Kevin Gregg allowed only three home runs all last year. One of them was memorable to Cubs fans -- a three-run, pinch-hit blast by Daryle Ward on August 15, 2008 in Miami that gave the Cubs a 6-5 win over the Marlins. At the time Gregg hadn't allowed a HR since May.
In 2009, in half as many innings as he pitched last year, he's now allowed twice as many homers -- six. Last night's hurt more than any of the other five, as Ryan Raburn's pinch-hit, two-run homer erased a 4-3 lead and gave the Cubs a taste of the medicine they delivered three straight times last week to other teams, a 5-4 loss to the Tigers.
This ruined a night that looked like it was going as originally planned by Cubs brass before the season started: a fine seven-inning performance by Carlos Zambrano, whose only mistake was the two-run homer Brandon Inge slammed off him; a solid inning of relief from Carlos Marmol, and some timely hitting capped by a two-run homer from Micah Hoffpauir.
In fact, I was mentally composing this recap as Gregg recorded the first out in the ninth, even after he walked Don Kelly to put a runner on base. It was going to be titled "Designated Hoffpauir", since Micah was the Cubs' first DH of the 2009 season.
Instead, it's one of the toughest losses of the season. The Cardinals beat the Mets in the only NL game of the night, so the Cubs fall 3.5 games off the pace in the NL Central. However, no one still seems to want to step up and dominate the division. The Brewers lost to the Twins at home -- and their pitching staff is starting to live up to my prediction that they would be "Gallardo and four Suppans". The Cubs trail Milwaukee by only 1.5 games.
The offense did a decent job against one of the better pitchers in the AL this year, Edwin Jackson. Derrek Lee singled and doubled; Milton Bradley didn't have any hits but drew two walks. The biggest bone I can pick about last night's game (other than the walkoff) is the Cubs' failure to score more than one run in the first inning after loading the bases with nobody out. They had the chance to break the game open and maybe even get Jackson out of there, but couldn't.
One final note about shutouts with double-digit hits for the scoreless team, as we were discussing yesterday; on June 20, 1974, Rick Reuschel shut out the Pirates at Wrigley Field 1-0, giving up 12 hits (including three doubles!). He was helped out by a pair of double plays. (Thanks to George Castle for the reminder.) It almost seems as if Cubs pitchers have to throw shutouts and hit home runs themselves for the Cubs to win these days. They still need another bat, even when Aramis Ramirez comes back, and Lou says A-Ram will start taking BP this Friday at the Cell:
"Once we get to that stage, it's just a matter of when he goes out for a rehab assignment," Piniella said. "He is going to have to go out and play and get some at-bats. ... We can start seeing light at the end of the tunnel with this thing now."
Onward to tonight. A win would provide more light in that tunnel, too.
0 recs | 272 comments
I've always said
Winning isn’t everything but losing sucks.
At least this team has a pulse in them unlike a few weeks ago. It was a tough one but they proved they could get to some of the tougher pitchers in the AL. If they can maintain being less than 5 games out by the time Aramis returns then there’s nothing to worry about.
ak123 - June 24, 2009
Home Runs don't bother me so much
as the walks that precede them.
Goodie1969 - June 24, 2009
+1
CyberCyclist - June 24, 2009
+1
This was really a poor performance from Gregg. He could have easily walked all of the batters he faced. He was not sharp even though he had just pitched on Sunday. He was all over the place.
willie mays hayes' gloves - June 24, 2009
Make this green :)
Madison Cub Fan - June 24, 2009
Done and done.
AndrewJStone - June 24, 2009
+ 1 Billion
WanderingWanderer - June 24, 2009
The Cub relievers are the worst in this category
It looks like we’re fourth worst, but we’re actually the worst if you look at Innings Pitched
DisCUBbobulated - June 24, 2009
Gregg Not in Sharkland
Al said Gregg has allowed twice as many HR’s – He is in Wrigley not Sharkland or whatever the name of the Marlins Ball Yard is… The Marlins Park has an outfield the size of Soldiers Field…. well anyway when your sitting there it looks BIG…….. and Goodie is right its not the HR but the BB b4 them…………..that kill
nimblenikelfoos - June 24, 2009
Well...
3 HRs are away, and 3 are at Wrigley, so it really doesnt matter what park it is.
HIGGY - June 24, 2009
And, Comerica Park also has a huge outfield.
At least two other balls were hit to deep CF, 410 feet or more, that were outs. Those would have been HR at Wrigley. (Not off Gregg, but you get the point.)
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
But the original point remains valid.
Kevin Gregg has tended to give up a fair share of HRs. 2008 was the exception. He’s also always had a home ballpark that cut down the HRs he gave up. 2009 is the exception.
DGU - June 24, 2009
Funny how Len and BB
just mentioned putting the ball over the outer half and letting the Tiger’s player hit it to straight centre. Unfortunately, he hit it a good 50-60’ left of centre.
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
Agreed
and I don’t think Larry’s scouting report prior to the pinch hitter included “he can’t hit hanging sliders that are belt high over the middle of the plate” :)
gwood - June 24, 2009
Even the best closers blow games from time to time...
Not that Gregg would fall into that category, but you get my drift.
I didn’t see the game so I’m going off of my few score checks on the cell and this recap… but seems to be a well played game that unfortunately we lost. And it’s not like we let the opposing team’s best hitter beat us. Sucks to lose, especially twice in a row, but can’t win ’em all!
kanderber - June 24, 2009
It's a small point but I'd rather be beaten by the other team's best...
than an anonymous future insurance salesman like Ryan Raburn.
copingwiththecubs - June 24, 2009
Not me.
I agree with the saying “you can’t let the other team’s best player beat you.” Ala Chipper Jones back in Atlanta earlier this year.
kanderber - June 24, 2009
check back in 5 years and see if he's selling insurance then
this kid is good.
ballhawk - June 24, 2009
best closers
Look at what happened 25 years ago yesterday when some young guy named Sandberg hit not one, but TWO homers off the best closer in the game at that time!
revtrh - June 24, 2009
If Gregg goes 2 months
without blowing a save fine. We just don’t want any habits getting started here!
mrcubsfan - June 24, 2009
2 months?
Didn’t Gregg give up a 2 run homer in Atlanta with two outs in the 9th to Francouer on June 2d that tied the game and ruined Wells’ start?
wccubfan - June 24, 2009
Yep...
That’s what last night reminded me of. That exact game.
Fishbone2 - June 24, 2009
Soriano....Bad
To properly punctuate just how bad he’s been for over a month now, please review his final AB. Swinging wildly on a 2-0 slider away, swinging through a 2-1 high fastball and then popping out weakly on a swing that could have been the worst of the entire season.
I’m not exact on these numbers but in his last 30 or so games, he’s hitting .154 over the course of over 100 AB’s. That’s not a slump folks, that is a decline. To make matters worse, of the few hits that he has gotten during that stretch, approximately half of them have been softly hit flares, floaters or broken bat hits.
He doesn’t need rest, his pride needs to be attacked. Sit him down for an extended period until he realizes that LF is not his position out of charity. Obviously Lou doesn’t have the sack to do that but allowing him to continue to take AB’s in whatever way he sees fit without even the slightest hint that he’s willing to alter his approach is absolutely handcuffing this club.
And for those of you that believe his current routine in which he walks back to the dugout after all K’s, jogs halfway out to LF and then walks the rest of the way each inning, jogs to 1B on routine balls in the infield, fails to even get to 1B on his routine fly outs and pop-ups, runs the bases as if he were anchored to each and then trudges in from LF at the conclusion of every inning somehow constitutes effort and hustle, please turn the channel to the College World Series for one half inning and ascertain the difference.
Not including his hitting, Soriano’s effort should be called into question immediately. When considering his hitting over his last 150 AB’s, he should be sitting. No question about it.
krummy12 - June 24, 2009
My man....
This is extremely tough to agrue. I must agree.
When an MLB hitter gets up 2-0 in the count, they are looking for a pitch to drive. Last night, how does a pitch in the left handed batters box look good?
It is sad and madding (spelling?) at the same time.
HIGGY - June 24, 2009
You can't blame Alfonso...
that; well, at least I don’t. Piniella refuses to take the bat out of anyone’s hand, regardless of how bad they’re hitting, or their level of talent. If the manager won’t ask, how much can you blame the player for not doing?
Damen Jackson - June 24, 2009
Wow...sounds eerily familiar
Hmmmm, all we need to do is substitute Dusty for Piniella and it seems like the same crap all over again.
Although, I’ll argue the question. Not the post but the player. I’ve never been fond of Fonzie’s attitude. I cheer for him because…well I almost have to; he’s wearing Cubbie Blue. I can blame the player for not doing since I think he’s totally selfish and tries to knock the cover off the ball every single time rather than trying to drive the ball where its hit. Forget for a moment about his position in the lineup, I’m talking strictly how his plate discipline sucks.
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
His plate discipline does suck...
And frankly, with the notable exception of Tony LaRussa, many if not all of the old-school managers do this. It’s very frustrating.
As for Soriano, he is who is. He’s a 30-something dude who will probably see a 200 million dollars over his playing career by being this type of player. He ain’t going to change, especially if you won’t ask him to.
Damen Jackson - June 24, 2009
Maybe, but his hitting has changed somewhat
In the last few games, I’ve noticed that he seems to be trying to put some balls into right field instead of pulling everything. I think that’s a good sign. We’ll see how long it lasts.
dr stabbingworth - June 24, 2009
I think he's...
just been late with the fastball, but maybe.
Damen Jackson - June 24, 2009
Correct
He hasn’t been driving the ball the opposite way, he’s been floating it the opposite way. Even the ball he hit to left-center in the last White Sox game was well in on his hands. He was strong enough to hit a semi-line drive as a result but that ball was hardly hammered.
I know the Cubs are stuck with him and I recognize he’ll probably have better times than he’s having now but that is absolutely no excuse for his lack of effort. It takes exactly zero ability to give even a reasonable amount of effort. HIs lackadaisical approach on a daily basis is shameful for a guy making that kind of money.
Right now, the longer he’s in the lineup, the harder it will be for this club to hit with any consistency. But there is a solution…and an easy one at that. Challenge him. Sit him down, call him out and challenge him. Quit coddling to him and quit putting on the charade that his track record will get him through this.
Perhaps behind closed doors this is being done. I doubt it, but perhaps it is. I say I doubt it because I’ve seen absolutely nothing over the course of the past month to indicate change is being made….save for what can best be described as an anomaly when he stole 2B against the Sox.
If he’s challenged and his pride is hurt, perhaps he’ll get it. Perhaps not. But when he comes out and says he doesn’t want t a day off, it only panders to the fact that he’s apparently allowed to play half-assed on a regular basis. It portrays him as the ultimate “gamer”, something that he routinely shows otherwise.
krummy12 - June 24, 2009
I took a lot of heat...
After year one of Lou for comparing him to Dusty, to me they do a lot of the same things, it is just that Lou HAD more fire to him, but that has seemed to disappear and now people want to compare.
HIGGY - June 24, 2009
His fire masked it a bit previously
now, he’s more complacent and letting selfish players dictate the tone.
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
There were a few here...
… who said, when Lou was hired, that he’d be exactly like Dusty only all his players would hate him.
Sounds like that’s coming true.
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
you've said that before
what evidence do we have that any players, besides perhaps Ryan Freel, hates Lou Piniella?
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
We don't, in public.
But we also don’t know what’s going on in the privacy of the clubhouse. We DO know that Fox, when he arrived, said there wasn’t a great atmosphere in the clubhouse.
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
sure
but wasn’t that more related to, well, playing like suck? :P
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
It did seem that's what he meant.
Not to mention that how would he know much about what the atmosphere has been like in the clubhouse when he’s been in Des Moines?
Acapulco Taco Pie - June 24, 2009
Not blaming Soriano...
I am just tired of seeing him swing at pitches. If i was the hitting coach, i would tell him to go up in his first AB and take every pitch. Do not swing at anything, just so he can see how many balls are thrown to him versus strikes.
HIGGY - June 24, 2009
Not defending Sori last night, but I was at the game.
He seemed to be concentrating and DID hit two balls to death valley in center/right center that likely would have been out at Wrigley.
That being said, it wasn’t any better being there in person to see this conclusion. It WAS a fairly well played game and moved along until Seay got in there and slowed the pact to a crawl.
FWIW, my wife and I got to the game and were able to upgrade our seats from 1st base/RF box to club seats 5 rows behind the plate. Fans are able to do this if they know how.
And yes, I was the Cubs fan behind the plate that was punctuating strikeouts by Cubs pitchers (Marmol especially) with an arm pump and then buried his face in his hands at the crack of Rayburn’s walk-off.
Ugh.
Zeke - June 24, 2009
His UZR is way down as well
He has to be hurt. Putting him out there every day, whether it’s an injury or just slumping, is madness.
dr stabbingworth - June 24, 2009
I do not disagree
for the most part, however the WHOLE outfield is not hitting. Please all you Bradley fans, yes hitting over .300 since late May, however 1 homerun and 7 RBI’s, and Dome is really an average outfielder who will end up hitting .260 again.
Cubs are stuck with them all for 37 million a year , and can’t move any of them. Should Soriano sit, hell yes, does he loaf his ass off, sometimes, this is Soriano. But in this day of age in Major League baseball Soriano will get a day off about once every 3 weeks.
The whole outfield sucks, as long as they play poorly the Cubs will continue to win 4, lose 3, win 2, lose 2 and so on and so on.
Grockcubs - June 24, 2009
Wow. It blows my mind that this got recommended.
Criticize Soriano for not going on the DL with his knee problem, criticize him for hitting like Neifi for the last month, whatever.
But you’re honestly calling out a guy who’s playing through pain because he thinks his team needs him right now for being lazy, and questioning his effort? I hate to break it to you but that high horse is pretty low.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
there's no
-1 button. Or I’d have done that.
I’m of the opinion that fans who accuse players of being lazy and selfish really have no freakin’ idea what they’re talking about in general.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
Joey: I think you’re the greatest, but my dad says you don’t work hard enough on defense.
Joey: And he says that lots of times, you don’t even run down court. And that you don’t really try… except during the playoffs.
Roger Murdock: The hell I don’t. LISTEN KID. I’ve been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I’m out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.
Urbanfury - June 24, 2009
Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?
wallrock - June 24, 2009
Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?
hip2bsquare - June 24, 2009
I loved Peter Graves for doing that
Once heard Robert Stack at one of my film buff conventions . He said he and Lloyd Bridges were STUNNED their agents signed for the film. While they were making it , they thought it was the dumbest thing they had ever done
( he mentioned the shit hitting the fan gag) .
The joke that got the biggest laugh when I first saw it was the Hare Krishna getting punched in the airport but now most people are too young to remember them soliciting in the airport.
PS after a lot of games this season I feel I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.
Doggie Stalker - June 24, 2009
Perspective
I usually take your posts with the correct context. You’re a cheerleader, nothing more. I’ve already gone on record as saying that I have no respect for your ability to analyze the game any further than the color of the jersey. I stand by that.
To insinuate or even blanketly state that I don’t have an idea of what I’m talking about concerning the game of baseball takes your ignorance to new heights. I’ll put it very politely…you can trust me that I’ve played at levels much higher than you might otherwise believe. You may not like my criticism but you cannot question my resume. I suggest you leave it at that.
It’s your deal if you want to simply clap your hands at everything the Cubs do. I get it, I’ve seen the post in which you claim you’re simply a Cub zealot. It’s also your deal if you want to argue every point I make just because you don’t like the messenger.
krummy12 - June 24, 2009
+1
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
Overreaction much?
Have you, personally, examined Sori’s knee?
Have you, personally, spent time in meetings with Lou and Sori?
Have you, personally, spent even a second inside the Cubs locker room?
I appreciate your experience and knowledge. Legit. All of that allows you to bring a unique, and in some cases, well informed set of opinions to this forum. However, Drew’s insinuation that you have no idea what you are talking about in terms of what is going through Sori’s head is fair. You are basically second guessing guys who’ve made a life of playing, coaching and managing at a level that i can only assume you never reached. You are doing so as though your time in a locker room somewhere give you more insight about the Cubs situation than Drew or Lou himself has. And while you may be uniquely qualified to speak on the dynamics of a baseball team in general, you don’t know any better than anybody else here what Sori’s deal is right now.
You are going to have to realize that going on record with something like that is going to cause people to take your posts with an even greater grain of salt then they might already. Pretending all opinions from a certain poster are worthless in advance is ignorant. Chances are he has at least SOMETHING good to say. Blanket ruling out everything he says will probably earn you more than your fair share of "-1’s from somebody.
AndrewJStone - June 24, 2009
But, Joey, have you ever seen a grown man naked?
sorry, I couldn’t resist
moving right along….
reedjohnson - June 24, 2009
BALONEY!
Please, you have no idea about anyone’s level of experience or knowledge with this game, but your own. The fact that you even say that you have superior knowledge, so as to dismiss a contrary opinion, shows your insecurity. Your opinions are harsh, simplistic and predictable. If you really believe that you have superior knowledge and ability to discern the problems, please feel free to tell Lou and Hendry that they are stupid, and blind. That would have to be the case if you were right with your ridiculously simplistic assessments.
The Lip - June 24, 2009
I don't care what you do or don't respect.
And I don’t care what level of baseball you played at. It means absolutely nothing. Your resume is utterly irrelevant.
People who insist that professional athletes are lazy or prideful based on watching them on TV are, in my opinion, fooling themselves.
It has nothing to do with not liking you, either. It has everything to do with your apparent inability to post ANYTHING positive. You complain about how we don’t hit, then we get hits. You don’t say “wow, we got some hits, that’s a step”, you say “we’re not getting the right kind of hits.”
I find it very amusing that, for your apparent “resume” (for which you provide no proof) that you still think baseball games are over in the 3rd inning. Even Little League goes six innings. Maybe your “level” wasn’t as high as you thought?
I seek the positive as much as possible. You seek the negative. I don’t think that makes both of us Cubs fans.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
Wow
I’m moving on from this nonsensical banter with you. It just isn’t worth it. You claim Soriano is the “best LF in the league”. Prove it. I’m on the other side, his play has spoken volumes of where he belongs in that pecking order. In any event…
People that insist every professional athlete is something other than a human being prone to frailties of all sorts whether they be laziness, apathy, boredom or carelessness is indeed even more foolish.
We get it. You “love” the Cubs. You have a man crush on Soriano. You’re utterly incapable of seeing your adult heroes as something that they really may not be. I get the comic book fantasy. Just for one second stop and think that there is a distinct possibility, and judging solely from Soriano’s body of work a probablility, that the effort just isn’t there on a regular basis.
I won’t reply concerning my resume…I don’t need to and even if I did, you’d make some snide remark about it. What’s the point? There is a much larger line than the fine one you believe exists between my complaints and my fandom for the Cubs.
krummy12 - June 24, 2009
if it isn’t worth it, why do you keep replying? Why do you keep commenting on the board?
You only ever show up when we lose or are losing. When we come from behind you disappear. You make pronouncements about players that you cannot POSSIBLY know are true.
I have no doubt that professional athletes are prone to frailties. But your conclusions are not drawn from even the evidence you have before you.
If all you wanna do is rag on the Cubs, go visit the White Sox board.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
I'm done
I will never respond to you again. You’re childish and irrational. You’re right about absolutely everything. You know much more than me. Hell, you probably were a much better player than I ever thought of being. You are the eptome of “The Man”. Way to go.
krummy12 - June 24, 2009
dood.
hyperbolic post is hyperbolic.
You can try to hide your stripes. It doesn’t work.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
and you do?
So Krummy is a bum and doesn’t know what he’s talking about and you’re totally correct?
You’d never see Domer do this, or Reed Johnson or Theriot for that matter.
A player can put out 100% effort when he’s hurt. It’s the total output that’s less than 100% but the effort is there.
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
You cannot judge if a player is prideful or selfish based on watching them on TV. Krummy isn’t a bum, I just think they’re wrong. We’ve all seen Soriano make strong plays in the past few weeks. Everyone knows his bat isn’t there. But judging the guy’s psyche is beyond whatever access any of us have, unless Krummy is a Cubs player or staff member and isn’t telling anyone.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
Not really
No, I’m not a staff member. But do I know one in some capacity…yes. That’s all I’ll say on that.
krummy12 - June 24, 2009
and
it’s still irrelevant. You have know extra knowledge. You’re just talking out your butt.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
Thank you
…for proving my point.
krummy12 - June 24, 2009
that you're talking out of your butt?
that was your point?
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
I just don't understand............
why you don’t see the obvious. I’ve been a Cub fan for 51 years, and I want them to win as badly as you, but man, why can’t you objectively see what Soriano is all about as Krummy12 thoroughly pointed out?
Clutche - June 24, 2009
because
I don’t believe it for a second. How about that? Lazy guys don’t play through injuries. Selfish guys don’t say to reporters “I’ll do whatever Lou wants me to do.” And fans can’t diagnose players through the TV.
Krummy provides absolutely no evidence for his “thoroughly pointed out” statements. That would be because there isn’t any.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
observation..........
is evidence enough for me
Clutche - June 24, 2009
"Objectively"
I don’t think that word means what you think it does.
Objectively, Soriano is an extremely good baseball player (excepting the last 2 months). Cubs fans can’t seem to accept this because he doesn’t play the game the “right” way.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
If you are not 100%...
You cannot give a 100%. Whether he is hurt, or it is his attitude, he is clearly not capable of suceeding and helping this team. if his knee is that bad, take a seat.
HIGGY - June 24, 2009
Agreed
I really don’t care if he’s hurt. If there are other guys that may be better than his 80% or whatever he is perceived to be dealing at, then they are who belongs out there. If this is how he performs at 80%, you can see what you can expect. Professional sports is a bottom line business. If you don’t produce, you should find someone that will. Not a very novel or difficult concept really.
krummy12 - June 24, 2009
Wait wait wait
I thought you were pulling a BlueMike here and invoking your real-life playing experience as expertise here?
Because if you had played I’d expect you to have a better understanding of the fact that players play hurt all the time, that this is in fact the exact opposite of laziness – that it’s actually harder work to play hurt than it is to play healthy. I’d also think you’d have an appreciation for the fact that training staffs and management are privy to a lot of information that people like us could never know, regarding recovery time, personnel implications, and injury severity.
Is it hurting the team? Maybe. And if you were saying, “He’s clearly playing hurt and needs to sit down,” that would be one thing. But what you’re doing here is sad and questionable on a whole different level, and illustrative of the broken mindset a lot of Cubs fans have.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
Nuts
You’re nuts. He’s hurting the team. That much is clear. Unless you find some silver lining in hitting in the leadoff spot at a .154 clip for over 120 AB’s. That isn’t hard to figure out in the least.
Is he playing hurt? I have an idea but not a clear one. If he is, he should sit down and let someone else play, otherwise they’d play with a 9-man roster.
I’m not using my real-life expertise in any capacity here. I don’t find that very becoming…but I was challenged a bit on my knowledge of the game and felt obligated to point out I’m not a novice.
There is a very distinct difference between being injured and playing hurt. If he’s injured, he should sit down. If he’s playing hurt, he should still be producting…or he’s not worth anywhere near the money they are paying him. After all, you said it yourself, playing hurt is implicit in every player’s contract. With one that pays him in excess of $100 million, I would expect that he plays hurt a lot and plays hurt well. Do you disagree?
krummy12 - June 24, 2009
I disagree with your characterization of him as lazy
and that this is somehow an ego issue, or this being a character issue in any way.
It’s offensive in so many ways I’m not sure where to start. That’s the problem here, not that you’re saying he’s been bad.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
great point
Because if you had played I’d expect you to have a better understanding of the fact that players play hurt all the time, that this is in fact the exact opposite of laziness – that it’s actually harder work to play hurt than it is to play healthy
Spot on.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
and there in lies the question
how much does his knee hurting him affect his swing?
I guess I wouldn’t be upset as much at him if it didn’t appear nearly every swing he was trying to knock the cover off the ball.
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
a lot
I would bet. The lower-half gets the head through the zone. Something he cannot do right now. Slow hips = slow bat. With an injury to his legs, his hips will most certainly slow. And hitting 70 MPH cream balls for BP won’t show this problem. It’s evident in the games.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
but we don't know
how much it’s effecting things. I do not find it likely that Lou would continue to play him just because Soriano is convincing him to. Of course, if Soriano were REALLY selfish, he’d sit even when he was ready.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
(psst)
You’ll drive your point much further if you check this out.
chilango2 - June 24, 2009
I always get those
mixed up. :D
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
I get those mixed up too.
Thanks for the link.
tucsoncubsfan - June 24, 2009
Soriano would never do that
Oh wait…
dr stabbingworth - June 24, 2009
not as simple as you want to make it out to be
“I feel sorry for [Soriano]. He’s really a good kid. He’s very respectful,” said one person in the Nationals organization.
Nationals shortstop Royce Clayton is one player who can relate to what Soriano is going through. After the 2000 season, the Rangers wanted to Clayton to move to second base because they were on the verge of signing free agent Alex Rodriguez. But Clayton declined and was traded to the White Sox. Unlike Soriano and the Nationals, Clayton and the Rangers were on good terms.
“I totally understand where [Soriano] is coming from,” Clayton said. “Every situation is different. Mine was extremely different from his. I think he has to make that decision for himself.”
“He’s not a bad kid. He’s quiet, plays hard. This just a situation between him and organization.”
Alphonso Soriano has ALWAYS maintained that he would do whatever Lou Piniella asked him to do.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
And he never did that
He didn’t sit out one single game because of that incident.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
No, he didn't, but it sure didn't make him look like a team player.
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
Or like a player who didn't want to pull a Mike Piazza
and completely embarrass themselves, playing a position they weren’t qualified to do so.
He’s responded to the adversity by working extremely hard to become one of the more valuable left fielders in baseball; seeing only negative aspects of his character in that situation and none of the positive is confirmation bias at work.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
All of this is true.
However, if he didn’t want to embarrass himself, as you say, why didn’t he settle the matter in private with team management?
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
the article makes it sound like he DID try to settle the matter in private with management
but he seems to have gotten screwed by the terms of the trade.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
Yeah, there's no reason to believe he didn't try
I’m not sure why you wouldn’t give Soriano the benefit of the doubt here – keep in mind this kind of thing is a two way street, and on the other end of that street was Jim Bowden. You really don’t want to be on the same street as him when he’s behind the wheel.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
Point taken.
It seemed handled badly by both parties. No wonder the Nats are such a dysfunctional organization — and Bowden isn’t even there any nmore.
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
Yeah, it's just a broken culture there
I don’t doubt Bowden was part of the problem, and I don’t get the feeling the owner is any better at running a functional organization. I can’t think of any team in baseball with a less hopeful future.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
Do you think Stephen Strasburg will make a difference for them?
Or will they:
a) fail to sign him
b) sign him, but then screw him up?
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
I think they'll overpay for him and sign him
After Aaron Crow last year, I think failing to sign Strasburg would be incredibly embarrassing. And besides – I can’t remember a #1 pick with this much hype around him since… Ben McDonald I guess?
That said, I don’t see how one player could ever save an organization that broken and depleted of talent. I’m an Orioles fan as well, and honestly they remind me of the O’s before MacPhail came in – depleted of talent at all levels, with one or two franchise guys in the majors but no hope of winning anytime soon.
He’s as close to a sure thing as is possible in baseball, but so was McDonald and he ended up having a respectable but not spectacular career. He certainly wasn’t the next Jim Palmer, like the O’s may have hoped.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
McDonald got hurt, right?
In that sense he had a Mark Prior-like career.
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
He never had a single season anywhere near as good as Prior
Prior’s 2003 season was obscene. McDonald had 6 or 7 years of above average pitching (ERA+’s in the low 100’s) so in that aspect he had a solid career – he actually reached free agency and got a big payday with the Brewers.
It was after that he started having shoulder trouble and his career quickly ended.
As an O’s fan growing up though, he was a bit of a disappointment. He never became the dominant pitcher we were promised.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
It was the hype and the subsequent injuries...
… that I was saying compared him to Prior, not any specific performance.
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
That's fair then I guess
Though I think if you mentioned Mcdonald to an O’s fan you wouldn’t get the same reaction you would from a Cubs fan if you mentioned Prior; one would shrug and change the subject, the other would probably spit.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
LOL
True enough.
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
BULLSEYE
Clutche - June 24, 2009
Much as the outcome last night SUCKED...
…Gregg simply made a bad pitch (BIG TIME, I know, and the walk hurt too), but he’s been solid lately, so hopefully we’ll bounce back from this sooner rather than later. Here’s hoping…
malicedoom - June 24, 2009
Bad pitch here and there
The reliever for the Tigers made an equally bad pitch in the 8th.
Had he not done that, Gregg wouldn’t even be closing.
I know that doesn’t make up for them blowing the game but it happens. This loss for whatever reason doesn’t hurt as badly as other this month.
ak123 - June 24, 2009
And to his credit Gregg stepped up and SAID the pitch was horses**t...
as did Zumaya’s with HIS baffling decision to throw Hoff a straight change after absolutely BLOWING him away with the heat.
And sitting behind the plate, his pitches SOUNDED as fast as they looked; 101-104mph.
Zeke - June 24, 2009
His pitches were amazing
There were more positives than negatives I think with this loss (even if its a loss).
-Marmol struck out the side
-Z had a great outing
-DLee continues to hit (imagine all the RBI’s ARam would have had if he were healthy this month)
-Hoff has stepped up.
-They have a desire to win which was lacking a while ago.
ak123 - June 24, 2009
This brings up a question I've been mulling over.
When Ramirez gets back, if Lee is still hitting the crap out of the ball, where do you bat Rami? My thought is that if Lou moves Lee back to the #3 spot, and Rami resumes his normal spot at cleanup, pitchers will just pitch around Lee to get to a rusty Aramis. Where will Lou put Ramirez in the lineup to protect him until he gets his stroke back?
Goodie1969 - June 24, 2009
Shoot....
i would keep Lee at 4 and put Rami at 3.
HIGGY - June 24, 2009
Yes, I agree.
Use Lee to protect Aramis until he’s waggin’ that tongue and hittin’ the shit outta balls, holding his bat high in his right hand watchin’ balls sail over the fences.
CAN’T WAIT
ARAMIS COME BACK! YOU’RE OUR ONLY HOPE!
dtpollitt - June 24, 2009
I always thought Rami's best production numbers came in the #5 spot
Maybe Lee stays at #4 and Rami comes in behind him at #5. If not, then it’s 3-4.
It’d be nice if MB can stay in the lineup since then I’d really like to see a Lee-MB-Rami combo.
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
This was my hope.
If Bradley’s numbers come up a bit more, and he starts hitting for power, the ideal 3-4-5 would be Lee/Bradley/Ramirez.
Goodie1969 - June 24, 2009
I agree.
In fact, why not do it NOW and hit Soto fifth? Maybe that’d help both Soto and Bradley.
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
I'll step on a limb given the Soriano debate above and
opine MB seems to be an ego driven dude. A man very concerned with how people percieve him, but easily slighted and offended. You are welcome to disagree, but I’m not looking for an argument, just staing my thoughts following Al’s thoughts on hitting MB 4th.
If my opinion is remotely accurate, MB may respond very well to being penciled in at #4 every day and get the ego boost I think he’s always looking for. Happy MB=Raking MB?
N Oakley - June 24, 2009
That'd work for me.
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
2 bad pitches = 4 runs scored
It totally sucks what happened in B9. Let’s remember the pitch Hoffpauir hit for his 2-run shot. Exactly what was Zumaya thinking of when he threw that bisquit after making him and preceeding batters look pretty bad with the 4-seamer?
I think we knew what we were getting in Gregg. Here’s to hoping he’ll have a short memory and be in the game tonight. And by that I mean the Cubs are up a run or 2 (hopefully 3 or 4) going into B9.
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
Those two homers pretty much equaled out
Our crappy no-name hits a homer off a stupid pitch. Theirs does the same thing. Maybe if we scored some runs in the first inning we wouldn’t have been in that situation.
nji232 - June 24, 2009
Agreed x 1,000
We had them on the ropes BIG TIME in the first inning and let them off the hook. If we put up 3-4 runs there, it probably would have been a completely different ballgame…
DKT - June 24, 2009
No kidding.
Bradley takes his walk, but still doesn’t get a hit with RISP. Lee grounds into what should have been a double play, but beats it out and gets an RBI. DH MH whifs and Soto weak hits for a force out.
Bases loaded no outs. Must admit at the time I was pleased to see Lee plate the single run.
N Oakley - June 24, 2009
Oh without a doubt
Good teams get more than 1 run with bags loaded, nobody out. Right now the Cubs are not a good team.
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
Funny thing is with a Zumaya-Hoffpauir
matchup you have 100mph RH fastball with sick movement against a dead red RH fastball hitter.
Don’t know about the rest of you, but that matchup had my attention well before the first pitch of the at bat.
N Oakley - June 24, 2009
Hoffpauir wasn't gonna catch that pitch
I think he was waiting on a bad breaking ball, after seeing the heat Zumaya had.
nji232 - June 24, 2009
I'm leaning forward telling my wife (who didn't care)
look at the movement on that ball. Holy sh**, 101 and its moving like that.
Anyway, I always like strength to strength matchups (and cringe when Soriano faces a RH with a hard slider).
N Oakley - June 24, 2009
I think Fox
Who really does just sit on fastballs facing Zumaya would have been fun.
nji232 - June 24, 2009
It had my attention but for the wrong reason
No way was Hoff gonna catch up to that heater. Zumaya threw a change up right in Hoff’s wheelhouse. Why on God’s green earth he’d do that when the heat was making Cubs fans look pretty lame. He did shake off the catcher, but I gotta figure it’s the catcher that should call time, go out and tell him, “look, throw the heat, keep it inner 3rd and you’re gonna get him out”. Luckily for the Cubs, he threw the change up.
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
Maybe the cather did a Crash Davis after Zumaya shook him off. It went something
like this.
Laird: Can you believe this guy Hoff? He throwing a100 mph heater that you haven’t gotten close to and he shakes me off. Time ump.
Zumaya: I wanna show him my changeup
Laird: What?
Zumaya: You know, my third best pitch.
Laird: OK big boy.
Laird(Back behind the plate): OK Hoff, here comes the changeup and when you speak of me, speak well.
willie mays hayes' gloves - June 24, 2009
According to local (Detorit) radio...
Zumaya shook-off the catcher’s signal and threw an off-speed pitch, instead of his 100 mph fastball.
Yeah, it was stupid on his part because he was blowing gas by the Cubs hitters (couple of times hitting 103 mph on the radar gun).
CubFanSince1970 - June 24, 2009
Muskat reported
that Gregg stated the ball, “…slipped out of my hand. I was hoping he would pop it up. Instead, he popped it out.” and – “…I could have it THAT out.”
Let’s face it: “It’s just a Cubbie Occurance”
The E-Man - June 24, 2009
maybe he should wipe his hand dry before he ptiches next time
nji232 - June 24, 2009
A wet ball is easier to grip
A dry ball is more likely to slip out of his hand.
dr stabbingworth - June 24, 2009
just damp, not soaking wet
It’s funny the best pitchers on my girls team are the one’s that can keep their hands dirt/sand-free the most (entire girls softball field is dirt/sand, no grass). They constantly try to wipe dirt and sand off their hands.
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
I could have it THAT out."
= I could have HIT THAT out."
The E-Man - June 24, 2009
thanks, I didn't know what the hell that meant
WanderingWanderer - June 24, 2009
Really tough loss
Cant really say anything too bad about Gregg because he has been very solid lately. I did think, though, that he got a little breaking ball happy. Through Kelly a 3-2 breaker for ball four and then threw Rayburn two weak breaking balls in a row. Never thought Rayburn would hit one out though, but thats the way the cookie crumbles.
If the Cubs continue to insist on leaving chances on the table there are going to be plenty of tough losses. We had chances yesterday to put the Tigers away early and we simply failed to do it. I believe we got the first TWO guys on in the 1st (bases loaded), 3rd (1st and 2nd) and 6th innings (2nd and 3rd), and only managed two runs. We need to take advantage of those situations and we wont need to hold 1 run leads in the 9th.
Ryanocm1 - June 24, 2009
"thats the way the cookie crumbles"?
Wha?
The best you can come up with?
The E-Man - June 24, 2009
yea kinda
Ryanocm1 - June 24, 2009
Game observations
I was able to attend the game last night (and it seemed wierd to be cheering fo the Cubs instead of the Tigers)
Some random thoughts:
Standing in line to get in at 5:30, we had to laugh at all the Cub jerseys in line with us. Looked like we were in line at Wrigley!
In batting practice, the only guys driving the ball consistently were Hoffpauir, Sori, Soto and Fox. In Fact, Fox had the biggest moonshots of any Cub! This guy has to be in the lineup (just for his bat alone). Big Z also took BP and drove a couple out. Otherwise, I was not that impressed with the Cubs in BP. Everybody hit an occassional “frozen rope”, but nothing consistent at all. They had a bevy of 4-5 coaches throw BP, and if they do this everyday how in the world do their arms hold up? I bet each coach threw over 100 pitches at least.
Big Z struggled with his command, but managed to do a good job of getting key outs when he needed them. Marmol also looked in command.
Fukudome looked really bad in first two at-bats (missing one pitch by at least a foot). Got robbed of a double (on a nice play) in his third at-bat, however.
Hoff looked silly on off-speed stuff all night (except for the HR). He handled the fastball really well from Zumaya (hitting a frozen rope foul ball down the line). The HR was a no-doubter the second it left the bat.
Blanco can really play 2b! Chased one down in foul territory that I didn’t think he could get to.
Disappointing loss and since we were wearing Cub hats, my kid and I got razzed leaving the ballpark with stuff like “must suck to be a Cub fan, huh?” etc. etc.
Will be there again tonight in Sec 103. Go Cubs!
CubFanSince1970 - June 24, 2009
"must suck to be a Cub fan, huh"
Beats living in Detroit
dr stabbingworth - June 24, 2009
Too early?
Nah
jkobus - June 24, 2009
Blanco
is a pleasure to watch in the field. He made a number of very impressive plays last night, including the two pop ups he ran pretty far out into right field to snag and the nifty double play he turned with Theriot. On the double play, Len and Bob said it looked like Theriot had resigned to getting only one out, but then Blanco turned so quickly he was able to get the double play. He has a really strong arm too.
This has been beaten to death here already, but last night was another indication why Miles has to go and Blanco should stay.
gwood - June 24, 2009
Agreed. You caught many of the things I saw there too.
And most people were polite to Cubs fans. There were a few drunks after the game making half-hearted attempts to razz Cubs fans, but it was pretty weak stuff.
I spoke with a number of Cubs fans behind home plate and several were also Michiganders who normally root for the Tigers. As we all agreed, these were the only 3 games where would wouldn’t be rooting for a Tigers win. Kinda strange.
Zeke - June 24, 2009
Hey Zeke...
if you happen to be at the game early tonight, it would be great to say hi.
I will be at the Cub’s BP session right along the Cubs dugout (in a blue t-shirt). Stop by and say hi if you get a chance.
CubFanSince1970 - June 24, 2009
Hey zeke...
Were you behind home plate last night? I’ve only read that you were three times… need a 4th for confirmation.
kanderber - June 24, 2009
nice report
I am in section 124 row 24. Will be wearing a BleedCubbieBlue shirt, either this year’s or last year’s one.
Fireworks Display starts at 10:06pm http://www.wwj.com/Detroit-Fireworks-Blast-Off-Wednesday-Night/4648103 and I hope earlier for the Cubs.
WhistlerWilliams
WhistlerWilliams - June 24, 2009
First game of the AL road trip
and Lou puts Hoff at DH. What is he thinking? He rests Bradley on Monday to get him a day off while he could’ve made Bradley the DH and essentially given him the day off last night. I may add that Bradley hits well as a DH in his career.
I know he mentioned he was going to use these games as a way to get Bradley, Lee, and Sori days off without losing their bats in the lineup. And I like that strategy, but lets see how many games he actually does this. I’m sure Lee and Sori will protest and get their way.
KaliCub - June 24, 2009
it's the way the cookie crumbles.
lexmarklover - June 24, 2009
Gregg had poor command right from the start last night.
More often than not, Hill would set up in one place, and Gregg’s pitches went over the opposite side of the plate. As I was watching with friends, we all had a bad feeling when seeing that.
SackMan - June 24, 2009
Gregg was consistently missing up with his slider
(that’s what I could tell off of Gameday after getting home late). The ball four slider to Kelly was actually in the upper part of the strike zone, per gameday, but it’s going to be tough to get that call.
The slider to Rayburn was in the same basic spot.
Oh well. I can’t fault him too much, as he had thrown in 3 of the last 4 games and has been solid most of the month.
Bill Potter - June 24, 2009
He missed just about all his spots.
Just didn’t have his best last night.
SackMan - June 24, 2009
Agreed.
He threw in every game of the Cleveland series, IIRC, and while that’s no excuse, I wonder if his arm was still a little tired as a result.
Bill Potter - June 24, 2009
If Guzman was healthy and available
He may have gotten the call last night.
SackMan - June 24, 2009
Doubtful
Piniella likes to stick to his horses and Gregg had Monday off.
chilango2 - June 24, 2009
Perhaps...
BTW… Gregg is the only active closer in baseball right now, who averages over 20 pitches per inning.
SackMan - June 24, 2009
Rec'd
so everybody is aware of that stat.
chilango2 - June 24, 2009
Great stat!
Where did you find that?
kanderber - June 24, 2009
They were discussing it on the 670 The Score this morning.
He averages somewhere around 22-23 I think? I forgot the actual number.
The only other closer who was over 20, was the guy from Seattle, who was just replaced by David Aardsma of all people.
SackMan - June 24, 2009
Who would've thunk Aardsma could become "Amsdraa"?
chilango2 - June 24, 2009
Great stat find.
Is there a stat that relates least amount of batters faced per inning for closers? I have no facts to back it up, but I don’t recall Gregg having many 1-2-3 innings as closer this year.
BigJohnAZ - June 24, 2009
Yes he did
And, so far this season, he has poor command way too much of the time for him to be an end of the game guy. For the time being, I’m trying not to use the word “closer”. I think that’s overrated and I really like what Atlanta is doing with Soriano and Gonzalez. I wouldn’t mind the Cubs using something like that.
I think that Marmol is one of those guys, but Gregg isn’t At some point, the Cubs are going to have to find some more help at the end of the game. I’m all for Gregg being the 7th inning guy though.
jerry morales rules - June 24, 2009
Marmol
One good thing I took from last night was that Marmol looked like his old self again. He was locating his fastball better and his slider was looking very White Castle-ish again last night. Hopefully he will keep it up.
gwood - June 24, 2009
Guess you missed him hit a guy.
SackMan - June 24, 2009
how often does he pitch
when he DOESN’T hit a guy. :P
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
Seems to be almost every outing
But I’d settle for that and have the rest of his pitches be unhittable.
madcow256 - June 24, 2009
which is what happened
yesterday. So maybe this is what we’ll get.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
Except for that one
:P
gwood - June 24, 2009
Good things from last night
I think we all saw the problems this team has had all year play out last night.
But D. Lee is continuing to be hot and keep this nice hitting streak. Andres Blanco is the real deal at 2nd, I dont know what reason Aaron Miles is still on this team. Zambrano really calmed himself down, after he gave up the home run and then angrily walked the next batter, and got the last 2 outs.
jkobus - June 24, 2009
I have a disturbing feeling
That if Aaron Miles goes it isn’t going to be until Rami comes back. That way you can make Fontenot and Blanco time share at 2B, keep Fox around as a backup at 3B, and get rid of Miles. Until then, it’s too easy to justify needing another backup MI….
Hilary Lee - June 24, 2009
Good point
I would be ok with that though, cause thats still (hopefully) only half a season I had to watch him, instead of 2 full seasons.
jkobus - June 24, 2009
Gallardo and The Suppans takes a hit
Dave Bush goes on the DL with a small tear of his triceps. He won’t be back until after the All-Star Break, so the Milwaukee rotation takes another blow.
Bill Potter - June 24, 2009
We see them next week, right?
chilango2 - June 24, 2009
Can I say...
…good news?
dtpollitt - June 24, 2009
Why, yes!
GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE!
Dave Bush is on the disabled list.
hip2bsquare - June 24, 2009
That's only good news
for Brewer fans.
jerry morales rules - June 24, 2009
NO
Bad Karma to celebrate other teams players getting injured .
Doggie Stalker - June 24, 2009
We've been bitten by the injury bug worse than just about any other MLB team.
dtpollitt - June 24, 2009
Possibly because we get so exicted when other teams players go down?
No, i don’t actually believe in that karma stuff. Or in cubbie luck.
Still isn’t nice.
AndrewJStone - June 24, 2009
I think the Angels and Mets would disagree with you
rlpete - June 24, 2009
I don't agree with this.
One of my old roommates is a Mets fan, and he’s convinced the Mets bit their own asses. They refused to DL players like Reyes IMMEDIATELY when there was a problem, which only prolonged the aggravation and rehab assignments. I agree. Why “wait to see what happens” when it’s only May or June? Get key guys out of the lineup and rested before they are needed down the stretch. I think the Mets are to blame for their own big injuries.
dtpollitt - June 24, 2009
Well handling the injuries versus getting them are two different issues
Yes, Ramirez was a tough blow but I really don’t think the Cubs have been hit that badly. Z only missed a few starts. Harden and Bradley are guaranteed to miss some time and neither have been extended.
The Mets now have their starting SS, CF and 1st baseman on the DL plus two of their starting pitchers and their #1 setup man on the DL. The Angels starting pitching woes have been well documented. In addition, you have the Jays who put two starting pitchers including Roy Halladay along with their closer on the DL within a couple of days of each other. The D-Backs lost Brandon Webb for the season and Conor Jackson is now on the 60 day DL.
I’m not saying the Cubs have gotten off easy but I don’t think the Cubs have been hit that much worse.
rlpete - June 24, 2009
Fair enough. SS and 1B were their own faults, however. The Cubs have been bitten worse than “just about” any other team. I think the Mets & Cubs have been hit the worse.
dtpollitt - June 24, 2009
I disagree.
I’m not sure the Cubs have lost players for much longer than they did last year. (Remember, Soriano was out for quite a while with a broken hand.)
Z missed a couple of starts and Harden missed a few weeks and that’s been about it for their main players on DL time.
They’ve had some nagging type injuries but I’m not sure more than most teams. D-Lee missed maybe a toatal of 10 games and Bradley missed a week a couple of different times.
I just don’t think the Cubs injury situation has been worse than teams. Off-hand I’d say the Cardinals, Padres, D-Backs , Mets have been hit the same or worse than the Cubs.
cowsarecool220 - June 24, 2009
Our $30M man sure doesn't play every day.
He’s “injured” often.
dtpollitt - June 24, 2009
Well, Carlos Beltran is making oodles of money
and he’s on the DL, likely for quite a while.
Personally, I don’t think the biggest issue for the Cubs this season is missing players due to injury. I think it’s simply players playing poorly.
cowsarecool220 - June 24, 2009
Met fans beg to differ.
Doggie Stalker - June 24, 2009
It probably means Parra gets recalled from Triple-A.
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
Yep.
July 2-5 in a four-game set.
Bill Potter - June 24, 2009
My key
to the game was bases loaded in the 1st, get one run in on a freaking groundout.
This team continues to hit so poorly with men on base.
I am down on this outfield, they are dragging this team down.
Grockcubs - June 24, 2009
+1
Absolutely agree. Bases loaded and no outs… Lee got a lucky call on that grounder, otherwise it would’ve stung worse.
chilango2 - June 24, 2009
My three
highlights from last night are DLee continuing to hit, Blanco’s “D” is fantastic and Hoff’s homerun. Please win tonight.
sue369 - June 24, 2009
What is the Cubs longest hitting streak?
Madison Cub Fan - June 24, 2009
Jerome Walton in '89?
Not sure, that’s just a guess.
kanderber - June 24, 2009
Walton and Charlie Grimm both had 30
Link
SackMan - June 24, 2009
Walton it is
chilango2 - June 24, 2009
Dahlen did it when we were called the Chicago Colts
SackMan - June 24, 2009
Thanks guys thats an interesting list :)
Madison Cub Fan - June 24, 2009
Walton broke the post-1900 record...
… which had been held by Ron Santo (28 games in 1966).
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
when you are scuffling
you gotta find a way to win that game. Gregg’s performance was inexcusable. It was a performance of a loser. To throw a 3-2 slider to the first batter is a disgrace. And then hang the same damn pitch to a guy who was sitting for 3 hours is plain brutal.
That being said, I have a terrible feeling in my gut that this team is 6-8 games out when this road trip is over. Unfortunately, a good team “on paper” is certainly not a good team “on the field” with all the under-performances at just about every position.
Hurry up Rami. This team needs your bat and persence inthe lineup.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
So closers have to never blow a save so that they aren't a "loser"
Now I don’t think Kevin Gregg is ever going to be a AS pitcher. But even Rivera has lost or a game or two on a bad pitch. His biggest failure came during an ALCS.
Madison Cub Fan - June 24, 2009
c'mon
that’s not what I said. His performance had “loser” written all over it. Pleas read the first line—when a team is scuffling—you gotta win. Period. He has to find a way to get it done. He didn’t. This is how teams wonder why they are 10 games out in September—blowing games that they pulled out of a hat. There are certain times when a team “just has to win” the game. The Cubs are at that point—they cannot afford to blow games where the meager offense actually clutches up and pull sone out versus the one of the best set up guys in basbeall.
For an analogy—did you see the Bears versus Falcons last year? Playoff team win those games. 6-10-type teams lose those games.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
Your first line doesn't make sense
they’re scuffling because they can’t find a way to win these games.
He blew it. It isn’t the first time, and it probably won’t be the last. That’s the nature of the closer beast.
chitownhawkeye - June 24, 2009
so
you say I don’t make sense and essentially just reversed what I wrote? Whatever. They ARE scuffling (around .500) and you GOTTA find a way to win that game. I still don’t see a problem with what I wrote.
The way he pitched, his game-plan, approach, and execution were that of a total loser. If you don’t have your command, then come up with a “Mithc Williams Wild Thing Save” instead of grooving a slider. And I was not referring to the closer only, but the overall make-up of the team and their current standing.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
you gotta TRY to find a way to win that game.
we were four pitches, ideally, away from that. He blew the save. it happens. It sucks. The ball slipped in his hand. It’s not like he went up there and said “How do I blow this game”…
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
I didn
socalbob - June 24, 2009
weird that it posted as I was typing
I never said anything remotely close to what you wrote, It’s not like he went up there and said "How do I blow this game"…
This is the big leagues, the ball CANNOT slip in his hands. He can’t let that happen. He hung the 3-2 pitch for a lead-off BB, so I am to assume that one slipped too? Well, if so, then make the adjustment so you don’t hand another one. He didn’t and we lost. Teams that come up with excuses usually don’t amount to much.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
oy-vey.
He made a mistake. You do your best to avoid mistakes, but sometimes they happen. For example, I cannot go ice-skating and say “I will never fall down.” All I can say is “I will do my best to not fall down.” And if I fall down, then what?
It’s not an excuse. The ball slipped. He shouldn’t have let it. But it happened. I don’t know what you expect to happen. He’ll try to keep the ball from slipping next time. But it could happen again.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
thanks
this is pointless.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
How is him explaining what happened an excuse?
Where did he say it wasn’t his fault?
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
you are okay
with a “the ball slipped” explanation? I’m not. Especially with rosin bags, dirt, etc available to keep his hand dry. Also, he apparently let the previous 3-2 slider he threw “slip” as well and it hung worse than the HR. So he didn’t adjust. I’d be better off with a “I threw a lousy pitch and it cost us the game” instead of throwing in an “it slipped” excuse. My son in t-ball can use an it slipped, but I expect more from a MLB player.
The main point is we need someone to step up. He didn’t and had the ball in his hands to make a difference. It’s deflating. I don’t know how else to say it.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
Balls slip all the time - the world's an imperfect place.
Your reaction is strange and hilarious. He said it was a bad pitch – he said even I could have hit that pitch out. He explained what happened, and in no way failed to take credit for losing the game.
Your reaction is as bizarre as it is silly.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
bizzare and silly
please explain? Because I don’t accept his excuse? I accept physical errors as long as a mental error did not proceed it. I believe he didn’t mentally adjust and ended up throwing another hanger up there. This isn’t about living in an imperfect world.
The Cubs need wins and losing these types of games are killers.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
I think its being viewed as bizzare and silly...
… because you are trying to take his explanation and make it in to an excuse. Gregg wasn’t making excuses. He was explaining why the pitch was bad.
AndrewJStone - June 24, 2009
Yes
It’s an incredible overreaction. He messed up, he shouldn’t have, he admitted as much and explained exactly what happened.
Trying to twist that into somehow showing that he’s a “loser” is just kind of sad.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
wreckard
talk about over-reaction. Jeez. I said his performance was that of a “loser”—it was a brutal perofrmance. I did not call him a loser or twist anything. He has been rather good lately, but looked awful last night.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
he was doing fine
till the HR.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
you sure?
he walked the lead-off batter missing on a 3-2 slider. A very questionable pitch selection to say the least. So he wasn’t doing fine.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
Marmol hit a guy, too. And he was on. Gregg walking a batter is something we should expect, and be happy when he doesn’t.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
I do not agree with that
he has been walking a lot less batters lately and I expect him to continue that trend. I won’t be happy if he averts back to the BB’s. Throwing a 3-2 slider to a lead-off hitter with a 1-run lead is highly questionable. Especially given it is his 2nd or 3rd best pitch. Brenly said it best—throw it out over the plate and let them take you out to CF.
If you are okay with him and his walks, that’s your choice.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
That pitch was actually a strike.
That slider you keep harping on caught the corner by at least a couple of inches. It was umpire error, he can’t control for that.
That’s not an excuse by the way. Just a reason.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
no
that pitch was not close and has never been called a strike since the umps went away from the balloon protector. I take it you did not see the game then.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
Is this the pitch you're talking about?
JohnM - June 24, 2009
yep
high and probably outside and it hung and spun with no bite. BALL 4. Take your base.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
Hmm
Looks pretty much right down the middle. Near the top of the zone, sure, but in it.
JohnM - June 24, 2009
if you
want to do the “square box” strike zone from arm pits to knees and corner to corner using laser technology, then it was “close.” Watching the game live, not 1 player, coach, or fan, thought it was close to a strike. The batter immediately took off for 1B and Hill threw it back without any type of perplexed look from Gregg. And pitch 8 above was clearly a ball that the batter flailed away at and pitch 9 is damn near right on top of that one.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
No ump calls armpits
And pitch 8 was way high.
But Ball 4 was just above the belt, as Bob described it, and as it looks on the graphic which I believe is accurate. Nobody visibly complained, although Len called it close.
Looked like a strike to me.
JohnM - June 24, 2009
The problem here
you guys are trying to show visual evidence to pack up your statement.
Where as socalbob knows he’s right from what he saw on his tv last night.
Madison Cub Fan - June 24, 2009
Why use Pitch F/X at all
Socalbob can just tell people after the fact. Clearly this objective system of measurement is simply wrong.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
the game is not umpired
that way. I’m all for Questec, but it’s not the way balls and strikes are called. Pitch #9 would not be called a strike by any umpire in any game today. I’d love to see the strike zone enforced as I think umps miss a lot of breaking pitches.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
Pitch 9 was called a strike by that umpire earlier in the game
And this is Pitch F/X, the Questec system is less accurate and no longer used.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
the pic is distorted
you realize that right? Home plate is wider than 3 baseballs.
Pitch F/X or Questec or whatever new technology would be developed, I would be in favor of.
I don’t know what pitch you are referring to that was called a strike earlier, but a spinning hanging breaking ball around the letters is 99% called a ball, not a strike. I would say 100%, but you are offering another pitch contrary to what I wrote. Had that pitch broke about 3-4 inches down, it would have been called a strike. Did you see thegame live or did you watch via Game Cast?
socalbob - June 24, 2009
Yes I know how to read a Pitch F/X diagram
Here’s a breakdown of all balls and strikes called in the game (hat tip to ACB).
You can see there were 4 pitches thrown within an inch or two of Gregg’s. 1 of the 4 was called a strike.
Are you asking if I was in Detroit last night? No, I was not. Otherwise if it came down to my personal recollection of something I saw on television vs a tracking system with incredibly high accuracy, I think I know which one I’d believe.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
Awesome avatar, Wreckard
JohnM - June 24, 2009
wasn't being snarky with you
sorry if it came off that way. I feel the picture distorts that actual pitch on those screens. JohnM said the pitch was right down the middle and in the diagram he attached I would agree. Viewing the pitch live it was an outer 3rd at best pitch and your link shows it was a borderline corner pitch.
At no point on that pitch did I think McClellan was going to call him out on that 3-2 pitch. It was high the whole way and was outside edge. That was why I asked if you saw it live or watched via computer. Just trying to understand your perspective.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
You are twisting it
Though I’m starting to suspect it’s because you have strange ideas what the word “excuse” means.
If an outfielder slips and falls and can’t get to a ball, and later says, “Yeah, I couldn’t get to that ball because I slipped and fell,” is he explaining what happened or giving an excuse?
You seem to think that by explaining people are deferring responsibility.
Wreckard - June 24, 2009
maybe we have a dissenting view
on “excuse” and what it means.
I think some explanations tend to defer responsibility.
To answer your OF scenario, there would have to be more details provided.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
nothing
in Gregg’s statements appear to be an attempt to defer responsibility.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
to me
“it slipped” changed the entire explanation from just a bad pitch to an excuse.
It’s my opinion and I know you don’t agree and you haven’t shown me anything to change my view. So, it’s cool. We agree to disagree.
BTW, last night’s example is one for this entire season. My main point was nothing has gone right all year and when something does go right, we must capitalize at all costs. Again, as we have seen in ’09, this did not happen.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
Bob
I would hate to be employed by you, but if I made one mistake and tried to honestly tell you why I did that….. have you get on my case and say this one little example is why my whole body of work is bad.
Madison Cub Fan - June 24, 2009
nice leap
please read where I wrote Gregg has been rather good lately. I don’t see how criticizing a mistake, as you offer, would translate into the entire body of work being bad. That’s garbage, Madison, as I never came close to stating anything remotely similar in nature.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
when he says
“it slipped” that turned it into an excuse, did it not?
“I made a poor pitch with horrible location hanging a slider to Raburn” is an explanation and there is no excuse included.
This team has lacked in star-type players or plays all year and need any help they can get. A loss like yesterday is filled in the record books with 2nd and 3rd place finishes. As today stands, we cannot afford these losses at any cost.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
"I made a poor pitch with horrible location hanging a slider to Raburn"
BECAUSE IT SLIPPED.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
I don't think anyone disagrees with your last statements
Yes. Losing these types of games ARE killers.
But everyone makes mistakes, mental and physical. Why can you accept one kind and not accept another?
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
there is a HUGE gap between
physical and mental errors.
Physical error – fielding a ground ball and throwing it in the seats.
Mental error – fielding a groundball in the hole by Carl Crawford after taking 4 steps to the right, jumping in the air doing a Jeter-half pirouette and launching it 10 rows up past 1B.
Physical error – throwing a ball in the seats
Mental error – Bradley throwing ball in the seats with 1 out and a runner tagging up
One is physical and sometimes players make errors. The mental error could have been averted by understanding the situation before the ball was even hit.
It’s all the Cubs baserunning blunders over the last few years that could be avoided. I believe Gregg didn’t mentally prepare before his pitch to Raburn.
socalbob - June 24, 2009
ok.
I believe you’re looking for an answer to a question that doesn’t really exist.
It was a mistake. A mistake is a mistake.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
who gives a shit
it’s gone!
junkhorse - June 24, 2009
precisely.
:D
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
blame the offense for only getting 1 run with the bases loaded, then HR wouldnt have mattered
jesus christos - June 24, 2009
Sadly
I have to agree. Right now this team does not hit on the road when it counts. They have struggled against good teams.
Cubs get 3 runs in the first last night, changes the whole complexion of the the game.
Grockcubs - June 24, 2009
You bet
I’m still more concerned about the lack of clutch hitting than Gregg screwing up last night. Let’s hope his memory is short and he can get the “Sv” tonight.
blackhawk24 - June 24, 2009
Are there any closers currently available to sign?
Cubs and Hawks fan - June 24, 2009
Uh... Jose Mesa?
j/k
hip2bsquare - June 24, 2009
Ugueth Urbina
still serving his time? Maybe we can get him on work release.
DamonBerryhillsMitt - June 24, 2009
Available to sign?
Are you serious? Would you really want the Cubs to sign someone who has been sitting around and not pitching and install them as closer?
rlpete - June 24, 2009
Did I mention anywhere
to sign someone who isn’t playing? NO I didn’t, don’t assume. I’m asking if there’s a current closer, on a team, who will be an FA soon, or if a team is shopping a closer.
Cubs and Hawks fan - June 25, 2009
Even if I did mean that
they can’t be much worse than our current closer.
Cubs and Hawks fan - June 25, 2009
Should we bring Cotts back up??
Cubs and Hawks fan - June 24, 2009
Good heavens, why?
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
Because the Universe hates Cubs fans
dr stabbingworth - June 24, 2009
That was a joke
Cubs and Hawks fan - June 25, 2009
Yesterday it was Vitters
and today it’s Cotts? Oh boy.
sue369 - June 24, 2009
Oh Sue
you always make me laugh.
Cubs and Hawks fan - June 25, 2009
What concerned me the most about last night's game
was Soto leaving due to an injured thumb. He said in one of the papers that he was okay but that’s what players usually say whether it’s true or not.
Soto has been playing like himself lately (throwing out runners, hitting for power) and it’s a big concern if he has a “lingering phyiscal issue” such as an injured thumb.
cowsarecool220 - June 24, 2009
he injured that hand
last year. Did his bottom hand come off the bat when he was swinging yesterday?
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
I believe so.
That’s what concerns me. It appears to be the same kind of injury that bothered Geo at the end of last year.
cowsarecool220 - June 24, 2009
yeah
he was having the same problem earlier in the season. Brenly has talked about how that kind of injury never goes away.
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
I like
Geo, but he still looks like he is carrying about 15lbs to many. I thought by this time of the season he would of shed some weight.
Putting Hill in the lineup is another automatic out.
Grockcubs - June 24, 2009
I'm having a hard time remembering at the moment...
…but Bob Brenly made some pretty insightful comments that made me go, “Hmph, I didn’t think of that. Good point.” I think Brenly’s really developed into a great commentator, but I think it’s clear that he’s got the itch to coach again. I was a bit unsure when he came over to WGN, but now I’m real glad to have him in the booth with Len.
Dan
dtpollitt - June 24, 2009
I don't think Bob's going anywhere anytime soon.
He’s having too much fun getting to see his son play in the minor leagues. If he took a managing job, he would no longer get to see him play. I don’t hink he’d give that up.
cowsarecool220 - June 24, 2009
unless he went to manage
his son’s team!
drewishdrewid - June 24, 2009
When Lou retires, I wouldn't mind seeing Brenly manage the Cubs
Of course, that’s something of a moot issue seeing as the organization is grooming Ryno for that position.
hip2bsquare - June 24, 2009
Took me a while to accept it but,
Brenly’s baseball aptitude is off the charts.
BT Ichib - June 24, 2009
Actually Bob & Len work
for the Cubs not WGN. When WGN, CSN or WCIU do the games those two do the boradcasts for the Cubs.
sue369 - June 24, 2009
4 runs are great
but going 0-8 RISP sucks. Should’ve never been an issue of Gregg’s bad pitch.
Allie - June 24, 2009
As noted above...
… the key to the game was not having a big inning when they got the bases loaded with nobody out in the first.
Al Yellon - June 24, 2009
Situational hitting continues to be the downfall of this team. You have got to get the runner in
from third with less than two outs. Shorten up your stroke and put the ball in play. It is inexcuseable to strikeout with a runner on third and less than two outs. You can swing for the fences on strike one or two, but you have to put the ball in play if you have two strikes on you. This team has got to be the worst situational hitting team I’ve seen in a while.
willie mays hayes' gloves - June 24, 2009
I read somewhere that the 2009 Cubs
had the worst percentage of scoring a runner from 3rd with less than 2 outs than any Cubs team in the last 10 years.
cowsarecool220 - June 24, 2009
Can't say I'm disagreeing and scouring the interwebs to
prove you wrong. Sounds plausible to me based on what I’ve seen.
N Oakley - June 24, 2009
I wish I remembered where I read that....
drat my bad memory!!!
cowsarecool220 - June 24, 2009
I agree.
It’s been a problem all season so far.
sue369 - June 24, 2009
You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Bleed Cubbie Blue to post a comment.