Bleed Cubbie Blue

Maybe...

…and maybe not, but its really not someting that should inhibit them from putting together a long term winning franchise.

I wasn't able to see the play

but hearing it described, Marshall had no reason to get upset about that one. There was nothing he could do about it. His reaction should have been to say WTF and laugh it off b/c it sounds pretty funny, reading about the play.

Either way, he did pitch well and I am happy that Marshall made the playoff roster. As for Gaudin, I really hope he gets ‘it’ figured out soon because we know he is a good pitcher and a big assets to our pen.

It was just a "one of those things" play

Certainly nothing that should have made Marshall mad or made him lose focus.

SuperContext - September 24, 2008 reply

Exactly

That's exactly what Kruk's point was.

He should have laughed it off and got the next two guys and finished off the inning.

i agree with you and kruk

but my god didn’t kruk seem overly pissy about the play?!? it’s not as if losing this game is going to have a significant impact of the rest of the reason

Kruk often gets overly pissy.

Sometimes, that makes his point lost. Not last night, though.

He thinks the Astros were screwed, by the way.

I hadn't heard that...

i agree with him

oh god let’s not start this debate again!

RIDICULOUS! JUST RIDICULOUS!

DID I MENTION IT WAS RIDICULOUS? OH, BY THE WAY, IT WAS RIDICULOUS!

Ridiculous

I started to count how many times he said that but ran out of fingers

carolinacub - September 24, 2008 reply

Ridikulus

even

when you are pulling for the phillies, last night does mean something!

I disagree

I disagree as to what Marshall was conveying with his body language. I don’t believe he meant any disrespect to Cedeno at all. Rather, it seemed clear to me that he was simply throwing up his arms in disbelieft that the ball hit the broken bat after it had gone past him.

There is one major reason that I believe that was his intention….I think he recognized that he should have fielded it cleanly himself. If he fields it, it’s a DP. I don’t think he was upset with Cedeno at all but was more disturbed that he missed the ball and then it goes on to hit a broken bat. I think he was giving the “what can you do” body language more than anything and don’t believe he lost focus at all.

krummy12 - September 24, 2008 reply

Maybe so...

… still, it did seem as if he pitched differently after that play.

Goat Whisperer - September 24, 2008 reply

I agree with krummy, not kruky.

Marshall wanted to field the ball himself, but the bat came flying through. Then it struck the ball, breaking up Cedeno’s rhythm. Honestly, I don’t think Marshall was peeved at anyone, but instead filled with disbelief that something so crazy could happen.

I guess we’ll never know………..

What supports the “disbelief” stance is the way he handled Reyes. He got a fortunate strike call from the ump, but then busted Reyes up with a heater. Why he failed to do the same against Castillo is, well, yet another mystery.

tville - September 24, 2008 reply

I also agree with Krummy.

I think Marsh was just was in disbelief after the play. And Al is right, still didn’t change the fact that wheels fell off so fast but this is why he isn’t permanent in the starting rotation.

Fishbone2 - September 24, 2008 reply

+ 1,000

That is exactly what I was going to say.

It was more of a “you have got to be kidding me” type of reaction at the sheer bad luck of it all.

I saw the play...

…and this was my thought as well. I assumed Marshall was either mad at himself or perhaps even mad at the fact that yet another maple bat exploded like a rotten apple hitting a brick wall.

philadelphiacub - September 24, 2008 reply

I agree...

Marshall had just walked a batter on 4 pitches to open the inning and had a chance for a dp. The shattered bat distracted both he and Cedeno from making the play. I would probably have reacted the same. The increasing number of sharp maple projectiles that are directed toward the mound must be a concern for all pitchers. If the batter were to intentionally throw the bat or helmet or other object, then there would be an interference call. By choosing to use thinner and thinner bats made of brittle wood, the batter has effectively chosen to randomly throw his bat toward the fielders. Something needs to be done such as setting minimum handle diameters and wood quality standards.

txtom - September 24, 2008 reply

Re: Gaudin

Of more concern to me is not the fact that Gaudin may have pitched himself off the playoff roster is that in doing so, he may have pitched Bob Howry onto the playoff roster

+1 billion

Despite Gaudin’s bad night last night, Lou shouldn’t forget that batters are hitting .300 (!) against Howry this season.

Gaudin and Marhsall will get the 5-7th innings, Spellcheck (I really don’t know how to spell his name, and I’m an excellent speller) gets the 6-7th innings, Marmol for the 8th and Wood for the 9th. It’s that simple.

We cannot chance Howry pitching in the playoffs. Christ, MARQUIS would be a better option, and that’s why he’s there.

SouthsideCub - September 24, 2008 reply

Vote NO for Howry

ThisOldCub18 - September 24, 2008 reply

NO! on item number P.O.R. 68- Bob Howry on the playoff roster

philadelphiacub - September 24, 2008 reply

here's the lesson to be learned

if you are gaudin and you are in the thick of a playoff race, don’t get so drunk you fall into a dumpster and hurt yourself……he’s got little time left to prove he belongs

Best post I've read so far this morning

in a very melancholy way

yah i was sighing as i wrote it :(

i would really like to see him make the playoff roster

The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street - September 24, 2008 reply

You don't think it's going to be Marmol for the 7th & 8th

Wood for the 9th – unless Carlos worked the night before?

huh?

Marmol doesn't seem to be as effective in his second inning of work in a night

Clutch16 - September 24, 2008 reply

Amen, brother.

Did I really just type that?

I dunno.

Did you grow a bushy handlebar moustache last night?

That's not Wrong,

That’s Rollie.

davenportblue - September 24, 2008 reply

I still hate to see them lose

My head knows it doesn’t matter, but my heart still dips a little when I see that score.

Oh well, I am encouraged by the way we hit Santana in the early going, especially with the CUBS/sCrUBS combo line-up. I know anything can happen, but I do not fear this team in the post-season.

SuperContext - September 24, 2008 reply

Best case scenario

If Zambrano and Harden can win the next two games against the Mets, there’s a good chance that the Mets and Brewers will either be tied or separated by only one game going into Sunday.

That will likely force Santana to pitch on Sunday with everything on the line after a 120+ pitch outing last night. I think the Phillies will have clinched the East, so it may come down to Mets and Brewers having to win Sunday, or even better, that they’re tied after Sunday forcing a one-game playoff for the wild card. That would really scramble their rotations, tax their bullpens and make the survivor that much more vulnerable to the rested Cubs.

Whatever else happens the next few days, Lord please let the Mets and Brewers end up tied after Sunday’s games!

I'm too lazy to look this up.

Where would a Mets/Brewers tiebreaker game be held?

New York, I'm pretty sure

I don’t think the Brewers won one tiebreaker advantage

The Brewers

won the tie break with the Cubs, IIRC. We would have had to go to Miller to play a tie breaking game

Dang, what's wrong with me?

You’re right

well, gee

too bad that didn’t happen. Any opportunity to throw a no-hitter at Wrigley North.

This comment brought to you by

I was thinking the same thing

as I was typing my response above. . . Shucks, you mean we have to go play at our other home field ;).

Comfirmed.

It would be New York (link)

If the Mets finish Saturday with a 1 game lead

My guess is they don’t pitch Santana on Sunday. They hope to win without him so that he’s ready for Game 1 — or, worst case, have him ready for a tie-breaker.

OK, I looked it up.

If the Mets and Brewers tie, the tiebreaker game would be at New York.

Plus the tie breaker

needs to go about 19 innings.

MerlinDog - September 24, 2008 reply

ah the dream situation

davenportblue - September 24, 2008 reply

When I watched the replay

I noticed the “WTF” reaction, but I thought it was directed at the bad luck of the crazy bounce, not at Ronny Cedeno. Marshall was looking right at the play the whole time, and he himself couldn’t field the ball because of the bat head flying right in front of it. Still no excuse to lose focus, even if he wasn’t blaming Ronny.

JohnM - September 24, 2008 reply

Playoff at Shea

I’m pretty sure the wild card playoff would be at Shea. Of course, in my earlier post, I should have added that I’d want the exhausted Mets to win the playoff. If the Brewers were to win, we wouldn’t be playing them in the first round anyway.

And on the subject of Marshall’s reaction to the “double bounce” of the bat, it seemed he was reacting to the play, not Cedeno.

Gaudin...

… got “pounded?” Huh?

Gaudin most definitely did not give up “four hard hits.” Not even close.

He gave up a bloop double that just dropped in front of Soriano. Then he gave up an infield hit that he made the error on. Then he gave up two singles, neither of which were really hit hard.

How is that getting “pounded?”

I agree with you

Couple that with the fact that he hasn’t pitched against MLB hitters in a month, and that he just came back from back problems.

Gaudin pitched the other day in Chicago against the Cardinals (Sunday)

JohnM - September 24, 2008 reply

I need to quit posting in the mornings.

or drinking in the evenings?

or drinking before posting in the mornings.

Coincidentally enough, I lost my ID this weekend

Can’t buy beer now.

D'OH!

Looked like Soriano............

………..broke back on that hit by Delgado, and then didn’t really get going forward in full gear until it was too late to catch up to the ball.

With the catcher running, it was too bad that infield dribbler went for a hit and even worse that Gaudin chucked it past Lee at 1B. That said, Gaudin was consistently over 90 MPH with his fastball, but he left too many out over the plate.

tville - September 24, 2008 reply

Getting closer

My thoughts are already consumed by the postseason. I know in the coming weeks it is going to be difficult to concentrate at work with the Cubs in the playoffs.

I know whatever happens is going to happen, but it would be huge for the Cubs if the Mets had to throw Johan to get into the playoffs on Sunday. Otherwise he would be waiting in game 1 assuming we face them. Facing Johan doesn’t scare me, but it isn’t ideal. I realize I’m getting ahead of myself but right now I’m as interested in the Sox/Twins as the Cubs series.

Except tonight, I’m excited to see Z bounce back.

slocs55 - September 24, 2008 reply

Lets Go Mets

After hearing the Mets won’t start Santana on Short rest and that he will pitch Sunday, I am rooting for the Mets to win and have to start Santana on Sunday. Then he would, if not starting on short rest wouldn’t pitch until Saturday, although I am sure he would in the playoffs but that still makes him the Game 2 starter at best since he isn’t going on 2 days rest.

And then with Game 3 on Saturday and 4 on Sunday he wont pitch until game 4 on 3 days rest and that is all. I would love the Cubs chances against Santana twice on short rest.

Anyone know if Santana has ever pitched on Short Rest. I couldn’t find any games going through the game logs for his career

niuhuskie224 - September 24, 2008 reply

Santana on Short Rest

after becoming a starter, Johan has started 3 games on 3-days rest. He is 1-1 with a 6.14 ERA in those games, throwing 14.2 innings, allowing 15 hits, 10 runs (all earned), 5 walks, 13 strikeouts and 5 homeruns.

Here’s the direct link

things just seem to be falling into place huh?

Just need the Brewers to cooperate

and force the Mets to throw Santana on Sunday.

Wow, interesting stuff.

I guess it’s a little harder to control that change-up with a tired arm. Gotta admit – he was damn impressive last night.

Once the Mets tied it up, he was filthy.

None the less, I liked how the team played (for most of the game), and I’ll take my chances against him with the regular lineup out there.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

He's a hell of a pitcher. If I was managing against him, I would

want a lineup of 5 lefthanded hitters and 4 Reed Johnsons.

Does this include the playoffs?

I recall he started on short rest against the Yankees in the playoffs one year.

It didn't

I looked it up, and in 2004, he started on 3-days rest after dominating the Yankees in Game 1.

He went 5 innings, allowing 3 hits, 1 run (1 earned), walking 3 and striking out 7 that day.

Reyes ticked me off last night!

After his base clearing triple in the 6th, I felt his reaction was a little much. Please, your team is trying not to choke for the second year in a row, i’m sure you are excited to not be hitting .160 or whatever you hit last september, but show some class. Even my wife, who is relatively passive when watching a game, gave me a look like WTF is that about.

It feels good to be gearing up to have agnst against potential playoff matchups.

huh?

Do you also criticize Marmol and Z for their emotional celebrations?

I actually appreciated Reyes’ reaction. He got a really big hit, and he celebrated that.

Actually sometimes Big Z and Marmol do upset me with the over the top emotions

I think it sometimes stirs up the other team and can work against you. But usually I’m just biased and only notice behavior of other teams. I don’t know, I’m just trying to get myself rocked and ready for next week, and I think Reyes is more flash than substance, and he kind of gets under my skin and………….hey why am I defending myself here, I feel like this is therapy or something?

Reyes may be a lot of things

But his career numbers show he’s certainly not more flash than substance.

Even the most ardent Theriot supporters would be foolish to say that the Cubs wouldn’t be better with Reyes at short. Any NL team other than the Phillies would be better than they are with Reyes at short.

Even the Marlins?

tville - September 24, 2008 reply

Arguably

Ramirez gets the nod on offense, but I think Reyes is the superior fielder. Right now, you’re probably right, though.

I should have said "i feel" instead of " i think"

I feel he is more flash than substance, just my distorted perception and opinion. And comparing Theriot and Reyes is completely unfair, we all realize Theriot isn’t a real shortshop period. Anyway, I would argue though that when you hear about lockerroom or team chemistry issues on the Mets, Reyes is likely in the center. Just an opinion, he reminds of guys I played with in college and those type of players drive you silly.

He's got some maturing to do

But I’d take my chances on that happening. So does Zambrano — who apparently still hasn’t apologized to Piniella for his actions last week.

Media boycott by Z?

What the hell?

He's got some serious growing up to do.

After reading that, I’m thinking the Cubs could do worse than going with Dempster, Lilly, Harden, Dempster, Lilly in the NLDS.

I'm so torn on this rotation.......glad it is not my decision

I’m thinking Dempster or Harden (mostly Harden in game one) Even at his worst Harden only gives up a handful of runs. But you know if Big Z is in this state of mind, he may sulk the whole series. It is almost like he is anticipating not being the game 1 starter.

Didn't he say a few

weeks ago he wanted to pitch in game 3?

Yeah, I seem to recall him saying that, too.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

He also said he didn't care about pitching in the

opener and that Lilly could do it, but we know who ended up starting that game.

woah

deja vu

cmon...

Z has hit an emotional high point and low point in the space of two-three weeks Pitching a no-hitter, having to travel for his grandmother’s death, and then pitching very badly. Do you suggest that Fukudome should be benched because he doesn’t talk to reporters?

Where did I say he shouldn't start because he doesn't talk to reporters?

That’s your inference. I just don’t like the way he handles himself when things don’t go his way or he doesn’t get his way.

you're the one who suggested

that the rotation should be Demp, Lilly, Harden, Demp, Lilly. What inference was I supposed to make?

He’s an emotional guy. I don’t see significant negativity in that. He can beat up all the gatorade coolers or bats he wants to, so long as he doesn’t get hurt, and he keeps it off the pitcher’s mound. It’s when he gets upset on the MOUND that I worry, and only because it effects his pitching.

He’s a ballplayer, he plays ball. When he does it well, I’m happy, when he does it poorly, I’m not.

Not because of his media ban

Because he’s prone to acting like a spoiled brat — and it has a record of affecting his pitching.

well, when it effects his play

I’m upset about his play. The results are what concern me. What effects the results is up to him.

that's true

But until he proves that he can ignore outside factors, I’m not sure that I want him in Game 1.

But, that’s not my decision, and as you said, Lou has more info.

actually it's "affect," but I get what you're saying

huh.

So much for my english degree.

Z is wrong about one thing....

(as per the linked article above) Lou is NOT human..he’s SWEET!!!

cubfever7 - September 24, 2008 reply

Dome not talking to reporters and Z not talking to reporters is apples and oranges

why?

Well a variety of reasons

A) Dome has been in this country less than a year
B) Domes discpline at the plate early in he season helped the team to start getting more walks
C) Z has been a team leader for a few years, there is a responsibilty that goes with that.
I don’t like the It’s Manny being Manny, nor do I like the Z being Z. Dome being Dome… something I have heard yet.

havent heard***

fair enough.

This is surprising

Even though Big Z is an emotional roller coaster on the field, I usually find his post game interviews to be among the most balanced well thought out I’ve heard. This doesn’t smell good, he clearly is holding onto some resentment about something.

My guess:

He didn’t like finding out that Lou is the sherriff instead of Z.

And bad freaking timing as well....

And here’s how it will play out:

He pitches well tonight, boycott over
He pitches like crap, boycott continues

He'll be fine.

Let’s not worry too much about whom Zambrano is talking to. Let’s worry about how he pitches tonight. As others have said, he’s been on a roller-coaster the last few weeks, so he probably deserves some slack.

I don't care who he talks to

I don’t like the way he responds to adversity. This isn’t in reference to his family tragedy — it’s adversity in general.

He blatantly shows up his manager and still hasn’t apologized for it.

Not to fan the flame but.........

the Badger has a point about responding to adversity. I love Big Z and thinking he is one intimidating bad man with nasty stuff and love him on the Cubs, but he can respond poorly at times. He struggled for a large part of last year with the contract issue and I really do think where he starts in the playoff rotation COULD impact his attitude. That being said this is the same guy who threw a no hitter during a time of adversity, who freaking knows?

if Lou is a good manager

he’s dealt with it, and just because it hasn’t been reported doesn’t mean it’s not dealt with.

The important thing is whether or not Z pitches well tonight. Everything else is irrelevant.

True, Lou will decide what's important --

that’s why I’m blogging and not managing. Hopefully it won’t be a decision based on, “he’ll be an emotional wreck if he doesn’t start game 1.”

I've read that article 3 times now

where does it mention that he hasn’t apologized to Piniella?

I think Zambrano responds in different ways to adversity – he responded to adversity with his shoulder by some the best pitching of his life. He responded to other pitching troubles by being petulant. Sounds like a 27-year old to me.

Never mind

I found it in Sullivan’s notebook today:

Zambrano admitted it was a “stupid” mistake on his part but never apologized to Piniella afterward for his glaring show of disrespect…

link here

In any case, while I’d rather have apologizing to Lou, I don’t think it will affect his performance.

or where did we get the idea lou wants an apology?

my gut feeling is lou understands why z was pissed, he understands he made a mistake, and i’m sure he’s over it

i mean c’mon lou had to deal with arod for how many years? i’m sure this is nothing to him

Another example...

…of the media making someting out of nothing.

I know Sullivan spends a lot of time with the club, but how does he know Zambrano didn’t have a quick one on one discussion with Lou and say he made a mistake. Just because Z hasn’t said anything about that to the media, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

And on the day it happened Z said he intended to apologize

“That was stupid by me,” Zambrano said. “I have too many things in my mind, and obviously, it wasn’t a good move. I will apologize to Lou and talk to him.”

(Friday)

So this is Sullivan stirring stuff up, or else Z tried to apologize and got an earful.

JohnM - September 24, 2008 reply

Is Sullivan with them 24/7?

How does he know all of this isn’t water under the bridge.

Sounds like he’s fishing for a story.

I agree.

I could be wrong, but this really seems like a non-issue.

it's only a matter of time

before someone tries to start up the edmonds vs z feud again haha

Theriot is a real SS

Just voting my conscience here… Reyes can rake and run, but his fielding is about as good as TheRiots….

Your conscience has the baseball IQ of a houseplant.

I'll be flexing my baseball IQ at Wrigley this postseason

have fun watching in TBS with your sweaty keyboard between your legs

What makes you so sure I don't have tickets, too?

anyway you were the dude who loves ZR

I dont believe in stats but Reyes’s ZR is like last in the majors

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&season=2008&seasonType=2&split=82&sortColumn=zoneRating

source

I'll try and ignore the fact that Reyes has...

more total chances, a better range factor, more double plays, and a stronger arm. Yeah…they’re pretty much the same defensive player.

and 100 more innings

And why on earth would Reyes get to play MORE than Theriot?

becuse he smacks the hell

out of the ball

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

That's no reason to play a guy.

You pick one stat and declare victory?

its easier that way

otherwise you have to use math and stuff-
Dude-Reyes would look great in a Cubbie uniform-I’m just saying Theriot is a solid glove

Are you drunk?

No, he's just a troll...

…who gets off working people up about Ryan Theriot. I shouldn’t have even replied to his post.

Ok I think I'll walk away from this then

sheesh I forgot about that

this is the same dude from the game thread, isn’t it?

Yuppers.

Notice how I’m not replying? I think I’ve grown.

the troll stuff is old

you sent me a personal email inviting me to comment on Theriot.

I did.

And, based on your comments in that thread, you only confirmed you have no serious opinions on this topic but intend only to make lame jokes and try to piss people off. Conclusion: Troll.

I think you throw the troll

thing around alot- you are the one who goes ape-Sh*t whenever someone says something halfway nice about the Ragin Cajin

LOL, not true.

As I told you on the game thread, I’ve gone on record several times declaring my neutrality when it comes to Ryan Theriot. But if you want to find some examples of me going “ape-Sh*t”, please feel free to share.

quote unquote

Your conscience has the baseball IQ of a houseplant.

For starters, I wouldn't call typing nine words "going apeshit."

In addition, that reaction was less a dig at Ryan Theriot than a point simply emphasizing the ridiculousness of arguing that Jose Reyes is in any way inferior to Theriot in any aspect of the game.

boy

I’d hate to see you react when people get REALLY angry with you.

There was that time

you dug flies out of my hair and ate them.

A very touching moment indeed.

I see France

Dude, that was supposed to be our little secret.

So now you're ashamed.

I see how it is.

I'm just...I'm just not ready.

for second base

Look

You are entitled to your opinion. You just need to make a clear, well positioned argument if you believe you must convert others to yours. Jose Reyes is amazing. In the field and on the base paths.

I like Theriot, but don’t believe he is a top 25 shortstop. The difference between you and I is that I’m not trying to convert anyone to my thinking.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

Don't waste your time. He's just throwing shit against

teh wall hoping something will stick.

Clear. well positioned arguments

have no place on here obviously…
The BCB community believes Theriot is a ‘bad’ defender, anyone who says otherwise gets flamed.

You guys are way fixated on Theriot for some reason I don’t fully understand. I’m just saying Reyes has a draw-back and the drawback is he is not a dependable SS.

On the other hand- Theriot is dependable and he is a Cub so he has my support.

If there was a better SS in AAA or on the roster I’d say make it happen, but he is our 2008 SS. Therefore the full size bust of him along with all the other starters is going to look great in my rec room.

No, anyone who believes and states that does not get flamed.

Those who state it ad nauseum simply to get a reaction do.

Therefore the full size bust of him along with all the other starters is going to look great in my rec room.

You’re only getting creepier.

Does this mean you're leaving?

I do not recall anyone saying he was a "bad" defender.

I believe the message is that he is not a great shortstop. This argument started with the sector of the fan base wanting Ryan on the all-star team ahead of Reyes, Rollins and Ramirez.

This argument divided the site. Those using statistics cited OPS, SB%, Zone Rating (at the time), and slugging. Theriot lovers argued Fielding %, Batting Average and “intangibles.”

You’ve offered nothing new. Have solved no argument. Further, you have resorted to overall site bashing comments and personal crap.

In fact, to state the BCB communited believes anything about Theriot as an absolute is bullshit. We accept him as our SS this year and root for him to succeed. Half believe he is a decent starting SS, the other half hope for an upgrade in the offseason.

Stop painting everyone with the same brush and piss off.

That's what I was gonna say but didn't.

Gonna do my part to turn ya green.

TheRiot is not an allstar

No doubt- but I had people flaming the crap outta me for saying at least he was better than Cedeno.

“Divided the site” I can see that there is a witch-hunt for any Theriot supporters on here.

I’m not into personal attacks (daver, drewid). but I enjoy a little humor.

Sorry to ruin your happy fun time

you reap

what you sow.

Look, dude, if you're really not a troll...

…then let’s agree right now to drop the Theriot thing. It’s pretty clear to me that you’re hear to provoke people, pick fights and maybe promote your rather tepid blog.

If that’s not the case, well, you can prove me wrong by letting your weak arguments about Theriot stand on their own shaky merits and leaving the subject alone from now on..

Drop the Theriot thing

Let’s is plural -
So if and when Theriot bashing occurs I should be given some leeway in defending a player that I am thankful is starting at short.

Fine, just don't bring it up.

Um, no, I wasn't the dude who loves ZR.

I was the dude who’s not afraid to admit I don’t know enough about defensive metrics to even attempt to wield them in a debate. I suggest you follow suit because, as you ably demonstrated in the game thread the other day, you clearly are no sabremagician yourself.

where's colin when we need him?

vomiting

hee!

what the hell

does that have to do with anything? You think we should think you’re smarter because you have tickets?

Yeah, ok.

Typical troll move.

indeed.

I'd trade smarter for tickets

but i see you are all out :-)

if Chewbacca is a wookie

you must acquit.

Problem is, you’re just an a$$hole.

tsk tsk tsk

didn’t your mom teach you not to call people bad names?

she told me to call people what they are.

and not hide behind silly rules.

im crying now

my keyboard is getting rusty-
dont take it personal man- Its really not a big deal.
Cubs are going to the playoffs, have a little fun

I am.

usually, I don’t play with fools, but in your case, I’ve made an exception.

Wow. Really? Wow.

Theriot is nowhere NEAR as good a fielder as Reyes.

Can I have what you're smoking? Is it legal?

Of course not.

That’s why it’s good.

I guess we'll agree

that we already had this discussion.

He is a real SS, says so on his Topps card.

Can't agree...

…on this one.

Theriot has held it together in the field with duct tape and super glue and I am quite surprised his double clutch/mediocre arm has not been exposed more.

Lets hope it stays that way through the playoffs.

Hunter Pence got him once this year

A fast runner who runs out of the box can beat his arm to first on a routine play

a slow one can beat him too...

if they hit the ball more than 5 steps to either side of him.

Cuban will just have to sign Furcal this offseason

That will take care of this issue

Regardless...

…of how this season goes, it will be interesting to see if the Cubs do try to upgrade at SS.

I have said this before, but I really think Theriot reminds Lou of his old teamate – Bucky Dent. Dent didn’t have a great arm or exceptional range, but he was steady as a rock on the routine plays. Theriot is actually a much better hitter than Dent, but Lou saw someting in him to send Izturis on his way.

For 1,

his name was not Cesar Izturis.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

Yeah, his annoying habit of grabbing his teammates balls.

I agree with this.

Just what we need,

a shortstop coming off back surgery!

Okay, so let's take your contentions at face value.

If:

1) Jose Reyes hits better.
2) Jose Reyes runs the bases better.
3) They are equally valuable as fielders.

Then… THERIOT is the real shortstop?

Seriously?

I’m sorry, but Theriot is struggling to provide league average offense, and Jose Reyes is hitting nearly as well as Aramis Ramirez. There is not a comparison here.

it's on!

(gets popcorn)

Yeah, c'mon, Andre...

…drag out your ZR argument now.

There's a fine distinction to be made here.

This season, so far, Theriot and Reyes have provided roughly the same defensive value, at least as far as we can measure it. The difference is, we have a lot of data (past seasons ZR, scouting data, age, etc.) to suggest that Reyes has a higher true talent level than Theriot going forward.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

And deep-down we know that Reyes is a better player. We don't need

past seasons ZR, scouting data or anything else. The eyes don’t lie.

The eyes lie all the time.

Derek Jeter is just one example. Sample data lies all the time. Everything lies as often as it can get away with it. The key is to get as much information as possible, because the more info you have, the more likely you are to derive the correct answer from it.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

No they don't. Experience tells you when a

player is better. If you’ve seen enough baseball played, you know when a player is better. You can drag out all of the stats and tratings that you want, but experience will tell you who is the better player.

Well that's a tautology, isn't it?

You’ve essentially decided that you know better than the “stats” (which are really nothing more or less than a record of what occured on the field), and your evidence is that you know better than the stats. There’s really no arguement to be had here, and I’m not going to waste my time chasing my own tail.

But, is your tail scrappy?

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

My only point is that stats are not

the be-all and end-all. Some of the evaluation has to have a human element. Stats can be interpreted many ways. There are many factors that stats don’t take into consideration. Untimately the final evaluation will be made by the individual not the stat.

So how much baseball is enough?

That’s the crux of the problem with that argument. A .300 hitter can appear to be worse that a .250 hitter over the course of 20-25 games. A good defensive player can look mediocre, and a bad one can look great. Looking at a record of what the players actually did in totalitay is useful…no?

This logic you are using.

Is it contagious?

get it off me

GET IT OFF ME!!!!

Aliens?

“Game over, maaaan!”

Willie Mays- you are the man!

I agree- fielding stats are notoriously unreliable for judging a player.

Reyes can rake and he can make some awesome plays, however he also bumbles up routine plays trying to sidearm/Nomar the ball or do some twisty crap.

I like TheRiot’s D at Short- I’m not trying to say he is a better all around player than Reyes, I am just saying that Theriot is all-around more awesome because he is a Cub….
And from everything I have seen- Theriot is much better SS than Cedeno- he is not a better SS than everyone who has ever played the game but he is solid at SS.
And
I love him

"Theriot is all-around more awesome"

my 3rd grade dissertation.

sorry

my baseball IQ is = Aloe-Vera

No but seriously.

Theriot=morzz awezome. You convinced me.

I was thinking more along the lines of a fern.

Aloe Vera is a Fern

Wow, are you a botanist?

maybe you

should open your eyes. In everything that matters — range, arm strength, speed, accuracy — Cedeno has better numbers.

but yet Cedeno plays like crap

and screws ball games up- these boards are like some weird corner of the earth where people think Cedeno is a good player.

Cedeno chokes on important plays, he screws up in the basepaths, he overplays his position, throws balls in the stands, and makes throws that even DLee cant dig. Did I mention he has no plate discipline and strikes out too much?

All the stats in the world are not going to make Cedeno play well at SS.

Sorry man- Lou can see he is junk, I watch enough games to see he is junk- I honestly wish he wasn’t bad or we could trade him but nobody wants him.

the stats

are a numerical representation of what he does and what he is.

I don’t expect you to understand.

Sabermetrics

Pretty much admits that defensive stats are no good. There are lots and lots of ways to crunch defensive stats but no one has made a fool-proof way to value defensive stats.

This plus/minus thing is pretty good but it still amounts to a lot of human judgment weighed in on every single play.

I totally get the fact that you think i am an idiot and a jerk and everything else- do you want to drop at and talk civil or are you going to keep flaming?

you think I'm flaming you?

you have not yet begun to be flamed.

Really?

I know plenty of sabermetricians (like, well, myself) that believe that there are solid fielding metrics – as with anything in sabermetrics, you have to be careful of making conclusions based upon small sample size, but that’s true of offense as well.

But systems like PMR, UZR and SAFE are robust and do tell us a lot about the ability to make plays on defense. (RZR and ZR aren’t as robust, but they do track pretty well with the better measures, especially if you rework them as a plus/minus rating.)

See

That’s a productive comment!
I was able to read it without wincing, I learned about some fielding stats that I never heard of before and nobody swore!

Here is my general gripe about fielding stats:
How do they account for special situations like when guys are playing for a double-play, or when you have a real good 3B who plays off the line, or when you have to play a little one way or the other because you have a power pitcher throwing?

They really can’t take all this into account unless you subjectively evaluate each play for effectiveness. Then you are back to looking at each play and assigning some version of errors.

Over time, those things even out.

Think of batting average for a second. Some players have certain skills – like being quick, or hitting a lot of line drives – that make them able to hit for a higher batting average.

But every player hits some seeing-eye grounders and Texas Leaguer singles – and in the short run, a player can rack up a lot of “cheap” base hits and look just like the guy that gets base hits through actual talent.

(When I say the short run, incidently, I don’t just mean a week or a month. Remember when Freddy Sanchez won the batting title?)

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1025

seen this

Andre Fonseca - September 25, 2008 reply

Makes sense.

And that’s why I’ll be the first to admit that I’m still rather mystified by defensive stats. Hell, I’m still working on getting comfortable with the offensive ones.

If you hate sabermagicians...

all stats are offensive.

Do not hate me because I am beautiful.

Definitely. He's an elite shortstop who's only going to get better.

huh?

More flash than substance?

Reyes already has 71 triples in his short career – a Mets record.

He has a line of .300/.361/.483 OPS: 844, OPS+: 123, 52 SBs, 109 R, 200 H

Yea… just flash.

???

not to be defensive, but I'm not a sabormetrics (sp) kind of guy

I would be the worst GM known to man, because I would make decisions based on which players have talent AND don’t rub me the wrong way. I see a difference between emotion like Big Z and show boating ego maniacs like Reyes. But this is still just percepiton based on what I see, of course I don’t know any of these guys

I think the point b_l made in his first response

is that you’re emotions are clouded by whose on “your” team

a lot of people think

a pitcher who breaks a bat over his thigh when he’s winning is, in fact, a showboating egomaniac, for example

I suppose.

but I think those people should take a pill. :D

Sure, because he's a Cub

But you’d feel differently if he was a Cardinal

no, actually

I wouldn’t. I would think they’re both silly, but I wouldn’t take it as anything other than expressing emotion loudly. Really.

But I’m from NY, so expressing emotion loudly is something I do all the time.

Fair enough

All anyone can expect is consistency.

huh?

So Reyes pumping his fists and pointing to his teammates is bad.

Marmol and Z pumping their fists and pointing to the sky and breaking bats over their knees is okay?

Interesting…

californiachicagoan - September 24, 2008 reply

Look, we all know what "more flash than substance" means

and its nothing to do with stats

umm...

… doesn’t the stats show the substance?

The Cubs lead the league in hotdogs so it is hypocritical to poke at Reyes

I wasn’t upset by his reaction anyway.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

I wasn't upset by his reaction either, but I

think you are overstating the hotdog factor on this team. Other than Z and Soriano, your rarely see any reaction from the players on this team. In comparison to other players in the league, that seems about normal.

don't forget aramis, edmonds, and marmol

edmonds and aramis loves to pose for their homeruns and marmol’s fist pump almost always happens

I have actually been surprised

by the lack of posing by Edmonds. All i have noticed him doing after he makes contact is drop the bat, drop his head and start running the bases. To be honest, I was expecting more hot dogging out of him, so IMO I wouldn’t put him on your list.

Ramirez does pose, but I don’t think it is for an unreasonable amount of time. The ones that bug me are the ones who slowly walk up the first baseline (ala Bonds)

Marmol . . . at least he isn’t as bad as K-Rod

oh and don't get me wrong

my posting history will show i have NO problem with someone posing….i’m just pointing out z and sori aren’t the only ones

No worries

I sometimes pose after a good post.

You need to take a picture of such pose

and post it immediately following one of your good posts, or at least use it as your avatar :).

haha

like this?

Pretty darn close.

then I flip the club and stare tauntingly at my keyboard.

believe it or not, that's Lou Gherig

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

Posing after homeruns is no longer considered hotdogging. Players

have come to accept the fact that those kind of reaction are part of the game and seem to be OK with it. As long as you don’t stand there and breakdance, most players don’t seem to mind.

A good indication of reaction to homerun celebrations is how often purpose pitches come after the fact. I don’t see a lot of Cub players getting knocked down, that’s an indication that other players are not upset with the Cub celebrations.

i agree

see my above post……the posing the goes on or the pitcher celebrations don’t bother me one bit

Take a look at all...

…professional sports, each and everyone has players doing the “hot dog” stuff that was not as common 30 years ago. It is a part of sports culture now, for many to showboat when they do something good. Look at the NFL, a guy makes a tackle and he acts like he made the game saving tackle in the super bowl.

Zambrano, Marmol, Soriano, Ramirez all showboat and let emotions flash excessively...

So lets not beat up the Mets too terribly on this point. Plus, as was mentioned they are fighting for the ability to play in the postseason and are naturally pumped up.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

I think you overstate Marmol and Ramirez. Many relief pitchers react stronger than Marmol

Getting big outs late in a game is a big accomplisment and those reactions don’t seem to carry the stigma they used to.

Ramirez’ reation is pretty tame compared to what you see from some players today.

okay but you're missing the point

the point is we shouldn’t jump over reyes for being pumped up after a big hit, bc many of the guys on our team would do the EXACT same thing…..they were playing a big game and it was a big hit

I was the only one complaining about Reyes

just to be fair, and my complaining was due to the fact he rubs me the wrong way and did again last night.

right

i’m just saying put yourself in reyes place or as a met fan (shudder)….i’m sure you’d think differently

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

I didn't complain about Reyes either. I have

no problem with his reaction after he got that big hit. He was excited and he showed it. If you don’t want to see a reaction, get the guy out.

i wasn't either

every game is a must win for the mets here out, their backs are up against the wall, and a huge hit like that deserves to pump him up

My take

I don’t mind Reyes showing some emotion. I thought the most bush league display of the night belonged to Fielder after his walk-off. The silly Brewers untuck-the-jersey thing is bad enough but for him to do it after rounding first on the walk-off is a certain invitation to multiple drillings. That was complete nonsense. I did notice that some of the classier Brewers did not partake in that foolish ritual after the game, including Counsell, Kendall and Robin Yount.

krummy12 - September 24, 2008 reply

I didn't have a problem with it...

…though I think he could have reined it in a little bit in terms of duration. I know that he’s a player known for that kinda stuff, so I wasn’t surprised at all. There was a great moment last season when Kerry Wood struck him out and Reyes made some sort of demonstrative gestures and Kerry just gave him the look of the death as he walked off the field. It was awesome.

puckishcubsfan - September 24, 2008 reply

Last night

I found out last night I’ve been cursed since I was very very young. In my baby book it says “Cubstoseriesby100 loves to sit with Daddy and yell Go Cubs and Go Bears while watching the game with him” this was noted at 22 months.

OMG. That's awful. It took me until I went to 2nd grade to get cursed :-)

My parents weren’t baseball fans, that’s why.

Marshall

He was showing his emotion a few times that inning. I wasn’t sure if he was mad at Cedeno or the play itself. But there were a few plays as things falled apart where Marshall was visibly frustrated. It was something that was surprising from Marshall who seems even keel for the most part.

DmL

dmlichte - September 24, 2008 reply

We should have a stock ticker for Postseason Roster hopefuls each game this week...

Gauden: down
Guzman: even
McGehee: even
Hoff: down
Hart: down

is McGegee a penny stock?

*McGehee

I liked "McGegee" better.

IMO: he’s got as much chance of making the playoff roster as I do.

Agreed.

I could see Ron dropping in a “McGegee” on air one of these days.

you gonna play third, Al?

or are you more of a Reed Johnson, flinging yourself after fly balls type?

How about relief pitching?

We could use the help.

How's your splitter?

Could use someone with some good off-speed junk, too.

Clutch16 - September 24, 2008 reply

A knuckler

would be a pretty cool thing to have in the bullpen to really throw hitters off.

How’s your knuckleball Al?

I figured you'd want to bat more

but sure. How fast is your fastball? Can you throw an overhand curve?

He's got about the same value

as Freddie Mac these days.

Aramis = Google
Derrek = Microsoft
Fontenot = MSO

SouthsideCub - September 24, 2008 reply

Is Pie a blue chipper?

are there any blue chip stocks around right now?

because if there are, I hope my broker is digging them up.

Is Chipper a blue pie?

where is Geo in that list?

There are no stocks good

enough to describe him at this point.

That I would have to whole heartly agree with

Stock pics...LOL

Its a volatile market now, guys. I dunno about investments in the above right now.

My $.02 I agree w/Al – pitchers are like field goal kickers – the mental game is huge. Marshall, Rich Hill, Marquis on his “bad” days, Cotts…what separates consistent success, from those that do not, appears to be “confidence”. The “good” ones seem to be able to shake off mistakes and come back. To his credit, Ted Lilly has really done it this year (although he’s thrown some stinkers too – but then the legend of the 10-9 Rockies game would not have happened).

Gaudin – Sell
Hoff-Power – Sell – wait until Spring ’09
Pie – Bull market, Strong buy
Ward – Neutral
Howry – puke

The E-Man - September 24, 2008 reply

One Week From Today Baby

Hard to believe. One week from today the Cubs start their march to the World Series. As Ron Santo said: THIS IS THE YEAR!!!

I'm already planning my trip up to Chicago for it

Game 1 – bringing the wife and celebrating my birthday at Wrigley.

Hopefully seeing Dempster vs. some worn out Mets pitcher, maybe Nelson Figueroa or Oliver Perez.

Lucky Dog

Yeah, I've got it pretty good

(knocking on wood)

sniffy the bee - September 24, 2008 reply

I've got my flight booked, too...

…I fly down from the frozen tundra in time for game 1 of the NLCS.

Looking for good, weird jazz in between games. Emelie? Little help?

Try the Velvet Lounge

I havent been to their new location, but Fred Anderson always books good acts

sniffy the bee - September 24, 2008 reply

That's definitely...

…on my list.

Empty Bottle is in full-on rock mode that weekend. Which is fine by me, too.

Colin Cowherd

A few weeks back he said the Cubs wouldn’t make the playoffs (when we were having our great sept start). This morning he just said we will beat the Mets if we play them in the Division series. I don’t know if this scares me, perplexes me, or what?

Take anything he says

with a grain of salt.

i hate him so much

i usually flip over to rome…..yah it’s that bad

He enjoys the flip flop

I always make sure to avoid listening to him. Switch over to Waddle and Silvy on the internet ESPN radio feed.

Another reason I hate Cecil and the Brewers...

Untucking his bedsheet he calls a jersey as he’s rounding FIRST after his GW home run.

Hey, If there is ever a team that deserves to be over confident.........the Brewers

(where is that SARCASM sign)

Here's some help

Lou In Blue - September 24, 2008 reply

Who doesn't like a player undressing after he crosses first base after a walkoff?

Is that BREWER UNDERWEAR???

More like Brewer girdle

If Fielder really is a vegetarian than he most be circling by the Culver’s drive thru window 13 times a day for a biggie fries and a triple decker chocolate sundae.

I actually find this untucking pretty disrespectful to the game.

This untucking is trashy.

I long for the old days when Cecil’s big belly would be a target for some serious fast balls.

Prince tearing off his jersey after a walk-off home run

seems like a strange way to celebrate a win.

The fries are made with vegetable oil, I think

If you eat 10 servings/day of a vegetarian meal, does that mean you’re REALLY a vegetarian?

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

Do we really need to complain about this? How

could that team look more like horses’ asses than what they are doing? The picture speaks for itself. If I were a brewer fan, I would be ashamed to admit it.

It makes me laugh, though

Even a Brewer fan here had to laugh when I asked if Prince had Brewer jammies. His response — “and a bib”

Yup.

It’s done as a show of unity, I guess. The “disrespecting the game” angle doesn’t bother me. The “looking like jackasses” does.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

What surprised more than the untucking

was that Bill Hall was able to pick up Fielder off the ground for a good 3 seconds.

Jayo525 - September 24, 2008 reply

As he was driven into the ground up to his knees.

Did you hear Ueker's call of the home run?

It was simply priceless!

Don't be ridiculous...

…those are clearly Fantastic Four Underoos.

He's a fan of our starting rotation too?

And suddenly

Docker’s boxers just took a sales hit

TC Cubby - September 24, 2008 reply

I'd love to know...

…what he is tilting the scales at. It has to be at least 300 bills.

His shadow weighs 15lbs.

Seriously, if you are the Brewers and know that you have to rebuild anyway...

…then I think you do everything to peddle Prince Fielder to the highest bidder this winter. He’s already dropped a million hints that he wants a monstrous contract when his time comes due. With him being this fat at such a relatively young age he is going to have hard time sustaining success. Reminds me of a fatter version of Mo Vaughn who the Boston Red Sox were smart enough to let go. Vaughn went to the Angels, got even fatter and was a colossal mega-expensive bust.

I can see that...

…and I would think the Brewers are going to go through a pretty significant shakeup this winter.

Agreed

I can’t imagine them keeping Fielder around much longer, its just not worth it to them if they won’t keep him later. Trade him while his stock is high.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

His old man ate his way out

of the league and he seems to be traveling down the same path.

please some of us are just finishing breakfast. shudder

This is third base -- a Brewer fan pointed that out to me

He’s right — PGH is in the background. Visitors have the 3rd base dugout in MKE

He untucked twice

Once around first, then finished the job around third.

He untucked twice

Once around first, then finished the job around third.

ah

twice as nice

not

damn double posting

I meant the double untucking, not the double posting

I had no issue with that . . . you didn’t do it on purpose.

then damn double untucking

Sweet Mother of God...that is so wrong on so many levels.

I can actually see it from his POV now, too.

I wouldn’t want to wear a Brewer jersey either.

sniffy the bee - September 24, 2008 reply

It looks like...

…he’s hoping to take flight.

There should be

a law against that type of viewing. EWWWWW!!!!

Exit Chad Gaudin, enter Bob Howry on the playoff roster

Gaudin is either still hurt or has a lot of rust to work off. Either way I would think he sealed his fate last night and will be left off the playoff roster. Which would seem to make Bob Howry a lock to secure a bullpen spot. I don’t’ agree with Howry making it, but I do believe that is what will happen.

As I’ve said before my biggest worry for the post season is our bullpen not being up to the challenge and losing ballgames. It’s tough to have much faith in Howry and Neal Cotts. Jason Marquis has never pitched out of the bullpen before so who knows how that will work. Jeff Samardizija is inexperienced. Carlos Marmol can figure on pitching a very heavy post-season workload. Lets hope he is up to the challenge.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

+1

This bullpen has been too shaky to be a lock. I tend to agree that they are the weakest link in our chain. Our starting pitching is not good enough to overcome a shaky bullpen. We are going to need the bullpen to be lights out to win this thing. There are far too many question marks in this group for me to feel confident.

There are rarely perfect teams

If our middle inning relief is our biggest question mark, I’ll take it. Starters go long, marmol and wood close it out the majority of the time, you live with what the Shark gives you, you close your eyes in fear if our mid inning guys have to pitch and hope for the best.

Carlos Marmol may find himself in every postseason game

God how I hope he is up to the task.

He has never shown he wasn't up to the task

I think Lou will be throwing him in the 7th and 8th of one run ballgames

plus, with the extended schedule, he'll have built in off days to recover

just thinking about this is getting me JACKED

Kerry Wood better have his stuff together for the ninth

Otherwise Lou will have Marmol throwing three innings a game

Wood has looked much better recently

I think/hope he’s through his early-September struggles

Let's face it..

Kerry Wood coming into a 1 run ballgame in a pressure packed playoff game is going to cause indigestion. Wood has fallen into a disturbing pattern of rapidly putting a couple men on board and then having to pitch out of significant jam. As we all remember early in the season his dilemma was hitting and walking batter’s early on.

It would be further black cloud on the sordid history of this franchise if we lost the critical game of the playoffs because Kerry Wood imploded in the 9th. But yes, this is the nightmare scenario that keeps playing in my head.

I'm not worried about Kerry

Mostly because if he does mess up, even once, Lou will prolly think about pulling the plug and going with Marmol.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

I am. He seems to be hitting a lot of bats

there days. His fastball has gotten pretty hittable. His breaking ball better be there or he gets knocked around theses days.

His last outing

Even tho it lasted three pitches, they were all called strike fastballs. I think that was a good sign. He hasn’t been as dominant as he has been this season, but he has gotten the job done for the most part.

I don’t know how many people remember the Sunday night baseball save against the Dodgers back in June or July, but he was unhittable. I hope Kerry can channel that day and do it every time he pitches in the postseason.

Its not rocket science...

…with Kerry. If he has a decent breaking ball and is throwing it for strikes, his fastball is much less hittable.

As with any pitcher, its not how hard you throw, its about what kind of doubt you put in the hitters head. Wood becomes dominant when you throws first pitch breaking balls for strikes. This slows the hitter’s bat down enouph to make his fastball difficult to catch up to.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

+1

Well put. Good obsevations.

Lou is all over this...

…because he has told the bullpen catcher to make sure Kerry throws enouph breaking balls (when warming up) to make sure he has it when he comes in the game.

Also, Kerry’s approach will be driven by the scouting reports. First pitch fastball hitters should get nothing but breaking balls early in the count, and he can rely on his heater more on guys who tend to be more patient.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

That's pretty much everybody. First pitch breaking-ball

guessers don’t make it in the bigs.

Um, any Cubs playoff game is bound to cause indigestion.

I’m not going to worry about Wood. He’s been solid for most of the year, and I think he’s worked out of his slump from earlier this month.

If we lose a playoff game, I don’t think it will be his fault.

Yes

but he’s pitched out of those jams more often than not.

plus i think a guy like kerry

has the intangibles that allows him to step up his game in the playoffs

just keeps you up at night, doesn't in, Blue Mike.

The history of the franchise has nothing to do with it. Wood’s as locked in as he’s going to be. Every closer blows saves. Kerry Wood will be fine.

what about that mid-season meltdown?

these long threads

always make a comment appear out of order. In any case, I was replying to nji’s comment re Marmol: He has never shown he wasn’t up to the task

After the Cubs changed that hit in his Giants meltdown to an error

I decided that I would also pretend like that whole meltdown never happened.

Once again...

… Gaudin gave up a bloop double, and infield hit, and two singles that were not hit that hard.

He just got unlucky.

My stab at playoff roster

1. Soto, 2. Lee, 3. DeRosa, 4. Ramirez, 5. Theriot, 6. Soriano, 7. Johnson, 8. Edmonds, 9. Fukudome,
10. Zambrano, 11. Dempster, 12. Harden, 13. Lilly,
14. Marquis, 15. Wood, 16. Samardija, 17. Cotts, 18. Marshall, 19. Wuertz, 20. Marmol
21. Ward, 22. Fontenot, 23. Pie, 24, Cedeno, 25. Blanco

Good stab....

…but I think Howry will get picked over Wuertz, much to my chagrin.

I still believe

but maybe it is irrational at this point, that Gaudin will make it, leaving Howry and Wuertz on the outside

No question...

…this is Lou’s toughest decision, as I tend to think the position player selections are pretty straight forward.

Gaudin didn't look good last night

Either the back is an issue or there is lots of rust to work off. He was grooming his pitches last night as well. Not sure what his velocity was, but I was not impressed by any stretch. For him to be in a position to help the Cubs in the NLDS is a big stretch.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

Grooming his pitches? Who the hell was pitching last night

Vidal Sassoon? Where’s SWL? We need an image here.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

Another mystery solved!

You can find out his velocity easily enough...

…by looking at Gameday. But far be it for a baseball genius like you to do any research.

FWIW, he was throwing mid 80s to low 90s. His fastest pitch was a 93 MPH fastball that Santana fouled off.

his second day back?

there’s still five games to go in the regular season. Let’s see how Gaudin does in the two games he’ll probably pitch in. Lou’s smart — he won’t make a snap decision like some people.;

Yeah, I'd say Wuertz is a long shot at best.

really?

I think wuertz has a good out pitch… but I know Lou hates when he walks people

He has a good out pitch when it's working...

…but I think Lou has zero confidence in him.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

He's a real long shot. He's pretty much used all of

his “Get out fo Jail Free” cards with Lou. I don’t think Lou trusts him to throw strikes.

So let me try to break this down

The following 19 guys are locks to make the playoff roster
Soto, Lee, DeRosa, Ramirez, Theriot, Soriano, Johnson, Edmonds, Zambrano, Dempster, Harden, Lilly, Wood, Marshall, Marmol, Fontenot, Ward, Cedeno, Blanco.

Can we agree on that?

That leaves 6 openings for guys “on the bubble”

I would say the bubble in guys are Fukudome, Marquis, Samardija, Cotts

That leaves us with 2 spots left we can debate
Pie, Howry, Guzman, Hoff, Wuertz, Gaudin, and big maybes for Wells/McGehee

Geez I feel like Joe Lunardi doing Bracketology

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

Fukudome and Marquis aren't bubble guys. Maybe in

your mind but not Lou’s.

hey i said they are bubble in guys

but i wouldn’t give them the lock status yet…..this is my bracketology and i can do what i want!

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

No you can't! I'm the boss of you.

i'm thinking about starting a fan post about this

set up like lunardi’s bracketology http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology

with last four in, last four out, next four out, and giving bumbs to players that increase their chances of getting in and demotions to players that don’t

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

Sounds like fun. Go for it.

"What's a bubble boy?"

“Well, he’s a boy who lives in a bubble.”

“Boy!”

I'm sorry, the card says "Moops."

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

It's Moors not Moops, you idiot.

nope... it says Moops

you lose bubble boy

There's the guy who killed the Bubble Boy! Get him!

There's nothing finer than being in your diner.

I'd like the picture back, please.

If you know what happened in the Mets game don't tell me, I taped it. Hello?

I agree...

…this is what I think may happen if Lou keeps the anticipated 11 pitchers.

Soto
Blanco
Lee
Ward
DeRosa
Fontenot
Theriot
Cedeno
Ramirez
Soriano
Edmunds
Johnson
Fukudome
Pie

Z
Dempster
Lilly
Harden
Marquis
Wood
Marmol
Spellcheck
Cotts
Marshall
Howry/Gaudin – leaning towards Howry right not

so you have gaudin

as the last guy out? and the last guy in is howry?

Yes...

…the last five games will determine which of these guys makes it. I would think Gaudin would have to knock Howry out of the box at this point.

just wanted to make sure

i think pie is the last position player in and hoff the last position player out

You don't need...

…both Ward and Hoffpauir, and Lou is not going to not go with Ward.

What you do need is the speed and defense Pie brings to the table, that could come in very handy in tight games.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

You serious? You think Lou is dumping Ward? I don't.

Read it again...

…I said Lou is not going to nix Ward. I worded it funny, but I have not doubt Lou will go with Ward’s track record/experience.

double negatives

so are not the right way to not do things

I can't not agree with you on this.

After long bus rides...

…and a few cold ones, english class was not a priority the next day.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

I thought so. I was just keeping you on your toes.

yah sorry but i have ward as a lock

even lou can’t get him out of the lock position right now….

my playoff roster-tology is an exact science

Howry won't need help

If it’s the Howry we all know, he’ll probably knock himself out of the running.

This makes sense to me - including the part about Howry, frighteningly enough.

so Guzman has no chance at all?

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

no

heh.

ok.

Nitpick

Al, if Johnson was 10 for 19 and goes 2 for 3, he’s 12 for 22, not 11 for 22.

CyberCyclist - September 24, 2008 reply

Those stats

didn’t sound right to me either, but I couldn’t figure out why so early in the morning.

A little OT, but

Good news for the Rays. They were able to sell out their first two playoff games.

There truly is a first time for everything.

This is a mistake........

tickmaster listed those dates as Brooks & Dunn on back to back nights. A lot of unhappy country music fans

You know I'm joking right?

Yeah, you're joking since Tampa Bay likes

Billy Currington and Taylor Swift more than Brooks & Dunn.

The bandwagon is filling up!

kanderber - September 24, 2008 reply

that's more than the dodgers can say

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

That bandwagon has "Radio Flyer" on the side, is red and about 4 feet long.

i wonder how many cubs fans will snatch up their playoff tickets

if the brewers get the wild card…..look at their website, there are so many tickets left

If it conflicts with a Packers game, the stands will be all Cubs fans.

I'll certainly give it a shot.

Jayo525 - September 24, 2008 reply

I approve!

I looooove that website someEcards

As they say, when you care enough to hit “send”

Slightly higher?

TB has 43M plus change this year, and Rodriguez’s salary is 28M this year.

Those numbers alone are ridiculous, on both sides, but the gap between TB’s salary and Rodriguez’s salary accounts for 35% of the whole TB salary.

Hardly “slightly higher” than what Rodriguez is getting.

I saw Kruk's commentary and I thought he was full of it.

Yeah Marshall got frustrated with Santana’s hit but he came back and struck out Reyes. If he lost his control that might be about his baseball maturity but I don’t think it was because he was frustrated. He got distracted, it happens to most pitchers. I thought Kruk was a bit high and mighty in harshing on Marshall. Especially after the innings he pitched.

Kinky Reggae - September 24, 2008 reply

"Getting hard to write these recaps"

Haha… just be glad you’re not in charge of the Angels version of BCB.

(With 300+ comments, I’m sure someone already made that joke… I just scrolled through the comments, without reading ’em.)

MillsChC - September 24, 2008 reply

I would hate to be doing Astro or Cardinal recaps

Or Seattle Mariners recaps.

“The Drive for 60 Wins Continues!”

or the Pirates

“Rebuilding Continues for Another Year.”

The Pirates

“Providing top notch talent to MLB for decades.”

Astros:

9.24.08
Top 100 Blamees For the 2008 Season
No. 34 – Shellfish in San Diego

I wonder what the rest of that list looks like.

Not to mention, I thought the list would be longer.

willie mays hayes' gloves - September 24, 2008 reply

Nationals

“Still trying to dispell the myth that a team can make in our nations capital”

Blue Jays

“No, Seriously, We’re a Major League Baseball Team. What’s That? No, In Canada. Canada.”

Kinda pissed that 2:20 pm was my first chance to get on BCB today...

…The nerve of people, expecting me to WORK while I am at WORK.

How is everyone?

Working

Mixing work and leisure

Not working.

At work.

Peter, I understand you've been missing work.

Well, I wouldn’t say I’ve been missing it Bob.

californiachicagoan - September 24, 2008 reply

That's a go getter with upper management potential written all over him

I'm a people person

I deal with the customers so the engineers don’t have to. Don’t you get that? What the hell is wrong with you people!

What he said.

I thought Marshall was more upset at the circumstances

rather than with Ronny. But he did go down hill after that. So what ever the reason, he needs to maintain his edge when he gets a bad break.

100yearitch - September 24, 2008 reply

OT

The reuters headline states, and I quote: “FBI said to probe Fannie, Freddie, Lehman, AIG.”

Anyone else see something odd about this phrasing?

John Q Freejazz - September 24, 2008 reply

Ha!

That’s a good one.

Reminds me of one from last year:

“Royals to get a taste of Angel’s Colon”

that one

had to be on purpose.

The last few days

I feel like I’m going through the motions. Anyone else feel that way too? I hope the game tonight is excitng so I can feel some emotion.

definitely going through the motions.

Though I think Zambrano’s start tonight will pique my interest.

Still, even though the Cubs have wrapped everything up, it still wasn’t fun to watch them lose last night.

Zambrano should take it easy tonight....

This game is meaningless unless by some chance Carlos Zambrano is closet Milwaukee Brewer fan. I could care less if the Cubs lose by two touchdowns. Just get Zambrano, Harden and Dempster best ready for the NLDS. Lilly, Marmol and Wood too.

Well if the Cubs lose by 2 touchdowns tonight

chances are Zambrano won’t have pitched well, which I would like to see him to do tonight, given that it’s his last start before the playoffs.

Plus, I’d like to see the Cubs force the Mets to pitch Santana on Sunday by playing well these next two games, thereby giving us an advantage should they face the Mets in the NLDS.

Lou actually thinks quite the contrary...

Quote in the Trib:

“He needs a good workday,” Piniella said. “So we’re going to let him go.”

linky

Zambrano won't pitch past the 5th

if you were ever in a winning game thread

we might be able to tell you you’re wrong when it happens.

Like we did when Pie got called up. Remember that? Good times…

Weren't you listening to Sweet Lou?

The above quote implies differently…Since this is his lat work until next week…

last night minus Geo maybe that was part of the problem for you

You mean Hank White doesn't get the ladies excited like Geo?

No…

I cant speak for all of them....

but Blanco fan club I wont join

so you say...

Business in the front...fiesta in the back...

Win.

On a side note, I think he was the single happiest player on the field when they clinched.

indeed.

the look on his face was amazingly cool.

I loved him highfiving an unsuspecting Aramis.

I think he fully understands his playing time is limited and is enjoying the ride. But he did have that killer walkoff against St Louis.

I think it’s safe to say BCB loves us some Hank White.

Hank White is my kinda dude. If I were walking in an alley

on the South Side in the middle of the night, he seems like he’d be a good fight partner!

Hank White is one heckuva ugly dude

He’s got tattoos all over his body too. I was at a game in June where Blanco was working out pre-game in a tank top. His arms are covered in garish gargoyles or some similar type crap.

nice judgemental attitude.

hey! let’s take a respected ball player and make fun of him because he looks different and has tattoos!

hahahahahahaha

“Garish gargoyles or some similar type crap.”

Wow.

anyone else think this thread is getting a little weird?

we need a pregame thread soon!

Not just this thread.

true but when blue mike is commenting on how blanco looks.....

is what put this thread I think totally over the edge LOL

Happy that the pregame one is finally up

Is it?

Happy day.

So are LeBron's....

OK, so to recap:

Sabremetrics: False

Sports Illustrated curse: True

Tattoos: Bad

+1,583

sand

pounded.

Pitching

King

CyberCyclist - September 24, 2008 reply

Lay down.

Garish Gargoyles? As you please, my leige...

Could be but

I was late getting to the game threads so I just didn’t feel the game as much.