A week from tomorrow, Monday, January 12, the Hall of Fame will announce the results of this year's BBWAA balloting. There are 23 names on this year's ballot; Rickey Henderson is the only first-time name who seems assured of induction.
There are several other potential inductees this year, including Jim Rice, Bert Blyleven and Andre Dawson, who is a favorite of many here.
I've attached a poll for us to make our Hall choices. Unfortunately, the polling structure here doesn't allow you to make multiple choices (on the writers' ballot, you can vote for up to 10). You can vote for only ONE player on the poll. So, I'm posting it with the assumption that you would all vote for Henderson -- I left him off the poll. Vote for the ONE player OTHER than Henderson that you would most like to see enshrined. Then, in the comments, you can post your entire ballot, including Henderson.
My ballot: Henderson, Andre Dawson, Bert Blyleven, Tommy John, Lee Smith.
Make sense? Have at it.
image via weblogs.newsday.com
0 recs | 69 comments
ron santo.
nathew - January 4, 2009
Yeah, we know.
This is for the writers ballot. Santo isn’t on it.
Al Yellon - January 4, 2009
still,
the one player i’d like to have seen inducted into the hall of fame in ’09 is ron santo ;)
seems like everyone always just assumes i’m an idiot when i’m making a joke like that. heh.
nathew - January 4, 2009
No, I'm not assuming that.
But I did ask for people to post their choices from the list of eligible players I posted.
Al Yellon - January 4, 2009
Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson, Tommy John, Rickey Henderson
carmen_fanzone - January 4, 2009
Blyleven not being in..
… is as big a joke as Santo not being in.
He’s fifth all-time in strikeouts and threw SIXTY shutouts in his career. If he’d have stuck around to get his 300th win he’d be in already.
Al Yellon - January 4, 2009
10 seasons of 15 or more wins....clutch in his playoff experiences...
…I think what hurts him is how close he was to a .500 W-L record. More a result of run support than his ERA, which was very good during his prime.
carmen_fanzone - January 4, 2009
I'm impressed with his 60 shutouts
I say this every year.
There are eight pitchers ahead of him in career shutouts, all of them are in the HOF. The top 20 pitchers in career shutouts (50+) are in the Hall with the lone exception of Bert Blyleven.
His strikeout numbers are awesome, too.
As I recall, Blyleven’s curveball was one of the best.
Don Drysdale, Don Sutton, and Jim Bunning are in. Why not Blyleven?
Sutton had one 20+ win season in his 23-year career.
Bunning had one 20+ win season in his 17-year career and won “only” 224 games overall. Why is he in and Blyleven’s not? I think another Twins pitcher, Jim Kaat, deserves to be in the HOF ahead of Bunning.
Blyleven didn’t get much love for All-Star selections, either. He was selected only twice in his 22-year career.
flachimesa - January 4, 2009
Silly, but true.
The 300 win milestone, while very impressive, isn’t the best measurement of ability. It plays way too much in the voter’s decision making. Blyleven didn’t always play on the best teams- had he been a Yankee, he’d probably have 340-350 wins.
The Lip - January 4, 2009
And, he would have gotten more notoriety, playing in NY...
… rather than the small markets he did play in.
Al Yellon - January 4, 2009
Andre Dawson totally deserves it
so does Santo
Mr.Cub - January 4, 2009
Someone voted for Plesac?
Seriously?
Al Yellon - January 4, 2009
Would the Hall have his plaque with a train conductor's hat?
carmen_fanzone - January 4, 2009
Perhaps they were confusing the ballot with the one for Broadcasters?
n/t
DudeVf11 - January 4, 2009
Wow ...
a lot of impressive players on this list …. I liked several of these guys, but Dawson got my vote …
Hey Al, where do you vote for Grace in this group ??
ClarkFan44 - January 4, 2009
Grace is on the list.
Check again.
Al Yellon - January 4, 2009
Sorry, maybe my question was not clear ...
I asked because he was on the list … so what i meant was, if you were voting where would he be on your ballot ?? See he has racked up nearly 100 votes … where does he rank for you after your top 5 ??
ClarkFan44 - January 5, 2009
I wouldn't vote for Grace.
I don’t think he’s a Hall of Famer, period.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2009
Kind of surprised
Lee Smith isn’t doing better in the poll. He was a dominating closer in his day.
ChipSet - January 4, 2009
+1 AMEN!
It is Sunday morning
CubFreak - January 4, 2009
Got to Be Awesomely Dominating Great
as a closer to be in the Hall apparently. I think Lee Arthur should be in the Hall. He was Fireman of the Year three times (none with the Cubs). He led his league in saves four times (once in 1983 with the Cubs). He had 478 saves, which was the most of his era. I think that image of that home run hit in the playoffs by that hated Padre hurts his vote total. Smith had his best years away from Chicago.
I can’t believe how long it took Sutter and Gossage to get into the Hall. Sutter was a Cubs closer, who went on to glory in St. Louis. That reminds me of Lee Smith. I am glad Al had Lee Smith on his ballot. I hate that Lee Smith got booed his last year with the Cubs. I feel even worse that the Cubs didn’t get more for him than Calvin Schiraldi and Al Nipper.
memphiscub - January 5, 2009
I voted for bert
it is baffling that someone with 3701 strikeouts isn’t guess a lot of those writers want that 300 win mark so much
truthaddict11 - January 4, 2009
There are more HOF pitchers with less than 300 wins than with 300 wins
Granted, some of them are relievers and Babe Ruth, but there are 46 pitchers with less than 300 career wins. There are 20 with 300+.
Dizzy Dean had only 150 career wins.
Sandy Koufax 165 (he stunk his first six years then dominated the last years of his career until arthritis in the elbow forced him to retire at 30 years of age).
There are several others under 200 victories.
Other notable (but not complete list) HOF pitchers with less than 300 career wins:
Bob Lemon (207)
Don Drysdale (209)
Jim Catfish Hunter (224 but, wow, was he good for a 5-year stretch!)
Jim Bunning (224-still baffled by this choice)
Whitey Ford (236, doesn’t hurt to pitch for the Yankees)
Juan Marichal (243, one of my favorites as a kid, loved the high leg kick)
Bob Gibson (251, still love seeing him at Roger Dean Stadium, Jupiter, and telling my daughter how awesome he was in his day)
Bob Feller (266)
Jim Palmer (268)
Fergie Jenkins (284)
Robin Roberts (288)
flachimesa - January 4, 2009
Blyleven's 287 Victory Total Is More
than everyone on that list other than Robin Roberts. Also, there was a lot of overlap in Blyleven’s career with those of Jenkins, Palmer, and Hunter. Blyleven won more games than all three of them.
memphiscub - January 5, 2009
My ballot
Henderson
Blyleven
Dawson
Raines
Smith
gjdow - January 4, 2009
My Votes
Blyleven, Henderson, Dawson, Raines, Smith, and Rice. Murphy and Morris are real close for me, but I’m not sold yet.
HectorVillanueva - January 4, 2009
Yeah ...
I always liked Rock Raines and Dale Murphy …
And that is the best user name ever … when i was a kid i saw him play for Iowa one year and got his autograph on my glove and then just a couple weeks later he was called up !!
ClarkFan44 - January 5, 2009
Along with Rickey,
No surprise Andre would get plenty of votes. I would vote for him as well.
But with just one vote, I’d vote for Lee Smith
If Dennis Eckersly, Bruce Sutter, & Goose Gossage are in the HOF
then Lee Smith should not be left out of the picture. Lee was dominate.
I can recall Smith pitching in the 7th & 8th innings, not just in the 9th.
Interesting all these names mentioned all pitched for the Cubbies at one point in their careers.
Like I said he should not be left out of the team picture.
Lee numbers are solid and will be eventually inducted in the HOF.
Maybe not this year but that’s his destination.
CubFreak - January 4, 2009
I voted for the guy that I'd like to see get elected but that I don't expect will get elected...
…personal preference narrowed it down to Bly & Grace, but I can see Bly getting in via Veterans, so i voted for Grace.
DudeVf11 - January 4, 2009
Lee Smith soooooooo underrated
My first choice to bulid a team would be Raines… # 2 Lee Smth #3 Blyleven #4 Jack Morris. #5 Dawson…
In my mind Raines is the 2nd leadoff man in my life time: Ricky #1 hands down
and Lee Smith #‘s were so much better than Sutter’s, who is in the hall
LouPrules - January 4, 2009
The only two I'd for sure vote for
are Henderson and Blyleven. I’m probably the only person on here who legitimately thinks Andre Dawson shouldn’t be in the HOF.
rea5661 - January 4, 2009
Not everyones perfect
TheHawkRules - January 4, 2009
I don't think Dawson should be in the HOF either,
but since you are the only person here who “legitimately” thinks it, I will keep by bizarre rationale for thinking so to myself. Henderson is one of if not the best lead-off man in baseball history. Anyone that doesn’t think he should be in the HOF should read up on the sport of baseball. Raines is one of the most underrated players in the post war era. He too should be in.
the nth - January 4, 2009
Sorry
I wasn’t trying to be condescending or anything, I just assumed from the tone I’ve seen in the past whenever his name comes up that pretty much everyone on BCB wants him in. The rationale isn’t that bizarre, he simply doesn’t have the production to merit a vote.
rea5661 - January 4, 2009
I disagree.
Between his power and speed, he absolutely has the production.
Al Yellon - January 4, 2009
If Andre Dawson isn't worthy
Then they should burn the damn building down because no one is worthy.
But I’m glad you LEGITIMATELY feel that he doesn’t belong in. That makes it all better!
Worf - January 4, 2009
Haha! Amen!
TheHawkRules - January 4, 2009
Andre Dawson SHOULD be in
And for the rest of my picks….
Bert Blyleven, Tommy John, Lee Smith, Tim Raines
TheHawkRules - January 4, 2009
My Ballot
Henderson, Raines, Blyleven and Trammell. Dawson is a tough call, but I don’t think you can vote for Andre and not vote for Rice, and I don’t think Rice should go so I’m going to stay consistent for now and take the heat.
Alan Trammell is a hard call too, but I always give players who play a key defensive position the benefit of the doubt. But I could live with a ballot that just said Henderson, Raines and Blyleven and I could live with one that had Trammell, Dawson and Rice, I guess.
Josh Timmers - January 4, 2009
Trammell
I was wondering if Trammell might not be the 3rd most qualified after Rickey and Blyleven. I think I’d vote him over Raines, Dawson and Rice.
rlpete - January 4, 2009
Why?
Al Yellon - January 4, 2009
Position mainly
.285/ .352/ .415 lifetime numbers. Over 2000 games at SS.
Other than Ripken, was there a better overall SS during his career than Trammell? Tony Fernandez was around but Trammell overall was better. Early in Trammell’s career there was also Robin Yount but he moved to the outfield.
Trammell has been a tough one for me since he came on the ballot. One of my top criteria for induction is whether the player was one of the best for an extended time at his position during his career. That’s why Santo is a no-brainer to me. Not comparing Santo and Trammell but Trammell was one of the best SS for quite awhile during his career. I think he is close to Dawson, Rice and Raines in terms of qualifications.
Next year, Barry Larkin comes up. To me, he is a no-brainer. 8 Silver Sluggers and an MVP as a Shortstop. A career line of .295/ .371/ .444. Larkin is definitely more deserving than Trammell, Dawson, Rice and Raines.
rlpete - January 5, 2009
I completely agree Trammell is deserving and have had
the same argument many times. I will disagree that Trammell is more deserving than Dawson, agree on Rice and Raines. Rice was a great hitter, but there are many better hitting LFers who were also great fielders.
As for Larkin, I don’t see that he is definitely more deserving than Trammell. They appear to be almost identical players in different decades. Great Hitting, Great Fielding SS. Both played almost every game at SS. Trammell was a WS MVP and should have been the AL MVP in 1987. Larkin was NL MVP in 95. As for the differential in ASG and silver sluggers, Trammell was eclipsed by Ripken, which shouldn’t take away from Trammell.
The additional argument for Trammell was that he put up his numbers in years that included some terrible Tiger teams. IMO, Trammell and Larkin both should be in.
N Oakley - January 5, 2009
I think I would rate them...
Henderson
Blyleven
Trammell
Dawson
Raines (maybe flipped with Dawson)
Smith
John
Rice
I struggle with where to draw the voting line though. I might cut it off at Trammell.
rlpete - January 5, 2009
I'd flip it with Dawson over Trammell, but would then cut it at Trammell.
N Oakley - January 5, 2009
I meant to add
that I’m frustrated with the way voters evaluate players. For some, it’s all about how they compare with their peers, for others it’s comparing with others in the hall and for many it seems as thought the litmus test changes moment by moment.
I’m weary of many players finishing their playing days considered “future hall of famers” to have them come up for consideration and be snubbed. The hall shouldn’t be for the pretty good, but too many great players are being excluded.
N Oakley - January 5, 2009
My ballot
Henderson
Dawson
McGwire — end the damn hypocrisy once and for all
Blyleven
Worf - January 4, 2009
My ballot, in order of projected finish
Rickey Henderson
Jim Rice
Andre Dawson
Bert Blyleven
This is Rice and Tommy John’s 15th time on the ballot, the limit a player may remain in consideration provided he is named on at least 5% of the ballots cast annually by 10-year members of the BBWAA.
My opinion: Rice gets in, John does not.
Tim Raines was the only first-time player on the 2008 ballot who received the sufficient support of 5% to stay on the ballot for 2009. He received 24.3%.
My opinion: Raines has some HOF-worthy numbers but will have to wait a few years for voters to write his name on the ballot. There are a few voters who will hold it against him about his admitted drug problems, unlike the voters who voted Paul Molitor into the Hall on his first ballot in 2004. Molitor had a cocaine and marijuana problem early in his career.
For the record, Raines testified (during the Pittsburgh Drug Trials in ’85) that he kept a gram of coke in his uniform pocket, snorted during games, and made a point of sliding head-first so as not to break the vial.
Raines’ numbers are deserving, but last year’s 24.3% doesn’t look like the voters are supporting him.
So are Mark McGwire’s numbers, but that’s another story.
flachimesa - January 4, 2009
Bert Blyleven
It’s ridiculous that Bert Blyleven isn’t in the Hall of Fame. I watched Blyleven pitch for years and there was nobody in the game and hasn’t been anybody in the game with a curveball like his. 284 wins, 3,700 plus strikeouts and 60 SHUTOUTS. Yes, 60 shutouts. To go along with 2 World Series rings where he was a big reason for his team winning the trophy.
BLou - January 4, 2009
My Hall of Fame ballot
Rickey Henderson
Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
BLou - January 4, 2009
+1
Bud Man Cub Fan - January 4, 2009
Dawson simply didn't get on base enough
to merit selection. His lifetime OBP is dismal. Definitely not HOF worthy. When he hit the ball he was wonderful. When he didn’t, he didn’t help the offense.
the nth - January 4, 2009
OBP is now the criterion for HoF induction?
Ridiculous.
Al Yellon - January 4, 2009
Excellent well thought out rebuttal, Al.
That’s obviously what I meant. OBP is the sole criterion for the Hall of Fame. I have rethought it and your well reasoned argument has convinced me. A guy who got on base 32% of the time in his career is one of the greatest players ever.
the nth - January 4, 2009
Well, that's the only criterion you mentioned.
You ignored his power, speed and defensive value. And obviously, only players with certain statistical levels deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, because it’s recently been renamed “the Hall of Statistics”.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2009
That's the only thing you're bringing up
So don’t get all pissy.
Even with a low OBP, his slugging percentage was enough to put him in the top 10 in OPS six times in his career.
I’m also getting a little tired of retroactively applying Moneyball stats to previous eras. Players were coached differently in the 80s.
Worf - January 5, 2009
679 votes? jeez
didn’t realize that many people read this site..
Chanman25 - January 4, 2009
I voted 670 times.
willie mays hayes' gloves - January 4, 2009
Really?
Stats
Basketball John - January 5, 2009
well, speaking from personal experience...
i.e. a ballhawk’s perspective, I’d vote for Rickey, McGwire, Williams, Dawson, Gant, GVaughn, Grace and Bell.
But as a baseball fan, my ballot would be
Rickey,
Dawson,
Blyleven,
Rice,
John,
Smith,
McGwire,
Raines.
Seems like a lot, but IMHO, Dawson, Blyleven, John, Rice are long overdue, with Smith not that far behind. So in a more rational world, my ballot would only be Rickey, McGwire and Raines.
ballhawk - January 4, 2009
Lee Smith has no business being in the Hall of Fame...and won't be
Lee Smith couldn’t carry the jock strap of Rollie Fingers, Dennis Eckersley, Goose Gossage and Bruce Sutter in their prime.
Three names deserve to be in the Hall….Rickey, Blyleven and Dawson. I will admit that Dawson is a borderline case. But I think he deserves to be in.
All this said there will only be one name elected this year, and that will be Rickey.
BLou - January 5, 2009
I'll make a gentleman's bet that Rice gets in, too
flachimesa - January 5, 2009
You're probably right
I don’t think Jim Rice belongs in the Hall. But it seems that Peter Gammons and the rest of the Boston loving media has put together a stealth campaign to make sure Rice gets elected.
Revised prediction….Rickey and Rice make the Hall
My vote…Rickey, Blyleven, Dawson
BLou - January 5, 2009
One man's ballot
Dawson, Blyleven, Morris, Henderson
Bill Potter - January 5, 2009
Jack Morris was an awesome pitcher
If I had a vote and listed 10 players, Morris would be on my ballot behind Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, and Bert Blyleven (my choices to get in).
However, he will not get enough HOF love from the 10-year members of the BBWAA who cast their ballots.
They can’t vote in every good player. Some of my favorite players as a kid were awesome in my eyes but not in the voters’ eyes. Boog Powell and Ron Santo were two of my favorites, as was Willie Mays.
We all know the Santo saga.
Powell only received 5 votes (1.3 pct) on his first ballot, not enough to get a second chance (5% required).
But Powell was my role model as a first baseman. I played like him. I am now built like him (I thought he was much bigger until I met him in person). He is not HOF material, but he is still one of my favorite “old timers.”
flachimesa - January 5, 2009
I doubt Morris gets in
his ERA will probably keep him out. I’m not a pure numbers guy when it comes to the Hall – I look at it more as, ‘was he a dominant pitcher of his era?’ And I think Morris was. If you had to choose one pitcher in the late 80’s/early 90’s for a must-win game, Morris was near or at the top of the list.
Bill Potter - January 5, 2009
Morris was awesome and the very best big game pitcher
for an extended period of time. He’s hurt by his win totals and ERA. He played for some putrid teams which hindered his win total and his last two years hurt his ERA.
N Oakley - January 5, 2009
I say this every year...
Jack Morris won more games in the 1980’s than any other pitcher. Period. For that decade he was the best pitcher in the game. So for about 9% of the history of modern baseball Morris would have been the ace of any staff.
He played on a lot of very mediocre Tiger teams during that time. The 1984 championship team was very similar to the Tiger team that made the World Series a few years ago. They came out of nowhere and disappeared just as quickly.
Further, he played in two more World Series late in his career with the Twins and Blue Jays, won 3 championships…In the 1991 World Series he started 3 games, won 2 of them, gave up 3 runs in 23 innings! While he did get knocked around in the ‘92 playoffs and WS, the Jays probably don’t even make the playoffs without his 21-6 record during the regular season.
So while I agree with everyone that Blyleven should be in, so should Jack Morris.
My ballot: Henderson, Blyleven, Morris
SiValleyCubFan - January 5, 2009
Dang
I’ve always petitioned for Dawson to be in the hall, but Gracey is one of my favorite players.
Cub Style - January 5, 2009
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