Hey Z! Next time you're pissed at yourself for striking out, don't break the bat over your knee!!!
Seriously. It was, I suppose, sort of funny at the time and provoked a huge cheer from the sellout crowd of 41,686 (largest of the year so far), but Carlos Zambrano, who didn't have his best stuff in the first four innings, completely lost it in the fifth after he came out following the bat-breaking episode. Three hits and two walks later, Lou had to take him out of the game, and thank heavens for Michael Wuertz, Scott Eyre (who was so anxious to get into the game that he started trotting in from the bullpen at the beginning of the 7th, even though Lou hadn't called for him) and Jon Lieber for throwing four innings of two-hit, five-strikeout relief and keeping the game close.
Unfortunately, it wasn't enough, as Carlos Marmol was touched for a single that -- once again -- might have been handled by Ronny Cedeno at SS, but Ryan Theriot, despite a great effort, couldn't throw Freddy Sanchez out, and then Nate McLouth hit a two-run HR that was the difference in the Pirates' 7-6 win over the Cubs this afternoon, the first time the Pirates have beaten the Cubs since September 9, 2007 in Pittsburgh, ten straight wins for the Cubs over the Pirates; that's the longest such Cub-over-Pirate streak in 117 years (since 1890-91), on a sunny Saturday when the wind shifted from strong-blowing-out-to-RF, to strong-blowing-in-over-RF, which may have prevented Derrek Lee's fly ball from going out in the last of the 9th.
I told Mike after the Pirates took the lead 5-4 in the fifth that it'd be up to the white-hot-en-fuego-any-superlative-you-can-think-of Alfonso Soriano to win the game, and damned if he didn't nearly do just that. In a homestand where Soriano's hit virtually everything in sight, today was his best game of all -- 5-for-5 with two HR and two doubles (13 total bases); he's now 20-for-37 (.541) with 5 doubles, 7 HR and 15 RBI in the nine games played so far in this longest homestand of the year, raising his average to .295 (coming in off the last road trip, he was hitting .188).
And we know that just as quickly, he could turn around and have a bad stretch, so you ride this streak as long as it lasts. Soriano still seems to be running slowly; his ground-rule double into the ivy in the 9th inning would probably have only been a single if it had exited the ivy and been fielded by McLouth, because he rounded first base very slowly. That would have prevented him from scoring on Ryan Theriot's single, not that it really mattered for the final result. Derrek Lee's fly ball looked, off the bat, as if it might make it for an amazing walkoff win, but Xavier Nady caught it just short of the warning track.
Today -- the Cubs just got beat. There's no shame in being beaten by McLouth, who is one of maybe three decent players on the Pirates and who is off to a torrid start himself (his 36 RBI now rank second in the National League). After Z's meltdown, the Cubs seemed to kind of shrink back and Zach Duke, who had been hashed around pretty good in the first four innings (eight hits, four runs), retired the last eight Cubs he faced. Tyler Yates, his relief, had Soriano as his first opposing hitter and he gave Alfonso his 2nd HR of the day. Soriano's so zoned in that virtually all of his HR have landed right near our section -- one yesterday just to our right, close to the foul pole, that second one today just to our left, to section 303 across the aisle in the last row.
It might have been a bit different, too, had Geovany Soto been safe on Mark DeRosa's double in the third inning. It seemed the right call at the time, leading 3-1, to send Soto, even though he's probably the slowest man in the starting lineup. Replays appeared to confirm that he was out. Had he scored, the score would have neen 4-1 and maybe Duke gets yanked right then and there.
On things like this, ballgames can turn. We'll get 'em tomorrow.
Two final notes: I thought having Kosuke Fukudome bunt in the 8th was the right call, especially since he usually handles the bat so well; this was a situation where you're not bunting strictly to sacrifice, but perhaps to beat it out. Dome had that in mind, as he attempted to push the bunt past Damaso Marte, but didn't quite get it far enough, and Marte was able to throw the lead runner, Aramis Ramirez, out at second, effectively killing the rally.
And conspicuous by his absence was Jim Edmonds. Rather than double-switching in the 9th when Marmol came in with Mike Fontenot, Lou could have used Edmonds to bat for Marmol in the last of the ninth. Instead, Edmonds stayed anchored to the bench today, and likely will be again tomorrow with yet another lefty, Phil Dumatrait (who the Cubs have beaten like the proverbial drum), going.
Finally, I heard today about some things that are happening to the guy who jumped out of the bleachers last Sunday. He was apparently dared by some of his friends (as is the usual thing in these cases, perhaps fueled by alcohol), and was in the Navy. He's being discharged from the Navy (my guess is, not honorably), and has also lost a chance to qualify for the US Olympic team, and may wind up in prison, convicted of a felony.
That's a lesson, kids. Don't do stuff like that. There are consequences for bad choices. The jumper apparently had everything going for him and has lost a lot due to one bad choice.
0 recs | 110 comments
A question about the jumper
just outta curiosity, what sport does he play that he would try and quality for the US Olympic team? Baseball?
DTJchris - May 17, 2008
I don't know the answer to that.
I only heard “Olympic team”. It’s probably not baseball as those guys are selected, not “qualified”.
Al Yellon - May 17, 2008
Man, with friends like that...
wonder what his enemies are like…..
cowsarecool220 - May 17, 2008
Thanks for sharing this info, Al.
I must confess, I’m oddly fascinated by what motivates these idiots to jump on the field. And just saying “they’re drunk” doesn’t quite do it for me.
daver - May 17, 2008
Apparently he got dared.
That sounds stupid, but I guess when you get drunk enough, that “dare” seems like a good idea. It’s quite the opposite.
Al Yellon - May 18, 2008
According to Cubs security..
it was wrestling.
gp1966 - May 18, 2008
The good news today...
....is that Marmol’s ERA is still under 2.00 even after losing the game.
ronsanto10 - May 17, 2008
Fluke Loss
This is the kind of loss that occurs sometimes, but is definitely out of character. No way does Marmol and Zambrano pitch this poorly in the same game again. And no way does Ramirez, Lee, and Fukudome go 0-12 in the same game!
Fluke loss, we will take game three tomorrow.
Mr W - May 17, 2008
It was a tough loss
but the positive is what you said…the cubs still put up 6 runs with the ramirez, lee, and fukudome going 0-12. I think it just shows how balanced the lineup is, and it’s showed over this homestand. Z’s going to have a few bad starts…let’s hope he’s got this one out of the way and he’s good for a long personal winning streak.
cubsmania - May 17, 2008
I love Zambrano's latin passion
but I do hope he finds a way to keep it in check during a game. It’s like he had a fight with his girlfriend or something. He was messed up from the git go. Oh well. He’s human. There’s always manana.
Emelie - May 17, 2008
Well, if he did have a fight with his girlfriend, I hope he didn't take it out on his wife.
daver - May 17, 2008
Or maybe his
wife found out about his girlfriend and that’s why he was distracted today. ;-)
sue369 - May 17, 2008
Oh, the tangled web he weaves!
daver - May 17, 2008
Team loss
I was at the game today. Even an ace is going to have a bad game from time to time and after Z gave up the hit to lead off the game it was clear that Carlos didn’t have good stuff. Seeing him swing for the fences in his at bats and then break the bat over his knee today was very disappointing. His head was not in the game and Carlos needs to learn that as a batter, you don’t always hit a HR, sometimes you advance a runner, etc. I don’t want to see Carlos become a guy unwilling to lay down a bunt, etc, because of his perceived hitting prowess.
Derrek Lee looks like he really needs a day off. His bad was slow all day today and he’s been grounding into a lot of DPs lately. Perhaps he needs to adjust to the scouting report but he looks like he needs a day off. The middle of the line-up did nothing today, so add that to the ace falling apart and the key reliever giving up a bomb and its hard to win a game like that.
DmL
dmlichte - May 17, 2008
Agreed on your Z comments.
I didn’t see the game but it sounds as if Z may have taken a less than professional approach to this one, perhaps taking the Pirates for granted and the expected fan adoration as he slugs a HR? Who knows? But I think stuff like that matters allot to Z, unfortunately…
All that said, from reading the Box score if the middle of the lineup does anything at all we probably still get a win. It’s nothing to get upset about…
Maybe Z needs to spend an hour with Dr. Phil or a shrink or hypnotist before each start begins? The guy needs to be turned into a banana eating Zombie before his starts.
DudeVf11 - May 17, 2008
You are right
I’m fascinated by Z’s psychology. He’s young, he’s remarkably talented, and likely raised to think he’s a god. What I hope is that in the next few years he finds a way to mature and understand that harnessing talent is as important as showboating it. Baseball is about psyching out the opponent, not allowing the opponent to psych out you.Emelie - May 17, 2008
Not just a hypnotist...
He may require the Hypnotoad!
MN exile - May 18, 2008
Get 'em tomorrow?
Is this the “auto statement” before looking at the next day’s matchup?
I am 0-2 in Marquis starts this year and he’s had nothing both times, regardless of the “one inning”. I expect to be 0-3 as the luck of the draw got me “Up-Down Jason”, tomorrow.
He is a bad pitcher, with a bad contract as well that Hendry could not move in the off season.
The “good” thing is, another crap in his pants tomorrow and I think Lou will look for another potion. From what I am reading, Rich Hill is not near coming back due to the lingering control issues.
I hope I am totally wrong, and Marquis pitches a 3-hit shutout – but if I were in Vegas, I’d bet it…
The E-Man - May 17, 2008
You should note, however, that...
... the Pirates are throwing a pitcher tomorrow who’s even worse than Marquis - Phil Dumatrait. His lifetime ERA vs. the Cubs is 7.36 in 11 IP with 13 hits and 13 walks - that’s a 2.36 WHIP. The Cubs ought to eat him alive.
Al Yellon - May 17, 2008
Agreed...
You know, I was curious on this and looked it up a little while ago. Dumatrait has ONE win, and has made it to the 6th inning once…
If there is one game that Marquis could (COULD) win if he can hold the Bucs to 4 runs or under, should be tomorrow…BUT, I said this at Tuesday’s Estes game!
The E-Man - May 17, 2008
To say Marquis is due for
a quality start is an understatement. Let’s see if “Good Jason” can show up tomorrow. It sure would be nice to finish this home stand 8-2 and have a win going into that Houston series.
LAcarl519 - May 17, 2008
Isn't Hart a starting pitcher?
crazymountain - May 17, 2008
not
yet
drewishdrewid - May 17, 2008
z
someday that bat breaking nonsense will cost z some big time on the d.l. or worse hurt his career.cant pitch with a bad knee stupid.
NOMAR - May 17, 2008
Agreed.
Time to grow up, Z.
Al Yellon - May 17, 2008
Yeah.
We might never find out, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Lou already had a conversation with “Carloco” about that.
(BTW, the moniker is out of appreciation and admiration for Z. But I think it describes the Z from this afternoon.)
Fraggin Judge - May 17, 2008
In the post game
press conference Z said he did it because he was pissed. Lou was not very happy that Z broke the bat over his knee.
sue369 - May 17, 2008
Exactly.
You can get pissed; who wouldn’t be in that situation? But you have to learn to channel it in a different way. Z apparently hasn’t learned that yet.
Al Yellon - May 18, 2008
This was the “Big Z” that I was hoping that we wouldn’t see again. Everything was going so well for him since the start of spring training. There was no contract pressure, and he has been smiling alot and playing plenty of pranks. I know Lou was pissed about the bat breaking incident. He just needs to put this game behind him and get back on track in his next start.
montecarlo - May 17, 2008
Didn't get to see the game...
but it appears that, in the end, it was a simple case of a good hitter beating a good pitcher. New day tomorrow and it appears that the Pirates need to bring a bathtub full of ice to dump on Soriano! I couldn’t believe my eyes when I looked at the box…Now watching the Astros – Rangers and rooting for an AL team. Now that seems weird since the AL doesn’t even play baseball…..hmmm
The Rangers, by the way, had a great pregame tribute for our kids overseas. It was great to see and maybe the rest of the teams in MLB might do the same…...
crazymountain - May 17, 2008
Has any reporter asked Lou for his assessment
of Theriot’s SS defense? I remember Lou made some comments about needing defensive improvements a while back and nothing really changed. I don’t think he was talking about Theriot then anyway. Where can I go to find the follow-up questions that were asked after Lou mentioned the team’s defense?
I ask because I know there are mixed opinion’s on Theriot’s defense, from statistical descriptions of suckitude to Brenly’s breathless praise. I wonder if Lou has given his opinion (beyond the obvious opinion that’s declared by running him out there nearly every inning of the season).
DGU - May 17, 2008
Good points regarding the Qs for Lou on the D...
...and I thinl Al’s post makes a valid point (as he has previously) that perhaps Cedeno needs to get more of a look at SS to see if the fielding is improved?
Cedeno has above average range and unless we still have the “speed grass” at Wrigley Stadium, courtesy of Dusty and Juan Pierre, then your starting SS ought to be able to gobble up allot of balls. IMO, both Theriot and Cedeno are utility players but you gotta get the most out of both and with Soriano stroking in it we can afford a bit more D in the lineup. Given the way Cedeno has been stroking it, the O may not miss a beat either. Cedeno warrants a greater look.
DudeVf11 - May 17, 2008
b/w 06-07
for his career Cedeno played 184 gms at SS. He committed 27 errors for a .960 FP. Theriot sure as heck isn’t Ozzie Smith in the field, but he’s played 150 gms at SS with only 12 errors, a .979 FP, which is above the league avg. Cedeno may have somewhat better range and per game has had more assists, but their POs are pretty much the same, I’ll gladly sacrifice an assist every couple games on avg for my SS not to airmail a ball into the stands or muff an easy grounder every few games. Theriot, as Brenly repeatedly says, is surehanded. anyone who thinks Cedeno is going to be a defensive upgrade will be disappointed, IMHO.
that said, I’d like to see him in the lineup more, but Theriot and DeRosa are hitting too well to sit at the moment.
PrincetonCubs - May 17, 2008
Good analysis (and I still want Lou's view)
The one thing I would suggest is that it’s a whole lot easier to calm an overexcited arm than to add range or strength to a 2B. Cedeno should be able to improve his problems, but I don’t think Theriot can. And again, this is assuming that Theriot has “problems,” but what Al saw today, I’m seeing, too, and often.
DGU - May 17, 2008
Okay, but what you'll willingly sacrifice is...
...simply your opinion; we don’t really know the value unless we compare the impact of the two. Looking at errors doesn’t tell you a lot of the story – that’s because what it tells us is mostly a function of how often a player gets to a ball. Rangier fielders who aren’t as sure-handed end up looking worse as measured by fielding percentage without being any less valuable.
Same thing with looking at putouts/assists – without knowing how many balls were hit in that direction, we have no idea what that means.
And as far as saying Cedeno may have better range, I don’t know where “may” comes into it. Cedeno also has a better arm, so when he ranges to make a play he actually has a shot at recording an out. Theriot’s defensive skillset is best suited at second base, and he is costing us runs – and, possibly, wins – out in the field.
The defensive metrics that I use tell me that Theriot has been one of the worst defensive shortstops in the National League so far this season. (Keppinger and, of all people, Jose Reyes have been worse.) So long as he continues to be an above-average hitter at the position, he retains some value. (Even then, his offensive contributions are being overrated, because of his lack of extra base power.)
My biggest worry is that because he’s surehanded, his defensive inadequacies are being overlooked – it a lot easier to notice a guy who’s screwing up when getting to a ball than to notice a guy who isn’t getting to as many balls as he should.
cwyers - May 18, 2008
Also...
... it’s clear from observing Cedeno - without numbers - that he’s a totally different player defensively than he was two years ago when he played the bulk of the year as the starting SS. He deserves more playing time.
Al Yellon - May 18, 2008
you've definitely seen more of Cedeno than I have this yr
so I have to take your word for it, but I haven’t seen this “improvement.”
Even stepping up the fielding stats argument to the range level, the RF/ZR argument I’m not sure where you get that “Theriot has been one of the worst defensive SS”; he’s 9th in ZR and 9th in RF out of all starting NL shortstops so far this year, right at the middle.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=8&season=2008&seasonType=2&split=82&sortColumn=rangeFactor
Also:
Theriot’s career ZR/RF at SS: .844/4.09
Cedeno’s: .841/4.03
So it is far from established statistically that Cedeno has better range.
Theriot also has the 2nd highest fielding % out of any of the current starting shortstops, whereas Ronny is at a stunning .960 (small sample size, of course. but it’s a deserved small sample size.)
I remain unconvinced.
PrincetonCubs - May 18, 2008
Far from established statistically?
You can watch it on TV! Ronny Cedeno has more athleticism at the position than Ryan Theriot. He’s quicker and has a stronger arm. Ryan Theriot is more surehanded. You don’t need stats to know these things, you need stats to price them.
Range factor is close to useless for any baseball played after 1958, where we have play by play data. ESPN uses STATS, Inc. zone rating, which has established methodology problems when it comes to handling out of zone plays – which, since Theriot’s liability is his lack of range, is an issue.
I use the Hardball Times ZR data, which at least publishes BIZ, Plays and OOZ seperately. Then I compute a plays +/- stat like so:
(Plays minus BIZ times league ZR) + (OOZ minus BIZ times league OOZ per BIZ)
That can be converted from runs to there. (Thanks to Jinaz for his methodology.)
Okay, so maybe you don’t trust my ability to make defensive metrics. Fine. But just watch him play, and use a critical eye. Watch him dive for baseballs at the edge of his range, and from there figure out the extent of his range. Watch him throw over to first!
cwyers - May 18, 2008
I agree to disagree...
...I don’t know whether Theriot is the more steady fielder, nothing to convince me yet, as a throw that is beat out by a runner will usually not get ruled as an error. We are talking 98% v. 96% for a subjective statistic known as errors, which is why range may be a much better estimate of fielding ability and why the scouts may be better suited for evaluating fielding in terms of arm strength.
At SS, I’d prefer the stronger arm and greater range over a guy who doesn’t get to balls and who short arms. But neither of these players is exceptional fielders, and given Theriot’s limitations the Cubs won’t be stepping on any toes by seeing whether Cedeno will perform better.
Realistically, the Cubs still believe Cedeno has some value and some upside—not great but some. It’s a very low risk decision to see if that can be brought to fruition now.
DudeVf11 - May 18, 2008
I just checked out Cedeno and Theriot RF and ZRs on ESPN site...
...they are the same player essentially defensively based on performance to date. This isn’t a hot button issue with me as both of these guys have shown that they can be utility players. Theriot’s CS is up this year and didn’t he have back spasm issues, so maybe he’s slightly slower a foot this year so far, but over their careers their RF and Zrs are essentially the same at SS.
Neither one is a particularly heady player in my book. For a position that might otherwise be called a weakness, we are getting some great production from 2 bench guys. I’d have no problem playing Cedeno more but Lou certainly doesn’t trust him to that level yet.
DudeVf11 - May 18, 2008
ditto
I wrote up the same stats in my post above, and I agree with what you’re saying. as I’ve said, I’d like to see Cedeno some more, but not at the expense of the other guys playing as well or better. as for my eyes, well, got a long look at Ronny today, and I guess I don’t see this “clear” range/arm advantage over Theriot. the stats don’t show it, my eyes didn’t provide any clear resolution, so again, I remain unconvinced. Ronny had a nice RBI knock, though.
PrincetonCubs - May 18, 2008
Soriano
My favorite part about this hot streak is that every time he gets to bat, Ron Santo just gets really excited, you can just vision him getting giddy in the booth
Musicdude10 - May 17, 2008
Can't say that I blame him..
as I am truly excited about getting to watch him tomorrow…he is an amazing talent…
crazymountain - May 17, 2008
I'm truly excited to not see Marquis perform tomorrow
Ugh, Hill needs to hurry up and start pitching better.
NittanyCub - May 17, 2008
I was listening to the Padres pre-game show today and the radio guys
commented on the Cubs game and said that Soriano was still the stroy of that game. Phil Nevin apparently played with Soriano and he said the guy was a super teammate and that Soriano had an infectious personality in the clubhouse in a great way. That’s the first time that I had heard that, I just assumed with all of the difficulties convincing him that he should play the OF, that the guy was aloof and a tool, like Edmonds, LOL, but apparently that’s not the case.
DudeVf11 - May 17, 2008
The only thing that bothers me about that
Is Nevin’s reputation
Shanghai Badger - May 17, 2008
I've been listening
to Nevin’s pre-game comments since he joined that crew and he tends to be pretty honest in his remarks—both positive and negative….he has this “I really don’t give a sXXt” attitude. He lets it fly. This gig is just a lark for the guy, it’s obvious he is doing commentary for the hell of it and cares little about what somebody might think.
Nevin’s not afraid of offending anybody, unlike others who pretty much toe the company line on that station. They’ve only been critical as of late, because of how obvious the situation is.
So, I’d take Nevin’s assesment at face value here.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - May 17, 2008
Everyone always assumes that Sori is
an ass but that seems to be anvthing but true. He had one incident with the Nats and everyone assumes that he is a bad apple. Cub fans ssem to want to take their wrath out on him because of his wanting to bat leadoff, but Lou seems to know what he is doing. This seems to be a case of fans jumping to a conclusion because they don’t particularly like the situation. It’s really kind of silly and childish to assume that he is a bad guy because he wants to bat leadoff.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
I don't want to take my wrath out on Soriano at all...
...but based on limited information I assumed that a player who sucked at 2B and who was being moved to a position for his betterment and the TEAM’s, was a tool for resisting such a move in the manner that he did. Apparently he isn’t a tool, I am sorry and good for Soriano!
Dear Soriano,
I apologize.
But can you explain to me why you must bat leadoff? It seems to me that your spectacular power would be better used at 3-4 spots. Would it be okay if you changed places with D. Lee in the lineup? You might find yourself a fan favorite for such a move that would better the team—a win/win if there ever was one.
Sincerely,
A maturing Cubs fan
DudeVf11 - May 18, 2008
Soriano has a reputation around baseball as one of the smartest ballplayers out there...
...and a great clubhouse presence. Where his reputation to the otherwise came from I have no idea – you look at what guys who played with him have said, and it’s all glowing.
cwyers - May 17, 2008
I tthink it's only a few
frustrated cub fans who think he is a bad guy.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
I don't think Jay Mariotti is frustrated or a Cubs fan.
Nor do I think that the gasbags over at WSCR are frustrated or Cubs fans.
It’s all of the useless vultures out there that have really perpetrated this line of thinking – you have this whole cottage industry of people who are paid to do nothing to talk about sports and have absolutely no knowlege or insight to share. They’re not scouts, ex-players or any sort of expert, they have no sources or reportorial insight and they lack any form of familiarity with stats and figures. The only thing left for them to talk about, then, is the off-field stuff, because they have no idea what happens on the field.
It’s all the more true because they follow all sports and multiple teams, and poorly at that. Jay Marriotti has to be able to provide ill-formed opinions about the Bears one day, the Cubs the next, and the Bulls thereafter. And all of his material is the same, because it doesn’t matter what the actual sport is – he knows nothing about any of them!
cwyers - May 17, 2008
I couldn't give a tinker's damn about mariotti or
those hacks at the score. Most of the wrongheaded comments about Sori are from these frustrated knuckleheads who don;t know what the hell they are talking about. They are just trying to sell papers or get listeners talking so they perpetuate this crap. The same guys that were trying to run him out of town last week will be kissing his ass this week.
Many of the guys in the media in this town are an embarassment. They don’t follow the nuances of the sports that they are supposed to cover and the just spout opinions. Many of them don’t even go to the games and they will even admit it on the air. Mariotti thinks he is a bigshot because he is on ESPN everyday but he just comes off as a clown act with Woody. I have not use for his ass.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
Yeah, I don't give a tinker's damn either!
By the way, what is a tinker’s damn anyway?
daver - May 17, 2008
I'm not sure, but it sounds good. Us older
guys use expressions like that when we get riled up!
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
At tinker's damn
Is almost as much as “a fiddler’s fart”.
JohnM - May 18, 2008
how does it compare
to “a fat rat’s ass”
gary varsho - May 18, 2008
I usually say...
...”a rat’s furry ass.” But I think, from now on, I’ll combine the two and say, “I don’t give a fat rat’s furry ass.” My personal journey continues…
daver - May 18, 2008
I think a lot of the bad rap is unfair
But I’m surprised to hear the rep is that he’s one of the smartest ballplayers. I have yet to see him even make a break twoards first on a dropped third strike.
Shanghai Badger - May 17, 2008
I'm not talking about "baseball smarts."
In spite of his accent, which a lot of people can’t get past, Soriano is supposed to be a very articulate and well spoken person. Now, maybe it doesn’t translate into baseball IQ or whatever – and how often does a dropped third strike result in a player taking a base, anyway?
But he’s supposedly a very intelligent person. Here’s a story for you – when Soriano was in the Yankees farm system, he would go out to the mound whenever the catcher, Victor Valencia, went to talk to Kats Maeda. Valencia would tell Soriano what he wanted to say in Spanish, and Maeda would talk to Soriano in Japanese, and he’d translate for the two.
cwyers - May 17, 2008
Well,
Players don’t reach that often, but it does happen. I was at Wednesday’s game when Lilly reached on a dropped 3rd—which led directly to a 2 run rally. Soriano doesn’t even twitch twoards first. At least make the other team make a play . . . you never know.
Thanks for sharing the anecdote, though—that’s pretty cool.
Shanghai Badger - May 17, 2008
All the talk of Soriano being a selfish player
is just BS, in my opinion. Last year, he volunteered to play CF. As I have said many times, he has always said that Lou is the manager and it was his job to do as the manager says. He would hit 8th if Lou asked him to. And I have never read, heard (as much as us NM hicks are allowed to hear!) of ANY of his teammates speak badly of him. DeRo has played with him on both the Rangers (thank you Tejas for beating Houston 2 straight!!) and here and just has great praise for both his outstanding abilities AND his great clubhouse presence.
crazymountain - May 18, 2008
I don't know if it's selfish
But I do think there is a psyche issue . . . I still think he should be pulled in the late innings defensively when the Cubs have a lead, but Piniella’s statements after the May 1 game make it sound like he’d respond poorly to that. I won’t get into the lineup issue because that’s been discussed to death.
Shanghai Badger - May 18, 2008
I'm on the fence
about Soriano. He struck me, especially offensively, as a selfish player. Then I read this in today’s Tribune and warmed up a bit toward him.
Emelie - May 18, 2008
there ya go.
He’s a good guy, and a good player who does the best he can. If the biggest complaint we can have about him is that he doesn’t break for first on the dropped third strike…
Well, I’ll overlook it for four homeruns in two games. :D
drewishdrewid - May 18, 2008
I've seen/heard a lot bigger complaints than that
And to me it speaks to a lack of fundamentals. It bothers me that no one on the coaching staff can correct that – are they afraid they’ll “lose” him?
Soriano gets torched on this board when he’s struggling; now he’s being deified.
The truth is somewhere in the middle.
Shanghai Badger - May 18, 2008
In the past seven seasons, 2000-2007...
...there have been 331 times a runner has struck out and still advanced to first base. 318 of those occured on a wild pitch/passed ball (which was how Lilly got on base earlier this season), once a batter reached as the catcher threw out a runner trying to steal on the play, six times there was a force play at home as the runner on third tried to score, and six whole times a batter managed to reach first base on an error by the catcher, presumably dropping the ball in the first place (although it’s always possible they compounded their mistake via a throwing error).
I don’t think it’s worth worrying over.
cwyers - May 18, 2008
Wow! That
says a lot about the guy. Very nice read.
sue369 - May 18, 2008
For the record
I actually meant I don’t like the way he played defensively. I like how he plays offensively a whole lot :)
Emelie - May 18, 2008
Remember his first spring training with the Cubs last year
He showed up early and seemed very happy to be with the Cubs. He’s not the greatest fielder in the world but his arm can make up for some of the mistakes. Like most things in life you have to take the good with the bad. I don’t think he plays bad from having a bad attitude….
LT - May 17, 2008
Oh, well, we can't win 'em all.
Though this one could and should have been.
Well, tomorrow is another day. Let’s win the home series against the Pirates!
Fraggin Judge - May 17, 2008
I was at the game
Figures, my first game of the year and the Cubs, usually unbeatable at Wrigley, find a way to lose.
Anyway, aside from the bat breaking episode, my wife insists she saw Zambrano trying to stretch his shoulder, as if it were hurting him, during Rothschild’s visit to the mound. But I didn’t read anything about him having an injury, so I guess he’s OK. Let’s hope so, anyway.
danimal15 - May 17, 2008
it's possible
he was verging on cramping, or didn’t get a good warm-up.
drewishdrewid - May 17, 2008
Z...
... was just fidgety all day. Might have been some discomfort but this is what we’ve seen out of him when he’s rattled or upset, walks around, pulls at things, etc… He was uncomfortable all day and Zambrano can’t seem to overcome that.
dmlichte - May 17, 2008
Derrek said Z
was uncomfortable before the game. He didn’t say if it was the flu or anything like that.
sue369 - May 17, 2008
Double Z......
He put is interests ahead of the team today….... Z….you’re paid to PITCH…..!
James031 - May 17, 2008
uh...
wow. that’s quite a limb you’re going out on, there…
The bad at-bat was late in the game for him. He wasn’t in control all day. Ace pitchers have bad days. Better now than against the Astros.
drewishdrewid - May 17, 2008
Z is paid to pitch which is why Lou needs to stop sending him up there as a pinch hitter (Friday). First off he’s not even our best hitting pitcher (Marquis), but we’d all regret that interesting piece of managerial strategery if Z takes an inside fastball off his pitching hand.
Reign him in Lou!
15% - May 17, 2008
Quite right
although I love to watch him hit. I always have nightmares about him getting hurt in some meaningless pinch-hitting role.
danimal15 - May 17, 2008
this isn't the American League.
Z is paid to play baseball. That means he pitches, because that’s his position, but it also means he hits.
And he hits pretty good.
I’m not excusing him, by any means, but he is supposed to hit.
drewishdrewid - May 17, 2008
You shittin' me, James031?
I miss a lot being here in New Mexico but Z a selfish player????? No Way.
crazymountain - May 18, 2008
Agreed
Only every 5th day. Pinch hitting Z is stupid.
15% - May 17, 2008
Let's face it, Z just didn't have his good
stuff today. It happens to the best pitchers. Sometimes a guy can gut it out and win a game when he doesn’t have his good stuff, but this just wasn’t the case today. They say a pitcher only has his really good stuff about 15-20% of the time. He just wasn’t able to get it done today. He’s human.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
By the way, here are Soriano's numbers...
...over the last seven days:
.500/.517/1.107
1.107 is his SLUGGING, incidently. His OPS in that time span is 1.624, OPS+ of 326.
cwyers - May 17, 2008
You know what's crazy is that Soto's #s are almost as good
but no one is noticing that right now because Soriano has the HRs. More on this in the weekly recap tomorrow.
DGU - May 17, 2008
Jason Marquis
He’s on thin ice right now. If he fails tomorrow it may be his last start for a while, IMO
Chanman25 - May 17, 2008
Lou's going to have a TV installed in his office just for Jason.
daver - May 17, 2008
LOL!!!
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you, Marquis. Hit the damn thing!"
daver - May 17, 2008
His last start couldn't come
son enough for me.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
Just wish we had Hill around
making this oh so easier!
Rudey - May 17, 2008
Yeah, I'mm gettinga little concerned about
Hill. He obviously has not pitched like he is capable and these injury rumors can be red flags. I hope he can get his act together and get back in the rotation.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
What I see is Hill's back stiffened up on him....
a stiff back is a symptom of something else. Not good news…..
crazymountain - May 18, 2008
I want whoever can pitch better right now
and right now that is Marquis even though that is not saying much. Watching Hill walk everyone was maddening. I rather let them hit it than give away free passes.
LT - May 17, 2008
I wouldn't be suprised to see him have a
decent start tomorrow. He is due to have a good one. He really wasn’t bad his last time out. he just had one bad inning.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
Marquis WAS that bad last time.
Nearly every out early on was absolutely smoked, just fortunately right at defenders.The “one bad inning” just happened to be when his good luck ran out; he got hit really hard the whole night.
That said, I hope he pitches well tomorrow as we’re all stuck with him regardless.
ohboy - May 17, 2008
I was speaking in relative terms to
his other shitty outings. He has pretty much sucked all year from ST. The point I was making was that wishing him to pitch worse is not going to help the Cubs cause.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
That's the sort of thing that annoys me.
If the Cubs couldn’t tell by now that Jason Marquis is a mediocre pitcher, then they need to fire all of their scouts and analysts and most of their coaches. There’s absolutely nothing they can learn about him in one more start or eight starts total this season that they couldn’t have figured out in his past seven starts, or his 33 starts last year, or hell, his 177 career starts.
They’re so quick to think they have guys like Pie figured out, and yet they can’t seem to get a bead on guys like Marquis.
(That said, for precisely those reasons I DON’T think he’ll pitch his way out of the rotation tomorrow. If nothing else, Hart and Marshall probably won’t be ready in time.)
cwyers - May 17, 2008
The cubs are in a trick bag with
Marquis. His contract is a real drag and he really hasn’t pitched well enough to warrant a look by other teams. There are some really bad pitching staffs in baseball right now, but even with that the Cubs really are going to have a tough time getting rid of him without eating a big chunk of his contract and they probably have been instructed not to take on that kind of debt with the sale looming.
As long as he keeps sucking on the mound his value is not good enough for someone to take a flyer. Mybe the Yankees will take a shot if the fall further behind in their division.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
I don't think
they don’t have him figured out.
I just think they don’t know what they can do with him.
drewishdrewid - May 18, 2008
Marquis
Well, Marquis is Marquis. We should stop trying to expect him to be Josh Beckett. He could possibly give us 200 innings, 10-15 wins, (I know that looks doubtful right now) with an ERA around the league average. Not that bad for a #5 starter. I think that we’re playing so well right now, our expectations are a little skewed.
Bump Bailey - May 17, 2008
Seam Marshall pitched 5 scoreless innings in AAA today...
Just thought I’d mention
cowsarecool220 - May 18, 2008
They spent plenty of cash on Marquis
he’s gonna be here until he implodes. We should all hope he doesn’t. Hill doesn’t seem to be on his way back very soon.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - May 17, 2008
I don't think the Cubs have
a prayer of getting rid of him anytime soon.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
I don't really understand all the people hoping that
Marquis will pitch terrible. That will not make him go away and doesn’t help the Cubs win. I realize he doesn’t seem to have the greatest attiude, but I hope hit pitches a perfect game tomorrow. Go Cubs Go!
LT - May 17, 2008
I agree. I never want to see one of our
player go out and have a bad agme. If he pitches well now it only enhances his value and that is the only way the Cubs are going to move him. If he stinks, he could lose the game for us. He is owed too much money to be released, so we will be stuck with a bad pitcher.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 17, 2008
So do we all
but the fact is that he is a BAD pitcher….
crazymountain - May 18, 2008
I'm not disputing the fact that he stinks.
I just don’t want his putrid smell sinking up the rest of the team.
willie mays hayes' gloves - May 18, 2008
Wow...
I didn’t watch the game, so I didn’t know Z broke a bat over his knee. He really shouldn’t do that, and I think that now that Lou apparently said he didn’t like it Z probably won’t do it anymore. He was frustrated, but he needs to control himself. He was doing so well this entire year with all the emotion controlling stuff. I was waiting for his bad game to happen because he wasn’t going to keep being fantastic the entire year.
Soriano is amazing sometimes. I wish he was less streaky and could spread his greatness over a longer period of time.
sparkles721 - May 17, 2008
There is a story about a Leopard and his spots.....
crazymountain - May 18, 2008
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