role in making a winning team. You can evaluate stats all day and put together the best team imaginable on paper, but (as the saying goes) games are not played on paper.

This is not to say that stats are not important. they are. but i believe there are other factors that are at least equivalent to the importance of stat-based analysis.

i think Marquis is doing great so far and i hope he can keep it up.

GO CUBBIES! Let's win two today!!!!!!

anormal - May 2, 2007 reply

"Chemistry and attitude

play a huge role in making a winning team".

I completely agree, but in the end this would appear in the stats.
If change of scenery and chemistry were the reason for Jason's early success than he would have the same "classic stats" (wins, era) without that low babip.

Here is where the numbers tell you that, no it's not that he's reverted to 2004 form (which all in all was a good year for him) but more so that he's been lucky. And luck turns.

We'll see...

Chitown Mojo - May 2, 2007 reply

Fine man...

...just give up on him, then. We got a #4 or #5 and he's not pitching like one so far, what's to bitch about? I'd be more concerned with our middle relief than I am with Marquis. There's enough negatively around here...

Dan

Give up on who????

n/t

re: Give up on who????

I believe he's referring to Marquis.

Correct

I am just saying, the man is pitching - what some say - is above his means. If that is the case, why are we not CHEERING him on instead of waiting for his great demise? Let's keep it up Marquis!!

Dan

I'm doing both...

more cheering than waiting for his bad start.

sparkles

have you seen the latest issue of Vineline magazine? There is a nice article on Z in there. If you can't find one I'd be happy to send you my copy.

re: Correct

FWIW, I agree with dtpollitt. To use Sweet Lou's favorite turn of phrase: Look, we all know that any pitcher with Marquis's style and history is a ticking timebomb. But isn't nearly every starting pitcher? Look at Lilly in the first inning last night. Hell, look at Big Z in almost every start last month.

I have little doubt that, just like nearly every starting pitcher, Marquis is going to have some rough outings this season. But until he starts failing the team on a regular basis, I see no point in slamming the guy. Thus far, he's shown incredible mental toughness and helped give us a lot to cheer about. (Hello? Two wins against the Cardinals.)

I think this is a good example of the different psychological approaches we all take, as fans, to the game of baseball. Some of us look to stats-based cynicism to prepare us for the inevitable bad times, others prefer to keep it positive until we actually have something to bitch about. I don't think Marquis has given us anything to bitch about just yet.

The Cardinals mention...

...is noteworthy because I, as did others on BCB, thought Marquis would struggle AGAINST his old team; he did not leave with hate or envy (it appeared), but was welcomed back with hugs and praise. I for sure thought he was going to bomb during both those games...fantastic to see otherwise!!

Dan

I must have been confused,

I thought you were arguing against Marquis and then for the man. My ADD, sorry, trying to work and do this does not make an easy task! For the record, I think Marquis is performing and we should enjoy it. Should he end up sinking, it will suck, but as Cub fans, we have a history of reserving more than enough time during the season to bitch and moan, why do it when people are performing well?

One thing that seems a good indicator to me is his performances against the Cards. Had he blown those, we would have cahlked it up to "well, the psychological pressure...". But he didn't so let's chalk it up to "the man is going to turn it around here in Chicago cause change of scenery sometimes does improve a players performance".

Marquis

Jason Marquis is a serviceable major league starting pitcher. If he chalks in with a .500 record and an ERA of no more than 4.50 while throwing 190 innings, then he will be doing his job. There are going to be games where he gets lit up like a Christmas tree (even though he is Jewish). But overall, he should be decent. I have to say that I'm generally impressed so far.

BlueMike - May 2, 2007 reply

Win two today

and only 2 below .500

wild bill - May 2, 2007 reply

Last night's downpour...

...and subsequent game suspension caused the following thought to pass through my mind: "Even God doesn't want the Cubs to win a one-run game."

Let's hope He changes His mind today.

I've heard..

..that He is a big fan of day baseball...the way the game was meant to be played.

I envision God...

...likening baseball to how Crash explains it in Bull Durham...

Counter

The Cubs are one of the only teams to still play day baseball. The Cubs have the longest WS drought in baseball. Maybe God doesn't like day games as much as we do :)

Jesse Guam - May 2, 2007 reply

Uniforms

Those uniforms are wicked bad. 10 years ago purple and teal were the rage. Now apparently dirty pumpkin color is king. The Pirates need to go back to yellow, black and white. Those colors define the city of Pittsburgh and are tough and cool looking.

BlueMike - May 2, 2007 reply

Thanks, Al ,,,

For your comments regarding those uniforms. I kept wondering if I was actually watching the Braves! Surely any uniform that makes a viewer think they're watching another franchise cannot be successful. When was the last time a Pirates' team wore a Pirate-bandanna red as a primary color? Ever?

In other words, keep that garbage in batting practice, if one insists upon those awful, untraditional colours.

But all of that fashion-sense aside, I almost turned the game off, thinking the Cubs would not be able come back ... of course, we don't know the ultimate outcome of the match, but that had to have been a psychological victory for the men in blue. Well, I hope it was!

Go, Cubbies!
--t.

Littlerock Rynofan - May 2, 2007 reply

And...

... the Braves' red tops, which they wear only on home Sundays, are also horrendous. The Red Sox also look ridiculous when they wear red shirts.

Red's a good accent color on a uniform, or even as a main team color (Cardinals, Reds). Just don't overdo it.

I agree on the Uniforms....

If we had a real commisioner, he would have halted the game and ordered the Pirates to change. That or he would have made all the pirat players drive to PNC park in a Volkswagon Bug....

Where were the stats that said "Jeff Weaver and Jeff Suppan are going to win a world series" there aren't. Marquis has been doing fine and we should be enjoying the fact that he's keeping his sinker down and winning and not complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet.

Go Cubs.

yahoodi - May 2, 2007 reply

I was @ the bar watching...

Did Izturiz have 2 errors? He looked horrible. Cost us runs with that bad throw that should have been a double play.

bakester - May 2, 2007 reply

One was a throwing error

...and I think the other was marked a hit, but it was an error. I did not watch a lot of games when he was with the Dodgers, but how did he win a Glove?!

Dan

Playing terrible

Cesar Izturis has been wretched. Neifi Perez would actually be an improvement. I'm big enough to admit when I am wrong, and I have been wrong (horribly so) about Cesar Izturis. What doesn't compute is the fact that he was a wizard in the field while with the Dodgers. He rarely has flashed his former range or ability at shortstop. And of course his bat has been dreadfully bad.

Another example of a decent veteran talent coming to the Cubs and proceeding to suck at all time levels of suckage. What is it about wearing a Cub uniform?

BlueMike - May 2, 2007 reply

well,

I think his cubs jersey is a few sizes larger than his 2004 dodgers jersey. Cesar seems to have developed an affinity for the hebrew nationals.

seanlovescubs - May 2, 2007 reply

As you can see from my signature...

I can understand his addiction well. God how I love that juicy dog on that perpetually stale popy seed bun! For the record, my uni size has grown quite a bit too over the past few seasons. Then again, I'm not the "starting" SS.

The suspended game rule....

is bullshit. This game should be over, and the Cubs should be preparing to play the rubber game of this series. If a game is rained out after the middle of the fifth, in my book, it's an offical game. If the Cubs fool around and blow this game today, I am going to be so pissed.

well, if it was just "over"

the top half of the inning would be wiped, and the pirates would win. i couldn't take that; this is a much better option.

If they used the old rule

the game would revert to the previous whole inning and the Pirates would win 5-2.

tharr - May 2, 2007 reply

No reason to be pissed...

because the only options were:

suspend the game and have a chance to win today, or
call the game, and have us lose, because they'd wipe out the top half of the inning and go back to the last complete inning (when we trailed 5-2).

The rule saved us from getting a loss. So don't complain about it.

You can be pissed that the rain came 10 minutes too early, before Howry could complete the 7th without giving up a run. And you can be pissed that we didn't get those runs earlier in the game. But there's really no grounds for being pissed about the rule that saved us.

Really?

So if the tables were turned, and an opponent of the Cubs was given three extra outs at Wrigley, you'd be fine with that?

I know I wouldn't.

The rule as currently constructed is fair to both teams.

OK, I admit.....

my being upset over that rule is not completely objective. I'm a tad bit biased, I'm just frustrated with the way this season is going and I am desperate for the Cubs to get victories any way possible. I'm much more relaxed with the ruling now that the game is over and the Cubs won. I guess I'm a shameless homer.

Well, they won.

It worked out fine. Frankly, I wish they'd do this with ALL games, even those that are not "official". I don't quite see the point of playing, say, three innings, then calling it because of weather and having to start over.

Wouldn't it make more sense to play six innings the next time rather than nine?

I think all scheduled games should go nine innings (or 8 1/2 if the home team is ahead). Everything that happens on the field should "count", i.e. not be wiped out for weather.

I'd guess the Indians and Mariners would agree with this concept.

Re

But that's one of the great quirks about baseball - the concept that if the current conditions don't allow for enough of a game to be representative, it's better to just start it over when they do.

And it also means that you have to adjust your strategy if you think a game is going to get called early and/or go into an extended delay.

Besides - how often does it happen? The DH needs to go much sooner than this 'problem' needs addressed.

Jed Taylor - May 3, 2007 reply

Agreed on the DH.

The best example of why they should suspend ALL games is the famous Typhoon Game of 2003, played in 48-degree temperatures with 40 MPH winds and rain blowing sideways. Eli Marrero suffered a serious injury in that game, which was called after four innings.

They never should have started, but given that they did, they should have played five innings to make it official, given the rules in place now.

If they'd been allowed to suspend it, the four innings could have counted, instead of starting over.

JMO.

Al Yellon - May 3, 2007 reply

i'd like to see lou do something creative...

send pie out to center. maybe start zambrano (is it his day to throw on the side?). maybe have the entire pitching staff ready to pitch to one batter and just manage matchups, control the pace, do everything you can to win this game.

What's up with Gameday Audio?!

20 minutes until game time and the stream is still unavailable. I switched over to WGN online and they're talking about Jane Byrne running for re-election. Did we slip into a wormhole while I was busy working?

http://www.wsoctv.com/mlb/13222064/detail.html

On a mostly unrelated note...

...anyone see anything funny about this news story's headline?

daubs - May 2, 2007 reply

re: On a mostly unrelated note...

That is the most disgusting headline I've ever read in my life. And I can't stop laughing.

tough day.

Absolutely beautiful play on words...

suitable for the Heckler.

I wonder if the headline writer...

... really knew what he was writing, or whether it was an amazing accident.

LMAO at the headline.

A corpulent guy like him

Bad day to be the royals...

Chitown Mojo - May 2, 2007 reply

Ugh...

The Royals are pretty crappy again this year...

So to bring us up to date...

...it's bottom 7, no out and Howry pitching to Duffy?

Yup

1-2 count

when

will they start?

now!

duffy is out

Interesting.....

I was at the last Cubs game to have been suspended. For those of you who don't know, Riggleman had been tossed the night before so he couldn't manage the club in the first game but could in the second. I can't remember how the first one ended up (it didn't last long is all I really recall), but Maddux threw a gem and ended up taking care of us rather easily in the latter game.

The interesting thing is b/c Mad Dog was pitching (and pitching well), it was really about an average day at the ballpark. Combined probably didn't last longer than 3 hours.

USCKB - May 2, 2007 reply

The game is underway

1 out

fo to jones

out 2

wonder if

howry will be done for the day

Has anyone ever recorded two saves in one day?

actaully happen two weeks ago

Milwaukee Brewers 5 Florida Marlins 2 (April 11, 2007 Cordero

please dont walk

anyone in front of Bay...

well he didnt walk

i no..

I got to 3-1 and i just hate walks cause it seems against the cubs they always score

struck him out!

niiiiice

Thanks, Bob

Fox sports

doesn't have the "game trax" working, this sucks...any suggestions? No Gameday allowed here at work.

is anyone's

gameday stuck?

i think

you can track it through yahoo sports

Everything is stcuk!!!!!

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP!

2B for Jones, he's hot

Wrong side of the diamond, Mark

keep it comin dat...

i am lost and hurtin. lunch hour too, so I could follow safely if it were working.

DeRosa and Izzy both GO

2 outs, Jacque still on second

Orange Guy at the plate

2B for JJ, now.....

2 outs after he lead off inning...nice to get an insurance run which they didn't in prev. game vs. Pitt.

Bottom line: We need a sweep today, finishing off yesterday's big W and going from there..won't be easy vs. Pitt. starter this PM.

Jones scores on a hustling play on inf. ground single by ....not sure.

writerinwrigley - May 2, 2007 reply

Nice base running by (gasp!)

akcubfan - May 2, 2007 reply

GREAT BASERUNNING

Quality hustle from Murton and a gutsy (but smart) move from Jones.

USCKB - May 2, 2007 reply

Jones scores

laroche forgot to cover JJ

and its nice

to see the cubs capitalize on others mistakes for once.

ORANGE GUY COMES THROUGH!!

Likely infield single for Murton, bad throw lets Jones score.

JJ and Murton

Excellent base running by JJ and great hustle by Murton.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I need to see this!

Pie running for Murton

Murton ..and finally some OF production

That's best sign of day...OF hitting and driving in runs for a change!!

Is Snell a lefty? If he's righty will be interesting to see who Lou plays--and who he benches--in the afternoon...all 3 of Jones, Floyd & Murton deserve some PT.

writerinwrigley - May 2, 2007 reply

Soriano

almost jacked one out to the deepest part of the park.

too bad fonz hit that to the absolute deepest

corner of the park.. that wouldve been out of there anywhere else.

OH!

This sucks, I need a tv now!

The game didn't completely

just pick up where it left off. Extra Innings had the Pittsburgh feed of the game last night and when they resumed, it was Len and Bob.

They're playing Danzig?

sounds like misfits now??

Cesar....

why is he playing?

Ohman...

why is he warming-up in the bullpen? Unless I'm mistaken, I thought we wanted to WIN games.

re: Ohman...

Well, don't look now, but here he comes.

OH-MAN!

This is what is known in the business as...

the beginning of the end. Ohman + (any lead < 5)= LOSS

Oh please God...

don't so this to us!

i thought ohman was doing better this year?

OK...he go LaRoche the lefty...

GET HIM OUT OF THERE!!!

well as long as he is limited to one pitch a game

we might be ok

Ohman is done...

...Demp coming in.

Doing Better?

At what exactly?

IS he taking continuing ed. classes on weekends?

TheEman - May 2, 2007 reply

so i guess not

sheesh

Here comes THE RIOT!!!

Cum on feel the noize!!!!

Let's go Demp..

..close this one out

Comcst's poll question was--

What do you expect from the Cubs in the month of May. Split 39% for Finish Above .500 and 39% Leading the NL Central. Somehow they forgot -- Giving fans Heartburn.

balk?

A balk?! No f**king way

N.I.C.E. play!

Lets get some runs and put this one away!

phew...

8th Inning over.

7-5 Cubs

Theriot with a double

At this rate, this game may not improve our record in "close games" at all....

woo hooooo

There's THE RIOT goin' on!

Theriot get another hit....

huh. I guess we should platoon this guy because you know he'll really hurt us with his defense. Plus, you know how Lee and Aram get nervous batting with men on base all the time.

I'd sacrifice a one-run win...

...for a win.

(Huh?)

LEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

is the man

ok boys

save some for the 2nd game.

re: ok boys

I had the exact same thought.

DLEE

is a beast!

akcubfan - May 2, 2007 reply

YES!

This team is hitting consistently.

So, Lee's "in heat," Bob?

That's just delightful...

Lee

for anyone concerned about Lee's lack of home runs, he's hitting .425 with his OPS at 1.114, batting .479, OPS 1.183 with runners on. I'd say he's OK

hey it is me

or is Aram starting to struggle a little.. :(

Those Ronald McDonald uniforms are so ugly.....

....that they make the Pirates "we are family" era bumblebee uniforms look good!

On the subject of unis, congrats to the Cubs for abandoning the hideous blueberry softball jerseys and sticking with the whites and grays. They look like a baseball team now, and not a slow pitch team. Now, if they just start playing more like a baseball team!

perseman - May 2, 2007 reply

whens the last time dempster took an at bat?

he took two last year..

C'mon Demp...

...close down this bizznitch.

OMG!!!

damnit...come on

i cant watch.

really im gettin upset

The run at 3rd doesn't matter....

let's get the batter out.

I mean't second...

re: I mean't second...

Done, 2 outs.

done, 1 out

Nice throw

Aram.

ok..

just make Bay keep it in the damn yard!!

seanlovescubs - May 2, 2007 reply

People still don't think Aramis' Defense is good?

Indeed

That was an outstanding play. He looks great defensively at 3rd IMO.

Matt Allison - May 2, 2007 reply

fantastic play.

will aram be known for hi d

soon?

ARam saves teh day..

..awesome play. 2 out

1 more

Isn't Bay the clown who didn't hit a single HR...

in the HR Derby a couple years ago?

No intentional walk to Bay?!

n/t

WooHoo!!

Cubs win!!!!!

CUBS WIN!!!!!!

Galvan316 - May 2, 2007 reply

Cubs Win!

Let's get the next one too!

YAY!!!!!!!!!

GO CUBS

Cubs Win! Cubs Win! Cubs Win!

cubs win

lets make it two

31 pitches for dempster.. will we see him in the 2nd game?

Good Job DEMP!

Game over. Let's play another!

Awww...you gave it away...

Gameday Audio must be way behind.

Ah, well...

WOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

yes!!

that was a GREAT play by ramirez. top notch. now, it's time to jump on this team.

Fly it!

seanlovescubs - May 2, 2007 reply

Nice.

Ok now I have a question.

Say there's a doubleheader, and it gets split. Do they fly both flags simultaneously at Wrigley? What if they win 2? Are there two flags of each type?!

Need to kill this 30 minute break somehow.

i tried searching

for the information but came up empty. I'd imaging the W is flying right now. Once the next game is decided they either leave the W up there or replace it with that ugly 'L' flag

seanlovescubs - May 2, 2007 reply

Try emailing

Len and Bob and ask them. They will find out for you if they don't know the answer.

re: Ok now I have a question.

I have no idea, but I bet Al does.

I don't believe...

... they fly the flag during road trips. It's only for home games.

And I think it's done only for the latest game -- so in the case of doubleheaders, or a case like this, it'd be only for the second game of the day.

That's how I understand it, anyway.

In the words of my father-in-law:

Thank y'all!

i caught some of the cardinal/brewer game

and it looked like capuano got hurt. he was hit in the leg with a batted ball, and i don't think he'll return, in case anyone cares.

Awesome flag!

And to top it all off, Cherry gets the win. (God I love that guy's name.)

First win for a Cub reliever this year.

n/t

they gave cliff floyd the player of the game...

but jones might deserve it. he's having a pretty good week. dlee as well. and soriano played well. and murton. that was a fun 14-hour three innings.

It was nice

to see a team effort. Hope they can continue with it.

LINEUP FOR G2?

Al?

TheEman - May 2, 2007 reply

i think...

...soriano, theriot, lee, ramirez, floyd, barrett, jones, izturis

could be wrong though

When

Is game 2 going to start?

probably...

...within the next 5 minutes or so

gameday

Is anyone else's gameday not working for the next game?

luv4cubs2 - May 2, 2007 reply

It worked

for me.

I would like to say Congrads

to the Chicago Cubs. They got their first come from behind win this season. They showed heart and determination. I was very impressed. I sincerely hope that this is a sign of a major turn around and they start playing good baseball from here on out.

Go Cubs!

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

To paraphrase...

....Shawshank Redemption:

"The colossally negative Mr. D. even managed to sound magnanimous."

Just kidding, buddy. I agree - Go Cubs!

Chadnudj - May 2, 2007 reply

game

has started

luv4cubs2 - May 2, 2007 reply

the game is started for me

fonz weakly grounds out.

A bit surprised no Pie

I thought he would get the nod today.

I'm not

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

I'm fine

with defensive replacement and spot starts in CF.

Floyd will not be with us next year, maybe not JJ either, and Pie has a long career ahead of him.

JJ is decent in CF and brings power. If Uncle Cliff were to go down with an injury, he is our only deep threat from the l.side.

He will NOT be traded before the deadline unless the Cubs are truly out of it.

TheEman - May 2, 2007 reply

The Riot doubles!!

Theriot!

...2B

DLEE doubles!!

Cubs 1-0

Lee is an rbi machine...

I don't care if he homers, just knock them in...

salparadise23 - May 2, 2007 reply

exactly

D Lee...

Of course comes thru.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

Eight consecutive games with a double

Quite a feat by D-Lee.

What is the record?

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Not sure

Most consecutive games with an extra-base hit is 14. Chipper Jones did it last year, tying him with Paul Waner, who played for Pittsburgh way back in the 1927 campaign.

DLee...

...8 consecutive games with a 2B.

Dude,

DLEE is a freakin doubles MACHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Arrggh!

Is anyone else getting this game on Extra Innings? The idiots seem to think the game is over.

DLee is a "bucket of doubles"...

...according to Dave Otto.

Lineups (belated)

Cubs

Soriano LF
Theriot 2B
Lee 1B
Ramirez 3B
Floyd RF
Barrett C
Jones CF
Izturis SS
Marquis P

Pirates

Duffy CF
Wilson SS
Sanchez 2B
Bay LF
LaRoche 1B
Dourmit RF
Bautista 3B
Paulino C
Snell P

Interesting to see how Jones handles CF.

USCKB - May 2, 2007 reply

re: Lineups (belated)

Pretty damn good lineup in my book.

I'd like to see Pie playing everyday, too, though Floyd and Jones have been undeniably hot.

Pie...

needs to be in CF every day.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

Nope

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Agreed

but...

Lou has a lot of OF'ers to juggle.

Floyd

Anyone else glad to see Floyd out of the 2-hole?

I like him 5th, especially if he can start knocking out homers like last night on a consistent basis.

hankwhite24 - May 2, 2007 reply

I agree.

Pink had no business in the 2 hole.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

re: I agree.

By the way, which one's Pink?

re: Floyd

I'm glad. THE RIOT in the two-hole is the right call. This team's 3 through 7 is hellacious.

Let's see...

Can Izzy go a whole game without an error?

salparadise23 - May 2, 2007 reply

nice defense

nice D in the bottom of the 1st!

astroview - May 2, 2007 reply

wow

that was quick. how many pitches did Marquis throw there? 4? 5?

Matt Allison - May 2, 2007 reply

Five pitches

and 3 outs for Marquis.

What a loser! :)

Tekboy - May 2, 2007 reply

and I had doubts abou floyd in rf...

Nice

5 pitch first.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

and

4 were strikes.

JFCubFan - May 2, 2007 reply

Izturis is painful to watch...

OK

DirecTV has finally fixed their screwup and I'm getting the game.

By the time I called customer service and sat on hold, they had the game back on before I got off hold.

Still missed the first inning and a half though.

Nice play DLEE

shoot

Come on Jason.

He's getting the ball up again.

And when he pitches below the knees..

he gets a ground ball.

He really

has very little margin for error on his sinker, if he leaves anything up it gets drilled

hankwhite24 - May 2, 2007 reply

Figures.

I thought things were going a little too smooth for Marquis.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

WAA???

Did Len just say that the drummer for Kiss was Alice Cooper?

Alice Cooper

You mean he wasn't?

Len

smokes more grass than I do.

How much grass do you smoke?

Well,

I usually...

Hebrew National? Don't they make hot dogs? Now I've got the munchies.

re: Well,

This answers the question quite clearly.

Yo pass dat!

Puff puff give, puff puff give!

No

Bob said that the players who used the black stuff under their eyes use to look like a drummer from some band and Len said you mean like Alice Cooper? Meaning they looked like Alice Cooper but not that he was the drummer of Kiss.

one run game

I hope it stays this way till the end. Gotta end the streak some day

luv4cubs2 - May 2, 2007 reply

oooh, look --

a Marquis strikeout.

I detect

a note of sarcasm?

TheEman - May 2, 2007 reply

Yup

so, can someone project the rotation for me?

5/4 - z vs. wash.
5/5 - hill v. wash.
5/6 - lilly v. wash.
5/7 - off day
5/8 - marquis v pitt
5/9 - z vs. pitt
5/10 - hill vs. pitt
5/11 -
5/12 -
5/13

does that look right? then what?

Well...

... Lou has said he doesn't want the two lefties throwing back-to-back, which is one reason they wanted Guzman to throw on Sunday. But that's not a sure thing now after he's been shelled at Iowa.

So the answer is -- who knows?

I'm guessing they'll make some decisions tomorrow on the off day.

I've heard some rumblings....

about Marshall being looked at for the 5th spot, depending on how he looks at AAA. Do you know anything about this Al?

Don't know how well it would work or if Lou wants three lefties in the rotation.

Hasn't he just

come back from extended spring training after an injury? I'm not sure he's conditioned for major league starts yet, but i'm not sure. Anyone else??

hankwhite24 - May 2, 2007 reply

That's what I've heard.

I'd say it may be at least a month before Marshall could pitch in the major leagues.

isn't his first start today in the minors?

As I recall it

5/4 - z or hill vs. wash.
5/5 - hill v. wash.
5/6 - hill v. wash.
5/7 - off day (hill in a side session)
5/8 - marquis v pitt
5/9 - hill vs. pitt

TheEman - May 2, 2007 reply

Can't

have too much of a good thing.

TheEman - May 2, 2007 reply

Screw Guzman

Let's just pitch Hill Back to Back games.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Whoah, there Dusty...

Siddown and chew your toothpick.

Hey 300 pitches in a week is no big deal

Be a man...Pitchers Pitch!

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

WTF?

Can we keep these home runs within the lines, guys?

I didn't know...

Izzy could hit it that far.

LOL!

Way to earn a Walk Jason

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Anyone else like the way Jason....

is a professional hitter?

It's a great advantage...

when your pitcher draws a 9 (!) pitch walk. Somewhat deflating for the opposition...

thekansasian - May 2, 2007 reply

Alfo was just made to look bad

that AB.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

ALFO

Is no Lead-off hitter...and should be hitting 5th until his OBP is above .350

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Right?

The man can swing the bat...or not in this case.

I'd love to see two on for Derrek...

Wish granted

PATIENCE!

i like it!

Theriot

Anyone know how he came up? Was he acquired as part of a trade or brought up through the minors? Just surprised we never heard much of him before this year. He's really a pleasure to watch play.

hankwhite24 - May 2, 2007 reply

Nope - drafted

after LSU won the CWS in 2000 along with his buddy, Ray Fontenot.

Unfortunately, the guy that got away on the same LSU team ended the career of Mark Prior (Brad Hawpe) when he hit him in the elbow with the line drive.

TheEman - May 2, 2007 reply

I have to ask

What is a "Hebrew National"? Some sort of political dissident from Israel? The joke is lost on me.

BlueMike - May 2, 2007 reply

Seriously?

It's a brand of hot dog.

Mike -

You need to brush up on your cased meat

hankwhite24 - May 2, 2007 reply

Boy are you goy

It is popular brand of HOT DOG ( kosher variety)

jessica - May 2, 2007 reply

Nice use of Goy!

two gifts by the Ump

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

No Joke Son...

only the finest tube steak this side of the equator! The every so tasty grilled dogs sold on the ramp up to the bleachers. Always served on a stale bun though...takes some getting used to.

"Pirates RE-INTRODUCE red to their uniform."

To interrupt..

Regarding the negative comments on the Pirates alternative uniform:

I would agree they are not very attractive. and who needs another addition to the RED uniform club -- but, according to the Buccos, they have some reasons to sport 'crimson' (or as dimwitted Hawk would say, "Carmine.")

San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - May 2, 2007 reply

bases loased

bring em home Aram.

Thank you, Mr. Snell!

May we have another?

the pirates

are the cubs cubs.

I'll take it

BJ - May 2, 2007 reply

Vienna Beef

There is only one hotdog in Chicago. And that is Vienna Beef. Sorry I didn't know what in blazes a Hebrew National was. I'm not Jewish.

BlueMike - May 2, 2007 reply

Oh okay..

so now you gotta be a Jew to know that there is a better alternative to Vienna Beef? I see how it is...

Huh?

BlueMike - May 2, 2007 reply

"forgive me, I'm not Jewish"

he's made these comments before

even before he was banned. It's been clear what his opinions are on all things jewish.

cashcowsquirtingsourmilk - May 2, 2007 reply

I for one

am completely offended.

I'm kidding of course!

Yes

Us Jews jealously guard the secrets of our perfect hot dogs from all the rest of you.

Which doesn't explain why they serve them at Wrigley.

On a side note, do you think we can get Marquis to do a promotion with Hebrew National.

Oh, and azweber9, I'll see your MMMMMM and raise you a drool.

Jesse Guam - May 2, 2007 reply

mmm

I could really go for a hot dog now - thanks guys for bringing it up. I'm not Jewish either, but I'd happily eat a H National now (they really are good BlueMike) and a V Beef.

BJ - May 2, 2007 reply

MMMMM...Hebrew National...

Sorry

I wanted to see how that would look...coooool.

Strange

that noone's warming up right now, snell looks really tired out there.

hankwhite24 - May 2, 2007 reply

GREAT AB BY AMRAM!

Down 0-2 to and he got a Walk...well done!

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Floyd

with a granny?

re: Floyd

Yes, I believe her name is Martha.

I knew it...

YES!

You can't throw that junk to ARam.

Come on Cliffie...

uh-oh

HBP...

...nice rbi

OUCH

That looked really really painful.

(Floyd was hit on the lower outside portion of his right knee.)

Kornchex - May 2, 2007 reply

mother f'n cliff floyd

cmon walk it off.

Is he o.k.?

Not watchin' currently.

TheEman - May 2, 2007 reply

He wasn't limping

that badly walking back into the dugout, i think he'll be fine...but he is a cub with an injury history

hankwhite24 - May 2, 2007 reply

Oh man...

...here we go.

Nice, Ian...

Keep em comin'

And Barret's granny?

re: And Barret's granny?

Beatrice.

You are really on top of these guys' grannies!

(Pun intended!)

lol

hey thats my grannie

maybe i can borrow some money from my new cousin.

the standard...

...floyd injury

Murton just got some regular playing time.....

nice pitch Snell...

This is a wonderful exhibition...

...of how clogging the bases HELPS a team.

cwyers - May 2, 2007 reply

Agreed...

Nothing special scores two runs.

AMEN (nt)

Luis - May 2, 2007 reply

But a Fork in this Kid

He's done!

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

"But a fork"? lol

and m barret dustys the last out

Inevitable perhaps...

...but still very frustrating. I was just starting to like Uncle Cliffie's swing. Well, let's see how bad it is.

Two Runs, No Hits, Three Left

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

cliffie

He ok? Anyone have an update?

BJ - May 2, 2007 reply

He Just died in the Dougout

Services will be held on Sunday for him.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

LOL

Cheer up, Mr. D!

I'll Try

But he was so young.

Tear, Tear.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

He was laughing

when he got back to the bench.

Man a base hit

would have blown the game open!

IS FLOYD STILL IN? Where was he struck?

TheEman - May 2, 2007 reply

He was laughing in the dugout and not limping bad

I think he'll be fine

Walker71421 - May 2, 2007 reply

he also went right to the bench...

didn't bother with the clubhouse or anything. looks okay.

nice throw glove.

IZZY

so when are we going to start seeing this gold glove defense?

mike @ Bleed Cubbie Blue - May 2, 2007 reply

never?

E6...

...whats with him

What is Izzy's problem?

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

A turd in return for Maddux

would have been more beneficial!

izzy is making the inevetiable look like a no

brainer

GAMEDAY shows

Another Itz-TURD-is error?

Nothing like additional outs in an inning.

Throw?

TheEman - May 2, 2007 reply

Well, see...

...Izzy is able to field the ball, he just can't throw it. (Or hit it.) So that's how that goes.

Theriot at SS...

...there is no way he can ever play as inefficiently as Izturis at short. This is a joke.

ReySanchez3 - May 2, 2007 reply

<SARCASIM>But what you fail to realize is...

Theriot's defense will HURT us in the field. He isn't an accomplished ML SS and lacks the range/arm needed to make us solid up the middle. The trade off for his offense just doesn't justify taking Izturis's glove out of the middle of the defense!</SARCASIM>

Crap here comes the Bullpen

That means the Offense is done for the day.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Throwing error??

Come on, how do you miss DLee??

The Riot

should be at short every day. Lou surely will figure this out sooner or later, right? ...Right?

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

re: The Riot

I agree that THE RIOT should be the starting shortstop. The only problem is that Izzy was supposed to be the late-inning defensive replacement. What good is a defensive replacement who can't, y'know, defend?

Not Izzy

that's for sho.

Brain Fart...

It's already later... but

hopefully he'll figure it out eventually (and soon). To tell you the truth, I'm glad he is commiting these errors so it becomes beyond obvious to management (as it is already to us) that he can't be starting games.

Luis

Luis - May 2, 2007 reply

If only....

we could trade him back for Maddux lol

AndHart120 - May 2, 2007 reply

There isn't a GM dumb enough to make that trade

Wait a minute!?!

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

He has to...

you hear that LOU???

LOVE IT!

I am so damn pleased to see Izturis make error after error. Soon enough, Lou will put The Riot at ss every single damn day.

ReySanchez3 - May 2, 2007 reply

darn

mlb.tv cut away from the Pierogi race

akcubfan - May 2, 2007 reply

Anyone else listening to Gameday Audio?

...LOL, "Get ready to cheer for you favorite pirogi!"

Error #5

Am I the only one that's disturbed that Izzy has more errors than the Cubs OF's have home runs?

northsidenonsense - May 2, 2007 reply

Nothing

compliments 5 errors like a .196 batting average.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

re: Nothing

Kinda like a cold Old Style with a Hebrew National hot dog, eh?

(Just trying to maintain the theme here, folks.)

Bring back

Neifi!

Lets not

Unless you want Dusty back too

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Bite your

Hebrew National toothpick.

Now now

such vulgarity.

Neifi?

You're harshin' my buzz, man.

Sorry, dude

If there's one thing I can respect, it's a man's buzz.

Wrong

How about a .500 OPS? It's tough too choose with this guy eh.

Luis - May 2, 2007 reply

make that

a .193 batting average.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

The Brewers...

...are about to sweep the Cards.

Talk about mixed emotions.

Re: The Brewers.

I was just thinking that. It would kind of help for the Cards to win this one, but then again...its the Cardinals, and I hope they don't win another game all year.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

Re:

I will never ever root for the Cardinals. Period.

ReySanchez3 - May 2, 2007 reply

re: The Brewers.

Yeah, the bottom line is the Brewers need to stop winning and the Cards need to keep losing.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHG

Someone wants me to go do work! C'mon people, I have important things to do! Enjoy the game y'all.

Izzy has lost his mind

They really should put Ronny in.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

C'mon Marquis...

...get through this.

Come on Marq...

We really need him to go thru 7. The thought of Bob Howry pitching twice in one day makes me sick.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

alright

he got em out of it.

mike @ Bleed Cubbie Blue - May 2, 2007 reply

whew

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

alright! de sade!

Scary stuff...

Nice job, Marquis

Well Izzy has forced Jason to pitch and extra 12

pitches thus far.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Soriano...

...is feeling it now.

And that's why...

...THE RIOT should play everyday.

DLee is batting .413.

Nuff said.

Damn. I shouldn't have said that.

You're right

Dipstick!

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

why Soriano?

dumb, dumb, dumb

It's tough to judge...

...on that type of move by the pitcher when you're going on the leg lift.

Soriano's base running

has been atrocious.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

That hurts.

Lou is no Dusty..

One would have to think Lou has seen enough with "The Turd".

He's not an idiot.

This is a Hendry mistake.

Untradeable.

Can't field.

Can't hit.

Can't run well anymore.

WTF??

TheEman - May 2, 2007 reply

what happened?

Yahoo sports has:

Soriano out at second, Theriot to second.

false cognate - May 2, 2007 reply

soriano picked off, rundown.

well, at least

he's batting above .300 for the first time all season.

JFCubFan - May 2, 2007 reply

yeah, he looks good.

two problems with that mistake:

we are terrible at getting a run in from third with less than 2 outs--so he was probably only gonna score on a hit anyway, sans wild pitch.
takes the bat out of rami's hands with 2 men on--that was rami time.

re: what happened?

Soriano was picked off on either a steal attempt or hit and run. He misjudged the pitcher and started moving too early.

does Marq

come back out here?

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

Yes

7 innings and he's only at 89 pitches.

Re:

Make that 88 pitches. That 1/2 inning was over so quick, I barely had time to get that posted.

that was bad.

couple weeks ago, i would assume we would now blow it. let's see what happens today...

Are there any Shortstops still out there that

the Cubs might be able to pick up at the trading deadline (being the cubs are above .500 at that time?).

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Not a good year to need a shortstop

I'm probably forgetting someone obvious, but unless the Orioles fall out of contention and Peter Angelos actually lets his front office trade Tejada, the best that might be on the market (unless thoughts of Alex Cora keep you warm at night) is Felipe Lopez from the Nationals.

Lopez doesn't want to move back to SS

He'll be back at 2b when Guzman comes off the DL and prefers it there now.

NO100 - May 2, 2007 reply

well

that was quick.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

I agree...

How many pitches did he throw that inning?

6

n/T

So two innings to go

Cotts then Wertz?

Or does Howry get a chance to hit?

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Hit = Close

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Situational

Unless the offensive scenario dictates a PH, I imagine Marquis will pitch the eighth (he's only at 88 pitches).

My name out of the hat for the 9th is Wuertz.

I say Rocky...

you say Cherry.

Rocky....

let marquis go the 8th.

he's only @ 88 pitches and on cruise control. let him get us to the 9th and then let weurtz redeem himself in the 9th

seanlovescubs - May 2, 2007 reply

sounds good to me.

Looks like they did it too.

mike @ Bleed Cubbie Blue - May 2, 2007 reply

Greates Base ball qoute ever

Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist.

Well done.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Every AB

Izzy loses batting average points.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

Marq

back for the 8th.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

From what I've seen today...

...I would like to see Izturis in the game about once every five days and the rest of the time have Theriot and DeRosa at short and second.

why?

please explain the need to have someone hitting .190 and 5 errors in 14 games in the lineup, ever.

seanlovescubs - May 2, 2007 reply

Lou

is a smart enough man to figure this out. We shouldn't be seeing Izturis much more.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

He's probably...

...going to play him to keep him sharp as long as he's on the team. I'm just saying I hope he uses him sparingly.

Marquis...

...dealing

Great game, Marquis

Solid pitching today.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

Who was it that said

Marquis is gonna tank and is not a good pitcher?

who said that?

several people....myself included. I was hoping that a changed of scenery would help him, but I was terrified.

mike @ Bleed Cubbie Blue - May 2, 2007 reply

Before the season?

Uh, pretty much everyone except Mrs. Marquis.

Now? Not so much.

calm down

its the PIRATES

Ah...

You do know this is his seventh start, right?

What an outing by Marquis!

Marquis and Lilly

Both pitchers have been remarkably solid. This is why it is a crying shame we are a sub .500 ballclub.

BlueMike - May 2, 2007 reply

Re: Marquis and Lilly

They keep pitching like they have, and we won't be sub .500 for long.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

It' remarkable that

you made it through middle school.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

man,

from what i've seen in the past few games though.. it looks like this team is starting to get win-hungry. That 5th inning is a FANTASTIC sign that this ballclub is starting to come together. Any stat heads out there want to look up if any of Dusty's teams ever had an inning where we drew 4 walks and scored two runs w/o a hit? My bet..... 0.

seanlovescubs - May 2, 2007 reply

I give Lou some credit....

at least he's not batting Izturis 2nd everyday a-la the Dusty/Nefi man-love-a-thon.

Come on Jelly Donut!

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Sorry...but Ward is use-

less

His OBP is over .500

So he's not totally useless.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Knows his role...

...and doesn't expect to be in the lineup everyday like every other player we have. 7 walks in 17 plate appearances with a .529 OBP.

Complete Games?

105 pitches for Marquis. I think he could have at least started the ninth with a 3-run lead.

ExNorthsider - May 2, 2007 reply

Curious

I was just following on gameday - he seemed fine, not too many pitches. Anyone watching the game care to chime in if he coulda had a CG?

Plus hes a good hitter, it's not like we needed a PH for him.

cubs4ever - May 2, 2007 reply

In defense of Jelly Donut

Give the guy some credit: He can draw a walk. The only reason he hasn't been hitting is because he usually ends up drawing the base on balls.

6 BB in 10 AB

I can live with that.

Why did Ronny only make it to third?

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

re: Why did Ronny only make it to third?

Maybe he was afraid he'd overslide the bag. :-|

Geez, can

Daryle Ward do anything other than walk? No, really, not a complaint about the walks per se, but the problem is he can't run and doesn't care to get into condition to run. So effectively he takes up two roster spots, since Cedeno is inevitably put in to run for him.

Otoh, Soriano is getting hot... hooray!

helen - May 2, 2007 reply

keep him in

wow..funny i almost was about to right of the season last night when I thought we would go 10-15, now we can go 12-14 and have the possibilty of sweeping the Nats and going 15-14

this team is hot!!

and the Fonz is even hotter!!

OK...you guys have learnt me...

Ward is not killing us. Unlike the two headed Ronnie Izturis monster. Soriano is coming around huh?

If only

Barrett and AmRam would get hot then we would have a killer offense.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Ramirez

has a .286 avg, 4 HR, and a near-900 OPS. He's doing fine. He's not off to a freakishly great start, but he's doing fine.

Soriano is definately earning his paycheck

see this is why we got him!!

TheRiot!!

he's so good

yes he is

6-1 The Riot!!

great day for Cubbies they're finally beating teams they should beat and getting some offense going...

writerinwrigley - May 2, 2007 reply

RIOT!!

I love this guy!

seanlovescubs - May 2, 2007 reply

I still lick my chops when

I think about the future lineup of...

Pie CF
Theriot SS
Lee 1B
Ramirez 3B
Soriano LF
Floyd RF
Barrett C
DeRosa 2B

That's an awesome lineup

Do you ever think Soriano would be man enough to fall to the 5th slot, though? I hope so

NittanyCub - May 2, 2007 reply

THERIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there goes the save opp

That is fine with me

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

THE RIOT!!!

"Ryan Theriot gleefully scampers to second with a two-run double!" -- Pat Hughes

hahaha

quite a funny thought

Theriot!!

showing why he should start! 6 - 1 on his double putting this one out of reach

Nothing like justifying your playing time.

Way to go, Ryan. This is the best position player to come out of the Cubs minor league system since Mark Grace. And that includes, so far at least, Felix Pie.

Pour it on, boys!

Derrek Lee!!

keeps making his BA rise and getting RBI's

7-1!

your a poet...

...and you didn't even know it

Way to go D.Lee...

When this offense starts rollin', they pile it on.

what a nice day.

DLEE

is hitting .410 with an OBPs of .483.

But he only has 1 homer and 17 RBIs.

I feel like I should be happy with that but I really would like to see his power numbers go up (even if his BA goes down.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

correction

.415, 19 RBI.

Mr Snrub - May 2, 2007 reply

your kidding right?

With Soriano, Ramirez, and Floyd WHY in the name of Sandberg would you want Lee to change ANYTHING!!! I will take the blistered doubles knocking in runs everyday of the week, and twice on sunday. Why can't we be happy with excellence?

no doubt.

he is squaring up the ball and hitting it up the middle. the guy looks about as good as i have even seen him look, and it is great to see after last year.

No DLEE is being Mark Grace

Currently there is no Ryno or more importanly Dawson on this team. DLEE is here to be our Dawson, not Mark Grace.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

re: No DLEE is being Mark Grace

C'mon, this team has plenty of power. DLee is hitting fantastically. Give the guy some credit.

(I will agree, however, that we should not be discussing a Cubs victory until it has, in fact, been procured.)

Chicks dig the long ball?

I, for one, prefer Derrek Lee over Adam Dunn.

The man has 17 doubles, it's not like he's turned into Ichiro here.

Lee

As I wrote above, Lee's OPS is over 1 (1.091 to be exact). He's leading the majors in BA. He's 6 for 9 the last two games. The guy is unconscious. I think we can overlook his lack of home runs.

I can't believe you guys

are picking on a guy LEADING THE FRICKIN' LEAGUE IN HITTING!!!! This is so typical of us stupid cub fans. We get someone great, and we complain they're not just a little better. Shut-up already and ENJOY the man hitting the crap out of the ball!

I'm sorry you all had to see that side of me, I'll go take a break and calm down.

Exactly right

n/t

tommy veryzer - May 2, 2007 reply

Agree

I agree with you. I was pointing out that Lee is playing fantastically. I wasn't disparaging him in any way.

excitement

i'm amped up. let me be rash and say, "this team has arrived."

Mr Snrub - May 2, 2007 reply

Two wins in one day is great.....

but I'll agree with you as soon as we come home and kick Washington and Pittsburgh's asses on this homestand. When a good team starts beating the bad teams consistently and winning at home, you know they have arrived. This upcoming homestand will be the test. But either way, this was a hell of a road trip, assuming our bullpen finishes this one.

I'm sure you got excited

when the titanic didn't sink right after it hit the Iceberg.

It is one game. They still have HUGE holes on the team. They are playing well right now but A.) they are still 5 games back B.) Shut the hell up or you will jinx them.

Get it excited when they actually win a one run game.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

JYNX JYNX JYNX

This is a professional sports league, not a cargo cult.

Dude you better scarifice a whole chicken

otherwise your ass will be to blame when they go on a 7 game losing streak.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Scarifice?

"Shay hello to my lil' FREND!"

Did your dog

shit on your morning paper? Jesus give it a break already.

It did in fact...

and they named that turd...Cesar, and played him at SS.

Seriously though, why is Mr. D bein such an asshole?

I dunno but

it's really getting old.

I'm an Ass

because I live in the strange world know as reality.

Well I'm sorry I will let you people go back to living in Lolly pop houses, riding pink elephant, and playing in gum ball raindrops.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Finally!

Have fun in that "reality" place.

We'll hang here with our 2 wins in one day.

Good riddance!

no...

you live in the world of negativity, pessimism, and borderline trolling.

There's a difference. Yes, it's only one game. But there IS reason to be excited. The offense is showing signs of life.

You don't wait until the season's over to celebrate a win. That's just dumb. Celebrate them whenever they come.

Hey Man

I was commenting on this: "let me be rash and say, "this team has arrived."

I'm sorry but that is rash and counter productive.

I wasn't trying to say this was a bad win or that the Cubs aren't starting to show signs of life. They are...but to say "this team has arrived" is seriously wrong.

They are still 5 games out of first with the Brew crew kicking ass.

The Bull pen still has very serious questions, Our Starting Pitching is way over preforming, then you have major issues with the 5th starter situation and at SS (but THE RIOT is making a case to say there for a very long time if he can field the position), and finally the Cubs are 0-6 in one run games.

I'm sorry. Until a few of these vital questions are solved then it is WAAYYYYYYYY to early to say "this team has arrived."

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Semantics Mr. D..

Semantics.

WTF?!?

I'm not being a Dick.

I'm just trying to point out the Cubs have serious issues that need to be addressed before we can start calling them serious contenders for the play-offs.

This is not a semantical argument rather just a valid one.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

WTF??!! Back at ya.

Your panties are all in a bunch because someone shose to word their statement regarding the Cubs noticeable improvement as, "them having arrived".

Those, my overly negative and frustrating friend, are semantics, nothing more.

The Cubs look good lately and if someone feels that "arrived" describes this, then so be it.

Apparently, you think "arrived" means that they are guaranteed world champs...not sure I agree.

LMAO!!!!

That was a good one Sue.

FLCubsFan - May 2, 2007 reply

WHAT?!?

You call me an ass because I'm pointing out irrational exuberance.

Give a break.

You people are the ones acting crazy.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

No

I call you and ass because you are an ass.

Quit attacking people here...you are a huge buzzkill.

So,

What's our record in games where Theriot starts?

helen - May 2, 2007 reply

I got 7-7...

Did anyone do a double-check?

That's funny, I got a Jack and Coke

I got Baileys.

Cheers!!!

Bastards...

Rub it in while I'm at work, why don't ya.

Aw, so sorry.

Let us know when you get home and we'll drink to you too.

We all know what BlueSox

is smokin!

That's what I got...

And in games that he starts, he is hitting .371 with a .390 OBP, 9 RBIs, 8 Ks and 4 walks.

Not too bad!

ar_hawkins - May 2, 2007 reply

Finally, the season can begin!

Wow, what a great pair of victories today. Timely hitting, and boy oh boy can Soriano hit all of a sudden. This team could get really entertaining to watch in May if this level of play keeps up.

GO CUBBIES!

TheNextCubsVoice - May 2, 2007 reply

Did I miss something...

Why is Cedeno pinch running for Soriano? Is he hurt again ;( ?

cubsfan4life - May 2, 2007 reply

cedeno pinch-ran for Ward

cashcowsquirtingsourmilk - May 2, 2007 reply

Whew...

thanks for clearing that up for me.

cubsfan4life - May 2, 2007 reply

Sori came in already, running for Ward.

set em down.

what a start of the season for marquis...

way better than i could even imagine, and he beat the cardinals twice. that is a pleasant surprise.

nice surprise isn't it?

Agreed!

<sarcasm>
You've got to look out for all those red flags, though!
</sarcasm>

Pie will be nothing but an average player.....

....if he's lucky.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Pie is like the greatest Cub prospect of all time? Are you kidding me?

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

what?

I hope you're kidding...

he's 22 years old. Care to guess how many 22 year olds are impact players in MLB? It's a handful at most. Pie is 2-3 years ahead of most prospects.

The kid isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. But he IS a terrific prospect. His defense is fantastic, and his offense has eventually caught up to every level he's played. He'll be very good. Give the kid time to breathe.

I'm not

Patteson was 22 one time as well. Pie has no plate discipline and you can tell he's spent numerous years in the Cubs system. Even worse, the Cubs organization taught him how to play the game.

Oyyyy Boyyyy he's so overhyped it's not even funny.

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

Patterson is nothing like Pie...

Aside from being great defenders and not guys who walk a lot, the comparisons end there.

Patterson never succeeded above A ball. He was decent in AA, and terrible in AAA. Pie, on the other hand, was terrific in AA and terrific in the second half last year and early this year in AAA.

Patterson was terrible at pitch selection, and never made adjustments. Pie seems to have gotten the message that pitch selection will be important. In AAA this year, his walk rate was outstanding, and he's looked more patient in the bigs. Patterson swung at everything. Pie is more discerning.

The two are different players. The comparison of the two is thus inapt. Pie will be outstanding.

I wasn't comparing Pie to Patterson....

....other than that one time can't miss prospect was 22 years of age at one time as well.

They're two completely different players but they both have one thing in common: Both were sadly overhyped.

Pie is nothing special, like we were mislead to believe.

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

I don't know what you are talking about but

Let really look at this:

He's 22 and in baseball age he is a very young 22.

Right now he is a MLB defensive Outfielder for any team in the majors. (and I mean Period)

He was off to a hot start in AAA but the bigs is a different story. But after a the first two weeks up he is hitting over .275. And his speed on the bases is unmatched on the team.

I truly believe he need 1 more full year in the minors before he will be ready. But I also believe next year he could start in center and hit .305 and have an OBP over .350. Not to bad for rookie and he will still have a huge upside to build towards. The best part is he doesn't seem to be a Head Case like Patterson.

The worst that could happen is Pie turns into Murton. Still get you something at a trade deadline.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Where are you getting the .275?

I think he's in the .230 range.

I agree that he can play defense for anyone, and I also agree that it probably would have been better for him to have another full year at Iowa. But it looks like he's here to stay, and if the offense performs like we all hope it can, they should be able to hide him in the lineup and be happy with what they get from him.

tommy veryzer - May 2, 2007 reply

In the last week he has been hitting .275

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

He's hitting .222 overall

Bottomline is, he's nothing special and I'm disappointed in what I've seen from the greatest prospect in Cubs history.

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

I'm disappointed with your face!

J/K

I can understand your frustration but Pie under preforming because he was called up too soon I think is a minor problem with this team.

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

Well then...

...you haven't met my Male Pattern Baldness.

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

A true Cubs Fan

A true Cubs fan will declare that Pie is a failure because he is not hitting like an All Star. That's because a true Cubs fan has no understanding of the idea that young players take time to develop and do not appear at the majors with a full skills set. True Cub fans also do not understand that, unlike cheese and wine, bringing it up and then leaving it in a cellar (or in this case on the bench) does not give the player the "aging" that they need to play better.

Look at how bad a set of numbers the veterans had to put up and how good he had to play before The Riot got a chance for playing time.

Yes, Pie's a failure and just about every other player that has ever played the game, by Cub fan standards was also a failure. After all, gotta love those older ball players with declining skills sets. After all, Cliff Floyd looks so good when swinging a bat that we can ignore the fact that he's 40 points below his career OBP and 60 points below his career slugging percentage. We all know that he's going to have a career year with the Cubs. After all he's a veteran player.

frustratedfan - May 3, 2007 reply

Welcome to the discussion,

Blue Mike. Oh, and you must be MrDurden, too.

Littlerock Rynofan - May 2, 2007 reply

Discuss the topic at hand....

....and enlighten us with your prodigious baseball knowledge, tough guy.

That's right, you don't have any and couldn't see talent if one of your children came out holding a louisville slugger.

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

Um,

she's a woman.

It's still funny.

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

Uhh ...

I don't have Pie's name in my boardname ... or his old number. Who's the better judge of talent?

Littlerock Rynofan - May 2, 2007 reply

Uhhhh

What do you call a car that breaks down after you buy it? Let me give you a hint: Starts with an L and ends with an N.

Now can you figure out why I have Pie's name in my boardname (I prefer user name)?

lemon17pie - May 3, 2007 reply

Oh, I get ...

I thought you'd simply gone for the simple, obvious pun when you meant to go for the ironic, put the knife in, twist, of a pun. And no, I'm not much of a stats' head, but am learning that here. That's why I enjoy this here place. I didn't know what OPS was until coming to BCB.

Sorry. My bad.

--t.

Littlerock Rynofan - May 3, 2007 reply

my love don't give me presents.

lou with the switch

weurtz hurt or is he trying to let eyre figure out how to get a lefty out?!

seanlovescubs - May 2, 2007 reply

getting eyre some work.

FLY IT!!!

seanlovescubs - May 2, 2007 reply

that ball was crushed....

not exactly a confidence builder.

GREAT POINT!

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

I thought

you were headed off to "reality"?

You can't see it but I have my hand to my forehead, fingers in the shape of an "L".

and yet you continue to acknowledge it

IF you're going to disperage someone and call them names and yet continually interact with them, you are nothing more than which you play with.

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

And what about you?

Chiming in to say your piece? I guess you are in the same class as well.

Maybe Al can

lock them in the closet for future games. ;-)

I like the way you think Sue!

Thanks

Igotchoback

Didn't see that one coming Az...

...I'm through with you.

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

Good cause you are confusing me...

what is this a response to?

CUBS WIN!!! CUBS WIN!!! CUBS WIN!!!

Cubs win!!!

Great day for Cubs fans. Well most of them any way.

great. they come back to win the series.

great. let's win the next two.

cubs win!!!!

2 wins what a geat day! Thats 5 out of 6. Now lets sweep the Nats.

Me and Lou WS 07 - May 2, 2007 reply

Cubs

have a great chance here to make a move with the Nats and Pirates coming to Wrigley for the next 6.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

Hopefully ...

They can overcome their aversion to winning at home. That said, opportunity awaits them ... go, Cubbies!

Littlerock Rynofan - May 2, 2007 reply

My pink elephant's name is Beatrice.

I named her after Michael Barrett's grandmother.

Looks like

Daver needs someone to call him a cab.

Do I have to do everything????

Daver. You are a cab.

Daver, you are a cab...

DOH!

lol

re: Looks like

Whaddya mean?! I'm dot nrunk, occifer.

Mine's name is Martha

after ARam's gram.

8 of 9 hits....

...by Soriano, Theriot, and Lee. Just goes to show what production at the top of the order can produce.

If he keeps hittin like this

I suppose he can stay in leadoff.

I'll take that as a compliment...

...now someone help me up off the floor.

Why? What has the floor done?

Where has

Cotts been this week? Is it possible he is a candidate againt for the 5th starter spot and being held back for it?(becuase Lou clearly isn't too gung ho on Guzman's AAA performance right now).

HeyGundy - May 2, 2007 reply

Mr. Durden...

...I think the point azweber9 and others are trying to make is that our team just pulled off a couple of very impressive victories in the expanse of about four to five hours. Can't we just savor this for a while? There's an off day tomorrow -- plenty of time to get back to the negatives then.

Hey, bartender, this glass isn't going to refill itself...

Let the guy be a

negative nelly. I could care less if he is still negative after we win.

Me and Lou WS 07 - May 2, 2007 reply

I very happy with the Cubs wins, too

But as I said down below it is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too early to say "this team has arrived."

Lets see what happens this week end. If they can run over the very very very weak Nationals and get a sweep then and then take two of three from the Pit next week then sweep the Phils you might be able to say "this team has arrived."

MrDurden - May 2, 2007 reply

re: I very happy with the Cubs wins, too

Fair enough. I happen to agree with you on that. I just think you may be reading a little too much into a very brief comment that someone clearly posted in the throes of victory.

When

is the next time we will need a 5th starter?

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

Suspended game

Isn't yet available on MLBTV.

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

I suppose ...

...it never will.

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

Looks

like we won't need a 5th starter until Sunday, May 13th at Philly.

jshipp - May 2, 2007 reply

Marquis is a workhorse

Innings eater type pitcher a la Jon Lieber of a few years back...just what we need. Before his problems last year, he was very effective like this notching a lotta W's for Cardinals (who look dead-flat right now, and did before the death of their relief pitcher).

I do worry that we need a semi-effective (at least) fifth starter sooner than later...wonder who it will be? Will they call up Guzman to work this weekend?? Vs. the Nats be a good time to give the kid a go...what are our other options anyway, don't see Cotts or anyone else on current roster filling this role.

Sweep gets us above .500 I say go for it!! Sori should be motivated against his ex-team, too...

writerinwrigley - May 2, 2007 reply

Good comparison to Lieber, so far.

I tell you what, if he can have a season like Lieber did before his surgery, this club is going to be good.

lemon17pie - May 2, 2007 reply

i don't think guzman's gonna pitch yet..

i think they'll try to stretch it...next fifth starter spot could be cotts i think. he's got to be in the running.