Bleed Cubbie Blue

This mentality is getting old.

He is struggling, but we’ve got him and we’ve got a lot invested in him. He isn’t going away, so we may as well put him in against somebody he’s .350 against and see if he can get it going.

I’d rather not see players doing poorly as well. I’d love to field a team full of .300 hitting guys who play perfect defense and help old ladies cross Addison after the game. That isn’t what we’ve got. Hoping to NOT see somebody who the cubs are stuck paying a lot of money to for quite some time on a day where he may be able to contribute is redic.

by that logic

we should keep playing Miles

Not really...

… the team pays Miles $2.2 million in 2009 and $2.7 million in 2010.

The team pays Bradley $5 million this year, in 2010: $9 million, and in 2011: $12 million.

We are 6x more invested in Bradley, and for a greater period of time. Bradley shows promise and has a history of, at times, pretty incredible play. There is a difference and you know it. One is worth trying to salvage (i cringe saying that, as he’s been not NEARLY as bad as many haters on here would like to claim) while the other could never been heard from again and nobody would notice.

don't forget the bonus we've already paid. $4M I think?

No doubt that Baker and Johnson will be playing vs Moyer...

JB 23 - July 22, 2009 reply

here's to a 5-2 road trip...

go get ’em Z!!!

12to23to17 - July 22, 2009 reply

here is some good news from Gordo

Dempster threw sim game couple days earlier than planned, could start sunday if thurs x-ray good.

JB 23 - July 22, 2009 reply

I missed this morning's festivities

Who’s ready to slit their throats? Who’s saying “I told you so”? Who’s optimistic? Meh, I already know… Never mind.

It is getting pretty crowded on the ledge.

I’m worried we may lose a few to bad footing. Such a shame, considering we are smack dab in the middle of a very winnable division.

Without looking:

BLou: “This is a 79-win team. I’ve given up and so should you. Lou’s an idiot.”

dewishdewid: “I know better than you. This team will go all the way and if you don’t agree with me, leave because this is baseball. I am a true fan and you’re not for saying [such and such about a certain player].”

with all respect

I’ve never said any of that.

he was obviously paraphrasing

but he got the sentiment right

of course

you think that.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

It always is

CubsBullsBears - July 22, 2009 reply

you mean because you actually accused me of being a non-fan

because I wasn’t happy about the loss? Yep. I have first hand knowledge

no

you’re a non-fan because you predict failure and root for it.

I’m on to your game. You’ll deny it, but there it is.

LOL

yep, I’ve followed the Cubs for 30 years as a non-fan

sweet sweet pollyannas

uh-huh

BLou has “followed” the cubs for 30 years too.

people like you crack me up

if we don’t root for the team in the exact same way as you, we’re not fans. Luckily I don’t base my fanhood as how you see it.

Believe me or not, it matters very little to me.

you don't "root" at all

it's interesting that your side is always the one who claims others aren't fans

I on the other hand, understand that there are different ways of being a fan

With all due respect

I went back and read those game threads, and you and the other guy were predicting the Cubs to lose, and actually telling Drew he would be wrong. The other guy then went on to request that Drew admit he (the other guy) was right that the Cubs would lose. Honestly, I think for a fan to out and out want the team to lose just so they can be right is pretty tacky, and reeks of someone being on the bandwagon at one point and now jumping off.

mas⋅och⋅ism - [mas-uh-kiz-uhm, maz-] - noun

Gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one’s own actions or the actions of others, esp. the tendency to seek this form of gratification.

Wow

Drew got sick of pointing out how right he was and wrong BLou was so I guess your next WW. B/c you can’t be a fan if you wonder about how they’ve struggled.

B/c in his 10 years of fandom he knows more about how to cheer for them better than us

if people were

cheering, it wouldn’t be a problem.

it's only a problem for you because you need everyone to be on your page

I love Soto

Serously last summer I was going to start a webpage for my fandom. This season I still love him. I refer to him as my boy. But he has struggled in the first half. I said he did. Just like I would watching a friend play softball in real life.

That is my idea of being a fan. For you to question how much I love the Cubs…….. is one of the reasons the board isn’t as much fun as it use to be.

When I want to state my opinion about someone struggling I am a hater. In my 20 plus years of being a Cubs fan…. besides you no besides you has ever question my fanhood in real life or on a message board.

not at all.

there’s a big difference between saying “someone is struggling” and “this team sucks, they can’t win, there’s no way they can contend, Lou is an idiot, Bradley is garbage”, etc, etc, etc.

Tell me where I’ve questioned your fanhood. Show me. I haven’t done it, because you don’t DO the things that people who really don’t give a darn about this team do.

The game threads on this board when the team is losing are Lord of the Flies. It makes me physically ill. And I resent the fact that a place that was created to CELEBRATE the Cubs has turned into a place to HATE the Cubs.

'bradley is garbage'

is not much removed from ‘bradley is struggling’. a bit more expressive perhaps, but that’s it. the vile fanpost from last night is a different level. but the cubs have been struggling, have been stinking up the joint, and have been sucking.

And yet somehow remain only a breath from the division lead.

See? Gray area. You don’t have to be on the ledge, calling everyone garbage and lobbying for Ricketts to bulldoze the Cubs and everyone involved.

but if one really thinks the best method

of repairing the club would be to dismantle it, then that certainly doesn’t make him or her less of a fan.

It makes him or her ill informed, though.

$100 million dollar teams are not “dismantled”. NTC clauses and un-tradable contracts aside, you just don’t see teams like the Yanks or Red Sox rebuilding after a “bad” year (by their standards). They try to plug the holes and win again next year.

it wouldn't happen all at once.

the farm system and scouting certainly needs to be improved, and i don’t think calling for an overhaul there is a bad idea; furthermore, the philosophy behind the big league club is also proving to be incredibly inefficient and i would argue that it also needs to be revised.

YES!

See, now that sort of comment is insightful and well thought out. You are right… we have a tiny scouting department, and the cubs minor league system needs work. Well put.

Now, consider the average BLou “fire everyone, they are all garbage” comment and note the difference. That is what is annoying.

the message is the same; the rhetoric is

different.

Exactly...

… one is worth everyone’s time, the other isn’t.

I don't want to bulldoze them

But I think they are damn lucky they aren’t in west or east. B/c here they have a chance to get hot in September and make a run.

But in my heart of hearts did I think they’d pull it out. I hoped so, but with RISP I seriously had doubts. I wish I didn’t. Really I do.

Right.

the “true fans” are the ones who are never find fault with anything the Cubs do and continue to mindlessly cheer.

Losses don’t phase the “true fan”.

The rest of us are obviously not "true fans’ because we’re bummed out when the Cubs lose.

I’ve been living and dying with the Cubs since 1971 but, since I don’t mindlessly cheer for everything the Cubs do, I’m obviously not a “true fan”.

I'm not a true fan because I hate Ryan Theriot.

Exactly

You can’t be a “true fan” you love all Cubs-they should be like your children.

sue-ish.

and we have to be reminded of it EVERY SINGLE TIME the Cubs lose

It was cute at first. But it’s gotton old,

My cousin has a 4 year old and if you don’t play right with her dollies.. .she stomps off b/c you aren’t playing right. Her mom is teaching her to be more tolerent. So that when she goes to school next year she doesn’t get into fights.

There are shades of gray...

… and it doesn’t seem like Drew is lashing out at anybody who sees them.

Its the black and white “either the team wins every game, leads the division, and sweeps through the playoffs or they suck and should be blown up” posters that get his wrath. BLou, posting the same 15 sound bites about the failures of this team repeatedly for the better part of this season will wear on anybody.

I guess it's all in how you look at it

I understand that constant negativity can be a little wearying but, at the same, time, I find it equally annoying when people bend over backwards to never point out any flaws-and many of these same people have an annoying tendency to hold themselves up as better fans because they’re not critical.

+1

Agreed.

But i don’t think he’s ever pretended to be a better fan of anybody who seems to legit care if the cubs win or lose.

Without naming names, we all know who only shows up after a loss. We all know who won’t acknowledge a good game or series. At least Drew is here win or lose, contributing new thoughts and ideas, rather than just lamenting the poor showing this season. Everyone is far to hard on him for his positivity.

sure he does. he thinks he's a real fan because he has faith.

And he's wrong?

I’m not saying ANYBODY here isn’t a real fan. I’m not even trying to have the “who is a fan” debate. I’m not sure what your point even is, in fact.

i was simply addressing your first claim.

i don't think that's accurate.

he gets on anybody with a pessimistic attitude.

Not from what i've seen.

He gets on anybody with a pessimistic attitude who neglects to back up their pessimism with facts, who refuses to see the positive when its there, who only shows up when things are bad.

guess it depends on what facts you're looking for

He claimed we battled the Phillies to a standstill, and should then be happy about last night. We didn’t actually do that, we lost. Is that backing up his opinion with facts?

I did not say that

I said:

While it stunk on ice to lose last night

we fought the hottest team in baseball to a standstill last night. Sure, we didn’t find a way to win, but neither did they, till Spellcheck made one mistake.

We’ll get ’em today.

yes. but they did find a way to win.

and it was on a rocket.

that's the part where I say

but neither did they, till Spellcheck made one mistake.

I’m not happy about yesterday’s game. But to deny that we played better yesterday then we did the day before is wrong. I think it’s better to take SOMETHING positive away from a loss then it is to wallow in the depression.

SHADES OF GRAY.

There was a silver lining in last nights loss. Ignoring it is irresponsible as a fan.

If the team wins, and one aspect of the team fails during that win, it is discussed. Why should the opposite not be true as well?

last night was emblematic of the season.

the pitching was very good; the offense was very bad, and lou was again suspect. run of the mill.

This

or those who are pessimistic right out of the gate. A better example is the crowd who thinks the Cubs can’t win before the game even starts, or if the opposing team scores a run in the first inning.

I still get a chuckle thinking about the..

… “this game is OVAH” game thread. I don’t even remember the game or the opponent or the score, i just remember several proclamations of the games ovah-ness in the early innings, and those proclaiming it failing to be around come the 8th inning as the cubs rallied to win.

I love when that happens.

sue369 - July 22, 2009 reply

I'm not necessarily pointing at any one person here

But, at the same time, it’s not up to any one person here to make the the call on who’s being “Too pessimistic”, etc.

As long as people don’t resort to persoanl attacks, I say all opinions should be respected.

Drew's pretty black-n-white himself

I'm not worried if we lose a few.

More beer for the rest of us!

+ i hate the fair weather

heine41 - July 22, 2009 reply

I was told there would be no math.

But lemme at that beer…

Clutch16 - July 22, 2009 via mobile reply

you have to be able to count to 3 outs if you wanna be on THIS squad

12to23to17 - July 22, 2009 reply

Save some Shipyard for me.

If it means more beer...

… i’m willing to start pushing.

Just how far (and who) are you willing to push?

Is that your hand I see on the right, going for her knee? Sweep the leg, Andy! Sweep the leg!!! ;-)

I HAVE to get up to that thing.

All the photos look incredible.

A day game.... huzzzzah!!!

As the resident old-country fan, I support 6pm games compared to midnight or later!

sanantonecub - July 22, 2009 reply

Days better in Germany too

Ah, a 7:05PM start here in Germany. Sehr gut!

OTOH, sometimes I can listen/see the last part of some games between 6 and 7 AM while I get ready for work.

eths - July 22, 2009 reply

Funny bit with Moyer

Last night Phillies scoreboard ran a little thing with players being asked who should play them in a movie, some chose guys who looked like them others guys they would like to look like ( Charlie Manual wanted Gary Cooper to play him) but Moyer’s choice got the biggest laugh, the late Jim Varney aka Ernest and there really was a resemblance.

Doggie Stalker - July 22, 2009 reply

I hope "Ernest does something stupid" today

Like give up 11 runs in the top of the first.

Blue W - July 22, 2009 reply

The Cubs can go on a 5-2 road trip with a win today

Not bad at all. Maybe some of us overreacted yesterday.

Cubbiegoon - July 22, 2009 reply

People overreact after every loss

But it’s never good to lose a series.

Shanghai Badger - July 22, 2009 reply

Last night had some "special" overreactions

I assume at least one poster is no longer with us.

Clutch16 - July 22, 2009 via mobile reply

Wittenmeyer

Mark it down: Bradley back … In the lineup. Cubs vs. Moyer: ReJo, Riot, Lee, Rami, Milty, Sori, Baker, Hill, Z.

no fox again.

he would be good against Moyer. Soriano is going to be mystified.

Ryanocm1 - July 22, 2009 reply

fox likes fastballs, i just don't know if he likes 80 mph fastballs

Soriano likes fastballs too

but WE knowhe doesnt like soft tossing crafty pitchers. Hope Im wrong, I think we need to see Fox’s bat more.

Ryanocm1 - July 22, 2009 reply

yeah, likely to be an ugly day for soriano.

he doesn’t do well against crafty.

.344 vs righty
.269 vs lefty

Fox likes facing righties.

SackMan - July 22, 2009 reply

don't like it at all.

At least Koyie Hill's legs probably aren't tired.

And don’t they always say that as the legs go, so goes the swing?

There was really...

No swing to “go”.

CubsBullsBears - July 22, 2009 reply

He had a couple decent swings late night, I'll grant him that.

Is Hill going to have any knees left?

Starting 14 hours after catching for 13 innings. Sheesh.

I can see not wanting to use Fox unless necessary, but I’d consider a day game after an extra-inning night game “necessary”.

Clutch16 - July 22, 2009 via mobile reply

definitely.

lou continues to baffle me.

Hill's offense leaves a bit to be desired...

but I got to give him credit for all these innings and still calling a good game last night

he doesn

he doesn't baffle me, he's not a good manager

bad managers make bad decisions

I was reminded the other day

That not only did Lou not get a 97 win to the playoffs… that he didn’t a 103 win team either.

I really had hope for him especially last year.

Um, yeah, Lou did get a 97-win team to the playoffs.....

true he got them there

Which I was excited about, but neither of them made the WS….

which I hadn’t thought about.

agreed MCF

I really thought last year would be the year. I was over confident when DeRo hit that bomb the first game.

Heartbreaking….

I was overly confident that we would win at least one game

boy did I feel stupid

me too

I actually thought they’d win the series. NLCS would be the test. I really thought it was the year. I spent my whole day each game just waiting for the game to start.

But they suck? Yes and I was so disappointed. But I guess the disappointment of 89, 03 were worse than that. BUt I’ve kept watching them this year, haven’t given up on that.

But just b/c we have lived thro that and stayed watching them isn’t enough. Nor is spending time on a board talking about them.

So I guess if that makes both of us non-fans on bcb my real life everone knows I am and that is what counts.

Maddie

I have never said that, and I’m saddened that you think I think that.

the sweep last year was crushing. It’s the one time I’ve taken my “believe” wristband off in three years.

Once again. Show me where I’ve ever questioned your fan-hood. The difference between you and others is that you don’t relish when we lose. You don’t call players names. We all recognize that the Cubs are struggling. Some of us decide that means that there’s no hope at all. I think that’s wrong.

I took all my Cubs stuff down into my storage closet

and was totally bummed out. This season I just CANT have the same optism. I’d like to really…. I would. I have tried.

But I sometimes need to just state that they are sucking and that good decisions aren’t being made.

I want nothing more than to be wrong and them to get hot and have a fun October.

But I can’t stand being questioned on why I think that for example a series against the worst team in the in the league isn’t a good measuring stick for how they are doing.

Most Triple A teams could be the Nats. How their offense did good during the Nats series. Not looking at the whole picture of the season. The Cubs rate almost LAST in almost all offense categories. That makes me thinks the Cubs will continue to struggle on offense. Just like after 90 games last year I thought they’d continue kicking ass on offense

I will say this

and I’m guilty of it too, but it really feels like grasping at straws when you talk about how well the Cubs played against the Nats. I would have liked that to mean more than it did, and I think I made that series sweep out to mean more than it did. If they did that against someone contending for the WC or even a 2nd or 3rd place team, then it would be something to be really happy about.

By the way

when I say “you”, I don’t mean you directly, Madison.

eh, i didn't really feel very good, but then i always feel

like we’re going to blow it.

I'm sure everyone thought the Cubs would win at least one game

in the series. Most thought we should’ve won the NLDS.

WTF...

No Fox?

CubsBullsBears - July 22, 2009 reply

We're saving his bat for the playoffs.

game FOUR of the playoffs

That line was almost as dumb

as Dusty’s clogging the bases line.

Adam LaRoche has been traded to Boston

so the Pittsburgh sell-off continues. From the Post-Gazette.

with Jack Wilson according to a blogger for Brad Penny, wtf ?

If that's the deal.

wow.

yeah but that makes no sense, why would the bucs want 31 year old pitcher for 2 pretty good players

lol nevermind it's gonna be for 2 prospects i think

how dumb am i to believe penny LOL

Wow

Al's driving back? He's not flying back on the charter with the rest of the team?

I heard Heliman was saving a seat for him… ;-)

"Sit and spin, blogger-man!"

“Oh, yeah? Nibble on this!”

Clutch16 - July 22, 2009 via mobile reply

Zzzzzzz

Cubs need to wake up today! Z needs a strong outing after last night’s run through the bullpen. I’m thinking 7 Ks, 1 BB, 4 H, 2 R, while going 2-4, HR, RBI would be nice.

If Z can go 7, I assume Lou will have Marshall throw the 8th and Mr Goggles in the 9th

…I just hope we get Z some run support. That has been a pretty rare event for him (and just about every other starter this year).

Go Cubs. Score early and often!!

Z gives his own run support.

it makes me mad when pitchers get game winning hits

it’s just like hitters are being paid to hit and pitchers are not. I don’t care when they win but it bothers me for some reason.

didn't Z get the go ahead hit in his last two starts?

yeah i know

it just makes me mad because the pitchers can hit but the actual hitters can’t

look at the bright side...

at least Harden didn’t “pull something” legging out that bunt last night. Because many here think pitchers are supposed to “dog it” down to first and not risk injuries.

In the end, RJ hit into a DP anyway, so his hustle didn’t help the cause.

Cmon Z

Give us a good performace today. Bats…please wake up. Let’s go home with a 5-2 trip

cubswgnrocks - July 22, 2009 reply

Agreed.

Phillies are suppose to win 2 of 3 at home. Let’s salvage this road trip on a positive note.

cubswynn - July 22, 2009 reply

Why hasn't there been a FanPost about....

This?

oh lord

more EA tragedy … i wonder why no athletes feel wronged when she walks into the locker room after the game with their dongs hanging out while she interviews them.

FanShot is up.

YES!

TWPS

that might be the dumbest comment of the day

You really don’t see a difference? She isn’t sneaking into the locker room. They know she’s coming, they can cover up. She had no idea someone was taking her picture

or so she says.

dude

what?

think about it.

I'm just going to assume you're kidding

and move one

one=on

i see your point

and i was kidding. i’m just saying … it’s an invasion of privacy and it’s a bad thing. BUT the media reposting stills, re-running blurred out portions of the video, etc. is not doing her any favors.

stay classy, SWL. :-)

We need a W today, and by the looks of the starting pitchers

we should get it. I know that’s just on paper, but I feel confident today.

by the look of the starting pitchers we'd should be up 2-0 in the series

Right, but the Phillies have been hitting better.

yes..........

While

While people on the post about the Sun Times garbage this morning are throwing in the towel on this season I haven’t yet.

That thing about Moyer’s major league debut made me feel old. I remember watching that game at my high school graduation party.

puckishcubsfan - July 22, 2009 reply

I was 6 years old when Moyer made his debut

but i remember getting his baseball cards when I’d buy a couple backs of Topps and being really excited.

backs=packs

Cue Van Halen

and Jump!