Three days and over 3000 comments worth of posts here... and the Cubs have made no moves.
It feels almost like a certain existential bit of writing...
As yesterday, use this post for all Winter Meetings discussion. If Milton Bradley is dealt today -- or if the Cubs make any other significant moves -- I'll make a separate post.
0 recs | 958 comments
Milton Bradley is DADA
stream club said. save gain
NDIANAPOLIS flag? "And million?‘’ or don’t
Cubs why releasing him. away
Jim Hendry’s efforts don’t any
24/7 rumors … 2008 over
trade of million?’’ any can
endless white explore to organization
Milton the with], have an
72 So we’re players problems,‘’
Bradley can money We having
hours not who pain doesn’t
So reasons that? have the
eths - December 10, 2009
Is this Haiku or Yoda?
Zeke - December 10, 2009
DADA
eths - December 10, 2009
Looks more like MAMA to me... ;)
Zeke - December 10, 2009
+1
big DADA enthusiast here.
Emelie - December 10, 2009
In my case especially the Berlin group
Huelsenbeck, Heartfield, Grosz, Baader, etc.
eths - December 10, 2009
Berlin rocks the house!
I fell deeply in love with that city. Second only to NYC.
Emelie - December 10, 2009
I prefer Munich but my brother is in Berlin
Two other really cool cities in my book: Cairo and Istanbul.
eths - December 10, 2009 via mobile
Munich has the coolest airport
love those sleep pods hanging from the ceiling
Emelie - December 10, 2009
Same
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
I've already addressed Milton's DADA...
Defense Against Dark Arts.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Ooooh, good plug.
Green.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
Trade Bradley for a bag of balls andbe done with it already!
ZeoBandit - December 10, 2009
Trade Bradley, Fontenot and...
Vitters for a single ball and a rake and send no money. Sign Cameron and spend remainder on the bullpen.
Let’s move on.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
Cue up the Carly Simon and the Heinz Ketchup...
…“AN-ti-ci-pay, ay shun…”
Zeke - December 10, 2009
And for MB,
♪You’re so vain . . . I bet you think this post is about you♫
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
I agree that this turned into Seinfeld....
3000 comments about nothing and just like the show, I’m mesmerized. I have to tune and too see that nothing has happened.
Tom Verducci yesterday stated that MB probably won’t be traded by the end of the Winter meetings but he will get traded before the start of Spring Training.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
This is why fish tanks are so popular.
It’s not like the fish are really DOING anything…
…but still, we stare…
Zeke - December 10, 2009
Not doing is the purest form of doing
eths - December 10, 2009
Da-doo-ron-ron...
Zeke - December 10, 2009
Do-be-do-be-do...
De-doo-doo-doo, de-da-da-da…
MN exile - December 10, 2009
Emelie - December 10, 2009
MB=
rut ro raggy
LT - December 10, 2009
I for one can't wait!
Until the Cubs pass on the Rule 5. Somebody tweet me when this happens!
BucknerKongCardenal - December 10, 2009
Bradley vs. Lowell
Given the bogus-rumor of a Lowell for Bradley swap and that Lowell appears headed to a once possible Bradley destination, I thought it interesting to compare the two players and how much $ JIm Hendry will need to eat.
For starters, compare their stats:
Milton Bradley
Mike Lowell
Lowell put up better numbers in 2009 and he is sort of the anti-Bradley in terms of character. He does have some significant injury questions that hurt his value. That said, Lowell had a few more plate appearances than Bradley this last year.
To make this trade happen, the BoSox are eating between 2/3 and 3/4 of Lowell’s $12M salary for 2010. Sure, the prospect, Max Ramirez, looks far better than anything mentioned as a return for Bradley. However, it is the $$$ going to Texas that says something.
Plain and simple, I just don’t believe that any team has any interest in committing more than ~$3M to a 2011 Milton Bradley (what if he gets hurt, what if his super crazy behavior isn’t just a Cub/Wrigley/Chicago thing and he is just coming unwound, etc.), so Hendry just needs to deal with this reality and move on.
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
on a side note
I’m stunned that the Red Sox could net Max Ramirez. I mean, granted, they are eating a lot … but that’s a pretty good prospect for Mike Lowell.
toonsterwu - December 10, 2009
Agreed 100%
I couldn’t believe that when I saw that.
Wreckard - December 10, 2009
Twitter tweet
CarrieMuskat #cubs scrambling to move Bradley. Rays employee says they’re under no obligation to help, and prefer 1 year of Burrell to 2 with Milton
eths - December 10, 2009
If that's true....
… then just eat the $12m already and do it.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
I don't know a realistic number
the Cubs would have to eat to move him to the Rays, I know with Soriano now the Rays purse strings are pretty tight this year, but ‘11 is a year in which the Cubs will have ~30mil come off the books not counting Burrell or arb raises etc.., so hopefully the Cubs don’t have to eat all of it, $10mil if they get more desperate?
CubFanRaysaddict - December 10, 2009
I assume...
… that since the $9m already scheduled to be paid to both Bradley & Burrell is a “sunk cost” to both the Rays and Cubs — in other words, it has to be paid to someone.
The issue is the $12m due to Bradley in 2010. Just do it, already. The Cubs will draw 3 million fans in 2010. Put a $4 surcharge on every ticket. I’d pay it.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
How different things would be ...
if Hendry had only given MB two years (no option) and Miles one year.
elgato - December 10, 2009
hmm,
This was supposed to go in the Rule 5 discussion below
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
haha
I can only fly up to make 5-10 games a year, but i’d pay it too. Though I think the Rays might get a little greedy about next years money, since they paid $2 mil in advance on his 2010 salary at the time he signed his contract. Hopefully not because the Cubs are going to have to eat a ton already, though Andrew Friedman is a great GM and everyone in the world knows the Cubs situation.
CubFanRaysaddict - December 10, 2009
The Bradley tax...
Could you think of something more embarrassing? That a city literally paid for you to leave town.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
Paying your mistress
not to speak to the press, then having 10 other girls come out with similar allegations and one being a Perkins waitress (sorry of the OT).
CubFanRaysaddict - December 10, 2009
the woods situation is getting ridiculous
he really needs to go into a shell and hide for the winter. Skip golf for about half a year and figure out your life.
toonsterwu - December 10, 2009
He was bedding all sorts of different women and playing golf for his job...
what about his life does he need to “figure out”?
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I think we all need to "figure out" how to get that life.
Tangled Up In Blue - December 10, 2009
considering some of the women he's been with
he needs to at least figure out how many STDs he’s walking around with
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
that too
geesh, i can’t believe that wonder years chick turned into a porn star. That said, this is getting quite OT.
toonsterwu - December 10, 2009
wonder years chick?
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
The one with the special talents
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
the only Wonder Years chick I remember is Winnie Cooper
and she’s not a porn star.
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
i'd say he needs to figure out his marriage and family
toonsterwu - December 10, 2009
The Divorce Court will do that for him.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
We could have probably collected enough money last year to pay off Aaron Miles' 2010 deal.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
High Schools can't have sports but we can pay a tax to get rid of a Professional Ball Player
what has society come too?
:P
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Exactly
I wouldn’t pay a single cent I found beneath my couch cushions for this guy or the Cubs. Hendry painted himself into a corner, let him figure a way out. Maybe he’ll learn his lesson and stop his frivolous spending ways.
propheteer - December 10, 2009
I like that
With the new breakdown in all the costs that go into the tickets that the Cubs put on season tickets, I would love to see a line that says:
Dump Bradley Surcharge: $4
ZeoBandit - December 10, 2009
I wouldn't be surprised...
…that when the Cubs made the decision to hike ticket prices after a dissappointing year, raising money to help cover the cost of a bad contract or two, probably was in their thought process.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
LOL
One-noter
DGU - December 10, 2009
Correct Hendry's Mistake Surcharge $4
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
why not just charge Hendry instead of us?
digitalbenjamin - December 10, 2009
I'm all for that
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
Hmm...
So, Hendry is far along in deal talks with a least one team enough to have gotten past the cash and personality considerations, and into adding in players, and Tampa is countering with they don’t feel obligated to help Hendry out? Maybe I’m reading these tea leaves wrong, but I think you get your deal today. Sounds like Jim doesn’t want to leave without trading Bradley, and keeps pushing the Rays off on an answer, feeling that he’s hadt that deal in his back pocket.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
interesting
elgato - December 10, 2009
If that's the case...
… GETITDONEJIM
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Cutting Losses
It is looking increasingly as if this will be the only option, so, yes, finish it.
I recall reading early on in the “Bradley Sleepstakes” that the Rays would only take on Bradley if they had an out after the first year.
Considering how immovable Bradley has been, the only out any team is going to have on Bradley if he doesn’t work out in 2010 is to cut him before 2011.
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
Don't worry GWNstatic
there is “considerable” interest in Bradley
digitalbenjamin - December 10, 2009
Time for Ricketts to intervene
Milton Bradley is going nowhere unless the Cubs eat his entire salary, either directly or via a trade where the money is a $20 million wash. I for the life of me don’t understand why this is so hard to grasp by BCB faithful. Nobody wants Milton Bradley layered on top of a poorish baseball economy and where a glut of decent (and cheap) outfielder types will be non-tendered in January.
Another team would have to be absolutely insane to want to trade for Bradley unless the money is a neutral game for them. And even then, who on bloody earth REALLY wants his toxic presence for the possible upside he stays healthy and can be focused for the first time in his checkered career.
BLou - December 10, 2009
Grudgingly, for once I tend to agree
eths - December 10, 2009
Bingo
Plan A doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. Fact it is kinda making the Cubs look foolish and out of it. Time for Ricketts to sign off on eating the millions. He must of known the state of the Cubs when he spent months trying to buy them.
Remember how long it took Hendry to trade Sosa? All off-season. They had to almost wait until every other available OF was off the market.
BucknerKongCardenal - December 10, 2009
interestingly ...
I think Sosa’s contract guaranteed another (fifth?) year if he was traded. That was waived when he was sent to Baltimore.
Think MB would be willing to waive his third year? :)
elgato - December 10, 2009
Probably the only thing Bradley would be willing to waive
Is his middle finger at all of us.
BucknerKongCardenal - December 10, 2009
There'd have to be some clause in his contract allowing him to do that.
I believe Sosa’s contract specifically stipulated that if he got traded, a club option turned into a player option or something like that.
Poloplaya14 - December 10, 2009
No class act
I was thinking the same thing, but I didn’t remember the context of Sosa’s contract. Say all the negatives you want about Sosa, but he made it easier for the Cubs to trade him by giving up that one-more-year-if-traded provision.
Bradley’s status as a player is different because he has more potential to help a team than Sosa had when he left Chicago. Bradley should take some responsibility for what happened though. The union would have to sign-off on that, but it would show that he wants to play and not stick-it to anybody.
AboutTheCubs - December 10, 2009
BLou
I must admit I disagree with about 95% of your posts, this one however you are spot on. No one, and I mean no one is going to eat any of MB contract unless the Cubs pay for the overage.
Why on Gods green earth would anyone want MB for any cost IMO.
Grockcubs - December 10, 2009
I don't understand...
…why this concept is so difficult for folks to understand, especially in these economic times for clubs.
All the BS early on about interest in Bradley was tire kicking, and no GM in their right mind is going to take him on with any significant financial obligation.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
Who, exactly, is having trouble understanding this?
You are right about the fact that they aren’t getting much, but your chest pounding is misguided.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
I'm basing that...
…on some of the trades I have seen folks propose. Most of them would require a GM that was certifiable to get completed.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
Whoops - sorry MPH73
I meant to reply to BLou . . .
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Those that were proposing Bradley to the O's earlier for one
rlpete - December 10, 2009
Not really much different than a lot of the other trade proposals we see around here
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
I agree...
I believe that if Hendry can’t trade him during these “meetings”, then MB will be at Spring Training, with Hendry waiting for some other team"s RF to blow his knee out before April.
Easy Ed - December 10, 2009
This makes sense
Yet, strangely whenever this was brought up it was routinely shot down for the belief that there were teams fighting themselves to get Bradley (slight exaggeration).
Spot on.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
BLou, correct my if, I'm wrong...
but I assumed you mean the Ricketts need to step in to stop the dumping of Bradley. Or have you flip-flopped yet again?
You watch. I’m wrong about a lot of things, but I don’t think I’m going to be wrong on this one.
Andronicus - December 10, 2009
It will be dualing mea culpas with Hendry, Lou and Bradley
all attending and telling all they are the one who should have handled things better, etc.
The B.S. will be thick.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
As long as the winning is thicker.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
If that happens I give it two weeks into the season
before Mt. Milton blows his top and starts complaining about the size of his locker or how the grounds crew is racist because of the way in which they cut the grass in Right Field at Wrigley or something else and we get the pleasure of another season of the Milton Bradley show.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
If that happens, the deal is outlined beforehand by Hendry.
“Listen MB, you show up, shut up, and produce and I will get you out of here to an AL team as quickly as possible. You F this up and you’re done.”
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
Define "done".
Milton gets paid whether he plays or not, at least through 2011.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Gone
Threaten him with his own reputation. It certainly couldn’t hurt, cause everyone knows damn well he won’t get another multi-year contract until he shows some maturity. Future money is what you tell him he’s going to lose.
propheteer - December 10, 2009
That's like threatening Britney Spears with her reputation
jerry morales rules - December 10, 2009
Sure
but he may be very money motivated after all this backlash. He might tone it down a tad if he perceives it as a threat to his family. You know- “my family has got to eat” garbage.
propheteer - December 10, 2009
What are they going to threat him with?
They going to trade him to the Raiders?
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Would you put it past Al Davis to make that trade?
Especially when Hendry sells Milton as a tight end who can stretch the field.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
MB isn't fast enough for Al Davis.
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
We will just show him his range factor and Al Davis will have a press conference...
using an overhead projector, C’mon Al get in the 21st Century will ya, showing how Milton Bradley will improve JaMarcus’s throwing ability and then he’ll insult Lane Kiffen for an hour. It will be great Television.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Lane coaches for the Volunteers now...
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
Yes I know.
But Al will still do it.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Ah, I see, well
given it’s Al Davis, what you said makes complete sense.
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
Someday, when Al is no longer with us
will they be wheeling him around like Bernie from “Weekend at Bernies”?
LT - December 10, 2009
have you seen him?
Are you sure they aren’t doing that now?!?
The man has not aged well
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
you're right
I guess it is more like “Weekend at Bernies 2”
LT - December 10, 2009
Gee, Al. Just Like Rodney Dangerfield.
“No respect, I tell ’ya. I get no respect at all…”
Zeke - December 10, 2009
And yet..
There is a call for us to keep him, why? If he is so damn toxic and so easily to be replaced on the cheap, why not just take it like a man, admitt your mistake, cut your loses and move on?
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
BLou is 100% right
Why would ANY GM take MB unless the cost to his team is next to nothing. Having a bad contract that you want to get rid of is one thing but swallowing 2 years of a bad contract for an underperforming, time-tested bad apple is quite another. Having to pay a Luis Castillo or a Pat Burrel 12M for one year is certainly a better option than having this ahole on your team for 2 years.
plenz - December 10, 2009
Right.
Just do it already.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
You really thinks Ricketts is not involved ?
You think he is going to tell Hendry, go ahead eat 21 million ?
Doggie Stalker - December 10, 2009
Sure
21 million donuts!
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Hendry is having a worse off season this year
than he did last year. I didn’t think that was possible.
SonnyJ9 - December 10, 2009
Let's hope it's his last
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
too soon to make that call
digitalbenjamin - December 10, 2009
I disagree
If Hendry had done ‘nothing’ last year he wouldn’t be in this predictament this year.
JFCubFan - December 10, 2009
My point is you can't say he's having a worse off-season this year than last year...
when this off-season isn’t over yet. That’s all.
digitalbenjamin - December 10, 2009
maybe not, but you have to admit that if they can't get rid of Bradley
today, if this drags on and on and on, then it’s shaping up to be a pretty poor offseason
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
I certainly don't think we're there yet.
Last year:
1. Traded Mark DeRosa for 3 minor league relief pitchers.
2. Signed Aaron Miles (2 years, $5M)
3. Traded Felix Pie for G. Olson.
4. Traded G. Olson and R. Cedeno for A. Heilman.
5. Signed Milton Bradley (3 years, $30M)
6. Declined to offer arbitration to Kerry Wood
7. Traded J. Ceda for K. Gregg
8. Signed Joey Gathright (1 year, $1M)
That’s just a whole lot of bad baseball GMing. It increased the payroll for 2009 and beyond, and substantially weakened the team in 2009. It’s the equivalent of that one guy in your roto league who isn’t really sure how the rules works and takes a kicker in the third round.
Everything Hendry has done so far this offseason has been a hangover from that binge of horrific decisions last year. (i.e., Fox, Miles, and $1.7M for minor league relief pitchers, decline to offer arb to Rich Harden). If last year was only half as horrific, we could still have Rich Harden, and wouldn’t be held hostage by the Bradley situation.
D98 - December 10, 2009
Yuck.
It looks even worse written down than just playing it out in my head.
fsuapollo - December 10, 2009
A lot of those are a reach.
Did you really watch Kerry Wood pitch in 2009 and wish the Cubs had paid him $10M to stay? Because that’s what he would have gotten in arbitration.
Jose Ceda didn’t even throw a pitch in 2009.
Mark Derosa had a terrible year, and only worth a win and a half. So far the Cubs look like the winner in that trade.
Gathright only cost us $500,000 when it was all said and done, which really isn’t a fireable offense. And you can make a case for the Pie-for-Gregg trade, though flipping Gregg for Heilman looks pretty awful in retrospect.
Wreckard - December 10, 2009
I definitely would have offered Kerry Wood arbitration.
He was phenomenal in 2008, and was a team leader to boot. If the injury risk was the prime motivator, then the arb system was tailor-made for the situation, as we’d wind up with Wood on a 1 year deal, or we would have wound up with CLE’s first rounder.
I don’t think that Woody would have gotten $10M in arbitration. I also don’t think that they ever would have gotten in front of an arbitrator. But isn’t $10M the all-time arb record, by Ryan Howard?
D98 - December 10, 2009
No, that's the all time record for a player in his first year of arbitration eligibility
If the Cubs had unlimited budget, sure, offering him arb and having him accept and risk him getting as much as $10M wouldn’t have been bad. But given the budget constraints, a high-priced closer wasn’t a luxury the Cubs could afford last year.
And as bad as Gregg was, he wasn’t that much worse than Wood in 2009.
The only reason to wring hands about losing Kerry Wood is sentimentality.
Wreckard - December 10, 2009
Thinking out of the box
Soriano just came over for between $6.5M and $8M, depending on figures, and Burrell is owed $12M. Bradley is owed $21M I believe?
Why not trade Bradley and some low cost reliever that the Braves would be interested in that could be a Soriano caliber, for Burrell and Soriano? Cost matches up pretty closely, and we could potentially make up for the talent they shipped to Atlanta for Soriano while giving them relief help they want/need?
jballgame - December 10, 2009
Soriano is a decent closer
I am not sure what we could send to a team looking to compete that would meet their closer needs.
Marmol would be the only possible match, and there is just no way the Cubs dump Marmol simply to get a team to take on Bradley.
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
Rays didn't ship any real talent in that trade
They shipped their salary dump acquisition for the Braves salary dump candidate, and from what i’ve read the Rays are ready to start the season with a payroll in the $70 million range, which is big because the Rays complained about losing money all last year at $63 mil.
CubFanRaysaddict - December 10, 2009
From a Cards prospect site
link
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
That profile was written before the 2008 season.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Oh,
I misread it as before 2009
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
Twitter tweet
cubsff Andre Dawson is a Hall-of-Famer http://bit.ly/5CXsfo #chicago #cubs
eths - December 10, 2009
Hit wrong button by mistake
I hope the above finally comes true
eths - December 10, 2009
Favorite line from this article
“That is so bizarre. Life is more than OPS and WHIP and VORP and Range Factor. There’s the human factor.”
This guy must have quit the SABR community ten years ago.
CubFanRaysaddict - December 10, 2009
Mike Parisi is a CUB!!!!!
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
Via the Rule 5 draft.
Tweet from Paul Sullivan:
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Let's hope they keep it and it's not a swap deal for cash with another team.
Don’t need years of faulty memories on this deal.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
Let's hope he's not another David Patton.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Just what I was going to say
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
who cares
Parisi sucks
jballgame - December 10, 2009
Thanks for your cogent analysis.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
0-4 with an 8.22 and a WHIP over 2? Granted-small sample size, but that doesn’t exactly light my fire
jballgame - December 10, 2009
No, I agree with you...
… you could have posted that instead of just saying he sucks, though.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
fair……..
jballgame - December 10, 2009
To clarify...
… the numbers above were posted in 12 major league appearances Parisi made for St. Louis in 2008. His minor league numbers are better… but not much.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Someone has to carry the pink backpack.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Unfortunately.........
Minor league stats don’t translate necessarily……….we will find out in Spring Training-if he’s invited………
jballgame - December 10, 2009
If he's not invited, why pick him?
They have to offer him back at 1/2 the cost if he doesn’t make the roster.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Someone.......
mentioned a swap for cash
jballgame - December 10, 2009
It was sarcasm
Because of all the revisionist history that goes on here about Josh Hamilton
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
What's the difference between revisionist history
And denial?
Besides denial being a river of course.
BucknerKongCardenal - December 10, 2009
He has to be invited.
IIRC, rule 5 guys go on the 40-man roster right away. All on the 40-man come to ST. Then, they have to keep him on the 25-man or offer him back at half the cost.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
I know that
It was a rhetorical question in response to jballgame
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Oh.
You sure we can’t swap Parisi for cash? Maybe the Rays would take him along with Bradley!
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
No worries.
Good luck with that trade, though.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Better Patton and not HE WHO ONLY THE
REDS wanted. With Patton, the debate is only on fact and whether he sucks. With the other, people dispute the facts which chafes my patience.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
WHY, OH WHY!!!!!
Do we really need another underachieving pitcher that made it to the Big League eating up a roster spot all year, all the while he pitches once every two months.
Hey Hendry, take me as a rule 5 pick will ya. I would love to travel around with the Cubs all summer, not really do anything and get paid for it. I can do the same thing as those rule 5 picks. Give me the pink backpack and I’ll deliver papers to the rest of the team in the morning.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
And this is... ...good? ...bad? ...mediocre?
eths - December 10, 2009
All of those?
Until Parisi throws in Spring Training, who knows how things will shake out. As long as he doesn’t handicap the roster like David Patton, things will be ok.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
Not sure
But a AAA pitcher who had seen MLB action on a team with one of the weakest farm sytems in baseball…
My hopes aren’t too high.
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
My GM went to the Indianapolis Winter Meetings
And all I got was this lousy Mike Parisi
T-shirts coming soon.
He’ll get a chance in spring, let’s hope he makes the best of it.
BucknerKongCardenal - December 10, 2009
Beautiful
I’d buy it.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
They could charge $4 each.
Maybe that could pay for getting rid of Bradley’s deal.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Make it the 2010 BCB shirt!
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
LOL
All proceeds to the Rays for taking Milton Bradley!
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
All it took was a 100 threads
But we have finally found a plan someone call Hendry.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
You might want to use UPS
this time instead of USPS….
LT - December 10, 2009
They can sell them in the Rays gift shop.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Very fitting that would be
Gift = Poison in German…
eths - December 10, 2009
Question. With the difficulty in moving Bradley, which is the better
move. Eating the contract or taking the risk on Rowand if 1 for 1?
I’m leaning on the risk for Rowand. Fill the need now and gamble on three years from now.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
Where do you hear about anything to do with Rowand?
I’d do that, if the Giants would.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
That was speculation earlier in the offseason with SF looking
to save money and offload Rowand. Many were against the additional dollar risk.
Disclaimer: This is not intended to start a new rumor or be tweeted by daver in an effort to increase his following.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
Didn't the Giants explicitly reject this proposal?
I don’t know if it ever got beyond speculation, but I seem to remember Sabean commenting that he wanted nothing to do with Bradley.
D98 - December 10, 2009
That's what I recall.
aldimond - December 10, 2009
Guzman
might fit well……….cheap, good arm, could be a closer
jballgame - December 10, 2009
Thoughts?
Guzman + Bradley for Soriano + Burrell?
jballgame - December 10, 2009
If we can't do Bradley for Burrell
Why would Tampa throw in Soriano, who they know can close, for Guzman?
BucknerKongCardenal - December 10, 2009
Fair point
But keep in mind the Rays are trying to dump salary…….this would free up money in ‘10, but would cost them in ’11. Net neutral (roughly), especially if we agreed to eat a couple million of Bradley’s salary in ’11.
Also, Rays have Isringhausen and Howell, who can close for them……..so perhaps it’s just a young reliever who can develop into a closer shortly. Doesn’t have to be Guzman.
jballgame - December 10, 2009
Well if the Rays are trying to dump salary
Just have them throw in Crawford :)
Rays have Izzy and Howell….I think this is why they want Soriano.
To echo elgato below, this isn’t happening.
BucknerKongCardenal - December 10, 2009
If Isringhausen could still close
He’d still be with St. Louis
Musicdude10 - December 10, 2009
Tampa
wanted Soriano, why would they turn and trade him for less value.
Cubsfan Waveland - December 10, 2009
I would be fine with trading Guzman
He’s a worse injury risk than Harden or Wood ever was.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
won't happen
elgato - December 10, 2009
That's called Sign and Trade
Baseball doesn’t do Sign and Trade. I’ve never scene one.
RiskyBusiness - December 10, 2009
What's called sign and trade?
The Rays just acquired Soriano from the Braves in a trade. They signed Burrell a year ago.
cubzfan - December 10, 2009
Sorry - Thought the Rays signed him as FA
Then Trade Away.
But the Rays won’t do it. Rafael Soriano is a much better pitcher than Guzman.
RiskyBusiness - December 10, 2009
don't see the Rays doing that
they are adding Soriano to shore up their pen. Guzman isn’t at Soriano’s level – I imagine Soriano could be closing for them.
toonsterwu - December 10, 2009
As I said yesterday get on the phone with the Braves
and get a 3 way trade with the Rays. Lowe coming our way, yes it commits us to money in 2012 but we got 2 1/2 years to come up with a marketing plan to cover that cost or something. D Lowe is a solid 3 or 4 at this point in his career and is an innnings eater. Get something done already Jim!
Cubsfan Waveland - December 10, 2009
Why?
That still doesn’t solve the Burrell problem for the Rays, as they most likely can’t take on Bradley unless Burrell leaves in the process.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
Burrell would be going to the Braves
I thought that was understood in my post or why would you do a 3 way trade.
Cubsfan Waveland - December 10, 2009
Why would the Braves...
…want Burrell?
That’s a pitchers ballpark and not the right environment for Burrells skills. The dude also can’t field, and that is a big outfield for someone to roam.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
Well,
They really could use some offense, and I do think that Burrell will bounce back a bit. If they could stick Matt Diaz out there in left, they could tolerate Burrell. Still doesn’t seem like they’re kind of guy though. But hey, if the Bradley deal falls through, they can always try a Soriano – Burrell swap.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
Don't know which Soriano you're referring to
but the Rafael version is already a Ray, heading to Tampa for Jesse Chavez.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
That didn't take long...
It’s beautiful when a GM does his homework, and then moves decisively to execute.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
Wish we had a good one.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
And when Atlanta will take a mediocre reliever
for someone of Soriano’s caliber. Maybe Hendry should be calling Atlanta, given how this trade went.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
Salary Dump
Soriano accepted arbitration when Atlanta didn’t want him.
rlpete - December 10, 2009
I know. But still.
Jesse Chavez will shuttle between Atlanta and Gwinett, more than likely. Atlanta could have gotten something better than that for Soriano, I think.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
Possibly to probably, but
the Atlanta GM now knows he doesn’t have the “problem” of Soriano’s salary around. So he took a trade to ensure getting rid of Soriano.
The Braves gambled that Soriano would decline arbitration and that someone would sign him so they would get picks. When he accepted, it threw their budget plan for a loop… so they just wanted him out.
fsuapollo - December 10, 2009
Agreed.
But they’ve basically gotten rid of Church and Soriano for Jesse Chavez. I think they could have held out a little longer and gotten a better deal.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
I don't necessarily doubt that.
But perhaps they just didn’t want to risk getting stuck.
On the other hand, Hendry dramatically overestimated what he might be able to do with MB… and now that situation is only worsening.
fsuapollo - December 10, 2009
It is interesting.
Two different strategies, it appears. Wren wasn’t willing to wait, and Hendry clearly is.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
The Braves GM said
last night in an interview on MLB they were looking to move a pitcher preferably Lowe for a bat. The move would save the Braves 6 million this year and 15 million next year and another 15 million the following year. If they put just a little of that money towards the Rays maybe the deal gets done like 2 million for 2011 and then maybe they throw the Cubs 2 or 3 million in 2012.
Cubsfan Waveland - December 10, 2009
Lowell to Texas for catcher Max Ramirez
LINK
Sckrambo - December 10, 2009
Look at Lowell's mug shot on that page.
HA! He looks pretty depressed going from Boston to Texas, eh?
digitalbenjamin - December 10, 2009
Found via a Twitter tweet (sorry if old)
eths - December 10, 2009
I think that is between Chicago & South Bend
Cubsfan Waveland - December 10, 2009
Portage I think.
china423 - December 10, 2009
Yep.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
There used to be one in Mishawaka
which is the sister city with South Bend, but that one looks like the one either on the toll road, or on the highway near Elkhart.
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
Mishawaka is a cool town
Small, but cool
Musicdude10 - December 10, 2009
Had one in Elkhart, too
davidalanu - December 10, 2009
You had Mishawaka in Elkhart?
Where did you keep it?
Next you’ll be tell us you had a Michiana too…
Zeke - December 10, 2009
No, but I had an Osceola once. Can't talk about it.
davidalanu - December 10, 2009
Sounds painful.
Almost as bad as an Otsego…
Zeke - December 11, 2009
Elkhart?
Road America!
digitalbenjamin - December 10, 2009
I wish Ricketts and Hendry had to see that on their way to work everyday.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
How much does a billboard cost up there?
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
Saw Hendry on Tuesday
He was in the TRADE SHOW. I was furious. My friend actually elbowed him accidentally. The 2nd time I saw him he was on his phone though. I want to shout obscenities about the Aaron Miles and numerous other dumb signings, but didn’t :(
MJMars - December 10, 2009
Good morning, fellow procrastinators.
Just saw that the Red Sox have traded for Boof Bonser. Twins get PTBNL.
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
Man...
The Yankees swoop in and steal Curtis Granderson. The Red Sox move quickly to dump Mike Lowell, and get good return back. It amazes me sometimes to watch the better GMs work. Hendry really is bringing checkers to a chess match.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
You might overestimating him alittle
more like tic-tac-toe or even tiddle-winks
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
And he's short a couple of checkers too. It's not a complete set
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
For the first time ever, I hate agreeing with you.
This has been a very disappointing week for ol’ Jimbo.
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
two years, not week. Two years of poor decisions, and bad moves
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
BoSox ate money
The difference is that Epstein ate about 3/4 of Lowell’s salary. The Cubs seem deluded into thinking that someone will make the same mistake this offseason that they made last year – i.e. to pay Bradley.
I am not a Hendry basher, but I really do fear this becoming a Sosa 04-05 repeat, which, (I am putting my tinfoil cap on now) I fear could lead to the 2010 Cubs = 2005 Cubs.
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
Yes and No
Red Sox will pick up $7 or $8 million likely for Lowell next year.
If the Cubs take the rumored TB deal, they would have to pay Burrell his $9 million plus kick in another $10 or so million to cover the final year of Bradley’s deal. That is a lot of money to pay against the 2010 cap.
rlpete - December 10, 2009
"The 2010 cap"?
What “cap”? There’s no salary cap in baseball.
Just do it already.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Hendry has a cap that he can spend
Whatever the amount is, taking nearly $20 million off it and still with no CF’er. Not too promising for 2010.
rlpete - December 10, 2009
They have to pay SOMEONE that $9m.
It’s due to Bradley OR Burrell, or someone else if they trade Bradley for someone else.
It’s the $12m for 2011 that’s the issue.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Yes but don't the Cubs have to send that money with Bradley now?
It is the question of deferred money. Can the Cubs tell Tampa that a check is in the mail next December?
rlpete - December 10, 2009
Don't know how that works.
But maybe they can figure out a way to defer that money. That’d be the best solution.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
I don't know why they would.
Players get regular paychecks. I can’t think of a viable reason the Cubs would have to up front the salary that would be owed.
If they agreed to pay part/all of Bradley’s 2011 salary, I assume MB would simply remain on the Cubs’ payroll and would receive a check from the Cubs.
I don’t think Tom Hicks had to write a check to the Yankees for $100M (or whatever amount he agreed to pay) when he sent ARod to the Yankees.
fsuapollo - December 10, 2009
Maybe they could figure out a way to defer some of the salary.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Certainly a possibility...
though IMO less likely with a small budget team like Tampa. It is harder for them to be “on the hook” for that money short-term, even if they’re getting it all back in the long run.
fsuapollo - December 10, 2009
I think you're looking at it the wrong way.
Tampa isn’t on the hook at all. If the Cubs agreed to pay all the 2011 salary, but got Milton to take it (for example) in three installments of $4m each instead of $12m at once, Milton still gets all his money (probably with interest), and Tampa still pays nothing.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Gotcha.
I thought you meant deferring the money through Tampa instead of directly through Milton.
But somehow I don’t see MB being willing to wait for his $. After all, he can barely wait 9 innings to leave work.
fsuapollo - December 10, 2009
True enough.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Nor should he agree
Both sides signed the contract. Unless the Cubs are willing to add $, no reason MB should agree to deferred payments.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Deferred with interest?
Maybe he’d do it.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
It'd have to be above and beyond interest rates.
Otherwise there is no upside for him. Then that backloads things even more, which I suppose Hendry would salivate over.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
I get that...
I don’t have a problem with eating cash, or trading prospects, for that matter. It’s the decisiveness that I appreciate. These guys aren’t sitting around hemming and hawwing, dabbling at the margins, hoping for the best. They’re making moves, and getting things done. And certainly not letting guys who aren’t part of their plan hold their respective clubs up.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
Hendry can be decisive
Look at the Soriano and Bradley deals :-)
The problem here is Hendry can’t do anything until Bradley is resolved. For example, if he has to move Bradley for Burrell and kick in $10 million then you can forget Cameron. Hendry has no idea how much money he is going to have to work with.
Or if he has to keep Bradley then Granderson and Cameron are extra.
rlpete - December 10, 2009
How is Hendry being held up, exactly?
It’s possible such a thing is happening, but Hendry has denied it is happening. If Mike Cameron is the plan, Mike Cameron is still out there. We can’t judge how Hendry’s Bradley strategy has or hasn’t worked until the deal is done.
Our impatience waiting for news reminds me of the impatience we saw at the beginning of the second Iraq war – not being political – just it takes time to move tanks and just because there’s a sand storm doesn’t mean we’re bogged down.
DGU - December 10, 2009
This is getting old and I'm not patient
I’m thinking if something doesn’t happen soon, it’s going to drag on for weeks. My feeling is the other GM’s are playing Hendry because they know he has to deal and they don’t. This is giving me a bad feeling that our stubborn GM thinks he can make a better deal when one does not exist. If he wants Bradley gone soon, he’s going to have to bend over and give anybody that will listen, what they want as far as cash for the big dump. If this doesn’t happen I’m thinking we’ll lose out on everyone on our wish list. I’m just getting a bad vibe from all this non-action.
mrcubsfan - December 10, 2009
Yay! Photo time!
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
My bad, that photo was an answer to WGNstatic.
Sorry.
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
Reply fail is an
eths - December 10, 2009
Royals just cut Mike Jacobs
obviously he’s not a starter, but he could be a real nice power bat off the bench, and a nice backup to Lee
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
Ugh.
Jacobs is awful. I’d rather have Burrell.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Mike "Feast or Famine" Jacobs
He is like Adam Dunn Light. Have the homeruns with all the strike outs.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Half the Homeruns
post failure
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Less filling. Tastes GREAT!
Zeke - December 10, 2009
You got your Chocolate in my Peanut Butter
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
I'm officer Reeses, what happened here?
Musicdude10 - December 10, 2009
I was wondering if you have any pieces?
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
and a quarter of the price tag
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
adam dunn
without the walks = not a good baseball player
DartmouthCubsFan - December 10, 2009
the Rays don't seem particularly interested in making that possible
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
NO!!!
What he is is really a DH, and not a good one. He’s got no business in the NL.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
as opposed to Micah Hoffpauir?
He’s an upgrade over what we currently have, even if its a small one
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
Actually,
not really. Jacobs really plays like a first baseman only, and Hoffpauir is at least usable in the outfield. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that he can work as a PH extraordinaire, so where are you really with the guy?
He really needs to find a place where he can DH a bit.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
Completely agree
If the Royals sour on a relatively cheap player, what does that tell you? Oh, wait . . . I guess that DOES make him a fit for a Jim Hendry team . . . .
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Most people thought Hoffpauir wouldn't be able to play OF
Why can’t Jacobs at least give it a shot?
Poloplaya14 - December 10, 2009
Hoffpauir CAN'T play outfield.
Jacobs would be worse.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Milton Bradley
The beginning of the end for Jim Hendry?
I can’t believe anybody thought any differently. All these rumors of interest, the reports of some teams thinking he would be a good fit always were a pile of crap. Rosenthal likely made up his story. Between the teams that already had Bradley plus the teams that won’t touch him, there aren’t many left that need him.
rlpete - December 10, 2009
Rosenthal doesn't make stories up.
That is all.
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
no but he could have been misled
maybe by Cubs officials in order to make it look as though there was more interest than there actually was
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
No doubt about that.
I bet he won’t use that source ever again.
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
OK, highly exaggerate
In today’s 24 hour news cycle with so many outlets, there is a bigger push for new stories. Look at all this Twitter stuff. What was the trade that someone reported moved from 30 to 40% likely or whatever the percentages were. How can someone measure that? I do think reporters do elaborate more and report on rumors a lot.
rlpete - December 10, 2009
Chunchi Dragons may take him...
He can the New “Mr. Baseball”.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
I'm going to hold firm in the notion..
that there was good interest for Bradley, if only the tire kickers, and those thinking that the Cubs might eat big money. I’ve always said that at 2/14, even I’d take Bradley. However, once word got out on a limit to the money that the Cubs would eat, that may have been the end of that.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
What do you work for REA or something?
Now is a good time to by Milton Bradley, with interest in him at an all time high, you too can own a pro ball player. But only Hendry can help pick the right one.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
The revisionist history on how people felt about Bradley is getting rather extreme here.
I did a last minue post when the Bradley signing was being leaked out, urging Hendry to go with Randy Winn (er, bad idea) instead of Hendry last year. I included a poll. 11% were ecstatic about Bradley. 37% were “coming to terms with Bradley.” Only 6% said they’d “take anything over Bradley.” So, unless you were part of the 6%…
DGU - December 10, 2009
I didn't vote
but "coming to terms with Bradley." isn’t a ringing endorsement. Maybe they never got to those terms.
RiskyBusiness - December 10, 2009
Rays selected Miguel Sierra from the Cubs in the Triple-A phase of the Rule 5 draft.
Sierra’s minor league stats
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
And Robby Chirinos dodges a bullet...
Zeke - December 10, 2009
Cubs made no other picks and lost no other players.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Damn it...
I was hoping someone would have selected Milton Bradley, well maybe next year.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Doesn't appear.......
to be a big loss. Not sure what the Rays saw, other than the guy gives up less than a homer a game, but gets hit hard. Perhaps some control/pitch placement opportunity to improve?
Also, still trying to figure out why the Cubs grabbed Parisi……any thoughts?
jballgame - December 10, 2009
because Jim Hendry is our GM, and "planning" isn't his strong suit
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
My only arguement all along
with trading for Burrell straight up for Bradley and cash is the Cubs are once again in the situation of having to trade another player they don’t want/need. I would prefer to see us give up a prospect or a little more cash to get a player that could actually help us.
Cubsfan Waveland - December 10, 2009
Except
unless you are talking Bradley and $15 million and prospects, no one wants him. And even in that case, you may not get that much in return.
I don’t think there is any team that thinks they can fix Bradley. Tampa is the only one willing if the Cubs take someone they don’t want in Burrell plus throw in a bunch of money.
rlpete - December 10, 2009
I personally think we need
1 more starter, so I have suggested finding another team along with Tampa to get us a starter and offload Bradley.
Cubsfan Waveland - December 10, 2009
Suggesting and finding are different
There isn’t much interest in Burrell either.
rlpete - December 10, 2009
Which would
support my first post about not taking just Burrell back, we find ourself in another bad spot. Not that I want to keep waiting but I would rather wait this out than to make a bad move just to rid ourselves of Bradley. But I do understand we are not getting anything great for Bradley.
Cubsfan Waveland - December 10, 2009
Whoever we get will be easier to flip than Bradley and his baggage
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
Al, I was thinking about the picture that you put on this posting
Maybe if we could get the other Samuel Beckett to leap into Jim Hendry in November, 2008, the problems will be fixed. Hell, last season might even be better.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
What does Captain Archer/Chuck's dad have to do with anything?
lswaidz - December 10, 2009
Archer wouldn't put up with MB's crap
Neither would Kirk or Piccard . . .
Hey, maybe we can just get Al Calavicci to kick MB’s ass until he behaves.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
I would love to see a Piccard-esque rant
from First Contact directed at MB. “THIS FAR, NO FARTHER…THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE!”
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
I ♥ 'd Voyager....
that was my favorite Star Trak
cooliogirl47 - December 10, 2009
It was OK but it seemed like Gilligan's Island in Space
If they found a way home you knew the show would be over.
Plus Neelix was a terrible character.
I do miss 7 of 9…..
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
So does Jack Ryan . . .
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
THAT was a good one!
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
You ♥ "♥'s"!
TNG my favorite – but that’s when I started watching. Too young for first run original ST
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
It was the best since since the first one.
Still thought the Troi story lines were pretty week.
But she was hot.
The Ferengi sucked. The Borg were cool….
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
didn’t like Number One too much or the Dr. lady, but the Holo-Deck rocked.
cooliogirl47 - December 10, 2009
3 oops ♥
I liked seeing how all the technology evolved
cooliogirl47 - December 10, 2009
It was a pretty cool.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
3 oops ♥?
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
I forgot the Alt
cooliogirl47 - December 10, 2009
No, it looked fine
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Carrie Muskat tweet.
Linky
Oh, well. You know the old saying? “A watched pot never boils”? Maybe I should get up from the computer for a while.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Jim Hendry ladies and gentlemen. And people still think he deserves to keep his job?
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
So is Opening Day tomorrow?
A deal can still get done.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
I agree, but
it’s slightly disappointing.
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
I'd say more than slightly
Especially after we were led to believe a deal was so close a couple of days ago.
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 10, 2009
yes, but despite your defending Hendry even when he doesn't deserve it..
you know as well as a I do the longer it takes to get done, the likelihood worse the deal will be, and the less chance that we get much better heading into next season. Hendry isn’t a genius, he’s not going to pull out a great deal from his hat. Any deal he makes next month will be the same one or worse than what he could have made this week, and meanwhile, guys who could have helped this club will have been snapped up by others.
This trip was a failure. Much like the rest of Hendry’s career
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
Woah there turbo.
There is no evidence that time is directly proportional to the crappiness of a deal here. If anything, we should all be thrilled he held out and didn’t accept any of the insulting deals we’ve seen rumored. Trading one problem for another is just spinning your wheels in the mud, and i’m personally GLAD he didn’t go in that direction. He’s had a history of turning lemons in to lemonade on a couple of situations like this (although not as big, obviously). Give him a chance.
Hendry isn’t a genius, but he’s a decent GM who took our team to the playoffs as division champions for two consecutive years very recently… when was the last time that was done?
You are jumping to a lot of conclusions here for it only being early December.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Why would the situation change from now to opening day
do we think some GM is going to wake up on morning and suddenly have a desire to MB. If the rest of our offseason moves are indeed tied to first moving MB then we are in trouble.
DC Cubbie - December 10, 2009
If I am Ricketts I tell him "I gave you a chance to fix YOUR mistakes that I am going to have to spend MY money on." You have failed and now you are fired!
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
is that an option
in your fantasy league?
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
That makes no sense. Shouldn't you be celebrating the fact that your hero is still on the team.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
what makes no sense
is firing your GM who made the trades and signings that helped take your team to the post season two years running for the first time in a century because he doesn’t make a particular trade in a three-day set of meetings.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
no he gets fired because he's piled up bad contracts on top of bad contracts
over the last few years. This is simply the icing on the cake
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
uh-huh
contracts which helped take this team to the post season twice in two years for the first time in a century.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Not last year and we sure don't seem to be getting any better
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
and that
was TOTALLY Hendry’s fault. He has strings attached to all the players, and makes them walk and move and swing the bat. Every time he pulls a certain way, Soriano hops.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
HE BROUGHT THEM HERE. Do you not see this?????
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
yes, he brought them here.
and they proceeded to win the Division two years running WHICH HASN’T HAPPENED FOR A CENTURY. Do you not see this??
The Royals would love to have Jim Hendry be their GM. The Orioles. Teams that haven’t seen the post season in years.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
They can have him
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
nose
face.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
With the amount of money that he's spent...
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Exactly
Even the Royals could contend if they had Jim Hendry and the huge amount of cash the Cubs backed him with.
dr stabbingworth - December 10, 2009
I'd love...
…to see what Hendry would do with the Royals payroll and most importantly, with his long track record of not developing players from the farm.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
What a mess that would be.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
We both know that winning a division doesn't mean what it used to.
D98 - December 10, 2009
it means exactly what it used to — going to the post season. Something that happened rarely between 1910 and 2000.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
No, it doesn't.
8/30 teams make the post season (26.66%)
From 1910-1960, 2/16 teams made the post season (12.5%)
1961: 2/18
1962-1968: 2/20
1969-1976: 4/24
1977-1992: 4/26
1993-1997: 4/28
It’s an accomplishment to do it today, but it isn’t the same.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
We want more than division titles
We want a World Series. His administration to this point is judged as a failure because all the money spent has not even delivered the first NL pennant since 1945. This franchise has not won a playoff game since 2003 and we are watching this window shut. I’m not trying to be a total pessimist like BLou, but the Cubs need to do something to try to get back to the playoffs in 2010.
Ace Venom - December 10, 2009
Yes God Damnit!
The freaking Marlins have two WS in the last 15 years.
Mapmaker - December 10, 2009
oh for pete's sake
it’s like debating a brick wall. I’m done
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
ironic comment
is ironic.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Inane Comment
is inane
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
yes
I could have used that too.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
you're slowly evolving into a snarky happier BLou.
just sayin’
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
well,
that’s an opinion.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
*** Paradox alert *** Paradox alert *** Paradox alert ***
eths - December 10, 2009 via mobile
I think last season broke Drew.
And thinking back to how much hope he held out for the team last year, until the very, utter, literal bitter end, it’s totally understandable.
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
I'm right here, I can hear you. :P
I’m not broken. I just think that the way the attention is focused now is wrong.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
There you are!
Didn’t even see you! You may not be broken, but you do read like someone who, over the course of last season and up to now, is not as happy with things, and for good reason.
Also, why even respond to TJ11 (TJ Lavin?) when he’s just trolling you?
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
because I don't like to see
falshoods promoted.
The funny thing is, I was resigned to the season ending the way it did once we were mathematically eliminated. What I was really unprepared for was the way this site reacted to it.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Cub fans who care enough to spend time on the computer talking about it were supposed to be happy?
OK-I will enter your world.
Everything will be fine!
Lou and Jim will turn it around!
Bradley will come back and grow up and lead the Cubs to victory!
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
...
did I say that? I’m pretty sure I didn’t say that.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Its just a vibe I get from you
You have been pretty quick to defend these people
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
that's funny
because you’re trigger happy to condemn them.
2009, as a season, stunk on ice. Expectations were through the roof, and it just didn’t gel. But you cannot blame that on one guy — or even three guys. And when you have a record, the way Bradley, Piniella and Hendry all do, you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water when there’s a hiccup.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Did Bradley have a good track record?
Why did his previous teams get rid of him so quick?
Why didn’t anyone else offer him 3 years?
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
Yes, Bradley has a fairly good track record, with last year (2008) being an excellent year for him.
I don’t know why he didn’t get longer offers. I would have been fine with a two year contract for him. I believe that some of his incentives were set too low to achieve that third year.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Behaviorwise?
If he is such a good hitter, wouldn’t teams want him to stay?
What would cause teams to get rid of such a productive player?
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
sigh. Cost, change in management philosophy, issues with the player, injuries, issues with the manager, any number of things. I realize you want to say “BECAUSE BRADLEY EATS BABIES” or something like that, but whatever.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
How many excuses can you come up with?
Keep going its hilarious!
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
reasons =/= excuses.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Whatever you want to call it
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
Montreal = cost?
Cleveland = issues with manager
LA = injuries, issues with player
OAK = cost, injuries
SD = cost, injuries, issues with manager, player
TX = cost, issues with player
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Nice
That’s what I was thinking.
Good job breaking it down.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
SWL, please bookmark this.
We’ll need to quote drew in the future:
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
I don't want to get into a Hendry argument
but it can be argued that any half competent GM should have gotten this team to the post-season with the money he has been given.
One of my biggest complaints about Hendry is the apparent lack of a long-term plan. Did he just ignore what all these deferred contracts would do to flexibility because he was convinced the Cubs were winning it all in 2009?
rlpete - December 10, 2009
I blame part of that
on Tribco’s desire to have revenue, but not care about future expenses because they knew they were going to sell.
And yes, part of it is that Hendry likes to make long-term trades that are backloaded.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
GMs are judged by the players and managers they bring in.
He is not doing well
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
GMs are judged
by the number of post-season appearances their team has. And by that standard, Jim Hendry is better than any other GM the Cubs have had in 100 years.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
And because of the loaded contracts we are screwed for years to come.
Bradley’s deal was a horrible mistake. Everybody but you and Jim knew and said this at the time.
He had a bad track record. WHY would you take a chance with 30 million on him?
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
See DGU’s post about his poll. Everybody did not know and say that Bradley’s deal was a horrible mistake.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
one poll about Milton Bradley posted right before his signing was announced is valid data?
THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED!
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
My poll was absolutely unscientific
and only 133 people voted. I’d love to see the results from one of Al’s front page polls if he has them.
No, the point is that there’s a lot of 20/20 hindsight GMing going on here. In my case, back then, I advocated for getting MB because on paper he was the best fit – capable defender, a switch-hitter, but with RHP splits to help balance the loss of DeRosa, and more OBP with a lot of SLG potential when healthy.
But I also had second thoughts at the last minute – which was the motivation for shifting to advocating a trade for Randy Winn – a move that would have been nearly as bad as Bradley’s signing.
My memory isn’t “scientific” either, but the only poster I remember being consistently against MB was dtpolitt.
DGU - December 10, 2009
You're misremembering. ALOT of people were not happy with the Bradley signing.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Alot?
That’s very scientific as well. Maybe I need to learn that science.
The point is a lot still does not equate to
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
There is no question that not everybody was happy.
But if you wish to pretend that the level of hatred now is equal to how people felt at the time, have fun with that.
We both know there were many people who were OK with it at the time, and are now upset and probably pounding the “fire Jim, he sucks, we all knew Bradly was a bum” drum over and over.
This is the internet, after all. You aren’t accountable for what you say here.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
I'm re-reading that post you linked to below.
Fun to read BLou defend Bradley.
Anyway much of the opposition is to Bradley’s injury history. When his hot-headedness came up Al even said “the bigger issue is the injuries.”
Here’s a good quote that got 1 Rec:
Here’s one prescient concern:
Wreckard:
But a lot of people followed Lou in saying the attitude would be a plus. From BLou’s endorsement of the MB signing:
DGU - December 10, 2009
An interesting parallel
What happens if we sign Cameron, and he hits .250? What happens if he accidentally tosses a ball into the stands with only two outs?
Will the casual fans in the stands understand that he’s a 3-4 WAR player? Or will they boo him back to the stone ages because he’s the latest black scapegoat?
dr stabbingworth - December 10, 2009
That was his statement. It doesn’t take science to refute that. So whether poll is scientific is inconsequential. That’s what happens when you operate in hyperbole.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
Take a few minutes and read...
what most people really had to say about it….since you can find a Front Page story where we all weighed in.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Once again
Most. It might be splitting hairs, but apparently changing history seems to be the method of choice and that’s BS. You can’t have a coherent, worthwhile discussion when hyperbole and revisionist history are employed.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
I read through most of it
I saw some people against, some for, some skeptical, some hopeful. That still does not equate to everyone except Jim and Drew knew the deal was bad from the start.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
It was sarcasm people
But now I can count on one hand the people I know who still want him on the team
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
You could, but you would be wrong
I don’t think anyone has said they want him on the team. It’s the fact that we don’t want to just take garbage back for him if it’s possible that issues can be worked out with his teammates.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
There is a least one here who wants him back
It all goes back to Hendry and that was today’s main topic.
He isn’t going to get shit back for him.
But at some point is Bradley’s antics worth it. Even if he has a good season?
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
I might be wrong
but I don’t believe Drew’s point was that he wanted Bradley back, I thought he just didnt want the returns that we are hearing about.
I don’t like to speak for others but I thought that was his argument, could be wrong, sure he can clarify.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
At this point
I want Bradley traded for Bradley’s sake — he’ll never get a fair shake here.
However, I’m not in favor of trading him AND paying for him. If we cannot get equitable return, then we should keep him and play him. He’s a good baseball player.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
There's nothing wrong with looking at this mess
and wishing we could keep Bradley and trade Dome. No one should get flamed for expressing that.
No, it’s not going to happen. The bridges have been nuked. But why get worked up about someone wishing it could?
DGU - December 10, 2009
I think...
…Ricketts is right there with you, because I’d bet he is the main reason Bradley is still here.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
And again, no his antics aren't worth it
I’ve never said that. I’ve repeatedly said if his teammates give the ok, then I don’t see a problem.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
Strangely
BLou even endorsed the addition.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
Only 6% of people at the time
said they’d rather have anyone than Bradley.
Also, nearly all of Hendry’s contracts will be off the books by the time our next round of prospects will be coming into their primes.
DGU - December 10, 2009
That isn't true.
There were MANY here and elsewhere that were fine or even excited about signing Bradley at the time.
You can’t just make shit up.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
He has also...
…had more money to spend to acquire players that brought short term success, and outspending other teams in the division by a long shot. This part of being a GM does not require exceptional talent. On the other hand, developing your own players, and knowing how to put the right pieces of a roster together, does.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
Right
because judging them by wins and post-season berths would totally undercut your irrational argument.
Rather, we all get whipped up about our hatred for MB. Have fun with that.
DGU - December 10, 2009
Long-term backloaded contracts = really, really stupid
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I don't
disagree with that. They are not good.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
So you agree that Hendry LIKES to make bad decisions?
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Ha!
I see what you did there.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
I think we can't really determine...
… if the backloaded contracts were a product of Hendry… or a product of the Trib knowing the more they put off the money, the less came out of their own pocket.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
So your suggesting that Hendry really didn't want to give Soriano a 10 year bloated deal...
and the execs @ Tribco forced him to? LOL.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Pushing someone's
statement into absurdity doesn’t do much for discussion. What he said wasn’t that farfetched.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
So you are suggesting...
… that Sam Zell and his Trib board, with all the other financial shenanigans they had going on, wouldn’t take the time to encourage Jim to do that knowing full well they wouldn’t own the team any more in a short time?
Realistically, we can’t know one way or the other, but it seems plausible to me, which is why i said “we can’t really determine” instead of stating it outright.
You’ll, obviously, take whatever train of thought has the most direct route back to the “screw hendry / bradley” camp, no matter what possibilities, logic, and good sense you have to toss out the window to get there.
It is what it is.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
If this is so, it should be investigated and someone should be charged with something...
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
what's the crime
officer?
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
???
It’s a criminal enterprise to try and bolster the value of the product you are selling? Was Soriano’s deal somehow hidden from prospective buyers, so that when they finally bought the Cubs, they said, “No way – who backloaded Soriano’s deal?!?!”
DGU - December 10, 2009
WHY???
Where do you work, SWL (if you aren’t still a student)? What kind of job do you have where the guys in charge wouldn’t try to do the exact same thing?
Nothing illegal about it. And i’m sure all the new potential owners were fully aware of what had happened when they made the bids.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
He's a bouncer at the strip club.
I’m the cook.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
A customer found a curly hair in their Ruben Sandwich again Dan...
I’d suspend you, but your OBP (OVEN BAKING PRODUCTIVITY) is really high right now and we need that.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Can you fry up calimari rings?
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
or other pub food?
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
as long as it's not pube food
ick.
Emelie - December 10, 2009
LOL
Depending on the pub, you may not have a choice!
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
LOL
Depending on the pub, you may not have a choice!
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
It was
John McDonough who pused to make a big splash and sign Sori to the big deal. He is already doing the same thing with the Hawks, see: Hossa.
It was marketing and the Cubs with Soriano were big news in 2007 and 2008.
tripdenten - December 10, 2009
I think I read somewhere recently
speculation that if Hendry had been left alone, Sori’s deal would have been a year or two shorter. On the other hand, if Hendry had been left alone, we might not have signed Sori, which may not have sold Ted Lilly to come to the Cubs, etc.
DGU - December 10, 2009
Yeah, a 5 year deal
Would look a hell of alot better.
Unique - December 10, 2009
We'll never know...
…but I won’t discount Hendry was pushed to get Soriano, though I think he would have signed him anyway.
My big dispute was with the Hawks comparison above, which is a completely different scenerio with Bowman onboard.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
I agree that Hendry wanted Soriano
there were reports of that for a while and Sori fit the profile of player Hendry was seeking at that time before his valuation of OBP increased. But Hendry also had a history of being willing to be outbid – something a lot of people have connected to McPhail, possibly accurately, possibly not. Hendry was willing to be outbid on KazMat recently and willing to walk away from a PV deal, too. The more you look at Hendry’s career in total, the more the Soriano off-season looks uncharacteristic in its lack of restraint, if still characteristic in the types of players acquired. Not only was Sori the leading man Hendry wanted, but Marquis and DeRoa showed the condidence Hendry had in his scouts – that these undervalued veterans could be key parts in a championship team – which they were.
DGU - December 10, 2009
Your probably right...
…I think Hendry would have given a great offer to Soriano, but it is likely McDonough pushed him to make it real real sweet. McDonough was 100% image focused with the Cubs and this would make sense.
What I would kill to find out, is who made the call on releasing the Sosa parking lot video. I wouldn’t doubt whether McDonough gave an opinion on that one as well. If I was Hendry, I would have been kicking and screaming if someone told me to do that, knowing it would put me in a bind to trade the guy.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
McDonough...
…may have pushed for the Soriano signing, but it is also the GM’s job to give a baseball opinion if he disagrees.
On the Hawks comparison, you have a big difference; the Hawks have who is light years above anything the Cubs have had (since Dallas Green in regards to making smart player decisions; his name is Scotty Bowman, who has 11 Stanley Cup rings.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
Right.
Hendry was supposed to come out in public and say – I think Soriano should have gotten two years less, but my boss made me do this.
DGU - December 10, 2009
Hendry...
…is the kind of guy that would protect his bosses to his own detriment. You have to respect that in the guy.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
I even appreciate Hendry's
defense of Baker, and I was awfully opposed to Baker.
DGU - December 10, 2009
Hendry...
…is a man’s man, his defense of Baker was done being respectful of his history of success.
The Baker era was very frusrating at times, but as I said then, I do believe both he and Hendry were equally to blame for 04 on.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
I wasn't comparing
Hendry to Scotty Bowman. But rather the length of contracts of Soriano and Hossa. Hossa is an outstanding player now and in the short term can help lead the Hawks to a Cup, but what are we going to be saying about him in 8 or 10 years? That signing also showed the NHL the Hawks are serious about winning. I think the Cubs thought that’s what they were doing with Soriano, and the rest is history…
tripdenten - December 10, 2009
True...
…but the difference is in how each team evaluated the true impact in competition each player would make. In this case, I’ll guarantee the Hawks had the braintrust to make a better decision.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
Yea and look what happened to Dale Tallon!
dansram - December 10, 2009
He likes a certain way of offering contracts.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Are you running for office? Nice spin.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Oh come on.
Hendry did a few – not all – backloaded contracts which were almost certainly done at the direction of owners who knew they wouldn’t be around and wanted to up the value of the club. Backloading was not Hendry’s modus operendi prior to the selling of the club, and I doubt we’ll see it again – apart from the regular level of inflation that generally happens in multi-year contracts.
DGU - December 10, 2009
Well said...
…a good GM needs to have a solid core plan, and stick to it for long term success. Also, if the biggest part of that plan is spending money like a druken sailor, it’s likely to blow up in your face.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
Um...the "contracts" did help this team do jack shit...the players did.
And the “contracts” are the reason we’re in a financial straight-jacket right now.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I'm no fan of the Packers, but the way they fit Charles
Woodson onto the team when first signed was brilliant. They identified cap room in a given year and overpayed him his salary the first year so the remaining years would be much lower.
Having a baseball GM identify a single salary slot to “overpay” year one to secure FA talent seems far to simple, but it would appear to work.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
No, Drew's right about this - at least the second part of his note
If you fire someone based on the winter meetings, then you should have fired him in October/November. You either give the guy a chance or you don’t.
I think Hendry’s on his last hurrah, but he’s going to get to see it through.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Nobody is advocating he get fired BECAUSE of the winter meetings
it’s just another in a long line of bad moves. Not THE bad move
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
Fine, but then again - he should have been fired already
“You’re fired unless pigs fly out of your ass” Well, while that might sound “boss-like” to some, all that does is waste time and hurt the organization. You either give the guy time or you don’t. The choice has been made.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
I know the choice has been made. And I was clearly advocating he clear out
his desk the day the season ended. I’m not saying he WILL be fired. I just find it laughable that people think he should be in this job right now. It’d be one thing if there wasn’t a very distinct pattern to be emerging. This isn’t remotely the first time he’s signed a guy to a terrible contract, then spent months trying to get him off the team. This is like the fourth. At some point, he no longer gets the chance to clean up the messes he makes
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
you should write
a strongly worded letter.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
It wouldn't matter.
But Jim could go BCB on read your posts and see that he has big supporter in you and he could feel better about his moves.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
And Ricketts
could do the same and see that when he has fired Hendry he has found his new GM.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
that would be pretty cool
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
I thought he should have been gone either the day after the season ended or the day after Ricketts took control.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
then you don't appear to understand
how Ricketts operates. The articles about it were pretty clear — he’s a pragmatic guy who analyzes the situation and makes sure of everything before he makes a big move. Expecting Ricketts to fire Hendry on day one was a no-go from the start.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Logic does not compute
You are going to give yourself a headache. Some believe if they stomp their feet hard enough and yell loud enough that the Cubs will win the series.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
Bloody Blue in the face hasn't helped either
eths - December 10, 2009 via mobile
Your right...
…and I think your also seeing how he is going to run the club with the current Bradley situation as well.
This deal would be done (and they could move forward with other plans) if the Cubs were willing to eat the dough the market is demanding on Bradley. Ricketts has obviously drawn a line in the sand, and even though it could muck up how they move forward, he is sticking to it. He is clearly thinking long term here, even if it curtails something that may help in the short term. This is a pure business like approach and frankly, bottom line approached which may end up pissing some people off.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
It will hurt the short term...
… and make a real bad first impression as owner. Ricketts should know that, cut his losses and move on.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
I suspect it will only make a bad impression...
… to the nerds on this site.
Elsewhere in Chicago, life goes on. They’ll tune back in come late March.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
He can't see past his love of Bradley
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
The highest paid #2 hitter in the game today.
His OBP is good, his defense sketchy, and his attitude problem is horrid, but he is our knucklehead and we love him.
Just what we bargained for when we signed him.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
You need to chill on this.
Doesn’t baiting Drew in to the same arguments day after day get old? He clearly doesn’t “love” Bradley. He’s stated repeatedly what his position is, and yet you somehow find it amusing to continue to inflate it and then poke him with a stick whenever he ventures in to the comments section. Even here, when the thread is discussing firing Hendry, you can’t help yourself.
He isn’t the only one here advocating we not trade the dude away for a different set of problems. In fact, as the rumors have come and gone, many people have publicly stated that they’d prefer to keep him over what the alternatives are so far. Doggie Stalker made a pretty compelling argument yesterday, and i don’t see you picking on her repeatedly.
Its not even a baseball discussion any more. Its a pissing contest. Let it go.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Bradley is a huge example of Hendry's problems as a GM. That is why I bring it up.
He comes after me everyday too, why do I not see you go after him.
Does he need more help?
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
There is a difference...
… in debating points (what Drew does) and consistently calling people out by name / attributing things to them that they didn’t say just to rile them up (what you do).
That is the epitomy of an unproductive comment. Now, i understand that this is the internet and most of what takes place on here isn’t world changing, but i just don’t get what is in it for you to head down that road for the 100th time this off season.
You know how Drew is going to react to your feelings on Bradley. You aren’t saying anything new or interesting. Doesn’t it get boring?
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Well said.
sue369 - December 10, 2009
Its much longer than that. Are you paying attention at all?
Did you miss him wrecking a 97 win team?
Can you get past your odd man-love for Bradley to see common sense?
If you wasted 30 million at your job what would happen?
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
So the 2009 Cubs weren’t the prohibative favorites for the division going into the season?
Oh, wait — they were.
There’s a reason they actually play the games.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
They were and the people Jim brought in sure did their part in wrecking that prediction.
Your boy Bradley was probably the single biggest reason they did not win.
He stats sucked, and he was a negative circus all seaon.
10 million dollars should have gotten us more.
The fact that Bradley is an ass is well known and Jim got him anyways. FOR 3 YEARS!
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
oh, my god...
forget it. The 2009 season has nothing to do with Soriano being plagued by injuries all year long, or by Gregg blowing saves, or by Ramirez being out of it. No, the 2009 season is a failure because of a guy who hit .308 in August.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
That last sentence
is why no one is taking you seriously.
LT - December 10, 2009
Bradley
bears as much responsibility as any other player for poor performance. But had Soto and Soriano hit even close to their averages, Bradley would be a footnote in a post-season appearance.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
He wouldn't have been playing the postseason, he got suspended
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
And, arguably, if the season had gone better...
… and the fans / media / team all hadn’t been so frustrated, chances are he wouldn’t have been suspended. What’s more, chances are Hendry would have thought twice about the suspension if the team still had been playing for something at that point, right?
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
True-I was counting on you saying something like that
So if things do not go exactly Bradley’s way, we have seen the end result.
Then again a few years ago his Padres were in contention and it did not stop him from attacking an umpire.
it sounds like the umpire was at some fault there but you have to know you can’t do that. Even if he didn’t get hurt that was going to be a massive suspension.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
Ok, now we are talking.
Real conversation from you… i’m gonna grab this while its hot and see if we can continue it!
Do you think Bradley would have been suspended at the end of the season if the team had been headed for the playoffs? Legit question. I’m interested in your and other people’s opinions on this.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Yes, I do think he would have been.
Obviously, there was more to that incident — the umpire, too, was suspended, and justifiably so — but Bradley’s actions were definitely suspendable.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
no, not when he got injured
2009.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Oh, I get it.
Yes, I think the Cubs would still have sent him home.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Or Dome still not being able to produce for a whole season, Fonte not being a legit starter, Geo smoking himself fat, etc., etc.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
He had one decent month and that is enough for you?
Forget that he hit .182 in Sept and got himself suspended.
Or the .118 and suspension in April.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
I'm not going through this with you again.
he improved his play month to month, with the exception of September, and the first suspension was a bullsh!t call to begin with.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
It may be. I actually agree with you on that one.
But he has to know everyone thinks he is a jerk and isn’t going to get any breaks. That isn’t right, but that is the bed he has made for himself.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
that doesn't mean
he sits back and lets umps walk all over him on questionable calls. In addition to being a pride issue, it HURTS THE TEAM.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
So does being suspended. Then again he was hitting in the low .100's at the time, so it was probably better for the Cubs for him to sit.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
Jose Macias, Ben Grieve, Roberto Novoa, Cesar Izturis, Aaron Heilman, Aaron Miles, Kevin Gregg, Milton Bradely
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
You forgot
Neifi Perez, Glendon Rusch, Phil Nevin, John Mabry
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Yes, I did. And it was wonderful.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Sorry to re-hash, then.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
You have a CEO for your Widget Company
He has led your company to the best widget maker in the world, two years in a row. This year though he put your company $100M into the hole and damn nearly bankrupt you. Do you say well you did a such a good job for me two years ago, I don’t mind having to giving up my Bently for a Hyundai. Or do you say thank you for what you done for us in the past and we are taking the company in a new direction?
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Not a good analogy
For it to work, the Cubs would have had to had a losing record and been out of contention for most of the season.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
::edit::
He has led your company to the best widget maker in the world, two years in a row.He has led your company to be about the 7th or 8th best company in the country.santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Good point.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
I think most companies would be happy with that.
Of course, that’s more why that’s a bad analogy than anything. In business, success is relative. In baseball, rabid fans consider anything short of a championship a failure.
Wreckard - December 10, 2009
Or how about a player that just enjoys being able to play a game for a living
Maybe a player that thinks, “Hey I play a kids game for a living and I should be thankful that I get to do it for pay, let me not insult the fans, my teammates, and the team that I play for.”
I know, I know, that doesn’t matter we should be kissing his butt for playing for the Cubs, thank you almighty OBP machine for being a Cub.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
who is asking you
to kiss his butt?
Once again, ball players are held to a higher standard. I don’t get it. They’re people, just like everyone else.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
And when I insult my customers or boss or company wanna guess what happens to me?
Higher standard? How about held to a standard.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Bradley
shouldn’t have done that.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
We agree on that.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
finally!
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
what do you mean, "finally?"
I’ve never defended what he said.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
but unfortunately
by even suggesting that it might not be the end of the world if Bradley is brought back makes you and him blood brothers and you an automatic defender of everything that he does.
Black or white. Didn’t you know that it’s becoming the BCB way.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
Or how about
suggesting that Bradley would be better off on a different team makes you hate Bradley and therby not understanding Baseball because of his OBP.
Each camp lobs mortars at each other and neither camp is actually correct. Bradley is a decent baseball player, yes. He can’t control himself, yes. Would he be better off somewhere else, you decide. Would the Cubs be better off without him, once again you decide for yourself.
Either way, this guy has taken up way too much time.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
I've never said that
Actually I’m pretty sure I’ve said it’s probably best that he doesn’t come back. I’m just not willing to make another team’s situation better at the expense of the Cubs.
Also I’m not in a camp, I form my own opinions and make my own statements. If I agree on certain points with someone else that doesn’t mean that i’m going to agree with them on everything. That said I can’t remember many people being called a Bradley hater for suggesting he would be better off on another team.
I also don’t use OBP because I don’t have a great understanding of that stuff.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
It's a job.
Just because you envy it doesn’t mean that those that can play it should be groveling at the feet of fans because their job is a “kids game” that they should be thankful to be able to play for a living.
Baseball is a multi-billion dollar a year industry; baseball players are employees. More than that, they’re a product that the industry sells, and for that hey get paid millions of dollars. Elevating them to another level is something you’re doing, it’s not their responsibility.
And besides, we’re not talking about someone who cheated on his wife with dozens of women, or shot his chauffeur, or accidentally bombed a wedding. We’re talking about a guy who said some mean things and was apparently a lousy teammate.
The lack of perspective on this is hilarious.
Wreckard - December 10, 2009
What would happen to Mr. Wreckard if you insulted your fellow employees and your customers or your boss?
I’m not asking for a higher standard, I’m asking for A standard. I hold him to the same standard that anyone other person would be held too. And since I’m the customer, I feel there should be some type of action taken agaisnt him. If you don’t feel that way well that is your opnion and I respect that.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
And that's ludicously naive
I work in an industry with at-will employment, not guaranteed contracts. There are hundreds of thousands of people who could do my job, and so I’m not paid millions to do that job. I’m also not packaged and sold as an entertainment product, which changes the standards – and expectations – completely.
The idea that you can arbitrarily compare what you or I do for a living to the employment situation of a baseball player is absurd.
Like a suspension and fine? He said mean things. He was suspended and fined, which is an appropriate punishment. You’re out for blood because you don’t like who he is, not what he did.
Wreckard - December 10, 2009
Alright me try it this way.
So they shouldn’t be treated differently?
So they should be treated differently?
So that isn’t a big deal?
So that is a big deal?
So they are just normal people?
So they aren’t normal people?
Which way you want to take your arguement because you are talking out both sides of your mouth here. Well I guess you can’ t be wrong that way.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Wow
I started to point out your creative cut and paste, but decided it just wasn’t worth it.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
How am I talking out of both sides of my mouth exactly
No, baseball players are not normal people. They are not held to the same standard as you or I, because you and I are not doing a job so specialized that only a few hundred people in the world can do it, in an industry worth billions of dollars a year. That is the simple reality of the situation.
What Bradley did really isn’t a big deal. He said mean things and was a lousy teammate. What he did was stupid and wrong, and because of that he was suspended.
However, I would have no problem with the Cubs bringing him back next year because I don’t really care whether the players I cheer for are good people or not. If the Tiger Woods thing should have proven anything to anyone, it’s that even the athletes out there that the media bends over backwards to portray as perfect and lovable are all flawed and egotistical, just like you and I.
Wreckard - December 10, 2009
I haven't been reading this whole thread
but picked this post up and agreed with a lot of it – almost rec’d it.
Here’s the thing. I do subscribe to the theory that Bradley did more than we knew and I suspect his relationship with Lou and Perry and Joshua was particularly ugly. I’ve wondered if the firing of Perry – who was really good for us in 2008 – had something to do with trying to placate MB.
You’re general argument is right – if all Bradley did was what we heard about, then he should be able to come back. But it’s clear Bradley cannot come back. Therefore…
DGU - December 10, 2009
I think that's a reasonable argument
And from a team management perspective, that’s totally fair. But from a fan point of view – all the vitriol directed at Bradley is based on things that we’re assuming or reading between the lines, and I’m not sure what I think about it.
At any rate, we’ll just have to see exactly how badly the Cubs want him gone; there’s a huge gap between wanting him “$5M and Pat Burrell” gone, and “$21M and nothing to show for it” gone.
Wreckard - December 10, 2009
Yep.
I agree about how disturbing the fan hatred towards Bradley and Hendry is. Sports should be entertaining – not spiritually draining.
DGU - December 10, 2009
Speaking for me...
…I have been very critical of Hendry, but I think he is a good guy (the kind of guy you would want to have a beer with).
I just don’t think he is a very good GM, and as a Cubs fan, I think he is a real weak link in the chain.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
To be clear
I recognize the difference between rational argument that I disagree with and spirtually draining hatred. I can have a conversation with you on Hendry and disagree and know at the end of the day that you’re a rational person who’s just having fun talking about the Cubs. That’s not the case with some other people on the boards right now.
DGU - December 10, 2009
Let me also add
that I’m glad to find disagreeing perspectives here at BCB. The wealth of perspective here is much appreciated – not just even when, but often times especially when it’s different than mine own.
DGU - December 10, 2009
That's a good description all around
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Right on.
D98 - December 10, 2009
You nailed it...
…and I have heard from folks in the know that the Bradley experiment was much messier than meets the eye.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
And therefore, at the end of the day...
… he’ll be gone. Likely by the time the calendar turns.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
I would be shocked...
…if he wasn’t, and I really think what you are seeing here in the short term, is an internal message within the organization of how baseball business will be conducted under Ricketts.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
Which is what, exactly?
That’s a serious question. Personally, I’d have thought the Ricketts would want to cut their losses and just get rid of the problem, no matter how much it cost.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
I don't...
I think they’re all but broke, and have told fans as much over the last few months. We’re just thick, and haven’t been listening. I question whether they actually have 10 million or so to just make this problem go away.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
And if I might add.
Once teams found that out — that they weren’t prepared to eat half this deal, as a rational actor would have expected — is when the interest went from “everyone is calling”, to “Don’t call us, we’ll call you!”.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
Here's a serious question.
Let’s say the Cubs DO trade Milton to Tampa, and agree to pay the entire 2011 salary.
When is that 2011 money due? Now? Or in 2011?
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
I don't know for certain...
But I wouldn’t assume that a portion isn’t due at the time of trade.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
It would depend on the arrangement between the trading teams
But in all likelihood, that money would be due in 2011.
Wreckard - December 10, 2009
IMO...
…the message is this, he is not happy with some of the mess he has acquired and the money that has been pissed away.
For right now, he is telling Hendry; you made this mess, now go fix it under my terms, not yours.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
We're going to have to disagree...
I know poor people, and these are the high profile versions of poor. I think it used to be referred to as “new money”.
They drained the bank account, and took pawn shop loan rates to buy this team, and cash expenditures for the next 12-18 months will be minimal, at best.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
I think...
…we are saying the same thing.
The Ricketts clearly went out on a limb to buy the club (and cashed in a bunch of their own stock at a low point) to raise the down payment, and spending money without thorough analysis is not going to happen.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
Right, but...
… at least in my view, “fixing it” includes getting Bradley off the team.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
I understand...
…but the guy who just bought the team is only willing to do that for the dollar amount he has in mind.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
In my opinion...
… he’s set that amount too low.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Yup
n/t
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
It's looking that way...
…but i do think he has an alternative agenda here as well.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
I'm still waiting to see how this thing pans out.
I’m not sure why the Cubs can’t get some team to eat more salary if we offer a cheap, somewhat valuable player. Perhaps Ricketts has said no to that, too.
DGU - December 10, 2009
I really think...
…part of his reasoning here is simply putting Hendry to the test.
He wants to see if he can work through this without needing to give up a decent young player, or eating a bunch of the dough.
In essense, he is giving Hendry a chance to show him he can correct a problem without continuing to have it cost the team. If he can’t, it’s possible Ricketts uses this (in his mind) as an indicator that Hendry may not be his guy.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
Well if you think the Cubs' shot in 2010 is minimal
then you can afford to set lines in the sand like that. (This is a response to both MPH73 and DJ.) But you have to wonder if the cash is more valuable to the Cubs than say, Angel Guzman or a 15-20 prospect at a position where we have depth. I think we’re close enough to the Cards that you don’t want to write off 2010, though far enough away that you can’t just sell too much of the farm.
DGU - December 10, 2009
I would never...
…right off 2010, especially in the Cubs division.
Would I pick the Cubs right now to win the division? No, because I think too many good things need to happen for them to turn it around, but it is certainly possible.
If the stars aligned, they could win the division by 10 games, or they could be out of it by 15, the range is wide.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
It has a lot to do with the Cards' offseason
but so far, the Cards’ offseason isn’t going any better than ours. They’re going to need more patience for Holliday than we need for Bradley, I predict.
DGU - December 10, 2009
The Brewers got better this week
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Right now...
…my biggest concerns are the pitching staff and the health of Ramirez.
If Ramirez goes down, they are done, plain and simple.
The pitching staff is another story. Zambrano scares me, and he may be heading into an injury prone portion of his career. Besides that, I also don’t think his mental frame of mind will ever change. Lilly scares me too. The Cubs will need these 3 guys to be healthy and productive to have a winning season.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
I thought i read...
… that Z was working out hard this offseason and had lost a bunch of weight?
Or was that Soto?
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
both would make me happy
heine41 - December 10, 2009
It was Z.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Let's hope both...
…are getting in game shape.
With that said, I believe Z lost a bunch of weight a couple of years ago as well, and it really didn’t help much.
Pitchers can get away with being a little bulky (some of them even pitch better), but a catcher is a different story.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
It was Z
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
I've been expecting Z to go into an injury portion of his career
for three years now…. maybe longer. So, I guess, now that I’m not expecting it, you’ll probably be right.
DGU - December 10, 2009
You haven't been wrong...
…because he has had some injury problems the last couple of years now. I fear it may not stop, and actually get worse.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
I think that's more or less established.
Just last week, we saw that Hendry could make $1.7 M of a bad $2.7M contract disappear…. but only if you throw in Jake Fox and a million dollars.
If that’s the going rate, then Hendry is going to have to send $8M and 10 prospects along with Bradley. Hmm.
D98 - December 10, 2009
Well,
I’ve long theorized that Ricketts reigned him in at the organizational meetings, prohibiting him from doing anything that impacted the long-term prospects of the team. I’d kind of let that go, but after watching the Granderson negotiations, I’m left to wonder again.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
This is where we differ I suppose
I care that the players on my team are good people. I don’t want wife beaters, racists, steriod users, drug users, or trouble makers on my team. I don’t really care that they can hit 40 home runs in a season, have a .300 batting average, or can throw 100 mph fastball.
I want a player that I can point at my kid and say look at him, not only can he play baseball but he is a decent human being. Is that so much to ask for? Players that understand teamwork and team concept? We preach it to our kids and yet we celebrate players who destroy teams.
Maybe I’m just old fashion that way but I thought “team sports” meant being part of a team, not just being the best player on the team.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Fair enough.
As i stated repeatedly yesterday, everybody finds different ways and reasons to enjoy sports. Many people believe th #1 goal of the Cubs should be the World Series. I’m in that camp, and am willing to sacrifice a little in the nice guy department to see it happen. I’m sure there are fans of the Lakers who would have prefered to ditch Kobe after Colorado, even if it meant they didn’t get last years ring. That is all totally within reason.
But one of these things is not like the others…
If Bradley had run-ins with the Chicago Police Department, had broken rules of the game or done ‘roids, things of that nature, i’d be less willing to take him back. Instead, he’s just sort of a dick to everyone it seems. Its annoying, but being that it doesn’t seem to have any direct correlation with how the team performs, i’m not inclined to care way too deeply. Those are my priorities.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
We will disagree about his action and the influence it had on the team
yes there are ton other things that went wrong on the team but I do believe his actions did effect the team but this ain’t that arguement.
Disrecpting your team, your teammates and your fanbase is the wrong message went to send.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
I'm fairly certain Mr. Wreckard is not a professional athlete
And granted it sucks, but professional athletes are not held to the standard that normal working people are held to.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
Rec'd.
Wish i could have 100 times.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
given how
CEOs in this country are treated, I don’t think you want to be making that comparison. But since baseball players aren’t widgets that do the same thing every time, it doesn’t work as an analogy anyway.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Massive analogy fail.
Hendry is in charge of hiring, not finances.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Alright bad anology....
but if a GM does well in the past, that’s great but it doesn’t mean that he can stop producing. In baseball you have a bad year, you get canned. If Lou has a 60 Win season you think he’d still be the manager?
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Really?
Glad you don’t own the cubs.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
How do you know I'm not Ricketts :P
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
Mr. Ricketts,
I’m desperately looking for a new job. I love the Cubs. I will do pretty much anything. I need roughly $55K plus full medical and three weeks vacation. Thank you.
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
Send your Resume too
C/O Human Resources
1060 West Addison Street,
Chicago, Illinois
60613
I’ll look into for you.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
fail
that was both lame, and nonsensical
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
Meh
The original suggestion isn’t likely to come to fruition.
Hendry’s probably got at least 2 months of the season yet before he’d get fired.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
I'm not advocating Jimbo getting fired at all, but
two months of frozen trigger finger will hurt the team badly.
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
well, I am advocating he get fired, and I agree with you
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
It will, but I think he gets time to fix it.
They can’t really do a major overhaul, and Ricketts is probably willing to risk 2010 for the future.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
LOL
DMCub - December 10, 2009
This sure is starting to look like 2004-2005 all over again, though.
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
yep
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
So today's meeting don't go through the end of the day? Only until 10am?
digitalbenjamin - December 10, 2009
Today is primarily for Rule 5
rlpete - December 10, 2009
Jim had to get to Pizza Hut before the buffet closed.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
Wow
Mapmaker - December 10, 2009
Devestating.
I’m so sick of Milton Bradley. :(
slcathena - December 10, 2009
ugh
Emelie - December 10, 2009
Well crap.
sue369 - December 10, 2009
A big waste of time. All the Cubs did was get laughed at by the other GMs.
This was after last year when Jim was laughed at for giving the jerk 3 years.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
But Milton told Jim he would be a good boy at the dinner they had
rlpete - December 10, 2009
Jim will believe him again. Then give him a 2 year extension
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
that probably won't happen, but the "reconcilliation press conferece"
seems pretty likely
“Milton and I had a long talk, and we both believe that 2010 will be a better season for everybody”
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
How very depressing
eths - December 10, 2009 via mobile
especially........
because it makes BLou right
jballgame - December 10, 2009
when you predict
everything and anything, you always have a chance of being right.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
When you predict
everything and anything, you’re bound to be wrong a lot. And then take a whole lot of shit when nobody else is willing to stick their necks out.
dr stabbingworth - December 10, 2009
MB
is really unmovable unless we could trade him for the Cubs leftfielder. All the scenarios out there I just don’t see a fit.
The only hope the Cubs have is a injury in spring training and a team is desperate for a bat.
I think MB is our rightfielder come opening day 2010. I just threw up all over my keyboard, I have to go.
Grockcubs - December 10, 2009
Jabba Bradley?
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
That's another thing that is sad. We have ANOTHER horrible contract with a should be DH in LF.
He’s not a complete asshole is what is saving him.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
Soriano should be a DH?
I keep seeing that meme around here. You guys have a curious way of evaluating defense, if one injury-plagued year of below average defense can cancel out 3 consecutive years of being in the top 5 of UZR for left fielders.
Wreckard - December 10, 2009
We've already established above...
… in the “FIRE HENDRY” thread that we don’t CARE about past success, future potential, or the greater picture in any way.
Nope, here at BCB we hire / fire based entirely on what has taken place in the last 12 months!
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
It’s hard to argue with 100 years of success. (facetious)
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
Wow... you are all resigned to defeat awfully quick
I have faith that JH will work something out before the season starts. I might take longer than we like though…
digitalbenjamin - December 10, 2009
This party...
… is some eyeliner and a Dashboard Confessional CD short of me feeling the need to make an intervention type call to the Cutters Anonymous hot line.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
There's really an entire season to play in 2010
I’m not going to write off the season due to the inability to move Milton Bradley and the loss of Rich Harden. Certainly the refusal to offer Harden arbitration can be tied with Hendry’s desire to move Bradley at all costs. Bad signings are capable of costing GMs their jobs and if Hendry can’t move Bradley and the Cubs fail to win the division again in 2010, you can bet Hendry is gone after next season and the remainder of Bradley’s contract will be eaten.
Ace Venom - December 10, 2009
rec’d
jballgame - December 10, 2009
New conspiray theory
All Yellon needs to keep the traffic up on BCB, so he has asked Hendry to hold off on trading Bradley. Good going Al.
Cubsfan Waveland - December 10, 2009
my typing is bad today
Cubsfan Waveland - December 10, 2009
LMAO
If only I were that prescient.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
I'll buy you a beer next time I am in the bleachers
Cubsfan Waveland - December 10, 2009
Deal!
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Given the amount of hand-wringing going on today, I would encourage everyone to read this:
(From here.)
So let’s take a deep breath here, if only for a minute. The Cubs have 3 months to move Milton Bradley before a media storm of epic proportions hits Arizona.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
No they don't have that long
if all their other offseason moves are tied and based on the ability to move MB. Yeah I agree, it didn’t have to happen this week but it certainly needs to happen soon.
DC Cubbie - December 10, 2009
I'd agree, the sooner the better.
But Jim could have a wink-wink agreement in place with Mike Cameron, who is willing to wait until Bradley is moved.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
that is what we have to hope for
elgato - December 10, 2009
I wouldn't be shocked
Last year, he had a similar agreement with you-know-who, telling him to wait until the club could push some money aside.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
BINGO! We have a winner
As I stated earlier, Tom Verducci didn’t think Milton Bradley would be traded during these meetings, he said it on MLB Network two days ago I believe, but he would be moved before Spring Training and he’d probably go to an AL team in a secondary market, Seattle or Toronto, he suggests.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
As a media junkie, I would kinda like to see that.
As a Cubs baseball fan, I would boycott the season (not really, but I would proclaim so).
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
just to watch some of the Cubs' reporters who dumped on Milton have to cover him again would be entertaining
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
It's not the Late 90's
with mega free agent signings every day of the winter meetings. But I think more trades will come next week.
MLB is the best sport at hyping events – All-Star game, trade deadline, post-season, end of season awards, free agency and meetings, HoF voting, pitcher and catchers, etc. MLB strings out baseball through-out the year. They do a great job of it.
RiskyBusiness - December 10, 2009
The foundation for many trades and signings comes out of these meetings.
The Cubs’ most significant moves for 2009 (misguided as they were proven to be) came on Dec. 31 last year (and later that week). That’s 3 weeks from now.
IMO, Major League Baseball misses out on a huge amount of PR by closing most of the Winter Meetings to the general public.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
Next Cubs Trade Deadline for Bradley =
January 15, start of the Cubs Convention. If Bradley is till on the 40-man roster, that could be an ugly start to the cub lovefest.
MLB is the country club of the uber-rich. Oh wait, you can pay $250 to attend a baseball job fair….
RiskyBusiness - December 10, 2009
Yeah, I wasn't going to pay $250.
Nor was I going to shell out $450 for a convention pass.
I would say Jan. 15 is the deadline. Makes sense.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
Let me tell you the problem with that...
In reality, most teams have set and spent their payroll nut by January. Some big spenders may have some cash around, and be able to sign premier free agents late. But mid-market teams are pretty much locked in by then.
The longer that Hendry waits, the more cash he is forced to eat. Maybe he takes back a bad contract then, but their seems to be this movement happening in front offices, in that they’re writing checks, and cutting their losses, so I wouldn’t count on that option in February. The longer he waits, the drastically worse this gets for all.
Damen Jackson - December 10, 2009
Normally I'd agree with you.
Not this year with all the non-tenders.
cubswynn - December 10, 2009
I don't think he can wait until February, either.
Unless someone goes down with an injury in the first couple weeks of Spring Training, Hendry would have no leverage then.
However, I’m not going to worry about the fact that the Cubs weren’t able to move Milton Bradley over a four-day stretch in early December, just because the amount of media speculation brought the Bradley pot to a boil on the internet.
As long the Cubs are considering their options and talking to team(s) about him, he’ll get moved, one way or another. I think by early January he’ll be gone, and the likelihood is that the deal made then will cost the Cubs the same as it would right now.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
Agreed and rec'd.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
If TB is willing to do
Burrell for Bradley and no cash – how can it get worse?
DGU - December 10, 2009
but they're not
at least, so far.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
My post was unclear
TB is willing to trade Burrell for Bradley if we get no salary relief on the second year. That’s what I meant by “no cash.” That’s the deal Jim has in hand. Why not do everything he can – even look desperate and foolish – trying to find a better deal?
I’m sure more than anyone else here whining and moaning, Jim Hendry wants MB off his roster. So, why fault him for working hard and taking time to get the best deal possible?
DGU - December 10, 2009
right
ok, sorry, I misunderstood.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
no need to apologize
You’ve got bigger fish to fry.
DGU - December 10, 2009
eh
it’s slow at work, that’s the biggest reason I’m willing to get sucked into this…
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Turn it green.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Jim Hendry is still an idiot
that saddled this franchise with a worthless malcontent that no one wanted, bid against himself(again), and gave the bum what amounted to a $31 mil contract. Fire him tonight.
Itchy - December 10, 2009
no one else has commented on the godot reference.
I just thought I would.
Uncle Stanley McGoober - December 10, 2009
I already did
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
People were waiting, apparently, for Godot.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
ISWYDT
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
People are waiting on MB to GO.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
Move forward with the mindset that Bradley is cut
The Cubs have to accept that the $21M is gone and that Bradley is not a part of any future on the field. However, I don’t think they should just cut him, at least not now. It serves no one any benefit other than Bradley himself.
At this point, they might as well keep him as long as they can to see if any team gets desperate at any point including spring training if need be. I’m not saying he should be allowed to join the team on the field or have any contact with players/management.
Yes, this is a desperate move to hope that SOME sort of market is created for Bradley prior to Opening Day, but it is a desperate moment.
If the Cubs were to out-right release Bradley now it only is good for him. Screw him. The Cubs have no incentive to help Milton find a new employer if they get nothing out of the deal. Let him wallow until the Cubs absolutely have to make a move, which I think is Opening Day.
jerry morales rules - December 10, 2009
Completely agree.
If we are going to eat his entire contract, can’t we at least get something back. Releasing him outright is just stupid. We can at least get a couple low level prospects back for him, right?
cubswynn - December 10, 2009
One way to create a market...
… invite him to spring training and hope he gets along OK. Its not “impossible”, no matter what Al or others may say.
Somebody will get hurt somewhere, or some guy will prove unproductive. If MB is in Arizona causing minimal trouble amid all the attention he’ll undoubtedly get, and playing semi-decently, somebody may take the risk.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
I doubt it, I think it will be a circus. But you may be right. At least I hope you are if he isn't already gone.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
What is the worst that could happen?
His value can’t get much lower, apparently.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
I guess we'll find out.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Rec'd
Completely agree. And if waiting to trade him means we don’t get to dip into the FA market this year, so be it.
Pat19 - December 10, 2009
Now you listen to me! I want trading reopened right now. Get those GMs back in here. Turn those machines back on!!
Andronicus - December 10, 2009
Don Ameche
From Kenosha, WI
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
If only it took a $1 to solve this mess.
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
LMAO!
Tangled Up In Blue - December 10, 2009
If there is no market for him
then we have to start upgrading elsewhere and stop focusing on Bradley so much. Bradley was not the reason we didn’t make the playoffs last year. We need to start focusing elsewhere or consider trading Fukudome instead.
Unique - December 10, 2009
I believe Kosuke has an NTC
Way to go, Jimbo!
elgato - December 10, 2009
Dude, the Gatorade machine was the only thing in that clubhouse without a NTC.
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
That's good
R.I.P. Gatorade machine
RiskyBusiness - December 10, 2009
Yeah --
I know. You’d think he might like Seattle or Boston? I don’t think he’d reject any trade.
Unique - December 10, 2009
He's said he loves
Chicago. He’s not going any where.
sue369 - December 10, 2009
White Sox?
lol.
Unique - December 10, 2009
We can also choose........
To look at things in a little more positive light. Does it suck to be in the position we’re in. YES. However:
1. Since when does a contract get judged on just 1 year?
2. Milton had his WORST year yet, do we believe he can be better next year-or is this the beginning of his decline b/c he’s 32?
3. Cutting him would be an utter waste of $21M
4. Trading him for something that will not produce what he will is still wasting $21M
5. I acknowledge this was a bad signing, but we can’t look back and say “what if”. We have to look forward and see what our best option is (which is not, by the way, hypothetical trades, because there has to be a willing 2nd party).
jballgame - December 10, 2009
Rec'd
Milton is a big boy with a big contract. Send him out there and tell him to deal with the booing. If he comes back with a good season, ship him out at the trade deadline.
dr stabbingworth - December 10, 2009
I see what you're trying to do
But I don’t think it’s going to take root right now. It’s kinda like McGwire saying he wasn’t there to talk about the past. Note that I’m not saying YOU are doing anything akin to what McGwire did.
We’ve all talked about possibilities for dumping Bradley — how else do 3,000 comments pop up on BCB without a trade. Today, I say let the complaining go on for the sake of emotional release.
elgato - December 10, 2009
Do the Cubs have the option to put him at Iowa?
Maybe earn his way back and increase the Cubs leverage? Just wondering.
ronniebaseball - December 10, 2009
this was asked yesterday
Bradley has a lot of mlb time put in. He can’t be put in the minors unless it’s for injury rehab, as far as I know. That’s how they got rid of Freel — they put him on the injury rehab jaunt, and never called him back up.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Maybe
If he was injured or playing spectacularly bad, then yes. But you can’t dump problems at Iowa. The player’s union would have a fit.
The Bradley/Sandberg cage match would be pretty entertaining, though.
dr stabbingworth - December 10, 2009
Yes Dude!
Rec’d all of the above
cubbiebear316 - December 10, 2009
'
Andronicus - December 10, 2009
and........
There is an out clause, based on injury, for 2010. I say send him out there, hope he gets injured, and we’re off the hook for $10M of the $12M owed in 2011.
jballgame - December 10, 2009
The 12 million
is owed. Bradley did not spend 75 days on DL in 09. 2011 is not a option.
Unique - December 10, 2009
Somehow
This thread has made an otherwise cold boring day, exciting. When do pitchers and catchers report again?
Villeslgr - December 10, 2009
The way I read it.....
Was that the 2011 option was based on 2010?
jballgame - December 10, 2009
No it was based on 2009.
However, if he ended 2009 on the DL (which he didn’t) and didn’t make the active roster by 4/15/10 then it becomes a club option.
Unique - December 10, 2009
Just re-read
I am wrong. Sorry. No 2011 option-DAMN IT!
jballgame - December 10, 2009
because
it would all be so much better if we could just root for Bradley to get hurt.
o.0
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
I'm disappointed ...
that Bradley has a guaranteed third year. Given that Adam Dunn only got two years from Washington, Hendry probably could have gotten Milton for two, without option year three.
elgato - December 10, 2009
you're probably
right.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
That was the biggest mistake.
Had there been no third year, he would likely have been traded by now.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
yup
Hendry giving two years to Miles and three years to Milton was pretty inexplicable.
elgato - December 10, 2009
not if you believe Sam Zell made him do it.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
is this a ref to the conversation above?
Also, I think Zell was being phased out by early last year …
elgato - December 10, 2009
Yes.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Again...
… you are taking my entirely reasonable comment and making it it’s most extreme cousin as a way to disprove it.
This is not an effective tactic anywhere past eighth grade debate. Everybody knows that isn’t what i was say. What is your goal here?
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
I'm AGREEING with your entirely reasonable comment.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
You mocked me for it above.
And your comments are 90% sarcasm, so its hard to tell.
Generally, i appreciate that. Just for the record.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
You underestimate the power of SWL.
He is 98% sarcasm.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
And his pictures are worth...
DGU - December 10, 2009
Either they're in the 98% or you
are implying the pictures are sincere.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
Is it just a "Drew" thing?
I’m starting to think Andrew & Drew are on the same side here…
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
what
the side of not wasting $21million?
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
I was thinking this side:
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
that would appear to be
a picture depicting the people who want to blow $21million.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
It's already blown.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
LOLz.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
it doesn't have to be.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Yes, it is.
In my opinion, Milton Bradley’s value to the Cubs is zero.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
yes
we know.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Wait... i didn't.
When did that happen? :-)
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
I wouldn't go that far
I think Milton would have value, but the situation has gotten so bad that he wouldn’t be worth the headaches.
elgato - December 10, 2009
There is the heart of your "side's" problem.
While Drew and i acknowledge the desire to trade Bradley, and understand why everyone wants to do it, your “side” would prefer to mock anybody who doesn’t want to go about it in the most desperate and wasteful manner possible.
This doesn’t have to happen today. This doesn’t have to happen before spring training. Realistically, it doesn’t have to happen AT ALL, although everyone, myself included, would prefer it.
Nothing we’ve seen so far makes the team we cheer for better in 2010. In fact, most options downgrade the team and / or handcuff it further financially for the foreseeable future.
Drew and I are willing to be patient in order to avoid that. Why this is so absurd and insulting to everyone is beyond me.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Beyond you is also the perspective that keeping Bradley on the team will cause more problems and be more trouble than his performance would justify.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
that would be
an opinion. Therefore, no more or less valid than the opinion that he could be kept, told to keep his composure, and play well, and succeed.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
other than the fact that he's never actually done those things all at the same time before.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
you're exaggerating.
He’s had stretches were things were fine. I think that if he can start the year off well, he’s got a good chance of being a productive player. This year, hopefully, the expectations of the team will be lower, and the pressure will be less.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
OK...
other than the fact that he’s never actually done those things all at the same time before for an entire baseball season.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
yep
Zambrano’s never gone a season without a spectacular fight with an ump either.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Zambrano is a lazy idiot too
But its still not even close.
They say Big Z has lost 15 lbs and is traing hard for the season. Maybe he has grown up some and was not to proud of last season.
I am also trying to remember when Z was sent home for the season by the team…
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
while Bradley's suspension by Hendry was deserved
let’s not make more of it than it was. We’re talking two weeks of baseball. Not 50 games, like Ramirez missed because of his injury.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Yep. Ramirez is a lousy teammate for seperating his shoulder.
o.0
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
I'm not saying that.
however, he did miss nearly two months of baseball.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
ARam was actually hurt
Bradley acted so bad the team made him go away.
A little different,huh?
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
not when it comes
to how many games you play.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
You're ridiculous.
Employee A is in a car wreck and misses a month of work.
Empolyee B is suspended from work for violating company policy.
Both Employees missing work is the same.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Turn it green.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Is Milton Bradley the driver of the car that caused the accident?
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
or his he the banana peel
that caused the car to skid off the cliff?
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
Except it's
Employee A gets hurt and doesn’t play for over 50 games
Employee B gets suspended at the end of the season and misses something like ten games.
Which hurts the team more, again?
I don’t blame Rami for getting hurt. I just think a little perspective is necessary. But then, that’s what I’ve been saying for days, and no one is listening anyway…
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Correction:
Employee B was suspended at the BEGINNING and the END of the season.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
Why do you keep bringing up Ramirez's injury as a comparative fact with Bradley?
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I don't understand that either
Bradley seemed to milk injuries while ARam probably came back too soon. He played with pain the rest of the season. Would Bradley have done that? I seem to remember Bradley refusing to pinch hit…..
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
oh, please
you think Milton Bradley doesn’t play in pain? Did you watch him play? He flung himself after the ball with abandon. The TEAM wanted to be careful with him, to avoid serious injury — and, by and large, they succeeded. He spent very little time on the DL.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
yeah ...
I don’t think Milton’s effort was ever the problem.
elgato - December 10, 2009
Calling it an inning
after 2 outs helps with that.
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
This past year...
…was a good indicator of just how valuable Ramirez is to the club.
You have to hope his shoulder doesn’t keep popping out as can be the case with these things. Without him, this team has no chance.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
because
people like to talk about Bradley being a wimp, and yet, he played more games than Rami did.
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
::rolls eyes::
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I'm sorry, the correct response is:
o.0
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
This is why people are arguing with you
because of stupid, indefensible shit like this. Sorry, but you’re really trying to polish a turd here.
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
Actually, they did that on Mythbusters last year
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
What was the result?
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
They succeeded, believe it or not
Linky
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Of course, I can't view that here
So I don’t know if it’s the successful run
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
The Milton Bradley Situation wouldn't even exist...
if arguing with an umpire is all he did.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
correct
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
It's not beyond me.
I certainly count that as a possibility. And you know what? If it happens, at THAT point you could justify trading him for nothing, or cutting him, or dealing with him however.
At this point, though, there is a chance that he’d come back and behave fine, and that chance is about as big as the chances that most of what we’ve been offered in return for him would get here and help the team.
Bradley for Crap, which is pretty much what we’ve seen thus far, is just shifting problems around. No reason to create more in our desperation to get rid of one.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
If/when Milton is hurt/suspended/pouting next year...will the $ he's making not be wasted?
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
YES
You get it completely!
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
do you have a crystal ball in your shorts?
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Do you have anything in yours?
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
Yes, it's part of a set....
you seem to have the other.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
this is a major...
…reason the real market for Bradley is very very low. He is guaranteed money for the next two years, and with his history, that means a long DL stint is right around the corner.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
They are
Andrew just words things better
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
I WANT TO TRADE BRADLEY.
In fact, after i type this comment up, i’m going to go put it in my sig line, as you clearly become confused on the issue if i don’t remind you of it with my every comment.
I just would prefer to go about it in a reasoned, well thought out manner. Lets face it… the juggling of the outfield is going to be the single biggest and most important move of this off season. The cavalry isn’t coming in the form of a new hot pitcher or some infield talent, so i’d prefer we not dump Bradly for somebody worse at baseball, with a worse contract, or a different kind of bad attitude. Trading our current predicament for another one is, in the words of BLou, nothing more than rearranging the Titanic’s deck chairs. Why are we all so frantic to make that happen?
Apparently Hendry agrees that patience is good at this point, and that everything that has been suggested so far has been laughably short of what the team needs in order to accomplish the goal of making the team better.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
I understand you want to trade Bradley, you are just more open to him returning than most of us.
I am glad you agree with Hendry. He has done a wonderfull job over the last year. I totally trust his judgement.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
I'm open to his return...
… because i don’t believe it is reasonable to think his snotty attitude and bad relationship with fans / media caused the Cubs to be any worse off in terms of on field success, which is what i care about. And because every trade rumor we’ve seen thus far has had the likely effect of making the team worse, thereby lessening the chances for a World Series in 2010, which ultimately is the goal.
As far as Hendry, its convenient that you focus on last year and ignore the previous two. I assume you’ll be doing the same for Soriano and Soto? And if we make the playoffs this year and the Cards don’t, you expect that they’ll fire LaRussa?
This isn’t a fantasy team we are talking about here. Nobody thought getting rid of Bradley was going to be easy. Hendry certainly didn’t do himself any favors in how he handled the Bradley investment from the second the contract started being written (why wasn’t anger management required?) to the second he suspended him and tanked his value to 0. I’m not letting Hendry off the hook. But now that it is what it is, we still have to hope we can enter 2010 as a better team, and Bradley for whoever we’ve seen thus far doesn’t accomplish that goal.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Bradley's return
I would be open to his return as well, given the alternatives, if I thought he could turn it around. IMHO it isn’t a matter of him producing or not, it’s a matter of how he handles himself, the media, fans and his teammates when he’s not.
He’s proven time and time again that he can not handle himself in a professional manner when things are not going his way. If he were to return, it wouldn’t be a matter of if, but when, he goes off and how that affects the team.
I’m not excited about the fact that Hendry and the Cubs are in this situation, and what it looks like Jim will have to do to get out of it, but there is no way IMHO that Bradley can be a productive member of the 2010 Chicago Cubs.
Tangled Up In Blue - December 10, 2009
Explain exactly how his shenanigans affected the team though.
This is the point that everyone keeps missing. Yes, the fans hated him. Yes, the media hated him. Hell, it even seems like his own teammates weren’t fans of his. But the complaints in the club house seemed to center around his being a loner and not fitting in, not around him sabotaging the season or ruining the environment for other players.
Its the fans that can’t stand him. The players are professionals and will continue to work with him if he is back. The question is, will his coming back cause losses? I don’t see how his behavior has led to that problem at this point.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Cubs record with & without Bradley playing.
With: 60-64
Without: 23-14
Cubs went 8-2 immediately after he was sent home.
Cause and effect? Maybe not. But it IS food for thought.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Last 10 games of the season
most of those games in that short time period looked as if the Cubs were a different team. It was astonishing to see. I never saw that many smiles on the bench all year.
I was a Bradley supporter, I never thought he was actually THAT toxic. I was proved wrong.
PieFan08 - December 10, 2009
8-2...
… against the Brewers, Diamondbacks and Pirates? Cool!
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Try again.
1-0 vs. the Cardinals
2-1 vs. the Brewers
3-1 vs. the Giants
1-0 vs. the Pirates
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Stop posting Facts Al
Let him have his fantasy will ya. Stop bringing everyone down with your truth, sheesh.
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
That is basically what i said...
… except you conveniently left out the Diamondbacks series (1-2) and, going from memory, i forgot the Giants.
None the less, we are talking about some pretty crappy teams here for the most part, agreed?
Going 4-3 against Arizona, Milwaukee and Pittsburgh post-Bradley isn’t exactly the ringing endorsement for ditching him you’d like, even if they did show well against the Giants and narrowly avoid a sweep at the hands of the Cards.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Not to mention that it's a really small sample size
Wreckard - December 10, 2009
For my sake
I only think the Trib push applied to the Soriano offseason.
I think last offseason was a 97-win team thinking the window was wide open and it was worth doing what it took to get the players they thought they needed.
DGU - December 10, 2009
I agree...
…but I also think the backloaded deals were all Trib driven, for obvious reasons.
All the no trades, and some of the player selections, is on the front office.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
I agree about the NTCs
DGU - December 10, 2009
I just think
we should bring the guy back and at least attempt to. That way, the media and eventually the GMs realize the Cubs aren’t handcuffed for the guy and the Cubs would be fine if they COULDN’T make a deal. That’s the problem now – teams know we need to get rid of him and they have all the leverage in the situation.
He’s a very good baseball player and if his heads screwed in correctly for ‘10 he could very well be a vital part of the Cubs. I think Bradley is a better player that both Burrell and Castillo (two of the bad contract options) and alot better at his job than Carlos Silva, so why don’t we at least an attempt to say he might very well be a Cub in 2010.
Unique - December 10, 2009
*Then not that
Unique - December 10, 2009
Ugh. Than.
1 hour of sleep might be the cause of the typos.
Unique - December 10, 2009
Bring him back!
Bradley has a few things going for him.
1) I think Jamarillo will help Bradley stay out of prolonged hitting slumps and give him someone to talk to in the clubhouse.
2) It takes a lot of players a year to get used to the Wrigley circus environment. Maybe he’s able to keep a low profile.
3) He’s only a year off of having one of the best hitting seasons in the AL. He has the talent, he just needs to find it again.
If Bradley hits .280-.300 in April and May, the ongoing Milton saga that many fear won’t happen.
His value can’t get any lower and it makes no business sense to throw away $21 million.
239 Brigade - December 10, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
SWL- Serious question
Looking at the Cubs outfield of Soriano, Fukudome and Bradley, who do you think has the highest ceiling and who do you think will put up the best numbers next year?
Looking solely at the Cubs OF, I slightly lean to MB for both of those answers. I’m definitely not convinced either way, but I like MB’s talent over Fukudome and Soriano.
239 Brigade - December 10, 2009
Soriano.
But the answer COULDA BEEN Adam Dunn. But nooooooo, we wanted “defense” and “average”.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
and we didn't really get either.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
If Soriano knee is healthy...he'll outproduce Milton in every catagorey except OBP.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I just don't trust Soriano's plate discipline.
I think the book on Sori is written, don’t throw him fastballs. I hope he proves me wrong, but we could be in for a string of .250 seasons with no walks. I don’t trust Sori’s average or OBP making his power much less valuable.
I think offensively Fukudome and Bradley are pretty similar. The main difference to me is that Bradley has shown the ability to maintain a high average for an entire season where Kosuke hasn’t.
Now, if you throw Burrell in that mix, I think he finishes dead last, which is why I don’t like the trade. Even when Milton isn’t hitting, he still comes through with some quality ABs.
239 Brigade - December 10, 2009
Soriano and Breaking Balls
It isn’t as if that was a news flash in May of 2009. That has been known for quite some time and yet Soriano has been quite productive through his career up until 2009.
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
The book...
…Soriano was written a long long time ago and hasn’t changed.
The issue is this; a lot of pitchers aren’t good enouph to pitch to the book.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
I want to say Dome, But I have an odd feeling it will be Soriano
It would be nice, because of the 3 Sori can carry the team for a couple weeks at a time when hot.
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
Would you believe it if they tried?
DGU - December 10, 2009
Make it green!
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
Can somebody else please recommend this so it's green?
Thanks.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
done
took me a while to locate the comment.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
I'm sure
many others on this site have rooted for worse……..
jballgame - December 10, 2009
ah, well
that makes it ok then!
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
dude
I’m one who re-started the conversation (or attempted to) of keeping Bradley and am actually on your “side”……….
jballgame - December 10, 2009
you're suggesting
we keep him and root for him to get injured. Right?
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Who said they wanted him hurt?
We just want him gone
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
right here
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/12/10/1193816/waiting-for-something-anything#26915687
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
I see it. You were right....
He’s a jerk and needs to go, but I can’t wish an injury on any player
TJ11 - December 10, 2009
I also said.........
We can also choose……..
To look at things in a little more positive light. Does it suck to be in the position we’re in. YES. However:
1. Since when does a contract get judged on just 1 year?
2. Milton had his WORST year yet, do we believe he can be better next year-or is this the beginning of his decline b/c he’s 32?
3. Cutting him would be an utter waste of $21M
4. Trading him for something that will not produce what he will is still wasting $21M
5. I acknowledge this was a bad signing, but we can’t look back and say "what if". We have to look forward and see what our best option is (which is not, by the way, hypothetical trades, because there has to be a willing 2nd party).
by jballgame on Dec 10, 2009 11:33 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
jballgame - December 10, 2009
Question
If MB can’t be moved without eating all of the contract, what are the prospects for 2010.
It would appear no significant upgrades will be made and the offense will rely on the health of Ramirez, Soriano and resurgence of Soto.
Lilly is a health question mark, so a Lilly fill in, #5 starter, bullpen and CF will come from within or or the bargain bin.
Would this make 2010 a rebuilding year, even with all the veteran talent?
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
No...
If Ramirez, Soriano are healthy all year, and Soto has a resugence…AND BRADLEY DOESN’T DETONATE…we’ll win the division.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Can we count on all three happening?
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
We can hope. That's about it.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I would say that if two of the three happen, there's still a good chance
of a playoff berth. I also think Lilly being able to make ~25 starts is pretty critical.
davidalanu - December 10, 2009
Just like any other season
If you can count on this or that happening, there would be no reason to play the games.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 10, 2009
I understand, but look at the Cardinals in
‘09. The big “If” was Carpenter. He worked, they worked. It’s one thing to hope Fontenot could play everyday, another to hope the 4/5/6 hitter get close to career averages for average, rbi and at bats.
N Oakley - December 10, 2009
I'm wondering ...
if Cubs’ fans would ease up on Hendry/Bradley if they know that the Cubs did everything they could to trade the guy, without success.
I’m not saying I WANT to see if this could happen. I’m just wondering if it would.
elgato - December 10, 2009
Cubs' fans
If it’s June and Bradley is hitting .300 and the Cubs have a 5 game lead in the division, the fans will ease up.
Tangled Up In Blue - December 10, 2009
What about Opening Day ...
Bradley’s had a good spring, both sides have made public apologies, etc.
If Bradley is booed liked crazy as soon as the season starts, can we really hope that he’ll be hitting .300 in June?
elgato - December 10, 2009
The team could just make an announcement along with the standard "Please be alert to bats and balls entering the seating area"
“Please do not boo Milton Bradley, we need him to be productive in June.”
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
How about...
…they add something to the back of the ticket:
Due to financial constraints, we could not eat Milton Bradley’s contract and he is still with the club. For this reason, please refrain from booing Mr. Bradley, so he can hopefully be productive. Anyone caught booing Mr. Bradley, will be immediately ejected, without a ticket refund.
MPH73 - December 10, 2009
Good idea...they could also put in something about not making offensive racist remarks too.
2 birds
1 stone
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Does this comment mean that
Steve Stone is the new GM and will acquire Pie and Roberts?
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
no........
Pie and Rich Hill
jballgame - December 10, 2009
I honestly can't see a way for the Cubs to bring him back with...
…after all of the negative PR from both sides. Even if he had a good spring he will still be scrutinized even more so than he was at the end of last year, and the fan and media "issues" would become more intense as soon as he began to slump.
Other players have been as outspoken, head cases, etc, and succeeded in Chicago, Rodman, Belle, and Sosa to some extent, but they produced. The fact that Bradley has the baggage and hasn’t produced makes matters worse for him.
Tangled Up In Blue - December 10, 2009
He's produced pretty much up to his career averages so far...
expecting him to be something other than a .260-.280 hitter with 12-15 HRs and alot of walks was the biggest mistake.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I'd just point out ...
that Bradley didn’t have a terrible year (like Soriano and Soto). He had a disappointing year.
I’m not a big Bradley defender. But he wasn’t Aaron Miles in terms of performance.
elgato - December 10, 2009
True
I should have clarified. He hasn’t produced up to fans expectations, or his contracts expectations. Neither of which are his fault.
I agree with SWL, the fact that Bradley was given 3/$30 mil to produce above his career numbers was the biggest mistake.
Tangled Up In Blue - December 10, 2009
not just above his career numbers ...
the Cubs paid him to essentially be a lefty Ramirez (middle of the order bat with RBI abilities). Bradley (like Kosuke before him) was more of a table-setter, OBP guy.
Aside from that point, I agree with you totally.
elgato - December 10, 2009
And I'm sure you agree that he's not the only one not producing up to fan's expectations
So to me, the question is, is it worth dumping $21 million or see if year two is a rebound year?
Personally, I think Milton can and will hit. If there’s not a trade that approaches decent value, keep him.
I think it would go a long way to healing the fanbase if Milton apologized and said he’d try to keep a low profile, and
A clubhouse leader told the fans that certain reactions to Milton, or any other player, is completely unacceptable. No more hate mail, N word, and personal/family attacks for Milton or any other player in MLB. This fan behavior (even if it’s only a few fans) has been going on too long without the players addressing it publicly to the fans.
239 Brigade - December 10, 2009
You WILL get comments here pointing out that Milton is incapable of that.
Nobody can really know one way or the other, and unfortunately his history indicates that he keeps a low profile only when he is happy. I’m sure he could do otherwise, but compelling him to do so will be difficult.
Frankly, most people seem to think the team’s W’s / L’s are a result of Milton’s attitude. I think the exact opposite is probably true, and Milton plopped in the middle of the ‘08 team might have been entirely different. Plus, i think the L’s of last season weren’t any more his fault than anybody or anything else’s… but again, hard to prove.
Anyways, my point is this. Bringing MB back would be FAR more complicated than what you’ve outlined. It’d be a start, but there would need to be some organizational moves made to make MB and his fragile ego more comfortable. I’m sure some people will balk at this, but its really just keeping good care of your investment. At $20 million over two years, they need to get the dude some anger management, some media training, and perhaps a player or coach to be his buddy so that when he HAS to whine, hopefully he’ll have somebody to do it to that isn’t taking notes for tomorrow’s paper.
Dome’s got his own translator with him at all times. Is there a guy out there that MB loves who can translate between reality and MB?
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
that's an excellent question.
I wonder. Gerald Perry was supposed to be a sounding board, since he’d been with Milton in Oakland, but that fizzled. Ron Washington had him Oakland and Texas, but Texas doesn’t want him back, supposedly.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
I'm in agreement
Bringing back MB is complicated, no doubt. But there are reasons to believe he can be productive. I thought I read Jamarillo and him were close in Texas. Also, it seems he developed some sort of bond or mentee relationship with Billy Williams.
I believe in tipping points and to me, things started going south when Lou didn’t leave the dugout on the called third strike that led to Milton’s early season suspension. I think if Lou was backing up his player, arguing that ridiculous strike, things would’ve been different.
I think most on this board forget that Milton showed great restraint walking away from Lou on his POS comment. Wasn’t Milton’s quote something like “I have too much respect for you to respond to that remark”?
$21 million, and a player who’s had good success is too much to walk away from. I’m about to pony up a grand for my share of nights and weekends and will be upset if the Cubs give Milton away for nothing.
239 Brigade - December 10, 2009
I like you.
Well thought out, real English…. haven’t called Drew any names yet…
And yet only 21 comments in a year and a half?
Come back more!
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Big fan of your posting too
To quote the office, I think you’re part of “the coalition of reason”.
I lurked here for two years before my first post, it was just a line I didn’t want to cross. My own personal Cubs history includes:
- running away from home after the 1984 playoffs,
- booing Ryne Sandberg loudly for not running out a ground ball and them him retiring the next day (I still feel bad about that)
- Taking pictures at Wrigley on my wedding day in 08 at the moment they clinched their playoff birth
- Drinking beers with Tim Flannery (who hit the groundball to Leon, my favorite childhood player) last year on a neighborhood rooftop. It was a cathartic moment.
239 Brigade - December 10, 2009
Thanks!
Funny thing is, trying to be reasonable here will get you in as much or more trouble, because then BOTH sides are pissed you aren’t “with” them.
I lurked for a while as well, but eventually couldn’t resist the game threads… which i learned eventually to avoid like the plague anytime the team wasn’t winning.
That ’08 clinching game is one of my favorite all time Cubs memories as well… part of an epic day that started with watching the Hawkeyes at Merkles and ended with me passed out on the red line, sleeping completely through my stop at Clark and Division and having to feel VERY uncomfortable as i waited for a northbound train down at 95th to get me back home. Whoops!
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Yeah, we have a few things in common
Big Hawkeye fan as well. I was at the 1985 game Iowa #1 vs. Michigan #2 and pretty much committed to attending Iowa that day (when I was 8 years old).
I have a flight booked to Phoenix for the Fiesta bowl, but that didn’t quite work out. So, I’m going to reschedule for the Iowa/AZ game next September.
I avoid the game threads like the plague, they’re not worth the angst IMO.
239 Brigade - December 10, 2009
Hah!
I was so close to doing the same thing. Had the flights up and was fingering my credit card at one point, but something held me back. Glad i didn’t take the plunge… i would have been irrationally livid at the BCS for years to come.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
I wrote a strongly worded email to John Junker
JJ is head of the Fiesta Bowl. He was on the radio in Phoenix the next day saying he received a lot of email from the Hawkeye faithful.
Live and learn I guess.
Also, do people realize how bad Pat the Bat is? I don’t know a single Phillies fan who liked him.
I’ll look you up next time I have extra Cubs tickets. My stop is Clark/Division too, so we’re probably pretty close.
239 Brigade - December 10, 2009
I bet a lot of those complaints...
… were from the AZ / Iowa snowbirds who were excited at the prospect of having a Hawkeye game in their backyard. I know my grandmother had an inordinate amount of ill-informed opinions on the whole thing, and she generally wouldn’t care, so i have to believe some old folks she’s friends with down in AZ were in her ear about it.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Catch you later
I’ll check back when something actually happens, until then stay warm.
239 Brigade - December 10, 2009
Have a good one!
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Bradley to TB forthcoming per Bob Nightengale
Stop me if you’ve heard this before – MLB trade rumors reporting this as well.
BNightengale: #mlb #cubs Cubs officials say they are close to trading OF Milton Bradley, and all indications are that he'll be going to Tampa Bay.
6 minutes ago from web
Hawkeye Hellraiser - December 10, 2009
We should start a pool.
Man, I hope this one is right.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
I'm doing the "pee pee" dance.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Just for clarification
MLB Trade Rumors says their source says nothing new to report, while Nightengale is reporting the trade is close.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
How many...........
of you who have been ranting about not getting rid of him will then turn and criticize whatever trade is made? That’d be ironic………any bets on over/under?
jballgame - December 10, 2009
I won't.
Whatever they get, I’ll be happy with.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
This isn't about what we "get"....it's about what we "get rid of"
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
We know Al............
you’d probably be happy trading GameBoard for a bag of shit on your doorstep, lit on fire……….
jballgame - December 10, 2009
What's the difference?
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
o.0
drewishdrewid - December 10, 2009
Well, no.
But if it’s Burrell? Fine.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Can we set Burrell on fire if he makes trouble?
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
wow...........
that’s alot worse than hoping for injury………..where’s the drewishdrewid police?
jballgame - December 10, 2009
BIG difference.
Plus, there is a lot of context in play here. As discussed above, you can’t take somewhere between 90 and 98% of what SWL says seriously. :-)
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
You shoulda been here the season he only wrote on BCB in haikus.
Man that was hell.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
Haikus are easy
But sometimes they don’t make sense
Refrigerator
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I actually own the shirt.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
rec'd due to awesomeness
heine41 - December 10, 2009
God Bless Threadless
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
+1
Emelie - December 10, 2009
I still prefer Shirt.Woot
Schwa - December 10, 2009
the darkly hidden reality
Perhaps you’ll pardon me if I write this in a more personal vein than usual. I want to tell you about some personal perceptions of mine, primarily because as a concerned Cubs fan, I will forge ahead in my brave quest to find the inner strength to put an end to truculent, spleeny officialism. As this letter will make clear, Lord Santo S. Woodenlegs III contends that going through the motions of working is the same as working. Excuse me, but where exactly did this little factoid come from?
Lord Woodenlegs likes to posture as a guardian of virtue and manners. However, when it comes right down to it, what he is pushing is both self-absorbed and diabolic. I appreciate feedback and other people’s views on subjects. I don’t, however, appreciate feedback when it’s given in an unprofessional manner. To be blunt, Lord Woodenlegs somehow manages to get away with spreading lies (he is a spokesman for God), distortions (war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength), and misplaced idealism (the few of us who complain regularly about his politics are simply spoiling the party). However, when I try to respond in kind, I get censored faster than you can say “counterestablishment”. Lord Santo S. Woodenlegs III’s the earthly personification of Milton. So I give you this. I hope it helps.
eths - December 10, 2009
turn it green.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I have no idea what's going on here.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
Ronnie Cedeno?
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
They're simply...
…the delirious, churlish ramblings of someone who has no idea or appreciation of what he’s mocking.
eths - December 10, 2009
So are you saying we're trying to trade SWL to another blog?
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
milton bradley trade dump, keep bleed cubbie blue Santoswoodenlegs
eths - December 10, 2009
Careful with that...
If they were to “get” a contract like Wells or Silva, I would not be happy. As much as I want MB gone… I’d rather roll the dice on him if the contract in return were THAT bad.
Send him for Burrell and pay all the 2011. Done.
fsuapollo - December 10, 2009
if Nightengale is right ...
I bet this is pretty close to what will happen.
elgato - December 10, 2009
What if the return is Jose Guillen
and we have to take Carl Everett and Jeff Kent on as coaches, too?
DGU - December 10, 2009
GOOD! THIS TEAM NEEDS SOME FIRE AND ATTITUDE!
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Jurassic Carl is a great quote
Plus, he’s a winner.
Bill Potter - December 10, 2009
With due respect...
(and I realize we’ve been on opposite sides of this argument for a long time)…
But this sort of idea is ridiculous. There really is no trade that you feel would be a bad deal for the Cubs? Really?
The irrationality of the “dump-Bradley no matter what” crowd is mystifying to me. Then again, given that I have the same mindset as AndrewJStone, Drewishdruid and a few others, I’m aware I don’t have many friends here these days.
CubsWin!Oregon - December 10, 2009
as long as it's not Carlos Silva
I’m happy. I think. :)
elgato - December 10, 2009
I can't wait for this divorce to be final.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
Stop bringing Tiger up....stick to the subject.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Bradley Close to being dealt ?? (again)
http://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/6541168214
link
plenz - December 10, 2009
this dudes twitter background blows
heine41 - December 10, 2009
There, fixed that for ya.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
+ a bajizzillion
heine41 - December 10, 2009
Imagine
…how much the Rays must hate Burrell
leothelip - December 10, 2009
Cubs Fans what is up!!!!
Long time no talk! Been missing the best dysfunctional family on the interwebz
heine41 - December 10, 2009
You hit up that new Wendy's yet?
lswaidz - December 10, 2009
haha i havent
but i can tell everyone else in Pekin has….jeesh
How ya been?
heine41 - December 10, 2009
Good man, freezing today
I’ve been up there like 3 times and each time it was at least 30 minutes in line before I could even place my order… they had cops out there directing traffic the first 3 days since traffic was backed up on to Court. I think everyone forgot Avanti’s opened haha.
BTW, how about that Holiday Inn burning down? That was crazy.
lswaidz - December 10, 2009
well thats people for ya
I was just thinking about the holiday inn burning down driving past it today and how that might possibly be the biggest news story of the decade in our little bundle of joy
heine41 - December 10, 2009
Haven't missed anything.
It’s like a Seinfeld episode, absolutely nothing’s happened. Or changed. Drew likes Milton Bradley, SWL is writing in haikus again, and Northwestern is in a bowl game? Wait, what?
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
at least the Hawks are kick-ass
heine41 - December 10, 2009
nothing has changed
Drew still likes Milton Bradley
hippopotamus
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
and who do you like SWL?
heine41 - December 10, 2009
That redhead broad from Harry Potter
Excuse my use of the word broad.
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
Santos likes boobies
But not that boob Milton B
Go buy me some Pabst
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
my favorite guy
can play hard, fast and scrappy
colonoscopy
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Oh for all our sakes
We need some baseball action
Expelliarmus
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
up your butt jobu
jesus can’t hit a curveball
start a holy war
Craig in South Bend - December 10, 2009
Milton to Tampa
That’s what I want, and real soon
Snuffleupagus
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Get DeLorean
Stop Hendry’s drunk sailor bit
This shit is heavy
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
(Sorry, Al, but I had to stay true to the spirit of the movie...)
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
thousands of comments
arguing about Milton
HEAVY METAL RULEZ!
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Do letters count?
Not quite cursing but
GFY, U POS
Milton O. Bradley
PacificCub - December 10, 2009
Even better:
To Milton Bradley
Go f*** yourself, piece of s***
Love, Lou Piniella
PacificCub - December 10, 2009
changed Drew favorite fast comments arguing METAL
Bradley hippopotamus my METAL fast guy can RULEZ!
RULEZ! still comments arguing of and
changed Drew likes Milton hard, fast
likes guy can hard, scrappy colonoscopy thousands comments arguing
has changed Drew Milton guy can hard,
eths - December 10, 2009
DADA haiku!
Emelie - December 10, 2009
so is there any rhyme (ha ha) or reason behind DADA's textual formation?
Didn’t get any insight from the Wiki entry and that’s about the limit of my research efforts these days (besides COT’s, baseball reference, cubsbynumbers and IMDB).
I get that eths is using words germane to the issue at hand, but is that the only criteria? Or is there no criteria at all, and that’s the whole point of DADA.
ballhawk - December 10, 2009
A DADAistic answer would be: The destruction of criteria is the criteria...
Extremely short explanation: DADA was a reaction to the slaughter of WW I and the resulting disillusionment with modern civilization and culture.
Maybe these links will help:
Sir Linkalot
Lady Linkalot
eths - December 10, 2009
I wasn't asking about DADA itself
I have a vague notion of what it is based on previous knowledge and reading the Wiki entry.
Rather, I was asking about the writing style you were using in your DADA posts. Are there any generally accepted rules, guidelines, criteria, etc. similar to poetry, haikus, sonnets, etc? Or is the whole idea to not have any structure at all?
To put it another way… would your most recent DADA post still be considered DADA if it were all on one line? Or for that matter, if each word were its own line?
ballhawk - December 10, 2009
Bevor Dada da war, war Dada da
Yes there is an accepted principle and it it is: There are none. You don’t even have to use (real) words…
The above, if I am not mistaken, is by R. Hausmann (c. 1918)
KARAWANE by Hugo Ball (1917)
Now enough of this off topic stuff… Lets get back to moanin’ groanin’ and …
eths - December 10, 2009
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ballhawk - December 10, 2009
love love love this thread!
Emelie - December 10, 2009
Well done...
eths - December 11, 2009
Amid this discourse
Please make sure to remember
That Theriot sucks
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
ROFL
Emelie - December 10, 2009
Rec'd
chilango2 - December 10, 2009
Amongst your best work.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
ryan theriot
an above average shortstop
undeniable
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I miss Billy Buck
And Kong’s home runs (screw Mike Schmidt)
Barry Foote was fat
jdb-44 - December 10, 2009
Phil Nevin
Just read that Phil Nevin is going to be managing in the Tigers system – not someone I saw as a future manager.
WGNstatic - December 10, 2009
He's been managing in the Golden Baseball League
It’s an independent league. The Cubs signed Pitcher Austen Bibbens-Dirx out of that league (The Victoria Seals – my home town) and he had some success last year, I believe at AA.
Canadian Cubs Fan - December 10, 2009
Chicago Cubs Held Hostage: Day 4
and now we cut to our commentators:
Rush Limbaugh: Greetings thrill seekers. You know, sometimes I hate being right all the time, but you can’t deny that this is the sort of thing that happens when you allow big league players to think they are entitled to multi-year contracts.
Keith Olbermann: …and if there were any justice in the world, you Mr. Hendry, sir, would resign immediately! (insert pensive stare)
Michelle Caruso-Cabrera: (sorry, I wasn’t listening. I was distracted)
Dennis Miller: Look, man, if Hendry is held hostage by the Bradley thing much longer he’s gonna be a victim of the Stockholm Syndrome. Next time we see him won’t be Chicago or Indianapolis, It’ll be in Helsinki, discusing cognitive dissonance with Nils Bergerot.
davidalanu - December 10, 2009
The Cards still haven't made an offer to Matt Holliday.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
LOL
Mark Levin: Ehhh, let us go to Jim in Chicago, the great WLS. Go!
Jim: Yeah, hi Mark. Listen, why can’t you see that I, excuse me, Hendry was misled on the Bradley deal by—
MArk Levin: Ah, shut up! Get off the phone, you big dope!
Goodie1969 - December 10, 2009
If Bradley trade is close, it’s not to Rays.
drodd - December 10, 2009
Twitterers tweeting
Bradley gone! Then he’s staying!
No one really knows
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
repeating yourself
makes everyone think you’re nuts
repeating yourself
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
No repetition
Just my mistake in counting
Syllable number
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
No, you did repeat
SWL is right
Albus Dumbledore
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
I did repeat, yes
But then I did delete
Why? Because I can
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Bradley eternal
Will this madness ever end?
Drown sorrows in booze
yajohn - December 10, 2009
Had to reply here
Why? Because this seems to be
The thing to do now
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
make self be adversity, pain,
Our are day, thou any
are night hear burdened ourselves
are night be quiet hear
attempt must thou to ourselves
and the might win attempt
eths - December 10, 2009
Yellon is flexing
BCB authority
Respect it or else
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Do most haikus come
In at under a hundred
And 40? Tweet ’em.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Mists enshroud the truth
The future remains unknown
Wish we still had Pie
yajohn - December 10, 2009
@TheCubsInHaiku
One twitter-er worth the time
Give it a “follow”
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
I would like to see
All the breathless trade rumors
In this brief format
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
Maybe we should make
It a rule here that all M-
B talk be haiku
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
really?? Because there is another rumor out there saying he is
son of a nut cracker!
Chanman25 - December 10, 2009
Are the Cubs really this stupid?
At this point they are the joke of baseball. I’ll bet the other GMs are having a blast laughing away as Jim Hendry tries to trade Milton. Hendry still doesn’t get it- you ruined any trade value MB had when you suspended him. Now only one team wants to even talk to your silly ass about Milton, and only if you eat his entire 2011 contract.
Somehow Hendry thinks eating the entire 2011 salary isn’t necessary, who knows where that idea comes from. Bradley has zero value in the trade market, zero. The Rays are the only team even listening at this point and that is because they know they will be able to get Bradley to play for free in 2011 if they do trade for him. The only way this gets done is if Hendry sucks it up and agrees to eat the whole thing, that or just release Milton and get on with it.
It doesn’t help that Crane Kenney clown college is back open either. Who knows why that assclown is allowed anywhere near the baseball operations, but for some reason he is. Then he goes and opens his mouth about MB and how painful an experience it is. Um HELLO! Its painful because you are trying to trade him on one hand, but can’t STFU for 10 seconds about how much you hate him on the other hand. The rest of baseball isn’t stupid, there is zero reason to trade for Milton Bradley right now. The Cubs are going to have to bite the bullet soon and release him, at which point a team can pick him up for free. Its just a shame Jim Hendry hasn’t figured this out yet.
nji232 - December 10, 2009
Or, they should just eat the 2011 contract, already.
It’s clearly worth $12 million to get rid of him.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
exactly
If they would just agree to do that I’m sure this Rays deal would be done already. For some reason they can’t figure that out.
nji232 - December 10, 2009
It's worth that to YOU.
It clearly ISN’T to Hendry / Ricketts.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
I'm arguing that it SHOULD be.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Well, then... let me fix it for you.
It’s clearlyIn my opinion, it is worth $12 million to get rid of him.AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Isn't that what we usually do here?
State our opinions?
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
And then people reply to them?
Often with objections or differing opinions?
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
yes but they don't ALWAYS have to come across as grammar nazis
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
Grammar had nothing to do with it.
I missspell stuffs just as orften as erbody else.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
That's kind of inferred.
This is a blog. People write things. These things are frequently their opinions or thoughts.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
Isn't there a way to stop this sort of thing from happening? IT'S TEARING BCB APART!!!
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Tearing BCB
Apart? Good heavens, no way!
Don’t want that, ever.
Al Yellon - December 10, 2009
Thanks for clearing that up.
I wasn’t aware pointing out that the people running the team don’t seem to share the popular “OMG DITCH HIM TODAY AT ALL COSTS” opinion would generate so much angst! My bad.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Try to remember
Emotions of fans run high
It’s time to go home
Shanghai Badger - December 10, 2009
your advice....paraphrased.
taking an entirely reasonable comment and making it it’s most extreme cousin as a way to disprove it is bad form
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Good thing i didn't do that, then.
DTP’s comment wasn’t reasonable, it was snarky. I responded in kind. I’m sure he’ll bounce back.
Not trying to pick a fight here, i’m genuinely interested: Do you two know each other in real life? Were you friends before this site / are you friends outside of this site? It seems anytime somebody is against one of you on something, the other chimes in with a defense. Its maddening.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Our relationship is none of your business...
but he makes great waffles.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I had a little bet with myself before i hit "post".
I put it at 1 in 20 odds that you’d respond with anything useful. Welp…
Anyways, back to the original point…. it seems it isn’t as “clear” that its worth $12 million to ditch Bradley as Al stated. If it was crystal clear, it’d be done already. My pointing that out wasn’t meant to strike such a nerve, but frustrations are running high at this point, so my bad.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
well, it really isn't any of your business
You just spent a conversation with one of the other posters telling each other how right you both were. How is that NOT maddening, but other posters coming to SWL’s defense is?
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
You are a little late to the game...
… and seemingly missing the point of the conversation that just took place.
Not sure what your angle is.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
no, I can read. It's not like stepping into a verbal conversation
midway through.
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
I dunno...
…I sure felt like I was stepping in something after reading through this whole thread. ;-)
ballhawk - December 10, 2009
waffle...
♫♬♪♩♬ Yummy, Yummy, Yummy, I got love in my tummy ♫♫♪♩♩
♫♫♫♪♩ That your love can satisfy ♩♬♪♩♬
♩♬♫♫ Love, you’re such a sweet thing ♪♫♬♪♩♩
♪♩♬♫♬ Love, you’re such a sweet thing ♪♩♩♫♫
♫♩♬♫♫ Good enough to eat thing ♪♩♬♪♩
eths - December 10, 2009
I thought it was a silly thing to say on a blog that's all about opinions and thoughts.
And SWL & I have a soup club together. We get together and make soup.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
Not sure how it was silly.
Al stated something ‘was clear’. It isn’t so clear to me, and others.
Pointing that out is just as much the point of this blog as the original comment was, right?
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Dude it was a joke, and I wasn't being all that serious.
I’m sorry if it offended you. It’s gonna be a long off-season, I’m sure there will be plenty of banter.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
and plenty of soup.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
I wasn't insulted or offended.
Just sort of surprised that my comment was considered any less valid than the one it was in response to.
Granted, it may have been kind of obvious… but isn’t it obvious how Al feels about this whole thing too?
No harm done.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Would you like to join our Soup Club?
dtpollitt n SWL - December 10, 2009
No soup for you
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
More of a chilli guy, personally
Going to make a batch of white bean chicken chili tonight!
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
We love chili.
Yeah…we sure do, but you put too many onions in yours.
I do not…you always dumb too much sour cream in yours.
Shut up.
Make me.
Fine, the soup party tomorrow is OFF.
Allright, Ok…I’m sorry.
Well….look, I overreacted, we can still have the soup party.
Sweet.
dtpollitt n SWL - December 10, 2009
wow, that's disturbing
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
LOL.
dtpollitt - December 10, 2009
I have to fix something first... ;-)
eths - December 10, 2009
Hah! Hilarious.
Saving that to the hard drive for sure.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
If the Cubs want him gone as much as they keep (stupidly) saying they do
Then what they heck are they waiting for? With each passing day they get more desperate, they have been inventing rumors and leaking them to the media just to try and get any interest.
If they really want him gone then they need to understand the only way to make that happen is to eat the entire 2011 salary.
nji232 - December 10, 2009
Why do you assume they don't understand that?
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Because what do the reports keep saying about the deal
That they are too far apart on money to get the deal done.
nji232 - December 10, 2009
well, if they understood it, and were willing to do it, the deal would have been done monday
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
hey, we are close again to trading Bradley...again!!
Rotoworld:
Kill it!! Kill it please!!!
Chanman25 - December 10, 2009
oh
already posted above..sheesh this thread is too long
Chanman25 - December 10, 2009
WoW!
We could have Burrell AND Byrd?!?!?!
Who could object to that?
(Ducking)
The Jade Scorpion - December 10, 2009
Seriously.
Screw this off season’s angst and comment count. I’m excited for winter 2010!
We may have to open a psych ward for BCB’rs.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
Cubs officials keep saying this, and yet they never close the deal
I really don’t understand why they keep saying this crap. Do that not realize they’re just annoying a large population of their fanbase?
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
Not as long as the waiting list for season tickets is in the thousands.
santoswoodenlegs - December 10, 2009
Bradley saga continues
They won’t bring Bradley back because of the problems with team personnel. Fans and media would eat him alive too.
Hendry should know what the possibilities are for trading Bradley by now. If there isn’t any hope of getting salvage money, then it doesn’t pay to let him go for nothing now. They wouldn’t lose any more money by waiting for something to come along. Bradley might also get antsy and give-in some on his contract if that’s at all possible.
Unless Hendry knows he can trade to make more money available, he should look to round-out the roster with whatever funds he does have before viable free agent players are taken and before trade options, not involving Bradley, dry-up. Hendry has been impatient in the past, so nothing has to happen right away unless good opportunities are lost by waiting. Timing is important and he should have talked with enough potential Bradley suitors by now to know where things are at even if we don’t. I don’t see any possibilities of taking on a bad contract that adds payroll; I think it would have happened by now if the Cubs were open to that or saw some good in that – IMO.
AboutTheCubs - December 10, 2009
saw a note that Hendry was meeting with Ben Sheet's agent earlier today
of course Sheet’s agent is also Fontenot’s agent so it is probably in regards that scrappy cajun. I would love for us to at least kick the tires on Sheets though.
DC Cubbie - December 10, 2009
thought we got rid of Harden
all jokes aside, if we could get him cheap for around a 2 million deal why not give him a try?
Chanman25 - December 10, 2009
I highly doubt he'd come that cheap but
A deal slightly less than Harden could still be a steal
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
Good luck......
He’s seeking $12M per year.
jballgame - December 10, 2009
well then that's too much for a guy who sat out the entire 2008 season
Nunyabidness - December 10, 2009
How can you have any meat if you don't eat your pudding?
Jimmyeatworld - December 10, 2009
Simple.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
If you're not too tired of speculation, read on...
Could Jim Hendry package MB and turn that package into Michael Young? Young’s getting paid 16 M for the next four years, so the money doesn’t match exactly, but with Lowell nearly acquired, does TX really plan to splite 1B between Lowell and C. Davis?
So, we’re taking on significant payroll, but we can actually play Young at 2B where he’s much closer to earning that pay. If you’re assuming MB’s 21 M is a sunk cost, Young at 2/11 for 2010-2011 makes sense. It’s the next two years when we’ll have prospects ready to play at Middle IF that are a kicker. But this may be the least bad result?
DGU - December 10, 2009
...
eths - December 10, 2009
Just for the sake of argument
What would Texas want from us in the package?
Snake Plisskin - December 10, 2009
It depends on what they think of Young
whose contract and skills at 3B are not good. They’ve got the middle IF locked down with Andrus and Kinsler. They probably want to move on from Young even more than we want to move on from Soriano.
DGU - December 10, 2009
It wouldn't suck
But I doubt it will happen.
Snake Plisskin - December 10, 2009
I'll play along.
Cubs trade: Milton Bradley, maybe a young bullpen arm?
Rangers trade: Michael Young, 6 million dollars?
Swap contracts but the only issue would be having Young for longer than we would Bradley.. but that’s why the Rangers would do the deal.
Unique - December 10, 2009
Exactly
Maybe
Bradley + Soto
Young + Salty
?
DGU - December 10, 2009
Better than a lot of what we've seen so far...
… but he’s 33. Long term, this isn’t a good idea.
AndrewJStone - December 10, 2009
OT: Top 10 Prospects
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/chicago-cubs-top-10-prospects
Andronicus - December 10, 2009
Nine hundert and first!
eths - December 10, 2009
LAST!
digitalbenjamin - December 10, 2009
No!
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
DOH!
digitalbenjamin - December 10, 2009
Still not
gaclaudy - December 10, 2009
has to be a way to
get a 3 team deal going with Texas and the Red Sox..
cozmotaylor123 - December 10, 2009
Word is bradley is being traded to the cubs for soriano
jesus christos - December 10, 2009
We eat too much money in that deal.
Pat19 - December 10, 2009
Lets add hoff to the deal to sweeten it
jesus christos - December 10, 2009
I want PV
Pat19 - December 10, 2009
we are gonna have to throw in atleast fox in a deal for PV
oh wait that IDIOT HENDRY TRADED THE GREATEST BENCH PLAYER EVER
jesus christos - December 10, 2009
adn not 4 LIND!!!1!
Pat19 - December 10, 2009
Red Sox Completing Deal to Trade Lowell to Rangers
Sir Linkalot
Lady LinkalotDoes Lowell trade eliminate Red Sox from Bradley derby?
eths - December 11, 2009
This thread is
eths - December 11, 2009
LAST!
digitalbenjamin - December 11, 2009
you say you are last
and yet I’m able to post.
Judges, make the call
ballhawk - December 11, 2009
upon the review
it appears that ben was last
i’m sorry ballhawk
santoswoodenlegs - December 11, 2009
of course you’d say that
seeing as you’re stricken with
russian judge syndrome
ballhawk - December 11, 2009
no one can be last
until i, as site leader
say that it is so
Al Yellon - December 11, 2009
Jean-Luc, is that you?
Captain’s prerogative wins.
Ensign, make it so.
ballhawk - December 11, 2009
Let the Judge make the call.
What say ye CHUCK NORRIS???
digitalbenjamin - December 15, 2009
Chuck approves? So what?
Only words that have meaning
are spoken by Ted.
ballhawk - December 15, 2009
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