There's no way to sugarcoat this, so I'm not even going to try. Aramis Ramirez dislocated his left shoulder last night diving for a ball at third base in the third inning. The best-case scenario has him out for four to six weeks, so we'd likely see him around the All-Star break. Worst case is that he's out for the year. We should know more after he has an MRI today in Milwaukee.
No sugarcoating, as I said. A-Ram is the Cubs' most dangerous and consistent hitter and comes up big time in game-changing situations so often that we come to expect it, even though that's not a realistic expectation. You can't replace that kind of bat, and his glove has also become more consistent during the almost six full years he's been a Cub. There's no comparable event in recent team history -- the only one that's even close was the knee injury that Corey Patterson suffered on July 6, 2003, when he tried to beat out an infield hit during a 4-1 loss to the Cardinals. Patterson was off to a good start, with 13 HR and 55 RBI and an .839 OPS in 83 games, but he missed the rest of the season. Ironically, this injury directly led to the acquisition of A-Ram (and Kenny Lofton), because Jim Hendry probably would not have made that deal had Patterson not been hurt, and the Cubs likely would not have won the NL Central in 2003 without those two.
A-Ram, obviously, is headed to the DL. The Cubs acquired utilityman Ryan Freel from Baltimore yesterday for the nearly-useless Joey Gathright (how does Hendry get Baltimore to take all our rejects?), so Freel may get some of the playing time at 3B. But here's what I'd do, at least for a week or so to see if it works. With A-Ram on the DL, Bobby Scales will likely stay with the Cubs instead of returning to Iowa. Why not play Scales at 2B and Mike Fontenot at 3B, at least vs. RHP, for a week or two? Scales seems hungry to prove that he belongs in the major leagues, and his pinch-hit triple last night showed some hustle. Lou likes that. Maybe this horrifying injury will provide an opportunity for a player who's been buried in the minor leagues for a decade to produce. No, I'm not saying Scales is a Hall of Famer nor is he a long-term solution. But maybe he can give the team one good month. Freel can play vs. LHP.
It's way too early to speculate about whether the Cubs will try to acquire a bigger bat; a lot depends on the prognosis for Ramirez. If he's out six weeks, that's bad, but there would still be half a season left when he returns. Despite losing to the Brewers 3-2 last night, the Cubs remained only 2.5 games behind the division leading Cardinals, who also lost. About the game, little needs to be said except that Aaron Heilman, who's been pretty consistent this year, got himself in trouble by walking 8th inning leadoff hitter Corey Hart on four pitches. The two-run, game-winning HR by Ryan Braun was almost predictable after that. It ruined what might have been a saving-grace storyline from this game, Randy Wells throwing five shutout innings in his first major league start. Wells got himself into several jams, allowing five hits and two walks, but got out of every one of them, striking out five. Incidentally, what's wrong with this paragraph from the cubs.com game recap?
Wells labored initially, stranding four runners on base in the first two innings and throwing 42 pitches in the process. He stranded two more in the sixth but picked up the efficiency, and he finished throwing 84 pitches in five innings, allowing no runs on five hits.
"Stranded two more in the sixth"? How can you do that when you throw only five innings? He must have meant the third; that's the only other inning that had two runners on.
Finally, keep in mind that the Cubs have reached this point in the season -- 16-13 and 2.5 games out of first place -- with virtually zero contributions from Derrek Lee, Milton Bradley and Geovany Soto. If those three will step up and produce the way they are capable of producing -- and Bradley had a good game last night, with a tumbling catch where the ball wound up in his bare hand and his third homer of the season -- the loss of Ramirez' bat won't hurt that much. This is still a good team and Cub teams under Lou have stepped it up when key players were injured (as they did last year with Alfonso Soriano out for extended periods). I have confidence they can do that again this year.
0 recs | 255 comments
i feel ill just reading the title of this post.
buckmulligan - May 9, 2009
Soto needs to step up
and Lee is needed in the lineup- need to shake the neck thing and get to it.
Hate to say it, but DeRo would look good right about now…………….., hell, Santo would good right now!
tommy veryzer - May 9, 2009
Heilman consistent?
I was at the game last night and sat amongst a group of Cub fans. When Heilman took the hill, we wondered what was going on. Worse, we knew the Cubs were doomed, because Heilman proved what we knew. He couldn’t throw strikes! That situation screamed for Marmol last night.
mondello58 - May 9, 2009
Marmol had the day off...
and rightly so we cant use him everyday. He shouldnt have pitched the day before but he Chad Fox experiment failed.
MikeOxbyg - May 9, 2009
Except that Marmol pitched BEFORE Fox came in...
carmen_fanzone - May 9, 2009
Right.
And the score of that game was 4-2 at the time, so it was the right move.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
It was Gregg who shouldn't have been used because of Fox stinking up the joint...
I guess my question is: Who pitches the ninth last night if Braun doesn’t hit that homer?
carmen_fanzone - May 9, 2009
Gregg.
He threw only 9 pitches on Thursday.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
How dare you interrupt the armchair managing with
facts!
rlpete - May 9, 2009
Either way, Marmol had the day off and couldnt be used.
Sorry I hadnt had my coffee yet..
MikeOxbyg - May 9, 2009
The walks...
by our bullpen are killing me. Part of me wanted to see Lou go out there a blow his top after Heilman threw the first ball into the dirt after the walk. Throw a darn strike make him get a hit it cant be that darn hard!
I thought Lou over managed that 8th innning w/ the bases loaded. I dont have the matchup book like Lou does but the way Geo has been I dont think that was a spot to put him out there and suceed.
I still hope that as the weather heats up so does our bats.
MikeOxbyg - May 9, 2009
At the very least...
Rothschild should have been sent out to calm Heilman down after throwing the wild pitch. Someone fell asleep at the switch there.
mondello58 - May 9, 2009
I hate matchups
almost as much as you guys hate my stale “Match Game” jokes. Classic overmanaging. If it was me, I leave in the guy with the .400 OBP to face Stetter, regardless which side Stetter throws from.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
You dont think the Ramirez deal was separate from Pattersons injury?
I mean, afterall, they’d been searching for a third baseman for decades, so I wouldve hoped they wouldve made that deal regardless of CP’s injury.
But this is a dark morning indeed
bren - May 9, 2009
Patterson knee injury more significant than...
DLee’s wrist injury vs the Dodgers a few years ago? You must have had a senior moment Al.
As a frequent alzheimer’s victim myself—i can identify.
What a miserable turn of events—arguably the player that hurts the very most to lose. Freel can play
3rd—but that turns this squad into a few too many might mites…I second the emotion on missing DeRo along about now.
cubfever7 - May 9, 2009
I think he meant in relation to the team contending
I dont know that that team, what was that 05?, had as much of a shot as this current one. Thats the way I took it anyways
bren - May 9, 2009
Well...
… maybe they’d have gone after Ramirez later, who knows? But that deal was made imperative by Patterson’s injury.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
Sad sad day
for the Cubs and Cub fans everywhere.
Absolutely, Lee, Bradley and Soto HAVE TO STEP UP or we are doomed for this year.
In the post-Steriod era we just don’t have the guys on the bench who can step up and carry a team. Too bad jake Fox can’t play a competet 3B!
Let’s Go Cubs!
CubFanSince1970 - May 9, 2009
Why not?
Call up Fox and give him a shot? Especially if the offense continues to struggle?
mondello58 - May 9, 2009
he can't play third
not well, at least
elgato - May 9, 2009
Or hit anything that isn't a fastball
Old Style & Ivy - May 9, 2009
Don't forget about Soriano
He’s more the type to “carry a team”. We sure need it now.
tony412 - May 9, 2009
he's hitting under .100 with runners on
he is not, nor has ever been the type to carry a team. He’s a very good complementary player, but he will not put a team on his back
BoVandy - May 9, 2009
that's crap
he’s carried the team before. He’ll do it again.
drewishdrewid - May 9, 2009
Bovandy has forgotten
Soriano’s tendency to get into stretches where he’ll hit six homers in a week.
Old Style & Ivy - May 9, 2009
Possible third baseman trade targets?
Oddly enough, our frequent trading bedfellows the O’s have both Wigginton and Melvin Mora. I can see Mora liking Wrigley.
Unfortunately—the Royals are contenders and are probably not as likely to part with Teahen as they seemed to be in the offseason. They have a number of 3rd basemen as do the Rockies, Angels and Brewers.
My guess is that no move will be made until the standings shake out a little more in other divisions—so for now we may see healthy doses of Bobby Scales doing his best George Reeves imitation on the basepaths.
cubfever7 - May 9, 2009
When Gordon comes back the Royals might be willing to part with Teahen
but not for absolutely nothing. And Hendry has a hard time making trades unless they are completely onsided, or is trading junk for junk
BoVandy - May 9, 2009
I'm in KC and listen to a lot of sports talk radio.
They were actually talking about the Cubs’ off-season interest in Mark Teahen a few days ago. Callers and the radio guys all agreed that Teahen is way too valuable to the Royals to let go. I wouldn’t trade him if I were the Royals front office.
dtpollitt - May 9, 2009
Teahen's problem in KC
is that when the rest of their roster is healthy, he’s not a better option than the other guys they’re committed to. Callaspo is not leaving Teahen room to go back to the 2B experiment. So, the Cubs may be able to offer enough in value to make trading him worthwhile; I just think it’d be easier/cheaper for us to go after Huff or Beltre.
DGU - May 9, 2009
There should be a number of 3B available eventually if we decide to go that route.
Adrian Belte, Scott Rolen, Garrett Atkins, Aubrey Huff, and Mora as you said.
DGU - May 9, 2009
One can only wonder what a hot Beltre could do..
at Wrigley. The Mariners are still playing .500 though and that division looks winnable by almost any team. But he gets paid a fortune and if ARam comes back in a couple months—neither plays any other position.
cubfever7 - May 9, 2009
YOU SIR ....
Are 100 % right …….They have to step up …and now ….
cubs north - May 9, 2009
Missed Opportunity
It was the top of the 8th inning that lost the Cubs the game last night. A chance to put up a crooked number and pad a 1-run lead with the bases loaded and 1 out, and they get nothing.
THAT has to change for this team to be winners again this year – they’re blowing a lot of scoring chances. It’s still early, and they get a bit of a pass considering they haven’t been playing at full strength. However, I would argue that because they’re not at full strength, they have to maximize their chances.
Need a good start from Demp tonight against Milwuakee’s one good starter.
Canadian Cubs Fan - May 9, 2009
Lack of Production
As an earlier poster remarked, we need Soto, Lee, and Bradley to step up. Their lack of production has really hurt. Bradley and Soto with only 4 RBIs apiece after 29 games!!! If Lee continues to struggle with physical problems, call up Fox and have him split time with Hoff. I realize that Lee appears to be a low key guy but his approach at the plate is hard to understand right now. He looks like an old man swinging an axe that is too heavy for him.
ceegeewow - May 9, 2009
Exactly.
If someone had told me that through 8 innings of work Randy Wells, Angel Guzman, and Aaron Heilman would have given up three runs between them, I’d have rejoiced. The lack of offense is to blame for the L last night.
Goodie1969 - May 9, 2009
We're 0-12 this season when we don't score 4 runs or more...
carmen_fanzone - May 9, 2009
Most teams have records like that in such games.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
How so?
I doubt MOST teams are “0 for” in games which they score <4 runs. Maybe “2, 3, 4, 5, 6, for”, but not 0 -12.
Clutche - May 9, 2009
It's mostly luck
Winning games where you score less than 4 runs is more luck than anything else. Even when your pitchers have great stuff your team can allow four runs if there are a couple of seeing eye grounders and a hard hit ball strung together somewhere. Al’s right that most teams have really bad records in games in which they score less than four.
Old Style & Ivy - May 9, 2009
0-12 is mostly luck?
I suppose you think the Cubs haven’t won a WS in 100 years because of a goat too. Luck says you win a game or two in those types of situations. Losing all of them points to extremely poor execution in the clutch
BoVandy - May 9, 2009
It's twelve games
Any record in twelve games is mostly luck.
Old Style & Ivy - May 9, 2009
or clutch hitting, shut down relief pitching and tight defense to name a few...........
things that have nothing to do with luck
Clutche - May 9, 2009
All of those things
Have to do with luck. You hit a rocket line drive you have, at best, a little bit of control over where it goes. You hit it right at the third baseman, it’s an out. Hit it two feet to his left and it’s a double. If the bases were loaded when that happened, that’s a two or three run swing, and it’s all about luck.
Clutch hitting is not a skill. Hitting is a skill. The difference between hitting in the clutch and hitting at other times boils down to luck.
Old Style & Ivy - May 9, 2009
You have no luck............
when it comes to posting anything that resembles logic
Clutche - May 9, 2009
Look
Do you want to talk about baseball, or do you want to insult me?
And if you want to talk logic I would go look up “ad hominem fallacy.”
Old Style & Ivy - May 9, 2009
I was talking baseball.............
which is not a game of chance
Clutche - May 9, 2009
Baseball isn't a game of chance?
So what is it then when a guy hits that rocket line drive right at a defender rather than two feet to his left or right? Do you think it’s actually possible to control a batted ball to that level? Or when a guy hits a broken-bat blooper that drops in for a hit? That’s not luck?
Old Style & Ivy - May 9, 2009
nevermind.........
you don’t get it
Clutche - May 9, 2009
Then explain it to me
You’re making it hard to have a productive conversation.
Please, tell me how those things aren’t luck.
Old Style & Ivy - May 9, 2009
And claiming baseball skills are luck..........
is by your definition
Clutche - May 9, 2009
is by your definition ad hominem fallacy
Clutche - May 9, 2009
Clutche, do you ever wonder
Why you have trouble getting along with people on this site?
Whenever someone disagrees with you, you resort to personal attacks, and you think that “you don’t get it” is a conclusive argument.
Old Style had a legitimate response, but since it didn’t agree with you and you had no logical response, you chose to get personal. I’ve seen time and time again where this has happened, and the other party keeps cool in not responding in kind, until you push hard enough.
You continue to act this way, despite people pointing it out to you, and then you wonder why you are “attacked”.
I have no idea what kind of person you are in real life, but on this board, you are rude, pompous, argumentative and sanctimonious.
Baseball is indeed a game of chance. Old Style was not implyling that skill wasn’t involved, but luck plays a part. When Pete Rose crushed a line drive off Lee Smith in 1984 that richoched off Smith’s body and turned into a double-play, did that mean Smith threw a good pitch? Rose did a bad job of hitting? I don’t think even you are so thick-headed as to believe so, but you seem to feel that it’s easier to try to discredit someone than to argue merits. At some point, something that you wrote suggested that you were in your 50’s or so — ironically, your tone is incredibly juvenille.
I imagine you’ll respond with something along the lines of, “I know you are, but what am I”, because that’s what you seem to do best. Which is too bad, because it’d be nice if you actually reflected on the comments and possibly treated people with more respect. Probably too much to expect, but here I am trying again.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
I did not attack him personally, which you accuse me of doing often........
I said his POSTING was not logical and that baseball is not a game of luck/chance. Dice, spinning tops, playing cards, roulette wheels or lotto are games of chance, not baseball.
Are there isolated instances when luck is an influence? Sure, but as a whole baseball is a game of skill. To suggest, as he did, that any record in twelve games is mostly luck has no logic as I rudely, pompously, argumentatively and sanctimoniously pointed out.
Unless I’m confused, and I apologize if that’s how you see it, but a personal attack would have been something like…“You’re a moron if you think baseball is a game of chance.”
Clutche - May 9, 2009
Perception becomes reality
Clearly, others have seen this. Fair or not, this is the reputation that you seem to have built.
You might not be trying to come across this way, but the reality is, that’s how you are coming across, to lots of people.
Maybe you didn’t mean to attack the poster personally, but then, why didn’t you say so, when his post implied that’s how he felt?
Maybe you thought you were being funny, but keep in mind that tone is not conveyed in an e-mail/posting. The spirit in which it is intended isn’t necessarily the spirit in which it is received.
At the end of the day, this is a blog devoted to a baseball game, and it’s not my blog. None of this is real life, and I make no claim to editorial control. I’m just calling it like I see it. You certainly are free to dismiss/ignore everything that I’m saying. None of this is an effort to belittle or insult you.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
To your statement that.........
Baseball is indeed a game of chance. Old Style was not implyling that skill wasn’t involved, but luck plays a part. When Pete Rose crushed a line drive off Lee Smith in 1984 that richoched off Smith’s body and turned into a double-play, did that mean Smith threw a good pitch? Rose did a bad job of hitting?
Those two occurrences, or a dozen more like them, does not prove that baseball is a game of chance. It’s just no logical.
I’ve tried not to offend you with my rude, pompous, argumentative and sanctimonious ways.
But I don’t want
Clutche - May 9, 2009
Shanghai you're one of our best, most sensible posters.
Thanks.
dtpollitt - May 9, 2009
Nah.....
it’s just luck lol
Clutche - May 9, 2009
On a lighter side............
I hope we get lucky tonight and beat Milwaukee. Maybe we get one hit and their reliever walks three to force one in and we win 1-0. Of course if Dempster shuts them out we can chalk that up to pure luck. I’m sure Old Style & Ivy would agree. Do you think??
Clutche - May 9, 2009
I sincerely see the humor in that
But you have to realize, it doesn’t always come across like that.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
That's the problem with blogs and e-mails....
what is said is not always interpreted as it was meant to be.
Clutche - May 9, 2009
Indeed - and many people don't realize that
It’s an effective way to communicate, but that’s a common issue that people have.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
I think you're beginning to figure out my humor, and that's not always an easy task.
Clutche - May 9, 2009
I'm just trying to see it from your POV
I hope that you can see it from mine, as well.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
I do
Clutche - May 9, 2009
well said
Clutche - May 9, 2009
Not true Al, almost no teams are as bad as we are when scoring less than 4 runs
In the NL Central we are the ONLY team without a win in that scenario.
BoVandy - May 9, 2009
OK, what are the records of the other teams in the NL in that situation?
Remembering that this year is still somewhat a small sample size.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
It seems as if they haven’t been capitalizing on those situations all season long....
JB 23 - May 9, 2009
That was the turning point, to me
The bottom of the 8th — well, that’s going to happen. But they needed to put at least 2 runs up in the top of the 8th.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
Lou's Decision to Pinch Soto for Fukudome
With Soto struggling early, I wondered about Lou dropping him in for Fukudome with the bags loaded. I understand lefty vs. righty but also take a look at Stetter. He had given up 7 walks in 10 innings. Give Fukie’s knack for plate discipline in most situations, I would have liked to have seen Lou leave him in at that point.
ceegeewow - May 9, 2009
I agree.
Sometimes it seems the lefty/righty thing is over done. Not scoring in that situation changed the momentum. I was also shaking my head when he put in Heilman instead of Marmol.
katie casey - May 9, 2009
Marmol had simply been used too much
He can’t use him in EVERY game which is why using him with significant leads which he continues to do is so stupid.
Doggie Stalker - May 9, 2009
Lou had used Marmol in both games at Houston
And made him unavailable to use last night. But yes, we should have scored in that eighth inning. If we do, it probably ends up as a win for the Cubs.
Vermont Cubs Fan - May 9, 2009
+1
Sometimes “The Book” is best left unopened.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
Agreed. I said it was a dumb move at the time.
I don’t care what hand they bat with, you don’t PH for a guy who’s OPS is 450 points higher than the his replacement.
kanderber - May 9, 2009
Agreed.
The Soto pinch hit at bat and the failure to use Marmol in the ideal situation put this game squarely on Lou. Like a couple of other games this year, Lou outmanaged himself.
mondello58 - May 9, 2009
Do you want Marmol's arm to fall off?
Then keep using him every day.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
Suppose you're right.
I keep forgetting he’s human.
katie casey - May 9, 2009
not to mention that Marmol has hardly been untouchable or perfect this season
He’s been good more often than not, but he’s stumbled just as often as Heilman. The offense’s inability to score more than two runs off a guy who is 1-7 in his career against us is by the bigger culprit
BoVandy - May 9, 2009
agreed and at some point, someone else in the bullpen needs to step up in key situations
JB 23 - May 9, 2009
I think they already have
Even Neil Cotts has gotten us out of difficult situations. The pen came through for us in Houston, and other games. Guzman is getting more than pretty good, and I really think Heilman is taking hits when he doesn’t deserve it.
drewishdrewid - May 9, 2009
I need to see a little more consistency from those guys first......
…before we get too comfy in key situations. I am sure Lou was looking for Heilman to do that last night. If anything quit walking guys!!
JB 23 - May 9, 2009
I don't see Lou's decision as nearly as frustrating
as Theriot’s poor hitting. How did he ever get a reputation for “doing the little things right”?
DGU - May 9, 2009
Scales didn't just hustle.
It look like he flew when he landed on 3rd. I’m not sure if it was Pat or Ron, but one of them said he looked like Superman.
katie casey - May 9, 2009
I know we have said never ever again
But do you think Lou is tinkering with moving Soriano down the line-up?
ak123 - May 9, 2009
No.
Why should he?
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
He needs to now...
Lineup of Theriot, Fukudome, Soriano, Lee, Bradley, Fontenot, Soto and Freel is workable.
mondello58 - May 9, 2009
I'd rather see ...
… Soriano, Theriot, Fukudome 1-2-3. Why is the reverse so much better?
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
Soriano does much better in the leadoff spot
He has struggled in the third spot or when he’s not hitting leadoff. Does anyone have his exact stats when he’s not batting first?
Vermont Cubs Fan - May 9, 2009
I posted them last season, I think
But don’t have the ability to do so again at the moment. Either way, his productivity falls off (and in some cases way off) in spots other than lead-off. Apparently, he really likes moving the pitcher over.
Clutch16 - May 9, 2009
The Cubs
are a .500 team without Soriano in the lineup.
are a .300 team with Soriano batting any spot but leadoff
are a .600 team with Soriano batting leadoff.
This is not going to change.
drewishdrewid - May 9, 2009
yes because what you want is to do is take Soriano out of the only position he hits in
and put him in the middle order where he’s terrible.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that it’s not merely a fairy tale with Soriano. The guy is hitting under .100 with runners on, he is hitting well over .300 with the bases empty, he is not, nor will he ever be, a middle of the order hitter.
BoVandy - May 9, 2009
Soriano with men on
Soriano is hitting .135/.267/.459 with men on. That’s not great, but you’re not entitled to your own facts.
Anyway, that’s also 45 plate appearances, which is a pretty meaningless sample.
Old Style & Ivy - May 9, 2009
If Ramirez is back in a month or so ...
I think we’ll be fine. I think Bradley’s about to start hitting, and Lee’s playing better. Don’t get me started on Soto.
Assuming Ramirez isn’t done for more than six weeks, I’m still more worried about the bullpen.
elgato - May 9, 2009
Agree--it looks like Milton is starting to monopolize..
…sorry, couldn’t resist.
cubfever7 - May 9, 2009
Dislocation vs. Separation
I think I read somewhere that the difference between these are torn tendons. Reports say ARam has the one without the torn tendons….dislocation I think. IS THERE A DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE?
Fukudometer - May 9, 2009
No, but...
… here is a good description of what happens in a shoulder dislocation.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
Goodness,
I hope he doesn’t have surgery until after the season is over. But from what I saw on that site….
Vermont Cubs Fan - May 9, 2009
That's too deep for 9:00 in the morning Al.
Still recovering from being at the game.
mondello58 - May 9, 2009
Understood.
You can read it later. It’ll still be here.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
Miller
Who else from BCB was there?
thermal54 - May 9, 2009
I was
Galvan316 - May 9, 2009
Did you
get that sick feeling when Heilman came in in the 8th?
mondello58 - May 9, 2009
I got the sick feeling
as soon as we didn’t score in the top of the inning. I’ve seen this happen so many times over the years where we fail to score and then give up runs right after that and lose.
tucsoncubsfan - May 9, 2009
WELL WE FELT
The same thing ….I said I hope this does not come back to bite them….They had to take advantage and did not …..THe next 6-8 weeks are going to be hard w/o Aramis …
cubs north - May 9, 2009
Patterson to Pie to Gathraith to Freel
Can’t miss five-tool athlete Corey Patterson was supplanted by Felix Pie another can’t miss five-tool athlete. And then there is Dontrelle Willis (8th round) a former Cub draftee who the Cubs gave up on. Is there a Cub in recent memory who was a “can’t miss” somewhere else, never performed there, but then came to the Cubs and played well?
milesdavis - May 9, 2009
Mike Fontenot?
First round draft pick the Orioles gave up on, he was a throw-in in the Sammy trade, has developed into a solid major league player.
And I don’t think the Cubs “gave up on” Willis. They just traded a pitching prospect for a closer plus a starter who gave them very good production for a couple of seasons.
Old Style & Ivy - May 9, 2009
Sounds like Willis
will be starting for the Tigers this week.
cubswynn - May 9, 2009
Ryne Sandberg?
ChipSet - May 9, 2009
He wasn't really considered can't miss with the Phils, though
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
Cubs needed a clutch hit in the 8th inning
Bases where loaded and 1 away (after a Theriot tapper to Fielder) thats where the game really should have been put on ice for the beers.
My question though, with the heart of the Brewers line-up in the 8th inning why wasnt Marmol inserted in that spot? It puzzled me and I dont understand why Lou regradless of it being a “day-off” did not go to Gregg or Marmol in that spot.
Also.
I have got to hand it to Bobby Scales, that Triple was very impressive. and I loved cheering him on in enemy territory last night!
Galvan316 - May 9, 2009
Marmol had been in 16 of the first 28 games.
That’s WAY too many appearances. Theriot’s AB was terrible — swinging at the first pitch. Blame him, not Lou for not using Marmol.
Gregg would have thrown the last of the ninth.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
I am generally as optimistic as they come around here...
…but I have a gut feeling that Aramis is gone for much longer than 2 months.
cubswynn - May 9, 2009
It is the left shoulder
which is a plus. I think we’ll be lucky to see him after all-star break. Injuries like this are never alike and we’ll never know how really bad it is.
mrcubsfan - May 9, 2009
This is what happens when Marmol is overused...
You can’t use him in the situations when he is REALLY needed…Such as last night.
PurpleLineToWrigley - May 9, 2009
Okay ill give you all the notion with Marmol fine
But why not Gregg in that situation? Im my opinion facing Hart, Braun and Fielder in the 8th should have been religated to Gregg and have Heilman pitch the 9th
Galvan316 - May 9, 2009
That's a worse idea...
If you need to use Heilman, you want him before you have an at-bat…You do not want him to close. Gregg was not used because he would have been up if we had held the lead through the 8th into the top of the 9th.
PurpleLineToWrigley - May 9, 2009
I disagree
You have the heart of the other teams order in the bottom of the 8th inning, whats wrong with getting a 6 out save. Heilman should have been pulled immediately after walking Hart.
Galvan316 - May 9, 2009
Gregg couldn't even get a 4 out save earlier this year.
His knee tightens up if he sits in between innings…Lou said this after the blown save earlier in the year, and I would be shocked if we see him try to go more than an inning for a save again…
PurpleLineToWrigley - May 9, 2009
Agreed.
Gregg threw only 9 pitches on Thursday night and was ready for the 9th, had Heilman held the lead.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
+1
DGU - May 9, 2009
So much to comment on....
I was impressed with Wells because he seemed to dig deep and come up with the right pitch when needed last night. I think he will be a good fill in until Z comes back. I suspect Heilman is overused and this was the result, it was bound to happen. Bradley is looking much better at the plate but the guy is not going to get any breaks from ANY umpire; that called 3rd strike last night did not look like it got any of the plate. Poor Milton, dug himself a hole with umpires and may never get out.
Scales is hungry. Lou knows that and will play on this. I suspect he’ll get a few starts to confirm if he can play. Why not? It’s that or what? If I’m 31 and finally got my shot, I’m going to kill myself trying to stay. The guy is a substitute teacher which means he can’t be too stupid and probably a good guy. In my opinion, good guys do finish first. Give him the shot.
Al is exactly right. If Geo-Lee-Bradley get back to career averages and Sori-Fuk-Theriot-Fontenot stay the course, this team will miss Rammy but it will no be painful. We can do it, guys just have to step up.
Braun admired that HR too much last night. I suspect some chin music tonight.
mrcubsfan - May 9, 2009
If you thought Braun admired his HR
then what do you call what Milton Bradley did? He practically pitched a tent and made camp for the night haha.
PurpleLineToWrigley - May 9, 2009
The Brewers are a punk-ass outfit
All that untucking of their shirts and they way they Cadillac around the field. Granted, Soriano and Bradley are posers but that’s only two guys compared to the entire Brewers roster. Bushers.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
untucking shirts?
The game is over, but really why would anyone care? If you’re talking about Cadillacing it, Sori and Aram are Philippine taxicabs. I don’t think its the greatest thing to do, but I still wouldn’t want them thrown at.
ol Pete - May 9, 2009
Ultimately what goes around comes around
When a team like Milwaukee doesn’t conduct themselves like winners, they’ll never be winners.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
B.S.
Lots of teams full of jerks win championships. You’re just frustrated about the game and Ramirez, as am I.
Yeah, Braun poses for homers, and I don’t like it. But Soriano poses and the ball hits the wall, so?
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
The repeat winners in MLB act like pros
Even the irascible, feuding Oakland A’s of the mid-70s were all business on the field, wore the uniform properly, and kept the hotdogging to a bare minimum (Reggie alone). Same with the Yankee juggernaut.
Too much ill-place hubris is why the 1986 Mets and 2005 White Sox didn’t repeat.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
Do you really believe that?
I’m not going to dig up what happened to those teams in 1987 and 2006, but I find that assertion dubious at best. The game is won and lost by how teams perform, not by their personalities. Granted, an attitude can give your opposiiton extra incentive, but if you’re good enough, it doesn’t matter.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
I'm no fan of the Brewers, to put it mildly.
But, besides the Division, what exactly have the Cubs won lately?
Goodie1969 - May 9, 2009
Lately (this decade), more than the Brewers
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
Whoopee.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
I don't like the untucked shirts much either.
It does look kind of bush-league. But how is that any different than the crap tune that we play after every victory, as though we’ve just won the World Series? That’s right, I said it. Flame away…
Goodie1969 - May 9, 2009
Neither your or Shanghai is getting flamed.
You are both right – and so am I. I wouldn’t expect anyone to change their points of view based on an Internet argument. I suppose I broke the unwritten rule of “no venting” here at BCB so I apologize.
In no way am I saying “you’re wrong”. If anything I’m trying to say “I’m right” which is altogether different. Hope that makes sense.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
It's cool.
It’s as good a day to vent as any. :-)
Goodie1969 - May 9, 2009
thanks bro :-)
A note to Shanghai if s/he is still around – nope, I never been to Japan. So I’m curious if they are NOT a shame culture, as was my assumption.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
I think that they are, yeah
But I’ve never been (other than the Tokyo airport). I know that China and Singapore very much are; I believe that’s prevalent in a lot of eastern Asia cultures.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
I'm not taking it that way
And Goodie is right — go ahead and vent. It was a frustrating game.
Truth be told, the Cubs are lucky they didn’t lose by 5, with all the runners the Brewers had on base early. That would probably have been less frustrating.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
Cubs are doomed then
Flag Up - May 9, 2009
That was insightful (not)
And just a bit trollish, don’t ya think?
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
Doom
Emelie - May 9, 2009
personally, I'd rather they all stay dressed until they go into the clubhouse.
When Prince untucks, I always get nervous that he’s going to continue… ;-)
Seriously, if it’s going to be done, I think it’s probably less of an issue when most of the team does it. Then you can say it’s team spirit, tradition, camaraderie, etc. If it’s just one or two guys, then it’s more of a showboating thing and more grating – at least to me.
Think back to the days of yesterCub… what if the whole team jumped and clicked heels after a win instead of just Santo. Some of them probably couldn’t do it, but at least Santo wouldn’t have caught all the flak that he did.
ballhawk - May 9, 2009
Good point
Might be silly of me to believe, but I think Santo’s heel clicking helped the Mets that year. Gil Hodges made it a point to tell Ronnie that it was immature and bush (albeit in a calm, backhanded manner), so you can imagine how Seaver and the other guys who actually had to take the field against the Cubs felt.
But I’ll be the first to agree that a lack of depth did in the 1969 Cubs more than anything else.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
I agree
it seemed we had better depth last year before Lou and Jim tried to over-tinker with the roster. Now we are paying for it.
mondello58 - May 9, 2009
shoulder injuries
The trib this a.m. recalled that Rammy has had this problem before in terms of a subluxation:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-09-cubs-brewers-chicago-may09,0,4864940.story
I’ve had shoulder surgery. Just seeing that happen last night gives me sympathetic pain. Ugh.
thermal54 - May 9, 2009
Bradley "needs" the razzing of opposing fans to get fired up?
I do not like hearing that.
cubswynn - May 9, 2009
The Name is Little...
Chicken Little. You know about the sky?
The reasons I do not see this now, as a team that will make the Playoffs.
1. Jim Hendry rolled the dice on trading De Rosa., He lost. No decent insurance there. Way to save that money, Jimbo!
2. A-Ram is the team’s best player. With him out, there is no offensive replacement. With team RISP production hovering below .240, its gonna get worse, fellas. Last night was a perfect example with bases juiced.
3. Soto is the player I thought he was before last year. The WBC set him back. He is failing at every chance at the plate.
4. It is the “injury-bug” year, so far. unless items 2 and 3 are dramatically changed, and it will not be “early” in a few more weeks, the competition in the Central is MUCH improved.
5. The bullpen, other than two guys, really is bad. Well, Heilman is OK, but…
So this is our 2009 Cubs. I am not optimistic, per usual.
4.
The E-Man - May 9, 2009
I'm not so sure the Central is improved....
Houston and Pittsburgh having quickly descended to show they indeed suck.
Milwaukee’s pitching is no where near last year’s and won’t hold up.
St Louis is playing out of the their collective arses. I’d give them a “maybe” as a better team than 08.
We aren’t a better team than last year.
Cincy…..yeah, I’d say they’ve improved.
carmen_fanzone - May 9, 2009
Most would disagree with you
including sportswriters, broadcasters, Len and Bob -
You can only evaluate on what you see now – not, “what you think may happen”
The facts are that the Brewers have the most “quality starts” in the NL (case in point, a mediocre Jeff Suppan holding the Cubs to two runs) with a good Gallardo back.
And, the Cardinals are hitting about .325 with RISP. The hart of their order is unrelenting. And, in spite of what you “feel”, they have better pitching than last year, and they still have LaRussa. So I don’t know how you think they “may” be improved.
The Pirates, while they may not finish in the upper part of the Division, I, and others believe that they have a shot at .500 due to improved hitting and excellent defense. So, “…these are the facts ma’am”.
You can believe what you want.
Of COURSE, other than the Cubs winning it all, I’d only like to see the Cards lose 30 in a row – and Pujols get suspended for ’roids! lol
The E-Man - May 9, 2009
Whoops! Meant:
“… believe that they have a shot at .500 due to improved hitting and excellent defense.”
The Pirates young pitchers have and are improving. Their hitting is about what it was last year, post-Jason Bay
The E-Man - May 9, 2009
You can only evaluate on what you see now – not, "what you think may happen"
Well, you were talking about the rest of the season w/ Rami’s injury, no?
Even with that improved pitching, the Pirates are still 12-17, and have lost 7 out of the last 8. They’re not a good ballclub. Their hitting “post-Jason Bay” was atrocious and continues to be this year. And your thinking of reasons they’ll be a .500 club was totally “what you think will happen”, no? So, which is it? “Evaluate now” or “think what might happen”?
If you really feel the Cardinals are going to keep up the pace they’ve set in the first 6 weeks, you’re fooling yourself. And having the worst defense, next to the Nats, is going to hurt them in the long run. I’d say their pitching has improved, but I still think they have issues with that bullpen.
So you think Milwaukee’s staff is better than one with CC and Sheets? Really?
Maybe the media believed this division was improved after the first 2 weeks of the season, but check out the records, stats since then.
carmen_fanzone - May 9, 2009
I should add...
That I thought Hendry had learned from 2006 to have a really good back-up as a position player. So, in 2007, he acquired Mark DeRosa with a three-year deal, based in-part on the shaky A-Ram health, and DLEE’s former broken list.
This year, in order to get more “Left-Handed”, he trades the Super Sub, and gets Milton Bradley.
SCREW YOU HENDRY!
The E-Man - May 9, 2009
I detect the fine hand of Lou Piniella in the offseason moves
Much too much “lefty” obsession, which goes back to Lou’s overemphasis on balance and matchups.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
Correct.
Lou thought the reason they didn’t win in the playoffs was not enough LH hitters. He was wrong.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
Agreed.
Sadly, as Bruce Levine is talking about now, Hendry is “locked-out” on new acquisitions due to the ownership issue.
The E-Man - May 9, 2009
Agreed back atcha
Frankly I don’t see the Cubs acquiring a suitable replacement for ARam. Unless Soto and Lee and Milton step up, I think the Cubs fall far back come July.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
I agree with how you characterize the season to date...
…to me the Cubs have done a good job overall with all of their injuries. If the Aramis injury turns out to be 4-6 weeks, then it’s quite possible the team can be picked up by Bradley who is really due to start producing. A lineup with Soriano, Bradley, Fukudome & Lee all playing well can still be productive enough to win (there’s a lot of IFs in that ).
I was thinking the same about Hendry’s deals with the Os. We apparently did not pick up any of Freel’s salary? Kudos to Hendry. So, the best the Os could do on Freel was to eat his entire salary and get get a AAA player in return? I guess teams don’t want to take on salary for anyone viewed as marginal, and the O’s wanted at least a throw-in for the roster spot they were creating? Maybe Hendry has a file of emails on McPhail, possibly the smoking gun on the concrete cover-up? Maybe McPhail directed that they try and push the seats in the most risky areas to Cardinals fans? Whatever he does, keep it going, Jim!
DudeVf11 - May 9, 2009
Maybe the O's viewed him as bad in the clubhouse?
There is a reason why the O’s were willing to do this.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
And maybe that's where having Lou is helpful? Lous sits down with Freel in his office and has the Dibble fight accidentally playing in the background.
DudeVf11 - May 9, 2009
Quite possibly
I like the sound of it, anyway.
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
Um I think Lou got the worst of that fight
In any event anyone with an imaginary little friend is unlikely to be spooked by Lou.
Doggie Stalker - May 9, 2009
And you are COUNTING
on all of this to happen?
“A lineup with Soriano, Bradley, Fukudome & Lee all playing well can still be productive enough to win (there’s a lot of IFs in that ).”
The key, here, is how LONG will this take to happen? Its not just this you know – its like dominos – runs not scored=more pressure on starting pitching=more bullpen use=bad bullpen giving up more runs…
You are hoping that a lot of things are going to fall the Cubs way. At a point reality supercedes hope when it comes to the Chicago Cubs. At least in my lifetime.
The E-Man - May 9, 2009
My point is that the Cubs have productive players, and collectively they can pick it up for 4-6 weeks.
But they have to actually do it. The players cannot just flip the switch and turn it on, I totally agree. Over the course of the season you have injuries, slumps, hot streaks etc…big IF on health but a healthy Bradley and Lee are due to produce enough for a 4-6 week absence. Yes, I am hoping that it happens now because none of us has control, even the layers themselves have no control over it, except that production from these players is more likely than not given their abilities when healthy.
I think we are way too fragile of a roster to go the whole season without a more realistic replacement for Aramis.
DudeVf11 - May 9, 2009
I'm too fragile a Cubs fan to think we stay in contention!
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
Don't give up just yet
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
cmon
we had Rami, Lee, Soto and Bradley all suffering from injuries and STILL not dropping below .500 for more than a few days. Aramis Ramirez is important, but he’s only one player. You think if St. Louis lost Pujols, that Ankiel and the others wouldn’t do their best to step up?
It’s May 9th. Hopefully we get Rami back by the ASG. This team is perfectly capable of turning it on and staying in the race. They just have to decide to do it.
drewishdrewid - May 9, 2009
This is why I rely on you guys
I like coming to BCB so I can show off how good I am with Photoshop and reminisce about 1984, but I also come here to draw strength from the general optimism of the other posters. It’s sad that I need to rely on others to make me feel hopeful about the Cubs but it is what it is. At least I don’t rely on North Snide Base Ball for how I should feel – those guys have probably gone Jonestown by now!
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
one guy stumbles
another guy helps him back up. We’re not a baseball team here, but we are a team.
My heart sank when I read about the injury — I was ‘unlucky" enough to not be home and calling the game. Maybe I’m a little shielded from all of this because I didn’t see it happen. And I know that it’s going to be tough for a team that’s struggling to turn it up another notch, but they’re certainly capable of doing it. They just have to believe that they can.
I wasn’t ready to declare the season over at the end of April, and I’m not ready to declare it over now.
drewishdrewid - May 9, 2009
Bottom line for me is
that if one admittedly key injury is enough to completely derail this season, then we weren’t that good to begin with.
Good teams figure out a way to deal with this kind of stuff. Big time players step up when somebody goes down.
When Lee was lost early in ’06, the team quit which was as much a reflection on the manager as it was on anybody else.
I don’t see Pinella as being the kind of guy who’s going to let something like that happen but, if he does, I’ll be disappointed but I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.
bluekoolaide - May 9, 2009
the next
30 days will be very interesting to watch.
drewishdrewid - May 9, 2009
if you think it took compromising photos to get .133 hitting Ryan Freel away from the O's
Also considering he was bitching and moaning about playing time BEFORE he got hurt,
I’m glad you aren’t a GM.
This was junk for junk. No more, no less.
BoVandy - May 9, 2009
No, it was junk and a lot of cash for junk
Don’t you find that odd?
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
yes
but I’ll withhold judgement til Freel plays some games in a Cubs uniform.
drewishdrewid - May 9, 2009
A lot of people said the same kind of thing
last year when we picked up Jim Edmonds, how he was washed up and couldn’t hit any more… and look what happened. He was a quality acquisition for the team (and I think maybe we should have kept him around for another season!) So let’s see what Freel does for the team before we write him off.
Fonzie2178 - May 9, 2009
You may be right.
Apparently the O’s couldn’t find anyone to give them anything more than Gathright or to pay part of Freel’s salary, so maybe league wide GMs think these two players are about the same (nearly no value) and one is pretty expensive.
I don’t think players complaining about not playing is a big deal in general, but it can be depending how it is conveyed. Freel has been a pretty versatile player and more productive than Gathright over his career, but he could be junk as you say. It’s possible the deal is pretty much even. Maybe Freel is hurt or affected by injury more than we know?
DudeVf11 - May 10, 2009
Anyway - let's all just HOPE
its 4-6 weeks and no fracture!
The E-Man - May 9, 2009
I think we’d have heard by now if there was a fracture. They took x rays for that part and now an MRI to access further damage.
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
Dislocations
In the fanpost yesterday about Aramis’ shoulder, lots of people were posting pseudo medical info and I’d like to caution that as some info was posted that was clearly not correct. I am not a doctor however I am a certified Wilderness First Responder and one of the things we are taught to do is reset dislocated joints as those are very common wilderness injuries. So a few things about Aramis’ injury… the first being that we need to wait for the MRI to determine the extent of the damage. The aftereffects of a dislocated shoulder vary. It is not uncommon for someone who suffers a separated shoulder to then have them recur with some level of frequency. As for the Brewers medical staff having to reset the dislocation… that is very common. Rarely do separated shoulders go back into place by themselves. Also, the amount of time needed to get the shoulder back into joint is not an indication of the severity of the dislocation. Often times individuals with more muscle mass have a more difficult time getting their dislocated shoulder back into joint. So I won’t make any proclamations about Aramis’ injury but people need to not make suppositions because there has been info posted that may seem like common sense, however its not necessarily correct.
dmlichte - May 9, 2009
This is the most sensible thing written on the matter
and somewhat voids what I came here to write. REC’d.
chilango2 - May 9, 2009
Dislocated shoulders
I’ve dealt with two of them. One was a 16-year old who had previous dislocations. He was stretching and just kind of moved his arm backwards and it popped out of socket. He moved it forward and it popped back into place by itself immediately. Again, though, this shows how someone with a history of dislocations is prone to having it recur, even in the course of normal every day life.
Situation number two happened to a mid-20s guy, very athletic, swimmer, playing basketball. Someone nailed him in the course of a game, dislocating his shoulder. He was in extreme pain and the shoulder did not reset by itself. Another individual with the same training that I have ended up reducing the separated shoulder, however it took quite some time. There is actually a process that you go through to reduce a shoulder separation and he had to do it several times before he could get the shoulder back into place. Again, this was a very athletic, muscled person and I believe he later had to have surgery.
There are lots of factors but the bottom line is that its a wait and see situation. Time for Lee, Soto and Bradley to hit like they’re expected to!
dmlichte - May 9, 2009
True, true..
Agreed.
“Hopefully” no fracture. I just think about Scott Rolen’s similar injury…he just wasn’t the same player and IIRC, had a dislocation as well, with no surgery.
Should be seeing some reports after noon or so…
The E-Man - May 9, 2009
Make it green
heine41 - May 9, 2009
Good Post...
…and you are correct in saying you just won’t know who long Ramirez will be out until a thourough physical and diagnostic examination can be completed. At that point, you can venture a really good guess, but every player recovers from these things on their own time frame.
If you recall, Marty Havlet on the Hawks had this same problem for two straight years, and it finally looks like surgery was able to fix his reacurring shoulder dislocations. If it turns out surgery is required, the time frame would be more around 3-4 months and maybe longer.
Since this is the first time it has happened to Ramirez in a while (8-9 years), I would guess they would go the conservative route (unless there is significant loosening of the ligaments) and he could be back in about 2 months time.
The key here is going to be Bradley. If he can hit the way he is capable (and stays healthy), it will soften this blow. The other important piece would be the pitching staff staying healthy and pitching to their capabilities. The division is pretty weak, and they should be able to stay in the hunt while Ramirez is mending.
MPH73 - May 9, 2009
I know it's really early to be saying this...
…and I’m probably going to get a lot of crap for doing so but I have a bad feeling about the rest of the season.
Bricks and Ivy - May 9, 2009
Hard not to have a bad feeling after the injury, but like with the injury itself
We need to wait to see the severity
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
Interest in Josh Vitters's progress thru the system will increase
Not that he’s anywhere near ready to come up, but ARam’s injury has got to spark interest in how well Vitters is doing and how he projects.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
true
especially if this leads to chronic shoulder problems throughout his career. vitters clearly needs a lot more time in the minors, but i believe a certain slugging 1B in our division was called up directly from class A peoria when peoria was part of the Cardinals organization.
amory blaine - May 9, 2009
yeah, well the last guy to "have a bad feeling" about things
went on to help defeat the evil galactic empire and got the girl, so don’t give up yet.
ballhawk - May 9, 2009
"Laugh it up, fuzzball[hawk]"
Shanghai Badger - May 9, 2009
scales and fontenot
can’t scales play third? if so, i’d try him there and leave fontenot at 2B. i think fontenot has been terrible defensively at third in ramirez’s absence thus far this season. i’d like to see if scales can be even average at 3B before sticking fontenot back there.
also, wasn’t lee’s injury in 2006 comparable to this ramirez injury? at the time, lee was our best hitter (based on his previous season and his start to that season) and i remember having a deep, dark feeling of dread while listening to the game when he got injured. i don’t quite have that same feeling now. i think this team, while flawed, is talented enough to contend without ramirez – at least for a couple of months.
amory blaine - May 9, 2009
He can
but Fontenot is probably better there. I think we lose less defensively by leaving Scales at second base and moving Fonty to third.
Scales has looked really bad at third from what I’ve heard.
Josh Timmers - May 9, 2009
we have Freel, too
It seems to me that for the moment, we figure out some kind of platoon/rotation for second, third and short between Freel, Fonty, Riot and Scales. Obviously, Riot will get most of the starts at short. Freel, Scales and Fonty split second and third, and we use Miles only when we have to. That keeps Scales’ bat in the lineup, and keeps Miles bat out.
drewishdrewid - May 9, 2009
Yeah
Clearly Freel is the top option for third right now. I guess I was just thinking about how to get Bobby Scales into the game there.
Josh Timmers - May 9, 2009
I'd still rather have Fontenot at 2B and Scales at 3B.
I have seen Scales at 3B in spring training. He was indeed pretty bad there.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
"Freel, Fonty, Riot, and Scales..."
Sending
fearmild discomfort into the hearts of the opposition since…yesterday. :)CubsWin!Oregon - May 9, 2009
I subscribe to rule #1 here: "Would you say to someone what you post?"
It is paramount to our collective well-being while we spend time here. And most of us also try to keep positive during the bad times. When I feel like something is not right, I stop and think about what I’m about to write. Nine out of 10 times, I end up not writing anything because there’s no point in stating the obvious. However, I do need to get out some things today.
I had been writing a Fanpost all week entitled “The State of the Cubs after 30 Team Games.” I had been saying all Spring that it’s unfair to judge any professional baseball team before such landmark, and I kept all my opinions to myself (not that anyone is particularly interested in my analysis). After last night’s injury, all my observations have become moot.
I tossed around all night. I feel awful for Aramis Ramirez. I’ve had both shoulders dislocated and surgery on my left one after it became chronic. I understand the severity of the injury. Without being a medical professional, I can attest that recovery will be difficult, painful, frustrating and long. But the state of the team also kept me awake.
I’m sorry in advance for being negative and counterproductive.
But I have to believe that Ramirez’s injury equates with Derrek Lee’s wrist injury in 2006— A team leader goes down early in the season. His replacement is OK on paper but not so much in actuality, because the offense was dependent on his placement in the lineup and his drive. Chronic issues with the injured limb after his return leading to poor numbers. High expectations for the team before the season started. Pitching ace on the DL. Underpowered offense. Perceived abuse of the two solid bullpen arms. Questionable offseason moves by the front office.
I’m hoping against hope. I really don’t want to give up. I just have this nagging feeling I’ll spend the Summer moping around feeling sorry for myself. I need a hug.
Again, I’m sorry for being a negative nelly. Those who know my track record here know I’m not going to annoy you anymore. I just felt the need to put it in writing. Have a good weekend and stay safe.
Jose Hernandez-Lagunes
Chicago, Illinois
May 9, 2009
chilango2 - May 9, 2009
Here's what I think.
1) This team has more lineup depth than the 2006 team. If 2/3 of Bradley, Lee, Soto can step up their games to the top levels of reasonable expectation for them, we’ll still be ok. This injury hurts so much because they haven’t been hitting. I’m sure at least one of them will step it up; I think it’s likely 2/3 will, and not beyond hope that all 3 will.
2) There should be a number of reasonable to very good 3B options available by trade if we go that route. I think if Jim is willing to overpay to make it happen, he could bring Huff in the next couple of weeks. On the other hand, there’s enough supply in the 3B market that a little patience should make the pricetags reasonable.
3) You should go ahead and hit “post” more often. I wouldn’t be surprised if what seems obvious to you ends up being insightful to some of us.
DGU - May 9, 2009
I'll give you a hug if you want
but I haven’t showered yet.
you think we have an underpowered offense? I think we have an offense that HAS power, they’re just not using it yet.
drewishdrewid - May 9, 2009
Thanks, I'll take it, I haven't showered either
Soto is slumping and looks as if he’ll post smaller numbers than last year’s.
Bradley seems to be trying too hard. If he smaks more than 20 HR, bats for .245 and pushes more than 70 runs, he’ll surpass my expectations.
Lee is a great #7 hitter at this point. His defense is still invaluable. But expecting more than what he did last year at the plate is naïve.
Soriano is as streaky as my bathroom mirror after my wife attempts cleaning it. But he will still be the driving piston of the offense.
Fukudome looks as if he will overcome last year’s slump, but he is not a power hitter. Along with Theriot and Fontenot, they can and should provide for good small-ball runs. But not enough to overcome the high number of runs the bullpen is bound to give up.
chilango2 - May 9, 2009
Here's a hug, Chilango
Emelie - May 9, 2009
I would like to apologize
To any and all who were offended by comments I made in last night’s game thread.
I am sorry.
bclark89 - May 9, 2009
Don't quite get marveling at "getting the Orioles to take our junk"
It’s not like we’re getting anything other than junk back.
BoVandy - May 9, 2009
Question:
When Aramis was hurt why didn’t the runner take second? He could have walked to 2nd if he wanted to and yet he stayed at first. That ball was still live. I apologize if this has been discussed already. I couldn’t find anything written about it.
muehlman - May 9, 2009
It seemed to me that he looked like he thought about it
and then thought better of it. He may have considered it distasteful to grab an extra base while a man is rolling around in agony.
DGU - May 9, 2009
Yeah that's what I thought.
I remember him rounding the base looking around as if to ask “should I keep running?”. Who was it anyway? Classy move if that is in fact what transpired.
muehlman - May 9, 2009
Braun - the same guy that people were ripping on for 'admiring' his home run later in the game
ballhawk - May 9, 2009
Interesting!
I have a new found respect for that guy. What percentage of MLB players take 2 in that situation? I think I would be upset with a Cubs player if he doesn’t take 2nd if the situation was reversed. Down 1 run late against a division rival. Looks like karma came quick for him. give him props!
muehlman - May 9, 2009
In truth, I think the answer is somewhere in the middle
I don’t think Braun went out of his way to be noble and classy when ARam went down. From what others were describing of the play, it was probably more confusion than anything. He gets to first, looks around, and probably sees ARam down with a crowd quickly gathering. I’m guessing by the time he figured out where the ball was, ump had probably already called time and no chance to get to second.
By the same token though, I don’t think Braun went out of his way to showboat and admire his home run. It put his team ahead late in the game, and as you said, against a division rival, so a slow step or two to start with and a bat toss is to be expected and not unwarranted.
I’d say Braun deserves neither our praise nor our scorn. We got bigger things to worry about. Move along and just win tonight.
ballhawk - May 9, 2009
yeah but..
at what point is the ump allowed to call time? Isn’t the first base coach telling him to go or stay? maybe the praise should go to the coach? maybe braun and/or the 1b coach were just dumb for not getting that extra base?
I’m done now.
muehlman - May 9, 2009
Ryan Braun gets a reprieve from Yours Truly
Tell you what – he can pose for HRs as long as the shirt stays tucked in. :-p
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
He didn't know what was going on
I’m pretty sure he didn’t know where the ball was. I think he was quoted as saying he didn’t realize Ramirez got hurt right away.
Old Style & Ivy - May 9, 2009
Has anyone heard anything about Ryan Dempters's child?
I heard Bruce Levine say the Dempsters are in our thoughts and prayers. Is something wrong?
Rick B - May 9, 2009
I've spent the last 20 minutes looking over the wires and the Web
All I’ve been able to find are Tweets saying things along the lines of “I feel so sorry for the Dempsters.” Please elaborate and link if you find anything.
chilango2 - May 9, 2009
Apparently there was something somewhere because I just got an email from a friend who knows of Ryan.
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
Probably not much help but this is what I found when I googled it
Ryan Dempster rejoined the team Friday after a brief trip back home to tend to family issues. He’s scheduled to start tonight.
http://www.southtownstar.com/sports/1565786,050909sptcubsnbk.article
Madison Cub Fan - May 9, 2009
I have heard the same thing...
… that there was a family issue possibly regarding one of the Dempsters’ children. Don’t know anything beyond that.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
Any idea what time...
we’ll learn more about Ramirez? It’s a nice day out, I’d rather not keep checking back here all afternoon.
kanderber - May 9, 2009
Probably closer to game time. At least this is not on the west coast.
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
I was there last night, and i have all sorts of witty, insightful things to contribute...
… but i gotta go throw up first.
Too much Miller products makes me want to die… but brewers fans are nice. Some mild trash talking, but overall pleasant and intelligent. My second time to miller park (the first was Z’s no hitter last season) and both times i’ve enjoyed it.
Except for the Miller. Seriously. Whats wrong with this beer?
AndrewJStone - May 9, 2009
+1 for the user pic
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
MIller Lite has zero taste.......its just awful IMO
JB 23 - May 9, 2009
Lord forbid a player be passionate, emotional & just plain having fun in the heat of the moment.
NFL, NBA, NHL, Soccer name any sport where a player doesn’t celebrate in the heat of the moment. What fun is playing if you can’t get emotional, my gosh why even play.
Braun watched his opposite-field drive for a moment, then stuck his tongue out in a Jordan-esque display while slapping hands with first base coach Ed Sedar. Milwaukee has won four of five and 13 of the last 17. “I’m passionate. My intent is never to show anybody up or embarrass anybody,” Braun said. “I think guys should be emotional, you should enjoy it. You don’t hit too many home runs in big situations that you get to enjoy, so why not?”
Flag Up - May 9, 2009
the times, they are a-changin'
I wonder if players of the “old school” era – say up until the 1990s – were products of their environment with respect to outward displays of emotion and excitement?
The players I grew up with were predominantly born in the early 1950s, a time when the country was coming off a hard-fought international war and a devastating economic crisis before that. They were raised by parents who either fought in WWII or suffered through the Depression. Given that environment, Mom and Dad may have instilled in them a sense that nothing should be taken for granted and that hardship is just around the corner. Folks believed that hard work is its own reward, and if you wanted to be treated with respect then you must do the same to others. Could be why the Fisks, Seavers, and Ripkens of my era weren’t that exuberant and self-congratulatory.
Contrast that with today’s stars like Braun, Soriano, Valverde, and Manny who relish every opportunity to celebrate a great play or big hit. They’re from an era of relative peace and prosperity, with neither their parents nor themselves enduring the struggles of a war or an economic collapse. Creature comforts abounded and reinforced the attitude that life was for living in the moment. “Don’t worry, be happy” seemed everyone’s attitude. And also consider that sports defined itself even more as “entertainment” during this time – which I feel fomented a celebrity culture among athletes that manifested itself in a “playing to the crowd” manner of conduct. What was once “sportmanship” became “dull robotics” and (to some) a lack of acknowledgment for the fans paying good money to see them perform.
Neither type of player behavior is right or wrong. It all comes down to a fan’s personal preference as far as how they think athletes should conduct themselves on the field.
CaliCub - May 9, 2009
The other extreme isn't any better though.
Take the NFL: A guy makes a routine tackle for maybe a loss of half a yard, and he jumps up and acts like he just conquered India.
It gets tacky really quickly.
It’s also not just baseball that is debating “celebrations.” Look at the whole Bobby Crosby vs. Alex Ovechkin thing.
I do agree that we don’t want emotionless automatons as a players, though. I just prefer to have less celebrating than more…at least in plays that don’t automatically end a game (ala walk-off HRs, etc.)
CubsWin!Oregon - May 9, 2009
I Do Know This - Whatever Kind Of Cup Scales Wore Last Night
gets my vote for Player Of The Week, especially after that Hustleesque slide into 3rd.
Who knows but that he will be the man to plug the hole there? Get well soon, Rami ..
cubnational - May 9, 2009
Possible solutions in the minor leagues
are:
The system has a lot of good third base prospects. Unfortunately, I don’t think any of them are ready to contribute on the major league level. The one guy down there that I think might be able to help is Tony Thomas. He’s a second baseman who’s challenged there, so a move to third base in his future might be possible. But he’s more likely to help the Cubs in 2010 at second than third, and moving him to third and calling him up might hinder his development.
Jovan Rosa has been lousy for Daytona so far, and he’s a defensively-challenged third baseman. Third base for the I-Cubs now is Matt Camp, who’s more of a utility guy and not likely to outperform Ryan Freel, for example. Marquez Smith is playing third for TN, but he just got promoted from DAY and while he’s got some pop, I don’t think he’s ready. He’s also not really likely to get on base enough to play in the majors.
So it’s likely Scales and Freel.
Josh Timmers - May 9, 2009
This kind of stuff shows
just how good (or bad as the case may be) our organization is as a whole. Being able to replace your starters who get injured with guys who can fill in ably at least, is important to putting together a winning franchise.
Not that we are any good at it…but I am willing to see just how Scales and fFreel do in the meantime.
eswan9 - May 9, 2009
Am I the only one who finds this to be shoddy reporting?
On the Trib’s sports page, it says “”http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/" target="new">Ramirez out 4-6 weeks" as the headline for the article about him and the game. I saw that and thought the results of the MRI were in, but it’s still just idle speculation. Shouldn’t they have the word ‘could’ in there, to let people know that they’re just guessing like the rest of us?
Schwa - May 9, 2009
Not sure why that link didn't work.
Try #2
Schwa - May 9, 2009
I'd say it's a pretty good guess
and in this age of looking for the very last penny in traffic revenue, it’s a safe editorial decision.
chilango2 - May 9, 2009
Good guess...
But they report it as a fact. He could be back in two weeks if there’s no major damage to the ligaments/tendons, or he could be gone for the season if there is a tear that requires surgery. Without the MRI results, a guess is all it really is.
CubsBullsBears - May 9, 2009
The media likes to make us think they have a scoop. 4-6 weeks is a good guess. If it’s less they can say “MRi showed it was less severe than the Cubs feared last night” or if it’s worse “MRI showed it is worse than the Cubs feared last night”
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
Even if the MRI comes up great
he’s still out 4-6 weeks. He could be out longer.
Josh Timmers - May 9, 2009
Dempster
What’s going on with Dempster’s child? I have a friend who knows who he is because of the comic book/sci fi world and heard a mention on the radio and just emailed me to see what Cub fans know.
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
Still unable to find anything
AP wire just giving a game preview for tonight. I have no radio at my house. The Web searches are not being helpful either.
chilango2 - May 9, 2009
Ryan is a really good guy. I have done a couple of charity things he was involved with. Unfortunately the friend who knows him really well is not answering her phone. But I left a voicemail.
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
Shoulder injury seriousness
I was one of those that posted personal experiences with shoulder dislocations in my family and how much the severity can differ.
One thing I and all have to remember is resuming normal activity for us to be whatever we are in our lives (unless it’s an intense physical activity) is a lot different than playing major league baseball.
That’s why it drives me goofy (okay goofier) when a player is hurt and I hear “I went to work with this and that”
I went to work a few days after major knee surgery. That’s because I work at a desk. I don’t have to get up and walk a lot for my job.
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
Lee and such
People are talking about Lee like we’re talking about counting on Neifi to step up.
I think the rest of the lineup can keep us going. I know the henny penny chicken little types want to say the sky is falling and come back and say “See I was right! The sky did fall” and be smug about it.
The big problem is this means we need everyone to stay healthy. Bradley needs to stay healthy.
And I want Soto to start bashing people in the head who use the Jerome Walton comparison after a month into his second season.
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
2 Ramirez's
Sadly, Im thinking the Dodgers get theirs back before we get ours.
Orval Overall - May 9, 2009
Dempster
He’s still starting tonight so hopefully that means things are okay or enough for him to be with the team.
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
Wait... what happened to Demp?
kanderber - May 9, 2009
Levine
Levine was asking people to keep his family in their thoughts and prayers.
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
did he say why?
BoVandy - May 9, 2009
No
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
Demp's Baby is sick
The child has been in the ICU since birth. Has to be fed by feeding tube. Cannot swallow. Very sad
louslovechild - May 9, 2009
Thanks
Thanks that is sad. Ryan and his wife are really good people.
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
Dempster
He and his wife had a child recently (maybe during spring training). The baby has been in the hospital since then as she has been unable to swallow food. There is also belief that there may be additional birth defects. Ryan’s wife has been with the baby while he’s been caring for his 4 year old son.
dmlichte - May 9, 2009
That is sad. Nothing is worse than having your child suffer through anything.
puckishcubsfan - May 9, 2009
I hear about something like this
and suddenly the game of baseball seems a lot less important.
bluekoolaide - May 9, 2009
I'm really sorry to hear that.
Ryan Dempster is a good guy. I feel badly for him and his family.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
It's a tremendous strain. My heart goes out to all of them.
Emelie - May 9, 2009
and I don't mean to trivialize things
but this may be part of why he’s struggled with his control. We know how Lee gets sometimes when his daughter was dealing with medical issues.
drewishdrewid - May 9, 2009
it certainly would be understandable
Emelie - May 9, 2009
Exactly.
Further proof that non-statistical things — things that cannot be measured on a stat sheet — DO matter in baseball performance.
Al Yellon - May 9, 2009
One day at a time
It’s easy to look at what happened with A-Ram last night and see it as yet another reason why the Cubs have no chance this season. I disagree.
Yes, it’s a HUGE loss. Yes, it feels like “piling on” after Z goes out, D-Lee with his neck issues, poor production from some of the bigger bats on the team, etc.
But baseball is a day at a time, week at a time, month at a time sport. One crummy day (OK, admittedly REALLY crummy day) does not mean all is lost.
Opportunity knocks. I believe the Cubs have the players who are capable of stepping up in this time of great need.
And Jim Hendry, while not perfect (no one is), has consistently built a winning team and addressed the ongoing seasonal player needs very well as GM. Yes, there have been some “misses”, but he’s had far more “hits” in his tenure.
So let’s take this day to day and week to week. Nothing worthwhile comes easily (and this season may well just prove how true that expression is).
Have faith. It’s what being a Cubs fan is all about…
Zeke - May 9, 2009
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