There isn't a whole lot more to say about the Cubs' 7-2 loss to the Diamondbacks than is expressed in the headline to this post. The Cubs are now 14-28 all-time in Bank Holding Company Ballpark, and that doesn't even include the two NLDS losses in 2007.
Having to wake up at 3:30 am for work, I shut the TV off after the fifth inning when it was 5-1; Dan Haren seemed to have the makeshift Cub lineup (Reed Johnson hitting cleanup? Seriously?) baffled. Only Mike Fontenot broke through after that, capping a 12-pitch at-bat with a solo homer. Another solo homer, Alfonso Soriano's third leadoff jack of the season (and 52nd of his career; his next one will tie him with Craig Biggio for second on the all-time leadoff home run list behind Rickey Henderson), provided the only other Cubs run.
Can we now knock off all the Soriano-has-to-be-dropped-from-leadoff talk? He produces in that spot. He hits better in that spot. The Cubs don't have a reasonable alternative. And guess who's leading all MLB leadoff hitters in runs scored? That's right, Soriano, who now has 19 (Brian Roberts -- ever heard of him? I haven't -- is leading AL leadoff hitters with 18 runs.)
It's also difficult to win when three of your best hitters are out with injuries. Milton Bradley will be back in the starting lineup tonight, and hopefully, so will Aramis Ramirez. Fontenot has done as good a job as possible filling in at 3B, but he doesn't really have the arm for the position. Justin Upton beat out an infield hit in the fourth inning -- I think Ramirez would have thrown him out, and the next hitter, Ryan Roberts, flew out. That would have ended the inning -- instead, the D'backs went on to score four runs, after Ted Lilly loaded the bases with a walk and Dan Haren, who threw the first CG against the Cubs since CC Sabathia threw one on the last day of the 2008 regular season, doubled in two runs and then Chris Young doubled in two more. The inning should have ended in a 1-1 tie; instead, the game was essentially over.
Thus, I want to spend the rest of this post discussing something that has begun to bother a number of regular posters here who have contacted me, and it's also bothering me, too. That issue is the large number of FanPosts that involve tired old topics that have been discussed over and over and over, or posts that discuss a mishmash of things in one single post. "Cub fan rant" from yesterday is, unfortunately, an example of both. Touching on the Milton Bradley issue, the bullpen, and the DeRosa and Marquis deals all in one quick paragraph, it was both unnecessary and went over ground that we have covered over and over and over and Peavy.
We have a lot of new members here since the SBN-Yahoo partnership was announced. And I welcome all of you, and I know all the longterm regulars do, too. However, I want to call everyone's attention again to the Community Guidelines, specifically to this portion that has to do with FanPosts:
Some of the qualities that the most popular FanPosts often have in common are:Keep in mind that if your post contains only one point or idea that is not developed, expanded on, or supported with arguments or data, it is really not a FanPost -- it is a comment that should be posted in an existing thread, or posted as a FanShot. (emphasis added, not in original post)
- They expand upon the main idea with supporting examples, or statistical data, or a link to a relevant article, or a "thinking question" for others to consider, etc. -- something beyond just the main idea itself. Don’t just post a large quote from an article and say "What do you think?" Post your own opinion, too.
- They explore a topic, idea, or question that has not been explored recently, or at all, at BCB. Please check both the FanPost and FanShot recent post lists to see if your topic is already being discussed.
Some examples of good recent FanPosts can be found here, here, here, here, and here. All of those posts explore interesting ideas that had not been discussed previously or recently, are written well, and don't simply regurgitate something from another source (that might be better as a FanShot). There are several posts permanently on the right sidebar that give good tips on how to write and format good posts, under "BCB Specials & Site Info"; if you are new here (or even if you aren't, for a review), please read these carefully before you post. It's simple courtesy when you join a new internet community, to find out the customs of that community before you dive in -- I've heard from many people who have told me they lurked here for many months before posting. It's simple courtesy and those who have been here a while will be happy to help you out if you're new.
Finally, a reminder, related to the above: BCB is not a message board. If you just want to post a rant or a one-line comment, post it under an existing post -- don't start a new one. Thanks for understanding.
0 recs | 687 comments
Heard it was ugly
All I can say is: Patience
They’re sorting through injuries and inconsistent play. I honestly believe Lou is using this as an extended spring training, just like 2007.
blackhawk24 - April 28, 2009
As long as the result...
… a division title… is the same as 2007, I’m fine with it.
(Needless to say, wins in October would be nice, too.)
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Will 85 wins this year get the Cubs a division title or the Wild Card?
DrCrawdad - April 28, 2009
Not likely, but paces in April aren't all that meaningful
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
If it gets us to the playoffs I don't give a monkey's.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
This is one game I'm glad I couldn't get on TV
listening to Pat & Ron’s gallows humor was painful enough. Ron: “Oh jeeze, sheesh, gosh darnit.” Pat: “This was one ragged inning.”
Emelie - April 28, 2009
IS YOUR W FLAG STILL BY THE DOOR ????
Get it ready Cubs do better tonight and on Wednesday,,,,,,
cubs north - April 28, 2009
it is ... although
It got all tangled up in the wind and it’s going to take some doing to untangle… a worthy task, however, if it serves the cause
Emelie - April 28, 2009
Tangled?
Maybe THAT’S the problem! Untangle it post haste!
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Em forgot to take her W flag down yesterday.
That’s the real reason we lost. We all agreed in the game thread last night. You should change the recap to reflect this!
/s
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
You outed me!
forfend! and… yeah, I had a bad feeling when I drove up and saw the sorry state of the flag.
Emelie - April 28, 2009
Thanks, Al
Looking at the standings, its a long time since the Cubs have looked up several positions in the standings to the Pirates. Ugh!
IF the Cards put 9-10 games of distance between us, I will “go out on a limb” and say, Wild Card is going to be a more realistic opportunity in 2009.
But the way the team has been been playing this season even healthy, I have to keep reminding myself, “It’s early…” “Only April…”, “Just the First month…(stomach in knot)”
The E-Man - April 28, 2009
It IS only April.
Here’s a good example. On April 24, 2007, the Cubs were 7-13, in last place, and six games out of first place.
Stop worrying so much. The Brewers, who were 13-7 that day, finished 83-79.
Last year’s Diamondbacks started 21-9. Remember? When they came into Chicago at 23-12, everyone was conceding the NL West to them. The Cubs swept them and they finished 82-80 and missed the playoffs entirely.
Long way to go.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
I know, I know
patience has been my forte, but there is a part of me saying maybe this team is just not as good as many cubs fans thought over the off season. After winning two division titles in a row maybe we all thought this was going to be easy, and maybe the players did too. I know the injuries have played a big part the past week but our relief pitching doesn’t seem in tune with a 162 game season and our bench is lacking, plain and simple. Our starting pitching can do better.
While I know there is a lot of season to be played and we will be getting healthy soon, maybe this team just isn’t as good as we thought. Not ready to say wild card yet but I do know the Cardinals looked positioned to be in this for the long run.
mrcubsfan - April 28, 2009
The Cardinals ...
…. still have rotation and bullpen issues, and they can’t possibly hit this well all year.
Meanwhile, the Cubs have been playing with a 21-man roster the last two days. Will it be easy? No, but it’s not supposed to be easy.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
It's never easy Al,
because we’re Cubs Fans!
mrcubsfan - April 28, 2009
Well, that goes without saying.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Why can't a lineup that includes Pujols, Ankiel, Ludwig, et al continue to hit very well???
BLou - April 28, 2009
They very well could. Teams have done more with less than those three, but
those three have to produce because the rest of that roster doesn’t have a lot of pop. If you don’t let those three beat you, they can be stopped.
willie mays hayes' gloves - April 28, 2009
Cards team OPS .854
basically tied with Boston for best in all of baseball. Barden, Duncan, Thurston, Molina all doing well. Rasmus isn’t exactly terrible either. Greene and Schumaker aren’t slap hitters.
ol Pete - April 28, 2009
Well it is a matter of degree
I don’t think anyone expects they will continue to hit .300 as a team. They should continue to be a decent hittng team though.
rlpete - April 28, 2009
It's Ludwick, but I agree
SouthernCub - April 28, 2009
Then why should we
bother playing the rest of the season? Crown them now.
Not Bruce Froemming - April 28, 2009
i disagree about the rotation issues...
They seem pretty solid to me, going forward at least.
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
Why do you think the Cards offense will fall off?
Aside from Barden (who is a platoon player and will be replaced by the All-Star Glaus once Glaus is healthy), only Molina is hitting out of his mind so far. And Ankiel has slumped out of the gates. The team may drop off a tiny bit, but that offense should be at or near the top all year. Pujols, Glaus, Ludwick, and Duncan (versus RHP) are mashers, Ankiel is pretty solid, and Schumaker is a very good OBP guy.
SouthernCub - April 28, 2009
Yes, those are all good hitters.
But they cannot sustain their present level. No team can.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
As I asked before, who is playing over their heads?
For them to fall off dramatically, somebody has to fade big-time, right? Pujols is Pujols, Ludwick is really good, Duncan is a great platoon hitter and is matching his 2006 numbers. They’ll replace the 1.000 OPS at 3B with a .900 OPS guy in Glaus, and they’ll get more out of Ankiel and less out of Molina. The rest seem on their usual paces.
The team is on pace for 900+ runs. I suspect they’ll end up with ~900 runs, which would be tops in the NL. That offense is really really good. They upgraded at several spots this offseason (Duncan over Miles/Kennedy and Greene over Izturis). They’ll keep scoring, I think.
SouthernCub - April 28, 2009
I still think the biggest question is whether
Carpenter’s injury is short term. If brief, he can still be a big factor.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
That's an entirely separate issue...
Al said their offense will fall off. I simply asked for a better rationale as to why, other than “no team can score 6 runs per game.”
Carpenter’s injury is going to be problematic for them the longer it lingers. If he’s back soon and stays healthy, they are real trouble. They’d then have arguably the two best starters, a strong #3, and an adequate #4 and #5. And they’d have a mashing offense. If Carpenter doesn’t get/stay healthy, they’ll have to do it with a bit of smoke and mirrors from the #5 pitching slot.
SouthernCub - April 28, 2009
I'll admit this is entirely conjecture
but if I was a Cardinals fan (shudder) I’d count Carpenter out. He looks to be made from the same mold as The Employee and I doubt he ever pitches a fulltime starting rotation schedule again.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
He may be done, but Carp came back from major arm
surgery to win a Cy Young for the Cards while under a cheap contract. All without whining.
I see no comparison to Mr. “Perfect Mechanics”
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
I think you're right on both counts...
I think this team is not as good as many thought, but I don’t think that will necessarily preclude us from winning the division, either. We’re still a very talented team – just not a team that is as able to withstand injuries as we were last year.
Hopefully the lineup will get healthy and start producing soon.
SouthernCub - April 28, 2009
There are alot worse things
than being 9 and 9, and a fairly tough schedule to date. As a wise cub fan once said “Some see the glass as half full, some as half empty. Some Cubs fans see it as half full of Kerosene and on fire”
Ihatethecards - April 28, 2009
lol! how true.
Emelie - April 28, 2009
I've heard a version of that glass half full, half empty where for Cub fans
it’s “when will it tip over?” Right now I’d like to see the on fire(in a good way of course).
katie casey - April 28, 2009
Last night was the perfect storm. Very weak lineup, a ballpark
that we have had little success in and a pitcher that gives us fits. Does Haren have one of the funkiest motions you have ever seen? I get sick just watching the guy pitch.
On a positive note – Dome. This guy is really playing well. He looks so confident now. He has that air about himself that he knows exactly what he’s doing and he’s going to do it. He’s a really good defender and I really hate to see him leave RF when Milton comes back.
willie mays hayes' gloves - April 28, 2009
Wasn't that a nice catch
and throw out at the plate last night. Simple execution, something some teams cannot do. I hope Fuk keeps this up because when he plays like this he is a very nice player.
mrcubsfan - April 28, 2009
Yep. He's as a really smooth player. Very little wasted motion and everything moving in the
right direction. He makes it look so effortless. He’s not out there diving and stumbling around. If you want to be an outfielder, just watch him play.
willie mays hayes' gloves - April 28, 2009
+1
If we just play some better fundamental ball (I know I’m harping on this in all my posts), we could turn this into a positive week.
We already faced Haren, so that’s out of the way. We come home to play Florida (who’ve dropped 7 in a row) for 4 games, and won’t have to face Josh Johnson. That’s a plus.
Then, we get 2 games vs the Giants, vs their #5 (Sanchez), and unfortunately Lincecum.
On a side note… we play the Giants for 6 games. 2 at home and 4 on the road. Why on earth do they schedule it like that? Same thing with Florida: 4 at home, 2 on the road. It’s just stupid. Split it up evenly.
SackMan - April 28, 2009
Colorado, too
Two at home, four in Denver.
I try not to make sense out of the schedule anymore. The old couple in Pennsylvania (or wherever) who used to do it was better at it than the computer. Putting St. Louis and Arizona on the same road trip is silly. I think STL and San Francisco form a road trip later in the season.
Not Bruce Froemming - April 28, 2009
Someone at MLB
should brush up on their travelling salesman problem skills
wax eagle - April 28, 2009
3 game series in Miami...
Fri-Sun
Chris Dobbertean - April 28, 2009
Yes, gettting back to last night's baseball contest...
…it wasn’t so much a game as a pitching and base-stealing clinic put on by the illustrious, industrious Arizona Diamondbacks. There’s really no shame in getting beat by Dan Haren – he’s one of the best No. 2s in the league. I just wish the Cubs hadn’t given up seven runs to those light-hitting speedsters.
I thought David Patton had a bounceback appearance of sorts. The wild pitch was obviously a killer (not to mention Fontenot’s error), but he got some ground balls and a couple of Ks. I think Patton could still turn out to be a decent middle-innings-eater for the team. We’ll see. The Shark did OK in the ninth, too.
daver - April 28, 2009
The Cubs were close
To turning this into a real pitcher’s duel. Get Haren out in the fourth and who knows what would have happened.
That said, Lilly wasn’t particularly sharp. He’s had two good starts and two bad ones. But he’s 1-1 for both halves. Baseball is funny sometimes.
Not Bruce Froemming - April 28, 2009
Yeah, Lilly - as always - deserves points for gutting it out.
His control was off all game. Unfortunately, once again, Chris Young made him pay.
Ah, well. This is a six-game road trip. They still have a shot at breaking even.
daver - April 28, 2009
THE B TEAM.....
Should watch and learn from Dome…That was a perfect throw to the plate ….
cubs north - April 28, 2009
Cubs are a team with multiple issues
We can keep hoping that when the calendar flips to May it will be the dawn of better baseball. But I think any good Cub fan can objectively see that the 2009 version of this ballclub is flawed to the point where you have to begin questioning things.
I’ve said this multiple times, but bottom line the 2008 Cubs were blessed with an inordinate number of players producing excellent seasons and remarkable overall team health.
A starting infield that included Mike Fontenot, Aaron Miles and Micah Hoffpauir on a ballclub that supports a $140 million payroll about says it all.
Meanwhile, the Cardinals seem intent to perhaps run away with the NL Central. They are a fine ballclub despite the protests of Cub fans who insist we are a much better team on paper and it is only a matter of time before the Cardinal pitching implodes.
BLou - April 28, 2009
There's no question that the Cardinals are playing well now.
I question their ability to sustain this pace, that’s all. Remember, as I wrote above, everyone was saying much the same things about Arizona at this time last year. How’d that work out?
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Well...
Your post is classic denial statement. Instead of objectively looking at the Cubs too many of us have been distracted into trying to find fault with the Cardinals. It’s a slippery slope my friend. And a trap that too many of us fell into hook line and sinker in 2004. Instead of trying to find fault with the Cardinals I’m much more inclined to be deeply and increasingly concerned with what is wrong with this Cub team.
BLou - April 28, 2009
It's not denial.
It’s reality. The Cardinals are a good team. So are the Cubs. Neither is playing to its true level.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
But ARE the Cubs a good team???
Sure, there are core strengths on this ballclub. But there are also profound issues.
1. The bullpen sucks. There, I said it. Hoping for material improvement out of Patton and Cotts is silly. Gregg is what he is. Heilman can’t pitch any better than he already is, and his history shows that he melts as the season progresses. Marmol is carrying the burden for an entire bullpen, which at some point shall where on his effectiveness.
2. Sean Marshall isn’t a starting pitcher.
3. Geovany Soto is completely lost. I’m not going to be silly enough to say it is Rick Wilkins redux, but clearly he is in line for a dramatically reduced production level from 2008. So what is his real ability as a hitter? Have pitchers adjusted?
4. Derrek Lee plays like he is 43 instead of 33 and has become a critical problem in a lineup card that insists he bat 3rd.
5. Milton Bradley is off to the worst conceivable start imaginable, and unless he REALLY gets going and carries this team the Wrigley boobirds are going to be withering in the dispense of their venom. How will Bradley handled that given his, ahem, history?
6. SO MANY career years in 2008.
7. SO FEW injuries in 2008.
8. A wretched bench situation.
9. No Mark DeRosa.
10. No Kerry Wood as closer.
11. A Lou Piniella in the dugout who looks as though he increasingly wants to be sitting poolside in Tampa Bay and taking the Steinbrenners up on their offer to serve as Special Advisor to the Yankees.
12. A farm system largely barren of immediate solutions to what plagues the big league club.
13. A NL Central that is A LOT better.
14. A Mike Fontenot who has no busines being an everyday player.
BLou - April 28, 2009
They are a good team...
they just aren’t as good as last year’s team, which was REALLY good.
Some of your points are not permanent things (like #3 and #5), and several are VERY debatable (#s 2, 6, 13, and 14).
The 2009 Cubs aren’t as good as the 2008 team was. But they are better than you are giving them credit for being, and the NL as a whole (with the exception of St Louis) isn’t as dramatically improved as you are suggesting.
SouthernCub - April 28, 2009
Fine
I wish I had transcripts of this board from 2004 at about this time. There is an awful lot of rationalization that we as Cub fans are engaging in right now. Too much. And if you dont’ think Pittsburgh and Cincinnati are better, then you aren’t paying attention. Will they compete with St. Louis for division supremacy? No, but they are teams on the definite rise.
BLou - April 28, 2009
Pittsburgh and Cincinnati are better - no question...
but they’re nowhere near as good as the Cubs, which was my point. It’s a two-team race in the NL Central, so talking about Pittsburgh and Cincy is pointless.
You are quick to cede supremacy to the Cardinals – I disagree. They’re very good, no doubt. But the Cubs are absolutely better than they’ve shown thus far in a very small sample size.
SouthernCub - April 28, 2009
Maybe I'm wrong....
…but neither the Pirates or Reds’ lineups scare me.
I think they’ll both fade after the All Star break.
carmen_fanzone - April 28, 2009
+2
… for both teams.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Wow, you're being generous.
I expect them to fade by the time I finish this comment.
znohitter - April 28, 2009
LOL
carmen_fanzone - April 28, 2009
ha
sue369 - April 28, 2009
Wow.
Reading that, you’d think the Cubs were 0-18 instead of 9-9.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
At least Blue Mike is giving reasons why he thinks there bad
instead of name calling or telling us to pound sand.
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
He really is trying, isn't he?
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
of course
he’s being increadibly hypocritical about it.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
9-9
I don’t think that’s a bad record at all considering the injuries the Cubs have had. I am actually encouraged that the Cubs have been able to split the six games with the Cards so far under the circumstances.
memphiscub - April 28, 2009
What troubles me is the rotation - which has sustained no injuries
I have lost all faith that Zambrano can be the ace of this or any staff. He just does not have the mental make-up to do it. Dempster is likely to be good, but he will almost certainly regress. Harden is being treated like a porcelain figure. And there have been some pretty awful performances so far form each pitcher.
dr stabbingworth - April 28, 2009
Why is the rotation the troubling thing?
I understand what you mean about Z. I just don’t have the same confidence in him anymore. Harden has surprised me, aside from that one start he has been awesome, and hasn’t gotten hurt yet. Ted is Ted and will finish the season with 15-19 wins and 2-3 catchers plowed over.
Dempster is the problem for me, he doesn’t have control like he did last year and we are locked into him for the next 4 years.
Marshall is and will be fine. As the fifth starter a 6-7 IP 2-3 run effort is stellar.
Bullpen/Lack of ability to hit will doom this team.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
It troubles me because they haven't pitched particularly well, or deep into ballgames
Pitching is king (heh) and this team could really use some stronger Haren-esque pitching performances. Especially considering how weak the bullpen is.
dr stabbingworth - April 28, 2009
True they do need to get deeper into games
A complete game this week would do wonders for the team, but if we don’t score runs it won’t matter.
As long as this team sits around and waits for Soriano or Aramis to bail them out there will be no success.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
The rotation doesn't trouble me
too much. I remember seeing a stat the other day (don’t remember it exactly), but our starting rotation has put together a relatively high percentage of “quality starts”. What this leads me to believe is that our offense is not producing.
What I know is that we have a few guys on our team right now that have a track record of producing that are not producing, Lee, Soto and Bradley to be specific. These guys are likely to get back on track, and when they do, we will start winning a lot of ball games because our rotation is producing those quality starts.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Huh?
Care to give some examples of these awful performances? Because, by and large, I’ve seen a starting staff that’s been pretty consistent (in a good way) throughout the season thus far.
daver - April 28, 2009
WHIP for Marshall/Zambrano/Dempster - 1.417/1.5/1.417
Averaging 6 innings per start (Z is slightly higher)
I would agree that they have pitched some good games, but consistency has not been this staff’s theme. And with the majority of the offense out, they really need guys like Z to step up.
dr stabbingworth - April 28, 2009
Absolutely they need to step up.
But it’s early and guys are building up their arm strength. There’s really not much point in looking at WHIP or ERA at this point in the season.
Maybe I just have low standards, but if a starter goes 6 innings and gives up 3 or fewer runs, I thank him and hope the bullpen can hold it together. Sure, some seven or eight inning starts – and, dare I say, a CG here or there – would be nice. But I still think the starting staff has been one of the bright spots thus far.
daver - April 28, 2009
Harden
went six in St. Louis, and against the Reds at home. He won’t go eight, but he’s doing fine.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
It's mostly Z and Dempster
Neither have been particularly good this year. And if Lou is going to baby Harden, then other guys have to take up the slack. The bullpen is not particularly good, and they’ll be a lot worse if they get tired.
dr stabbingworth - April 28, 2009
The farm system issue is the most troubling to me
Mapmaker - April 28, 2009
I agree.
I admire the Red Sox out of jealousy. They always seem to develop some star talent out of there system and fill in the holes via free agency. Pedroia, Varitek, Ellsbury, Papelbon, Lester, Youklis all came out of their system. Not all were drafted by the Red Sox, but they picked up some talent via trades and gave some quality talent up (Hanley Ramirez, etc.).
I haven’t seen much quality out of the Cub system other than a few players either produce with the Cubs or develop into something elsewhere after a trade. I see this indicating a problem in the organization.
My single largest hope is that new ownership allows the Cubs to add staff to improve the minor league system and scouting operations.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Even leaving Prior & Wood out of the equation...
… this year’s Cubs have Zambrano, Guzman, Marshall, Marmol, Theriot, Soto and Hoffpauir on the 25-man roster, all products of the farm system within the last 10 years. That’s a decent enough haul, maybe not as good as the Red Sox, and there’s no doubt the Cub farm system needs help. But it HAS produced in recent years.
FWIW, Jason Varitek is not a product of the Red Sox farm system. He was drafted by the Mariners and included in a major league trade to Boston in 1997 (for Heathcliff Slocumb; how’s that for a lopsided deal?).
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Derek Lowe and Varitek
for Heathcliff. Maybe Dan Duquette’s best move as Red Sox GM.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
Probably the worst trade in Mariners history.
Imagine how good that 2001 team would have been with Lowe and Varitek.
That happened while Lou was managing there, too. Wonder if he had any input on that deal.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
They were in his doghouse, most likely....lol
carmen_fanzone - April 28, 2009
And Varitek was a switch-hitting catcher
right up Lou’s alley (though Dan Wilson was firmly entrenched as Lou’s catcher).
I wonder if Lowe struggled as a youngster with Lou’s intensity.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
Very possible.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Lou
He sure as hell did…. that’s what happens when Lou doesn’t get a bullpen. He goes indiscriminately crazy and demands that every prospect get traded to get him the bullpen help he needs. That year, he also had his GM Woody Woodward trade Jose Cruz, Jr. to the Toronto Blue Jays for RHP Mike Timlin and LHP Paul Spoljaric.
Now, Timlin had the World Series hero pedigree and was rather effective for the Mariners while he was there, although not lights-out. Spoljaric, however, sucked absolute rocks. Cruz was supposed to be the savior of the franchise from the weather-vane like rotation of left-fielders since Junior Griffey had started his brilliant run in centerfield. He was a top 5 draft pick for the team and had already hit 12 home runs for them with an .856 OPS in 49 games that season. He would go on to hit 14 more home runs with Toronto the rest of the season. He went on to have a mediocre career, but not one that is without its highlights. The Mariners, however, have still never had a consistent leftfielder… and no Raul Ibanez doesn’t count… he should never have been a leftfielder in SafeCo Field.
Lowe had a couple bright spots that season, but was an unproven rookie. Varitek had struggled to cement his place as Wilson’s eventual replacement. That wasn’t seen as the ridiculous trade it was until year’s later, mostly because Slocumb did save a lot of games for the Mariners the rest of the 97 season, leading them to the AL West title and a first-round exit at the hands of the Baltimore Orioles. Slocumb, Spoljaric and, to a lesser extent, Timlin would all under-perform for the rest of their Mariners careers.
Piniella and a bad bullpen are a volatile combination… potentially franchise crippling. When we see Josh Vitters traded for a less-than-Brad Lidge-type bullpen arm just so Hendry won’t have to hear Mt. Lou erupt in his ear everytime he has to use Neal Cotts, you’ll all find this out.
jameslcrockett - April 28, 2009
Lowe
Had a great quote about Lou that he as a hitter he never really trusted pitchers period. I think it is a huge problem.
Doggie Stalker - April 28, 2009
well
Lou was able to hit them from the get-go. We talk about how that makes him give up on hitters who struggle (Pie), but it also probably informs his opinion on pitchers in general.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
yes and no
There are lots of hitters such as Varitek that he grew impatient with… but he also showed a lot of patience with Cruz and then used him when he got him. He also showed a lot of patience with AROD, who sucked on his first couple trips to the bigs. He also believed in Edgar Martinez, when a lot of people in the organization had given up hope of him staying healthy… and never really gave him a chance to be the run producer he could be in the first place… making him sit behind Jim Presley for years before finally getting his chance.
His real blind spot is with the potential of his young pitchers. He has absolutely no patience for their short comings and burns out the ones he gets his hands that produce or has them traded. He burned through so many “cant-miss” pitching prospects in the early-mid 90s. The two most glaring errors under his watch were getting nothing from Mike Hampton (traded for Eric Anthony) and Derek Lowe… all because they had a couple of bad outings when they were rookies.
It’s his most glaring weakness as a manager and a personnel man. On pretty much every other issue, I’d go to war with him on my side.
jameslcrockett - April 28, 2009
Dont forget...
Hanley Ramirez was a BoSox.
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
Right.
The Red Sox got pretty good value in return for him, though.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Doh
totally forgot Tek was a Mariner, but was only looking at last 5 years in my what have you done for me lately.
Cubs produce Marmol (very good), Guzman (tbd), Marshall (just getting a chance), Theriot (very good leaving 2b vs SS out of it), Soto (very good) & Hoffpauir (TBD).
Of the 5 Cub outfielders, 1st Base, 3rd Base & #2, #3, #4 starters or Closer, not one came from the system or was with the organization below the majors, other than rehab.
Even more surprising, I can’t think of a single star player to come up recently with another team who was included in an acquisition of talent after the Pierre deal. Given the nature of the interwebz, this is the opportunity for 100 responses showing me the one I forgot.
My examples may not be perfect, but there is not much talent to get excited about within the system and unless a team has a Yankee budget, teams win with low cost emerging superstars.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Um.
1. Not really. The closer role is still poorly defined, but there are quality arms in the pen.
2. So? We have several other guys to plug in as needed.
3. What? No he isn’t. He just hasn’t started hitting quite yet. His defense is still first-rate.
4. Ummm… no.
5. Worse than starting, say, Joey Gathright? I don’t think so.
6. Irrelevant.
7. Also irrelevant.
8. Minor injuries happen. Give it a week,
9. Trades happen.
10. Ditto.
11. So you want to replace the guy who is 2-0 in winning the division with an unknown quantity? Really?
12. FAIL. Not even close. We may not have a replacement MLB team stashed at Iowa, but there are guys who can come up and play in the bigs and be competitive while doing it.
13. Beyond our control and therefore not worth worrying about.
14. See number 8.
znohitter - April 28, 2009
GOTTA AGREE........
On every one of your 14 points….But to me Lou looks lost in the dugout …….Like Why am I even here ???
cubs north - April 28, 2009
Well, if I were playing without my 3-4-5 hitters
and losing 7-1, I’d have the same look.
The fact of the matter is, without Lee, Bradley and Ramirez, the Cubs are built for small ball. But if they can’t get on base, then their offense is beyond mediocre.
Give Haren credit – he settled down after Soriano’s homer – and hope for a return to health for the middle of the order. Any team that loses their 3-4-5 hitters is going to struggle, and the fact that the Cubs are 9-9 despite their injuries bodes well for the future.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
Haren has had an outstanding start this year.
His ERA was 1.38 coming into last night’s game. Give the guy credit, all right.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Exactly.
He did exactly what he should do, especially against a lineup without its 3-4-5 hitters.
Looking at the Cubs lineup last night, you had a feeling it was going to be a low-scoring game, and if the Cubs could scrape across a few runs they had a shot. Unfortunately they didn’t, and Lilly looked shaky.
Hopefully, Ramirez and Bradley return tonight, lend some balance to the offense, and the Cubs score some runs.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
They should.
Petit is no Haren.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Ted did not look good last night....
….all his pitches up. Curveball not as sharp as normal. When that catcher for the DBacks hit that homer, I figured we need to score some runs or this one’s a goner.
carmen_fanzone - April 28, 2009
His stuff was up
Rob Drake didn’t help him any, either, according to Gameday.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
The strikezone
was all over the place again if Gameday is accurate. Patton got screwed on a few calls and Harren was getting some gifts, especially on pitches that looked up and away to right handers.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Gameday at the Major League-level is accurate
they use the same pitch f/x technology is every park.
Now, at the minor league-level, the stats inputters mark the pitches, which can lead to some interesting strike zones.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
big surprise
Drake is a real corn-dog.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Drake's the one who tossed Sinatro & Piniella last season
during the Marlins series.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
I hate that guy
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
That's the multi-chinned dude, right?
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
um...
he’s the guy who tossed Lou at the White Sox game down at not-Comisky for no reason.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
true but what difference does it make
if the 3 and 4 are not hitting in the line up?
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
Even when Bradley wasn't hitting
he was still working counts and getting on base via walks, so that helps. Just think back to the Houston series – you could see his impact, despite a lack of hitting.
And just the way pitchers have to pitch to Lee and Bradley makes a big difference. Pitchers aren’t afraid of Reed Johnson hitting cleanup.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
agreed
but when your #3 and #4 hitter both have an OBP below 300, it is hard to make an argument about missing them when they are not in the line up, right?
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I miss them, but I understand your point
The nice thing is, Fukudome has been a revelation, especially in the No. 3 hole. And I still think Bradley’s intensity when he is on the field helps this team.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
no doubt
it is truly a damned if you do damned if you dont scenario
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
At this point it is.
Though things are bound to improve, hopefully beginning tonight.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
we hope.
there is the chance that the Lee we are seeing at the plate, is the true Lee. It happens with players over time.
Again I am not anti Lee, and I want him to produce when in the line up, just as I want every Cub to produce.
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I really do have hope for Lee
Admittedly, I"ve not seen all the games, but his approach looks better — hitting to the opposite field, driving the ball more. We’ll see.
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
That was Lee's comment on Sunday
that he put a good swing on the ball, drove it to left, and then he gets neck spasms – it’s just been that kind of start to the year for him.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
I just hope there's no causality...
…between DLee hitting deep fly balls and getting neck spasms.
daver - April 28, 2009
I wouldn't bet against it
I hope it’d been aggravated by something else, but when you swing a bat, tendons and muscles in your neck move.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Lee said something
about sleeping funny the night before that game that made his neck hurt.
gwood - April 28, 2009
yes
I remember. But I had a pinched nerve/muscle in my neck and back last week, and every time I moved my arms, it flared.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
based on my history with the spine
(note, I am not the same athlete he is, nor do I have the access to medical experts he can afford)
I have had a torn lumbar muscle, pinched nerves in the neck and back, two herniated discs in the lower back, and am getting a MRI on my neck which has been diagnosed prior to being “military neck” and have had spasms in the neck due to it. Once you injure any part of the spine it never is the same. It can act up out of no where from something as stupid as a sneeze. It is no laughing matter as well. I felt for Sammy when people ripped him about back spasms, because i have had them.
That (the neck) is my #1 concern with Dlee, and I fear it is causing him to not hit like he is expected and should be. This is why I have been pro Hoff, to allow Dlee to stay healthy and be effective when needed, as well as to see what he has before its too late (i.e. trade deadline).
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I hope not, either.
If there is, then I think a DL stint needs to be seriously considered.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
You're projecting.
daver - April 28, 2009
Like a Cylon?
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
Sure. Or like R2D2.
daver - April 28, 2009
Thankfully
the Cubs are not at their most desperate hour yet.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
Help me
Obi-Lou ku Dome! You’re our only hope!
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
wrong
Obi-Fu-Ku-Dome is
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
1) No, it doesn’t. Heilman is pitching well. Gregg is doing ok. Marmol should come back soon. Guzman has some real heat. Patton was put into a very difficult situation and really only made one big mistake against the best hitter in baseball.
2) Really? Cause he’s in the rotation.
3) Too early to say.
4) The card insists? Plucky card.
5) Too early to say.
6) Yes, and?
7) Yes, and?
9) Who, currently, is hitting below the Mendoza line.
10) NO KERRY WOOD? YOU FREAKIN’ HYPOCRITE! YOU INSISTED THAT THE CUBS DUMP HIM! You said “No way do I sign Kerry Wood!” Good lord.
11) You lack the knowledge and credibility to make this statement.
12) Josh certainly has plenty of people to talk about regularly.
13) Maybe.
14) Perhaps the only really smart thing you’ve said in this post. We need a backup infielder who can help us with second, short and third.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Last year..
after 20 games the Cards were 13-7 only one game worse than they are now, and they finished 86-76 4th in the Central. The Marlins started this year off 11-1, and I am sure people started thinking they could run away with the East, and now they have lost 7 in a row. My point – It’s EARLY!
23Ryno - April 28, 2009
Reply is my friend,
that was a reply for BLou. Trying to get the hang of posting here more often. Sorry.
23Ryno - April 28, 2009
been there done that
you will catch on, just post often and it becomes second nature
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
and some day, you, too, may have 20,000 comments!
I aspire to catch Daver some day…
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
That is one heck of an acheivement
23Ryno - April 28, 2009
Dare to dream!
I’m only at 10K . .. but I’ll get 11 in the next week or so.
It’s ok to call that pathetic . . . I won’t be offended.
And, welcome.
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
im over 5k now
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
Go! Go! Go!
Get to 10 by September
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
should not be a problem
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I wish you the best of luck man.
Nope, I don’t think it is pathetic at all.
Thanks
23Ryno - April 28, 2009
Drew & Daver say there's cake, but
I don’t believe them. I believe there is just a webcam feed to the SNL VIP green room and all you see is Elliot Gould naked.
Don’t walk toward the light.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
I want to know if EA pops out of the cake
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
Eric Allen?
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Earl Anthony?
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Eric Anthony?
jameslcrockett - April 28, 2009
Emelia Airhardt
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
Yikes
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
I have 24,609
Didn’t realize I had that many.
sue369 - April 28, 2009
Sue has the powah!
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
lol
sue369 - April 28, 2009
I can't wait to see what 25,000 is
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
I hear it's like seeing God.
daver - April 28, 2009
race ya.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Way, way wait...
…you have more than I do, Sue?!
My Queen, I bow before you!
daver - April 28, 2009
All Hail!
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
awww
sue369 - April 28, 2009
You are like the Hank Aaron of BCB
You quietly go about your job day in and day out. Then all of a sudden, BAM!, you are the record holder.
DTJchris - April 28, 2009
I just wanted to say...
… that the above comment was the 666th in this thread. I felt the thread needed another one, so here it is.
The pregame thread will be up at 6 pm CDT.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
hee
sue369 - April 28, 2009
so does that make a certain other poster who's made no bones about wanting to be the all-time BCB poster...
…the Barry Bonds of BCB?
I think it’s time we check Daver’s computer for post-enhancing software…
ballhawk - April 28, 2009
You'll have to get past my attorney.
Yo, BLou!
daver - April 28, 2009
catch me if me can!
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Good luck!
I
runpost like the wind!daver - April 28, 2009
hah
I passed me easily.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Oh, I'll get there.
I both know it.
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
Thanks
23Ryno - April 28, 2009
I would agree with you if you were talking about another team.
I cannot stand LaRussa (mainly because he is the Cards coach), but honestly i respect the heck out of him. He gets it done. And he gets the best of his players.
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
They won 86 games last year
and I did not think that was a good team. Tony La and Duncan are not to be taken lightly. They win 4 or 5 more, we lose 4 or 5 more than last year, we have a race. I don’t like them at all but I do respect what they can do with a ball club.
mrcubsfan - April 28, 2009
It blows my mind...
I mean i am giving LaRussa all the credit possible, and yes it does help that he has Pujols in the lineup everyday, but still, some of the supporting cast is like a turnstyle every year and he always makes it works.
Dont even get me started with Duncan, i wish Rothchild was half as good as Duncan.
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
The are a championship organization, plain and simple
Mapmaker - April 28, 2009
The=They
Mapmaker - April 28, 2009
Hey mapmaker
long time no see. :)
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
I've been around here and there
Just haven’t posted much. Nice to hear from you.
Mapmaker - April 28, 2009
Just a week ago, people were crowning the Marlins.
They’ve dropped 7 in a row since.
SackMan - April 28, 2009
My only hope at this point...
…is believing Jim Hendry is NOT sitting in his office twittling his thumbs. And I think Lou is probably getting frustrated, too. I’ve said it before, but this was the first off-season I was very disappointed in Jimbo’s moves.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
I'm sure Jim and Lou are both trying to think of ways to fix the problems.
Getting four key performers back in the next two days would be a start. You can’t win with a 21-man roster with three key hitters and one key reliever unavailable.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
I’ve said this multiple times,
Your truest statement.
A starting infield that included Mike Fontenot, Aaron Miles and Micah Hoffpauir on a ballclub that supports a $140 million payroll about says it all.
Injuries happen. Either you get the team through them, or you give up and quit.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
true
but each of those you name aer professional players, and still need to produce. They are not Lee/Aram/Font/Riot, but still have to get on base, work counts, and field their positions to the best they can. No one took a walk yesterday, that is recockulous!
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
"No one took a walk yesterday, that is recockulous!"
You cannot take a walk if it’s not given. Haren was dealing yesterday and was pounding the K (though inconsistent) zone. You cannot rely on walks all the time.
cubsnlinux - April 28, 2009
i agree to an extent
when you are swiging at the first and second pitch time and time again, that is helping Haren as much as it is hurting yourself.
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
we know
they all press when they get nervous. It’s some kind of team-mind-lock.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
I never know
how the players strike the balance between being aggressive and trying to work the count.
It seemed that our hitters took the approach to be aggressive last night and swing at the first strike you see because it may be the best pitch you get to hit. That was probably the best approach given how well Harren was throwing last night.
gwood - April 28, 2009
+1
cubsnlinux - April 28, 2009
that happens when the opposing pitcher is on the top of his game
You have to try to get on base some other way.
1. TheRiot should stop hitting the ball in the air and should just concentrate on line drives and his inside out swings.
2. Soto seems to be getting his timing back but should look to hit center, right-center more often and should hold off onto pulling everything until he gets back in the groove.
3. ReJo..well what can I say? He looked completely over matched yesterday. Anyways he was in the lineup because of all these injuries.
4. Fontenot had a couple of nice at-bats but he will do fine as a backup then as an everyday player.
5. Fukudome…Repeating April 2008 and doing a bit more. I really like his approach at the plate. He doesn’t try to swing for the fences every at-bat. His motto looks to be get on base at any cost.
6. Miles..Argghhh.. but again we are seeing more of him only because of injuries.
cubsnlinux - April 28, 2009
I agree
especially with #1. Theriot seems to be showing off his warning track power and trying to pull the ball recently. Maybe that is to try and keep the infield defense honest, but he has so much success poking the ball between 2nd and 1st, why change anything?
gwood - April 28, 2009
also happens when in a slump
everyone wants to get the big hit to wake the team up
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
So who's the second baseman then?
daver - April 28, 2009
Theriot?
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
I thought we had Roberts by now
:P
gwood - April 28, 2009
I my dreams maybe.
santoswoodenlegs - April 28, 2009
The lack of walks yesterday can also go to Haren
he was on, for the most part.
I think some of the guys – Johnson for one – are pressing a bit, trying to do a little too much with so much of the thump out of the offense.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
Really frustrating because he's hitting the ball well....
…it’s just right at somebody every time.
carmen_fanzone - April 28, 2009
He seems to be
swinging at a lot of bad pitches at the same time. In the few games I have actually been able to watch with Johnson playing, he is swinging at a lot of pitches up above the strike zone.
gwood - April 28, 2009
the last two games
I’ve noticed that, too.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
It's hard to take walks
when Harren is pumping strikes over the plate at will. Harren pitched a very good game yesterday.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Agreed.
Two of those three guys are starting because of injuries. I still believe Fontenot can perform reasonably well at an everyday level, though, granted, he has not proven it quite yet.
The home run last night was a positive sign. He worked a deep AB against a pitcher who was flat-out dominating and then drove the ball deep into the stands. It made no difference in the outcome of the game, but it was something.
daver - April 28, 2009
Well the Cardinals pitching has imploded a bit
They aren’t pitching that well, their offense is carrying them. That bullpen is still questionable and the 3-5 starters aren’t good major league pitchers.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
Somes I have a difficult time finding the balance between complaining about worthless posts...
…and coming off like a jerk. It’s hard to interpret someone’s jokes or sly comments on a forum unless you are familiar with them ahead of time (like “pounding sand” or “GameBoard” or “TWSS”). I don’t like to come off like a thread police, but there has been an increase of posts that are either worthless or demeaning in one way or another. I definitely attribute this to the direct pipeline to Yahoo!. I come here for fun, interesting, worthy posts about baseball, but frankly, when it’s just complaining because we lost one single game, it’s just a waste of everyone’s time.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
I mostly agree with your thoughts, but
people do have a right to complain about losing single game.
Whether the chance to come back is ruined by a bunt attempt with two outs in the ninth, a missplayed fly to right that leads to multiple runs instead of ending the inning, or the ball getting stuck in the glove by the SS and slowing the double play chance. It’s okay to complain.
It’s okay to commiserate a loss and wonder if improvements need to me made and speculate on what improvement will have the most impact (cough, bullpen, cough).
The line gets crossed when posters declare the season over than resort to insults and profanity when faced with facts like the season ends October and it’s flippin April.
Those of us long time lurkers and frequent posters may need to do a better job welcoming new people, but we are also struggling with the “F this team” emotional posting from the fire and forget Message Boarders (harkens to the pirate graybar). Those used to message board mentality don’t seem to take well to suggestions of civility or procedure. I’m certain these are the exceptions, but they are the obvious, and vocal, newcomers.
Ledge jumpers are welcome to quit the team, but please document your fan retirement elsewhere.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Well said, especially
The line gets crossed when posters declare the season over than resort to insults and profanity when faced with facts like the season ends October and it’s flippin April.
These same posters then adopt the posture that all they are doing is trying to engage in “debate” in the archaic term i.e., strife; contention.
Emelie - April 28, 2009
than = then
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Totally agree.
daver - April 28, 2009
Well said Em.
sue369 - April 28, 2009
I like the comment
“Please document your fan retirement elsewhere”. Well said.
rlpete - April 28, 2009
Rec'd
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
X2
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
make it green
and it is also wrong, when someone posts something and is attacked by people (new and old) in a hateful manner instead with respect. you disagree with someone, show some respect, just like you would want them to show you
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
"Your argument is flawed and without merit.
Verily, I declare you are incorrect."
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
i declare a thumb war
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
You forgot to say
1-2-3-4
gwood - April 28, 2009
Al, to me, this is the gist of it
I don’t think that those exceptions stick around long enough to even read the suggestions.
And,
Absolutely. I’m not calling anyone out and wasn’t the last time I commented on that, but way to often, someone thinks a valid way to dismiss someone’s point is to say they only have X comments. How does that encourage anyone new/lurking to jump in?
Finally, some of the civility is gone. There’s a lot more name-calling and personal attacks if a comment strikes someone the wrong way, or sometimes just because of who the poster is.
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
and the negative attacks on new or old posters
and biuckering back and forth instead of keeping it civil, IMO reflects on the site as a whole, not a particular poster. No one will say “man, x on BCB is a jerk” but rather “stay away from BCB, they are brutal”
I think everyone needs to think twice sometimes, since Al is the big man on campus, we should all ask ourselves when getting into a debate “is this post something that will reflect bad on BCB, and should I reword it to show some respect”
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
WWAD?
What Would Al Do? ;)
You’re right, though — and it’s the same logic as to why I cringe when Cub fans act like jerks, or when I see Americans oversees being jerks, etc. . . it reflects on a larger group.
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
+USA USA USA
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
And my homonym misuse is getting bad
too/to . . . and that should have said, “overseas”.
Argh.
Shanghai Badger - April 28, 2009
with the typos I post
I can read them no problem. I look at the typos as reading drunkenese
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I thought we already called Spellcheck up...
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
Badger that point was a direct and excellent point..........
I won’t even playfully mock your homonym misuse
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
The #1 problem with this site
and the reason I no longer post here and am trying to find an alternative blog is the “regulars” who attack every poster that they don’t agree with or anyone posting something they perceive as negative. I know everyone has their own view of what this site is for but for some people it is a place to express their feelings about what is going on with the team. If we are getting our butts kicked and look like a AA club then why can’t people point that out? I don’t see the need for the endless back and forth between the “positive” posters and the “negative” posters in game threads. When I can have more fun reading the opposing teams site than our own something is wrong. Fans at South Side Sox, Viva El Birdos, etc. can rip on their team when they suck and cheer them on when they are doing well but here you HAVE to be positive. You CAN’T criticize any player during a game thread. If you do the thread will become a bunch of “regulars” whining and complaining about your posts. It’s really sad. Cubs fans are great and we should have the best blog out there but the people that take it upon themselves to police this site and attack others make it a waste of time to visit. We deserve better as fans and Al deserves better for putting so much into making this blog great. Go Cubs.
LerxstCub - April 28, 2009
but here you HAVE to be positive. You CAN’T criticize any player during a game thread.
That’s not true. There’s a big difference between saying “oh, no, Lee GIDP” and saying "well, there goes DP Lee again, the season is over’.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
This is exactly what I'm talking about.
So what if someone calls him DP Lee? Who cares? Do you think you’re going to change someone’s opinion about a player by getting into an argument within a game thread with them? Why can’t people ignore posts they don’t like? I’d rather ignore 5-10 posts about the season being over than have to scroll half a page down during a game thread to skip all the bickering back and forth about people being “negative” and not real fans.
LerxstCub - April 28, 2009
you're missing the point.
it’s not necessarily the “DP Lee” part, although I think calling him that is pretty stupid.
It’s the “the season is over” part. Cubs fans have an ability to magnify a bad game into being a metaphor for an entire season — and then take that metaphor literally.
I don’t want the gamethreads contaminated with people calling the season over in April. I don’t want the gamethreads contaminated with people calling Milton Bradley weak, or Soriano mental, or calling anyone a f@g or a whatever.
Feel free to scroll on by. I choose a different way.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
for me it is the
“you are an idiot” type replies. those never lead to a good conversation or debate.
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I try very hard
to not descend to that level. I don’t always succeed.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
im not point a finger at you
i am just talking in general
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I know
but I sometimes deserve that finger pointed at me.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
I hate these too
and there are a lot of “regular” posters that do that. Or the classic “Watch much baseball?”. Seriously, I don’t see this kind of thing on other sites. I don’t know why we have this problem here.
LerxstCub - April 28, 2009
It happens on other sites
one thing to keep in mind is that BCB has, by far, the largest number of members on SBN. our numbers for everything are increased.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
so we cant claim small sample?
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
our LOSI about other sites is high
but our LOSI about BCB is low.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Help me out
LOSI?
gwood - April 28, 2009
Lack of Statistical Information
I believe.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
or how I like to think of it
Lack
Of
Sanity
Irrevelant
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
Lack
Of
Statistical
Information
We have a high LOSI about Bradley as a Cub.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Thank you
gwood - April 28, 2009
what sites?
Im not familar with many others. I would be curious to read what others put and see if that is something that would fit with Al’s policies.
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
I'd like to see....
… everyone try to be nice to each other, avoid the personal attacks, keep the profanity level to near zero, and if the Cubs have a crappy game, talk about it without ledge-jumping.
That shouldn’t be that difficult.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
you'd think
Emelie - April 28, 2009
LOL - then you haven't spent much time on "other sites."
Believe me, I’ve seen far, far worse than what goes on here.
daver - April 28, 2009
Do you see
how policing the game thread makes it less enjoyable to read? I agree you should get called out for attacking individual posters but saying a player sucks, well that is just part of being a fan. Why get worked up if people think Bradley is weak. Who cares what they think? If they aren’t attacking you or someone else on the board why do we need to turn the thread into a “Bradley’s weak” – “No he isn’t” debate?
LerxstCub - April 28, 2009
so I shouldn't stand up for my team?
it’s ok for other people to say what they want but not ok for me to say what I want?
Um… I have a problem with that, I do.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
why is Bradley weak?
If someone states the reasons instead of just saying he was a dumb signing. I am willing to listen to factual reasons on why he sucks. You put that in the comment…….. you will be less likely to have someone complain about you being negative.
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
+1 (hr)
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Because we're real people.
We have feelings and opinions – you can’t just come here and dump your negativity on us without getting some back.
daver - April 28, 2009
because each of deserve to be respected
and there are mature ways to debate differences
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
Absolutely.
But mature debates rarely arise when someone walks into the room whining and yelling like a six-year-old.
daver - April 28, 2009
Yet, my 6 year old would disagree.
In a loud, whiny voice while crying, but disagree anyway.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Mine, too!
daver - April 28, 2009
hell
mine’s 11, but he’s right up there.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
But that plays into it
The best way to deal with trolling is to ignore it. Responding prolongs it. Ignoring it works every time.
dr stabbingworth - April 28, 2009
except it doesn't.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Eh?
Responding provides another opportunity for a reply. If trolls get the idea that nobody is listening, they’ll find somewhere else to troll.
dr stabbingworth - April 28, 2009
but they don't
a few days ago, there were two guys (actually I think it was one guy and his sock-puppet) came onto the pre-game thread. They started off suggesting that the cubs would lose. One would post, then the other would reply, like clockwork. They even followed us onto the first-pitch thread. It took an email to Al to shut them up.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
That was the worst
Seems like an epic waste of a person’s time, but whatever.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
Take a look through the game threads
The people who troll constantly get more replies than any other legitimate post. People have to stop feeding it.
And for the dedicated bozos, you ignore them, and send Al an email. Problem solved.
But you can’t say ignoring trolls doesn’t work when so many people here fall into the trap.
dr stabbingworth - April 28, 2009
How often do people say the season is over?
I assume that’s hyperbole, but then I wonder what people you think “contaminate” threads.
ol Pete - April 28, 2009
Seems like every time the team is behind by 2 or more runs
and a professional baseball player does not get a hit or base on balls,
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
oh
if only I’d take your bait, you hope…
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
if you ask me its trolling
to refer to fellow Cub fans as contaminants along with an exaggeration.
ol Pete - April 28, 2009
we both know
what trolling is.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Season over? That's just silly.
The Cubs are suffering thru underwhelming starts by a few players AND injuries to key players. In spite of that the Cubs are 9-9. There are 144 games left.
Season over? Season over my …
DrCrawdad - April 28, 2009
I saw Alexei got his first grand slam the other night.
Man, he looks good hitting those.
daver - April 28, 2009
Alexei hit 4 slams last years and now he’s got 5 in his short career. When Pujols hit the slam I heard the announcers say that it was is 7th (or maybe it became 8) anyway whether Pujols now has 7 or 8 it made me realize what an accomplishment that is for Alexei.
Alexei has started out for slowly for the Sox, in spite of the slam. I’d bet that he’ll start doing better, just as I expect the Cubs to turn it around (not that they’re really all that badly off).
But these last two posts of mine, more examples of how all I do here is blast the Cubs – as I’m often accused…
DrCrawdad - April 28, 2009
Seriously
any attempt to talk up the Sox is actually bashing the Cubs :P. You are guilty.
gwood - April 28, 2009
He started slow, but what he displayed
last year definitely earned him a grace period.
He’d look really good on the northside.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Y'know they say he reminds a lot of people...
…of a young Alfonso Soriano. I was about to say he appears to be a much better infielder but, shockingly, his UZR numbers at 2B don’t look particularly good (-8.3/-10.6 in 1017.1 career innings thus far). He looks like a natural shortstop – I guess we’ll see how he does there.
daver - April 28, 2009
Not wanting to end the comradery but...
… Alexei was a much better 2nd baseman than Soriano was.
DrCrawdad - April 28, 2009
I don't think
you are going to get much argument there. Soriano is a better left fielder than second baseman, I think.
gwood - April 28, 2009
And Ramirez had a good rookie year...
… but I won’t compare him to Soriano, who’s been an offensive force for years.
DrCrawdad - April 28, 2009
I was strictly
comparing them defensively as well. I don’t think there is much comparison offensively.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Way to step way, way out on the limb there Doc.
N Oakley - April 29, 2009
Cubs could have had Alexei...
… and he might be available. The Sox are very high on Gordon Beckham, a SS. They also are high on Getz too but not as much as Beckham. That leaves the Sox with 3 middle infielders – someone has to move.
DrCrawdad - April 28, 2009
I hear the Cuban Missile may be pointed towards center field...
ballhawk - April 28, 2009
You may be right. Somebody is moving...
… moving to the bench, moving to a different position or moving to a different team. Guillen has said that Beckham won’t be up this season. If Beckham continues to hit, he’ll be up.
DrCrawdad - April 28, 2009
Yeah, he's just one of those players who has caught my attention in the last year or so.
Carlos Quentin, too.
daver - April 28, 2009
I'm surprised you noted Quentin last year as
he flew so low below radar. :P
N Oakley - April 29, 2009
I think Drew is agreeing that you can call him DP Lee if
that makes you happy. It’s the people declaring the season or a player a failure at 18 games as being a little overstated.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
and saying I'm giving up on the Cubs.
Thats fine but writting a whole rant on why on the other hand and then coming back to the post on commenting on it…. annoying.
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
I think most of us are saying you can criticize and
complaining and criticizing are a normal part of a season, especially during a putrid game (like last night).
It’s okay not not like a certain player and believe they are overrated, under skilled, a guess pitch hitter, etc. I may be in the minority, but I see there being a line.
If people want to declare the season over, a player done, or the Cards as World Champions in April, that’s not complaining or discussing possible solutions. That’s firing for impact and most of those posters don’t hang around to back up their bombs.
How can anyone know if Lee’s career/season is done after 18 games, or if Bradly won’t play 100 games, or that Dome will keep this up all season? Let alone state it as fact.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
As a new poster / long time lurker...
… it seems fairly evident you are glossing over the real problem. Its not the OCCASIONAL negative post, or the offhanded disappointment showing through, that seems to piss everyone off so.
Its somebody coming on to the game thread and REPEATEDLY wasting our time with senseless suggestions and whining. The fact is, it is INFEASIBLE to move D-Lee to AAA, no matter how poorly you feel he’s hitting. The reasons as to WHY this is infeasible have been discussed, and any sensible Cubs fan, no matter their position on DLee or Hoffpauir or whoever else, has to have seen and read those points by now. You may not LIKE the Bradley signing, but he’s here now, part of our team and important to our postseason hopes. Posting 27 “i told you so’s” over the span of 3 hours isn’t helpful, its antagonistic. We are all watching the same game. We all see who is and is not playing well. Lets talk about why, or how it can be improved. Whining about whats done, and giving clearly impossible suggestions as to how to fix it, frustrates everyone that is here to have REAL conversation.
Its not the occasional negative post that gets everybody riled up. Its the “i’m going to stick my fingers in my ears, close my eyes, and whine and moan and stomp and whine some more” posters who aren’t contributing anything to this community that get everyone so riled up. The number of posts you’ve made won’t matter if at least a portion of those posts have some value. Its the posts that lack any tangible value, negative OR positive, that need to stop.
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
Read and rec'd.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
well that sums it up nicely
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
Andrew
You rock! I realize small sample size…. but you are one of my new fav posters with a post like that!!!
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
And here I liked his avatar
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
True
but these people feed off of the BCB police. I don’t care if you are posting positive things or negative things but it’s the endless back and forth during game threads that ruins it all for me. It’s not fun to read and it never changes anything. If you have a problem with a poster and you think they should be removed from BCB for being antagonistic then tell Al. Don’t clog up a game thread with a discussion about how DLee can’t be moved to AAA. You just can’t argue with some people.
LerxstCub - April 28, 2009
You've got that right
You just can’t argue with some people.
There hasn’t been a more true statement made.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Very true...
… and very, very unfortunate, especially seeing as how the fact that we are here should mean we are FANS first.
I guess i’m guilty of forgetting not everyone is “glass half full”.
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
I just like your avatar
:P (btw rec’d your comment too)
gwood - April 28, 2009
Added a rec.
daver - April 28, 2009
As a follow up...
… here are some interesting policies from elsewhere in the SBN world…
From the Chicago Bears blog:
And from SBN’s welcome guide:
Now, BCB is its own beast because of its size and number of active members, and i doubt we’ll ever see Al get as ruthless as the WCG guys at least claim to be, but it is stated that this is a community that moderates itself. That does NOT seem to be an endorsement of the “BCB Comment Police” or whatever, but it does also pretty clearly show that if one member continuously irks the rest, he’s in violation of this site’s policies.
The most important thing seems to be this: The goal is to make this community fun for everyone. A few obnoxious people can ruin that.
Just a little something for thought…
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
Very well said Andrew.
sue369 - April 28, 2009
Why, thanks!
That means a little more coming from somebody with such an undeniably awesome avatar… Iowa ’07 here!
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
Go Hawks!!!
sue369 - April 28, 2009
Disagree.
Most of the regulars here can accept constructive, reasonable criticism of a player and the team as a whole as long as it’s tempered with some indication that the new person is, well, reasonable. The problem I see is a lot of people come here to use BCB as their own personal barf bag – regurgitating all their bile, angst and frustration on the very real people who are here on a regular basis.
Sorry, I don’t come here to ignore – I come here to participate. If you post something I disagree with, I’m probably going to let you know about it.
daver - April 28, 2009
that's
exactly how I feel. And it’s not because we’re the same person, either.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
i often do get you two confused :-P
heine41 - April 28, 2009
Exactly...
… if for nothing else than the health of my scrolling finger alone, a balance needs to be reached. I’m gonna get carpel tunnel with all the scrolling past worthless / pointless / valueless comments i’m doing!
Nobody is at Wrigley screaming ever 10 minutes about sending DLee to AAA. Why would we accept it here as if its reasonable?
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
you are stockpiling bonus points.
If they are… they are the type that give Cub fans a bad name
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
Andrew, you
are quickly becoming my new hero.
sue369 - April 28, 2009
Bravo
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
You had to bring it up?
That HAS to be referring to the Neifi bunt against the Nationals in 2006. I was at that game. It was Woody’s return from injury, he looked nasty in the first inning (2 k’s and groundout), but then proceeded to give up the long ball like it was his job. Then came the bottom of the 9th, runners on the corners with 2 outs, and Neifi decides to lay down a bunt. I was at the game with a buddy of mine who’s a Sox fan, and I remember just looking at him with this incredulous look on my face, and he just kinda shrugged and laughed. I tried to erase that game from memory, but you brought all the nightmares racing back.
For all the people morbidly depressed about this year’s team, I give you the line up from that game:
Juan Pierre
Matt Murton
Todd Walker
Michael Barrett
Jacque Jones
Neifi Perez
John Mabry
Ronny Cedeno
Kerry Wood
GROSS
Schwa - April 28, 2009
that is an awesome line
if we want to somehow be as bad as possible
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I thought that game was an excellent example of
appropriate complaining. If you can’t complain when a player screws up something that basic, what else is there?
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Absolutely right
I have little patience for whining. We seem to get a lot of that.
Sometimes I react to the whining badly, but the torrents of it that seem to follow every loss, or even every bad play, is beyond the pale.
But if I see BS, I’m going to call it. Feel free to do the same to me.
Not Bruce Froemming - April 28, 2009
I am struggling with the
F this team, this game is over (in the 4th inning), where debating to some means I’m right your wrong, etc. It has made the game threads miserable for me.
sue369 - April 28, 2009
Well after the Young double yesterday
Fangraphs had the Cubs chances of winning at 9%, so its hard to blame somebody for giving up on the game.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
Wait,wait, wait...
The Cubs still had a chance?
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
i guess not since we got 1 more hit
nji232 - April 28, 2009
Geez, remind me to stay off Fangraphs during the games.
daver - April 28, 2009
They can send you a tweet after every play
That shows the change in % chance to win. Its really useless for anything beside comedy most of the time.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
lovely
that could be really uplifting or really depressing.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Oh man...that's too much info.
At least it is during the game. I like Fangraphs a lot otherwise.
daver - April 28, 2009
I'm terribly addicted to checking our win probability after every inning now @ FanGraphs.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
2003
last time we won a series in Arizona.
I suspect a lot of that had to do with Randy Johnson, who the Cubs have never beaten, but still, inexcusable.
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I refuse to believe the Cardinals rotation is for real.
Wellemeyer, Lohse, Pineiro, and whoever else they throw out there simply isn’t going to get the job done.
cubswynn - April 28, 2009
IF Wellemeyer has a good year...
It is time to dump Rothchild.
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
That's some very interesting (read: bad) logic.
kanderber - April 28, 2009
Point being...
Duncan can take our old pitchers and make them good (assumption Wellemeyer has a good eyar) Rothchild has developed what pitcher? Oh thats right none.
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
..and how many other pitching coaches are like Duncan in developing pitchers?
Oh, that’s right, none. Fire ’em all!
carmen_fanzone - April 28, 2009
True...
They are not many but at the same time how many teams have young pitchers that contiune to get better and better?
How many young pitchers have we had in the past 5 years that continued to get better and better over their career?
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
Well, name some other pitching coaches that are good at developing pitchers...
Maybe it’s not the pitching coach, maybe it’s the talent of the pitcher himself. You can’t compare Rothschild to Duncan. You can’t compare Duncan to anyone else in MLB.
carmen_fanzone - April 28, 2009
So we just happen to have all the
low talent pitchers?
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
No
We have had pitchers with a lot of talent, but hey tended to be injury prone (Wood, Prior, Guzman to name a few).
At the same time though, we have Zambrano, Marshall, Marmol who have all gotten better as the years have gone by. Granted with marmol it may be a little early and he is freakishly talented.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Isn't that what Rothschild was doing
with Marquis? It can go both ways.
goodstuff96 - April 28, 2009
What.....
what did Rothschild do for Marquis that was so great?
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
He had some really good starts and ate alot of innings
Last week people were sure upset he is no longer on the team.
goodstuff96 - April 28, 2009
I dont disagree with you at all...
I personally though gettin rid of him was a bad move but i am not in the Cubs organization.
What i am saying is who has Rothechild brought into the MLB and developed to become a strong pitcher?
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
I was saying that he was going to be a bigger loss than most thought
months ago. He was a better pitcher than people give credit, and it is not his fault Hendry pver paid for a #5.
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
My bad
I thought your point was that Duncan was takin Cubs castoffs and making them all-stars.
But I would say Zambrano has done pretty well for himself.
goodstuff96 - April 28, 2009
As has
Marshall. Hill was doing well until his brain got in the way and he lost the strike zone entirely.
gwood - April 28, 2009
No not really my intent...
It is just upsetting that we have not really developed a pitcher, it just seems we go out and buy them all (Minus Zambrano and the verdict is still out on Marshall)
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
I would change the question...
What reclamation projects has Larry R made successes out of? Or which veteransor underachievers has he improved?
Duncan’s list seems endless. Look at last year’s and this year’s current rotation as examples.
Larry R… I’ll give him credit for Dempster. Great job there. And, he got just about the same out of Marquis that Duncan got. He developed Marmol into a dominant arm. Excellent job.
SackMan - April 28, 2009
does Larry get credit for
making Woody a pretty good closer?
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Well... Woody was already a helluva pitcher anyway.
So… how do you judge that?
SackMan - April 28, 2009
I don't know.
All of these guys are skilled — they have to be, to get to the Show to begin with. Anything a pitching coach does is building on what they already have.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
There is just no other
pitching coach out there that seems to be able to maximize a pitcher’s (lack of) talent the way Duncan does.
Nothing against Larry, all the knowledgeable people say he is an excellent pitching coach. He is just at the top of the second tier of coaches while Duncan holds the top tier all to himself.
gwood - April 28, 2009
And sustaining it...
Duncan and TLR have a philosophy/style of baseball they want their players to adhere to.
Duncan takes guys like Wellenmeyer and Lohse and Looper, and gets them to drop their pitching ego and buy into the philosophy. They’ll pitch to their strengths and get ground balls… and let the defense do the work, as opposed to trying to be the stud they think/wish they were.
SackMan - April 28, 2009
i like this statement a lot.
Agree 100%.
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
Very well said.
Their coolers must be filled with kool-aid instead of Gatorade.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
They never seem to have a lot of guys
with dominating stuff.
They just get experienced arms, to pitch to their strengths, and not foolishly challenge good hitters with their “less than stellar” best stuff.
SackMan - April 28, 2009
He's proven time and again
to get the absolute best out of what he’s got. It may not be pretty but it gets the job done.
And it’s frustrating as all hell.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
Case and point for me
has been Kyle Lohse. What Duncan did with him last year was amazing.
gwood - April 28, 2009
And you can't say the same for our coaching staff.
We just buy top talent, and rely more on the talent itself, than overall philosophy and baseball identity.
And, that’s bothered me a lot over the years. We’ve changed regimes so often, that we don’t have a philosophy/identity.
SackMan - April 28, 2009
Was Larry here when Woody came up?
goodstuff96 - April 28, 2009
I beleive he was with Florida.
That was a loooong ass time ago.
SackMan - April 28, 2009
In ancient times, Riggleman walked the earth.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
What about Ryan Dempster?
He resurrected his career with the Cubs.
cowsarecool220 - April 28, 2009
Exactly
I don’t think Larry is the best pitching coach around, but I do think he’s better than average.
Comparing him or anybody else (short of Leo Mazzone, perhaps) to Duncan is foolish.
Not Bruce Froemming - April 28, 2009
I beleive... and correct me if I'm wrong... but
We won more games from the #5 spot with Marquis, than any other team in the NL during his two years here.
Great production.
SackMan - April 28, 2009
Indeed
I thought Marquis was the best No. 5 pitcher in baseball last season. Of course, someone should have pointed out your statistic to the idiots who kept chanting “Marquis sucks!” when the Rockies were at Wrigley earlier this month.
Not Bruce Froemming - April 28, 2009
Duncan being good at what he does...
… does NOT justify us firing anybody on our staff. Unless you have suggestions of who we could replace Rothchild with?
Actually asking, not mocking… i’d love to hear ideas.
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
Greg Maddux.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Actually an intriguing idea...
… any chance you listen to the BS report?
Same idea floated for the Yankees by Bill Simmons today. “Why wouldn’t they just give him 11 million to come teach their guys?”
I know he’s an idiot, but its an entertaining work podcast in an office full of people who get grumpy if i try to bump any tunes…
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
I for one
would love to have Greg Maddux on the roster as the 13th pitcher, even if he never throws a pitch. His influence on the pitcher’s around him is unquestioned.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Mike Harkey.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
Well he sucks this season
The Wellemeyer gig is going to be up soon.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
Well, it hasn't been a great couple of weeks, that's for sure.
But this is baseball and every team goes through that. We just happen to be going through it very early on and, because of it’s occuring so soon, many can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. We’ve had a lot of bad timing already with the injuries and bad playing happening simultaneously.
Look at it like this: we haven’t played at full strength since the first week of the season. And how did that first week go? 4-2 in two packed-house series’ on the road.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
good point....
carmen_fanzone - April 28, 2009
The Cubs have lost 9 games in April.
If they do that every month they will only win 108 games.
Rick B - April 28, 2009
good point...
buuuuttt you do see the flaw in your statement right? I am just saying….
(i am not worried or a jump ship kinda guy so dont take it that way)
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
LOL. Took me a minute.
Mapmaker - April 28, 2009
Umm...
They’ve also only WON 9 games in April. So by that same logic, we’ll finish 54-54 this year, right?
SouthernCub - April 28, 2009
...that's a LOT of rainouts...
carmen_fanzone - April 28, 2009
Followed by September triple-headers.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
I am not anti Derrek Lee but
with neck spasms that date back to 2007 (at least), and his lack of a bat so far, how long do the Cubs continue to hang on him hoping he can rediscover his bat before placing him on the DL which is likely what he needs right now?
Hoff is not a hack playing at 1B defensively, but he has also not been given a true chance to prove he can man it daily at the MLB level. I say give Hoff about 2 weeks to see what he has, and let Lee rest and truly evaluate the amount of damage to the neck (if it is a budging disc, then he needs the time off, think Blanco last season).
None of us should care if he is 47 or 17, as long as he is able to produce, and help the Cubs win now.
I am not saying Hoff is the 1B for the next 10 years either. I am strictly talking about the now. If he has one season, and it happens to be this season, why not take advantage of it, at least until Derrek Lee can return and produce.
PLEASE Do not reply AAAA player, or 29 year old rookie, give some valid reasons.
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
If Lee needs some DL time...
… yes, Hoffpauir appears to be a valid replacement on a temporary basis. At least he can play 1B; he can’t play the outfield.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
I have never once said he is an OF
and nver will. He is an emergency OF at best, and that is still a drastic emergency.
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
Wish Lou would have listened to you.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
I'd be fine with that if Lee needs more time to heal.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
and if Lee does not get his bat going again
by June, then what?
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I think we'll see him getting some days off
and Hoffpauir will be playing. Kevin Kennedy mentioned yesterday that the toughest thing for a manger is handling an aging star (he was talking about David Ortiz) and finding a way to get more at bats for a younger player while not alienating your star.
While I don’t think Lee is there yet, I’m sure if he doesn’t hit, it’ll force Lou (and Jim Hendry) into some tough decisions.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
which is when the contract amounts come into play
often you see an aging star playing more based on contract size as well. sometimes the finances blind the team.
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I don't think Lou will be blinded by this
he seems more performance-oriented than anything else.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
In that circumstance it's not so much blinding as
being handcuffed. I love DLee, but truly hate no trade clauses.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
-NTC
those and back loading of contracts
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
I'm not so concerend with back loaded contracts.
Other guys get old, retire, move on and those contracts remain in line with market as they age (historically, not sure about 2009). Its pairing up that contract with the NTC that cripples a team.
Wow, I guess this therapy the last two days at BCB has me thinking maybe I don’t like Hendry. I thought I did like him, but reviewing my comments on the farm system, outfield and bullpen over the last 40 hours, it sure reads like I don’t like him.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
back loading contracts
can hurt future signings and trades at the deadline, based on the “Set” salary by ownership.
NTC hurts more, but it is a combo that handcuffs IMO
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
back loaded contacts are a major pet peeve of mine
for a variety of reasons. I know I’m living in a dream world, but I would much prefer insentive-loaded contacts as the years of the contact went on.
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
I would much more prefer "non-guaranteed contracts"
SackMan - April 28, 2009
True but with either of our ideas.....
as good as they are the players union would NEVER go for them in a MILLION YEARS. :(
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
BTW...
Jay Cutler’s gonna slice up all your cheese this year:)
SackMan - April 28, 2009
but if an owner
no longer offers them, nothing the Union can do. If all the teams say “we will not offer a NTC” then the players either sign without one, or go unsigned.
same with the over the edge contract sizes.
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
or they can strike
and that would kill baseball.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
owners can agree not to offer a NTC
without saying so publically, right?
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
that's collusion, isn't it?
if they all agreed in private to not offer any NTCs, that’s basically price-fixing, and it’s illegal.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
As long as there are the Yankees or Red Sox...
the owners will NEVER be unified enough to attempt something like that. I also find it somewhat humorous that the owners are the only entities we think of when we mention collusion in baseball. The union has done more collusion in the past 25 years than the owners could ever hope to do.
santoswoodenlegs - April 28, 2009
the whole point of a union
is to be able to bargain collectively. When the members of a union say “we won’t accept less than X” that’s not collusion, that’s the union doing what the union is supposed to do. Collusion is when the owners secretly plan to do something the union would oppose if it were public. It’s to protect the worker.
I recognize that the MLB Players’ Union isn’t a traditional union as such.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Or scream collusion
gwood - April 28, 2009
+6
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
especially if the packers store all the cheese
in a night club.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Cubbie_Tim
I then must apologize. From the comments of yours, I took it to mean that you thought he had potential to be a big star and that the Cubs just weren’t giving him a proper chance to see that.
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
I do not care about next year
until next year. If a player can contribute this season, that is what I look for.
And no prob, we have all misunderstood a post before, it happens.
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
Meanwhile,
I bypassed last night’s debacle for the Blackhawks. That’s why I’m in a good mood. Many more of you should have joined me…
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - April 28, 2009
I was posting Hawk updates here
and loved the Game. Bring on Vancouver
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
Bring em on but man...
Luango is tough….
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
gonna be a hell of a series
Vancouver may be the hottest team in the NHL right now. They swept a good St Louis team.
Khab will need to stand on his head again to move on IMO
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
Khabby is big time...
I was at the game on Saturday, that was extremely fun!
Everyone wanted Khabby gone at the beginning of the year, but last time he was in a contract season he won a stanley cup. How about 2?!!!
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
and to think Hawks tried to move him
now they have to try to resign him IMO
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
totally agree.
HIGGY - April 28, 2009
It was awesome
and Burish scored a goal too. :D
sue369 - April 28, 2009
The FanPost problem from my POV:
Obviously I’ve been a bit annoyed with the message board aspect of BCB recently, so I figure I’ll share my opinion on what the problem is. I wish I had a solution, but I don’t know what can be done short of moderation.
First of all, posts like this one by Al and the FanPost/Shot posting guidelines are great – if new members actually read them. In a few days, this post will be pushed down far enough on the page that most new members will never even see it. That’s just the nature of the beast – game recaps, previews, first pitch threads, book reviews, etc… all of these things will make sure that this post will be barely visible in a few days time. That’s not something Al can control really, but I do think it’s part of the problem.
I don’t know what it’s like when a new member signs up because it’s been a while since I joined, but I know some sites have member agreements that each new member is supposed to read and then check off a box saying they agree. Maybe having a part about FanPosts in a member agreement would be helpful? That way people couldn’t play dumb and say they never saw anything about it. Just a thought.
Perhaps the biggest issue though is the regulars vs. newcomers battle. This isn’t the first time stuff like this has happened here (I won’t go into details because I’m sure Al doesn’t want to rehash old drama, but a lot of ‘regulars’ left here a while ago because of a similar feud – at least I think it was similar, is a long time ago.) Basically what it boils down to is that the so-called regulars have to be a bit more welcoming of new posters. Just because you’ve been here a long time or post here incessantly does not make you or your opinion any more or less important/valid than anyone else. Seniority means absolutely squat on a blog.
This isn’t directed at any one person, but I think some patience on the part of the ‘regulars’ would go a long way in easing the readability of the site. Now obviously some posts are such garbage that no amount of patience could make them tolerable, so in those times I propose just ignoring. A new poster will fade him/herself out if their inane posts get no replies. I know it can be really tempting to have a smartass reply to a dumb post, but just let it go. It’s just like dealing with trolls: don’t feed them. I’ve been guilty of commenting on dumb posts myself, but I’m trying to make an effort to just ignore them like they don’t exist.
One final suggestion, use the rec system! If you enjoy reading a FanPost/FanShot or even a comment, rec it! I think BCB is behind the curve when it comes to using recs. It’s a great way to filter out the good stuff from the junk, it keeps good FanPosts/Shots around for a longer time, and it makes insightful comments stand out from the crowd. A comment or Post doesn’t have to be groundbreaking/award-winning to get rec’d. If you like something, a few clicks will go a long way in making sure other people see what you thought was so interesting.
Sorry for the length, new things just kept popping up in my head.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
Very good point about
the rec’s they could be very beneficially used. A question though (not so much for you as anyone that knows):
Is there a way to increase the number of rec’d FanPosts/Fanshots that show up on our sidebar?
gwood - April 28, 2009
Another suggestion...
… from the programming side of the site, at least for fanposts, maybe something could be incorporated that, before you finally publish your fanposts, pops up on your screen with one last warning / plea for civility.
Probably wouldn’t work for game threads, as the volume of replies would preclude an extra step…
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
if we could use it to cut down on the number of FanPosts
it might be enough.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
To be honest, the volume isn't a problem for me...
… but i’m also fortunate in my work to have a decent amount of down time.
I’d be fine with the current volume of fanposts, or even MORE, if they had some sort of value. I’d like to see a more stringent reminder of what they are for NOT to cut down in general, but to cut down in the garbage.
I suspect a lot of what is posted there is reactionary and not well thought out… perhaps after you hit post, it sits on the server for 30 minutes and then SBN fires you an email with the content you write, asking you to confirm the post but first asking you to make sure it adheres to the rules of Fanposts?
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
This is an interesting idea.
Maybe I’ll send it along to SBN.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Thanks Al...
… and i don’t mean to get all up in your business on how to run this thing. Heck, its already my second most visited site, so you are clearly doing a dandy job as is… hopefully its not interpreted taht way
I did a lot of freelance web design for a few years before my current job, which still allows me to spend a lot of time thinking about online communities, and how to shape and work them to my advantage. I’ve also been at the helm of a blog or two that gotten rowdy, often due to the passion of the readers more than their collective ignorance. Everybody gets excited, and while there are exceptions, for the most part people participate in that community because they WISH to contribute something to it. The internet is an easy place to lash out, and a few positive reinforcement “speed bumps” seem to discourage that better than banning and / or warnings.
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
Well stated.
Thanks for your well-thought-out posts in this thread.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
Interesting discussion.
It would slow the flame wars, but would certainly take away the positives of the game threads and limit the real time dialogue that makes this site so great.
N Oakley - April 29, 2009
I have a nitpicking observation...
How come when people say “+1” in response to a post, everyone jumps on them and says "USE THE REC!’ “WHY DON’t YOU JUST REC IT,” etc, etc…
But THEN, whenever someone rec’s something, they also reply to the post and say “rec”….seems like the same thing to me as saying “+1”
PurpleLineToWrigley - April 28, 2009
To be fair...
you can’t really tell who has rec’d a post unless they reply and tell you they have.
santoswoodenlegs - April 28, 2009
Right. But do you NEED to know who rec'd a post?
PurpleLineToWrigley - April 28, 2009
No, but it's nice to know.
daver - April 28, 2009
Agreed.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
Well the difference between saying "rec'd" and actually reccing (that does not even look close to a word)
a comment is that actual rec’s will make the comment go green – hence, stand out. With FanPosts/Shots, actually reccing a post will make it move into the Recommended Section – meaning it will stick around longer, be read by more people, and stand out compared to the junk that no one wants to read. Just saying +1 to a FanPost is kinda pointless if you don’t actually rec it. At least that’s what I think.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
+1 is the dumbest thing ever.
You agree with something, awesome. Can you really not come up with anything more intelligent to say to communicate that than “plus one?”
And is it even really necessary to say “I agree” to begin with if that’s ALL you’re going to say?
kanderber - April 28, 2009
+ agree
santoswoodenlegs - April 28, 2009
I am probably not alone
in feeling that if I say something substantive and people agree with me, I would like to know that people agree with me. I would also like to know who agrees with me, so posting “+1” or “rec’d” below the post is encouraging.
gwood - April 28, 2009
+1
:-)
zevkalman - April 28, 2009
I would go with +English Lady
personally
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
I concur.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
Again, sometimes it's nice to know others support a statement you've made.
Granted, it does get repetitive, but imagine if we were all sitting around a bar talking about the Cubs. I’m sure there would be repeated instances of people saying stuff like, “Yeah, totally.” and “I agree.” and “Definitely!” It’s a natural part of conversation and – again – nice to hear (or in this case “see”) sometimes.
daver - April 28, 2009
Right.
Same goes for “lol” or its various aka’s. If I make you laugh let me know about it!
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
define "necessary"
a lot of what we say in game threads, for example, is banter back and forth, that has almost nothing to do with the game.
If we were all in a big room in person, you wouldn’t even notice half of it.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
That would be awful though.
Turning your head every four seconds to acknowledge something was said, even if you only listen to half of it.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
wha?
wha?
wha?
wha?
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Think of the bulging
neck discs. Maybe this is Lee’s problem, he tries to listen to too many conversations at one.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Well played, good sir!
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
The banter back and forth and nothing to do with the game
is sometimes the most humorous. I’ve gotten some good laughs here at work reading some of the back and forth comments. And of course, some of the pictures are just hilarious.
I don’t comment or post to often here but I am here quite a bit just reading what everyone has to say. I do get bothered by some of the negativity but I tolerate it because there is more good here than bad.
tucsoncubsfan - April 28, 2009
-1
I don’t agree with your statement.
sue369 - April 28, 2009
+1
graceunderpressure - April 28, 2009
I had too, plus I don't even know what rec means?
graceunderpressure - April 28, 2009
Recommend.
Click on ‘actions’ under a comment, and Rec is there. Or at the end of a FanPost/Shot there’s a link for it as well.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
I wonder if we could cut a deal with Arizona
Cubs get a 1-2 record from the Chase Field series and they don’t even play the games. This way the Cubs get the outcome that will happen almost every time, and we don’t have to watch that awful stadium.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
have I mentioned
that I hate that stadium?
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
When I was there, there were not any beer vendors in the upper deck.
PurpleLineToWrigley - April 28, 2009
How do they expect you to drown out the awful sound effects?
nji232 - April 28, 2009
do the cans pop
from the lack of air pressure?
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Git 'er done, Jimbo!
daver - April 28, 2009
Can we trade
Lee for a 1-2 record from Chase Field :D. That way we don’t have to try and send him to AAA.
BTW sarcasm
gwood - April 28, 2009
My two cents (for anyone who cares)
I don’t mind a 9-9 start (i would love a 12-6 start) but I’m not losing sleep. I have been following baseball for 25 years and many here for much longer, so we all know that april is April and as long as you don’t start 2-15 you are relatively ok. For God sakes Joel Pinerio is 4-0 and the fighting fish started 11-1 to go on to lose 7 straight. It is April (oh please don’t let the Piniero and Marlins think come back to haunt me). What does bother me is the lack of competiveness about this team at times. Injuries or no injuries, I hate that feeling that we all know (playoffs in 07, playoffs in 0-8, and the last week) where this team makes no adjustments, games are over after two innings (you can tell, you don’t even have to watch). Our pitchers know the margin for error is slim and the minute runs are on the board it is over. Even though it is April I will tell you that I have watched almost every Cardinal game this year (because I’m sick) and I can tell you how many games this team played where they didn’t compete and have a chance to win. ONE TIME, Sunday afternoon against the Cubs was the only game they have played where they weren’t in a position to win. I’m just saying that our Cubs at times totally lose the ability to compete, adjust, pick it up a notch, etc however you want to say it. We all know how it feels, and last night was the perfect example. And it is not just because we are missing our entire meat of the order. We were healthy last year in the playoffs and the year before. You all know what I speak of and it is an intangible ability to win when you aren’t at your best. Two cents cashed.
graceunderpressure - April 28, 2009
Friendly advice:
If you’re going to write a lengthy post, use a couple of paragraph breaks. It’s much easier to read, more people will read it, and you’ll get more responses.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
you are right, I could improve the way I said what I said, but.....
what I said was true
graceunderpressure - April 28, 2009
Excellent post!!
I get the same feeling about the lack of competitiveness at times. I too, have seen a lot of the Cardinal games and see that they always compete and take advantage of the other teams’ lack of fundamentals(ie. Pujols stealing 2nd on sleeping Marmol and costing us the game).
Itchy - April 28, 2009
well, would love to keep chatting
but I am off to play human tampon (weeee, what fun an MRI can be).
take care all, chat later tonight
GO CUBS!!!!!
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
best of luck, man
zevkalman - April 28, 2009
Human tampon?
Not a visual image I needed right now, thanks :P
gwood - April 28, 2009
Yeahhhh...looks like I'll be putting off lunch for a couple more hours.
daver - April 28, 2009
Then spread your wings and fly.
Oh, I shouldn’t have said that…
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
lol
nice one
gwood - April 28, 2009
good luck
Now they have the open ones, they still are suck but at least I think it’s not as bad.
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
Are you referring to MRI?
I hope.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
I don't wanna know.
daver - April 28, 2009
open ones work well
but the closed ones get the best scan results. I asked for open, adn was denied
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
OT: Listening to The Score right now...
Dan Hampton is BRUTAL…Dear lord…
PurpleLineToWrigley - April 28, 2009
yeah he isn't good
Its a shame bc his partner is really good, but when Hampton tries to talk it just annoys me. Also he can’t say Zambrano.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
Yeah, I like Laurence Holmes.
But I agree. So annoying.
PurpleLineToWrigley - April 28, 2009
I like Hampton a lot
Holmes seems to love to be inflammatory. The morning guys are great.
ol Pete - April 28, 2009
The is a problem with your comment
you said “listening to the Score right now”. That’s were you went wrong. :P.
Dan Hampton has been beaten in the head far too often (between football and wrestling) to be able to be anything other than brutal, IMO.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Haha, good point :)
PurpleLineToWrigley - April 28, 2009
Jampton didnt wrestle
that is Steve McMichael you are thinking of
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
Thank you
you’re right
gwood - April 28, 2009
LerxstCub is 100% Right
So far in this thread, the predominant theme from supposed “regulars” or “old timers” is that the “newcomers” are too negative — they go into game threads and post over and over again about how terrible the team is. Well, thats not completely honest. I’ve never said anything of the kind, and I’ve gotten the exact same hostility from “veterans”. The two fanposts I’ve authored that were decried as inciteful or flaming essentially said “give the kid a chance.” This too was deemed wearisome or offensive by the old timers and regulars.
I think the problem here is that you want to hear from Al and about 10 other people. When someone comes along with a different POV, you don’t want to hear it, and the fact that it was posted is a problem you feel merits endless handwringing and agonizing about how to end the problem.
Here’s an idea: form a private club if you want that, but until then realize you are in a public forum and live with it. When you dont control content, you have to expect content you disagree with, maybe even most of the time. I’d say its fair to expect that maybe 15% of the fanposts will be agreeable to you, and maybe 2% or less of the comments will be. You can change that by getting together on a secure site, with passwords, and exchanging all the insular opinions you want with one another. But until then, realize there are a lot of people on this site who have different POVs, and turn the other way if you don’t like reading them.
Either way, this endless handwringing/whining about the fan post “problem” and how to fix it, is itself BCB’s biggest problem.
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
you seem to be mistaken about the nature of the site.
it IS private. It’s privately owned, by Al. He chooses to allow it to be accessed relatively publicly.
We’re happy to hear from people with a different POV, if they can support their assertions. That’s usually the problem — they can’t, and Soriano ends up being “mentally weak”, and Bradley is “a problem”.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
No, its not.
Whatever the ownership structure, he’s syndicated it through SBN and (as he repeatedly says) licensed a deal through Yahoo that brings in many more people. Its not your private club if anyone off the street can come in and join. Thats the definition of a public forum. If Al wants to keep other users out, he has the tools for doing so. Until then, accept that hundreds of people who aren’t your beloved old-timer regulars have the right to come here and post.
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
"right"
you don’t seem to understand what that word means. There is no “right” to post on BCB. Posting here is a privilege.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
As I said, this attitude is the problem
Glad you’ve confirmed it for me.
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
it's not my fault
that you don’t understand the words that you’re typing.
There is no “right” to post on BCB. The first amendment does not apply here.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
What are you, a lawyer?
Not a very good one if you think the sole meaning of the word “right” in the sentence “hundreds of people . . . have the right to come here and post” is a constituitional liberty interest, as opposed to an action permitted by the rules of the site. BCB and SBN allow people to come off the street and post here subject to restrictions on profanity, etc. Its not a “i can take you to court for trampling on my liberties” kind of right if its taken away. But its a right all the same.
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
no.
it’s not.
Words have meaning.
People have the ability to register here easily. SBN and Al give them the privilege of posting here.
But it is not a right.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Just ask bluemike.
cubswynn - April 28, 2009
Al seems to have a blind spot with BM.
and at least Blue Mike sometimes has something to say. Not often. But sometimes.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
In your opinion
Blue Mike frequently posts interesting stuff here. He gets repetitive, but whatever. I appreciate his posts, and I know many others here do too.
I don’t understand why you frequently harass him. He never responds to you because there’s no winning. As soon as his name pops up, it’s just a matter of time before finding the drew post that rips him.
If one poster singled me out and constantly ripped on my posts, I’d probably tell him to pound sand as well.
dr stabbingworth - April 28, 2009
you got it part right.
Blue Mike frequently posts
He has been saying, essentially, the same thing for at least two and a half years.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
He's a Johnny One-Note
over and over and over again. And always, unceasingly negative, even if the facts on the ground do not warrant it.
Not Bruce Froemming - April 28, 2009
Bangs head against the Wall
Really? Words have meaning. Look up “Right” in a law dictionary and you’ll find about 50 entries, only a handful of which are the kind of right you are describing. The “Right” to post on BCB is not a fundamental right, not an inalienable right, certainly not a constitutional right … but it is a right of usage conferred by the rules and the organizers of the site.
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
the word you're looking for
is privilege.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
No, again, its not, look it up.
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
I have
words have meaning. Use them properly.
I will allow you to get in the last comment, to preserve your feeling of victory.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Drew just a quite thought
You know I think you rock….. I’ve known you for what 2 years? We’ve agreed on lots of stuff and you’ve made me laugh many a time
But IMHO condensending to him (even if he deserves it) isn’t showing the board how knowable of a fan you really are.
Let a person like him who wants to be difficult show his true colors and then let Al deal with him. Won’t that maybe be simpler?
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
I'm a big fan of the phrase
“you reap what you sow”. I give every poster a chance. I have my buttons, tho, and he’s hit them.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Wow
you really think your above some of the other posters here don’t you?
tizzle - April 28, 2009
Wow
you’re the king of putting words into people’s mouths aren’t you?
santoswoodenlegs - April 28, 2009
I’m hungry.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
Your #4 with sprouts will be arriving shortly...
Jimmyeatworld - April 28, 2009
Are you thinking of
Erbert and Gerbert’s or Jimmy Johns?
gwood - April 28, 2009
I cheated.
$5 footlong for me today.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
are you a Chuck fan?
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
not sure who you are asking at this point,
but I never miss an episode
gwood - April 28, 2009
there's some kind of
Subway Footlong campaign thingy to keep Chuck on the air by buying meatball subs. Somehow.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Is there a threat of chuck
leaving?
gwood - April 28, 2009
being cancelled
apparently.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Not really. But I did work at Best Buy for 6 years during high school/undergrad.
But I do prefer Jimmy John’s over Subway.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
well
of course!
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
I
call it like I see it.
tizzle - April 28, 2009
nope
I know for a fact that I don’t know as much about baseball as some of the other people here. Cwyers, Josh77, dtpollitt, Daver come to mind. Nor do I have the longevity as a fan that others do — ten years, as opposed to the lifedtimes of Al, Sue, etc.
but I’m also someone who understands the english language very well. Poorly written, unsupported comments are highly annoying.
I fully admit — Orval pushes some of my buttons. That’s my fault to bear. But that doesn’t make him any less wrong on the nature of this site.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Thanks for including me...
…but I think I’d lose that Jeopardy match.
daver - April 28, 2009
Famous Davers for $200, Alex
ballhawk - April 28, 2009
You have understandings of the innerworkings of
a Brewers’ baseball club. That’s valuable insight.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
lol
he has another game today, and it looks like the weather will hold out for it. I even cleared the SD card in the camera so I can take real pictures.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
“And the Brewers fall a half game back…”
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
Maybe I should post a pre-game thread. :P
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
English should be capitalized
Orval actually supported his comment and you simply declared yourself correct.
ol Pete - April 28, 2009
you may feel free to believe that
as much as you believe anything else that isn’t true, and as a Brewers fan, I presume that’s a lot.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
I think this is where the train gets derailed.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
im not trying to push anyone's buttons
but you’ve basically confirmed (along with Madison) everything I was saying. There’s a circle of about ten of you who seem to think the only legitimate views are ones expressed by yourself, Al, or the other 10 regulars. Anyone else posting is abusing a “privilege” and think Al should “deal with him [or her]”
That, in a nutshell, is 90% of whats wrong with this site.
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
well, it's not my fault
that you can’t read what other people are saying. Your assessment could not be further from the truth. Having said that, however, why are you still here, then?
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
because in most posts
the other people have something interesting to say. Which is why i imagine they are here as well. Sorry it offends you so much, but as I said, you can always form a private club elsewhere.
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
you can take your faux outrage
and get stuffed. This is just like how Lou goes out to Neil Cotts and says “just throw strikes.”
MAKE GOOD POSTS. Even Shanghai, Daver and I don’t agree on everything all the time, and Blue Mike thinks we’re SOCKPUPPETS of each-other, for pete’s sake.
Make good posts. Support your assertions. Respond to comments on your ideas with facts, not profanity. If that Sean character had said “Soriano’s Body Language When He Strikes Out Indicates That He’s Unhappy Batting Third”, and then included some pictures or video, that could have been an AWESOME post, and while I likely wouldn’t have agreed, that post wouldn’t nearly have gotten the reaction that it did.
And make sure that the words you use mean what they do, as opposed to hoping that they mean what you want them to.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
You're right
Nothing to see here, move along, move along. Its not that we have a problem with other people contributing to our party, its that they dont do it as well as we do.
Now that its been settled, I’ll be sure to ask the hundreds of people who dont meet your standards to do a better job.
Or not to post at all, because isn’t that really the point?
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
no, it's not the point at all...
and I’m at a loss as to why you’re having so much trouble figuring “the point” out.
santoswoodenlegs - April 28, 2009
argh
no. Just put a little THOUGHT into it.
Cripes. Put the chip on your shoulder down. You know, your Micah Hoffpauir post was EXACTLY the sort of thing I was talking about above. I still disagreed with it, but you used reason, and facts, and everything.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
So let's get rid of those 10 and everything will get fixed!
Send the list to Al and ask him to ban them….or just make a fanpost and we can discuss how best to deal with this unruly group of users.
santoswoodenlegs - April 28, 2009
Wait! Can I get to 25,000 comments first!
daver - April 28, 2009
DFA! DFA!
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
brava!
ol Pete - April 28, 2009
That's patently ridiculous.
daver - April 28, 2009
Here's one
.
contaminate |kənˈtaməˌnāt| verb [ trans. ]
make (something) impure by exposure to or addition of a poisonous or polluting substance
ol Pete - April 28, 2009
congratulations
you can use a dictionary.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
its an excellent habit
highly recommended
ol Pete - April 28, 2009
And I've never said
anything bad about Soriano or Bradley. The criticism I’ve made is that you regulars are too stubborn to consider the value of players you dont know from watching them on Sportscenter, like Soto or Hoffpauir.
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
The criticism I’ve made is that you regulars are too stubborn to consider the value of players you dont know from watching them on Sportscenter, like Soto or Hoffpauir.
I don’t even know what this means. Who undervalues Soto?
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
he thinks Soto is over valued
Madison Cub Fan - April 28, 2009
alright.
I guess.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
No, no, that isnt it either
The Soto reference was to the quotes in here: http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/3/22/806730/soto-might-become-a-decen
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
ah, yes.
belligerence towards the owner of the site is always going to get you points. o.0
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
it wasnt belligerent
it was critical. And criticism of the regulars here is to be met with swift rebukes and righteous indignation, as we’ve been demonstrating over and over today. And thats the problem,
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
this is another definition thing
As I said above, your post was a pretty good example of the kind of post that Al and the rest of us “regulars” would love to see.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Didn't we already have this conversation?
santoswoodenlegs - April 28, 2009
yes
and he got spanked in it, too.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
by the gang of 10?
santoswoodenlegs - April 28, 2009
I think I've seen
a movie about that . . .
gwood - April 28, 2009
Honestly, that Fanpost was so convoluted...
…I couldn’t get through it.
daver - April 28, 2009
I'll have to disagree about this site being private
It’s part of a very large blog network that is featured across the internet. This is a very public place.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
it's widely available
But when your ability to post here can be revoked, it's not public.drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
The only people who get banned from here are those who come to troll
and they want to be banned, and Blue Mike’s personality of the week. I maintain that this site is very much public, if it weren’t it would take more than a mouse click to join.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
it's a semantic difference
I agree. But I’m the kind of guy who gets annoyed when online-only communities get a .com address instead of a .net address.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Drew, how can anyone ever support a gut feeling they have about a player
how can disprove Soriano as “mentally weak” and Braley as “a problem”. It is an opinion (one that could be argued) Why is an opinion wrong?
graceunderpressure - April 28, 2009
wong is a funny word
I’m not suggesting that people shouldn’t post that Soriano is mentally weak. I suggest that they shouldn’t complain about it when they do and then they get walloped for it.
Soriano took a fastball to the back of the head, stood up, shook it off, and went on to double, single, steal a base, and make several running catches in left in that game. How can you look at that and call him mentally weak because Lou chooses to bat him lead-off?
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Honestly, I don't think someone should be posting opinions they can't support.
This leads us back to why BCB is not a message board.
daver - April 28, 2009
I'm just saying that you can't support a gut feeling about a player with 100% confidence
graceunderpressure - April 28, 2009
Yeah, certainly not.
So the responsible thing to do is preface opinions like that with “Hey, this is just a gut feeling and I could be wrong but…”
And, for God’s sake, don’t waste a Fanpost writing about it.
daver - April 28, 2009
agreed
graceunderpressure - April 28, 2009
Why?
90% of what is here is opinion. Mentally I add “in my opinion” to every post I read. If someone supports their opinion is what really matters.
dr stabbingworth - April 28, 2009
You seem to be agreeing and disagreeing with me at the same time.
What I’m saying is: Don’t post an opinion unless you’re prepared to support it. And, for God’s sake, don’t waste a Fanpost on an unsupportable opinion.
daver - April 28, 2009
Fair enough
The pace of the game threads doesn’t allow for reasoned discussion. It plays into a quick, emotional reaction, with little thought. Which is why I mostly skip the game threads. I’ll spare the board my negativity (my cat and tv are screwed though).
dr stabbingworth - April 28, 2009
it takes more thought to write
“Soriano Ks, he sucks donkey balls”
then
“Soriano Ks, darnit”.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Is there no such thing as self-control?
Do you have to post every thought, however fleeting, that rolls through your head?
Do I get pissed off when Soriano strikes out with the bases loaded? Sure. But I also don’t get on here and say “Why the hell did we waste $136 million on him? He sucks,” or something equally as brilliant.
Not Bruce Froemming - April 28, 2009
well
I tend to do play by play, so I post “Soriano Ks” more often than other people. :P
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Oh, well, yeah.
I was speaking generally – not specifically aobut game threads. As I’ve said before, game threads are essentially “the virtual bleachers.” Just people hangin’ out, sharing the game experience. No one is necessarily expecting 700-word doctrines on the secret of baseball. Nonetheless, if you state an opinion – even in the game thread – you should still be prepared to support it.
daver - April 28, 2009
Please support that opinion
“If you state an opinion – even in the game thread – you should still be prepared to support it.” Ok, start now. Why?
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
I sense a fact or statistic on the horizon...
…hold on, lemme open up BR and FG.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
because it leads
to better discussion.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
I prefer it when met with disagreement if you
declare BCB segregated between new and old posters.
Just makes discussions happier.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Because
ballhawk - April 28, 2009
A classic!
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
eh, I don't know about 'classic'...
…but sometimes arguing the negative is a much easier way to make your point.
ballhawk - April 28, 2009
Looks like Fanpost material to me!
daver - April 28, 2009
Because I'm
your mother and I say so.
sue369 - April 28, 2009
if I had a nickel
for every time I’ve said that…
wait, what?
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Well, Orval...
…because this is a “Web site” on which “human beings” communicate electronically to discuss a baseball team called “The Chicago Cubs.” If you state an opinion, you should do so with the inherent knowledge that said human beings (again, that us) are going to read your opinion and react to it positively or negatively. Therefore, you should be prepared to support your opinion to facilitate something known in layman’s terms as “discussion.” This “discussion” I refer to is the primary purpose of this “Web site.”
daver - April 28, 2009
thats a pretty good answer
+1
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
Well thanks.
I show up to play!
daver - April 28, 2009
That's understandable
In the case of the “Soriano Is Mentally Weak” post, there was no evidence for it at the time (unless you count a 1-for-8 performance as the No. 3 hitter). The guy had just helped the Cubs trounce the Cards after getting hit in the head. If anything, it was an example in mental toughness.
Now, if the guy is pulling himself from the lineup with minor dings and bruises, then sure, I can understand the post. But I think all any of us ask for around here is some thought to put into posts.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
Not to mention...
…his public statement saying he’d like to only take one day off a month.
cubswynn - April 28, 2009
It has nothing to do with "agreeability."
It has to do with quality. And frankly, many postings lately have lacked any type of structure, articulation, and support.
PurpleLineToWrigley - April 28, 2009
welcome to BleedCubbieBlue
a Chicago Cubs Blog and Writing Tutorial
graceunderpressure - April 28, 2009
I just don't see
how this is worth anyone’s time. I mean, it’s aggravating to have the GOOD FanPosts pushed down for stuff like that.
I’m not saying you need to be a Pulitzer prize winner. But that post is an insult to the people who actually make well-thought out posts that contribute to the quality of the community.
PurpleLineToWrigley - April 28, 2009
I know what you are saying, but
in defense they titled the post as a “rant” and then ranted on. Sure there were misspellings, I will probably misspell something in this comment. The rants points were at least argueable. I don’t know, I think it does come down to regulars vs. non regulars sometimes. I have been both at times and I guess maybe I can be a little objective about that.
graceunderpressure - April 28, 2009
Well...
That’s why I’m a big advocate of reccing good posts. That’s the only way to keep them away from the clutter and junk.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
Again, I don't come here to ignore.
I come here to participate. If you make a statement I disagree with, I’m going to let you know about it. (Maybe. If I feel up to it.)
Here’s a question for you, Orval: What keeps you coming back? You “signed off” the site a few weeks ago. Issued your goodbye and everything. Why stick around?
daver - April 28, 2009
because I just like you so darn much
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
You, too?
Man, I’ve got quite the fan club goin’ here. You guys know I’m on Twitter, right?
daver - April 28, 2009
Game threads are Twitter without rational thought
I like to get my insanity from the purest source.
dr stabbingworth - April 28, 2009
Ashton Kutcher, Oprah...
I’m not sure how much rational thought is on Twitter either. But I am trying.
daver - April 28, 2009
Twitter is the death of civilization.
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
You sure that's not the Swine Flu?
daver - April 28, 2009
Old man alert!
You probably said the same thing about computers, and then the Internet.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
damn kids!
get offa my bulletin board!
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Lets take a moment to laugh at the Cardinals fans
This one is upset about Busch Stadium not selling his favorite beer- Busch.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
Haha. That's great.
PurpleLineToWrigley - April 28, 2009
Wait, someone's favorite beer is Busch?
Cardinal fans…
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
Correction...
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
Correction...
Someone not in college lists their favorite beer as Busch?
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
Amazing innit?
Some of us don’t drink beer with the express intent of vomiting out a second-story window and waking up with “BONOR” on their forehead.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
Best 'college' beer is undoubtedly Natty Light.
So cheap, very tolerable. Perfect for beer pong.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
Gross.
Bud Select was my pound ’em choice.
Now I’m pretty much Guinness and Heineken.
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
That's quite a range
gwood - April 28, 2009
+1 on Bud Select...
… about the only way i could tolerable juggle wanting to be both drunk and healthy (at least as healthy as you can manage while wanting to participate in college shenanigans) in college.
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
I would concur
Natty Light and Keystone Light were usually the cheap beers of choice; though they refused to sell those in kegs in the Boston area, which meant we had a lot of Bud Light kegs parties.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
Just stay away from
Natty Ice, bought that by mistake once. Not nearly as easy to drink as Natty Light.
gwood - April 28, 2009
We did it once as a prank
and it met with terrible results.
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
Ice beers are always rough, obviously they taste worse and have more alcohol.
If you really want a rough night, drink Mountain Creek. I don’t know how widely available it is, but here in Madison you can get a 24 pack for like 8 bucks. We did a power hour with it once (I will confess to only doing 2 power hours in my life, I think they’re a waste of time and frankly, kinda girly), but only a few people could make it all the way through. That stuff is absolutely disgusting.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
MOUNTAIN CREEK!
“The beer that doesn’t come in a case, it comes in a tray!”
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
Hahaha yup. Good 'ol Creek.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
I did a lot of power hours in college
and avoided the girly-ness of them by using a glass that was slightly bigger than a shot glass, usually a rocks glass or something similar. Otherwise all you are doing is drinking 3.5 beers in an hour, and that just wasn’t worth it.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Every good night starts with a power 80-90 minutes
I’ve always said
nji232 - April 28, 2009
Mizzou's mission statement, one of the best.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
The second part of the mission statement is
Get drunk and then inform the harmless Cubs fan why he should just give up watching baseball because the Cubs are pathetic.
Which is why the Cubs should try winning more.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
Natty light is good for pounding down beer
Even tho I am a college student, I prefer InBev Light as my lowest quality beer.
nji232 - April 28, 2009
Agreed
Bud Lite is total crap!! Bud is tolerable, hell, even Busch Lite is tolerable. Bud Lite is the worst.
Itchy - April 28, 2009
Youa re right about that
Natty Light is easy to drink quickly making it perfect for beer pong and tippy cup
gwood - April 28, 2009
bleah.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Bradley will be back tonight?
Damn, that sucks. $5 says he’ll get 1-2 at bats before he’s hurt. Any bettors?
Cubs and Hawks fan - April 28, 2009
Good fanpost topic....make one.
santoswoodenlegs - April 28, 2009
Well, isn't this the appropriate way to be a hater?
Write a comment on an existing thread instead of actually writing a FanPost about it? I know you were being sarcastic, but the jokes about bad FanPosts are starting to run their course I think.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
Let's start arguing about the fact that Bradley has 1 hit in 24 ABs so far this year.
Should we DFA him?
zevkalman - April 28, 2009
But of course
Doesn’t every team do that? :)
Not Bruce Froemming - April 28, 2009
You bettor, you bettor, you bet.
daver - April 28, 2009
You nevah!!
neverAcquiesce - April 28, 2009
Damnit, now I gotta go listen to that song on YouTube.
daver - April 28, 2009
sometimes
serving as an example of what not to do is enough.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
I hope we win tonight.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
so say we all.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
So say we all!
daver - April 28, 2009
I just hope the White Sox lose.
santoswoodenlegs - April 28, 2009
I'd rather the Cardinals lose and the Cubs win.
cowsarecool220 - April 28, 2009
indeed.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Ssssshhh!!!
Crawdad is here!
daver - April 28, 2009
Does Crawdad tweet?
zevkalman - April 28, 2009
Not that I'm aware of.
daver - April 28, 2009
I would imagine
he makes a bit of a clicking noise
gwood - April 28, 2009
lol
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
ha
sue369 - April 28, 2009
That would be great
Itchy - April 28, 2009
Me too Dan.
Me too.
sue369 - April 28, 2009
For the record:
I do appreciate constructive criticism and feedback in my professional and personal life, and if I’m being a jerk on BCB, I am more than fine with someone telling me so. It’s hard to interpret emotion on a blog, but feel free to say so if I’m being rude.
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
You're a chair-stealing jerk.
Happy?
Schwa - April 28, 2009
chair stealing?
look, just because he’s stolen chairs in the past from other boards doesn’t mean he’ll steal chairs on this one!
:P :P :P :P :P
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
seeing as how I'll be going to The Dead show next week, let me just say after reading through all this...
…what a lonnnnnnng strange post it’s been…
ballhawk - April 28, 2009
593 posts and it's
still 5 hours til the game.
sue369 - April 28, 2009
I'll have an overflow for the Brewers/Red-Sox
game up in a bit. :P
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Varitek shift!!
dtpollitt - April 28, 2009
This genuinely made me LOL today at work:
I love the Onion
Schwa - April 28, 2009
Just Relax.
Sorry but the administrators of this site have to chill. When you open your site to be engaged by…the entire world, you don’t get to decide what it is, what it isn’t, what it should be used for. “We” do. You don’t like what people are saying, what people are using it for? Change the moderation settings, disable comments, take the site down…but enough with these wrist slaps every time there’s a post you don’t like. welcome to the internet.
SVcubbie - April 28, 2009
We, the administrators, are formulating a reply and will get back to you shortly.
We appreciate your feedback.
daver - April 28, 2009
thanks.
no need for a direct response. just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. pithy is it may have seemed, i do enjoy this site. thanks.
SVcubbie - April 28, 2009
Your comment is important to us. Please stay on the line.
Please note that your call may be monitored for quality control.
zevkalman - April 28, 2009
Want to get more out of Bleed Cubbie Blue?
Log on to our website and doubleyou doubleyou doubleyou, b-l-e-e-d-c-u-b-b-i-e-b-l-u-e dot com. Be sure to read Al’s introductory post, and welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue.
All of our customer service representatives are busy at this time. Please hold on, and your call will be answered in the order it was received.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
[return to Muzak version of “Go Cubs Go”]
Bill Potter - April 28, 2009
If you would like to complain about Milton Bradley, press one.
If you want to move Lee down in the order, press two.
If you think Soriano is a big whiney baby-butt, press three.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Fire Lou? I'm sorry that option is not available at this time.
Please choose another option or stay on the line. Our customer service representatives will be with you shortly.
zevkalman - April 28, 2009
If you think the Neal Cotts
is the devil, well, welcome to the club.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
I imagine the devil
is slightly more competent than Cotts.
CT II - April 28, 2009
not to mention bring more heat...
ballhawk - April 28, 2009
ha ha ... good one :-)
zevkalman - April 28, 2009
Hello
my name is Milton Bradley, I have been relegated to customer service while my groin heels, what the f%$# so you want?!
gwood - April 28, 2009
Yeah, could you guys get right on taking the site down???
That’d solve everything!
AndrewJStone - April 28, 2009
I'm unclear on your thoughts.
This site was here for anyone to register and participate and everyone was able to abide by all guidelines.
With the inclusion of the yahoo link, why should anything change? This is Al’s site, in partnership with SB Nation. What they say goes.
We are all welcome guests and need to accept their requests for kindness and discussion. We don’t get to decide to change things because all are welcome and it’s the internet. I guess this is the point and you seem to be missing it.
It is the internet, but we don’t get to defecate in the living room because someone invited us to their house.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
It is the internet, but we don’t get to defecate in the living room because someone invited us to their house.
See where you’re comign from but i disagree. we SHOULDN’T drop one in the living room—I wouldn’t, you wouldn’t—but it doesn’t mean you can’t. so until you put in place functionality limits that will prevent people from doing certain things, some people will do them. i mean come on, you can’t say this site isn’t a message board, it might not have been envisioned that way, but take a look around, that’s what it is. because that’s how people choose to use it everyday.
SVcubbie - April 28, 2009
Well...
The reason you wouldn’t is because you were raised right or trained to do otherwise.
The host of this site has chosen to try to educate people on how to use this site and others have elected to assist in the education to make this a good place to visit.
Each of these people is working to eliminate the message board mentality and make others aware that type of site usage is not appropriate or welcome.
Either you’re trolling for reaction or are encouraging people to ignore the polite requests of the host.
N Oakley - April 28, 2009
Nonetheless, we will continue to...
…rage, rage against the dying of the light.
daver - April 28, 2009
Wow....Dylan Thomas....
Clearly, this is the most intellectual of all Cubs blogs….
zevkalman - April 28, 2009
Um, no.
It’s not a message board. While some of the comment features are message-board-like, it’s very different. If you can’t see that, I’d suggest you go elsewhere.
Further, I’ve had enough with the “it’s only the internet” argument. When you signed up for this site, you agreed to the following:
This is my site. I run it by my rules. Virtually everyone has no problem with them. If you do, then please go elsewhere.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
a lot of the criticism
and I mean MOST of it, is being directed at posts that pass that test. There are a few glaring counter-examples to be sure. But a lot of the kerfuffle is about whether posts are too wearisome when they focus on a topic that visitors who are nearing their 25,000th comment feel has been debated to death already. Thats something that newer or less frequent guests can legitimately disagree about without having slipped the bounds of decent conduct.
And while we’re on the topic, I dont mean to point fingers, but there’ve been quite a few “idiots” and “morons” thrown out by posters who have deputized themselves the thought police. I even had a “get stuffed” lobbed my way today. So it quite obviously runs both ways. [and I hereby apologize sincerely for sneering that Drew must be a bad lawyer, if indeed a lawyer at all, when what I meant was that I respectfully disagreed with his opinion]
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
I think the dustup between you and Drew got a little out of hand.
Not blaming either one of you. But that’s the kind of thing that shouldn’t happen here. We can disagree without namecalling. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.
And many of us spend a lot of time here. To keep the conversation moving, I think to ask for less duplication of posts is also not too much to ask for.
Al Yellon - April 28, 2009
I think we can agree on that.
Orval Overall - April 28, 2009
COTTS released?
Is this true?
Itchy - April 28, 2009
Got a link?
No Twittermyer yet, nothing on the Tribs web site.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
Where did you hear this?
daver - April 28, 2009
Another somewhat unreliable site
Itchy - April 28, 2009
What, is this a secret site?
Schwa - April 28, 2009
What are its initials?
daver - April 28, 2009
It's phony!!
Feel free to slam away!
Itchy - April 28, 2009
World-class sense of humor you have, my friend.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
Not trying to be funny
I found out it was false.
Itchy - April 28, 2009
Please accept my apologies
I gotta learn to read past the headline sometimes……..
Itchy - April 28, 2009
It's all good.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
Hmm... a "Cotts released" rumor that turns out to be not true
a perfect example of a “false positve” if there ever was one…
ballhawk - April 28, 2009
No kidding!
I was feeling pretty happy till I discovered it was baloney.
Itchy - April 28, 2009
I see whut u did thar
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
sttoC!!
gwood - April 28, 2009
A good article on Hendry and sttoC and Notlim --
here
zevkalman - April 28, 2009
the Josh Hamilton thing?
really? Cmon.
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
The guy who wrote that is from Southern Illinois. I should have gone there
to party, err, I mean to study….
zevkalman - April 28, 2009
Seriously.
The writer lost all credibility when he mentioned that.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
I don't know that I would call that an article
Nor do I agree with the “author’s” use of the word inept to describe Hendry. Granted Hendry may have made some questionable decisions this offseason, I do not think that 18 games (17 at the time the author published) is enough to judge whether those decisions were right or not.
The whole Woody and DeRosa topics have been covered ad nauseum already on this site. And I do not feel that covering all that again is necessary. Nevertheless, regardless of how this offseason’s moves turn out, calling Hendy “inept” is completely wrong.
gwood - April 28, 2009
That's one craptastic article..
“The Chicago Cubs are 9-8, but have a slew of problems.”
As you said they have played a whole lot of *17 games and even with a slew of problems they are above .500. Chill out, it’s a marathon not a sprint.
“Their bench depth is weaker than Neifi Perez (with performance enhancing drugs, mind you).”
I give you that (though nothing tangible on god green earth can be weaker than Neifi!)
“Their bullpen is just that … bull.”
Now, your argument is bull. A bullpen that has Carlos Marmol, Heilman and Gregg is not water tight but it is not bull either. It’s way early in the season and the pieces will fall into place. Holy schnikes, as you say it’s only 17 games.
“And if I say one disparaging thing about Milton Bradley, he might combust and never say anything to the media again.”
I don’t care if Milton never says anything to the bunch of clowns aka Chicago Sports media. Leave the guy alone. He is a very good hitter with great patience and it’s only a matter of time before he starts hitting (Did you say it’s only 17 games?)
“It is because of General Manager Jim Hendry the Cubs are here and it will be because of Hendry whether or not the Cubs sink or swim from this point forward”…..
“Hendry signed an extension in the offseason, and in turn, he put forth quite a lackluster offseason.”
Wow 17 games into the season and Hendry is already in the hot seat! Can we please wait before we play simon cowell.
“Oh, and about Milton Bradley. Some people actually thought he was a good pick up because he would bring a fire and feistiness to the Cubs clubhouse that has never been seen. (Even though the Cubs have that guy in Carlos Zambrano). All Bradley has brought to the North Side is an injured groin and a mini-war against the media”
How in the heck did Milton Bradley bring a war against the media. It’s the darn media that can’t leave him alone. Save for an article or two the Chicago sports media has been full of negativity against this guy from day one. Can you blame him for not wanting to talk to this so called bs media while dealing with an injury and a slow start? May be if you are nice to him he will talk to you?
“Hendry’s offseason efforts have failed and the Cubs need a spark. "
Really, you decided that they failed after 17 games?
“You can’t build a bullpen over night”
Just as you absolutely should not judge a team after 17 games.
“Neal Cotts, Angel Guzman and David Patton join Gregg on the B.S. bullpen list.”
So Angel Guzman and Kevin Gregg are now B.S to you? I don’t know what to say.
“But in 2009, it looks as if Hendry forgot how to judge talent.”
and you are moving away from sanity
“However, we wait with baited breath. We know better than to trust someone with Creighton ties.”
No, now I know what kind of BS I can expect on your so called Sports Blog.
cubsnlinux - April 28, 2009
Easy slugger. I don't think the author is here to refute.
And the ‘quote’ button is your friend. But I agree with your sentiment (which could succinctly be put: small sample size).
Schwa - April 28, 2009
Breath . . .
Inhale . . . exhale . . . good, now do it again . . . slowly
gwood - April 28, 2009
I am sorry, I should have been a bit more subtle
but this tirade against bradley from the ignorant fans to the media is just getting way overboard.
(inhale ….exhale…)*2…
ok, all’s well now :-)
cubsnlinux - April 28, 2009
I agree
I think his reputation is preceding him a bit and leading to him not getting the benefit of any doubt.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Maybe try to find the author's e-mail address...
…so all of this doesn’t go to waste.
daver - April 28, 2009
couldn't find it on the article
but will dig more when I get home.
cubsnlinux - April 28, 2009
Woah. Did the front page of ESPN change for anyone else?
They moved the headlines (the most important part of the front page) down and put a giant ad in their place. 2 of the first 3 things you see on their page now are huge, obnoxious ads (one of which is a video that autoplays, with sound). This is such a joke.
Schwa - April 28, 2009
The other
evil empire has to make money some how.
gwood - April 28, 2009
Alright!
I am off to Max’s second baseball game of the season. It’s a bit chilly, but he’s rarin to go.
Please, everyone wish for a (Westdale) Brewers victory over the (Westdale) RedSox! I will have a Game Wrap Up post with pictures tonight or tomorrow!
drewishdrewid - April 28, 2009
Here's hoping
he is perfect at the plate with at least 2 home runs.
gwood - April 28, 2009
good luck
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
OT: HWSNBN analogy
in an article written for the brand-spanking new ESPN Chicago, there is an article discussing Joakim Noah (in case you want to read the whole thing). That part is relatively inconsequential because the entertaining part of the article (for BCB purposes) is the following analogy used by the author:
HWSNBN on red-bull, very, very scary thought
gwood - April 28, 2009
another problem
is that many who join a game thread and talk insane, do not read other threads.
Cubbie-Tim - April 28, 2009
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