Bleed Cubbie Blue

that's today!!

Great Game last night.....

Z was awsome. My wife loved the shots of Z, Lou and Larry arguing about him coming out of the game…My worst worry was that I would run out of pause time on the DVR because the fireworks show we viewed from the ‘upper deck’ of our yard was late…..but it was, as always, spectacular!! Kerry looks so intense, yet relaxed when the game is on the line….

Today, I get cartoon Cubs, as our Fox station is showing Yanks – RedSox….grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I hope everyone had a great 4th!!

Glaus shouldn't have been surprised....

The way he reacted to that 2nd strike was showing up the umpire. The next pitch was at exactly the same place. Did he really expect the umpire to call THAT one a ball after his theatrics? Really surprising from a veteran major leaguer, but then again, I know nothing about Troy Glaus.

Nice outing by the pen. Howry pitched great and at least had Pujols up in the perfect situation-—nobody on. Great strikeout by Cotts. I have to believe he’s gotta come through the 2nd half if Marmol continues to struggle. Wood was lights out. That hit by Molina was a fluke—-both of his hits were.

From a Cards fan...

I think the biggest problem for the Cards fans was how the ump had a beef to pick with Glaus. If an umpire feels that he has to prove himself by making another bad call (strike three) to teach Glaus a lesson, that is just ridiculous. Toss Glaus if you don’t like what he did, but a strike is a strike, and should never change.

NorseKaiser - July 5, 2008 reply

A reminder about Damon

When he returned to Fenway Red-Sox fans dropped dollar bills onto him in the outfield. I also think they chanted “sell-out”. Could be wrong about the chant though…

ak123 - July 5, 2008 reply

Another reminder...

Damon was a free agent and signed with the Yankees. Edmonds was traded to another team and we picked him up off the scrap heap.

good point

Boston also had an offer on the table to Damon. I think the Difference was like 3 mil. I’d call him a sell out too if I was a BoSox fan. Imagine Ramirez signing a free agent deal with the Cards when we had a comperable offer on the table.

BradB311 - July 5, 2008 reply

The dollar bills

were in Texas when A-Rod made his return as a Yankee. Damon received a loud standing ovation in his first at bat at Fenway as a Yankee, and has been loudly booed ever since.

Less is Walrond - July 5, 2008 reply

Sign At Fenway

When Damon first returned as a Yankee:

“Looks Like Jesus, Acts Like Judas, Throws Like Mary”.

Damon

I think Damon left Boston because the Red Sox offered him a three-year while the Yankees offered hin four-years at a comparable salary.

sweetswinger - July 5, 2008 reply

No, you're right. They still call him "Johnny Demon."

The difference is not only the hate between those two teams. As carmen_fanzone pointed out, Edmonds was traded while Damon left as a free agent.

Fraggin Judge - July 5, 2008 reply

True enough.

Still, Damon was a key part of a Red Sox championship team. You’d think they would have cut him a little slack for that, as they did with Derek Lowe.

True enough.

Still, Damon was a key part of a Red Sox championship team. You’d think they would have cut him a little slack for that, as they did with Derek Lowe.

northsider - July 5, 2008 reply

With a Cubs win and Brewers win,

the Cards will find themselves in a virtual tie after today. I know the Cards won’t go away easily but this could signal the start of a new chase with the Brewers hot on our heels and the Cardinals chasing them. Somehow I would rather have the Brewers start losing because they really bug me with their lineup. I guess we just have to take care of our business and not worry about the rest.

mrcubsfan - July 5, 2008 reply

Let's focus on the Cardinals this weekend... and take of that first.

I was dreaming of a sweep last night… that would be HUGE.

SackMan - July 5, 2008 reply

Agreed. We can't control what the Suds do.

Let’s just get the Lilly game in the win column and really put the pressure on these RedBirds.

Just take care of business and let the rest fall where it falls. If the cubs start worrying about the brewers, wild card, etc, that’s when you start losing. Just focus on today(tonight for me), win and then worry about the rest later. Nice to see the bullpen was able to make 2 runs hold up. Don’t like howry giving up a run in such a close game, but at least the damage was one run.

nmcubsfan - July 5, 2008 reply

If the Cubs lose, I switch the TV off right after the last out. When they win, I’ll leave it on for a while to savor it.

Ditto. I don’t even watch Baseball Tonight or listen to Cubscast on days when the Cubs lose.

gewurztraminer - July 5, 2008 reply

I also turn the TV off immediately when the Cubs lose, sometimes before the end of the game I’ve had enough. But when they when I watch everything. I get so disappointed when the games aren’t on WGN and they don’t show the fans singing. Really love that 10th inning.

mlern - July 5, 2008 reply

check out ...

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/ reacp. He says that the reason that the Cards lost was because of an inconsistent strike zone. Do any of you agree?

Great win last night… let’s do it again today!

cubswgnrocks - July 5, 2008 reply

I read some of that earlier

What a long post to say they were robbed by the ump. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

LT - July 5, 2008 reply

That poster...

badly needs an editor.

DaBard - July 5, 2008 reply

No

I didn’t watch the whole game but to say it was the “worst umpire performance ever” (paraphrased) based on two ABs with a questionable strike zone is silly. I wasn’t paying attention to the balls called on 1-2 and 2-2 to Soto so I can’t comment on those, but to be honest, the two pitches to Glaus were definitely balls. They didn’t appear to be strikes and weren’t strikes so I dunno what Al is talking about there. Soto set up on the outside corner and reached out to catch the pitch. Glaus had a legitimate beef (although at least the 2nd pitch was consistent so he shouldn’t have been surprised). But that surely didn’t cost them the game.

grifdog - July 5, 2008 reply

Same thing about leaving the TV on after wins

and doing something, anything, else after a loss. I’m even less inclined to watch ANY replays, save catching a Cardinal or Brewer score.

I’d be interested to see the ratings drop for the 10th Inning Show after a loss as opposed to a win.

Cardinal fan here

I am not one to say the ump EVER cost a team a game. I don’t even care that Glaus struck out. There is no way to know if he would have scored or not. The only problem I have is with the Soto at bat. If those pitches were strikes to Glaus then the definitely were to Soto. And the one thing I do know is that did make a difference. If Glaus is out on strikes the Soto is as well. NO HOMERUN = TIE GAME.

The good news is there is a lot of baseball left to go, most important, todays game.
Best of luck to you guys at the BCB, but I think our redbirds are going to even this series up (that way I don’t have to see any cubs fans carrying brooms when I go to the game on Sunday).

I think you just said

that the ump cost you the game, no matter what you said in your first sentence.

But it’s a ridiculous argument anyway.

Josh Timmers - July 5, 2008 reply

I said the ump made a bad call, that's it

One run wasn’t going to win that game, so we still needed to find another way. Last time I check 1-1 can’t win a game. We still can’t know the outcome. Knowing our bullpen the cubs still would have a an excellent chance to win. Not trying to piss anybody off, but if it was the other way around I bet this blog would have some complaints about the umpire.

Yes, we probably would be upset.

But I’d be more upset the team didn’t do something with the other 26 outs at their disposal.

agree

We have to find another way to win. I tip my hat to the cubs for the win. Soto got a chance and took full advantage of it. That is how you win close games. If we were going to win we had to take advantage of the cubs one mistake. We got a break when Theriot missed the ball on the botched hit and run. with one out and our #2 and #3 hitter up we HAVE to find a way to score him to beat good teams/good pitching.

Leaving runners in scoring position on the bags always is a killer.

Especially in a one-run game. Trust me, we’ve had our share this year.

I think one of the standout moments was Z going after Pujols with a man on second, first open, and two outs. That was an incredibly gutsy call that paid off.

yeah

That is a big decision. Funny thing is, watching Z pitch against us the past few years I have a feeling Lou could have told him to walk him and Z pitch to him anyway. That is the sign of a winner. He wants to show his best stuff in the most important situations. I just wish our winner (Pujols) would have came out on top.

Cards Role Players

It’s amazing how you guys find these role players from Skip Schumacher to Joe McEwing year after year. Who’s heard of these guys? Why don’t they continue to do as well when they move onto another club? Does LaRussa have a degree in the dark arts or what?

Darth LaRu.

HAHAHA

aided by the Grand Moff Duncan.

It is a good job by LaRussa

But you have to admit, nobody thought Soto would be anything close to what he is. Talk about a career minor leaguer who figured it out last year and now has erupted at the big league leve.

He came in on fire late last year

and has just continued. He definitely deserves the All Star bid and may nab ROTY.

Not so surprising about Soto...

Player of the year at AAA in his league.

And a huge September in the majors, earning playing time.

Fraggin Judge - July 5, 2008 reply

And, with Soto

his catching and handling of the staff here has been nothing short of remarkable. His hitting is a great bonus.

No Kidding....

And the cast offs that Duncan turns into great pitchers…...I think Duncan should go to the HOF. What he does (and has done for about 25 years) with pitchers is the stuff of legend. I wish we had him.

No kidding.

If Lou ordered Carlos to unintentionally intentionally walk him, Z would flirt as much as possible with the corners. It’s funny, because no matter how much Pujols scares me anytime he steps in the box, I feel so confident with Zambrano in there.

Here’s hoping a ton of brooms greet you on Sunday. ;)

OUCH

Nothing would be worse then seeing a bunch of blue shirts with brooms on Sunday. Of course if we win on Sunday there would be a lot of broke broomsticks laying around the stadium. But, I would feel alot better winning 2 of 3. I wish we were seeing Marquis instead of Lilly!!

That makes one of us.

I wish we were seeing Marquis also.....

pitching in this series…..AS A CARDINAL!!!!!

nicely played

+trade

trade okay

you can have adam kennedy and Chris Duncan for Marquis and 5 ash bats. (NO maple bats please, we can’t afford any more injured players)

Just wanted to say...

... thanks to you, hoofhearted, for coming here and having some GOOD discussions about this rivalry and about these games without it degenerating.

This is what I mean when I say this is a great rivalry with respect on both sides.

you keep chris

we’ll take his old man

BradB311 - July 5, 2008 reply

The other thing to consider is

how Howry would have pitched Pujols with a 1-0 lead? A non intentional walk might have been in order instead of going after him.

LT - July 5, 2008 reply

+1

Redbird fan: let me tell you how many games we have had awful calls

at first go against us that have cost the Cubs a run in tight games. $*it happens. Good teams will fight through it, even if they lose games on bad calls, they will bounce back.

I do agree that ump strike zones have been getting more inconsistent, not less. Very frustrating for hitters.

bubbamike the one and only - July 5, 2008 reply

+1

Well said. I’d also be upset that the batter was not protecting that outside corner in that count, especially given the call the umpire had made mere moments before.

Goodie1969 - July 5, 2008 reply

You need to understand

it is a ridiculous argument when you make it and a valid one when we make it.;-P.

Here’s the scoop, if you score enough runs, take advantage of all your opportunities then you don’t have to worry about close calls. Good teams win the close ones. I hope the Cubs sweep, but I know that the Cards are a better team than they appear on paper and they have a good manager. I look forward to a good series.

When I go to a Cubs-Cards game I enjoy the friendly rivalry with the Cards fans. Most of them are good people.

The problem is, you're calling balls and strikes off a TV screen.

Because of parallax, you don’t have an accurate view of the strike zone, and so you really don’t know if those were balls or strikes.

the t.v. angle doesn't move

I don’t care if it was a ball or strike, but the pitches to Soto and Glaus were in the same spot. So it can’t be a ball to one and a strike to the other.

Looking at Gameday, the pitches to Soto were a bit lower than the pitches to Glaus.

And they were right around the knees of the animated figure, so a little bit of height could make a difference as to whether they were out of the zone.

You trust Gameday over a TV screen?

Not trying to be a wise-ass – I’m just wondering if you know more about how Gameday works. Is there some different technology Gameday is using to determine pitch location or is it also dependent on the whims of a camera angle.

I didn’t see the at-bat in question, but logic tells me that hoofhearted,pujols? (interesting user name – care to share the story behind it?) has a point about consistency. If pitches were in same spot, they should both be balls or both be strikes. Of course, that’s a big if…

never mind, just read your post below about PitchF/X. Does Gameday use this technology?

Yeah.

ESPN’s K-Zone uses it as well. (Fox Sports Net has a similar product which does NOT use Sportsvision’s technology, and I have concerns about it.)

For any individual pitch, there are errors and inconsistencies in the Gameday data that you have to worry about. In aggregate it’s wonderful stuff.

Handling 3-4-5 Was The Key

First off, I happen to believe that a game CAN be decided on one call or one play. Take your pick from the 2003 NLCS or the 1985 World Series.

But still, I think the reason the Cubs won (or Cards lost) is was because Pujols was kept to just a solo HR and infield single and Ankiel-Glaus were hitless. I was literally on the edge of my seat during their at-bats, hoping Z wouldn’t get too excited.

I get your main point, but disagree about 2003

If Moises doesn’t have a hissy, if Prior gets a batter out, if Gonzalez picks up a routine double-play ball, if Sosa hits the cutoff man. No one play did it—although 95% of the baseball world outside of Cubs fans point to a foul ball. Most Cubs fans point to the grounder. But there were a lot of things that went wrong, where ANY ONE of them could have prevented the meltdown.

Good Points

I would definitely not say “you’re wrong” to you or anyone else of that opinion. Perhaps what I should have said was that one play can decide a game or series when the margin for error is the breadth of a hair.

2003: Cubs did themselves no favors by scoring only 3 runs through the 8th inning. And maybe Prior doesn’t walk Castillo and retires Pudge and Miggy if Dusty had removed him early in Game 2. Not sure if AGonz turns the DP but they at least get the 2nd out if he keeps his glove down.

1985: Can’t remember enough about the game to point out key moments when the Cards should have scored more runs, so I’ll let some of the St. Louis fans help me out here.

Throw 1986 in there

I’m so very tired of Don Denkinger, Bill Buckner and Steve Bartman having their lives changed.

Hello, McFly? THERE WERE GAME 7’s each time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DaBard - July 5, 2008 reply

Not only that, but in 1986 the game was tied

Boston had already squandered a 2-run lead with 2 outs and the bases empty before the infamous play.

OK Biff....

Excellent point. Not sure about the Cards but it’s worth noting that the Cubs and Red Sox had the lead at one point in those Game 7s. In both cases, better managing of the pitching would have changed the outcomes.

Well if Alou makes that catch

the pitching pattern changes, there is no DP in order so no rush to field and get a quick release to 2B for the DP, on and on, etc , etc….....It just shows that, no matter what happens, we do not know the outcome of ANY event in life in an “if only” scenario.

All that said, the Cubs imploded.

What he's saying

Is that the TV camera, which isn’t stereoscopic and which comes from almost directly behind the pitch, doesn’t give a very good idea of depth. The umpire has stereoscopic vision and is looking from above, so he has a better idea of how far along the ball is in its journey to the plate. From TV you get a great view of where the ball was caught, but it’s hard to tell on close pitches just where the ball was as it crossed the hitting area.

Google isn’t providing me with links to technical data on Pitch FX. I assume that even though it appears to give an X-Y location for every pitch it’s also tracking the Z, and that it has at least two cameras. Anyone know about this?

aldimond - July 5, 2008 reply

It's lack of depth AND a parallax shift.

PitchF/X uses multiple cameras and tracks the trajectory of the ball in flight. Sportsvision has done tests using a foam board target, and its accuracy is to within an inch. You can read a lot more about it here.

Umps Must Hate That Stuff

Maybe that’s why they collectively have a chip on their shoulder the past couple years.

In sports, especially baseball, or softball that I play, you never let the umps decide the game. When your at bat, you bat. If the ump is calling them strikes a mile off the plate, then it’s a mile off the plate, and you adjust. this woulda, coulda, shoulda stuff just tears me up. No offense, but the never Acquiece mentioned a good point. There are 27 outs in a baseball game, the glaus strikeout was one. There were still 26 chances to make something happen and your team didn’t do it. Bottom line, you don’t let the umps, or the strike zone, or the safe/out calls determine the game. You play, you hit, you field, and you take care of business. Balls/Strikes always has been, and always will be a judgement call. As much as we would like, we’re never going to have the view that the home plate ump has. MLB, gameday, the myriad camera angles that ESPN, WGN and all the networks use, will never compare to what the ump sees. So leaving it up to the ump, and watching close pitches go by, especially when you have two strikes is just bad batting. Either way, game over, let’s move on, and get them again tonight.

nmcubsfan - July 5, 2008 reply

I don't think hoofhearted is blaming the ump

And I am not calling you or anyone else specifically out with what follows:

Just because he/she is a fan of the other team, it doesn’t mean that the posts are making excuses. There is nothing wrong with pointing out what is perceived as an inconsistency. Some of the bitching that I see here about the umps during gamethreads is beyond Santo-eqsue, but it’s ok because clearly anytime a call goes against the Cubs, “we got screwed”.

I think hoofhearted is being gracious with the first post above, giving the Cubs credit. I’d hate to see civil discussions with fans of other teams not be possible just because they are fans of other teams.

Polite Discourse Always Welcome

from the opposition. My opinion anyways!

+1

Emelie - July 5, 2008 reply

+1

I agree with your take on hoofhearted’s post. We’d do the same thing, and have, on several occasions.

gary varsho - July 5, 2008 reply

Thank You

I enjoy these series because, IMO, cubs fans, in general, are educated baseball minds. Which is what I like. When the Cubs win I am pissed. When the cards lose I am pissed. When the cards lose to the cubs, well you get the point.

On a second note my T.V. was off .5 seconds after Luddy got thrown out. So I think Al’s post was right on with any loyal fan

Exactly.

I remember watching earlier this year and my channel was changed just BEFORE Schumaker’s walkoff cleared the fence.

Confirming an earlier comment - Damon did get cheered by the BoSox fans his first game back

It was a pretty loud standing ovation if I recall. And after that, yep – he did get booed pretty strong the rest of the night. And probably every game since then. I remember reading the articles afterwards where Damon was very appreciative of the ovation and very agreeable to the boos thereafter. It made sense to him – he’s a Yankee now.

And it makes sense to me. First time back – a huge standing ovation and some LSA to a player whose actions and efforts are worthy of such. But after that…

Hey, he’s on the other side now. Treat him as you would any other member of your rival. If you’re the type of fan that boos, then go ahead and boo. If you mumble curses and rub shrunken chicken heads, by all means go for it. And if you’re the type who throws batteries, beer cups, and yells uncalled for epithets, then do that as well – the sooner you get tossed and banned, the better for the rest of us.

Finally – and obviously – the one caveat to the above is the situation when there’s a good chance you could be seeing him for the last time, i.e. Maddux earlier this year at Wrigley, Vizquel in Cleveland just recently, etc. then by all means, give him one more standing ovation, and some serious LSA!!!

+1

Well said. . . and the flip side is, of course, who cares who Edmonds USED to play for? He’s on the Cubs now.

The only reason I was against it is, I thought he was done. I am happy to be proven wrong. Also never liked the “too cool for school act” and still don’t, but that’s got nothing to do with him being a Cardinal in the past.

LaRu's Comments

Anyone think that TLR’s comments that “fine, then, we’ll pretend Edmonds never played here” was meant to rally the troops and/or take EdMo out of his game?

Yes, I do

I think TLR is a master at gamesmanship. We’ll see what kind of an effect it has. Edmonds had an off night, but there are two games to go.

I think TLR is a drunk who easily flies off the handle.

...a mean drunk too

Just Like Billy Martin

only more sober.

Sure about the sober part???

during the day perhaps..

JB 23 - July 5, 2008 reply

Precisely.

I don’t recall one person complaining solely because he was an ex-Cardinal/Cub killer. It was ALL about his perceived inability to produce. And I don’t think any of use have ever been so happy to be proven wrong.

Damon's first at bat at Fenway as a Yankee...

....they booed him for 15 seconds. Damon had said if he was acknowledged, he’d tip his hat. Apparently, he heard enough cheers to justify the tip of his hat, but most say the boos were way more than the cheers. Here’s a fan cam from youtube. You be the judge.

I heard both, but at least from where that fan was standing, the boos definitely sounded louder.

Sure looked like a lot of the crowd was applauding though. Also it’s possible the standing ovation part came during the lineup introductions instead of the first at-bat.

True enough...

.....you can see in the vid, too, that once he tips his hat the cheers grow louder. Pretty interesting stuff.

It has been nice chatting with you

I am going back over to the safe haven of Viva El Birdos. Hope some of you stop by to chat it up on our page.

We'll see...

Enjoy the game today and tomorrow. But not too much.

any parting gifts for the contestant?

We could chip in

and buy him a nice big W flag.

We could give him Ernie Broglio back....

gary varsho - July 5, 2008 reply

Not enough.

Probably have to slip him a crisp twenty on top.

Thanks for stopping in.

gary varsho - July 5, 2008 reply

For LA folks:

today’s game is on Fox Sports Espanol (425 or 616 on DirecTV). So it looks like I have to sync the game between the DVR/TiVo and Pat & Ron on the Internet. Technology is a wonderful thing!

Okay, how do I find out if the NYY/BOS game or the Cubs game is gonna be on Fox in Kansas City??

dtpollitt - July 5, 2008 reply

Check your local listings.

zap2it.com might tell you, if nothing else.

bubbamike the one and only - July 5, 2008 reply

YES

That website worked. Cubbies it is!!

Dan

dtpollitt - July 5, 2008 reply

I would hope you would get the Cubs v Cards in KC...if not

...Fox has lost thier minds….which wouldnt surprise anyone I guess

JB 23 - July 5, 2008 reply

Red Snots-Jankees in Seattle

if I had digital cable and the spanish option I would get Cubs-Cards. But I don’t.;-(

Fox Sports website

has a little box in the corner where you enter your ZIP and it gives local sports coverage.

Or, go to your local Fox channel’s website and it’ll say there.

There's a link I sometimes post...

... that lists all the TV markets and what game they’re carrying. But it hasn’t been updated for this week’s games.