Feels weird to lose, doesn't it?
And isn't that a good thing? After nine wins in a row -- coming from behind in eight of them -- it still felt OK even when the Cubs went down 1-0 in the first inning.
But for the first time in 26 games the Cubs never led, though they tied it at 1 when Alfonso Soriano singled, stole second, went to third on a Ryan Theriot single, and scored on a sacrifice fly. (The last time the Cubs never led in a game before last night was when they were shut out in Cincinnati 9-0 on May 7. The next day they came home and started a four-game winning streak.
There isn't much more to say about last night's 2-1 loss to the Padres. Ironies abounded: the Cubs finally got a good pitching performance out of their starting pitcher, Ted Lilly, but the bats turned silent -- four singles was all they got, and no walks; that's the first time since April 11 at Philadelphia and only the third time all season (April 4 at home vs. Houston the other) that the Cubs have gone walkless, very impressive patience being shown by Cub hitters all year.
Other numbers: Greg Maddux threw only 69 pitches in dispatching the Cubs through the six innings he threw. (You still don't want Maddux? It wasn't Petco that was making his pitches move the way they did last night. Go get him, Jim Hendry!) The Cubs did get a hit off Trevor Hoffman in the 9th inning, but with two out, Hoffman struck out Derrek Lee to end it. The game finished in a snappy two hours and fifteen minutes, probably sped along by the lack of walks (Lilly walked two, but no other pitcher who appeared in the game walked anyone).
Updating my "Best Starts" box, a numbers curiosity: all the teams that started the day of their 60th game of the season with a better record than the 2008 Cubs, lost that game, as did this year's version.That's it, really; I did fall asleep after the fourth inning, only to wake up during the bottom of the 7th to see that it was still 1-1, and fell asleep again. The next time I woke up some infomercial was on WGN, and I figured I'd find out the result in the morning.
Yes, it feels weird, as it does when every winning streak that gets this long ends. But the Cubs still won the series, and still lead the division by three games, and their starting pitcher looked good, and they saved the entire bullpen except for Carlos Marmol, who retired both of the hitters he faced (even though one of those outs produced the winning run on a sac fly), and Marmol threw only eight pitches.
Onward to Los Angeles and more winning.
0 recs | 309 comments
Baseball's afunny game isn't it?
Lilly gives up 7 or 8 runs? And we win.
Lilly gives up 1 run… and we lose.
SackMan - June 5, 2008
It does feel weird to lose
I was so looking forward to a naked lipped BB
Emelie - June 5, 2008
Too much information!
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
In a related story...
...Naked Lipped BB will be performing at the Empty Bottle tonight. Steve Stone’s Love Child will open.
daver - June 5, 2008
This team sucks!!!!
Just kidding. Would’ve liked to see a better performance from the offense but got to hand it to Maddux, he was brilliant.
McRipper - June 5, 2008
Yes. He was brilliant.
Now, it would be even more brilliant if Hendry could figure out a way to dump Marquis in San Diego…
Just give him the wrong call time for the bus ride to LA.
SackMan - June 5, 2008
Works for me!!
McRipper - June 5, 2008
Yeah, this team sucks! We'll do it live! WE'LL DO IT LIVE!!!
daver - June 5, 2008
LOLZ
bluebythebook - June 5, 2008
Have you heard the dance remix? I liked it so much I bought it.
daver - June 5, 2008
WHAT'S THAT MEAN?? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS!
northsider - June 5, 2008
Nice to see Lilly go 7 innings
...the BP needed that. I don’t like this losing thing though ;)
On a side note, one of the many great things about BCB. I have been on the east coast on business all week and have missed every pitch of the SD series, but BCB has kept me up to speed! You only really get to see box scores in the USA Today and of course the requisite 18 second recap of the best in baseball on ESPN every night when traveling..
Thank goodness for BCB!
JB 23 - June 5, 2008
I have slingbox and the MLB audio package to back me up
when I’m on the road for work…
but being on the east coast for this series was tough… I was up till at least 1am on Monday night.
SackMan - June 5, 2008
At least
we didn’t need to use a pitcher in the ninth. Right?
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
You're right Al
There’s a lot of positives to be taken from this game: great start from Lilly, most of the pen rested, beat by Maddux rather than the AAA lefty we’d lose close game to in years past, still won the series…
I don’t recall feeling this optomistic after a loss in a long time. Usually I have that, “here we go again” feeling after a close loss, but now it’s a real (not just a make my self feel better) we’ll get ‘em tomorrow feeling.
HectorVillanueva - June 5, 2008
Last night was a classic Madres win.
They got great pitching and managed to eek out just enough offense to win. At the very least, I got some chuckles out of watching Michael Barrett play.
Was he always that bad behind the plate or did we just conveniently overlook it because he made up for it with his bat? (I think I know the answer to that.) I feel a little bad saying that, because I used to like Micheal, but, man…those throws down to second base were awful. And I loved his “What can I say?” shrug when the ump got pissed at Maddux. Great baseball moment.
In any case, big ups to Ted “The Prez” Lilly for stepping up with a quality start. Hey, MDBNIU, I hope this puts an end to your Marquis comparision. Call me the next time Jason goes seven and a third, gives up only one run and strikes out eight.
daver - June 5, 2008
Self-correction: Lilly gave up two runs, of course.
daver - June 5, 2008
Yes, Barrett was always that bad behind the plate.
We ignored it the first two years because he was hitting. But when he stopped hitting, it was time for him to go.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
The only flaw in Maddux's game
was still evident - he didn’t hold runners on. That, combined with Barrett’s tissue-paper arm = steals.
To echo Al - Get. Maddux. Now.
He could have pitched in a phone booth last night. I hated to see the streak end, but on the drive home I realized it was another chance to see a HOF pitcher at his best—it could have been 1992.
He should finish with a winner, not surrounded by second-rate crap.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - June 5, 2008
It's time for DLee to get out of this funk
And start being aggressive at the plate again. He’s just staring at meatballs. It’s so hard to watch him when he goes through these slumps.
Also… I think we’re due to see either Dome or Soto get red hot soon.
SackMan - June 5, 2008
Yep...
noticed that too. Lee needs to pounce on some of these pitches he’s seeing, especially in that last at-bat.
crw89 - June 5, 2008
Agree
Hoffman threw him that 86 MPH down and in and Lee swung through it, I was shocked.
He will get going again, Lets get 3 out of 4 in LA
Grockcubs - June 5, 2008
Question is -
Why is Lee staring at meatballs?
DGU - June 5, 2008
Maybe he's on Wood's diet
and is getting hungry
gwood - June 5, 2008
LOL
Bump Bailey - June 5, 2008
It was
nearly midnight central time. He probably needed a snack.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
He hasn't been talking to Prince Fielder, has he?
daver - June 5, 2008
No
DLee doesn’t agree with clubbing little baby seals, unlike Fielder ;)
gwood - June 5, 2008
still sad over that
evil bcb
tony412 - June 5, 2008
I'm glad that someone
who recognized the reference caught it first, otherwise people may think I am a really evil person saying that Fielder clubs little baby seals :)
gwood - June 5, 2008
Maddux
He went 7 innings, Al; not 6.
danimal15 - June 5, 2008
Thanks.
Remember, I was asleep.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
Still only 69 pitches though
gocubsgo22 - June 5, 2008
Did you call it a night after the fourth inning as usual or try to make it a little a longer?
I wound up watching this one until the very end. Thanks to Greg Maddux, doing so didn’t hurt me too much.
daver - June 5, 2008
I posted about this in the main post.
Fell asleep after the 4th, woke up in the 7th, fell asleep again. Guess I should have stayed asleep.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
D'oh! I just got caught skimming again.
Yeah, maybe some deeper REMs would’ve pulled this one out. Ah, well…if our guys can at least split the series with the Dodgers, I’ll be pretty satisified with this roadtrip.
daver - June 5, 2008
This losing thing sucks!
Let’s start another 9 game winning streak tonight. On second thought, let’s make it an even dozen.
Blue W - June 5, 2008
How 'bout a baker's dozen? (And I don't mean Dusty.)
daver - June 5, 2008
We got Madduxized
As much as I hated to see us lose at least I got to watch most of a great craftsman dice us up with funny looking pitches that dance before our eyes. 7 pitches in the 1st inning? Has to be one of Maddux’s best games this year. I’ll miss watching him pitch…...someday. Onward to LA, let’s get back on track!
mrcubsfan - June 5, 2008
Two notes...
...first, if the Yankees, Red Sox, or Mets had a nine game winning streak (or a nine game winning streak snapped), this would be the cover story, sans the Stanley Cup. Instead, espn.com has NOTHING about this game on its front page. This is why I hate Espn, hate east coast bias, and hate those three teams.
Second, has there ever been a team that had a player – let him go – got him back – let him go – and may get him again?
Dan
dtpollitt - June 5, 2008
I assume there have been...
... some players that have had three different stints with a team, though I can’t think of one off the top of my head, and definitely no one of the stature of a Greg Maddux.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
I believe
pinch-hitter Mark Sweeney (now a Dodger) has been with the Padres 3x.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - June 5, 2008
Rickey Henderson
I think Oakland drafted him then released and reaccquired him a few times throughout his career.
tony412 - June 5, 2008
Kenny Lofton?
tony412 - June 5, 2008
Carl Everett
I think the Sox traded for him twice, giving up a total of 114 minor league prospects.
HectorVillanueva - June 5, 2008
Yes on Lofton
Three tours of duty with Cleveland – 92-96; 98-01; and 2007
ballhawk - June 5, 2008
The White Sox...
...acquired Harold Baines 3 times.
jolietconvict - June 5, 2008
Maddux
Do you think there is going to be some dumbass voter for the HOF that doesn’t vote for Maddux?
McRipper - June 5, 2008
Why would there be?
dtpollitt - June 5, 2008
Because...
... there are some idiot sportswriters who have a HoF ballot who think, wrongly, that “no one should get in unanimously”.
Even Cal Ripken didn’t. How stupid.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
Thanks Al
I was just typing that when you posted. But yeah, that’s what I’m referring to.
McRipper - June 5, 2008
No one has received 100%
I think. Because of that, some voters will refrain from voting just so a current player doesn’t trump one of the all time greats who didn’t get the 100%.
Silly, I think.
TC Cubby - June 5, 2008
Insane HoF Voters
I’ll go over a list of players I remember. George Brett, Tom Seaver, Tony Gwynn, Cal Ripken, Jr., Rod Carew, Steve Carlton, and Mike Schmidt did not get unanimous election. I suppose Gwynn and Carew did not hit for enough power. Schmidt did not hit for high enough an average. Carlton had too many bad seasons at the end of his career. Ripken didn’t hit for high enough an average. Brett did not field third base well early in his career in the 1970’s. Tom Seaver never pitched a perfect game. I’m grasping at straws to figure out why anyone with a HoF ballot did not vote for these players.
memphiscub - June 5, 2008
The answer is...
... that those writers are arrogant jerks.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
And I'm guessing a number of them were DUBWITs as well.
daver - June 5, 2008
What does that acronym stand for?
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
C'mon, Al, you're not keeping up with the BCB dictionary. :-)
It stands for DUmbest Baseball Writer In Town.
daver - June 5, 2008
LOL
Thanks!
Can’t keep up with EVERYTHING, you know.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
They're also not all baseball writers
I think I read somewhere that Phil Hersh of the Trib has a vote. He has been covering the Olympics pretty much full time for at least 15 years.
JohnM - June 5, 2008
Willie Mays caught the ball wrong....threw sidearm
I’m surprised that he made the HOF with his lack of fundamentals. What were the voters thinking?
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
baseball is a funny game
7 games in a row where the cubs pitchers do not throw a “quality” start
cubs record 7-0
1 game in a row where the cubs pitcher throws a “quality” start
cubs record 0-1
gocubsgo22 - June 5, 2008
I believe it was Al who said:
“If anyone ever tells you that they have this game figured out, laugh in their face.”
Blue W - June 5, 2008
That's Mike's line, actually.
But I like repeating it. It’s the truth.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
Team Batting in general
was pretty brutal. Not just Lee (although he is in a little funk). Seemed like the enigma of Maddog got to them last night. The whole “jump on him early, or you let Maddux settle into his game" took the Cubs out or their game of being patient and letting the pitcher make the mistake. Dome’s first 2 ab’s he swung at the first pitch and flew out. Just an uncharacteristic game for that offense in general. It happens sometimes.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
good observation
the batters did jump on several pitches. Maddux had a fierce repertoire, though. I didn’t feel bad about the loss. There weren’t any bone-headed moves—except maybe by the umpire’s call of a balk on Lilly. Still can’t figure that one out.
Emelie - June 5, 2008
Sometimes you have to tip the cap
He was on last night. The balk was weird. I have never seen that either. I guess they had to lose one sometime. Go on to LA and start another win streak.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
Weird is right
The loss itself doesn’t feel weird…it feels like a loss. But griping about it does. So I’ll just touch a couple quickly. No walks was a bummer. D Lee is a bit of a concern. He needs to get going again in LA (avg down to .287). It’s a shame we couldnt muster a couple more runs.
Stat question: When was the last time a team had five20 HR guys? Obvious potential this year with Lee, Ramirez, Soto, Soriano and DeRosa. How about six 20 HR guys?
tony412 - June 5, 2008
The 2004 Yankees had six...
ARod (36), Sheffield (36), Matsui (31), Jeter (23), Williams (22), and Posada (21). They actually had EIGHT with over 15, with Sierra (17) and Clark (16) playing part-time. And it’s important to note that Giambi (12) only played 80 games that year. They could have easily had eight guys with 20 HR that year. Ridiculous.
SouthernCub - June 5, 2008
Five is more common...
The 2007 Brewers, Phillies, and Indians did it, although the Indians had nobody with 30 and only one with 25. The Indians did it again in 2005.
SouthernCub - June 5, 2008
Thanks for the stats
Would be nice to see and would only make this team that much more memorable.
tony412 - June 5, 2008
Absolutely...
SouthernCub - June 5, 2008
Al, I still don't think getting Maddux is the right thing to do
Posted this in response to you in the Maddux thread:
It was a vintage Maddux start, but the splits are still what they are. Last week, we saw something akin to vintage Jim Edmonds. Not a whole lot of people on this board believed that it was a true resurgence.
This was one start. A very good start, but one start. He will have more, but I don’t know that he’ll have more like this than not.
Pitcher A:
5.01 Road ERA, .315 AVG, 1.46 WHIP
Pitcher B:
5.02 overall ERA, .307 AVG, 1.66 WHIP
Pitcher B is someone none of us like.
Maddux is the best pitcher of his generation, he’s a class act and a first-ballot Hall of Famer. However, at this point, he’s a 5-6 inning pitcher who struggles away from Petco. Bringing him back now would not undo the fact that his best years were in Atlanta. If he returns, I’ll welcome him and I’ll cheer for him. I just think that it would be a move based on sentimentality and not the best baseball decision.
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
Totally Agree Shanghai
If Lou is worried about his pen now. I don’t think Maddog is the right man for the job. Love him, but…
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
I was just looking at this
Maddux took one for the team the night after the Padres played 18 innings and then had to travel to AZ to play the DBacks (DBags). I watched that game and Maddux had NOTHING. He stayed in the game through the 7th inning to give the bullpen a rest. He gave up 13 hits and 9 ER. Take that game away and his road splits are….
3.67 Road ERA, 1.32 WHIP
I still don’t think he would be that helpful to the cubs on the field since he gives up too many HR especially in summer months at Wrigley, but his one start in AZ where he took one for the team really skews how well he has been pitching everywhere so far this year.
gocubsgo22 - June 5, 2008
Good point - but
You can’t take that start completely away, though—because he still would have gone 4-5 innings, right?
It does skew the numbers somewhat.
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
For real..
It’s not like he was told to give up 9 runs.
Bump Bailey - June 5, 2008
Right
My point is that people want to take that start away because he took one for the team, but even if he had left sooner, he still would have started the game. You can’t discount the entire start.
I just looked at the play-by-play. He gave up 6 in the first - he actually pitched better after that - 4 hits in the third through seventh. So, in effect, taking one for the team after the first made his numbers better than what they would have been had he been removed earlier.
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
Further...
... Maddux has NEVER pitched well in Arizona, no matter whether he was in his prime with the Braves, in his last stint with the Cubs, or now.
The Cubs play in Arizona in late July. Maybe they could wait till after that series to get him back.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
Agree
I was just pointing out that taking away one bad road start (which I realize you cannot due) makes his road numbers pretty good.
I love Maddux, BUT I do not advocate bringing him back as an answer to Cub’s potential second half starting pitching issues. He is not a good fit for Wrigley summer games at this point in his career.
gocubsgo22 - June 5, 2008
Odd
Thats exactly the last thing I said before going to bed. It really does feel weird, I bet it was weird for the Cubs too. Lou’s post game speech to the team “what the hells wrong with you guys? Letting Len and Bob off the hook!”
Lou In Blue - June 5, 2008
I blame my boyfriend
Last night was the first night my boyfriend and I were not together. We lost because he wasn’t here. We have been together for all but one Cubs game. We’ll be together tonight so we should get back on a winning track. It does feel weird to lose, but you can’t win them ALL. Just most of them!
Sorry to say, I fell asleep in the 6th and the game was over when I woke up at 1 because of the storms.
No Southern Belle - June 5, 2008
I say dump him
He shoulda taken one for the team
tony412 - June 5, 2008
NO DOUBT
who does he think he is
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
Tough crowd
I hope he’s reading your replies! But I don’t think I’m ready to dump him just yet.
No Southern Belle - June 5, 2008
That's good...
...just having a little fun at your expense.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
LOL
That’s fine. But you’ve got me thinking. I’ll put him on alert that he needs to take one for the team, though I’m pretty sure he was watching the game last night.
No Southern Belle - June 5, 2008
Good!
It’s something that definitely should be monitored.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
And I'm seeing that....
.... he’s either not reading this or ignorning it because he hasn’t tried to defend himself! Hmmmmmm….... He’s probably ignorning it.
No Southern Belle - June 5, 2008
Hmmm.....
Wonder if you guys are the only BCB “couple”..... maybe a proposal in LF is in the works? (That should get him talking)
tony412 - June 5, 2008
What's his user name?
daver - June 5, 2008
I'm sure we're not...
...the only BCB “couple.” I’m an upper deck gal. Been sitting there with my dad for more than 20 years.
His user name? I don’t want to embarrass him. I’ll let him identify himself if he wants to. I don’t think he posts very often anyway.
No Southern Belle - June 5, 2008
OK, just curious. :-)
daver - June 5, 2008
He didn't play baseball for NIU did he?
I kid, I kid….:)
Bump Bailey - June 5, 2008
Nope
He’s just a fan.
No Southern Belle - June 5, 2008
LOL!
sue369 - June 5, 2008
did it take you
that long to get the joke or are you just now getting here?
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
Now I'm hoping...
... he doesn’t read this thread!!!! I won’t be able to look at him without laughing at him. Wait, I usually laugh at him anyway and he doesn’t know why,so this would be no different.
No Southern Belle - June 5, 2008
I just got here.
sue369 - June 5, 2008
Glad you could make it :)
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
how did Marmol look last night?
I didn’t stay up to see the late innings of the game , either. Was Marmol’s sacrifice fly a situation where he normally would have struck out the batter 2 weeks ago, or just one of those things that happened. Just worried that he’s been a little more hittable in the last 2 weeks (and by that I mean it’s now physically possible to hit him, since he’s been unreal this year).
TORCO - June 5, 2008
Marmol looked good
gocubsgo22 - June 5, 2008
Odd choice though
to throw a first pitch fastball that resulted in the sac fly. Marmol’s best pitch is his slider. I always thought the theory with relievers in that type of situation would be to make the hitter beat you on your best pitch.
gwood - June 5, 2008
i thought the same thing
the fastball was low, but still i would have liked to see nothing but sliders thrown to kouzmanoff. i think he was just trying to get ahead, but i wouldn’t have minded even pitching around kouz to make sure he gets nothing but low sliders. worst case, you walk him and have khalil greene at the plate with a DP possibility.
Waveland Ave - June 5, 2008
to me
the mistake was leaving Lilly in for the 8th. If Marmol comes in to start that inning, maybe he doesn’t give up the double; then the bunt is an out and the sac-fly is too, and they’re out of the inning.
And because it’s a tie game, Hoffman doesn’t come in.
maybe, anyway.
drewishdrewid - June 5, 2008
Why not bring in Stevie?
he was warming up in the pen the previous inning in case Giles and Gonzales got to the plate and he hasn’t given up an earned run yet.
gwood - June 5, 2008
Stevie
Agreed. Why even have him warm up if you are going to leave Lilly in for the first two hitters (both lefties) in that inning. Very odd.
gocubsgo22 - June 5, 2008
I think
Lilly argued to stay in.
And Lou still likes to use Eyre in very specific situations. I don’t understand it.
drewishdrewid - June 5, 2008
I don't either.
Eyre’s being used like a LOOGY when he could easily go longer.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
TWSS
santoswoodenlegs - June 5, 2008
Mmmm...I don't know. I hate to challenge the master but...judges?
daver - June 5, 2008
mmm... no
LOOGY reminds me too much of boogers and I certainly wouldn’t want a longer one of those
Emelie - June 5, 2008
Yeah, I think Al's sentence was a little too specific to apply a TWSS.
If Al had written only, “He could easily go longer.” then I could perhaps see TWSS being applicable. As it stands, I’m going to have to deny this usage. I will, however, leave this open to appeal.
daver - June 5, 2008
TWSS?
Fill me in again?
Hammer - June 5, 2008
That's What She Said
McRipper - June 5, 2008
And, oddly enough...
...”Fill me in again?” would be a perfect prompt for TWSS.
daver - June 5, 2008
Touche
Well played, Sir.
McRipper - June 5, 2008
McRipper?
does that mean you fart at McDonalds?
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
A little less than seven hours 'til game time, people.
daver - June 5, 2008
will it NEVER be game time...
(Henry V)
drewishdrewid - June 5, 2008
hahahaha
No, it’s a nickname I got from playing the guitar.
McRipper - June 5, 2008
Thumbs Up!!!
It was borderline but after careful review the “he could easily go longer” phrase is an acceptable phrase.
McRipper - June 5, 2008
Maybe
I was surprised, but not upset when Lilly stayed in. Sometimes, a manager takes a risk to play for the future—it’s not unlike resting starting position players.
On the other hand, the fact that he did bring Marmol seems inconsistent with that strategy.
On the third hand, you don’t score, you don’t win, so it doesn’t matter how many they gave up . . . .
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
I had a WTF moment
when Lou brought Marmol in. Far be it for me to second guess, but wtf?!
Emelie - June 5, 2008
Yeah, I didn't get it either. When is Eyre going to get some innings?
daver - June 5, 2008
+1
I was at the game and there is no way that Lilly should have started the 8th. He did well to get out of jams all night but he gave up a lot of hard hit balls that I thought would have been HR’s in other parks.
madeindetroit - June 5, 2008
rumor
rumor has it the cub offense wants to get rid of marquis so they made a deal with the maddog. you pitch well and we wont swing the bats on purpose. then hendry will indeed see you are still an awesome pitcher who would like another WS ring. sometime over the next week or two he will be a cub. just kidding but sounds good to me anyway.
cubsluver22 - June 5, 2008
lol
Theodore Roosevelt Lilly lost to Gregory Alan Maddux.
tony412 - June 5, 2008
Nerds
JohnM - June 5, 2008
I think Greg was just sick of hearing that
He was “out-Madduxed” by dempster last time out.
“I’ll show those guys! You don’t ‘out-Maddux’ Maddux! Only Maddux can ‘out-Maddux’ Maddux!”
...or something like that.
Blue W - June 5, 2008
Maddux
I have tons of respect for Greg as a pitcher, but it seems to me he has an equal number of good games and bad games these days. To me he’s a crap shoot, but he was dealing last night. Oh and I forgot he’s the best fielding pitcher ever.
tedinSoCal - June 5, 2008
Tru dat
One other thing that’s not mentioned too often: his post-season record is not exactly ‘Cy Young’ stuff.
malicedoom - June 5, 2008
Take out...
... the two 1989 NLCS games for the Cubs in which Maddux got lit up and his postseason ERA is 2.94 in 186 innings.
Not too shabby.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
Post season records =
small sample sizes.
Nobody would draw conclusions on any random set of 10 or 15 games. Why these?
JohnM - June 5, 2008
It would have stung less
In the 8th I was thinking maybe it would be a game my compromise “root for Greg to pitch great and we beat the pen” might work out.
It would have stung a little less to have had Madduck get the win,
puckishcubsfan - June 5, 2008
Maybe they lost on purpose because they would have to look at Len and Bobs bald heads on the plane and the thought frightened them.
puckishcubsfan - June 5, 2008
Again, why not just put both of these thoughts in one post?
daver - June 5, 2008
Neither
Made much sense.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
Do they
cancel each other out, then?
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Confused +1
malicedoom - June 5, 2008
It looks like she at least tried to use punctuation in the first one.
Unfortunately, she used a comma to END the second sentence. And let’s not even get into “Madduck.”
daver - June 5, 2008
agreed -- stay away from rabid ducks...
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
A WI brother?
You from WI? I’m in Brookfield WI. Tough being a Cubs fan in WI nowadays. Bandwagon Booers fans kill me.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
Yep, I'm from WI
After I saw your profile, I was considering starting a fan post about people “like us” .... I think that I will.
I’m from Kenosha, now live in Racine, went to school in Madison (obviously) and work in Milwaukee. It’s actually always been tough to be a Cubs fan around here—because when they’re bad, we hear that. You’re right about the bandwagon fans, though. I know some good Brewers fans, but most of the ones around here don’t actually know what the hell they’re talking about.
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
No Doubt
There are a lot of us here. It’s funny cause I have some really good baseball buds that are Brew fans. But they still kill me with the things they say.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
What Happened?
Why did that last post come out like that?
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
good question
I tried to scroll to the end to read the whole quote but couldn’t do it.
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
Darn
I had some good points in there. I guess to sum it up, We’re always the bad guys NO MATTER what. Most of them think it is a huge rivalry with us. I tell them it’s not. Will always be the Cards. Which makes them more mad. Don’t get it!
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
I imagine
that makes them even more angry considering they essentially play in Wrigley II.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
LOL
at OldStyle Field.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
that, I understand
it’s an inferiority complex - same reason why Marquette fans hate UW BB (the same ones that root for the FB team - go figure).
Also not much different than the White Sox fans.
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
BINGO
Great analogy. I need to use that!
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
the complex stems from
popularity, not ability.
Obviously, there are years when the Brewers have a better team
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
That's what I try to tell them
They think the Cubs have been good for a lot of years. They have NO idea what we have gone through as Cubs fans. They think because we spend a lot that we are good.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
Yep
There are bad Cubs fans, too - which makes us all look bad. But even the friends at work say funny things - I’ve had to explain the wild card to partial season ticket holders, and yesterday I had to explain to a big fan that the umpires are all, in fact, called umpires (not refs, backjudges, etc.) seems Milwaukee still is a football town – without a football team. (Even though I’m a Packers fan, the all GB all the time mentality drives me nuts.)
I did publish the fan post, btw. Will be interested to hear from our “bretheren”
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
Wait.
You had to describe the wild card to season ticket holders?
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
sigh
they thought there was more than one per league, yes
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
Those people shouldn't get postseason tickets.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
Don't worry.
There’s a very good chance Miller Park won’t print any this year.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Or if they do
No one will show up cause they aren’t to sure what the wild card is.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
they'll show up if
Packers highlights are shown on the scoreboard
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
Or even..
If it’s picture of Brett Favre
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
yeah, that would still lead the 10 PM news around here
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
Maybe
they’ll move his locker to Miller if they make it to the playoffs.
Oh, and I feel the need to add a hearty GO BEARS! in the midst of all this Packer talk. ;)
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Not Packer Talk
just a dig on Booers fans not knowing what the wild card is.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
agreed
PS Go Pack!
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
Quiet, you!
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
lol
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
my first thought above was disjointed
there are good and bad Cubs fans, Brewers fans, etc. is what I meant to say.
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
The cursed Pirate Graybar.
daver - June 5, 2008
Arrrrr
Emelie - June 5, 2008
DLee's last AB was bothersome
First off he’s slumping, secondly it was Hoffman on the mound. He should’ve been taking on the first pitch. Instead he swings over it and then guesses wrong on the 2nd pitch, taking a fat strike. Really, he should just swing at everything or take pitches until he sees a strike because when he gets in a slump it seems he guesses himself right into a pitcher’s count.
Jerry Mumphrey - June 5, 2008
Lee
To me, it looks like he’s guessing a lot. And guessing wrong a lot.
danimal15 - June 5, 2008
to be fair
there were 2 other cubs who also K’d in the 9th. i’m not denying that DLee is in a bit of a funk, but i think it’s safe to say that hoffman had his A game last night
Waveland Ave - June 5, 2008
Agreed.
Which made Theriot’s AB all the more impressive.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Theriot was DEFINITELY a highlight last night, as was.....
Edmonds play in the gap on a critical play in a tie game. He got over real quick, fielded the ball, swiveled and threw to the correct base. Many would have macho-ed a loser throw into third with no chance for the runner and allow the hitter to get to scoring position. That ball had double written all over it too. Lilly got out of the inning and had we won, that play was a difference maker.
Theriot had some really impressive ab’s last night-not sure where his range ranks for a MLB SS-but for now, he brings alot offensively, albeit with no extra base hits. There’s tremendous value in hitters who can hang in against ANY pitcher and squeak out a hit.
It was good to see Ted throw so well, but I still don’t expect the same consistency we saw last year. Maddux was vintage—not sure you’d see many games like that in warm weather at Wrigley though.
cubfever7 - June 5, 2008
I take it
you’re not including his airmailed throw over the already-ginormous Derrek Lee, right. ;)
Good call on the Edmonds play. Though that big catch he made against the wall did look a wee showboatish, like he waited til the last second to jump when he could have really just kept right on running for it.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
I thought that he might know something about that fence
and the jump was to make sure that he hit the soft spot….the jump DID confound me.
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
Hmm, maybe.
Bottom line: he caught it.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Yep, he did, 2 hands also....
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
Just like
they taught you in Little League.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Wish the rest of our
team had played little league and learned that technique. Might have saved Soriano a couple times already this year
gwood - June 5, 2008
True.
But LL sure didn’t teach me to hit like Fonzie.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
I don't think any coach
in their right mind would teach someone to hit like that. He’s good at it, but I don’t think it is a recommended technique/approach :)
gwood - June 5, 2008
Hank Aaron was signed as a 2b
AND he batted RH with the left hand as the top hand, a split grip also!!! I can’t even imagine hitting that way, yet he was good enough to sign!!!
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
Once he signed
with the Indianapolis Clowns, the coach helped him change to a conventional grip.
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
Another thing
was that Hand Aaron’s dad played semi-professionally. You would think he would have taught him to grip the bat correctly since he taught Hank growing up.
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
that would be Hank
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
I remember reading that as a kid.
I told my dad and he thought I made it up! “Son, nobody can hit like that. You’ll break your wrist.”
neverAcquiesce - June 6, 2008
Showboatish . . . maybe
to me it looked more like he wasn’t perfectly sure where the wall was. It looked like he wasn’t sure if he could take another step or not, so to be safe he jumped. But, I agree, in the end, all that matters is that he caught it.
gwood - June 5, 2008
One might even say
scrappy
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
Yes --one might.
cubfever7 - June 5, 2008
He had great pitch recognition, didn't offer at that damned change up.....
even with a mid-80’s fastball, the change up is NASTY…
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
And that's what
caught Lee up. He got behind in the count so he had no idea what to look for and resorted to hacking to try and protect the plate.
No shame in losing that way, though.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
I prefer
Gritty.
Brett Taylor - June 5, 2008
The Nats are putting up quite and effort today
Pujols just hit a pinch-hit homer in the eighth.
Mapmaker - June 5, 2008
Nats with the same W/L record as the Tigers
Who would’ve thunk it…
malicedoom - June 5, 2008
In other NL Central news...
...the Reds have lost to the Phillies, 5-0. Cole Hamels pitched a three-hit complete game shutout. Suck it, Brennaman.
daver - June 5, 2008
Phills have a good team
Not to get a head of ourselves but those guys should be there in the end.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
TWSS
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Judges?
daver - June 5, 2008
I thought we were
going to be a little more sparing with the TWSS. We don’t want to kill it like some have beaten Rich Harden to death
gwood - June 5, 2008
poor Rich Harden
he was so young
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
say, we could use "Harden" instead
Shanghai Badger - June 5, 2008
Man...
...I need to watch what I say in this here blog.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
Just a few more minutes
Until we pick in the draft.
Brett Taylor - June 5, 2008
Cubs on the clock
CubsBall2202 - June 5, 2008
Cubs draft.... MARK PRIOR!!!
malicedoom - June 5, 2008
Oh shit, wait...
malicedoom - June 5, 2008
That was hilarious!! We have some people who should write for Leno here
cubfever7 - June 5, 2008
That's setting goals
pretty low, ain’t it?
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
OK....Larry the Cable Guy maybe?
cubfever7 - June 5, 2008
Oooh
even lower.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
TWSS
tony412 - June 5, 2008
Undisputed +1
daver - June 5, 2008
Rookie of the Month?
vote for tony412
tony412 - June 5, 2008
Buzz.
Unnecessary gloating. Points redacted.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Whoever
lives in the city did you get woken up at about 1:30 am with the loudest lightning ever? My building seriously was shaking for about 2-3 seconds.
Besides that side story, a tough loss for Lilly and I look forward to Demp pitching deep. A win would be nice to simply avoid the talk about the Cubs possibly starting to scuffle again on the road. Most of that talk would be from the boobs on talk radio, why I still listen and let it bother me I don’t know why but I do.
slocs55 - June 5, 2008
I was out cold
Damn 9pm games.
Hammer - June 5, 2008
I was also out cold
but then the lightning woke me up my heart pounding and I nearly sharted myself.
slocs55 - June 5, 2008
Cubs select Andrew Cashner
CubsBall2202 - June 5, 2008
Right handed pitcher from TCU
CubsBall2202 - June 5, 2008
I call his nickname right now as "Money." Book it.
daver - June 5, 2008
Maybe if his stuff is filthy
we can call him Dirty Money. That sounds grittier.
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
And if he's sexy, we can call him "Dirty Sexy Money. "
Whatever happened to that show, anyway?
daver - June 5, 2008
Maybe
it went away with the writers’ strike
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
Dirty Sexy Money
will return in the fall.
tucsoncubsfan - June 5, 2008
BA against of .122, hitters using aluminum bats....
you just wonder how good it will be against wood bats
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
TWSS?
No, I guess not
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
Buzz.
Roughing the commenter.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Aluminum gets cold....(now maybe?)
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
So, any of you stats folks have anything that relates hitting with aluminum vs.wood?
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
I don't but...
know it’s easier to hit with aluminum than wood. Averages are inflated with aluminum so the .122 vs. is a good thing.
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
Much easier....
just waiting for the AL to add the aluminum bats for their DH’s….
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
No kidding.
“We got a final in, Angels 32, Tigers 27.”
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
I thought that was the score after the 4th....
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
It was
called after both teams used 25 pitchers.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
More bat speed
To long of a read for me but… drussell/bats-new/alumwood.html” target=”_blank”>http://www.kettering.edu/drussell/bats-new/alumwood.html
Fishbone2 - June 5, 2008
Mabe you could
say that it’s harder to score with a woody
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
Um.....that's probably backwards.....
SSWT
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
TWWHSNS
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
As long
as he can bunt, I’m happy.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Oh, opponents BA.
:facepalm:
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Cards win 4-1 - damnit
malicedoom - June 5, 2008
ESPN's take on Cashner:
“Cashner could get to the big leagues this year. On his best days, he has two pitches that grade as 60. The slider is at 88 mph, and it’s an out pitch. And he can run his fastball up to 98 mph. There’s a question about his command; can he command his pitches? If he can, he can get to the big leagues right away as an impact relief pitcher.”
BMoney79 - June 5, 2008
There, ya see? The bullpen's gonna be fine.
daver - June 5, 2008
Yup
With the addition of “Cash Money”, I do believe we have added one of the final pieces to the ‘08 Championship puzzle. Plus, it’s cool to say that now we’ve got a “Horned Frog” on our team.
BMoney79 - June 5, 2008
BTW
“Pitches that grade as 60.” Not familiar with that system…how good is 60?
BMoney79 - June 5, 2008
its better than a 50
Hammer - June 5, 2008
But not as good as 70??
BMoney79 - June 5, 2008
The good news is the scale ends at 59.
daver - June 5, 2008
Wow, very nice!
What’d he get the extra point for?
BMoney79 - June 5, 2008
Everybody gets the extra point.
It’s like that free space in bingo.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
I was thinking it was more like Nigel Tufnel's amp in "This Is Spinal Tap."
“Why don’t you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?”
“These go to eleven.”
daver - June 5, 2008
Brilliant.
The lost look on his face as he truly fails to comprehend is priceless.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Sounds like a Marquis replacement....
I thought Lou was classic on the mound with Marquis…...
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
excuse the formatting...
ESPN Cashner Grades
PRESENT FUTURE LOW HIGH
Fastball 70 70 95 98
FB Movement 45 45 - -
Command 45 45 - -
Control 40 45 - -
Slider 55 60 84 88
Changeup 45 50 - -
Feel 45 50 - -
JCD - June 5, 2008
Very interesting.
Thanks.
BMoney79 - June 5, 2008
Is it allowable
to break out individual lines for TWSS?
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
That was for JCD's comment
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
You could maybe do something like this...
TWSS.
daver - June 5, 2008
I would still deny that, though.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Yeah, that doesn't quite work anyway.
daver - June 5, 2008
that was kind of
what I had in mind, but I didn’t want to be disqualified for improper TWSS usage
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
The Yanks Once Again
Get the “expensive” young stud who drops. Lame.
Brett Taylor - June 5, 2008
Im putting the over/under
Hammer - June 5, 2008
for this thread
Hammer - June 5, 2008
at 425
Hammer - June 5, 2008
A few more TWSS votes, and we should make it easy.
daver - June 5, 2008
You hear that, folks?!
Start throwing out those potentially suggestive, but not really intended, innuendos!
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
I will not
malicedoom - June 5, 2008
how come?
Hammer - June 5, 2008
Because I'm still in shock over this:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=2690
(thought he DIED or something)
malicedoom - June 5, 2008
Considering
that the guy played baseball with Mathusela, it would be an easy mistake to make
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
Dunno why, but I've always like Stairs
Maybe it’s because he tipped his hat to me one time when he was with the Cubbies. Seems like a good guy. 40yrs old and still hitting .272. Not bad, Matt.
malicedoom - June 5, 2008
the guy
can sure hit the ball a long way
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
Now
you’re just trying too hard.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Actually
that one was completely accidental
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
D'OH
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
WAY TOO HARD
Hammer - June 5, 2008
I've got the over
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
TWSS
(zing!)
malicedoom - June 5, 2008
Speaking of Yanks
(no, not TWSS), but nice late comeback by NYY today. 3 in the bottom of the 9th.
malicedoom - June 5, 2008
Zale Update
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AqqxZAd6mBzghSqqLr8LF5cRvLYF?slug=ap-cubs-zell&prov=ap&type=lgns
tony412 - June 5, 2008
hahah
the financial books have been going out to bidders within the week FOR WEEKS NOW
Hammer - June 5, 2008
Zale?
That’s pretty clever.
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
Just drafted Vanderbilt SS Ryan Flaherty, with pick 41
“A strong and athletic infielder with a classic left-handed swing, he’s drawn a comparison to Wally Joyner in terms of his offensive skill set. He should hit for average, but hasn’t shown much power at this point. Defensively, he’s got a good arm, but does not have the range to stay at short. A move to third might make the most sense given his size.”
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
Move to third?
So he throws right?
neverAcquiesce - June 5, 2008
6'3', 200 lbs, bats L throws R
no speed, the report calls him a “base clogger”.....”doesn’t have the range to stay at short”
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
meant "not a base clogger"
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
Thought he would
be perfect for Dusty there for a second
gwood - June 5, 2008
Looks like next pick is #65
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
Ryan Flahrety from Vanderbilt's web site--pre-season first team all-american
Coach Corbin Quote: Ryan is a model of consistency. He has great leadership abilities and is a very good teammate. I think he’s the best shortstop in the country.
2007: Second-team All-America selection by the American Baseball Coaches Association and Rivals.com … Named to ABCA All-South Region team and second-team All-SEC … Batted .381 with 23 doubles, four homers and 57 RBI … Finished the year with a school single season record 35-game hitting streak … 23 doubles tied for most on the team … Led the team with 33 multi-hit and 20 multi RBI games on the year … Went 13-for-24 (.542) with four RBI and five runs scored in the NCAA Nashville Regional … Went 5-for-5 with a double, homer and three RBI against Austin Peay (6/3) in NCAA tourney … Went 11-for-29 (.379) with five doubles and nine RBI in six games at the SEC tournament, earning All-Tournament honors … Broke the school single season record with 28th straight game with a hit against Ole Miss (5/26) ... Went 5-for-10 with three doubles and five RBI in the two games against the Rebels in the SEC semifinals ..
cubfever7 - June 5, 2008
Well, he probably has to do some OJT with wood......
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
Anyone?
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
Guess not, I thought it was a definite twss'er.....
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
I vote to temporarily quarantine TWSS
due to overuse disease
Emelie - June 5, 2008
Overuse disease?
Do you think TWSS will need Tommy John surgery?
CyberCyclist - June 5, 2008
a little lower down...
yeah. But then you’d all be the Sopranos.
Emelie - June 5, 2008
The video shows a sweeeeet swing.....
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
What do ya know
Top story on 5 o clock sportscenter is Yankees-Blue Jays
CubsBall2202 - June 5, 2008
They're just mad that the Yankees aren't playing the Red Sox today.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
Wow, Too bad my TV has an operator error than doesn't allow ESPN to use the TV......
And leading with the Yanks is such a surprise. If they won, there isn’t enough time alloted for ESPN….
crazymountain - June 5, 2008
DAMN IT TO HELL!!
This loss just proves we need to get TPTSNBN!!!!!!!!! We need to get rid of Lilly! We nned to buy a new short stop and trade Soriano and bring Murton up!!! THIS IS BULLSHOES!!
BWAHAHA
Keystone80435 - June 5, 2008
"BULLSHOES"?
That’s a new one.
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
Its great isnt it? Not foul and gets the point across with a laugh.
Keystone80435 - June 5, 2008
Game thread will post at 6:15 CDT
Just FYI
Al Yellon - June 5, 2008
YOU CAN'T STOP A TRANE
I wish to officially voice my annoyance at the TRANE ads appearing on this site now. If your mouse passes over them at all they pop out over the page. Then the close button happens to be tucked up in the corner so that you’re in all likelihood going to have to get past the ad to interact with the rest of the page.
BLAH.
Negman42 - June 5, 2008
At first I thought you were talking about John Coltrane
But I agree. It happened to me too. What a sneaky, sleazy way to get page hits.
Emelie - June 5, 2008
Better than the invisible banner ads I've accidently clicked on other sites
californiachicagoan - June 5, 2008
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