and I’ve only been following on GameCast, but it seems there is a major letdown today. Perhaps this has been a topic on one of the other threads, but I wanted to add my 2 cents worth.
...incuding this one, Jason has had three quality starts out of his last four. THAT IS NOT BAD FOR A #5 STARTER. I do not think you can ask for much more than that from this guy. Stop bitching on him.
He was left off the playoff rosters of STL and the Cubs the last two seasons because he can’t be relied to do ANYTHING. Quality start, whatever, it’s a loss and he’s a bum.
I need not acknowledge facts that refute my feelings! Why can’t you just agree with the rightness of my beliefs?? Stay the course! You’re either with us or against us!
really not that upset about today.. Yea it sucks we lost but we were going to lose more games this season. They had our number today. Marquis really didn’t pitch that bad and the bullpen shut them down. Our offense just didn’t show up today. No worries we’ll get them tomorrow
somedays the other pitcher is just better and that was the case today. But that wasn’t a horrible pitching performance by Marquis. Usually only giving 3 runs is enough to warrent a win if not a no decision
yes that is the case. We did have some innings where we had runners on we just couldn’t get that hit to knock them in. We had some chances just didn’t capitalize. Such is the game.
Cubs were emotionally keyed up and won a big series in Milwaukee, and come home yesterday and regardless of the words were still mentally still up in Milwaukee.
Retrospect Piniella & Co should have played Ward at 1B and rested DLee…
I just don’t think he’s seeing the ball well, and subsequently not swinging at good pitches, and the ones he does get wood on, he can’t square them up. I don’t think it’s a matter of rest at all- it’s a matter of continuing to get his hacks in until he can see the ball better.
i could have been imagining this, but i THOUGHT i heard a radio commercial earlier in the season that featured Soto talking about how he wanted to hit north of .400. i’d say staying above the .270 mark is a good goal.
Tomorrow I expect Piniella to rest one of his stars and juggle his lineup real good…..get everyone’s attention, I would rest Soto again his bat is slow.
I would expect Lilly to pitch well, even though Marquis pitched fair but now is 6-7
He doesn’t have too much of track record—so we don’t know if he can put together a consistent season in the majors. I do want the good defense, but his slump on offense has going on for a little while now.
His numbers won't be as good the rest of the year as they were up until now...
Oh, he’ll come out his slump- I have no doubt. He’s a starting catcher though, and being a starting catcher is an extremely important, and extremely tiring position to play. Think of it, 3,4,5 days in a row, in the heat of the summer, all that gear. So… you gotta get your offense in the beginning of the year, when it’s cool, when it’s early on. This is why Geo is such a great player. Last year he found a way, after catching all year for AAA, and hitting the crap out of the ball I might add, to come up, take over for Kendall, and continue to hit. If Lou can find a way to get him a couple of days a week, he’ll probably come out of his slump, and start hitting again. He’s been trying to pull everything, which is a sign of a tired player. So, with all this said, I think he will provide more than adequate offense as a catcher, and maybe more- we’ll see. I’m just glad he’s so great with the pitching staff, and on defense.
He's a great bat, but he's not vital to the offense.
Anything you get from the catcher is gravy, and in Soto’s case, it’s good gravy & there is a lot of it. He did manage to catch all year for AAA last year, and still have enough of a bat to hit well for the big club when he was called up.
He is a important part of this offense. The threats in this offense are Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Soto and Edmonds to lesser extent. Without his power and bat, this offense is no where as potent.
Now being a catcher as a whole? No you’re not really an important part of the offense. But Brian McCann, Russell Martin, and Geovany Soto are dual threats for their position and a vital part of their teams offense.
That's ok, what a boring world it would be if we all agreed...
I do agree that Martin, McCann & Soto are dual threats, but understand that they are not the norm.
However, Soto is not a vital part of the offense, he’s not a threat- now Fonzie, D. Lee, Rami & ED, (not to a lesser extent), are the threats in the offense. Geo has been slumping, while at the same time, the Cubs blew the Brewers out of the water four games in a row. I think this offense is potent with or without Geo in there. When Geo is hitting, it makes the offense more potent, overwhelming potent.
Like I’ve already pointed out, Soto may be the exception to the norm, and still be able to put up big numbers ending August, and rounding out the regular season. Let me reiterate, he caught all year for AAA last year, hit the crap out of the ball- then take over for Kendall and hit the rest of the way. He’s already done it. He can do it again, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him do so. He just needs a little more rest. Get Hank behind the dish two days a week, he’s great on defense, and the big threats in the offense will carry the offense. When Soto comes out his slump, it’ll be like pouring thick, chunky, tasty chicken gravy all over the offense. It’s the difference b/t a potent offense with a little o, and a potent offense with a big O.
aren’t those the same threats we had for the playoffs last year? the same ones, who in their most important games in the last few years wet their pants in a major way? if those are our only threats, i doubt we’ll win a playoff game.
You obviously don't understand baseball, and this Cubs team at all.
I would hardly classify what happened in the NLDS last year as wetting their pants. They were tired from the pennant chase, and faced some very good pitching. As far as ‘wetting their pants in their most important games of the last few years’, I defy you to find me credible proof of this. Second thought, don’t bother, it doesn’t exist, and you wouldn’t, and/or couldn’t find it if it did exist.
the last couple of years were the three vs. the d-backs in the playoffs last year. all three of their highly paid “run producers” failed. tired? i thought fatigue shouldn’t be a factor (you reference Derek Lee’s stamina multiple times in recent posts). good pitching? livan hernandez and doug davis? interesting. excuses. bad excuses at that.
Oh, now it's so important for you to be right, that you have to refute everything I say.
You need to extrapolate and put words in my mouth. There is a difference between general fatigue, and simply running out of gas. I reference Lee’s durability to play the majority of games as a starter, because it is a FACT.
If you must put words in my mouth, at least get it right. I stated that they were tired from the race for the division title, (which I incorrectly referred to as the pennant chase). I never said that fatigue, (whether it be mental or physical), shouldn’t be a factor. IN FACT, they were obviously mentally and physically fatigued from fighting for the division title. Anybody that watched the NLDS should know that, for it was obvious in their play.
The Diamondbacks had other pitchers that the Cubs faced last year besides just Hernandez & Davis. Try Webb, Valverde, and others.
Coherent debate? I can’t debate someone that refuses to yield to facts, and uses insults and sheer lack of knowledge to bludgeon me with assertions that are not germaine to the debate, and/or discussion at hand. So, continue to state that I offer excuses, when I am in actuality offering FACTS. You can’t hurt my feelings, or bully me into agreeing with your uneducated point of view. All you are doing is showing your ignorance of Major League Baseball.
cubs apologists like yourself amuse me. in the back of your mind you MUST know that the chances of the Cubs winning a playoff series this year are about as good as the chances of the Cubs scoring a run off a stud like Jerry Karstens.
I knew you would throw out the term apologist. Your statement above, that “in the back of your mind you MUST know that the chances of the Cubs winning a playoff series this year are about as good as the chances of the Cubs scoring a run off a stud like Jerry (sic) Karstens.”, is likely the silliest thing I have ever heard.
First off his name is Jeff Karstens, (not Jerry).
Finally, I am no apologist, rather I am a realist. I know that the Cubs have the best roster in the NL, and that their chances of winning a playoff series, (should they get there), are decidedly higher than the Cubs scoring a run against a pitcher that they never faced before (and had no time to prepare for in terms of reliable scouting).
Now, I leave you to spread your vitriol unopposed. I have already comprised my integrity by continuing to debate someone with no knowledge of logic, or the components thereof.
your posts have great entertainment value. it’s especially amusing when you talk about logic (and the components thereof, which is a redundant and odd thing to add). i think you and your boy john karstens deserve each other.
just to get the last word in. What is amusing is your stunning lack of knowledge about logic, and baseball, (evidenced by your rambling posts). It will be funny when people read our posts back & forth, and the rest of the community will laugh at your juvenile observations.
Rather, you attempted to portray my assertion of fact to make it appear as though your reactionary musings about one game had any basis in reality.
I pointed out that you are obviously uneducated about the game of baseball, that you do not understand logic, and that it is more important for you to appear right, than to offer anything to the discussion that is reasonable or realistic. Calling my assertion of facts, quote, “lame excuses”, is insulting. Pointing out your lack of knowledge about MLB, is simply stating the obvious. Lack of knowledge accompanied by spouting off at the mouth is simply ignorant.
I would urge you to study the game of Major League Baseball beyond merely watching a game, and thinking that you know better than the men playing the game. This way, when you spout off, you stand a better chance at appearing at least educated about the topic at hand.
but I just disagree. He plays catcher, but I just think he is a important part of the offense along with Sori, Ramirez, and Lee. I have high expectations of him on both defense and offense.
I have high expectations of him as well, and I think he will perform out of the norm.
He is not a vital part of the offense though. I think you can’t overlook Edmonds as a vital, major threat in the Cubs offense, as you seem to do. Just look at what he did yesterday. Hell, look at what he has done since he was picked up in an extremely shrewd move by Hendry.
Let me say again that I have the same high expectations of Soto on offense, and I think he will go against the norm and will soon start hitting, when he gets some rest. He’s obviously tired, (striking out more, trying to pull the ball too much). Let him get a little rest, and Soto will return to being an extremely potent part of an already potent offense.
Livan is a strike out pitcher, and his SO’s are down, so no- I don’t think they would sign him, not a much better option than Marquis of Marshall for that matter.
and he looked good. There is no way to tell if he’ll be a below average starter, or be in the minors in a year from just this start. It’s very hard to scout a guy who was just traded, and you had no idea that he would be facing the Cubs today. In actuality, Karstens pitched a pretty good game. It’s always a struggle as a batter when you have never faced a guy before. Enough said.
Well, it was his first start in the majors this year...
so I don’t know what you mean. He was facing AAA hitters all year, and hadn’t started in the majors for almost a year. He was facing batters that had seen him plenty of times before in AAA pitching for the Yankees AAA affiliate.
i was referring to his career major league stats. they’re terrible. and the hitters he faced in those 57 innings hadn’t seen him before. it’s just not a valid excuse – never seeing someone before. it’s lame.
He hasn’t pitched in the majors for almost a year. That means that his career ML numbers are old, being that he hasn’t pitched in the majors for almost a year. When they, (his ML #’s), are that old, they really have no bearing on today. They faced a pitcher who they had a last minute scouting report on, who no one had seen in the ML’s for a year! When you don’t have a good scouting report, (and just so you know- a last minute report is not a good scouting report); it is entirely plausible that a team would struggle against a pitcher who they had never faced before. In fact, it happens all the time. It’s realistic, and the farthest thing from either an excuse, or from being lame. Rather, it is a fact, and it is valid. Save your criticism for something that you have a little knowledge on.
those 57 innings might be over a year old, but they were, nevertheless, pitched against hitters who had, for the most part, never seen him before (those innings being the first and only innings he’s ever pitched in MLB). if what you’re saying is that jeff karstens is an above average pitcher (which neither his minor league numbers or his small amount of major league innings bear out) who has improved his stuff in the last year, those numbers might have less relevance. but what our argument seems to be about is the extent to which having never seen a pitcher before (and having a last minute scouting report on, which you were nice enough to point out, as if you have even some small measure of expertise about any of this, are inferior) effects a team’s ability to score runs off of that pitcher. and my point is, which is utterly and thoroughly NOT debatable, is that there were 57 innings worth of major league hitters who had never seen this guy before and still killed him. whether or not he’s a better pitcher now than he was a year ago is completely beside the point. there will be days (a lot of them, especially in the upcoming playoffs) when the Cubs offense doesn’t do its job, but to make excuses for it is lame and not the mark of a winning team.
Even if a team has seen a pitcher once, that is sometimes enough.
How do you know that they’d never seen him before? (Meaning: batted in a game vs. him). He has 9 career starts and 6 relief apperances. It stands to reason that many of those opposing batters had seen him at least once before.
I never suggested that Karstens was an above average pitcher. I’m sure he has improved though, otherwise he would not be in the ML’s. My assertion is that it is entirely plausible that a team, (like the Cubs today), would struggle against a pitcher they had never faced before, and had a poor scouting report on. Pitchers have the advantage over hitters when they’ve never faced them before, and he is throwing well, changing speeds, and spotting his pitches, (as Karstens did today). Ask any major leaguer, call a radio show, (don’t take my word for it- as I know you don’t- b/c you are more concerned about being right).
Additionally, I wasn’t portraying that I had any expertise on what makes a scouting report good or poor. However, it is COMMON SENSE that a last minute scouting report doesn’t allow the hitters the time needed to put into practice what they’ve learned, for sheer lack of time to study the report.
Stating that your point is not debatable does not make it so. I would hardly say that his career numbers showed that major league hitters killed him. The FACT that Karstens is a better pitcher now than a year ago, is not beside the point. He wasn’t a terrible pitcher before, and he is obviously a better pitcher today. He threw a good game today, give him credit. I’m sure it was due to him putting in hard work over the past year, it allowed him to get back to the ML’s.
Lastly, how in the world do you know that there will be days when the Cubs offense struggles, (and doesn’t do its job)? (Especially, in the playoffs). Let me reiterate, lack of experience against a pitcher is not an excuse, and stating that FACT has no correlation as to whether a team is a quote ‘winning’ team.
FIRST!
Kinky Reggae - August 1, 2008
First, again?
flachimesa - August 1, 2008
Nope.
Kinky Reggae - August 1, 2008
I concede to you KR
now. let’s get some runs!
flachimesa - August 1, 2008
Word ups
Kinky Reggae - August 1, 2008
Third
NotSure - August 1, 2008
Hello, NotSure
I’m on the other coast of Florida (Jupiter/WPB)
flachimesa - August 1, 2008
A ha!
I have a good friend from Chi-town (big Cub fan) in Palm Bay….he’s on the City Council there
NotSure - August 1, 2008
Heading to the games in two weeks???
NotSure - August 1, 2008
Fourth, fifth... etc.
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
FIRST
time posting today !!
Basman - August 1, 2008
welcome
flachimesa - August 1, 2008
Thanks,
I have posted before but this just the first for today :)
Basman - August 1, 2008
Welcome to the show
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
the shark
looking pretty darned impressive. i think we’ve really got something here
brian custer - August 1, 2008
He is very poised for a rookie.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
but do you keep him in relief
or work him back up as a starter next year? Me, I’d like to see him starting
chitownhawkeye - August 1, 2008
He may look better starting than Marquis
Kinky Reggae - August 1, 2008
That's talk for next year.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
my vote
starter. let’s not give this kid the “aaron heilman treatment”
brian custer - August 1, 2008
I worry about his changeup, which needs some work, but...
I like the movement he has on his fastball…
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
He'll develop that change-up as he goes...
Needs to throw his fastball more.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
nasty
slider
brian custer - August 1, 2008
no runs off Jeff Karstens?
wtf?
bheidge - August 1, 2008
Hope this thread goes better than the last 2
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
BB for Kosuke
BlueSox - August 1, 2008
I'm feeling lucky
with dome, DLee and Aram due up
DWChaney - August 1, 2008
Good job Dome! Way to work the walk!
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
Good eyes, Dome!
chitownhawkeye - August 1, 2008
Clog those bases!
ReleaseTheHounds - August 1, 2008
SWEET!!
We are going to win!
BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness - August 1, 2008
HERE WE GO CUBBIES, HERE WE GO!
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
Let the fun begin...
arioso - August 1, 2008
lead off walk by Dome
MinnesotaFan - August 1, 2008
We need Lee to WALK
This guy’s wild
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
Nope, first pitch hacking
BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness - August 1, 2008
DP?
bheidge - August 1, 2008
I predict another BB, followed by a double and then a two-run homer.
arioso - August 1, 2008
I predict someone esle taking over PBP. Gotta eat.
BlueSox - August 1, 2008
I will personally drive to whereever you are and give you...
a high five.
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
Wow
I am rotten at a great many things, but clearly none as much so as prognostication.
arioso - August 1, 2008
cmon DLEE
PieFan08 - August 1, 2008
Hes been really disapointing lately, anyone agree?? He should of taken a pitch
PieFan08 - August 1, 2008
Talk about what have you done for me lately....
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
Man, Dlee didn't even look at any pitches....
DWChaney - August 1, 2008
He saw his pitch and took a good hack.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
We just need that ONE big hit today
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
or three
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
Maybe...
All the Cubbies just need to take a nap from the excitement in Milwaukee…
Hilary Lee - August 1, 2008
3-2. Look for your pitch Rami!
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
Easy here Rami
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
Please Jimmy Baseball....do your thing
sue369 - August 1, 2008
I'm scared...
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
It'll be ok
sue369 - August 1, 2008
Haha
Thanks
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
Ball 4
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
Ok Jedmon
Can you be the hero today?
love the ivy - August 1, 2008
Keep on cloggin'
Blue W - August 1, 2008
Most likely gonna see reed pinch hit, im guessing
CubsBall2202 - August 1, 2008
good call
sue369 - August 1, 2008
Is it possible that we weren't focused on this series...
after the last one?
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
A letdown was predictable
californiachicagoan - August 1, 2008
i guess with marquis on the mound...
and never facing this excellent pirates pitcher
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
I agree
sue369 - August 1, 2008
I don't think that's the case at all.
Been making good contact today. Marquis did his job, Cotts did his job. Time for the bats to do their job now!!
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
+5
arioso - August 1, 2008
Walk...1st and 2nd one out, Jedmonds coming up...
NotSure - August 1, 2008
Oh man if Jimmy were to hit one...
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
Awright, Jimmy..
There are two on, a long one gets us tied….
DWChaney - August 1, 2008
bringing in Burnett
flachimesa - August 1, 2008
Good AB Rami!
He didn’t throw you what ya wanted, way to work it for a walk! Now, c’mon ED, do yer thing!!
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
walk walk... 2 in a row. hey, they get us on base... thats good..
MinnesotaFan - August 1, 2008
Just got here...
and I’ve only been following on GameCast, but it seems there is a major letdown today. Perhaps this has been a topic on one of the other threads, but I wanted to add my 2 cents worth.
mondello58 - August 1, 2008
1st pitch fastball from Burnett
smashed for a 3-run HR….
it could happen.
Scrapptastic - August 1, 2008
Tease
neverAcquiesce - August 1, 2008
dang....pinch hitter instead.
Scrapptastic - August 1, 2008
don't do that...
some of us are at work with slow gameday
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
No Kidding!!!
Itchy - August 1, 2008
Pinch hitter???
NotSure - August 1, 2008
Left handed pitcher.
Unique - August 1, 2008
RJ for ED. Lou's playing the percentages.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
C'mon Reed, be scrappy....
NotSure - August 1, 2008
PH
Reed Johnson replaces Edmonds
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
scratches head...
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
Which hand?
californiachicagoan - August 1, 2008
A left handed pitcher.
But shit.
Unique - August 1, 2008
RJ PH
flachimesa - August 1, 2008
2-0 on Reed
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
That's cool, you can walk him, too.
arioso - August 1, 2008
Clog those bases...
NotSure - August 1, 2008
2 for 2 lifetime
with a double and HR
flachimesa - August 1, 2008
i like those odds
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
unfortunately, he's now 2-3
flachimesa - August 1, 2008
Wait for your pitch Reed
Make him throw it you
chitownhawkeye - August 1, 2008
2-1
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
DP
Flag Up - August 1, 2008
Poop...
NotSure - August 1, 2008
f*$k
sue369 - August 1, 2008
ughh so many double plays today
CubsBall2202 - August 1, 2008
isn't that just the 2nd DP
TXCub - August 1, 2008
Yeah, but it's a very numerous 2. :^)
arioso - August 1, 2008
BS!!!!!!!
Kinky Reggae - August 1, 2008
SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT
shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
I was gonna say...
poop, but you pretty much covered it.
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
Owowowowowowowowowow owwwwww!
arioso - August 1, 2008
'Sokay.
Only need the one inning.
arioso - August 1, 2008
bad luck
was it a close play at first
PieFan08 - August 1, 2008
poop
MinnesotaFan - August 1, 2008
Shark again?
sue369 - August 1, 2008
Marmol.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
Nope it's Marmol
sue369 - August 1, 2008
Nice job Reed!
We really blew our wad in Milwaukee! Gonna get shutout at home versus some nobody!!
Itchy - August 1, 2008
Yea
we cant hit the guys with 5+ era’s
Rudey - August 1, 2008
Yep, that's baseball...
NotSure - August 1, 2008
Yep
Itchy - August 1, 2008
i would rather lose
to pittsburgh than milwaukee
bheidge - August 1, 2008
and we are going to lose at least 12+ more times this year
and so is Milw and St L.
You can’t win them all.
flachimesa - August 1, 2008
Oh, well ...
More proof baseball is a funny game.
Sorry, not gonna get too worked up about this.
Not Bruce Froemming - August 1, 2008
They'll recover tomorrow.
I’m not at all surpised by todays game.
sue369 - August 1, 2008
This game ain't over yet...
For the Cubs to win, they’re are going to have to win it in the bottom of the ninth, or tie it- and win in extra.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
atta boy
Reed
bheidge - August 1, 2008
So their manager sez:
“We’re pretty afraid of Edmonds. If only there’s a way we could pitch to Reed Johnson instead. Oh wait!”
arioso - August 1, 2008
Yeah Edmonds kills lefties!!!
Oh wait
californiachicagoan - August 1, 2008
Let's get after them...
in the ninth.
Who’s closing for Pittsburgh?
mondello58 - August 1, 2008
Pirate Parrot
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
Whaqt's
the scouting report on him?
mondello58 - August 1, 2008
Nasty spitball...believe he uses bird poop or something....
NotSure - August 1, 2008
I heard it's a cuddle bone he used to scuff the ball....
DWChaney - August 1, 2008
apparently they have no one with more than two saves
DWChaney - August 1, 2008
So...
it can be done, and it will!!!
mondello58 - August 1, 2008
YES!
Onward to victory!
DWChaney - August 1, 2008
Tyler Yates
the Hawaiian
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
Grabow up
californiachicagoan - August 1, 2008
3 runs is do-able
not likely with the way we’ve been hitting with RISP….........
bheidge - August 1, 2008
And our manager says...
“hmm… Edmonds two homers yesterday… he hits lefties, but i want Reed!”
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
Reed's
been hot.
mondello58 - August 1, 2008
Yeah, I guess you can't second guess the percentages
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
It's called playing the percentages.
If RJ wouldn’t have slipped coming out of the batter’s box, he would have been safe.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
agreed
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
He hits lefties?
He is hitting .182 against them. His slugging is .200 points lower against them then righties.
californiachicagoan - August 1, 2008
I stand corrected... apologies.
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
If you are playing the percentages, you still send up a righty in that situation vs. a lefty in that spot.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
That's why I'm in marketing and not management.
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
I'm callin it now:
BRING OUT THE TROLLS!
And for what it’s worth, Marquis pitched a quality start.
Dan
dtpollitt - August 1, 2008
Seriously, Marquis didn't pitch badly
He kept the game close.
DWChaney - August 1, 2008
I think it was his
2nd or 3rd QS in a row, I’ll have to look,.
dtpollitt - August 1, 2008
Nope, 6 R last outing
John Q Freejazz - August 1, 2008
Okay, I was wrong...
...incuding this one, Jason has had three quality starts out of his last four. THAT IS NOT BAD FOR A #5 STARTER. I do not think you can ask for much more than that from this guy. Stop bitching on him.
dtpollitt - August 1, 2008
This loss is not Marquis' fault.
It’s the offense’s failure to execute. Kind of where we were right after the ASB.
ChipSet - August 1, 2008
Oh no!
We’re going to be in third place by the end of August…The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
NotSure - August 1, 2008
Agreed
It wasn’t what we were hoping for, but then even one run has been too much up til now. Fortunately, we have the offense to do it. Go time!
arioso - August 1, 2008
Quality by definition, yes
But he was giving up hits to nobodies and deflated his teammates early on with his lackluster effort.
Itchy - August 1, 2008
Sounds like a bunch of psychobabble
He had one walk, allowed three runs in 6 innings. Good work.
californiachicagoan - August 1, 2008
I like how you
try to “redefine” the definition of a quality start. FAIL.
dtpollitt - August 1, 2008
He sucks
He was left off the playoff rosters of STL and the Cubs the last two seasons because he can’t be relied to do ANYTHING. Quality start, whatever, it’s a loss and he’s a bum.
Itchy - August 1, 2008
Incorrect.
He was not left off the Cubs playoff roster last season.
daver - August 1, 2008
HE IS A #5 STARTER!!
Number five starters are usually left off playoff rosters?!
dtpollitt - August 1, 2008
Wow, way to stick by your opinion despite actual facts
I dub thee Sir Dubya’.
arioso - August 1, 2008
What facts??
He’s a bum, that’s my opinion. He has a losing record. Why continue this debate and just admit that he not a good pitcher in any role??
Itchy - August 1, 2008
You're not judging a pitcher...
...by his win-loss record, are you?
daver - August 1, 2008
Oh come on, it's obvious that's a valid way to do it!
Hardin’s only 1-1 after four starts. Why couldn’t he close the deal? What a bum!
:^)
arioso - August 1, 2008
I find it funny...
...that this discussion started with me saying “bring out the trolls”; and here we are, daver, speaking with one now! How enlightening…
Dan
dtpollitt - August 1, 2008
It's like summoning Beetlejuice.
daver - August 1, 2008
I always find it so hard
to follow Mark Twain’s advice:
“Never argue with fools. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
arioso - August 1, 2008
Thanks for the great input
you backbiting in-greats!!
Itchy - August 1, 2008
Itchy for president!
I need not acknowledge facts that refute my feelings!
Why can’t you just agree with the rightness of my beliefs??
Stay the course!
You’re either with us or against us!
Itchy ‘08
arioso - August 1, 2008
For real...
He was about two bad luck hits away from a 1 ER outing… not bad.
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
2 down
sue369 - August 1, 2008
2 batters - 2 Ks
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
Marmol is lookin' really strong.
Blue W - August 1, 2008
This game is
Kinky Reggae - August 1, 2008
Ugh..TMI...
NotSure - August 1, 2008
A poorly made dougnut?
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
pumperninckel
bagel
brian custer - August 1, 2008
tootsie roll?
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
pumpernickel bagel?
LAcarl519 - August 1, 2008
Poorly made pumpernickel bagel that is.
Kinky Reggae - August 1, 2008
the Russian judge deducts a 1/2 point for poor execution
(getting int he Olympic spirit!)
LAcarl519 - August 1, 2008
Dominating
Now get White Castle the …
californiachicagoan - August 1, 2008
Damn - Kd the side
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
Ninth Inning Rally Time
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
Well have Soto, and then Geo up....
MinnesotaFan - August 1, 2008
Right.
Wait, what?
Blue W - August 1, 2008
Geo, the
LBR
mondello58 - August 1, 2008
Aren't they won and the same?
sue369 - August 1, 2008
Marmolade is back
John Q Freejazz - August 1, 2008
lets get the win..
how sweet would the rally be in the bottom of the 9th
bleed that blue - August 1, 2008
Nice to see Marmol kick some ass at least.
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
First time getting on here today...
almost done with work so i thought i could kill a few mins but i have had the game on the radio all day haha
bleed that blue - August 1, 2008
Let's get Mamol a W
LAcarl519 - August 1, 2008
Not a good AB by Soto.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
1 Out - Shitake
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
Mushrooms!!!!!!
mondello58 - August 1, 2008
Gah.
COME ON!!
PLEASE!!!
slcathena - August 1, 2008
Three pitches...three strikes??? Bad AB.
NotSure - August 1, 2008
Four pitches...four balls!!! Good AB.
californiachicagoan - August 1, 2008
Correctamundo...take some pitches...
NotSure - August 1, 2008
Walk...here we go...
NotSure - August 1, 2008
WALK!
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
Nice sub here...
...leaves DWard to hit for the pitcher
Chadnudj - August 1, 2008
Or Blanco
Chadnudj - August 1, 2008
This is the pitcher's spot.
californiachicagoan - August 1, 2008
Good AB by DeRo. Way to work the walk!
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
Did DeRo just walk?
DWChaney - August 1, 2008
I think he did!
DWChaney - August 1, 2008
On 4 pitches, yes.
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
Wooo Derosa! C'mon Hank!
arioso - August 1, 2008
14 LOB so far
Ouch….
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
Come on Hank White!!!!
Let’s make something happen.
slcathena - August 1, 2008
That was one waste of an afternoon
ChipSet - August 1, 2008
Blanco batting - 0-2
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
Hank White
PH
mondello58 - August 1, 2008
Get 'em tomorrow.
sue369 - August 1, 2008
get the MoJo back tomorrow. AGREED!!
LAcarl519 - August 1, 2008
I'll be here
flachimesa - August 1, 2008
4 DPs...that was fast
LAcarl519 - August 1, 2008
Shoutout Lawl..
Rudey - August 1, 2008
Damn. Just like that.
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
No more DP's!!!
Oh well, lets get em tomorrow
love the ivy - August 1, 2008
IT's a funny game......
go get’em tomorrow
Gibbon Jockey - August 1, 2008
Ouch
There’s always tomorrow!
Lou In Blue - August 1, 2008
I cannot post the word that just popped into my head.
:(
Here’s to a loss by the Dirty birds and the Brew Crew
slcathena - August 1, 2008
Wha?
What time does the real game start??
Itchy - August 1, 2008
Peace out y'all
Kinky Reggae - August 1, 2008
Excellent patience...NOT!
NotSure - August 1, 2008
Wow...
...just got back from a meeting to see the game inning GIDP.
This game was a whole lotta nada.
daver - August 1, 2008
Yeah, like me
they just didn’t have it today.
sue369 - August 1, 2008
You didn't have it today either?
daver - August 1, 2008
Oh yeah
go Phils and Braves!!!!!!!!
Kinky Reggae - August 1, 2008
at least for now.
Blue W - August 1, 2008
A team that looked so good the last 4 games
looked really bad today.
Baseball is a humbling game.
DWChaney - August 1, 2008
agreed
mjk83 - August 1, 2008
Yeah, whatcha gonna do?
It’s a game of failure.
daver - August 1, 2008
I say
we beat the heck outta whoever they put on the mound tomorrow ;)
DWChaney - August 1, 2008
That gets my vote :D
sue369 - August 1, 2008
sucks to the lose to the bucs
especially at home, but hey, that’s just one.
mjk83 - August 1, 2008
What's our total record against them?? 9-4?
NotSure - August 1, 2008
yes
mjk83 - August 1, 2008
Letdown!!!!
Now let’s get after ‘em tomorrow!!!!
mondello58 - August 1, 2008
Alas. Get them tomorrow.
jbau - August 1, 2008
You know..
really not that upset about today.. Yea it sucks we lost but we were going to lose more games this season. They had our number today. Marquis really didn’t pitch that bad and the bullpen shut them down. Our offense just didn’t show up today. No worries we’ll get them tomorrow
mkcubs21 - August 1, 2008
Yep, as long as the pitching remains strong...
...all is (likely) well in the kingdom. Marquis did his job – coulda done better, coulda done worse – and Marmol was filthy.
daver - August 1, 2008
exactly..
somedays the other pitcher is just better and that was the case today. But that wasn’t a horrible pitching performance by Marquis. Usually only giving 3 runs is enough to warrent a win if not a no decision
mkcubs21 - August 1, 2008
and sometimes the other pitcher
is Jeff Karstens
bheidge - August 1, 2008
unfortunately..
yes that is the case. We did have some innings where we had runners on we just couldn’t get that hit to knock them in. We had some chances just didn’t capitalize. Such is the game.
mkcubs21 - August 1, 2008
Actually this is to be expected
Cubs were emotionally keyed up and won a big series in Milwaukee, and come home yesterday and regardless of the words were still mentally still up in Milwaukee.
Retrospect Piniella & Co should have played Ward at 1B and rested DLee…
Ivy Walls - August 1, 2008
Why do you want to keep taking Lee out? We need him at 1st for his defense.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
HE NEEDS REST
he is not a machine. His bat is slow, he is hitting pops to right field and grounders to short…..
Ivy Walls - August 1, 2008
Well, I disagree, but that's ok.
I just don’t think he’s seeing the ball well, and subsequently not swinging at good pitches, and the ones he does get wood on, he can’t square them up. I don’t think it’s a matter of rest at all- it’s a matter of continuing to get his hacks in until he can see the ball better.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
I agree, a day
off isnt going to fix his swing. but I think he is top 5 in ABS in the NL so far this year
bheidge - August 1, 2008
TOUGH LOSS.
GET ‘EM TOMORROW
cubswgnrocks - August 1, 2008
Classic trap game.
Bad team, us coming off a huge sweeping series, and a great pitching performance from our #5. Oh well. No biggie.
dtpollitt - August 1, 2008
Bye all - let's get 'em tomorrow. Have a good weekend!
malicedoom - August 1, 2008
bye
sue369 - August 1, 2008
geovany soto
i could have been imagining this, but i THOUGHT i heard a radio commercial earlier in the season that featured Soto talking about how he wanted to hit north of .400. i’d say staying above the .270 mark is a good goal.
horace tarbox - August 1, 2008
Such is life
get ‘em next time
BeerCub - August 1, 2008
Just a little bump in the road...
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
Going forward....
Tomorrow I expect Piniella to rest one of his stars and juggle his lineup real good…..get everyone’s attention, I would rest Soto again his bat is slow.
I would expect Lilly to pitch well, even though Marquis pitched fair but now is 6-7
Ivy Walls - August 1, 2008
I don't think it's that grave...
The pirates took pitches, got on base, hit singles and got a few of them to drop… We didn’t get blown out here. It’s just a market correction.
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
Wow
talk about playing down to the competition
bheidge - August 1, 2008
please
no more fukudome batting 2nd. he didnt play bad but I just get a crap feeling when he bats there
bheidge - August 1, 2008
Theriot will be back there tomorrow...
IowaCubs- - August 1, 2008
I'd imagine that he'd be back in the 5 hole tomorrow.
Not sure who is pitching for them but i wouldn’t be surprised either way if Edmonds didn’t get a day off tomorrow with RJ starting
mkcubs21 - August 1, 2008
I'm officially worried about Geovany Soto.
I really am. He has got more than enough rest lately. He really needs to start swinging the bat because he is an important part of this offense.
Unique - August 1, 2008
his bat will come around
as long as he continues to call good games and provide good defense I’m not too worried
bheidge - August 1, 2008
A fair point.
Hank batted in a whole lotta’ games with a BA under .200 because he was good at his position. Hate to see the batting talent stunted, though.
arioso - August 1, 2008
I hope so.
He doesn’t have too much of track record—so we don’t know if he can put together a consistent season in the majors. I do want the good defense, but his slump on offense has going on for a little while now.
Unique - August 1, 2008
it looked like he was picking it up
in the MIL series going 5-12. His K’s are starting to pile up though, hes approaching 100
bheidge - August 1, 2008
Yeah, somewhat.
I’m just being alittle tough on him. He is just not driving the ball with authority like he was at the beginning of the season.
Unique - August 1, 2008
Because he's tired. See below...
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
His numbers won't be as good the rest of the year as they were up until now...
Oh, he’ll come out his slump- I have no doubt. He’s a starting catcher though, and being a starting catcher is an extremely important, and extremely tiring position to play. Think of it, 3,4,5 days in a row, in the heat of the summer, all that gear. So… you gotta get your offense in the beginning of the year, when it’s cool, when it’s early on. This is why Geo is such a great player. Last year he found a way, after catching all year for AAA, and hitting the crap out of the ball I might add, to come up, take over for Kendall, and continue to hit. If Lou can find a way to get him a couple of days a week, he’ll probably come out of his slump, and start hitting again. He’s been trying to pull everything, which is a sign of a tired player. So, with all this said, I think he will provide more than adequate offense as a catcher, and maybe more- we’ll see. I’m just glad he’s so great with the pitching staff, and on defense.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
Yeah I'm happy with the defense and play calling also.
But he’s a vital part of this offense. We really need him.
Unique - August 1, 2008
He's a great bat, but he's not vital to the offense.
Anything you get from the catcher is gravy, and in Soto’s case, it’s good gravy & there is a lot of it. He did manage to catch all year for AAA last year, and still have enough of a bat to hit well for the big club when he was called up.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
I respectfully disagree.
He is a important part of this offense. The threats in this offense are Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Soto and Edmonds to lesser extent. Without his power and bat, this offense is no where as potent.
Now being a catcher as a whole? No you’re not really an important part of the offense. But Brian McCann, Russell Martin, and Geovany Soto are dual threats for their position and a vital part of their teams offense.
Unique - August 1, 2008
That's ok, what a boring world it would be if we all agreed...
I do agree that Martin, McCann & Soto are dual threats, but understand that they are not the norm.
However, Soto is not a vital part of the offense, he’s not a threat- now Fonzie, D. Lee, Rami & ED, (not to a lesser extent), are the threats in the offense. Geo has been slumping, while at the same time, the Cubs blew the Brewers out of the water four games in a row. I think this offense is potent with or without Geo in there. When Geo is hitting, it makes the offense more potent, overwhelming potent.
Like I’ve already pointed out, Soto may be the exception to the norm, and still be able to put up big numbers ending August, and rounding out the regular season. Let me reiterate, he caught all year for AAA last year, hit the crap out of the ball- then take over for Kendall and hit the rest of the way. He’s already done it. He can do it again, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him do so. He just needs a little more rest. Get Hank behind the dish two days a week, he’s great on defense, and the big threats in the offense will carry the offense. When Soto comes out his slump, it’ll be like pouring thick, chunky, tasty chicken gravy all over the offense. It’s the difference b/t a potent offense with a little o, and a potent offense with a big O.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
threats
aren’t those the same threats we had for the playoffs last year? the same ones, who in their most important games in the last few years wet their pants in a major way? if those are our only threats, i doubt we’ll win a playoff game.
horace tarbox - August 1, 2008
who were the threats last year for arizona and colorado?
team baseball will win a playoff game.
bheidge - August 1, 2008
You obviously don't understand baseball, and this Cubs team at all.
I would hardly classify what happened in the NLDS last year as wetting their pants. They were tired from the pennant chase, and faced some very good pitching. As far as ‘wetting their pants in their most important games of the last few years’, I defy you to find me credible proof of this. Second thought, don’t bother, it doesn’t exist, and you wouldn’t, and/or couldn’t find it if it did exist.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
the most important games they've played.......
the last couple of years were the three vs. the d-backs in the playoffs last year. all three of their highly paid “run producers” failed. tired? i thought fatigue shouldn’t be a factor (you reference Derek Lee’s stamina multiple times in recent posts). good pitching? livan hernandez and doug davis? interesting. excuses. bad excuses at that.
horace tarbox - August 1, 2008
Oh, now it's so important for you to be right, that you have to refute everything I say.
You need to extrapolate and put words in my mouth. There is a difference between general fatigue, and simply running out of gas. I reference Lee’s durability to play the majority of games as a starter, because it is a FACT.
If you must put words in my mouth, at least get it right. I stated that they were tired from the race for the division title, (which I incorrectly referred to as the pennant chase). I never said that fatigue, (whether it be mental or physical), shouldn’t be a factor. IN FACT, they were obviously mentally and physically fatigued from fighting for the division title. Anybody that watched the NLDS should know that, for it was obvious in their play.
The Diamondbacks had other pitchers that the Cubs faced last year besides just Hernandez & Davis. Try Webb, Valverde, and others.
Coherent debate? I can’t debate someone that refuses to yield to facts, and uses insults and sheer lack of knowledge to bludgeon me with assertions that are not germaine to the debate, and/or discussion at hand. So, continue to state that I offer excuses, when I am in actuality offering FACTS. You can’t hurt my feelings, or bully me into agreeing with your uneducated point of view. All you are doing is showing your ignorance of Major League Baseball.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
i would urge you
to re-read our various comments today directed toward one another and tell me honestly which of us has been insulting towards the other.
horace tarbox - August 1, 2008
furthermore
cubs apologists like yourself amuse me. in the back of your mind you MUST know that the chances of the Cubs winning a playoff series this year are about as good as the chances of the Cubs scoring a run off a stud like Jerry Karstens.
horace tarbox - August 1, 2008
Lastly,
I knew you would throw out the term apologist. Your statement above, that “in the back of your mind you MUST know that the chances of the Cubs winning a playoff series this year are about as good as the chances of the Cubs scoring a run off a stud like Jerry (sic) Karstens.”, is likely the silliest thing I have ever heard.
First off his name is Jeff Karstens, (not Jerry).
Finally, I am no apologist, rather I am a realist. I know that the Cubs have the best roster in the NL, and that their chances of winning a playoff series, (should they get there), are decidedly higher than the Cubs scoring a run against a pitcher that they never faced before (and had no time to prepare for in terms of reliable scouting).
Now, I leave you to spread your vitriol unopposed. I have already comprised my integrity by continuing to debate someone with no knowledge of logic, or the components thereof.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
i'm sorry you've "comprised" your integrity
your posts have great entertainment value. it’s especially amusing when you talk about logic (and the components thereof, which is a redundant and odd thing to add). i think you and your boy john karstens deserve each other.
horace tarbox - August 1, 2008
I knew you would post something after I left...
just to get the last word in. What is amusing is your stunning lack of knowledge about logic, and baseball, (evidenced by your rambling posts). It will be funny when people read our posts back & forth, and the rest of the community will laugh at your juvenile observations.
Jimmyeatworld - August 2, 2008
I didn't insult you.
Rather, you attempted to portray my assertion of fact to make it appear as though your reactionary musings about one game had any basis in reality.
I pointed out that you are obviously uneducated about the game of baseball, that you do not understand logic, and that it is more important for you to appear right, than to offer anything to the discussion that is reasonable or realistic. Calling my assertion of facts, quote, “lame excuses”, is insulting. Pointing out your lack of knowledge about MLB, is simply stating the obvious. Lack of knowledge accompanied by spouting off at the mouth is simply ignorant.
I would urge you to study the game of Major League Baseball beyond merely watching a game, and thinking that you know better than the men playing the game. This way, when you spout off, you stand a better chance at appearing at least educated about the topic at hand.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
I'm sorry,
but I just disagree. He plays catcher, but I just think he is a important part of the offense along with Sori, Ramirez, and Lee. I have high expectations of him on both defense and offense.
Unique - August 1, 2008
I have high expectations of him as well, and I think he will perform out of the norm.
He is not a vital part of the offense though. I think you can’t overlook Edmonds as a vital, major threat in the Cubs offense, as you seem to do. Just look at what he did yesterday. Hell, look at what he has done since he was picked up in an extremely shrewd move by Hendry.
Let me say again that I have the same high expectations of Soto on offense, and I think he will go against the norm and will soon start hitting, when he gets some rest. He’s obviously tired, (striking out more, trying to pull the ball too much). Let him get a little rest, and Soto will return to being an extremely potent part of an already potent offense.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
Go Braves
bheidge - August 1, 2008
Yep - go Braves, go Phils.
I’ll be following both of those games as best I can.
And, for anyone interested, Tiny Tim is starting for the Giants tonight.
daver - August 1, 2008
I am definetly not going to say
Go Phils.
Though with Hamels going tonight, they should pull out a W.
bheidge - August 1, 2008
Well, figuratively speaking, of course.
daver - August 1, 2008
Tough loss but you cant win everything
go phils/braves
lexmarklover - August 1, 2008
Would you sign livan hernandez?
idk i just noticed that he was DFA
lexmarklover - August 1, 2008
Livan, Livan loves his money, he makes a lot they say...
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
Just looked at his numbers...
Livan is a strike out pitcher, and his SO’s are down, so no- I don’t think they would sign him, not a much better option than Marquis of Marshall for that matter.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
Does that mean the Twins
Will finally do the right thing and bring up Liriano?
Brett Taylor - August 1, 2008
Already did.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
I imagine they were planning too eventually
his agent didnt have to be a jackass about it
bheidge - August 1, 2008
as soon as i saw that jeff karstens was starting
i knew we had no chance. it’s not like we were facing some below average starter who probably won’t be in the big leagues a year from now.
horace tarbox - August 1, 2008
He's pitching in the big leagues for a reason...
and he looked good. There is no way to tell if he’ll be a below average starter, or be in the minors in a year from just this start. It’s very hard to scout a guy who was just traded, and you had no idea that he would be facing the Cubs today. In actuality, Karstens pitched a pretty good game. It’s always a struggle as a batter when you have never faced a guy before. Enough said.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
well............
in 57 previous innings, he had given up 67 hits and 20 walks. i’m guessing the majority of those hitters had never seen him before.
horace tarbox - August 1, 2008
i think it was more along the lines of
our offense failed to click. If we faced him again, the results would not be the same. He got lucky, but thats a large part of this game.
bheidge - August 1, 2008
Well, it was his first start in the majors this year...
so I don’t know what you mean. He was facing AAA hitters all year, and hadn’t started in the majors for almost a year. He was facing batters that had seen him plenty of times before in AAA pitching for the Yankees AAA affiliate.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
those are his career major league stats
i was referring to his career major league stats. they’re terrible. and the hitters he faced in those 57 innings hadn’t seen him before. it’s just not a valid excuse – never seeing someone before. it’s lame.
horace tarbox - August 1, 2008
You've got a lot to learn.
He hasn’t pitched in the majors for almost a year. That means that his career ML numbers are old, being that he hasn’t pitched in the majors for almost a year. When they, (his ML #’s), are that old, they really have no bearing on today. They faced a pitcher who they had a last minute scouting report on, who no one had seen in the ML’s for a year! When you don’t have a good scouting report, (and just so you know- a last minute report is not a good scouting report); it is entirely plausible that a team would struggle against a pitcher who they had never faced before. In fact, it happens all the time. It’s realistic, and the farthest thing from either an excuse, or from being lame. Rather, it is a fact, and it is valid. Save your criticism for something that you have a little knowledge on.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
you're missing the point
those 57 innings might be over a year old, but they were, nevertheless, pitched against hitters who had, for the most part, never seen him before (those innings being the first and only innings he’s ever pitched in MLB). if what you’re saying is that jeff karstens is an above average pitcher (which neither his minor league numbers or his small amount of major league innings bear out) who has improved his stuff in the last year, those numbers might have less relevance. but what our argument seems to be about is the extent to which having never seen a pitcher before (and having a last minute scouting report on, which you were nice enough to point out, as if you have even some small measure of expertise about any of this, are inferior) effects a team’s ability to score runs off of that pitcher. and my point is, which is utterly and thoroughly NOT debatable, is that there were 57 innings worth of major league hitters who had never seen this guy before and still killed him. whether or not he’s a better pitcher now than he was a year ago is completely beside the point. there will be days (a lot of them, especially in the upcoming playoffs) when the Cubs offense doesn’t do its job, but to make excuses for it is lame and not the mark of a winning team.
horace tarbox - August 1, 2008
Even if a team has seen a pitcher once, that is sometimes enough.
How do you know that they’d never seen him before? (Meaning: batted in a game vs. him). He has 9 career starts and 6 relief apperances. It stands to reason that many of those opposing batters had seen him at least once before.
I never suggested that Karstens was an above average pitcher. I’m sure he has improved though, otherwise he would not be in the ML’s. My assertion is that it is entirely plausible that a team, (like the Cubs today), would struggle against a pitcher they had never faced before, and had a poor scouting report on. Pitchers have the advantage over hitters when they’ve never faced them before, and he is throwing well, changing speeds, and spotting his pitches, (as Karstens did today). Ask any major leaguer, call a radio show, (don’t take my word for it- as I know you don’t- b/c you are more concerned about being right).
Additionally, I wasn’t portraying that I had any expertise on what makes a scouting report good or poor. However, it is COMMON SENSE that a last minute scouting report doesn’t allow the hitters the time needed to put into practice what they’ve learned, for sheer lack of time to study the report.
Stating that your point is not debatable does not make it so. I would hardly say that his career numbers showed that major league hitters killed him. The FACT that Karstens is a better pitcher now than a year ago, is not beside the point. He wasn’t a terrible pitcher before, and he is obviously a better pitcher today. He threw a good game today, give him credit. I’m sure it was due to him putting in hard work over the past year, it allowed him to get back to the ML’s.
Lastly, how in the world do you know that there will be days when the Cubs offense struggles, (and doesn’t do its job)? (Especially, in the playoffs). Let me reiterate, lack of experience against a pitcher is not an excuse, and stating that FACT has no correlation as to whether a team is a quote ‘winning’ team.
Jimmyeatworld - August 1, 2008
I PROPOSE a NEW STAT
There should be a stat, “BAA for Never-Seen-Before-Pitcher”, or “BAANSBP”.
The Cubs, in my memory, have to be under .200
It could be a AA guy, AAA, guy switching leagues. It doesn’t seem to matter with them…
Today Marquis did a fine job and should have had more to show from it.
The E-Man - August 1, 2008
If he's BAANSBP, be sure the Cubs can't hit him!!
Itchy - August 1, 2008
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