If there were any lingering questions about whether the Cubs had pulled back from pursuing San Diego ace Jake Peavy in a trade, manager Lou Piniella answered them this week.
The Chicago Sun-Times' Gordon Wittenmyer asked Piniella at an event in Chicago on Sunday whether the Cubs were still pursuing starting pitching in the wake of their four-year contract extension with free agent right-hander Ryan Dempster.
"No," Piniella was quoted as saying in Tuesday's Sun-Times. "Starting we don't need. We're set. We've got six good starters, and they're all experienced. Getting Dempster back was the key. We're in good shape with our starting pitching. Bullpen-wise, [we're looking for] possibly one more experienced pitcher. We've got a lot of young kids out there."
So Kevin Towers can posture any way he wants. Peavy's going somewhere else. Here's Wittenmyer's full article. I will resist the urge to say "Told you so."
2 recs | 169 comments
Oh well
There’s always Brian Roberts to talk about.
Mordecai - November 25, 2008
ARGHHHHHHH
you’re looking for an experienced bullpen guy? REALLY!
DartmouthCubsFan - November 25, 2008
Wait!
I know one who’s available. He had 34 saves last year for a playoff team. Can anyone guess who I’m talking about?
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
No idea
No idea maybe his name rhymes with Harry Good?
puckishcubsfan - November 25, 2008
Sounds about right to me.
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
Still have hope
Still have hope that Kerry is still a Cub when all is said and done. I just wish it would end either way and soon.
But I’m guessing it’s not over until after the arbitration offer deadline because if I’m correct if let’s say the Rangers sign him before that the Cubs get the draft picks so teams are hoping the Cubs don’t offer him arbitration on December 1st.
I predict he’s a Ranger or Cub on opening day.
puckishcubsfan - November 25, 2008
Also
Al I asked you in a thread but I don’t think you answered as the thread was dying and you probably didn’t see it.
Is there more than just an educated and thought out guess to the thought PInella has a problem with Wood?
puckishcubsfan - November 25, 2008
I have no information on that.
It does seem to be an educated guess, though.
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
Okay
I trust your instincts but was wondering if this had more legs.
puckishcubsfan - November 25, 2008
Not to my knowledge.
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
i'm befuddled
by this Kerry Wood situation.. why havent the cubs come out and just said we’re going to offer him arbitration and if kerry wants to stay for 1 year he can
this would make everyone happy and challenge wood to his comments that he’d come back on a 1 year deal. Obviously they still can do this and just because they haven’t said it doesn’t mean they won’t do it, but when fans are this irate why not just settle this immediately.
it makes me think for some reason they’re considering NOT offering arbitration to him, which would be insanely stupid.
Heck i’d even offer arbitration to Howry for the shot at a 1st or supplemental rd pick.
DartmouthCubsFan - November 25, 2008
Well...
… the arb deadline isn’t till next Monday, so they don’t have to say anything until then.
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
i know they don't have to
but what’s the benefit of not saying something?
it’s not like them saying they intend to offer arbitration would impact Wood’s negotiations with anyone.
There’s no downside to the club to say their intentions and because they aren’t saying anything i’m becoming suspicious
DartmouthCubsFan - November 25, 2008
Has anyone considered the fact that maybe the Cubs really don't want Kerry
Wood back? All indications are that they could sign him if they really wanted to. Maybe they don’t.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
i think a lot of us think that's the case
just no one knows WHY?
it seems to make absolutely no sense that you’d want to throw him to the curb given the production last year, the likely shorter-term contract, etc
DartmouthCubsFan - November 25, 2008
I'm thinking it's the injury potential. The fact that he was almost out of the
game and gave it one last try says alot. Maybe Cubs management feels that last year was a blessing and that signing him is a risk that they just don’t want to take. If someone is willing to sign him to a multi-year deal, then I think it puts the Cubs in a bad spot. They really may not want to take on the risk and it’s much easier to step aside at this point and let him find a payday elsewhere. I know it’s hard for us Cub fans to accept that, but the fact is, this may just be a matter of not wanting to roll the dice again.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Since the Cubs said "goodbye"...
… no one has offered Wood a multiyear deal.
Maybe there IS injury risk. If so, why not offer Wood a one-year deal with incentives? If he makes his appearances, he gets his money. If not, the Cubs aren’t really out any big dollars.
Wood seemed to signal that he’d do something like this.
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
I agree with you. A one year deal wouldn't be a big risk, but they may
be afraid of what happens if he makes it through the year and produces. Then what do you do? I really think they want to move Marmol into the closer’s role and this is giving them that chance. I believe they are hoping that someone signs him so they don’t have to deal with the options.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Well then...
…. why wouldn’t you extend him? It’s not as if Wood is 40, like Trevor Hoffman. Wood just turned 31. What’s wrong with having a great setup man in Marmol and a great closer in Wood?
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
Maybe they feel that he doesn't want to setup after having such a good year as
a closer. I think he would accept it, but management types can be pretty weasely when it comes to these things. It makes the decision easier if someone takes him off their hands. If they step up and say they don’t want him, then they look like bad guys. As it is, they look like they have his best interst at heart by letting him pursue an offer somewhere else.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Again...
… I think the Cubs are still better off with Marmol setting up Wood than with any other combination they could come up with this offseason.
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
Me too, but if the Cubs feel that Marmol can handle the
closer’s role, it saves some salary. You know that will play into it. All things being equal, Marmol will cost them much less than Kerry.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
But that's not the price issue.
The issue is, how much less is Kevin Gregg than Wood? Because Marmol’s on the team either way.
Once arb is over, Gregg will be making nearly as much as Wood — and not be as good a pitcher.
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
Are you certain they won't include Gregg in a deal for
a LH bat?
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Why can't we just be candid about this?
There is nothing to suggest that this is monetary. Kerry may posture about accepting a one-year deal, and Hendry may say something about his budget, but the contract terms would have likely been somewhere in the middle, and it’s difficult to imagine that everyone couldn’t have worked out an incentive-laden, multi-year deal if Kerry was wanted.
Maybe we just need to accept that he’s not a Lou guy. If I were to hazard a guess, this seems much more about Lou liking to wear out his favorite arms, and feeling that he has to baby Wood.
But whatever the reason, it’s intellectually dishonest for people to keep pretending that after 14 year it’s about the money.
Damen Jackson - November 25, 2008
Why can't it be about money? Do the Cubs
have a money tree that they can pluck a few million off to give to Kerry. I agree that it’s more about not having to deal with the thoght of what to do with Kerry than anything else, but to assume that this cannot be about money is naive. The Cubs are a business and businesses have to deal with the bottom line. You may think that money doesn’t play into this, but I don’t have the benefit of your insight.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Well,
given that Gregg will see something in the neighborhood of 4 milion dollars next season, Lou is still on the lookout for another bullpen arm — likely cost: 1
3 million -and clearly has at least seriously discussed signing Raul Ibanez internally — figurig a 6-10 million per annual deal — I’d say there was money there if Kerry was wanted.But if you think differently, hey…
Damen Jackson - November 25, 2008
As I stated in my original post, they really don't want him. I'm
not sure why, if it’s money or the fact that they don’t want to deal with the injury potential, but their behavior is telling me that they don’t want him. If they did, they would have signed him by now.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Well, actually
my response was more to Al, who was bringing up re-signing him to a one-year deal.
As I’ve stated before though, seeing whether the Cubs actually offer him arbitration will be one of the more interesting happenings of this off-season.
Damen Jackson - November 25, 2008
I would be suprised if they did.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Rec'd
And let me add this – I am very disappointed that the Chicago press is not running this story down. The question of why a team is letting go a player who has stuck with that team for so long and says he’ll do anything isn’t just relevant for Cub fans, it’s relevant as a story about modern baseball, where you rarely see players stick on one team their entire career.
Why in the world wasn’t Lou asked about this in one of his several interviews? And why in the world wasn’t there a Kerry Wood follow up question once Lou says, “We want a veteran arm in the ‘pen and it doesn’t need to be a lefty”?
DGU - November 25, 2008
rec'd
I second your additions.
derv - November 26, 2008
That's the part I didn't get
When Hendry mentioned the Cubs wouldn’t pursue Wood after the Gregg deal, it seemed like all the Cubs would want to do was 1 year and incentives with Wood wanting a multi-year deal. Then what was it, only 2-3 days later, Wood mentioned he’d do anything, including another 1-yr + incentives.
I’d say, go with the 1-year deal and one issue for 2009 is solved. No long term commitment, Gregg effectively fills Howry’s spot, they can now look at a ’pen southpaw and the lineup fixes. Seems like a no-brainer, especially for a guy that really, really, really wants to be here.
blackhawk24 - November 25, 2008
I think the fact that it's sucha no-brainer tells you
that they really don’t want to sign him. If someone signs him and takes him off their hands, the perceived problem is gone.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
right
but i’m not suggesting they sign him to a multi-year deal, i’m suggesting simply that they OFFER ARBITRATION, which would be a 1 year deal
i understood not wanting to commit multi-years to Wood, i even said as much when we said goodbye
but then when Wood came out and said he’d be willing to come back on a 1 year deal, i got frustrated because a 1 year deal for a reliever of his caliber is something we absolutely should be pursuing
DartmouthCubsFan - November 25, 2008
I agree with you.
And I think they WILL offer arb.
And if they do, I am certain he’ll accept it.
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
That seems to make sense given the iffy nature of relievers. I don't know
why they wouldn’t do it.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
I would like to see them
give Kerry a contract that is similar to Wake’s in Boston. A 4 Mil Option that lasts indefinately until either the team or the player decides to nix it..
TheRiot Police - November 25, 2008
I didn't think of that...
Good idea. He’s only 31.
derv - November 26, 2008
Roberts/Peavy
I was thinking that Peavy was going to be this season’s Brian Roberts.
This doesn’t surprise me in the least. I think and I think Al agreed with me when I posted this as did others it was either resign Dempster or trade for Peavy.
puckishcubsfan - November 25, 2008
It's subterfuge!
This only proves that there IS a deal for Peavy and it is imminent! He’s only trying to throw us off the scent.
jerry morales rules - November 25, 2008
You May Be On To Something...
… clearly Hendry has the leverage now over Towers. Before, Towers had ATL and the Cubs in a position to bid against one another. He missed that window of opportunity.
I think that if a deal can be made, Hendry will make it… it will go for less, though, than what was orignially offered.
Priority is now set on a lefty RF, then a veteran ’pen guy, then…
initram - November 25, 2008
I predict
that the cubs will trade for Peavy, flip him to the Orioles for Roberts, and then flip Roberts to the Marlins for Ceda. Everyone on the board owes me dinner at their place when I’m right.
leothelip - November 25, 2008
…and then flip Ceda to the Rangers for Wood, sparing us from all of this ’till next season.
leothelip - November 25, 2008
…and then flip the ’09 season to the Phillies for ’08, scratching, at last, our 100 year old itch and doing so on the anniversary, as planned by all. Kerry gets the save.
leothelip - November 25, 2008
I think we'd all love that.
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
thats a whole lot of flipping going off
Chanman25 - November 25, 2008
anybody else
… really intrigued by Lou’s comments about Fontenot at short? To me, that’s the most interesting thing in Gordo’s story.
Assuming Fontenot is as good as Theriot at short, this could be the lineup against righties, assuming we get a left-handed bat for right field:
Soriano, Fontenot, Lee, Ramirez, Abreu/Ibanez/someone else, Soto, Fukudome, DeRosa
It doesn’t get Sori out of the leadoff spot, but it does create more righty-lefty balance.
elgato - November 25, 2008
Don't You Think...
… that “Abreu/Ibanez/someone else” would go in between Lee and Ramirez?
initram - November 25, 2008
possibly, I guess
Depends who it is. I’d say Abreau would, but I don’t know about Teahen.
elgato - November 25, 2008
Teahen=worse than Dome
jbertram - November 25, 2008
so Fonty takes over at short
and Riot becomes the backup infielder?
I hate to see what Riot will do to pinch-hitting.
drewishdrewid - November 25, 2008
I think what all this means is...
we are going to platoon those two, to get our real leadoff hitter @ 2B Brian Roberts!!!! … and then DeRo plays right, and the middle of the order lefty bat Lou is looking for signs, but to play CF instead of RF!!!…and his name??? JIM EDMONDS.
Then as said above we go ahead and get that reliable pen guy named Harry Good, or something along those lines and we are good to go.
jbertram - November 25, 2008
I would assume it just means Cedeno is gone....
carmen_fanzone - November 25, 2008
I know...
and thank god. I was simply spouting shenanigans above.
jbertram - November 25, 2008
it could mean a Fontenot/Theriot platoon
IMO.
elgato - November 25, 2008
I think it means
to get another left handed bat in the lineup Fontenot gets in and platoons with Theriot. Fotenot didn’t have much range before but I’m all in for trying.
mrcubsfan - November 25, 2008
DeRosa
really isn’t an outfielder. I think it’s a mistake to keep thinking we can just stick him there and have him succeed long-term.
drewishdrewid - November 25, 2008
If you stick him out there full-time, he will succeed defensively.
The real question is not his glove — which is already more than adequate and would get better with regular play — it is whether or not his replacement at 2B (be it LBR or Roberts) can produce the numbers expected of a COF. If they can’t, the Cubs are playing with 3 MI bats which is a real drag on the offense.
The other question is how he will feel about playing a full season in a position he hates.
DeRoMyHero - November 25, 2008
didn't Lou try LBR at short last year?
IIRC, this experiment lasted all of about two innings – or was it just one? Well whatever it was, it was pretty abrupt.
ballhawk - November 25, 2008
he tried him ...
for about three innings in 2007.
elgato - November 25, 2008
that long ago, huh?
guess that’s my brain’s way of telling me to just forget about the 2008 season… not that 07 was much better…
Can’t remember who it was against, but it was one of the few games i went inside for. There goes Fonty, trotting out to short. Wow- check that out, Lou’s trying something different. Cool. Then Boom! Bam! Pow! At least one fielding error and I think somewhat of a botched throw on another play and then if I’m not mistaken, Lou comes out and makes the change in MID-inning!
I had no idea doghouses could be built that fast…
ballhawk - November 25, 2008
I'm still trying to figure out what I think about that.
cwyers - November 25, 2008
I'm all for it ...
as long as Fontenot isn’t a step DOWN from Theriot. That would be unbearable.
You’d probably know this off the top of your head, cwyers. How did Theriot and Fontenot compare range-wise at second?
elgato - November 25, 2008
I think Fontenot is pretty obviously the superior hitter.
Theriot’s defensive range in comparison to Fontenot is probably better – I’m mostly basing this off the way that both the LSU coaches and the Cubs minor league system treated the two of them, though, not any hard data or my own scouting observations.
cwyers - November 25, 2008
hmmmm ...
I wouldn’t be willing to take a downgrade on range at short from Ryan Theriot.
elgato - November 25, 2008
It all depends on how it washes out.
Let’s say – and this is a real rough estimate, now that I have some numbers to look at – that Theriot would be -7 at shortstop defensively, and Fontenot would be -14. That’s runs per 150 games.
Over a full season, is Fontenot’s bat worth seven more runs than Theriot’s?
cwyers - November 25, 2008
I think it is.
For one thing, Fonty can actually hit homeruns with some amount of regularity.
On the other hand, I don’t necessarily equate runs scored with runs allowed, not with our pitching staff…
drewishdrewid - November 25, 2008
I would *think* so
Fontenot’s power would probably tip the scales. But the Cubs would also lose Fontenot as a pinch-hitter a lot of the time.
I guess it also could be a situation where a straight platoon could lead to a competition for playing time.
elgato - November 25, 2008
While you are running numbers,
could you check on the combination of DeRo at SS and LBR at 2B? That would seem more natural than the other way around. If DeRo’s glove were as good as Riot’s, the MI offense would improve significantly.
DeRoMyHero - November 25, 2008
"A lot of young kids" in the bullpen?
Shark——check.
Um, who else?
carmen_fanzone - November 25, 2008
Who knows? I'm just as confused as everyone else.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Well, Lou is 65.
To him, EVERYONE is a “young kid”.
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
He probably call Yosh a young kid.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Cotts, Hart, Wuertz (sort of), Marmol
drewishdrewid - November 25, 2008
Well...
Cotts has 5 years in the bigs, Wuertz is 30 years old, Marmol has 2 full seasons as a set up man, and God help us if Hart is in our bullpen next year.
carmen_fanzone - November 25, 2008
Angel Guzman?
Seriously. I bet he’s in the pen next year.
elgato - November 25, 2008
I'd like that....
..maybe he’s thinking Ascaino and Hart ?
carmen_fanzone - November 25, 2008
my "shudder" key didn't work.
carmen_fanzone - November 25, 2008
why shudder?
Guzman could be a nice addition, if he stays healthy.
elgato - November 25, 2008
Hart.....not Guzman
carmen_fanzone - November 25, 2008
Most of their bullpen actually...
You start with Marmol and Samardzija, and go from there. Ascanio may get a look there, same with Guzman. Marshall may stay in the pen. Kevin Hart may get some time.
I mean, realistically one can easily see the Cubs going with some of the house options for RH relievers next , and only shopping around for an effective veteran lefty or two. You know, like Scott Eyre before he kicked Lou’s dog.
Damen Jackson - November 25, 2008
I can see Guzman......if it's Hart and Ascanio it's only going to be because of injuries...
So you have Cotts, Weurtz, GoDan, Marmol, and Gregg. I’d hardly call that a “young bullpen”.
carmen_fanzone - November 25, 2008
Maybe he meant "young at heart".
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
LOL...
carmen_fanzone - November 25, 2008
Wait...so...
We’re getting Peavy?
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 25, 2008
Yeah, it's in the bag.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Nice.
PurpleLineToWrigley - November 25, 2008
So Lou says were not getting Peavy,
and were supposed to believe him?
dakoose - November 25, 2008
I only listen to
what Kevin Towers says. Everything else is just white noise.
BMoney79 - November 25, 2008
Personally, I feel us BCBers have a much better insight into
this than the people actually making the decisions. We’re remove from the situation so we can look at it without the jaundiced eye of an insider.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Rec'd.
I think it’s pretty obvious we all know what we’re talking about here. GM by committee, I say.
Kansas25 - November 25, 2008
If Hendry were smart, he would just listen to us and
stop screwing around with all of these charts and facts. You know what they say about figures and liars.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
I can see it now.
JH opens BCB account. First FanPost contains poll: Jake Peavy: Yay, Nay, or Meh. Majority rules. Meh winning results in recount.
Kansas25 - November 25, 2008
College of GMs!!
Tate491 - November 25, 2008
Al
The rumors won’t be dead until Jake Peavy is traded to another team, or until spring rolls around and he’s still on the Padres. I hate to break it to ya, but it’s very hard to put any rumor to rest until something ACTUALLY happens.
Furthermore, why do you seem so eager to be done with any sort of postseason rumors when you yourself are adding to the fire with your “Next 100 Years” posts? Part of the reason I enjoy the offseason even though there’s no baseball being played is the constant speculation and the excitement involved with it – like, for instance, the possibility of acquiring Jake Peavy. In a community such as this one, it seems rational that the forum members talk about who might be going where, even if they ARE just rumors. So I don’t really understand why you seem to be so adamant to the idea of BCBers discussing potential trades.
Keith - November 25, 2008
Agreed 100%
Rumors are fun. I don’t get all the complaining about them. They are just that, rumors. You see the source and you make up your own mind on how probable they are. End of story.
Luis - November 25, 2008
It May Be Put To Rest...
…when ST rolls around. But then heats up again in early June!
initram - November 25, 2008
I'm not.
But the Peavy talk comes under this category:
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
Rec'd
DGU - November 25, 2008
The one thing I don't get is
That this big bat comming from the left side is the Cubs primary focus this offseason but the reality of it is that whoever the Cubs get will be hard pressed to compete with the production of Edmonds from last year. So basically the Cubs are going into 09 with the same team minus Wood and with weaker production from the left side as compared to 08.
How are we supposed to be optimistic about that?
Luis - November 25, 2008
Because the Cubs offense was the best offense in the NL last year, broseph.
That’s pretty flippin’ awesome in my mind.
Keith - November 25, 2008
Until the playoffs, that is....
carmen_fanzone - November 25, 2008
the other question ...
is why won’t the Cubs just re-sign Edmonds? My guess is that the Cubs figure they have to do something to change the mix after the playoff sweep, and that Edmonds’ roster spot is the easiest one to change.
Why? The Cubs are essentially locked in at third, first, left and catcher, finding a lefty power bat at second or short is near impossible, and Fukudome’s contract makes thing even more difficult — IF the team is set on tinkering by adding a left-handed slugger who WASN’T on the 2008 Cubs.
The problem with that thinking is it could mean signing Ibanez when Edmonds will do the same thing at a lower price tag. It also doesn’t address Sori at leadoff or Theriot’s defense at short.
elgato - November 25, 2008
I think you are on the right path and
it seems change just for the sake of change. None of the options being discussed seem better than Edmonds. Unless Hendry puts one out of the hat we may be looking at worse lineup “balance” as compared to last year.
Luis - November 25, 2008
I'll hedge a little ...
It’s possible that the Cubs’ people think Edmonds is due for a sharp drop in production, and/or that Ibanez (or Teahen) would bring more to the table. It’s also possible that Edmonds wants more money than we’re assuming. But Edmonds is pretty unique in that he can play center, whereas Ibanez might have a tough time playing right at Wrigley.
Anyway, Edmonds seems like a goner. I just wish I agreed with/knew the reasons why.
elgato - November 25, 2008
Yeah
Between him and Wood it seems all we can do is scratch out heads.
Luis - November 25, 2008
I'm willing to look past not re-signing Kerry
… if they use the money saved there to make a dent elsewhere. As I’ve been saying for days on BCB, Furcal makes so much sense for this team.
elgato - November 25, 2008
I´m not confident
We’ll see a real important acquisition. I have this stiking feeling of a Jones (Jacque) type move… hopefully something like that never happens but I do fear it!
Luis - November 25, 2008
then not re-signing Kerry
assuming he was telling the truth about a 1-year deal, would be a freaking outrage.
elgato - November 25, 2008
Another year older...
and he did finish the year 9-53 at the plate. After his hot streak, he really did tail off. We caught him at a good time, but it is unlikely he can reproduce that magic next year.
Kansas25 - November 25, 2008
that's probably what the Cubs are thinking
And I’d be OK with that if Ibanez wasn’t the most talked about alternative. Replacing a 39-year-old outfielder with a 37-year-old outfielder doesn’t make a ton of sense, but when you figure the 37-year-old is a bad outfielder, it really makes you wonder.
elgato - November 25, 2008
I agree...
Ibanez isn’t the answer. But I also think Edmonds doesn’t have enough left to justify another contract from the Cubs.
Kansas25 - November 25, 2008
I think it depends on what the Cubs do
If the Cubs get a legit LF hitter then I agree. If the Cubs get a “meh” type hitter then I’d probably would have taken a flyer on Edmonds (unless he is looking for more than a 1 year contract).
Luis - November 25, 2008
LF = LH (np)
Luis - November 25, 2008
Buster Olney
keeps mentioning how Abreu would be the perfect fit for the Cubs …
elgato - November 25, 2008
Given what is available, he IS (np)
Luis - November 25, 2008
As long as you ignore his defense, he is EXACTLY what Lou wants.
DGU - November 25, 2008
This whole article is disgusting
More proof that Lou runs the show and not Hendry. Great he does not really need a lead off hitter and remains obsessed with a lefty bat. Oh and I love the line about experience mattering when looking for help in the bullpen Explains continuing use of Howry when he sucked. I almost posted the article earlier but when it said it was from a Sunday talk I assumed it had been covered. If Lou continues to run this team like the good old hard ass, unwilling to adjust and playing favorites it will take a miracle for the team to play up to the level they should. These statements about the team show he tells Hendry what he wants and Hendry tries to get it for him. Lead off man not a priority, not interested in Peavy even if we can get him, well then just get Ibanez and cut Wood
.
Frankly this quote sums it all up for me "I’d be very happy to have Soriano leading off.’’
If Sori leads off after two straight seasons of showing he is a INSANE free swinger who is NOT suited to batting
first, this team is going to the same issues as before with Lou coddling Soriano and not even remembering the names of lesser players.
Doggie Stalker - November 25, 2008
Don't know what you've got till it's gone
Lou is not perfect, but the Cubs could do a LOT worse. Given a few years with a team everybody will complain about any manager, including the best of the best.
Luis - November 25, 2008
other than howry
how has Lou played favorites?
Isn’t the manager SUPPOSED to run the show?
drewishdrewid - November 25, 2008
Soriano being kept at lead off is worse than Howry
and the fact that he is STILL willing to do it is just nuts. Sori feels “comfortable " batting lead off. TOO DAMN BAD he is not a good lead off hitter. I have mentioned far to many times the series in Philly back in April. Up until the those games I sincerely did believe in Lou like anyone else. Then I saw over one weekend how screwed up he and the Cubs were. Al and anyone else who was around me last season will tell you my mantra was the Cubs are succeeding DESPITE Lou not because of him. I don’t want to go through everything but coddling Soriano ( remember when it was suggested he remove Sori in the 9th inning for defensive reasons and he said he could not because Sori was a star and fans expected to see him ) is one of many. Not giving either Cedeno or Pie a chance. I e mailed Al recently an article from the Globe about Theo INSISTING the team stick with Pedroia despite his first two months in the majors which were HORRIFIC. Somehow everyone thinks Lou’s idea of produce this week or else is great, I don’t . Showing some faith and support of struggling players ( besides Howry) is what I would like in a manager.
I remember how Lou could never get Eyre’s name right so Eyre as a joke had a special glove engraved with "Stevie” on it, at first
I thought this was funny but then I read Derek Lowe saying how when he came up as rookie and struggled Lou never once called him by his name only “kid” and he got traded to Boston mid season. 10 years ago Lou’s style of managing maybe worked better but he has in fact had a lot to work with on the Cubs and few crushing injuries and in my mind he has wasted it despite two first place finishes.
I understand the majority of you will never agree but I assure you I did NOT start out this way but I have seen him mishandle and misuse too many players. I also fully understand he will be the Cubs manager. My only hope was for Hendry to take charge on shaping the roster but I do not see that happening at all.
Doggie Stalker - November 25, 2008
Well
You can have the exact same criticism about Lou concerning Hill, and in the end Lou was right and probably gave the Cubs a few more wins by making a decision early, rather than late. As someone else on this site (I forget the name) constantly points out, it was probably not Pie’s numbers but rather how he was looking that made Lou sit him. I remember a few years ago the criticism that it was the way that the Cubs handled Patterson, or maybe even the boos, that made him fail and in the end the reality was that he just wasn’t very good.
Like I said, Lou is not perfect, but go into any team blog and you will find similar criticisms of any manager. Lou is the best the Cubs have had in a long long time.
Luis - November 25, 2008
I wonder what Lou would say if Big Z sidled into his office and said that he feels more comforable
batting cleanup. Now that would make more sense than Soriano batting leadoff.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Batting Soriano leadoff
Is a bad decision, there are not two ways about that. However, it has to be said that Soriano doesn’t fit into any lineup spot. I can already see myself fuming by seeing him hack away recklessly in rbi spots. I can’t believe that there are still 6 more years to go…………………….
Luis - November 25, 2008
Is it possible those are dog years? Or maybe light years? I'm willing
to try for anything.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
LOL, if only we were so lucky (np)
Luis - November 25, 2008
Cedeno has been given a LOT of chances
He played a full season as a starter in 2006 and was incredibly unimpressive. Granted, that was before the Lou era, but the Cubs, as an organization, have given Cedeno a shot. Pie’s another story, IMO.
My point is that I don’t think Lou has made the same kind of mistakes over and over again, though he has made some personnel mistakes. He gave up on Pie and Eyre somewhat unfairly. Meanwhile, he clung to Howry and, IMO, D-Lee. I don’t think Lee should have been hitting third down the stretch last year.
elgato - November 25, 2008
What about Cedeno's 2008?
He had a better bat than Theriot (and better glove) for the first month of the season, but fizzled as he got fewer and fewer starts.
Kansas25 - November 25, 2008
yeah, but which came first
his fizzle, or his limited time?
He had several clutch situations at the plate late in the year, and he didn’t get it done. Don’t get me wrong — I like him, and I thought he needed more chances, but…
drewishdrewid - November 25, 2008
Actually...
his limited time. He was batting 378 (of course with more SLG than Theriot) at the end of April, and yet got only 7 starts in May. Would he have tailed off even with consistent play? I would think so, but he was never given a chance to have a full-time job, and I get tired of people saying Lou plays the hot hand, when he most certainly does not. Theriot was favored.
I think we would have got better production out of the SS role (combination of offense and defense) had his role been switched with Ryan Theriot, but that’s my personal opinion.
Kansas25 - November 25, 2008
You also forget that
Theriot had an OPS above .800 at the time. He had bad luck that he got hot when Theriot was also having his best production. In the end, Theriot or Cedeño, I don’t think either is that much better than the other.
Luis - November 25, 2008
I realize that.
But I don’t recall Theriot being named the SS for the year in March. With similar production, it’s just odd that Theriot got consistent time and Cedeno didn’t. It’s also odd, or more like stupid, that when both played Theriot was SS.
I agree with your last sentence. Theriot brings OBP, while Cedeno brings better D and a little more pop.
Kansas25 - November 25, 2008
I think it came down to Cedeño´s mental lapses
And I think the reason why Cedeño played 2nd with Theriot at ss was a confidence thing more than anything.
Luis - November 25, 2008
I'd have to look at the numbers
for the first month of 2008. But I also remember a LOT of times where Cedeno failed to execute, which is a big no-no with Lou.
elgato - November 25, 2008
Along those lines...
Cedeno was criticized heavily for some of his baserunning and defensive blunders prior to 2008, but he proved to be a smarter, more fundamental player in 2008. I recall failing to execute a bunt once, but that was later in the season.
I’m not trying to argue that Cedeno is our SS of the future, but I do think he was treated differently for some reason, and I still see potential for him to be a solid player at some point in his career.
Kansas25 - November 25, 2008
I think Lou would agree with your last sentence. Just add "somewhere else"
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
For sure.
Kansas25 - November 25, 2008
How many times does Riot have to get thrown out at 3B on a grounder to SS
before Lou will decide that he is a bad baserunner? How many bunts does he have to fail to get down?
Cedeño has had his share of gaffes, but Theriot’s fundamentals haven’t been air-tight either.
DeRoMyHero - November 26, 2008
I do remember DeRosa doing the same thing 2X....
However, I agree with you.
Shanghai Badger - November 26, 2008
Partially in agreement here
Way back in the beginning of Willie Mays’ career, he was hitting just terribly, and yet Durocher stuck with him. can you imagine Lou in those shoes? “Get out of here kid, you’re dtinking up the place. I would rather have a washed up CF”. No one would have ever heard of Willie Mays.
Tekboy - November 25, 2008
And for every Mays
There are how many Pattersons?
Time will tell if Pie was deserving more of a chance, I´m sure. I, at least, agreed with Lou that his approach was not going to be successful no matter how many at-bats he got.
Luis - November 25, 2008
Pie
currently lighting it up in Licey.
Tekboy - November 25, 2008
And if a good-looking swing were a requirement for MLB,
Willie McGee would never have won a batting title.
As Tim McCarver says, “no pictures, just numbers”.
I would like for Lou to give Pie’s “ugly swing” a real chance, but I know it won’t happen.
DeRoMyHero - November 26, 2008
you know how I feel about Soriano leading off
Soriano leads off because Lou wants him to, not because Lou is coddling him. Soriano has said more than once that he’ll hit — and play — wherever Lou wants him too.
Pie never did get a chance, I agree with you there. Cedeno, well, I don’t know. When Ronny was given chances, he just seemed to screw them up. Pie, when he returned, did pretty well.
drewishdrewid - November 25, 2008
I could not agree more
Lou is probably the most overated manager in the game. The way he handled the Fukodome situation was pretty pathetic as well. Then to blame the pressure of not winning in 100 years on the reason the Cubs lost 3 straight in the playoffs and everyone jumping on the bandwagon is ridiculous.
cubdreamer - November 25, 2008
Just curious...
…how would YOU have handled the Fukudome situation last year?
carmen_fanzone - November 25, 2008
Chill out, Doggie... save some of that bark and bite for the convention... ;-)
Question for you: Given the current roster makeup – who would you have Lou bat leadoff, if not Soriano? I’ve been bitching about Soriano batting leadoff almost from Day One but it took me a long while before I figured out, there isn’t anyone better. And that’s a more of a damning statement about Hendry than Lou.
So consider this – maybe Lou is publicly proclaiming his love to keep Soriano in the leadoff spot so as to force Hendry to go get him a legitimate leadoff hitter. It’s painfully clear to everyone involved that Soriano is NOT a leadoff hitter, but no one else on this team is. So maybe Lou is doing what he can in the offseason to get that point across.
Personally, I don’t think Lou needs to be that subtle. He’s perfectly capable of calling Hendry up and telling him “get me a g**d**ned leadoff hitter!”
ballhawk - November 25, 2008
DeRosa, Theriot, Johnson
Would all be better than Soriano. As I have stated before this goes far deeper than say BA or OBP, the fact that your leadoff
guy will often strike out ( or fly out) on 3 or fewer pitches is a disaster that sets up not only the tone of a game but how a team is. When I saw Victorino take over 10 pitches in his first at bat in April and not even get on base, I knew the Phillies were still going to win. If Frank Robinson could tell Soriano you are playing the OF whether you like it or not Lou can tell him he is batting 5th wether he likes it or not ( or 3rd or anywhere other than lead off).
Lou does not need to be that subtle. He wants a lefty bad more than a lead-off hitter and he does not even care it that bat
is a BAD fielder. Not my idea of great managing.
Doggie Stalker - November 26, 2008
marginally better, at best.
Of those three the only one I’d consider would be DeRosa, primarily because that’d be some pretty out-of-the-box thinking to put him there. But I really like his bat further down in the lineup so I’d hate to mess with that. Johnson isn’t going to start enough to warrant taking over the top spot, and Theriot… I have no stats to quote to back me up, but Theriot leading off just fills me with a bunch of meh’s… My hope was that Dome would figure out his swing and become Ichiro Redux. So much for my hope.
But you’re right – there are quite a few players on this team that could lead off, and for short bursts of time they could probably all do better than Soriano. But unless you want Lou to go with the College of Leadoff Hitters approach, face it – overall, we’re going to suck at the leadoff spot. We don’t have a leadoff hitter on this club. So with no overwhelming reason to change, Lou is going to stick with what he has. It sucks but I can’t fault him for that.
ballhawk - November 26, 2008
With all due respect, Doggie......
In my heart, I think old codger is crazy like a fox.
deadcatbounce - November 25, 2008
Does Lou make the final decision?
You never know.
I do like the Ibanez mention though. Would be a good addition.
lamentir - November 25, 2008
Wittmeyer of the SunTimes says today....for what it's worth....
carmen_fanzone - November 25, 2008
i still believe that the Cubs are still going after Peavy.
Lou is sprouting from the mouth.
lexmarklover - November 25, 2008
lolzerkan
i just wanted to show you guys a really cool pic
lexmarklover - November 25, 2008
That Dog passed awhile not long ago...
…had cancer. It was in the news.
TheHawkRules - November 25, 2008
Too bad, there's not enough beauty in this world.
willie mays hayes' gloves - November 25, 2008
Thank goodness that is over.
Sign that Wood guy to fill in the hole in the bullpen.
TheHawkRules - November 25, 2008
+1000, he has some experience
DudeVf11 - November 25, 2008
I don't think we'll get Peavy...
But why do you dismiss some GM/Manager claims as “posturing” but accept this one as fact?
Kansas25 - November 25, 2008
Hey Jim, er.....Dwight....
TheHawkRules - November 25, 2008
Because this doesn't sound much like posturing, does it?
Al Yellon - November 25, 2008
I've learned not to trust...
any comments during the offseason, whether they are denying something OR affirming it.
Kansas25 - November 25, 2008
I want to second Kansas25's comments here.
Last year, the Yankees came out at one point and said, “A-Rod’s moved on. We’ve moved on.” Then A-Rod signed. The Cubs just said, “Bye-bye Kerry.” And now we’re hearing he might be back.
Look at it from this perspective. Kevin Towers just said, “We’re only dealing with the Cubs.” If you were interested in acquiring Peavy but wanted to drive the price down as much as possible, sn’t the appropriate response from the Cubs to say, “We’re set at SP and not looking for anyone else, thank you very much”?
DGU - November 25, 2008
Yep - the Yanks did the same thing with A-rod.
derv - November 26, 2008
Im still holding out hope
where theres a will, hendrys anyway, theres a way…..Peavy would be here a lot longer than Piniella, would he really say no to Jake or is he just sick of the speculation?
bren - November 25, 2008
I wanted Peavy
also. I consider him a better pitcher than Dempster. We all wail on Peavy’s road record, well Dempster won what, 14 games at home last year, and was so-so on the road.
And Lou, the veteran for the pen is already in Chicago. The Wood situation is bewildering. This situation with Wood has Lou all over it.
I also would rather trade for Teehan than sign Ibanez. I rather take a chance with a younger player than a 37 year old, of course Lou would rather have Julio Franco in right, so what do I know.
Grockcubs - November 25, 2008
No time to read all of this thread
…but Hendry’s the GM, not Lou.
That’s all I’m saying. Until A deal is finished, to state “Peavy isn’t coming to Chicago”….anything can happen. What Lou mumbles in a news conference doesn’t mean squat.
….Unless Deep Goat has spoken….
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - November 26, 2008
Have not heard from Deep Goat.
However, if Lou has told Hendry, “I don’t need any more starters”, why would Hendry go out and get one?
Al Yellon - November 27, 2008
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