Bleed Cubbie Blue

Arrr, looks like you beat me to it matey

katie casey - December 9, 2009 reply

I'll share :-)

Captain Milton!

Captain Milton?

What would his boat be? The Titanic? The Lusitania? The Edmund Fitzgerald? The USS Maine?

Chadnudj - December 9, 2009 reply

The Gordon Lightfoot

Jerry told Elaine that it was sunk when it hit the Cat Stevens . . .

Ha,

It collided in dense fog with the Stockholm 12 miles off the coast of Nantucket. It’s in my book, “Astonishing Tales of the Sea”
—Kramer

tripdenten - December 9, 2009 reply

hey

that’s different than the one SWL did. That’s kinda awesome. Excellent boots.

Thar be some booty buried near the dugout

Red X! Arrrgh!!

A plague upon my browser!

Get it done, Jim!!!

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

photo caption

"Got a little Captain in You?"

katie casey - December 9, 2009 reply

Paul Sullivan says on WSR this morning

That Kansas City, Texas and Baltimore no longer have interest in a Milton Bradley swap. He goes on to say the only way a deal happens is with Tampa Bay right now…and only if the Cubs take Pat Burrell and make up the difference between the $20 million still owed Bradley and the $8-9 million still owed Burrell.

So it will take assumption of Pat Burrell and throwing in $12 million to get rid of Milton.

BLou - December 9, 2009 reply

Sullivan doesn't always know what the hell he's talking about

If that really is the option, they are better off cutting MB, saving the roster spot and the $20M.

*posted too soon

Obviously they wouldn’t save money. Still, might as well leave the roster spot for someone else.

Doesn't mean that Burrell couldn't be traded later.

True, but there is no guarantee

And what would they get for him?

Good question.

It’s not impossible. Maybe he has a good spring and someone’s DH gets hurt and a team that doesn’t need him now would come asking.

But couldn't that be said for Bradley as well?

And isn’t his upside higher?

But that's not the issue.

Bradley can’t stay no matter how high his upside is.

That isn't really true, though.

That is what you want, but it isn’t a matter of fact.

What bugs me about this whole thing is everybody’s willingness to downgrade the team significantly in terms of real, feasible talent (the kind that helps win rings) in order to get rid of a guy who, while a real pain in the ass, hasn’t necessarily made the team any worse.

The forgone conclusion seems to be this team can’t win because of Bradley, but Bradley isn’t the reason the team was bad this year. In a desperate effort to rid ourselves of him, its going to become less likely that the team does well and reaches that goal that we’ve all been hoping for: the world series.

I guess i just don’t get that trade off. I know he’s a dick and all, but if you are willing to take on ONE guy who won’t be of any use and hope he turns it around, why not do the same with the other guy, who is better at baseball?

Maybe liking the team is more important to some people than it is to me. I guess that is fine. We all appreciate the sport in our own way. I just don’t want to see the team get worse.

I guess i just don’t get that trade off. I know he’s a dick and all, but if you are willing to take on ONE guy who won’t be of any use and hope he turns it around, why not do the same with the other guy, who is better at baseball?

Because it’s easier for some people to cut off their noses to spite their face.

Statz

.257 BA with 40 RBI in 124 games. He’s not one of the reasons we were bad last year?

Come on, Ben - that was the media's fault.

don't forget the racist fans

The two months and the last month of the Season doesn't count for Bradley

I mean it’s like golf, you can take a muligan whenever you want. I mean only look at his numbers from 1 June till 18 June, what he hit like .300/400/.800? I mean that alone is the reason we should keep him.

The First Two Months and the last month

Post failure.

His stats were outstanding

Well worth the 10 million he got last year.

I was shocked when Both Fox and Fronty had about the same amount of RBI’s. They must have had HUGE seasons.

True almost the same RBI's

But Fox and Fonty weren’t as valuable because they didn’t pay in as many games.

That's true, If the other two had the same amount of AB's, they would totally made him look bad.

Wait a minute, he did it to himself.

yes

he’s one of the reasons. But he’s not THE reason. Which a lot of people are making him out to be.

I don't know

I heard his cancer infected Soriano, Soto, Ramirez, Fonty….

Of course. He tripped Ramirez, overfed Geo with twinkies, and told Fonty to just be who he probably is. Oh and Soriano, well he’s Sori, good with the bad.

overfed Geo with twinkies

ha

Actually, I have yet to see one comment that says he is

This is one of those topics where people think it’s binary. Anyone who has anything at all critical to say about MB is portrayed as thinking he’s the anti-Christ, and anyone who says anything positive about him is portrayed by others as saying he’s the best ever.

Then it spirals into personal attacks or other such nonsense.

that's very true

Bradley had an off year. Soriano and Soto had horrible years.

But even though Bradley wasn’t the reason the Cubs underachieved on the field, the bad mojo between him and the Cubs make a trade necessary.

That said, Milton for Carlos Silva sent shivers down my spine.

Ok, but then by that logic...

… i assume we are doing our best to move Soriano and Soto?

nothing like ignoring the other factors right?

Like Soto being a drug user?

Bradley tosses a ball into the stands and fans ride him for it all season. Soto does drugs and people make Cheetos jokes.

Soriano

talking about showing up for work not “prepared”. that’s a reason to shop him, right?

Look, i still haven't seen how MB's being a jerk has tangibly hurt this team in any way beyond fan and media perception.

He hasn’t cost them any undue amount of money for his production levels, he hasn’t directly and measurably hurt the performance of any other players, he hasn’t turned off fans to the point they’ll tune out / stop spending, he hasn’t committed any moral sins that the Cubs can’t afford to be associated with…

In general, he is just an insufferable dude that nobody likes. And that counts for something. It ABSOLUTELY counts for something. It’s important. But the thing about it is, it can’t be quantified. We all know there is clubhouse chemistry, and we all know it means something, but nobody knows exactly WHAT it means. Nobody can put a number to it. Nobody can harness its powers to take a team to unexpected levels. So while we know MB’s attitude means something, we DON’T know how that something affects what takes place on the field.

We do, however, know how well he plays baseball. And he’s good at it. Now, he had a rough couple of months towards the end of the season, but we don’t dump players over a rough couple of months if they have the potential to be good again. You need only look as far as left field for proof of that. Fact is, Bradley is better at baseball than the guys we are seeing mentioned in trades so far. Now, if a trade is offered that helps the team get better, i’m in. Always! But thus far, everything we’ve seen in some way gives the team i cheer for, in every tangible and measurable way, less of a chance of succeeding in 2010 and beyond.

So at this point, the majority seems content to trade on-field production and potential for an intangible likability, apparently because they believe this new found likability is either more valuable to their experience as a fan than on-field success, or because they believe on field success can be greatly affected by one players locker room likability.

I don’t object to either of these lines of thinking. Really. I get both, and i fully understand i’m in the minority in believing that i’d rather see the more talented, useful team on the field on opening day. I appreciate that everybody loves baseball in different ways, from different angles. I marvel at your patience, as i’d be totally straight with celebrating a world series win with Bradley or any number of unlikeable guys on the field. But it all makes sense to me. I get why you feel the way you do.

I just don’t agree.

good comments

One other point, though …

The Cubs signed Milton to be something he isn’t — namely, a left-handed Aramis Ramirez. Milton performed best when he hit second, and he’s never been a big RBI guy.

Milton was a square peg on the Cubs for SO many reasons. Setting aside his performance, he DIDN’T get a fair shake early on. But he pretty much validated a lot of the early booing and criticism by being such a jerk later in the year.

At this point, I’m resigned to the fact that he won’t be a Cub next year — and I’m OK with that because I think all the problems from last year WOULD start affecting his performance. I think that’s what happened in the last month or so for him.

Right.

I think regardless of Bradley’s antics, the most true thing he said all year was that he didn’t like all the attention. He signed in the wrong place if he wanted that. It seems fairly clear that all the attention was affecting his performance.

The Chicago Cubs are just the wrong fit for him.

That’s fair, but there’s two sides to a signing and right now the blame is only falling on one side.

Don't worry, we all blame Hendry, too.

The 2008-2009 offseason was magical for Jim Hendry. Never has one man had so many decisions blow up in his face simultaneously. Not one thing worked.

Correct.

He’s being given a chance to fix those problems. So far so good with the dumping of the Aarons.

Why isn’t Bradley being a chance to fix his problems in Chicago? Obviously he crapped all over the place last year and at the end behaved like a child. However, if i’m in control of the team, I want to sit down with him discuss the situation and try my best to get him on the same page as everyone else and make the next year better (something that should have been done before we signed him, and i doubt was actually done).

And yes this involves Hendry swallowing some pride, but he should have been well aware he was signing a player who could be called immature and it would be up to him (Hendry) to be the adult in the relationship.

If Bradley was who we thought he was, we shouldn’t have signed him or we should have been better prepared to deal with the situation.

Why isn’t Bradley being a chance to fix his problems in Chicago?

One reason is because he does not want to stay in Chicago

Players play in town they don't want to be in all the time.

If it was up to them, they’d all play for the Miami Heat, the LA Dodgers, the NY Yankees, or the San Diego Chargers.

It's a legit answer to the question, though

He doesn’t WANT that chance to redeem himself.

Yeah except people are also wanting to get mad when Jim’s moves now are being criticized and their response is well we have to get rid of Bradley so this has to be done. Seems like the fact that Jim brought him here is being ignored in hopes that Jim can bring us back some magic beans for Bradley in a trade.

It's called...

…buyer beware, and the Cubs failed miserably in their due dilligence.

I don’t blame Bradley one bit for signing the contract, as it was by far the best offer he had. It’s on the Cubs for offering it to him.

The cubs also, i believe, hinted that...

… they believed Milton’s attitude, his “edge”, may help the team take a more aggressive attitude in to the playoffs. So yes, its very clear that, from top to bottom, the Cubs failed to adequately understand, prepare for, and harness the advantages of their $30 million dollar investment. And they are now likely going to pay dearly for those mistakes.

I’m resigned to the idea that he’ll be traded as well. The team is a business, and isn’t dumb. They know my feelings on this are the minority. They have an ear to the ground, they read the papers and the tweets and everything and they fully comprehend the likelihood of exactly what Al foresees if Bradley stays: a media circus. They know they either have to endure that, or endure the consequences of dumping him for pennies on the dollar. And they are taking the pill that is easier to swallow.

Keeping him brings a lot of negative attention and muddy vibes to the team. And that is important. That undoubtedly has some small effect on the team’s outcome. We just can’t measure it. And i’d prefer to keep the guy that is better at the things we can measure and understand.

FWIW...

… i believe chemistry is probably like batting order, which, once somebody actually put numbers to it, was found out to be minimally effective in altering the outcome of a game.

Obviously, tangible numbers haven’t been put to chemistry in that way yet, and i could be wrong. I’m open to that idea. I just won’t believe it without some reasonable and plausible evidence.

I know the Cubs thought Bradley's "edge" or "attitude" might have helped them.

That was misguided thinking.

Setting aside his performance, he DIDN’T get a fair shake early on. But he pretty much validated a lot of the early booing and criticism by being such a jerk later in the year.

Or maybe the early bs validated his being a jerk later on? I don’t agree with Milton’s actions, but let’s not forget many didn’t want him here to begin with and were just waiting for a reason to jump on him. If I were in his shoes I’d be pretty pissed as well.

Undoubtedly.

When you are on a guy for his bad attitude before it is even displayed, what do you expect? It was a cycle last season, with fans, media, and player all feeding off each others frivolous spinning in the mud.

And the team was the ring leader that should have seen this coming and either signed somebody more level headed, or put protection in place to prevent their $30 million dollar investment from getting in to that cycle.

You haven't

because no one can show it. Obviously Bradley has issues but it seems people are taking his antics and words personally, while at the same time not wanting to allow him to take certain taunts and criticisms personally.

That's part of the gig, though.

It’s part of being a professional baseball player. You shouldn’t let booing or heckling rattle you. And even if it does, on occasion, you can’t let that reaction happen over and over and eventually come to define your entire career.

Good at Baseball

I disagree, he is OK at baseball, and got a gift of a contract from Jimbo.

He's good...

… compared to the guys you’d see replacing him, based on the rumors thus far.

+1

DC Cubbie - December 9, 2009 reply

You raise valid points...

…but this issue is beyond winning and losing, and Hendry chose that path when he suspended Bradley and everyone knew he was going to be traded. It would be different if Bradley was suspended and then everyone hashed out the problem (early on) and forged a path to move on with Bradley in tow. Since that hasn’t happened, and no effort has been made in this area, this is all about Hendry saving face with his club and needing to move Bradley badly.

What I woudn’t doubt is happening here, is maybe Ricketts has told Hendry he shouldn’t have painted himself in a corner, because he is only willing to pick up a certain percentage to move Bradley, I don’t know. Either way, this is just a messy situation that was horribly mismanaged from offering him the contract to this point.

Unfortunately, since that corner has already been painted...

…. Ricketts has to give Hendry enough to let him get out; if he doesn’t then he (Ricketts) has to get in the corner with Hendry.

I would prefer to think

Ricketts is telling Hendry he’s not getting in that corner with him and that Ricketts needs to prove himself by getting himself (Hendry) and the team out of this mess he created. This mess is not Ricketts fault.

No, it's not.

But if he doesn’t get out of it by paying what it’ll take to get rid of Bradley, then it becomes Ricketts’ problem, too.

I guess I just feel whether he gets out of it now or later is inconsequential. Right now everyone knows we don’t want Bradley back, if we bring him back and can get him started off good, trade him then. This is of course if the players would not mind him coming back, which I haven’t seen definitive evidence on.

I still haven’t heard any players say they don’t want Bradley back.

And you won't. Get real man, players aren't going to do that.

+1

Image is just as important as production to players. You never want to go out and say “i can’t work with this guy”, teams will have concerns that the guy can’t play with anyone

Players don’t have to come out and say I hate Milton. I would expect to hear some kind of rumblings about how much trouble he caused in the lockerrooom. We hear that he isolated himself, which to me isn’t exactly being a cancer.

And...

…you never will.

That’s just how things work.

Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 9, 2009 reply

I wouldn't exactly say they were in his corner either

Cubs players were generally unsympathetic to Bradley’s plight. Several disputed his assertion the media was hounding him.

"When you say everybody is out to get you and reporters are always looking for you to stick a microphone in your face, if you notice they’re always looking for you, maybe you’re always looking for them," Dempster said.

Aramis Ramirez, who believes Bradley will be gone next year, agreed with Hendry’s decision.

"If you don’t want to be here, send him home," he said.

Derrek Lee said Bradley had a lot of pent-up frustration and "didn’t let it out the right way" with his angry diatribes.

"From our standpoint, nobody was making an effort to isolate him from groups," Reed Johnson said. "For the most part, that was his choice."

Turn it green.

Excellent

Rec’d

“When you say everybody is out to get you and reporters are always looking for you to stick a microphone in your face, if you notice they’re always looking for you, maybe you’re always looking for them,” Dempster said.

If I recall Bradley mentioned he was avoiding reporters because he knew he got in trouble with his mouth in the past and then was made to talk to the reporters by the team?

The rest of the quotes sound like they were responses to questions asked about things Bradley had said, maybe the interview that got him sent home? They still don’t come across as burnt bridges.

I’m not against getting rid of Bradley, and honestly think him not being here would be the best solution if we don’t just end up taking back trash and losing money, but I think it’s a mistake and possibly not true to say Bradley can’t come back next year.

Gordo seems pretty confident in what he's saying

And Bruce Miles said a trade could happen today.

running out of teams!.....

JB 23 - December 9, 2009 reply

I like it, waiting for the other foot to drop

Let’s hope it happens tonight (or by the time I wake up tomorrow).

AussieCub - December 9, 2009 reply

I think the mystery team is Detroit

with Dontrelle Willis coming in exchange.

Seven years too late

The Cubs could have used his arm in 2003.

they had enough arms in 2003

Could he have turned a double play at short in Game 6?

Without Dontrelle Willis, do the Marlins even make the playoffs in 2003?

do we make the playoffs without Matt Clement?

By comparison

Matt Clement (2003): 14-12, 4.11 ERA, 171 K’s
Dontrelle Willies (2003): 14-6, 3,30 ERA, 142 K’s, Rookie of the Year

If we had not dealt Willis before he came up to the majors and he put up those numbers for us in 2003, we wouldn’t have missed Clement at all in 2003. The Marlins certainly would have. The difference between Florida or Houston winning the Wild Card was four games. We may have also had a slightly better final record that season and we would have made the playoffs in 2003. We likely would have won the pennant as well.

You're assuming that

Dusty would have managed Dontrelle better than he managed Juan Cruz.

without looking at the stats any deeper ...

I have no problem with this trade. Clement beat Pittsburgh on the season’s final Saturday AND beat Willis in the playoffs (unless my memory is way off).

Also, I don’t think you can assume the Marlins wouldn’t have won the Wild Card if they had Clement instead of Willis. Also, why do you assume the Cubs could have easily handled Houston (or the Giants)?

Revisionist history.

At the time of the trade, Willis was thought of as a prospect who might make the major leagues by 2005 or so. There wasn’t one person who would have told you at the time of the deal that Willis would have been a 14-game winner in the major leagues that year.

The Marlins could afford to put him directly in the major leagues, as they had had five straight losing seasons. And even at that, he spent a month in the minors in 2003 before being recalled.

Willis had not pitched above A ball before 2003.

I may be generalizing, but the Marlins have

a history of taking young players, pitchers and position, and throwing them to the majors in a sink or swim trial by fire.

The early chance to start combined with Willis’ mechanics worked for the Marlins. Are we to truly believe Dusty would have given Willis the ball and start a half dozen games on normal rest as a fresh called up rookie?

I doubt a veteran loving manager like Dusty, or Lou for what it’s worth, would do it unless they thought the cupboard was bare.

stuartscottslefteye - December 9, 2009 reply

Make it green

Then Rami doesn't get his granny

but your point is understood.

Problem is D-train has left the station.

blackhawk24 - December 9, 2009 reply

all I want for christmas

is not a gameboard.

deployedcubfan - December 9, 2009 reply

DeRosa to the Twins?

La Velle Neal of the Minneapolis StarTribune thinks they are.

MN exile - December 9, 2009 reply

who will then flip him back to Chicago???!?!?!?!!!

Then we'll flip Burrell

FOR WOOD!!!

Interesting and completely random thought...

anyone know what Wood’s batting stats with the Cubs were compared to MB’s?

jthack - December 9, 2009 reply

Yikes. There are usually

conflicting rumors, but this is getting crazy.

I’m growing more concerned ridding the team of MB requires cutting him, freeing him to sign anywhere. So, two questions for the crowd:

1. Does it make more sense to trade him, instead of just cutting him, to the AL for a low/marginal minor league player and eat 90% of the contract to keep him from the Cardinals?

2. Can the Cubs still afford Cameron if they have to eat the ole 96er of Bradley’s contract?

Answer to #2

Depends on what kind of deal Cameron wants.

I'm assuming one where he's paid and the checks don't bounce, but

further assuming between $5m and $7.5M for at least 1 year with an option.

I’m assuming one where he’s paid and the checks don’t bounce

Picky b@stard!

I wouldn't cut him until

Bay and Holliday have signed and see if the market grows then.

If Bay signs with the Rsox, Matsui with the Wsox, Holliday with Cards, Vlad with the Angels, well, then a team like the Yankees might have interest in Bradley if they don’t now.

it's frustrating ...

that the Cubs won’t move on CF until they ditch Milton.

It depends

if there’s an understanding with Cameron, this could be a way to save money. Or it could rather be a sense of trying to take stock of what we get back in return. If we have to keep Castillo or Burrell or a SP it could change where we spend the rest of our money in the offseason.

It's much like how they wouldn't move on RF until Sammy was gone.

We watched a ton of great OF options change teams via free agency while Jim worked on moving Sammy. And then we got Jeromy Burnitz.

The team’s unwillingness to take on even the smallest risk of large-ish salaries overlapping for any period of time is so shortsighted.

Except if they can't unload Bradley

then Cameron may be out too.

Nah, let the Cardinals have him

Then trade all our baseball writers to St. Louis for a PTBNL (pundit to be named later).

aldimond - December 9, 2009 reply

I know, Water over dam,

water over the bridge, whatever. Jimbo you signed this guy with baggage littered all over the freaking tarmac, he became a pain in the ass like he has for the majority of his career. Your baby now Jimbo, Get It Done!!. At this point IMO, I don’t give a damn what the return is, get him off the team, so everyone can move forward.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/3047

that you, Crane?

Wow

That is the first I saw that, thanks. MB is wearing me out, like he did the day he was signed.

I'd guess...

…Crane was reflecting how Rickett’s was feeling abouth this whole thing, and I’d bet that would be not being all too happy about the dough they will have to eat.

I like the idea of flipping MB to the Orioles for Pie.

The symetry is perfect.

water goes over a dam and under a bridge

reference Charlie Wilson’s war

deployedcubfan - December 9, 2009 reply

Phil Rogers on WGN

Doesn’t believe Milton will be moved today. However, everything he said after this statement was absolutely stupid, so take that as you will.

Redundant

Phil Rogers

everything he said after this statement was absolutely stupid

+1

ha!

Much of what he says does not happen

He’s about as useless as Carrie Muskat.

And, sometimes when he says things won't happen, they do.

true

wow

is there a sports writer in the city that BCB actually likes?

Bruce Miles

Bruce Levine

BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE

tony412 - December 9, 2009 reply

Yes, teh Bruce is good

Worf

Bruce Springsteen

aldimond - December 9, 2009 reply

FWIW

Sharon, the WBEZ sports lady, just said she doesn’t think [name redacted] will be moved. But she’s a little old lady, so take it with a grain of salt.

I didn't even know WBEZ...

… had a “sports lady”.

Actually, her name is Cheryl, not Sharon

and the WBEZ page is being stupid and won’t let me look her up. She does sports reports for the local morning magazine.

I flipped a coin

Heads he goes, Tails he stays.

Drumroll……….

Heads!

tony412 - December 9, 2009 reply

Are you sure the coin

didn’t land on it’s side?

RynoHoF - December 9, 2009 reply

or hit the table, cuz thats interference...

blackhawk24 - December 9, 2009 reply

Heads or Tails???

What else you got????

Zeke - December 9, 2009 reply

If JJ Putz is healthy and cheap

Any interest out there?

An incentive laden deal is all I ask for. If the price is too high, no thanks. But I think he’s worth a shot. Not sure what the market for him will be

I'd take a flier on him

I would to

the guy was hurt in NY, and they hounded the hell out of him. The guy was excellent in Seattle, I would take a shot.

Another Ex-Met Pitcher ???

Do I smell another Aaron Heilman ? Let’s not go in this direction. One ex-Met was enough.
We have enough in-house candidates that are much better options than this guy.

ceegeewow - December 9, 2009 reply

Who cares that he's an ex-Met?

This thinking baffles me every time I come across it.

By your logic, you wouldn’t want Johan Santana if he were available.

I couldn't agree more.

Hell, I’d be willing to take Pedro if the price was right.

The price was certainly right 4 months ago.

Putz

Is going to the White Sox

Link

Is that official?

We know how Kenny Williams likes to deny deny deny

(simulated press conference)

Reporter: Hey Kenny, can you tell us what you’re looking at for the leadoff position
KW: Well we’re looking at a lot of players, keeping our options open
Reporter: We heard rumors of you trying to resurrect Jesus and have him as the DH next year. Any truth?
KW: Any player that can help this organization win a world series is being taken into consideration (WINK WINK, NUDGE NUDGE). Jesus is a great player but he’s not the only one we’re looking at

MLBTR, it exists

I'd only heard rumors

Nothing official

Definitel if healthy

He could be great.

From Bruce Miles

No “mystery” team

That is bunk. From what I hear, you can eliminate the AL West. Jim doesn’t do stuff like leaking that kind of information or misinformation. It usually comes from other parties. We’ll see. I had one baseball guy ask me this morning what happens when the Cubs are still stuck with Bradley right before spring training starts. I don’t even want to think about that.
Posted by Bruce on Wed, 12/09/2009 – 09:17 Link

This is really interesting.

Bruce says that Jim wouldn’t leak a “mystery team.” The Rays and Rangers have no reason to leak a mystery team. Is the conclusion then that Wittenmeyer just made it up – or was take by a source?

There's one good writer in Chicago

That’s Bruce Miles

Good question

At dinner last night, I heard from a source of my own that while several teams had been ruled out, there will still some out there that would constitute a surprise, at least to us.

Bill Potter - December 9, 2009 reply

One thing that I like about Hendry...

… is that he doesn’t blab this stuff all over the place like some other GM’s. I’m guessing he gets respect from others because of that.

I would imagine so.

It would be infuriating (to me at least) to be working on a trade only to have the other GM leak those details, which in turn only creates more of a headache in trying to complete the deal.

Bill Potter - December 9, 2009 reply

Hendry wouldn't leak it...

…but other people close to the Cubs would.

What’s happening here is pretty clear; the Cubs have absolutely no leverage in trying to trade Bradley, and if it’s Tampa, they are pushing the Cubs to the brink on how much money they want them to eat (could be as much as 80-85% of the nut). Ricketts is probably not happy (which could explain the animated Kenney last night with Hendry) and I would doubt if someone close to the Cubs would try to spread a rumor to get Tampa to back off of their demands.

This may indeed drag out for several weeks, it all depends on whether Ricketts blinks on the money piece.

I think at some point....

… he’ll have to, much as he likely doesn’t want to. He has got to see the negative vibes and PR this is already bringing the Cubs.

He will...

…but I also think he wants (and probably already has) to send Hendry a strong message on thing Ricketts has become good at – ROI!

Agreed.

I imagine Hendry has learned a real lesson here. At least, I hope so.

Sure, just like he did with Todd Walker

Wait, what?

great

more days or weeks of this crap.

Al Yellon

If were forced to keep Bradley, will you eat your crow raw or maybe with a little BBQ sauce?

I will not speak for anyone else

I would dread the thought, and would have a tough time seeing him in a Cubs lineup come April. It would suck.

I would too but....

I'd like the BBQ sauce.

But I don’t think I’ll need it.

I hope your right

As long as he has a Big Gulp to wash it down with

I think Al can eat crow with any sauce.

How about

Canadian Cubs Fan - December 9, 2009 reply

The Truth about Granderson

I read this from Buster Olney, who dissected the 3-team deal. Among other things, he said this:

Granderson is high character and high production in home runs and stolen bases, but there are those within the Tigers’ organization who came to regard him as a good player — but not a great player — because of repeated route mistakes on fly balls, because of his significant strikeout totals, because of his shrinking on-base percentage, and because inevitably, his vulnerability against left-handed pitching becomes an issue in the later innings.

I guess only time will tell. Needless to say, it’s not the end of the world the Cubs didn’t get him, at least in my opinion.

That short porch in NY

Will make him look even better!

With that porch

He could go all Brady Anderson without the roids.

fsuapollo - December 9, 2009 reply

Agreed

The more and more I thought about it, we’d be getting a similar player in Cameron for significantly cheaper, we keep our prospects, have a hitter against LHP, and aren’t committed to him in the long run. Granderson would be a great fit but at the cost, I think it’s not going to be the end of the world if we don’t have him

I'll post these agains

for anyone still upset about losing out on Granderson:

Granderson 2009:
249/.327/.453; UZR in CF (160 games): 1.6; WAR: 3.4

Cameron 2009: .
250/.342/.452; UZR in CF (147 games): 10.3; WAR: 4.3

Bradsbeard - December 9, 2009 reply

Not sure on MLB rules on releasing a player

But, if Bradely were released and he were signed for the minimum, that is all we get back right, the minimum?

mrcubsfan - December 9, 2009 reply

I believe that's true

That’s what happened with Vizcaino (sp?) this past year

That's correct.

Or the Pads with Jimmy ballgame in '08....

blackhawk24 - December 9, 2009 reply

I think teams are realizing that if they wait, they can get MB for almost free

Will the Cubs keep him in that case?

Not a very good option to be stuck with then............

mrcubsfan - December 9, 2009 reply

Keep him

If that is the case, keep him with the hope that he has a decent start to the season, then unload him at the trading deadline.

ZeoBandit - December 9, 2009 reply

How many games out of first are the Cubs at that point?

This is exactly why you trade for Burrell, you’re done with the burden after this year

Burrell

If you trade for Burrell and we end up having to pay for most of the second year, why do the trade? Bradley has more upside if he decides to play to his potential (I know, big if!).

ZeoBandit - December 9, 2009 reply

And a BIG DOWN SIDE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Of course if you are bored and what watch the fireworks coming off the Club house, then by all means lets keep MB.

Because he prevents the team from winning

Talent does not always equal success

Keeping Bradley is the worst move the team can make right now

Want proof?

Look at the Yankees in the early part of this decade until this past year. Boatloads of talent.

worse than outright releasing him?

really?

So eating $21.5 m (if someone else picks him up for league minimum) is better than having him play?

really?

You didn't say release him

You made it sound like you would want to keep him

I still think you might as well get SOMEONE for the guy. There’s really nobody in AAA that intrigues me for the bench right now and I think Burrell fits that mold

I do want to keep him

but if keeping him is the worst possible decision, then releasing him outright must be less worse. So, I asked for clarification — if the choice is between keeping Bradley or giving him his outright release and losing 21.5 million dollars, which do you choose?

Release him

He’s going to cost you wins if you keep him and is a distraction to the team unless he suddenly becomes an all star, which won’t happen as long as he’s unhappy here

I disagree

Keep him for now. If he does something crazy which I doubt you can dump him but he is still a player with a significant upside and he did not try to choke the GM or get caught speeding and
having sex or have numbers below the Mendoza line. Just plain stupid to pay him 21 million dollars to help another team. I don’t care if you make him a bench player, you keep him for now.

KA-POW! +1!

Maybe some team will change their tune at the trade deadline

If, say, a team like the Braves feel like they’re an outfielder away from being a contender.

I've NEVER heard of a team suspending a player

Like the Cubs did for Bradley. If he did steroids or choked Lou or something like that, fine. But if Hendry is suspending him because he’s just an asshole, clearly it’s effecting the team and you can’t keep that around. You don’t hear players say bad things about other players. Ever. Image is everything for these guys and they always put a positive spin on things. Listen to interviews with the Bears players after they lose. They never give Lovie crap and we all know it’s his fault for the most part. Bradley NEEDS to be off this team. If he’s still on the team by the end of spring training, cut him. You just can’t have that kind of distraction and expect to win. Even if he’s on the bench. It’s a waste of a roster spot as well.

and how are you going to pay someone

to replace him?

I got $.25

Who’s with me now???

Not sure what you're asking here

if you release him

you have to pay him. $22 million, or $21.5 if he’s picked up by another team for the minimum.

How are you going to find another RF (or CF) to replace the hole he leaves in the roster — and when you find them, how do you PAY them? You think Ricketts is just going to write off $22 million?

It's $21 million, not $22 million.

$9m in 2010, $12m in 2011.

I think that's what you're left with

That and you make Hendry pay for MB as you kick him out the door haha

You don't release a 21 million dollar player because of an IMAGE problem

I have said before I strongly believe the clubhouse “cancer” thing is WAY overblown. There is little doubt Lou loathes Bradley but he should have known what he was getting anyway.
The Lou- Milton combo was far more problematic than issues with fans for image. Not sure publicly calling a player a “piece of shit” is the best way to deal with him.

I am not fan of Bradley but I don’t want to dump at all costs because he is malcontent. The obvious issue is a roster problem but if you dump Milton for nothing or take on Burrell for no savings whose is gonna pay for a CF ? If the Cubs have the money to sign Cameron or whoever without losing all of Bradley’s money than why not just keep him ?
It simply makes no sense to eat this contract. Keep him and see what developes in Spring Training.

Lou didn't publically call him that. That was a private conversation that was leaked.

not exactly a "private " conversation

He screamed it at him in the tunnell after he pulled him from a game so it got widely reported as did Milton’s response " I have too much respect for you to respond"
Not like he called him into his office and said it.

Clearly it's more than image thing

Otherwise he wouldn’t have been suspended.

If Lou can’t manage him, you have to replace Lou or Milton. Lou is much more valuable to the team than Milton.

The fact of the matter is that MB doesn’t have much trade value. You get what you can with him, survive through this season, and move on. Keep in mind this is all if you can’t trade him and I think Hendry will trade him no matter what

Um not like it was a "real" suspension though.

In the last two weeks of a lost season Milton spouts off some nasty stuff and gets suspended EXCEPT unlike a real suspension he does not lose any salary. It is very unlikely Bradley could have actually been suspended as the MLPA would have protested. I doubt you can suspend a player WITHOUT pay for saying some really stupid and nasty stuff.

Regardless of whether if it was "real" or not by your standards

The Cubs brass didn’t want him anywhere near the team or Wrigley. That says more than enough to me. Even Aaron Miles was allowed to sit on the bench and PH every once in a while

Yes everyone felt better

and just like the video of Sosa leaving the park early on the last day of the season being leaked , this did wonders for Milton’s value. See part of being able to pull off a trade as at least presenting a plausable case that you don’t want the dump said player at any cost. I think it pretty obvious the Cubs wanted to get rid of Bradley but the way the suspension was handled was pretty stupid.

Doggie Stalker...

… will you marry me?

Now that Sam Fuld is taken

I guess I have to consider my options ( just kidding Mrs. Fuld).

We've gone from talking about whether or not you should cut him

To his suspension being real and legit. Look, we all think the suspension was stupid, but it is what it is. At this point, you cut your losses. Everyone knew we wanted to get rid of the guy by midseason when he had less than 10 homers and 30 something RBI’s. The suspension just furthered that notion

Where do we send resumes?

Sent to

Doggie Stalker
ASPCA
Box 31
NY NY 2014

Please include current photo , credit report and written proof that you agree Greg Maddux is the greatest player of the post war
era ( I am willing to cut Babe some slack)

Actually

The Cubs are projected to be a 90+ win team just by keeping Milton and Harden. Replace those guys with league average players and the projected win total decreases to 84. Milton’s CHONE projections have him as the 2nd best offensive player for the Cubs next season. I can’t imagine that whatever crap we get back will be better than MB, and will most likely be worse.

Our team is going to be worse on the field because we get rid of MB. I feel like that fact is lost on most Cubs fans. The clubhouse might be more loose and happy, but the crappy product on the field won’t be better, that’s for certain

considering what a clearly unhappy Milton put up last year

I’d like to know what they’re basing those projections on

statistics?

his statistics last year certainly didn't get us to 90 wins

augh

and Soto sucking had nothing to do with it, right?
and Rami being out for 50+ games had nothing to do with it, right?
and Soriano sucking had nothing to do with it, right?
and Fontenot sucking had nothing to do with it, right?

Can’t you eventually get your pound of flesh and move on?

the point was that getting rid of Milton would make us worse

shedding the numbers he put up last year don’t make us any worse. Can’t you stay on point?

the point is

you keep trying to suggest that Milton is THE reason the Cubs didn’t get 90 wins last year, and you keep trying to prove that with ONE YEAR worth of numbers.

That’s unreasonable on at least two fronts.

Because he prevents the team from winning
Talent does not always equal success

Keeping Bradley is the worst move the team can make right now

I actually think this was the original point: That keeping< Bradley would make us worse.

Exactly

Sure...

The day he is traded, we can call all debts settled. I will wish him well and be down with him.

On field production without accounting for clubhose chemistry

CHONE basically takes into account peformance from the last 3 years to project the next years peformance

well, then there's a fundamental flaw in their equations

Because neither Harden or Bradley had seasons that got us to 90 wins.

MAYBE Bradley returns to his norms, or maybe he continues having a crappy career as a Cub. And Harden was as inconsistent as anyone last year. Does he return to dominance, or has something been figured out about him?

That's assuming all the other big guys are healthy

I’m sure losing Rami for 50+ games alone shaved off at least 2-3 wins, At least 2-3 wins lost because of Gregg’s blown saves. With Rami, your talking about a guy who is on average +5 WAR player. That’s a lot of wins right there

The team with MB will not win a world series

It just won’t happen

Well if you base things on that kind of malarky

We never should have released Marquis cause at least he gets you to post season every time.

It's based on the fact that talent isn't the only thing that wins world series

You need chemistry, you need 25 guys working together. You don’t have that when he’s on the team.

I’ll cite two sources

Manny Ramirez on the Dodgers 2 seasons ago when everything turned around for them and they were playing looser and then made the playoffs

The Yankees had all the talent in the world from 2000-2008 yet didn’t win a WS. They were competitive. A-Rod and Texiera (sp?) learned to relax in the playoffs and be productive and they won this year.

Uncle Milty's was pretty successful in the post-season in 2004 and 2006

I'm looking at more than numbers here

Like what? Clubhouse Chemistry

I fail to see how that makes players strike out less, hit more HRs, and get out base more often. I guess that’s just me. I don’t think the Cubs clubhouse will be all that happy and loose next year on their way to 84 wins and 2nd place again……

Remember that 2008 team....

When they won a ton of games and were favorites to go to the world series but then they froze up in the playoffs, the attitude wasn’t the same, they were all nervous, and got swept by the Dodgers?

This stuff is important. There’s more than just the numbers in sports. Humans aren’t robots

Humans aren’t robots

But Bradley cannot be redeemed.

I'm a forgiving person

And I don’t care if you’re an asshole as long as you produce. Michael Jordan is one of the biggest assholes out there on the court. But the guy won 6 championships. And everyone loves the guy. He’s the reason I still watch the Bulls (sigh). If you’re alienating yourself, hurting the team in the process by being an asshole, and not producing not only to what your contract implies you should be doing, but you can be replaced by a guy making a tenth of what you are paid, you get rid of the guy. Sorry. I still want Soriano on this team because he’s honest and admits that he sucks and is working on it from what I can tell. The guy is trying. Milton is blaming everyone else. Get him gone

it's funny

because Bradley repeatedly talked about how he needed to do better.

And what have we learned from this?

That Bradley shouldn’t talk, because eventually he will go off the deep end.

He didn’t want to talk. The team forced him to. To me it seemed Bradley recognized his flaws and like an alcoholic avoiding bars, he initially attempted to minimize the situations that would get him in trouble.

Bradley deserves alot of blame for the current situation but the team is not getting nearly enough blame.

‘Blessed’ Bradley signs with Cubs
Three-year deal marks longest of switch-hitter’s career

Hendry did his homework, and asked a lot of people about the sometimes volatile outfielder. He got nothing but glowing reports.

“The opinion that he wouldn’t be a good teammate or he would be a disruption in the clubhouse couldn’t be further from the truth,” Hendry said.

One reporter who had covered Bradley in Oakland in 2006 said the outfielder seemed more at peace.

“I don’t feel like everybody is against me anymore,” Bradley said. "I really felt like that in the past, and that I had to watch my back about everything, and I learned you have to trust somebody at some point. In Oakland, I had great teammates [and in] San Diego, Texas. Once I got around good guys who all they wanted to do was support and play with you and be a friend, I felt that love. Anybody, all they want is to be loved.

Where?

I can never recall him saying anything like that.

All I heard was racism, fans, and bs

Rec'd

@Musicdude10

The media covered that part of his talking up.

Sarcasm?

He Did

I remember some interviews where he said he needed to get better from the left side. He wasn’t all that bad. He did say some stupid stuff, but I don’t believe he’s a terrible person. Fox’s recent comments back up that assertion.

Oh well thank you Jake Fox

Cmon. You’re really defending the guy because an almost 30 year old rookie doesn’t want to tarnish his image?

(Fox was 26 last year.)

I completely agree with you

I think MB will be better next year. He wouldn’t be the first (or last) player to struggle in his first year with the Cubs. Lots of guys turn it around and have great 2nd seasons. You get used to all the day games, the crazy wind to RF, etc…..

the racists, the negativity, the bashing you, the microphones in your face...

Jordan and the Bulls also were able to win with Rodman.

Rodman was a clown more than a perpetual malcontent.

Say what????!!!! I don’t remember Bradley kicking a cameraman.

Good point

Loved his hair though. That’s all I cared about when I was 7-8, not that he was wearing wedding dresses, etc

That was caving under pressure, 7 walks, 4 Errors in one inning

Was that the result of crappy clubhouse chemistry? I thought that team had great clubhouse chemistry

In the playoffs it was gone

I remember reading articles in the aftermath saying guys needed to relax. Hell isn’t that why Al was suggesting they go out and get Kevin Millar? Improve that chemistry with a guy who has been there before?

Jeez get Pedro's midget

if you want to lighten up the clubhouse.

Not a bad idea haha

I do remember that.

It was widely believed that Bradley’s attitude and edge would help fix that very problem.

Can we all just agree that chemistry exists, but that we have no clue how it affects on-field success and we have no clue how to harness it in a locker room in order to exceed expectations based upon real, tangible, measurable statistics?

I'd agree 100% with that...

… which is why saying an “attitude and edge” would help fix the problem was exactly the wrong way to approach it.

Loose Manny? The one they got rid of?

Well they might not, but they might at least get to the playoffs with MBs bat

I doubt it

The NL central has been won by a +90 win teams all but twice in the last decade

Cubs + MB + Harden + Fox + decent health for everyone else = 90+ wins
Cubs without MB, Harden Fox + decent health for everyone else = 84 or less wins

Guess we're an 84 win team then

All three will be on other teams next year

Only if they are replaced with league average

The problem is with the Cubs finances, the Cubs probably will be replacing those three with league average or worse players. every player linked for Milty is below league average in terms of production. MB was above league average, even with the crappy 2009 year he had a higher WAR than DeRo and a lot of other guys.

I’m resigned to lose MB, and the Cubs will be a worse team because of it.

I just don't think he'll suddenly start producing if we keep him on this team next year

With all the crap he’ll be getting from the fans and media (you can’t tell me that doesn’t effect him), I can’t imagine his numbers being better

and if his numbers remained the same

it would be an improvement on any other alternative.

Remained the same as what? His outlier season in Texas?

as last year.

read the context. His 2009 numbers were better than what the alternatives put up.

There’s every reason to believe he will improve next year.

No there isn't.

At least not by much. He’s on the wrong side of 30, and I don’t really expect him to suddenly start outproducing his career averages…which is about what last year was.

I disagree

I could see Bradley maintaining his 380 OBP, and increasing BA to 265-270. increasing his slugging to 450 (his career average). That would put him at 800+ OPS. Not too bad. Better than Burrell, Castillo, or anybody else.

How do you see him doing this stuff?

In a place he doesn’t want to be where he knows if he doesn’t produce they’ll just ship him off or cut him?

Just look up his averages

His career average BA is 277. so 265 isn’t out of the question

He’s always had a stellar OBP.

And while he won’t hit many HRs, he’s been a career 450 SLG.

I would be happy with a line of

265 BA, 380 OBP, 430-450 SLG, +800 OPS, 10-15 HRs, 50-65 RBIs. That’s would be below his career average production.

You forgot to add in the whining pissed off interviews and general assholishness.

see

I just don’t care about that stuff. I do wish he would have shut the f up, but I don’t feel like he said anything regarding the fans/media of Chicago that I really disagree with.

So you have no problem with these two comments?

“You go out there and you play harder than anybody on the field and never get credit for it.”

“All I’m saying is I just pray the game is nine innings so I can be out there the least amount of time as possible and go home.”

Rec'd

What exactly is so bad about that?

I WANT players that think they are trying the hardest. Any player who isn’t, I’d rather not have on my team.

Your last quote was from right before the suspension when he was getting booed even after going 4-4 and striking out on the 5th at bat.

Not the best choice of words, but I understand the sentiment. I only want to play 9 innings, because I don’t want to be booed any longer

I don't know what else to say to you...

you honestly don’t see Milton Bradley’s attitude and behavior as a detriment to the team. We are at an impasse. Good-day sir.

I just understand his behavior

I’m a psychologist. I see what a shitty work environment and not being appreciated can do to people. We forget sometimes that these players are human and can be affected by the way others perceptions. Just think how you would feel if people booed you at work, even though you thought you were doing a good job. And Bradley did have a few good months last season, but the booing continued.

I would be mad, frustrated and those feelings would probably be replaced by sadness. I imagine the same things go on in MBs head.

We as Cubs fans should be looking in the mirror, Bradley will not be the first or last casuality in Chicago sports history, the list is long and impressive. Jay Cutler is going to be the next scapegoat for shitty management and a crazed fan base….

He said in the beginning that his contract ($$$$$) was the respect he was looking for.

Burrell...

… has a .838 career OPS and was at .890 for 2005-2008 combined.

Bradley has never come close to those numbers.

I actually like Burrell. He was terrible last year

and should be due for a rebound. He just doesn’t fit on the field, but he might in the clubhose. He’s at best a DH/LF, we have one of those. And while Bradley’s not a GG RF, he’s not terrible. I’d be all for Burrell if he could play CF or RF, but he can’t…..

And neither can Bradley....

Putting Fukudome is not the answer

Burrell would be on the bench

Bradley's better than Burrell would be

You’d have to think familiarity with RF at Wrigley would benefit Bradley’s defense a little next year. It definitely can’t hurt. Whoever we’ll have in RF in 2010 will most definitely not be better than Bradley would be. That’s the only point I’m trying to make.

Oh yea familiarity

Remember how concerned we were with the fact that Bradley is injury prone and won’t play 120 games? That’s the only familiar thing to him.

I don’t think he said outproducing career averages. He said his 2009 numbers which have been derided as suck, but yet still better than the alternatives. Atleast I think that’s what this means.

as last year.
read the context. His 2009 numbers were better than what the alternatives put up

So his numbers from last year are better than what Cameron would put up this year?

He produced just about how we should have expected him to.

He’s NOT a allstar player.

Bradley would be a perfect fit in the 2 hole this season

Fuku, Bradley, Lee, Rami (thats 4 guys with 380 OBPs, and three with career OPS’s above .800 with Bradley, Rami, and Lee).

I always thought Bradley was best in the 2 hole. MBs OBP skills alone would have netted DLee at least 10-15 more RBIs. And if Rami was healthy, even more. But instead Lou wanted MB in the 5 hole. Bad move. Just like getting rid of him will be a bad move on the field

Bold statement there, considering the team hasn’t won a World Series with anyone in over 100 years.

stupid question...

does Bradley have a NTC?

cooliogirl47 - December 9, 2009 reply

No.

Could you imagine if Jimbo had given him one?

Holy crap.

Would Bradley really want to stay?

I imagine he’d approve any trade

Maybe Bradley would throw a tantrum and decide to poison the well

I wouldn’t put anything past him.

And then he'd twist his mustacchio...

… swirl his cape around him, and disappear into the night.

aldimond - December 9, 2009 reply

After tying Carrie to the tracks.

Considering his agents have been talking to other teams trying to pave the way

I’d say he’d welcome a trade

Mid-range starter?

So some rumors yesterday were that the next step for the Cubs after trading MB would be trying to deal for a #3 starter. There’s been very little speculation about which pitcher. That kind of talent is rarely available without giving up multiple good players. So…

Who do think is available on the trading front?
What would the Cubs need to trade to get him?

cubzfan - December 9, 2009 reply

I think you look at the free agent market first

Jason Marquis and John Garland are available (sarcasm)

Seriously though there’s a decent list of starters out there who aren’t John Lackey who can be had for cheap. I don’t think the Cubs go for anyone crazy though given that there is already 6-7 candidates for the rotation right now

There may also be more starters available...

… after the non-tender deadline.

Agreed that would be smart

Just not what the rumors were saying. Anyone in particular that might be available.

cubzfan - December 9, 2009 reply

I could see Vazquez or Lowe falling into this category

Braves might actually have interest in Vitters as a long-term replacement for Chipper Jones. Maybe whoever the Cubs get for Bradley also goes to Atlanta, to even out dollars?

cubzfan - December 9, 2009 reply

Except if the Cubs spend a lot of money to unload Bradley

they probably won’t be able to afford these guys.

I guess as long as

Fukudome is back to playing RF this year, things will be better for the Cubs. I am disappointed we didn’t get Granderson. I’m not thrilled with Burrell but maybe things work out, he could play LF, RF & 1st along with being a bat off the bench. Just get rid of Bradley today please.

For some reason, I had the horrid yet hilarious thought of...

Ryan Theriot playing center field. Why that came to mind, I’ll never know.

Theriot in the OF...

I like that idea, but why not just shift him over to 2B to start the year. The Cubs have enough power why not let Castro start the year with the big club.

Because you don't want another Corey Patterson on your hands

Let the guy develop

Theriot played left a little at the beginning of 2007

wasn’t pretty

Yeah

I bet most runners could tag up and score from second with his arm in the OF

LT - December 9, 2009 reply

Hahaha

Which is why I said "horrid yet hilarious"

ah, gotcha

And some people questioned me

when I said Rosenthal’s story of “shocking” level of interest in Bradley was a bunch of BS. The interest was only if the Cubs throw in a bunch of money or take on a bad contract.

He is not going away easily.

Well there IS a "shocking" level of interest

Just look at all the blog posts, tweets, MLBTRADERUMOR stories etc. All Rosenthal made up was the bit about OTHER teams
being interested in Bradley.

I was right there with you.

cubswynn - December 9, 2009 reply

What would be the consideration of getting

Luke Scott & Felix Pie from the Os? I believe Scott could play the corner OF spots and 1st to sub DLee. Bradley & what to get them?

But what will the O's do with Bradley?

LF and RF are taken.

DH

Huff is no longer with them, and Scott would be gone.

Unless the Cubs are throwing in starting pitching

I’d keep Scott and Pie.

Bradley

and Marshall?

Bradley is not a DH. remember Drew?

He’s a good fielder and as ripete said LF and RF are taken.

As usual

you’re turning things around. Bradley is not JUST a DH. He’s capable of fielding as well. I’d suggest he’s more valuable to an AL team because he can DH and back up LF and RF.

He is a good fielder. His numbers back that up. I know you don’t like those pesky fact things, but there it is.

UZR/150 is outstanding last year

Let’s got to the chart…..er, um, well you see a -6.9 isn’t that bad, I mean the blind guy in the wheel chair got a lower one than Milton did.

how many times do I have to say that

we all know Milton had an off year last year?

Sheesh. Look at his career numbers for OF. They’re decent.

Gotcha

So everyone throw out last year, we are going to replay that year again. Oh wait, I we just going to wipe it from the books instead?

his career numbers

include last year’s numbers. So here’s the difference:

You’re saying he’ll absolutely suck as much as he did last year
I’m saying that if you look at his overall numbers — including last year — it’s not likely that he’ll suck that much.

Or could it be the start of his downward slide into DH land

And if THAT were a good reason to dump a player...

… we need to look at the much larger problem in left field. Right?

That I can agree on

perhaps

but he’s not that old. You need to give two years to that kind of analysis, I should think.

His good fielding years were prior to his ACL reconstruction.

He’s older and gimpier now. He wasn’t a good fielder last year, by any measure – UZR or “eyeball”.

Probably have to throw in

1 minor league reliever also.

Well considering the Cubs won't start him

I don’t think that would be enough.

If they think Pie is for real then they would be better off keeping him and his value could be a lot higher than Marshall.

realistically

prime talent. They’ve got little motivation to deal either guy unless we can get them a middle of the rotation innings eating starter. I guess they might be interested in up the middle talent as well.

I say cubs are gonna trade for millwood

And then we trade him to the mets .The mets want millwood and in return we get castillo and maybe a relief pitcher.

tazz34 - December 9, 2009 reply

The Mets have no pitching to spare

Why Omar Minaya still has a job is beyond me

They have what, 3 pitchers signed for next year? I guess he’s banking on the Mets being 100% healthy next year.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Nationals finished ahead of them next year

And there are rumors he wants to trade one of them :-)

John Maine?

I remember reading rumors of him to the Brewers yesterday. Is that what you’re talking about?

yes

Yea go figure on that one

The Mets are tied to every pitcher on the free agent market yet they want to trade a pretty solid 2-3 starter in John Maine

Yeah, the Mets are a mess

There were rumors that Wilpon influenced the decisions more than he should.

Made-up Scenario -- Choose Your Own Adventure: You're Jim Hendry

It’s the last day of the Winter Meetings. You have talked to all teams and they’ve said no on Bradley. TB is the only remaining team and they are holding firm that they will only take Bradley if you pay 4/5 of his 2011 salary and take Pat Burrell.

Boston approaches you with an offer they characterize as good only through the end of the Winter Meetings – take it or leave it:
Milton Bradley and Aramis Ramirez
for
Mike Lowell, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Jed Lowrie

Do you
a) Take the offer and beg Aramis to waive his NTC.
b) Hang your head and do the deal with TB.
c) Risk losing the offer with Boston by trying to negotiate a better prospect in the deal and/or DLee instead of Rami.

Are the Red Sox taking the contract?

If so, I roll the dice. Ramirez is one of my favorite Cubs, but that’s a pretty good return.

No money in the trade

Contracts for Contracts

They want to unload Lowell themselves.

Ugh, I don't know...

Lowell being a part of that makes it seem like we would be giving up a metric shit ton. I’d pass.

Meaning, you'd take the TB deal?

I honestly don't even know at this point

It certainly reads better than the TB deal, but Lowell is…yeah…

I take the trade

Lowell is more than they could reasonably expect for Bradley, and that’s a decent return for Ramirez.

Pass.

I wait. If I can’t get something reasonable during the Meetings, I hold to see if I can sniff out who’s at the fringe in Holliday/Bay talks, and start inserting myself in there.

I agree with that general strategy -

But it’s not an option in this Choose Your Own Adventure.

You’re either under orders from Ricketts to move him now or you get the sense no one else will take him no matter what.

This is really quite far removed from reality...

But in that case, he goes to Tampa Bay. I wouldn’t do anything with Ramirez before finding out his intent after next season. Coupled with a NTC, and there’s simply no time to do this.

No fair injecting reality

Pass

on the Boston deal and hang your head and do the deal with Tampa. I don’t believe Aramis’ deal is too much of a problem for the Cubs, and his bat is too valuable. I just don’t see his value dropping dramatically in the next year or two. Lowell, I think he’s done. Lowrie and Ellsbury are decent pieces, but not good enough for me to make that deal.

/

Take the box! Take the box!

oh, sorry – I’ve still got game shows on the brain…

You get...

NOTHING!!!!! STUPID! YOU’RE SO STUPID!!!!!

UHF off. :)

Canadian Cubs Fan - December 9, 2009 reply

Granderson is high character and high production in home runs and stolen bases, but there are those within the Tigers’ organization who came to regard him as a good player — but not a great player — because of repeated route mistakes on fly balls, because of his significant strikeout totals, because of his shrinking on-base percentage, and because inevitably, his vulnerability against left-handed pitching becomes an issue in the later innings

Hmmm. Sounds almost identical to the current Cubs LF.

krummy12 - December 9, 2009 reply

I posted this quote above

a little while ago, and I have to say the whole thing about route mistakes to fly balls was news to me. Yanks gave up a bunch to get him, I guess we’ll see how it pans out.

Same here on the fielding

He’s always been pegged as an excellent fielder. Maybe the speed and arm make up for his mistakes

The Yankees gave up less than most think...

Which is why we’re seeing pieces like this.

Agreed

Austin Jackson is very overrated, CF and the ’pen are really the only weak spots for the Yankees. Maybe the tail end of the rotation. They sured up CF for a while, and for cheap for the Yankees

Good Lord, man...

This is called Day After Damage Control. The Yankees are laughing all the way to the bank as they head for a repeat, the local favorite just got dealt out of town — along with an top pitcher — and the front office has to not only question the return, but why they got the organization got boxed in so badly that they had to make these moves. So now, after years, it’s “Well, we never really liked his makeup”.

The Tigers today look more inclined to loss 90 games next season than win it. What did you expect to hear out of that camp?

And I meant "the fans have to question",

not the front office.

My friends that are Cards fans

can’t believe how little the Yanks gave up. All the stat geeks want to slam Granderson for his numbers against lefties but how many lefties just rake against LH pitching anyway?

The Cubs will regret not getting Granderson.

Canadian Cubs Fan - December 9, 2009 reply

Did you laugh at your Card fan friends

about how much they gave up for Holliday and DeRosa?

Nope

They made a move to try to win the World Series (can’t falut them for that) and they have not lost Holliday yet. Prospects are trading chips in my book, the Cubs hang on to them too long and get screwed when they don’t pan out.

FWIW..

… here’s a view from a Tampa reporter on the Bradley issue, with this interesting tidbit:

And, for what it’s worth, Cubs GM Jim Hendry was seen having breakfast Wednesday with White Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf.

The Sox want Fukudome

I have NO, I repeat NO evidence or proof. But I think Fukudome is exactly what the Sox want. Excellent defensive OF who can play CF and spot Rios/Quentin if injured, can hit and his numbers will definitely improve at the cell

See now this is interesting.

Let’s say Kenny takes Fukudome’s contract completely. We might be glad for the salary relief, but we have no LH bat AT ALL in our lineup then…

and our outfield defense would SUCK

oh, the pain ..

the pain .. the pain ..

cubnational - December 10, 2009 reply

The Sox did bid on Fukudome at the time the Cubs signed him.

Possible, I suppose. Could the Cubs deal both Bradley and Fukudome there? The Cubs could take Rios and Linebrink in return.

Why would you want Rios?

That guy is one giant FAIL at baseball. Him and Soriano in a lineup together would cause a BCB meltdown for the ages.

I dunno.

I admit, Rios did really suck after the Sox took him. This isn’t a deal where you’re going to get great value.

Burrell for one year or Rios for 5+

Not sure how many years are left for Rios but he’s really awful and you have him for much longer. And you can’t really put him in cf, that’s nuts

But why take on a 5 year deal

At that point just cut Bradley and eat his whole salary.

I still think Rios

can be a very good player. I would consider him for Bradley and we eat no money on Bradley. Rios could play CF for a year or two and move to right after Fukudome is gone. I think Rios was complete shocked the Jays let him go for nothing and the White Sox wasn’t the best situation for him with their OF situation and Thome as DH when he arrived.

Yes

but now Thome is gone and the outfield is set for him.

Why the Cubs would accept this is crazy. If worse came to worst, they could always cut Bradley and only be out $21M as oppsed to however many more millions they’d have to assume with Rios.

The Cubs

are not going to cut Bradley. Rios is a 25/25 guy that can hit .290, I have no clue what his problem was last year.

There are lots of concerns with Rios

I’ve heard tons of rumors that after he signed his contract he hasn’t been as dedicated to his craft as his teammates would like him to be.
I’m just not willing to take that risk. The last thing the Cubs need is another questionable long term contract.

No thanks. I’ll take my chances that I can get Rios-type production on the FA market without having to assume that type of contract.

+1

Cameron/Byrd/Crisp/Ankiel > Rios

-75

Cameron is the only one comparable to Rios but he is aging. Cameron is the only one of that 4 worth signing.

Ankiel might have some value

depending on his shoulder.

Coco Crisp is not better than Rios. Rios had a terrible year

but his upside is much higher

True

I just don’t see either coming back to what they were

He may have gotten lazy

I’d still take a chance on him.

But at that cost for that long?

Really? 5 years and $60M left? No thanks.

Like I wrote, the LAST thing the Cubs need is another questionable long term contract.

+1

We have a couple of good OF prospects, you don’t want to be tied up til 2014 with a guy who MIGHT turn it around

Oh man I'd hate that

Rios just plain sucks. No excuse. If you can’t start hitting at the Cell, get out of the game. Linebrink is not much better than Heilman at this point. I’d rather keep Fukudome

What about Konerko?

Sox have been rumored to want to move him. Granted, the Cubs are set at 1B with Lee, but could Konerko play second, or be flipped? Just a thought or a wild idea.

What do the salary numbers look like?

ZeoBandit - December 9, 2009 reply

No he can't play second

He’s a gold glove caliber 1B, you don’t tamper with that. The guy is set there.

GoBackToSchaumburg - December 9, 2009 reply

Uh, err, umm....what?

What?

GoBackToSchaumburg - December 9, 2009 reply

What Pat said below

He is not gold glove caliber at first.

I don’t know where you are getting that from. His UZR ratings the last three years, per fangraphs: -1.4, -.6, 2.6

could he play second?

are you just randomly moving guys around the diamond now?

might as well throw in Zambrano for PV at this point

To paraphrase Freud

Sometimes breakfast is just breakfast.

True enough.

And a banana is just a banana...

Zeke - December 9, 2009 reply

They were trading Ozzie and Lou stories

Gonna be a long breakfast.

I read that as trading Ozzie for Lou

Oh man that would be bad

Zambrano and Ozzie would be fighting every day

except for the fact that they're good friends

Yes but two emotional guys like that?

You’re telling me they wouldn’t go at it if Z was struggling out there? Just speculation. Who knows. It won’t happen obviously

they'd hug it out?

Entourage fan?

Maybe. I didn’t know they were friends

Speaking of ...

Straight up, as players and not managers, would you trade Guillen at the top of his game for Piniella at the top of his?

As players?

No, I wouldn’t have.

Was Lou that good of a player?

I honestly don’t know. I do know he scored the first run in KC Royals history

yes

he was that good.

Lou was the 1969 AL Rookie of the Year.

He got MVP votes in four seasons and made one All-Star team. He had a .291 lifetime BA and hit 102 HR in a lower-offense era, playing in a park (old Yankee Stadium) that was death on RH hitters like him. He was a good defensive outfielder.

Not a great player, but a very good player.

Cool, thanks for the info

career over 18 seasons

.291/.333/.409/.741

Post-season stats:

.305/.317/.418/.736

Lou wasn't a big fan of walks i guess

the clog the bases.

Chuckle chuckle

I may be wrong

MLBTR reporting that the sox have interest in Cameron, maybe they’re talking about that

So they are price fixing ?

Not really much to talk about with your competitor for an FA.

Just common ground

Who knows. Just throwing the info out there

The MLPA wants the pictures

for their next collusion charge.

Meh

If it were Willimas I could see it making more sense.

The White Sox are in a good position in that they have a fair amount of flexibility, but I don’t see them taking on another $10+M per year contract. What for?

they, in fact, have little flexibility

unless they move a Jenks or Konerko sized contract or have lied about keeping payroll around $90M

Just curiously

Is Rickett’s at the meetings? I find it just a bit odd that Reinsdorf isthere.

maybe Reinsdorf is just

recruiting Hendry in case this is his last hurrah on the north side.

tony412 - December 9, 2009 reply

please let it be his last hurrah on the North side

PLEASE

That's why a lot of people like Reinsdorf

For the Sox at least. He’s very active and is at a majority of the games. With the bulls, that’s another story.

Anyone else see them lose to the Nets last night? I couldn’t believe what I was watching

Ugly. Del Negro's days have to be numbered, right?

he might be gettng the infamous bulls xmas eve present

Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks so

I can’t believe he still has a job today

Nice to know there’s a guy on the bench with coaching experience though. Bickerstaff should do a good job for the rest of the season

Personally I would like to see them get Byron Scott

He really helped Chris Paul, and more important than anything this season is teaching Derrick Rose how to be a star player and not an unselfish role player who gives Brad Miller and John Salmons last second shots.

True about Scott but Reinsdorf doesn't like spending money, maybe for next year...

I mean our best bench options are Pargo and Hunter. That’s SAD. I’m excluding Miller from that group because he starts sometimes. Well maybe when Tyrus comes back he won’t…idk

I didn’t expect much improvement from last year’s team but I still expected them to be competitive, probably a .500 team again. This is ugly though

Well you combine average offensive players

with a terrible coach who runs, i don’t even know what to call that offense, and you get this.

If a 2010 guy doesn’t come here, the Bulls are really really screwed. So say your Chris Bosh prayers every night.

Bosh or Wade

I’d LOVE Wade but I think that’s not an option at this point. Bosh is sick though

All these rumors and this weather...

Really makes me miss baseball a little more… how many days left, 130 something?

lswaidz - December 9, 2009 reply

Less, if you're counting to spring training.

This might be the year I finally take a trip out there for a week.

lswaidz - December 9, 2009 reply

It's really a cool experience

I did it when I was 14 and didn’t really appreciate it until I got home and there was still snow on the ground. It’s much more relaxing and excellent if you want to know more about the minor league system for the cubs

Al has a countdown on the main page, on the right side

But driving to work in the snow made me miss baseball all the more

I'm trying to put together

a spring training with golf trip together.

Just read on mlb.com

Cubs and Ray trying to get other teams involved in a deal that would include deferred money. This is a disaster!

It is.

Actually...

… deferred money might be the thing that breaks the logjam. If the Cubs are going to be on the hook for the $12m of Bradley’s 2011 deal, if it could be deferred or spread out over more years, it might be easier for Ricketts to say, “Do it”.

Is this the mystery team?

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

I think the mystery team

is me and my beer consumption at Wrigley.

This!!

RT @Carrie Muskat

It appears there is no “mystery team” in bid for #cubs Milton Bradley, and Tampa Bay is most likely trade partner

Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 9, 2009 reply

Ugh

So where did the Mystery Team rumor start? Wittenmyer?

No surprise

Hendry has tried and tried but his only option looks like TB for Burrell IF he also picks up the entire 2011 salary.

wow

I used to think Gordo got a bad rap around here. So much for that.

My guess is a Cubs source (not Hendry) told him that there was a mystery team as a way to put pressure on Tampa Bay. Would be interesting to know whether Gordo knew he was part of the misdirection.

Figures.

Miles said something similar on his blog

already linked to elsewhere in this thread. He did say TX was “in the outside lane.”

so now

we believe in what CM is reporting?

circuitclout - December 9, 2009 reply

Bruce Miles is reporting the same thing

well, she reported the opposite last night, so she's basically offering up a mea culpa

stuartscottslefteye - December 9, 2009 reply

What's the "RT?"

I think it's one of those fancy new twitter terms

Retweet? Am I saying that right?

Ryan Church DFA'd

If we’re signing Cameron/Byrd, I’d be interested in Church as a 4th OF.

Meh

If he’s the same price as Reed Johnson, or not much more, do it. Otherwise, meh. The Braves are desperate for OF help and to DFA the guy means he’s not very good

Not necessarily

He’s got a league average kind of projection, can play below-average CF and above average corner OF. And he’s LH.

So why'd they cut him?

See

here

I'd certainly go for him then

Not a bad PH guy either. I’d be for it for a few mil. Get CF taken care of first of course

DartmouthCubsFan - December 9, 2009 reply

not really

it means that they don’t want to spend the money oh him when they have 2 highly-touted prospects in jordan schafer and jason heyward that are nearly major league ready.

circuitclout - December 9, 2009 reply

it means

they got caught with Soriano accepting arbitration and can’t afford him

I'd rather have Pie

Well, yeah.

But we missed the chance to get Pie cheaply last year.

that move looks worse and worse, doesn't it?

In some ways...

But the Cubs thought they were going to the playoffs again and it would have been tough to run both Dome and Pie out there after the way Dome ended 2008. I believe it’s Dome’s lack of power that really screwed Pie.

So, once you decide not to start Pie, it’s not really fair to Pie to stuff him on the bench. He couldn’t have been sent back to AAA.

All that said – giving up on Pie in ’08 is going to look worse and worse for a while now, yes.

I don't totally agree ...

Pie could have been Joey Gathright on last year’s team. I don’t think it would have been an issue of fairness.

And when Bradley was injured, and Soriano was injured...

… he could have stepped in and played every day.

But Pie needed a shot to show he could be an everyday player.

Imagine you were in his position. We’re talking about a year that could affect your career and income massively. Jim Hendry gave Pie a gift and Pie made the most of it, keeping alive the hope that he can be an everyday player.

It's a business

Did Jim Hendry do a nice thing for Felix? Sure. But it didn’t help the team, and that should be Jim’s main concern.

exactly

I think Lou just gave up on Felix. But that’s just an opinion/guess.

That's not a guess.

Lou was clear about it.

really?

I guess I don’t remember Lou saying something to that effect, prompting the trade.

i.e. "Don't be a good human being. Just do your job."

Well, I don’t agree.

it's not that clear-cut

Hendry could still have been a good person while keeping Pie as a backup outfielder. Pie still would be making hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Exactly

Just because he didn’t start doesn’t make Jim a “bad person”.

No.

If you’re Pie, you don’t want to just make 400K for a few years and be a backup. Pie’s a gamer who wants to win. And who doesn’t want, someday, to sign a multi-M contract? Pie’s career was at a crossroads and the coaches the Cubs had were messing him up more than helping. It’s not just the playing time. Pie needed to be away from Piniella/Perry who were trying to remake Pie and it wasn’t working.

Everyone is a gamer who wants to win

It’s a 25 man roster and nine guys on the field at a time. Someone has to sit.

Yeah,

I’m just not big on Cameron. We keep spending money on outfielders and if we would of just been patient — I think Pie could be the next Granderson.

I wouldn't go that far

But we didn’t get enough back for Felix, and replaced him in some really dumb ways — Joey G.

Jeromy Burnitz available?

"I think Pie could be the next Granderson"

I guess some people never learn

Some people never learn what?

He has the potential to be great. The only thing he needed/needs is/was time.

DartmouthCubsFan - December 9, 2009 reply

their careers at the same age

are strikingly similar

to say some people never learn… that’s an uneducated comment

I'd rather have Fuld

but you knew that didn’t you ?

Boof Bonser expected to be released by Twins

Non Roster invitee to ST? I’d love to see that happen

Meh.

Bonser has a nice name, but that’s it.

Rec'd

Reply of the day.

I think he's a solid LR guy

A move to the NL might do him some good. Just an idea

And with labrum surgery, he could be a completely new person, both literally and figuratively

You mean...

… Bonser of the 5.12 career ERA and 1.45 career WHIP?

Forget it. I’d rather have Jason Marquis back.

+∞

Fair enough

Just my opinion. I still think he’s worth a non roster invitee to ST, you have nothing to lose

I'm supportive of a cheap look

outside of era, he was actually a fairly solid pitcher 2 years ago. By ST, it’ll have been more than a year since he had surgery.

What about.....

Bradley to White Sox for Matsui in a sign and trade? Sox are rumored to be after Matsui, that might be the “chip that needs to fall” before trading Bradley?

Gives Sox a younger option that Matsui. Gives the Cubs potential relief if the deal with Matsui is 1 year, given his age and declining health, depending on how much of Bradley’s salary the Cubs eat?

jballgame - December 9, 2009 reply

Problem!

Matsui can’t play the field any more.

Don't confuse sports

I’ve never heard of a sign and trade in MLB. I think this would confuse Reinsdorf and the Cubs would end up with Tyrus Thomas.

Given the unknown desire to get rid of Thomas

That’s pretty plausible. I don’t get why they want to get rid of the guy or why Vinny hates him so much

i think KW will take production over 'youth'

MB: 99 OPS+
Zilla: 131 OPS+

If you just want rid of Bradley

Bradley, Sean Marshall & Cash to Yankees for P Kei Igawa and either Melky Cabrera or Brett Gardner. Igawa is just sunk cost at this point but maybe you could use him as a 2nd lefty/spot starter/fuku friend. Gardner or Cabrera would take over in CF with Kosuke moving back to RF.

circuitclout - December 9, 2009 reply

I would do this, but only for Gardner.

off the top of my head ...

Could some sort of complex arrangement work out where the Cubs trade Milton, the Rays trade Burrell and the White Sox trade Jenks.

trad Mb for nothing or just release him???

OK it becoming clear to me this is a bunch of people over reacting to yes a horrible season by this guy..but the fact that some people have said lets just release him,and save a roster spot…OK for who? a prospect who’s not ready yet? and a trade for no bat pat would be another bad move..yes he had one maybe two good years .i think in all honesty keeping this guy another year would be our best option.Lowering his salary for next year and making it more likely to do a trade.. considering mike Cameron whom I’ve had on my fantasy team….would be another mistake…his average is to low around 250..he doesn’t have the speed (7 steals)he once did..basically your looking at guy who could play good D and offer little in the bat department…see Andrew Jones last year…all in all i know the cubs are pursuing a trade,but if you cant get back at least equal value why do the trade….Does everyone on here really think MB hits 257 again…i seriously doubt it…so a mike cameron move would be exactly what we already got last year. lets think a little first cubs fans…we are not morons and we’re not lettin bradley walk…im all about saving the money anyway so we can land carl crawford next year…yeah i said it!!

LightsOutVegas - December 9, 2009 reply

Satire?

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

Lets get this man an Enter key!

RT @TBrownYahoo

Randy Wolf will agree today to sign with Brewers — 3 years, just under $30 million.

Solid pitcher

Too much money IMO

it's a weird market

Wolf gets a high amount due to durability, but he really isn’t worth that much. Brad Penny nets 7.5 … which is just stunning to me.

Agreed!!!

I was blown away. I mean not to say Penny is a bad pitcher but considering he was cut last year….

Seems like he could have been had for cheap.

Wolf is a good pitcher but I wouldn’t have paid him more than 7-8 mil a year for more than 2 years. But I guess Milwaukee is desperate. Their rotation looks pretty bad still for next year

i don't mind the years for wolf

i mean, in this market, i figured a durable arm would get 3 years. the 10 aav just seems high.

I guess if you look at what Marquis and Lilly got, you're right about the years

But yea, the money is too much

actually

the deal sounds alright, if i’m reading haudricourt correctly. It sounds like he’s saying it’s 3 and an option, at a total less than 30 mil. Now, the 4th year isn’t ideal, but if the total deal, assuming option vests/is picked up, is 4/30, i can somewhat understand it. They need durability as much as they need talent.

If it's 4/30 then I'm for it

I thought it was 3/30, 4/? depending on the option

DartmouthCubsFan - December 9, 2009 reply

wolf getting paid due to durability

is an amazing sentiment in itself, this may have been the first year he didn’t wear down or completely break down in Aug/Sept in a long while

How badly do people think the suspension hurt Bradley's trade value?

Not to say shopping him would’ve been easy had it not been done, but suspending him made it clear the team was done with him, and teams have negotiated with that knowledge ever since.

Great minds think alike

and post at the same time. I was just mentioning that in a thread above.

yeah ...

the cathartic benefits at the time seem to be totally outweighed by the fact that trading MB has been so difficult.

Ah I see that now

Of all the bad decisions made last year, this one seems to get overlooked. And to me at least, it’s freaking killing the team.

i'd guess Hendry cost himself about $7M the moment he sent him home

Looks like it gets closer to $21M every day.

Nah.

Hendry could have done the deal already if he’d accept 18 M. The longer it goes – I mean if it goes past the winter meetings – it shows he’s waiting to get it down. I still think that if we wait till after Holliday and Bay sign, then there will be a bigger market.

I'm sure his market value took a big hit,

but I really don’t think that at the time the Cubs had much of an alternative.

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

Why isn't just gutting it out an alternative?

Sure, the clubhouse isn’t as happy. But the Cubs were out of it anyway. 2 more weeks of Bradley to protect some semblance of trade value, or 2 weeks of happiness with an awful two year contract you have to foot? Seems like an easy choice to me.

Fake an injury?

Team does it all the time. Could have reasoned with Bradley, as i’m sure he’d much prefer his trade value be higher as well.

The first thought is that it hurt a lot, but...

the question is whether this stuff would have come out in the offseason anyway. It was going to be clear eventually, you’d think, that Hendry was aggressively shopping Bradley.

his 'value' wasn't affected per se, as much as it took away any leverage Hendry could take into negotiations

Right

And I’m questioning whether Hendry’s leverage would have been sapped anyway as it became clear that the Cubs were shopping Bradley aggressively.

But to this extent?

If suspending him for a pointless 2 weeks hurt Hendry’s leverage one iota then it was a bad move.

it probably was...

…if you only look at the value piece when it comes down to trading him, and Hendry had to know it would crater. Hendry did this for one main reason, to save face with his ballclub, because he knew things were getting out of hand. Was it worth it? Keeping the players on his side has always been important to Hendry, and his is clearly what I would call a “players GM”. He was willing to crater Bradley’s value, to send a message to the team that he would take care of the problem for them.

On the other hand, I have always disagreed with how the Sosa issue was handled after 04. The parking lot video was released for one reason, and that was to avoid any uproar from the fans in trading Sosa, and you never let things like that force you to crater a players value for the PR affect.

But it was for two weeks

Two weeks when the cubs were out of it. If Hendry had decided to suspend him in July, fine. But doing so when the season was practically over screwed him. Making a couple players happy for two weeks in exchange for destroyed leverage just doesn’t seem wise to me.

I don't disagree...

…with what your saying, but it was clearly important for Hendry to save face with the players who he wants to respect him. All in all, what probably happened was Hendry should have taken firmer control of these issues earlier on during the season. He may have tried, but it obviously didn’t work.

I think the players would be smart enough to understand that Bradley was hanging around as a smoke screen so his value wouldn’t drop. Especially if, as I’ve been hearing he was a cancer in the clubhouse. Actually keeping Bradley would have kept the player’s on Hendry’s side because they could have all gone for drinks and told jokes about Bradley, while Bradley sulked in the locker room.

I don't know.

I agree that the initial thought is – it hurt his value. I’m just not sure it’s ultimately right.

nah, i think we'd all be surprised at the some of the names that get shopped aggressively behind closed doors

Statement hurt, Suspension expected

Bradley’s Statement “you understand why they haven’t won in 100 years here.”

How could the Cubs not suspend him?

Because they have to think long term

I’m not denying that the guy deserved to be suspended. But Hendry had probably decided he was going to try and dump the guy by that point anyway. Why not make it easier on himself to do just that?

they could have just benched him

Which, I think, would have been less damaging to his trade value.

Your employee says that to the media

and you just bench him? That statement was unacceptable and could not be tolerated.

That statement right there is reason #1 that Bradley can not come back to the Cubs. How would you move forward after that?

by being adults?

We're still waiting for Milton to do just that very thing Drew.

oh, cmon.

this is ridiculous. It’s not possible to debate this with you.

Milton Bradley is a grown man, who did his job and got better at it during the year. Yes, he lost his temper once or twice, and yes, he was injured. But if you really think that losing more than six million dollars (what a ridiculous sum of money for someone playing a game, much less the smaller portion of his salary) is worth it to trade Bradley, you’re not paying attention to the facts.

umm....he got "better at it during the year"....

Really Drew?

He didn't say CONTINUALLY

yes

obviously September was bad. But to go from .627 OPS in April to a .911 in August, that’s steady improvement. His BA steadily improved as well. He only played in 14 games in September, his lowest for the season, tied with April.

Uh...because he got suspended for ripping on his employer...

Cherry Picking...you're good at it.

I used to pick grapes at my neighbor's house

We never ate them, though . . . we just squished them and made a mess.

it's not cherry picking.

He improved throughout the season. Sheesh.

not "throughout"

He was bad, got better, struggled again and then was suspended.

he only played 14 games in September. Who knows what would have happened had he played 24? he could have brought it back up. Or he could have stunk up the place. But he steadily improved from April through August.

The team as a whole wasn’t all that great in September:

2009 Cubs batted .254/.335/.377/.712 for September.

He had ONE decent month of baseball....

Throw out March/April and he was MEH for May-July….was good in Aug. and disappeared in Sept.

June, July and August were all good months for Bradley

He batted between .273 and .308 with OPS of .275 to .911, over 72 games. And in May he out OPS’d June.

Yes, April/May was bad, and yes, September was bad. But when the Cubs were in the thick of it, he was producing.

Didn't he have a bad August, too?

The whole team was struggling. I could be wrong.

nope

August was his best month.

.308/.427/.484/.911

Also the month he played the most games — 26.

OK. So good July/August

Thanks, Drew. My memory was off.

Yes, adults would fire Bradley

Unfortunately, baseball is a kids game. So Bradley has a guaranteed contract and will make his money. I expect him to rebound and have a good season. But not with thew Cubs. With a small market team with lower media exposure.

I can’t even think of what kind of question a reporter would have to ask Bradley to make him say “you understand why they haven’t won in 100 years here.”

I can’t even think of what kind of question a reporter would have to ask Bradley to make him say "you understand why they haven’t won in 100 years here."

That would be interesting to know.

Go back and search this site for the posts I made then.

The question was an innocent question from Bruce Miles on whether Milton had enjoyed his first year in Chicago.

Bruce Miles is racist.

You need the sarcasm sign there, SWL.

/sarcams

I got yo back

And the Extra Innings quote?

paraphrase – Milton Bradley said that he roots for 9-inning games rather than games that go into extra innings when he play at Wrigley Field because he can’t wait to get out of that place and go home.

I know there was an accusation of fan racism here and I hate hearing that.

Everyone knew Bradley was a media timebomb waiting to go off. Again and Again. There’s too much media inquiry for him not to keep exploding.

Bradley not on the Cubs would be the best for the Cubs and Bradley.

I'm not saying he should be back -- not at all

But sitting his ass for two weeks might have made him easier to trade.

Of course

This argument can’t be fully undersstood unless we were to know what would have happened if he stayed active. Maybe he would have done something even stupider than the things he already did.

Keep in mind, it could have gotten worse … much worse.

Not a bit IMO

Word gets around. Teams knew that the Bradley signing wasn’t working before the suspension. Cub fans knew it from the outside. Other baseball GM’s on the inside knew it too. They probably know a lot more than we do.

I think there's a difference between "word gets around"

and ESPN headlines stating Bradley suspended the rest of the year.

And do baseball GM's get their info from Sportscenter?

There is a lot of talk that goes on behind the scenes. The fans knew things weren’t working. Bradley’s comments showed they weren’t working. I really don’t think the suspension impacted much.

Part of the problem with trading Bradley is the burned bridges. There are many teams that won’t touch him.

Plus Bradley has a history

It isn’t like this wasn’t expected. Baseball GM’s just look at it and are not surprised. Hendry is the only one surprised.

only to the average fan

GM’s aren’t counting on ESPN to tell them what’s going on.

No, they're not

But still, there is a difference between what people are saying about what Jim Hendry is going to do and what Jim Hendry out and admits.

huh?

Lou sent Bradley home before the suspension

That signaled that things were going badly. Bradley made the media comments before the suspension. The suspension was the icing on the cake but everyone knew the signing was a mistake. Baseball GM’s get a lot of inside information that doesn’t come from Sportscenter.

I'm sure they knew Jim wanted to trade him

But once Bradley was suspended they knew he had to.

Sigh...

I can’t believe we’re rehashing the Milton’s worth Conversation AGAIN!!! :) I just have to giggle.

Well when it appears that nothing is happening until he is moved

what else is there?

We could talk about Twilight!!!!

Die

Please and thank you

The only reason I haven't lost all the respect I had for you...

is because I’m hoping you are joking.

LOL

Rest easy my friends. I am joking. Now… BACK TO MILTON TALK!!!!

How bout talking about politics and religion ?

Might be less controversal and Al would love it.

Drew's Team Milton.

I tried to get a good conversation about cheese going yesterday...

… but nobody seemed interested.

Hey. Don't lump me in that one.

I was very interested.

Curd we start that conversation up again?

I've got Münster today.

Great on croissants.

You can get a giant block of it at CostCo for like six bucks.

I’m thinking about making a queso run this weekend. Let me know if you want in.

This baby is the best:

Goes well with anything, especially tacos, quesadillas and any other Mexi-delicacy. I know a bit about that…

i prefer the real thing:

That's Oaxaca

and it’s hard to get the real deal in the U.S.

Not here in San Diego.

asadero = queso asadero = Oaxaca cheese = Chihuahua® cheese

there’s a million places to get in Chicago. this is my favorite: http://www.cemitaspuebla.com/

The water content is much higher in Oaxaca cheese.

Dude, I’m a local. With lots of food experience.

I won’t knock Cemitas Puebla because I don’t like cemitas and wouldn’t be caught dead eating them. But I know my Mexicheez.

yep, you're right, they're definitely different...google fail

anyway, i should’ve know the difference as the only other chilango around here. anyway, they have more than just cemitas there…and it’s all very authentic.

As a citizen of Guerrero, all I can say is...

…I don’t like cheese. O_O

I used to eat entire bars of Rancherito when I was very little. Eventually I ate some bad cheese and apparently, it scarred me for life.

Me empache. D:

Azul Cachorro - December 10, 2009 reply

We appreciate your efforts good sir

Any Rule V draft talk?

Anyone we may lose or worth taking a shot at?

BVictor - December 9, 2009 reply

I retweeted a Tim Brown (from Yahoo) tweet an hour or so ago...

… talk is the Cubs may lose Robinson Chirinos. No great loss, to my mind.

Not Robby! Damn, another Lugnut gone :(

Zeke - December 9, 2009 reply

OT: I love you guys.

Thanks for making this ugly, snowy, windy morning very interesting and completely unproductive.

+1

Same

I’m hoping the weather doesn’t get much worse because my wife and I are supposed to find out if it will be a boy or a girl today. That was actually be kinda nice, we find out the sex of the baby, have dinner, laugh, etc, and before I go to bed I see that MB has been dealt. That would be a really nice day in a completely shitty day wrapper with this stoopid weather.

Good luck!

There hasn’t been a thing mentioned about Bradley all day though on MLBTR.

We aim to please!

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

What?!

People are banging down JH’s door to get Milton? I’M SHOCKED!!!

cubswynn - December 9, 2009 reply

There is gambling going on here, I'm shocked, SHOCKED I say.

Here is your winning Chief.

Twitter tweet

Putz will work out for #Cubs, others http://bit.ly/7tyK5k (via @espn)
Seesmic • 09.12.09 19:14

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

Like :)

Too long to read, damnit.

The internet lingo for that is

Tl;dr (too long; didn’t read).

Snap. I ran out of unread comments. Back to work I guess.

Here's one!

Thanks!

Appreciate it

Much appreciated. Work is overrated.

Work sucks.

I know.

She left me roses by the door.

Woops, stairs, not door.

Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - December 9, 2009 reply

Surprises let me know she cares

Say in aint so.

I will not go

When is an actual trade/signing going to happen?

This is getting boring.

No, you're getting boring!

I emailed you like the 12th best youtube video ever last night...

you should still be watching that.

Ya I reported you as "Spam".

I threw up watching that.

Wuss...

here this should make-up for it.

I'm...

…in

…class.

Get a hall pass.

More like a bathroom pass

why I don't miss my college years

Emelie - December 10, 2009 reply

rofl!

http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com/

This should keep you occupied

Read the commentary. So faunny.

http://www.paleisthenewtan.com/

And this too...

shudder

Pretty awesome, I must say.

A good depository for Orange Guidos. Thanks for sharing.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/chicago-cubs-near-tipping-point-on-dumping-milton-bradley-304710.html

Now what is said is that..

We are on the verge of just dumping him

Boost38 - December 9, 2009 reply

LOL....

While the Rays appear to be the “leader” in the Bradley sweepstakes, in a Pat Burrell deal that would include the Cubs eating most of Bradley’s contract, rumors of a mystery suitor surfaced Tuesday.

italics by me….

Wow, what a deal there.

Hope that’s supposed to say remaining contract.

Oh please, please, please

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

TWHS

More, I can take it, oh please, more...

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

Why would someone hope for this?

this is a bad outcome for the Cubs.

nose,

spite,
face.

You know, i've never fully understood that saying...

This is old and Sullivan-authored.

Also, the headline is out of context. Please dismiss.

.

The Orioles and Rangers are close to swapping pitchers Kevin Millwood and Chris Ray, reports Jeff Zrebiec of the Baltimore Sun. The Rangers would of course send cash in the deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove09/news/story?id=4717538

Cubs after SP?

Not really “news” but:

Nick Pietruszkiewicz: From Buster Olney: Cubs are poking around about starting pitching.

Good thing we didn't offer Harden arbitration, then.

Cubs are poking around about starting pitching.

They have enough pitching, unless they are getting an ACE, lets the kids fight it out in ST.

the problem is

right now, we’re looking at gorzelanny/samardzija as the 4th and 5th starters to start the year, with Mitch Atkins as probably one of the top arms to be called up early if there are problems (indications still point to Marshall in the pen, along with Caridad, who would be another guy to ponder as a stopgap if he was getting stretched out). That’s not a really ideal scenario. Heck, Wells at 3 isn’t really an ideal scenario.

That said, I’m getting a bit perplexed about the overall money situation. Early numbers suggested somewhere from 5-10 million free, pre-Bradley deal. Rumors suggest that the Cubs can’t move on someone like Cameron until Bradley is free, and yet, there is speculation on adding a pen arm and a starter. Granted, they may be looking at cheap, reclamation projects, but it sure feels like the Cubs are praying for a team to pick up a significant amount (say, 3-5 million) on the Bradley deal this year, or to find a way to defer it. I’m just not sure that happens.

Spot-on, as always.

Good points, BUT...

Who is out there for a starter? I think anybody the cubs have in the system already will do just as good of a job as somebody they would ad via trade or FA. Why not save what little money we have to spend so that come June we can get a more quality starter from a team looking to build for 2011.

Vicente Padilla. Rich Harden.

j/k

It’s slim pickings, I know.

Randy Johnson could be had...

and I’m only slightly kidding.

I'll take Johnson

If he goes to the Pen. I would love to see Harden back if he has a low base salary with incentives. That way he would earn what he got.

I guess what I would say is

If you can add pitching depth and options, you should add it. As the Red Sox showed this year, you can never have enough. This isn’t to say that Gorzelanny and Samardzija can’t do decent jobs (although I have my doubts on Shark), but rather, they are unproven, so why not try to find someone. 2 cheap names I’d take a look at:

Boof Bonser – He should come at a fairly cheap price. Will have had a year off from surgery by next ST. Was fairly solid 2 years ago (outside of ERA).

Chien-Ming Wang – Coming off arm problems that might be related to the idiotic, no rehab strategy of Cashman’s (I do like Cashman overall, but that was just stupid). Rumors suggest 1-2 million may get him.

Are these guys guarantees to be better than what we have? No. That said, why not pile on the depth, at least, early on when Lilly is out.

Furthermore, my other comment would be that, to be looking for a starter at the trade deadline, you have to be in the race, and with the rotation right now, I have my questions. Dempster/Z should be fine, and I think Wells should be fine for a 3-5 spot. But when you factor in the pen issues, it’s pretty messy.

Wang

You saw hum bust his Wang when running the bases a couple of years ago, didn’t you? I am not so sure we need to waste money on that. He hasn’t been the same since.

Sckrambo - December 9, 2009 reply

he had a lisfranc running the bases

and then they told him not to rehab. I’m not really worried that will be a recurring problem – that seemed like an accidental injury. Prior to getting the arm injury, his stuff was largely back. He was having his best outing last year when he got hurt – sinker was in the low-mid 90’s and moving, his slider was better than I had seen in awhile. For a 1-2 million dollar gamble (assuming he would even want to come here, which isn’t a certainty), I don’t see why you wouldn’t take the gamble if you had that change lying around.

Maybe we just bump payroll...again?

Z, Lilly, Dempster, Wells

That leaves us only looking to fill the 5th spot… right?

yeah...i'm not sure how Wells became a #3

He will be #3 if Lilly doesn't recover in time.

boy if that's what Hendry's thinking,

i’m confused. adding another starter to cover for Lilly is the kind of thing a team does in a win-now mode. yesterday marked a different direction for the 2010 club, IMO.

Jim Hendry's mind is an enigma.

wrapped in a mystery.

And CHEESE!

and lard

I was referencing the start of the year, when Lilly will be out

LaTroy to the Brewers, according to Rosenthal

Happy happy Joy joy!!!!

he's actually had decent back to back years

Yeah, since going to Houston

He had very good numbers

true, but I'm always happy when pitchers who have contributed to my home run ball collection...

…come/stay in the NL Central.

DamonBerryhillsMitt - December 9, 2009 reply

Do the meetings

end tomorrow or Friday?

Tomorrow, Thursday the 10th.

Cubs have offered Bradley for Lowell deal...

according to Buster Olney. No link, as it was on the teevee.

it's been shot down

in various tweets.

where?

I just saw in on Sportscenter. Maybe it’s an loop of an old story…

#Cubs official on Bradley-for-Lowell #Twitter rumor: “Where do you guys come up with this stuff?” (via @PWSullivan)

Do have any other reaction to Milton trade rumors other than immediately dismissing them as false?

sure

I think that if we don’t get at least equal value back, it hurts the team to just dump him, and people should grow up.

Did he do his job on the field? Yes. He wasn’t great, but he wasn’t terrible either, and he improved from the beginning of the year to the end.

If our choices only include paying most of his salary for him to play for some other team, we should forget about it, keep him, play him, and let him show us how good he really is.

I'm amazed that you don't see how KEEPING him could also hurt the team.

I don't think

it hurts the team as much as everyone wants to believe. Nobody liked Ty Cobb, either.

(awaits incredulity at comparison of Bradley and Cobb)

I don't think

he’ll help the team as much as you want to believe.

that's because

you’re ignoring the numbers.

LOL...I've fully acknowledged his "numbers" Drew....and that is crux of why we disagree about keeping him.

Can you refrain from the straw man arguments please?

you're ignoring

his career numbers.

And the amount of money Hendry and Ricketts will have to eat to get rid of him.

Holy CRAP! I've stated over and over again...

about his career averages…do you just lump every single anti-Milton poster together?

Ooooh, good plug.

Recommended.

no

I’m talking to you. that’s a cute page, it looks like you spent a really long time on it.

You do, though

It’s almost like a mother bear protecting her cubs (no pun intended).

Bradley’s a decent player, but I suspect a team can overcome trading him – most of them do.

The bigger picture is who is making the personnel decisions, not this one decision. Taken in a vacuum, that’s not a make or break call.

trading him

at a profit, or for equal resources, sure.

None of the potential returns are better than Bradley. None of them. Any trade of Bradley that’s seriously been discussed is a loss for the Cubs.

I don't disagree with this at all

Which is why Hendry is the bigger problem – he created this mess.

From this seat, it does seem that you’ve shown a blind devotion to Bradley even before the rumors came out. YMMV.

it's what he does.

for better or worse, he has a blind devotion to certain players

What nonsense.

Did Hendry keep Heilman, indeed, even suggest Heilman should start since we have an opening?

He was talking about Drew

Drew, they are sucking you in!

Look away! LOOK AWAY!

It’ll be a frivolous circle jerk of epic proportions every day till a resolution is reached.

I see their point. I value their ideas. I get that they want Bradley gone, and i get why. I understand that others value things in baseball that i don’t, and i’m OK with it. I disagree, as do you, with how desperate the situation is, and they will NEVER make an attempt to see it from the other side. They will NEVER be ok with somebody thinking we’d be better off with Bradley than old player X or contract albatross Y. Its inconceivable to them.

Its too bad, really. The best sign Milton MUST be gone is that he’s managed to make normally rational and well represented cubs fans accept downgrades to their team with open arms just so they don’t have to suffer at the hands of an unlikeable dude in right field.

Or he's an asshole cancer to our team

that was bought high by our GM, who is now deeply regretting that decision.

I don't doubt the asshole.

I don’t doubt the regret.

I just don’t see the cancer. Again, we can’t figure out what effect his bad attitude had in terms of wins and losses. And all quotes point to him being a loner, as opposed to a dude who’s problems grew uncontrollably to infect other parts of the team, like a cancer would do.

This is only conjecture and hearsay...

but Theriot grew his hair long and tried to be a power hitter and Soto started experimenting with controlled substances and stopped working out AFTER Milton became a Cub

enough of your Saber Metrics SWL!

If you believe Soto started using those controlled substances...

… only AFTER MB joined the team… well then you, sir, must be high.

Not that there is anything wrong with it.

This is exactly why I don’t get the certainty people feel that Milton won’t work next year. He’s been called a loner who wouldn’t join in. How does a cancer spread in a corner by itself? If he doesn’t talk to anyone how can he spread vibes, or maybe we just need someone sparky going around patting asses and passing Big League Chew.

Maybe he and geo need to bond over some...

… skywalker kush. Those chilling vibes don’t wear off for a good long while.

That might provide some Manny looseness for the team.

I take exception to the placement of your reply

See my comment earlier in this thread.

Essentially, it said that there seems to be no middle ground with some. If one person criticizes anything at all about MB, they are a hater. If one defends anything at all about MB, they think he’s the best since Ruth.

It’s absurd. There ought to be a middle ground.

The placement of the reply had nothing to do with you...

… and no harm was intended. I just chose a random Drew comment and typed.

I think i HAVE been pretty middle ground. I can appreciate that many fans, much of the media, and a large portion of the people here want him gone, and i get why. The reasons make sense to me. They just aren’t what i’d priorities for a team in “win now” mode and a 100+ year history of falling short each season.

I’d love a team full of nice dudes. But not more than i’d love a team that let me dance down clark st in october after a world series win. Now, its possible to have both of those things, i suppose… but in this particular case, we seem to be trading away production to get a return of “good guy”. While this may make sense to some people, it isn’t what i’d do.

I probably worded my response more strongly than necessary

I agree that you have been middle ground – but I think that I have, too. That’s my point – it’d be great if people could discuss the merits of what people were saying instead of turning it into some kind of holy war.

Broad Brush?

I happen to think we’d be better off without Milton Bradley…if he’s traded, I hope we get something useful in return, I DON’T want him simply released. If he ends up staying on the team, I will have my fingers crossed and will hold my breath in hopes that he can play an entire healthy productive season without being the distraction and idiot he was last year.

brown noser

I was hoping to get a similar point across with my "Price is Right" fanpost

I wasn’t expecting people to change their minds per se, but I was hoping that if folks saw all our (purported) trade returns together in one place, it might help add a little perspective on what the real ‘cost’ of trading MB will be. And perhaps some folks might realize that there really is a point at which the cost is too great – we’re better off keeping him.

Of course, I temper my expectations with my own realization that he really does need to be moved. And as I said in another post a day or so ago, even if MB, Lou, Jim, and the rest of the team all got on the same page and were willing to “hug it out”, it still wouldn’t matter. The media and fans, as a collective entity, would NOT be able to hug it out. There’s just no way.

And while a certain part of me normally would say, “so what? They’re not on the team. Deal with it.”, I just think in this case, as a new team owner, Tom Ricketts cannot afford to say “so what” at this juncture. He just can’t.

Which, again, is why...

…. eventually Ricketts will have to understand that he may not have any choice but to eat the $12m for 2011.

really at this point, Al

I can’t help but say “screw Hendry.” It’s water over the dam but what a BONEHEADED decision is was to sign Bradley. There’s risk-taking and then there’s WTF…

Emelie - December 10, 2009 reply

My response who cares what the media and fans think, right? Milton tries to avoid the media, then he is told he has to talk to them, then we tell him not to get mad and that he should just ignore the taunts and do his job because he’s a professional. If the organization and the players decide they can deal with Milton coming back, then I say screw the fans that have a problem and the media.

Ricketts can afford to say it because fans are going to fill Wrigley regardless. If we aren’t winning or if Bradley becomes a problem again, trade him then, but don’t make a trade now for garbage before atleast attempting to see if it can work, we can always get garbage later.

Fans and the Media will accept Bradley on the team if the Cubs are winning much easier than they would accept the Cubs sucking and having a wasted roster spot being used on whatever nonentity we get back in a trade for Bradley.

The fans want a winning team, and right now most don’t think the team can win with Bradley which is why they want him gone. If the team feels that they can or are atleast willing to try, the fans opinion is beyond secondary.

Nor will you give up "BRADLEY IS THE SAVIOR OF THE CUBS" mantra

Where have i said that?

Seriously? I’m FOR trading him.

You keep making stuff up to support your argument, and it just makes you look silly. Attack my beliefs with reality, if you please. But attributing a mantra to me that i have no real belief in is dumb.

DON'T MAKE FUN OF OUR POST

IT WAS A LOT OF WORK

::Physically Restrains Dan::

My god Drew.

A day earlier, Bradley said in a newspaper interview that he saw why the Cubs’ organization hadn’t won in 100 years and that the team didn’t have a “positive environment.”

HE CALLS OUT HIS OWN TEAM!

Drew is so in the tank for Bradley.

He does not see that even if he hits .300 next year all the other crap isn’t worth it.

What if Bradley hit .400, 80 HRs and had 200 RBIs?

That would be right about the tipping point of making him worth it.

Well that would be something, huh?

Did he?

If shoulda’s and woulda’s where candies and mints we’d all have a Merry Christmas, or Happy Hanukah, or respectful Ramadan or whatever else tradition you celebrate.

We can all hope that MB does something, like keeping his mouth shut, but the reality is that he can’t or won’t.

We can all hope that MB will be a “heart of the order” hitter, but he isn’t.

We can all hope that MB will be a Gold Glove RF/CF but he isn’t.

Time to stop hoping and dreaming and time to start realizing what he is. A malcontent average baseball player that is unhappy where he is and the front office is unhappy with him. You ain’t gotta go Milt but you got to go.

if Bradley

hit .300 next year for another team, Cubs fans will be complaining about it.

Cub fans = you and 5 other people

indeed

not me

That's because you're racist . . .

/sarcasm

lolz

I think you mean I'm the raciest

You slut!

Not me, either.

I imagine we will get over it quickly enough

Drew only cares about the performance on the field Dan...

calling out your own teammates, organization, fans, city, etc. isn’t in his numbers.

Very true

It isn't part of what makes a team win or lose.

If you can tie MB’s mistakes to specific losses this season, i understand the desperation to ditch him.

Because that isn’t possible, its reasonable for some people to believe his trade value is below his on-field value due to the exaggerated importance of chemistry and being a nice guy.

And if his trade value is below his actual on-field value, why diminish the team’s tangible abilities to succeed over an intangible problem that is likely more irritating than destructive to the team?

yes

he did. And he was disciplined for it. Remember when Braun complained about the Brewer’s starting pitching? Good times…

Imagine a team with Bradley and Cobb on it?

Hell, imagine a league with Bradley and Cobb in it

If Bradley and Cobb played together

then I doubt he would complain about the racist fans.

A dead guy playing Center?

Isn’t that kind of ghoulish?

Drew:

If Milton Bradley was on another team, would you like hiim?

::Does Drew Impression::

I don’t care about players on other teams.

I don't know what

difference that would make. I thought he got jobbed when he was called a very bad name by the ump and then hurt his leg.

He got jobbed when he flipped out on the field in the middle of a game...

and had to be physically restrained by his manager and in the process of him struggling with his own manager he hurt his leg? Really? That part is totally on the umpire?

he was

incited, and you know it.

aaaaaaaaand...you miss the point.

no, sir

I do not.

He was incited...

he chose to act in a way that led to injury. You’re so damn gung-ho about “being adults”, but you can totally overlook this behavior from him? Talking out of both sides of your mouth is a neat trick, you should show me how you do that.

of course I don't over look it.

When he argued with the ump, he was suspended. When he argued with Lou, he was sent home. When he spoke out to the press, he was suspended for the remainder of the season.

That doesn’t mean that I think we should take a huge loss on trading him, however.

SWL is not saying that he advocates a huge loss

He’s saying that those incidents matter. Sure, he was incited – and later punished. But he didn’t HAVE to react to the umpire in SD the way that he did when he blew out his knee. To suggest otherwise is machismo bullshit – bigger men that MB have walked away. For example: MLK Jr.

Then address why him hurting his knee was a part of him "getting jobbed".

You act as if I want Hendry to just release him and eat the contract.

it seems that plenty of people do, even if they haven’t outright said it.

Really?

Perhaps a poll is in order?

I'm almost at that point.

I’ll let you know when.

dood

you were at that point during the season.

Let it go. He’s a pretty good ball player. Not getting back a reasonable return is bad for the team.

Exactly drew. Financially, the Cubs are going to get jobbed on getting value for MB.

JIMMAY!!!

drew...

The only reason I'm truly taking that stance is on contradiction to your ridiculous stance, you know that, right?

He was suspended twice last year. Truly nice bookends, really. At the beginning of the season, and to close the season. It sums Milton Bradley up perfectly.

o.0

he was suspended on a completely joke call at the beginning of the year, and the suspension was reduced to a game. Give me a break. He didn’t do anything (in that instance) that a dozen other players on the CUBS haven’t done.

I’d bring up Ryan Theriot having to be physically restrained by the 3b coach for being called out stealing at an away game in the middle of the 09 season, but I’d only be repeating myself again.

FYI - Dan, SWL and I all agree that Theriot sucks

At least I think that’s correct.

lol

aye

Ya, Theriot sucks.

I think you are forgetting

me too ::waves hand::

Emelie - December 10, 2009 reply

Not too mention many on here agreed the 1st suspension was not warranted.

That's irrelevant.

He was suspended. Maybe it wasn’t justified, but he was suspended in part because of his history.

what?

and that somehow makes it his fault, right?

Cmon. That ump jobbed him. You know it. That ump knows it. Everyone knows it.

sure it was an awful call

but it isnt that smart to go ballistic after spending all spring training saying he changed, or not serving the suspension when he was sitting out with the groin injury

jesus christos - December 9, 2009 reply

The stuff he said to miles was the straw that broke the camels back

jesus christos - December 9, 2009 reply

nevermind, misread what you said

jesus christos - December 9, 2009 reply

I liked Milton plenty when he hit .329, .436, .563, .999

And seeing he’s being reunited with his batting coach and clubhouse confidant when he had this success, I think it’s worth the shot of keeping him for another year.

I don’t care about the quotes, I care about on field production and Milton is going to give you more than any option we have right now.

He got along with his teammates for the majority of the year, go back and watch those on field celebrations during the Cleveland series. Only when the Cardinals ran away with it, did Milton really start chirping.

I can’t get over the fact that people want to blow $21 million over quotes.

239 Brigade - December 9, 2009 reply

your favorite beverage?

I think everything discussed here for the last few months...

… qualifies as the repeated beating of many dead horses.

6 million

is the most we should eat. I don’t like Milton Bradley but he isn’t the worst thing to ever happen to the Cubs. A positive turnaround could happen.

I wouldn't mind

seeing DLee, Aramis, Dempster or somebody step up and say bring Bradley back he will help us win the division. I completely understand that clubhouse chemistry matters and Bradley seems to hurt it but things can change. How many chances did we give Heilman and Gregg this year, they definately hurt the team with their awful pitching.

I agree completely

6 million + Burrell for MB. I’d do that deal. Sounds like TB wants us to pick up 8-9 million of MB’s 2011 salary.

All the talk of just cutting him and eating $20+ million is utter nonsense.

Thanks to Ricketts, eating the entire contract isn’t an option, and that’s a good business decision, IMO.

Some of these guys are making millions of dollars to play baseball, I think they’ll be able to stand MB if that’s what it comes down to…..

If you were a GM...

…would you want to be on the hook for 15 mil with Bradley for the next 2 years?

6 mil won’t even come close to getting this done.

How is a .257 BA with 40 RBI in 124 games

not terrible?

It is terrible, plus he is an ass on top of it

it's not very good

I’d refer you to Soto’s numbers to get a good idea of “terrible.”

Both Be Terrible... Arrrrrr

Your ignoring his CAREER NUMBERS!!!!!

like his career BA of .277 and his OBP of .371….

and his career average of 94.1 games played per season…wait wut?

Can't argue with the RBI # being a disappointment

Bradley did improve over the season which surprised me knowing his past attitude problems. I would bat Fukudome 1 and Bradley 2 and see what happens with Lee & Ramirez hitting with those 2 on base 40% of the time. Put what is in the past in the past.

thus bunching all of our lefty bats together

Assuming Fontenot isn’t playing.

The righty lefty is stupid

Look at the Phillies and tell me how all the lefties together works.

"stupid"?

It’s about making opposing managers go through their bullpens (for matchups) late in games. It’s not stupid.

Also, the Cubs have spent a lot (obviously too much) on Kosuke and Bradley to break up the righty logjam in the middle of the order. If Kosuke and Bradley hit 1-2 — and Z’s not he starter — the Cubs 3-9 would be right handed, or they’d be forced to play Fontenot (barf).

I understand the concept

of why you want to separate them but if your team would be more productive with those 2 at the top of the order, get over the possibility of late innings issue and try to score runs in the first 6-7 innings against the starting pitcher.

heh...

how much $ is Lowell owed? I wonder how much of Milton’s contract we’d have to pick up…Lowell would be a legit backup for Aramis AND a perfect replacement for Fox’s bat off the bench. But whatever.

1 yr @ $12M.

I doubt the Red Sox are that stupid.

Boston is hardly the “small market” town that Bradley can perform in. They’ll eat him alive.

mgrace17 - December 9, 2009 reply

What the hell would we do with Mike Lowell?

08:$12M, 09:$12M, 10:$12M

Would he be just a bench player? Give Aramis 30-40 games off?

If it's part of a 3 team deal, we may be flipping him for someone else.

I flip you off.

Hug hug, kiss kiss, hug hug, big kiss, little hug, kiss kiss, little kiss.

Get a freakin' room you two

No way. I wanna watch.

Brandt can't watch, though, or he has to pay a hundred.

Let me just run to a cash machine

Big Labowski for the win!

spelling fail for the loss!

Open for a threes.....?

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

OK, but counting Dan, Me, and the Maniquinn dressed as Gilligan...you would make it a quartet.

I think I need to bleach my brain after this

thanks guys

I'm very large so maybe a quintet would descibe it

And by large I don’t mean what you might be thinking about.

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

This would make sense...

as the player that would be “flipped” from the “mystery team.”

agreed

ahh...

but he’s a good character guy.

Orioles / Rangers deal

Chris Ray to Texas for Kevin Millwood.

Part 2 of that deal just might be Bradley to Baltimore for Millwood.

Just saying.

krummy12 - December 9, 2009 reply

Except Baltimore needs pitching not outfielders

Trade them Marshall

then they can have both.

You mean the starting pitcher

the Cubs don’t want to start?

Sure Lou wants him to start

in LF

I read somewhere that Baltimore is out

I imagine Baltimore is out as well

if Hendry is trying to get a team to eat some money. They don’t need Bradley in the OF, and there’s enough DH options out there to find one.

Actually, I think they are going to hold onto Millwood. I think the thought process is that they want an innings eater in there with the young arms so that the pen isn’t that taxed.

Reading into McPhail’s comments this offseason, I think he expects them to push for .500, if not a playoff spot. I think he’s setting the bar high. It’s actually not that outlandish an idea … although it is unlikely. If Wieters can get it going, then their lineup is pretty solid, and if one or two of the young arms can step forward …

Of course, that’s a lot of if’s. The .500 target is probably more reasonable for this year.

Doesn't any Cubs/Orioles trade

require the Cubs to send a player that Andy McPhail knew as Cubs President? I thought that was an MLB by-law.

Who’s next on the east bound train after Patterson and Pie?

Well

I would argue with a stack of young arms on the way, Baltimore could probably use Millwood for a year…but I doubt they would want to pay him $12 million for a year of what he’ll do. They can get his production for less than that, and don’t have enough hitters to make a difference for the young pitching staff they want to run out there. Hence their possible desire to flip Millwood for Bradley.

krummy12 - December 9, 2009 reply

I'm pretty sure Texas will be picking up a good chunk of that contract.

mgrace17 - December 9, 2009 reply

That's because....

you are looking at it through Cubs colored glasses.

Just got home from work and see that I have missed nothing

We are still being held hostage by Jim Hendry and his giant mistake, Milton Bradley.

Just got home from lunch and see that I have missed nothing.

We are still being held hostage by Jim Hendry and his giant mistake, Milton Bradley.

I hope the link works:White Sox GM: Milton Bradley not a bad person

mobile.chicagotribune.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=11901D3D93A65553876E.4511?view=breaking_sports_article&feed:a=chi_trib_1min&feed:c=latest_breaking_sports&feed:i=CC87DDB98A353B1218476748F8CC886F

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

Williams can have him

I think Steve Stone would self-combust

mgrace17 - December 9, 2009 reply

ha

He says

I don’t know that I see a fit for us.

He’s just commenting on MB personally.

http://mobile.chicagotribune.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=11901D3D93A65553876E.4511?view=breaking_sports_article&feed:a=chi_trib_1min&feed:c=latest_breaking_sports&feed:i=CC87DDB98A353B1218476748F8CC886F

Fixed...

… copying / pasting is SUCH a chore.

that's the funny thing about Milton

I bet he is a pretty decent guy. He’s just too high-strung to do play for the team with the biggest tendency in sports to get tense (2003 NLCS, 2008 NLDS, etc.).

Correct, which is why...

… their idea that his “edge” would help the Cubs get past that is laughable.

right

Totally agree.

I don’t remember too many people laughing then. I remember alot of complaints about us losing in the playoffs because of a lack of edge, etc, etc. More scrappiness, real go-getter, team player, butt smacker, fiery guy, etc. etc. etc.

If that's what people said then, they were incorrect.

Further, I don’t see anything in those that describes Bradley except “fiery”. He’s not a go-getter or a team player.

I wasn’t applying all those terms to Bradley, just pointing out that were debates on what the team needed and many advocated that the team was missing a nonquantifiable asset such as team player, spark plug, etc., which I felt went along with the desire to get Bradley for his supposed edginess.

Copy and paste with iCab on an iPhone

Is not always so easy, especially with a puddy cat who wants to help…

eths - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

IT'S GONNA HAPPEN!!11!!1

Signs that good things HAVE happened today

Latroy fawkin’ Hawkins and Randy Wolf are signed by a division rival

Good things happen when Randy Wolf pitches against the Cubs at GreatTasteLessFilling Stadium (see Big Z no-no). And a 37 year old Latroy Hawkins can not be coming into his own. no…freakin’….way.

This should give the Cubs 2 to 4 guranteed wins next season. with or without whats his game.

WiscoCubs - December 9, 2009 reply

Be careful what you wish for

I think both of them will be tough next year. It has taken Hawkins years to recover from the damage Dusty did by forcing him to be a closer. He is a terrific set up man and the bullpen was a black hole for the Brewers last year.

Carefully wishing for...

the Cubs to win 2-4 games next season. thanks for the reminder.

WiscoCubs - December 9, 2009 reply

If Hawkins is not a closer...

…. he’ll pitch reasonably well. He did so in Houston. That was a pretty good signing for Milwaukee.

I agree

Very open-minded.

If Hawkins is not a closer...

…. he’ll pitch reasonably well. He did so in Houston. That was a pretty good signing for Milwaukee.

no way

Whoops.

How did THAT happen?

That's racist!

PS I never tire of recounting LaTroy's great quote about Cub fans

Latroy pretty much got the Bradley treatment which he did not deserve. The first time he came back to Wrigley to pitch for the
Giants after he was traded he said the people had misunderstood and that he loved playing in Chicago, loved being on the Cubs and loved playing for Dusty. Then a reporter asked what he thought of the fans. " There is only so much love to go around " responded LaTroy.

LaTroy pitched poorly when Dusty made him do a job he had already been bad at and ruined him as a set up man at least for the cubs but Cub fans were just nasty to him and it was uncalled for.

I don't know if I buy that "people misunderstood"

sounds like revisionist history.

Not really

LaTroy was more or less indifferent to both fans and press. He did not explode like Bradley but was considered aloof and unfriendly and therefor tagges as some sourpuss. His point was I loved playing baseball for the Cubs but he didn’t care for the fans and given how he was treated I think he was right.

When does the overflow start?

Nothing really has even happened and this page is already running really slow.

cubswynn - December 9, 2009 reply

Ugh

740 some odd posts and nothing has happened.

If everyone wants an overflow, I'll start one.

Everyone wants one Mr. Yellon... Or should I call you Deep Goat?

But here’s your overflow thread. JUMP!

I'm not Deep Goat.

Idnians want to move Wood

I said a few weeks ago Bradley for Wood, the money is real close especially if Wood vests his option. Maybe we kick in 2-3 million to help the Indians and then we sign Cameron. I wouldn’t be against this.

It needs to pass the Drew sniff test first.

and mine... sniff, sniff.

heh

I never wanted them to trade Woody in the first place.

Well then!

Trading Bradley for Wood would make you happy. Right?

it doesn't solve the problem

of who plays RF (or center, if Dome moves back to RF) but if it doesn’t cost too much — or better yet, doesn’t cost anything at all — sure, go for it. Bring Woody back, have him set up or close.

Sure it does.

Once Bradley is gone, Cameron gets signed to play CF.

you know what I mean

the Cameron deal isn’t guaranteed. But sure, go for it.

they never traded Wood

sorry

I never wanted them to not-sign Woody.

Then the deal is dead

Now that's a good idea.

He only problem

is that Bradley really pissed off Cle on his first go-around there. I don’t think the fans would accept him.

It wasn't the fans.

It was the manager, Eric Wedge. Wedge is gone.

I think the Cubs are committed to Marmol being the closer.

I wouldn ‘t mind this, but it’s not happening.

Well if Wood would set-up, it would work...

Why would he?

He’s going to want to get paid in his next contract, too.

I’d guess Wood’s not coming back any time soon.

Why couldn't Marmol set up for Wood again?

Worked pretty well in 2008.

Why, indeed.

Do you see the Cubs doing that?

Maybe.

If Kerry Wood is reacquired, I can’t see them paying him $10m to be a setup man.

Which belies the point

Why would they acquire him? Because Cubs fans want them to?

He’s not coming back . . .

how much confidence

do you have in Marmol?

What inning is it?

middle of the 8th

two outs, runner on. Cubs up 3-1.

Go get'em Carlos.

ok

Very little.

But I think the people that make that decision have substantially more.

Who's my other options?

Gregg?
Heilman?

lolz

Bowrowski

well

theoretically, Woody.

we did this yesterday...

the Indians have no use for MB

Might as Well

JUMP

nice try

Funny guy

Here's the real one

Link

Oh, har de har har.

Here’s the real jump. Seriously.