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Tuesday Morning Stuff That Doesn't Fit Anywhere Else

Miscellaneous thoughts and facts while we await tonight's game:

  • In both a post buried in the comments yesterday, and in email, I was told that the White Sox individual tossing a ball around while it was raining Sunday before the game, and making obscene gestures to the bleacherites, wasn't Ozzie Guillen; it was relief pitcher Octavio Dotel. Apologies to Ozzie -- and Octavio... geez, think a little, will ya?
  • "Sources say" that Jim Hendry has the green light to spend "what ever it takes" to get starting pitching after the All-Star break. This comes all the way from Sam Zell. Will it be C. C. Sabathia? Maybe, but it could be anyone. In any case, here's more proof that the Cubs are going all-out to win this year.
  • Since I -- and most of you -- never hesitate to criticize Joe Morgan (justifiably so), credit to Morgan for leading the charge to get Ron Santo into the Hall of Fame:
    "I played against him, and when you look at third basemen, he was the best third baseman of his era," said Morgan, the Hall of Fame second baseman and ESPN broadcaster. "I thought that's the way you judged it. Every year I voted for Maury Wills and Ron Santo. Those are my first two guys. To me, they were both a no-brainer."
    Well, Maury Wills isn't really a Hall of Famer, but again, if Morgan can help get Santo over the top next winter and into the Hall, good for him.
  • Lou Piniella has learned some stuff, not the least of which is that Micah Hoffpauir isn't an outfielder:
    Micah Hoffpauir's left-handed bat is a valuable asset with Daryle Ward out, but, like Ward, the rookie is not good enough defensively to play left or right field on a regular basis. Hoffpauir looked tentative on a few balls that landed in front of him on the artificial turf at Tropicana Field, and he didn't start over the weekend against the Sox.
    I could have told Lou that after watching him play "tentative" in the outfield during spring training. The article goes on to say that Hoffpauir could be trade bait. He doesn't really have much value, so if Jim Hendry can deal him, more power to Hendry.
  • Finally, a site note. I have received a few emails saying that the game threads have occasionally gotten a little contentious and personal. I just want to remind everyone of the paragraph you all read -- and agreed to -- when you signed up for your BCB account:
    When posting at this blog, please follow this one simple rule: Before hitting "post" to post your remarks, ask yourself: "Would I be embarrassed to say this in front of strangers who were physically present in the room with me and could respond to my face?" If the answer is "yes," then don't post. BCB encourages and welcomes all opinions, no matter how strong; however, personal attacks, vulgarity, and other uncivilized forms of expression are not welcome. Thanks.
    I don't think that kind of civility is too much to ask. Thanks again. Let's win tonight.

0 recs  |  427 comments

Comments

First!

Sorry, never got to do that before. Go Cubs!

2nd is the new first

times are changing ma’aan! I hope this is the year for Santo and the Cubs.

"other uncivilized forms of expression"

That must mean political expression! :)

Is it possible...

...knowing Joe Morgan, that he’s thinking of someone else when he talks about Santo?

Game Threads

While I haven’t been in them much this year, in the past they typically do get a little rowdy. The main reason I stay out of the game threads now is actually because they load extremely slow and it takes forever to scroll to the bottom of the page once there is about 150 comments or so.

Game Threads

When I’m at work, I have no issues. On my laptop at home, extremely slow. When it’s that slow I go to my profile and shut off the live update feature. Then I just refresh as I used to do on the old site. I do find I’ve gotten used to the live update though. It’s a lovely feature when not in game threads.

Maury Wills ?!!!!!

This Maury Wills? Is he serious?

Apparently so.
maury wills and his beautiful career .660 ops

give him a little credit did steal 100 bases one season aside of that I have no clue what Joe Morgan is thinking.

Agreed.

He held the SB record for 13 years. That’s about his only distinction. (He was a bad manager, too.)

Having lived through

his managerial career I can only say that calling him a bad manager is an understatement. Very diplomatic of you, Al.

Wow, longest sig line ever.

Nice gesture, though. R.I.P George Carlin.

That's what I thought.

But I, and probably everyone else, read it.

Didn’t know it was Carlin, though. Nice gesture.

Well............

..........he did sire Bump Wills!!

Ooops...

didn’t see your post…lol..

He did father Bump..

for what that’s worth..

Are we talking about your dad?

Because now I am all kinds of confused

Check here............

http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/willsbu01.shtml

...........for more background.

I know

i was trying to be funny. obviously i failed… again.

Well, at least you've learned something.

And learning is half the battle.

LOL...

I get it….Well played cubbiegirl..:) Should I change my name to Bump Jr.?

well at least someone laughed

:-)

Good, But Not HoF

If Wills had won 3 more Gold Gloves, had about 400 more hits, or walked 400 more times than he did, you could make a case for him. If he had stolen about 200 more bases, you could make a case for him. He simply does not have the numbers for the HoF.

Not even...

If we added in the stats of Bump and the other 4 Wills’ to ever play MLB to Maury’s would he be HOF worthy.

This and That

First, who are these sources that indicate Hendry has the big green light? Al, are these sources, the same that said the Cubs wouldn’t get a certain 2B’er from a certain team that just happens to be in ChiTown today?

Second, Joe (I think I’m perfect) Morgan is leading the way for Ronnie? Who’d-a-thunk-it? I saw that article this morning and could not believe me eyes. I do have to wonder how paring down the vote from “up to 10 out of 20-25” to “up to 4 out of 10” really improves Ronnie’s chances of getting into the exclusive-this-is-our-tree-house-and-you’re-not-invited-club. I’m skeptical and won’t believe it until Ronnie gets the call. It’s just the HoF’s way of screwing something up, you know like the Negro league heros. Yeah, vote all these guys in – decades late – then “forget” Buck O’Neil…

Third, what’s with the game threads and larger posts in general? It’s like this new site is waaaaaayyyyy slower than the old one when the number of posts gets into the hundreds.

Nope, not the same sources.

But the sources that told be about TTSNBN not happening turned out to be correct.

Dude that second paragraph about green-lighting Hendry...

...sent a few shivers down my spine, not gonna lie. Al’s been talking about the whole year, but clearly this year is different. From a 25 year old, I feel like this is how our team SHOULD feel damn near every year – like the championship is ours for the taking. But apparently management hasn’t felt the same throughout the years. Either way, I’m glad that those in charge recognize that we have something special here.

Dan

If true

I would stop thinking Zell to be the root of all evil, and just consider him the root of most evil

What's the cash cap?

What is the maximum amount of cash that can be dealt between teams in a trade without a waiver from the Commish (a commish who I dare say would love the Brewers to get CC)? That’s the biggest chip the Cubs have. Honestly, what in our farm system could possibly appeal to the Tribe for CC?

You know..

if the Indians were prepared to allow time for a contract extension on a Sabathia trade, I’d say not much. However, if they’re going to stand firm on not allowing it - making C.C. a rental - then I would think a number of scenarios could come into play. Off the top of my head, I’d imagine that Jose Ceda and Jose Ascanio would be a nice starting point for conversation.

You're exactly right on the first point

if there is no negotiation window, the Cubs have a lot better chance of getting C.C. I don’t think Ceda and Ascanio are enough to start the coversation. I think Gallagher starts the conversation.

I wonder though

Even the rental price has high—more than the compensation picks they’d receive just for holding on to him until the end of the year.

ugh

“has to be”

Zell knows

a winner brings a higher price than a loser. He didn’t make all that money being a fool.

Zell probably knows the old addage of

you have to spend money to make money. It would seem to be pretty appropriate here.

Random question...

...regarding Hoffpauir specifically, but all players generally:

How hard is it to “practice” and thus “improve” your fielding? I mean, we regularly see guys take batting practice, hit off a tee, do video study of opposing pitchers and their own swing….but what does a guy do to improve his fielding from a practical standpoint?

I mean, you could hit him flyballs, but that only works if you’re not hitting them TO him, but rather someplace away from him so he has to play it like real game conditions, right? Is it as easy as just having Hoffpauir shag balls in the outfield during batting practice, pretending each ball hit is under “real” game conditions? That way he tries to get a jump on the ball, dive or play if off a hop, and get it into the proper cutoff man?

Just something I was wondering…it just seems easier for infielders to practice groundball fielding and turning double plays that it does for outfielders to get “real” practice.

Being an athlete

You either are or you aren’t. He’s obviously athletic but he doesn’t have the same level of natural talent and skill that would allow him to improve dramatically such as a Rick Ankiel. How does that guy go from being a SP to a starting CF with good speed, pop and a cannon of an arm to throw out baserunners? He’s a good athlete.

Plus...

... he’s 28 years old, and very unlikely to develop this sort of skillset at that age, with no experience, and to thrust him into a starting OF slot on a pennant contender is really unfair, both to him and to the team.

Anybody can shag fly balls.

You can do it all day long. Hit right to you, to your left, to your right, from sun up to sun down. But there’s little things you pick up that, as Al said, a 28 year old is probably too old to learn now. Things like reading the ball off the bat so you can get a jump, knowing your pitcher’s arsenal and what pitch he’s likely to throw in different counts to different types of hitters and where those hitters are likely to place the ball. Fundamentals and raw talent are key to this game.

+1

Reading the ball off the bat ASAP is soooooooooooooo important. Knowing your pitcher, also important. I still do that do this day – at my age – in 16” softball in CF, even at 1B.

There is a certain level of physical talent that no amount of learning will replace.

Hoffpauir can’t learn how to be a more athletic runner or have a stronger arm.

The best outfielders

are instinctive. You can work on improving your reads of fly balls, but if you don’t have the instincts you won’t be a good outfielder.

Word.
Outfielders +1

Anyone can catch a ball hit at you, but there seems to be so much movement on the balls lately its the gappers and down the line that would eat him up.

MH swings a good bat and would be an asset to most teams off the bench or in the AL as a DH.

I hear MH is a big R&R fan, would love to play in Cleveland. ( ???)

My wife could practice driving all day long and.....

well I think you know the rest

Thanks for encouraging some civility Al

There were a few FanPosts yesterday as well that turned into personal bashing sessions. Let’s talk baseball and just ignore comments that we don’t like eh? No need to post a put down everytime someome you don’t like adds a comment. Ok, i’m done. Go Cubs.

Smugness Is Ugly

Nothing ruins a baseball forum or blog more than condescension and holier-than-thou attitudes. This one is unique in that it’s mature, good-natured, and populated by people that don’t take themselves too seriously. Please let’s keep it that way! For my part I am steering clear of game threads where I’m apt to turn into said douchenozzle.

+1

I’ve taken a game-thread break myself, though I do sometimes read them the next day, which has lead me to notice an interesting occurrence: a couple of the nastier posters, who are usually only around during losses and/or meltdowns, seem to come back in the thread a couple hours after the game, once most everyone’s gone, and post multiple snarky replies. Classy.

Yeah, they have been a tad mean lately...

...but honestly, what’s to complain about when we are 20 games up? Not much, at least in my eyes.

Dan

Yep.

This season has been great thus far, for sure.

Blue Mike will find something

He always does

yes but...

lately Blue Mike will post a comment that isn’t controversial… and people will still feel the need to bash his posts, just cause they don’t like him. that makes for sucky threads IMHO

Well said Ben

I haven’t said anything but to be honest it’s been gettting mighty old

+1

Maybe the dictionary needs to be updated with the word “ignore.”

Since this is the "Stuff That Doesn't Fit Anywhere Else" Post

via Deadspin, The most succinct take on Mariotti I’ve ever seen:

The second-worst thing a lifelong newspaper sportswriter can do is become the person who grows to hate sports because they’ve covered it for so long. The worst is realize that and try to cash in on it. Jay Mariotti, ladies and gentlehumans.

Game. Set. Match. Winner.

That Was SPOT ON

Great stuff Gary. I’ve thought the same of Jim Rome – does he really like the field he’s covering or just using it for self-aggrandization?

Rome's different case, IMO.

He loves sports because it’s serves as a vehicle for his enormous ego. He’s guy that realizes his luck and his situation and uses both very well. I think he likes sports, but hates athletes.

Rome is all about Rome

Just like a ‘shock-jock’ he says whatever he needs to say to get attention, which equals cash. Show biz, folks. Please don’t believe ANY talk show host, be it sports or political actually believes everything he or she says. Conflict = ratings (or circulation, in the newspaper biz) = money.

Since this is about a little bit of everything...

Reed Johnson is probably going to the DL retroactive to June 17 with “back stiffness.” He was scheduled to appear (as he does every week) on the Mike North Morning Show on 670 AM in Chicago, however did not call him. RJ is the likely candidate to be sent to the DL in order to bring up Sean Marshall to fill in for Zambrano while he is on the DL. Reed was probably not very happy about Hendry moving him to the DL, however this fulfills a few needs…

-Too many outfielders… needed to get rid of one
-Eric Patterson has been playing well, and can play center, or left and fill in for Soriano if needed late in a game
-Much needed left handed started finally on the team who has looked good at AAA

Hopefully this is all temporary, Marshall produces, Reed isn’t hurt that bad, and we keep this streak alive!

It's probably a good idea...

... considering RJ had back surgery a year ago. Why risk further injury if the team is winning and there’s a suitable temporary replacement?

has anyone heard about the roster moves for sure?
If RJ goes DL

does the platoon in CF become
v.RHP
LF Patterson
CF Edmonds
RF Dome

v. LHP
LF Murton
CF Dome
RF DeRo

Or will Edmonds get a shot to hit v. LHP?

I quite

game threads over a year ago. It’s just not worth weathering the knee-jerk reactions and idiotic behavior of so many. I don’t care about the language or anything particular, I just think those ledgejumpers and haters ruin my enjoyment of just following the game’s progress. I usually get off BCB and just follow the game via MLB or Yahoo while emailing with a friend or two that are doing the same thing.

(This reply belongs above) Re: Maury Wills

I really do believe that merit for HOF candidacy should go beyond the stat sheet, so if Joe Morgan thinks Wills was a special player, more power to him. Take Andre Dawson for example. I constantly find myself trying to defend his candidacy based on his cannon arm alone, but people just want to look at his bbref page and disregard anything beyond the numbers.

Dawson's career numbers...

... in the context of his era, were far better than Wills’ in the context of his.

You do have to look at Wills’ numbers in the context of the 1960’s, a very low-offense era, and that he played many years with Dodger Stadium, an extreme pitcher’s park in those days, as his home park.

The .720 OPS he put up in 1962 doesn’t look very good to us, but it was at least league-average then.

It is nice to see Morgan making the context point.

That’s going to become increasingly important aspect of HOF voting, given the inflated numbers of the so-called “steroid era” and the slight offensive drop-off we’ve begun to see coming out of it.

Also the SB...

he played in an era when the SB wasn’t as prominent as it was in the ‘70s and ‘80s, but he led the league in SB every year from ‘60-’65, and was top 4 in SB from ‘66‘69. He has an MVP award as well.

He probably would be considered more of the “fame” argument for his baserunning, and he probably is overrated based on the fact that OBP was largely ignored back then in favor of AVG, and as Al said he played in a park and in an era that deflated his stats.

It also helps to understand

that shortstop was not considered an offensive position then but a defensive one. The two top shortstops of that generation were Aparicio and Wills, neither one of whom were real offensive threats except on the basepaths. Also they transformed the game and made speed a factor, a movement away from the three run homerun theory of baseball.

Gold Gloves

Maury Wills did win 2 Gold Gloves, but Aparicio won 9. Those 9 Gold Gloves along with Aparicio’s steals have gotten him into the HoF. Had Wills won 5 Gold Gloves to go along with Maury’s steals, he would have more HoF credibility. I believe Dawson’s 8 Gold Gloves should be taken into consideration for his HoF bid. IMO, that should make up for the low OBP of the Hawk. However, more than 25% of the HoF voters evidently disagree with me.

I'm surprised by two things--Morgan and Micha

My understanding had always been that Morgan was a leader in NOT voting for Ron Santo and maybe even in increasing sentiment agaisnt him…if what’s posted here is true, then I can forgive a multitude of Joe’s sins.

I disagree with the analysis that Hoffpauir has very little trade value. I suppose it’s a relative term since he’s not really a power hitter and really is either a DH or 1B…..but I see a REAL good team in Anaheim featuring a starting 1B with a very similar skill set. There should be a slot for Micah in the AL, the man can hit, he’s lefty and he’s a pretty fair glove at first.

Morgan

I don’t know how much honesty there was there, but Morgan made some complimentary comments and talked openly about the Hall of Fame credentials of Santo in This Old Cub. That movie was four years ago, so Morgan has been promoting Ronny for at least that long.

I know Hoff seems a lot like Kotchman at first glance,

but, one, Kotchman is 25, and broke in at 23; Hoff is 28 and broke in at 28. Also, check out their minor league numbers:

Kotchman, minors, career (5 seasons): .325/.401/.493/.894

Hoff, minors, career (6 seasons): .281/.338/.453/.791

Kotchman projects to be a better hitter than Hoff, and he’s also three years younger, which is a factor that just cannot be ignored.

That said, I do think Hoff has some value to an AL team, maybe Seattle, who are done with Richie Sexson, or Cleveland, who will need some one to alternate 1B/DH duties with Garko while Hafner is out.

There's really no point...

... for Seattle to trade for Hoffpauir. They’re done this year and though I haven’t looked, I’d guess they have to have a 1B/DH in their own system who’s at least as good, if not better.

Cleveland, again—what do they gain?

Maybe you're right about Seattle,

but Cleveland gains a stopgap until Hafner gets back, if he gets back. He jsut a setback in his rehab, according to Yahoo! Sports, so they may be looking for a guy like Hoffpauir. I’m not saying Hoff is going to draw interest on his own, but as part of a package of players, there would be some value there for an AL team, given the DH possibility. Seattle is desperate to add power, even doubles-only power, because they’re not getting squat from Sexson or Vidro, and Cleveland will need someone to spell Garko. They’ve been using Blake and Martinez, but those guys need a rest once in a while, too, as they have their own full time positions.

Yeah, it'd have to be as part of a package.
You think Cleveland would consider C.C. for Hoff and Marshall or Gallagher

I’d hate to part with Gallagher or even Marshall, but if one of them, Hoff and a prospect or two would get us C.C., it might be worth it. (I would assume they’d want an arm to replace C.C. ....)

They're pretty stocked on pitching

They need offense.

How about Theriot!

KIDDING!

How 'bout Pie?

[/sarcasm, lest anyone doubt]

Yeah, "he sucks".

Someone should make a fanpost about this….j/k, j/k…

Consider? Sure. Do? No.

You’re going to have to either outbid the other contenders’ farm systems or come up with something better than what Cleveland thinks they can get with the two high draft picks they would get if CC leaves as free agent.

And IMO, I think Cleveland puts a pretty high value on their own scouts and farm system, so I think they’d be perfectly happy to roll the dice, ride CC for the whole season, and get the two draft picks.

You’re going to have to WOW them to get CC at deadline. And for the Cubs, WOW means somebody like Marmol, or Soto. And Hendry won’t do that. and he shouldn’t.

I agree if it takes Marmol or Soto

I don’t know, I was just thinking out loud, I guess. It’s hard to come up with something that doesn’t give away all our top prospects that would be appealing enough to get him.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t give up some of the farm—I’m all for that. Just not too much of it.

CC for Hoff and Gallagher or Marshall

I’m pretty sure that Cleveland would laugh Jim Hendry out of their office with that proposal.

Cleveland is not the Pirates...

but we laugh pretty hard now about the Lofton/Raimrez trade(steal).

Seattle

Just wanted to add that Seattle is rumored to be taking a look at Jojihma (sp), their former catcher,, at first if they do indeed release or trade Sexson. I believe Jojihma’s(sp) deal was 3 yrs. at $24 million and he’s played his way out from behind the plate this year.

Cleveland is an interesting option for Hoff, especially with C.C.’s name being thrown around

No to both

Morgan has always supported Santo’s candidacy as he’s supported most big stars of the 1960s (see Wills, Maury). I think he also supports Gil Hodges

And comparing Hoffpauir to Casy Kotchman is wrong. First, Kotchman is three years younger than Hoffpauir. Secondly, I don’t think Hoffpauir would hit .300 over a full season in the majors like Kotchman.

The problem with Hoffpauir’s trade value is that every team has a guy like him. A career slugger who can’t play any position other than first base. The only thing he’s got going for him is that he’s left-handed. Heck, other than him being right-handed, we’ve got a second Micah Hoffpauir in the minors with Jake Fox.

Too many “Hoffpauirs” on the market for Micah to have much, if any, value.

The best current comparison is

Jack Cust. A long term minor league guy that could hit, but not good enough in the field. He finally signed with an AL team in need of a DH and he has some success. Even though Cust tore through AAA pitching, teams couldn’t find a home for him.

But Hoffpauir isn't Cust

Cust was putting up OBP well over .400 and knocking out 25-30 HR a year in the minors for five seasons in AAA. Hoffpauir’s OBP was in the .350 and he could never stay healthy enough to hit 25-30 HRs in a minor league season.

So Hoffpauir is a poor man’s Jack Cust. And think of all the trouble Jack Cust has had getting and keeping a major league job.

Surely someone will take a flier on...

Hoff, since he’s hit pretty well while he’s been up. He’s not an outfielder, but he might be a decent DH or 1B for someone.

My concern is we get rid of him and then DWard continues to struggle as he has most of this season.

Exactly

spare parts are sometimes just that but Hoff is a pretty valuable left handed bat to have waiting in the wings. Like you said if Ward would get hurt again and we trade Hoff, who is our next left handed specialist?

Great point

Best moves “sometime’s” are the ones you don’t make

Al are you responsible for banning or is SBNation?

Eamus-Catuli was way over the line the other day and I’m sure got many complaints and yet was on the next day’s thread.

Just wondering what the protocol is. Warning first?

I have received no complaints about him.

If anyone has any, I need to hear about it directly. Send specific links.

I flagged him too

I’ll see if I can dig up the links for you

Not sure if this goes directly to his comments....

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2008/6/19/554776/overflow-thread-2-cubs-vs#6866579

Those comments are very nice...

I know i appreciate them! Thanks Eamus!

that thread is hilarious and disturbing at the same time

there are a lot of crazy people on here during Cubs losses.

I know I flagged a few eamus-catuli posts a few days ago...

along with a few others… it was a nasty thread the 3rd game in Tampa Bay…

i flagged several ones of his

they were all way over the line.

FYI...

... I just saw all the flags. He’s been warned. If it happens again he’ll be banned.

I didn't know you needed to be emailed

to know about this, i thought as admin you’d get notified about the flags. I’ll keep that in mind in case it happens again. :-)

Yeah, I was wondering that myself

What’s the point of flagging if no one sees it?

I guess I need to take a look at those more often.

I can see them, but I don’t get an automatic notification.

There was a bunch of additional garbage at the end of that thread

if you’re bored later, Al, feel free to take a look… make sure there’s no kids in the room though, it gets a little nasty

Al, two FYI's

First, on the small issue of Joe Morgan, I got a personal email back from the person I BCC’d you yesterday and it basically stated in part; “thanks…duly noted and forward…the outcry by your fellow Cub fans was heard”. —MAY I SUGGEST THAT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO SHOULD CONTINUE TO SPEAK OUT TO THE ESPN COMPLAINT LINK IN THE FAN POSTS. Keep it civil, keep to the facts specific to Morgan’s ongoing characterization’s and story telling. My thinking is that the Cub organization is not too pleased either.

As for the bigger issue: Spending for a WS caliber roster. Cubs are at $120M which is roughly $20M or so below the East Coast level of WS perennial contenders. My thinking is that the Cubs probably have three players or roles they could add, two on the margins and one key player to have possibly the best playoff roster in ‘08.

Margins: Infield utility player, switch-hitting veteran bat off the bench, outstanding glove=Omar Vizquel. He is somewhat expensive but after the All Star break he will cost less than $3M for 2.5 months or less and he will not qualify for the automatic option in ‘09. Acquiring him will not be terribly expensive and he could solve the late inning defensive need at SS. My guess is that this might only cost the Cubs Murton and a Advanced A player of mid-level prospect status.
#2 Late-inning LOOGY Rumor had it that the CO ROX might be willing to part with LHP Fuentes the sling-shot lefty who made the All Star squad last year. He is a free agent and he also could be had for the right price lets say for a Cotts.

On par this might be overspending but to close up any weakness, especially short series or situational late game tactics this could add a lot to the club’s chances.

Key Player: Naturally this is the top of the rotation starter in the same vernacular as what Schilling, Alexander, Cone, Sutcliffe or Johnson did in respective years. To me analogy is falls on Schilling & Johnson’s experiences when Schilling went to AZ or Johnson went to Houston, both near the top of the games and during the mid seasons. Thinking through the scenario’s in both cases those players that were traded were did not become huge stars. That said who is the prime target? CC Sabathia of course but Oakland will be serving up Harden and Toronto dealing AJ Burkett. Cubs will have to overpay dearly for CC in that the Yankees, RedSox, Dodgers, Rays and possibly Cards and Brewers might be seeking to deal. That all said Sabathia is the player that puts the Cubs in the best roster position, the other two or three are good deals, less costly but killer app’s. So what will it take? My best guess looking at the other trades as the price and the inflation of contending teams.
Gallagher (no doubt), E Patterson (ready now), Colvin (Pie is hurt and a project), then two others, Donnie Veal (top level prospect) and Ceda (a final top level prospect) and the last two replace the lost FA draft choices. CC’s salary pro-rated would be like Vizquel’s and ultimately would put the Cubs at around $130M

Glad to hear about the Morgan comments.

Maybe we’ll get somewhere.

Persistance pays off.
It was frustrating to read in yesterdays recap thread,

some unwillingness by others to even try. We HAVE to speak up.

Gallagher, EPat, Colvin, Veal, and Ceda seems an awful lot

....for a 3 month pitcher, especially when Cleveland says they won’t allow any team to negotiate with Sabathia for a contract extension. Or did you mean some combination of this list?

I don’t know how we get rid of Gallagher. Too much upside, in my opinion.

I agree completely

I don’t want to sell the farm to get a veteren pitcher. Especially with the way baseball is trending toward youth.

If we can get a good deal, thats fine. But with as awful as the AL Central is, I don’t think Cleveland is going to be out of it for a long time, if at all.

I think the trade deadline’s going to be pretty bare, unless you want to go after Bedard. And everything I’ve heard about Bedard is that he’s a headcase who likes to take himself out of games. Plus Seattle gave up a LOT to get him, they’re going to want to restock their system.

I've heard that too about Bedard.

Clubhouse cancer, struggles to go more than 5 innings. Haven’t we seen enough of his ilk?

You'd think so
I wouldn't give up all our top prospects for a "rent-a-pitcher" like Sabathia.

And who knows, Cleveland is just 6.5 games out of first and may want to keep him longer. Same holds true for Harden and Oakland. Burnette might be available, but he doesn’t seem to be much of an improvement on what we already have. As for Fuentes, no how, no way. I’d as soon have Cotts or Eyre as him. He’s been just as shaky as either of them.

Fuentes

... Fuentes has been pretty good this season. I’d love to see him in the Cubs’ pen. Are you sure you aren’t thinking about Manny Corpas?

Fuentes

has downright nasty stuff when he’s on. But with the D-bags slide even the Rockies aren’t that far out of the race… they aren’t going to give him up yet.

Perhaps...

I was just remembering his 4 consecutive blown saves last year. You’re right, he is having a pretty good season this year. If he can be had, why not?

There was a report

from Ken Rosenthal that the Cubs were interested in Brian Fuentes, but he corrected himself a day later and said he had made a mistake. (A refreshing admission from Robothal. That’s why he’s the best these days.) But it sounds like Bump didn’t get the correction.

I was only replying to Ivy Walls comment above...

I didn’t know if he was available or not. However, that is refreshing indeed to hear that Rosenthal corrected himself. I’ve always liked him too.

Noooooooooo!

Not Daisy Fuentes!!!

Yes! Daisy Fuentes!!!

Oh, you mean pitching?!

I don't think Hendry would make a trade for CC unless he was signed....
+1

Hendry will suprise us all & bring in someone who will help us now & in the future.
Probly none of the big names being bantered about hear.

We don't need Omar and his cost

but thanks for playing.

If we're going to go hog-wild with spending,

I’d take Dave Roberts off of SF’s hands befor Vizquel. Vizquel looks done to me. Roberts, though, would give us value of a real pinch-runner on the worst-case end and on the best-case end, he and Reed Johnson could potentially platoon in CF with the small grounds in Wrigley. (I wouldn’t play him over the Edmonds we are seeing now, but Edmonds is fragile at this stage of his career.)

So the "actions" part of the site goes directly to SBNation?

I’ll look up some links….

No, it goes to his profile.

But unless I hear about it, I wouldn’t necessarily look up any specific profile.

I got the links.

Thanks. This will be taken care of.

Thanks a bunch, Al.
I was at the Sunday game..

And it was Dotel and Ozzie’s son playing catch. After they were done playing catch, Dotel acted like he was going to throw it to the RF bleachers, than the LF bleachers and ran off with the ball, acting like a tease.

He then got to the foul line and made a gesture that you see in the bedroom..

I saw all of that.

From the LF corner it looked like Ozzie. Thanks for the details.

Ya, I was surprised.

And Al, you were at the Friday game I assume, right?

Yes, I was. Why?
Security

Did security do anything about the WS fans throwing trash on the field after the Aramis walk-off or the guy jumping into the batters eye?

Don't know, because I left fairly quickly.
Wait but did you see the guy shagging balls

who gave us all the finger when running in from the OF on Saturday? That was also classy!

WOW

“He then got to the foul line and made a gesture that you see in the bedroom”

For real? Damn, what is up with that team lately???

they're classy, huh?

heh.

As I've said...

... don’t even acknowledge this stuff. That’s what they want. Ignore them. That drives them crazy.

thats were being the blind one comes in handy

never notice any of that crap.

I really want to make the t-shirt

from the game thread the other day..

See you next week – we’ll bring the rats – you bring your teeth!

I couldn't believe it either.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

All this after his 2 gopher balls on Friday.

LOL. Smart guy.

It does surprise me though...

I remember how this Crosstown series used to really get (it seemed anyway) into the CUBS players heads and not the other way around. And… even when it did… it only affected their play on the field (unfortunately – lol) and I can’t remember any of the Cubs players pulling some immature crap like I’ve heard about this past weekend. It’s unfortunate.

Soriano

We were walking down Mich. Ave and Soriano comes driving by revving his Aston Martin engine. Pretty funny. And Shawn Marion was sitting a rown in front of us, reppin his Cubs hat.

When did you see Alfonso on Michigan Ave.?

Just curious—I work near there.

Sunday around 1. I was walking to Nike Town.
Cool, thanks.
He wasn't driving this?

Photobucket

Wow

The last game I was at over memorial day weekend, Soriano had his Bently at the game.

Kenny and Ozzie

Do they get a free-pass on what they said after Friday’s loss?

Which part? lol
Lol.

Everything. Classy organization. Guess that’s where the fans get it from.

These guys?

They always get a pass; they’re music legends!

Ouch - painful historical post

I was actually at the game when Ozzie did the 7th inning. Guy could barely walk up the ramp before killing the song.

What a painful day. I cant even remember if the Cubs won or lost that day

Ozzie Osbourne

That clip is still on youtube. Funny stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdwOoinuJi0

Ozzie is an embarrassment to musicians everywhere.....
People actually confuse him with musicians?
Unfortunately, yes.....

my guitar mags are full of Ozzie…...

Does he actually play? Can he?
He can't even stand up or speak!!
They present his songs in tablature form...

but I don’t think many guitarists actually think he is a musician. Most people understand he’s just the vocal front man…Rhodes, Lee, Wylde, and Vai were the guys who madethose songs “go”....

Exactly.

And don’t forget Tony Iommi—I’ll defend the first five Sabbath albums with my life.

Yeah, I guess it's debatable...

...whether he’s a “musician.” He’s worked with some great ones, though.

Wating for SWL to pop in..

LAMO
LAMO?

Laughing Amongst Many Others? A group thing?

Something like that

my dog certainly thinks I’m hilarious… although I think she may be the only one.

Laughing Alone (but) Maniacally Outloud

Ha.

But laughter is better shared.

And you’re never alone on BCB. ;)

Unless you're blue mike

than you’re always off in LF by yourself.

NO...he's a 2nd baseman...remember?

I wonder how “scrappy” he was….hmmm.

Wonder if he was the wonder mullet hamster

thing’s predecessor.

True. Ten points.

Come to think of it, so was Bonds.

Maybe it's punctuated.

Laughing ass, mine, off.

Nah. I can't do Yoda

or Yoda I cannot do or whatever.

What she said, that is.
wssti
And the BCB Dictionary grows.
ha

bet that’ll be fun to explain… wth does “wssti” mean.

Simply put: the evolution of a stupid joke.

Or, Star Warsification of an Office anti-joke.

heh

yeah, that’ll clear up everything.

Couldn't be simpler.
Danks

Kids a very good pitcher, but the league should do something about those comments he made.

Why?

I’d rather they do some work to ensure consistency among the umpires’ strike zones, stop umps from openly confronting managers and players, and do more to curb fan interference on balls in play. I could care less what the players have to say. Sticks and stones.

Couldn't have said it better

There are bigger issues than policing what players say about parks.

I agree wholeheartedly.
Well, I've given a lot of thought to the suspensions handed out by MLB.....

Position players suspensions are measured in days. Pitcher’s are handled the same, 5 days instead of 5 starts. So, why don’t they just make the suspended pitchers punishment something like…..3 starts throwing with the opposite hand!!!!!!

Hoffpauir

His career minor league numbers are .281./.339/.454. His recent AAA numbers look better because he spent parts of 5 seasons there. He’s a 28-year old 1st baseman.

He is not going to add much value in any trade. Teams are not going to look at 19 major league AB’s and think he is all of a sudden a .300 hitter. Comparing him to Kotchman is ridiculous.

This overrating of him is starting to remind me of the Sam Fuld love-fest last winter.

+1

Made the same remarks here earlier

only you made them more accurately and i daresay more reasonably.
But Fuld

is a triple-threat! He’s scrappy, hunky and Jewish!

so is Ben Stiller
I'm not sure

Ben is scrappy.

Well, he did nail that chick with a volleyball in "Meet the Parents."
nor "hunky"
You can say that again.

He's also really, really, good looking.
you forgot

ridiculously

charitable too

he’s got a center for kids that can’t read good

and he warns us that...

“Anyone can die in a tragic gasoline fight accident”

Did you just say "But Fuld"?

Geez, I’m so Immature.

Jewish and Catholic

They celebrated Christmas and Hanukkah.

He's had 45 at bats, not 19....

...with 14 hits. 6 doubles. I’ll take any guy off the bench who hits .400, whether he’s a career minor leaguer or not. He’s also 12-27 when he’s STARTED a game. You don’t think a team would take a flier on that?

I wouldn’t call it a love-fest, but you can’t deny he’s contributed and contributed well to this team. Everyone wants to complain that “he’s playing over his head”, but they’re called “career years” for a reason. Lightning in a bottle, baby.

He did say

That Wrigley was a s* hole, and that he was bringing his nose plugs to drown the smell of urine.

Who made the great comment here yesterday...

... about how he should keep his noseclips because the smell of defeat has to be worse than the smell of urine? That was brilliant.

That was the best poster ever

Sue

Meh.

Old ballparks smell. I refuse to take this stuff personally. It’s a ballpark. If he wants to say that stuff, and that’s how he feels, so be it. I’ve never been in the visitor’s clubhouse, so I can’t say he’s wrong, and another guy made much the same observation a couple years ago: Jim Edmonds.

For guys that work

2/3 of the year and get paid a buttload of money for playing a game, they sure bitch a lot.

I don't know about you...

but I bitch a lot too….it’s just that my wife doesn’t print in in a newspaper, publish it on the internet, or broadcast it on national TV. Everyone complains.

Everyone poops, too

but you don’t hear me making a big stink of it.

It's true! I've got the book and everything!
That book singlehandedly potty trained my 2 daughters...
Somewhere in the world there's a guy (or girl)

who, when hearing the phrase “Excuse me, I have to go to the bathroom” can respond with “Tell me about it, I wrote the book on it!”

No, I’m not jealous. Much.

LOL, mine too!
Does the book work for the Elderly?
Sure. Or you could try these:

I bitch about things all the time

I just bitched about rich guys playing a game bitching. Although, if a microphone was stuffed in my face and would be broadcasted to millions of people and then put into print for millions of more people Id shut my mouth.

Maybe you would, but maybe you wouldn't hammer

Its not like anything you’re saying here is remotely false.

I remember one of the strikes years ago when the avg salary was ONLY $2M or so a year. One of the guys had the audacity to talke about not being able to plan his retirement if the players were on strike too long. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Like Eddie Murphy said once in his standups about someone rich not being able to make ends meet. “You’re rolling in cash, the ends are meeting like a M-F’er”.

Besides, who gives a rats ass what

any ChiSox player says anyway? It’s imbreeding from all the way at the top, starting with Kenny. See the Mariotti article about him the other day? This is the TEAMS’ GM SAYING THIS SHIT.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mariotti/1015873,Mariotti062009.article

If the GM talks smack and the manager is a certifiable loon, the owner is greener than envy, the fan base for the most part is a self-pity party, what else can be expected from the players than that kind of crap? From remarks and antics from Valentin a few years back to the jackass that catches for them now and now the punk that said this…it never stops.

I’m just glad the Cubs organization kept to the high road and hope they continue to do so. The best thing ANY ONE OF US as diehard CUBS FANS can do is totally ignore the goings-on from the junior circuits’ representative 9 miles south. Like my late father used to tell me, “son don’t give them the satisfaction”.

Yup.

Oh, and we can beat them when we play, too.

Well, it has been historically true, White Sox management

being rotten from the top down. After all, the earliest I can think of is 1919, when Mr. Comiskey failed to pay his players what he promised them, bonuses if they won the pennant. The gambling crowd made sure they got their bonuses…...

That may not be true

that’s from “Eight Men Out” and later historians have been unable to find out where Asinof got that information and he didn’t cite it and never explained where he got that from. Essentially, there’s no concrete evidence that Comiskey ever welched on a bonus he’d promised. (The bonus to Cicotte if he won 30 is really shaky—it simply doesn’t fit the facts of Cicotte’s career and salary.)

It could have happened because there is a lot of evidence that Comiskey was a cheapskate of the first order. On the other hand, so was Charles Murphy, who owned the Cubs in the Tinkers-to-Evers-to-Chance days.

Don’t forget though, that Bill Veeck owned the White Sox for a few years.

I've never seen "eight men out", tried but found it boring.

Actually got that bit from (can’t cite it because I’ve read a lot about the man!) something on Meyer Lansky….

The movie isn't as good as the book.

Read the book.

Isn't that usually the case though.
The Devil Wears Prada

Movie much better than the book.

The exception that makes the rule.

OOh, their big bad pitcher

insulted our park. I don’t care. Why does that matter?

He said it to insult us, and I can’t even get a fig about it. He lost thats enough payback for me.

Who cares

Ozzie Guillen is crazy like a fox and says things for affect. It’s his way of motivating his ballclub. I can’t worry about the guy in the other dugout.

very soon

the motivation will wear out, and he’ll be gone. Who cares though right?

"Edmonds doesn't scare me......

I’ll always pitch to him.” Seems like he walked Edmonds intentionally…...after that was said.

Not worthy of a fanpost

but I was checking the O’s site in anticipation of tonight’s game and came across this article about everyone’s favorite unmentionable player.

F.Y.I. on Roberts so far for 2008

BA: .290 / 5 HRs / 29 RBIs / 33 BBs / 51 Ks / OBP: .372

Let's go one step further and get it out of the way:

Brian Roberts: .290/.372/.469 (.841 OPS, 125 OPS+), 21 SB

Mark DeRosa: .285/.373/.438 (.811 OPS, 111 OPS+), 3 SB

Anyone having any second thoughts? I must confess, Roberts’ numbers are better than I expected. (Full disclosure: I haven’t been following his performance very closely.)

Nonetheless, I’m guessing Sean Gallagher wouldn’t be on the team right now if the Cubs had, in fact, acquired BRob. So, particularly in light of Rich Hill’s fall into the seventh circle of minor league baseball, I still have no problem with Hendry walking away from this trade. The Cubs offense has been just fine.

and our pitching staff

is happy with gallagher, who i really like.

Agreed

someone said it above, the best deals are sometimes those never made. IMO the combination of DeRosa and Gallagher is helping the Cubs win more games than the Cubs would if they had Roberts, but without Gallagher.

I agree.

And with Z going down Hill might’ve been the one called up for these two starts.

I was for it then when I thought

it was a mechanism to get Soriano out of the leadoff spot. Nothing against DeRo. For his numbers, I sort of expected that level. I just don’t know his defencive comparison to DeRo at 2B but the SB’s are intriguing. He’s on pace again for near 50.

Yeah, the stolen bases gave me pause, too.

That’s pretty impressive. Otherwise, their numbers are somewhat similiar. I’m a little bit surprised Roberts is outslugging DeRo, but I guess that could change pretty quickly.

If anyone out there can do a quick and dirty stats-based defensive comparison, that would be interesting, too.

Comparing apples to oranges

Roberts was to be broghtin to bea leadoff man.
No knock on DeRo but those sbs would be real nice on this club.

Ron Santo is not going to get in the Hall

It’s become pointless to further debate the subject. All it does is serve to get Ron Santo depressed. Santo is clearly a borderline case. Fact is he never played on a great team, never made the playoffs and had a reputation for being a prick. If I had a vote then I would let Ronny into the Hall if for no other reason then there are a number of other borderline cases already in (e.g., Phil Rizzuto, Nellie Fox). But I think that ship has already sailed. Santo’s legacy is as a very good ballplayer. But not a great ballplayer. So for the sake of Ron Santo lets move on and let him enjoy what he has in life.

You don't think he can get in with the 'new rules', eh?

I was thinking (OK hoping) maybe he juuuust might get there… finally.

Geez...thanks for popping the balloon of hope we all had MDBNIU....

umm...

is that rabbit trying to do what I think he’s trying to do?

yes, yes I think it is

Poor confused little bunny.

Hope he didn't buy it dinner first.
bet that was exciting dinner converstion

what do you mean you don’t like cedar bedding for your cage?

Must be where those rabbit shaped balloons come from.....
Yeah, that's also where the expression...

...”doin’ it like rabbit-shaped balloons” comes from. Little-known fact.

And, I will add that to my "little known fact" book....
Watching this

gives new meaning to the saying “[humping] like rabbits”

Lesson of the day

I think you’re all smart enough to put this one together.

Santo has a flag flying above Wrigley.

I’m happy with that.

Everytime I see the speech he made

where he said that “This is my hall of fame”... I get a little misty. Gotta love that guy.

Definitely.

Loved seeing that on Cubs Forever.

Any one get the book?

I haven’t had a chance yet and hadn’t heard if it was any good

I picked up a copy

It was a fairly interesting read, though it got quite repetitive after awhile. There are some very cool pictures, and for those of you who are lazy, there is a DVD with the book that bits and pieces of most of the interviews in the book.

And Ty Cobb

was a saint? It’s not the “good guys” HOF…..Cobb may have killed somebody, if we are to believe the reports.

Your case, (if you have one) isn’t accurate. On his stats alone—he’s in. Who gives a damn if he didn’t play on a great team?

You’ve just written this to provoke.

I agree, the HOF is NOT for "just the good guys"

no matter what ESPN says. It is for great baseball players. Period.

re: And Ty Cobb
You’ve just written this to provoke.

That pretty much sums up why MDBNIU is here.

I bow to you, Great One...

Mdbniu, once again your wisdom is awe-inspiring. Selfish me, I never stopped to think about how much I was ruining Santo’s peace of mind by saying he should be in the HOF…..I’M NOT WORTHY!!!!!!! And, Sorry Ron, I will NEVER speak of the HOF again, now that I know your quality of life has been SO affected.

Your boy Harden was mentioned

in Sullivan’s article today…take it for what its worth.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080623-lou-piniella-chicago-cubs,1,7301097.story

Anyone else listen to Dave Kaplan's show on 'GN last night?

FWIW, he had a Bay area sportswriter on specifically to comment on the prospect of Rich Harden coming to the Cubs. After establishing that Harden is, in fact, a very talented young pitcher, Kap kept trying to pin the guy down on whether, if he (the sportswriter) was the Cubs GM, he would make a trade for Harden.

Finally, at the end of the interview, the guy basically gave in and confessed (in so many words) that he would NOT make such a trade BECAUSE OF HARDEN’S INJURY HISTORY. He said something along the lines of “prospects are gold” and the risk of the deal would simply be too great.

Hmmmm.....

seems that a lot of us already said that….....mdbniu, whadda think?

Santo

was the best third basemen of the generation before Mike Schmidt. If Schmidt hadn’t come around then there would have been no argument about Santo belonging. Even Bill James knows he belongs, the fact that you don’t says more about you than it does about Santo.

IMHO, Santo was the best 3rd basemen who played ball from 1940 till the ‘70s.

Everyone of your points on Santo is wrong

The team he played on and whether or not they made the playoffs doesn’t pass the giggle test when one considers that three others from the same team have been enshrined. Santo still holds more fielding records than any of those three—and if one considers Bill James’s win shares analysis, any hint of him not being one of the VERY best players in the 60’s also disappears:

“If Bill James’ metric is to be believed, at his peak Santo was simply the top player in the National League. In 1967, he led the NL in Win Shares with 38. (Not that anyone knew it at the time.) He had four more Win Shares than Cardinals first baseman Orlando Cepeda, the unanimous NL Most Valuable Player. In Santo’s prime years, 1964 to 1967, he exceeded 30 Win Shares each season. During the 1960s, he was one of only three major leaguers to reach 30 or more Win Shares in four consecutive years. The other two were Hank Aaron and Willie Mays.” ESPN.com March—2005

Someone else mentioned Cobb-so nice guy/bad guy also has zero to do with it. In my view the NY media has been his biggest blockade-he has always NY and never hidden that fact.

Just some thoughts.....

Wills actually put the steal into baseball, made it a weapon, changing the way the game was played and making it possible for Brock, Morgan, Coleman etc. to actually make their teams better. However he is NOT a HOF candidate. Santo was probably the 3rd best at his position, only Brooks and Clete Boyer were better, in my opinion. I think he deserves a shot.

The ugliness of the Tampa blow-out game thread speaks for itself. Al, you need to read it. UGLY…..gives the Brennaman’s of the world ammunition.

Hoffpauir is NOT a LF, IS a good LH bat. I worry about Ward being able to fill that role with a serious and recurring back injury. And I think he would be more valuable as part of a package to get a front line starter. I agree with Fanzone, we lose Hoff, Ward DL’s again and then what? Broussard?

Gallagher and Pie HAVE to be untouchable. They are young and greatly talented.

And, I have often said, with the team for sale, we are going to be able to spend what we have to so we can WIN the WS. The value of an already very valuable franchise would go way up with a WS win attached to it. It is really just simple business.

In fact it was Aparicio

who

actually put the steal into baseball, made it a weapon, changing the way the game was played and making it possible for Brock, Morgan, Coleman etc. to actually make their teams better.
He stole 59 which was a big thing when he did it. Willis came later and did have larger numbers.

Pie is 'untouchable'?

Really???

He is only 23 and hasn't really had a chance.
Don't know if he's untouchable

but we’d really be selling low on him right now.

We'd only be selling low

if Pie can flourish under Lou’s management style. I think Pie can (and Hill can’t). But if I’m wrong, now may indeed be the time to sell on Pie.

Pie is hurt.

I dont think he is going to be traded based on that alone.

I don't know about anybody eslse

but I really hate night games after an off day… I’m bored. :-)

I do too......
Ditto

No day games at ALL. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO…

+1

Same here. I wish KOW or her husband would do another “Let’s Get Together” fanpost. That kept me laughing for days. :)

That fanpost never existed.

And, if it did, I categorically deny any participation in it.

Area 51? What Area 51?
There is no spoon?
Take the red pill
I saw that post

glanced behind the curtain and ran away. Very weird vibe from the place

Well, now I have to look it up........
I believe

Al erased it to protect the innocent.

and if he did

its definitely for the best. i was there early and it was weird.

Ahhhhhhhh.......

now I REALLY want to read it!!!! Musta been good!

You guys crack me up.

you guys crack me up. I think she did one after that and put her cell number in it, but it was deleted pretty quick.

I saw that one too

she was asking for people to text her stuff, wasn’t she about the cubs game? or somethig like that

She wanted updates on Big Z's injury.

Actually, she wanted attention, but I digress…

yeah

still.. it was the strangest thread ever. i thought i was hallucinating. who does that?

Well, if anyone wants to let me know

the next time she posts something, my cell is…

LMAO

that is too funny

Yep, I can confirm that sighting.

However, like its predecessor, all evidence has now been eliminated.

Anyone hear any updated news regarding Soriano's injury?

I thought he was to be re-evaluated in the last couple days to see when he might be returning

they did an x-ray

to check and make sure the bone hadn’t shifted, the last i heard he was on schedule and would return in the 6 wks they expected. I’ll try to find that link.

+1

That’s what I heard as well

here's the link

the info on Fonzi is down in the middle. Here

Pie and Garcia

Does anyone know what actually happened to Felix? The extent of the hand problem? And I had heard that we were working Freddy Garcia out down in Mesa, any word on how that is going??

Haven't seen any update on Pie, just that it is a soft tissue injury....
Did he have a "soft tissue injury"...

during Spring Training too?

poor guy

i thought we’d agreed to leave that one alone.

Twisted Tissue Injury
Was he hurt in Spring Training?
NEVER MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God, how could I forget THAT? OUCH!!
Its amazing what the mind will block out
I think blocking that out was necessary, for sanity's sake!!!
he's hurt again

in mesa with a hand injury that they’ve been very non-specific about so far

The softest tissue of all, my friend.
Aight

Thanks for the knowledge.

no problem

:-)

Felix Pie just guaranteed he won't be involved in a trade before July 31st

His market value was already in the toilet. And now he has an apparent hand injury.

You don't think he did it on PURPOSE...

so you? Gasp!

If he did it while untwisting, it may

keep him from being apparent…..

That is sterously truthful
If you ask me, the whole idea is just....nuts
All this talk of testicles

probable makes Anthony Bourdain hungry.

I thought it was his real hand.....
BREAKING NEWS: Felix Pie will never hit major league pitching!!!

(Until his hand heals.)

His apparent hand?
Yes, his apparent hand is what's been holding him back.

His other two are fine.

Did one of the other two get twisted too?
No, they're both fine.

They are, after all, “actual” hands.

I thought it was between the second & third immagined figment.
Imagined figment

not “immagined” figment.

OHHHHHHHHH... Let's Get Together!

Now I think I remember the post we’re talking about. The one that said everyone’s invited over for BBQ or some such crap??? Sorry, running slow today (oh OK, this WEEK – lol)

LOL

yep that one. it was bizarre

Right, that one...

...which never existed. Didn’t happen. Move along, please.

I posed this before in a fanpost, but no reply:

Anyone think Soriano’s injury could have lasting mental repercussions a la Dawson’s “faceball” or Sammy’s shattered helmet? Those two guys weren’t the same afterwards, most likely due to an involuntary fear reaction caused by the trauma of the event (there’s a psychological term for that). I’m a little worried because Soriano REALLY crowds the plate and starts his swing very early compared to most guys. That and his streaky nature to begin with… I would definately have him take his time on a rehab assignment before facing MLB pitching again.

I would think not...

...based on how much he wants to get back so quickly. At least that’s my hope. He appears to be ‘thicker skinned’ that Sammy in the regard. But, in reference to your comment, did Dawson’s production really ‘fall off’ after that hit he took to the face? I don’t recall that.

I don't think he and Lou will make the "no rehab"

mistake again… and I don’t think a hand injury compares to a fast ball to the head in terms of fear. You never know, but I don’t think it’ll be a big issue.

I hope the difference is in the hit.

Soriano was hit on the bat, his hand just happened to be between the ball and the bat. Dawson and Sammy’s issues had more to do with the ball coming at the head.

I think you're referring to post traumatic stress disorder.

I think, right now, he’s more frustrated than anything because he was just getting his stride (literally) back with his legs. Maybe he’ll be more likely to back away from inside pitches, but I seriously doubt this is the first time he’s been beaned before. He’ll be alright.

He been hit 61 times in his ML career...

and considering the way he stands on the plate with his back to the pitcher….and the way he “loads” his swing with the big leg kick…I’m surprised he hasn’t gotten hit more.

No kidding.

Truth be told, I was far more worried about the leg injury than this one.

i hope he's been running

and gaining confidence in his legs again b/c thats more key to me

Shouldn't be a problem.

He JUST started running hard and stealing when he was hit. That was a great sign. Plus, the silver lining to this injury was that it doesn’t affect his legs and all, and he can continue building them up during these six weeks.

thats what i meant

that he was working on his confidence in his legs while out with the hand. :-)

My concern is...

he get almost all his power from his wrists….hands injuries really seem to suck the power out of players…ask Derrek Lee…on second thought don’t. Lee has always said the wrist injury was never the reason for his lack of HR last year.

But it's the hand, not the wrist.

Wasn’t that what everyone was relieved about?

yeah

its the long ring finger bone between your knuckle and your wrist.

Hand...Wrist....

yeah…not the same, but think about the torque and stress put on the hand as the wrists “roll” through a swing.

just sayin’

I'm with ya.

Only time will tell.

He can still bunt, though.

especially with 2 outs in the 9th
I had a dream once...

...that Dusty had Adam Dunn bunt in the 9th inning, down by one, with two men on. I then dreamed that Dunn tried to bunt twice, failed, decided to take a hack at it, and hit a that-son-of-a-bitch home run, aka a walk-off win.

Oh, wait, that actually happened a few weeks ago. Good job, Dusty.

Dan

OH NOEZ!

THAT...JUST...HAPPENED
I suppose he "can" theoretically...

...but we all know damn well he won’t.

I've got the weirdest feeling

that his first pitch back is either gonna be extremely high and tight and make us all flinch…or a bomb. A low and outside pitch leading to a strikeout will be so anticlimactic.

agreed

we’ll just have to wait and see

Exactly

I believe this is just a cracked bone whereas DLee had sprained/torn ligaments/tendons in the wrist. I’ve done both and broken bones are much easier to heal and bounce back from.

ligaments/tissue injuries

are always tougher to ocme back from.

Maybe not for nerves, but for overall batting "rhythm" etc.
I hope he's less afriad of the baseball...

than he is of the brick wall

Maybe he could start hopping when he swings.
He practically does....
omg

joe morgan just sort of praised the cubs on van pelt’s radio show.

course he backed straight back and said “the national league isn’t very good, but the cubs are the best in the nl”

Maybe someone's forwarded him our complaints.
Does he do the computers?
Not if Sandberg does.
He does have a point about he NL....

I just looked up the stats…and the NL is only playing .500 ball against itself.

"Yeah, that's why we kick your butts in football almost half the time!"
NL isn't very strong

it was just the phrasing. The Cubs are the best in the NL, but the NL isn’t very good.

Reread SWL...
i did and got it

:-)

Right on.

Oh, and the Cubs aren’t just the best in the NL… :D

It was just how he tripped over himself

to keep from calling the Cubs good.

I wish van pelt had asked him about Ryno. That would’ve been great.

"You know, for my money, the Cubs are the single best team in Major League Baseball...

for me to poop on.”

It seems that their "Won/Loss Record"...

would indicate they are in fact the best team in Major League Baseball….if your just going by wins and losses. And we all know that wins are a bad stat to use to judge things in baseball.

Precisely.

How many victories have we had on Sunday’s with temp’s between 68 and 73, SW-blowing wind, on the road, in blue jerseys, when Zambrano has touched the bill of his cap at least three times?

Ha ha, playing with itself
That's like saying; "All of these girls are ugly,

but as far as ugly girls go, you ain’t half bad.”

And believe you me...

most of the time…that line doesn’t work at all!

And when it does work,

you usually wish it hadn’t.

"You could be a part-time model."
Never heard that.

That’s good.

"Or an air-hostess in the '60's"
"Or a high-class prostitute."
"My place is usually tidier than this"
Of all the girls, walking down the street, depending on the street, you would definately be in the top 3

Always nice to see a Flight of the Conchords reference. :)

"And to seal the deal, I do my moves, I do my dance moves..."
(crap still can't reply): Re Sori: The ball did hit him in the face, which is pretty much where it was headed.

At any rate, rehab assignment would be a good idea. As far as the psychology I was thinking of overlearned event reaction or some such thing, not PTSD.

We call that "Matt Clement Syndrome" I believe...
Actually, Morgan said that the Cubs had improved from 07

while the rest of the NL team had regressed. So it wasn’t quite the back handed complement that was implied here. I didn’t take it as an explanation for the Cubs W-L record, but as an opinion that the Cubs were clearly the most talented team in the NL. I’m no Joe Blow fan, but it did appear to be complementary to the Cubs.

So...which potential NL playoff teams would make it toughest on the Cubs?

I say Arizona, Florida, and Houston. Mainly because they’ve always had trouble winning in those cities, and tend to get burned by young upstart players as well. Milwaukee might be worse than Houston. Basically the 5 game series has me a li’l bit worried. But it is nice to know we’ll be in it at the end already.

Houston is a potential NL playoff team? Really?
In the terribly weak NL...every team is a potential playoff team
Definitely Arizona to be the toughest

simply because of their 1-2 punch of Webb and Haren. Even if they score only 2 runs against the Cubs, they are good enough to hold any offense to 1 run. We can counter with Z and Demp and/or Lily but it’s still a crapshoot.

You mean Z and Sabathia...

oh wait…not just yet.

that would take the argument

to toughest in the World Series, but you’re right, not just yet.

Z, Demp, Sabathia

Cerberus?

If I knew he'd stay healthy--i think i'd rather have Harden

We may not have to give up as much and he’s probably more signable-it’s nice that CC is lefty-but it’s possible Harden would fit in better too-not sure-I wonder if the town is big enough for Z and CC…if they got along—how cool would it be to have two behemoths as a 1-2 though?

maybe the Cubs make a play for Harden

as a way to make it seem to the Indians that we can easily go a much cheaper route in terms of players we trade away…. bargaining our way down to get Sabathia at something that doesnt leave us all feeling violated.

Johson and Schilling seemed to get along...

winning seems to do that.

Do you mean sybaris?
No, I think he meant Poison


Poison for Opposing hitters.

Dang!

I mean this:

Don't forget Philli.

And Houston? I’m much more focused on the Brewers and Cardinals in the Central than the Astros.

Phillies are the second best team in the NL

Their hitting and pen has been solid all year long, but like the Cubs, their SP is key weakness. Also, they will be in the hunt for SP.

However, do NOT count out the Mets. Their offense has been struggling and pen has been inconsistent, but Minaya could pull of a deal for a RP such as Sherill from the O’s. I am sure their offense will come together by the second half of the season. Their team has potential and I expect them to make a late run in the division.

The Brewers…well, unless they can improve their pitiful bullpen (their best RP has been Torres), then I don’t see them keeping their hot streak. Their offense may be deadly, but their SP and bullpen will be their main downfall.

Cardinals, they could improve and become dangerous if they can get back a healthy Carpenter/Mulder, but other than that I don’t think they will be a force to be reckon with. They might continue to be good, but I don’t think they will become any better even if Pujols returns.

Oswalt

I was trying to think of some “dark horses” out there that don’t come to mind immediately when thinking of available arms. We all know the names CC, Bedard, Burnett, Harden, Wolf, are all out there, but who are we missing?

The one guy that I keep thinking about is Roy Oswalt. I, for one, see the Astros fading away quickly after the ASB. I know the first challenge to get him would be playing in the same division and he’s a righty (when we could use a lefty), however I’ve always liked Oswalt and I think he’d be a nice addition to our staff. I see him sorta having a Jimmy rebirth if surrounded by this ball club….

Just thought it’d be fun to think of some different pitchers that might become available.

Wagner?

What are the chances Billy Wagner gets kicked to the door?

Billy Wagner is a complete....

Do. Not. Want.

Big Brown?

sorry—couldn’t resist

I'm going to

hold my jubilation on our outcry being heard by ESPN until Sunday night. If Joe Morgan retracts his statements on the baskets and Ernie or issues an apology then I will be happy.

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