This one, I knew I wouldn't be able to stay up for, because of the later start (and even with that, Dodger Stadium appeared half-empty at game time, despite an announced crowd of 52,484), so I tried the fourth-inning trick again.
I didn't make it through the bottom of the fourth; when the Dodgers loaded the bases with nobody out, I thought: "This doesn't look good," and it didn't: Hiroki Kuroda and the Dodgers shut out the Cubs 3-0, LA's first CG of 2008 and the Dodgers' first CG shutout since... today's starter, Derek Lowe, threw a one-hitter against the Cubs at Wrigley Field on August 31, 2005.
We will, all of us, be hoping that history doesn't repeat itself this afternoon.
Most of the recaps, including this one from Yahoo, call the missed DP call ending the first inning as a turning point in the game:
Trailing 1-0 on Kent’s RBI double in the first inning, the Cubs were the victims of a blown call in the fourth by first base umpire Derryl Cousins with runners at the corners and one out. Shortstop Chin-lung Hu turned Kosuke Fukudome’s grounder into a double play, but replays showed Fukudome was safe at first on the relay from Kent to James Loney.
While that cost the Cubs a run -- Ryan Theriot, who was on third, would have scored the tying run -- to me, that wasn't the key play of the game. That occurred in the last of the fourth, when, with runners on first and second and nobody out, Blake DeWitt grounded to Theriot. It was a sharply hit ball, but it appeared, at first, to be a routine play -- and one that a better SS than Theriot might have turned into a double play.
Nope and nope. DeWitt, who is not exactly a speed merchant (one SB in his brief major league career and 11 SB and 12 CS in 459 minor league games), beat Theriot's throw, loading the bases with nobody out. That's when I turned the TV off. Now, even the result of this inning shows some resilience that previous Cub teams wouldn't have had. You know this, right? In the past, someone would have hit a bases-clearing double and before you could blink, the Cubs would have been behind 6-0 or 7-0.
Instead, the Dodgers scored only one run, on another grounder to Theriot, and then Sean Gallagher struck out Chin-Lung Hu and Kuroda to keep the game close. Props to Gallagher, who kept his team in the game, at least.
Back to the ball hit to Theriot. We have debated and debated and debated Ryan Theriot's value (or lack thereof, in the opinion of some of you) on this site and it is not my intention to start another such debate (yeah, good luck stopping that, right?). But I have also said (and the numbers folks back this observed opinion) that Theriot doesn't really have the range or arm for SS. He's a 2B playing out of position. Personally, I think Ronny Cedeno at least gets one out and maybe a DP on DeWitt's grounder... which changes the entire complexion of that inning, and maybe the game. While Ryan Theriot is hitting .329/.410/.395 -- an .805 OPS -- he is probably worth keeping in the lineup. But if that starts to drop, Ronny Cedeno has to play. Has to, Lou, no matter if Theriot is your long-lost nephew (that's a joke, incidentally).
Beyond that, the bottom line is that the Cubs didn't really lose as a result of this: they just got beat last night when they got shut down by a pretty good pitcher. That kind of stuff happens even to great teams (example: the 114-win 1998 Yankees got shut out five times, including by scores of 7-0, 9-0 and 11-0. This makes three for the 2008 Cubs). Kuroda not only held the Cubs to four harmless singles, he also struck out eleven and didn't walk anyone.
One last thing, and I still don't understand this: the Cubs have a long reliever in Jon Lieber. If Lou is so worried about bullpen overwork, why doesn't he use Lieber that way, instead of wasting him in a one-inning appearance?
Z's going this afternoon; I have confidence that the Cubs will bounce back. The Cubs' two nearest pursuers in the Central, the Cardinals and Brewers, also lost last night, so the Cubs maintained their 3.5 game lead. (But Derrek Lee really has to start hitting, and until at least Tuesday, they really have no choice but to put him out there, with Lou's 1,275-man pitching staff.) I'll have a game thread up by early afternoon.
0 recs | 132 comments
First!
Well sometimes they’re just going to lose. Gallagher looked OK last night. The bats have to wake up a bit - especially D Lee - but I’m still way stoked about this team.
Get em today.
AlabamaCubFan - June 7, 2008
The Theriot play...
In some fairness to Theriot, I don’t think anyone was turning a double play on that one. It was hit very slowly and to Theriot’s right. The only play was at 1B.
With that said, I completely agree that Theriot’s lack of arm cost us an out on that play. He also took a rather slow route to the ball. I can’t tell if he was bothered by the runner or what, but he let it roll for a while before he got it and made his throw to 1B.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
Right, and...
... who knows, maybe that does turn that entire inning around.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
I'll be honest, I don't know that it made any difference...
Only one run scored that inning, and I think the run scores either way. As you said, Gallagher got a soft grounder and then two strikeouts to get out of the inning.
Unless a DP could be made, I don’t see any change in result there. And I REALLY don’t think there was a chance at a DP.
Theriot’s arm cost us an out, but I don’t think it cost us a run – THIS time.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
Maybe the run DOESN'T score with the grounder.
Keep in mind, with the bases loaded and nobody out, they were probably conceding the run to get a chance at a DP.
With runners on 2nd and 3rd and ONE out, they wouldn’t do that.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
It still scores...
that thing was hit SO slowly that there was no chance at a play at the plate, especially without the force out.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
It would've scored
If he got the out it would’ve been second and third with one out. Correct me if I’m wrong but the next play I think was a ground out (I was half asleep at the time).
wrigleyrocker12 - June 7, 2008
The issue is not so much Theriot versus Cedeno but Theriot versus DeRosa.
Theriot is a SECOND BASEMAN, may I repeat Theriot is a SECOND BASEMAN at the MLB level. Occasionally he can play an serviceable shortstop but if he is going to be a MLB starter he has to do it offensively at 2B. He is little different than many former SS prospects who become second baseman.
Now that said DeRosa is the starting SECOND BASEMAN because DeRosa has 30 + RBI’s and is making the bottom of the order a force for the Cubs. Now IF….if…when….maybe or finally we see the introduction of DeRosa as a floating starter moving around the diamond and playing 5 defensive positions (1B, 2B, 3B, LF, RF) in a regular rotation where Piniella rests his regulars through the summer months to September when the roster expands than maybe we can move Theriot to 2B 4/6 or 4/7 games a week. There Cedeno can be inserted as the starting SS and improve the infield defense.
Right now and until or unless Theriot fails at the plate he is one of the most effective table setters in the Cubs lineup. He hits very well to the opposite field, gets on base and scores runs ahead of Lee, Ramirez, Fukudome and Soto. The cost is the occasional defense where I have now noted three games (losses) he has had an effect. That is how important the SS position is.
Now it is my opinion that one other minor move for the playoffs is going after Vizquel who will be available in July as a back up, platoon to Cedeno at SS (or Theriot if he is still there). This is one of three moves I think the Cubs should make, the other being adding Maddux (I hope I hope I hope for Marquis, an obvious trade) and then a top of the rotation starter-stud.
BTW the game Gallagher pitched showed me he is a keeper. He needs the professor to teach him how to better apply himself.
Ivy Walls - June 7, 2008
Would you trade Theriot?
I doubt his value would ever be higher than it is right now. I doubt Lou or Hendry would want to, and I’m not sure if other teams would be interested.
Bump Bailey - June 7, 2008
Ivy there is a reason you don't work in the front office
and it isn’t that you live in Iowa or Colorado it is ideas like this one:
Now it is my opinion that one other minor move for the playoffs is going after Vizquel
We don’t need Omar. There was a time when he was a useful part of a team but now he isn’t as good as Cedano and shouldn’t even be in the Majors any more. The team doesn’t need to waste anyone picking up washed up former all stars when it has perfectly decent talent on the roster already. We could use another starter but I wouldn’t give up much in the way of talent for one. Picking up Omar is as bad an idea as getting Tracschal was last year. Maybe worse.
bubbamike the one and only - June 7, 2008
Agreed.
A 41-year-old SS who can’t hit and who missed a lot of the season with injuries. No thanks.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
See, I knew we could see
eye to eye on something. ;-)
bubbamike the one and only - June 7, 2008
Fukudome's close call
was the focus of SportsCenter’s Cubs highlights as well, and they didn’t even spin it to show how Manny would have reacted or that the Cubs would have won the game if only they had Joba Christ in thier rotation.
HectorVillanueva - June 7, 2008
funny
cozmotaylor123 - June 7, 2008
Call it a slight personality defect of mine
...but I am still not over the blown call by Cousins. First, how you make such a terrible mistake at that level is beyond me, it didn’t take replay to show he was safe, everyone knew he was. What bothers me the most is that it changed the game. Who knows how Kuroda would have pitched after the game goes 1-1 with runners on base?
The greatest crime is that there isn’t any discipline for Cousins for failing at his job. The NFL and NBA reprimand their officials when they blow calls, some are even fined. How about for MLB Umpires? No, you just go get a nice steak on your per diem and call it a night.
JB 23 - June 7, 2008
I agree
that was a totally blown call, and could have completely changed the course of the game.
drewishdrewid - June 7, 2008
The inane look on Cousins face was as bad as the call...
..the only thing that would have helped would have been a cream pie in the face right there on the field.
cubfever7 - June 7, 2008
There have been a ton of bad calls by umpires in the last month.
Maybe more in the last month than in the last couple of years combined.
They really have to do something about this.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
It started when the Cubs moaned about Theriot's call when it seemed the LAD was off the bag
And Lou came out and said OH Bull $#!* , the ump got him back with a situational/opportunity call and Lou and team got disciplined. I am certain the umps are paying him back for his June 2nd argument that is now a legend in the commercials.
Lou will have to deal with this in a way that is even more obvious and call out the umps as not being professional.
BTW ESPN Sports center has a freeze frame that has the ball three feet out of the glove and Fukudome on the base…...BAD CALL…REAL BAD CALL…...
Ivy Walls - June 7, 2008
It wasn't a revenge thing.
That’s simply a ridiculous implication. You sound like Hawk Harrelson. It’s Darryl Cousins. He’s a bad umpire. He’s not one of the hot-rod, confrontational guys; no, he’s quite simply incompetent. I can’t think of an umpire who’s got more of a collection of really bad calls over his career. Darryl Cousins isn’t bright enough to conspire against the Cubs.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
I know I've been hard on Brenly the last two weeks, but his reaction
to Cousins’ ineptitude was hilarious. Quoth BB:
“Well, that isn’t the first call that Darryl Cousins has blown at first base…or second base….or third base….or behind home plate. He’s got quite a history…”
Note to Hawk Harrelson: That’s how you criticize umpires.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
LSA
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
It was not even close...
looked like a home town decision….
But Kuroda was just brilliant…and the call clearly helped him.
dragonsfanatic - June 7, 2008
Kuroda was really good last night.
This is the third time I’ve seen him pitch and it was by far the best. He was really good.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
Tough loss
I can’t wait to watch the game on Fox today /sarcasm/. Although, I’ll probably have to miss the end. Maybe I’ll DVR it.
wrigleyrocker12 - June 7, 2008
The blown call really hurt
but our 3 and 4 hitters hurt us even more. I’ll give ramirez a pass for last night-anybody can have a bad game and he’s been our best clutch man this year. Lee, ot the other hand, is starting to worry me. He’s in a terrible funk right now-you can see the frustration written all over him-and he’s killing us in the 3 hole. I know that everybody goes through slumps but I don’t remeber him being this streaky in the past. I hate to keep repaeting myself, but it seems like fans definitely have a double standard when it comes to him and Soriano-many (myself included) always are ready to jump on Soriano and talk about dropping him from the lead-off position when he goes into a slump, but I rarely hear the same debates about Lee when he goes through one of his brutal stretches.
bluekoolaide - June 7, 2008
Lee's last AB when he K'd
Smashed his bat against the ground in frustration and slowly walked back to the dugout.
JFCubFan - June 7, 2008
Right. That pretty much said it all.
bluekoolaide - June 7, 2008
Hear, hear.
Lee and Rammy were pretty bad last night.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
Or Kuroda made them look bad.
bubbamike the one and only - June 7, 2008
Right.
Sometimes the other pitcher is really good and even good hitters look bad. Everyone should remember days when Z has been outstanding and made guys like Pujols look like little leaguers.
Sometimes the other team does that to us.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
Yeah.
He had Lee off balance all night long.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
theriot
i’m tired of all this BS on theriot. the guy is hitting over .320. call me crazy but i think that is the best on the team for the regulars. yeah he’s not amazing on defense…but the guy is hitting and playing pretty damn good defense. find me a better shortstop…and ronny cedeno is not the correct answer. if riot is not playing short we might very well not be in first place and have the best record in the MLB.
markgraceismyhero - June 7, 2008
I've been (and maybe still am) an Edmonds apologist, but....
.....he looked to have taken a strange route to Kent’s double early in the game. I don’t know if he misread the spin or overrplayed his route to the bal. It would have been an awesome catch had he made it for sure; but I think it was catchable.
Later in the game after a ground out to Kent from Edmonds, there seemed to be some unusual banter between the two. Kent had his glove over his mouth chuckling and Jimmy Ballgame had a look of hostility on his face directed toward Kent from the dugout. Interesting—don’t know if anyone else noticed.
cubfever7 - June 7, 2008
Ronny Cedeno...
or 90% of SS’s in the league. Check out the defense fanpost…I believe Theriot is 11th in NL SS’s defensively. That’s not ‘pretty damn good defense’ so try again. He is a singles only hitter who hurts the team with his terrible defense and poor baserunning (most CS in league). If you want to believe BA is the supreme stat, then whatever, but Theriot still is not that good.
Kansas25 - June 7, 2008
Theriot is 11th in the NL in RZR and out of zone plays
but Cedeno has a worse RZR, and fewer OOZ plays per inning. Theriot may not be a good defender, but Cedeno’s not any better. (the most CS in the league is also misleading considering how many of those have been on blown hit-and-runs by the batter. he’s still stolen 11 bases IIRC.)
PrincetonCubs - June 7, 2008
You tell me...
how many were on hit-and-runs….I guarantee it is a small number. Cedeno hasn’t had extended playing time but his OPS is much higher than Theriot’s. Theriot is a fill-in player, and time will reveal this. It really does not matter how many SB’s he’s had…if he is still a liability to attempt a steal.
Kansas25 - June 7, 2008
ha.
Cedeno 2008 OPS: 780
Theriot 2008 OPS: 805
keep trying, though
PrincetonCubs - June 7, 2008
Cedeno
doesn’t have enough of a sample size to make a good judgment.
drewishdrewid - June 7, 2008
Larger sample size
Cedeno career OPS (844 PAs): 645 (?!)
Theriot career OPS (1032 PAs): 742
either this year or across their careers in the majors, Theriot has a higher OPS. folks seem to be willing to bench Theriot because of Cedeno’s perceived success in his small sample size, as you say…just want to dispel any rumors
PrincetonCubs - June 7, 2008
It's no secret
that a lot of people think that Cedeno has seen significant improvement this year, and that his past record does not reflect what he’s doing THIS YEAR.
I’m one of them. I think he has what it takes, and I think Theriot, while getting lots of scrappy singles “sprayed” to right field doesn’t.
drewishdrewid - June 7, 2008
+1
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
unfortunately
his record this year doesn’t reflect that he’s improved to the point that he’s better than Theriot. I think Theriot has already shown he has “what it takes”...and so do a lot of other people. including Lou. so, in the end, it’s moot.
PrincetonCubs - June 7, 2008
Well, it's only a matter of time,
as Brenly and Kasper pointed out last night, before teams start playing a shift on Theriot and when those wormburners he hits to RF start turning into outs, his BA is going to plummet. That said, Ronny’s really slowed at the plate, and Theriot’s been put on a serious leash on the basepaths, so until Theriot cools at the plate, he’ll continue to play.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
Unless he makes adjustments.
If they start shifting, he can adjust and try to hit the ball the other way. If he succeds, then he’ll be a good bat in the lineup.
If he fails, Ronny Cedeno will be starting.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
Yep.
I’ve never seen Theriot be able to pull the ball with an consistency, though. If he can make that adjustment, he’ll be a more valuable player, and, IMO, will start hitting a few more doubles. He’s got good enough speed that if he was able to yank mistakes down the LF line, he could probably stretch a few singles into doubles.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
He already hits the ball the other way!
That’s the oddity. He’s smacking grounders into RF a lot of the time. Len and Bob were saying teams are likely to start putting on a semi-LH shift for him.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
No, you've missed my point.
When I said “the other way”, I meant the other way from where he HAS been hitting—to RF. He has to adjust if the other teams put a shift on.
Hope that makes more sense now.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
I see.
My bad. Yeah, I agree. He’s got to start pulling the ball every once in a while. Coincidentally, I’d like to see Dome try and yank the ball down the RF a little more often…
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
Cedeno's RZR is on, what, a dozen BIZ opportunities?
You can’t draw any conclusions from that. Theriot has well over 130 BIZ opportunities. That’s the difference there.
cwyers - June 7, 2008
Cedeno showed last night why he's not starting....
....Kuroda made almost all our hitters look bad at one time or another, but Cedeno came up and instead of chasing a sucker pitch away like Alf and Lee kept doing, he stood there and took a good pitch down the middle for strike 3, then turned around and beefed at the ump.
This is one of the catchiest of catch 22’s for Lou. Having a guy with an OBP of over .400 near the top of the order REALLY helps the offense. Riot is also a real tough out, regardless of the pitcher’s stuff. If you upgrade the D somewhat with another, you either significantly hurt the O or you sit a real hear and soul player like DeRosa.
IMO…for now Lou needs to stand pat. The results have been solid so far. Better plays could have been made last night. BUT…the half full view is this: Kuroda was spectacular last night (I picked him up off waivers in one of my fantasy leagues by the 8th inning) and Gallagher did a commendable job—-AGAIN…I’d rather have Theriot and all the players we didn’t trade for Brian Roberts then vice versa….Andy MacPhail can bite our collective shorts.
cubfever7 - June 7, 2008
that last
I certainly agree with—BRo is the best trade we didn’t make.
drewishdrewid - June 7, 2008
+1
“Kuroda made almost all our hitters look bad at one time or another, but Cedeno came up and instead of chasing a sucker pitch away like Alf and Lee kept doing, he stood there and took a good pitch down the middle for strike 3, then turned around and beefed at the ump.”
PrincetonCubs - June 7, 2008
He didn't beef.
He asked the ump where it was, got his answer and walked off. Rammy and Jeff Kent were the only ones that “beefed” with the ump.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
hitting .320
is nice, but there are balls he’s not getting to, and there are doubles and triples he’s not hitting. He’s a good back-up.
drewishdrewid - June 7, 2008
Huh?
Seriously, I’m trying to wrap my head around this one. There are doubles and triples he’s not hitting? So we’re going to criticize him for hitting a slew of singles?
BeerCub - June 7, 2008
It's simply a point of concern moving forward...
As long as Theriot is hitting .320+, his lack of power isn’t a problem. The concern is that even Theriot’s biggest supporters don’t really expect him to continue to hit this well. And if he’s hitting .280, he becomes a liability at the plate due to his lack of power. And considering he’s below average defensively, that would make him an overall liability.
It’s an argument that admittedly looks strange at the moment, with the .320+ AVG and .400+ OBP. But it’s one that shouldn’t be ignored moving forward.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
+1
drewishdrewid - June 7, 2008
It's easy to do...
but the umpiring was horrid last night. The play at first with Fukudome changed the game (would it have mattered in the long run the way Kuroda was throwing? probably not but no one knows for sure) and Kent getting run was baloney.
Blue was itching for a fight on that one. He blew the punchout and from what I could tell of the Dodger broadcast replay goaded Kent into “calling him a name umpires don’t like to be called” to quote Bull Durham.
Isn’t it Angel Hernandez due behind the dish today? That should be great. Where’s Mongo!
Gibbon Jockey - June 7, 2008
That homeplate ump told Kent three times
to “go take the field,” and Kent kept snapping at him. The ump didn’t bait him. In fact, he gave him three chances before he tossed him.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
No way
NO shortstop in baseball turns two on the SLOW grounder to Theriot. Yes, he should have charged it more and gotten the out at first but I think the runner going to third made it hard for Theriot to see just how soft that ball was hit.
Muehl - June 7, 2008
called strike on kent
probably the worst called strike I’ve ever seen! The call at first with Fukodome may be the worst call on first I’ve ever seen. The umpires had way too much influence on the outcome of this game. Kuroda may have had some too I guess.
Muehl - June 7, 2008
Kent is a well known hothead
so it didn’t take the ump much to get his motor running. But that was the one of the worst I’ve ever seen too so I don’t blame Kent at all. Afterwards, Torre had a quiet discussion with the ump – does he ever get angry?
JFCubFan - June 7, 2008
That was a truly awful call. Kent was right to be pissed,
but when the ump tells you to take the field, it’s best to walk away. Kent is a stooge.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
Galllagher
3 hits and 6 K’s in 5 innings. The 3 walks and 89 pitches is for 5 innings is too high but this kid is doing OK as our #5. We give him some run support last night he gets a W. He’s worth keeping in there at least for now.
mrcubsfan - June 7, 2008
Yep. Gallagher's done well enough to keep a spot in the rotation.
Certainly better than Marquis… Gallagher’s gotten out of his jams, and doesn’t seem to lose confidence out there.
SackMan - June 7, 2008
+1
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
no offense Al
but how could anyone possibly think that the ground ball to Theriot was more gamechanging than the blown DP call? the former was a play where it would have been nice to get one out on a ground ball-as said above, I don’t think anyone gets two on that play-but there are still two men on base with one out…there’s a high probability that the outcome is the same (one run.) how is that more important than a play that literally took a run off the board? I don’t think that computes…it just seems like an excuse to bag on Theriot.
either way, you’re right, it probably wouldn’t have mattered either way, since Kuroda was absolutely dealing. the pitch to Aramis with Theriot on 3rd was ridiculous.
PrincetonCubs - June 7, 2008
I agree...
That call is made and the score is 1-1 and Gallagher has some momentum heading into the next inning. One never knows what a simple play can do…I feel it was rather deflating to be threatening and come up with nothing.
Kansas25 - June 7, 2008
In fairness to Al...
if he thought it was a potential DP ball, then it’s fair to discuss the play as being important. Two outs with a runner on third would mean the following groundout doesn’t score any runs.
But as I said above, I don’t think it was possible to get a DP on that play. As such, I agree – the blown call at 1B was much bigger. It was bigger either way, as it would have meant at least one run (same as missing the “DP opportunity” by Theriot), and maybe more.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
Maybe it couldn't have been a DP.
But it certainly should have been at least ONE out. The Dodgers probably don’t score in that inning if that play is made, and then it’s only 1-0 instead of 2-0.
But you are all correct, the blown call in the 1st was far more important.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
No, they probably still score...
as the runner is still on third base when the weak grounder happens on the next play.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
Yeah, It Was a Bad Call
and yeah, Kuroda was masterful but… I just thought we lost plate discipline last night. I missed the first time through the order so I don’t know if Kuroda set us up with stuff right down the pike but it appeared to me like we were really hacking throughout the game. We really swung at a lot of first and scond pitches which were missed or dribbled. The pitch count (I failed to double check the exact number of pitches but I know it was relatively low) certainly supports this. We may have been beaten anyway, but that certainly seemed to help the Dodger cause.
Luigi - June 7, 2008
They did swing at a lot of pitches out of the strike zone...
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
that one K by Aramis
looked VERY bad.
drewishdrewid - June 7, 2008
Yeah, that was a backbreaker...
With runners on first and third and no outs and Ramirez (who doesn’t strike out often) up, I felt pretty confident we’d get at least one run. That was the opportunity, and between Ramirez’s K and the bad call on Fukudome, it was a costly inning.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
Give Kuroda credit though..
that was one filthy slider he threw to A-Ram.
Bump Bailey - June 7, 2008
+1
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
Hacking is a result of good pitching
DLee said Kuroda had the best slider he’s seen all year and he was throwing in the high 90’s. The Cubs batters were just guessing all night long. If they swing (Dlee & Aram) the ball leaves the strike zone, if they don’t (cedeno) its right down the middle.
Muehl - June 7, 2008
You Betcha!
Good pitching will cause a lot of hacking. I just thought there appeared to be too many first and second pitch swings and I would think that after the first time through the order folks would be a little more patient in their approaches. Does anyone count first and second pitch swings? Maybe I’m all wrong here, it just seemed like they all thought if they didn’t swing at the first pitch they wouldn’t get anything better and once Kuroda and Matin picked up on this they milked them dry by deliberately staying out of the zone and immediately getting into pitchers counts.
Luigi - June 7, 2008
Get them back today
It’s not about winning games, its about winning series’!
Lou In Blue - June 7, 2008
AMEN
Muehl - June 7, 2008
Thirded.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
word-ed
drewishdrewid - June 7, 2008
Theriot and Edmonds
No way Theriot has a chance for a double play. No one is claiming he’s the second coming of a Hall of Fame shortstop, but enough with the “he’s hurting the team” already. They’re in first. It’s been a remarkable year so far. Sometimes I think there’s a reason Cub fans get pigeon-holed as they do. If you don’t have something to complain about, are you all not happy?
And before the usual suspects pony up how horrible his defense is, think about this- if he’s the biggest hole in the line up, things aren’t so bad. Relax a little.
Meanwhile, look ar Edmonds’ stats from the link since he’s been a Cub.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/e/edmonji01.shtml
Not great, but I bet hardly anyone thought he has even that much left in the tank.
BeerCub - June 7, 2008
Yes, if Edmonds is able to keep this up, I'll be very pleased...
a 101 OPS+ is just fine, especially considering how strong we are at other spots offensively.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
Yeah...
...and I really should have written “had” that much left as opposed to “has” that much left, because it implies he’ll keep it up. Nice if he does of course, but given his gradual decline, not supported by much except maybe a huge desire on his part to show people they were wrong.
BeerCub - June 7, 2008
Agreed
I HOPE Edmonds keeps it going, but the trends over the past three years (as well as his age) don’t make me overly confident that he will.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
Random Statistic
I was watching the Rockies/Brewers game last night, and they flashed a quick stat up (and sorry this is vague) showing the hottest batting averages in the past 10 days. Theriot was the 4th on the list. Can’t really expand on it, but I wouldn’t have thought he would be on that list.
Lou In Blue - June 7, 2008
In Theriot's last ten games...
... including last night, he is hitting .429/.512/.457, which is pretty damn impressive.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
Thanks!
n/t
Lou In Blue - June 7, 2008
It still doesn't mean Theriot should be the everyday SS.
He’s done an OK job, though his defense is suspect.
Ronny Cedeno should get more playing time.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
But Cedeno overthrows the 6'5" D-LEE over at first.
Pick your poison.
SackMan - June 7, 2008
LOL
Actually, Cedeno’s been a little better at making accurate throws this year.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
Some sort of regular rotation between Theriot, Cedeno, and DeRosa would serve them all well.
Giving Cedeno some starts at both SS and 2B, while giving Theriot and DeRosa the occasional day off. And of course, you can always find a day for Fontenot vs a righty, although his glove is probably the worst of the bunch.
SackMan - June 7, 2008
I agree with this...
Although it is hard to argue with the fact that both DeRosa and Theriot have great OBP. As long as they don’t glaringly stink (Theriot’s weaknesses tend to be less obvious/glaring than Cedeno’s past mistakes), Piniella’s going to stick with them.
But yeah, I think a three-man rotation would be wise.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
AMEN!! A compromise and....
...it servers to keep them all fresh and sharp simulntaneously….
cubfever7 - June 7, 2008
give him more playing time
and his comfort level will rise. When every play is an audition, it’s overly stressful.
drewishdrewid - June 7, 2008
Theriot did that the other night too...
Bump Bailey - June 7, 2008
Actually, that was Theriot who overthrew Lee, but whatever.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
I still can't figure out how he did that.
I mean, seriously. Who knew he had the arm?
cwyers - June 7, 2008
That looked to me to be more about release point than arm strength.
He let it go way too early and it sailed on him.
gary varsho - June 7, 2008
Please Don't Take
my procrastination binky away! I’m sitting in a coffee house accessing the internets because yesterday morning my &^&%$ provider “experienced an unplanned outage.” That means that much as I looked forward to it I won’t be able to join the fun during this afternoon’s game. Life can be cruel.
As for last night’s game that was the most frustrated I’ve seen the Cubs in a long time and certainly the most frustrated this season. Even our coolly collected Dome became demonstrative following that ump’s call, reasonably so.
Still, cap’s off to Kuroda. That was some game he pitched.
Emelie - June 7, 2008
Awww, that sucks Em.
Hope it gets fixed soon so you can join us again.
sue369 - June 7, 2008
Eh. That was dissapointing.
We haven’t done much with the bats the past few days… but we’ve gotten some very good pitching performances. Go figure.
At least Gallagher looked pretty good again. May have turned out different if they don’t blow that call on first, as Al pointed out… and if Gallagher comes up with that chopper to the mound with the bases loaded.
On a side note… the squeeze play took every last breath out of me last night. Ughh.
SackMan - June 7, 2008
Today's lineup
According to Wittenmeyer, DeRosa and Edmonds are going to sit today. I don’t get it…why not rest Lee instead and have DeRosa play first?
Shanghai Badger - June 7, 2008
You believe everything Wittenmyer says?
If it’s true, he’s playing matchups. Edmonds is 5-for-30 lifetime vs. Lowe; DeRosa is 1-for-8 and Johnson (who will play CF) is 3-for-8 with 4 RBI.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
Makes sense to me...
Edmonds sat against Lowe the last time we faced him, too, if I recall correctly.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
I meant more DeRosa sitting instead of Lee
Shanghai Badger - June 7, 2008
Maybe Lee has good stats against Lowe...
as DeRosa does not.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
27 PA
400/444/560
1 HR
5 RBI
Waveland Ave - June 7, 2008
And there's your answer...
Lee isn’t sitting because he historically hits Lowe well, while DeRosa does not.
SouthernCub - June 7, 2008
dare i say
slump buster?
Waveland Ave - June 7, 2008
gawd
I hope so.
drewishdrewid - June 7, 2008
agreed...and I'm not of the school that Lee needs to sit
...because he’s struggling right now. There is little evidence that a day off will make a difference for a guy like Lee. He has always been a 155+ games a year player (outside of the wrist year)
With his history of hitting well in June, I think he needs to play his way out of this….
JB 23 - June 7, 2008
well, that makes sense, then
Shanghai Badger - June 7, 2008
I take most with a grain of salt, but don't know why he'd make that up
The matchup info makes sense, although I don’t put much stock into 8 at-bats.
Shanghai Badger - June 7, 2008
Kuroda
kept the Cubs guessing all night. I kept hoping they’d figure him out, but the guy was pitching lights out. Fukudome was HOT about that blown call at first. Thats as mad as I’ve seen him so far. Calls that bad sicken me, as that was the one chance the Cubs had to shake up Kuroda. He just got into a serious groove after that.
tedinSoCal - June 7, 2008
Too bad he doesn't know enough English to argue!
Should have started yelling at the ump in Japanese – could have called him & his loved ones every name in the book and the ump wouldn’t have a clue.
JFCubFan - June 7, 2008
Lol
He [umpire] probably would have assumed Fukudome wasn’t saying “that was a great call!” He would have tossed him right off the bat.
Lou In Blue - June 7, 2008
IIRC, in Japan
players don’t argue with umpires. Why would he start doing so in the US? Very uncool.
bubbamike the one and only - June 7, 2008
Agreed.
The only time we saw Fukudome angry like that was the YouTube video that showed him throwing his bat (IIRC) after he was called out on strikes on a really bad call. I can’t see him doing that in the US, not in his first year here, anyway.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
Fox
I’m curious to know (and Al you might cover this in the game thread) what game will be on fox today in my neck of the woods. Anyone know what the breakdown is today?
Lou In Blue - June 7, 2008
The answer to your question...
... and to anyone else who wants to know, can be found here.
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
Dag Nab it!
I get the Mariners/Red Sux game. I hate you Fox! Thank goodness for Gameday Audio!
bubbamike the one and only - June 7, 2008
OT- Cedric Benson arrested again
Unreal, if Angelo doesnt cut him by Monday he should lose his job.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-cedric-benson-arrested-060608,0,2897566.story” “
It’s incomprehensible to me that Benson would put himself in this postion, in the same town 30 days later.
JB 23 - June 7, 2008
Hopefully Angelo remebers this saying:"
Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me”
eswan9 - June 7, 2008
Am I the only one who cringed when Lee slammed his bat....
...and broke it on the ground? My first thought was: is that the wrist he broke?
cubfever7 - June 7, 2008
Anyone else still believe he wasn't drunk on that boat?
Al Yellon - June 7, 2008
you mean like Tank clubbing till the wee hours of the morning right after "gun-gate"?
Incomprehensible to normal folks like you and me, but most celebrated athletes clearly march to the beat of a different drummer…
ballhawk - June 7, 2008
Obviously some
people never learn. I think he’s history.
sue369 - June 7, 2008
Even watching Fox w Pat & Ron for audio
sucks. The incessant and insipid video graphics are a constant annoyance. As a professional, don’t they drive you crazy, Al?
santo4hof - June 8, 2008
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