Open Thread: Cubs vs. White Sox, Saturday 3/22, 3:05 CT

That's a great quote

from KW, even if it's only a clarification of the obvious. Perhaps it took him a lot less time to get fed up with MacPhail and Angelos.

Javy Vasquez has been throwing darts this spring. It'll be interesting to see how the Cubs manage against him.

gary varsho - March 22, 2008 reply

Not so obvious when reading some postings here

You can find posts about how bad Hendry is for not acquiring Bedard, Santana, Greene, Roberts, Crisp and numerous others. Some seem to think that Hendry just has to call these teams and request the players and voila, they are Cubs.

rlpete - March 22, 2008 reply

Too true.

n/t

gary varsho - March 22, 2008 reply

I think you are right....

...it is unreasonable to expect the Cubs (or any team) to go after and acquire what is perceived to be every great player that's available. It is unrealistic to expect that type of approach, maybe even silly.

The truth in the criticism may be that the Cubs do not have the quality and depth in their organization to make even the moves that they think would be solid. Or the Cubs may not place as high a value on certain things as other teams.

The Cubs have been making improvements under Hendry, no question. Even with the lack of position player talent in the farm system, they have offset it with above average pitching depth. I like the Fukudome signing and that he'll apparently hit 2 or 1 and that tells me that someone in this organization is finally addressing their woeful OBP in the 1&2 slots. I think it is a reasonable criticism of Hendry that he's either deferred to his manager or just not been persuaded as to the value of not giving away outs at ridiculous rates at the top of the lineup. I am glad that they are willing to use Fukudome to address this problem area.

The roster dictates at least one additional signifcant move to me. Deals get done all of the time, it isn't as hard or as easy as portrayed to get what you need. The Cubs have pitching depth and perhaps two interesting develpomental position players. The Cubs need more star quality players (who doesn't). It's hard to leap to that next level, you need the budget and you need the minor league depth. I don't know if the Cubs have the stomach for the cash required given the onwership transition and they may not have the roster talent to offer? But the roster situation dictates another major move and if pitching is over valued we should get a decent position player in return. The latter type of deal is what Hendry gets paid to do and it's certainly within his capabilities unless onwership has now dictated salary dump v. go for the flag. Still, I wouldn't mind if we traded pitching depth for overall organization depth, even with 100 years of losing you still need a plan for the future.

Finally, under new onwership I'd love to see a Theo Epstein type run the Cubs. I don't hate Hendry (overall he's doing a decent job), but I'd like to see the Cubs have the best and brightest at the top with a plan that the entire organization implements. I don't have much hope for it as I expect the new owners will be insiders who have no intention of spending on player D and every intention on milking that taxpayer subsidy, extracting as much from the team for 3-5 years and selling it for beaucoup gggggrrrrrrr.....

DudeVf11 - March 22, 2008 reply

Question(s)

Just out of curiosity. Could the Cubs get/afford any player they want right now? Do the Cubs have piles of cash in the bank to pay top 10 player money? Do they have the players available that are quality and expendable to make a trade later in the year?

Keystone80435 - March 22, 2008 reply

I think the Cubs...

... DO have enough money to add a player at the trading deadline. What do you mean by "top 10 player"? What sorts of players like that are even available right now?

Al Yellon - March 22, 2008 reply

No player in particular.

Just wondering if they had available what it would take to sign an A-Rod or Hanley Ramirez...Holliday..Utley..Santana ..Bedard. Not saying they need to, and like you said the market is closed on guys like these for now, just wondering if they could. Or is the bankroll already spent on Soriano, Z and Dome.

Keystone80435 - March 22, 2008 reply

It's probably too soon to answer

A lot will depend on what a lot of the younger players do. If Soto, Pie, Theriot, Hill, Gallagher, Marmol etc. show enough to hold down positions full time then that is a lot of cheap players under Cubs control for quite a few years. If that is the case then yes the Cubs could get another really high priced player. However, if the Cubs are having to hit the market to fill a lot of gaps, it might be a little tougher.

rlpete - March 22, 2008 reply

I guess what I'm asking is could the Cubs pull of a blockbuster deal before the deadline if they needed to fill a void with an All-Star and sign them for a multi year deal. I guess the better question is 'would they' not 'could they'.

Keystone80435 - March 22, 2008 reply

The answer is partially given by Kenny Williams

The Cubs can probably trade for a big name player (they should have the $ for it), but the team trading has to want what the Cubs might offer. In the case of Brian Roberts, the Cubs are helped by the weak demand in the 2B market. But with Erik Bedard, there was larger demand and the Cubs couldn't offer a trade package that matched what Seattle could give. Then, in the case of Santana, the Cubs could have matched what the Mets offered (if MN had liked the Cubs offerings as much), but Santana only wanted to go to the East Coast. So there are a lot of factors that play into these things.

In general, the Cubs have $ room and the Cubs have pieces to trade. The Cubs' farm system has valuable pieces, but no top of the line prospects in it at this time. Things could change by the trading deadline, but if not one of our prospects takes a step up, we may not be able to match offers for any available All-Stars.

DGU - March 22, 2008 reply

Thanks

for the info. I hope if a move needs to be made they make it.

Keystone80435 - March 22, 2008 reply

Hendry has been good, I think,

at getting deals that help at the deadline. That Nomar (plus Murton!) trade was a masterpiece. We got Aramis for a song.

Another factor I forgot to mention was that teams are less inclined to trade All-Stars because of the double draft picks they get if the guy walks. In other words, whatever the Cubs offer for, say C.C. Sabathia, has to be better than what the Indians could get with two draft picks in the first and supplemental round of the draft.

But one situation, I'd be watching is LA's SS situation, where they have Chin-Lung Hu coming up, and he may get the opportunity to establish himself as ML-ready at 3B while Nomar and LaRoche are injured. If Hu hits, Rafael Furcal could be available in-season, and he's a player we know Hendry has eyed before.

DGU - March 22, 2008 reply

good point about LA

But The-Riot has basically the exact same stats as Furcal cept the $13 difference in salary.

Keystone80435 - March 22, 2008 reply

Yeah

if Furcal stays at his 2007 level, then we don't want him, but if last year was affected by his early season injuries, and he can hit like he has before, then I'd take his defense even if Theriot is hitting well. fwiw, PECOTA thinks he'll be back to a .350 OBP.

DGU - March 22, 2008 reply

I think the Cubs have the money

but they don't have much minor league talent that will interest rebuilding teams. The Cubs best prospect is starting at catcher. After that it's Vitters who can't be traded yet. After that it starts getting a bit shaky. Players like Patterson, Cedeno and Veal all have significant issues.

rlpete - March 22, 2008 reply

thanks

Thats part of what I was trying to figure out. Could they deal players without draining the system of all the top talent.

Keystone80435 - March 22, 2008 reply

No-Trade Clauses

The problem is (hopefully it's a good problem, but only time will tell) that when you look at the Cubs big contracts for Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Zambrano, and Fukudome, all of them have no-trade clauses, I think, except Dome. Now I'm not saying that's a bad thing because I see no reason why these guys can't keep producing for several more years. But when you're talking about trades, excluding pitchers, you're basically looking at CF, SS, 2B, and C positions that the Cubs could make a trade for at the Major League level, because the other positions are locked up for at least four more years. That's the gamble of no-trade clauses, and you just hope these guys can stay hungry and keep producing after they got their big payday. Again, I think they will, but it's always a risk.

ctcoff99 - March 22, 2008 reply

10-5 Players

Remember, one of the reasons the Cubs were willing to give no trade clauses to Lee and Ramirez is that they will have 10-5 (10 years in majors, 5 with the same team) and will have automatic no trade protection, per the collective bargaining agreement.

cowsarecool220 - March 22, 2008 reply

Sabathia

Does anyone actually think the Indians would want to trade Sabathia, during a pennant race?

Good point about Furcal. I could definitely see that one happening.

ARAM FOR MVP - March 22, 2008 reply

Oh, let me be clear

I don't think Sabathia is likely to be on the trade market, but you can imagine a scenario where injuries and bad luck land the Indians out of the race and Sabathia is available. I was using CC as an example of a guy I knew was up for free agency.

DGU - March 22, 2008 reply

Lineups

Are up on gameday

Cubs
Fontenot - SS
Soriano - LF
Lee - 1B
Ramirez - 3B
Fukudome - RF
Derosa - 2b
Soto - C
Pie - CF
Lilly - P

White Sox
Ozuna - 2b
Uribe - SS
Konerko - 1B
Dye - RF
Crede - 3B
Quentin - LF
Anderson - CF
Hall - C
Vazquez - P

berselius - March 22, 2008 reply

The only suprise

Is that there are no surprise, despite Lou's wavering on where to bat Dome

berselius - March 22, 2008 reply

I guess

Piniella is going to give his old line-up one more game before he makes the switch.

cubsfan25 - March 22, 2008 reply

Sori

misjudges the ball, and it's a triple. And we're off, folks!

Bleed Cubbie Blue