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Bleed Cubbie Blue

Overflow Thread 3: Cubs vs. Astros, Tuesday 7/28, 7:05 CT

From Monday's game.

0 recs  |  603 comments

Comments

First

WHo is this Meier guy

This is the Cubs victory thread!
Heilman up in 'pen

ugh

stevens walks bourn.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

my nightmare is coming true

HEILMAN UP!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

And may I add my personal thanks to you

For screwing up this thread for everyone on their phone? Your doubts were both heartfelt and prescient, but the delivery could use some work. And a well-placed tap o’ the spacebar.

my bad

you’d think after 12,000 comments I’d have figured out the quirks of SBN commenting, but nope.

Aaron Heilman is warming

Please, Lou – no…

He walks Bourn
the "let's keep heilman in the bullpen" thread
The President of the Aaron Heilman Sucks Fanclub approves of this here message

But I guess it’s the right spot to pitch him—if there ever was one.

Let's get out of this

And pound that idiot Valverde!

Ah crap, Please leave the gas can away from the mound!
Heilman went 1-2-3 yesterday

Anyone else not have a lot of faith in him stringing two non-crap outings together?

I think he'll crap rainbows

And ride off on a unicorn.

The President of the Aaron Heilman Sucks Fanclub

But he may be suited for this here situation.

a major league mound

with a runner on base.

ugh. who knows… maybe lou knows something I don’t though

Heilman went 1-2-3 yesterday

yeah and Corey Patterson has 104 career HRs

"He wants Aaron Heilman."

No! NO! NOOOOOOOO!

why why why why

HEILMAN?

all of BCB holding breath...
Please be the good Heilman tonight.
At least the 'stros bullpen will be exhausted if the Cubs lose.

Valverde two innings.

eric byrnes

is a wrestler now?

So's Shaq

According to the hard-hitting reporting on The Worldwide Leader

wrestling sucks donkey balls
so much, he sucks so fucking much
Great move..Heilman is a joke
jokes are funny
Heilman fails at his job again...

who woulda thought?

Ballgame.
Fo reelz

Cubs can’t come back from 3-runs down. Ever.

impossible

also impossible to come back from deficits of 4-0 and 6-3 in a single game.

REALLY impossible to come back from 10-6 in the same game

Then get the hell out

Didn’t realize games were only 7.5 innings in length.

That said, Heilman really hurts sometimes.

chill out
Nope

Not when confronted with asinine commentary.

who confronted you?

let the guy give up if he wants, why get so upset over it?

Because

It’s stupid and ignorant.

I resemble that remark!
you and I can

continue to believe in this team while he acts like a loser and gives up …. who cares? why get worked up over it? That’s all I’m saying… there are always going to be naysayers and it’s just not worth it IMHO

LOL

you haven’t been watching this game???

No, THAT'S the ballgame

ARam misplays Roid Boy’s grounder.

indeed

impossible to come from 4 runs down

reserving a "Told Ya So"
he'll be my new signature
Like I said, ballgame.
See ya

and don’t let the door hit ya.

4 runs = insurmountable

ignore the fact that we were already down 4-0 in this game

The Aaron Heilman Sucks Fanclub is accepting new membership applications
can i join

pleeeeeeaaaaaseeee

You're a charter member, if I recall correctly
they looking for a vice president?

i’ve been a long time hater (and i’m fine with it)

We need a fundraiser

to come up with moneys to buy him a bus ticket to Boise.

i've proposed a one way trip into space...

… if dogs can travel cross country and find their way back home, he surely could

AAron should be where the first to letters of his name say
awesome .... one pitch

is all it took

my god hes terrible
That didn't take long.
Stevens could have done that :-(

BB just said that 15 out of 31 runners have scored on Heilman’s watch. ugh.

nice try by fuku... couldn't do too much else with that
He could have caught it if he didn't suck so bad

DeRo would have got there

you are kidding right?
Did I say something funny?
Are you drunk?
Not, it's all natural stupidity
No implants here!
granderson may have caught it...

but you have to work with what you have. It was nice to see him go for it and try to preserve the game.

your sarcasm button is stuck

no one got it

I was channeling BLou/Worf

And failed.

Think we can trade Heilman for Howry?
No silly

It’s Heilman and Miles for Joe Mauer.

And now a 3-0 count

Shocking.

Can we get an intervention going for Lou?

Just to tell him this Heilman thing is over and to let it go. Unbelievable. And here goes Bob to actually tell it like it is. . .good for him.

Hello trolls...
Oh STFU
senstive much?
No, I just hate idiots who call people "trolls"...

when they get pissed off when the Cubs lose. It’s patently absurd.

How about those who only post when the Cubs are losing?

What would you refer to those people as?

White Sox fans?
Trolls

and much worse, IMHO.

everyone who gets pissed isn't a troll

but some are.

and don’t give me the “venting” crap either. it takes time to type stuff if you’re over 6 words its no longer venting.

Wow, didn't say it to you

But if you think the shoe fits so well…

WHERE THE F IS GREG!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heilman has inherited 31 runners....

15 of them have scored.

lol, that;s AWESOME!
Why's that awesome!
For comparison...

Marshall has allowed 3 of 30.

Unfair comparison...Marshall is a major league pitcher
Good point.

For comparison… Satan has allowed 10 of 31 runners to score.

And understands the concept of a strikezone.
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr................
Blah

Just a bad night from our pitching staff. Just blah.

wooooooowww

10-6
This is one is probably over

Never know

I’m not getting my hopes up though. It’s just one game.

Are people still thinking that Dome plays too deep?

He looked like he might have been too shallow on the triple…..

I may cry......
Ramirez looked as if he was shedding a tear...
That ball was smoked as well.

F you Heilman. God, what an absolutely pathetic pitcher.

I hope that if I ever suck as badly at my job that Heilman does at his, I’ll continue to get chance after chance after chance. Ugh.

Not sure if I hate Heilman or Howry more
HEILMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would trade Heilman for Howry

They both suck but Howry looks like less of an asshat

Howry has proven this year that last season was a blip

Heilman has proven that last season’s numbers weren’t a blip. Still not all Heilman’s fault tonight because the pitching just hasn’t been great tonight.

Heilman makes the rest of the team worse...

he’s like the Anti-Ramirez

Aram wants that play back
Absolutely terrible management here by Lou

Heilman has been decent starting innings. He is terrible coming into trouble.

15 of 31 inherited runs have scored
he is terrible either way, but even worse w/ inherited runners
Couldn't Lou have put Marmol in tonight?

He also pitched yesterday, IIRC.

of all the people to get out

its carlos lee

Two hands next time, Riot
Thank you!

As a former little league coach, I can say that this business of one-handing everything makes the teaching job MUCH harder!

We were lucky last night

and it was a blast but Lou’s managing batter by batter instead of thinking ahead often comes back to bite you in the ass. Get Grabow, Beimel etc so Lou HAS a real LOOGY then Marshall can start or do long relief

Pitching tonight has been a garbage monster

making a GD all-star out of Jeff Keppinger.

Doesn't help that Blum always seems to get those go ahead or game winning runs against us
Hmm lets see

You could have hit someone for Dempster , put Marshall in and let pitch a few innings so you did not have to put in Stevens after
a 36 pitch outing last night or having screwed that up you could put in Gregg instead of Heilman because if you don’t score by the end of the 9th you aren’t using him anyway. I could go on.

The nice thing about being a Cubs fan is...

…we shouldn’t expect anything more than what we get. I know. I hate saying that.

You're spot on ....

I really don’t understand how Lou keeps mismanaging the pitching staff

he tries to do too much

Lou overmanages like no other can. Like I said last night, he’s better suited to managing in the AL where he doesn’t have to fall into the double-switch Match Game crap he pulls.

I have mentioned this before

but Derek Lowe who pitched for him his rookie season and got traded because he walked too many batters said
Lou never understood or trusted pitchers because he always thought like the hitter he had been.

Excellent point DS
One night

I want to come on here and not question Lou. I just find this to be impossible game in and game out.

This is one of those nights where I have to blame the pitchers

It’s not Lou’s fault that they stunk up the joint tonight.

But why not let Stevens pitch there

Heilman is bad when he comes in with runners on, let the kid pitch out of the jam, see what he is made of

Put Gregg in

He is RESTED. Not my favorite situation for him but a better option.

be a hero fonzie
hit another

grand slam

i'm back to firing Heilman into space...

… i allowed him back into the atmosphere after yesterday’s outing. but 2 outs, gives up a solid double then goes 3-0 (finally 3-1) before that big hop over Aramis. i swear he is allergic to strikes

All of Hendry's offseason moves have been failures.

Well, maybe Gregg has been steady.

Gregg's been extremely good...

shakey to start, but that’s the shock f playing in chicago compared to 3,500 fans in miami

In all fairness to Lou...

…when you have a pitcher just coming off the DL, and he’s on an 85-pitch count, you don’t really expect to win. Circumstances made it much more likely the Cubs might take it (and they still might). But in the end, you knew you’d have to have a lot of offense to pull out the W in a game like this.

if you dont expect to win then

Dempster should be pitching a rehab game in AAA

Listen to this good man
He

Should have went on a rehab start. But, I imagine that since Lilly was hitting the DL, they did not feel comfortable bringing anyone else up to take a start while Dempster got his in in triple A.

It's a 162-game season, folks.

Sure, you WANT to win them all, and the fans do, too. But against Oswalt? And with a pitcher starting JUST off the DL? A realistic person should see that and say, “My team has a less than 50% chance to win this game. If we win, great. If not, we get them next time.”

Oswalt barely pitched...

So that was a weird thing to point out.

True true

That’s why I think football is more popular than baseball. 1) it’s more predictable, and 2) a fan can appreciate a sport where anger, fury, and the need to stomp out the opposition’s guts can easily be translated into the style of play.

Oswalt was out in the 2nd inning so

that argument doesn’t hold up

Yes, it does.

When you look at a baseball game, before it starts, you never say, “Gee, their ace is on the mound. But it’s OK, because he will leave in the second anyway with an injury, and that means we should win the game!”

If you do, you’re watching a different game than most of us have all our lives.

A poor performance is always possible, but not too likely with Oswalt. And you knew even if Dempster was lights-out, he’d likely be out of the game by the sixth! Again, a rational person would see that and say “our chances to win aren’t stellar today,” unless you are positive your team can out-slug the other.

Heh

I figured the game against Oswalt would be tough… but I had no idea it would be anything like this one. Whoa, crazy game so far.

Memo to Jim Hendry:

More bullpen help.

Please.

That's too easy

Just DFA Heilman

If it means anything, we've got another final score in the division:

Washington 8, Milwaukee 3.

About the only good news right now.

watch out

for those gNats! They could come up out of nowhere!

Sori has two walks?

WTF? No Guesshacking today?

Too many mistakes tonight

Dempster’s inexplicable mistake on the error

Guzman letting up after getting Lee

Stevens throwing Bourn a curve on 3-2

Everything related to Heilman

Re: Heilman

Where was Marmol tonight?

We can win this game!

Come on Cubbies!

What the he'll are you doing???

Cheering? WTF!

/sarcasm

Baker

hit the shit out of that thing

baker doesnt do much for me

i dont think he is the answer. We still need a second baseman.

How many more do you want?
ill take one decent one

and ill keep blanco.

Lol, like he asked your opinion on his post

Lol

i was calling for him to PH for dempster...

…yelling so loud for it at the tv i probably scared the neighbors. they need 2-way TVs, so yelling at it could be heard by Lou

How much more fun would baseball be

if a runner could punch a pitcher coming to tag him.

Basewars, anyone?

you mean

like A-Rod? Oh wait that was a girl slap.

We really let this one get away...

…if we end up losing.

Not really

The Cubs weren’t in this one from the start, although they did tie it eventually. This hardly is one that got away.

+1

See my ridiculed comments above.

Well in the sense that we had a tough game against Oswalt...

…and were lucky to see him go down with an injury.

Would have been a good opportunity, perhaps

But it isn’t as if the Cubs were leading this game and squandered it late. That’s letting a game get away. Not a game in which you’ve never led.

Looks like you've got your hands full below...

…but there is no reason the Cubs shouldn’t have won this game. The squandered some good opportunities.

I'm not sure about how good the opps were

They did have, what, six runs on four hits for a while? I think they took advantage of just about every opportunity.

I guess I look at it the same way.

Despite those facts you just named and that their ace was hurt, we still couldn’t win. Eh whatever.

dude, you've said some stupid stuff before, but this takes the cake.

We really weren’t in this? It was 6-6 at one point. It’s hard to be more “in it” then tied

Well, I'd say

having a 4-0 lead and losing a game is “letting one get away,” wouldn’t you? Or do you use your brain at all?

do you? It was tied at sixes, how the hell were we "never in it"

I’m not even sure how them having a 4-0 lead, and us coming back makes you think you have a point

Did the Cubs ever lead in this game, genius?

No. Therefore, they didn’t let it “get away.” Although you apparently have let whatever intelligence you might have had get away long ago.

I'm not the one who said they let it get away.

I’m also not the one who claims we were never in it.

Neither did I

I said “The Cubs weren’t in it from the start.” Reading comprehension is fundamental.

I thought Koyie had that one!
I didn't

With all the warning track outs we’ve had in this series, I’m surprised when we actually get one out.

Man, I thought that was gone.
gah

geoff blum can hit a homer but not my man k hill

evil world eh

How many warning track balls have we hit thee last 2 games?
It's hard to hate Carlos Lee.

He loves the bleacher bums.

When
When what?
Not my night tonight.

First a reply fail, then a typing fail.

Check my second comment.

When's his contract up?

We could sign him if someone in our OF leaves.

2012

Would you really want him at that time?

35-36 years old....

Kinda depends on his power. If his numbers start dropping off, then no.

I wouldn't jump on that grenade,

unless you got a way better deal for him than the $18.5 mil he is getting right now.

Carlos Lee is signed through 2012
Yeah

he seems to have a good time out there.

and he LOVES to hit at Wrigley.

I seem to see a lot of games against the Astros.

And you’re right on both accounts.

Holy crap Aaron Heilman sucks

rushing home to catch the end of a close ballgame. Aaron makes sure it’s not close

And Lou Pineilla, still the biggest moron on the club. Why the hell do you continue to put that piece of crap in when it;’s a close ball game?

When's his contract up?

We could sign him when someone in our OF leaves.

Wow, reply fail.

Meant to reply to cubswynn.

Come on hoff
I appreciate the power of positive thinking!
How did that fat POS Lee

get to that ball? You figure anything to the wall is over his head.

I actually dont mind

Carlos Lee, hes actually good. What bothers me is when mouthbreathers like Blum, Keppinger and Pence beat us.

3 pitch strikeout
Hoff is pathetic nowadays.
kpauir

k’s

There's an image macro there somewhere

But I’m too lazy to make it.

Hoff vs. LH Pitching

FAIL! He is the king of the guess hackers

Everyone was on the Hoffpauir bandwagon early in the season

No wonder so many people hate Cubs fans.

No, not everyone.
I saw enough of the Hoffpauir bandwagon when Lee was off to a slow start
And if you care to review, I argued Lee would heat up

I’ve actually argued everyone would heat up and was flamed for it

Not everyone

Just that those who were beating the drum were really beating it…

i was not

never. not a moment. though he was trash from the start. check my posts

the same ones that liked

Daryl Ward maybe

Don't count me

in that group.

Isn't it funny how so many peple are claiming to have never liked Hoffpauir?

I’m not ashamed to admit it.

my position with him hasnt changed

I didnt have much good to say about him earlier in the season and I dont have much bad to say about him right now. He’s having a better year than D Ward is…….

I was never in

his camp and I hated when that group wanted Hoff to start over Derrek.

Me neither

Never a Hoff fan…

Don't count you in the group...

That was a big fan of the guy who was the best hitter on our team in mid May? Got it.

Not surprised.

I wished him well

but never saw him sustaining that sucess long term.

Sorry if that seems “typical” or whatever.

Jesus get over yourself.
Umm, okay?

I don’t see how that post makes any sense whatsoever in response to what I said.

I’m just saying that I think it’s incredibly laughable for you to (proudly) proclaim that you were never a fan of his… despite the fact that he was OUR BEST HITTER early on in the season.

I don't have to be

a fan of every player on this team. When he helped the team that was great. I was never in favor of him playing over Derrek.

You come across as an ass and know it all and put people down all the time. That’s why I said what I did.

Oh, you mean...

When he had an OPS over 900 in mid May? Umm, yeah, of course we were on the bandwagon. Especially since DLee was so terrible at that same time.

I'd have to agree.
I like Hoff

But he has a big hole in his swing and the league knows it and has adjusted.

Exactly! And as I said in my post below...

He either needs to adjust accordingly, or his career is done.

The Cubs might let him go if he doesn't adjust

Watch Florida pick him up and he turns into an All-Star.

C'mon Dodgers!

Billingsley’s been awesome so far…unfortunately ditto Wainwright.

Loney on 2nd, 1 out for Dodgers...
Shark in the water!
For some reason I still have a good feeling about this game

This could be an 11-10 game

Which way?
That is a personal question but

TMI, pal

TMI

That leap is so lame
Since the begining of June...

Hoff’s line is as follows: .184/.225/.355/.580

Absolutely abysmal. The league has figured him out. He can either A) make the adjustments, or B) go back to Iowa. Or I guess C) continue to fail at his job on a daily basis.

Time to step up, Micah.

Long Swings = Short Career
I'm no Fuld-lover

But for now I’d rather see him up here while Hoff works on his swing down in AAA. Maybe when rosters expand he can provide some of that pop for us again.

Since you asked

Fuld was 2-5 tonight with a triple. It might be nice to have someone on the bench with speed & defense but of course power
even very infrequent power is preferred by Lou etc.

Defense = Johnson.

Speed = not really that important in terms of a bench player.

I’m with you on wanting Fuld up over Hoff right now, but not for the reasons you mentioned.

Pick your reason

Just bring him up. I doubt the spark can be recaptured but damn it was good when he was up. Speed off the bench does help but even better speed leading off.

Heilman

Just stuck a dagger in our heart tonight. Dempster, other than getting back into some game shape for his next start, was worthless.

We’re not going to win all of them, but it is disappointing to come back from 4-0 and 6-3 deficits and watch one pitcher really hose us.

Or, you can see it as Houston just hit the ball well?
Underpants double
When Oswalt left

before getting through the 2nd inning I figured it was our game, Didn’t think Dempster would suck as bad as he did, probably should have made a start in AAA first.

As I said

above I think if Lilly was not placed on the DL, he would have. I guess they figured that there was nobody better at Triple A that would give them a better chance to win this game.

Or, they didn't have anyone who they wanted to burn an option on...
Dempster is the very definition of mediocre.

We can’t expect anything more than 6 or 7 IP, and 4 or 5 runs. Last year was an his career year.

how about

sticking up for a fellow canuck?

Oh and where in Canada are you?

Send. Poutine. Now.
omg hahahaha

I thought you said “Sand. Pounding. Now.”

Well, yeah, kinda

but at the Cubs, not at this fine Canadians, who now ask that I have a visa to enter their country… wait… Pounding. Sand.

are you

from Mexico? Sorry about that. Not to get into politics, but that was a stupid move on our part :(

West Coast.

Victoria. Home of Rich Harden.

Seeing Demp for what he is...
props

I’m from Montreal originally, now living in Calgary.

Dodgers have runners at the corners.

Not sure how many are out, though.

So I went over 5000 comments tonight.

Hooray for me. Do I get a watch or something?

1000 bcb points

hope you’re closer to getting that new snuggie you’ve always wanted!

You get 20 BCB points

Redeemable in the BCB Store

Handshake and a smile
More bullpen fail

11-6

Okay ... now the game is really over.
Careful.

You’ll get called a troll. ;)

one more arm in the bullpen would be nice

he is please Jim get er done.

This is mostly a staff-wide failure tonight

Granted, Heilman hurts you more than helps you with inherited runners, but the pitching has been awful overall tonight.

agree, Im thinking more about tiring out the few

dependable arms we have down there.

had to feed my son, looked at the current score and thought I'd call it a night.

better luck next night.

Back to AAA for the shark

He’s not ready. Send him down and train him to be a starter or reliever. We’re not doing him any good the way he’s being used.

I would take him

over Heilmann

that's not a choice I wanna be faced with
well right now we have both
Consider the situation.

He pitched well yesterday, 2 innings.

Maybe he’s tired?

I don't care if this game is over or not..

This ump is squeezing the Shark.

as in squeezing the strike zone.

Proofread fail there … big-time.

Don't squeeze teh Sharkmin?
Like I said, I've had a rough go of it tonight.

Just about every kind of fail you can think of here.

Reply fail, typing fail, proofread fail.

My advice to you is to start drinking heavily
Sorry, I'm not a heavy drinker.

I only drink in moderation.

Thus the "start"
I'm afraid I'm going to have to turn down the advice.
Pitchers with ERA's close to 6.00

Do not get the benefit of a wide strike zone.

Crap

Shark is terrible.

And the Shark is getting knocked all over the yard
not a remote surprise
Another draft failure
needs a 3rd pitch
gotta have 2 before you get 3
Too soon to conclude that

although it’s not looking great so far. We seriously need to send him to AAA and decide whether to have him start or relieve, and stick to it.

For the $$$ he is, but still has some time to develop something.
Seriously!?

He’s been out of college 2 years? Do you understand how baseball players develop?

Evidently not.
I have to agree

I took a look at the list of players who have made the majors in his draft class, its quite a short list.

Hopefully he will
He has offered at any time in the five-year period to give the [signing bonus] money back. He wanted to make everything clear that there wasn’t any turning back," Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said.
Too early to tell

This is only his third year of pro ball. I’m not ready to call him a failure. But the Cubs aren’t doing him any favos with the way he’s been used. Is he a starter or reliever? They can’t decide.

Dodgers fail to score.

0-0 bottom 6.

Man the Dodgers suck with men in scoring position tonight
Really don't understand why Shark got called up

he’s really not ready for the big leagues yet…

why commit all that money to him and then not give him the time he needs to actually be what you thought he was?

Tell people to stay off the DL

Then we can develop him.

he shouldn't have even been on the call up list last year

he should still be in AA learning.

The numbers he put up got him promoted pretty quickly

When you consider what he gave us down the stretch last year, I can’t say it was a bad call. They really needed to get more time out of him in Iowa this year. That’s for certain. Hindsight’s always 20/20.

it's not always hindsight.

There were plenty of us who didn’t want Shark called up when he was, and before he threw a pitch

there were others that could have been called up, both times he's got the call
no one would give a damn

about his and medicore stuff without Notre Dame

the answer is who resides in the front office

This off-season, and season has been one bad roster decision after another.

Also, Hendry committed all that money, and the NTC, so he has to try and prove it was a good decision to do it,

On to the bottom of the 9th

We need a 5-run homer from Sori!

I'll take a six-run home run.

Win the game in nine.

Those are awesome

I used to hit them all the time when I played.

Did you play at a high level?
I was BLou's teammate dude
Geo Soto did!
alright cubbies 5+ runs this inning
5?

We are going to win this! I want 7!

Len brings up a good point.

Not just for the long-term, but the short-term as well . . . this game almost promises the Cubs a REALLY good shot at wins the next two days. Who will Cooper have out of the pen, the bat boys?

He'll call his own number
Good point

This was still an ugly loss. But if the Cards lose tonight or the Cards drop some games after tonight, who cares if we lost this one game?

I care. Every game counts

It’s not the end of the world, but this was a winnable game, until our pitching imploded over and over again

Every game is a winnable game, until your pitchers implode or your hitters just suck.

Every game is winnable before it starts

Maybe it’s the headache, but I’m on a rare optimistic night. Stop crapping on it.

well blou will be here any minute
Yep

That score is his cue

...

Looks like he's going to get eaten by a bear
he sees Vick coming after him
woo valverdes in

how bout some more crappy pitching

Boy, that was tagged.

And people will still say Dome sucked for lining out hard.

Sounds like someone has been overserved

wow. loud drunks. way to disprove the image of wrigley, guys.

Drunks are the worst thing about any sporting event
Loud, obnoxious drunks you mean
They are all worthless IMO
I am far from worthless

I took a shot of goldschlager last night

Did you feel like a sorority girl afterward?
More like a Woo-Girl
You can never disprove it

Too many people hate the Cubs for no good reason for that to change.

Oh, please.

You ever been to a stadium other than Wrigley? There are drunk people at every sporting event in the entire country.

I hear em at the Metrodome

but that guy is really going off

Of course

But it’s only wrong if Cubs fans do it.

sure there are

but every sporting venue isn’t label a giant beer garden where no one cares about the game, are they?

all due respect, but it's 11-6 in the ninth inning

it’s been a long game, and not a good one for the Cubs. I’d be drinking too. It’s not near the offense you want to make it

Not St. Louis

They are the most moral, knowlegable, beautiful, nice, hungry, strong, funny, crazy fans in baseball.

You forgot "best"

Unlike them.

Nah, those righteous St. Louis fans are God's gift to baseball

Now excuse me while I go vomit.

and dont boo people

not even manny or theodore roosevelt

Well there's something
Valverde?

Just plain dumb. Why use your closer with a five run lead? He pitched two innings last night and again tonight. Might not be able to use him tomorrow.

Look at Lou. Who didn’t pitch tonight? Marmol and Gregg. Yes, we’re losing, but look longer term. They’re ready for tomorrow. The Astros bullpen is shot.

Who else does Cooper have left?
their pen is shot

thats why they need to go to valverde.

Meh, you got him up anyways.

And you need a lefty for tomorrow . . . not terrible by Cooper, but not desirable either.

Good point.

And here I was, hoping Marmol could have come in instead of Heilman.

2B right here. . . I feel it
I've got an eery feeling about this inning...
Probably just gas
Another walk
I wonder if this idiot...

will act like a, well, idiot, if he gets the 5 run save.

Always acts like an idiot

Someone needs to charge the mound on Valverde.

I SAY WE BEAN HIM TOMORROW IF HE DOES

HES DISREPECTING THE GAME

I just hope we grind this guy for 35+ pitches.

6 runs would be even better

Late game rally!
Z on deck, awesome
Runners on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out for the Cards
Intentional pass for Holliday...

Ludwick up…

Z in the on-deck circle?
Oh God. Zambrano on deck.

Now that’s some fine bench management, Lou.

who else is there?

(no really, asking honestly)

That's the point.
Would you guys give Lou a rest

Sometimes it doesn’t matter what he does, people are just douchebags

and he's just not a very good manager
He's not?

He’s managed us to 2 division titles…managed us back into first this year,

But you know, your SO right, what was I thinking?!

Go take a midol

or the talent got us the division titles

and he managed us to an 0-6 record in the playoffs.

Sorry, I know it gets your panties in a bunch, but I don’t believe he’s a very good manager. I think the team has won quite a few games in spite of his decisions, thanks to an arseload of talent

Well, he put the teams together

Him and hendry…that’s right, I said it. I give hendry CREDIT, also.

No, it doesn’t get my panties in a bunch. It does make me question your knowledge though

Yup - that was definitely the time for a Midol.

Mention post-season records in the post-season, m’kay?

Not a very good manager

While I don’t think Lou belongs in Cooperstown, I take offense to that statement. You don’t accumulate the amount of managerial wins that Lou Piniella has by being “not a very good manager.” He managed a major World Series upset, managed the Mariners to a 116-win season and let’s not forget the 2008 Cubs. Sure he didn’t have postseason success with the 2001 Mariners or 2008 Cubs, but to say he’s not a very good manager sells him short. He is very good. He’s just not great.

+alot thank you!!
He WAS a good manager

largely in a different time when his hard ass style and use em up style of dealing with pitchers worked. He has NOT been a good manager for the Cubs. As always I remind I came to this conclusion in April of LAST year after a game in Philly that opened my eyes. I say this because I did give him the benefit of the doubt the first season and no winning 97 games last year did NOT change my view that he was a bad manager. My mantra since the game in Philly is that the Cubs can win DESPITE Lou not because of him but a game like tonight ( and last night} bring out the worst of his manage for the moment and damn the next inning style.

How Ve
Valverde

and his off-balance delivery suck

This guy at the plate is pretty good.

Let’s see him on base, huh?

Aram missed a juicy one
Losses make me pissy
Well, this will be fun.

3-Run tater would make a loss very palatable, at least :-)

No

A loss is a loss. Nothing makes this one palatable. Not when you come back from 4 and three run deficits and piss it all away.

Before this game started, did you think the Cubs had a better than 50% chance to win?

Considering the starters, situation, etc? I don’t think a rational baseball fan would.

Some you win, some you lose. It is one game out of 162, and it’s not like they lost by one run. Go get them for the next two . . . something made EXTREMELY likely by Oswalt’s departure tonight, IMO.

WLS Ch.7 just said "Cubs lose."

Is it over?

No, they screwed up.
Not yet...one more out
no
Let's not tell Al about it then
My lips are sealed.
its not looking bright and shiny
Dewey beats Truman
Swinging for the effing fences.

Ugh.

it's Carlos Zambrano

you expect something different?

Len with a truly nonsensical comment

“A walk is as good as a home run here”

No, it’s not

Yes, it is.

Zambrano’s run mattered as much as the next fly I squash.

and yet, a walk scores no runs, while a homer scores three

so they aren’t in fact the same

a baserunner matters more

even a HR there cuts it 11-9 it means nothing really.

sorry, not seeing it.

How exactly does a baserunner (who could be stranded) matter MORE than a three run homer?

That’s some very interesting math

When you HAVE to score atleast 5 runs.

Until that homerun scores the fifth run, another baserunner is just as good.

anybody else feel a breeze on that cut?
mr grand slam is behind you z

dont do it

god damn it z
Funny you say that...

Considering your sn

hes cool with it
Not really, lol
well...

when hes sober hes cool with it

Get 'em tomorrow.
Valverde is officially an enemy.
series tied
So Valverde did the can't see me move

They didn’t plunk Soriano, but they did do that.

How irrelevant of him
That's because the only people who cared visit this blog
Not that I cared

He was showing up Soriano, who he didn’t even strike out. That’s kinda funny.

Valverde getting all animated...

after striking out a pitcher, up by 5 runs, to end the game, is just priceless.

he really is one guy, who despite being very good

I never want to see in a Cubs uniform. He’s just a complete douchebag

He'd be our jerk then
nope

DO NOT WANT

Not even if you could dump Heilman to get him?

I’d jump on that in a heartbeat.

I'll dump Heilman for nothing

I effing hate the guy. Truly hate. I don’t want him on my team.

Yikes

Did Heilman steal your wife? He’s just a pitcher.

The truly hate was aimed at Valverde

I’d dump Heilman for nothing, because he’s a BAD pitcher.

I don't hate Valverde

I think he’s a jerk, but the guy never did anything to me personally.

Woah

I don’t particularly LIKE the guy as a pitcher… but thats really extreme and scary.

Save your hate for things that actually matter.

thanks for weighing in.

but next time, save your sanctimony for someone else

Oh please

What did Valverde do to you? Steal your wife? Kill your kid? Steal your Twinkie? Please man. Let it go.

anyone steals my Twinkie and it's going down
how about you let it go

why the hell do you care one way or the other?

You take it way too seriously
again, why do you care?
I don't

Too much negativity gets old.

and yet you keep commenting about it
well

alrighty then.

yeah, i think i'd have to boycot or something if the cubs got that guy.

he’s such a jackass.

There is a difference though.

Soriano did it in celebration. Valverde did it to show up the other team.

Of course he did

Up by five runs and shows up the other team after getting three outs in the no save situation. Considering he didn’t even face Soriano in that final AB, the move was pretty pathetic. If you’re gonna show up the other guy, at least do it right.

Exactly

Sori won the game, and Valverde ended a game already decided.

Everyone knows Valverde is a jerk

He’s in a protected position like a closer, so he can do stuff like that without having to fear being plunked.

I'm not saying I want someone to get hurt

But I also know the kind of player I was (hot tempered, extremely competitive) and I’m fairly certain if I were facing Valverde, I would be very tempted to have the bat “accidently” slip out of my hands, and fly towards the mound

Valverde hasn't - and will never - win anything

It’s all about himself first. The Hawk Harrelson of the bullpen.

You sure about that?

Didn’t look like it to me. I hate that prick, so I’m not going to rewind to confirm though.

On no, he definitely did.
Eh - get some sleep

Got a day game tomorrow.

woohoo baseball in the sunshine!

:-)

not our night

But with Oswald out, I think it was a worse night for Houston

yeah

pretty painful win for the ’stros. Ace out with injury and burned the ’pen for the second straight day.

Harden is a better choice in that situation then Z
not with 2 outs

if you were going for a bunt, sure… otherwise, I don’t agree.

Dodgers apprently deciding to suck now in St Louis
valverde does the cena!

class act. just like soriano.

As stated above.

There was a difference. Soriano was celebrating, he does it all the time. I’ve seen him do it on singles.

Valverde just did it to show up Soriano.

doesn't make it ok, the fact that he does it all the time

i dislike valverde perhaps more than any other player but i found that amusing.

yeah people shouldnt be allowed to have fun

ruins the business part of MLB

you can't have fun by winning?

one needs to act a fool to have fun? interesting……..

Big different doing it when you were up five runs

Soriano hit a walk off grand slam last night. Big difference.

i don't see the difference

acting like a fool is acting like a fool whether it’s the jack-ass valverde or alfonso soriano.

Intent is the difference.
how do you know the intent?
how do you know if soriano does it to have fun or to show up the other team?

you dont

exactly

my whole point is either way it’s acting like a fool. and that’s foolish.

i dont consider it acting like a fool
Its the way he celebrates.

Look at Braun/fielder with their swinging at each other and ducking. Or the untucking of shirts.

They’re not doing it to make the other team mad, and neither is Soriano. They’re simply celebrating with teemates.

Meant for John T. Unger.
the fact

that soriano did it as he rounded third toward his teammates and it sounds like valverde did it facing the batter’s box…

seems a little different to me

he actually wasn't facing the batters box

and it wasn’t that blatant either – i’ve found some of his foolish celebrations more obnoxious.

Okay stop it.

If you’re trying to say that Valverde wasn’t showing up the cubs, that’s just dumb.

Thanks.

This is silly to argue about, but you hit the nail on the head.

Valverde's a jerk

Need I say more?

Act a fool...

…but don’t show up the other team.

What about sportsmanship?
Difference is Soriano did it to celebrate himself.

Valverde did it to show up the other team. Major difference. I’m not offended, just saying.

4-0 Cardinals...
'Stros

I hate them more than the Cards and Crew combined. Something about them being from a cesspool in Texas I think.

I can get behind that statement
nah. i don't even care about the stros.

valverde is a complete dipshit, one of my least favorite players in the league.

ugly pitching performance.

dempster looked absolutely lousy just throwing meatballs and heilman should not be on the roster (i’d just do a crap for crap trade with some team to simply get a new face in the pen and remove heilman). dodgers are outplaying the cardinals but have not been able to cash in. cards took the win and are likely gonna win. need to get a win tomorrow. lousy night.

Lemme just say this again real fast

Because I think it’s a good point.

People like football better than baseball because

1) Football is more predictable. The team that is favored usually wins and there’s not as many upsets.

2) A fan can relate better to the style of play. “Man if that was me, I’d be in there ready to smash ’em and kill ’em and stomp out their guts and take no prisoners!” Baseball isn’t like that, which is probably why people say the game is boring and too long, etc..

Eh

I love football whereas I merely like baseball… but not for those reasons.

Football is pretty similar from game to game, ie penaly calls are going to be the same day to day. Baseball is so dependent on everything else, the ump the pitcher the catcher’s framing of a pitch the dimensions of the park etc.

Fair enough

My assertion was based on the fact that people are like me in that they hate surprises and unpredictability. Particularly when the wagering of currency is involved.

i think ou get upsets in football a lot too

but i don’t wager…

who saw atlanta being so good last year?

That would be a good prolonged study

to compare the number of upsets in the NFL with MLB. I was just guessing that there’s more upsets in baseball because it’s so damn difficult to successfully bet on!

Yep

Football is also more exciting, while Baseball is a slow and drawn out subjective game.

yep

i love in football that a 10 yd gain is a 10 yd gain regardless of which league you’re in.

In baseball… everything is weird depending on even which conference you’re watching.

So, I gotta ask

are you in favor of having the DH in both leagues?

Neither

the DH is dumb, imho.

i think a pitcher should have to contribute to the whole game. why not have a different guy hit for a catcher who has so much else to do on defense?

Did you know that Charlie Finley actually considered that?

I recall reading where he wanted baseball to have different guys on offense and defense, like the NFL. THAT would certainly have made things different!

two different lineups would make more

sense than the special pitcher thing, i think.

I hate

how an AL starting pitcher has zero accountability when it comes to “beaming” hitters.

I love baseball

I just like football.

If I've said it once...

Tactics vs. Strategy

Football is tactics – a battle in stop-motion.
Baseball is strategy – a long campaign filled with (seemingly) small moves that culminate in victory or defeat.

Three hours spent watching a football game is more fulfilling or deflating, because the campaign is so short and decisive. Three hours spent watching baseball rolls up the same emotions, but on a much, much larger stage. When tactics fail in football, it’s the end of a season. When tactics fail in baseball, we’ll get ’em tomorrow.

That being said, I prefer 6 months in the sun to 4 months of shivering. Tonight’s game may not have gone the way I wanted, but at least I don’t have to stew on it for a whole week.

See you tomorrow, when it’s 0-0 again.

Another reason...

… compared to baseball, you don’t have to think about watching football. Does anyone ever worry about whether the defense lines up in a Nickel or a 3-4 on 2nd and 7? Not often.

People fret about all kinds of moves in a baseball game. So many more “what-ifs” and variables. . . that’s why I love it.

Glad you guys are responding, thanks

It’s certainly interesting to realize that I’m the exception and not the rule!

That makes no sense.

people who watch football usually worry about what defense their team is lining up in.

Not the casual fan...

… and for every casual fan baseball has, football has three. THAT’S why the NFL thrives, I think. It’s all about the people who just watch the games and don’t really study the games / teams.

who are you watching games with?

everyone i watch games with is a football nerd completely fascinated by the chess match…

Baseball is a more obvious chess match...

So by that logic, all your friends are total baseball nerds, too.

Your friends are obviously all pretty die-hard fans, then, who would rather watch a game than Law And Order. It usually isn’t that way.

No

actually I’m the closest thing to a “die hard” baseball fan… and I’m not really.

But football is way more fun than baseball. A badly officated baseball game drags for hours… football?

The NFL actually has a time limit

College football is closest because that can drag on and on since they eliminated ties.

college football has time limits too
Talking about all the OTs

Though I forget just how many they can get, which means it can drag on. A team should eventually win with all the OTs they get in college football. The NFL only has one OT and that’s it. I never said college football didn’t have a time limit. It’s just simply a matter of how the game is designed.

they drag

but the OTs in college are interesting at least.

how long can you go in baseball with out scoring? after a couple OTs you have to go for 2…

Yeah

It gets interesting when neither team can score or neither team can get the two. Theoretically, these things can drag on.

true
Don't you just love it when I pull out technicalities?
sure love

or… uh… something like that.

Baseball is a thinking man's game.

Football involves thought, but it also involves grown men concussing one another repeatedly. It’s Gladiator worship half the time . .. not that it’s wrong. It’s just the way it is.

right on

and I daresay more folks can relate to the gladiator aspect because that’s what they want out of sports. Go out there and annihilate the opponent with brute force!

Brute force is part of the appeal

but don’t say its all of it.

didn't mean to be that general

Really what spurred this topic was me watching the Cub game tonight thinking, “Wow, if I was on the mound or at bat I’d fight those Astros tooth and nail and do all I could from letting them humiliate me at home”. Now I know you can’t have that approach in baseball and be a good player – however, in football a player can take that rage and fury and translate it into a hard hit or a savage tackle.

So I thought, “Do football players do a better job of manifesting that ‘go to war’ passion that fans have, and if so then is that why the NFL is more popular?”

I think its less that

and more the fact in baseball season I can think of lots of crap to do instead of watch a game… in the dead of winter? football on the couch seems awesome.

The longer this thread goes

the more I realize that my thinking process is just weird! LOL

No, I think you make valid points.

Different people want different things out of their fandom . . . you value the constancy of good teams and bad teams for daily results.

I would too if I was a betting man!

Good Lord

Football does involve thought. Did you ever play football or at least on a console?

I think you're just not much of a football fan

and so YOU don’t put as much thought into what’s happening on the field, and decided that’s how most people are

No, I would put thought into a freakin' cricket match.

I am a serious fan of ALL sports, to obviously varying degrees. But if you don’t believe MOST of the people who might watch sports in this country aren’t just casual fans, I contend you are wrong.

Why else would Notre Dame football still have enough of a fanbase to get a 2 minute highlight on ESPN in the fall? To that end, why else would ESPN in its current format even exist?

Most sports-watching people do it casually, and simply want to be entertained. End of story.

disagree. i find a football game completely boring.
thats fine

all that was just my opinion as someone who likes football more. :-)

I think you're misinformed

every football fan I know is much more knowledgeable about their sport than the baseball fans I know

If you want further proof...

When you watch the news, at LEAST 20% of people turn the channel before sports comes on, and it’s usually more. If most people were real sports fans, would the number be that high?

huh?

i don’t get my sports from the news, thats why i have internet.

hell i don’t even get my news from the news.

How is that proof?

So if 20% of people turn the channel when SPORTS comes on, how does that prove people are more into baseball?

It proves there are more casual sports "fans" than people who actually study the games.

I never really contended people are more into baseball. They aren’t, and that’s obvious.

I am contending the NFL’s lead in popularity stems mostly from the casual fan. If those 20% didn’t tune out, I’d say the number of in-depth sports fans equals the casual “fan.” But that isn’t the case by a longshot.

Why do people (and mass media blowhards) say they don’t want to watch a Rays-Phillies World Series, regardless of talent. . . but if the Yankees and Cubs ever met up, it would be ratings gold? It’s all dependent on the name recognition of the CASUAL FAN.

Most people in this country are totally casual sports fans. They can’t name more than 30 players in any league, I promise you.

But that wasn't what you claimed

you claimed that baseball fans are more into the nuances of the game than football fans are.

You’re 20% stat isn’t close to proof of that

All I know is, I HATE it when an MLB team that I like and is favored ends up losing

like tonight. Doesn’t seem to be that way so much in football.

I like good teams, they’re favored to win, and they usually do. I like sucky teams, they’re picked to lose, they usually do. Knowing that kind of thing before you sit down and watch helps keep me on an even keel.

Now to me, that's a perfectly legitimate reason to like football more than baseball.

Dynasties can be very fun . . . when they happen. Although the days of dynasties in any sport are short-lived with salary caps and the like…

Short schedule

Teams in football can get hot early. Division I FBS in the NCAA seems to have figured this out by not having a playoff system. I could say it’s a legitimate reason to like college football more than MLB, but the NFL?

Also...

A short schedule makes every game an EVENT. Baseball games happen every day, so people don’t take them as seriously, in general. It bleeds over into the sport, too.

That’s a big reason why football is hugely popular. . . you tailgate, spend the whole day at the stadium . . . and you only get 8 chances a year to do it at home (usually).

excellent point!

I agree with this the most.

LA Dodgers are overrated

they’ve played about .500 for the last 2 months, and I don’t think they’re anything to worry about.

every team we have a chance to meet in the playoffs are someone to worry about

this team is far from perfect.

No team is perfect

You’d need to go 162-0 and then 11-0 in postseason to be a perfect team.

yes

I’m not sure what your point is, but I can’t say you’re wrong

Saying a team is far from perfect sums up every team in MLB

The most regular season wins a team ever had was 116. The 1906 Cubs and 2001 Mariners are the only teams that accomplished this. At least when the Cubs did it, they only played 154 games.

Again, I don't understand what your point is

I was responding to a guy saying that he didn’t think the Dodgers were anything. My point was that the Cubs haven’t proved to be any better than them.

Your nonsensical speeches about what a perfect team is, aren’t relevant

Does anyone make sense to you?
people who post rational thoughts do
And my point was irrational?

I was simply pointing out a flaw in what you said. Let it go.

there was no flaw

In fact, you were basically cementing what I said. For no reason.

I said the Cubs are far from perfect, you then demonstrated that no teams are perfect.

saying you effing hate a person you've never

met is rational?

I don't have much of a problem understanding my own thoughts

which was the question

That was not the question
of course it's not rational

is HATRED of people you DO know rational? Her question also wasn’t relevant to your question, or my answer

if youre charlie manson

yes

And how many of those teams won a World Series?

Frickin’ Southsiders…

Those of you still here.

Cards score 6 in the 6th. 6-0 cards.

Looks like were in 2nd for tomorrow.

bad time for the dodgers to cool off
Are they cooling off from being hot.

Or coming back down to Earth?

Then again they have faced two really good pitchers from the Cards.

i dont know

but its a bad time for them to lose!

And when a team cools off..

An 8 game lead can evaporate.

/just sayin’

well, the cardinals are also really, really good.

especially when one of their top 3 starters goes (each with an ERA under 3!)

Randy Johnson out at least 3 weeks

with rotator cuff injury.

see y'all later

baseball in the sunshine to look forward to!

Wear some shorts, don some shades, crack a cool beverage

And cheer the Cubs on to victory. What more can you ask for?

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