Go figure, right?
Sean Marshall, originally scheduled to start today (and the reason his picture wound up in the First Pitch Thread is because I had scheduled that one early, and forgot to change it), wound up as the sixth Cub pitcher of the day, threw three pitches, induced Lance Berkman -- who had launched a rocket onto Sheffield already in the ninth inning -- to ground out, and got the win when the Cubs bailed out the bullpen and defeated the Astros 5-4 this afternoon at Wrigley Field.
This recap was going to have a completely different focus until the ninth inning, praising Randy Wells -- who has now thrown 16.1 scoreless innings from the start of his major league career -- for his six-inning, four-hit, three strikeout performance, and Angel Guzman and Carlos Marmol for shutting the Astros down to set up Kevin Gregg, who closed ...
Whoops. That last part didn't happen. Gregg was horrendous today, there's no getting around it. In addition to Berkman's bomb, Carlos Lee homered and the only Astro who didn't get a hit off Gregg, Geoff Blum, got hit by Gregg, at which time Lou said, "Enough" and brought in Aaron Heilman. Heilman, a bit shaky (only seven strikes in 16 pitches), managed to get two flyouts and Marshall got Berkman's groundout with the bases loaded.
Many in the crowd in the bleachers were chanting, "Woody! Woody!" while Gregg was imploding, but that wouldn't have helped matters. Gregg had actually been pretty good over his last few appearances. I take issue with his postgame comment that "it wasn't a save situation". That shouldn't matter; Gregg dispatched the Padres easily with an identical four-run lead on Tuesday night. Maybe the four-day layoff in between appearances for him could be blamed, but Lou said in his own remarks that "if we need Gregg tomorrow, he'll be back out there." Lou also commented that he had a few words with a fan near the dugout after removing Gregg, upon which he told the fan, "You enjoy the game and let me manage the team", only, as Lou said, "in more colorful language".
Laughter followed, and the Cubs can afford that after the ninth-inning comeback, particularly satisfying off ex-Cub LaTroy Hawkins. Hawkins walked Bobby Scales -- Scales' hitting streak ended at six, but that walk was an outstanding at-bat, and all the Cubs needed was for him to get on base. Aaron Miles sacrificed him to second, and then I think everyone in the house was stunned to see the Astros pitch to Alfonso Soriano instead of putting him on. They must have told Hawkins to "let him get himself out", i.e. give him pitches outside the zone and make him swing at the bad stuff he often offers at. Instead, Soriano flared an 0-2 pitch into right field and Mike Quade sent Scales.
This was an aggressive, Wavin' Wendell type move, and the result, obviously, won the game. If Hunter Pence had made an accurate throw, Scales was probably an easy out. But Pence's throw was high and the Cubs won.
All the bullpen histrionics ruined not only Wells' fine performance, but also excellent outings by Guzman (who looks more confident in his own abilities each time out) and Marmol, who looked great today, as well as a nice day by Micah Hoffpauir subbing for the suspended Milton Bradley. Hoffpauir made a couple of nice catches in RF and slammed a two-run homer off Roy Oswalt to give the Cubs a 3-0 lead, right after Derrek Lee had a really nice at-bat and singled in the Cubs' first run.
Nevertheless, wins are wins, no matter how they are obtained. The Cubs' fifth win in a row keeps them half a game behind Milwaukee and in second place ahead of the Cardinals after the Brewers' 1-0 win over St. Louis this afternoon.
Be happy. But fix that bullpen!
0 recs | 442 comments
Nice game until the ninth
But anyway, who goes to the pen when Z comes back? I say Marshall because Wells has just been that good, and that way we can let Cotts go. Thoughts?
wrigleyrocker12 - May 16, 2009
Marshall has also been good.
He’ll start Thursday vs. St. Louis. If he does well — well then, it’s a nice problem to have, right?
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
He has but
Marshall is a lefty, who can get outs, unlike Cotts. He would be more valuable to the pen and Wells has been better than Marsh.
wrigleyrocker12 - May 16, 2009
Yabbut...
… how do you know Wells can keep doing this? Marshall, we already know, can start and do well on a consistent basis. If he is stuck in the pen as a LOOGY — and you know Lou will use him like this instead of as a long reliever — his talent is wasted.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
Great minds...
Clutch16 - May 16, 2009
Then insert him back
There is no guarantee Wells will continue, but if you don’t give him a shot how will you know?
wrigleyrocker12 - May 16, 2009
Wells can stick in the bullpen.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
But you'll never know
If he would’ve kept this up. That’s why I’m saying put Marsh in the pen for now. THEN if Wells does bad, he goes to the pen, or maybe even back down for Stevens, Reinhard, or Waddell.
wrigleyrocker12 - May 16, 2009
I dunno.
I just don’t see the point of disrupting the rotation which has done a good job so far.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
The rotation
has been the only dependable part of this team so far.
Allie - May 16, 2009
And why punish Marshall?
I mean Wells has been great, but I’d rather have the guy with the proven track record out there and has had a pretty good year himself. Wells can definately help us in the bullpen.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
you know based on his past performance, wrigleyrocker
The fact that he’s thrown 18 straight scoreless innings has very little correlation to what he’s going to do with his next 18. His minor league track record suggests that he’s not as good as Marshall right now.
David Patton could have thrown two scoreless starts too. The key word here is could. I don’t think anyone here would advocate that Patton should be starting games for the Cubs just to ‘give him a shot’
berselius - May 16, 2009
i dont think its proper to put wells and patton in the same sentence.. Patton has been total shit this year. Wells has not. If you want to be that way, lets send scales back to AAA and leave freel without question
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
We could all agree
that cotts should be removed. He hasnt been at all impressive in the games he’s played. Marshall and Wells sould both stay in the majors for sure. As for who is the 5th man, either one is impressive. I personally think we should give wells the start for now and move marshall to pen. If wells starts to perform poorly, then move him back, but if wells keeps up the way he’s been, it would be stupid to send him back down.
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Cotts won't be removed.
Not that he’s been any good, but he has zero trade value, cannot be sent to the minors without his permission and they won’t eat his contract.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
tis unfortunate
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
+1
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
But using Marshall as a LOOGY would be almost criminal
He’s well set up for starts or long relief – using him as a replacement for Cotts wouldn’t do his talent justice.
Clutch16 - May 16, 2009
So what?
Waddell it is?
wrigleyrocker12 - May 16, 2009
The question should be
Do we need a LOOGY? I think we can skate without one, but Lou apparently disagrees. Up to him, I guess.
Clutch16 - May 16, 2009
Lou doesn't know how to use a LOOGY anyway
why do we need a token lefty out there?
Allie - May 16, 2009
Maybe a 6 man rotation is a possibility?
it would certainly help the injury prone Harden, since Lou has indicated he wants to give him extra rest anyway. I dunno, just a thought..
ambrosiadreams - May 16, 2009
can the cubs support that with roster slots?
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
also, has that been done before? It would help keep them rested, but could also throw off rhythm at what not
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
I can't believe the bullpen has given away...
…two games that should be wins for Wells.
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
At least they won this one.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
Very true!
Heilman should still by him dinner and a cocktail seeing how he’s been involved in both games.
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
Gregg is the one that should be picking up the tab tonight for Wells and Heilman both.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
I said Heilman b/c he gave it away in Milwaukee...
…and blew the save today.
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
However...
… Heilman did get a pair of outs. That’s two more than Gregg.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
Ok, fine!
Heilman buys dinner, Gregg buys the drinks. Good?
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
For all of us?
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
Maybe an appetizer.
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
Yeah, today was on Gregg. No question.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
technically gregg blew the save
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
No, he did not.
It was not a save situation.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
meaning all 4 runs were greggs
and heilmann got 2/3 outs
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Right but a pitcher cannot
Create a save situation for himself.
Galvan316 - May 16, 2009
lol i know srry forgot it wasnt a save situation. Im just saying you cant blame heilman for making it a tie game, when gregg put all the scoring runners on base
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
i think we can
heilman’s job is come in when its nasty and get out of it w/o giving up runs.
both he and gregg stunk today.
Allie - May 16, 2009
no that is not what Heilman is good at
He is good or at least supposed to be good at long relief.
Doggie Stalker - May 16, 2009
i don't
know. Not the bullpen but only Gregg gave this one away, or at least tried to.
wild bill - May 16, 2009
That was a tiring win.
Low key until the 9th, then high stress, then pshew.
slcathena - May 16, 2009
Al, what was the reaction like in the ballpark when Gregg came out?
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
Loud, sustained booing.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
well deserved.
slcathena - May 16, 2009
I take full credit for Hoff's homer
A timely EA pic was all it took.
Clutch16 - May 16, 2009
And since sanantonecub was bragging about it
I’m celebrating with a Chimay Red.
Clutch16 - May 16, 2009
A win is a win is a win is a win
Cubs WIN!!!!!
fischisgod - May 16, 2009
agreed re: Gregg
Relievers have bad outings… Gregg’s gonna have to contribute to this team in order for it to be successful. The alternative is a major bullpen trade and thats unlikely to happen right now.
Scales would have been out easily had the throw not been so, well, Jacque Jones like. I was surprised how far up the line Scales was when the throw sailed well past the plate.
dmlichte - May 16, 2009
Said it before
Pence is not a good defender. I would always challenge him in that situation.
Clutch16 - May 16, 2009
Berkman's HR . . .
. . . didn’t make it on to Sheffield. The replays showed it clearing the bleachers, but landing on the walkway behind them and bouncing back towards the field. Not trying to nitpick, just to be accurate. :)
ErnieBanks - May 16, 2009
Boy, that walkway is wider than I thought.
Sure looked like it cleared it.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
Looked like it cleared it from my perspective easily.
jkobus - May 16, 2009
No way would it bounce back from the street to the stands
Not at that low of an angle, either
Shanghai Badger - May 16, 2009
Lets give Soriano some credit
0-2 for him usually results in an ugly stike out. It was good to see him go the opposit way to win the game. If he continues to go to right he will become a more complete/dangerous hitter!
muehlman - May 16, 2009
True.
It was nice to see him manufacture a hit in that situation.
slcathena - May 16, 2009
A little OT
But does anyone have vineline? I’m thinking of subscribing.
wrigleyrocker12 - May 16, 2009
I used to get it.
I think it’s more marketing for the Cubs’ organization than it is worthwhile content. Just read BCB, GROTA, VFTB, etc. if you want content.
dtpollitt - May 16, 2009
I get it, but only because...
… they send it automatically to season ticket holders.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
More OT
Two pitches into the game, and fresh off the DL, John Lackey gets ejected for throwing two pithes behind the Rangers leadoff hitter. These umpires need to chill the hell out!
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
No kidding
Blue has been out of control lately.
Allie - May 16, 2009
Umpires or Blou ?
Doggie Stalker - May 16, 2009
Haven't seen Blou much
the umps however have been everywhere lately.
Allie - May 16, 2009
He was here Mothers Day being quite the Red @ss.
Employee22 - May 16, 2009
verily
Emelie - May 16, 2009
A little rough on Sori, no?
Considering Soriano had a spectacular catch in the first and the game winning RBI, I wouldn’t have thought he would be taking shots after this game. How many game winning RBI does he already have this season? The guy has really been coming through for this team, so far.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
That wasn't a shot...
… it does happen. Fortunately, it didn’t happen today… that was a really good at-bat and yes, he has contributed big-time all year.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
It seems like a shot when you say he swings at bad pitches and gets himself out. Especially, when he just did the opposite.
This was a case where he swung at a pitch out of the zone and got the game winning RBI.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
Well, he does do that at times...
… and that’s clearly why the Astros didn’t put him on.
However, today he did good, as you said.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
Can you honestly...
…tell me you haven’t seen multiple flailings by Fonzie on curves and sliders no where near the plate? I have no idea why anyone throws him a fastball.
Kudos to him today for finally getting a hit on one….
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
All his homers aren't hit on fast balls.
He hit a game winning homer in the bottom of the 8th against St. Louis on a low slider on April 17th. I can’t believe how many Cubs fans just love to trash this guy, especially on a day that he has the game winning RBI.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
+1
Soriano has been our best player
fischisgod - May 16, 2009
I only dispute this
because I think Rami was better before he got hurt. But yes, Sori has rocked this year.
slcathena - May 16, 2009
Rami is always good
i respect ur
fischisgod - May 16, 2009
I'm not trashing him....
but, come on, he looks great at times and he looks foolish when he flails on the outside pitch in the dirt for strike 3.
He’s carried us, and today he had a huge hit, but surely you see the other side, don’t you?
He’s the most exciting/frustrating ballplayer out there.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
I know
Fonzie can be very frustrating to watch.
Allie - May 16, 2009
I guess I define frustrating differently.
Soriano so far this season in relation to other NL players:
Runs Scored 2nd
Extra Base Hits 2nd (tied)
Home Runs 3rd
Total Bases 5th
At Bats per Home Run 7th at 12.727
Does he ever fail? Yes, but this season he has been one of the most productive players in the league.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
He does seem more attuned to the game so far
Last year it seemed as if he were daydreaming out in LF
Emelie - May 16, 2009
No one's disputing that....
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
What is in dispute is does he deserve to get cheap shots taken at him when he has the game winning rbi?
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
It wasn't a cheap shot.
It was simply stating that the Astros pitched to him because they thought they could get him out instead of putting him on in an obvious intentional walk situation.
You can call that a “cheap shot”, but you’d be wrong.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
If that's what Cecil Cooper was thinking then Soriano proved him wrong.
So far this season Soriano has been the 4th best player in all of baseball in “clutch” situations. It was foolish to pitch to him with 1st base open and he showed them why. They guy may swing at bad pitches but he can also get hits off of bad pitches.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
That's kind of what I was trying to say....
… guess I didn’t say it very well.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
I thought you were clear
The Astros, not you, were disrespecting Soriano. They obviously thought they could get Soriano out by letting him swing at bad pitches. In the TV replay of the final pitch, the catcher set up quite low & outside.
ChipSet - May 16, 2009
Well, I didn't see it as a cheap shot....
I saw it as reality. The man does strike out on a lot of curves and sliders outside the plate. He does. I don’t see how you don’t see that.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
Considering his production it seems people put way too much emphasis on his failings.
I think it’s unfair to say the other team assumes he will get himself out when he’s been so good in “clutch” situations this season. I thought it was a cheap shot and that’s my opinion, you don’t agree and that’s that. I’ve actually tried to back up my point by giving what his production has been in the clutch as well as in comparison to the rest of the NL. I’m not giving strictly anecdotal evidence such as, “I’ve seen him strike out on bad pitches.” I can also offer up anecdotal evidence to support my belief, just off the top of my head, I can remember 2 game winning RBI hits that were on off-speed pitches outside the zone.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
He's a baseball player
even the best fail at least 6 times out of every 10.
I’ve seen great hitters like Alex Rodriguez get themselves out. I just watched a game today where 3 gaints (none of whom are particularly great, but still) got themselves out.
None of that is a “cheap shot”.
Allie - May 16, 2009
It was a negative context to a positive outcome by Soriano.
I’ve already made the point that most players fail more than they succeed which is why I think it’s a cheap shot. It seems unfair to me when someone claims that Soriano “gets himself out” when in fact he got a base hit, on a pitch outside the zone no less. . It’s a matter of context and when I see a positive outcome I wonder why it was prefaced with a negative. You could just as easily say, “once again Soriano proves to be a very dangerous hitter.” When given the opportunity to beat the opponent that’s exactly what he did any previous failings aren’t really relevant.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
I love Fonzie
He’s incredible when he’s on.. but when he’s off? he’s hard to watch.
Thats all I mean by frustrating.
Allie - May 16, 2009
+12
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
My point would be that he is "off" much less than other players.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
I don't disagree
All I was trying to say was that his off is uglier than most other players.
Allie - May 16, 2009
So far, yes....
but you have to admit that he is very streaky.
I’d love to see him not get into one of those funks this year. We need him more than ever.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
Sori made that work.
It wasn’t the best pitch, he wasn’t going to get a homerun. He just saw something he could hit and drove it to the right spot for a single. It was great.
slcathena - May 16, 2009
cubs
no ramirez or big z and the team is playing well.this is what needs to be done until the big guys get back. gregg??? makes you long for the dempster days. im sure this will be his 1 yr only with the cubs.
NOMAR - May 16, 2009
Hopefully it's not a full year...
kanderber - May 16, 2009
I've strongly disliked Gregg from the beginning.
Turtle from Entourage shouldn’t be on this team. It was a stupid idea to bring him over here and we should get rid of him before he destroys more games like this. I have 0% confidence in him when he enters a game.
dtpollitt - May 16, 2009
Hard to believe he's making $4.2M
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
YES THAT IS ALOT OF $$$$$
Given the fact that Cubs Mgt won’t admit they made any mistakes..( Don’t be upset if he stays around ) .
cubs north - May 16, 2009
And replace him with what?
Allie - May 16, 2009
i personally would prefer marmol, but he isnt the greatest this year. HOwever, hes been improving much more than gregg has. IF marmol gets back into the zone he was in the last couple years, I dont see why he should be the closer. Then we’d have a set up man problem which is easier to handle.. I will admitt that i am very biased toward marmol though so there might be a better option… Hows K Dub doing in CLE ?
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
WHERE'S CUBBIE TIM?
CAN I GET MY BOBBY SCALES JERSEY YET??
dtpollitt - May 16, 2009
Can I get in on the Scales Jersey biz?
slcathena - May 16, 2009
Here you go.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
Thanks!
slcathena - May 16, 2009
looks a little shooped just above the round part of the two
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
nvm i see what you did there al. tricky tricky. why not just make a customized jersey with his name/number?
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
What are you talking about?
That’s exactly what I did.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
no luck so far with my suppliers
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
Gregg had a meltdown....
….but, jeez, anyone remember the previous 6 outings he had? 2 hits, 4 saves.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
Still, an ERA over 6 just ain't cuttin it!
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
A reliever's ERA doesn't always mean much
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
WHAT???
Care to elaborate?
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
Sure, due to one bad inning a reliever's ERA can skyrocket.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
True, but over time...
…if he straightens things out, it comes back down. I hear what you’re saying, but Gregg’s stats don’t exactly blow me away. He gets into way too many jams
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
16 IP?
You’re expecting to be blown away by someone’s stats in less than 20 innings?
Alrighty, then.
Allie - May 16, 2009
Yes, I am blown away by his 4 homers and 10 walks
over 16 innings. You’re impressed by that?
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
Not particularly
Allie - May 16, 2009
agreed
fischisgod - May 16, 2009
Neither's Marmol's +4.00
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
Aaaaand...
the 6 outings prior to that? 7 hits, 3 walks, 1 save.
kanderber - May 16, 2009
I think you're overreacting
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
Umm, what?
What exactly am I overreacting to? You showed stats that suggest he’s been good recently… I countered with stats that suggest he’s been equally as bad recently.
kanderber - May 16, 2009
More recently, he's been lights out...
I thought, before today, he had turned a corner. You pulled up stats from the first part of the year. More recently he’s been solid.
But if people want to throw him under the bus again because he had one bad outing out of his last 7, that’s certainly your right.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
4 HR, 10 BB in 16 IP
These are hardly stats of an effective closer.
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
Like I said....
Last 6 outings have been exactly what we needed out of our closer. So, yeah, I thought he had turned a corner.
Maybe today was an abberation, maybe it was exactly what he is, but I’m choosing to believe Gregg is the closer we saw in the previous 6 outings.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
Do you honestly feel comfortable when Gregg comes in?
Because I don’t, and a closer should be lights out—ie, I should feel comfortable when he comes in.
slcathena - May 16, 2009
How many lights-out closers are there in baseball
Three or four, maybe? Maybe?
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
And even they get lit up once in a while
Joe Nathan blew a gimme save the other day.
Rivera went through a patch a week ago where he couldn’t get anybody out.
It happens. And it sucks.
Allie - May 16, 2009
Agreed
Technically, today wasn’t a blown save, but Gregg will blow at least one more this season. Anybody who finds that unacceptable better stop watching baseball.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
I'm pretty sure the DFA suggestions will be coming soon...
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
More importantly...
How many teams have a guy that their fans are confident in? A hell of a lot more than three or four.
And there are far mroe than 3-4 lights out closers, by the way. Rivera, Hoffman, Papelbon, K-Rod, Bell, Franklin thus far… that’s 6 off the top of my head.
kanderber - May 16, 2009
And they've never blown a save or looked like hot garbage?
Allie - May 16, 2009
NEVER!!!
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
I think Gregg has as many blown saves
as Papelbon and K-Rod and Rivera, no?
Franklin is not a lights-out closer. His track record is too brief to make a judgment.
It appears Hoffman might have some of the old magic back this year. We’ll see.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
To my knowledge, Papelbon has not blown any saves.
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
I think he blew one
earlier this month.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
Nope
Here’s his stats.
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
I sit corrected
Thanks.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
you are correct
here is papelbon’s line:
16 IP, 13 H, 10 BB, 19 K, 1.13 ERA and 9-9 Saves.
Gregg’s line:
16.1 IP, 15 H, 10 BB, 19 K, 3.86 ERA, 6-7 Saves.
Allie - May 16, 2009
Aside from the ERA
those stats look very similar.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
Except Gregg has allowed 4 HR...
…to Papelbon’s 1
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
Rivera has also allowed 4HR
it happens.
Allie - May 16, 2009
If you want to mold reality to shape your view of it
go right ahead.
Maybe you should take a sedative before the ninth inning. That might make everything better.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
Ouch!
Why r u hating on me? I’m just frustrated w/ Gregg, no need to snap at me.
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
And I think you're overreacting
Gregg and Heilman both sucked royally today… and we still won.
Winning ugly sure beats losing.
Allie - May 16, 2009
I didn't mean to single you out
I think most people are overreacting.
Either that or I’m completely under reacting.
Allie - May 16, 2009
Exactly
Closers blow saves all the time, and very few inspire confidence. Relax.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
Gregg's ERA isn't 3.86...
Today’s stats count in the discussion.
kanderber - May 16, 2009
ok kanderber
You are Lou or Hendry you have Gregg on the team…what do you do with him? He’s obviously not worthy to close.
jeff_pico - May 16, 2009
I don't know what you do with him now...
I never would have acquired him to begin with though.
kanderber - May 16, 2009
But we have, so what do you do now?
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
I posted what I had.
Allie - May 16, 2009
Beyond the blown saves stat
Gregg gives up late walks/hits/etc. too often for a closer. It will come back to haunt him. He does not inspire confidence. A closer should.
slcathena - May 16, 2009
Exactly!
Even when Gregg escapes the 9th unscathed, he makes the last inning a nail biter way too often.
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
Tough
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
You never felt nervous
when Woody or before him when Demps came in?
I did. We could have Cy Young on the mound and I’d be nervous in the 9th. B/c I’m always a bundle of nerves in the 9th.
Allie - May 16, 2009
I used to HATE when Demp came in to close...
Ugh.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
Wood
Wood had a few awful games like Gregg had today. I’m not sure if he ever blew a 4 run lead but tthere were games when he would be hitting guys, walking guys, giving up hits. No closer or relief pitcher can have great outings everytime out.
jeff_pico - May 16, 2009
There was a game at Wrigley last year agains the Brewers
Where Wood got light up like a Christmas tree with a 3 or 4 run inning in the bottom of the 9th. It was really early in the season and i believe that Wood hit the first two batters, walked another and Braun hit a bases clearing double or something like that.
Galvan316 - May 16, 2009
last year when marmol or KW would ocme to the mound in the ninth id pretty much turn off the TV; This year i bite my nails when i see gregg get called to the mound
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Well, that's an improvement
At least you’re not turning off the TV anymore.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
I remember you saying you were a new Cub fan…be glad you didn’t have to sit through the agony of some of the other closers in Cub history like Goose Gossage, Mitch Williams, latroy hawkins, not to mention 10 other guys who were all stars with other teams but sucked with the Cubs :(
Lee Smith and Randy Myers have been the only truly great closers the Cubs have had in my lifetime.
jeff_pico - May 16, 2009
lol
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Does the name
Bruce Sutter ring a bell?
bubbamike the one and only - May 17, 2009
That's not the point.
Nowhere near the point, actually.
Sure these guys blow saves from time to time. But they’re so much better than Gregg. Gregg is probably bottom 10 closers in all of baseball.
kanderber - May 16, 2009
Whatever
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
What a stupid post.
What’s the point of just saying “whatever?” If you’re really incapable of adding something more intelligent than that, then just don’t bother.
kanderber - May 16, 2009
whats the point of just commenting on his whatever?
if you don’t have anything intelligent to add, why bother?
and i don’t see your point because i don’t think gregg is that awful.
today? sure he was really really really bad… but tomorrow he might not be.
Allie - May 16, 2009
"Tomorrow he might not be"
Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a closer where your phrasing was “sure he was really really bad today… but tomorrow he’ll be fine like he has been all year” as opposed to “he might not suck tomorrow”
kanderber - May 16, 2009
sure that'd be great
every team looks for that guy.
we can win with gregg. and we did.
Allie - May 16, 2009
I wish I shared your positive attitude about him.
kanderber - May 16, 2009
One stupid post begats another
He has been fine for most of the year. I know every Cubs fan wishes every player on the team was a Hall of Famer, but it just doesn’t work that way.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
+1
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
Gregg has been far from fine...
for most of the year. What on earth are you talking about?
kanderber - May 17, 2009
he's been fine.
drewishdrewid - May 17, 2009
You're wrong. Again.
An ERA over 6 and a WHIP of 1.776 isn’t fine. It’s trash.
kanderber - May 17, 2009
+1, any confidence in Gregg is mind boggling
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
Every closer blows saves.
Gregg hasn’t been laser-beam tight. It’s a concern. But do you seriously think he’s going to be moved?
He’ll get his saves. He’ll help the team get to the post-season, and after that, it’s a crap-shoot.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
if his ERA is over 5 in July
I bet he will not be our closer.
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
I'll take that bet.
Kevin Gregg will be the Cubs closer for the full season. $20 to Project 3000. Do you accept?
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
I never said he wouldnt be
you said “But do you serioulsy think he is goign to be moved?” My response was I do think Lou would move him if his performance is bad over the next few months, he does have the track record to be unmovable. Plus we have a guy named Marmol. I will take teh bet that if his ERA is over 5 in july he is not our closer.
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
i personally think that right now marmol should be the closer, but marmol is my 2-3 favorite player so im a little biased.
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Marmol is more valuable
when he’s available in the 7/8 in “bases loaded no one out” situations
Allie - May 16, 2009
good point, i wish he were used longer though. I know Lou wants to keep him relatively rested but marmol had 3 back to back Ks in the 8th. If hes hot let him go back out and see if he can do it again. If not then play roulette with Gregg
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Marmol's performance
drops significantly when he’s used for more than one inning. We saw that happen last year, when he flamed out.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
Marmol in more than 1 inning
is bad.
3 outs is enough from him.
I hate when they use him more than 1 inning.
Allie - May 16, 2009
like he coulda flamed any worse than gregg did today. However i understand what you mean and will concede to keeping marmol a set up guy.
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
are you kidding?
Do you remember that game, where suddenly, he couldn’t even throw it NEAR the plate? The bad throw to first, lots of walks… they didn’t hit any home-runs off him because swinging the bat at balls three feet off teh outside corner is useless.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
srry i worded that poorly. I wasnt saying that marmol can be shitty. Ill agree taht marmol has had his share of bad days. what i was more refering to was Gregg was pain to watch today, and in hindsight they shoulda left marmol in or used another pitcher. No offense intended
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Ok, Done
IF Kevin Gregg’s ERA is over 5 and IF he is moved out of the closer spot before Aug 1, I will pay Project 3000 $20. IF Kevin Gregg’s ERA is over 5 and IF he is NOT moved out of the closer spot by August 1, you will pay Project 3000 $20. If his ERA doesn’t go over 5, the bet’s off.
I call for a witness.
I’m collecting quite the collection of bets on Gregg’s performance this year. :D
And by the way, I totally don’t want Marmol to be the closer. Who will come in with two on and no outs in the bottom of the 8th, when we’re up by one? Guzman’s not ready to do that yet.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
Guzman has shown amazing improvement, especially since he’s come back from tommy john. If he can keep improving he could be a setup man
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
He could
If he could become the backup setup man for Marmol by July or August, that would be amazing — we could use Guzman when Marmol had pitched hard the day before.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
he could be
but he’s not ready yet.
he’s still getting used to coming out of the ’pen. let him get comfy before you throw him into the fire.
Allie - May 16, 2009
totally agree
i was just saying. it sounded like you werent giving him enough credit though
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
I love Gooze
He’s got sick and nasty stuff. He could be a huge key, if he’s healthy.
But let the guy get used to the role before you make his part bigger.
Allie - May 16, 2009
TWSS
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
what does
TWSS stand for. I’m new to BCB so the acronyms are kinda confusing to me
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
that's what
she said.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
That's what she said.
its from the office, i believe.
just a fun way of making things sound way dirtier than they were meant. :-P
Allie - May 16, 2009
lol. all those other threads make sense now.. lol
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
rofl drew!
Emelie - May 16, 2009
lol that was a really good one.
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
lol
i didn’t even see what i said.
Allie - May 16, 2009
But let the guy get used to the role before you make his part bigger.
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
i guess you could actually take that whole quote if you wanted to stretch it a little
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
off topic: is that your dog in your picture, its really cute
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
yep
thats my Ginger. She’s adorable, isn’t she?
She’s my buddy.
Allie - May 16, 2009
FYI
Ur pic is just a red X
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
that was to cubsfaninwisconsin
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
thats weird it shows up for me
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
must be my computer
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
the original file was like 2.7K by 2.7K so that might have explained it i changed it to be smaller just in case
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
shows up for me
but i have no idea what it’s supposed to be.
Allie - May 16, 2009
a blue guy
batting in front of a red C.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
really?
that… is not what i thought.
but, thats why we don’t trust me on pictures. :-P
Allie - May 16, 2009
lol drew got it right
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
agreed Drew
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
DC
I offer the same bet at Drew
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
we had one last season
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
don't you remember
Woody blowing the first game? Or how many games he blew later in the season?
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
Dempster and Wood
both blew their share, hell Bruce Sutter and Lee Smith blew games
IT HAPPENS
relax everyone
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
true. But woody rebounded and had a great year. I
i hope Gregg does the same, but nothing so far as led me to believe that the case espically after looking at Gregg’s #s last year.
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
And there was nothing to suggest
that Woody would rebound and have a great year either. There were NO numbers.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
And a lot of people around here
were raising holy he11 about Wood after his early meltdowns.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
Gregg and Woody
had REALLY similar numbers last year. And Gregg was on a worse team.
Allie - May 16, 2009
Except for the walks.
Gregg walked twice as many hitters as Wood in a similar number of innings. That’s asking for trouble.
Al Yellon - May 17, 2009
it is
but it’s also clear that Gregg was able to overcome that trouble, since all his other numbers were so close.
I’d love for him to reduce his walks.
drewishdrewid - May 17, 2009
Wood was pretty good last year
That’s my problem.
slcathena - May 16, 2009
but early in the season
he wasn’t. Remember?
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
Joe Nathan is probably one on that list
And he had trouble last night against the Yankees as well.
Galvan316 - May 16, 2009
I have been the last 6 games he's pitched, up until today...
And there are few “lights out” relievers around anymore.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
Jeez
From some of the comments on here this afternoon, you’d think that the Cubs lost this game.
I
Galvan316 - May 16, 2009
stay VERY clear of the game thread...
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
I'm sure there was plenty of ledge jumping there.
Al Yellon - May 16, 2009
it actually wasn't as awful as you'd think
well, it probably was. But it had room to be worse.
Allie - May 16, 2009
I just scanned some of it
Not a pretty sight.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
I wasn't there, but did a glance of the "big innings" both good and bad...
like I do all games I miss. I wish I were surprised.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
it wasn't ledge jumping it was facing an ugly truth: gregg
Emelie - May 16, 2009
YES.....
But you were still able to put your W flag up right ????
cubs north - May 16, 2009
yes and that's the sweetest part of the whole game :D
Emelie - May 16, 2009
I missed it all
I was watching the score on my phone, and saw 4-0 in the bottom of the eighth, and then 4-4 in the top of the ninth and said to myself “the board must be committing seppuku with a blunt keyboard.”
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
Should folks be happy when thier team blows a four run lead in the ninth?
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
of course not.
but we did win.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
I know. I'm just sick when people get upset over posters venting a little
when things aren’t going well, I mean what the heck is wrong with that as long they don’t say anything inappropriate or insulting
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
what isn't going well?
we’ve won, what, five in a row? We’re 1/2 game back on May 16th with our best hitter out, Lee is finally starting to see the ball, Soto looks to be improving (albeit slowly), Bradley is coming along quite nicely, we have Bobby Freakin’ Scales and Micah Hoffpauir picking up the slack, and Alfonso Soriano is hitting opposite-field singles to win the game.
Yes. Gregg blew the save. Yes, Heilman was shaky. But Guzman pitched well, Wells pitched very well, and if relief pitchers were really all that great, they wouldn’t be relief pitchers.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
reason to be happy
we gave up 4 not 5
sure the pen blew a lead, but the rookie has looked damn good in his two starts. no need to dwell on a victory IMHO
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
When Z returns
we have six solid to very-good pitchers, any of whom can go into the rotation.
That’s a GREAT problem to have.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
I love it
6 man rotation, allowing Z to PH with bunts five out of six games
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
agree, but were not supposed to comment on the fact we blew a four run
lead in the ninth. Despite all the other positives you mentioned, that is not good, and people have a right to bitch about it.
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
If it becomes a habit
then it’s of real concern. EVERY closer has bad days.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
agree, but the bullpen ERA is something to be concerned with now.
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
On and on it goes ...
I swear, if Jennie Finch were standing naked in front of some of you guys, you would bitch that she had a pimple on her rear end.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
big legs on her
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
Indeed
Yes, indeed.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
the pimple iss off center
AUGH!
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
so you disagree with Al's above post
ending in “fix the bullpen”
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
The problem with the bullpen
revolves more around the consistency of Cotts and Heilman than it does around Gregg.
I think Piniella and Hendry in the process of addressing that. Ascanio already is up, and I suspect Wells will be in the pen when Zambrano returns.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
to a point.
I prefer to look at it this way:
If we can be seven games over .500 without our best hitter AND the bullpen being shaky, think of how well this team will play when Rami’s back and the pen is settled!
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
amen, assuming that the rest of the team continues to perform the way they have been(excluding the bullpen) Also, thank god our rotation is doing its job. Hats off to Wells who has been an amzing sub to Z
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
+1
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
Very well said!
There really is a lot to be happy about today — including the bullpen as you pointed out — and the fact we’re on a 5 game winning streak; going for a perfect (rain-shortened) homestand tomorrow!
However, while I admire optimism, you have to admit this team’s bullpen clearly has flaws that need to be corrected. Both Heilman and Gregg have showed ZERO consistency. Even when they do finish innings, it seems more often than not, they’re walking a batter here or giving up a base hit there.
Is it time to panic? Of course not. But it’s certainly something to be concerned about. Just sayin
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
I recognize that the pen has issues. I’m not going to worry if Gregg walks a batter every time he comes out in the ninth.
The only stat that matters is Wins.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
also Patton and cotts. thankfully they arent used often. I cringe whenever i see one of those two warming up in the ’pen.
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
How many fans of any team
are perfectly content with their bullpens, do you suppose?
I’m guessing that number is pretty small.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
I will thanks for the heads up
Galvan316 - May 16, 2009
oh goodness it wasn't that bad
Emelie - May 16, 2009
oops meant for Sue
Emelie - May 16, 2009
I'm glad I wasn't
in there then today.
sue369 - May 16, 2009
No joke.
I’m reading this at the equivalent of 5AM my time (just flew from San Francisco to Philly), and I didn’t sleep on the plane at all…so I might just be tired and whatnot. But dissent is apparently very much not welcome in this thread….
:)
CubsWin!Oregon - May 17, 2009
I think that Bobby Scales pic above....
….would look great with a superman cape on it.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
light the beacon!
Allie - May 16, 2009
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
thanks!
i couldn’t find it.
Allie - May 16, 2009
9th inning aside ...
It was great to see DLee hitting, even Soto contributed, and Guzman looks stronger every game. Much to cheer. If only we could figure out the pen.
Emelie - May 16, 2009
I still like
gooze – marmol- gregg.
and less heilman if at all possible.
Allie - May 16, 2009
Gooze has been impressive, would love to see him keep going...
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
Heilman is good for LONG relief
That should be his role.
Doggie Stalker - May 16, 2009
He has improved every single outing
And that is impressive as hell.
jkobus - May 16, 2009
I think people need to remember that this team
Has seen injuries hit: Bradley, Marmol, Lee, Ramirez and Zambrano and have had virtually zero production from Bradley, Fontenot, Soto and Lee yet this team is only .5 games out of first place.
The way people around here are starting to act you’d think the Cubs havent won a game all season.
Too those people who where chanting “Woody” at the game or on this site. You either baseball stupid, blind or both because Wood right now for Cleveland has a 6.00 ERA 5 Saves so explain to me how Gregg who coming into today had a 3.86 era and 5 saves is worse the the crap that Wood has does so far?
Galvan316 - May 16, 2009
correction
Galvan316 - May 16, 2009
There is a lot of over reaction positive/negative on this site...
…but that’s just part of the blog growing and i think a broader audience , some of it is related to fans’ expectations for the season, maybe more so the latter.
I don’t think fans are stupid for wanting Wood here, he was a special player for Cubs fans and many wanted him re-signed. In terms of in the moment chanting Woody, some of that is ignorance and some of it is related to Wood being the face of the franchise. I haven’t looked at either pitchers’ stats, but apparently both are struggling at times this year. I’d still prefer Wood on this team but at the same time it’s counterproductive to remind Gregg of that during the game.
DudeVf11 - May 16, 2009
Kerry Wood is on the Cleveland Indians
No amount of wishing, whining, bitching, moaning, complaining is going to change that fact. Its over. He had a decent run but its over.
Galvan316 - May 16, 2009
Careful
I said the same thing and was told off for “throwing Wood under the bus”.
Allie - May 16, 2009
Allie
I’m sorry people talked to you like that. Because I sick and tired of the whole “BRING BACK WOOD AND DEROSA!” crap that seems to be blossoming on here on a nightly/daily basis.
Those players had a great run here, but they are Indians now. and so far this season Neither would have done squat on this team right now.
I think the little things are important in baseball as much as any other sport. How about that close ball 4 call in the 9th with Scales at the plate? That won the game right there for our team.
Yet since it wasnt DEROSA it doesnt matter ?
Galvan316 - May 16, 2009
+1
wild bill - May 16, 2009
It is counterproductive to cheer "Woody" during the games.
But saying that Scales’ AB doesn’t matter to fans seem like an over reaction. Scales has been a great story and the fans appear to be totally behind the guy.
DudeVf11 - May 16, 2009
sorry but, that pitch was pretty high
not that close of a call. Agree with rest of what you say.
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
Gregg
Gregg just didn’t have it today, it can happen to even good pitchers. We’ve all seen Marmol go out there and stink up more than a few times. Hopefully he can get back to being good, he had been very good in the month of May up to this point.
All in all a win is a win and tomorrows game of Harden vs Mohler screams mismatch…lets keep it going!
jeff_pico - May 16, 2009
didnt we lose last game against mohler? if so that was also when the cubs couldnt hit for shit, but this time may be different
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
We ran Moeller after 1 and 2/3 the first time we faced him this season.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 16, 2009
first time in my life
i’m hoping for a repeat! LOL
Allie - May 16, 2009
gotcha, culdnt remember the pitchers lol
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
HOFF POWER
I WANT TO SEE IT IN THERE E V E R Y D A Y !
nimblenikelfoos - May 16, 2009
no you don't.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
between him or lee, ill take him until lee his healthier/able to do more offensively
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Lee
drove in the first run today, didn’t he?
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
one RBI doesn't change the fact he has sucked this year
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
sucked is over reacting
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
pleez, he was hitting under .200 before today
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
injured does not equal sucks
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
im not saying hes bad, i just think if hes injured he should rest. hes obviously been pretty mush no good lately. Until he can return to full health (and therefore full potential) i think hoffpauir should get more playing time since he hasnt screwed up at 1B and hes one of the best hitters on the cubs so far this year
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
I agree with that
I like Hoff, and do want him to play often. I refuse to agree with people saying Lee sucks, since being injured and fighting thru it is not the same as sucking.
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
I understand he has been injured, I didn't say he sucks
as a player, but his performance this year, irregardless of the reason, has sucked.
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
actually, yes you did
you said he sucked this yer, which is not correct. Injured is not sucking.
Either he is injured and his injuries are keeping him from producing, or he sucks. You cannot say he sucks, but is not a sucky player because he is injured, that is a direct contradiction of yourself.
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
And how do you account for the suck
he had the second half of last year. Was he injured then too? Whatever the reason (age, injuries) he has sucked this year. I only hope it does not continue.
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
you keep discrediting yourself
you say in one reply he sucks, the next he doesnt suck beacue he is injured, then return to Lee sucks. Please go make up your mind, adn come back with one opinion.
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
well you had already decided what I had said so why fight it.
Anyway, I meant his performance has sucked this year. I agree its at least in part due to injury. Though for you to claim its all due to injury is insane, you (nor I ) know why his performance has been so bad since the second half of last year. I personally think he has lost a good amount of bad speed in recent years. Again, I think D Lee “sucks”, his past season he is /can be a great player. But a this stage of the game his is not that.
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
I believe his numbers are a combo of two things
1. playing thru an injury (with a neck problem or back problem, he will have to do that the rest of his career
2. he is not as young as he once was, age means some decline.
Does he suck, no. Is he not the same as we have grown to expect, yes.
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
meant to say "I don't think DLee "sucks"
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
actually
IIRC, he WAS injured last year.
We all hope it doesn’t continue. Today was a good sign.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
i don't remember that? What was it?
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
same neck issue
he is playing thru now
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
well that is a real concern then
he is a fighter I give him that. And I still think his defense is better then anyone in the league.
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
would you agree with me to change sucked
to been inconsistant? that seems more like what has been his problem.
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
ok, I'll go with that
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
finally
its settled. i was gonna have to get Al in here and separate you two
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
I thought we kept it civil
disagreement is good, otherwise this site would be boring
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
true
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
lol i know, but it sounded like it could have gotten violent if it conitnued. Maybe i just read it that way.
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
i dont think so
since not once did we drop into the name calling, personal attacks
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
lol k then i stand corrected
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Nah
that wasn’t ugly at all.
Now Drew vs Blue Mike: Those get ugly.
Allie - May 16, 2009
and sadly can be
quite entertaining at times
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
Not to me
I hate them and leave.
Allie - May 16, 2009
lol. Or any debate on brew crew ball involving the brew and the cubs
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Thats why its evil BCB
Allie - May 16, 2009
you think so?
I guess. usually he says something completely off the wall and/or inappropriate, I say something in response, and he never replies.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
No
not Blou, old blue mike… ’member the “where ya sittin at wrigley, lets take it outside” stuff.
that was ugly.
Allie - May 16, 2009
they're the same guy
but I wasn’t the one who had that conversation with him.
BLou = BlueMike.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
i know they're the same guy
but mbdniu or whatever was much nastier than the current blou is.
i’ve found blou to be reasonable for the most part and ignorable when he’s not. i never had that with mbdniu.
Allie - May 17, 2009
wow
a debate ending in agreenace….wow! what has happened to BCB
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
he's been injured
and tried to gut it out. He had to take some rest.
He put bat on the ball and got a hit, drove in a run. That’s his job, and he’s starting to do it. Meanwhile, he continues to make plays at first that Hoffpauir can only watch in respectful silence.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
You keep saying that about Micah's defense....
….but he IS NOT a bad first baseman. Not up to par with Lee, but he’s no Mo Vaughn over there, either.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
Hoff looks to be about average in the field
which is fine by me. If Lee cannot get healthy, Hoff will be a big asset to us
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
Average at first
Below average in the OF.
Doggie Stalker - May 16, 2009
Below average in the OF.
but not the worst we have seen at the same time
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
Jacque Jones...
Paging Jacque Jones to the airport courtesy phone.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
Brant Brown
you are wanted at the front desk, Santo wishes to have a word with you
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
Jones...
…his arm was really awful but he looked pretty good range wise. Especially considering he was being made to play out of position (CF) for nearly a full season.
bikemonkey - May 16, 2009
on hoff
the cubs dont need to worry about hoff’s outfield capabilities personally. We have soraino, johnson, and fukudome which are the best starters for the cubs, personally. They also have Bradley, who is showing some life nwo at the plate, and Freel, who has yet to prove himself. Yes Hoff plays OF below avg, but hes a good back up at 1B which is where the cubs need him more anyways. I know Hoff isnt the ideal 1B, but not eveyrone can have Pujols. He does just fine for the cubs, plus his batting is superb thus far.
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
No, I'm not suggesting he's terrible.
Not at all. Hoffpauir would probably be a starting first-baseman for Pittsburgh, Oakland or Baltimore.
however, Derrek Lee makes some amazing plays, that Hoffpauir could not.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
+1
Jimmyeatworld - May 16, 2009
JIMMY!
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
TIMMY!
Jimmyeatworld - May 16, 2009
yo, Jimmay!
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
drew...
Jimmyeatworld - May 16, 2009
and I'm not doubting your last point...
but when you say:
That’s suggesting he’s horrible. Maybe that’s not the way you meant it…shrug.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
He's not horrible
but Lee’s a gold glover for a reason.
Allie - May 16, 2009
as long as his
neck does not cause him any trouble making plays.
not saying he is not a great fielder, which has been his trademark, but an injured neck does change what can be done
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
not horrible
merely average, and I believe that this team cannot content with an average glove at first base.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
Not with the stink
around the rest of the IF.
Allie - May 16, 2009
Actually, none of those teams.
I’ve never been a big Adam LaRoche fan, but he’s the same age as Hoff and has a much longer ML track record; I don’t think Hoff has any more upside, and a lot more downside. The Orioles have been playing Aubrey Huff there and he seems to be hitting well (don’t know about his defense); again, a proven veteran who can definitely hit. Oakland has this guy named Giambi who probably won’t hit above .260 for a season again now that he’s old and off the juice, but even when he’s slumping he draws enough walks that it’s not a total loss. Hell, even if Giambi doesn’t get on track all season they’ll probably keep running him out there, rightly or not. And they can’t DH Giambi (or, hypothetically, Hoff) without having Jack Cust stand in the field somewhere, which makes children cry.
There might be some teams that Hoff could rightly start for, but I doubt there’s one where he’d be handed a job straight-up. He’d have to compete for at-bats just about anywhere.
aldimond - May 17, 2009
well
obviously they all have players who start first base for them. I’m merely suggesting that if they DIDN’T have a first baseman, Hoff could play for them, that’s all.
drewishdrewid - May 17, 2009
hoff was also last years Bobby Scales.. Granted Hoffpauir wasnt int he minors for 10 years, but the cubs gave him a chance around the end of the season so they could rest a couple starters and now he a very active member of the roster. If bobby can do what he has been doing then mybe he should stay too; the only question would be who should leave, but only itme will tell
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Actually Hoff was up in May and June...
and got sent down because of roster issues, then came back in September.
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
I overslept by about five...
…hours and missed the game. What did Dome do today?
LeSaboteur - May 16, 2009
not much?
He had a walk and scored on Hoff’s homer
jeff_pico - May 16, 2009
Thanks.
I saw that his BA was ten points lower, so I didn’t think it was one of his better outings.
LeSaboteur - May 16, 2009
who oversleeps by five hours?
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
ah, I remember the days
when i could do that.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - May 16, 2009
faster than a speeding plane!
see how quick I am?
Emelie - May 16, 2009
I could have gotten it done sooner...
but my wife was so “thankful” for the housework I did today….wink wink.
santoswoodenlegs - May 16, 2009
rofl!
Emelie - May 16, 2009
TMI, Chad, TMI
dtpollitt - May 16, 2009
But Cobras don't fly.
LeSaboteur - May 16, 2009
Scales on a Plane!
santoswoodenlegs - May 16, 2009
LOL
LeSaboteur - May 16, 2009
its Super Sub
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
did you guys call him
“the Substitute” during the thread today?
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
i wasnt in it much, had a bunch of paperwork to do, spent the day at work (AUGH)
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
ouch, burn.
did you see my email?
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
si
and replied
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
we'll make millions
on your coffeetable book.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
Awesome SWL, thanks!
carmen_fanzone - May 16, 2009
Just got home from the game
I am now 2-0 at Cubs games this year, glad I got a W after that horrid 9th.
Al said most of the things I was thinking on the way home in his recap. One thing I want to bring up again is the booing of your own players, I just dont get it. They obviously know they arent doing well, how is booing going to help? IDK just sitting in the bleachers around a bunch of too drunk people booing Gregg after he has been solid as of recent really irked me.
Also, D.Lee – While he did have a nice RBI there, he does not look good or comfortable at the plate.
jkobus - May 16, 2009
I don’t mind people booing Gregg when he was that horrid. What else are the fans supposed to do? golf clap?
jeff_pico - May 16, 2009
IDK
Its just something that bugs me. But it was instant booing. Like the minute that first HR left the park there was some booing. Just something that irks me personally.
jkobus - May 16, 2009
yes booing after the 1st HR is a bit much but once he’s pulled from the game a little booing is no problem.
jeff_pico - May 16, 2009
would be funny (imo)
if a pitcher had a bad game, and instead of booing the entire crowd stood and turned their back to him instead. Not sure how that would be perceived, but would be different and unique
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
+1
Awesome, It would take a lot of coordination.
Reminds me of that study where people stand in an elevator facing the back and people that get on do it just to feel normal.
jkobus - May 16, 2009
that would take a lot of work
but it could be done I bet
Cubbie-Tim - May 16, 2009
I booed Gregg in the game thread. sheesh I hate to be reminded so vividly of Howry.
Emelie - May 16, 2009
I think booing Gregg after his performance today
was justifiable. It was well-deserved.
But a lot of the booing taking place at Wrigley these days isn’t.
I don’t subscribe to the never-boo theory, but a lot of fans are going overboard.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
didnt they boo when he was called into the game? i thought i read that somewhere. if thats the case that doesnt help at all.
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
they boo'd gregg when he was announced on opening day
that remains ridiculous.
Allie - May 16, 2009
If that's the case
it’s asinine and ridiculous.
I like how this fan base is not tolerating being “loveable losers” anymore. It’s long overdue. But the other extreme is just as nauseating.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 16, 2009
lol im a bears fan so ive developed a tolerance for losing
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Forgot to add
Either in the 7th or 8th time a lady got thrown out. Now I was in right center and this lady was in left center. But near the end of the game Carlos lee was starting to get heckled a lot. And so the whole left field bleachers were all standing and cheering. I look over in time to see a woman in the third row from the front turn around and flash the whole left field bleachers, only to get get thrown out less than 30 seconds later. Reminds me of how interesting Wrigley can get during day games.
jkobus - May 17, 2009
cards lost 1-0 to SUPPAN
how do you only score one off of suppan?
Allie - May 16, 2009
haven't
we done that? :D
The Cards are in a bit of a tailspin. I weep no tears. :D
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
me neither
but brewers have the vibe of “no one believes in us”…
Allie - May 16, 2009
thats because no one does believe in them :) but I will say they have sorted out their bullpen finally after about 10 years, but that offense is all or nothing and it will cold sooner or later.
jeff_pico - May 16, 2009
Maybe
but the “us against the world” team happens every year. the rockies in 2007, the rays last year… lots of examples, you know.
Allie - May 16, 2009
in that case we need to introduce the Cubs to BLou…give em some motivation :)
jeff_pico - May 16, 2009
demotivation perhaps...
Emelie - May 16, 2009
BLou is the ultimate non-believer in the Cubs so if that strategy works go with it……in fact maybe that could be secret behind this winning streak :)
jeff_pico - May 16, 2009
I don't get it either
That being said, if the Cubs do tomorrow what they did today, I’m sending them the bill for my triple-bypass!
salparadise23 - May 16, 2009
They actually scored 0, no?
cubsfaninatl - May 16, 2009
lol yea he has a pt. the brew won, giving up 0 runs. Hart got a Solo HR off cards.. lolz
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Yeah the Cards are struggling…poor pitiful cards. I hope they keep it up :) and don’t break out of it until about Friday.
jeff_pico - May 16, 2009
wow
i’m really dumb.
:shame:Allie - May 16, 2009
lol it happens (to some of us) :P
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
I'll just attribute it to the fact
that its pretty much impossible to score 0 on Suppan, so your mind tricked you.
cubsfaninatl - May 16, 2009
losing to suppan
is mind boggling.
imean, i know it happens… but he’s awful.
Allie - May 16, 2009
lol i love suppan
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
You heard it here first...
Alfonso Soriano is showing much better plate discipline, has not been streaky, and is getting hits in crucial situations where he might have struck out before. He is heading for the NL MVP. Wait and see…
Jimmyeatworld - May 16, 2009
Did Pujols go down today or something?
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
lol i was thinking the same thing. If pujols keeps doing what hes been doing, he deserves the NL MVP
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
If the cards don't make the playoffs
i don’t see Pujols winning again.
But Fonzie, if he keeps the bad streaks to a minimum, should def be in the conversation.
Allie - May 16, 2009
MVP or not
It’s nice to have a player that Wrigley crowd can chant “MVP” for starting in August.
ak123 - May 16, 2009
Just for comparasion sake:
Gregg 2008 with FLA:
68.2 IP, 51 H, 3 HR, 37 BB, 58 K, 3.41 ERA
Wood 2008 with CHC:
66.1 IP, 54 H, 3 HR, 18 BB, 84 K, 3.26 ERA.
Gregg doesn’t have the great BB/K ratio, but really, they aren’t that much different, IMHO.
Allie - May 16, 2009
that is interesting
I think Gredd’s second half #s were really bad?
DC Cubbie - May 16, 2009
Wow!
In 16 innings this season he’s already given up more HR
calicubfan - May 16, 2009
The walks.
That jumps out of those numbers. Twice as many walks in a similar number of innings. That is just asking for trouble from a closer.
Al Yellon - May 17, 2009
That walk/IP ration is trouble for any pitcher
Thinking about Piniella’s aversion to the BB, it’s actually a bit surprising that they’d acquire Gregg in the first place.
Shanghai Badger - May 17, 2009
I'm watching the
replay on CSN right now. Nice to know we do win. Sounds like it’s good I missed the game threads today.
sue369 - May 16, 2009
I didn't think they were *that* bad.
They’ve definitely been worse.
Allie - May 16, 2009
Agree...they really weren't that bad... we all grokked the 9th as well we should
Emelie - May 16, 2009
Eh, I've been
stressed to the max this week so it’s probably a good thing I wasn’t in there. I will be in tomorrow though. :-)
sue369 - May 16, 2009
hope things calm down for you, Sue.
I hope to be in for the later innings tomorrow. Can’t participate as fulsomely as I did last year, alas. Miss you guys (and the Cubs!!)
Emelie - May 16, 2009
Thanks Em.
Glad you will be able to be with us tomorrow. We miss you too.
sue369 - May 16, 2009
Completely off topic
but i was wondering why the cubs ridded themselves of the blue/red hats and now only role with the blue/blue ones
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
Less confusion...
is what I remember hearing. So whoever has to pack the uniforms and hats doesn’t mess up the road/home hats. Having just one hat was supposed to make it easier I guess…
Dayton Cubbie - May 17, 2009
I find that hard to believe . . .
The equipment manager should be responsible for making sure that only the correct hats are even in the lockers.
Shanghai Badger - May 17, 2009
You're right it is a ridiculous excuse.
I heard Len talking about eliminating the road caps earlier in the season and he said it was to make it easier on the equipment manager. Not sure why it would be so difficult for him to pack the road hats with the road uniforms, that certainly doesn’t seem difficult or confusing. I also think it’s strange they eliminate a hat when they are normally trying to market as many different products as possible. Personally, it doesn’t really matter to me but I do think the red billed caps looked better with the road greys.
Acapulco Taco Pie - May 17, 2009
man, that is pretty lame excuse
its not that confusing. Maybe I should apply for that job
DC Cubbie - May 17, 2009
Non closing situations
Is it just me or do the Cubs have a harder when their closers try to finish non-save situation games?
I know Dempster had real problems doing that and I remember Wood having 1 or 2 bad outings the same way. Gregg was no different. Closers must have a different mentality about these innings?
Regardless we were able to get a happy ending at the end of today so I guess we call this one a wash?
ak123 - May 16, 2009
Check the splits.
Wood did slightly better last year in non-save than in save situations. You’re right on Demp, though. He did a little worse in non-save spots in ’05, then a lot worse in ’06 and ’07. Hard to say if the amount of information there is statistically signiifcant, though.
aldimond - May 17, 2009
anyone see?
Rich Hill started for the Orioles today. Went 5 2/3, got his first win of the season. Pitched pretty well. 2 walks, 7 hits, 2 runs, and six strikeouts.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
the cubs actually gave orioles a decent player? lol
CubsFanInWisconsin - May 16, 2009
so bird poop really is lucky?
CubFanInCanberra (9387milesfromWrigley) - May 16, 2009
I could really SWEAR I hit reply on that one!
CubFanInCanberra (9387milesfromWrigley) - May 16, 2009
guess so.
If Rich Hill has a banner year… well. I’m happy for him, but I wish he could have done it for us. Be interesting to see what he can do.
drewishdrewid - May 16, 2009
Non-save situation
Since it was a non-save situation, maybe Lou should have had Heillman on the mound and warmed Gregg in case Heilmann got into trouble. Some closers thrive under pressure of coming in with men on base.
The way Guzman pitched, I’m not sure why Lou took him out after just one inning (in which he threw about 7 pitches).
danimal15 - May 16, 2009
You've got lunatics complaining about Marmol being abused
Wanna throw Guzman in that pile, too? Then it would get really unbearable around here.
Maybe Heilman would have been good to use, but Gregg already was warmed up. That’s the problem sometimes when a lead goes from a save to a non-save situation in the bottom of the eighth. The closer already is ready to go, and it’s often too late to get up anybody else.
Not Bruce Froemming - May 17, 2009
I don't think worrying about Guzman's arm is on anyone's radar...
(well, on the board, at least; surely Cubs coaches are keeping track of everyone)
He has pitched more innings than any other reliever on the staff this year. He doesn’t have a ton of appearances, which is probably a little more important, and he’s been pretty efficient (i don’t have pitch-count numbers, but he’s just third among Cub relievers in batters faced).
Anyway, I agree with you. Complaining about Lou’s bullpen management today is silly. He put the right guys out there and one of them just couldn’t make any outs. Maybe he stuck with Gregg too long, but… even that’s tough to say. You don’t start warming up another pitcher when your closer gives up a leadoff home run to a great hitter. Maybe the opportunity to take him out sooner was getting hit with the line drive. That’s arguable. I think Lou having some faith in Gregg is better than the alternative.
aldimond - May 17, 2009
just get rid of Cotts!
I don’t care who they keep in the rotation as long as they send down Cotts. I hated him last year and needless to say the why he’s performing this year is not making me change my mind any.
Mars10 - May 17, 2009
I dont think they can...
send down Cotts that is
Dayton Cubbie - May 17, 2009
I'm now 6-0-1 on the season
I’ve seen some pretty good games.
Soriano HR in the 9th at Miller
Lilly’s opening day no no flirt
Aramis’ walkoff homer
Soriano’s walk off hit
cubswynn - May 17, 2009
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