Did you ever have an experience where you went somewhere, did something, and yet when it was over, you felt like you hadn't been there at all?
That's what last night's 4-3 Cub loss to the Padres feels like this morning, basically because it was raining so hard for most of the game, it seemed as if it were taking place somewhere else than where I was sitting, hardly able to see most of the action under my umbrella in the left field corner. Except for the Typhoon Game in 2003, when it was far windier and colder than it was last night, I don't think I recall ever seeing any game played for that long (well over an hour) when it was raining that hard.
As a result, Khalil Greene's three-run homer and Jody Gerut's RBI double, all the San Diego scoring in one inning off Jason Marquis, was about all the two teams could muster; after the fifth inning there were only four baserunners (Geovany Soto, who singled in the 6th; SD's Edgar Gonzalez, who singled and doubled, and Aramis Ramirez, who walked).
It got so bad that Jeff, Howard and I finally gave up and left after the 7th -- I couldn't see any more, having to hold the umbrella so low, and the only thing of significance that we missed were three shutout innings thrown in relief by Michael Wuertz (finally! Lou doing something sensible to save his bullpen).
Incidentally, if you thought you saw me in the first inning holding up the big blue umbrella, you were correct. I received two text messages and three phone calls right after -- none of which I actually was able to answer, because as I discovered, somehow the ringer on my phone got turned off.
Anyway, here are some photos from last night, and after that I'll have some more things to say about something that's been debated at length here over the last couple of days. Thankfully, the Cardinals also lost last night, so the Cubs remain a game ahead in first place.
LF corner; you can see my blue & white umbrella in the lower portion of the photo
Cubs pitchers have abandoned the bullpen for the dry oasis of the dugout
Right field bleacher fans raise umbrellas
The hard-working ground crew tries to keep the infield dry
Click on photos to open a larger version in a new browser window. All photos by David Sameshima
It does appear, from everything I have heard and confirmed, that the Cubs are indeed going to sign Jim Edmonds, possibly today, and that he may be in uniform at Wrigley Field on Thursday. I simply do not understand this at all. This move is clearly driven by Lou Piniella, who seems to have a fixation: "I have to get another lefthanded power bat." Well, Lou, got news for you: Jim Edmonds isn't a lefthanded power bat any more. He's got a .233 SLG this year -- that's lower than three of the Cubs' starting pitchers (Z, .481; Ted Lilly, .364, Jason Marquis, .313). It's lower than Felix Pie's SLG (.286), the player who Edmonds will likely replace on the roster. Why not just play Pie and see how he can do? As I noted yesterday, Pie hasn't started more than four games in a row this season. How can you possibly get into any sort of rhythm, learn the pitchers, etc. if you're not getting at-bats?
Pie's defense and baserunning are also far superior to Edmonds' at this stage of their respective careers.
I really don't know why I even have to write these things. They should be obvious. I have consistently complimented Lou Piniella in this space, most recently on Sunday when he completely outmanaged Arizona's Bob Melvin. But Lou seems to have a blind spot where Pie is concerned. Do I think Felix Pie is a superstar, or even going to be one? No, I don't. But I think he can be a serviceable platoon center fielder, and if he played against RHP and Reed Johnson against LHP, the Cubs would be just fine.
The signing of Edmonds smacks of moves the Cubs used to make under the Wrigleys, a dying ownership group that tried to grab hold of names they had heard of, trying to squeeze one more drop of blood out of the proverbial turnip. I can't count the number of times in the 1970's that Cub management traded for or signed fading stars, but here are some of the most egregious examples:
1973: bought Rico Carty from Texas on August 13. Carty won the NL batting title three years earlier when he hit .366 with 25 HR and 101 RBI. But by 1973 he was done, couldn't run any more, and was a DH that the Cubs tried to force into the outfield. He hit .214/.276/.257 in 22 games for the Cubs (sound a bit Edmonds-like to you?) and the Cubs then sold him to the A's. Later he was picked up by Cleveland, where he had some decent years as a DH.
1978: traded for Davey Johnson on August 6, five years after his 43-HR season for Atlanta. Johnson did hit .306/.393/.490 in 49 Cub at-bats, but he was done, never playing after that.
1979: bought Ken Henderson on June 28, five years after he had a 95-RBI season for the White Sox. He was only 33, but hit .235/.361/.333 in 81 Cub at-bats. That prompted them to bring him back the following year, where he hit .195/.333/.305 in 82 AB before being released on July 20.
1980: traded Karl Pagel (the 1970's version of David Kelton and Jason Dubois) for Cliff Johnson on June 23. Johnson had some power -- he had hit .270/.347/.520 with 20 HR in only 304 AB for the Yankees and Indians the year before -- but the problem was, he didn't really have a position. He came up as a catcher, but was terrible defensively. He played first base OK, but the Cubs had a first baseman (Bill Buckner). During days when Buckner was hurt (often), they tried Johnson there... and also played him three games in left field, which was an absolute disaster. That whole team was; it lost 98 games. The Cubs sent Johnson to Oakland for a minor league pitcher who never panned out and he had some decent years left as a part-time DH, mostly for Toronto.
1981: the most laughable example, and one I'll never forget. Jack Brickhouse started one broadcast in June by telling us how excited he was that the Cubs had picked up a former star outfielder, and then we learned who it was: Bobby Bonds, purchased from the Rangers, making the Cubs his eighth team in seven years. In his very first game as a Cub on June 4, 1981, he got injured in the field in the bottom of the first inning, breaking his wrist, and was out for two months. He hit .215/.323/.380 in 45 games and retired.
The point is, why go back to the bad old days? Of the five Cub teams mentioned above, none of them had winning records and only three of them (1973, 1978, 1979) even marginally contended. The 2008 Cubs are already the best team in their division and are winning games without making moves. I'm not going to say anything about Jim Edmonds' supposed bad clubhouse presence or the way he allegedly hotdogs every catch he makes or the fact that he used to be a Cardinal (who cares? He isn't any more); those may be factors in whether you acquire a player, but the bottom line is: Jim Edmonds at this stage of his career is a bad baseball player. The Cubs may be looking to catch "lightning in a bottle" as they did in 1998 when they signed Gary Gaetti. But Gaetti had hit .265/.339/.454 for the Cardinals with 11 HR in 306 AB when St. Louis inexplicably released him on August 14, 1998, and the Cubs actually needed a third baseman at the time. Five days later the Cubs signed him and arguably, without him they wouldn't have won the wild card.
That's not the case this year. The Cubs can win without Jim Edmonds. He's not a good fit. Jim Hendry, please. Stay away.
0 recs | 574 comments
You looked at bit like Mary Poppins
Damen Jackson - May 14, 2008
Thanks for the pic.
I was trying to make a screen cap but couldn’t.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
I saw you too Al
wierd thing is, it sounded like Len and Bob referred to you as security guy “Dave”. I caught myself thinking why is the security guy sitting in the bleachers? and then I thought why does he look like Al?
Are you security?
Anyway, it was a very gratuitous shot.
Kinky Reggae - May 14, 2008
The security people wear Cub jackets....
... so I could see why he’d think that, BUT—you’re right, why would a security guy be sitting in the bleachers?
I got the usual fee for my appearance: zero.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
HIGHWAY ROBBERY!
Kinky Reggae - May 14, 2008
reminds me of the old newsgroup days
when someone would post with a subject of “another Al Yellon sighting”
LT - May 14, 2008
LMAO
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
we saw you setting it up on the TV.
It’s not going to rain today, is it?
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
No.
Supposed to clear out by afternoon.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
wewt!
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
There was a closer shot of you in the 4th inning, Al.
Why Soriano was batting. You were wrestling with the umbrella. I guess that’s why they showed you then.
Fraggin Judge - May 14, 2008
hey, we can bring food
into the stadium, right?
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
Al
Where are you hearing information on Edmonds? (Unlikely your giving away your source, but doesn’t hurt to ask) As soon as today? Everything I’m hearing is speculatory. I’m against Edmonds on the Cubs completely. I don’t see this having a good effect in the clubhouse.
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
Agreed.
Don’t need him whining about playing time on our club that otherwise seems to have great chemistry right now
PurpleLineToWrigley - May 14, 2008
I agree with you.
I hope they change their minds today. Or maybe he’ll fail their physical.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Al,
I keep having this horrible visual of Edmonds, in a Cub uni, face turning purple and his body going rigid in the batters box as he shows up the umpire on a random ball or strike call.
Yuck.
N Oakley - May 14, 2008
Ugh.
But yeah, I can visualize that too.
Try thinking of nicer things. Got to get this out of our heads!
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
MY GOODNESS
I couldnt remember why when I was younger he was my least favorite player of all time and thats the reason…...the dropped shoulders and attitude when a tough strike went against him.
PLEASE STAY AWAY PLEASE STAY AWAY
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Will Carrol
behind the Baseball Prospectus subscriber wall also said his sources were telling him that the Cubs would sign Edmonds and that in the worst case situation, Pie would get a month in AAA to “salvage” himself. It was in yesterday’s Under the Knife.
DGU - May 14, 2008
What is he trying to "salvage"?
...he doesnt get to play!
I am not arguing with you here as you have just posted what Carrol wrote, but lets say Pie goes down and hits .350 and Edmonds hangs around .250, someone is going to tell me Lou is going then bench Edmonds and bring Pie back up?
Doesnt add up…Lou just doesnt have any faith in Pie, period.
JB 23 - May 14, 2008
Since when
is a 23 YO outfielder at the “salvaging” stage? If Carroll didn’t hear that directly from his source, that’s some pretty shoddy sports journalism…
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Carroll (misspelt his name first time, sorry)
has it as a direct quote:
“Dave Van Dyck had it first, but sources confirmed to me that the Cubs are working to sign Jim Edmonds. One told me ‘at worst, it’s a bad couple of weeks that buys some time for [Felix] Pie to go to Iowa and salvage himself.’ “
I agree that the quote is disheartening at how some in the organization view Pie.
DGU - May 14, 2008
Wow.
Just….wow. That’s a pretty discouraging statement considering it came from inside the organization. Why would you toss 455 AB at a 25 YO Matt Murton in 2006 and not afford a 23 YO Felix Pie (an much higher-rated prospect) the same chance? And then to completely quit on him and say he’s got to “salvage” himself….that’s reprehensible.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
And what does "a bad couple of weeks" mean?
How many losses does that add up to? Absolutely ridiculous.
daver - May 14, 2008
Exactly.
Why not just say “We’re going to punt the next couple weeks because we’d rather have Reed Johnson and Jim Edmonds in CF and Pie working on his swing in AAA, than taking a chance on the next couple weeks while Pie works on his swing here in the bigs.” Because that’s the gist of this comment.
Jim Hendry can’t be happy such an appallingly callous remark got out.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Hendry is the boss
He needs to tell Lou NO!!!
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Well, we don't know
which side of the Pie divide Hendry is on…
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
I think we do
Weeks ago, there was a “divide” in opinion in the “top rank” of Cub management on F Pie. It’s been clear since Opening Week (copyright MLB) that this really meant Lou vs. Hendry.
JohnM - May 14, 2008
Perhaps
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
I think that's right, and...
... Jim generally trusts Lou (and Lou has been right a lot of the time), so he gives Lou a lot of rope on who he (Lou) wants on the roster.
In this case Lou happens to be wrong, but Hendry’s apparently going to give him his way.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
I do want to add
that I like the mode of Hendry giving his managers what they want, even as frustrating as that was with Neifi and the like under Dusty. I like that general philosophy of how a GM and manager should work.
DGU - May 14, 2008
They should work TOGETHER.
The GM shouldn’t just blindly give in to everything the manager wants. Sometimes the GM has to stand up and say no. Now is one of those times.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Oh, yeah,
I definitely agree with that, too. I see how what I said above would indicate a one-way relationship. You’ve worded it well.
DGU - May 14, 2008
For example...
... I’m certain that Piniella must have gone in to see Hendry after the Barrett/Zambrano fight and told Hendry he wanted Barrett gone. He was right about that, and Hendry accomodated him.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
I don't know if he needed to tell Hendry privately
after he said in a press conference, “Get me someone who can catch the … ball.”
DGU - May 14, 2008
True.
But I’ll bet he gave Hendry a mouthful in private, too.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Oh, to be a fly on that wall...
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Yeah.
Not a lot of gray area in that remark.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Signing Edmonds
Is just lke Lou’s keeping Soriano at leadoff. We used to rag Dusty for his
“veteran” fixation and inability to admit a mistake ( walks clogs the bases) I believe
this move shows they are more similar than we would like. This is really a very good
team but I sincerely believe Lou is messing it up to some degree. The ONLY good thing
re Edmonds is that it is early rather than end of July when Cubs have traditionally done
this crap. I give him 3 weeks at the outside. This move is like Lou ( and I believe it was
Lou) bringing up E-Pat when Sori was down. I think at least he will change his mind
fast when he actually sees Edmonds play but I find it incomprhensable that Lou even
bothered to read a scouting report on him.
Doggie Stalker - May 14, 2008
Let me say this
that once the decision was made to refuse Pie regular playing time, Jim Edmonds becomes one of the best options open to us.
Edmonds got some decent pre-season projections and worked hard in a very rigorous off-season training program.
I’ve been afraid that we would trade valuable resources for Ken Griffey Jr, so to keep our trade resources and have a guy that we can dump without losing anything is good. And unlike options like Coco Crisp, there is still a slim chance that a fully realized Edmonds would outhit a fully realized Felix Pie.
The worst case scenario I see here is that Edmonds pulls a Fontenot – he beats up on some bad pitching for a month, pads his stats and coasts downhill off those stats for the rest of the season. If Edmonds doesn’t hit, his defense in CF is not good enough to play on a championship team.
DGU - May 14, 2008
That IS the worst case scenario
Because they’d stick with him through September/October based on early success.
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
That's the worst case scenario
but there are also good scenarios. Edmonds’ 90th percentile PECOTA has him at .276/.364/.495 and Bill James was even more optimistic with .268/.372/.496 as his full projection. And remember, PECOTA was adjusting down for Petco.
DGU - May 14, 2008
Sure, but those were before the season
I don’t think he’s shown much so far to support those projections.
And that doesn’t even get into the attitude issues or defense.
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Agreed.
Projections for a 38-year-old injured player are just that—numbers on a sheet. They don’t take into account injuries or attitude.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Al,
Maybe your or someone could educate me. With averages starting in 2004 of .301, ‘05 .263, ‘06 .257 and ‘07 of .252 and HR totals of 42, 29, 19, 12 and OBP in matching decline, how do James and PECOTA estimate pre-season that there will be such a uptick?
N Oakley - May 14, 2008
I can't, because stats aren't really my thing.
But it would seem to me that declines of that nature for three straight years would NOT serve to predict an uptick, particularly going to a worse hitters’ park.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
The 90th percentile is by definition "best-case scenario"
And PECOTA’s overall projection was much lower for him, I think in the range of .340/.420 for OBP/SLG, and of course he had a 10th percentile projection that probably looked pretty dismal.
As for how the sausage gets made, you might scan baseball prospectus and see if they have some free articles on that. Some of the things PECOTA can look at are differing rates of flyballs, groundballs, and liners to see if Edmonds was tending to get a little unlucky with where his batted balls landed. It can “see” things us casual fans can’t see as well.
Bill James doesn’t say how he does his thing, but I’m guessing he expected Edmonds’ #s were dragged down by the concussions and that if he was healed, he’d make a revival of sorts.
I would say the jury is not out on Edmonds (though I haven’t watched him and I respect the Padres organization; but then I also respect the Cubs organization, so I lean back and forth). It’s not too late in the season for him to turn it around. But in a few more weeks and I start to reconsider preseason projections.
DGU - May 14, 2008
Concussion
was in June 2006 – playing against the White Sox – and he was diagnosed with post-concussion syndrome about two months later. I’m no MD, but remember reading lots of stuff aout PCS during that time, and the effects don’t generally linger more than a few months. In short, I don’t think that Bill James’ projections for 2008 should have been influenced by Edmond’s recovery from PCS, but I could be wrong…..
ChiTown CardFan - May 14, 2008
OTOH...
... some football players have to retire after concussions.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Enough of the PECOTA and Bill James
and anybody else that crunches numbers, zodiac signs, family trees. Edmonds is Edmonds, no thank you.
Cubs well Lou is putting the screws to Pie
Grockcubs - May 14, 2008
Prove Us Wrong, Jim
I hope Edmonds does for the Cubs what Gaetti did in 1998. However, I’m not expecting that. Well, if Edmonds thrives on criticism, there’s plenty to be found at BCB. Show us you are not a washed up has been outfielder. Good luck, Jim. You’re going to need it.
memphiscub - May 14, 2008
In addition --
Just to add fuel to this—
At this stage of their careers, Pie is far superior defensively to Edmonds. If he (Edmonds) had anything left in the tank, SD would not have released him. They eat $4 million and have had no production from any of their OFs all year.
Andres Torres at Iowa would be a better option if Lou does not want to let Pie play. Torres is a switch hitter, hitting .331 with 21 walks in 130 plate appearances. HIs OBP is .431 and he is slugging .487.
As you said Al, Pie has never been in the lineup for any extended period of time. When you are hitting as well as the Cubs are, every guy in the lineup does not have to hit .280 or better. You can afford to let one guy struggle at the plate if he can help you defensively.
If three or four other guys were struggling, it would be difficult to play Pie more. But now is the time while most others, including Soriano the last couple of days, are hitting well.
I have been a backer of Hendry since day one and if he does bring in Edmonds at Lou’s insistence, I for one will be sorely disappointed.
ceegeewow - May 14, 2008
meh
terrible game, terrible move. Bah.
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
Don't forget we have Peavy and Maddux coming up now...
...ah, how good that Estes match-up looked 24 hours ago!
Dan
dtpollitt - May 14, 2008
Lou's impatience
I see a bit of a common thread in several of Lou’s decisions this year: He has high hopes for this team, but he is wary of the Cubs’ unfair late-season schedule. So, I suspect, he has decided that this team must go to the lead early, to use a horseracing analogy. He is managing in April and May like he is in a late-season pennant race.
The pieces that point to this, to me:
- Pie’s truncated trial in center.
- Rich Hill’s quick exodus to Iowa to fix his mechanics.
- Overuse of best reliever, Marmol, in non-save situations.
- No extra days of rest for Z, and few for Fukudome.
—Jim “I’m done” Edmonds.
We just have to hope that Lou doesn’t wear this team out over a long season.
There is a bright spot here. The Wrigley crowds have, in recent years, needed a Cub to boo, whether it was Corey Patterson or LaTroy Hawkins. I can think of no one in sports I’d rather see get this abuse than Jim Edmonds. Felix Pie may be welcomed back from Iowa like a conquering hero.
If that’s all Edmonds does for this team, and it’s probably all he can do, it will be enough.
mlf - May 14, 2008
I agree with all of your points except...
... the ones about Z and Fukudome. Z’s thrown on a very regular, dependable schedule, and shows no signs of fatigue (and had a fairly low pitch count on Monday).
Fukudome doesn’t need days off. Most of the regulars don’t at this time of year.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Super Z
Zambrano is (knocks wood) indestructable, so I guess it’s a trivial complaint.
Fukudome’s never played a 162-game season, as one of the Tribune stories pointed out. And it’s a new league for him. He could use a little extra rest, I’d say. After all, look at all the time he spends on the basepaths!
mlf - May 14, 2008
Someone can correct me if i am wrong...
But i do believe the Dragons season was about 150 games with playoffs.
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
True.
What’s different here is the travel. Japan’s a small country and almost all the games start at 6 pm. Dome may have to get used to the travel and the different starting times. However, they don’t seem to be bothering him so far.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Wait a sec...
Unfair schedule? I dont agree with this because it is May, you dont know what teams will be like in August/September (unless you were referring to the amount of away games in September – then i would agree).
But to address your points:
- I agree with the Pie thing, he is a drag at the plate, but he could use more of a chance.
- Rich Hill is not who we think he is. He is not very good and he is affraid to challenge hitters. That is what it is, and right now there is no place for a pitcher like that on this roster
- I think the overuse of our pitchers is Larry’s problem. They guy seems to avoild all conversations when it comes to our pitching.
- Fukudome gets his rest when he wants it. and in regards to Z, how would he get extra rest?
No need to Boo Edmonds, if he stinks it was a low risk signing, it may not be a good one, but all he has is upside (dont bash me for this), what i mean is he is at the floor now, he cant go any lower. Unless he is a clubhosue cancer – but he did win a WS.
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
schedule
Lots of September road trips to teams we look at as rivals in the NL: Brewers and Mets, if I recall off the top of my head.
mlf - May 14, 2008
his team won a WS.
And there’s too much consensus that he actually is what people like to accuse Soriano of being—a whiner.
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
He was apart of that team.
My bad.
What does he whine about?
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
apparently everything.
pitches he doesn’t like, visiting clubhouses he doesn’t like, the quality of the beer at the salvation army…
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
Wow.
I don’t think I have ever read you evaluating Hill before. I respect your judgement, about pitching especially, and when you say he is not who we think he is…..wow. I see, like most everyone, him not challenging hitters, but believed it was more a confidence thing. If I’m reading your comments correctly, you see more problems than I would have considered. I’m going to watch more critically than before. This is one of the reasons I love BCB.
The Lip - May 14, 2008
LMAO!
There is a bright spot here. The Wrigley crowds have, in recent years, needed a Cub to boo, whether it was Corey Patterson or LaTroy Hawkins. I can think of no one in sports I’d rather see get this abuse than Jim Edmonds. Felix Pie may be welcomed back from Iowa like a conquering hero.
If that’s all Edmonds does for this team, and it’s probably all he can do, it will be enough.
Well done.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Yep, he'll get booed if he doesn't succeed
Not because he played for the Cardinals. If it happens, it’ll be because of a lack of success - maybe unfair; he still wants to try to play. Because of showboating - that is fair.
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Well, I think he'll get booed...
...because he was a well-known Cardinal and he sucks. Even if the seas part and the sky opens and he hits well, I would guess he’ll get a pretty indifferent reaction for a while. Of course, all of these points I’m making our moot because I am in denial and Jim Edmonds is not, nor ever will be a Cub, and LALALALALALALALALALALA!!!
daver - May 14, 2008
If he starts on Thursday
Plays 3 games and gets 10 hits, he will not get an indifferent reaction . . . he’ll get a standing ‘O’.
Of course, if I become the first man to give birth, I’ll have a multi-billion dollar book and movie deal, too . . . .
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Not too hard to predict
I had a bad feeling going into yesterday nights game. If you look back at the Cubs blowout wins, the next day they have laid the proverbial egg. The only exception being the back to back blowout wins in Pittsburgh in April.
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
That's not uncommon after blowouts.
I didn’t think Marquis pitched that bad, actually. He threw one bad pitch to Greene, otherwise he probably gets out of that inning.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
You have to wonder if last season this game doesnt get past the 5th?
...with the new drainage it allowed the game to continue to be played. The Cubs batters seemed to be really pressing once SD took the lead due to the rain. Estes seemed to have them just a little off balance….and oh that bunt by Theriot!
JB 23 - May 14, 2008
I agree about the drainage
I was at the game last night and my friend and I were talking about how well the new field was handling the weather. We both remarked that, in years past, it was not uncommon to see huge standing puddles of water on the track after far less rain than we had last night.
SuperContext - May 14, 2008
The field may drain well...
... and that’s the exact reason they should have stopped the game for an hour. The infield was a quagmire. If it had been covered they could have played under good conditions when they resumed.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
actually it was a good pitch to Greene, at least from my perspective... ;-)
yep, I managed to catch Greene’s homer last night, about two feet before it would have hit Waveland. Man, I didn’t think I could still bend over that far – and on the run too…
I thought about throwing back a fake ball, but then my inner brenneman kicked in and told me not to. Besides, with all the rain, the ball might have slipped a bit and I could have hit Al…
Still can’t believe that was the only ball that made it out of the park last night. The wind was howwwwllllling out to left and left-center.
ballhawk - May 14, 2008
No way! Congratulations!
Believe it or not, when I saw it go out, I thought to myself, “I wonder if that ballhawk dude caught it.”
daver - May 14, 2008
You have an "inner Brennaman"?
JohnM - May 14, 2008
(shudder)
JohnM - May 14, 2008
yeah, but doctors say they have it under control
but if I stop taking my meds, they warn me it could turn into an inner Morgan… ;-)
ballhawk - May 14, 2008
which brennaman?
I hope not both…
LT - May 14, 2008
show nice officer
where the bad touch was!
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
I agree this is a horrible move...
maybe Lou knows something about Pie that we don’t know? Injury, sudden case of the stoopids…? Maybe he’s not fitting in with the team’s checmistry? I hope it’s something cause this makes no sense to me.
RMRZisMYmanCRUSH - May 14, 2008
Im sorry but
I think aquiring Edmonds may end up being better than you guys think. Let’s just wait and see. I do hate having another former Cardinal on the team, but from a managers position, that point is mute. I do agree that Edmonds is not the quality outfielder we are looking for, but he might make up for that by his hitting. As pointed out in other posts recently, Edmonds typically gets off to a slow start. With the quality hitting that our Cubs have been doing so far, they might just help him get back in to the swing of things, and he might even be able to squeak out those important hits that we need to keep from leaving RISP stranded. Heck, he might even contribute to a few extra wins. And if he fails, Reed Johnson is great to have if Edmonds ends up getting benched.
adam316 - May 14, 2008
Don't care what team he used to play for.
Why is that an issue? Who cares?
All I care about is whether the guy can play. Edmonds is D – O – N – E done!
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
LOL
You may be right, but we should mark your words.
adam316 - May 14, 2008
Yeah, you should.
I have been wrong before and if I am, I’ll admit it.
But I don’t think I’m wrong here.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Agreed...
But remember many posters here last night assumed we were going to light up Estes because he was D-O-N-E as well!! ;)
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
Not just that he was a Redbird
But he was the most obnoxious of Redbirds: Full of lip and showboating. Happy to tell reporters that he considered Wrigley a dump, with the worst facilities in the league.
C’mon, Al. Give hate a chance.
mlf - May 14, 2008
Do you have
a source for that? That would be an interesting read.
adam316 - May 14, 2008
Edmonds called the visiting clubhouse a dump to reporters...
..either in 06 or 07….
Having been in it the vistors clubhouse, I dont blame him, but it shows the class he has.
JB 23 - May 14, 2008
Google coughed up this from '06:
As the St. Louis Cardinals tried to thaw out after their 5-1 loss to the Cubs in Friday’s frigid Wrigley Field season opener, they discovered the hot water in their showers had run out after about five minutes.
That’s the kind of inconvenience that leads to bitter feelings between the two arch-rivals. Center fielder Jim Edmonds seemed to be speaking for all the Cardinals when he likened playing at Wrigley to “a complete Class A experience.”
mlf - May 14, 2008
How ironic
considering his play thus far this season has been a “complete Class A experience.”
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Touche!
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
I bet...
... there are ten left-handed hitting outfielders in Class A right now who can outhit Jim Edmonds.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Ha!
Hell, if we’re going to sign .180 hitting CF’er’s, why not Jacque Jones? And he’s probably a better defensive CF than Edmonds at this point, as well.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
No, thank you. I'd rather sign neither.
Fraggin Judge - May 14, 2008
But the point is...
... Jones is better than Edmonds, and that’s pretty sad.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Jones sucks, Edmunds sucks
If I had to choose it’d be Kenny Lofton!
Itchy - May 14, 2008
Agreed.
My point was if we’re resigned to signing a lefty bat with some pop that can play CF, Jones is a better bet than Edmonds. And that is f-n sad to say.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Can't actually blame him for that
I’d be frustrated, too.
Still don’t like the guy, but that is poor.
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Nice
Well if he signs with the Cubs, I wonder what he would say about that comment now?
adam316 - May 14, 2008
At Least
The clubhouse isn’t pink.
Wad - May 14, 2008
True dat
I think the visitor’s locker room at Camp Randall is
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Kinnick
It is definetely pink there. Go Hawks and Cubs.
Wad - May 14, 2008
Yup!
sue369 - May 14, 2008
Iowa, actually
n/t
MN exile - May 14, 2008
i think you are thinking of...
Matt Morris. He hated Wrigley, he was the one who always jabbed at the Cubs. Edmonds doesnt speak he doesnt talk to his own teammates. My source on this one is Steve Klines and Jason Izzy. When i attended Saint Louis University these two would frequent the college bar. And of course i always had my Cubs hat on so we would always talk baseball.
Anyway – the discussion came up about Edmonds and these two told me that when they are out of town, Edmonds never joined any of his teammates for dinner or a few drinks. He was always by himself. In so many words they called him a loaner.
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
But . . .
Pie is just as likely, if not more so, to hit better than Edmonds has so far. Who cares where the guy played in the past . . . he’s not likely to have anything left. To your point below about Estes—that was ONE game.
They can afford to let Pie play! The outfield defense goes from a strength to a big liability with this move.
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Whoops
Higgy’s point about Estes above
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
i was just kidding!
Sorry for the confusion.
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
eh, my bad
Trying to type and read—thought it was a post from someone supporting the move.
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Yeah, former team doesn't really matter to me either
I guess I should have mentioned that my wife and her family are die hard Cardinal fans, so if Edmonds does end up working out for us, they will probably rub it in my face, and that’s why I hate picking up people that once played for the Cards.
adam316 - May 14, 2008
In the unlikely event that happens
You should rub it in THEIR faces . . .
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
I posted basically the same sentiment
2 weeks ago. When the team is hitting well, you can afford to have Pie in there, there will be less pressur=e on him and he can get his bat going without pressing. Again, how can Lou give up so quickly on a 23 year old. If he gets his swing together, he’s our CF for 10 years!
BigJohnAZ - May 14, 2008
Center Fielder...
Should have gone after Coco Crisp when they had the chance pre-season. He’s hitting over .300 and is a switch hitter.
ronsanto10 - May 14, 2008
Crisp would cost the Cubs something. Edmonds costs them almost nothing.
That’s their reasoning. Crisp is still an option later on.
Fraggin Judge - May 14, 2008
Yes, Edmonds costs them something.
A roster spot that could be filled by almost anyone.
Heck, there are probably five people who post here who could do as well as Edmonds, and have a better attitude about it.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
LOL
Al you really don’t like Edmonds. Im hoping that if he does poorly that we won’t use him. I figure if we get him and he ends up working out, then okay. Im all for giving him a chance, but I will be upset if we use him and he doesn’t produce, and then we continue to use him.
adam316 - May 14, 2008
Why give a guy a chance...
... when there is ample evidence that he can’t play any more?
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Good one, Al.
That’s why I wrote “almost nothing”. There is a cost and it may be too high, but management thinks it isn’t. Time will tell who’s right. I’m afraid you might be.
Fraggin Judge - May 14, 2008
Also, Ellsbury
has a balky groin, so Boston, at least for the moment, has reportedly taken Crisp off the market.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
I disagree
That would have been giving up on Pie before the season. Not sure anyone was ready to do that.
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
When are we gonna get it?
I know many of you have him in your fantasy teams. It will be hard to lose him. But he is gone! And just in time.
Félix Pie cannot hit major league pitchers at the moment. It’s obviously not a matter of lack of playing time. His swing is horrendous and his lack of plate discipline appalling. The only thing the club will miss partly is his defense, but the Cubs can do with Reed Johnson as a 4th OF and CF defensive replacement for Edmonds.
As Lou well said recently: “Some kids develop and learn their skills a little later than others, and you have to be patient with them. But at the same time, we’re not in a rebuilding situation here.” The Cubs aren’t Tampa Bay or the A’s. This is a contending team. Lou gave Pie his due chance and he blew it. The important thing is to win and Pie isn’t helping. I’m not willing to keep waiting until next year, again.
Now, wheteher Edmonds is done or he’s the right answer is another matter. I thought Edmonds was done, but his PECOTA projections are decent. Be that as it may, time will answer that question conclusively.
Fraggin Judge - May 14, 2008
Contending
Tampa Bay and the A’s are.
Wad - May 14, 2008
"Contending, Tampa Bay and the A's are."
What, is Yoda posting here now?
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Not for long. It's early.
Fraggin Judge - May 14, 2008
True
But the Angels are beat up right now, which gives the A’s hope.
And I just hope the Rays (had to erase devil) keep it up. Would be a nice change in the AL East
Wad - May 14, 2008
Here, here!
Fraggin Judge - May 14, 2008
"Not a lack of playing time"
If you call play one game sit two games, pinch hit for one AB, sit 3 games, play 2, sit 2, and so on and so on. Sorry no way to make a living unless your a veteran who has done it before,
Pie is getting screwed, period
Grockcubs - May 14, 2008
I am in 100% agreement
with Al, but Lou is playing guys from the farm. Non pitchers include Soto, Theriot, Fontenot, and a little bit of Cedeno. So I can’t exactly call him Dusty Baker.
I understand Lou’s impatience with Pie, but as Al has pointed out, he hasn’t given the kid a fair try….especially with Johnsons down to .254 now, so I think Pie should be playing ahead of him personally. At least then you have a bat off the bench.
Hopefully Edmonds can give us a little bit of production and Pie can prove himself yet again in Triple A. That’s what I don’ get…he’ll hit .354 down there. We all ready know that!
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
Pie is not being sent down to do the same as before.
He has to relearn to hit. (If that’s possible.) If he doesn’t, he’s probably a AAAA player.
Fraggin Judge - May 14, 2008
Nitpick alert!
Fontenot is from Abltimore’s farm system, not ours. He came over in the Sosa deal. And Theriot was already up when Lou got here. And Lou is as reticent to play Ronny as he is Pie.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Damn
Good catch.
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
This is what i dont understand...
Why does Lou get credit for Theriot, Cedeno? When Dusty was here he played both of these guys, and Soto even came up for September. As much as people dont want to think these guys played for Dusty they did. He brought them up.
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
Well
Baker didn’t play Soto or Theriot as everyday players. However, I guess they’ve had more time to develop so you can’t really fault Baker for not playing them.
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
"Salvage"
Very powerful and descriptive word attached to Felix Pie by the Cub organization. You can throw all the slings and arrows my way you want, but it seems clear the message.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
Again, the organization didn't say that. One person did.
daver - May 14, 2008
congratulations
you get what you want; a washed up OF over a young, speedy and somewhat decent player
Chanman25 - May 14, 2008
You couldn't wait for him to fail.
You’re more interested in vindication of your own tortured hatred of certain Cub players than anything else.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
I need a column
So MY opinions can straighten BlueMike out and not Wittenmeyers
Hammer - May 14, 2008
is there something wrong with Pie, will he not break in the ML
or does Lou just not like him? I really dn not undersage this aquasition
Chanman25 - May 14, 2008
Best case scenario: Pie is a late bloomer. He's not ready yet.
Fraggin Judge - May 14, 2008
No, no, no
There’s plenty of possibility that Pie could bust out starting today if he played 5/7 days a week. He had a hot streak already this year and was benched for 6 days after it began. Pie may indeed be a late bloomer, but we do not have enough information yet to rule out the possibility that he is ready to bloom right now.
DGU - May 14, 2008
Another option...
Jacque Jones is available.
ronsanto10 - May 14, 2008
don't
go theere
Chanman25 - May 14, 2008
No, thanks.
Fraggin Judge - May 14, 2008
Play PIE!
I hate this Edmonds signing. It reduces our OF defense, he’s a Cardinal, he’s old, he’s washed up, etc.
I really think Lou should just play Pie…and not just play him, but bat him 2nd.
I’m sure many of you think that’s a bad idea (and to be fair, Theriot has been doing well in that spot), but Pie played well in that slot last year, he’d see pitches with DLee behind him, have the opportunity to bunt/use his speed to get on if Soriano got on ahead of him….plus, that boost of confidence might help him turn the corner.
Seriously, Lou – play Pie!
Chadnudj - May 14, 2008
You put Pie in the 2 hole....
Forget about DLee having a successful RBI season. Having Soriano and Pie ahead of him is not a good move at all.
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
LSA
Fraggin Judge - May 14, 2008
Nice Umbrella
I was also in the RF bleachers, closer to center top row with a large black umbrella. I gave up in the 6th after the pitching change.
Did anyone else not get a bat in their Soriano bobble head box? 1 of ours had one and 1 did not. A few other people I talked to were missing theirs too. I wonder if that is a sign???
chicagodave - May 14, 2008
ths reminds me of the enrique wilson deal in 05
Chanman25 - May 14, 2008
Or the Rey Ordonez signing the year before.
Well, I guess in a couple of weeks we can all say, “Told ya so.”
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Two words:
Tony Womack
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Didn't Womack
win a couple games for us?
Jayo525 - May 14, 2008
In 2003, yes.
Not in his return in 2006.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Reminded me
of Phil Nevin
JohnM - May 14, 2008
Good comparison.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
At least Nevin
was there to replace an injured player.
JohnM - May 14, 2008
But he still was done
JohnM - May 14, 2008
4 weeks too late
and Dusty didn’t play him . . .
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
That's right
was it Walker getting 1B playing time, so Neifi could play 2B?
JohnM - May 14, 2008
Probably
I try to forget as much of that year as possible
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Yep.
I like to pretend that was a strike year.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Stop reminding me, ill puke
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Pie might as well be injured
for the paucity of AB’s thrown his way…
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
WE should have a good idea
Of what’s he’s going to do by the end of the weekend. We’re playing the Padres and the Pirates….I just hope we don’t get a false sense of hope if he does well against them.
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
Playing against bad teams
is exactly the time to get a struggling young player some confidence….just sayin’
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
I was talking about Edmonds
I agree Pie should be playing. You’re right…this would be the perfect time for Pie to get out of his slump. Evidently, Lou doesn’t see it that way.
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
If we sign Edmonds and he plays like $#&%
Is there any reason we can’t toss him aside like the Pads did?
adam316 - May 14, 2008
Nope.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Thats why
I don’t see what the big deal is. He isn’t costing us much, and apparently is easily disposable…...
adam316 - May 14, 2008
The big deal is
We have a kid who is an excellent CF with speed who could be a great ML player if given the chance…..going back to triple A.
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
And burning his final option year,
which is a serious detriment to any trade value he may have had…
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
DeRosa on ESPN 1000
Says that he’ll welcome Edmonds if it happens but that he thinks Pie has all the talent in the world, and “needs to play” (I’m assuming on a more consistent basis) in order to prove it.
Jayo525 - May 14, 2008
Yeah, I just heard that.
He also said Marquis says Edmonds is a great clubhouse guy. I say consider the source.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Marquis is a great clubhouse guy too
Remember in spring training when he said he didn’t need to prove he’s a starter…..he’s proven his worth right?
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
Exactly my point.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
That is not a display of what...
a good clubhouse guy is. That is a guy talking to the media – has nothing to do with clubhouse guy.
let me ask you this who do you think is a good clubhouse guy on the team right now?
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
Derosa.
Ward.
Lee.
Carlos.
Demp.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Exactly
Guys who don’t bring a negative light to the team…save that crap for yourselves.
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
Dome
Wood
Lieber
Blanco
JohnM - May 14, 2008
But who really knows
(unless you’ve hung out in the clubhouse…...)
JohnM - May 14, 2008
This true,
but, in all fairness, the question was who did we “think” was a good clubhouse guy.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Right on...
FYI – you were dead on with Dempster. The guy is flat out hilarious and is always having fun in the club house.
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
He and Eyre
too. I remember hearing somewhere that they play a lot of pranks together.
gwood - May 14, 2008
That is my point.
We cannot base everything off what the media says – but we do and we cant do that because we really dont know. The media tells you want they want to tell you.
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
Well
If I was playing on a team, and one of my teammates sucked but told the press he deserved to play, I would be pissed.
That said, I would think that guy was a bad clubhouse presence. Unless he bought us beer. With the 7-9 mil he’s getting paid.
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
I don't base jack off what the media says.
I look at the cocky, arrogant demeanor Edmonds has on the field and speculate that that likely carries over into the clubhouse. Now, I’m likely to be wrong about that, but that’s what I’m basing it off of, not any MSM drivel.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
me too.
FYI – i am not saying Edmonds is great for the clubhouse – i assume you understood that.
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
Yeah, I got that.
And given you’re familiarity with onthe field matters, I assumed that was your take, as well.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
You were the BP pitcher in Dusty's last year
can you give an example of someone who we would be surprised to hear is a very good clubhouse guy?
(or bad, but you prob. don’t want to go there.
JohnM - May 14, 2008
Well...
Dempster kept everyone lose and is always joking with everyone. He is refreshing.
Zambrano doesnt sit still – he is always doing something moving around doing whatever.
Lets see Hank White – he is the guy everyone goes to with questions or problems. He is basically an information center, and he needs to be there. He may not produce on the field, but he is the man in that club house. He helps bridge the gap from rookie to veteran kinda thing. I witnessed this with Cedeno. Him and Blanco got along very well and probably still do.
As far as bad – Scott Williamson. He was just a jerk. He didnt talk to anyone, he hated the team and he hated being here. (unfortunately i had a locker next to him)
Other than that everyone is pretty much the same. Lee, Ramirez, Woody – they are just guys enjoying baseball.
HIGGY - May 14, 2008
Interesting
thanks for the insight. You hear about Blanco being a potential manager candidate—sounds realistic. And WIlliamson never did look happy.
JohnM - May 14, 2008
Yeah, very interesting.
I really hope the Cubs find a way to retain Hank White in the organization after he retires as a player.
daver - May 14, 2008
is there such a thing
as a catcher coach? :D
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
No, but...
... many catchers make good pitching coaches. Dave Duncan was a catcher.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
That's a very good point Higgy...
...I had a chance to connect with a former college teamate of mine (Bobby Thigpen) when he was in town pitching for the White Sox. The Sox had Steve Carlton at the end of his career, and the public had the perception that he was a complete jerk because he didn’t talk to the media. Well, Thiggy told me he was a great guy in the clubhouse, who was always trying to help guys out in a variety of ways.
Public perception, and reality can be a bit different at times.
MPH73 - May 14, 2008
C'mon, we all know Yosh is the best clubhouse guy of all time... ;-)
ballhawk - May 14, 2008
Cesar Izturiz
Handjobs after every homerun!
El Borto - May 14, 2008
Ha Exactly!
I was waiting for Waddle to say “Well isn’t it also rumored that Marquis isn’t necessarily….”
Jayo525 - May 14, 2008
Naw. Waddle's firmly
in the pro-Edmonds camp. He’s been reading Edmonds 2004-2006 stats all morning as if they were recent.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
But then, Waddle never did
know what the hell he was talking about
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Lotta shots to the head
for poor Tommy
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
I think my favorite was
During the ‘should we get Fred McGriff” saga. He actually said, on the air, as a response to criticism of McGriff’s fielding – that he had a higher fielding percentage than Omar Vizquel.
Gee, Tom, a 1Bman having a better fielding percentage than a SS? Wow, he MUST be great!
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Fred McGriff can thank Tom Emanski for those skills
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Bend the bill, Fred!
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
maybe it's a brotherhood of the one-too-many-concussions thing
Waddle, Edmonds, Hoge…
ballhawk - May 14, 2008
If Edmonds sucks, he will be gone soon
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
Good, then he'll be gone soon.
Because he will suck.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Unless Lou tries to save face by keeping him around.
But I guess it makes me a “Lou hater” to even suggest such a thing.
daver - May 14, 2008
When has Lou ever played favorites to the deteriment of the club??
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
Well, I'm actually tempted to...
...invoke Alfonso Soriano’s name here. Now that would be ironic, wouldn’t it? I’m referring to leaving Soriano in the outfield right after he came off the DL in defensive situations that he probably shouldn’t have been in.
In any case, I guess Lou hasn’t played favorites in such a manner so far. But that doesn’t mean he might not do so with Edmonds. He (Lou) is sticking his neck out awfully far to acquire a player that just about anyone can see is on his last (injured) legs.
daver - May 14, 2008
You got me
Yes, I admit Piniella’s approach with Soriano has been curious and sometimes maddening. So score one for you.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
Awww, yeah! Somebody get me up top!
daver - May 14, 2008
Mike Fontenot!
cwyers - May 14, 2008
Ah, yes! Good point!
I figured I was forgetting something.
daver - May 14, 2008
A bit player coming off the bench?
Seems to me Fontenot has been solidly effective in pinch hitting chores and getting big hits otherwise. No question he is a liability in the field, but it is hard to quibble with his quality left-handed hitting so far.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
except
Lou could have put Cedeno in at second yesterday instead of Fonty.
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
No argument from me
Fontenot is a bad 2nd baseman and his play in the field should be significantly limited. I like him a great deal as a pinch hitter, but cringe when he replaces Mark DeRosa in the late innings.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
You must separate Edmonds from Pie in the debate
Felix Pie has failed on his own. Jim Edmonds is a minimal risk move in hopes of catching lightning in a bottle for a short-term stretch.
The organization has made current assessment of Felix Pie and what is best for him and the team in CF. Whether Jim Edmonds happened to come along or not, I doubt very seriously that is altering what the Cubs intended to do with Felix Pie at this point.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
I don't think this can be separated
The lack of opportunity for Pie is prompting the Edmonds move.
Individually and collectively, these are short-sighted moves
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
LSA.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Just looked at the stats
Edmonds 0 for his last 20 with one walk
Pie 5 for his last 19 with one walk
And Pie’s is more of a bench role than Edmonds who was getting consistent AB’s.
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
Ahhhh
I was wrong….I was looking at April for Edmonds.
Maddux was right, Edmonds was starting to heat up a little….he was 5 for his last 18 with 3 walks
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
Interesting...
...but whatever move the Cubs make, I highly doubt they will be focusing hard on either guys last 20 AB’s.
MPH73 - May 14, 2008
Well
With Rich Hill, Sean Marshall, and Hoffpair (sp), Murton, and Pie starting down in Triple A, Iowa should go undefeated this year!
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
I'll be there
June 28th to see them play.
sue369 - May 14, 2008
You think Z will bean
Edmonds during BP as a Welcoming Gift?
Jayo525 - May 14, 2008
He got tossed for throwing at Edmonds in 2004, right?
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Yes
Right after a Rolen home run. I believe he hit Edmonds earlier in the game also.
Jayo525 - May 14, 2008
Actually...
Just found this interesting article on the game….http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/05/edmonds-and-zam.html
Jayo525 - May 14, 2008
Yep
Edmonds went deep earlier. ESPN Sunday nite. I hated that game.
The Ryno and I Know - May 14, 2008
Was that really 2004?
Doesn’t seem that long ago, I was thinking 2006.
McRipper - May 14, 2008
If not Edmonds, then who do you guys want?
Serious question. Lets eliminate for a moment the strong emotion on both sides of the tracks for Felix Pie.
Reed Johnson is a nice complementary ballplayer, but everyone would agree that he is not suited for everyday duty. Lou Pinella keeps clamoring for left-handed hitting power. Okay, so now we have framed the need for centerfielder….preferably a shorter-term fix who can play alongside Reed Johnson, hits from the left side and has some pop. Do we want to trade away top prospects to acquire this commodity? I sorta doubt it since what really is needed is a complementary ballplayer given the otherwise impressive strengths of the lineup and bench. Do we want to spend tons of money on the solution? Again, why, especially if we seek a shorter-term fix?
Well, this all leads to the path of Mr. Jim Edmonds. Off hand I can’t think of anybody else who might be available and fits the criteria. If Edmonds doesn’t work out, then you cut him and move onto “Plan B.”
So if not Jim Edmonds, then who else makes people on this blog happy?
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
We don't need anyone.
Platoon Pie and Johnson. Problem solved. Next!
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Precisely.
daver - May 14, 2008
You mean, Jim Hendry's actual plan?
Inconceivable!
mlf - May 14, 2008
I wholeheartedly agree!
daver - May 14, 2008
He didn't fal!?
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Sigh...
Even the estimable Al Yellon can’t get off the Felix Pie ride. I’ll ask you the same question then duck for the answer. Why can’t you respect the evaluative thought process of Lou Piniella, Gerald Perry and others within the organization when it comes to CURRENT assessment of Felix Pie? And why do yo believe that the silver bullet solution is to simply throw consistent at bats his way when the Cub braintrust clearly thinks otherwise? Also, why would you so deliberately create a blackhole in the lineup in this a season when we are trying to very seriously win a World Series?
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
Thanks Blue Mike
Oh I forgot you cant hear me
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Because both you and seemingly LouPa...
...are underestimating Pie’s defensive value, especially in relation to guys like Edmonds who lack defensive value.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
OK
Tell me, what’s been the defensive value difference in 2007 and 2008 for Edmonds vs. Pie? Edmonds may have lost a step or two in the outfield and be infamous for his clown catches, but fact is the guy “was” one of the absolute best defensive outfielders in the business. I have hard time believing the statistics prove he is bad at this point.
I recall everybody saying Reed Johnson would be a trainwreck in CF. While Johnson certainly isn’t a Gold Glove he has more than held his own in CF. So at least on the surface I am not overly concerned with defensive shortcoming of a Johnson / Edmonds combo.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
I was on record as saying Johnson would be average defensively in center field.
And that’s exactly what he’s been so far.
The aging curve for defensive ability at a premium position (essentially SS/CF) is different from the aging curve for hitting. In this case the primary problem is range – according to the RZR stats I compiled Edmonds is still doing a good job of fielding balls once he gets to them, but doesn’t have the range of a younger player. If you won’t believe that a 38-year-old outfielder would have less range than he did a few years ago, I really can’t help you, and that has NOTHING to do with stats.
Do the stats prove that Edmonds is no longer a good defensive center fielder? No; there are sampling issues involved in early May, just like there are for hitting. But we can combine our statistical data with the scouting observations we have – in this case what the San Diego media reported Padres folks were saying, and the indication out of San Diego was that Edmonds has lost a step defensively.
The big risk here is that Edmonds hits, not necessarily up to his glory years but hits some, a bit more than Pie would have, and then trades that value right back in the field by being the inferior defensive player. And then, at the end of the season, we still have no better idea of what to do with Pie and no longer have the ability to send him down to the minors, because his last option was burnt.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
I'm with you on this...
but, like I said, Jim Edmonds “was” an exceptional outfielder for a very long stretch. Though he is older and his skills in the field no doubt have eroded I still have hard time believing he is at a point where he is a liability in center field and that his hitting value will be wiped out by his defensive shortcomings.
The other thing that sorta rubs me the wrong way is this automatic pronouncement that Felix Pie is already in the class of Andruw Jones in his prime. While Pie has looked quality in center field I’m at a point where I would classify him among the elite center fielders in the game. He might get there someday, but right now???
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
Whether he's an "elite" centerfielder is beside the point.
The point is he’s a better defensive centerfielder than either Reed Johnson or Jim Edmonds.
daver - May 14, 2008
No argument
Felix Pie has zero problems defensively. He isn’t in “salvage” mode because of his glove.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
23 YO prospects
are not in “salvage” mode. Corey Patterson is in “salvage” mode; Felix Pie is still a couple years away from that.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
That's right, and...
... in answer to MDBNIU’s somewhat coherent question about why I’m still on the Pie train, it’s because there hasn’t been enough evidence to quit on him at this time, especially with the team still winning.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
A reasonable response to MDBNIU.
S A R C A S M -> It’s a shame no one else has mentioned this to him. <- S A R C A S M
daver - May 14, 2008
What you have a hard time believing isn't the point.
Here’s the TotalZone numbers:
Jim Edmonds:
2007, -3
2006, -3
2005, +12
Felix Pie:
2007, +12
I’m willing to argue defensive metrics, but on the basis of real scouting observations, not simply incredulity. I could wander into a room of MLB scouts right now and say that Felix Pie could win the Gold Glove if he played a full season right now and nobody would even know I was a sabermetrician. It’d be like magic!
Preseason, I’d have put Edmonds at a -6 and Pie at a +12; given what I know now, I’d probably have to revise Edmonds’ numbers down, while Pie’s are probably still the same. I, to steal a phrase, have a hard time belieiving that Edmonds will be over 20 runs better than Pie at the plate for the rest of the season in a platoon role.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
I'd been in favor of signing Reed...
from early in the off-season. And I’m confused by the logic. If Edmonds is an admitted step down defensively, and wields a comparable bat currently to Pie, what’s the point?
What do you think he gives you? And please don’t give me a “Mr. Wu”-like answer.
Damen Jackson - May 14, 2008
Precident
Two years ago, everybody wanted to kick Rich Hill to the curb. A year ago it was Ronny Cedeno. Now it is Felix Pie. Can we guarantee that Pie will start hitting at a major league level? No. Should we continue to give him a chance? Yes.
Ross - May 14, 2008
Over-simplification at its finest
I’d like to know where is it written in the Baseball Manual for Dummies that a manager shall always grant an open-ended sample size of at bats to key prospects. Where also is it written that we are supposed to throw out the judgment and assessment of Lou Piniella, Gerald Perry and the Cub braintrust in deference to this strategy of giving a prospect ample at bats.
By that logic lets get Josh Friggin Kroeger on the next plane to Chicago and insert him in the lineup full-time for the next 3 months.
Crikey.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
Sending down vs. cutting loose
I have no problem with them sending him down. Pie is pressing and if he can tear it up at Iowa, he can come right back after Edmonds completely tanks it. What I don’t want is for the Cubs to cut Pie loose because of an aforementioned small sample size.
Ross - May 14, 2008
I think this is Pie's last option.....
sounds a bit like cutting loose to me. If we want to keep him, next callup he HAS to remain with the Cubs….or he can become a FA….correct me if I am wrong, please….
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
that's the way I used to think it was, but then I read somewhere
that each option is good for the whole season. Meaning if Cubs send him down now and use up his last option, Cubs can still play yo-yo with him as much as they want this season. But next season… yeah, he’s either on the team or he has to be waived.
If there’s an expert in the house, please feel free to correct us both.
ballhawk - May 14, 2008
That's correct.
Options are option YEARS. There is a link titled “ESPN Transactions Primer” on the left side of the main page of this site. It’s all explained there.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Josh Kroeger > Jim Edmonds.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
At least at this point in their careers.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Josh Kroeger is not a centerfielder
If he were, then the argument would be worth pursuing. Interesting that we no longer debate Sam Fuld anymore too.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
Actually,
at the beginning of this Edmonds nonsense, cwyers actually suggested bringing up Fuld might be an equal, if not better, move.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Well
Indications are that Sam Fuld turned back into a pumpkin in the eyes of the organization.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
Surprise, surprise.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Fuld's a good defensive CFer, not great like Pie, but good.
He’s not likely to hit for much at this point, but his ceiling (as low as it is) has to be higher than Edmonds’. And when Fuld makes a catch at the wall at Wrigley you don’t have to worry about how many fractures he has in his geriatric hip afterwards.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
Not to mention...
blurred vision attempting to catch that ball at the wall.
bap - May 14, 2008
Edmunds is not a CF either....
that time passed long ago.
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
I read that Hoff-power
is playing right field now….hell, he would be a better option in CF than Edmunds..
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
No, he wouldn't.
As was posted yesterday, I’d rather see Jason Marquis in CF than Hoffpauir.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
I would agree if only
Pie had about 250 AB’s. It is unfair to judge him on less than 100 AB’s, Hell Sandberg would still be playing in Iowa
Grockcubs - May 14, 2008
Again, remember Robin Ventura?
1990 rookie year, starts the season o for 41! And 25 errors to go along with it. He turned out to be a damn good hitter.
BigJohnAZ - May 14, 2008
You really ARE an idiot, aren't you, MDBNIU...
all this time I thought you were just posing…....Sigh
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
Pie.
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
Cedeno
If Pie really does need time in AAA to correct his swing – and I think that only Lou and his staff can answer this – then I think rather than Edmonds you use this as an excuse to get Cedeno in the lineup. He’s played CF before, and could probably do an ok enough job there to buy Pie a couple weeks in Iowa.
He’s massively more valuable in the lineup than Edmonds, which should more than make up for any defensive liability that he might be out there.
Wreckard - May 14, 2008
you know
that’s not a terrible idea. It would at least get his bat in the lineup.
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
If Cedeno...
...was a lefy, that’s probably exactly what would happen.
MPH73 - May 14, 2008
Exactly
This is all about getting another lefty in the lineup at one of the 1-2-5-6 spots. Earlier Lou wanted a 1-2 lefty, a TOOL; but he’s decided Dome is the TOOL. So, now he wants a MOOSE (Middle Of the Order southpaw Slugger or Edmonds).
DGU - May 14, 2008
are there any non-Edmonds MOOSes out there that can play RF?
If the Cubs give up on Pie, and if Edmonds doesn’t work out (sorry – I have to use “if” because I can’t be 100% certain…), then I wouldn’t at all be surprised if Plan C is about finding a lefty slugger RFer, the assumption being it’s got to be easier to find a RFer than a CFer. Then Lou and Hendry talk to Dome. Lou asks him to play CF for the good of the team, and Hendry assures him it’s only for this season and that he’ll solve the CF issue in the offseason.
Certainly not an ideal solution, but depending on who the new RFer is, it might be good enough to work for this season.
ballhawk - May 14, 2008
Barry!
CLAP! CLAP! CLAP!
Bonds!
CLAP! CLAP! CLAP!
cwyers - May 14, 2008
Putting aside all the Bonds non-intangibles for a moment...
... you don’t really think he could play right field any more, do you?
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
What does defense matter to this team?
It’s our lineup that’s broken and needs fixing.
DGU - May 14, 2008
Until we break the defense.
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
We're about to...
by giving Edmonds the CF job.
santoswoodenlegs - May 14, 2008
How's the lineup broken?
Leading the majors in runs
The Ryno and I Know - May 14, 2008
That was likely a facetious
comment. The sarcasm level in here today is pretty high.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
It doesn't have two lefties in it
that meet Lou’s approval.
DGU - May 14, 2008
It must be...if you trust Lou...
because he’s trying to fix it with Edmonds.
santoswoodenlegs - May 14, 2008
I don't really think Edmonds can play center...
...any better than Bonds can play the corners. I’d probably shift Soriano to right in that sort of alignment (he’s got the better arm). But it’s six-dozen of one and half-dozen of the other defensively in that instance (maybe a bit worse because of having to move Dome to center). And you’d definitely want to be aggressive in using Pie/Johnson/etc. as a late-inning defensive replacement.
And again – the preferable thing to do would be to utilize Pie for his defense, platooning with Johnson. But the Cubs are chosing to make defense – and for that matter, clubhouse chemistry – distant second to offense. And if that’s the case, Bonds has more in the tank than Edmonds.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
And will cost a heck of a lot more...
and will be worse defensively than Edmonds. And is an even bigger jerk than Edmonds. And may get indicted before the season ends. And is just as likely (if not moreso) to injure himself.
I think you’re vastly underestimating Bonds’ decline physically as a defensive player. And you’d have to move multiple players out of position to accommodate him.
I don’t want Edmonds, but I don’t think Bonds is any better an alternative. He’s a better hitter, but he’s worse in every other aspect.
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
He sure couldn't play it any less.
But imagining his bat protecting Ramirez….O M G.
santoswoodenlegs - May 14, 2008
One guy we know will be on the market if he gets healthy
is Chad Tracy. I think KC would also be willing to move one of their lefty OFs, but I don’t think any of them will count as MOOSes. Maybe the Yankees would trade one of Damon or Matsui – that’s rumbled around since before the season began. Somebody above thought Hawpe could be available, but I don’t think so. In my dreams, the Marlins fall out quickly and Jeremy Hermida becomes available.
Otherwise we’re looking at Ken Griffey (panic).
DGU - May 14, 2008
One memorable episode from Edmonds...
Came in ‘04 or ‘05 when he completely bitchslapped Zambrano and the Cubs at Wrigley during an escalating beanball war certainly instigated by Larussa. I’m sure you all remember exactly the moment, after some Cubs were plunked Zambrano targeted one for Edmonds in the ribs and both benches were warned. In Edmonds next AB he hit a towering homer off Z and absolutely did not react at all, just put his head down and jogged the bases while Zambrano screamed insults at him from the mound but could not even get Edmonds to flinch before he made it back to the dugout. That made for one pretty sad highlight package for Cub fans, but you have to admit Edmonds really demonstrated some huevos that day. It would be cool to see him change sides, get his respect from Z, and then hopefully devastate the Cards in a similar manner.
BTW I honestly think everyone clowns on Edmonds because he looks like George Michaels after Wham! and that’s where all the gay accusations come from.
Jerry Mumphrey - May 14, 2008
I kinda sorta remember this...
...but I recall Edmonds watched the home run for a couple moments after it left his bat and hesitated a little while running to first base. Carlos got pissed and told him to run the bases.
daver - May 14, 2008
That's what Sullivan wrote today
But then, Paul gets at least one fact wrong per day
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
That's correct, IIRC
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
One Good Thing...
..to come out of all this. One good month of play, and the “Fan Favorite” label isn’t enough to keep Reed Johnson in the everyday lineup like in years past. Even if the decision is a little bit off, the mindset is right. Win ballgames, don’t just put a team on the field that will keep the ballpark full enough.
I’m in the camp that thinks Edmonds is washed up but look on the bright side- one deep fly ball that Edmonds gets his patented late break on and the Wrigley Wall might just take care of the situation for us.
GSG - May 14, 2008
I'd quibble with the idea that Johnson's had a month of good play.
Maybe two weeks of “good play.”
cwyers - May 14, 2008
A question for those who dislike booing the Cubs....
Understanding that you don’t like to boo the home team, I must ask, is it OK to boo Jim Edmonds?
Ross - May 14, 2008
If he plays poorly, yes.
If some miracle happens and he’s restored to the 2004 version of Edmonds and starts hitting, I’ll cheer him and I’d expect everyone else will too.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
I think he just plays a very shallow CF, hence all the over-the-shoulder grabs.
Jerry Mumphrey - May 14, 2008
The argument
is that he plays shallow so that he can make the over the shoulder catches and make the plays look harder than they should be.
gwood - May 14, 2008
Since its starting to seem inevitable
Lets look at some of the positives Jim Edmonds brings to this Cubs lineup?
-Low cost/low reward player
-Some (Stress some) pop from the bench
-Experience in the league
-Playoff experience
-He’s not Brian Roberts (sorry) I’m reaching.
Any more positives?
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
Yeah...I guess...
-He’s not a convicted sex offender.
-DeRosa now has another member of the Sonny Crockett fan club to talk to
santoswoodenlegs - May 14, 2008
there's a 50-50 chance
he’s nice to his mother.
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
PECOTA projects him to a 25 VORID.
(Value Over Replacement Interior Decorator.)
cwyers - May 14, 2008
haha
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
Might lead to an entertaining moment
when fans toss back one of his homers out sheer force of habit.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
LOL
that would be so funny to watch!!
gwood - May 14, 2008
I'm not sure "low reward" can be considered a positive.
daver - May 14, 2008
My emphasis
was on the low cost… but its hard not to play both sides of that statement
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
Anyone know what time
Edmonds clears waivers today? Is there a standard time or does it adjust per employee?
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
Not sure of an exact time,
but ESPN 1000 just said “as early as this afternoon.” Sorry if that’s maddeningly vague….which it is.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
I think it's a set period of time from when the player was placed on waivers.
We don’t know what time the Padres put Edmonds on waivers, but I believe the reports are that it was later, not earlier, in the day.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
Thanks
n/t
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
Bottom line folks
Pie is getting the royal shaft, no way to look at it.
Only argument that could be made if Pie has started 35 games and would be hitting .220, then OK, but this guy I don’t think has started 3 games in a row all year, am I right?
Bad move if Edmonds comes here. His arrogance is tough to take.
Grockcubs - May 14, 2008
he got
9 at the beginning of the season, didn’t he?
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
I see he had
two periods of 4 starts in a row, one run in April, then in early May.
I don’t know, I just don’t want Edmonds in a Cub uniform.
Grockcubs - May 14, 2008
What are you talking about?
I look at the Royal Shaft all the time…
santoswoodenlegs - May 14, 2008
He's a baaaaaaaad mutha...
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
shut yo mouf!
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
He's a sophiscated man, but no seems to understand him
but his woman….
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Damn right!
daver - May 14, 2008
Even St. Louis Media was sour on Edmonds
I live in the St. Louis media market (southern Illinois). The TV newcasters live for the Deadbirds. None of them seemed disappointed when Edmonds was jettisoned. They knew he’d reached his end. Lou’s a smart baseball guy, so I’ll trust his judgment—but I’m scratching my head over this one.
StampMe - May 14, 2008
Hasn't happened yet
He will fail his physical and have to retire! Mwhahaha!
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
That would stop all this discussion, at the very least.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Then we'd have nothing
to harp on until game time! I don’t think we can handle that.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
I'll bet...
... Jim Edmonds’ name may have been mentioned on this site more in the last two days than anyone who is actually currently on the Cubs.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Just to make sure.
Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds Jim Edmonds
santoswoodenlegs - May 14, 2008
Well, that ought to do it.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
I'd say Pie is a close second.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
LOL - OT
Gotta love Cub fans. This is a GOP site to ask Obama questions he’s been avoiding. Look at the last question on the page.
Pretty funny question
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
I'm not sure whether that's really funny
or really sad…
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
And Obama's a Sox fan...
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
guys Edmonds will save this team
I mean, he is obviously the second coming of Hack Wilson for us
Chanman25 - May 14, 2008
If he signs
I expect him to play like the real Hack Wilson—in his current condition . . ..
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
lol
sue369 - May 14, 2008
ROFLMAO!
DeRoMyHero - May 14, 2008
I find the uproar over Edmonds to be darn near comical at this point.
As Boboby Knight once said-“when rape is inevitable…......” and you know the rest. Folks-i truly dislike Edmonds more than almost any MLB player, BUT…....
1.) He had a severe calf injury in the spring-no wonder people say he’s lost a step.
2.) Towers and Hendry are friends-they’ve talked about the guy at length-i promise.
3.) Maddux and Barrett have undoubtedly been talked to about him. Maddux publicly said he was turning it back around-Towers said publicly they’d have kept him had their record been better.
4.) Pie=Jacoby Ellsbury? No way-not yet. Ellsbury hit .353 in his VERY FIRST 116 AB’s with an OPS of .903. Felix in his first 240 AB’s hit .217 with an OPS of .596.
5.) Pie can hit every day in Iowa-if Edmonds sucks, no biggie. Financial risk is minimal-cut him and bring Felix back-assuming he’s hitting well in AAA.
6.) Jim Leyland on team chemistry-
“All that [stuff] has been media [stuff] for years - great chemistry, great clubhouse. That’s the biggest bunch of [baloney] in the history of sports. Every time somebody wants to talk about great chemistry, [forget] the chemistry in the clubhouse. I’m interested in winning games, period. I don’t know who came up with it, but the worst word ever used now is chemistry. That’s something you take in school. That’s a class you take. If he gets people out, he’ll be fun in the clubhouse. If we win games, I’ll be fun in the clubhouse. If we don’t, I won’t be fun in the clubhouse, either. He’s a wonderful, wonderful person with a great personality. We’ve got a bunch of them.”
Relax folks—this is high potential upside with minimal risk.
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
They just need something to bitch about.
It’s the flavor of the week.
Fukumania - May 14, 2008
I want to agree with you, but
Three quick questions:
2.) Towers and Hendry are friends-they’ve talked about the guy at length-i promise.
Ummm. I hope you’re either privy to conversations the rest of us are not, or can provide a link to this information.
4.) Pie=Jacoby Ellsbury? No way-not yet. Ellsbury hit .353 in his VERY FIRST 116 AB’s with an OPS of .903. Felix in his first 240 AB’s hit .217 with an OPS of .596.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think anyone’s amde that argument here. Strawmen are fun, but bad form. I mentioned Ellsbury’s groin problem as a reason Crisp is not available at the moment, but I don’t recall anyone here saying Pie was Ellsbury.
5.) Pie can hit every day in Iowa-if Edmonds sucks, no biggie. Financial risk is minimal-cut him and bring Felix back-assuming he’s hitting well in AAA.
But you’re ignoring that this move will burn Pie’s last option year, which is a significant part of his trade value. If the Cub aren’t going to play Pie, they should trade him. Sending him down would but a serious dent in any trade value Pie still has.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Shouldn't have been so loose with a word like "promise" Gary...
we both know there is no link to post in regard to Hendry and Towers—-since he hadn’t cleared waivers, I have no idea if they’re even supposed to talk about the player. I’d guess that legally they can….but that the player cannot talk to the Cubs and the Cubs cannot comment publicly about interest in him.
BUT….I am on solid ground in saying that Hendry and Towers are amigos…..Hendry helped KT out with signing both Maddux and Barrett—not sure about Prior. We’ll all have to wait and see…what i fear is an intense onslaught of booing game after game. That will help nothing.
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
I don't like the thought
of the booing, either, though I fear it will happen. I’m pretty sure it’s against the CBA for Hendry to make any public comments or speak directly to the player. I don’t know if the GM’s are allowed to speak about a player on waivers or not. It may have to be mediated by the player’s agent.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Ah, booing rights come with the price of a ticket....
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
So does being a chowder head
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
Mmmm....chowder
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Yes--Pie was compared to Ellsbury....
but it’s possible I saw it on another forum.
I had no idea on burning the last option for Pie—that is a problem.
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
Well,
in that case, that would be a bit silly. They’re different types of prospect altogether.
The option year thing really bugs me. Maybe I’m being obsessive, though.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Not to mention...
Uh, yeah, that’s Reason No. 367 that acquiring Edmonds is a REALLY BAD IDEA.
daver - May 14, 2008
Step is a funny way to spell mile....what language is that?
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
In general...
...I agree with you, and I especially agree with you on the media created “team chemistry” BS.
I don’t know how well Towers and Hendry get along, but I recall some tension between the Cubs and Pads when Towers went public that he had discussions with Prior when he was still Cub’s property. At one point, Bruce Levine even reported the Cubs were contemplating a tampering charge against the Pads after they signed Prior to a one year deal. I don’t know how much of that is true, but I really don’t think Tower’s and Hendry’s relationship has much to do with this potential move. In fact, if the Cubs were pissed at the Pads in regards to Prior, Hendry would like nothing better than to have Edmunds produce for the Cubs while the Pads are paying the tab.
This is really the fact that Lou has told Hendry he needs a lefty bat with some pop, so he can get Fukudome in the 2 hole where I think he was born to be in the lineup.
MPH73 - May 14, 2008
Well, let's see if he actually does that, then.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
More potential upside than Pie??? You ARE being sarcastic, aren't you?
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
Quoting Bobby Knight
is not a way to get Illinoians to listen to you.
Illinoians … is that right? Weird.
californiachicagoan - May 14, 2008
Or anyone
to listen to him.
sue369 - May 14, 2008
Illinoisians
the silent s becomes not silent.
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
This leads to the next question
Gammons stated that we wanted to acquire a power lefthanded bat for the lineup. Was this wanted during the offseason? If so, then why didn’t we try to make a trade in the offseason. I am sure that this didn’t begin immeditaely when the season began. If Lou and Hendry do not like Pie, then they should have traded him in the offseason for some outfielder
Chanman25 - May 14, 2008
How do you know Hendry DIDN'T try?
Just because no trade was made doesn’t mean no attempts were made. For the zillionth time, making baseball trades in real life is a little more difficult than the few mouse clicks it takes in a fantasy league.
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
From what I was gathering
they were looking for a lefty bat to hit 1-2 preseason, thinking Dome was their 4-5 guy. Hence, the Roberts and Crisp rumors. Now they think Dome is a 1-2 guy and want to get a 4-5 guy like Griffey or Edmonds.
DGU - May 14, 2008
This seems right to me...
based on the quotes by Piniella about Fukudome and based on the constant talk about pursuit of Roberts and Kaz Matsui and the occasional mention of Crisp.
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
What about.....
Kenny Lofton???
ronsanto10 - May 14, 2008
Since every other team seems to want him so bad,
we should definitely get in on that bidding war….except it would be against ourselves. The solution to the CF problem is already on the roster: Johnson and Pie in a straight platoon.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
It is an amazing show of plain STUPIDITY
to even consider Edmunds over Pie. Even after 50 years of Cubbie fandom, this might be the most stunning, shocking bit of Cub mismanagement to top a long list of such mismanagement decisions…..Well, at least he has to pass a physical, and I certainly hope he flunks….
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
Well at least we agree that Joe Morgan's an idiot.....
...and that Mancini was not!
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
This is true.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Forget Johnson....
Platoon Pie and Edmonds and send Johnson down to AAA.
ronsanto10 - May 14, 2008
ROFL
Fukumania - May 14, 2008
Ummmm....
Pie and Edmonds are both lefties.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Maybe
Edmonds could bat RH to make it work…I don’t see it being any worse than what I expect his LH performance to be.
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
LMAO
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
I'm pretty sure Edmonds will play CF as well and Johnson.....
.....and now that Johnson has come back to earth, he’ll out hit Pie and Reed. The Blue Jays didn’t seem to think they had a spot for Reed if you recall and we got him in the same manner. Maybe lightning won’t strike twice—-but we’ll see. Edmonds was effected quite a bit last year by the death of Hancock. I believe Josh was on his way to meet him somewhere when he was killed IIRC.
I’d love to be a fly in the wall in the Cub locker room when Edmonds reports for duty—to see the reactions of guys like Z, DLee and Woody would be interesting indeed.
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
Johnson will outhit Reed?
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Wait,
Who’s on first?
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
You know what i meant
Edmonds will out hit Johnson now that he (Johnson) has come back to earth.
Fellas….I will now shut my pie hole on this topic…and if i see a single LSA in a subsequent post..I’m coming over there.
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
L.........S..........OK, OK, I won't.
daver - May 14, 2008
Shhhh.....the stupidity of the Edmunds decision
might move ‘I don’t know’ from third to first…....
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
or the front office . . . .
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
but then
does what stay on second?
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
No, we sign Mark Grace to play second....
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
And Lloyd McClendon to play SS
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Bud Abbott to manage?
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
Alright, just to be different
Al, what’s up with the ivy on the logo? I haven’t been to the ol’ yard in two weeks (going tonight), but from what I’ve seen on TV, there’s a lot more ivy out than that.
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
There is.
I’ll get it changed soon. (I used to be able to do it myself, now I have to send a request in.)
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
I have the radio show where 'Who's on First' was performed,
commercials and all, on MP3….maybe Hendry can just play that for his news conference…
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
That's likely better than any explanation
he’s going to offer…
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
I reckon so....
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
There is one possible benefit to this . . .
The bleacher fans in both corners give up their differences and begin a new chant:
“Centerfield sucks! Centerfield sucks!”
Alright, time to go fight traffic and construction – go Cubs.
Shanghai Badger - May 14, 2008
Rosenbloom has officially jumped the shark.
He seems to think, through some marvelously tortured logic, that Sam Zell is exploring moving the Cubs to Vegas.
He might be the worst sports journalist ever.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Well, comments he makes are "so Cub" to plagerize a saying......
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
Levine says so....
Top of the hour Sportscenter:
Edmonds is now in the mix.
Well, there it is; Edmonds in pinstripes. Good grief.
BMoney79 - May 14, 2008
This reminds me of picking up the human rain delay last year
only we aren’t trading anything away… The move is still a headscratcher to me….
LT - May 14, 2008
Well, at least
we’re not giving up anybody for him (aside from losing Pie). I’d prefer no move, but still think I’d much rather this one than giving away anybody for a Griffey Jr. deal.
BMoney79 - May 14, 2008
Thisisn'thappeningThisisn'thappeningThisisn'thappeningThisisn'thappeningThisisn'thappeningThisisn'thappeningThisisn'thappening
daver - May 14, 2008
So, this isn't a joke?
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
Smile!
You’re on Candid Camera!
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
and now i'm giggling.
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
I was really hoping it was.
TheNotoriousJJ - May 14, 2008
Speaking of old comedy routines
you might get a kick out of reading this article about two old friends:
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080512&content_id=2687372&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin
(Sorry if it’s been posted somewhere else and I didn’t see it.)
DGU - May 14, 2008
Ye gods.
Two people who will never, ever get it.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Does sound familiar, doesn't it?
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
Jake Peavy
Arsenal
91-95 Four Seam Fastball
83-89 3/7 Slider
81-83 1/6 Curveball
87-89 Two Seam Fastball
We are going to need to make him work. He spends a lot of pitches setting up hitters. I think we are in a good position to face Peavy because (as of late) we are a patient hitting team. If we can get his pitch count up and get into their bullpen we should be able to score some runs and get back in the game (if we are down). That being said all you posters that get negative by the 3rd inning….. patience is the key tonight, both with the players and BCB’ers. IMO this is a game thats going to be won or lost late.
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
Jim Edmonds
I’m new to this here board. First time poster! (Insert music here). Anyway. There a few reasons why the Cubs are going to sign Edmonds. Pie is still not getting it, check out his swing in certain situations, it’s still too long. Lou has worked with him, he still isn’t getting it, so much so that Lou won’t even platoon him with Johnson. Therefore, he should go back down and correct it. (If he can). I certainly hope he can, but as it stands right now, Pie isn’t it. Now Edmonds might not be the answer, and obviously he is not the answer for the future. Right now though, for $280,000, he is an option to be explored. Signing Ed will allow them to put the Dome in the 2 spot, and back up our “lead-off” hitter. It will allow us to move Theriot down to 8- in order to potentially create more RBI opportunities for Soriano when the line-up is turned over. Now, all this being said, Edmonds could fall flat on his face- maybe he is indeed done- if he is then bye-bye in 3 weeks. If he isn’t and can provide any bat at all, he solves two problems. One, a left handed power bat in the line-up to break up the righties. Two, when he isn’t platooning with Johnson, he will be a nice pinch hitter to have to complement D. Ward. To be honest, I don’t think that the line-up is just fine as it is. It’s pretty good, but with a few more tweaks it could be over-powering to the rest of the N.L. Now, I know I’ll get ripped for what I just wrote, but just like signing Ed, my post is a calculated risk. Thoughts?
Jimmyeatworld - May 14, 2008
Jim Hendry?
Is that you?
Al Yellon - May 14, 2008
Your post is completely logical to me...
in particular the part about Theriot hitting 8th to give Alf more ribbies. That had never occurred to me. I also am not entirely sold that the lineup can sustain what we’ve seen til now.
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
What you say makes sense to a point.
The question is – what do we do in three weeks if he is going bye-bye? Does Pie go up and down? Will Lou ever give Pie consecutive playing days to get it going and if not now, then when?
DGU - May 14, 2008
I want Pie to stay
But if he does go down, I have no problem with an up and down stint. It does several things
-Gives him time to work with Mr. Perry, his old hitting coach
-Provides motivation
-Lets us conduct an inexpensive experiment
The only bad thing here is that it burns his last option – which does make a difference, but I think its somewhat negligible. We all know that Pie is a hard worker and he will always give it his all. He just needs help to get it together. IMO.
I do wish we could keep his defensive skills handy.
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
For what it's worth
I read Muskrat’s story on this from Cubs.com. After I got the bad taste out of my mouth for giving her the click, the supposed reason is so that Pie can work on his swing in a less stressful environment to improve and come back up.
IOW, assuming Lou is being truthful (and Carrie’s reporting it properly) it’s a temporary fix. I don’t know why it can’t be fixed with a player already in the organization who isn’t in a walker, but there it is…
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
Pie's option
If a player is optioned for fewer than 20 days, no option is burned. IOW, the Cubs can give Edmonds a 19 day trial (i.e., 19 chances to plaster himself against a brick wall and end up on the DL) or they can option Fontenot at that time and bring Pie back up without burning his option.
DeRoMyHero - May 14, 2008
Thoughts? How 'bout paragraph breaks? Lots of 'em.
daver - May 14, 2008
someone remind me...
Why is Jim Edmonds a better pick over another FA, Jacque Jones?
luv4cubs2 - May 14, 2008
I saw too many two hoppers from the outfield
from JJ to really ever want him back
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
Oh, you remember his strongest throws......
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
response to al, response to luv4cubs2
Nope not the Creighton man… Wish I was though, I’d be getting paid!! Someone listened to Murph on the Score today… Jacque is not a lefty POWER bat. Plus, the Cubs already explored that.
Jimmyeatworld - May 14, 2008
Does anyone remember on the WGN 60 year Cub special.....
...where i believe it was Mike Krukow who said that when the Cubs finally win, part of the impetus would come from totally unexpected sources? Like maybe…..Reed Johnson and I don’t know—maybe uh…....it’s our year folks.
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
I like the way you think.
If we really do get Edmonds we are going to have to accept the fact that he is our CF, like it or not.
TheNotoriousJJ - May 14, 2008
We....
really did.
BMoney79 - May 14, 2008
got a link?
I looked at ESPN, I saw nothing.
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
Nothin' that I've seen on the net either
ESPN 1000 reports are confirming that he has signed, and should be in uniform tonight.
BMoney79 - May 14, 2008
Taking his physical now.
$284,000 deal.
BMoney79 - May 14, 2008
Edmonds will be too busy...
frosting his locks down the street at some Halsted manhole to give a rats ass about his #’s on the field. With his upper-cut swing we should only start him when the wind is blowing straight out at 20+mph.
I’d rather see anyone in a cub uniform than Edmonds. I’m praying that if he is signed it lights a giant fire under Pie’s ass and he blows up minor league pitching like a fourth of July Marine Corps R & R picnic in Baghad. And Lou…If it aint broke, don’t fix it. This is making us look desperate, which we’re not. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
chi-townbleacherbum - May 14, 2008
LSA
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
Wow, I hate him too.
but I could do without the blatant homophobia.
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
We prefer closet homophics around here....
santoswoodenlegs - May 14, 2008
Really?!?!?!?
The whiner has landed?
ugh
N Oakley - May 14, 2008
Signing Ed
It’s not about Pie hitting minor league pitching, it’s about hitting major league pitching. No, it doesn’t make us look desperate, it makes us look smart, exploring prudent options. It isn’t about it, (the line-up), being broke- it’s all about simply making the line-up better. Besides Ed didn’t get to be a Major League starter for all these years by not giving a rat’s ass. Now, I know he is a supposedly a jerk, but not a Major League jerk. What I mean is he’s a veteran, proven player. Let’s remember that he has a proven track record.
Jimmyeatworld - May 14, 2008
So what happens in three weeks if his more recent track record turns out to be more proven than his career record?
Does Pie come up for two weeks for sporadic playing time only to be sent down again or traded off when another inferior defender is signed? And does Lou recognize that our defense is struggling more than our offense and that this is a move taking us in the opposite direction?
DGU - May 14, 2008
agreed
And I think hitting in a lineup that’s been hot will add fuel to Edmonds fire. I like this signing, even though I’ve always been a Pie supporter.
I’m glad to see Jim Hendry making moves and thinking about winning now. Does anyone think we need a #2 pitcher? Perhaps Gallagher will do well.
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
He WAS a proven player...
now, he’s a big question mark. His track record over the past few years has been one of steady and rapid decline from elite player to has-been.
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
Well, that track record got him released from the Padres
crazymountain - May 14, 2008
Somewhere Kevin Towers is leaning back in his chair, smoking a nice big expensive cigar...
as he sets down a glass of fine Scotch on his desk, right next to Prior’s medical reports. He looks again at his Blackberry and smiles as it confirms that the Cubs have indeed signed Edmonds.
And he’s thinking… “Revenge is a dish best served old…”
ballhawk - May 14, 2008
LOL
nice….
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
This was so funny that I screen shotted it and sent it to a bunch of people
in various reaches of the US—that was REALLY hilarious! “The Wrath of Towers”
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
Ed’s track record didn’t get him released. He had an injury he tried to play through, and SD had a glut of outfielders to play in that cow pasture of a ball park. Again, this has nothing to do with Pie going up or down, it has everything to do with Pie just not getting it.
Jimmyeatworld - May 14, 2008
I like how you keep calling calling Edmonds "Ed".
daver - May 14, 2008
Article on ESPN.com
Page 2’s David Schoenfeld on ESPN.com has this to say about the Edmonds situation
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
In regard to the ESPN2 article
it’s nice to see we’re not the only putzes capable of typos “it can happy in a hurry” ? Spell check doesn’t catch an actual word.
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
haha i saw that too
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
I saw that
THE FIRST LINE, yutz
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Edmonds in CF tonight
It’d be kind of neat to see Edmonds in CF tonight and/or tomorrow and LIGHT UP the team that just released him.
Don’t forget Edmonds was always a monster in Wrigley.
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
Think its too early to call
I’m still banking on a failed physical. I’ve got a guy who knows a guy who’s in the office…..
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
You really know a guy?
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Know
a few guys, most of them drinking buddies
Lou In Blue - May 14, 2008
He was a monster in Wrigley
When he was in the first half of his life.
My money’s on a failed physical!
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
I'm trying to find Edmonds stats in WRIGLEY alone
Any ideas? Would be cool to see his stats in wrigley over the last few years. He’s one of the most hated players in Cubdome partly because he was always a Cub Killer.
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
.254/.378/.540/.918 career at Wrigley
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Which are basically his career numbers.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
nice OBP and SLG,
but I don’t expect anything near that from at this point, given his age and his injury history.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Where did you find that?
The link to baseball-reference.com provided below is showing me something different.
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
Scroll down more
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Never mind
Answered below….I will defer to those smarter than I. :)
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
You're looking a vs. Cubs altogether.
Scroll down farther for his splits by stadium.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Got it.
Thanks for the correction and stats.
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
Anytime.
But thanks Hammer for the stats. He posted the link.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Baseballreference.com
I love it
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Thanks Hammer, for the stats!
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
.254
is not really A MONSTER
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=edmonji01
Hammer - May 14, 2008
This says BA .270
and OBP of .394
SLG .554
OPS .948
and 32 HR in 126 games at Wrigley Field alone
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
This are his numbers vs. the Cubs altogether.
I posted his Wrigley numbers above.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
OH good point
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
somebody quick...
make a rainbow colored bandana, market it, and watch the money roll in
chi-townbleacherbum - May 14, 2008
Go away.
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
Ladies and gentlemen
SCHOOLS OUT
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Are you twelve?
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
I know Al
doesn’t like name calling in here but you’re an ass.
sue369 - May 14, 2008
+1
gwood - May 14, 2008
Folks--i see some prefernce type innuendos here....
......are those rumors substantive?
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
It's all secrets and lies!
Secrets and lies…
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
My x g/f went to a party at Scott Rolen's house in STL
Edmonds was there. I won’t go further than that for fear of being banned from the site. Bottom line, if he can get the job done, I don’t care what he does. Like everyone else, I don’t want him to sign, but if he does sign, then I will have to root for him. My loyalty to the cubs is bigger than any one player.
chi-townbleacherbum - May 14, 2008
Now I'm curious as to what happened
I’ll bear all responsibility lol
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
For the record...
gay=bad?
we care about sexual preference of our players.
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
we do?
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
I was summarizing his thoughts.
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
And?
What a player does in the privacy of his own boudoir doesn’t matter to me.
Hit and field. That’s what I care about him doing.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Agreed.
I f*ed up by posting that garbage earlier. Once again, I’m sorry. However, I don’t know if this has any relation to him being viewed as a “loner” by his former teammates in STL. That would make this topic relevant.
chi-townbleacherbum - May 14, 2008
Well, Marquis, per Mark Derosa, said Edmonds was only
that way in public and that in the clubhouse he was actually quite gregarious. Take that for what it’s worth, considering Marquis can be quite a dour guy himself.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
there's some
SAT words for ya. “Gregarious.” “Dour.” :D
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
GRE words, actually.
I’ve been studying!
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
who cares?
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
I care if...
it affects players attitudes toward their teammates. Like it or not, this might. You can not possibly make an argument that how players get along doesn’t have an affect on the team. 2 words: Michael Barrett
chi-townbleacherbum - May 14, 2008
if it does
I’ll think less of the team.
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
Edmonds with 17 HR in 216 AB in Wrigley
For a rate of 1 HR ever 12 at bats….Decent?
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
Really, you're better off looking at HR/PA or HR/FB...
...than HR/PA. That said, off the top of my head it’s probably not bad. Of course, that was back before he was a 38-year-old who got released by the team with the worst record in baseball.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
You forgot one...
“so Jody Gerut could get more playing time.”
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
Lou pronounces it Ger-OOT
JohnM - May 14, 2008
What are you fellas going to do if Edmonds actually produces?
Seriously. It is definitely within the realm of possibility that he comes in here and recaptures some of his past glory…power, RBIs, good defense in center. I’m not saying it WILL happen, but it very well could happen. And heavens to betsy what will you fellas say if Edmonds becomes an integral piece to a winning formula?
Oh the tortured dilemma. Hoping that Jim Edmonds falls flat on his face is anti-Cub. So shut up and give the guy a chance to swim or sink. Who knows, we may be stunningly surprised by the results.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
Un like you when Soriano began to produce,
I’ll cheer for him. Loudly as possible. I’ll toast his good health. I’ll compose a Grecian-style Ode to his fanciful defense. I’ll write a ballad about his powerful swing. Why? Because I support the team, instead of looking for validation in the failures of players I purport to support. I don’t want the Cubs to sign Edmonds, but I will root like hell for him as soon as it happens.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
+1
we will admit (happily) that we were wrong about Edmunds. We aren’t above admitting when we are wrong. Nor do we relish being right about a player not performing up to their abilities.
Gary’s got it totally right. While none of us want the team to sign Jim Edmunds, once he is a member of the Cubs, we will root for him because if he is able to do well that will only help our team.
gwood - May 14, 2008
MDBNIU doesn't like Soriano?
What are you talking about? He thinks that Soriano will be the team MVP this year, and have a monster year!
Oh, wait, that was 3 months ago. Somehow in the course of 25 games this season he’s gone from candidate for team MVP to worst contract in baseball.
Wreckard - May 14, 2008
PWNED!!!!
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
THE SEARCH FUNCTION
Dear BlueMike:
When you are proved to be Mariottiesque twice in one day will you acknowledge it?
Odds stand at 0
Hammer - May 14, 2008
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Oh man…the Internet is a bitch, isn’t it, MDBNIU? Every single hypocritical keystroke recorded for eternity.
daver - May 14, 2008
He must have left for the day
Bwawawawwawawwwa
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Wreckard,
you are my hero. Keep em coming.
sue369 - May 14, 2008
Hey man Im trying to generate some pro-Edmonds sentiment here
And I respect your effort but I think at this point, you can only do more harm than good considering your reputation here. Saying, “shut up and give the guy a chance” doesn’t help much.
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
No one wants him to fall on his face
they dont want him in the door in the first place; including me. Let me recapture his skills somewhere else.
Hammer - May 14, 2008
I don't know. What do you say when you're wrong?
Oh, that’s right – you say nothing, you just move on and post in another thread.
Or maybe they will be bigger people, admit they’re wrong, and cheer for him anyway because they support their team. Not everyone here is so obsessed with being proven right all the time that they would actively cheer against a Cub the way you seem to.
Wreckard - May 14, 2008
LSA.
Exactly. If Edmonds produces well, I’ll eat that plate of crow most happily.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Get some marconi giardenerra for that crow
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Hey,
I put it on my shoes!
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
"Oh, that’s right – you say nothing, you just move on and post in another thread."
Says it all.
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Oh come on...
you know he’s never wrong! :)
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
If he succeeds...
I’ll be very happy. I’m completely fine with being proven wrong. But that doesn’t mean I have to like the idea now. It is within the realm of possibility that Edmonds will find his old form. I’d say it is far from the expected outcome. That’s why I think it’s a bad idea.
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
I'm not a big Edmonds fan either
But as stated a billion times this is a zero risk move for the Cubs. And it COULD pay handsome dividends. Plus, I got to be honest. Edmonds was a Cub killer in his prime. Nice maybe to have him on our side, plus stuff it in the face of the Cardinals.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
It's not a zero risk move...
you burn Pie’s last option by sending him down, and continue to prevent him from getting a real chance to play. I realilze you don’t think he’ll succeed, but you have to admit that it is well within the realm of possibility that Pie will succeed. We can disagree on the amount of risk that it is, but it is not zero risk.
Edmonds was great in his prime – four years ago. He’s FAR from his prime now. I do not think it will be nice to have a washed up player on our side.
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
Jinx.
Too slow! We may need an overflow thread.
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
Same thing you've done now that Soriano is getting hot.
Not acknowledge it.
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
"it" being that I ever torched the decision
I’ll be co-writing GaryVarsho’s Grecian ode.
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
when you start acknowledging
that Soriano was directly responsible for at least two of the four wins we just had…
then we’ll talk about it, Thurston.
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
I got a funny:
Edmonds could hit .320 with 15 HR’s and there’d still be Cub fans and you know who you are, that will be crying that Pie never got a “fair chance” waa waa friggen waaaa and we’ll “never know what he could’ve done”, because he didn’t get an opportunity to play everyday.
lemon20pie - May 14, 2008
Wait until all the young females at Wrigley sport Edmonds jerseys
Chicks dig Edmonds. Down in St. Louis every female under the age of 45 wears an Edmonds jersey. My wife tells me that Edmonds is pretty studly looking. Hundreds of females at Wrigley sporting Edmonds jerseys…
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
My best friend
has a mancrush on him. Of course, any dude that’s a fan of someone named Poohole is bound to have mancrushes.
walsh2317 - May 14, 2008
I wont post this pic
Because he makes me sick and its large
http://static.flickr.com/24/59756144_8c5777e40f_o.jpg
Hammer - May 14, 2008
HAHAHAHAHHAHAA
that tongue is beyond rediculous
philadelphiacub - May 14, 2008
Boy, I'm glad we're getting him now...
because popularity with the young females is exactly what I want most in a player.
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
They won't dig Edmunds
after they see the shirt he’s sporting in this photo that is posted as gaslamp:
http://www.half-shirt.com/images/jimmy1big.jpg
(posted the actual picture so no one would have to read the stuff posted over there)
gwood - May 14, 2008
Holy crap...
...I just had a Hank Azaria-in-”The Birdcage” flashback.
And I just mini-barfed in my mouth.
Shawon O Meter - May 14, 2008
If Jim Edmonds hit .320 with 15 HR
I would sing in the street of his great feats.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Agreed...
if only it were 2003-2004…
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
What about...
If he hits .280 with 20 HR in 300 AB? Approximately 80 games Started?
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
That's still better than anything
Reed can muster. I’d take it.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
That'd be great too...
what’s the point of this post? The odds of that happening (especially the 20 HR part) are pretty small. Are you just trying to find the threshold of positive outcome with Edmonds?
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
Also, we're entirely ignoring defense here.
Or walks, or doubles.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
Exactly.
I’d love for Edmonds to be productive, but there’s nothing in his numbers that past two seasons that suggests to me that’s going to happen.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
pretty much
Im reserving judgement until we actually see him for ourselves for an extended period of time (3-4 weeks)
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
Let's keep in mnd, though
that this is a guy who hit 12 HR in 365 AB last season.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Ah
Interesting…but how many AB in a hitter’s park such as wrigley?
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
Is Wrigley so much of a hitter's park compared to St Louis?
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
The new stadium?
I don’t know. Good question.
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
I suspect the difference is negligible..
Edmonds was definitely below average last year, and that continued a three-year downward trend from really really good to definitely below average. I’ll be shocked if he suddenly turned it around this year.
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
cwyers:
How do the park factors for Wrigley and New Busch compare?
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Real quick:
Wrigley: 1.05
Busch: .98
St. Louis is a mild pitcher’s park, Wrigley something of a hitter’s park. Now you can break this down into component park factors (1B, 2B, 3B, HR, BB) and into left-handed and right-handed park factors. But Edmonds numbers were depressed a bit last season by his park. They were probably depressed a bit more than that by being old, though. And he may change parks, but he’s not going to be changing ages for the better.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
Many thanks.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Thanks from me as well
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
Just like the dopes
who said and still say that AAAA Murton, never got his chance!!
Itchy - May 14, 2008
Right, because there's all kinds of evidence that says that Murton is a productive outfielder.
It’s not even that he didn’t get his chance. He got his chance and proved that he was a league-average left fielder. The Cubs wanted more than that, and now he’s rotting in AAA.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
Exactly...
There’s over 800 AB of solid hitting to suggest Murton is a MLB player. We just happened to sign two guys who are better than him at his positions. Totally different debate. But I guess people like Itchy don’t understand things like this.
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
The whole debate is stupid
It’s no-lose situation. Give Edmonds a shot, if he fails, release him and move on.
Itchy - May 14, 2008
Again, it's not a no-lose situation if...
...Jim Edmond’s poor defense in centerfield loses games for the Chicago Cubs.
daver - May 14, 2008
It's not no-lose...
you burn Pie’s last option (which is very relevant).
If we were getting a guy who was likely to bounce back, that’d be one thing. There’d be a risk/reward there. But EVERYTHING points toward Edmonds being done.
There’s very little likelihood of reward here. So you’re taking a definite negative (burning Pie’s option) for likely no positive. And you may be compounding the negative (if Edmonds sucks and you lose Pie’s defense).
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
He's a singles hitter with no postion with zero trade value
that’s why he’s sitting in Des Moines!
Itchy - May 14, 2008
He has a position - left field.
The Cubs have a BETTER left fielder, but Soriano is a perennial All-Star and one of the best left fielders in baseball, so “being worse than Soriano” is not the same as “being a bad baseball player.” He definitely has some trade value – the Padres and Red Sox both asked about him during the offseason, among other clubs. The Cubs think they can get more for him if they wait around longer.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
Agreed...
Murton is basically a league-average LF. He’s not great, he’s not bad. His problem with the Cubs is that Soriano couldn’t play CF, and Soriano is a much better player.
SouthernCub - May 14, 2008
This is different.
Murton got his chance. He succeeded. But, we had the chance to bring in an obviously better player, and we did it.
Edmonds is not an obviously better player than Pie.
Bildo1805 - May 14, 2008
Who says that?
Murton got 455 AB in 2006, then the Cubs got a shot at Soriano and took it. Nowhere near the same situation
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
yes. there likely will.
Wanna know why?
Pie could be our centerfielder for ten years. Edmonds, even if he hits .320 with 15 HRs (I’m amazed I was able to get that out without vomiting or bursting into hysterical laughter tinged with self-loathing) can not.
drewishdrewid - May 14, 2008
No offense, but you two strike me as kindred spirits.....
The Lip - May 14, 2008
Well, I thought it .....
...was going to post under Lemon20pie and MDBNIU’s posts thereby being understandable…....oh well.
The Lip - May 14, 2008
If this is really our year--Edmonds will end up being a windfall......
......if not, many will point to today as the move that derailed a really good team. We could still use a GOOD starting pitcher…...I wonder if Carpenter can be had? ;c-)
cubfever7 - May 14, 2008
+1
I agree that we need pitching. I fear that the perceived depth of our starting pitching is somewhat of a mirage.
cubsonWGN4ever - May 14, 2008
Actually, I think it’s many of us that have the blind spot when it comes to Pie. His swing is so full of holes and his plate discipline so poor that he is easily exploited by any competent MLB pitcher.
At some point I think we need to look at organizational philosophy where hitting is concerned because to honestly believe that Pie’s swing would translate to the majors as is …well, was pure short sighted at best. Bottom line, Pie’s natural talent was able to take advantage of inferior pitching., but once in the majors, superior pitching has been taking advantage of Pie.
Pie has no control of the strike zone. Why wasn’t this addressed in the minors? There are very, very few players that succeed without some strike zone discipline and Pie doesn’t have the type of swing ( like Vlade) for that kind of expanded plate coverage.
Also, the length and loop in his swing makes him vulnerable to pitches up in the zone or middle in..
I have no doubt that Lou was really hoping that Pie could figure it out up here because he really values the other tools ( defense and speed ). But it hasn’t happened. Now Pie has to go down and remake his swing, and learn the strike zone, something that should have been worked on in the minors when he was a raw 20 yr old. .
As for Edmonds, I think he’s done. Guess we’ll see.
alexinSac - May 14, 2008
Vlad
Are you saying his swing is like Pie’s or isnt?
californiachicagoan - May 14, 2008
Per The Score' Jesse Rogers
Jim Hendry has just told the beat guys at Wrigley that Edmonds is on his way to town to to take a physical. If he passes he will be in the lineup tomorrow night.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Confirmed...
...by the Sun-Times beatwriter.
cwyers - May 14, 2008
Sigh.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Let's clear the air on Soriano
First, I DO want him to succeed. Lord knows he is going to be ours for an incredibly long term and is being paid multi millions. So lets dispense of the horse hoey that I want to see Soriano fail. That’s simply not true. He needs to perform for the Cubs to perform to their optimum.
Second, I DO NOT like Soriano for the reasons recounted too many times in the past.
These two points can co-exist for me. There really is no other choice.
MDBNIU - May 14, 2008
Question
(which I wont get an answer for)
If he is nothing but a guess hitting hack…....why would you of esteemed baseball knowledge predict he would be the Cubs MVP?
Hmmmmm very interesting
Hammer - May 14, 2008
what ya gonna say next
Hammer - May 14, 2008
Nice!
daver - May 14, 2008
Then why take such glory in his failures
and pretend as if his successes never happen?
You are a bundle of contradictions. Walt Whitman would be jealous.
gary varsho - May 14, 2008
Yes, but based on those same incessantly recounted "reasons" as you call them...
...Alfonso Soriano could NEVER succeed in your eyes. He could homer three times a game for a week and you’d call him a selfish stats whore with “voodoo paint” under his eyes. Sorry, you can’t clear the air on this topic—it’s permanently toxic.
daver - May 14, 2008
So a failed physical is the only thing that could keep Edmonds out of Chi-town eh?
Didn’t someone say earlier that they had a guy who knew a guy bla bla bla. Perhaps its time to start calling in some favors. lol
chi-townbleacherbum - May 14, 2008
Mr. Ed & Soriano
Just now was able to get off the phone at work, (the boss finally left!). To all of you that keep coming up with these trivial reasons why you would like to see “anyone but Ed” in a Cubs Uni.: Think about what you are saying. You are saying that Hendry & esp. Lou don’t know what they are doing. Conversely, a lot of you admitted that if Ed does well, (and doesn’t hurt the team), that you would welcome the addition; in as much admitting that you think Lou & Jim know what they are doing. Let’s all remember: we are fans, (some more thoughtful & intelligently informed than others), but fans none the less; Lou and Hendry get paid millions of dollars and have careers full of experience to back up what they do, and don’t do. Bottom line, signing Ed is a calculated risk, and I believe a smart one.
Jimmyeatworld - May 14, 2008
Well the Cardinals certainly have a proven track record of....
resurrecting veteran careers. And they let Edmonds go. Enough said.
chi-townbleacherbum - May 14, 2008
As a chick under the age of 45.....
.....you would not catch me DEAD in a f*in Jim Edmonds jersey. I utterly loathe him….mostly because he was a Cardinal, very much so because he is/was/always will be a hotdog and finally because he thinks he’s hot. The man makes my skin crawl.
I hope he knocks the hell out of the ball every chance he gets….but I could only see jumping up and down and cheering for him if he hits the GWRBI in the final game of the World Series.
iluvryno - May 14, 2008
ed
It’s not about if he makes your skin crawl, it’s not about the Cardinals “proven track record” either. It’s about if this can, (not will), make the Cubs a better team. If it does, great, if not, like I said before- Bye Bye in 2-3 weeks. Now that’s Enough Said…
Jimmyeatworld - May 14, 2008
belive me...we're all optimistic
as fans we have to be. But he has been on the downward spiral for several years in a row. We don’t need a 2-3 week experiment. What possibly can the Cubs see in him that 2 other organizations didn’t?
chi-townbleacherbum - May 14, 2008
By the way...
I don’t really like Ed either. I do respect his baseball career.
Jimmyeatworld - May 14, 2008
I respect his baseball career too
After all, no opposing fan ever hates you unless you’re good. If he hit .217 vs. the Cubs I wouldn’t know who he was.
iluvryno - May 14, 2008
I thouught as much
My comment was more directed at the enough said guy. Guys that think they know more than professional baseball men that get paid millions make my skin crawl…
Jimmyeatworld - May 14, 2008
Did everybody go home already?
Jimmyeatworld - May 14, 2008
@ Game thread
The Lip - May 14, 2008
Alright now
It’s time to go home, gotta mow the lawn. Besides I’m almost out of smokes. C’mon Cubbies. Let’s all meet here tomorrow to celebrate a great game pitched by Ted “Dead Pres.” Lilly & a Cubs win! Prediction: Cubs: 8, Pads: 4. Later.
Jimmyeatworld - May 14, 2008
Thanks Lip.
I’m new to this… Of course everybody went over to the game thread…
Jimmyeatworld - May 14, 2008
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