In the midst of the seemingly hourly updates on a possible Jake Peavy trade (they're getting almost as tiresome as the discussion last year of the deal for Brian Roberts that never happened), I thought it would be useful to post a list of some of Jim Hendry's best deals since he became general manager in July 2002:
Now, answer this question honestly: how many of those deals did we hear a single peep about before they happened?
The correct answer is "None", because they all seemingly happened out of nowhere, unexpected either for the player acquired (did anyone really think D-Lee was coming here? He was rumored to be headed to the Orioles, among others), or for the idea that they'd happen at all (how many of us thought Todd Hundley's deal was dumpable?). My point is this: it seems the more we hear about a potential Cub trade, the less likely it is to happen. And I suspect that's what is going on with the Peavy rumors: all smoke, no fire. Peavy will either become a Brave, or go to some other team that hasn't even meen mentioned, but not become a Cub. I believe Jim Hendry is working hard on potential deals, but this isn't one of them. (Granted, that a couple of the deals mentioned above were salary dumps, but Hendry still had to become aware of them and offer the right players, otherwise they might have gone elsewhere.)
Just before the Hendry era, remember the Fred McGriff deal? That one dragged out for three weeks before McGriff decided -- magnanimous soul that he was -- to drag himself away from his family in Tampa to help the Cubs' push to the NL Central title in 2001, which ultimately failed. McGriff's numbers were decent in Chicago, but his attitude sucked. Fortunately, the Cubs gave up very little for him (infielder Jason Smith, who has played for five teams since leaving the Cubs and has a .221 lifetime BA to show for it).
So be a little patient, at least. The open free agent season doesn't start till Friday. I have faith in Jim Hendry -- who has made many excellent moves in the last two years -- to put the right pieces on the field for 2009.
A couple of things that flew under the radar yesterday:
Soto said he talked to Blanco recently and expects the free agent backup to return to the Cubs, who declined their $3 million option on him in hopes of re-signing him for less. "He wants 100 percent to come back and doesn't want to go nowhere [else]," Soto said.
0 recs | 248 comments
da
wont be a cub.. (is “meen” a word?)
ballstitch - November 12, 2008
no pre-trade peeps on the Harden deal?
Once the CC sweepstakes geared up, seemed like there was lots of noise about Harden as a possible plan B. Or are you not counting the BCB wonks?
ballhawk - November 12, 2008
You're right, there was some talk here.
But I don’t think anyone figured Billy Beane would deal him that quickly.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
what still surprises me is how little we gave up for him
this deal will be a very interesting one to look at in a few years with our Hindsight 20/20 glasses on.
ballhawk - November 12, 2008
Oh, definitely.
I suppose it’s still possible for Gallagher to become a good solid major league starter, and maybe Donaldson will be something in a couple of years.
But Murton and Patterson are done, I think.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
done?
I don’t suppose they’ll have careers worth noting, but they’re only 27 and 25, respectively. Murton’s at least going to be league average or slightly better (at best) at age 28, dontchathink? His 2006 wasn’t exactly a slouch season for a rookie.
IowaCubs- - November 12, 2008
Yabbut...
… after being installed in Oakland’s lineup, he completely stopped hitting. I suspect his confidence is gone. At 28 he’s not even as good a hitter as Micah Hoffpauir any more.
Patterson simply is not a major league player.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Memory can be deceiving
But I remember lots of Harden to the Cubs rumors.
Cubinator - November 12, 2008
There was a lot of talk about wanting Harden here...
… from one poster in particular. But I don’t recall a lot of mass media rumors about it.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Agreed.
Call it the BlueMike Effect. Repetition does not equal rumor.
daver - November 13, 2008
In today's Sun Times
Gordon Wittenmayer raises some red flags about Peavy: His injury history and his home-road splits. Living in San Diego, I’ve followed him a bit more closely than Chicago fans, and I’d second that view.
Be careful what you wish for.
Clark Addison - November 12, 2008
In that case, I wish for Jimmy Rollins, Grady Sizemore, and world peace...
and yes – in that order. ;-)
ballhawk - November 12, 2008
I think I'd take Sizemore first.
:)
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
I'll take Justin Pedroia
…screw world peace. :)
leothelip - November 12, 2008
who's that?
northsider - November 13, 2008
Ok how bout Rollins AND world peace ?
Doggie Stalker - November 12, 2008
Sizemore would be the perfect player for this team
bren - November 12, 2008
Grady or Ted?
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 12, 2008
How bout Tom
he was great in Saving Private Ryan
bren - November 12, 2008
Plus, he has the leadership qualities you want
he’s like a Henry Blanco-type behind the plate.
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
How 'bout Hanley Ramirez...
…and all-out shooting war with Canada?
daver - November 12, 2008
Well then
Without the benefit of reading Wittnemayer’s article, you show me a pitcher in the major leagues that you can unequivocally state DOES NOT have a red flag or several, and I’ll show you the unicorn and Minotaur I have hiding in my garage.
krummy12 - November 12, 2008
Here's Wittenmyer's article.
Linky
Relevant paragraphs:
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
And in a few years the Giants might be interested in him as well
Cottage Industry?
I think it is simply modus operandi going opposite of the A’s who sell off anybody over 29 and acquire everyone under 25
Ivy Walls - November 12, 2008
My take
To me, the article fully supports a couple of things. First, Peavy’s market value isn’t nearly as high as many seem to believe. Second, and going hand in hand with the first, the Cubs aren’t going to have to trade every breathing human in their system to acquire him. One legitimate prospect and a few spare parts and Peavy lands in Chicago.
krummy12 - November 12, 2008
Peavy
I’d rather keep Dempster get a lesser pitcher for either a FA or less prospects to go the other way and get a better OF and/or Roberts than get Peavy.
puckishcubsfan - November 12, 2008
Is that Matt Murton's unicorn?
Because he really misses it.
daver - November 12, 2008
And here's...
…the link.
daver - November 12, 2008
D'oh - nevermind. Should've scrolled down.
daver - November 12, 2008
I want Papa Hank back...
… He’s good for 100 ab, right and he can start against lefties. It just feels good to know he’s there…
Then again, we could keep that 3 mil, use Koyie Hill as a backup and use it to sign Marte to two years at 8mil or something.
IowaCubs- - November 12, 2008
Well, if Koyie isn't going to telegraph pitches
then maybe he’d be an option.
But I think Blanco is better as an option. He’ll probably get something closer to 2 years, $3 million total, would be my guess.
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
Agreed.
The Cubs want him to be in the organization as a coach or minor league manager when he retires, so an extra year would be a strong incentive for him to stay.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Based on how he helped Soto
I’d say he’d make an excellent roving catching/defense instructor in the Cubs organization, if he didn’t want to start out as a manager in the system.
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
Agreed.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Blanco is as much a coach player as any Cub
BTW, wonder if Greg Maddux is willing to start his next career as a pitching coach/bench coach.
Although I think he wants to do it in So CA
Ivy Walls - November 12, 2008
I could see him
working as a pitching coach for the Las Vegas 51’s – it’d be close to home – and wouldn’t be a bad place to start.
However, it’s in the Toronto organization now, and I don’t know if he’d want to work for an organization he’s never been a part of.
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
Marte is not available.
He re-signed with the Yanks, according to este artículo en español.
No tears from me. I would hate to give up a first round draft choice for a RP.
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
Especially if the RP is Marte.
DGU - November 12, 2008
hmm... didn't realize he was type A
good signing by the Yankees, then.
IowaCubs- - November 12, 2008
Man, I hate
Fred McGriff for that reason alone. I understand that there is more to life than just playing baseball, and I won’t question anyone’s motives but this day in age (sports salaries, air travel, etc), choosing to stay on a non-2008 Tampa team instead of a Cubs team in the hunt should’ve sent up red flags.
The Cubs were 60-43 when McGriff came and ended the season 88-73. That’s 28-30 with McGriff.
Has anyone read anything about the Cubs offering Howry arbitration? He’s surprisingly a “Type A” Free Agent based on his 2007 season and the fact that the formula might skew towards appearances. Would the Cubs risk him accepting it on a one-year deal? Would it detract the Giants enough to sign him anyway? I think if the Giants got him, they’d still keep their first round pick, but they’d lose their 2nd round pick to the Cubs.
I would hope the Cubs offer him arbitration, and see if he signs elsewhere. At worst bring him to Mesa and see what’s left. Someone will always need an arm and I think he could be traded then for anything you can get.
CubFan81 - November 12, 2008
And then when McGriff left the Cubs...
… he signed with the Dodgers, almost as far as you can get from Tampa and still be in the major leagues.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
I'll never forget a walkoff HR I saw by McGriff...
…at Wrigley. Can’t remember if it was 2001 or 2002, but good times.
I don’t think you can fault McGriff for his play. He had an OPS+ of 145 in 2001, and 125 in 2002. I don’t think any of us would place full blame for 2008 on Derrek Lee’s shoulders with his 110 OPS+.
IowaCubs- - November 12, 2008
Had those same red flag thoughts about McGriff at the time, but all was forgiven...
…when he crushed one that went across Sheffield on the fly and ended up in a front yard. I snaked my arm through the wrought iron fence and grabbed the ball and a big clump of tall grass. Still have the ball – and the grass.
Got his autograph several years later, when he was trying to make a comeback with Tampa during Spring Training. 7:00 in the morning and he was in the cages, hitting a ball off a tee, then leaning over and putting another one on. Over and over. No other players, no coaches, just him for close to an hour.
I silently took back every unkind word/thought I had about him as I watched him trying to get his swing back and extend his career. It was a powerful and sobering baseball moment for me.
ballhawk - November 12, 2008
I liked Crime Dog...
… and was excited about him being with the Cubs. However, the way he came over kinda left me scratching my head. Though, he never seemed comfortable being with the Cubs, his numbers were pretty good. Hard to argue about a guy who hit 30 HRs and drive in a 100 RBI’s. Still, I wish things went better while he was there.
I was wondering if everybody was so used to have Mark Grace at 1st base for so long… it just became hard to accept somebody permanent at that position after the way Grace left. I have no idea though… just a thought.
TheHawkRules - November 12, 2008
San Francisco could be good for Howry
With the larger park, some of the bombs he gave up last year might be caught…
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
It's not that much larger a park, though it is pitcher friendly.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Bob needs a pitcher-friendly park
Though if he returned, Lou could just pitch him on the days the wind was blowing in at over 10 mph.
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
So Howry could pitch in April and early May...
… and then, having done well in the cold weather, could be traded to a team that doesn’t know about that?
Works for me.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Except that he is a notoriously slow starter. So he sucks when the hitting
conditions are poor. What an enigma. You figure it out.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 12, 2008
I would trade him the last week of March
before he can actually hurt the team, should he start slow. Find a team with bullpen needs (hello, Detroit), and peddle him there.
And now that I think about it, if Howry took arbitration or re-signed, packaging him and Hoffpauir to Detroit for anything might not be a bad idea.
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
drewishdrewid - November 12, 2008
I don't know if Detroit would throw in the yellow balls...
but I think I’d make that trade.
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
If those...
are anything like the yellow snow, we probably don’t want them anyway.
CubFan81 - November 12, 2008
I'm trying so hard...
…to work a Moises Alou joke in here and I just can’t quite get there.
daver - November 12, 2008
There are a lot of pitchers out there who could use a pitcher-friendly park
MissouriKev - November 12, 2008
Just be sure and tell him....
……that if someone hits it to that big Coca-Cola glove in LF, it’s not an “out”. :)
carmen_fanzone - November 12, 2008
Hank White coming back?
Best news of the week! I’ve got a fever and the only prescription is more Hank White.
cubswynn - November 12, 2008
With Salomon Torres retiring yesterday...
…..who’s the Brewers closer now? Kind of a shocker there.
carmen_fanzone - November 12, 2008
The Brewers could sign Trevor Hoffman...
… that seems a possibility, while they figure out what to do past 2009.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Though I think his ship has sailed
Derrek Turnbow is still in their system. The schadenfreude-ist in me would delight in that.
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
what happened to Gagme?
did I miss something?
drewishdrewid - November 12, 2008
He signed a 1 year deal so he's a free agent.
Type B status, I believe.
cowsarecool220 - November 12, 2008
B for Bad
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
Though for purely selfish reasons...
…I’d love to see Gagne resigned as the Brewer’s closer.
bobby h - November 12, 2008
Has anyone heard any sort of update on Gaudin?
I’ve searched around and find nothing wrt if he is fully recovered from his unfortunate encounter with the dumpster. When that deal first happened I thought we really came out ahead getting both those guys but if he never plays again then maybe it was a wash. I think we will be glad we have Harden in 2009 in any event.
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
Haven't heard anything.
I suspect he’ll be fine for spring training, though.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
As long as he stays away from aggressive dumpsters
Doggie Stalker - November 12, 2008
Gaudin gave an interview on XM earlier this week
after Geo won the ROY. The interview was mostly about Geo and also about Gaudin’s transition from Oakland to Chicago during the season. I don’t recall Gaudin being was asked about his injury.
cowsarecool220 - November 12, 2008
NO HERMIDA PLEASE
I live in FL most of the year and watch a lot of Marlin games….. Hermida has a whole in his swing can’t handle high heat…. inconsistent and not that good when you need him
to step up….. he is a small step up from Corey P. I don’t know what the Marlins would
do with Pie now that they have Maybin from the Cabbrea trade with the Tigers……
We should have grabbed Scott Olsen the Nats …. Stole him………………
nimblenikelfoos - November 12, 2008
To be fair
With the exception of the Harden trade, which there was some buzzing about, all of those trades happened 5+ years ago. I’d argue that now, with blogs and extreme competition between networks to “out-scoop” each other, there’s way more information ahead of time about trades than ever before.
Not to mention that these are completely different teams we’re talking about. Towers is infamously loose-lipped, it shouldn’t be surprising that this is a more public debacle than we’re used to. My take: he’s trying to use the press to leverage the Braves into giving up more players, and the Cubs are just in it as a decoy.
Wreckard - November 12, 2008
I think you have it scoped out right about the Peavy deal.
Your point about more discussion/more info being around now is also true. Nevertheless, the Harden deal still happened pretty darn fast, without days or weeks of back-and-forth.
I’d love to see Hendry make a positive trade for the team that surprises us.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
I’d love to see Hendry make a positive trade for the team that surprises us
+1
(and I betcha he does)
leothelip - November 12, 2008
I should add
I do think the Cubs interest is genuine. I’m just not sure I believe Towers’ is.
Wreckard - November 12, 2008
Yeah -
Hendry is good at being tight-lipped sometimes. And I expect we’re going to see some surprises this off-season.
There are trades, though, about which one team wants a lot of information out on. The Patterson and Sosa trades took forever and there was a lot of articles written on them.
In this case, Towers wants his fans to know that he’s trying to get as much as he can for Peavy. He wants SD fans to see how Peavy’s holding the “brake” on the train. That’s why there was so much info before, but you’ll note there really hasn’t been anything new for the last 5 days. The “new” news has been “The Braves are getting impatient… again.”
DGU - November 12, 2008
Well...
…when the Cubs released the tape of Sammy leaving the park, that let the cat out of the bag on the Sosa trade. IMO, it was done for one main purpose – to get public buy in that their big homerun hitter needed to go.
This situation from San Diego is fairly clear; the owner needs to slash payroll and Peavy WILL be traded somewhere very soon. I still would think the Braves are in the lead, unless this third team can add something the Pads like more.
MPH73 - November 12, 2008
The third team.
There are a ton of ways Hendry can go on the third team, too. As long as the Braves leave Hanson out, Hendry really could go a number of ways on this third team, especially because I believe Mark DeRosa will have a good bit of trade value to teams that may have things the Padres would like.
DGU - November 12, 2008
I agree...
…it all comes down to what teams are willing to give up to make this happen. The third team thing makes it a little more complex, but certainly doable if the right players can be moved.
MPH73 - November 12, 2008
DGU
Would you be willing to trade DeRo to the Twins for a pitching prospect that was acceptable to the Padres if the consequences were:
1. Cubs get Peavy for Pie, Vitters, Cedeño, and (effectively) DeRo.
2. Cubs re-sign Demp and Wood.
3. Cubs cannot afford Hudson or Furcal.
4. Cubs don’t have the chips for Roberts.
5. Cubs can’t afford a top FA OF and settle for Kotsay.
6. Cubs sign Punto and have some combination of Cajuns and Punto in the MI.
7. Marquis’ salary is dumped for a C-level prospect.
Does Peavy make the Cubs better even giving up the other (potential) pieces?
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
A lot to give up...
…and if Hendry did that (with the circumstances you have), it would signal the Cubs have made a decision to go in the direction of relying on pitching, defense and speed. Considering Wrigley plays big more often than it plays small, it may not be a bad direction, but I think you would need to some how upgrade the defense at SS.
MPH73 - November 12, 2008
I guess that scenarios like this are why I'm not in favor of the Peavy trade.
If we re-sign Demp (at market value), we aren’t out any players and we still have one of the better rotations in the NL (Z, Demp, Lilly, Harden, #5). We can still afford to dump Marquis’ salary, if needed, and use Marshall as the #5 with Gaudin as Harden’s bullpen caddy.
If we fail to sign a good FA LHB OF, we would still have our trade chips available. The same would be true for Roberts, though I think he will sign an extension and be unavailable.
Depending on the money, Furcal could still be considered. As important as pitching is, you do have to score some runs to win.
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
I agree...
…if you can resign Dempster and the staff next year can stay relatively healthy, success will depend on a balanced offense and defense.
The other question is this; there is a real possibility Hendry will not be able to address all the needs before the season starts (at least with quality players). In that case, which of the needs could you possibly live without, and possibly address it at the trading deadline?
MPH73 - November 12, 2008
Hermida's off the market, Beinfest said.
So, who do we want to trade for if not Peavy? That’s my question. If I could get a real SS, I’d do that, but I don’t think one is available.
DGU - November 12, 2008
We could try for Khalil Greene in a separate deal.
I still think he is a great “change of scenery” candidate. I’m guessing that the Dads would want a decent pitching prospect (Hart?) and a replacement (Riot or Ronny). I’ve always liked Greene’s glove; his bat is obviously a big question, but escaping Petco would give him a fresh start. If he bombs, the Cubs can just let him walk after 2009. It doesn’t provide a LHB or a leadoff batter.
Also, Kelly Johnson may be available if the Braves don’t trade Escobar — and maybe even if they do. He is a LHB, but doesn’t have power or leadoff ability. He can play OF. The problem is that the Braves are looking for SP, a COF bat (preferably RH), and prospects. We don’t match up very well.
I’m not a big Carl Crawford fan, but he might be available.
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
Yeah - see none of those players
have the impact that Peavy has. I’d rather use the trade chips up on the highest-impact player possible and use the FA market to fill in the other holes.
DGU - November 12, 2008
If I could convince myself
that Peavy would definitely stay healthier than Demp in the next 5 years, I would agree with you. But…
Nagging elbow soreness is often the precursor to TJ surgery. (See Hudson, Tim and Smoltz, John) I’m worried that Peavy is going down that road within two years. He has had previous DL stints due to elbow soreness.
Demp has already traveled that path (and met “conditioning Jesus”), so my feeling is that he is more likely to stay healthy (barring a freak thing like being hit with a line drive) for a 5 year period than Peavy is.
The worst thing that could happen with our trade chips — other than Pie — is that we keep them and fill in our needs during the season as they become more apparent. Pie has to be traded because he is out of options and won’t get a fair chance as long as Lou is the manager.
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
Demp is probably more likely to stay healthy, but
he’s also more likely to be a 4.50 ERA pitcher. I’d rather take the risk of unhealth in the younger arm.
DGU - November 12, 2008
Which is more valuable?
1. A guy who takes the ball 32 times and posts a 4.50 ERA.
or
2. A guy who spends the entire season on the DL.
Depending on how backloaded Demp’s contract would be, he would still have value in the 4th or 5th year to a contending team at the deadline even if the Cubs magically produce a “young guns” rotation that is better than him.
Broken down pitchers are worthless.
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
Although I think it is
unfair to claim that anyone Hendry targeted would “spend the entire season on the DL.”
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
I posted this elsewhere...
I think that Peavy is a walking candidate for TJ surgery based on his past elbow problems and his repertoire. That is why I made the “entire season on the DL” choice. I doubt that it will be in 2009 — more like 2011 — but I think it is inevitable over the 5 year life of his contract.
I just don’t feel the same way about Demp injury-wise. If I knew that Peavy would remain healthy, I would take him over Demp in a heartbeat.
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
Which is more valuable to the Cubs?
1) A guy who takes the ball 32 times and posts a 4.50 ERA.
or
2) A guy who gives you 4 starts in the regular season and 4 starts in the post-season, for a total ERA of 2.50?
With our current roster, I’ll take #2 every time and twice in the post-season.
DGU - November 12, 2008
with one starting pitcher making
only four starts in a 162 game season, how does that help you GET to the playoffs?
drewishdrewid - November 13, 2008
Let's say you have a ballclub that wins 97 games in the regular season
and ZERO games in two post-seasons running.
Would you say this club needs more help getting to the post-season or help winning in the post-season?
We have the pitching depth to get to the post-season; we shouldn’t be scared off by injury risk from high-ceiling pitchers who can win in the post-season.
DGU - November 13, 2008
I don't disagree with that
but I don’t think that any pitcher who only goes four starts in a season is going to bring that much zest to the post.
drewishdrewid - November 13, 2008
I like Crawford
but I don’t know if he can play CF or if the Cubs have the prospects to get him.
Another Tampa possibility would be Rocco Baldelli – given his mitochondrial disease, it’s a gamble, but he could play any OF spot and hit for power if he’s able to stay healthy and play on a daily basis (or 4-5 times a week).
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
Crawford basically refused to play CF in TB.
That is why they tried Upton out there after Baldelli’s problems started. He is really a LF defensively and a CF offensively. I believe that Sori would move to RF if asked, but I’m not sure that Crawford is worth it.
Baldelli is a FA, so it wouldn’t cost any prospects, but I can’t imagine him signing with an NL team. He has said that he had trouble making it through a game in RF during the playoffs after a week off — I can’t imagine him playing 2 days in a row. I sadly think that his career is confined to the DH role unless doctors find a cure for his disease.
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
That's what I think, too, on Baldelli
He’s basically stuck because of his disease, but he’s said to be seeing more specialists this off-season, so if he comes across something that would allow him to limit the effects of the disease, he could be a low-cost, low-risk, high-reward type player.
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
No.
But I don’t think
1) you need to include Vitters in the three-team deal; if you did, Towers wouldn’t have said there were 1-on-1 deals that were workable to him.
3 & 5) that the Cubs won’t be able to afford their other needs just by getting Peavy. In fact, Peavy should be less expensive by $$$ than other top pitchers, including Dempster.
On the other hand, I don’t mind
2) re-signing Demp and Wood if the prices are right
4) not having the chips to sit at the table to waste time not getting Roberts again
6) throwing Punto into a middle IF mix
7) dumping Marquis
DGU - November 12, 2008
In my scenario, the Cubs are paying Peavy, Demp, and Woody.
That’s why I said that they couldn’t afford Hudson or Furcal.
If you trade for Peavy and the Braves sign Demp, then you do have Demp’s money for Furcal.
I think that Towers will want Pie, Vitters and DeRo’s SP prospect minimum. He might convince Hendry to throw in Cedeño (who is arb-eligible and in Lou’s doghouse) to make the Cubs’ deal look better than the Braves’. The Braves are effectively offering 3 A-level prospects (Escobar, Hernandez, and Reyes/Morton).
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
I think that Towers, who has said he wants pitching, pitching, pitching
would take a foreign pitching prospect, plus Marshall, plus Atkins, plus Pie, plus Cedeno.
DGU - November 12, 2008
You might be correct.
That would give him 1 young ML pitcher and 2 pitching prospects. At that rate, he probably wouldn’t demand Vitters. That is an awful lot for the Cubs to give up, though.
From the Cubs’ 2009 perspective, they are giving up Marshall, DeRo, and Cedeño for Peavy. Peavy replaces Marshall and Cedeño is a fairly easily replaced utility guy. The $64,000 question: Will Peavy add more than DeRo will subtract?
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
I'm thinking, in a 3 way deal,
Vitters would go to the mystery 3rd team and pitching prospect(s) from the mystery team along with Cedeno and Pie (or some other combination of prospects) would go to San Diego, Peavy would go to the Cubs.
cowsarecool220 - November 12, 2008
I would advocate signing Punto
he’d be a solid backup infielder at 3 positions, and should DeRosa get traded, could play 2B.
Plus, he’s a ‘piranha’ and anyone who grates on Ozzie is good with me.
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
Punto = Neifi
pass
IowaCubs- - November 12, 2008
Neifi was an excellent backup IF.
He was a lousy everyday player, but that was Dusty’s fault, not Neifi’s.
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
Neifi was a more than serviceable starter early in his career.
Just to set the record straight. Neifi never played for Dusty until he did when both were with the Cubs.
Jimmyeatworld - November 12, 2008
Neifi wasn't an excellent anything during his time with the Cubs.
kanderber - November 12, 2008
Neifi did a fine job filling in at 3rd when needed.
He never had much of a bat.
Jimmyeatworld - November 12, 2008
Neifi Perez sucked.
He is literally one of the worst players to have ever played the game.
kanderber - November 12, 2008
Come on
He had over 5000 AB’s and a .267 lifetime BA. There are many players who did not come close to that. Perez even hit .274 for the Cubs in 572 AB’s in 2005.
Dusty overused him but saying he was one of the worst players to ever play is ridiculous.
rlpete - November 12, 2008
Kid: Mortal Kombat, on Sega Genesis, is the best video game ever.
Billy Madison: I disagree, it’s a very good game, but i think Donkey Kong is the best game ever.
Kid: Donkey Kong sucks.
Billy Madison: You know something? YOU SUCK!
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
Perez
He was good when used properly which is a 4th or 5th infielder.
puckishcubsfan - November 12, 2008
Neifi is perhaps one of the worst Cubs to ever wear a uniform.
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
Come on now,
you need to get off the fence and tell us how you really feel.
Worst ever? Maybe.
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
Haha, I love it.
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
What about Mell Hall?
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
Mel Hall was a decent player.
What was so bad about him?
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Agreed
n/t
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
I guess nothing if child molesting is OK
I think he might be in prison now. I was just trying to think of someone off the top of my head who was bad and he was the first one, like a Rorshak (sp) test.
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
i was just reitterating what so many said
in that post about most hated cubs
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
Perhaps you mean Mel Rojas?
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 12, 2008
I'd vote for that.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Mel Rojas + These Jerseys= FAIL
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
As a backup, Punto would be fine.
If someone did get moved, he could slide in as part of a platoon. I think he’d work out better than Neifi.
Bill Potter - November 12, 2008
Deep goat
Have you talked to deep goat lately?
puckishcubsfan - November 12, 2008
Deep goat?
Who/what is a deep goat?
kanderber - November 12, 2008
Al's source of inside information
Name is a combination of “Deep Throat” of the Watergate scandal and the infamous “1945 Billy Goat getting kicked out of Wrigley” myth.
At least that is what I have always assumed, Al.
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
LOL
He/she/it is referred to as deep goat? Alrighty!
kanderber - November 12, 2008
My source...
… was named Deep Goat by a friend of mine, who is a very occasional poster here. I thought it was perfect. And Weeghman Park is exactly right about the source of the name.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Al, you pegged correct
Smoke screens are part of the whole picture.
But what is clear is LF handed bats, lead off bat and possibly another starter.
Ivy Walls - November 12, 2008
Could this whole Peavy deal be a possible coverup of another deal being made?
Chanman25 - November 12, 2008
Possible.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
It's a conspiracy!
Wreckard - November 12, 2008
Difference being...
that every report has indicated the Cubs interest, and that Peavy is almost a lock to be moved. Seems arrogant to simply dismiss the deal due to a small handful of past Cubs trades. Ultimately, I agree with you that Peavy will end up with the Braves. Yet, given Peavy’s odd quotes about being on a contender, I would almost guarantee him to become a Cub if the Cubs had a few more tradeable parts in the minors. A third team makes things much more difficult.
Kansas25 - November 12, 2008
I love that Geo says
Henry will be back. I want to see Howry in anything but a Cubs uniform.
sue369 - November 12, 2008
Could we send Howry to Japan and get our money back for Dome?
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
I'm willing
to give Dome a second chance.
sue369 - November 12, 2008
Me too
just trying to think outside the box. I think Lou is going to give him every chance to adjust and succeed.
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
Exchanging Peavy for Dempster is bonkers
I don’t get it. If the price of getting Peavy is letting Dempster go I’m at a loss. Who the heck wants a rotation built around guys that can only go 6 innings? Harden and Peavy are 6 inning pitchers at this point in their career, and Zambrano is more often than not a guy in the 6-7 inning range as well. We had one horse last year who consistently went deep in games and his name was Dempster. This move is just ridiculous. We desperately needed brian roberts last year and we desperately need him again this year. That should be the move the Cubs are focused on.
BeltwayCubsFan - November 12, 2008
Reports have said the Cubs might
get Peavy AND Dempster.
The Cubs won’t need Roberts when they get Furcal.
DGU - November 12, 2008
I don't believe that.
I’m thinking it’s Dempster, and none of the rest.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
+1
I think they sign Dempster and add a lesser known player to try and add some athleticism and a LH power bat. Not a real big name, but someone who has the potential to contribute. In other words, someone cheap.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 12, 2008
Yeah, because focusing on that deal has gotten the Cubs so far...
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
how many innings
per game does Brian Roberts pitch?
We have a second-baseman.
drewishdrewid - November 12, 2008
We have several, actually.
daver - November 12, 2008
We could un-retire Doug Dascenzo, right?
IowaCubs- - November 12, 2008
Regarding Roberts
Yes, he doesn’t pitch, thanks for that tip. I personally don’t think, assuming we keep Dempster, we have a desperate need to get another SP. What we do have a desperate need for is a leadoff hitter and a left-handed hitter who can get on base. Dome is clearly neither of those things. Neither is Soriano in my opinion. This team will never win a WS with Soriano batting leadoff. Fact.
BeltwayCubsFan - November 12, 2008
Where would Roberts play?
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
He would play leadoff...
…and obviously 2nd base.
We will know in the next few weeks if he will be on the market, because he may say no thanks to the extension and then the O’s would have to move him – we don’t know.
DeRosa is not my first choice to trade, but if it improves the club why not. I would rather trade either Lee, Ramirez or Soriano (if it meant adding a top flight power LH bat) and keeping DeRosa and moving him to 3rd.
This is why this Peavy thing is intriguing as to how hard Hendry appears to be going after him and needing to trade a bunch of pieces he may need for other parts. Either Hendry is pulling a big bluff with this, or there is something else up his sleeve that is not obvious – either knowing he will have more money than we anticipate, or him knowing one of his core expensive players is going to be moved. If it turns out that Peavy and Dempster are his two big moves, than you are looking at Fukudome being in RF, Johnson/Pie in CF and the club looking to win in the cold weather months with more speed, pitching and defense. At the trade deadline, they could look to add parts to get them over the hump.
MPH73 - November 12, 2008
My feeling is that if the Cubs somehow get Roberts, they have to trade DeRo.
They won’t trade Ramy or DLee; both have NTCs. Lou has steadfastly refused to play DeRo at SS, probably fearful of discovering that DeRo is a better SS than Riot. Moving DeRo to the OF negates the ability to add a LH power bat, so that isn’t likely.
Question: is one year of Roberts worth the difference between the prospects you give up to get him and the prospects you get for DeRo?
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
If it gets your over the hump...
…yes, it is worth it. But, if they make a move for Roberts, I would look at the possibility of him agreeing to an extension before the trade is made.
MPH73 - November 12, 2008
Do you really believe that Angelos would do that
when the Indians, Dodgers, Mets, ChiSox, and Snakes might also be interested?
Do you want to invest in a player who is on the dark side of 30 and whose legs are his main asset? He seems to be healthy right now, but one leg injury to a past-30 base-stealer can often start a precipitous decline in value.
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
Depends what teams...
…are willing to give up to get him. True leadoff hitters are very hard to come by and can be extremely valuable on the right club. Roberts could have another 3-4 good years left in the tank and clubs will value him pretty high.
If he tells the O’s no thanks, he is basically saying I want to be traded, so we’ll see what happens.
MPH73 - November 12, 2008
JMO
I think he signs the extension. Angelos will probably overpay him vs. his value on next year’s economically depressed FA market, and he won’t have to worry about injuries.
If he doesn’t sign… Methinks that Angelos will regard that as a personal affront, and will trade him to the baseball equivalent of purgatory — the M’s, Giants, Royals, etc. — the worst place to play that will take him. That way, he will be miserable for a year, then be a FA.
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
Certainly possible...
…and I wouldn’t put that past Angelos.
MPH73 - November 12, 2008
I know this has been done before
but have you checked Brian Roberts’ 2008 stats against DeRosa’s 2008 stats?
I don’t think Roberts improves this team, and I think losing DeRosa definitely hurts.
drewishdrewid - November 12, 2008
I agree.
The only thing Roberts brings to the table that DeRo doesn’t is baserunning speed. And that’s one of the first things to go… not that I’d expect it this year, but in a couple of years he won’t have it any more.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Different players...
…Roberts adds a LH bat, adds the stolen base as a weapon and probably upgrades your defense a tad, so I think the difference is in what they bring to the table and what the team is lacking the most of.
MPH73 - November 12, 2008
Agreed on the LH bat as well as the speed.
DeRosa gives you some defensive versatility by being able to play several positions.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Peavy seems like a much better pitcher than Dempster.
That’s why the Cubs would be foolish, IMO, to favor keeping Dempster instead of getting Peavy.
BTW, I do not know whether these are official stats or even correct, and my eye sight could be terrible, but according to the 2008 Gamelog on ESPN, Dempster went 6 innings OR LESS in 58% of his starts. Whereas Peavy went 6 innings or less in 48% of his starts.
Peavy was hurt and missed several starts, but Dempster has been injured in his career, too, and he’s a good 3-4 years older.
Not just because of what I have cited above, but for more other reasons I’d take Peavy over Dempster.
DudeVf11 - November 12, 2008
the argument that dempster is better than peavey
(or harden) b/c of how deep they go in games is ridiculous. No pitcher (besides the over-used sabbathia) goes deep into games anymore. Dempster pitched more than 7 innings (in a career year) 5 times last year(and one was 7.1). Peavey? 4 times. over 6 innings: dempster:12, peavey:13. Keep in mind, that’s in a ridiculously good year for dempster, and one of peavey’s worst. Can we please stop the whole “but he’ll tax the bullpen” thing? Last I checked, Bob Gibson ain’t available.
doug dascenzo's change-up - November 13, 2008
Sites like these are more prevalent now than when those early trades were made
I think that plays into all of the hype and speculation regarding potential trades, b/c every team has multiple blogs, with thousands of readers with thousand of opinions and people who claim to have “inside sources”
So people flock to these sites to get in on the action, and pretty soon, reputable news sources partake in the rumor mongoring, so its self perpetuating….but its fun to speculate, so I dont see the harm.
For all we know, the Cubs might have very well had a deal for Roberts last year, but it couldve been nixed at the 11th hour by Angelos
bren - November 12, 2008
It probably was.
Which is another reason to steer clear.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
Jerry Crasnick connects Cubs to Ben Sheets
if the Cubs lose out on Peavy or Dempster “or both”.
If Sheets is in on a 2-year deal, I think I may prefer him to both Peavy and Dempster.
DGU - November 12, 2008
I'd say he "speculates about" rather than "connects."
The mention of the Cubs is all of one sentence. I’m still betting Sheets ends up in Houston.
daver - November 12, 2008
Sure.
DGU - November 12, 2008
I wouldn't want both...
…Sheets and Harden in the same rotation. One iffy health guy is enouph, but two can really drag you down if things don’t go well. We have seen this already with Wood and Prior.
MPH73 - November 12, 2008
I had the same thought.
And I hate to even mention it, but imagine if Z runs into similiar problems next season. It could be ’06 all over again.
daver - November 12, 2008
I'm bullish on Sheets' health going forward.
It took him a bit to readjust to the muscle re-alignment, but I think he may be coming out of the woods. I know, I know – I’m liable to being really, really wrong on this.
And I totally agree in principle. If the Cubs have Marshall, Gaudin, and Samardzija all in their ’pen, though, I can take a rotation with some question marks.
DGU - November 12, 2008
Ugh.
We went through that injury thing with Wood and Prior, and to a lesser extent with Harden. I’m sick of it, frankly.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
I certainly understand that perspective.
We have a lot more pitching depth now than we did during some of the Prior/Wood years. That’s the big difference here (but also something that is at risk with certain variations on a Peavy trade).
DGU - November 12, 2008
It's more than just the injury risk...
… it’s the $67 million we’d be on the hook for.
I remember two years ago when so many BCB’ers were hot after the Cubs to sign Jason Schmidt. I issued the same warnings about his injury history that some are making now about Peavy.
I’m guessing you’re glad Schmidt is a Dodger.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
How much do you think we'll be on the hook for with Dempster?
Dempster will be nearly as expensive, I expect.
DGU - November 12, 2008
I think not, because Dempster is likely to give a hometown discount.
Plus, he costs no players from the farm system, who could be used in other deals.
Al Yellon - November 13, 2008
But Peavy gave a hometown discount to the Padres.
Do you expect Demp to give two or three hometown discounts?
DGU - November 13, 2008
What do you mean "two or three"?
It’s ONE contract.
Al Yellon - November 13, 2008
two or three times the discount
DGU - November 13, 2008
Curt Schilling?
IowaCubs- - November 12, 2008
If the question is
who is an old me first blow hard, that would be the answer.
N Oakley - November 12, 2008
A legend in his own mind.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 12, 2008
pwn
he loves WOW
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
Bravo (brava?), N Oakley
leothelip - November 12, 2008
It would be Bravo.
Sorry, I’m busy painting magic marker on my sock so I look scrappy.
N Oakley - November 12, 2008
One small correction
The Ramirez trade in 2003 was in the rumor mill about a week before it happened. I remember hearing it on being talked about while getting ready to go to Trixiecamp which would have been July 16th,
puckishcubsfan - November 12, 2008
This just in:
Lou Piniella was named manager of the year for the NL. Joe Madddon for the AL.
cowsarecool220 - November 12, 2008
Let me throw a new name into the trade ring: David Murphy
First of all, I’m not sure that he is available, but the Rangers have a glut of OFs.
He is a LHB, and was a 1st round pick by the BoSox in 2003. He was blocked, and didn’t emerge until the Sox traded him to the Rangers.
He has a better than passable CF glove (certainly good enough for Wrigley) and some power (28 2Bs and 15 HRs in 415 ABs). His BB/K rate was not good, but 2008 was his first year of regular playing time. I don’t think he is a leadoff batter, and probably isn’t ready for #5, but might make a good #6 hitter with some room to grow. In limited action, he has held his own against LHP.
The Rangers are always looking for pitching; would they be interested in Sean Marshall?
B-R page
DeRoMyHero - November 12, 2008
David Murphy actually is not a bad idea...
Texas has screaming need for pitching. Maybe we can package Sean Marshall and Jose Ceda??
MDBNIU - November 12, 2008
see you bobby
don’t let the door hit you where the good Lord split you
cubnational - November 12, 2008
Cruel
Howry gave the Cubs 2 very good years before failing last season. I don’t want to see him return but I respect the years he gave the team.
rlpete - November 12, 2008
You respect Howry and Neifi...
Bold strategy…
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
Howry did have some decent runs..
Neifi…uhh…tried hard.
Kansas25 - November 12, 2008
Brian Giles
If Giles comes with Peavy (yeah, it’s unlikely), is it worth adding Vitters?
Seamer - November 12, 2008
Let me say it again now.
Brian Giles will never approve a trade anywhere.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
I bet you a Big Gulp
that Brian Giles will be traded in 2009, whether in the off-season or at the trading deadline.
cowsarecool220 - November 13, 2008
You're on.
Al Yellon - November 13, 2008
pshhh why not Tom Glavine???
Chanman25 - November 12, 2008
Whitey Ford
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
Tom Seaver AND Nolan Ryan
Chanman25 - November 12, 2008
Don Drysdale and Fergie Jenkins.
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
Bob Gibson and Denny McClain
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
Grover Cleaveland Alexander and Cy Young
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 12, 2008
Mike Remlinger and John Rocker
Chanman25 - November 12, 2008
Mordecai Brown and Harry Simmons
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
Syd Finch
N Oakley - November 12, 2008
I love lamp.
Kansas25 - November 12, 2008
Shanghai Badger - November 12, 2008
Nice 'stache.
God it would suck to finally make it to the major leagues and end up playing for a team called “Blue Jays”.
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
I know we are all concerned about durability.
And I have the perfect solution. Sign Will White. There is no denying this workhorse…
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
Jesus Christ!
75 starts and 680 innings?!??! that’s gotta be a record
Chanman25 - November 12, 2008
Dude. 1879- 75 GS, 75 CG.
Baller status.
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 12, 2008
haha that was half a season in those days!
Died relatively young though, in his 60s
Chanman25 - November 12, 2008
Peavy is going to Atlanta, it's just a matter of when
Frank Wren and Kevin Towers are the main dance partners. Jim Hendry doesn’t have a real shot of cutting in. Besides the only reason he is trying to cut in is to make his date Ryan Dempster jealous.
I’m done talking Peavy to the Cubs. It simply is not going to happen. But DGU, don’t stop with the updates on how Atlanta is impatient. That’s good stuff.
MDBNIU - November 12, 2008
Good to hear you're done talking about Peavy.
Now we won’t have to read your same post over and over and over and over…………
cowsarecool220 - November 12, 2008
Please apologize
Please apologize for the mental image I just had of Towers and Wren and Hendry dancing together.
Ewwww
puckishcubsfan - November 12, 2008
The newest report is...
that Atlanta has actually become impatient with bloggers at BCB.
DGU - November 12, 2008
Frank knows talent when he sees it
Weeghman Park - November 12, 2008
When contacted for comment, MDBNIU said, "Amen brother!"
daver - November 13, 2008
When contacted for comment, Jim Hendry said,
I never make any decision without first consulting the experts at BCB. They really have their fingers on the pulse of all that is holy and righteous in MLB. In a way I feel guilty even accepting my salary here because the fine folks at BCB do all the work for me.
Weeghman Park - November 13, 2008
so, that lasted what, about 16 hours?
drewishdrewid - November 13, 2008
But what a glorious 16 hours it was.
daver - November 13, 2008
I remember
children dancing.
drewishdrewid - November 13, 2008
I always thought the Nomar deal was Jim's best
It didn’t ultimately work out, but at the time, it was a killer, killer deal.
Brett Taylor - November 12, 2008
Had the Cubs won in '04 it would have been hailed as one of the best in Cub history.
Al Yellon - November 12, 2008
And hey, if nothing else
It helped us get Rich Harden.
Brett Taylor - November 13, 2008
True.
Al Yellon - November 13, 2008
If I were GM
I wouldn’t trade for Peavy and I wouldn’t resign Dempster. I’d just sign Jacques Jones for the money we would’ve used on Demp, and then see if he can play RF and pitch at the same time.
I see no downside to this plan.
CubsWin!Oregon - November 12, 2008
That sinker is a killer
Shanghai Badger - November 13, 2008
Except that it'd be thrown into the ground 10 feet in front of the plate.
Al Yellon - November 13, 2008
Micah Hoffpauir would swing at that.
why not everyone else?
drewishdrewid - November 13, 2008
He might always get lucky and hit it on the bounce
and hope the umpire didn’t notice
Weeghman Park - November 13, 2008
Maybe he has a future in cricket.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 13, 2008
Why would it matter if the umpires notice or not?
Hitting pitches that bounce in front of the plate is perfectly legal.
DeRoMyHero - November 13, 2008
I thought once they hit the ground the ball was out of play.
Wow, 7 years of college, wasted.
Weeghman Park - November 13, 2008
If a pitch bounces in front of the plate, it cannot be a strike unless the batter swings.
(A pitcher can’t throw a pitch designed to bounce up above a batter’s knees as it crosses the plate.)
However, if a batter swings at a pitch that bounces (in front of, on, beside, or behind the plate) and he makes contact, the ball is in play. If he doesn’t make contact, it’s a strike.
The only guy I ever saw actually do this was Manny Sanguillen.
DeRoMyHero - November 13, 2008
He of the sitting down all the way on your butt catcher
you’re probably right. No one else would be that in tune with 55 foot changeups.
Weeghman Park - November 13, 2008
Sanguillen was, by far, the best bad-ball hitter I've ever seen.
DeRoMyHero - November 13, 2008
closest thing now is the other Manny
Ramirez
Weeghman Park - November 13, 2008
Confirm sarcasm, please.
daver - November 13, 2008
Nope. Serious.
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 13, 2008
Sarcasm confirmed :)
Ha. I assumed it was obvious. There’s no way one could be serious about that…unless we also got Antonia “6-Shooter” Alfonseca in the deal,…
I do have to say that I never really despised Jacque Jones in the way some people did. But I don’t miss him and his fragile disposition (by that I mean his insecurity; not that he was pregnant :))
CubsWin!Oregon - November 13, 2008
This is nothing compared to that Brian Roberts trade rumor
This one has only been going on for two weeks, the Roberts one I believe started in late December and wasn’t declared dead until March. That was an AWFUL long time
Chanman25 - November 13, 2008
Oh, just you wait.
Al Yellon - November 13, 2008
oh boy!
I’m excited!
Chanman25 - November 13, 2008
Actually, the last time I checked, the BRob rumor STILL wasn't dead.
daver - November 13, 2008
this could be the year!
drewishdrewid - November 13, 2008
Some one should put a sign up next to the AC sign
A BR sign – “Before Roberts”
DGU - November 13, 2008
I dunno, people might get frustrated with that offer
especially when the braves come in town
Chanman25 - November 13, 2008
I have a feeling that we will see either Bobby Abreu or Adam Dunn next season
They both can play RF, LHB that Lou wants, and can hit a good number of HRS. I’d prefer neither, but I have a hunch
Chanman25 - November 13, 2008
Another Cub Trade
Well Woody could be moving on as the Cubs aquired Kevin Gregg from the Marlins today. This could be paving the way to a Peavy trade or more likely Marmol or Sarz into the closers role.
Matt
ottawacubbie - November 13, 2008
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