Be happy this morning -- not just for the Cubs' 6-2 win over the Padres, but for many members of the team, especially two I'm thinking about in particular.
Milton Bradley got booed after striking out in the fourth inning -- totally unjustified, I think. It's not as if Milton hasn't been trying, in fact, perhaps he's been trying too hard -- he even said so the other day -- and so I was really happy for him, not to mention the team, when Milton hit a home run that might still be going. If you saw it on TV, you never saw where it landed, because the cameras lost the ball -- it left the park and landed on Sheffield, just to the right of the center field bleachers. It was estimated in the park as 436 feet, but it had to be 460 or 470; I haven't seen a homer that long at Wrigley Field since the bomb that Sammy Sosa put onto Waveland during the 2003 NLCS. The Padres outfielders never budged, nor turned around to watch it.
Be happy also for minor league lifer Bobby Scales, who smacked his first major league homer in the seventh (giving the Cubs what Lou termed in his postgame press conference "one of those tack-on runs") and then raced around the bases in what seemed about five seconds. Scales is a nice addition to the Cubs; he'll never be a star, but as a switch-hitter with a little speed and a little pop in his bat, he will be a useful addition to the bench.
Rich Harden started out the game as if it wasn't going to be his day. By the time he had faced three batters, two of them had extra-base hits and the second of those, a homer by the Padres' one legitimate hitter, Adrian Gonzalez, gave San Diego a 2-0 lead. But then, Harden settled down and retired 14 straight hitters and left the game after six innings having allowed only two more hits, both singles, and a walk. He didn't strike out that many last night -- only five -- and maybe that can be more of a key to his success than blowing away hitters. He mixed up his pitches well and this was by far his best start of the year.
The beleaguered bullpen threw three scoreless innings in relief of Harden, and best of all, only one walk (by Carlos Marmol) was issued after Harden left the game. Even Aaron Heilman, who has been walking everyone in sight, managed 10 strikes in his 17 pitches. Marmol only threw eight in 16 pitches, but had enough to get out of his one inning with some good breaking stuff.
And, it wasn't just the homers from Bradley and Scales providing the Cubs with offense; Kosuke Fukudome kept up his hot hitting with three hits (including two doubles) and a stolen base, raising his average to .333. Alfonso Soriano matched Fukudome with the doubles and a single, and even Geovany Soto appeared to get out of his struggles with a single and a walk. But, Geo? Don't drop your bat at the plate when you think it's ball four. Let the umpire tell you to take your base. Umpires hate being shown up that way. (And you're more likely to get the benefit of the doubt on close calls if you don't do that.)
We are, this year, having actual spring weather, with temperatures neither scorching nor freezing, and last night was pleasant. The nice evening brought out a fairly large assortment of people who were ejected for underage drinking -- some before the game even started. The rest of the crowd greeted ex-Cub Henry Blanco with some warm applause when he was introduced in the lineup; after that he was treated like any other opponent. This was appropriate, I think, for the contributions that Hank White made while he was here. Blanco, incidentally, had a two-homer game earlier this year and has three homers in all -- but only three other hits, all singles, and is hitting .162.
Meanwhile, since Jake Peavy actually appeared in this game, you will hear more from me about him than you've heard all winter. He got a bit of applause from those who think he might eventually be a Cub, but was also treated like any other opponent. Peavy, usually a decent hitter, has no hits this year but hit two balls hard right at fielders. His 2-5 record reflects the fact that his team has scored only 22 runs in his seven starts, although his 4.30 season ERA is a run higher than his career ERA.
The win, combined with the Pirates' win over the Cardinals, moved the Cubs to within 1.5 games of first place (though they still must jump over both Milwaukee and Cincinnati, both one game out). The Cubs really ought to sweep the Padres if they are going to contend without Aramis Ramirez; last night's team effort was a great step in that direction.
0 recs | 511 comments
First!!!!!!!
niuhuskie224 - May 13, 2009
couple of thoughts
Like Al, Bradley’s missle reminded me of Sosa’s NLCS shot. I think it was Game 1. Thanks for pointing out where Bradley’s homer actually landed.
How do people under 21 obtain beer at Wrigley? And how do they get enough to become disorderly and ejected? My 20 year-old is coming home from school on Sunday, and I’m certain he and his cronies will attend some games. I don’t want them drinking.
thermal54 - May 13, 2009
Most of the time...
… the underage drinkers have friends who are 21 or over buy the beer for them. I’m not sure how that can be stopped; they try to do so by limiting the number of beers you can buy at a time (two), but that doesn’t always help.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
At our local A team stadium
They only let you buy 2 beers and they require that the person that will be drinking the second beer be present with an ID. Bit of a pain but it keeps the trouble down to a dull roar on Thirsty Thursdays
carolinacub - May 13, 2009
Not to sound rude, but if you’re 20 years old and on a college campus, you can drink anyway you want. The hard part’s not finding the booze, it’s finding something to do.
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
That doesn't make it any less illegal.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
Or worrisome
These guys (and gals) have to realize that when they come home, they’re not in Kansas anymore. And I do mean Kansas (Lawrence).
thermal54 - May 13, 2009
Yeah, well, I'm @ KU.
Bring up the big Kansan articles about a month ago with your son. That’ll jump-start some discussion. I believe we have had 3 or 4 alcohol-related deaths on campus—on campus!—in the last two or three months.
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
I'm surprised with the amount of booze consumed @ the UW that
they’ve been lucky enough to not have to deal with that.
Madison Cub Fan - May 13, 2009
Experience pays, I guess
Clutch16 - May 13, 2009
or it could be like Univ Texas
where anything negative is well hidden, and never spoken of, including by the Police.
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
Unless you're the student athlete
who had the DEA and other government agencies following him for dealing coke. When the story broke, I happened to be playing poker with a couple cop buddies, who said that in all the years, and all the drug busts they had been involved in, they have seen a fraction of the amount of coke this student had, or had dealt.
Craig in South Bend - May 13, 2009
I know at Texas
Cedric Benson was a complete screw up. He had a target (bigger than Bradley with Umps) and that is why when he was no longer a student, he got busted twice in a short period. He kicked in dorm room doors as a student looking for his “stolen” items, that he bought with the “laundry money he saved”. He also got busted with drugs more than once while a student at Texas. While playing for Texas, these things made the news when they happened, but then disappeared just as fast.
I cannot comment on specifics about other schools, was jsut compaaring some similar incidents.
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
In my limited experience of a handful of midwestern colleges, you’re right, Madison somehow doesn’t have as much of a problem as I would think.
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
not to totally OT the thread
but the amount I use to drink is surprising that I never ended up w/ alcohol poisoning.
Madison Cub Fan - May 13, 2009
Same
I always made sure to call a cab though, which came in handy for the times where I had difficulty getting to the cab, not to mention getting from the cab to my house.
Craig in South Bend - May 13, 2009
Right. I know that.
I’m seeking my third degree from my third university, and as somebody that’s making a career out of a professorship in academia, I’ve seen this problem first hand, participated in it, deal with college freshman and sophomores that waste my time in my class talking about how drunk they were last night, and read in the Kansan a few weeks ago about a 3-part front page story on drinking, death, and binging @ KU. This is gonna turn into a civics discussion and I know it shouldn’t go there.
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
they show up at class
stewed sometimes. I never had balls that big. Oh well.
I’m familiar with KU’s new alcohol policy. One strike, and I get a call.
Ok, I’m dropping this thread.
thermal54 - May 13, 2009
Yeah, new policy a few weeks ago.
If you’re interested, here’s the Kansan (student newspaper) special section on the topic. I found it interesting—written by students for students. I think it’s one of the best works they’ve done in the short time I’ve been down here. Rock Chalk. You gotta get down here for a game next year—we’re gonna be ranked #1!!
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
M-I-Z...
kanderber - May 13, 2009
heh
Just got the joke. My son almost was a Tiger.
thermal54 - May 13, 2009
ZOU!!!
nji232 - May 13, 2009
Aaaand the point goes to...
THE RAMBLERS!!!
northernsails - May 13, 2009
This is a good read
I’m surprised good journalism can come out of such a bad place (I kid).
The problem is stupid people who don’t know what they are doing when they get to school.
nji232 - May 13, 2009
The alcohol sectin of the Kansan should be mandatory for all frosh, IMO.
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
I can't believe people let the newspaper film a party
wow.
nji232 - May 13, 2009
For what it's worth...
… there are only four countries* (Ukraine, South Korea, Malaysia, and the United States) with a drinking age of 21 or higher. It has been pretty well debated that this rule not only does not help the 18 – 21 year olds of our country adjust to the responsibility of consumption, but may actually encourage them to make unwise and unsafe decisions.
Fact is, college students today are going to drink. I don’t condone getting it in illegal ways, as the law is the law, but it does seem to me that, at least in the college setting, it’d be better to have kids drinking in a central bar district with bouncers and adequate exits and bathrooms, professionally made (proportioned) drinks, well lit streets, and a smaller chance for other illigal activities taking place a room away.
Again, i don’t condone breaking the current laws in Wrigley or KU or anywhere else, but i believe the law in this case needs a second look. Having spent 5 years at a major party school has convinced me of this. The 18 – 21 demographic is going to drink, and it hasn’t been proven that there is any worse of a consequence for them as there is for 21 – 25 year olds. Legalize and regulate it and you’ll increase the safety with which they can do so.
*This is my best memory, based on a paper i wrote in college, and may be off by a couple… but its close.
AndrewJStone - May 13, 2009
I believe the drinking age in France is 9
Seriously kids there DO drink wine. Got to develop that taste early.
Doggie Stalker - May 13, 2009
And i bet they have...
… less of a problem with binge drinking, alcoholism, and the problems that ensue…
Putting it at 21 puts its up on this pedestal as the “holy grail” of getting old. If the age was 18, most kids would still be at home. I’d much rather my future kids share their first beer with ME at Wrigley (where i can tell them about how to responsibly consume it) than with whoever they latch on to the first weekend in the dorms at KU or U of I or wherever else.
AndrewJStone - May 13, 2009
Completely agree...
CubsBullsBears - May 13, 2009
+1 and rec'd
I went to a small school in Wisconsin and was a member of the Greek system there. The Greek system was the major player in the social scene because we had our own houses and could throw bigger parties. When I started we were allowed (maybe not allowed, but at least security looked the other way) to serve drinks at our parties. Sometime during my second or third year, the administration cracked down and we were no longer able to serve drinks at our parties.
After this crackdown, I noticed a serious uptick in the number of acquaintances and the like going to the hospital for alcohol poisoning. We always looked out for the people at our parties. When we were no longer able to serve drinks, people would spend the hour or so before the party making sure they drank enough to remain drunk through the entire party in a much less supervised environment.
I would also prefer to have them drinking legally and in more controlled and supervised environments.
gwood - May 13, 2009
I dunno.
I’ve lived in Europe. It was not my experience that kids there were any more responsible when it comes to alcohol…at all. I asked some of the locals about the drinking age vs. the US (this was in Austria) and there remark was something to the effect of: “Instead of kids binge drinking when they’re early 20s, they binge drink when they’re 15 and then continue doing it into their early 20s.”
I don’t think you learn to be responsible with alcohol by trial and error…any more than kids learn politeness and respect by that method. I think you learn responsibility by having parents and adults provide you with framework of expectations (with consequences for failure) until you’re mature enough to understand why those expectations exist.
Lastly, I don’t recall the details exactly, but I believe the human brain doesn’t stop developing until the early 20s (it happens faster for women than men). Drinking prior to that point inhibits the proper development of the brain…which is one reason why the drinking age is where it is in the US. (or so I’ve been told).
CubsWin!Oregon - May 13, 2009
You say....
Yet you “dunno” if the drinking age should be moved up to the point that those parents would still have the chance to influence? I’ve been to Euorpe as well, and it has always seemed to me that drinking was a BIGGER part of their culture while also being less of a detriment. Social drinking vs drinking to get drunk is very different. Under our countries current system, kids wait till they are 21 (or know somebody who is) and just RAGE. I’ve been there.
As far as alcohol’s effects on the brain… everything I’ve read claims the brain develops pretty much up to 40. 21 is an arbitrary number, and we all know 21 year olds less mature than 18 year olds both mentally and physically.
AndrewJStone - May 13, 2009
Well...
I was going to reply because I think you’re logic is flawed. And at any rate, I’ve already noted that my experience leads me to a different conclusion. But really, who cares.
I’d much prefer to talk about the Cubs instead. :) So I guess we’ll have to just disagree on this one…
CubsWin!Oregon - May 13, 2009
It is pretty easy
As long as you dont get rowdy. You can bring in any clear liquor no problem and just mix it in soda.
jkobus - May 13, 2009
Learned something new this year
At the last game I attended, I arrived pretty early, and out of all the empty seats in the section there was a guy sitting in my seat! We laughed about it, and chatted. He was a “spotter”, given free access to about a dozen games a year to watch for underage drinking. Actually, what they watch for is to be sure the vendors check IDs on every single sale, even to repeat customers. He moved around some, even coming back near me toward the end of the game after some folks had left. I got the idea he was a Chicago police officer working this duty for a chance to see the game free.
Now I’ve seen fans report underage drinking to the ushers before (in the bleachers) and the ushers ask to inspect drinks brought in from outside, if it looks like teenagers are getting tipsy off them, but I didn’t know there were plainsclothes spotters also checking on the vendors.
cubzfan - May 13, 2009
As you say Al
really nice to see bradley starting to come out of his slump. Even on all the replays I still thought Bradley’s homerun stayed in the park, nearly landing in the second level of bleachers in center field.
I was going to say that was the longest homerun I have seen hit at Wrigley that stayed in the park since Sammy parked one over the camera booth in center field.
gwood - May 13, 2009
Looked like it disappeared past the bleachers...
… as I said, the cameras appeared to lose it. I know ballhawk was around last night, if he was on Sheffield at the time maybe he can fill us in.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
It stayed in the park, Al
If he hit it out to center like that, it would have to be a 600 ft HR to clear those bleachers
berselius - May 13, 2009
The only way it left the park was if some fan was so revolted at the idea of owning a baseball that Milton Bradley in some way touched and decided to throw it out of the park. The video shows quite clearly where that ball landed.
berselius - May 13, 2009
or bounced on the concrete?
carmen_fanzone - May 13, 2009
I do believe they said it bounced
in the walkway between the lower and upper bleachers in right CF…. at that point maybe it bounced out of the park in right-center
tony412 - May 13, 2009
Per Bruce Miles:
Fishbone2 - May 13, 2009
600 feet?
No way. Home runs have exited the park to the right or left of the CF bleachers before without being 600 foot jobs. 600 feet would put any HR far across Waveland.
Where di you get that chart?
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
It's from hittracker.com
http://www.hittrackeronline.com/hrdetail.php?id=2009_1000
berselius - May 13, 2009
Is that supposedly the track of Bradley's HR?
Because that’s not where it landed.
Also, the height given for the walls is wrong. The walls are 12 feet high, not 15.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
I don't know, Al
You had a good of a view as I did, and in person I recall it going up near (but not quite making) the walkway where the concession stand under the upper part of the bleachers is. Then I watched the replay, which seems to confirm that. I’m pretty sure it didn’t make it out of the stadium.
gauchodirk - May 13, 2009
i think you are misremember Al
That is pretty much where the HR landed.
I understand you think the camera missed it but the replay shows the fans pretty much all looking in that area.
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
OK...
… it sure looked like it left the park. If that diagram is accurate, though, it definitely went more than 436 feet.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
if you watch the highlight on MLB
it shows the HR ball in air between the 11th and 12th second. A guy from the second deck tried to reach over and grab it.
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
linky
Milton’s Bomb
cubbot - May 13, 2009
Boy I love Milton Bradley
Love how he puts his finger to his ear asking the crowd where the boos are.
Also why does MLB think I need to watch a 30 second commercial of michael irvin yelling before i watch a 40 second highlight?
nji232 - May 13, 2009
b/c they are clueless
Madison Cub Fan - May 13, 2009
MLB is $$$$$$ hungry
how else does Selig make $18m
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
flachimesa - May 13, 2009
I remember thinking during his previous AB...
…that if he had connected on any of those swings-and-misses, he would have put the ball into orbit around Pluto. It was really nice to see that thought come true.
daver - May 13, 2009
Sad to say, Bradley's blast stayed within the Friendly Confines
It was close though. A little more to the right and it could have found enough concrete to bounce out and end up down by Murphy’s.
Now if only Gerald Perry would work with Milton on pulling the ball… ;-)
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
Thanks for the confirmation.
It sure looked like it left the yard from my seat.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
SD TV treated Bradley's HR
As this type of HR was commonplace at Wrigley. I mean, you don’t have to gush over an opponent’s HR. However, this type of blast…..was a monster. You just have to be breathing to formulate that thought.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - May 13, 2009
Not only a long HR
but I haven’t seen one go into that part of center field for a long, long time. I say Milton is heating up and what a six or seven game hitting streak?
I was hoping for a pretty good pitchers duel last night and I was not disappointed.
Scales will stay on this team if he just keeps doing things like last night. The way he ran the bases on the HR was like the anchor leg on the 4×100.
mrcubsfan - May 13, 2009
Wait a sec....
Totally agree that Bradley didnt deserve the boooing…..
But really Al, if he does crap like he did last night – he is going to get booed. After he HRed he should have celebrated and been happy, instead he put his hand to his ear as he was walking into the dugout. And for that, he is asking to get booed.
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
Don't know if the finger to ear was bad
It seems to me that was a very low key way of celebrating and letting the fans know that he was enjoying thier pleasure of his performance
carolinacub - May 13, 2009
I took it as the Zambrano thing...
from a few years ago when he pointed to his head.
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
I didn't.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
for someone that wasn't at the game
what was the reception for him when he took his place in the field?
socalbob - May 13, 2009
Welcomed like any other Cub OF would be after a HR...
… with applause.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
great
I bet that makes him gain confidence and he will be blowing up offensively in a big way. Thanks for the update.
socalbob - May 13, 2009
blowing up offensively in a big way
Sooo many ways to take that… :D
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
I can see that
All I can say is that when I saw the replay and saw him do that I got a kick out of it and really thought it helped show him trying to bond with the crowd
carolinacub - May 13, 2009
yes
that is exactly the way I interpreted it
CubFanInCanberra (9387milesfromWrigley) - May 13, 2009
he was happy
to hear the cheers.
Dood had his second game winning hit in three days. He DOESN’T deserve to get booed at all.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
I retract my thoughts....
about this – after reading his quote i understand why he did it. Thank you Milton for the explaination. You can have your stapler back.
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
Bradley
I have not been a Bradley fan since his stint with Oakland. But I am still willing to give him a chance to see if he can fit in with the team and fans. Based on his past history, my bet is that he will be his own worst enemy as the season progresses. Hope not.
wccubfan - May 13, 2009
Yeah I didn't see that
as being “crap” at all. I thought it was a riot. Didn’t take it like he was being “dickish” towards the crowd one bit. The month or so that we’ve seen Milton in cubbie blue, even despite the struggles, I have found him to be entertaining as all hell.
DamonBerryhillsMitt - May 13, 2009
My take on booing...
… what’s the point? You think the player doesn’t know already? You think a mentally fragile player like Bradley is going to hear it and think more highly of the Cubs and their fans, and in turn want to try harder? If anything, the booing risks alienating a player that we NEED, now more than ever with Rami out, to play well.
If you screw up at work, do you need everyone around you telling you about it? If you have a string of bad luck, do you want the world encouraging you, or bringing you down?
At best, its a fruitless gesture. At worst, its detrimental to the team you came to cheer on. Boo the opponents. Boo the umps. Boo Denise Richards when she tries to sing during the 7th inning stretch. Leave anybody in Cubbie Blue out of it.
AndrewJStone - May 13, 2009
In 14 PAs, Bobby Scales already has more TB than Gathright did, and is a few shy of Reed Johnson, Koyie Hill, and Geovanny Soto, whom all have at least 41 PAs. I don’t know enough about how call-ups and demotions work to make an educated guess about how Scales can stay up in the majors when Zambrano comes back, but I think Lou should STRONGLY consider it. The way the guys talk about him in the clubhouse makes it obvious to me that he’s a sort of sparkplug and energy this team has been lacking. I know a good story can get nostalgic after awhile, and in turn hurt our bench, but the guy is damn hot right now. And frankly, he’s got me excited, too, considering our best player and ace pitcher are both on the DL and 3 of our best hitters haven’t been hitting.
Dan
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
Scales...
…. is probably here until Ramirez comes back, at least.
When Z returns, either Wells or Ascanio goes back to Iowa.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
Or Patton is let go
in some fashion
cubzfan - May 13, 2009
Maybe.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
I think Patton is going to be returned.
It’s tough to hide a guy all year. He looked great in ST but it seems like he’s a bit over-matched in the bigs.
Fishbone2 - May 13, 2009
Maybe they can make a deal to keep him.
He seems to have a good arm — eventually, he might be useful.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
i guess it would depend on the asking price
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
True.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
Or Cotts goes . . . and Marshall goes to the 'pen
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
I'd rather keep Marshall in the rotation.
He’s done an excellent job.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
If Cotts can't find it...
Lou may not have a choice. I’d like Marsh to start too but his hand may be forced. Seems like Waddell and Atkins aren’t really doing that well in the minors.
Fishbone2 - May 13, 2009
There has to be someone else.
Why hurt the rotation?
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
You would think, but then
they’d be digging pretty deep in the minors to find a guy that might not be ready. In Lou’s mind he may not think Wells starting is hurting the rotation.
Fishbone2 - May 13, 2009
I think he's done a credible job
I don’t know that I’d say a 1.35 WHIP is excellent.
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
He's done what a fifth starter should do.
Take his team into the 6th or 7th with a chance to win the game.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
Sure, I'm not faulting him
However, I don’t think it would hurt the rotation that much to replace him with Wells.
Again, I’m not saying that’s the move I’d make; I’m not sure. I do think that’s what the Cubs will do.
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
I hope you're wrong.
Nothing personal!
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
No offense taken
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
A side note..
a bit in advance though.. If Jay Jackson has a good year, and the Cubs re-sign Harden — I wonder if he would take Marshalls spot in rotation and have him go to the bullpen?
Unique - May 13, 2009
I think Harden as a closer is an intriguing possibility
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
(I realize that's not what you asked, but it prompted the though)
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
Nah,
I think he’ll stick as a starter, IMO. Unless he has a serious injury that points him to the bullpen.
Unique - May 13, 2009
That's how I feel
if he proves he can stay healthy for the majority of the season, he is too good to put in the bullpen.
gwood - May 13, 2009
Aside from his last start, Marshall has been very impressive
Lou’s left him in too long in some of his starts, which are hurting his numbers a little bit
berselius - May 13, 2009
And a couple times...
… relievers have let in baserunners Marshall put on base, inflating his ERA
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
I don't consider ERA to be that great of a stat when evaluating pitchers
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
It's not, but...
… Marshall’s ERA is not representative of the way he has pitched.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
Sure, I don't dispute that
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
There is another option, albeit slightly unconventional
Jeff Stevens. He might have had his best performance last night, but left-handed batters are hitting just .071 against him (1-for-14).
If Lou was willing to use Stevens to see if he can be as effective against lefties at the Major League-level, it might be another solution to the Cotts Dilemma.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
I think that's possible, yes
But I do wonder about all those BB’s . . .
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
They definitely are
a 9:13 BB:K ratio certainly isn’t good, and it does need improving. The fact that 6 of those walks are to LHB doesn’t help Stevens either.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
Is there some way
to account for those walks. Above you posted that lefties hit .071 against him, but that is misleading in light of the 6 walks Is there a better pitcher stat (other than K:BB) that can account for the walks? Do they keep track of OBP against for pitchers, or something similar?
gwood - May 13, 2009
They do. Here are his LH/RH splits
vs Left: .071 AVG, 1-for-14, 6 BB, 1 IBB, 6 SO, .381 OBP, .071 SLG, .452 OPS, 104 pitches, 62 strikes
vs Right: .135 AVG, 5-for-37, 3 BB, 0 IBB, 7 SO, .195 OBP, .162 SLG, .357 OPS, 157 pitches, 94 for strikes
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
The OBP vs. lefties isn't great
Except for those walks to the lefties he looks like a very effective pitcher regardless of the handedness of the batter.
gwood - May 13, 2009
Yep, if he cuts down on the walks
he should have a place in the Cubs’ bullpen.
By comparison, Neal Cotts’ line looks like this:
vs. Left: .308 AVG, 4-for-13, 6 BB, 0 IBB, 2 SO, .550 OBP, .538 SLG, 1.088 OPS, 89 pitches, 48 strikes
vs. Right: .385 AVG, 5-for-13, 2 BB, 0 IBB, 3 SO, .467 OBP, .462 SLG, .928 OPS, 58 pitches, 32 strikes
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
STEVENS
is a major league ready relief pitcher. I cannot say this enough. He looked years ahead of Smarge in just one inning and had a veteran’s control of his pitches, at least since the start of the season. I feel Patton is clogging things up here for Steven’s. I agree with Al, Patton has a great arm. We will just have to wait and see who goes where.
Les Lancaster - May 13, 2009
I'm not voting on what they SHOULD do, necessarily
This is what I think that they WILL do
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
Remind me why Aaron miles is getting 4.5 mil
When Bobby Scales can do the same thing for 400K?
nji232 - May 13, 2009
So far he
is doing a better job than Miles but we shall see if he keeps it up.
Unique - May 13, 2009
The league
hasn’t had any time to really figure him out yet. We’ll see if Scales can adjust. Personally I hope he does, I like seeing this guy succeed.
gwood - May 13, 2009
I find myself thinking this a lot, too.
But we should bear in mind that, as great as Scales has been – and as great a story as he is – he still has a pretty small sample of ABs. That said, if he continues to succeed – which I really hope he does – it will get harder and harder to make sense of the Miles signing. Scales is far less expensive and appears to have far greater speed (along with the same basic set of skills as Miles).
What’s interesting is a look at the ZiPS (update) projections on Fangraphs. Miles is projected to put up a .626 OPS in 365 ABs. Scales? .764 OPS in 300 AB.
daver - May 13, 2009
Scales may have a small sample size of success...
but Miles has a very large sample size of being not good. The $4.5 million for Miles was a bad decision irrespective of Scales’s play. You can get a .675 OPS middle IF for less than $2 million per year.
SouthernCub - May 13, 2009
Really makes ya wonder.
daver - May 13, 2009
Bobby Scales
It could just be that the league hasn’t gotten a look at him and no one knows how to pitch him yet, but right now he’s playing good ball. Regardless of whatever happens the rest of the season he can be proud of the fact that when he finally got his shot he made the most of it.
mjk83 - May 13, 2009
Huh?
You’re not serious are you? Nobody knows how to pitch to a 31-year old rookie that has toiled in the minors for over a decade? If ever there was someone that should have a book as long as your arm, it would be Scales as I would guess nearly two generations of scouts have seen him play. He’s just swinging the bat pretty well right now, that’s all. No different than when Bradley was swinging it poorly. Same thing.
krummy12 - May 13, 2009
I was just going to say
It’s not like he came out of nowhere. People in baseball have known about Bobby Scales for years. Jake Peavy was probably a teammate of his in the minors. Other pitchers have pitched against him in the PCL. He’s not exactly an unknown.
Josh Timmers - May 13, 2009
That Bradley HR was absolutely demolished.
That ranks up there with Sammy’s 03 NLCS HR and Glenallen’s HR onto the rooftop. Wow!
kanderber - May 13, 2009
The booing has annoyed me
to the extent that it kinda ticks me off. You boo a player for non-effort… you boo a player that doesn’t play for his team. Bradley is a team player, and I’m sure he puts in plenty of work every single day. Their are fans who boo based off performance (Derrek Lee, Bradley until yesterday) — that doesn’t make any sense. Do you think you boost morale by booing your own players? Is that gonna make us win a world championship? It’s complete bullshit.
I don’t care how much money these guys make, I don’t care how much you think you know these players — the fact of the matter is, they are human beings. They are out their busting their butts to perform and none of these current Cubs are lollygagging with their perfomance. You want to help them perform, cheer them when they get in a deep count in a middle of a slump, cheer them when they don’t let their defense carry over from their poor offense. I don’t know if these fans are really Cub fans that are booing — if they are — they need a reality check.
Unique - May 13, 2009
+1000 and rec'd
Archie - May 13, 2009
...and now, advocating for the devil, jasoniniowa!
Don’t you think that, just maybe, the reason Milton was booed was because he failed to make contact with a runner on third and less than 2 outs? I know I was seething after Lee and Bradley both failed to put the ball in play. You usually have to take advantage of any opportunity you get against a guy like Peavy.
Of course in the end, thanks to a couple of bombs, it didn’t matter, but I can understand the disappointment after that at bat.
jasoniniowa - May 13, 2009
I mean
he was facing Jake Peavy now. He isn’t gonna produce every single time in clutch situation.
Unique - May 13, 2009
I read Al's story and was scanning through comments to see if anyone else said this before I typed it.
As much as they were booing Bradley, I think it was the combo of Lee and Bradley both failing to make contact with a runner at third and < 2 outs.
I know I was booing from my couch, figuring that, against Peavy, we couldn’t afford to waste those chances, especially from the two guys who are paid and positioned to be most counted on (without Ramirez) to drive in runs. If it was Hill or Miles, I would have been upset, but less so.
I don’t boo much at games, but when Patterson leads off the game by swinging at the first pitch in 45 of 50 games, Lee continues to try to pull every pitch on the outer third or we keep bringing in Remlinger to face lefties when he simply can’t get them out, I am inclined to voice my dissatisfaction. I don’t think I would have booed if I was at the game yesterday, but I sure would have let a few choice words fly among my ‘discussion’ with my neighbors
JCD - May 13, 2009
exactly
There’s nothing wrong with voicing dissatisfaction when professional athletes (or managers) can’t make adjustments.
elgato - May 13, 2009
But why do it when it is your home team?
Staying SILENT would show your dissatisfaction just as well as booing.
In most cases the player knows (quite clearly) that they have screwed-up, and heaping boos on them will not help at all!
CubFanSince1970 - May 13, 2009
Agreed
sue369 - May 13, 2009
Totally how I feel.
daver - May 13, 2009
you'd rather have silence?
I was at the NLDS massacre last year and it was weird. Emotionless, flat, deflated, listless – use whatever descriptor you want but it was anything but alive. No sign of life at all.
I’d rather have a round of boos to let me know that somebody is still alive and cares than to have a park-full of “meh”…
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
Not to mention that Wrigley doesn't have video game/rawk music blasting between every batter, inning, pitching change, mound visit, etc...
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
It would be cool
to have some tetris or super mario bros music between batters now that you mention it
tony412 - May 13, 2009
I want one of those ribbon scoreboards all the way around Wrigley flashing "Make some noise" between every pitch
NOT
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
Or rally sounds when the visitors are up . . . or Vanilla Ice between pitches
Just like at Miller Park!
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
Last Friday...
… i’m almost positive there was a break where 45 seconds of Tim McGraw transitioned in to 45 seconds of Lil’ Wayne.
Yes. That really happened.
AndrewJStone - May 13, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
just like the players
the fans were just wishing no to lose. Not a good recipe for success.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
Yes, you are inclined
because you’ve paid for your ticket. But what are you gonna accomplish? Is Patterson gonna stop being Patterson because you are booing him? Same for Lee, and Dusty (pitching decision)?
The fans are gonna do what the fans are gonna do. But if you love your team, why in the world do you think that booing them is going to accomplish anything but more stress upon the particular ballplayer?
Unique - May 13, 2009
well, wait a second ...
First you say the booing hurts the team, then you say it’s not going to change anything? Or are you saying that booing will only hurt the players’ moods and not change their approaches?
elgato - May 13, 2009
It's not gonna change
what the fans are gonna think it’s gonna change. They aren’t going to change their approach more often times than not because the fans are booing them. It hurts morale when you boo .. and it only causes the players to press.
Unique - May 13, 2009
I think ...
you and I just disagree on the negative impact of booing.
elgato - May 13, 2009
Totally agree!
Booing just puts more pressure on them to perform. They start to question their own abilities and begin to alter the way the approach the game.
It (booing) hardly ever motivates anyone to do better.
CubFanSince1970 - May 13, 2009
catharsis?
Of course I don’t expect to change them.
But nothing I do as a fan affects the outcome (unless I reach over to catch a ball or forget to wear my lucky underwear)
You’ve never watched a game and said ‘WHAT ARE YOU DOING??!?’ or yelled ’C’MON BLUE, THAT WAS A TERRIBLE CALL’ at an ump after a bad call? You don’t expect a change, but you are invested so you have some degree of passion about it. I’m not there to drink the beer. I want them to win the game and I want the guys that are paid to drive in runs to do that- just like I want the guys who are paid to throw strikes to do that.
And, in my opinion, if the stress of a crowd’s boo is worse than the stress a ballplayer places on themselves to actually produce in that kind of situation, they should find another job. He’s not getting booed every time up. He’s not getting booed as he heads out to play the field. He got booed when he didn’t get the job done. And he’ll get cheered when he does.
JCD - May 13, 2009
Booing after one month of performance
is beyond ridiculous … do you expect him to get it done all the time, especially in 1 month? Let him freaking prove himself!
Of course if you are so thin-skinned that booing actually makes you worse then you should be playing a professional sport. But it cause players to press in certain sitations instead of being yourself.
Yelling “What are you doing?” when a man completely missing cutoff man and saying “C’mon Blue, that was a terrible call” is completely different than booing a player after one month that is new to a team and has a track record of hitting then let the man prove himself before booing him for not succeeding in situations you see fit. It doesn’t help.
Booing Derrek Lee who has had his best years in a Cub uniform — a guy that is clearly trying — that has hit every year he has been with us is crazy. He is clearly frustrated, and booing only compounds that feeling.
Unique - May 13, 2009
To his credit...
I’d predict that DLee would say that the fans can say whatever they want.
And if the ump is only one month on the job, his bad call less bad than that of a 20 year vet who has worked the World Series?
JCD - May 13, 2009
He's saying that because that's true.
The fan CAN say what they want. But the guy didn’t even want to come out of the dugout for his curtain call because of the booing previously. He got booed in 2004 after one month because of the Choi trade and all that booing made no sense — because by 2005 all the fans looked as smart as a brick for booing him and asking for Choi back.
Unique - May 13, 2009
EXCELLENT POINT!!!!
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
I disagree about booing...
when they don’t do their job. I mean come on, baseball is different than real life. A good batter is going to fail 7 out of 10 times, so why boo them when that happens?
Don’t you think they (the players) know when they screwed-up? I’m sure they feel worse about it then we, as fans, do, so what is the big deal?
Bottom line is DON’T BOO THE HOME TEAM!
CubFanSince1970 - May 13, 2009
But honestly...
do you think booing helps the player? Does he say to himself, man these drunk fans are booing me, i gotta start playing better?
For the love of the game, baseball is a sport where you are basically a top 25 player if you FAIL 70% of the time. Think about it, batting .300 is pretty good in baseball, which means, that a player is failing 70%, how many sports can you say that about? So that means a player is going to fail more than he succeeds, so in all actuality we should be booing more than we cheer right?
Booing your own team is pointless, it doesnt benefit the player, the team, or the organization it only hurts it. Top players will not want to come here if we boo for a few bad outings.
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
top players
will follow the money. And, frankly, I support the team by paying for seats and food at games, watching them on TV, etc.
And, again, this isn’t about “a few bad outings.” This is about repeating the same mistakes over and over. If Zambrano walks nine in one start and loses, and then allows 10 home runs in the next start, I’m probably not going to boo him.
But if he walks nine in one start and nine in the next, that’s worthy of a boo or two, don’t you think?
elgato - May 13, 2009
Come on....
That is horrible justification.
We are 1 1/2 months into the season, Bradley has 70 ABs – and he was getting booed? Same with Jaque Jones. To me that is a few bad outings.
Repeating the same mistakes – i dont follow. People dont boo because there is a guy on first with a right hander up no body out, and the hitter doesnt put the ball in right field. That is just bull. They boo because the performance on the field is not what they want. The fans expectation level is almost out of control, too high. Take jason Marquis for example. How many fans despised him? But he was a number 5 for crying out loud. The fans want a Zambrano type at the number 5 and teams just dont have that.
To me booing happens because expectation levels are way too high, it has nothing to do with doing the same thing over and over.
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
I agree
I think it is telling that Jacque Jones, Remlinger, and Patterson were mentioned in this thread. People are booing one player on account for their pent up rage over five seasons. Doesn’t seem fair to the player.
TC Cubby - May 13, 2009
Jaque Jones....
took the brunt of the blame in 2006 for what was a very very bad team.
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
Does he get booed at every AB?
or every time the ball is hit his way in right?
JCD - May 13, 2009
sorry
I meant to say that current players seem to be getting booed because some fan is frustrated all the way back to Remlinger, Jones, & Patterson.
TC Cubby - May 13, 2009
so the expectation of Lee or Bradley actually making contact with the ball is too high?
JCD - May 13, 2009
not at all....
but what does booing that situation do? Was that the first time it has happened? The last?
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
What do you expect them to do?
Not slump? They are getting paid millions of dollars because of their talent… which will show back up at one point, more than likely right?
Unique - May 13, 2009
Well, I'm only speaking for myself
This is a problem with BCB of late. If I say “booing’s OK in some situations,” others assume that I would be OK with all of the booing that occurs.
I was just writing in another comment that I don’t think Milton has deserves boos. I said earlier that Jones shouldn’t have been booed so early for his plate performance — but in June 2006 (or so), when he made his 100th terrible throw, I think it was justified. I never booed Marquis either — and I think it was terrible that he got booed as a visiting player last month.
elgato - May 13, 2009
exactly
If he was getting booed in every AB, it would be brutal.
he got booed in one AB yesterday where he was the second guy in a row to not make contact.
If Heilman came in and walked 3 guys on 9 pitches, pulled, then Cotts was summoned and he threw a first pitch ball or walked the first guy…he would be booed. It has less to do with Cotts (Bradley) for me than it does with the team’s inability to throw strikes or drive in the run.
JCD - May 13, 2009
Bradley....
has been booed at all 7 games i have been too.
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
which is totally ridiculous
elgato - May 13, 2009
agreed
JCD - May 13, 2009
and uncalled for
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
if anyone walks 3 on 9 pitches
I want the ump returned to Umpire School
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
lol...12 pitches
that would be boo worthy
JCD - May 13, 2009
Sorry you are NOT allowed to argue balls and strikes
If an umpire wants to call a walk on 3 pitches ( two of them bouncing in front of the plate to Bradley) that
is at his prerogative . If you dare question that out you go and breath on his cap and you get a five game suspension .
Doggie Stalker - May 13, 2009
what if he calls three strike outs
on 6 pitches?
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
for which team, though?
JCD - May 13, 2009
well
it is a Cubs vs Cardinals game, and the ump is crediting the Brewers with the strike outs, and claims one of the strike outs is a dropped second strike and awards the Brewers a 1-0 victory based on that play.
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
TECHNICAL BALK!
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
Do you really think Z
could care less that he just walked nine guys in two straight games? It probably is tearing him up on the inside. Players do have off days occasionally. that’s baseball.
Every players at the ML level have enough pride in their performance to want to always do good (every time out there), but baseball is such a long season, that there are times when a player just messes up in spite of wanting to perform without making a mistake.
CubFanSince1970 - May 13, 2009
Not a huge fan of booing
I’ve done it on occasion.
Conversely to your point — does cheering make them perform better? “Man, these fans cheered, so it must be good when I get a hit?”
I think they do both have some effect. But unless someone’s dogging it or making the same mistake over and over again, I don’t boo too often.
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
Absolutely...
What is the saying, confidence breads winning?
Who is going to have a better approach to playing, a guy who gets cheered every time he steps on the field, or a guy who is booed every time?
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
Higgy ...
This is essentially what I’ve been saying:
I think they do both have some effect. But unless someone’s dogging it or making the same mistake over and over again, I don’t boo too often.
Maybe SB was doing a better job communicating than I was.
elgato - May 13, 2009
I understand your point.
I think a Todd Huntley deserved a boo. He hated the fans, and booing someone like that deserves the booing.
Dogging it or making the same mistake over and over i can live with, but not getting a hit in a clutch situation, come on. It is a part of the game. Their pitcher is paid to get us out, and we are paid to hit, someone has to lose.
If we booed on clutch hitting, Soriano would be at the top of the list come playoff time.
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
You have clearly defined the difference.
Hundley sucked and had a bad attitude about it. People were booing the attitude, more than the performance.
Bradley, we know, is trying and wants to succeed — maybe TOO much, which is probably one of the reasons he hasn’t done well; he’s probably pressing. Booing Bradley is completely uncalled-for.
Personally, I’ve liked what I’ve seen from him so far and think he’s on the verge of getting really, really hot.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
I personally think with Ramirez out...
Bradley is going to love it. I think he likes the spotlight and Bradley feels that he is now the best hitter in the lineup. Yesterday could be the turning point for him this season.
(i also think his last ab where he walked got him all fired up – and we will now see the real bradley)
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
cool
One thing about clutch hitting …
If the TEAM fails to get clutch hits over and over, I’m OK with booing there, too.
elgato - May 13, 2009
I mean
is there a rule book on booing or something? The booing this year has been out of hand. Let the team play more than one month before we start booing them on their performance.
But hey let me shut up… I’m not paying for your ticket. You boo what ever the hell you want. Just my opinion.
Unique - May 13, 2009
Again, not a big boo-er...but will be a bit of an advocate here
1) I’m not drunk
2) If I was drunk, I may not have realized that the 4 and 5 hitters failed to make contact with a runner at third and < 2 outs
3) If I’m booing there, I’m not booing for change or expecting them to even hear what I say. I’d contend it is for ME. It’s a release. I might instead say ‘G- Dammit!’ or ’Can’t anyone on this team drive that guy in?!?!’ I’m certainly not demurely golf-clapping for the failure. To me, it’s the step reached when the collective groan meets the drama or intensity of a key situation.
4) Nobody would boo when a guy flies out to right.
JCD - May 13, 2009
exactly
boo the situation and the team, not the particular player.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
+ A Billion
and those booing, how many jumped on the Cubs train in 2003, 2007 or 2008 and have no clue what it was like losing with much less talent and less effort.
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
there's another situation where booing is justified, IMO
I’ve said this before in another post, but I want to mention it here. I don’t see anything wrong with booing a guy who’s making the same mistakes over and over, especially mental mistakes. For example, it wasn’t OK to boo Jacque Jones because he was slumping at the plate during his first homestand in 2006. It WAS OK to boo him when he missed the cutoff man for the 100th time.
elgato - May 13, 2009
ah...another one I fogot...the Jock Jones TD Spike
JCD - May 13, 2009
How so?
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
because ...
if more-than-casual fans are noticing the same mistakes over and over, the players should realize that booing comes with the territory.
elgato - May 13, 2009
Could not agree more.
sue369 - May 13, 2009
Well said
Good job Unique.
wccubfan - May 13, 2009
I'm out in Cal, don't get a chance to boo them personally.
Now I do not advocate riding a particular person, but if the situation arises then I would boo them. For in stance with a runner on third with less than two outs, as was the case yesterday. I wouldn’t boo Lee nor Bradley particularly, but I would boo the team as a whole for not getting the job done at that point.
And if you say it was only one instance then I give you this. The Cubs are LAST in the league with a runner on third and and less than two outs. 14th in the league in productive outs. And 12th in the league with a runner on 2nd and no outs.
This shows me that some players are being selfish at the plate and trying to get a glory base hit/ homer instead of just advancing a runner and or least making contact to drive home a run.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
So is there a different
boo for the team and another for an individual player? Can the players distinguish the difference?
sue369 - May 13, 2009
if they understand baseball, they should
a baseball-savvy player will understand that “hey – this was a critical situation and I didn’t deliver. Fans’ gotta right to be pissed.”
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
Yes, last out is made
and the team comes out to the field. Boo the whole team, they didn’t collectively get the job done.
I don’t expect perfection, all the players are going to fail more often then they succeed. But I do want them to do the situational hitting, putting the team first. Like not trying to pull the ball into the left field bleachers with two strikes and a runner on third with no outs. Just like Lee did last night.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
Meh. booing your
favorite team is just stupid. They don’t need the fans telling them they aren’t playing well.
sue369 - May 13, 2009
And I think
accepting futility from your favorite team is just stupid.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
So tell me
does the booing change anything?
sue369 - May 13, 2009
Yes
I’ve paid part of your salary and I expect you to put the team first.
Heck if the Cubs were about league average in the categories I mentioned then I would say okay get it next time. But if they continually do the same thing time and again, then I have a right to voice my displeasure.
Kind of like when Cotts comes in and throws 8 straight balls, I’m gonna boo.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
If they continually
do the same things time and again then the booing is not working. I guess we will just agree to disagree.
sue369 - May 13, 2009
At least
it’s unpleasant for them and they are complaining about it. That should motivate them to do better.
No problem with disagreement, makes life interesting.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
what?
futility has nothing to do with putting the team first—that is craziness.
Do we get to go into every Ford or GM or Chrysler and BOO those employess? I doubt it, but didn’t you pay for part of their salaries too?
Booing is a choice. You choose to BOO. And your choice to BOO is meaningless and more likely hurting to the team you want to win. Rest assured, the players are trying very friggin’ hard to succeed.
socalbob - May 13, 2009
How to you know they are trying hard in every situation?
How about giving yourself up and grounding out instead of striking out?
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
do you really believe
a player is trying to strike out? Do you think giving yourself up is not as easy as you think?
I find it hard to believe you do not believe players are trying hard in every situation.
socalbob - May 13, 2009
I believe
they are trying hard. Just their approach is what I’m talking about. When Dlee comes up with a man on third and no outs, take a shot and hit a nice good liner. But when you have 2 strikes, don’t try to pull the ball, put it into play somehow.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
they are trying to put it in play
don’t you understand that? They take BP everyday and go through the entire situational hitting “get ’em over, get ’em in” so their approach is correct. It’s the execution you are booing. Why create more angst or hostility in a player who you want to play his best?
socalbob - May 13, 2009
Looked like he wasn't just trying
to put the ball into play, but trying to drive the ball out of there.
And if happens all the time, then yes I do want to let the player know how displeased I am.
Booing has been going on for years now, I don’t see Lee not coming to work every day.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
who is doing this?
what player? What player on ANY team?
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
Well, if you ask JP Riccardi
/sarcasm
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
what do you do when you have bad service at your favorite restaurant?
or you buy something that you find out later was broke/defective/didn’t fit from your favorite store? etc. etc.
Booing is not stupid. As long as it doesn’t get nasty/personal, it’s just a way of expressing dissatisfaction with the product/service you’ve paid money for.
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
Does it change anything?
sue369 - May 13, 2009
nope
but neither does typing “poop” in game threads.
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
The players
don’t see that.
sue369 - May 13, 2009
so is booing in the solitude of your own home okay?
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
lol, the collective wouldn't like that either.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
I don't boo ever.
sue369 - May 13, 2009
but you type "poop" all the time
and on occasion have used stronger language to express your dissatisfaction in the game threads.
I just find it very interesting that a simple “boo” at the ball park creates such strong feelings, yet people (more than just you) have no problem letting it rip something fierce in the game threads.
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
depends
what I have for lunch, and most times i don’t blog from the bathroom.
tony412 - May 13, 2009
umm, errr, yeah, I guess "letting it rip" wasn't the best choice of words. my bad.
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
I don't type "poop"
all the time. Sometimes I type crap or shit. :P
sue369 - May 13, 2009
Also,
“dookie”.
AndrewJStone - May 13, 2009
Your missing the point.
We’ve got fans booing Derrek Lee and Milton Bradley off one month of performance. Derrek Lee has had career years in a Cub uniform, Milton Bradley has a track record of hitting. These guys have been booed EVERY time they don’t drive in a run or they strike out lately. We booed Kevin Gregg at the home opener as a introduction.
We as fans can express our thoughts in the way we see fit. But one thing we have to realize is that we aren’t helping the players one bit by booing.
You give the analogy of going to a restaurant and getting bad service/food. Booing Bradley is like going to the restaurant ordering your food and the SECOND after you order it you bitch and complain about how long it’s taking for your food to come.
Unique - May 13, 2009
Iagree with your points
then when you boo for your food taking long after one second, a bunch of idiots that don’t necessarily share your views as to why you are booing or why you feel justified in booing, start booing too for all the wrong reasons.
Then that, now large, group of people booing starts to grow and grow and eventually makes it seem as if all Cubs fans boo their own players.
Then people start making comments about how awful Cubs fans are. Then people start to believe it. It’s just not good. Period.
I think common sense should tell you when it’s appropriate to boo. Soriano hops and misses a fly ball because of it… boo. Soriano goes 0 for 4 with 3 K’s… be disappointed, but dont boo.
tony412 - May 13, 2009
No, I wasn't missing the point
I wasn’t talking about the fans that boo on a moment’s notice. I was talking about booing in general. And the specific point I was making in the comment you replied to was my observation that a lot of people here seem to take issue with booing in general yet see nothing wrong with expressing themselves in terms far worse than “boo” in the game threads.
As for the restaurant service analogy… my point was trying to illustrate other scenarios where you could find yourself in a situation not to your liking, even though it’s your favorite whatever. Therefore what do you do? In a restaurant, I think most folks would complain to the manager/server/host. In a store, I think most folks would take the product back and either exchange or get their money back. In short, it’s a way of expressing your dissatisfaction.
btw – bitching a “SECOND” after you order food? methinks you went to the KOW school of hyperbole.
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
I don't want to get too much into this argument because it seems futile...
But I’m wondering why you feel that a ballplayer is required to perform at a specific level for your benefit?
Maybe we just look at the game differently, but to me the ballplayer is there to perform at a given level for his team. Fans aren’t involved in the equation.
I realize that it’s kind of a complex relationship between fans/teams so my phrasing here might be a bit clumsy. But…
By definition, fans are spectators. They are not customers. Your purchase of a ticket is not a contract guarenteeing delivery of a specific performance or result. You’re paying for the ability to spectate while a game is played out. The only people that are paying for a result (somewhat) is the Chicago Cubs franchise. So I’m ok if Jim Hendry wants to boo. He has a contract for performance. You as a fan, do not.
This is why the restaurant metaphor is so misplaced. A more accurate description would be that your booing is equivalent to you bitching when the guy in the next booth over gets food that is not prepared satisfactorily (ie you aren’t involved in the contractual exchange).
I understand the desire to feel like it’s “our” team. And I often say “we” when talking about the Cubs. But that doesn’t actually mean that I have the standing to actually demand results. So long as the guy isn’t literally preventing the game from being played (since that’s what fans are paying to occur), then I don’t have standing to complain about anything.
CubsWin!Oregon - May 13, 2009
you're right - it is futile...
…as long as you equate booing with bitching.
And by saying “Fans aren’t involved in the equation”, well, you’ve taken this to a whole ‘nother level. If fans aren’t involved, then it shouldn’t matter what fans do, whether it’s cheer or boo. I don’t think this is what you meant, but you make it sound like fans should just sit there quietly and ‘spectate’ the whole game.
ballhawk - May 14, 2009
Does cheering?
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
Boooooooooo!
Boo to this post!
Booooooooooooo!
… Now, what are you guys talking about?
Blue W - May 13, 2009
Cheering is a positive
booing is a negative. Does negativity get you very far?
sue369 - May 13, 2009
No, but neither booing or cheering CHANGES anything.
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
No they don't.
But you feel a lot better after cheering.
sue369 - May 13, 2009
Some feel better after booing
Some feel better after a glass of scotch.
Wait, what?
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
continued disagreement on the ticket
tony412 - May 13, 2009
Their party is in total disarray.
daver - May 13, 2009
It depends on what you think the word change means.
It makes players feel better during slumps if they don’t have that added pressure of the fans booing him every time they collect an out. It makes a minor difference but still.
Unique - May 13, 2009
do you really think
that booing affects the ballplayers? Are they 6 year olds or what? If Bradley was affected, why then did he homer the next time if he was affected by the booing.
I think when he steps into the plate the next time he is focused on what he wants to do at that time and he doesn’t even think about what the crowd is even doing.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
They are humans
The desire for acceptance or to be liked varies from person to person, but most adults still have some degree of it.
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
so it's ok to behave like a six year old
and boo — that’s only human of the fans.
But it’s NOT ok for the players to behave like a six year old and be AFFECTED by those boos.
I see.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
if he was so affected, why did he homer?
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
I'm just trying
to get a handle on your logic, that’s all. I’m not suggesting that the players are effected or not effected by the booing. I disagree with booing for an entirely different reason — it makes the boo-er look like an utter fool.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
What if he's saying, "Boo-urns"?
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
here's my logic on booing...
someone mentioned Soriano hops and misses the ball- boo
cotts comes in 2 games in a row and throws nothing but balls-boo
lee tries to pull every ball and strikes out with a runner on third with no outs, again not coming thru in the same situation-boo
Not every situation deserves a boo, and I don’t have a hair trigger boo either. Hell I’m in Cal and they couldn’t hear me if I did. And if I booed them in Dodgers stadium then I think the locals might get a little mad.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
so name one situation
that doesn’t call for a boo.
You do realize that the other team is trying to get our team out, right?
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
I believe
I heard that Gregg was booed the very first game at Wrigley. He shouldn’t have been.
there’s one.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
+10000
sue369 - May 13, 2009
That's actually a flawed argument
Some people respond better to being “called out”. I’m not saying that’s why Bradley homered, but it doesn’t prove or disprove your stance.
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
I know
but many posters here seem to think that the booing will cause him to be less productive.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
Ah -- got it
I guess the thread was too nebulous. I see where you are going with that.
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
What do you mean?
I didn’t say the Cub players should get into the fetal position and start performing worse when Cub fans boo. I’m simply stating that you don’t boo a player after one month or in Bradley’s case 2-3 weeks when they have a track record.
I don’t care if you guys wanna boo, but all I’m saying is that your not helping. Some of the booers take it to the point that they believe these players need a foot stuck up their ass to start performing . If you are booing your hometown players — after only being in a uniform 25 games or so and you are actually trying and actually trying to help your team win AND you have a track record of picking it back up, WHY is it neccessary to boo?
Treat these guys like our own and support them because they need it.
Unique - May 13, 2009
I'm not one of those
that advocated the booing of Bradley. That guy can rake and will hit this year, if he stays healthy.
I was just saying that the booing doesn’t affect them when they hit.
But if your saying that cheering for Bradley will make him hit .350 then I’ll be up for that if that’s what he needs.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
No cheering doesn't affect a players numbers
but however if your in the midst of a slump and all this pressure is upon you to perform and you also got the fans at your OWN HOME PARK booing you after 1/6 of the season being done then you start to press and you start trying to hit a grand slam even when guys are not on base.
Booing just adds pressure that I don’t think is needed. Especially at your own park. And especially when your trying and it’s April & May for crying out loud.
Unique - May 13, 2009
Then
how can any player ever perform on the road then? That’s all they hear there, including more derisive comments (I’m assuming) then at home.
It’s not as if the booing is going on during his at bat. Now then I would agree that would be distracting.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
but wait.
your example above:
lee tries to pull every ball and strikes out with a runner on third with no outs, again not coming thru in the same situation-boo
Didn’t Bradley come into that same situation with one out instead of no outs, and do the exact same thing? Why are you booing Lee and not Milton?
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
I'm booing the situation
runner on third with no one out. I just used Lee because that was his situation yesterday. Didn’t matter who it was, not trying to call out Lee in particular.
And my point before was that the cubs are dead last in that situation. I want the team to be able to bring that runner home somehow.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
so runner on third
with no outs is significantly different than runner on third with one outs.
One is boo-able, one is not.
Gotcha.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
The club did not come through with a runner on third and no outs.
I am booing the team for not coming through in a situation that can affect the momentum in a game.
Not trying to heap more pressure on the sensitive players, let them take it as a whole.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
right
but you boo after one player gets out, and not the other, right?
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
No I boo when the club doesn't come thru in that situation.
Hell maybe the Lee and Bradley strike out, but then if Fonty had gotten that hit, then I wouldn’t have booed at all.
I boo when the team doesn’t come through in a situation when they need to score.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
I'm going to start booing my wife in those situations too.
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
hey
if you got to third base and couldn’t bring it home. Then Boo on you.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
no no
that’s NOT what you said.
lee tries to pull every ball and strikes out with a runner on third with no outs, again not coming thru in the same situation-boo
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
Then let me qualify then
for poor explanation. I am not putting the whole thing on Dlee’s head. Like I said if Bradley or Fonty had come thru then no problem in my book. No One is going to be successful 100% of the time.
But the last 3 years there is a 50% success rate in this category in the whole league. We are dead last as a team, we need to do better.
It doesn’t matter to me if the pitcher some how gets on third with no outs and then Sori, Riot, and Dome don’t come thru. Boo on the team.
Is it clear now?
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
So you boo in
that situation and since Dome is the last one up to bat how does he tell the differnce if it is a team boo or a boo for him?
sue369 - May 13, 2009
I admit something
will be “lost in translation”. he he
Once again, last out made I boo. For example last night, Lee strikes out, Bradley strikes out, Fonty hits a screamer that the 3rd baseman snags. I boo after the third out. I think Fonty will figure what happened.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
For all you
know he thinks you"re booing him.
sue369 - May 13, 2009
and for all you know
that might make him hit a homer next time up.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
I would bet it
would have no effect on him which makes booing non effective.
sue369 - May 13, 2009
I don't stand up and scream at the waitress
YOU SUCK, if that’s what you mean.
However, I don’t think the analogy fits.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
In general terms, I think it fits
if you look at it as a way of expressing dissatisfaction, then complaining to the manager/server/host could be comparable to booing at a ballgame. Of course, I’m not expecting Crane Kenney will come over subtract $10 off your bill either.
btw – just for the record. When I say “boo”, I literally mean “boo”. I don’t equate booing with “you suck” and any other personal insults or attacks that one hears at the ballpark. To me, that’s a whole ’nother issue…
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
I agree
its a little counter productive in my eyes.
Although I do really appreciate a sarcastic cheer from the stands when they finally get it right.
Allie - May 13, 2009
Bobby Scales is a ....
What a great story….
carmen_fanzone - May 13, 2009
Is this the promo
for Rush Hour 4?
tony412 - May 13, 2009
"Man on Fire"
starring Denzel Washington and Dakota Fanning.
very cool flick but was kinda herky-jerky in its filming style. Lots of action, and Denzel is usual suave & debonair bad-assed self.
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
I thought it was Bobby Scales & Reed Johnson?
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
No Reed. But that does kinda look like Fontenot hiding back there. 'bout the right height.
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
His home from yesterday brought a tear to my eye
It’s so awesome to see this guy finally get his shot and making the most of it. The feelings I have about this are similar to the ones I had watching Hamilton in the home run derby last year. Just one of those things I’ve never seen, and feeling happy to have seen it. Gives me hope.
Craig in South Bend - May 13, 2009
LOL, not bad.
You should change the little girl behind him to Aaron Miles.
daver - May 13, 2009
actually, the way the little girl is cowering and clutching a teddy bear...
…change it to Berkman.
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
And throw in a lightning bolt.
daver - May 13, 2009
91-Win Pace
I can’t believe that. This team has proven so far that it can handle adversity. Big Z and A-Ram are both on the DL. Bradley’s been good lately but has had a bad season overall. Soto has struggled. Lee has a neck problem. Marmol and Gregg have been less than impressive. Yet, this team is still on a pace to go 91-71. I am extremely encouraged by how the Cubs are weathering the storm.
memphiscub - May 13, 2009
agreed
I’m also optimistic that the Cubs can get through the Aramis injury, given their schedule in the next month-plus.
elgato - May 13, 2009
agreed as well
the cubs are winning, but its not like a one run win. They are actually scoring big. I hope they can keep this up. they are what 4-1 or 4-2 if you cound friday game. lets hope Wells has another big game like he did on friday. I have a feeling Wells can stick around. Swing man may be pushing it but at least have him be a long releiver. He deserves to be in the majors if he can keep up what hes been doing.
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 14, 2009
Just saw...
Dome’s two double on tonight’s news show. He has multi-hits (is this Japanese baseball English?) for last 3 games.
Hope he continues this to contribute more.
dragonsfanatic - May 13, 2009
Dome and Soriano are carrying this team right now.
And yeah, you’re right dragon, “multi-hit game” is pretty typical to say in English. Something like “Fukudome has had 3 straight multi-hit games.”
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
Maybe not having the attention of being the "new guy"
has helped Kosuke settle down and play his game. He is playing a great center field and right now, is the glue holding this thing together. Overall, I think he has one of the most complete games of anyone on the team.
Fishbone2 - May 13, 2009
So true
He is consistently producing for this team
jkobus - May 13, 2009
or
New born child………over seas from you
Surgery……………….ended the prior season early
New……………………country, people, language, foods, streets, driving on the other side of the road, traditions, work schedule, pregame routine (just to name some)
well, this was all detailed before, and I am glad he is playing as well as he is currently
www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/2/6/751539/fukudome
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
+1...
… i’d like to send anybody here to Japan to do the exact same job in a more highly competitive environment and see how they react.
Dome has done admirably.
AndrewJStone - May 13, 2009
or just to another state
with a new born child back home.
I guess the closest we can come to this would be Military, but the one advantage our military does have is fellow American soldiers on base with them, they are not loners.
And by no means is that a knock to our soldiers, I have nothing but the utmost of respect for them.
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
I'd use that phrase and english is the only language I speak :)
Madison Cub Fan - May 13, 2009
BTW Dragon
The other day I heard one of the Cub announcers refer to something as Texas league. That was the question you had a few days ago correct? I had never heard it before but had to chuckle when I did
Madison Cub Fan - May 13, 2009
right - "Texas hit"
We just refer it as “Texas hit” – “Texas Leaguer’s hit” is too long to say for us :-)
dragonsfanatic - May 13, 2009
You don't speak it all that well, though.
:)
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
well you not nearly as funny as you think you are
Madison Cub Fan - May 13, 2009
but i am as funny as I look
does that help any?
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
pretty sure he is funnier looking...
then he is funny
Madison Cub Fan - May 13, 2009
How do you know how funny I think I am?
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
good point
maybe you realize how unfunny you are.
giggling evilly.
Madison Cub Fan - May 13, 2009
And yet you can't stay away from the discussion
bwahaha!
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
stop it children
or I am going to turn this car around
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
Aw, dad . . .
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
dont makeme use the fly swatter
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
I love that Dome has
been able to contribute as he has. I have a feeling he is going to be good this season, and will continue to produce.
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
dome hitting the other way is just great hitting. i hope he keeps it up all year
drodd - May 13, 2009
So far in 2009..
… he is playing like the guy we thought we were getting last year. If he can do this all year, the Cubs have improved in a position without getting a new player.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
How great is it...
that everyone basically wrote him off in the offseason, expecting to have a well below average player, and now he’s basically one of the best players in the league?
kanderber - May 13, 2009
Shows you what someone can do when they are determined to succeed and work hard at improving.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
I didn't write
him off. I gave him the benefit of the doubt with all the things that were new to him last year. I am so happy to see him make those doubters look silly.
sue369 - May 13, 2009
i think we have to remember...
that only one Japanese player played really well his first year, and that was Ichiro. Other than that most of them have needed a year to adjust. i think this is the real Fuku we expected and will get the rest of the year and beyond.
Now i just need an autographed jersey from him and i will be a happy man!
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
exactly
they all had a bad rookie season, while making the multitude of adustments. I also believe in Dome’s case, changing his routine this season back to what he was accustomed to has been a hugh benefit for him.
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
Sharing Time With Reed
I believe the platoon system with Reed Johnson will keep Dome from wearing down in the second half of the season by cutting down some on Dome’s playing time.
memphiscub - May 13, 2009
This certainly wasn't Harden's best start by far.
His first start with 6 IP, 3 hits, 1 ER, 2 BB, 10 K was better. His starts against Cincinnati and St. Louis were probably better too.
Corey Patterson - May 13, 2009
It appears rich may be changing his pitching approach.
Not trying to strike everyone out and going deeper into games
cubswynn - May 13, 2009
I'm not sure that's necessarily true.
He still used 101 pitches to get through 6 inning last night. He has had fewer pitches to get through 6 this year.
Corey Patterson - May 13, 2009
I thought this one was better because...
… of the way he settled down and retired 14 in a row after the HR. A lot of pitchers might have blown up and been knocked out of the game early.
Numbers alone don’t tell the story of “best”.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
It was very similar to Lilly's start against Houston.
Corey Patterson - May 13, 2009
His game against Houston
was good also.. that last inning killed him though.
Unique - May 13, 2009
Anybody want to clue me in on how Lee did last night?
I missed the game last night because I went to watch the new Star Trek movie, so I’m pretty much going by the box score. I noticed he had 3 official at bats with three strike outs. Did he at least have quality at bats or did he look like he was still injured?
BTW, the new Star Trek movie was awesome for those who haven’t seen it. I don’t know anything about Star Trek and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
aznsensation - May 13, 2009
4 PA, 3K, 1BB
Looking lost and hacking away.
chilango2 - May 13, 2009
First game action in what, a week?
Everyone’d be hacking away too.
Allie - May 13, 2009
I'm just reporting what I saw while answering a question
chilango2 - May 13, 2009
His timing was certainly off
he was late on a few fastballs that were right down the middle of the plate
gwood - May 13, 2009
Definitely doesn't help to miss a week
and then face Peavy and his fastball.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
That's not a pleasant return
for Lee, being forced to face Peavy right off the bat, you are right about that.
gwood - May 13, 2009
It was also nice to see Micah provide a nice pinch hit.
cubswynn - May 13, 2009
Micah
seems to be adjusting to his role with this team quite admirably. We always knew he could hit, but could he succeed with limited at-bats? He is showing that he can.
gwood - May 13, 2009
So far, I have to say I'm impressed with Micah.
He’s done what the team has asked of him. I’d rather not see him in the OF any more, but otherwise he’s done fine.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
It's still fairly early into the season.
Let’s see if he can keep it up through the ASB.
cubswynn - May 13, 2009
Agreed.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
Totally agree.
Hoffpauir continues to put together good ABs. Gotta give the guy credit.
daver - May 13, 2009
Such a nice game to watch
Frustrating when Dome got left on third, but I’m guessing Derrek Lee needs another day or two before it becomes an issue.
Great to see the bullpen get outs and not walk guys. Rich Harden strong again, and beating Peavy. I could use more games like last night.
nji232 - May 13, 2009
DLee
hasn’t seen live pitching in several days. We have to give him more time to get back in the groove.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
A great quote from Milton
Explaining his " cup to the ear" bit.
“Nice to hear some cheers for once,” Bradley said. “I didn’t come here to suck. I know I’ve sucked so far, but give me some love, you know what I’m saying? I am a Cub.”
Yes your are Milton.
Doggie Stalker - May 13, 2009
I had no problem
with the cup to the ear. I figured it was meant to be in a positive way.
sue369 - May 13, 2009
Me too.
Unique - May 13, 2009
I only saw the highlights
but I thought that was funny.
Not a flip of the bird, just “hey, i can actually play, ya know” bit.
Allie - May 13, 2009
I'm glad to hear that was what he meant.
To me it seemed more like “Where are the boos now?” And he had a pretty grumpy look on his face too. I understand not jumping around and celebrating every home run, but he looked pissed afterwards.
At least he was all smiles welcoming Bobby back into the dugout after his bomb
El Borto - May 13, 2009
he said something about
how he doesn’t smile when he does well, because he considers doing well to be his job; whereas when a teammate does well, he’s overjoyed, especially for someone like Bobby Scales.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
I love that
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
The more Bradley talks
the more I like him and his attitude towards the game. Despite his problems in the past, he plays the game the way it should be played and has the right attitude about his “job.”
gwood - May 13, 2009
yep.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
Awesome!
sue369 - May 13, 2009
We discussed it when he had his 'interview' with MLB....
I’m glad he finally said what he should have said then. This is perfect.
JCD - May 13, 2009
Even if DLee still struggles
There aren’t many attractive options lower down in the lineup to move Lee down in order. Fontenot, Soto, Bradley all hovering in the .200s or thereabouts. And the booing has really gotten insane; it is fine for the fans to expect the Cubs to be playoff contenders every year when you have a payroll like we do, but you know, some years players underperform and injuries happen and post season isn’t in the cards.
BeltwayCubsFan - May 13, 2009
Move him down to the bench and let Hoff start. Simple as that.
kanderber - May 13, 2009
absolutely not
first of all, Lee cannot fix his problems riding the pine. Secondly, Hoff is not a front-line player. While I’ve been generally happy with his glove at first, he is not the player Lee is. Lee saves a LOT of extra-base-hits, and thus, runs.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
The difference in OPS is over 200 points.
That’s incredibly significant. With Ramirez out, the Cubs can’t keep trotting a failing hitter out there everyday when there’s a MUCH better option on the bench. I’m not saying give Hoff the everyday job, but at this point Hoff deserves the majority of the playing time.
kanderber - May 13, 2009
I think D-Lee's neck & back...
… are preventing him from hitting the way we would like to see him. A DL stint would help.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
Unfortunately
Derrek won’t go for that. Too much pride. I’m convinced that Lou will do what is best for the team, whatever that means
nji232 - May 13, 2009
or Lou
will have to force him onto the DL
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
Agreed.
At some point he and the team have to agree that he’s not helping the team by continuing to try to play through this chronic injury.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
once again
Lee cannot fix his problems riding the pine. This is the same reason why Soto is playing. Lee was on his first day back yesterday. He gets more time.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
Soto is playing because there isn't a better option
over the whole season Koyie hill is no better than a .225 hitter IMO. Hoffpauir might be better over the course of the season, who knows. Lee will get his time to work his stuff out, and I think he will get better. IF he doesn’t get better, Lou can take care of it.
nji232 - May 13, 2009
While I agree that Koyie is
no savior with the bat, I still wouldn’t mind getting him in there a little bit more often. Even if he got two starts every 7 or 8 games, I think would be good. And Geo could maybe use those days off to hop on the treadmill or the eliptical in the clubhouse and watch the game from there. Just a thought.
DamonBerryhillsMitt - May 13, 2009
Definitely
Anything that gets Geo sweating and shedding some pounds is good. You have a good plan of 2 or 3 every 8 games or so.
nji232 - May 13, 2009
I was going to say..
pretty much the same thing.
Except I would also just note that Koyie is one of the very few Cubs currently hitting over .300… I’m not saying he will maintain that, but he seems like a much better bet to produce offensively right now than Geo..
Geo should still get most of the starts because obviously he’s the one that has the greater potential if he can get it together… and as has been stated numerous times, nobody breaks out of a slump while sitting on the bench…
Now being in Australia I don’t get to actually watch more than about one Cubs game a month, so I must admit that I don’t have much of an impression about Koyie’s defensive skills and ability to call a good game behind the plate.. how far is he behind Geo in those respects?? Someone please enlighten me.
CubFanInCanberra (9387milesfromWrigley) - May 13, 2009
question is
how long to we go with who has more potential instead of who is producing? MLB level is about what have you done today, not what can you do next month
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
Plus
Isn’t Koyie throwing out more base stealers than Soto?
gwood - May 13, 2009
I agree
that was sort of my point, but maybe I didn’t go far enough in your opinion.
Right now it seems like Hill is starting less than once per rotation, and I was advocating maybe giving him ~2 starts per rotation. For now at least. It just seems like something Lou should be more flexible about, and I gather you agree.
CubFanInCanberra (9387milesfromWrigley) - May 13, 2009
i was agreeing with you and more or less
adding my 2 cents
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
I think Koyie does
a more than adequate job behind the dish. I know the pitchers seem to enjoy working with him as well. Again, I’m not advocating abandoning Geo, just trying to work Koyie in a little more, at least until Geo can find his stroke more consistently.
DamonBerryhillsMitt - May 13, 2009
and Blanco missed a month or more
last season with the same issue
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
should have said
same issue as Lee.
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
I don't really care about Lee fixing his problems...
I care about the Cubs winning baseball games. And right now, Micah Hoffpauir undeniably gives the Cubs a better chance of doing so.
Put Lee on the DL and then let him do a minor league rehab assignment to fix his problems. Our offense is bad enough as it is, the last thing we need is a cleanup hitter trying to “work out the kinks.”
kanderber - May 13, 2009
Giving Lee the chance to work things out
is better, long term, for the Cubs than making Hoffpauir the starting first baseman.
Lee doesn’t need to be on the DL. Lee doesn’t think so, and more importantly, the DOCTORS don’t think so.
Our offense is bad enough as it is? Did you watch yesterday’s game? Did you watch Sunday’s game? This offense is going to be fine. And part of that is Derrek Lee.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
D Lee
I would ask him to get a second opinion on the MRI as well as let a second doctor give some input. It is a practice of Medical Science, not a perfection. If he has the same problem with his neck Blanco did last season, he may need a long rest to allow it to heal well enough to be productive.
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
I'd bet
he saw more than one doctor.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
You're being ridiculous.
Lee wasn’t very good in the 2nd half last year, and he has been nothing short of terrible this year. He’s also soon to be 34 years old and has had some injuries the last few years. Maybe this is it for him? I don’t know. And the point is, neither do you. What we DO know, however, is that Hoffpauir has been superbly better than Lee this year — at everything, getting hits, taking walks, hitting for power, striking out less, etc.
Look, I like Derrek Lee. Always been a fan. But it’s stupid for the Cubs to continue to let him play the majority of the time when he’s CLEARLY not as good of a hitter as Micah Hoffpauir right now. When your team’s best hitter goes down for who knows how many months, you need to make up that lost offense somewhere. Who’s the better candidate to provide more offense? Lee and his 631 OPS or Hoffpauir and his 885 OPS?
kanderber - May 13, 2009
Hoffpauir has looked pretty darned good at the plate, and
I’m assuming Lou knows exactly what situations Hoff’s bat is best utilized.
Like Edmonds last year, Lou has Hoffpauir almost exclusively seeing RH pitchers.
In 54 AB’s versus RH and 8 versus LH, Hoff is .315/.367/.567/(.905 ops) and .250/.250/.500 (.750 ops). All 11 of his RBI’s and all 5 of his walks were against RH pitching.
Lee is scuffling against right handed pitchers and above career averages to date versus lefties. I don’t always agree with Lou, but to indicate he’s stupid for trying to give his proven All Star time to get things going and replace him with the less proven guy is pretty rough.
I believe using statistics padded by Lou’s usage of Hoffpauir in situations where it’s expected he will succeed as proof of your theory is flawed.
Lee, when healthy, is a proven commodity with a below market contract. When struggling, he is a big contract with a no trade clause.
The time to allow Lee to get on track is now. Sitting him and testing whether Hoffpauir can hit #1-#5 starters, righties and lefties can wait.
To say
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
Well that whole post is predicated on the notion that...
Hoffpauir can’t hit lefties. Which is flat out wrong. He can hit lefties just fine. In fact, his minor league OPS against LHP is a mere 37 points lower than against RHP (874 vs. 847).
kanderber - May 13, 2009
Well...
If prior years are being brought back into the discussion, then you have to compare Hoffpauir’s minor league stats with Lee’s majors.
So far, Hoffpauir has not proven he hits lefties “just fine” at the major league level. In his few appearances versus lefties (against major league pitchers), he has no walks, a much higher strike out rate, no walks and a .263 obp.
If Lee is still struggling with righties or injuries at the end of June, then Hoffpauir needs to see some front line lefties to see if he can contribute. To date, Hoffpauir’s MLB splits are vastly different than his minor league splits.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
Come on man, seriously?
Hoffpauir has had NINETEEN AT BATS against MLB LHP. You’re seriously going to make a conclusion based off of that? That’s absurd.
kanderber - May 13, 2009
What conclusion have I drawn?
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
Ugh.
Okay, then what is your point? Apparently I’m not getting it.
kanderber - May 13, 2009
I'm just reacting to your points that
playing Lee is stupid and Hoffpauir’s stats prove he’s good.
I question how much of that is how Lou is using him (Edmonds 2008) and how much is him? Is he Jack Cust or Chris Shelton?
My only point is Lee is a key part of 2009. The production expected from him based upon past production, his allocated part of payroll, and his NTC make him a vital and non-movable part of this team.
Setting him aside without giving him a run of games while healthy to get started makes Lee not producing probably self fulfill.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
Fonty
could be another example of how Lou used him last year
tony412 - May 13, 2009
this isn't
the minor leagues.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
The concern I have is that this disc thing is going to remain a problem...
he was mediocre to bad for most of last season, and he’s looked worse this season. It’s possible that he could bounce back. But it’s also possible that this neck problem will continue to affect his swing moving forward.
SouthernCub - May 13, 2009
It could, but
Lee and Lou both said it was good to go last night.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
I don't know
that Hoffpauir has been hitting “superbly better”. He’s being used, for the most part, in specific situations, and when he’s out of his depth, it’s clearly visible.
Derrek Lee cannot get better if he’s not given opportunities to. Riding the pine is not giving him opportunities.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
I always feel so validated when
someone agrees with me.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
I'll be honest
I cribbed a bit off of you. :D
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
Well, it's really not as simple as that.
There are, for lack of a better term, “human issues” in play here. For the time being, Derrek Lee will be in games unless his neck problem prevents him from doing so.
That said, when you watch DLee K three times and then see Hoffpauir come in and smoke a ball to right field, it’s hard not to start wishing Micah was playing more often.
daver - May 13, 2009
To be fair
Lee’s K’s were vs a very good Peavy that at the time was mowing everyone down….. Hoff’s hit was vs an average no name relief pitcher. Also, 1st game back for Lee in a while
tony412 - May 13, 2009
That's true.
Peavy likely would’ve owned Hoffpauir, too, though one wonders if Micah could’ve at least made contact against him. It’s also true that DLee’s timing is bound to be off because of his absence. Nonetheless, the heart will go where it pleases. (Wait, what did I just say?)
daver - May 13, 2009
agreed
and Lee has also been looking bad against the Peavy’s and the Cotts’ he has faced. I truly hope Lee can get it going, but I would say we are lucky to have Hoff who has done a better than expected job filling in for Lee.
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
which ought to raise the question...
…why did Lou start Lee at all? I think we’re all in agreeance that going up against Peavy on your first game back after some time off is not an easy task. So why not give him another day of rest?
ballhawk - May 13, 2009
Good question.
Especially since, for his career, DLee is 1 for 16 vs. Peavy – with 7Ks! I’m assuming baseball-reference has updated by now, so I guess that includes last night’s golden sombrero.
daver - May 13, 2009
In the interest of fairness
Lee struck out only 3 times, just obtaining the Hat Trick last night. Though if Peavy had remained in the game, I’m sure Derrek could have picked up the Golden Sombrero.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
Oh, is a Golden Sombrero four Ks?
I thought it was three.
daver - May 13, 2009
What do you get for 5
a shower?
tony412 - May 13, 2009
DFA!
daver - May 13, 2009
Yes, with Brain Giles.
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
Yikes!!
gwood - May 13, 2009
Yeah, it's four 4.
now, wikipedia gives us some options for 5 in a game.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
Lee easily
saves two or three extra base hits last night. I doubt Hoffpauir could have made those plays.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
The answer to that question is the same reason Lee is still batting 3rd or 4th in every lineup.
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
once Rami comes back
woudln’t you move Dome back to 2nd, and then Riot to 7th or 8th?
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
I don't know that I would
There was some discussion about this before that I agreed with. Theriot and Fukudome have been quite productive in the 2 and 3 spots in the order (until the last few games for Theriot at least).
When Rami comes back, I say put him 4th, Bradley 5th, Lee 6th, Font 7th, and Soto 8th.
gwood - May 13, 2009
sounds about right IMO
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
good batting order there
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
Thank you
but I can’t take credit for it. While I agree with it, someone posted a FanPost or fanShot about this some time ago.
gwood - May 13, 2009
Lou said during the pregame interview yesterday...
…that he prefers Dome in the two-hole, so we might see that.
daver - May 13, 2009
I'm sure there's a response in that somewhere, but today (and today only)
I’ll show some discretion.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
I really need to start writing "batting second in the lineup."
“in the two-hole” … “in the second slot”…even “behind Soriano”…there’s just no safe way to say it.
daver - May 13, 2009
i see nothing wrong with the two hole
err…wait, what did i say?
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
You really need to practice safe posting, this
rythm method you’ve been using is flawed.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
Are you booing Daver?
That’s not cool man. Just be honest with him. Ever since he reach that 20K milestone…….
tony412 - May 13, 2009
I know...
slacker.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
I don't respond well to boos.
I just threw a virtual water bottle at you.
daver - May 13, 2009
IF that means putting Lee back third, then I'm totally against that.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
Regarding the booing
and the argument that fans pay for a ticket, therefore earn the right to boo- How would this same argument translate to other professions? I’m a public school teacher; should students boo me on days, or moments when I’m not at my best, simply because their parents pay taxes.
Booing is boorish and counterproductive; Come on Cubs fans: Stay classy Chicago.
Slakkr - May 13, 2009
+1
sue369 - May 13, 2009
Ok... i'll take the hit...
… i’ll organize a giant booing of my boss at our 3:30 marketing meeting and report back.
And if he knocks the meeting out of the park… well… hopefully he’ll react like Bradley did. Because he doesn’t deserve it any more than Milton.
AndrewJStone - May 13, 2009
Will you make yourself...
available to the media afterwards?
We would like to know what was going through your head during the meeting.
HIGGY - May 13, 2009
dont forget to litter the meeting room
with garbage as well
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
Do you get raises every year causing my taxes to go up?
And make way more money than the avg person. Sorry but the teacher analogy doesn’t fit.
We are paying these guys salaries and if I choose to voice my displeasure then it should be okay.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
booers
The people who boo are the first ones to complain when a player doesn’t show up to the Cubs convention or sign autographs for them. I am not saying that fans should endlessly back their players. I am amongst the first to criticize bad play, but booing is not at all constructive as it can easily be construed by the players as personal. Having players on the team you root for is about having a player/fan relationship and when there is inane booing, well that just doesn’t promote anything positive.
dmlichte - May 13, 2009
Beautifully said!
CubFanSince1970 - May 13, 2009
Loved seeing Bobby
and Milton get homers last night. Soriano and Dome are doing their thing on a consistant basis. It’s exciting to think what this team could be with everyone healthy.
sue369 - May 13, 2009
We won't be seeing that for a long long time
nji232 - May 13, 2009
I didn't give
a time frame did I?
sue369 - May 13, 2009
MLB is not WWE
Booing will not help them entertain you. We do not have “good guys” and “bad guys” in Cubbie Blue. They are all Cubs and deserve to not be booed.
Want them to know we are upset, do not go to games, do not buy merch, get their attention in the pockets. But that will never work or happen, since one ticket left unpurchased, will be bought by another fan, no doubt.
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
Last night's game had pleasant shades of last season.
Even though the Cubs were down early, I felt pretty optimistic they would come back – even though Peavy looked pretty damn strong through most of the early innings. They also got good starting pitching (which, overall, I think has been a bright spot thus far this year) and good production from the bottom of the order. Like Al said, it was a total team effort.
Now, granted, it was against the lowly San Diego Padres, but, hey, let’s hope this series and the next one against Houston (who the Cubs have played pretty tough) will serve as momentum builders going into what will surely be another hair-pulling stressfest vs. the Cards.
daver - May 13, 2009
Ludwick got hurt last night for the Cards
pulled his hamstring. So, there’s a chance he’ll be on the DL and out for that series.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
So, he and Freel can play some euchre with the clubhouse attendants?
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
Basically.
With Ludwick, Freel (who may start tonight, BTW) and Otis Heilman, they just need a fourth.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
Wow, didn't know that.
Will Ankiel be back by then?
daver - May 13, 2009
Ankiel was placed on the 15 day DL on the 7th.
So they will be without them both for over a week
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
Ankiel is retroactive to the 5th
(I just saw it in an article), so he could be back on the 20th for the last two games of that series.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
T'anks trey
if I had to choose between Ankiel and Ludwick, I guess I’d rather face Ankiel.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
No problem.
It’s no guarantee Ankiel will be back by the 20th, either.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
I don't root for injuries.
However, I won’t be unhappy to see the Cardinals without Ankiel and Ludwick during the series next week.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
let em get healthy on the 22nd or after
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
Ludwick
has in fact been DL’d effective today, so he’s out until the last weekend of May. Ankiel
tony412 - May 13, 2009
Ankiel could be back on the 22nd
so just after the Cubs-Cardinals series is over. So prepare yourself to see plenty of Chris Duncan in the OF over those three games.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
Re: Chris Duncan
daver - May 13, 2009
While last night's win was against the lowly Pads
we did show the ability to score some runs off one of the league’s best pitchers, so that is definitely a good sign for our offense.
As Al said, it was really good to see Rich settle down after the first inning to record yet another quality start.
gwood - May 13, 2009
Beating up on bad teams
and taking your chances against the good ones is how you win divisions.
I’m not getting on your case, but I don’t pooh-pooh beating bad teams.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 13, 2009
I'm not poo-pooing
beating bad teams either, simply making the point that while the Pads are bad, we beat a very good pitcher.
gwood - May 13, 2009
Indeed
Particularly with the way he was pitching for most of the game, beating Peavy was no joke.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 13, 2009
Let's remember this...
…the next time someone pipes up and tell us that the Cubs only beat bad pitchers.
daver - May 13, 2009
+1
Not sure if Len or Bob, but they mentioned a few times, you will have very limited opportunities against him so you better take advantage when you do. They missed a couple times including Dome on 3rd no outs but made up for it with Bradley’s bomb.
tony412 - May 13, 2009
Of course, I loved the Cubs victory
but for the first six innings, that was an old-fashioned pitchers’ duel. Love those, too.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 13, 2009
Good discussions today. I like it, team!
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
I think we should trade for Jake Peavy
also we should move Soriano down in the order.
with that I’m off to take my second to last final.
nji232 - May 13, 2009
You forgot the obligatory Brian Roberts mention.
So, here it is.
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
I thought we traded Roberts
for Kenny Lofton.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
weather
sorry guys if this has already been touched on, but does anyone know what the weather is looking like tonight? think we can get the game in?
ryanbaker08 - May 13, 2009
Here you go
there’s a fanpost up on this very topic. Hope it helps.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
thanks
im kind of new to this site and dont really know my way around yet i guess.
ryanbaker08 - May 13, 2009
Welcome aboard
tony412 - May 13, 2009
No worries.
welcome to BCB.
Bill Potter - May 13, 2009
Glad to have ya
Cubbie-Tim - May 13, 2009
thanks guys
was at the game last night. first cubbies win! was at 2 games last summer including the bad weather night game vs the astros. never seen weather like that it was incredible. but both games last summer i went to we didnt score a run while i was there. great to be able to sing with the 30+k
ryanbaker08 - May 13, 2009
i love newbies that use the reply button!
welcome, ryan.
Allie - May 13, 2009
welcome ryan
sue369 - May 13, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
YES! A RYAN!
IS IT RYNE OR RYAN? CAN WE CALL YOU RIOT??
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
Only if he double-clutches posts
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
On her blog the other day...
….Carrie Muskat pointed out that the Cubs now have three Ryans – Dempster, Theriot and Freel.
daver - May 13, 2009
Now that is
earth shattering reporting.
I’m so impressed.
Allie - May 13, 2009
What a terrible sexist thing to say!
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
No
if I’d said “I hope her wig stayed on while she reported that groundbreaking roster news”.
That would probably be sexist. :-P
Allie - May 13, 2009
Not necessarily
guys can wear wigs too
gwood - May 13, 2009
She looked good doing it, though
;-)
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
Did she say if she used BR, BP, or FanGraphs for that one?
I’d love to figure out how to do this analysis on my own.
dtpollitt - May 13, 2009
Booing
I think the booing at Wrigley is partly the fault of management. Cubs management made some pretty idiotic decisions a couple of years ago and booing was the only weapon Cubs fan had to change things.
The Cubs had to boo Patterson because clearly he shouldn’t have been leading off. If it wasn’t for the booing who knows if Patterson would still be leading off for the Cubs.
Same thing with LaTroy Hawkins.
Jacque Jones was a horrible signing, exactly what the team didn’t need: a very average hitter who didn’t take any walks. Again, the only voice the fans had was the booing.
And let’s not talk about Dusty and his numerous mind numbing decisions
It’s entirely possible that we have seen two Cubs division champions in part because of fan booing. The negative aspect, of course, is that booing gets to a ridiculous point that normal slumps are not tolerated. That is silly. But a lot of the decisions made by management were silly too.
Luis - May 13, 2009
are you kidding?
you think the team traded Patterson because the fans booed?
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
Well sure
if you believe the reason he sucked was b/c he was booed.
Allie - May 13, 2009
Jayson Werth owns Russell Martin
I thought this was pretty cool. Last night Werth stole 4 bases off of him, three in one inning so, yes, home plate too. Video
Now thats what I call manufacturing a run.
tony412 - May 13, 2009
Saw that on MLB Network last night.
Awesome play. Just awesome.
daver - May 13, 2009
Stealing home was just plain mean
and awesome.
nji232 - May 13, 2009
Hank White
My roommate and I were trying to remember…Hank White was #24 and #9 with the Cubs? If that is correct, why did he change?
In the words of Roger “rocket” Clemens, I misremembered, and can’t find any pics online showing any number besides #24.
slocs55 - May 13, 2009
Yes, he was #9 before....
He changed it after struggling the first half of 2005, presumably to change his luck. (And he had a terrific 2nd half of the year)
carmen_fanzone - May 13, 2009
Thanks,
I knew it was #9, my roomate didn’t think so, I’ll be sure to let him know.
I hope they play tonight…
slocs55 - May 13, 2009
Didn't somebody write a book called "Cubs by the Numbers"?
Can’t remember who but you can get it at Amazon.
tucsoncubsfan - May 13, 2009
Did you forget the "I KEED" icon
or are you seriously not remembering?
flachimesa - May 13, 2009
I was kidding.
tucsoncubsfan - May 13, 2009
Tuesdays game
A good game to watch, good pitching and some nice hitting. Bradleeys HR was a monster. It silenced the boos. I liked his reaction of touching his hear to let the fans know he didn’t hear any boos after the HR, I wondered why Pinella choose to bring D. Lee back against Peavy/ Why not wait one more day andd let Haufpauir get some swings against Peavy? All said it was a good game to watch.
Papa zoo zoo - May 13, 2009
Great job at summarizing this
whole thread for us. I think you touched on everything.
tony412 - May 13, 2009
That's a good question
It looks like, even if yesterday’s stats are already included (and subsequently subtracted) that Derrek doesn’t hit Peavy well.
Linky
Shanghai Badger - May 13, 2009
SEIG HAUFPAUIR!
Lee batted because he’s got to get back in the groove at some point. If he can catch up to Peavy, he can catch up to anyone.
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
Al said " Booby Scales will never be a star"
Never…… Geez seems kinda harsh…. probably wont be a star I can understand…. however here is what he does have……. Desire, speed, youth and has proved he has more than warning track power…. just what are his weak points Al? Is he a below average fielder?…. Did he strike out to much in the minors? The majors are full of good players that were not projected to be stars. What would make you say never in regards to him?
LouPrules - May 13, 2009
Well, he is 31 years old.
Usually, if someone’s going to be a major league star, he’ll be in the major leagues before he’s 31.
He’s going to be a useful role player. I like his approach to hitting and his positive attitude. He’s got to be a real good clubhouse guy. Those are all positive traits.
Speaking of positive, I’m positive I didn’t call him “Booby”. :)
Al Yellon - May 13, 2009
Unless that someone plays second base in an organization that has gone out and signed veteran second basemen to large contracts for the last several years.
Eric Young, Mark Grudz, Todd Walker, Mark DeRosa
It’s only been in a marked absence of a true veteran ML second baseman that we’ve gotten to see Fontenot and Scales even get a chance to play.
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
Wait, wait, wait...
Besides Bellhorn, wasn’t there another second baseman in that mix? I thought he was pretty prominent.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
who?
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
You, of all people, can't remember?
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
I'm only listing the VETERAN players the organization brought in via FA or trade in the last 10 years.
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
I figured you would
remember that Theriot guy.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
But, if you are only targeting the VETERAN players,
Morandini, Neifi, Miles, Womack, DeShields, and Hairston need to be added to the 2B veteran scrap heap of costly debacle.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
I was merely pointing out the guys who got the starting nod because of their contracts.
Scales wasn’t going to get a chance while we were paying Grudz and Todd Walker to play 2nd.
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
Great game all around
I’m still waiting for Ascianos first appearance though. I’m excited for it.
wrigleyrocker12 - May 13, 2009
tentative lineup from Twittermeyer
Sori
Riot
Dome
Lee
Bradley
Fonty (2b)
Soto
Farney (3b and Color Man)
Lilly batting 9th again
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
Freel at 3rd, huh?
That… could be interesting.
Allie - May 13, 2009
finally get to see Freel
like to see another scrappy player.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
Agreed. We already have 3
short white guys (riot, fonty, miles), might as well have a 4th.
Neifi Puppy - May 13, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
yeah, scales can make it into the club with more playin time.
and also the superman dive.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
um....no....what's racist is the Cubs mgmt
slowly purging this team of Hispanic and African-American players when clearly the percentages of players in MLB shows a clear minority of white players.
How else do you explain picking up Ryan Freel? Why is he so special? Don’t tell me its because “he can play the outfield and infield.” That’s bunk.
Dump Miles and Freel, keep Scales, and pick up some real talent.
Neifi Puppy - May 13, 2009
wow, the cubs are racist for picking up Freel?
I love Scales and his story and want him to succeed, but he is not a proven major leaguer. Picking up Freel is good insurance when Aram went down. Can’t keep trotting Fonty out there.
Wow, I didn’t think you were actually serious with the racist charge, I don’t see it.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
I'm with you on the Miles for Scales.
As for Freel, I doubt he has anything to offer, but he’s here so let’s see if he brings anything before he’s sent packing.
N Oakley - May 13, 2009
Freel has plenty left in the tank...
He can still pick it in the field. If anything, Bobby will go back down when Rami returns. Freel is going to stick.
Jimmyeatworld - May 13, 2009
THEY TRADED MARK DEROSA AND DIDN'T TRADE FOR PEAVY....
so they could sign Milton Bradley.
Logic: 1
Neifi Puppy: 0
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
Blanco —> Hill
Lee/Ward —> Hoff
Gathright —> Freel
Z —> Wells
Patterson —> Harden
Cedeno —> Gone
Coincidence? Keep rooting for the white guys Santos!
Neifi Puppy - May 13, 2009
Love to see that field
Cedeno at ss, Patterson at 2b and Gathright in center. No…performance has nothing to do with it.
And Z is hurt, doesn’t belong in this convo.
KaliCub - May 13, 2009
Yes...
Blanco —-we’re playing Soto in spite of his slump
we’ve gotten rid of Lee (wut?)
totally should have kept Gathright or traded him for Carlos Beltran.
Z is hurt…we didn’t DFA him…he’ll be back
Patterson (see Gathright)
Cedeno —→ is terrible
Next.
santoswoodenlegs - May 13, 2009
You are off your rocker...
Jimmyeatworld - May 13, 2009
Hi!
Did you drop this?
drewishdrewid - May 13, 2009
RE " Bobby Scales"
Al……..Good point I didn’t realize he was 31…. Now the comment makes sense to me..
LouPrules - May 13, 2009
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