Sources confirm Milton Bradley headed to Mariners for Carlos Silva -- merry christmas #cubs fans
Well. Clearly, Carlos Silva has been one of the worst pitchers in baseball the last two years. This is not a deal you'd make in a vacuum, and unless Silva has a previously undisclosed injury or some sort of massive mechanical problem, the Cubs won't get any decent production out of him.
However, I ask you to remember what happened seven years ago, when Todd Hundley "had" to be traded under similar (though certainly not identical) circumstances, and Jim Hendry turned him into Eric Karros and Mark Grudzielanek.
Karros had just come off two really poor years and a lot of Cubs fans wondered, "What do we want with him? We have Hee Seop Choi ready to take over 1B." Grudzielanek was similarly awful in 2002, posting a Neifi-like .665 OPS.
Yet by the end of the 2003 season, both of these players had played significant roles in the NL Central championship season, and Karros is still remembered fondly by Cubs fans for the full-page ad he took out in the Tribune thanking all of us for his memorable season.
Let's wait and see. For me, I'm happy that Jim Hendry managed to fix his mistake from a year ago, albeit at a high (for now) dollar cost. Maybe Carlos Silva will reclaim what he had in Minnesota and be worth the contract.
Next stop: signing a CF.
0 recs | 1009 comments
bye Milton
drodd - December 18, 2009
Why should there be a park on the land west of Wrigley Field?
Isn’t Lincoln Park big enough?
RiskyBusiness - December 18, 2009
And not only that...
… the Cubs own the land and they’re going to build the triangle building on it. A park will never happen.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Sorry Al
the land was traded to Seattle in the Bradley trade ;)
RiskyBusiness - December 18, 2009
LOL
What are the Mariners going to build there?
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Rain Forest Cafe
And it rains on you during your meal, of course.
RiskyBusiness - December 18, 2009
Agreed
Fat chance getting that petition signed by the masses on BCB.
StevenABQ - December 18, 2009
He wasn't good in Minnesota though...
Flip him, flip him, flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him. Please Jimbo.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
to who?
who on earth WANTS Carlos Silva?
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
Cubs apparently
ak123 - December 18, 2009
Al if he gets Milton dumped.
Horrific move.
Doggie Stalker - December 18, 2009
agree, disgraceful work by Jim Hendry
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
For...
Peavy/Roberts/Lind?!?!
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
Hendry picked up a player more difficult to trade than Bradley
Flipping will be really really improbable. I’d just plan on the Cubs being stuck with him for two years.
Qixotl - December 18, 2009
He was bad in 2006
But outside in 2004, 2005, and 2007 he was a 4.10 ERA or so guy. That’s pretty decent.
I’m not saying he’ll do that here, but he was solid for Minnesota
IllinoisCubs - December 18, 2009
he had a decent ERA
with terrible peripheral stats. So he still sucked
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
Great, he was a bad pitcher on a spreadsheet.
At worst, if he is healthy he can be an inning-eater. The Cubs can use one of those.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
The Cubs have innings eaters
They make $400,000 a year and pitch for Ryne Sandberg
dr stabbingworth - December 18, 2009
Rec'd
BWoodrum - December 18, 2009
It's hard to
eat innings when you give up alot of runs Al. And he was a bad pitcher on a spreadsheet, on the field whatever way you want to look at it.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
Does that mean he will suck in 2010?
We do not know that yet. He was hurt much of 2009.
Look, I realize this isn’t an ideal trade. There wasn’t going to be one for Bradley, no matter who came here.
I refer you again to the reaction to the Hundley deal seven years ago — which was just about the same as this reaction. Virtually everyone thought Karros and Grudzielanek were useless and would suck.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
scrap him instead of trade for c rap
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
again
its not just about Silvia the player. Its Silva the contract.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
I'm annoyed that you are so willing to believe that Silva could turn it around in 2010...
… when you so brazenly insisted Bradley couldn’t do the same.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
I didn't say he couldn't.
I just didn’t want him on the team no matter what he did.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
You DID say he couldn't. Repeatedly.
Over and over, you said there was “no chance” 2010 could go smoothly with MB on the team.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
I was referring to his being able to get along with players, fans & media.
Not his statistical performance.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I guess i'm just not scared of a little media circus.
Then again, i don’t read the papers, i never listen to the radio, and i don’t have cable TV. I tune that crap out and just… watch the game.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
And comment here.
You don’t have cable? Then you miss half the games.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Touche
tville - December 18, 2009
Cable isn't the only way to catch the games.
I’ve got a little piece of silicone, metal and glass in my pocket that puts each and every one of the games in my ears for the price of a $10 app.
I also have worked out various… ahem… shenanigans on the internet so that i can stream / download any games i do happen to miss.
I can see the cubs without buying in to the media circus everyone here feared so deeply. Tune it out, and its not such a big deal. I prefer to pay attention to what i see on the field over what the fools in the paper or on Around The Horn have to say.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Media circus isn't too bad
Not getting along with fellow players or the fans is.
cocknfire - December 18, 2009
Players, maybe...
… and it was debated how poorly they actually got along with him. By most accounts, dude was a loner, but not fighting with guys or anything.
Fans? Who cares? Bicker back and forth as much as either side wants, as long as it doesn’t affect the on-field performance.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
ayup.
and so now, Hendry, who apparently didn’t have enough money, has traded for a MORE EXPENSIVE, WORSE player.
Way to go. The Cubs just became a worse team. All because of bruised egos. Awesome.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
When I had that conversation with you on here a little bit ago
I never imagined this. You are 100% spot on.
Craig in South Bend - December 18, 2009
what did you imagine? :D
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
I agree with you Drew, but
that’s only the case if the Cubs would even consider bringing back Bradley.
I thought they burned that bridge so well, they could never bring him back. For that, I blame Hendry not Bradley.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
#3
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
what are you counting
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
we're getting money back
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
which is what makes this deal
only mostly sucky, instead of completely sucky.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Agreed
What else could have been done? If Bradley would have been cut the Cubs would have still eaten the contract. Silva could very well be horible but at least we can now move on.
Maybe Silva can be good. We should all hope for the best and give the guy a chance. It may be the best move of the year?
mudd - December 18, 2009
This is so far beyond not
ideal. This is ridiculous, amateurish, and frankly, a big fat cop out by the Cubs organization. It doesn’t take much to see why this organization doesn’t win. Real franchises admit their mistakes in these instances, eat the contract, and get something useful in return, so that they can get back to the business of winning. The Cubs hem and haw for months on bad trade offers, then settle for Carlos Silva. Why? Because the don’t want to/can’t come out of pocket with cash.
It’s shameful.
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
Admit a mistake, yes.
But did you really think they could “get something useful in return”? Pat Burrell, I assume you’re referring to him when you say that. Burrell sucked last year. Could he be better? Sure. So could Silva.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
burrell before 2009 was atleast decent
silva wasnt
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
bingo.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
Silva had a decent year in 2007.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
i wouldnt consider 229 hits in 202 innings "decent"
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
1.31 WHIP.
SIlva, at least, doesn’t issue many walks.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
nor does
he strike anyone out. ever.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
As you likely know...
… strikeouts aren’t necessarily the most important thing for a pitcher.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Let me ask you a question Al.
What might your reaction have been on Silva if the Cubs had TODAY 1) signed him in free agency, 2) traded for him in a deal that didn’t involve Bradley, or 3) picked him up on the waiver wire?
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
Of course, I'd have been upset.
This deal didn’t happen in a vacuum. Do I think Silva is good? No, of course not.
But now he’s a Cub. I have to at least hope he’ll improve.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
No, you don't
You can acknowledge the facts surrounding a player – especially one this bad – while at the same timing hoping for the best for this team in general.
This is simply an indefensible acquisition, and I’m a bit shocked that you’re trying to defend it, actually. Carlos Silva would be lucky to get a minor-league invite today on the open market. That makes him worth less than nothing, as the Cubs will commit a roster spot to him for at least the next season, so as to save face.
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
The positive thing about this is the subtraction of Bradley and the feeing up of some $ for a CF.
Silva is just the means, not the end.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
But this isn't the open market.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Don't be.
Some here, Al included, would have justified trading him for a big stinky turd making $100,000,000 over the next 5 years. “AT ALL COSTS!” they proclaimed. And it was so.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Yeah, that totally would have happened
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
I want to know
….who signed said stinky turd to a $100,000,000 contract in the first place?
LOL
The Jade Scorpion - December 18, 2009
That sounds like something the Mets would do.
:)
CubsWin!Oregon - December 18, 2009
Perhaps they aqquired said million dollar turd...
… from the cubs!
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Yeah, but he needs to improve to get to bad
I rather have seen the Cubs get a couple of million bucks and “a player to be named later” than a bad pitcher they still won’t cut because they owe him salary.
I want to build a time machine, go back to October 2008, and fire Hendry then….
ClarkFan - December 18, 2009
yes, they are
vivaelpujols - December 18, 2009
What part of the fact that
Silva has never been good are you having trouble with? He was serviceable in 2007 – a contract year, by the way — but past that has always been a guy who relied on a superior defense to even be remotely effective, which even then he rarely was.
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
I'd take serviceable.
Look, I know Silva has sucked for two years. Horrendous. Would I have acquired him under ANY other circumstance? Of course not.
I’m willing to wait & see.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I hear you, but Silva has a new start with the
Cubs and Bradley was done. Cash+Silva is better than cutting Bradley.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
Agreed.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
After the $$$ is confirmed, you need a poll.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
I'll do that.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Bradley also had a new start
just sayin’
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
bradley 2010
OPS+ 120 or higher
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
Damn, and we still aren't remotely close to superior defense
No center fielder, a charmingly erratic left fielder, and OK not great at 2B and SS.
ClarkFan - December 18, 2009
doesn't matter.
We had a problem in MB, we still have a problem in Silva. Only this is a less radioactive problem. That’s improvement
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
An effective inning eaters still doesnt have an ERA over 6
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
rec'd
elgato - December 18, 2009
Me too
n/t
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
Turn that green if you want, but...
… Jason Marquis posted an ERA over 6 in 2006. The Cubs signed him — yes, I know, to an over-market-value deal — and he was exactly that, an effective inning eater, for two years.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
No,
He was a bad pitcher, period. And as a someone who pitches to contact, he’ll only get worse with Theriot and likely Jeff Baker behind him, and a bevy of smaller parks in the NL Central to deal with.
This. Is. Awful.
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
Dave Duncan
would turn Silva into a good pitcher…. In 2008 i hoped i was right in 2010 i hope i’m wrong.
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
No, at best he can be an innings-eater
At worst, he can be the worst pitcher in baseball like he’s been the last two years. Unless the Cubs are getting money back from Seattle, they’d have been better off releasing Bradley.
Big D - December 18, 2009
Yep...
n/t
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
Al, I'm glad to see Milton gone too,
but C’mon, he won’t be an “innings eater” he’ll probably be David Pattoned.
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
Depends on how he does in spring training.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Depends on how he does in spring training.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
There will be no CF
we gained zero payroll flexibility from this move. None. In fact Silva makes a little bit more in the next two years than Bradley does. An outright release would have gained the club more value than this.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
There will be no CF?
The Cubs aren’t going to have a center fielder next year?
Wow, talk about knee-jerk.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Not one that matters
Where is the $ coming from Al? We have less money after this trade than we did before, which is the exact reason we lost Mike Cameron.
Get ready for some kind of horrible choice between Posednik, Ankiel, Colvin or Sam Fuld.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
We have to pick up Ankiel
Everyone knows the Cubs love St. Louis’ sloppy seconds.
Mike Martin - December 18, 2009
Why is Fuld a bad choice?
A career .282/.403/.388 stat line is nothing to sneeze at. his minor leage stats have been decent as well.
Qixotl - December 18, 2009
yeah
it kind of is. He is a decent backup OF. That’s it.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
A Fuld/Johnson platoon wouldn't be the worst solution.
At least it might leave some money for midseason acquisitions.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
do not want
elgato - December 18, 2009
what DO you want?
Because clearly, Hendry has severely limited our options
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
I would take Marlon Byrd
over those two. I think Reed Johnson’s value is seriously inflated in the minds of some BCBers, and I don’t want Sam Fuld getting 400 at-bats (as the part of the platoon that faces right handers).
Depending on the health of his shoulder AND his contract demands, I’d also be interested in Ankiel.
elgato - December 18, 2009
Agreed
Since we didn’t get Cameron, that’s not a bad option
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
sweet
I’m really liking the outlook on next year..loooks so wonderful
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
And your outlook...
With Bradley was positive and optimistic?
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
if you were expecting this to be a great offseason
well, I don’t know what to tell you. Hendry absolutely screwed this team up.
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
Hendry
I don’t know how you can make this statement. I don’t have the time nor patience to go through the building of the Cubs in 2007 and 2008 but I know for sure that even though they didn’t win the World Series that Hendry did as much as he could to put the Cubs in position to win. I don’t think Hendry could have done so without doing some of the things that “absolutely screwed this team up”.
Did Hendry have the supporting staff to continue building a Cubs farm system while still putting together the best team in MLB 2008? No.
Did he have to overpay for Sori to get us in the playoffs 07 08? maybe
Did he sign the player with the highest OPS+ in the AL thereby showing a willingness to help the team by getting a talented player and secure a position that has become the new 3B for the Cubs?
yes did that work no
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
Defensively, yes.
But offensively no thanks.
tripdenten - December 18, 2009
Oh
I totally agree. On a veteran team with a window closing we should definitely be happy with a platoon of Reed Johnson and Sam Fuld. Because thats the kind of talent big market teams roll out when they want to contend.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
seriously?
the expectations of this team have dropped then
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
Nice to see a major market team reduced
to “not the worst” solutions.
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
thank you Jim Hendry
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
I disagree.
Platoon him with a decent RH hitter and put him near the top of the order so that his high OBP leads to baserunners for Lee and Ramirez and then he certainly has value. He will be cheap as well.
Qixotl - December 18, 2009
So, you
really think that that giving Sam Fuld 400 at-bats next season really makes the Cubs a better ballclub?
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
It is possible but not likely
and remember folks I follow him closer than anyone
FYI did not play yesterday in Venezeula but on Wed he was 1-3 with a triple, two walks one run and one RBI and our old friend Ronnie Cedeno was 2-3 with a homer but also a caught stealing and an error.Some things never change.
Doggie Stalker - December 18, 2009
well since you follow him more closely, I'll ask you the same thing I asked CalCalender
Can’t be his numbers… they’re pretty good, albeit small sample size. What else tells you that Fuld is limited to backup OF ceiling.
ballhawk - December 18, 2009
the fact that his numbers aren't eye-popping in the minors for one
and the fact that he doesn’t do anything exceptionally, for another.
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
His minor league numbers are OK but the only time he was
breakout was AFL & Venezeula. Also given his laying out for anything fielding style he has been injured more than few times which is why he is getting his shot relatively late. He is pretty bad at hitting righties so at BEST he can platoon. I mean if it were up to me I would sell to hell with it, with his fielding and patience at the plate, let him hit .250 but I kind of doubt Lou, Hendry etc feel that way. Fuld is a terrific player to have on the bench and he deserves two or so starts per week but counting on him to be an everyday CF would be very bad planning. I am sure that is not the Cubs plan and I am sure Fuld does not expect it unless there is an injury. Right now the guy is just trying to make sure he makes the team. I would LOVE, LOVE to be wrong and find out he can play 150 games and hit .299 while crashing into brick walls and metal fences but I just wouldn’t make that the pre-season plan.
Doggie Stalker - December 18, 2009
you say "that's it" based on what?
Can’t be his numbers… they’re pretty good, albeit small sample size. What else tells you that Fuld is limited to backup OF ceiling.
ballhawk - December 18, 2009
It's really hard for hitters without any power to sustain an OBP that high.
Typically contact hitters without much power gain a high OBP through great plate discipline — they don’t strike out much, walk a lot, and enough of their balls in play drop for hits that they do OK. The trouble is it’s really tough for them to sustain the walk rate necessary to have a really good OBP if they can’t scare pitchers into nibbling the corners.
Thus it’s quite rare to find hitters without much power that can sustain a high OBP — Rickey Henderson and Tim Raines are the prototypes; one is in the Hall and the other should be and will be once enough weak-minded old people die (and are replaced by weak-minded young people that slavishly admire Raines’ ability to avoid outs both at the plate and the basepaths). But I digress. A no-power guy putting up a high OBP is really pretty unusual. Sometimes a guy does it for a year and then can’t do it again (see Theriot, 2008), but that doesn’t mean it’s wise to expect a player without special skills to do it in any given year.
Statistically the red flags that stick out for Fuld specifically are that his BABIP and walk rate are both higher in his limited major-league time than they’ve typically been in the minors. I have a hard time seeing those things continue. So Fuld’s OBP will probably drop from it’s exceptional current level of around .400 to around .350 in a good year. Bill James projects .347 and a slight improvement in power… in total 1.3 runs below average in just 130 plate appearances; Bill James has been quite optimistic on lots of young hitters this offseason, and I think this is a somewhat optimistic projection though I don’t have a lot of evidence. Anyway, you’re looking at about -7 hitting runs given a full season of plate-appearances, assuming he can play at that level all year. If he’s a league-average CF that makes him something like a league-average player. But it’s unknown whether he could keep up that level of performance all year.
aldimond - December 18, 2009
we don't know what the money is yet
Sounds like they are still working out the details. breathe…
madtown - December 18, 2009
we don't know all the details yet ...
I’m hoping that the Mariners agreed to send the Cubs several million — enough to help get another bat.
elgato - December 18, 2009
lets hope
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
If the numbers in the AP stories are correct, the Cubs saved about $5M
Silva was owed $25M, and the Mariners sent the Cubs $9M. Effectively, all the savings are in 2010, when Silve is owed $11.5M and Bradley $9M, so the Cubs get a net of $6.5M, maybe enough for a B-grade CF. In 2011, there is a net loss, as Silve will cost $13.5M (same salary plus a $2M buyout of 2012) vs. Bradley’s $12M. Just another Hendry move pusing his costs into the future – fire him now before he has $160M committed for 2012….
ClarkFan - December 18, 2009
Who wants to go to Seattle...
…for the interleague game to heckle him?!
cubswynn - December 18, 2009
Now that's a real Cub fan
And an example of what’s wrong with Cub fans and why players don’t want to play for the Cubs. Good job, have another Old Style.
bubbamike the one and only - December 18, 2009
LOL
Great post.
I think the fans are doing more to ruin my Cubs experience than the actual Cubs are, which is saying something.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
I agree completely
jthack - December 18, 2009
Me too.
I wanted MB to come back to see what he could do (barring a decent trade), but I knew a number of bone-head fans wouldn’t give him a chance.
DMCub - December 18, 2009
rec'd
BWoodrum - December 18, 2009
funny...
i actually agree with you and my guess is you crowd me in the group who ruins it for you
since 2003 this fan base has acted like a rabid pack of hyenas
DartmouthCubsFan - December 18, 2009
You don't ruin it for me, DCF
You know your stuff, we just don’t agree often.
But I’m absolutely with you on your second sentence.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
rec'd
for the comment that we are all a bunch of rabid hyenas
hansman1982 - December 18, 2009
Sadly, it's true.
Had we gotten those five damned outs, that would never have happened.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
oh god..
you may need an overflow thread for that now, thanks for bringing it up
hansman1982 - December 18, 2009
2003
Do you think that the Cubs fandom would have taken that one World Series victory and set back and been satisfied?
It could be argued that 2003 invigorated a fan base that had grown accustomed to the tag “lovable losers” and began to expect … demand … more?
Don’t get me wrong I get annoyed by some of the relentless pounding from fans that is handed out to management and criticism bestowed on players who were the best alternatives available at the time because they aren’t superstars (and weren’t when signed). All that said a WS win in 2003 wouldn’t have stymied alot of the ramped up expectations going forward.
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
This is spot on
I’ve been a Cubs fan my whole life, haven’t always been as in depth as I am now, but have always been a Cubs fan. That said, it pisses the love out of me when wherever I go have to defend Cubs’ fans to jackasses who love taking shots as us. Then one day I realized that they aren’t taking shots at Cubs’ fans. They are taking shots at the drunken mindless idiots who follow the Cubs because it gives them excuse to be drunken mindless idiots.
AAAAGRRrrghh. Sorry, rant over.
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
I think you're inability to see sarcasm might better illustrate "what's wrong with Cubs fans"
that, and you have not Bruce Froemming agreeing with you.
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
Ugh
I hope nobody here is that petty
dr stabbingworth - December 18, 2009
You must not be familiar with new Cubdom.
Welcome.
Mike Martin - December 18, 2009
GOD YES
I’ll give him a racist comment to complain about….
KIDDING
Seriously though, I’m in
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
I want to go to Seattle
to see a really well-run, exciting young team play :-(
mykalmorgan - December 18, 2009
in seattle???
Where Triples Go to Die - December 18, 2009
That team will be much improved next year
and they were better than us this year, so……..yes
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
"a really well-run,"
you mean the team that traded 5 prospects for Erik Bedard, signed Carols Silva, fell for Beltre’s 50 HR season, and traded away 2 pretty good prospects for 1 year of Cliff Lee? That really well-run team?
Where Triples Go to Die - December 18, 2009
as you probably know
the people that run that team recently changed. of the transactions you mention, only the cliff lee deal was made by the current management. and current management, by most reviews, has been doing a heck of a job so far.
nycbirdo - December 18, 2009
And then fired the GM who signed Bedard and Silve
Trading two prospects for Lee doesn’t seem like a bad deal at all. They were, after all, just prospects which mean the net projection is about 1/2 of a major league player between the two of them.
ClarkFan - December 18, 2009
um
No offense man, but do you have ANY idea what you’re talking about?
That was all Bavasi and co. The new Mariners front office is light and day compared to Bavasi.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
And the Lee trade has been roundly pinned as the best deal for the M;s.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
Cliff Lee and Felix give them
two #1 pitchers. Chone Figgens will be an improvement on Beltre. Jack Z is doing a great job rebuilding what Bavasi destroyed. So Hendry is trading one of his mistakes for one of Bavasi’s mistakes. Only Seattle doesn’t have the rabid press and fan culture of Chicago and Milton may have a chance of having a good year there.
Seattle may not be a contender but they will be improved in year two of jack Z and Don W.
bubbamike the one and only - December 18, 2009
I wouldn't bother.
He’s an ex-Cub now. Done & gone.
He’ll get more negative reaction when he comes to Chicago to play the White Sox.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I might go to that game
I’ll admit I’m a little too emotional when it comes to these things but the guy said terrible things about a team I love and I refuse to let that go by without retaliation. I know I can’t really do anything as a fan, but I can still hate the guy and yell at him
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
not to be mean ...
but don’t you have anything better to do?
elgato - December 18, 2009
Sure
I’m just saying if I’m given a chance at tickets, I wouldn’t turn them down. I won’t go out of my way to get them, but if they’re available, I’ll take my chance.
Look I realize my stance is extremely biased and insane. But it would make me feel better, at least about last year. As a Chicago sports fan, I’ve had very little to be happy about in the past few years. I’m not much for hockey. So this would sort of be me taking my anger out
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
and on someone
who isn’t responsible for what you’re not happy about.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
I'd say he is
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
and you'd be wrong.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
+1
Milton was a small factor of why we lost the division by 7.5 games. Convincing yourself of anything other than that is fairly ludicrous.
madcow256 - December 18, 2009
i'd say you'd be proving his comments correct
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
No kittens to kick?
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
Absolutely absurd
You hate him? He didn’t fit with the club and now he’s gone. Grow up.
dr stabbingworth - December 18, 2009
I'm allowed to do what I want to do
I’m not encouraging others to do it. If I want to yell and scream, allow me to do it. When I spill a beer on you or keep you from enjoying the game, I’ll stop
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
Johnny Macchione
is that you?
Where Triples Go to Die - December 18, 2009
Hahaha
The guy said that Cubs fans are too negative, so you want to prove him wrong by flying to Seattle and heckling him.
Wreckard - December 18, 2009
No, I'm commenting on when he said
That he wasn’t surprised that it’s been a century
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
Wait, you're willing to fly out there and heckle him and you don't even remember what he said?
Wreckard - December 18, 2009
Yeah...
… any cubs fan that goes out of his way to be a dick to MB now is basically proving MB’s very point.
Don’t be that guy.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
JFTR...
… I would never do anything like that. MB is gone. His time as a Cub is over. I’m moving on.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I would assume you'd be above that. No worries.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
you're talking about a man
who was just traded for SILVA.
Maybe you want to dial down the irony? Magnets can hit pretty hard.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Oh wow, yeah
That’s worth a plane ticket. You’ll show him.
DamonBerryhillsMitt - December 18, 2009
I'm not surprised it's been a century either
Please don’t come to Wyoming to heckle me (it’s expensive to fly here and kind of dangerous to drive over the mountains this time of year) and you wouldn’t really get much of a reaction.
Actually I did a back-of-the-napkin analysis (here back-of-the-napkin means I used baseball-reference.com and xcalc) of this and decided that from the start of the “curse” through WWII or so the Cubs were somewhat unlucky not to win a World Series. From that point until the present they’ve mostly been a really poorly run team that’s given itself few opportunities to succeed; that combined with expansion makes them hardly unlucky at all.
aldimond - December 18, 2009
who knows, maybe hell think theyre seattle fans
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
Exactly.
Anyone have any alanis pictures? Maybe with her hand in her pocket?
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
Won't have to do that
Seattle will dump him midseason and he wil get picked up by an NL team.
Worf - December 18, 2009
St. Louis or Milwaukee? ;-)
ballhawk - December 18, 2009
Cincy
Baker lurves him some race-baiters.
Worf - December 18, 2009
Dusty was smart enough to pass on MB a few years ago
If you can believe it.
elgato - December 18, 2009
Yeah, but that was before he called Chicago a racist city
That’s right in Baker’s wheelhouse.
Worf - December 18, 2009
it was after MB called an LA Times reporter an Uncle Tom
Anyway, I don’t think Dusty wants race baiters. He’s a dumb manager, but there are some criticisms that aren’t really fair.
elgato - December 18, 2009
Rec'd
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
well, MB does have a high OBCP...
Dusty should like that.
ballhawk - December 18, 2009
Racist!
/sarcasm.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
I was kidding folks.
Just thought it was funny that we will, in fact, play against him this year. At least we’re scheduled to…
cubswynn - December 18, 2009
Leave it to some here to over-react
Mapmaker - December 18, 2009
Wow! That's so middle schoolish.
sue369 - December 18, 2009
Mrs. Zeke already planned to go the games in Seattle and visit her sister.
In that order…
Zeke - December 18, 2009
Does that mean Milton Bradley won't be at the Cubs Convention?
I guess Richie Hebner will have to settle for shortest line for an autograph this year :(
ak123 - December 18, 2009
Put away the tomatoes and eggs kids. You won't be needing them.
Zeke - December 18, 2009
chances are Costco
will stop carrying them… just in case
Emelie - December 18, 2009
Wow. Thank god Costco didn't overreact...
much…
Zeke - December 18, 2009
So today's the day we break the Internet, huh?
Get at it boys.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
Man...
And I had work to do, oh well.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
Al Gore can fix it!
Zeke - December 18, 2009
Nah
He’ll just invent something better.
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
Ok Al you are the Happy ONE
The dump Milton at all costs one. If the Cubs are actually paying Silva three million MORE this is beyond INSANE. Per post in other thread this deal is WORSE than signing Bradley in the first place.
Doggie Stalker - December 18, 2009
Disagree for one reason
Silva can only do damage every 5 days. Bradley potentially could ever at-bat.
ak123 - December 18, 2009
yeah like all those AB's
where he got on base last year. really damaged the club.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
+1
DMCub - December 18, 2009
I know your stance
So there’s no reason to debate anything with you regarding Bradley. I’m glad he’s gone and I don’t care who replaces him.
ak123 - December 18, 2009
good for you.
glad you put your personal distaste for certain players over the Cubs. Maybe we should rename the team the “AK123 Approved Baseball Club”.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
He's entitled to his opinion.
As are you.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Here's a thought
When I respond to someone elses post, don’t respond to mine. If I actually cared what you actually wrote I’d respond or bother to read your posts.
But all you seem to do is attack people who don’t agree with you. And people like that are as big of a cancer on BCB as Bradley was to the Cubs.
ak123 - December 18, 2009
I see people posting this type of comment occasionally.
I just wanted to mention that this entire thread and site is a collective conversation of BCB members. You’re free to have a private conversation but that’s not what this venue is all about.
If you don’t want people to engage you in conversation or only want to have a conversation with a particular member, feel free to do so in a private environment. BCB is simply not that type of venue.
cowsarecool220 - December 18, 2009
Really?
I had no idea since I’ve been active on here for 3 years.
My problem is this person has attacked my posts with no warrant in the past and I’m not interested in engaging in conversations with someone who goes out of his way to be that way. That’s not why I come to BCB.
ak123 - December 18, 2009
You might try using Twitter.
That way you can choose who to follow and who can follow you.
cowsarecool220 - December 18, 2009
You're missing the point
Calcalender has been rude to me in the past. He’s made obnoxious comments such as “you’re not a smart enough Cubs fan to be here”, and other things like that. And today I wasn’t going to have that debate again. That’s why I said what I said.
I don’t need twitter or any other social network to discuss the Cubs. I just choose to not have conversations with that one person.
ak123 - December 18, 2009
In other words,
You posted a note to someone to say that you were ignoring him . . . .
Shanghai Badger - December 19, 2009
Its always nice to be FYI'd on something of that nature.
:-)
AndrewJStone - December 19, 2009
Not at first
Originally I stated that I knew his stance and didn’t want to argue on here over our opposing sides. He of course didn’t stop so I made it clear I wasn’t going to do one of these ridiculous arguments on BCB. Which ironically is what this turned into.
ak123 - December 19, 2009
+1
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
No...
But his poisonous attitude and cancerous presence in the clubhouse did.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
Yeah. Like that one time when
Reed Johnson refused to take the field because Bradley hurt his feelings…
Oh wait…
BWoodrum - December 18, 2009
I'm not familiar with this stat - poisonous attitude
Is this a new form of sabermetrics I’m not aware of?
dr stabbingworth - December 18, 2009
My apologies...
I forgot that baseball and sports in general are played by robots and that all aspects of the game can be accurately measured a projected through sabermetrics and stats alone.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
nope
which is why sabermetrics are not the end all and be all to every discussion
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
WHAT
Since when did they change the rules and make it so sabermetrics were NOT the only way we evaluate players…dangit…seriously people, someone needs to keep me in the loop here
hansman1982 - December 18, 2009
its the opposite of grit
“http://www.royalsreview.com/2008/5/14/509719/measuring-intangibles-%E2%80%93-th”
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
And
worse than an outright release?!
DMCub - December 18, 2009
We don't know the dollar details yet.
Maybe it will be equalized.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Seattle is paying for Silva's pizza and sausage per diem.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
Can they afford that?
Worf - December 18, 2009
$3 million for the next two years.
They are raising ticket prices to finance the deal.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
This trade makes me want to vomit
I’ll take a clubhouse “cancer” over a terrible pitcher any day.
Congrats Bradley haters, you win. And the rest of us will suffer because of it.
Mike Martin - December 18, 2009
Like I said in the other thread:
My stomach cancer is gone, but the chemo destroyed my liver…
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
You're going to need that liver watching Silva pitch.
Bill Potter - December 18, 2009
That was a great episode of House
But I’m not sure I have a liver left to give to the Cubs. :)
Mike Martin - December 18, 2009
+1
section229beer - December 18, 2009
That was my goal
Making you suffer. Now dance for me, monkeys
Worf - December 18, 2009
Agree
anyone justifying this trade amazes me.
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
agreed
They should have held their nose and kept Bradley.
rgonzale - December 18, 2009
Maybe you'll suffer...
But at least the players won’t have to suffer with him anymore. I’ll take a happy Cub team over a happy Mike Martin.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
Carlos Silva, 2010 NL Cy Young Award Winner
cubswynn - December 18, 2009
Why are we flipping him to the Cards so Duncan an work with him ?
Doggie Stalker - December 18, 2009
silva for pujols maybe?
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
If we threw in Miles they'd do it
Damn you Jim, why’d you trade him?!
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
no, no, no
Fox would have been able to get the deal done though…
hansman1982 - December 18, 2009
Best part of this is
that I remember an article that mentioned Carlos Silva being a “clubhouse cancer” in Seattle about a year ago.
Good times folks, good times
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
Link, please.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
here
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/46799-seattle-mariners-clubhouse-in-turmoil
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
You're citing Bleacher Report as a source?
Gimme a break.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
alright Al
bury your head deeper in the sand if you can. I have give you a source more real than anything you can do to show that Silva is a “good” clubhouse guy. So has the person below me.
Prove me wrong.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
Bleacher Report is not a "source".
It’s a bunch of high school kids writing.
And you can cut the “prove me wrong” crap.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Ok
explain this one.
http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2009/04/26/life_on_the_beat_don_t_irk_the_buffalo
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
You're citing that as "clubhouse cancer"?
Try again. He didn’t want to talk to a writer, who then wrote a “poor me” piece.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
this is a joke al
Milton Bradley did the SAME THING and you skewered him over here. Get over yourself and TRY to be fair about this please.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
It's not the same thing at all.
But your biases apparently prevent you from seeing that.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
…
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Heh.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Laughing in agreement?
Or at the irony of drew suggesting Al has biases?
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
How about both?
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Works for me.
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
Its like the pot and the kettle are in a screaming match.
“No, YOU are blacker!”
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
It's not the same thing at all.
But your biases apparently prevent you from seeing that.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
explain
to me the compelex differences here. So far there have been 3 seperate links showing Silva to be a problem.
You have thrown one out because you dont like the source
Igrnoed the other one
And said Silva screaming at beat writes is somehow not the same as Milton doing it.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
The three links, as far as I can tell...
… are all referring to the same incident. I didn’t see anything about “screaming”.
So you’re going to take one incident and compare it to MB wearing out his welcome in seven different cities?
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
You are so unbelievably stubborn
Replace Carlos Silva with Milton Bradley and you’d be posting these links repeatedly as sources backing your insistence on why Bradley needs to be traded.
dr stabbingworth - December 18, 2009
If he flipped out like this in Seattle
How’s it gonna be when he’s in Chicago and the media is hounding him after his third consecutive outing where he was booed mercilessly off the field?
Not pretty, that’s for sure.
shoemile - December 18, 2009
Well, at least we ditched an equally crappy player and cut some payroll with this deal.
Oh. Wait.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Looks like we DID cut payroll....
… if the $9m figure the Cubs are getting in return is true.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
That helps.
I now only 75% hate this, and am open to warming on it some more were Hendry to turn those extra $6 million in to something useful.
I always said all i wanted was the team to NOT be handicapped and something useful in return. That may yet happen. I’ll withhold any further judgment for the time being.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
A reasonable statement.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
that was Al's
exact argument a winter ago against getting Bradley. If Silva has problems in friendly Seattle just wait until he runs into the holy trinity of Sullivan, Kaplan and Rogers.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
Thanks, Al...
My blog is still picked up in syndication over there.
But to your point, extremely few posters there have any actual journalism background, or outside sourcing.
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
more recently at the WBC:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=4005018
Andronicus - December 18, 2009
lol!
waiting for somebody to explain this away.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
We've NEVER seen Zambrano do anything like that
IIRC there was a Gatorade dispenser that didn’t do well in a fight with him
Guys get angry when they don’t perform well. IT HAPPENS. This isn’t reason enough to say he’s a cancer
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
Great, hope your all happy...
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
Our "all happy" what?
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
ha!
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
well played
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
see this movie before?:
http://www.mlbnotebook.com/2009-articles/april/carlos_silva_is_mean.html
Andronicus - December 18, 2009
That's a quote from another link that's already been posted.
Don’t try to make it look like there’s yet another article. Again, this is a writer who Silva didn’t want to talk to one day, and he wrote a “poor me” article.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
It didn't come across as a "poor me" article to me
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
Carlos Silva was reputed to have threatened bodily harm to one of our players, most likely
Ichiro Suzuki. He said he wanted to “throw them against a wall.”
So yeah, you just traded for a potential cancer.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
Here's another link
This one actually defends Siva’s actions in this situation. It’s kind of messed up so you need to scroll down a bit.
Silva’s complaints
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
That's a really good article.
The key point made: Seattle was supposed to contend in 2008 (I picked them to win the AL West — man, was that wrong!) — and didn’t, and everyone was frustrated. They did say that Silva should have made his comments in-house rather than to a reporter, but didn’t deny that what he said was true.
I think someone like Ryan Dempster can help Silva be a good teammate.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I wish someone like Lee would have helped Bradley be a good teammate.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
From all accounts, he tried.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
link
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
I'd actually like one too
I don’t remember hearing anything of the sort. It would make me feel better about the team knowing someone had stepped up to try to fix the situation.
madcow256 - December 18, 2009
I miss him already.
WBdogs1 - December 18, 2009
He doesn't miss you
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
Chuckle chuckle
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
This is serious!!! *tears*
LOL
WBdogs1 - December 18, 2009
Beggars can't be choosers
seems almost as simple as that
CubsFan87 - December 18, 2009
It wasn't so black and white..
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
No, it IS that black and white
Everybody on earth knew the Cubs had to get rid of MB. Could you imagine what Wrigley would be like if he came out there to start opening day?
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
Therein
lies the problem with ‘some’ Cub fans
DMCub - December 18, 2009
Exactly right
Folks, you have nobody but yourselves to blame for this.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
Agree and disagree
Milton deserves some of the blame too. But to act like this whole episode was something that couldn’t be resolved is amazing. He said some stupid things, but everyone (the front office and the fans) needed to get over it and accept his apology.
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
Bradley didn't apologize.
That statement wasn’t an apology. It was an “I’m sorry I got caught being an ass” statement.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Rec'd
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
Double Rec'd
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
Well whatever your interpertation of that statement
the fact is he said “I’m sorry”. Was it likely heartfelt? Probably not. But it should have been enough for everyone to move on and not resort to this sort of trade
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
I'm sorry but I don't believe for one minute
that Bradley wrote that statement. It seems likely his agent or publicist wrote it.
Now, Milton may have approved the statement but it’s just not the same.
cowsarecool220 - December 18, 2009
What would make one believe that Milton had wrote it?
Is there anything that the statement could have said that would have made anyone believe that Milton wrote it? If not why even bother apologizing if everyone has already made their mind up that they won’t forgive you and they don’t believe you if you decide to apologize?
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
it should have been
enough.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
After a guy kicks you in the crotch and insults your wife...
“I’m sorry” should be enough.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
poor analogy.
unless you were egging the guy on all this time.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Yeah, that's all the fan base did from day one.
Sure.
o.0
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
we've had this discussion before.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Not the only one that you keep rehashing
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
Except
that is what the fanbase did and the reporters.
Milton is a jackass. Accepted. Milton attempted to keep to himself and avoid the media and the Cubs forced him to talk. Of course, he should have been a professional and sucked it up. But to act like the fans and the media weren’t licking their lips before the ink was wet is ridiculous.
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
Yes, us the fans really wanted Milton to be discouraged and feel bad and be angry at us...
we all really wanted him to fail…we like to pick out one player each year and attack, attack, attack until that player cries. Like sinking the Sub. Please.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Maybe the lip licking was overkill
but Bradley was getting crap before he said anything to anyone in Chicago. And seriously, attacking is one thing that Cubs’ fans are really good at.
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
Citation Needed.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Obviously this link is from a message board
But i’m sorry I didn’t walk around with a tape recorder recording fan reactions. There plenty more comments posted on articles giving Bradley crap.
‘Blessed’ Bradley signs with Cubs
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
Milton reads message boards?
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Fine
I’m not really in the mood to argue with your pointless sarcasm. I acknowledged it was a message board. And it’s obvious a message board isn’t representative of an entire fan base. However it does show what I said which was that Bradley was taking crap before ever saying anything.
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
It doesn't show that at all. Bradley didn't "take" anything.
There are people here complaining about Hendry and Silva. Are those guys “taking crap” right now? Come on.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Yes
Because before Siva has played, before he has arrived in Chicago, people already resent him. And as I said in the initial post, Bradley should have behaved like a professional and he didn’t. I wasn’t excusing his behavior, I was stating that yes the fan base, at least part, was against Bradley.
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
The fact that a segment of the fanbase wasn't happy with him only makes his signing...
just like every single other free agent ever signed by a professional sports team.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Do you enjoy like these kind of discussions
Where you make some pseudo-funny remark on the fringe of being relevant so that you can engage your witty sarcasm only to then completely ignore your original statement to make some other point?
I made a comment and you decided to make a sarcastic response. I admitted that I went overboard with my initial statement but still stated that I felt fans were against milton from the start. Your response? More sarcasm. And then more sarcasm. And now you say that’s what every signing is, oh yeah with more sarcasm.
So what really was your point in all this? To show how funny you are?
Considering you ended up saying what you asked me to cite, I don’t really think you had one.
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
Calm down.
My response wasn’t sarcastic. I asked you to cite an example of where or how Milton had to “take crap” before he ever got here or said anything. You didn’t really give an example that showed that. I gave you a related scenario with Hendry and Silva showing you why your example wasn’t valid. Again, not sarcasm. You then countered by telling me that “at least part” of the fanbase was against him, and I’m only pointing out that every FA signing has detractors.
If I was trying to be “funny” I would have posted a picture of a man and wife holding a parrot and machine gun.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Fascinating
SWL does indeed tend to pmake sarcastic comments at times, yet he was replying to you in a nuetral tone and asking legit questionsmaking legit statements, yet you replied based on what you perceive his reputation to be.
All the while, you berate fans for responding to a player’s rep.
Neat, eh?
Shanghai Badger - December 19, 2009
I was going to let it go
This is not a neutral tone, this was his first reply
It’s fine with me if this part of the thread dies.
Villeslgr - December 19, 2009
OPS+
theriot 83 (gritty)
soriano 84 (can’t see me)
bradley 99 (failure)
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
We're now the 6th team that has needed to get over it and accept his apology.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Over/under on when Seattle fans get asked to do this
I’m taking June 1
Worf - December 18, 2009
Under
That coffee is strong. He’ll be like Fry when he uses his tax refund to buy 300 cups of coffee and is all tweaked.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
I don't think you see him get traded this season
Next off season maybe. He’ll DEFINITELY be on the market
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
??
How am I to blame for anything regarding Milton Bradley? I didn’t want him here, didn’t agree to an above market deal with him, didn’t tell the front office that they couldn’t eat a chunk of the deal, and didn’t sit there with a gun over Hendry’s head making him pick up Silva.
So, what exactly are you talking about?
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
It's the latest spin
The fans are responsible for every bad thing that happens to the Cubs. They’d have won 116 games if the fans just loved them all a little more.
Worf - December 18, 2009
+1
BleedsbluinMI - December 18, 2009
Do you really think
MB would have been treated neutrally had he come back to the Cubs next year? Not having roses thrown at his feet, but not booed off the field? Yeah, and I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
You wanted him gone, you got him gone. Now, STFU.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
I'm happy he's gone
I am so very sick of the “fans did it” mentality.
Bradley didn’t do the job he was brought here to do and threw a hissy fit. He’s gone. Get out. Fuck you.
Worf - December 18, 2009
Most of Bradley's problem is Bradley
but don’t tell me the reaction of the fans had little to do with it.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
I already blamed myself
by your directive. Wow, do I feel terrible he is gone.
BleedsbluinMI - December 18, 2009
And again, I ask what does that have to do with me?
He wasn’t terribly neutral to me, given the comments that he made.
It’s fascinating that you take issue with the common fan over behavior and decisions made by millionaires, and billion-dollar corporations.
And STFU? Here’s a better idea, go GFYS.
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
there's a superfluous G in there, I think.
How about you both knock off the abbreviated swearing?
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
Actually, I think the "S" is superfluous
And how about we abbreviate the abbreviated swearing?
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
well, he typed out the word "go" before the abbreviation, so either that "go" or the G was superfluous
What would abbreviated abbreviated swearing look like?
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
"Yourself" is one word, no?
And my brain is too fried from all these posts to even consider the appearance of abbreviated abbreviated swearing?
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
above market deal?
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
I hereby blame myself.
Thanks for clearing that up.
BleedsbluinMI - December 18, 2009
Those of us
who felt it better to keep Milton than get a bad return can.
DMCub - December 18, 2009
Horrible
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
Very upset
The money is about the only thing that makes sense in this situation. It might be a looooong season next year.
mykalmorgan - December 18, 2009
We are swapping contracts
it virtually does nothing
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
Right
Except Milton Bradley is still a valuable player. He makes their offense significantly better as a RH DH/4th outfielder. Silva gives us a very expensive and bad back of the rotation.
mykalmorgan - December 18, 2009
Marshall > Silva
Bradley > Silva
this trade does nothing to help us. We should have just outright CUT Bradley instead
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
Or, you know... fielded the most talented team.
Everybody talks about how baseball is an individual sport, but some guy doesn’t respond to Theriot’s fantasy football trade requests quickly enough and he’s gotta go. Ugh.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Silva is not a back end of the rotation pitcher
He is the back end a horse pitcher. Worse numbers of any MLB starter over last two years.
Doggie Stalker - December 18, 2009
best line in the thread so far.
literally LOL.
nycbirdo - December 18, 2009
Amen Sister!
He was Bavasi’s worst signing and Bavasi was the worst GM in Baseball.
bubbamike the one and only - December 18, 2009
I don't know about that,
I think Jim Bowden may have been worse or at least in the discussion.
cowsarecool220 - December 18, 2009
rec'd
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
At least
w e didn’t take on Vernon Well’s contract, but why take this POS?
100 Years is Nothing - December 18, 2009
the ballhawks give this deal a thumbs up!
Mentioned this in the other thread…
Silva has a propensity to give up the long ball. He gave up 20+ homers for 5 straight years (2004-08) including a league-leading 38 in 2006. 38!!!! Just for reference sakes, Harden led the Cubs last year with 23 (Demp and Lilly right behind at 22).
Hendry, you’re a durn fool but I love ya for it!
ballhawk - December 18, 2009
Its raining balls!
Can you TWSS yourself? I think i just did.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
I think i just did.
TWSS
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Want to make a bet
That Jack Z and Wakamatsu get something out of Milton who will enjoy Seattle where racist fans won’t harass him.
bubbamike the one and only - December 18, 2009
I think Milton is going to do fine in Seattle.
Little national media presence, very mellow fans (too mellow, our fans suck), easygoing media, Ken Griffey Jr. etc.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
How does this trade"fix" Hendry's mistake?
it just compounds it.
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
yep
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
Their never was gonna be a Bradley trade
that was gonna fix anything. What were you expecting?
Zy Toro Young - December 18, 2009
I'm just referring to Al's post above that this fixes Hendry's previous mistake
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
Okay, but it doesnt necessarily compound it.
If it does, we dont know yet.
Zy Toro Young - December 18, 2009
Fair enough , lets just say it "continues it"
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
i would have rather gotten a bag of magic beans
than Carlos Silva.
junkhorse - December 18, 2009
11.5 mil this year
11.5 mil next year, 12 million dollar mutual option (with 2 mil buyout).
2 years, 25 million dollars.
KillaAK - December 18, 2009
Money may be coming back to Cubs
From Muscat’s blog entry:
That usually means more than $1 million is trading hands.
Muscat Rumblings
Qixotl - December 18, 2009
It better be much higehr than that
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
are you sure it's Seattle sending the Cubs money...
…and not the other way around??? ;-)
ballhawk - December 18, 2009
Heh... that crossed my mind too
Worf - December 18, 2009
that's a horrible question
elgato - December 18, 2009
Of course I am not sure
I am just hoping for a bit of sanity.
Qixotl - December 18, 2009
That's going to be hard to find around here today. :)
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
Um Yes
Nobody would take ON salary for Bradley. I am sure they could have traded him to the Rays, eaten ALL the salary and gotten a bag no two bags of balls . That might have been better.
Doggie Stalker - December 18, 2009
Silva makes about $3 mil more than Bradley
we’re giving them Bradley and cash! what a sweet deal Jim!
junkhorse - December 18, 2009
How do you know this?
Why not wait to see what’s actually announced rather than assume the Cubs are paying the extra money?
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/cubs-mariners-talking-bradley-trade.html
junkhorse - December 18, 2009
Two points.
1. If you put a link in the subject line of a comment, it won’t be clickable. Put it in the body of the comment.
2. I don’t see anything in that link that says the Cubs are paying the difference.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
cut and paste
and it’s likely that the Cubs will be paying the difference. given the history of this team and how Hendry does deals, why would you think differently?
junkhorse - December 18, 2009
Because I'm willing to wait and see....
… what the official announcement is, rather than make assumptions.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
If you cut & paste...
… put it in the bigger box in the comment, not the smaller one.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
i will next time
and Hendry has never been a money saver … he’s a money waster.
junkhorse - December 18, 2009
When I said that moving MB would be for the best
because we’d get a player of equal or slightly less calibre, but at least they’d have a smiling face, well, the scenario that played out today isn’t exactly that…
There’s still time for something additional to happen, but at this point in time, we’ve been pimped out.
Hey, I guess to look at things in a positive light, if Chicago wanted the title of fattest city, I think they’ve got it locked down now.
Craig in South Bend - December 18, 2009
soto and silva will lead us to the promised fat land!
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
m’s fans are loving this move
drodd - December 18, 2009
Because
they aren’t stupid?
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
Because they just unloaded the worst starting pitcher in baseball
for a reasonably useful player.
Doggie Stalker - December 18, 2009
I'm not wild about this trade, either, Jess, but
this is what Cubs fans wanted. MB off the team at all costs.
They got their wish. Now, deal with it.
Or maybe adjust your attitudes a little.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
its not
what all cubs fans wanted…
DartmouthCubsFan - December 18, 2009
Painting with a bit of a broad brush, aren't you?
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
The recent polls here...
… seem to indicate that a broad bush is appropriate in this case, unfortunately.
I’d be jumping with joy if i was a Mariners fan. We basically gift wrapped a good player, dropped it in their living room, and offered to take their trash with us as we left.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
An unscientific poll on a largely anonymous blog
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
SB, most people here have been whining all offseason
Mostly revolving around the MB situation. By any means necessary, he was to be traded.
Well, now he has been. Still, the whining continues.
It’s not what all Cubs fans wanted, but it’s what a landslide majority of Cubs fans wanted. If you’re not part of that crowd and haven’t been all along, say so. But if you have been part of that crowd, you now have no right to complain.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
I haven't been one of the "get rid of him at all costs" crowd
I wanted him gone, but Rowand would have been a better return. This isn’t a good trade.
I also wanted the Cubs to sign him in the first place and I admit that I was wrong about that.
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
you're conveniently
mixing groups of people and giving them the same attributes
DartmouthCubsFan - December 18, 2009
I think I was pretty clear
about the distinctions.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
I mean, true...
… but you can’t really believe the results of the polls this fall and winter have been that far off, right?
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Hard to say, really
I know some knowledgable Cubs fans that don’t visit blogs at all.
And, let’s face it – people are stupid. Tangential example – rainout vs. PGH in 2003, end of season. Next day is announced as a traditional DH because of TV rules, instead of day-night. People were livid at the TribCo insisting that they were being screwed. I was there and astounded by the idocy – how does losing $3,000,000 of gate receipts benefit the company and screw the fans? But people wanted to be angry.
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
Of course, "idocy" is really, really bad idiocy . . . .
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
Applies to more than that situation alone, methinks.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Indeed
It was meant to
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
come work at a car dealership for a month and you will see it first hand
hansman1982 - December 18, 2009
LMAO
i’m sure you meant this as the customers but that’s not how i took it!
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
The Cub fans
should not be the ones making player decisions.
bubbamike the one and only - December 18, 2009
Agreed
But I certainly think they had a hand in this one.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
They have common sense
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
What is there
not to love? You actually just got something useful back for Carlos Silva? If Bradley goes bust, they can just release him, as the Silva deal was a sunk cost that they weren’t getting return on anyway.
Who in the hell would object to this deal?
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
They are ditching Silva
I’d be happy if I were them too.
Check back on May 15 when Bradley has accused Starbucks of racism.
Worf - December 18, 2009
"They asked if i want my coffee black! Black!"
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
"I can't play in this town
because dead Kurt Cobain is too racist for me."
Craig in South Bend - December 18, 2009
Anyone venture over to the....
Mariners’ SBN site for their reaction?
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
I don't want to be sick, so I am not going there.
Doggie Stalker - December 18, 2009
They’re pretty happy.
LetsMakeADeal - December 18, 2009
Linky
Most seem happy. A few seem upset.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Anyone who’s pissed about getting a very good hitter for an absolutely shitty pitcher has issues.
LetsMakeADeal - December 18, 2009
Right...
Because ALL you get with Bradley is a “very good hitter”? Might want to rethink that.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
Perhaps they recognize...
… that Bradley’s other issues have very little to do with his and his teams on field success?
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
I beg to differ...
But that’s okay.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
check those links
The Seattle fans don’t seem to think that Silva has a great attitude, either.
vonde6 - December 18, 2009
Unfortunately
why does everyone think all Cubs fans hate Bradley. Another bunch of crap from the media! I was disappointed in Bradley, but heck why “hate” the guy.
Saratoga - December 18, 2009
They'll turn on him once he starts his act over there
Ace Venom - December 18, 2009
About 99% are happy.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
They are laughing their asses off at their good fortune.
AussieCub - December 18, 2009
How anyone can put a postive spin on this,
is beyond me. This is bad bad bad bad. No matter how you shake it. Stop drinking the Koolaid.
LetsMakeADeal - December 18, 2009
Spin or shake...
As long as Bradley is gone, it’s a good move.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
I'll put a qualifier on that.
Carlos Silva has been a bad pitcher for two years. Could he get better? Maybe. But getting Bradley off the team makes the entire situation better.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I'd rather just make the team better
shoemile - December 18, 2009
situation better
team worse
DartmouthCubsFan - December 18, 2009
Its not positive, but its not that negative either.
No Bradley deal was gonna be to far in either direction.
Zy Toro Young - December 18, 2009
My take is I would rather have the bad pitcher than hitter
because with a pitcher you can: 1. Work with them on a new pitch or grip 2. Pair them with a catcher that calls a better game 3. Pull them out if they can get through 5 and you’re not down 7 runs 4. Put them in the bull pen 5. Have another pitcher influence them into changing mechanics to improve 6. Have Rothchild make him serviceable….. on and on……..
But, with a bad hitter they just kill you ever time they’re up or you set them. Pitchers can get out of ruts. Look at what a bad pitcher Glendon R. was for the Cubs but when he came over we actually got some use out of him for a while.
Trading Bradley was never going to be a good deal for us. Let’s move on here, nothing to see. Let’s fix the rest and hope this works out.
mrcubsfan - December 18, 2009
agreed...
Bradley isn’t a bad hitter though. There’s literally no chance he’ll have a negative value in the box score. He’s better than average, more likely much better and he’ll be better than the Mariners’ alternatives… as long as he keeps out of trouble (which is unlikely, but when he does, the Mariners can just cut him, like they were probably going to do Silva and take the added performance on the field they got out of Bradley).
Silva is a very bad, very expensive (even at discount) pitcher who cannot get left handers out so you really can’t use him in the pen either.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
We will know by August how good or bad this was.
I can take a wait and see approach. I have no choice do I?
mrcubsfan - December 18, 2009
maybe...
but i don’t think it will take that long. And we don’t have a choice as long as we remain Cubs fans. We can just fight against really stupid moves by the team we love.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
Waiting...
… to see the final deal, but at first glance this is the worst possible solution to the “Bradley Problem.” The Cubs get a player in return that has zero value to the team, while not freeing up any money. Again, waiting to see the money involved, but it can’t be that significant.
Any of the other three options, Burrell, cutting MB, or holding onto him would have been better.
This might be the move that proves to be Hendry’s final straw. Really hoping against hope that something good comes out of this.
Tangled Up In Blue - December 18, 2009
Would you rank...
Outright releasing him above/below this move?
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
B'low
section229beer - December 18, 2009
Above
Doggie Stalker - December 18, 2009
In a way, above.
Again, waiting to see the final terms of the deal before, and how the whole thing shakes out. At first glance however, the Cubs are now on the hook for more money over the same amount of years to a player that quite literally could have zero value to the team over the course of this contract.
Again, nothing has been finalized, and Silva could have productive years, but looking at Silva’s track record, he doesn’t appear to be a useful 5th starter let alone worth a fraction of his deal.
I was/am all for removing Bradley from the Cubs. I also realize that getting something favorable in return is impossible, however this move may actually hurt the team.
Tangled Up In Blue - December 18, 2009
9 Million
If the Cubs in fact did recieve 9 mil from the Marines, this becomes the a much better deal than originally thought and we should all wait to see how that money is spent.
Regardless of what Silva does, if the money allows JH to make a better move, the Cubs are better off.
Tangled Up In Blue - December 18, 2009
Don't know what some of you expected.
Silva, if healthy, is only going to be asked to be a 5th starter in the NL. He won’t be “the problem” this year.
Rick B - December 18, 2009
nothing like a fifth starter
making 11.5 million dollars.
KillaAK - December 18, 2009
Jason Marquis
can relate.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
Jason Marquis
is light-years beyond better than Silva.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Yes, he is.
But he wasn’t an option here.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
no
but keeping a good baseball player was.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
We've been through that.
No matter how “good” Bradley was, keeping him was not an option, either.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I know you believe that
but your belief doesn’t necessarily make it true.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
In any case...
… it’s done now. Maybe Silva will suck, maybe he won’t. The Cubs got some financial relief.
It could have been better, but it could have been worse, too.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
So now that Milton is no longer a Cub...
can we stop talking about him?
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Yes PLEASE!!!
sue369 - December 18, 2009
best comment all day
Emelie - December 18, 2009
maybe with Marquis
we make the playoffs
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
Last year?
Just who would you have had him replace?
GoBackToSchaumburg - December 18, 2009
We were going to eat the money no matter what.
Rick B - December 18, 2009
rather eat on a plaer that is somewhat useful
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
I'll resist...
Emelie - December 18, 2009
I was already having a shitty day..
..this trade blows. Milton will own in seattle. Silva..yuck..fml :(
cubbiebear316 - December 18, 2009
Well, so much for Mayor Smith's interview post...
ballhawk - December 18, 2009
hee!
Emelie - December 18, 2009
Sigh.
Best-laid plans and all that…
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Additional thought
if you’ve seen UHF, you’ll understand this, but the Cubs are officially the woman who chose the box.
STUPID! YOU’RE SO STUPID!
Craig in South Bend - December 18, 2009
BTW Silva is a CLUBHOUSE CANCER
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/46799-seattle-mariners-clubhouse-in-turmoil
Nice choice, Jim
LetsMakeADeal - December 18, 2009
Please don't believe anything you read on Bleacher Report
We’ve been over this many times.
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 18, 2009
So Silva didn’t call out his teammates when he sucked?
LetsMakeADeal - December 18, 2009
Here you go
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2008101921_mari09.html
That Bleacher Report just had a little commentary built in.
LetsMakeADeal - December 18, 2009
Those statements hardly rank him as "clubhouse cancer".
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Or this
http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2009/04/26/life_on_the_beat_don_t_irk_the_buffalo
Silva screaming profanity at beat writers. Sound familiar?
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
And he feuds with reporters
http://www.mlbnotebook.com/2009-articles/april/carlos_silva_is_mean.html
dr stabbingworth - December 18, 2009
Wrong link
Original:
http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2009/04/26/life_on_the_beat_don_t_irk_the_buffalo
dr stabbingworth - December 18, 2009
That's just the kind of firey leadership this team needs!
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
lol
at least Sullivan will have a new friend next year.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
Thanks. Exactly. He’s as big of an asshole as Milton.. But hey, he’s not black.
LetsMakeADeal - December 18, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
That guy kinda looks like Toby Kieth.
14theofleury - December 19, 2009 via mobile
Oh give me a F*cking break!!!! This is the single stupedist comment in the history of BCB, CONGRATULATIONS!
Silva has made snippy freaking comments to reporters, big freakin’ deal. Do you have any clue what you are talking about?! I am guessing you haven’t the slightest clue about anything you are talking about right now.
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
are you sure
you know what you are talking about?
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
He's basically calling everyone who doesn't like MB a racist
Milton Bradley will now be going to his 8th club in 10 seasons. Silva’s will be on his 4th in nine years, and that includes four season under Ron Gardenhire. The guy is hated by both fans and teammates alike no matter where he goes, the entire league and fanbase of baseball is not racist, but that’s exactly what the Einstein above said.
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
Thanks for this link instead.
I’m not trying to defend Silva, just pointing out that Bleacher Report should never be used as a source.
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 18, 2009
Not good, same problem different guy
Isn’t mouthing off in the media what got us into this mess. Cubs fans were too upset by Milton’s comments which made them HAVE to trade him AT ALL COSTS!!!
So we trade him for a pitcher that calls out his teammates in the press. Ugh.
At least Milton wasn’t calling out his teammates for their play on the field.
239 Brigade - December 18, 2009
Carlos Silva
……………..to think the Cub’s were going to get anything useful is asinine. There is a small chance that Silva can be a competent # 5 starter though. Maybe coming to the NL can help………..let’s face it…..one way or another we were paying MB in 2011 no matter what.
What’s the over/under for number of comments in this thread?? lol
plenz - December 18, 2009
1050
I take the over
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
does that count any overflow threads?
plenz - December 18, 2009
Hmmm...
Not exactly sure the ruling on that. Might have to call upstairs
Right now I’d say this one alone can get to that total
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
And the duplicate posts
As late as Sunday, we’re going to get, “Hey, guys, guess what I just heard…”posts.
Worf - December 18, 2009
Only 1050?
The over’s a lock at that number, I’d say. :)
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
Jake Fox is bummed - he wanted to hold on to the record a little while longer...
ballhawk - December 18, 2009
We'll send him a fruit basket to make him feel better
Throw some corn in there, I bet he misses it from Iowa…
Musicdude10 - December 18, 2009
3800 (total) by the end of the weekend
Andronicus - December 18, 2009
The level of over reaction
per limited official detail of this deal is staggering. Simmer down.
Slakkr - December 18, 2009
Right.
If and when Carlos Silva does anything good for the Cubs, I’ll make sure to link back to this post.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
What if he fails?
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
Then I'll say so.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Don’t worry. you won’ have to.
LetsMakeADeal - December 18, 2009
guess that depends on what you define as "good"
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
Eating four large pizzas is pretty good
Worf - December 18, 2009
Pizza is good.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
I can't even win
my 8 person fantasy league, so I’ll reserve that Hendry might know more than me for know.
Slakkr - December 18, 2009
And refer back to it when Milton has .380 OBP for Seattle
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
and Seattle is in 4th place.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
They finished higher than that last year
And had a better record than us too. Now they’ve been able to pick up a Cy Young winner, one of the top FA prospects (Figgens), and traded their worse pitcher for a outfielder whose flaws are not likely to be exacerbated playing in a city like Seattle.
madcow256 - December 18, 2009
I'm not
going to hold my breath.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Aren't you going to defend Silva?
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Only if the Chicago media writes something negative about him
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
why?
he’s a bad baseball player. He plays badly UPON THE FIELD. Milton Bradley is NOT a bad baseball player.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
But he's on your team, and if I've learned something from you, it is that you should always root for players on your team, no matter what.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
I’m pretty sure I never told anyone to root for Aaron Miles. FWIW.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
he sure was last year
digitalbenjamin - December 18, 2009
no
he was mediocre last year.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
.257 BA with 40 RBI in 124 games is not mediocre.
That’s just plain BAD my friend. (and that’s not even bring up defense and other intangibles)
digitalbenjamin - December 18, 2009
Bradley has always played decent defense.
Using RBIs and batting average to evaluate a player is rather flawed. Bradley was actually a decent player last year, as many Cubs fans on here correctly realize./
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
I'd agree with this,
But given the amount of banter that surrounded a potential deal for Bradley during the winter meeting posts, it’s a practical impossibility to expect.
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
Oh, it's going to get much worse - trust me.
I don’t think there’s been a BLou sighting yet, has there?
It’s Friday… just sit back, grab your favorite beverage and enjoy the show…
ballhawk - December 18, 2009
This could bring back Eric Hanna
Worf - December 18, 2009
It did!
<img src=“”http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii83/fonzie2178/?action=view¤t=erichanna.jpg" target="_blank">
"/>
Fonzie2178 - December 18, 2009
Oh. My. Dear. Sweet. Merciful. Crap.
Eric lives!!!!!!
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
rec'd
Gotta beat the HANNA post record of rec’s here.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
eric hanna lives!
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
also, my PSP won’t play this game. What do you suggest?
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
I'm just glad it's a slow Friday at the office.
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
I am off to lunch
somehow I still have an appetite. I expect my computer to crash when I try to log in here again
Doggie Stalker - December 18, 2009
good idea.
I’m off to lunch too. I assume this post will be up to 1200 comments by the time i get back!
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
Lol! And in Imax!
Emelie - December 18, 2009
Dumpster Diving Jim
Still living off the trades he made with Pittsburgh years ago for Ramirez and Florida for Lee. While all the other teams are looking for free agents to help, Jim is looking to find that diamond in the rough. And how many has he found?
Never mind the overpaying of free agents (Bradley, Miles, Marquis Jacque Jones.) Really, would it have been any worse than if we just released Bradley?
I’ve never been one to call for Hendry’s head before, but I think he has to go.
cubfred - December 18, 2009
Yes
it would have been worse.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
This wasn't...
A “find a diamond in the rough” trade, it was a dump Bradley trade. I wouldn’t read too much into the player they got back.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
The issue is what did Hendry get with a 3yr/30 mil contract...
I’d be fine with releasing Hendry on Monday.
section229beer - December 18, 2009
+ 100
The Soriano deal was questionable. But MB? Beyond insane.
cubnational - December 19, 2009
I never realized
how many people on here seem to believe they know what it takes to run a Major League team
so many people believe that releasing milton, keeping him, getting decent trade value, were all possibilities hendry never explored or thought to explore,
but come on, none of us know that, we can all whine and complain that the sucks at his job, yada yada, but none of us having any experience doing his job, and most of never will
CubsFan87 - December 18, 2009
this is not a decent return..
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
No, it's not.
But it may have been the only way to deal Bradlye.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
If we don't get any money in return, it's horrible because it does not help out the starting rotation at all
really…you want Carlos Silva pitching every five days for us?
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
There in lies my point
what I “want” as a fan and what is actually possible are not the same
CubsFan87 - December 18, 2009
Not really.
But I’m willing to wait and see if he might get better.
I refer you again to the reaction to the Hundley deal seven years ago — there was no BCB then, but I can tell you the reaction was almost identical — people said, “Karros & Grudzielanek? They suck, and we don’t need them.”
That turned out to be wrong.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
true, but realistically when do trades like those happen?
I want Silva to succeed, but I’m a realistic here. Just like I had the gut feeling on the day that he signed that Bradley would not do well. Many here said “well maybe he would calm down and won’t have to worry about his personaility or injuries”
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
This trade will be like the Hundley one...
Except the Mariners will be the ones looking back on it fondly.
Poloplaya14 - December 18, 2009
That remains to be seen.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
It does.
But I think the chances of Milton Bradley being productive are a lot higher than the odds of Silva turning things around.
And I also quibble with your comparison of Silva to Karros and Grudzielanek. Karros’ ‘02 line of .271/.323/.399 was bad, but not completely horrible. His OPS+ of 96 was barely below league average. And Grudz’ ‘02 line was .271/.301/.364, with an OPS+ of 81. Again, it was bad, but for a 2B, it’s not that horrible. Consider that Mike Fontenot’s OPS+ last year was 72.
On the other hand, Silva has an ERA over 6.80 over the past couple years. That’s just horrific. It’s simply a much lower level of performance than what Karros and Grud had put out in ’02, making it a poor comparison
Poloplaya14 - December 18, 2009
Silva was injured most of last year.
I’d discount that completely. If healthy, I would think he could get back to his 2007 level, where he would be a serviceable #5 starter.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Was he really injured though?
Or did the Ms just stick on the DL because he sucked so much, like the Cubs did with Aaron Miles for a good chunk of the year?
In any case, the best-case scenario for Silva is that of a #5 starter. The best-case scenario for Bradley is that of a guy who put up an OPS+ of 161 a year ago. The only thing the Cubs have going for them is that they save a reported $6 million due to the cash got from the Ms, which I guess is a pretty solid plus.
Poloplaya14 - December 19, 2009
I believe the injury was legit.
It started the year before with back problems. That’s one reason they HAVE to get him to lose weight.
Al Yellon - December 19, 2009
So the question is, was it worth it to dump Bradley?
We’ll have to see how the season plays out, I’m guessing the Cubs got the worse end of this deal.
239 Brigade - December 18, 2009
Again, I am assuming
you are just a fan with no front office experience with a Major League team so your evaluation of “not a decent return” takes into account no actual conversations with General Managers which would have led you to believe that there was another possible trade that would have netted a “decent return”
CubsFan87 - December 18, 2009
I only have to look at stats to see that this trade is crap
and you are just making broad assumptions concerning what could have happened.
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
Because stats
tell the whole story right?
CubsFan87 - December 18, 2009
christ have you seen this guy pitch?
no you haven’t … mostly because he’s hurt all the damn time. his potential left with his ability to pitch 3 years ago.
junkhorse - December 18, 2009
well they did for Bradley, who besides the previous year, essentially lived up to what he had earleir accomplished
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
Yeah, they do. A rock is
more valuable than Silva.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
this gives us nothing
except it does provide Cubs trainers with one more injury-prone player to treat.
junkhorse - December 18, 2009
they were out of work when prior and woody left
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
Don't forget Harden
vonde6 - December 18, 2009
This is what's called using the "appeal to authority" fallacy. Bad idea.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
Is this revenge for the Cedeno trade?
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
which one?
don’t disparage the guy the Pirates are building their team around.
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
I hope there are financial considerations
or prospects coming our way. Otherwise it would have made more sense to release Bradley.
I see no way Silva can possibly help the Cubs in 2010.
Clark Addison - December 18, 2009
So what did all the BCB cry-babies think we would get for Bradley?
The second coming of Cy Young or Brian Roberts? Or Brian Roberts’ wife?
Let’s be realistic.
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
They could have kept a good hitter and not traded him… But then again. That’s the semi-intelligent way to go.
LetsMakeADeal - December 18, 2009
magic beans, a leprechaun, a bean stalk and a path to glory
junkhorse - December 18, 2009
They didn't want anything for Bradley.
They wanted Bradley.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Wow... Zen-like
Worf - December 18, 2009
Mind = Blown
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
Not a good trade, but you know what?
We weren’t going to come anywhere close to getting a good deal in return for Bradley and I, for one, am very happy to see him gone. He needed to be gone and that’s all there is to it, he should have never been here to begin with.
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
At least this is better than Cubs Haiku Friday!
Or is it?
WBdogs1 - December 18, 2009
seems like this has turned into Farku Friday instead ;-)
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
Milton gets traded
A BCB Civil War
I really want soup
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
CAKE!!!!
Worf - December 18, 2009
Cheese.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
I thought it was "gum" now.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
I'm pondering it.
I’ve decided i like gum about 100x more when i’m high then when i’m not. Cheese is universally enjoyable. Not sure what to make of it.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Bradley leaves the Cubs
Posts faster than I can count
Refrigerator?
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
Man, we are really going to suck next year. :(
xene - December 18, 2009
Well, Cubs are getting $9 million back plus salary
according to the Troll Sullivan. So it’s OK.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
really?
9 mil now … next year?
when?
if so … that’s pretty solid.
toonsterwu - December 18, 2009
Right.
If they get that much money — well then, maybe some more signings can come out of this.
Yet another reason why people should wait till they get the whole story before they bitch.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
But those 300 or so comments before we knew that $9 million was being kicked in
Were so fun and productive.
Bill Potter - December 18, 2009
LMAO
True.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
still doesn't take away the fact we have to watch Silva pitch every five days..
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
Yup
shoemile - December 18, 2009
who says
hell be the fifth starter, why not make him compete for the job
JMG1984 - December 18, 2009
I was assuming he'd be in the bullpen
It’s an insult to Marshall to make him compete against someone with Silva’s numbers.
Worf - December 18, 2009
AMEN!
CubsFan87 - December 18, 2009
i like bitching before the whole story
it allow me to kill time :)
junkhorse - December 18, 2009
'Bitching Before The Whole Story'
Sounds like a book title.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
written by Cub fans?
junkhorse - December 18, 2009
It's a best seller
at the closest Barnes and Noble to Clark and Addison, I’m sure.
Not Bruce Froemming - December 18, 2009
LOL
Many times, yes.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
the book would open
“This book sucks, I’m not an author or anyone affiliated with professional writing, but as an occasional reader of magazines and comic strips, this book is not worth your time or money.”
CubsFan87 - December 18, 2009
it still doesn't make
the team even equally as good, much less better.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
#4
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
9 mil...
…is what they said on the radio.
This means they are paying 16 mil over the next 2 years for a shitty pitcher, vs being stuck with asshole for 21 mil.
All in all, I’ll take it and you just move on.
MPH73 - December 18, 2009
Rec'd.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
And now the waiting game begins for the next move.
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
That's not terrible.
Yes, it’s still Carlos Silva, but $9 million is a good haul to bring back.
Bill Potter - December 18, 2009
remember
Silva costs $3mill more than Bradley. It’s a $6mill net “gain”. And I use the word “gain” very loosely.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
How can it be "loosely"?
The Cubs have $6m more than they did yesterday.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
and a much worse
team on the field.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
#6
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
We don't know that yet.
Again, almost every bit of reaction seven years ago to the Todd Hundley deal was just like this: “Karros and Grudzielanek suck, and we don’t need them!”
Turned out differently.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
you're counting on lightning
to strike twice.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Don't say that it can't.
Because it can.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
but it's extremely unlikely, Al
cmon.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
It was unlikely that Karros and Grudz would contribute.
But they did.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I'm with Drew on this part, Al
Karros and Grudzeilanek had prior success
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
But, they had sucked the year before...
…. and Karros had sucked for TWO years.
Silva has had at least a couple of passable major league seasons.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I really think you're reaching here
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
passable
but still awful peripherals
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
True.
But if he can work on his game and improve, he could be a passable fifth starter. Which we could use.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
usually fat oft injured players on the wrong side of 30
dont get better
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
Usually.
But we don’t have any choice but to hope, right?
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I'm jumping in here way late, I realize,
but I’m trying to understand something here. I will gladly acknowledge that Silva has been beyond shitty for three of the past four years, and there’s no reason to think that he’ll be better in ’10.
What I don’t get is looking at years like ‘04, ’05. and ’07 and saying that "yeah, I know he threw 200 innings to about a 4.00 era in the American league, but his periphals sucked. I could give a rats ass how many guys he strikes out in ’10, if he pitches 200 innings and gives up 4 runs per nine innings, I would call that success. Doesn’t matter how he does it. Give up a run and a half per inning, who cares? If he gives you innings and keeps the team in that game, that’s the goal, especially for a fifth starter, right?
davidalanu - December 18, 2009
yeah...
but the last two really, really sucked… and he was doing it in perfect environs for him. The only thing he has going for him here is he’s not Milton Bradley.
jameslcrockett - December 19, 2009
No, much worse on paper.
Bradley was no longer part of the club, regardless of our preferences. No guarantee Silva will do anything at all.
The only true difference is +$6M.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
$5mill
if the Cubs.com release is correct. Bradley is owed $21m, Silva $25m. That’s $4m. $9m-$4m=$5m.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
I believe the correct figure owed to Bradley is $22m.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Correct accoring to Sullivan's new article
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 18, 2009
I wonder what the $1 million in incentives was.
I haven’t been able to find any information on that. His contract did have some clauses in it, but he didn’t hit any of them while he was here.
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
and people say that bradley was overpaid
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
From the official press release
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
It puts a little bit of alleviation on our problem
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
I wish they had the cash amount on that press release
If they got $9 million back, that’s quite impressive. It still leaves us with an enigma in Carlos Silva, but it does open up some doors for more off-season activity.
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
$9m back, but Silva was owed $3m more
So $6m back
madcow256 - December 18, 2009
That's actually officially not bad
Worf - December 18, 2009
its 6 million
in savings after you consider that Silva’s deal was worth more $. So we gained 6 million in payroll.
It’s better than nothing is about the nicest thing I can say about this.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
$9 million plus salary
According to Sully. But you’re right… I’d guess it’s closer to $6m and change than $9 m and change.
Worf - December 18, 2009
Even $6m is helpful.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
like I said
it’s better than nothing. Its still a horrible deal but if Sullivan is correct on the dollar amount it should help.
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
It will probably allow the signing of a CF...
… and maybe a pitcher.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I think you can forget about signing a pitcher
looks like Jim just gave Lou his pitcher. LOL
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
is silva left handed???????
that would make lou rea
lly happyKyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
The money makes it a much better deal that originally thought.
I said it above, but if the money is in fact near what is being reported, we should all wait and see how JH spends it. Silva may or may not be of any use, but if JH can turn the savings into a servicable CF option, then the Cubs are significantly better off.
Tangled Up In Blue - December 18, 2009
The money makes the deal horrible, as opposed f$#@ing horrible
Wreckard - December 18, 2009
LOL
lostinthevines - December 18, 2009
Depends on what they do with it.
Six million can be spent many different ways.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
though in this day and age
not on much that’s very good.
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
Given the cost of a win in today's market
$6M isn’t enough to offset the marginal loss of replacing Milton Bradley with Carlos Silva.
Wreckard - December 18, 2009
yeah the 9 doesnt really mean much
considering Silva made more. I would assume the 6 million is what Jim will try to use to get Byrd to sign. Using the 6 this year and then back loading the deal (sound familiar)
CalCalender - December 18, 2009
it's 5 million.
KillaAK - December 18, 2009
its actually
jack squat this year:
Per http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=4754761
“According to sources familiar with the deal, the Mariners will send a total of $9 million to the Cubs in the deal — about $3 million in 2010 and about $6 million in 2011.”
hansman1982 - December 18, 2009
That will provide the Cubs some good salary relief next year.
Hendry did about the best he could.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I hope everyone here is happy when the 2010 Cubs play the game right way and win 80 games.
GoBackToSchaumburg - December 18, 2009
by August 5th.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Versus the 2009 Cubs...
Who didn’t play the right way and won 83 games?
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
Lou Pineilla is still our manager
so chin up, we could still play really lousy baseball, and play it the wrong way.
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
perspective from seattle:
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/
Andronicus - December 18, 2009
He doesn't have a consistent...
History of flipping a tizzy? Wut? Are we talking about the same Milton Bradley?
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
that's the best example of a Mariners fans rationalizing, and hoping for the best I've ever seen
and it sounds a lot like Drew blogs for that site
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
it'll be very interesting to see
how Bradley does there.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
I hope the door hits you in the ass, Milton,
and you break a few bones. Jerkoff.
dtpollitt - December 18, 2009 via mobile
Watch out, the reactionary wing will flag you.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
Bring it on, you dirty hippies!
dtpollitt - December 18, 2009 via mobile
Hah!
Please tell me you’ve seen passedoutwookies.com. An old favorite:
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Agree completely...
Except for the breaking bones part.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
do you really think
this trade makes the team better?
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
No...but it was the best option for the Cubs
With MB starting the season it would have been the worse case scenario for the Cubs.
Geo4MVP - December 18, 2009
I give up.
This is ridiculous. Milton Bradley is a plus ball player. Silva is definitely not. The $6 mill net back makes this barely palatable.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
quitter.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Is he a winner?
Zy Toro Young - December 18, 2009
Good. I hope you quit.
Milton sucks ass.
dtpollitt - December 18, 2009 via mobile
#5
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
what
exactly is it that you think you’re counting?
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
you Drew,
He’s counting You!
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
I guess he is.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
hey, maybe this trade will work out as well as the Orton/Cutler trade
…the only question is:
Are the Cubs the Broncos or Bears?
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
Let's hope Broncos.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Agreed
Because I can’t think of more Kyle Orton-ness without having involuntary shivers. :)
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
urlacher = Bradley
This team sucks we have no identity when we had orton we won. Trade urlacher for deion branch the Bears need a WR
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
I can't think of a player in baseball I'd want less than Silva.
But we simply were not going to be an ideal return for Bradley. Was not going to happen. We had to get Bradley off the team. People here can wail about his OBP all they want, but the 2010 Cubs would have been the “Barnum & Bradley” circus from the minute MB showed up at spring training. For a group of players that has not proven to be able to handle distractions all that well, trying to play the 2010 season with Bradley around would have been pure suicide. Hendry paid for his bad signing of Bradley with what appears to be a bad trade. But if they can’t flip Silvia in another trade, bring the guy to ST and let’s see what he’s got. We had to move Bradley, and now that’s done. Let’s keep moving forward and try to improve the team further. A long way to go in this offseason.
ctcoff99 - December 18, 2009
I can think of one.
Milton Bradley :-)
Fonzie2178 - December 18, 2009
Zing!
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
I can: Aaron Miles
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
You win. :)
ctcoff99 - December 18, 2009
great, what do I win?
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
You win Aaron Miles. ;)
hip2bsquare - December 18, 2009
Don't forget Jake Fox
You can’t take Miles without getting Fox.
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
matt murton
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
he’s in asia hunting unicorn
Villeslgr - December 18, 2009
Barry Bonds?
IowaCubs- - December 18, 2009
wait now there's an idea for a RF at low cost!
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
John Rocker
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Ted Williams!
Worf - December 18, 2009
Is it confirmed to be $9M back to the Cubs?
If so this is infinitely better than just releasing MB and eating the contract. Silva may not suck completely and may be tradeable for something.
Jimbo has financial relief and a player who may become tradable and plays a position, somewhat, of need.
Hell, Hendry could now trade Silva and eat half of whatever’s left and kick this into high gear.
Any links confirming the $9M?
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
Not yet.
But it’ll actually be only $6 million once both contracts offset each other.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
Got it.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
its 5 million.
KillaAK - December 18, 2009
I assume this is speculation and not confirmed.
Sullivan tweet
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 18, 2009
Link does not work.
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
Here’s the Sullivan link and tweet:
That makes this much more palatable.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Thanks Al
Not sure what happened when I tried to link.
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 18, 2009
Agreed.
Tangled Up In Blue - December 18, 2009
It'd be a stretch to trade Silva for a hot dog.
You’re not trading him for jack squat.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
Great move for Bradley
Great opportunity to rebound. Much less media pressure in Seattle, especially on the national media given the far north location in the pacific time.
His numbers should bounce back especially with Ichiro and Figgins batting in the 1 and 2 spots.
RiskyBusiness - December 18, 2009
Oh no doubt...
… he’s gotta feel like he’s riding a unicorn through the clouds right now. While eating a rainbow.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
A BOX OF ROCKS WOULD BE BETTER THAN THIS TRADE...
I was actually hoping that we’d get some sort of a double A hurler or something in addition to scraps, but whatever…
Maybe Hendry has another planned signing of a FA outfielder or something. Anyway, I hope I’ll have more hope for this team tomorrow.
IowaCubs- - December 18, 2009
I'll give it a chance.
For better or worse, the Cubs had crossed the Rubicon with Milton Bradley. When Hendry has been forced to make these kind of trades, he has done well, generally.
Now, off the top of my head, I could pick several contracts I’d rather pick up than Carlos Silva’s. But with $9 million coming back, it lessens the blow.
While I doubt that Silva produces like Karros and Grudzielanek did, who knows, maybe his fellow countryman helps him refine his delievery and adjust to Chicago. And maybe he performs slighly better than an innings eater. It may not happen (and likely won’t, given his performance of late), but I’ll give it a chance.
Bill Potter - December 18, 2009
Rec'd.
That’s exactly how I feel.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Rec'd
Tangled Up In Blue - December 18, 2009
Rec'd
Pretty much nailed it.
Canadian Cubs Fan - December 18, 2009
hoping
for better than innings eater is a fantasy
you should hope for “innings eater”
DartmouthCubsFan - December 18, 2009
I think my thought is
It’s over with. There was every indication that, until MB was moved, we couldn’t really proceed with the offseason. From a fan perspective, reading about MB was bothersome. There was every indication that there was no way MB was going to be back. I wasn’t against him coming back, but I preferred to move him to be able to improve OF defense.
If it’s true that we got 9 million, that’s not bad. If that means a bit more flexibility this year, maybe a bit more next year. As for Silva, well, there’s very little that’s positive about Silva right now. I could spin the whole “at least it’s an asset” line, but that’d be spin. Essentially, we’re hoping for a little luck. I really hope that Silva isn’t even a consideration for that temporary 5th starter’s job. Mike Parisi holds more intrigue for me. Heck, I’d rather see Jeff Samardzija than Carlos Silva. About the only positive spin I can put on this that I feel comfortable typing is that it allows for a young arm to potentially stay in the minors, and potentially, be stretched out. Perhaps someone like Esmailin Caridad, which could provide us with another “emergency starter” option in AAA. Right now, Silva’s the most expensive 12th pitcher on a staff out there.
Overall, though, we got money and the organization is allowed to move on. Say what you want about the original signing of MB … as for this move specifically, I’m fine with it, even if we end up cutting Silva at some point. I mean, even if we cut Silva, that means we saved 5 million over these two years, which is better than I expected. The main positive is that it allows the organization to move on. Maybe they will feel better about themselves for not eating money. Let’s not discount the importance of moving on. The organization seemed to be treading water until it could figure something out on MB.
I’ll be very curious what happens next. I could see things fall rather quickly. We had around 5-10 million free pre-MB trade, and depending on how the Mariners cash is spread out … we could have a bit more. My next hope is that we don’t give any sort of contract to Marlon Byrd that might allow him to net 3 years (even with options) or that Byrd gets a backloaded contract. Tbh, I would rather pursue a pen arm and a 5th starter before CF right now, even with the threat of Crisp potentially signing in San Diego.
toonsterwu - December 18, 2009
Rec'd
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
I agree for the most part...
But it just proves that this was done out of sheer emotion, and without much cognitive dissonance. This sort of “GITERDONE JIM” attitude is the same sort of knee-jerk reaction that brought Bradley to the Cubs in the first place. It just shows that the front office of the Cubs has very little long-term strategic planning in them.
IowaCubs- - December 18, 2009
I'm not sure I feel that way
Unless you are suggesting that MB should’ve stayed. As for trade options out there, this was getting close to the final option. Rangers weren’t seriously considering him unless Lowell fell through, and Tampa wanted us to pay the whole thing. Even if Heyman is right and that it is 6 mil over 2 years, that’s still a small savings.
toonsterwu - December 18, 2009
Right...
It was an impossible situation.
IowaCubs- - December 18, 2009
well done...
and an nice rebound from your Astros post
Andronicus - December 18, 2009
huh
Guess I missed a post somewhere. I’ll stick by what I said in two posts already – if you asked me to pick a favorite right now, based on rosters as of now, I will go with the Astros and I’ll stick with that for today. By tomorrow, if other moves are made, then that could change. I also noted in both posts that
a) I don’t think the Astros will actually win the division but that it is a reflection on the fact that they’ve made some moves already. I’ve long said that too much is made of pre-season/offseason projections as a method to judge how good a team is, when we full well know that fluke years occur, fluke performances occur. Case in point – I remember last offseason that a poster railed against me for suggesting that the Marlins had a shot at the playoffs because pre-season projections didn’t suggest that. Certainly, I was wrong on several other projections.
b) That I don’t think any team in the NL Central currently looks like a playoff caliber squad. Certainly, someone has to win it …
c) That a Holliday signing for the Cards would change things, and things are pushing along with the idea of Holliday and the Cardinals will reup.
I’m glad I rebounded, though.
toonsterwu - December 18, 2009
just giving you a hard time
Andronicus - December 18, 2009
I'm no Silva fan.
But it will be interesting to see what the Cubs make of him. He is, essentially, the opposite of Carlos Marmol, and Lou could end up really liking Silva as a ‘pen option who doesn’t walk anyone.
DGU - December 18, 2009
sooo what's the OF situation?
Soriano, Fukudome. Does this mean Marlon Byrd will be a cub?
TJ3117 - December 18, 2009
It seems so.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
WHAT ABOUT SAMMIE FULD!!!
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
no problem on the bench
4th outfielder at best. Defensive sub. Not a everyday starter.
TJ3117 - December 18, 2009
Right, which is why...
… some of us think a Reed Johnson/Fuld platoon might work.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I agree
That’s what I am hoping for. But I have a feeling Hendry will give Marlon Bryd a 3 year deal.
TJ3117 - December 18, 2009
I'd take Marlon for two
Maybe three, depending on the dollars.
elgato - December 18, 2009
I was joking.
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
that makes me angrier than Silva
…. and yes i hope i’m wrong.
KyCubsFan - December 18, 2009
368 comments and counting, in less than an hour
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
Well lets what jIm spends this money on...
I’m guessing he will now overpay Marlon Byrd.
DC Cubbie - December 18, 2009
3-years with full NTC...
Should do it.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
dont forget the player option
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
While I'm sure Byrd is the favorite to be the CF.
Guys don’t rule out a trade to get a CF also. We aren’t going to get Granderson but I wouldn’t be suprised to see the Cubs be active again on the trade market.
Unique - December 18, 2009
Good news...
its confirmed that the cubs are getting 9 mill in return with Silva
http://twitter.com/PWSullivan/status/6804620535
Geo4MVP - December 18, 2009
...
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
why yes
yes I am.
If anybody wants me, I’ll be in the angry dome!
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
To the mandatorium!!
PacificCub - December 18, 2009
I sure did
This post made this abortion of a thread worth reading.
Mike Martin - December 18, 2009
Heyman has suggested
6 mil over 2. It’s possible that Heyman’s hearing the Cubs will save 6 mil over 2, which would jibe with the Sullivan report. Even if Heyman is right and it is only 6 mil over 2, that’s still a small savings, and it allows the Cubs to move forard, so I’d be alright with it from that angle.
toonsterwu - December 18, 2009
Yeah...but this is what cubs fans wanted
They wanted MB gone badely and what do you expect?! The GM’s knew Hendry was desperate to trade off MB and I am sure they didn’t feel obligated in any way or form to help out Hendry. However, this may have been the best option for the Cubs.
Geo4MVP - December 18, 2009
Jason Churchill
over at www.prospectinsider.com seems to be saying that Sullivan’s report is correct. If Churchill’s saying it, then I’m hopeful that it is 9mil, as he’s fairly connected on the Mariners side of things. He got the names of the MAriners prospect in the Halladay trade right before anyone else did.
toonsterwu - December 18, 2009
Thats great..
I would have done this trade over trading for Pat the Bat (+Cash)
Geo4MVP - December 18, 2009
just so you know
he’s a hack. always has been. never does any fact checking and gets by off his opinion and sloppy writing style.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
i have had my disagreements with JC before
Well, I haven’t signed up on his new site, so it was on his old website. One thing I will give him credit for is that he does know the Mariners.
toonsterwu - December 18, 2009
I'm going to post a poll on the right sidebar.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
One poll option should be:
Silva? Meh. But still are OK with trade because Bradley is gone.
ctcoff99 - December 18, 2009
And the team didn't just cut Bradley.
Choice should be there for the contingent who just wanted MB released.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
seattle times poll at over 90% in favor
3,000 replies so far – not sure how ti make link live – http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/thehotstoneleague/2010540975_shocker_mariners_trading_carlo.html
doofus cubs guy - December 18, 2009
There's a poll now on the front page of this site on the right sidebar.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
hey its Friday!
post a pole dancer instead
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
Who did you people think we'd get, Halladay?
The meltdown in the Cubs/Milton relationship was so spectacular, and so public, everyone knew Hendry would be desperate to unload him. That left him with no bargaining power, even for a guy who a year ago was an All-Star caliber hitter.
This is a fine deal. It takes a guy whose very presence was, apparently, harming the team’s chances, and sends him elsewhere. The contracts are basically even, so saving $9 million with the payback from the Ms means there’s some added payroll flexibility.
If Silva is terrible they’ll bench or release him. To think he’s going to ruin the season is just ludicrous. Where is he going to start on a team that has Lilly, Zambrano, Dempster, Meyers (all locks) and either Gorzo or Marshall?? Worst case he’s a back of the bullpen guy. Best case, he’s better than Gorzo and Marshall and gives them valuable innings.
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
Meyers?
Unique - December 18, 2009
Ugh, I mean Wells.
I don’t know why I do this, but something about the glorious Randy Myers era sticks in my head whenever I type the kid’s name.
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
That's honestly the third or fourth time I've made that exact mistake.
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
I think most would have "settled" for Poo-holes and Carpenter.
Anything short of that will be called a disaster
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
I was thinking Pujols plus prospects, a draft pick, and cash, personally.
Guess you can’t have everything.
ctcoff99 - December 18, 2009
I'm going to grab some lunch.
Try not to break the internet while I’m gone.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
the babysitter is gone
break out the smut
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Is that Tiger?
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
Holy Hell! That is brillant!
Tangled Up In Blue - December 18, 2009
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHA!
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
my worst fear
is this mistake is compounded by a 3 year deal for Marlon Byrd
DartmouthCubsFan - December 18, 2009
I'm betting
that there’s no way in hell Hendry gets the ok to give Byrd 3 years. IMHO………it’ll be Ankiel, Pods or Crisp. From those three………….I’kk take my chances on Ankiel
plenz - December 18, 2009
Now, a deal like THAT, I would be 100% against.
Doesn’t look like Crisp, I think he’s headed elsewhere.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Now, a deal like THAT, I would be 100% against.
Doesn’t look like Crisp, I think he’s headed elsewhere.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
i dont care who it is
just nothing more than a 1 year deal please
DartmouthCubsFan - December 18, 2009
Now we have two big pitchers named carlos
that’s got to make us better somehow
JMG1984 - December 18, 2009
this photo must have been taken before he had the baby
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
Okay, that made me chuckle.
Thanks.
Canadian Cubs Fan - December 18, 2009
LLOL
(Thats a literal LOL, for those of you who don’t have younger siblings to keep you informed of such internet jargon.)
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
Now, come on.
Here’s a pitcher who could have had a baby:
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Ray King was the first guy to get that line from me
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
IowaCubs- - December 18, 2009
I'm sure the pinstripes will make him look 70 lbs thinner
section229beer - December 18, 2009
that kinda looks like Z
cozmotaylor123 - December 18, 2009
Dos Carlos
Both Venezuelan too
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
Its during an MLB game
theirs gotta be like 40 cameras on the guy.
Zy Toro Young - December 18, 2009
looks like Z will have a sit-up spotter
Andronicus - December 18, 2009
The money makes it palatable
I didn’t imagine it’d be $6M coming back to the Cubs. That’s a nice amount.
Byrd might be another product of hitting in Arlington. I just hope it’s not a 3-year deal.
rgonzale - December 18, 2009
"Byrd might be another product of hitting in Arlington"
He sure is. Check out his splits between home and road. It’s REALLY obvious.
dr stabbingworth - December 18, 2009
Post from the Mariners' SBN...
Lol.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
Fun fact
Winter league hitters are batting .400 off Silva right now in Venezuela. (thanks to @312Sports)
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
does anyone
hit under .400 in winter ball?
plenz - December 18, 2009
Jeeze, you won't even give the guy a chance. He hasn't thrown a single pitch in a Cubs uniform yet and you're bashing him.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
At least Silva hasn't quit on the Cubs, yet.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
I'm givin him a chance
if he’s healthy, gives 180 + innings and keeps his ERA below 5 It’s a good deal
plenz - December 18, 2009
I'll like him better if Hendry can trade Silva while
paying less than half of his remaining contract. Good news is this is still possible.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
who would want silva?
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
I don't know, but this answers the question of
who’d want Bradley.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
we had to take one of the worst players in baseball
to get the other team to “want” him. so, not really
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
sure it does. The answer is "no one, not unless you take an equally large problem off our hands."
But Bradley was more of a problem for this team than Silva would be, so win-win.
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
maybe Hendry will be fired soon
and then another team will be dumb enough to hire him, and then Hendry can reacquire Silva!
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
The "I've always loved Heilman" technique.
Brilliant
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
doubtful there
based on the last 2 years Silva would be lucky to get a spring training invite. I think he’ll be in the rotation………let’s hope for the best
plenz - December 18, 2009
i sure hope not
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
bet you a dollar
he is.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
i have more faith
in gorz and marshall
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
you need to have faith
in Larry and Lou.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
I have faith that they're not very good at their jobs
does that count?
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
As others have said...
I wouldn’t personally pencil him in as an automatic for the #5 slot. At the same time, I’d hate to have a $12 million mop-up guy too.
Maybe it’s not too much to ask to keep his hits allowed under his weight…
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
there's a real record here
you know. Bradley had one too. A good one.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Yeah, medical record
that was real long
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
a playing record.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
I think that record should be broken
when it comes to Drew and MB
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
It's stuck in the groove
Shanghai Badger - December 18, 2009
TWSS
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
I own that exact deck.
AussieCub - December 18, 2009
Yeah, not playing
as in only having more than 500 AB twice in his career.
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
MB Career stats: .277/.371/.450/.82, 115 OPS+
CS Career stats: 4.72 era. 1.409 WHIP. 1.1 Hr/9. He gave up 5 home runs in 30 innings pitched, over eight games last year. That’s one every six innings!
I realize comparing pitchers and position players is a little apples and oranges, but Silva is a step down, not a step up.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
MP Career Avg. Stats:
100 games played per season. So yeah, you are right, he probably would go back to his career norms if we kept him.
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
oops, MB
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
Prediction!
MB will play fewer than 81 games in 2010.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Prediction!
MB will play less than one game with the Cubs in 2010. Okay, maybe that’s not a prediction, but its still awesome to write! And yes, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see your prediction come true.
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
Fun Fact:
Bradley is gone and he was absolutely horrible as a Cub.
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
I Think there's a couple facts in there.
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
Damn, you are right.
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
well
you’ve got one fact, anyway.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Yes, a .257 Avg with 12 HRs and 40 RBIs is a good season
Fun Fact: You’re wrong.
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
HE HAD A GOOD OBP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
And, he had good....
Let me think, hmmm…. there has to be something else? Oh, wait, I got it, he had good excuses!!!
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
he consistently improved every month
save september. There’s every indication that he would return to his career norms, which was plenty more than what we’ll get from Silva.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Drew, there is one thing that will be interesting to watch next year.
MB had to play in a certain number of games in 2009 in order for his 2011 option to vest. In effect, there was a financial motivation for Bradley to play. It will be interesting to see the number of games Bradley plays in during 2010 when there isn’t a financial motivation.
cowsarecool220 - December 18, 2009
oh, come on
that number he had to hit for vesting? 75. The number of games Bradley played in? 124.
And the incentive didn’t say anything about playing WELL. Which, frankly, he did for a significant part of the season.
drewishdrewid - December 18, 2009
Please define "WELL" and "significant".
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Fun fact:
evaluating the play of a player based upon those stats is asinine.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
I like you.
No, seriously. Come back more.
AndrewJStone - December 19, 2009
Maybe we'll be converting Silva into a CF
the new Ankiel. Is he LH?
DGU - December 18, 2009
He's gone so the Cubs can move on -
if it was trading Bradley for $6 million and nothing else I’d be happy – to get the 2010 NL Cy Young winner (after Larry works his magic with him) – is icing on the cake!! Happy Holidays have officially begun!
doofus cubs guy - December 18, 2009
horrible
I would rather have cut Bradley and pay him the $10 mil over the next two years than pay Carlos Silva ~$ 9 mil over the next two years to be a negative value for the team. 0>-5*
They did this to save $1 mil per year and get absolutely nothing back. I’m sick of this team and it doesn’t seem to matter who owns them.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
By all reports, they got an extra $6 or $9 million back.
So, no.
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
no...
Silva makes more… so that’s what gets it into the black for the Cubs.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
He makes $2 million more total over the next two years -- 23 to 21
So, if they got $9mm back, they save $7mm or $3.5/year.
If they got $6mm back, which I think is being reported as a net figure but for now lets assume not, then its $4mm or $2mm/year.
So again, no
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
fine… 2 million… i’d go fix the above to say the same damn thing, if i had an edit button.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
It still makes no sense. Why not do exactly this deal, save $2mm, and cut Silva instead of Bradley?
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
IF
that’s what they do… then i’m ok with it. I’m just not going to get excited over saving a billionaire a couple million dollars they’ve proven they won’t put back into the team… and certainly won’t do it wisely given the the current management.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
They've owned the team for what, 2 months?
They bought into an existing $140+ million payroll.
When exactly did they prove they aren’t going to put money back into the team?
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
tell me
where they’ve put any money into this team now? They only saved $2 million over cutting him, no big deal. If you’re telling me that was stopping them from signing a late-inning reliever or an offensive piece, then how can you tell me they are putting money back into the team?
They missed out on Cameron… Mike Gonzalez… Rafael Soriano… Chone Figgins… Curtis Granderson… Cliff Lee… Roy Halladay. I’m not saying the Cubs should have had all of those, but I’m saying teams were out there picking up guys the Cubs could have used and improving themselves. The Cubs have done nothing… except resign a mediocre left handed pitcher.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
So you'd rather...
Cut Bradley and eat all the money, versus saving over a million a year? Not sure I understand…
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
'Cause releasing MB would teach him a lesson.
He’d be paid his full contract and free to sign with whatever team he wanted to play for. That’d learn him… oh wait!
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
For the league minimum, MB would have had 6-7
options. Each of those GM’s and managers would convince themselves they know how to make it better and believe he wanted to get it right. Then, there is no dollar risk and teams would take the chance.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
Seriously.
Why not do this deal, then cut Silva and achieve the same result plus have the $1 million (even assuming that’s the number, which it isn’t).
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
The real question you have to ask
Is what kind of return could the Cubs have gotten if they had just eaten $14 million on the Bradley deal?
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
Almost certainly less
than if you DON’T eat the full $14 million, and apply the amounts you were willing to eat in pursuit of free agents.
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
to me...
it’s not about the return… Silva presents a negative situation over a guy they could bring up from AAA or the guy they got in Rule V. I’ve watched him pitch in a haven such as SafeCo Field. He’s horrible. cutting Bradley (and now Silva) gets you zero value… employing Silva gets you negative value. There’s no upside to this and there’s nobody left for the Cubs to spend money on. We got bent over by the Mariners GM once again.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
Can't disagree.
n/t
Damen Jackson - December 18, 2009
I understand your point
but I don’t see how you can say there is no upside when the Cubs are saving $6 million. Whether you think there’s anyone worth signing right now or not (and I don’t agree that there’s nobody left to spend money on), that is still at least something positive.
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 18, 2009
because...
they’re still paying a guy $8 million to be a negative value. That’s not better than paying Milton $10 million to be a zero value. Have the Cubs done anything the last two years that proves they can turn $2 million into enough value to counter act that? The only way this makes sense is if they can flip Silva without paying too much of his deal… or just cut him.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
If he sucks too bad, they can release him.
Net gain of the cash. No loss.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
Exactly
The Cubs don’t have to play him, and they save money. And to make another small point, the savings this year should be $3 million, not 2.
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 18, 2009
meh
the actual number doesn’t matter. $2 million, $3 million, $5 million… I don’t have any confidence in this management to make anything out of it.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
if he sucks...
then that’s a loss… it’s a loss on the field. And you have to take that into account. When they use that money (which they could have spent anyway) to improve the team, I’ll re-evaluate then ( but i still don’t accept that premise. This franchise has enough money to make improvements and didn’t need to have $3 extra million before it made even a single improvement on the 2010 roster). But it would be worth it in on-field value to just cut him now and give the spot to a minor-leaguer or Parisi.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
Call me a Conspiracy theorist bust
I find it odd that this trade is being reported the same day that the Mayor of Mesa, AZ was in Chicago too. I bet those new batting cages went to Seattle’s ST complex too.
RiskyBusiness - December 18, 2009
So I didnt get my season tickets from this deal? This trade is horrible!
Yes we got a bad pitcher but we got money. What were you people expecting?
Zy Toro Young - December 18, 2009
This reminds me of
The Bulls Cavs trade of Ben Wallace for Larry Hughes. Everyone Loses! MERRY CHRISTMAS!
TJ3117 - December 18, 2009
Actually, that was a win-win.
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
This is a shitty trade. The Cubs are paying Bradley to hit for Seattle, this sucks.
Merry Frickin’ Christmas!!!!
Jimmyeatworld - December 18, 2009
I got you coal
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
better than
paying him to suck at hitting and be a cancer here…………….
plenz - December 18, 2009
Calm down....
The Cubs paid Bradley to hit for them, and you saw how that worked out.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Best comment today.
Craig in South Bend - December 18, 2009
I'm surprised
at all the negativity concerning this trade. There was no way in hell MB was coming back into that clubhouse in 2010. Plus………..how could anyone expect to get value in return. It had to be a bad contract for a bad contract deal. These 2 bad contracts match up just about perfectly. Let’s go get a CF and see what happens
plenz - December 18, 2009
Granderson is gone
CUBFANINAZ - December 18, 2009
SILVA is the WORST!!11!!!!
He’sfFat, purposefully gives up homerun balls, kicks babies in the face and is in the Twilight Fan Club!
THIS IS THE WORST THIS THAT COULD HAPPEN TO THE CUBS!!!
digitalbenjamin - December 18, 2009
i atleast hope hes on team edward
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
TEAM JACOB 4EVA
digitalbenjamin - December 18, 2009
you wish!
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
Wonderful!
So now the players will be happier while they watch St. Louis take another division crown. Yay!!!!! We should have outright cut Milton if this is the best Hendry could do.
dakoose - December 18, 2009
hey, they might smile their way to 2-3 more victories.
n/t
rgonzale - December 18, 2009
I guess the 9 million makes the deal a little more tolerable.
dakoose - December 18, 2009
Yes, it does.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Is it really 9 million..
dollars?
I was told 2 million is for the buyout clause in his contract and 4 is to even out the salaries.
Doesn’t that mean that the Cubs saved 3 million?
timeforachange2009 - December 18, 2009
All the reports I've seen says the Cubs net $6 million on this deal.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I just heard........
on the Score that the net is $ 3 million. I think you are not factoring in the player option.
timeforachange2009 - December 18, 2009
I dunno, then.
Guess we’ll have to wait for official word.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Maybe they were referring only to the savings for the 2010 season.
As I understand it’s a total of $6 mill over 2 years.
cowsarecool220 - December 18, 2009
I think some people need to step back...
And realize the options that Hendry had. Lets be realistic: the other GM’s will only trade off their trash or they would want $$$ in return with MB. However, Cubs got 9 mill in return along with Silva. IMHO, this move was best for the team.
Geo4MVP - December 18, 2009
Step back and analyze the situation before overreacting?
Brilliant!
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
One thought about money
Silva was signed to a four-year deal. Given that length, is it possible the Mariners took out at least partial insurance on his contract? If so, then if he goes on the DL, the Cubs would get some insurance money. If you’re going to decide between two crappy players, and one of them is more likely to get hurt, deal for that guy.
One more note about Silva: he has an extreme L/R split for his career. As I said on Oct.. 31, put him in the bullpen and use him to start innings (like Heilman in 2009), and hope he can generate enough quality innings to be flipped at the end of the season. OPS+ against is 114 for LH, 86 for RH hitters. Even his terrible 2008, he was decent against righties.
Here’s my suggestion. Start the year with him on the DL while he loses weight at the Arizona training facility. Bring him up as the 7th reliever in May. Protect him against lefties as possible. Stash him on the DL one more time in August. Add him to the roster and give him a start against a bad club in September. Deal him next Fall. That is all.
cubzfan - December 18, 2009
don't forget
the GM who signed Silva to that deal no longer has his job… so don’t assume anything smart came with it.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
and...
i’m thinking the GM who traded for that contract isn’t going to have his job much longer.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
Rec'd
Silva as a ROOGY has potential.
DGU - December 18, 2009
hmmm
if we need him to get a groundball from a right hander, I could see that… that’s a very limited potential for upside.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
but...
ever bringing him in to face a lefty would be disaster.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
As a Mariners fan, no.
Silva pitching in ANY capacity does not belong in the same sentence as “potential.”
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
I thought this might happen
Hendry realized he wasn’t going to get much in terms of talent for Bradley, so he got some money. I didn’t like Silva for Bradley, but Silva + $9 million for Bradley is probably OK.
Make the next signing count, Jimbo.
elgato - December 18, 2009
Rabble Rabble Rabble!
MrNFL - December 18, 2009
almost 600 comments in 90 minutes
looks like this post is on its way to +1000 comments.
So much love for Bradley!
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
How many did the Jake Fox trade get?
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 18, 2009
succinct:
from fangraphs
Andronicus - December 18, 2009
I am sure Jim Hendry lives in fear of the Blogosphere.
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
This Fangraphs guy has it only partially right
Hendry was trying to get player value and salary relief. He appears to have settled for salary relief only.
Qixotl - December 18, 2009
I would value 6 million.
Zy Toro Young - December 18, 2009
he agrees:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/silva-for-bradley
Andronicus - December 18, 2009
1300 comments by 4 PM??
plenz - December 18, 2009
A Cubs GM...
should never, ever do business with Jack Zduriencik again. Please, please, please… I beg of you. My only Christmas wish for the next five years will be to get a GM even half as smart as he is. The dude has it… and for two years now, he’s abused the Cubs.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
sniff. this is the best Christmas ever. sniff
Mapmaker - December 18, 2009
how about
Silva to the Halos for Gary Mathews Jr??
plenz - December 18, 2009
Ack!!!
No Mathews contract is baseball herpes. The gift that keeps ruining your summer.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
Is this really really real????
Greeting from an internet cafe on the outskirts of Luxor
eths - December 18, 2009
Greetings.
Yes. Pinch yourself.
However, we’re still fighting here. Nothing will ever make us happy. We’re terrible fans and worse people.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
** pinch ** ** ouch **
Thanks I needed that…
eths - December 18, 2009
IT'S HAPPENING!?
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
Egypt!
Spent a semester there, love Luxor!
DTJchris - December 18, 2009
Can we just take the 9 million and scrap Silva?
I’d be down for that. Or at least flip him..
Chanman25 - December 18, 2009
Look at my comment up above.
But who in their right mind would want a bloated contract belonging to a bloated person with bloated pitching numbers?
I’d be so happy if Big Jim finds him a home in Orange County or Miami-Dade… but I don’t think it’ll happen.
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
So if the Cubs saved money on this
Could they just see what Silva’s got in ST and if he sucks then they could just cut him and take the money they saved? If they cut him and anther team picks him up for the minimum they save even more money.
gizmo6d9 - December 18, 2009
yes
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
They could do that.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
I'd really be ok with that
It’s better than cutting a check to Milton and paying him for being crazy. At least there’s a shot of Silva getting better moving from the AL to the NL as we often see happen. I don’t know if that small improvement makes much difference, but it might.
Just trying to be “glass half full” here.
gizmo6d9 - December 18, 2009
Well, technically you don't end up saving money
because you have to bring someone else up from AAA and pay them the 400 K…
DGU - December 18, 2009
At least Silva has good control--only 1.7 BBs per 9 innings.
One spring training with Larry and I am sure he will be up to 1 BB/inning.
Work your magic, Larry!!
LAcarl519 - December 18, 2009
Folks: is it just possible that this trade will work out for BOTH teams?
Maybe both players will benefit from the change in scenery and be productive for their clubs. It’s certainly happened in baseball before and can again.
Or Silva may be flipped to another team. There’s still a lot of off-season left.
Why don’t we wait to see what happens before being the judge, jury and executioner all in one.
Hendry apparently can’t win no matter what he does.
Zeke - December 18, 2009
Considering the two players involved, no.
N Oakley - December 18, 2009
I can understand why folks would feel this way.
I’m just hoping it works out for both clubs and both players.
I didn’t like the Bradley signing from the get-go, but I don’t wish him any ill will.
Zeke - December 18, 2009
"Hendry apparently can’t win no matter what he does."
Cmon, seriously? He acquired one of the statistically worst players in baseball in order to get rid of the biggest douche (now that Barry Bonds and Albert Belle have retired)
He doesn’t get “credit” for this. He’s painted himself into a corner thanks to his moves, he doesn’t get points for acquiring bad players in order to get rid of bad contracts.
I’m glad Milton is gone, but this trade hardly removes all blame from Hendry, at least not yet.
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
Hendy takes the blame and owns up to it...
Zeke - December 18, 2009
Link fail. Sorry. Here it is...
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/12/cubs-hendry-takes-blame-for-bradley-fiasco.html
Zeke - December 18, 2009
And obviously, all the quotes are taken out of context by Sullivan...
chilango2 - December 18, 2009
so what is he supposed to be "winning"
you claim he can’t win, I’m saying whether or not he owns up to it, he shouldn’t be given credit for wrecking the roster a couple of years in a row.
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
By winning I meant people were pissed he wasn't doing anything
and when he does, they’re still pissed- even more. Hence my comment.
Can’t win for losing’ sort of thing.
Zeke - December 18, 2009
Its better than nothing
The only other option was to pay cash to the Rays and take Burrell, a player that would have no position and put into a very similiar situation that we are already in with Bradley where we have to trade a player before making any additional moves. Cutting him to prove a point just isn’t worth it to me. It’s not exactly a shocker that signing was an epic failure but moving on this is the best we could do.
As far as our new CF goes, here’s hoping we can go find somebody on the trade market because I still feel like the only quality move was to go get Cameron.
vt3stick - December 18, 2009
yup...
and instead the Red Sox… a competent franchise… got Cameron for a song.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
For a song?????
$15m over 2 years for that guy is ridiculous.
Canadian Cubs Fan - December 18, 2009
I don't know if paying Cameron 7.5M a year for 2 years
was really worth what he would give to the club. Was he the best free agent out there in CF for the Cubs? You could make the argument. But I don’t think for that much.
gizmo6d9 - December 18, 2009
Cammy
only if you’re hung up on Ks and BA can you have a problem with Mike Cameron. Dude is great in the clubhouse, walks a ton, hits homers and plays hall-of-fame level defense in center. He would have been perfect.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
Fully agree
he is a stand up dude and plays amazing defense. But you do have to worry about the day those wheels start falling off. He’s almost 38, I believe, and signing him for 2 years is a risk. At that age they can start to tail off quickly. A one year deal would have been ideal for sure.
gizmo6d9 - December 18, 2009
he'll be 37 at the start of next season
He’s been the same offensive player for the last five years. Right around an .800 OPS with a higher obp or slg depending on what his team needed at the time. And he’d have to fall off precipitously for his defense not to make up for whatever his bat lacked. He’ll hit a ton in Boston.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
I like Cameron
but he wouldn’t have been perfect. He had strong L/R splits that were’t going to be helpful in our lineup. Once I saw Byrd had reverse splits, I decided that put the lesser defender in Byrd above Cameron – for our team.
DGU - December 18, 2009
It's not better than nothing, it is, essentially, nothing.
Carlos Silva is at best a replacement-level player. You got $6M in salary relief, but there’s the marginal cost of having lost a good, if troubled, player.
Wreckard - December 18, 2009
right...
if we’re lucky, it’s nothing…
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
No
Best move IMO was to trade for Granderson
CUBFANINAZ - December 18, 2009
With WHAT????
What would we have offered?
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Vitters
He is a prospect .. I would have done it in a minute .. A prospect for a Proven all star centerfielder who hit 30 homeruns
CUBFANINAZ - December 18, 2009
But it is too late
For Granderson
CUBFANINAZ - December 18, 2009
amazing
how a prospect that is worth nothing to you would be worth another team trading a
“Proven all star centerfielder who hit 30 homeruns”
hansman1982 - December 18, 2009
Reducing salary
plus gaining prospects
CUBFANINAZ - December 18, 2009
Are those the magic words Hendry was supposed to use to get Detriot to take Vitters for him?
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
why would the Tigers take a prospect and someone who doesnt have DLee’s attitude for someone that is in REALLY high demand?
hansman1982 - December 18, 2009
you're asking me? idk, why?
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
I started with a different comment about throwing in a half-eaten pb&j sandwhich is all Hendry needed to include but then thought against that…
hansman1982 - December 18, 2009
The Tigers wanted a major-league-ready CF.
Vitters isn’t that. And the Cubs don’t have one of those.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
OKAAAAAAY. This isn't Playstation man.
santoswoodenlegs - December 18, 2009
Wow - we need an overflow thread for getting rid of Bradley - impressive
malicedoom - December 18, 2009
Overflow thread posted. Jump!
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Something tells me...
…Lou just make himself a pitcher of martini’s and is sitting by his pool celebrating.
MPH73 - December 18, 2009
If I was as incompetent as Lou
and was getting paid high dollar to continuing doing it, every day would be a celebration
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
When I first read this, I read it as "incontinent".
Zeke - December 18, 2009
would also apply
Nunyabidness - December 18, 2009
Just damper...
Zeke - December 18, 2009
Wrigleyville sports
selling Silva jerseys yet?
plenz - December 18, 2009
Just in time for the holidays!
gizmo6d9 - December 18, 2009
Am I the only one who has a job that goes to BCB?
ak123 - December 18, 2009
Today? Apparently, yes ;)
Zeke - December 18, 2009
Its friday.
This just means i’m playing Facebook Scrabble in 1 window instead of two.
AndrewJStone - December 18, 2009
I'm there with you, ak.
Thankfully it’s a slow day here.
Rusty in Peoria - December 18, 2009
Pretending to work all day.
neverAcquiesce - December 18, 2009
Table for 4 at Tango Sur
Party of Zambrano, Silva, Guillen, and Vizquel.
RiskyBusiness - December 18, 2009
PERSPECTIVE?
Many here were suggesting that the Cubs should just cut MB loose and eat the loss. They can do the same to Silva, assuming he’s as bad as many here fear, and we’re still 6 million ahead.
leothelip - December 18, 2009
bingo
They aren’;t going to do that anyway.
Orval Overall - December 18, 2009
agreed...
but if he sucks for us before that, he’s taken even more value away from the team. They have to cut him before he becomes a -$6mil asset, which is likely given the way he pitches. The Cubs have a bad track record when it comes to just cutting players.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
Why do you say the Cubs have a bad record when it comes to just cutting players?
Jim was quick on the trigger for Vizcaino last year and that was when he still had a 0 ERA – unless you’re arguing we should have kept Viz.
DGU - December 18, 2009
gaudin
ended up being a 1.5 WAR player last year and we cut him outright, but it seems the poster is suggesting we’ve been too late to just cut guys outright which would refer to (Neifi… maybe Jacque Jones?)
DartmouthCubsFan - December 18, 2009
Yeah -
We’ve obviously given up too quickly on players in the Hendry-Piniella era, but I have trouble seeing us take too long. Maybe you could argue Barrett – but I’d argue it was worth seeing if he could get his bat going again to raise his trade value.
DGU - December 18, 2009
"we’ve been too late to just cut guys outright"
…and this
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
arguing we should have kept Viz.
this
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
oh no!
Damn it! I just ordered a Cubs Bradley jersey for my wife!
RiskyBusiness - December 18, 2009
Chicago Cubs:
Cancer-free since 2010.
neverAcquiesce - December 18, 2009
For 3 months, until Carlos Silva arrives.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
That remains to be seen.
Enjoy Milton’s first meltdown. You should start a pool as to the date.
Al Yellon - December 19, 2009
I can't wait
for the MB segment of Cub Can of Worms.
Let’s just hope Silva can avoid getting his own chapter in it.
Chuck12570 - December 18, 2009
That's not a can, it's a barrel.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
BEST.CHRISTMAS.PRESENT.EVER
enough said.
Mrs. Zeke - December 18, 2009
Sometimes you gain by what you lose
Cub fans can sit here all day and look at Silva’s stats until they are blue in the face, but he is not going to make or break this team. Bradley was breaking this team. And I have no doubt just to spite the world Bradley will probably be a boy scout for much of the year and put up some gaudy stats in that much-improved lineup and folks on the board will bemoan the absence of his bat and how we should have just kept him.
The fact is this — the good teams the Cubs have had displayed extraordinary chemistry. The 2010 Cubs will likely shape up on paper as less talented than recent years, but the chemistry will be improved, their health will hopefully be improved and that should go a long way.
What I find most disappointing about the Bradley saga is that it consumed so much of Hendry’s energy this offseason and, not to say the guy can’t multi-task, to me the real on-the-field shortcomings have yet to be addressed. It concerns me greatly that Pinella seems to have anointed Theriot as the leadoff hitter. That is terrible. He can’t run, draw walks and, unless he can go back to using all fields, I just think the offense will sputter without a true, natural leadoff hitter. Figgins or Brian Roberts would have had a truly dramatic and positive impact on the entire lineup. I really hope Theriot is not our leadoff guy.
BeltwayCubsFan - December 18, 2009
You’re saying this based on, what exactly? All the time you’ve spent in the Cubs’ clubhouse over the last few years?
“Good chemistry” is something that fans arbitrarily assign to likable teams that win. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, just that we have absolutely no way to know if it does.
Wreckard - December 18, 2009
Just as you have no way of proving it doesn't.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Where did I say I could?
I’m just saying a statement like this:
Is unprovable, and therefore completely without value. Stating it as fact is even worse.
Wreckard - December 18, 2009
You're right that it's not "fact".
But it surely appears to be the case. As it does for most winning teams.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
The key word is "appears"
You’re making two giant leaps here:
1) That teams that appear to get along have good chemistry
2) That good chemistry leads to winning
This ignores completely the fact that most player interaction takes place where we can’t see it, and that there are a lot of losing teams that meet the criteria in 1, and a lot of winning teams that don’t.
Did this year’s Yankees really give you a warm fuzzy feeling of wonderful chemistry? Was this year’s Orioles’ team packed with malcontents, and that’s why they were so bad?
It’s such an incredibly reductionist, post-hoc way of looking at winning and losing in baseball that it completely defies reason to believe you can spot good chemistry and understand its effects from your seat in left field.
Wreckard - December 18, 2009
When you slam me, at least get your facts straight.
Have I ever said that chemistry is the ONLY reason teams win? Or that ONLY winning teams have it? Or that non-winning teams might have good chemistry, too?
Second, don’t assume that I don’t hear or find out things “from my seat in left field” that you might not know, or that I learn but cannot or will not post here.
There is more to winning baseball than WAR, believe it or not.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
No facts here it's mostly conjecture
You said that most winning teams have good chemistry. You said this as though it was somehow a quality different from losing teams. What else would the implication be there?
That tired line again? I’m not even saying team chemistry does or doesn’t exist – I’m chemistry agnostic here Al. I’m just more willing to recognize what things are possible for me to know and what things aren’t.
Woah, now. No need to get defensive, my point was simply that you’re watching the games just like everyone else is. My seats are even closer to the dugout than yours and I would never presume to speak about what the team’s chemistry is because I’m not on the flights, or in the clubhouse, or at the bars with them after.
Wreckard - December 18, 2009
I'm not with the players either.
However, I have heard things and been told things from trustworthy sources about things that you may not have. That’s all I’m saying. I agree with you that chemistry is impossible to measure and may have many causes or effects, on winning and losing teams.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Where were these things
when the question of how the team felt about Bradley was being asked? I don’t remember this amount of certainty about the situation.
Villeslgr - December 19, 2009
Wreckard
I think if the qualification for posting insights is being in the clubhouse it would be a pretty quiet board. Certainly winning breeds chemistry and solves a lot of problems. My point was that much of this thread seems to be viewing the wisdom of this trade based on Silva’s recent performance and seemingly ignoring what a cancer Bradley was. Hendry had a mess to clean up and he cleaned it up. We might not like the cleaning solution he used but the floor is clean
BeltwayCubsFan - December 18, 2009
Posting insights is one thing
Saying you know for a fact or not what teams had good chemistry and what teams don’t is conjecture, nothing more.
Wreckard - December 18, 2009
uh...
didn’t the ’07 Cubs go on a tear right after their #1 starter and starting catcher got in a fistfight?
rgonzale - December 18, 2009
Yabbut
they traded the starting catcher two weeks later, right about the same time they started a big win streak.
I’m not implying causation, but it definitely didn’t seem to hurt.
Goodie1969 - December 18, 2009
chemistry
winning breeds chemistry
not the other way around
DartmouthCubsFan - December 18, 2009
Proof?
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
2008 and 2009 Seattle Mariners are a perfect example.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
thats like asking if the chicken or the egg came first – chemistry will breed overachieving (i.e. 2008 Rays), winning will breed the never say never attitude (i.e. 2008 Cubs) which generally never hurts chemistry.
hansman1982 - December 18, 2009
and losing will breed poor chemistry regardless
hansman1982 - December 18, 2009
Hey to could be worse...
Hendry might have kept MB AND managed to get Silva in another deal…
Then we’d have a pair of high prices boat anchors…
Endrick - December 18, 2009
My only wish....
I wish the deal was Bradley AND Hendry for Silva……. That I could almost live with….
James031 - December 18, 2009
what a horrible move
This is what all you dumb asses wanted..bradley for anybody..problem is this guy is even worse…2 wins in seattle…2 fucking wins…silva is garbage…and some cubs fans who think they know baseball,dont know anything….now we need two outfielders because dome isnt going to be the guy in right all year..and another starter .great move jim,and way to free up that money to make some moves…im physical sick right now. il bet silva dont even make the fucking club..
LightsOutVegas - December 18, 2009
I'm sorry you're "physical sick"...
But maybe what your potty-mouth doesn’t understand is that this trade has NOTHING to do with Carlos Silva helping the 2010 Cubs. This trade was to dump Bradley and save a few million doing it, Silva just happens to be the guy it took to make Gameboard go away.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
+1
sue369 - December 18, 2009
Makes no difference
what Silva does. It’s like releasing Bradley and getting 9 million bucks back.
If we can turn that money into a center fielder, we’ve won.
Even if Silva never throws a pitch for the Cubs.
Clark Addison - December 18, 2009
Bingo
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
no...
it’s like releasing Bradley and getting 6 million back spread over 2 years. The Cubs still have to pay Silva.
If the Cubs turned that money into Mike Cameron, it would have been a win… if they turn that money into Marlon Byrd… not sure.
jameslcrockett - December 18, 2009
Thank goodness this
trip is over. I had doubts MB would get traded. Good luck in Seattle MB. We get a bad pitcher so be it. This is the true addition by subtraction and gain a net of 6 million.
No issues, now we won’t have post/fanposts littered with Milton Bradley bullshit.
Keep Dome in center, go get Dye for right.
Grockcubs - December 18, 2009
dye is godawful in RF
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
One of the worst RF'ers...
In baseball last year.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
Hendry got rid of a player that almost no one IN THE CLUBHOUSE defended when the Cubs suspended him for the end of the season
He got money in return. Did you really think he was going to be able to do that without picking up a terrible player?
If you doubt Bradley’s reputation in baseball, consider this: The Cubs were basically advertising their interest in a Bradley trade on an interstate billboard, and almost no one was interested — not even teams who are run on sabermetrics.
cocknfire - December 18, 2009
Not only did they not defend him...
They applauded the move… literally.
CubsBullsBears - December 18, 2009
Merry X-mas
Now that the MB saga is finally over, we can all sit down and reflect on this past year and enjoy our holiday season. Then when the holiday season is over, we can all sit back and wonder who the hell is gonna play CF!!! I think Reed Johnson just became an everyday player for the Cubs. Could be worse, I guess. Right?…RIGHT!?!?
Easy Ed - December 18, 2009
Fantastic move!
Really, why does JH still have a job? It would’ve better for them to keep Bradley and work out the differences in-house. This makes the lineup and the pitching worse in one deal….pure garbage.
propheteer - December 18, 2009
Honestly...
It’s hard to work out differences in house when it’s practically guaranteed that every time you go up to the plate AT HOME you get chewed out by everyone in the ballpark. Some players can deal with it, perform well, and negate the fan hate. Bradley is not one of them.
windycitywarrior - December 18, 2009
Well if
everyone thought Bradley was booed with malice, I can’t wait to see what the fans reaction is when Silva lose, and lose some more.
propheteer - December 18, 2009
*loses and loses some more*
propheteer - December 18, 2009
The St. Louis Cardinals...
the Brewers, Astros, Pirates and Reds all approve of this trade.
CubFanSince1970 - December 18, 2009
No joke here
but before I got back from school, I seriously thought about a Bradley trade to Seattle. But in my thoughts, I daydreamed that he was traded with Ryan Theriot for Cliff Lee! I guess I was part right, seeing that traded him for a pitcher.
braziliancubsfan - December 18, 2009
Burrell Deal Better?
Let’s say the Cubs did eat pretty much all of MB’s contract for 2011, which they obviously were balking at (on Ricketts orders, me thinks) would it not have been better than getting Silva? I’m not saying it would be, just wondering out loud…
Canadian Cubs Fan - December 18, 2009
This deal obviously made more financial sense, which is why it was done instead of the other one.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
Yeah, the inclusion of $4M is the only thing...
making this palatable. But that only works if the Cubs spend that money wisely elsewhere.
Shawn Domagal-Goldman - December 18, 2009
You are correct.
Let’s see what happens with it.
Al Yellon - December 18, 2009
The thing I hate about this trade...
is that Carlos Silva is also a “clubhouse cancer.” He created problems in his time in Seattle, and we basically just made a trade for one of the most overpaid pitchers in baseball. When the justification of doing so is to improve the atmosphere in the clubhouse, and the guy you’re getting has also had problems in the past, it doesn’t look good.
Shawn Domagal-Goldman - December 18, 2009
I don't think Silva
will be a Cub very long. Even if they release him, they are $6 million ahead of where they would have been had they released Bradley. That $6 million will help buy somebody good.
Clark Addison - December 18, 2009
I wonder if that might be exaggerated.
As I recall, Ichiro was being called selfish during the disappointing 2008 Mariners season. The bottom line is that team stunk and things got ugly.
Silva pitched for the Twins for several years and that is a team that is well-known as being a pretty tight-knit group. I don’t recall any thing being reported about attitude issues when Silva was with the Twinkies.
Hopefully, Silva will come to the Cubs Convention next month and we will get a chance to hear from him.
cowsarecool220 - December 18, 2009
I guarantee...
That Carlos Silva is not a “Cancer” in the clubhouse. He is a total stand-up guy. Unfortunately, he is a historically shitty pitcher though…
mutleyil - December 18, 2009
In 2008 he was a huge cancer in the M's clubhouse.
redwolf75 - December 19, 2009
Silva for Brian Roberts, straight up, start the rumors.
dakarl32 - December 18, 2009
Welcome to the Chicago Cubs School of Business, class!
Today in Being a General Manager 101 we will learn:
1) How to sign mentally fragile players to enormous contracts to play in highly intense media markets under which they are sure to whither.
2) How to bad-mouth your own players for months on end and indicate to any potential trade partners that you have no leverage whatsoever.
3) How to let drunk, frat-boy deuschbags in the outfield determine the suitability of who is to receive welcome within the “friendly confines of Wrigley Field.”
and 4) How to use irrationally and emotionally based evaluative methods for team construction and player worth, irrespective of those pecky details like statistics.
We also offer a elective pysch courses in “trading valuable assets for pieces of crap and feeling good about it.”
I’m Jim Hendry and I’ll ge your instructor this term….
CubsWin!Oregon - December 18, 2009
A Cubs fan (who is also a Twins Fan) scouting report on Carlos Silva
Alright guys, I hate delivering bad news, but unfortunately today was a bad day for the Cubs. I grew up in Minnesota…I’ve been a Twins fan since the days of Kirby Puckett. I watched every pitch Carlos Silva threw from 2004-2007. And here is what you are getting. One of the absolute worst pitchers in the history of baseball!!! His sinker works once in a while, but never for a full season. If his ERA is under 6.00 it will be a miracle. Jim Hendry is a historically bad GM, and I pray this is the move that will kill him forever…
mutleyil - December 18, 2009
Cards Fan with a question
With Bradley gone who do you guys expect to sign to replace him?
FlimtotheFlam - December 18, 2009
a scrub like byrd or pods probably
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
Byrd has huge home vs away splits
FlimtotheFlam - December 18, 2009
i dont have much faith in him
but id gladly eat crow
jesus christos - December 18, 2009
If I'm not mistaken, I've got the soapbox for comment 1000
I’m stuck in a hotel room in Indiana .. and the most wonderful time of the year brought me my Christmas present on ESPN’s report on Seattle, which I randomly tuned to.
“Milton Bradley – Traded By Cubs.”’
I’m preaching tommorrow and don’t know if I can fit this into my sermon. I’ve got more important things to share in that .. but it’s tempting ..
cubnational - December 19, 2009
You could always try II Corinthians 6:14.
It’s a stretch, I’ll admit, but it has potential.
Goodie1969 - December 19, 2009
I feel your pain
cubnational. I’m in a scuzzy motel in Atlanta with the world’s slowest internet connection. Someday I may actually make it to Boston. No matter, this week is pain free now that we know for sure MB is gone gone gone.
Emelie - December 20, 2009
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