The lineup for game one yesterday read like the list of players the Cubs send to Tucson every spring to play the Rockies. You know, because the regulars don't want to ride the bus for two hours.
They played like they had ridden that bus, too, getting shut out 4-0 by the Pirates and Charlie Morton, a guy they had scored ten runs off of on August 14 before he could even register more than three outs. On a sunny but chilly afternoon when the announced attendance was 34,362, no more than about 13,000 entered Wrigley Field. For the first time that any of us could remember, the Cubs actually closed off the center-field bleachers with yellow caution tape, reminiscent of the days in the 1960's and 1970's when the Cubs wouldn't open the upper deck on weekdays when they expected small crowds. This practice ended after 1981 when the Cubs stopped selling general admission tickets in the main part of the ballpark. (See below the fold for a photo.) The announced attendance, based on the number of tickets sold, put Cubs attendance past 3 million (3,056,781 with four dates remaining) for the sixth straight year. The Cubs will need to put together a good offseason to do that again in 2010.
Ted Lilly didn't throw badly in the first game -- that is, after the first inning, when all four Pirates runs crossed the plate. Some questionable defense didn't help -- Bobby Scales, who again I remind Lou is not an outfielder, pulled up short on Lastings Milledge's looping line drive, allowing it to bounce in front of him. Then he nearly got Garrett Jones having taken too long a turn past second base; if this play had worked, Steve Pearce's ground ball on the next at-bat would have ended the inning with only one run scoring. Instead, Jason Jaramillo followed with a double to the LF corner, on which Jake Fox made a Jacque Jones-like throw to the infield, allowing Jaramillo to take third. Didn't really matter, as .225-hitting Brian Bixler drove him in.
And that was it -- the Triple-A lineup the Cubs sent up in game one managed only four singles, three walks and a hit batsman off Morton and got only three runners past first base; the last of those, Scales, took second on defensive indifference with two out in the ninth.
The weather for the night game (announced attendance 33,299; actual count in the park about 17,000) was colder than Tuesday night's and so were the Cubs' bats. The presence of Derrek Lee, who had two hits and a walk, made it a little less split-squaddy, but D-Lee appeared to still be bothered by his left foot, the one he fouled a ball off of on Tuesday night. It appeared that Lee's first-inning single might have gone far enough for him to reach second base, but he pulled up fairly slowly going into first, not wanting to risk any further injury on a chilly evening. We are told that Aramis Ramirez is going to play "sparingly" the rest of the year, which I'd read as "he won't play at all unless the weather warms up", which it probably won't. A-Ram gutted out half a season -- 80 games -- worth of very good performance considering the serious injury he suffered, and now he needs to rest up and be 100% for 2010. It appears he won't need surgery, which is good news.
Carlos Zambrano made it through six innings in his final 2009 start and didn't pitch too badly, but didn't have his best command. He walked four and two of them scored in a third inning where he couldn't manage to get that third out. One run had already scored when Z struck out Milledge, but Brandon Moss followed with a two-run single, and that, as the saying goes, was that. The Cubs managed their second and final run of the night in the bottom of that inning when Z smacked a double to deep center field, advanced on a groundout by Sam Fuld and scored on a nicely executed sacrifice by Ryan Theriot, perhaps the best thing the Cubs did all day. Z also hit another deep fly ball to CF in the fourth that was caught by Andrew McCutchen. No other Cub hit anything as well as Z did in his two at-bats.
Last night I met BCB reader katie casey and her husband and son -- nice to meet you; wish you (and the rest of us) had been able to see even one win yesterday. The Cubs now need to win all four remaining games on this final 2009 homestand to have a winning decade (this particular decade defined as "the ten years comprising 2000-2009"). That's a worthy goal, and also an 86-76 record would be one game better than Lou's first season as manager in 2007.
Weather permitting -- and this forecast doesn't look too encouraging -- the Cubs and Pirates will finish off their season series tonight. The Cubs clinched second place in the NL Central last night when the Brewers lost to the Rockies; that's nice, but not the goal we were all seeking this season.
0 recs | 248 comments
I disagree Al......
The Cubs will draw the same amount next year even with a so-so year.
The Cubs attendance is base on more than baseball. It is the whole Wrigley experience. Plus, after a long, cold winter people are naturally excited about the prospects of baseball.
timeforachange2009 - October 1, 2009
The park wasn't filled for Kerry Wood's 20 K game
Ace Venom - October 1, 2009
that was also
crappy weather for that game
CyberCyclist - October 1, 2009
That was before the 2003 division title.
It all changed after 2003. Expectations got much higher and so did season ticket sales.
But unless the Cubs are seen as a contender in 2010, and unless ticket prices are frozen at this year’s level, I can see single-game ticket sales dropping next year. They won’t be back to 1998 levels, but they won’t reach the levels of 2007 and 2008, either.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Similar thing happened in late 2006
Quite a few empty seats in September. But all the big signings in the offseason helped renew interest for 2007.
I would guess that the lack of interest in 2006 was greater than now, though.
elgato - October 1, 2009
The "lack of interest" was probably greater.
But the number of people who showed up at the games was about the same as this week.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
wow, really?
Not questioning you, Al — that just really surprises me.
Chalk it up to the economy, I guess?
elgato - October 1, 2009
Maybe so.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
I don't think so
Bargain tickets this week, right? The economy has stayed bad this year, but those remote playoff hopes vanished more recently. Great tickets started to sell for a lot less in SF all of the sudden, too, in a similar situation.
vonde6 - October 1, 2009
well, of course wins are a team stat
But certain pitchers seem to get a lot of wins with decent stuff — Jason Marquis comes to mind — while guys with amazing stuff don’t. And I’m not criticizing Lilly at all.
elgato - October 1, 2009
this comment ended up in the wrong place -- disregard
elgato - October 1, 2009
Honestly, I think that has more to do with luck than anything else.
Jason Marquis’ propensity for racking up wins is truly astounding.
daver - October 1, 2009
Add Bronson Arroyo to that
He has 15 wins this year
nji232 - October 1, 2009
What about ...
… the fact that every single team that Marquis has been a part of has gone to the postseason?
I realize this isn’t cause-and-effect. But it sure is strange. Nine years in a row (presuming the Rockies don’t blow it with a magic # of 1).
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
That's just plain weird.
daver - October 1, 2009
actually his team has always won the division
and with 4 games left and 3 being against the Dodgers, if they win out they win the NL West.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
That's not impossible.
The Dodgers have not been playing well lately.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
The Rockies aren't left handed enough to beat the Dodgers.
santoswoodenlegs - October 1, 2009
We've got a switch-hitting outfielder they can have
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
Todd Helton?
Dexter Fowler, Brad Hawpe, just to name a few.
tripdenten - October 1, 2009
I believe that was sarcasm
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
He and Millar share DNA?
N Oakley - October 1, 2009
If you....
bring back the team as is the Cubs will be viewed as a contender. They have the talent to take the division. I expect bounce back years from Soriano and Soto.
The Cubs will HAVE to raise ticket prices if you want the new ownership group to pick up players Al. I don’t mind if they improve the team. We can’t expect them to not increase revenues after spending nearly 900 million to buy the team.
timeforachange2009 - October 1, 2009
There are other ways to increase revenues.
And they will happen. Trust me on this one.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
You are right......
Personally I do not have a problem with the team raising ticket prices. If you look at the Yankees and the Red Sox, the Cubs are on the low end of the “Big 3”.
If the team wins, people will not complain.
timeforachange2009 - October 1, 2009
True enough.
However, in the current economy, raising ticket prices could cause single-game sales to plummet.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Big Gulp promos!
BTW, haven’t forgotten. I went to fewer games this year than I had in a long time.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
No worries.
Next year, for sure.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Anything to do with renovations and/or the Triangle Building?
Any new word on that, or is it just a case of “Wait for Ricketts”?
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
The Triangle Building will be built...
… but probably not before next year.
There are other things in the works, from what I hear. Can’t say anything about them right now.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
What have you......
heard about PSLs?
timeforachange2009 - October 1, 2009
Nothing, yet.
They may be coming, but I suspect they are a few years off.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
PSLs?
eths - October 1, 2009
Personal Seat Licenses
Read all about ’em here.
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
tnx
eths - October 1, 2009
God, why do you do this so often?
kanderber - October 1, 2009
So you'll piss and moan about it.
santoswoodenlegs - October 1, 2009
I'm not pissing and moaning at all...
I just don’t see the point, at all, of saying stuff like that. It’s essentially “I know things, but I can’t say anything other than that I know things.”
kanderber - October 1, 2009
He's letting us know...
…there are developments underway – think of it as something to look forward to.
daver - October 1, 2009
That's exactly right.
Just like any reporter, I have learned things in talking to people. Some of them I’ve told you all about.
Some of them I’ve been asked not to say anything about, but I still feel that I can say “There are exciting or different things coming, watch for them”. I don’t see why anyone has a problem with that.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
There is a handfull of people here that think you do this for "ratings"
As if SBN is going to pay you a six-figure bonus for more hits.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
TWSA
daver - October 1, 2009
Actually,
Al is very on point. I go to many games, and have for the last few years. Tickets that I would have never dreamed of getting a few seasons ago have been readily available all year long. And often below face value.
Some of the best seats in the house often have half empty rows, and brokers — who I work with quite often — say they’ve been taking major hits, as people can easily walk up to the game day window, and get great seats. And that’s in what was expected to be a good year.
If fans think Ricketts will cheap out the next few seasons, and the Cubs are perceived to be fielding an inferior product, look out below!
Damen Jackson - October 1, 2009
Yeah tickets are really "cheap" these days.
For instance, CBOE seats for tonights game are listed at $59 on stubhub right now. I’ve been taking advantage of this for a month or two now.
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
I saw...
It’s so bad, I purchased a ticket — so help me — first row behind the dugout for $25 about six weeks ago. Talked to a couple of brokers on the way in that day, and let’s just say that the quotes aren’t fit to print.
Damen Jackson - October 1, 2009
Really. Which brokers, may I ask?
I can’t stand the guys sitting outside the El. I’d rather pay a little more than to have to deal with those idiots.
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
I'm not sure it would be appropriate...
to say, but I have done business with Ticket 321, and some of the other guys along that strip. I’ve no problem with them, but with the ample supply, I’ve only had to use them twice this year.
Damen Jackson - October 1, 2009
I got UD boxes behind the plate for Tuesday's game for $16
on StubHub… cubs.mlb.com had seats in the same section for $50. Weird.
ChipSet - October 1, 2009
Not weird, really.
cubs.com has their inventory at face value. Prices for tickes on StubHub are set by individual sellers, in that case likely a season ticket holder who wanted to get some $ back for their tickets rather than eat them and getting nothing.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
yes
Right now is the time to take advantage of the StubHub sale!
vonde6 - October 1, 2009
Mine for Tuesday's game were 406 row 3 for $10 (including fees)
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
For some reason that first game was real fun to watch
Thankfully I skipped the second one, that would not have been as fun
nji232 - October 1, 2009
Would it be the worst thing ever
if Lou put Z in left field or first base for one game this weekend? The fans and Z would love it, and the games don’t matter.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
They could use his bat
In all honesty, he could probably do better than some members of the lineup.
Ace Venom - October 1, 2009
You want to get Z hurt?
That’s the best way to do it.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
He has 6 months to recover
Even torn ACL’s are fixed in that time now. Z could get just as injured in left as Jake Fox or Micah Hoffpauir.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
True.
But he’s not an outfielder. Those guys are (well, sort of).
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
That's the stupidest comment ever made in the history of the universe
“He has 6 months to recover”
Worf - October 1, 2009
You realize how unlikely it is for him to get injured
and that it would almost certainly not be serious. Heaven forbid baseball players have some fun.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
This is the major leagues
not a beer league.
Worf - October 1, 2009
It's a game
The fans would love it, Z would love it. Baseball is a game, let them have fun for once.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
Z has had enough fun this year
Time for him to take his job seriously.
Worf - October 1, 2009
Well, I think this is the key.
He gets to do whatever he wants too much as it is.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
Z did his job this year
all he did was post his best numbers since 2005. But by all means continue your irrational hate of one of the Cubs greatest pitchers.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
By what standard?
At the risk of starting another stats argument, how was this year better for him than any of the previous 3?
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
There doesn't need to be an argument
FIP in 06, 07, 08, 09= 4.14; 4.58; 4.23; 3.60
WAR in 06, 07, 08, 09= 3.9; 2.8; 2.8; 3.6
K/BB (same years)= 1.83; 1.75; 1.81; 1.95
The FIP is helped a bit by a lucky home run rate, but still. You can probably say that his 2006 season was better and I would agree simply because he was able to do that in spite of an awful team.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
I'll agree on WAR
K/BB . . . well, it’s good, it’s important, but I don’t know that it’s definitive.
Don’t know enough about FIP.
The thing is, someone could pick whatever stat they wanted to make their case.
ERA+: 136,118,114,116
I think IP matters, too: 214,216,188,170. DEFINITELY not definitive, but a consideration.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
I see your point
The IP is definitely important, I suppose I should refine my point to say given the same amount of IP Z’s numbers would be the best since 05.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
At any rate
I would like to see him take things more seriously. This seems like a polarizing issue, but a little maturity from Zambrano could go a long way.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
I agree
the meltdowns and the other stuff is kind of annoying, but there is some hypocrisy from the fans on that issue. I see “seriously” and I say that Ryan Dempster spends most games joking around is that taking things “seriously” I don’t know. This is the same Dempster that after 2006 admitted to not keeping himself in shape.
What about the maturity of Ted Lilly? He punched his manager in 2006, and got ejected this year for jumping over a rail and screaming at an umpire.
So yes I would love to see Z show up in great shape and keep up his work and not show up his teammates, but a lot of the time I feel like Z’s issues are unfairly put under a microscope while similar actions from other pitchers isn’t ever scrutinized.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
When Zambrano goofs with Fontenot in the dugout, I think it's hilarious
Singing over the PA system before the game, playing with reporters, bowing to Fukudome . . . I have no issue with any of those things.
Gesticulating on the mound when a teammate makes a mistake, going AWOL, not doing his exercises – those are things that annoy the $hit out of me, and likely his teammates if human nature and Bruce Miles’ blog are to be believed.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
I'm pretty much in agreement on this
I think a bit much is made out of some of those things, him not being in shape is a huge concern though. He needs to do his sit-ups.
I thought he did a good job last postseason with his teammates making mistakes, but he has gotten mad a few times this season.
I certainly see how some of his antics are annoying to fans and even teammates, but at the same time Z has earned some leeway IMO with his pitching. Enough leeway to skip ab work and yell at Bobby Scales for misplaying a fly ball? No.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
I thought the same during game 2 last year
That was not his fault.
I also saw a couple of moments this year when he seemed to be turning a corner, but then regressed later.
I really think not starting him opening day could open his eyes a bit.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
It's not hypocrisy
It’s a perception that got ingrained in the fans’ minds and one which they refuse to give up, no matter what they see in front of them. Zambrano’s immature, Sori’s lazy, and Dempster can’t ever find the strike zone. No number of counter-examples will ever change these perceptions, nor will pointing out reversing trends. I think it’s a shame, really – Zambrano has been a lot calmer and a lot quicker to get his head back after a poor game moment in 2008 and 2009, but all anybody will remember is that he ejected an umpire and beat up a Gatorade machine, because he’s immature, you know…
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
So then he didn't yell at Scales?
He didn’t flip out and try to throw 110 MPH in that 5-run inning against the Brewers?
This is as disingenuous as you are saying others are being. Yes, he’s improved. He’s got a long way to go.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
He ain't perfect
But he doesn’t melt down every start (or even every fifth start), either. Aside from our four examples, what else do we have for our 2009 lowlight reel?
How about that game in San Francisco earlier this year? The game where he gave up a leadoff walk in the 4th? He paced around a bit and cursed at the mound, maybe even spit a little. Total meltdown, and an utter embarrassment for the Cubs.
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
Every pitcher has a bad outing
For the best pitchers, you are surprised when there is a bad outing.
With Zambrano, you are not surprised by anything. He could strike out the side on 9 pitches or walk in a run on 16.
He could hit two homers or he could swing at pitches four feet outside.
He could go 8.1 innings or go 3.1.
Zambrano is like a box of chocolates, only half the chocolates are filled with pigeon droppings.
For where he is in his career, he should be more.
Worf - October 1, 2009
Where did I say it was an utter embarrassment?
And why can’t someone criticize some of his foibels without being labelled a “hater”?
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
Did I say you couldn't criticize?
I just ask that people look at what’s happening rather than fall back on convenient (and often wrong) “common knowledge”. I have been arguing for the better part of two seasons that Zambrano’s behavior has been improving, his tantrums are coming less often, and more importantly, that his emotional reactions to mistakes are having less effect on his next few pitches.
Of the examples we’ve been through, only one of those could be characterized a classic “Z Moment”: one where he makes a mistake and then pitches like an idiot because he’s mad about it. This is a vast improvement over past performances, where a mistake pitch hit for a two-run homer would almost invariably lead to men at first and second five minutes later.
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
No, but you implied that the criticism was wrong
And that I was being stubborn and unfair for doing it.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
And I wasn't even going after you :D
I was trying to direct that at the majority opinion, not at you specifically.
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
Well, ok.
But you replied to a reply to me . . . I was a bit surprised by the response.
Anyway, s’alright.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
The H word got me
I didn’t think that was necessarily directed at you either…
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
Holliday?
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
This is a dumb idea. A really dumb idea.
Think the inverse of Canseco pitching.
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
Yes, Canseco only blew his arm out
But Z has 6 months to recover!
I honestly don’t know how some people manage to walk without falling over.
Worf - October 1, 2009
Agreed.
Even if he could recover, if there’s any truth the rumors he’ll be shopped, he’d better have full value and not be damaged goods.
N Oakley - October 1, 2009
Please.....
don’t ever mention Jake Fox and Micah Hoffpauir in the same sentence.
They are not part of the Cubs future. IMHO, they will not be on the team next year.
timeforachange2009 - October 1, 2009
I wonder
What the Cubs will do with Jake Fox and Micah Hoffpauir in the offseason if they intend to keep trying to work with those guys (i.e. for the future of the team).
Vermont Cubs Fan - October 1, 2009
Rec'd.
Funny stuff.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
That would be a damn clown show
Worf - October 1, 2009
µWorf???
eths - October 1, 2009
C-section scheduled for Oct. 5
unless he comes earlier.
Worf - October 1, 2009
Did you plan it so that you wouldn't miss any games?
katie casey - October 1, 2009
Back in March when we got our due date
I kind of assumed I’d be missing the NLDS, so no, I didn’t plan anything.
Yes, it’s our first.
Worf - October 1, 2009
I was just kidding.
Best wishes!
katie casey - October 1, 2009
Figers crossed that all goes well! Your first?
eths - October 1, 2009
Sorry, I can't sign off on this.
But the mental image of Z in left field (no way he plays first) is amusing.
daver - October 1, 2009
How about RF
With a stiff wind off the lake?
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
well ...
If this had any chance of happening, I’d say play Z at first. But the Cubs want Z to focus on his pitching — and it would be completely Cub-like for Z to get hurt in a meaningless September game PLAYING FIRST and be out for 2010.
elgato - October 1, 2009
What bothers me about yesterday is...
that this “seems” like another time where the 2009 Cubs just showed up mentally, for the game. Especially after playing great for the last week, and then to turn in a couple of clunkers yesterday, against a bad team with 2 no-name pitchers going.
Reminds me of that series, back in August, against Cincinnati where we were playing pretty good, and then got shut out by some no-name pitcher 4-0. that sent the team into a mini tailspin.
Biggest problem this year (besides the lack of clutch hitting) has been the inability to take advantage of the rookie or no-name pitchers (on other teams) who seem to really dominate us most of the time they face us.
Lack of preparation, or just lack of concentration on a daily level?
CubFanSince1970 - October 1, 2009
The Cubs struggle with rookie pitchers
Especially the bad ones. The death of every Cubs team in my lifetime is the soft-tossing lefty who throws lots of junk at the plate (Doug Davis, Chris Capuano, that Narverson guy last week).
nji232 - October 1, 2009
Keep in mind the lineups the Cubs put out there.
Like I said, not exactly the “A” lineups, for either game.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Yesterday wasn't a big deal
Nobody wants to play these games, plus Morton is actually a good pitcher I think.
Also add Wandy to the list of lefties that kill us, and I should add that for some reason Derrek Lee doesn’t struggle with this type of pitcher. The rest of the team does though.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
Like I said...
… the Cubs beat Morton badly on August 14. And with mostly a substitute lineup that day, too.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
If only we could hit like that everyday
nji232 - October 1, 2009
Yeah
Lee only struggles against Russ Ortiz, not sure what his numbers are exactly, but they’re pathetic.
tripdenten - October 1, 2009
I'd say the Rockies sent the Cubs into a tailspin
and that no-name Reds pitcher shut down the Cardinals in his next start and went 5-1 or some such record.
Please, that series wrapup against the Reds didn’t send anybody into anything. They won two out of three.
Not Bruce Froemming - October 1, 2009
That no-name Reds pitcher
has definitely pitched well since then. He only has an ERA of 6.55, WHIP of 1.7, and averaging less than 6 IP a game. And he only gave up 11 hits to the Cardinals in 6 innnings. Definitely didn’t get lucky with 3 double plays.
Spotacus - October 1, 2009
FWIW...
…Lou did say during the postgame last night that Aramis would play tonight. Of course, that’s assuming: a) the game isn’t rained out, and b) Lou doesn’t change his mind.
Z’s start last night was fairly evocative of his entire ‘09 season. Not great, but not horrible. Coulda done better, coulda done worse. At one point, he seemed to indicate his back was bothering him a little bit. Let’s just hope he comes back a little healthier and happier next season.
daver - October 1, 2009
Sit Aramis for the rest of the year.
There is absolutely no reason to play him again this year. None. I could care less if the Cubs don’t win another game this season, as long as Aramis starts his full recovery.
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
Amen
Worf - October 1, 2009
Amen
+1
eths - October 1, 2009
Amen
+16
katie casey - October 1, 2009
Well, I'd like to win a few more games...
…starting with a split of this now-disappointing Pirates series. But if it’s cold and damp tonight, perhaps starting Aramis would be a bad idea. Why not let him start one of the day games vs. the D’Backs?
daver - October 1, 2009
I know you "play to win the game,"
but I don’t think it’s worth the risk.
This would be a good excuse to get Fox some more playing time there.
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
Hey, coach, do you ever play to lose the game?
daver - October 1, 2009
Get out.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
Agreed.
Aramis should only play again if the weather is conducive to playing. The only day through Sunday where the weather is forecast to be even halfway decent is… Sunday. Maybe put him out there for a couple of innings and one or two AB, or just pinch hit him once so he can get a little applause.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
I suppose I'd be okay with only playing him in optimal weather...
…and only for a short amount of time. I like the pinch hit on Sunday idea.
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
I don't know
I’d play him Sunday for fan appreciation day. Get him a couple at-bats and take him out.
But I understand your point.
elgato - October 1, 2009
Same for me
Play him Sunday for the last game and maybe let him pinch hit.
Doggie Stalker - October 1, 2009
Agreed
sue369 - October 1, 2009
Meant to say
in the first line…“but not mentally”
CubFanSince1970 - October 1, 2009
Just for fun
Carlos Zambrano 2009- 28 starts 169.1 IP 3.6 WAR 3.60 FIP
Ted Lilly 2009- 27 starts 177 IP 3.7 WAR 3.64 FIP
nji232 - October 1, 2009
Wow, interesting.
I think that goes to show how good a pitcher Big Z is. Even when he has a “down” year, it’s really not all that down. Again, staying healthy has got to be a huge priority for Carlos next season.
daver - October 1, 2009
some pitchers ...
seem to be able to win more games with less stuff. I was always baffled that Kerry Wood, when he was healthy as a starter from 2001-03, didn’t win more games. His best win total was 14!
Meanwhile, Lilly, who’s stuff and numbers aren’t really as good wins 15 games a year. Is it a mental thing? Control?
elgato - October 1, 2009
The Cubs were 18-10 in Zambrano's starts.
W-L records for starting pitchers can be very misleading. It has nothing to do with “a mental thing” and everything to do with the way bullpens are used (and occasionally blow leads for starters).
See this post I wrote in February 2005 to see why Kerry Wood didn’t win more than 12 games in 2002. He could have won 19 if the Cubs had a better bullpen that year.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Not criticizing Wood
And obviously wins are a team stat. But Wood had THREE seasons where he seemed to have a low win total relative to his performance. And the 2001 and 2003 Cubs were 88-win clubs!
(I’m also in no way criticizing Ted Lilly)
Anyway, I wasn’t commenting on ONE season where a pitcher had bad luck and didn’t get run or bullpen support. It’s possible that watching Wood for 10 years (and Matt Clement for three) makes me think this is more common among pitchers.
I would hazard a guess that pitchers with B+ stuff who win a lot of games do so because they have very good control and can stick around games longer (Lilly being a great example). Wood and Zambrano have nastier stuff than Lilly, but they walk more guys and up their pitch counts.
Like I said — this is a guess, so don’t flame me if I’m wrong. If I had more time to goof off at work, I’d check Z’s win total in the past few years relative to his walk total (and taking his health into consideration).
Back to work.
elgato - October 1, 2009
I repeat, and stand by my point.
Individual pitcher wins are, in this day & age of few CG’s, very team-dependent. The Cubs went 18-10 in Z’s 28 starts this year. The fact that he himself is 9-7 is pretty much irrelevant.
The Cubs were 16-11 in Lilly’s 27 starts; he was 12-9.
Do the W-L records tell you who pitched “better”? No, they do not.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Not trying to say which pitcher is better
… or which pitcher is even more valuable. But, setting aside health, I think there is a reason why some pitchers consistently win a lot of games, and why others consistently win fewer games than one might expect.
elgato - October 1, 2009
Respectfully disagreeing with you.
It’s far more random than you might think.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
that's fine
Arguments like this are what make sports fun. But I still think there’s a reason that guys with good control — Lilly, Marquis — consistently (or at least, often) wrack up more wins than guys with better stuff (Wood, Clement, Z in 2008 and 2009 and Rich Hill in 2007).
Higher pitch counts mean the strikeout pitchers (who walk a lot of guys) can’t stay in games as long when they don’t have great stuff.
elgato - October 1, 2009
Your point about pitch counts is taken.
But again, even the guys who get yanked early, can often leave with a lead and then have the bullpen blow the game.
Z made 28 starts this year and had 16 decisions. Is that his fault? Or the bullpen’s?
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
A little of each, I'd say.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
Really?
A no-decision is Z’s fault? How?
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
If he's not doing enough to stay in the game
By all rights, he should have lost this game . . . but he got a no-decision.
Is that the bullpen’s “fautl”?
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
He should have lost it?
How? He left with the score tied.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Did he deserve to win?
Here’s his line:
5 IP 6 H 5 R 5 ER 4 BB 9 K
Is it the bullpen’s fault that he got a ND, as you were suggesting it often is? Maybe the offense, for not scoring 6 runs by the fifth?
You’re right that it is team-depednent. Sometimes, however, the pitcher is more responsible than others.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
According to baseball reference
Zambrano had:
1 win lost — as in he left in position to win and it was blown by the bullpen
AND
6 losses saved — as in he left in position to lose and the team came back and won.
So, shut up, Z.
Worf - October 1, 2009
Erm, well, it probably has more to do with the fact that...
…wins are a team-dependent stat. If the team doesn’t score runs, you don’t get the win – no matter how well you pitch. And Lilly’s numbers – with the Cubs at least – have actually been quite good.
daver - October 1, 2009
obviously wins are a team stat
See response to Al above.
elgato - October 1, 2009
I should add the dollar value for those WAR
Z is at $16.4 million, Ted at $16.8.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
Random thoughts
The picture looks great, because the Cardinal flag doesn’t show up against the cloud. Cubs are 1st of 5 teams . . .
Actually, that would have been 0 runs.
And, since Jessica hasn’t posted it yet, it’s Al’s fault for his pregame commentary on the two Pirate starters!
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
Yeah, I thought about that.
It’s a very different game if it’s scoreless or 1-0 after that inning. For one thing, the Pirates probably would have batted for Morton in the 7th — get him out of there and maybe the scrub Cubs score off the Pirates bullpen.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
The first game last evening was like a half inflated beach ball,
or to say it in (southern) German: Für heuer, ist irgendwie ist die Luft raus…
Or visually:
The second game didn’t start until about 2 AM here, so I didn’t watch it.
eths - October 1, 2009
Post contention-loss syndrome?
eths - October 1, 2009
It's sad to see such low turnouts.
What’s the reasoning? Cold weather? Out of contention? Fans that are fed up with this team? Spoiled by the recent success? A combination of all those?
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
Out of contention is #1
Games that don’t matter are less interesting. Add in the economy and you’ve got it.
Worf - October 1, 2009
One of the few good things about being out of contention...
…is the premium seats are going for next to nothing. I’ve sat a few rows behind home plate for around $50 a handful of times already.
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
Wear a BCB shirt and wave at the camera next time...
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
That's a good idea but...
…it’s FREEZING at night!
This season has come full circle for me. Freezing my butt off during the opening day at Wrigley and doing the same now.
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
Yes.
daver - October 1, 2009
If the weather had been better this week, more people would have shown up.
I was surprised at the 13,000 for the day game yesterday.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Yeah, I agree.
If the weather’s nice, people will still come out for the recreational factor. I, for one, would’ve really liked one of those Snoopy dolls for my daughter.
daver - October 1, 2009
The Fergie bobble heads were pretty cool.
I wonder who didn’t get one at the game.
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
All the bobbleheads this year were nicely done.
Much better than previous years.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Did you see the video highlights
from the Indian/White Sox game? Made Wrigley look downright crowded.
Out of contention, tough season with drama and under achieving to expectations, week night after school back in session, cooler weather, few major league regulars.
Nothing to judge here, carry on.
N Oakley - October 1, 2009
Let's not use the Sox as the ruler with which we measure ourselves.
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
It was in Cleveland, but all teams suffer no shows
on the cold week nights after school is in session, unless they are fighting towards or have made the playoffs.
N Oakley - October 1, 2009
Nice to meet you too, Al!
When I told my daughter that she missed meeting you and seeing Snoopy throw out the first pitch she asked if I was awestruck-meaning you of course, not Snoopy.
We had a bit of a laugh when I predicted Baker’s double! I turned to my husband and said, he’s going to hit a double. He asked where and I said I didn’t know, but he’s going to hit a double. And he did! I pulled something like that at our last game saying Miles would go 4-3 which of course he did too. That was just something I learned from reading here and was able to call no problem. This double was just a lucky guess, but it was priceless to see his reaction. My son wasn’t as impressed with that as he was impressed that we were near the Ferris Bueller seats. Unfortunately his imitation of Cameron’s “hey batter, batter, batter sah-wing batter batter” was better than much of the game.
Thanks again for stopping by.
katie casey - October 1, 2009
My pleasure.
Maybe we should have started Snoopy in left field. He’d have had a better shot at catching that ball than Hoffpauir.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Imagine Snoopy and Fukudome in the same lineup
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
I like this idea better than the Z idea above.
Would he know to hit the cutoff man?
katie casey - October 1, 2009
You can only spit a baseball so far
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
Are you sure you would have wanted to risk this happening?
Vermont Cubs Fan - October 1, 2009
Is that Aaron Miles behind the mound?
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Miles is in the bowl
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
No, it can't be him.
Snoopy has a higher batting average than Miles does this year.
Vermont Cubs Fan - October 1, 2009
Wouldn't be surprising
eths - October 1, 2009
I don't even know what to say about this
Let’s just pretend it never happened.
Mapmaker - October 1, 2009
meh
This was meaningless. Games like the Justin Lehr shutout are far harder to take.
elgato - October 1, 2009
No
Games like the 9th-inning loss to the Padres are harder to take. I don’t think Cardinals fans are agonizing that Justin Lehr shut them down, too.
Not Bruce Froemming - October 1, 2009
Pretend that what never happened?
eths - October 1, 2009
Let us never speak of this again.
daver - October 1, 2009
Speak of what again?
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Did anybody see the Cardinals whining again last night?
John Smoltz was having trouble throwing strikes (shocking from a 42 year old on his last leg) and he decided it was the baseball’s fault. What happened next was a series of child like quotes and excuse making from Tony LaRussa, Dave Duncan, and Smoltz. All this while Bronson Arroyo was tossing 8.1 innings of 1-run ball.
Of course Duncan manages to accuse Arroyo of cheating too. The recap of the game has all the fun quotes.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
but, damnit ...
St. Louis is a great organization, and the best baseball town in America!
elgato - October 1, 2009
Busch Stadium is home to the best Hot Dog Vendors in America
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
Interesting.
Joe Strauss, the Cards beat reporter for the Dispatch, mentioned the incident on Twitter last night.
daver - October 1, 2009
After complaining about the mound being too high (or perhaps it was low)
over the weekend in Colorado, it is starting to become a trend of excuse making. These are incidents involving LaRussa, Duncan, Smoltz, and Chris Carpenter (the mound thing) four guys who are considered professionals and “class acts”. They should be above petty whining.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
LaRussa's always been a whiner
My favorite was when he insinuated Maddux was doctoring the ball because his crappy players couldn’t hit his pitches.
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
I'm doing my best to resist the temptation to go on a long LaRussa rant
So I’ll just say this- LaRussa needs to shut up and manage the game.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
Some of it is gamesmanship
But I’m not sure how he’ll benefit in this case.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
It wouldn't shock me if Dusty took a few trips to the umpires today
Considering he isn’t exactly LaRussa’s biggest fan to begin with.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
He should, actually.
Unless someone changes jobs, they’ll meet again. Get it in Tony’s head that he’s not going to just stand by idly.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
Fighting LaRussa and the Cardinals through proxy?
I approve and support this notion.
chilango2 - October 1, 2009
Matt Holliday just asked for a ball to be checked
Dusty might as well accuse Carpenter of cheating next inning.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
In that article, I don't think Smoltz said anything over the line.
LaRussa and Duncan are jerks. The way I read that, the pine tar accusation was completely without any shred of proof, that he had to be if he was getting the Cardinals out.
Funny thing is, the rookie catcher handled the situation the best out of any of them.
I was getting on the let’s get Duncan train, was not sure on Larussa. I think we can win w/o those guys, I don’t want either of them in Cubby blue.
BleedsbluinMI - October 1, 2009
The picture in the article...
appears to be their proof
Link
smmcctrk - October 1, 2009
A dirty line on the bill of his cap isn't proof, and Larussa's quote
“I’m sure he had pine tar on his cap. He didn’t have any problem getting a grip.” doesn’t indicate he even saw that. In that article he offers nothing else that it is his opinion.
Arroyo may have had some pine tar, he is probably the only one who knows for sure. Unless something else comes out, there is no proof and the coaches handled it poorly. That is the point.
BleedsbluinMI - October 1, 2009
This just took a hilarious turn
Julian Tavarez was ejected in 2004 while on the Cardinals for having too much pine tar on his cap. LaRussa then says “nothing is proven”.
nji232 - October 1, 2009
The Cardinals sure aren't
going into the postseason with all guns blazing, are they?
Not Bruce Froemming - October 1, 2009
Not even looking like a lock for home field!
AndrewJStone - October 1, 2009
The only team really playing well now among the NL postseason teams...
… is the Phillies.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
The pic of CF bleachers being closed off is a little unsettling.
- reminds me of games in mid-60’s, usually on the weekends, when Brick thought it was an important piece of gameday information to give us, “and today they have opened up the upper deck!”
What I find unsetteling is not that only 17,000 or showed up for a cold day in Sept when we have been eliminated. But, that almost an equal number of “fans” paid for a seat and then decided it wasn’t worth the effort to go. I’m not sure what that means but it feels significant. Who are these “fans” ?
BatCubFan - October 1, 2009
Probably a lot of those...
… are season ticket holders who don’t necessarily come to every game.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
How many season ticket holders,
are there, like you I think, in the bleachers? I assummed it to be a very small number.
As for the rest of the park, isn’t there some buy back / resale plan the Cubs run? I don’t mean to diss any season ticket holders, but a certain segment seems to fit the stereotype of business/entertainment, the go to be seen crowd, seems to apply.
These games are mostly sold out at the beginning of the year. I would rather see a family going to their first game of the year sitting in the park, than the ghosts of season ticket holders.
BatCubFan - October 1, 2009
There are about 150 bleacher season ticket holders, from my understanding.
The Cubs don’t have a buyback/resale program. Season ticket holders can resell on StubHub, and I assume a lot of the below-face listings there are from STH who want to recoup some $ from games they can’t attend, rather than get zero.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
There are about 150 bleacher season ticket holders, from my understanding.
The Cubs don’t have a buyback/resale program. Season ticket holders can resell on StubHub, and I assume a lot of the below-face listings there are from STH who want to recoup some $ from games they can’t attend, rather than get zero.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
There are about 150 bleacher season ticket holders, from my understanding.
The Cubs don’t have a buyback/resale program. Season ticket holders can resell on StubHub, and I assume a lot of the below-face listings there are from STH who want to recoup some $ from games they can’t attend, rather than get zero.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
I heard you twice the first time.
santoswoodenlegs - October 1, 2009
oh man, Al, if you typed that in front of a mirror, you're a dead man.
btw – can I have your season tickets? ;-)
ballhawk - October 1, 2009
hat trick!
vonde6 - October 1, 2009
LOL
I meant to delete the other two posts, but couldn’t get there before the first reply. Oh, well.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
You have to remember...
that this was a makeup game as well. People who were able to come to a night game in the summer were not necessarily able to come back to attend a mid-week, afternoon set in the fall.
Damen Jackson - October 1, 2009
i plan on going down this weekend
im assuming the scalpers are taking a beating right now. is that true? I’d like to get back in to wrigley before the year is over but if I can beat one of the scalpers and get under face value id like to do that.
mjk83 - October 1, 2009
Don't waste your time with the scalpers.
Check out stubhub, you can get great deals.
cubswynn - October 1, 2009
ok
ill take a look at that.
thanks
mjk83 - October 1, 2009
Wait until
after the game starts, the scalpers get desperate this time of season, they will go as low as you want. Half price or lower.
tripdenten - October 1, 2009
Like a hooker at an AARP convention.
santoswoodenlegs - October 1, 2009
Armed And Really Pissed ?
eths - October 1, 2009
If cubs win out they would be 10 over .500
for the first time all year, right?
doofus cubs guy - October 1, 2009
Correct.
High water mark is 9 over.
Al Yellon - October 1, 2009
Aug 4 to be exact.
And then we gave it all back. On Aug 22 we were only 1 over. There’s your season right there in those 18 days.
BigJohnAZ - October 1, 2009
I just talked to my brother
He was saying some of our relatives that were at the day game had 500 level seats and were told to move down to the 400 level. ive never heard of them doing that before.
mjk83 - October 1, 2009
The picture of Hoff/Fuld shows how well Fuld was positioned
for that ball. It is a shame that Hoff had to plow into him and cause the problems in that inning. If Hoff backs off, I think that was an easy catch for Sammy. As the picture shows, he has his body ready to square up to that ball. But at least Z didn’t blow a fuse over it.
Hoff was just doing his job, but he has to understand that in CF that night, he had a guy who usually gets a damn good jump on the ball.
LAcarl519 - October 1, 2009
My thoughts exactly when I saw the play. I immediately said that was Fuld's ball, Hoff needs to know to back off.
BleedsbluinMI - October 1, 2009
There is also that magical thing called saying "I got it"....
santoswoodenlegs - October 1, 2009
Is that one of those "fundamentals" I keep hearing so much about?
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
You mean like...
hitting a cutoff man
running good routes to flyballs
setting up behind a flyball
catching fly balls on your throwing side
bunting
secondary leads
moving a runner over with less than 2 outs
not walking the leadoff man
knowing how many out there are
running hard to first on every ball in play
not missing signs
Yeah…those boring, non-exciting, unmeasurable, useless things.
santoswoodenlegs - October 1, 2009
where do you see that stuff happening?????
doofus cubs guy - October 1, 2009
Usually in my son's little league games.
santoswoodenlegs - October 1, 2009
well don't worry then - as soon as he gets drafted by the cubs
he’ll start unlearning all those non-exciting, unmeasurable, useless things!
doofus cubs guy - October 1, 2009
Better be lefty.
AndrewJStone - October 1, 2009
Alas Sam missed a chance for another Web Gem.
Doggie Stalker - October 1, 2009
Chris Carpenter just hit a Grand Slam
Ugh!
kanderber - October 1, 2009
In case anyone wants FREE tickets
My pair of terrace reserve is available tonight and tomorrow. I will be sitting in the bleachers but I still had tonight and my friend who has tomorrow does not want to go.
You can e mail me at maddux2014 at gmail dot com. Might have a single for Sunday
as well if you want to sit next to ME. Mom has to go out of town. She always goes to the last game with me.
Doggie Stalker - October 1, 2009
Sit next to you?
What would we talk about?
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
I do have at least 1000 Maddux stories
but we could always talk about Lou’s managing skills ( or lack there of) or Sam Fuld.
Doggie Stalker - October 1, 2009
Note the last link :P
Clutch16 - October 1, 2009
I read the link
That is why I said I could to 1000 Maddux stories. I just wanted to point out I could
talk on few other things too. Perhaps we could talk about the underrated silent stars Max Davidson & Raymond Griffith or maybe the current state of foreign film distribution in the United States ?
Doggie Stalker - October 1, 2009
Was anyone surprised
when Piniella didn’t go out and argue the play at 2nd where the player was clearly out? The replays showed the force as Theriot dove and beat the runner. I saw Lou get up but he obviously wasn’t interested enough to argue the call. Every day he seems to just go through the motions waiting for the final bell.
I have it from a good source that he and Scales are going fishing as soon as they can get back to Florida.
tharr - October 1, 2009
I seem to recall Lou
going out to argue a call sometime over the last few games.
This portrait of an apathetic Lou some people love to paint is one that doesn’t seem to jibe with my observations. I’m not sure what they want him to do, short of screaming like a lunatic at least once a game.
Not Bruce Froemming - October 1, 2009
+1
vonde6 - October 1, 2009
I want him
to be actively involved in managing the team. Contrary to your concept, that includes disputing calls that are wrong. And yes, he did go out a few games ago but he did not stir when the play at 2B occurred.
tharr - October 1, 2009
I don't recall the play in question
And I’m not taking either side. However -
If you go out to argue every call, it becomes counter-productive in a hurry.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
Of course
I don’t expect him to go postal or cry wolf all the time. However, yesterday the team was obviously not focused. It was a perfect time to remind them that they have an obligation to bring more intensity to the park. If the manager doesn’t seem to care, how can we expect the players?
tharr - October 1, 2009
Well, that's hard to argue
Again, I didn’t see the play. I did see the one where Fuld clearly got back to second base . . . was surprised no one argued that.
Shanghai Badger - October 1, 2009
You are right
That was the play I should have referred to in my comment. Thank you for your correction.
tharr - October 1, 2009
As one of my old editors used to say,
“intensity” sucks.
Not Bruce Froemming - October 1, 2009
How do you
feel about indifference?
tharr - October 1, 2009
meh...
ballhawk - October 1, 2009
How do I feel about ignorance and apathy?
I don’t know and I don’t care. :-)
Not Bruce Froemming - October 2, 2009
+1
vonde6 - October 1, 2009
Yes, I enjoyed Al's recap, too.
daver - October 1, 2009
Rockies
Up 7 -1 over Brewers. Interesting situation for them. Do they celebrate big time after winning this game or do they concentrate on sweeping L.A. & winning division?
KedzieKid - October 1, 2009
focus on winning the division
… if they get it, they’d have more of a home-field advantage in the playoffs.
elgato - October 1, 2009
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