From the official press release:
The Chicago Cubs today acquired left-handed pitchers John Grabow and Tom Gorzelanny from the Pittsburgh Pirates for right-handed pitchers Kevin Hart and Jose Ascanio and Single-A Daytona infielder Josh Harrison.
Grabow will be added to the Cubs 25-man roster prior to tomorrow’s game at Florida. Gorzelanny, a native of Evergreen Park, Ill., will join Chicago’s Triple-A Iowa roster.
I know the rumors of this deal have been flying all day, and it was just made official. The only surprise to me is that Gorzelanny is headed to Iowa -- I was certain he'd be joining the starting rotation, replacing Hart until Ted Lilly comes back. Now, it appears the replacement would have to be Sean Marshall, who threw an inning today. In any case, they've got four days to figure it out.
Honestly, I'm happy with this deal. Hart did a good job in his four starts, but his control isn't the best and Gorzelanny, who is only six months older than Hart, had a 14-win season as a rotation starter two years ago for the Pirates. If he can recapture what he had that season -- and he's been very good at Indianapolis for the Pirates this year -- the Cubs got a good lefthanded starting pitcher for virtually nothing. He's a Chicago-area native (Evergreen Park) who, although he grew up a White Sox fan, has to be happy to be returning home to pitch. Jose Ascanio has a good arm, but the Cubs have lots of good similar arms, and though Josh Harrison has talent, I don't think he's any great loss to the system.
I would imagine that the Cubs will go with the extra relief pitcher until Hart's spot in the rotation comes up next Tuesday, then Gorzelanny could be recalled.
Use this post to discuss the trade; I'll also have a game recap up soon.
0 recs | 415 comments
Wow just got the word (thx Twitter)
Seems like a promising deal. I liked Kevin Hart but this deal has upside.
ChipSet - July 30, 2009
Hedge your bets
Buy your Harrison Jersey now. The Pirates will be world champs come 2015. They are building for the future.
gaclaudy - July 30, 2009
Buy your Harrison jersey now, Pittsburh will be the World Champs in 2015!
gaclaudy - July 30, 2009
I think I like this deal
I think this deal, more than most, is one that is hard to judge right now because of the players involved.
That said, I think I like this deal. I think for once (or at least rarely) Hendry sold high with Hart, who was performing over his head. I was a big fan of Ascanio, but we do have other power arms in the system, notably one we acquired in the offseason – Jeff Stevens. Harrison’s OK, but we’re obviously set at third.
Grabow is a solid lefty, something we really needed out of the bullpen. And I’ve always been a fan of Gorzelanny, who if he can turn it around could be the best player of the five.
Brian17 - July 30, 2009
This comment sums up my feelings pretty well...
Hart is selling high, Ascanio is good and has upside, but stevens fills the same role, and Harrison’s position is covered. Grabow will help and Gorz has huge upside. I like the trade a lot!
Dayton Cubbie - July 30, 2009
why jimbo
why
jesus christos - July 30, 2009
Is it Hart, Asciano or the Single A guy I've never heard of the one you're going to miss the most?
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
its more of who he got
instead of who he let go
jesus christos - July 30, 2009
you didn't want Grabow?
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
i did want him but then i looked at his splits v LH batters
lefties have a .275 BA against him
jesus christos - July 30, 2009
meh...look at his K to walk ratio...
and in only 2 xtra base hits (1 2b and 1 HR) in 58 PA
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
ehh
well see…
jesus christos - July 30, 2009
his OBP and SLG are almot identical for RH and LH batters...
he’s seemed to have just bad luck or bad defense against LH battters.
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
BA is a dying stat
unless you ask me, in which case it’s a dead stat.
northernsails - July 30, 2009
I agree
How long until the de facto Triple Crown is not the canonical one?
cubbybear - July 30, 2009
Indeed.
He’s a relief pitcher so there’s the whole sample size issue. His K/BB over his career is terrific against lefties and crummy against righties, but his BABIP against lefties (in 544 PA) is high… so I’d expect he’s had a bit of bad luck against left-handed batters that’s not particularly likely to continue.
aldimond - July 30, 2009
exactly
grabow is miserable and gorzelanny’s worse. gorzelanny had one good half of major league baseball with a 3.10 in the first half 07. second half he was at 5.01 with a 1.62 whip and then we all saw what happened last year as the cubs did their best to get his era close to seven with a 6.66 era and 1.80 whip.
i like harts stuff and harrison actually looks pretty solid, hit .337 and .319 in 609 minor league at bats. this was just a pointless trade.
kylejo - July 30, 2009
.337 in peoria
kylejo - July 30, 2009
Do you like Hart's 18 walks in 27 innings?
Good arm, but no control.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
Don't you know that every Cubs prospect
is awesome, especially when they don’t play for the Cubs anymore
LT - July 30, 2009
Yeah, I'm still missing
Hee Sop Choi, Bobby Hill and so many of our can’t miss prospects that we’ve squandered.
bubbamike the one and only - July 30, 2009
Don't forget mr. foot.
cubbybear - July 30, 2009
I miss my mind the most
gaclaudy - July 30, 2009
I live near Peoria
and that Single A guy is “The Man”
Charlemagne - July 30, 2009
Will Lou actaully use Grabow as a LOOGY?
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
Nope.
He’ll probably use Marshall still on the off-days when it’s not his turn in the rotation. Afterall, he can’t pitch to more than one batter. Why waste a good thing? :-p
s/
CubsWin!Oregon - July 30, 2009
I always liked Harrison
I thought he could be a fine utility player. Ascanio is the only guy in this deal that I cared about giving up. An OK trade, but if Grabow is a Type A (and we offer arb, which is a big if) and we get picks for him, this deal will look much better.
thecoolest - July 30, 2009
Harrison a fine utility player?
When? Three or four years from now?
As noted above, this is selling high on players who will probably never be better. Lou has two lefties in the pen now (unless Marshall starts). This is a very good deal.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
he'll start for the pirates by next july, probably.
tim815 - July 30, 2009
How old is Harrison?
He was a 2008 draft pick.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
Just turned 22.
I lliked this deal. Sold high on both Hart and Harrison. Got a LOOGY, and possibly another LH starter in Gorz.
Nice job Jim.
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
22
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Harrison, at the ceiling of his potential, could be a Chone Figgins type
I enjoyed following him this year.
SackMan - July 30, 2009
Possibly, but...
… as I said, when? Three years from now?
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
We could have multiple WS Trophies by then.
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
Wouldn't that be nice.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
And I'll be the Nobel Prize winner.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
i challange you to a boxing match
for it
Cubbie-Tim - July 30, 2009
And Al gets a Pullitzer
And thanks BLou on the stage
cubbybear - July 30, 2009
And then the Pirates will trade us Harrison for more prospects.
You never “lose” prospects when you trade them to the Pirates – you just stash them there for a while. If they pan out and actually want to get paid, Pittsburgh will immediately trade them back for more 20 year olds. And the circle of life continues.
I’m looking forward to adding Clement and Alderson in a few years.
D98 - July 30, 2009
harsh
true, but harsh
tim815 - July 30, 2009
A 4-A ball club
gaclaudy - July 30, 2009
hahaha
sad, yet true.
I still believe that Pirate fans need jerseys with velcro name plates
Cubbie-Tim - July 30, 2009
Is there such a thing?
I thought a Pirates fan was like a unicorn or Lockness Monster. Things you heard about but never seen.
gaclaudy - July 30, 2009
no, they exist
on bucs dugout, where i saw the following exchange, regarding the yet unfinalized trade.
maybe vitters for gorz/grabow
i don’t know that we would come out ahead in that one.
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Loch Ness?
northernsails - July 30, 2009
Wrecked
xarker - July 30, 2009
I bet he starts next week
Who else is left for them to play?
gaclaudy - July 30, 2009
ascanio was a chip
if we’re gonna get used to stevens. and guzman. and marmol. we had ascanio to move.
i miss harrison, but if either pitcher we traded for does well, it’s a solid win.
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Ascanio
Has never turned out to be the pitcher that we or Atlanta hoped he would be. He has already hit the high point of his trajectory.
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
Exactly
Great job by Jim of selling high. If for some reason he does pan out, as pointed out above, the Cubs have plenty of over strong armed righties in the system.
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
let's hope this gets us over the hump and a third Central Crown
…and a LONG run in October!
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
The Cubs needed pitching help
They got it. Best of luck to Hart and Ascanio.
Ace Venom - July 30, 2009
Seems like this is all about getting Marshall into the rotation.
Hart has more value than Gorzelanny, I mean, it’s been quite a while since he’s been good. He’s like Rich Hill II. Grabow is just a guy and hasn’t even been all that good against lefties. The fetish for lefties has killed us this season.
dakoose - July 30, 2009
Can't compare Gorzelanny and Hill
Hill completely lost his control and couldn’t throw strikes at ANY level
Gorzelanny has an ERA in the 2’s at Triple A
Brian17 - July 30, 2009
Gorzelanny won 14 games in the major leagues in 2007...
… with a 1.39 WHIP and 3.88 ERA, very good numbers. He was awful last year (the Cubs pounded him a couple times). He appears to have recovered that 2007 level at Triple-A. Well worth the risk, as he is almost the same age as Hart.
The Cubs gave up nothing they really need, and got some pitchers who could be very good. This is a good deal.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
Gorz has always had a decent WHIP.
the only good WHIP that Hill has had the last few years is the one he bought in Mexico.
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
Plus, Gorz is from the Chicago area.
Maybe a change of scenery and the return home will do him good. Pitching for the Pirates must be soul-crushing after a while.
D98 - July 30, 2009
this isn't Pittsburgh!
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
could be another deal working beneath the surface
Ivy Walls - July 30, 2009
I agree w/Al
Hill and Ascaino were the two guys in that “26-32” portion of the 40-man roster who were the most tradable as there were others in the “33-40” portion who can step into their place. Meanwhile, Gorz. will probably stay at AAA through the end of the season, will give them a long man in September, and is under club control for the mix for the #5 starter next year.
This also probably means the end of the BJ Ryan festivities, as his deal was that he has to be promoted within 15 days or he’s gone.
Invalid User - July 30, 2009
Not necessarily.
He could replace Samardzija.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
Shark needs to go back to Iowa
and learn a second pitch.
Allie - July 30, 2009
Yesterday
You said he still needed to learn one pitch.
propheteer - July 30, 2009
No I didn't
he’s got 1 1/2 pitches.
A decent fastball and sort of a splitter. He needs a change or something. He’s never going to survive a lineup more than once without it.
Allie - July 30, 2009
She says he has 1.5 pitches
any time his name is mentioned on the site. She’s like BLou when it comes to him.
tomas21 - July 30, 2009
Well Blou has 1.5 opinions
KaliCub - July 30, 2009
I don't think I'm that irrational
and horrible about it.
If I have been, I’m sorry.
Allie - July 30, 2009
I think you were kidding when you said it
It was funny at the time, but not so much anymore. :)
propheteer - July 30, 2009
Hm
okay then.
Add that to list of things I’ve been told I’m being annoying about.
Allie - July 30, 2009
It was during yesterday's game thread.
Not annoying, but humorous.
propheteer - July 30, 2009
might have been funny
but it’s still true. He doesn’t have two pitches.
drewishdrewid - July 30, 2009
And if BJ actually turns it around...
….that is one VERY GOOD Bullpen.
carmen_fanzone - July 30, 2009
save heilman, of course
carmen_fanzone - July 30, 2009
Why does Lou have such a quick trigger finger for the
dog house for guys like Stevie Ire, but he shows so much patience for guys like Howry and Heilman? Is he a LOOGY-bigot? He seems to keep these troubled righties on a long leash when he has so many more to choose from.
Let’s see what he does with this batch of lefty arms…
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
The President of the Aaron Heilman Sucks Fanclub approves of this here message
chilango2 - July 30, 2009
He had no patience for Wuertz either.
There are just guys he likes and guys he doesn’t. It seems like first impressions stick for a while for Lou.
DGU - July 30, 2009
heilman would be ok
for when we’re down seven
tim815 - July 30, 2009
when he comes in
and starts his own inning… and someone else is ready in the ‘pen… he’s fine.
Allie - July 30, 2009
or hurlman
tim815 - July 30, 2009
I'm not sure that Lou would know what to do with TWO lefties in the pen
Plus, we have to bring David Patton back someday…. :)
Invalid User - July 30, 2009
i think he might have a severe blister problem in a couple weeks.
he’s ours as long as we don’t option him
tim815 - July 30, 2009
someday is September
We can bring him back when rosters expand but he served his 90 days and he is ours to keep.
Doggie Stalker - July 30, 2009
I thought somebody posted that he had to come back in 30
as part of the rule V deal, so they’d have to bring him back in early August for a few days and then DL him again to September 1.
Invalid User - July 31, 2009
Is the thought
to bring up BJ Ryan and put Grabow in the pen and move Marshall into the starting rotation again to replace Hart? Seems like solid moves to me.
gwood - July 31, 2009
I like Gorzelanny
But it’s also worth noting that Indianapolis is a notorious pitchers park (think 408 to left-center and 380 to right-center).
He’s going to top out around 92 and sit around 89-90 with a solid changeup. When he’s keeping the ball down and hitting his spots, he’s solid. He’s going to need to soak up as much knowledge from Ted Lilly as is humanly possible when he reaches Chicago.
Bill Potter - July 30, 2009
I like it
Hart has a live arm- too live at times and he did his job here this season. Best of luck to him in Pittsburgh- save for when he pitches against the Cubs.
The only downside as I see it right now is that we are going to have to find additional uses for “The Employee” jerseys
ZuletaFan - July 30, 2009
Good deal...
Getting Marshall back into the rotation is a good move. Selling high on Hart is a good move. Ascanio may pan out, but it won’t be with the Pirates.
Ross - July 30, 2009
Anyone else think we may have traded Hart so we could bat against him later this season?
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
That Jim Hendry
he is so sly like that
LT - July 30, 2009
sure beats
Giving up Hak Lee, Hoffpauir and Stevens like BLou so confidently predicted.
CalCalender - July 30, 2009
Or Jay Jackson for that manner
I would have hated to part with him
Dayton Cubbie - July 30, 2009
Exactly.
They really gave up no one of note. Thanks to Kevin Hart for doing a nice job filling in.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
Yeah
Ascaino could be a good late inning guy but if you get Gorzelanny fixed you have a decent back end starter.
Good Trade.
CalCalender - July 30, 2009
true
and we’ve already got marmol, guz and gregg.
slcathena - July 30, 2009
Agreed.
I cringed when Jay Jackson’s name started being tossed around. The Cubs traded away three players who either didn’t fit into their plans (Harrison, Hart) or are easily replaced with what they already have in the system (Ascanio).
What will be interesting, and ultimatley determine if this was a good deal or not, is how Lou uses both Grabow and Gorze. It has the potential to be a really good deal for the Cubs.
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
+1
leothelip - July 30, 2009
Looks like Grabow has had some freakish bad luck
BABiP is .394 vs LHB for the season.
Allie - July 30, 2009
Wow, that is insanely high
Even with a low sample size (I think I read 60 PA earlier). Drop that BABIP to just .300 and he’s pretty good against lefties.
Invalid User - July 30, 2009
He's a reliever.
Tiny sample size… .394 BABIP in that many PAs is not unusual, there’s just so much noise there. For his career his BABIP against lefties is .351, but even that’s only 544 PA so it could still be flukey. He strikes out tons of lefties and doesn’t give up many walks or XBHs to them, so it’s not like they’re just on top of everything he throws. Maybe the defense has been playing them to pull but they’re going oppo… but I wouldn’t be surprised if it signified nothing.
aldimond - July 30, 2009
I guess that makes sense
it just struck me as bizarrely high.
Allie - July 31, 2009
He has been
pitching for the Pirates, not the best defense there is, so that is likely a factor
gwood - July 31, 2009
Saw Gorz start in Indy Monday
And he looked good. 6+ IP only 2 ER 7 H 1 BB 6 SO. As Al mentioned he has been pitching very well in AAA and could be a LOGGY with LH batting .159 against him
gwl17 - July 30, 2009
Anyone not really thrilled...
About moving Marshall back into the rotation? He wasn’t very good as a starter this year, and he’s been great in his new role lately.
CubsBullsBears - July 30, 2009 via mobile
Gorzelanny may wind up in the rotation.
We’ll see.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
with Hart
gone now I would have to think he will be up soon
CalCalender - July 30, 2009
I would think they'd keep the bullpen guys until Tuesday, when Hart would have started...
…. Gorzelanny could be recalled then.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
yep
CalCalender - July 30, 2009
I agree Al.
When was his last start? No need to bring up a guy who just pitched.
cubswin - July 30, 2009
I think someone said it was last night.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
Gorzelanny>Hart?
Grabow>Ascanio+kid?
I’m still on the ledge.
chilango2 - July 30, 2009
Get off the ledge...
This helps the Cubs in a lot of ways. They got a lot of positives out of Hart. Only time will tell if it is a big win or a big nothing. That is a lot of time to be on the ledge.
Ross - July 30, 2009
now veal is their loogy?
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Get off the ledge
It is great that Hart really delivered on his last couple of starts this year — it reminds me of the way Sean Gallagher did that last year.
Do you know where Sean G. is now? Just traded from Oakland to San Diego. The main piece in the Harden deal for Oakland, and they have given up on him already.
Did you watch much of Hart or Ascanio pitching? Did it really give you a warm feeling, in either case, that we need more of this?
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
my feeling with hart was
he could be an option for our 7th starter in 2010. if harden leaves.
tim815 - July 30, 2009
I'm glad Hart
could be a piece in getting something.
But I liked Ascanio, or what little I did see of him.
But if Gorz can learn from Lilly about how to pitch as a lefty in the bigs it could be a really good trade.
Allie - July 30, 2009
Actually the main piece was Josh Donaldson
No idea how he is doing.
Doggie Stalker - July 30, 2009
Donaldson?
Do you mean Josh Harrison?
northernsails - July 31, 2009
Josh Donaldson was a key piece in the Rich Harden deal, not this one.
Al Yellon - July 31, 2009
Cannot compare any two pitchers in that way
Especially since Grabow is a pen guy and Gallagher was a starter.
Seriously, I like them getting Grabow. I liked Ascanio’s upside, but for the here and now (Cubs are in a playoff race, helloooo), Grabow is the better player.
I wish Jimbo could get Beimel as well, or package Grabow with some young talent to screw the Nationals over.
northernsails - July 30, 2009
Sorry Al,
That was supposed to say “or packaged Ascanio”
northernsails - July 30, 2009
I'd like to see Marshall and Gorz both get 3 IP in the next start.
And go from there.
DGU - July 30, 2009
I am thrilled
Marshall WAS good as a starter when he was used there the past couple years. He didn’t blow people away or bring no-hitter stuff, but you always knew what you were getting from him. Really solid end of the rotation guy, which is what he will asked to be (for a brief period of time)
Brian17 - July 30, 2009
I agree
Marshall has a good approach, and does whatever this team needs him to do. He will have success either as a starter or reliever.
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
Marshall was good for all but one start.
Take out his last start this year and he had a 3.79 ERA & 1.29 WHIP in 40 IP, with 29 Ks.
DGU - July 30, 2009
I hate Tony La Russa because he's credited with having invented the LOOGY.
And I thunk it is a waste of a roster spot. Advanced metrics suggest that rather than using a LHP or RHP in a certain situation due to RH or LH, it is most advantageous to use, simply enough, the best pitcher available.
Dan
PS – Read THE BOOK for more on this.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009 via mobile
Another LaRussa Invention: 1-Inning Closer
I give Dennis Eckersley a lot of credit for being the great closer he was. However, LaRussa was the first manager to use that one inning closer philosophy a lot. I know Lee Smith got his share of 1-inning saves with the Cubs before Eck ever got to Oakland., but Eck seemed to be the first closer who got the majority of his saves in 1-inning stints. Again, I’m not taking anything away from Eck, but the closer role got redefined by LaRussa.
I would redefine the save with the following conditions:
Okay, some saves would still be wimpy under those conditions. The save chances would be harder than they are now. There’s not much chance the save will be redefined. That “1 inning save entering the game with a lead of no more than three runs” rule needs to go. I just thought I would throw that out there.
memphiscub - July 30, 2009
just don't mess with
the hold. i detest that stat.
enter with a one run lead. walk. single. lineout to third. walk. leave. get hold.
tim815 - July 30, 2009
almost as annoying as a "quality start"
a 4.50 ERA shouldn’t be “quality”
Allie - July 30, 2009
i don't mind the quality start so much,
but if a starter goes more than 6 and gives up his 4th ER in the eighth, he loses his QS. that’s crap.
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Quality Starts
I could go for 7+ IP while giving up 3 runs or less being a quality start. That would get the ERA under 4.00. However, the majority of starters don’t go at least 7 innings these days.
If you only pitch 6 innings, you should not be allowed to give up more than 2 runs and be credited with a quality start, but baseball will survive just fine with the current definition of save and quality start. I just love griping about it.
memphiscub - July 30, 2009
GRUMBLE.
1. A starter with a 4.50 ERA gives a team with a decent offense and ’pen a decent shot to win.
2. A pitcher that has quality starts in most of his appearances gives his team at least a decent shot to win most of the time.
That is what quality starts measure. It doesn’t mean ZOMG CY YOUNG. It doesn’t say all that much about the individual game. It means you didn’t get shelled. A pitcher that does it most of the time will have an ERA better than 4.50.
Think about it like a hitting streak. In a typical game (forgetting the silliness of ABs and BA) you have 4 ABs. Getting a hit once means you bat .250. So are long hitting streaks mediocre because you only have to bat .250? No! It means you’ve avoided the dreaded o-fer for a couple weeks, and you’re probably hitting well over .250 in the streak. If a pitcher has 6 quality starts in a row, or in all but three starts in a season, that’s pretty good, which is why announcers bother to mention it.
aldimond - July 30, 2009
Right.
The ERA of 4.50 doesn’t really speak to the “quality”. All it means is that your team has gotten to the 7th inning allowing three runs or less. Most teams with a good offense and decent bullpen — as noted above — should win those games.
Al Yellon - July 31, 2009
Tony LaRussa invented the internet
DC Cubbie - July 30, 2009
And kept Zima in the market for years
chilango2 - July 30, 2009
LOL
memphiscub - July 30, 2009
Does Tony twit?
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
Don't know but he may tweet
sue369 - July 30, 2009
Anti-LOOGY
You state an obvious point which needs to be stated. Who would you rather have facing a LH Hitter in a late game crucial situation..A generic LOOGY like Will Ohman/Grabow/Remlinger, or Carlos Marmol?
I think the LOOGY fetish developed because Big League managers like to think they employ great tactical skills in their jobs, when in fact the basic task of a manager is to put the best 9 players on the field and then spit and scratch in the corner of the dugout.
perseman - July 31, 2009
great deal
hart was good but grabow and gorzelanny have more major league experience. i think this trade gets the cubs into the playoffs. if not the division at least the wild card.
dabears85 - July 30, 2009
al
was this pretty close to ‘the trade’ from deep goat?
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Close, yes.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
i was thinking a 'vet' might be involved
cough, aaron somebody, cough
tim815 - July 30, 2009
I think "unconditionally released" is the best position for that guy.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
either, or both
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Was Duke
the guy we would’ve been excited about? Because I think these guys could help us, but I wouldn’t classify myself as excited about it.
tomas21 - July 30, 2009
Duke was part of one rumor I heard, yes.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
doesnt make sense
trading away 2 relievers…when they couldve kept mike wuertz this offseason
Asfan4ever723 - July 30, 2009
lou didn't know how to use
wuertz.
and all those ground balls would’ve found their way through our sieve of a MIF
Allie - July 30, 2009
Wuertz folded like a cheap lawn chair under pressure. Let's move on...
How can you say this “doesn’t make sense?” Hart is at best a marginal #5 on the Cubs and Ascanio can’t stay on the big league team. Both Gs have a chance to add meaningful value to this team THIS YEAR. We shall see—but to say it doesn’t make sense? It is a risk worth taking, I think.
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
marginal 5
as long as someone is hurt
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Exactly
He was more lucky than good in his starts.
carmen_fanzone - July 30, 2009
lot of fly balls
to the track
tim815 - July 30, 2009
And
David Aardsma would look pretty good as our closer right now
gwood - July 31, 2009
Jay Jackson was pulled from his start with no reason..
Something else is up?
Milton's Gameboard - July 30, 2009
promoted
jesus christos - July 30, 2009
dude...around here we say rec'd
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
Haha
Terrific.
DamonBerryhillsMitt - July 30, 2009
I don't think they
pull you in the middle of a start to be promoted, do they??
DamonBerryhillsMitt - July 30, 2009
I GUESS JIMBO TRADED FOR LIND
jesus christos - July 30, 2009
Did they throw in HALLADAY?
cubbybear - July 31, 2009
lind halladay scooter for miles scales and jackson
sounds buena to me
jesus christos - July 31, 2009
lol.
slcathena - July 31, 2009
Really?
I thought it was a demotion
Dayton Cubbie - July 30, 2009
cool
but god we are assholes for trading Hart right after he got us a win…haha.
HardForharden - July 30, 2009
we're nicer than the astros
who released ortiz less than 20 minutes after watching him implode
Allie - July 30, 2009
did they really?
hahahahaha….i wonder if he was still in the dugout.
HardForharden - July 30, 2009
woah.
Really?
slcathena - July 30, 2009
Yep
Russ posted a fanshot on it… heres the link he used.
Allie - July 30, 2009
thanks,
I missed that
slcathena - July 30, 2009
Like I said before
Hart was given two choice before the game:
1) Get the “W” and we ship you to Pittsburg
2) Get the “L” and we ship you to DC
Get a no decision and we make you ride in a car to Pittsburg and DC with BLou!
gaclaudy - July 30, 2009
motivation
tim815 - July 30, 2009
I agree
I think its a good trade, but its pretty cold to do that to the kid right after he picks up the win
goodstuff96 - July 30, 2009
Hart can have Onedec on his backside now!
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
I don't know.
Hart’s likely to get more major league playing time with Pitt. Could work out to be something of a promotion, even if for a sucky team.
Inkin - July 30, 2009
he's going to have the opportunity
to be a regular starter. Even if Pittsburgh sucks, he’ll be able to build a real career.
drewishdrewid - July 30, 2009
we gave up...
Look at it this way, the player we gave up originated from Freddie Bynum, Jacque Jones and Will Ohman.
speed skater - July 30, 2009
There's
some perspective for you.
gwood - July 31, 2009
May I remind the board that many were screaming for Hart to be released when he was up earlier and performing poorly?
Good luck Kevin and welcome Tom Gorzelanny. He’s going to be a star in the future at Wrigley!
leothelip - July 30, 2009
Pittsburgh Pirates...
Cubs AAA affiliate since 2003…
TeddyThunder - July 30, 2009
i
wouldn’t get too cocky. The Pirates have made some good trades this year and added a good deal of young talent.
CalCalender - July 30, 2009
i think
he is saying that their team takes all of our young prospects for their stars…aka Aramis Ramirez, Randall Simon, Jason Kendall. lol
HardForharden - July 30, 2009
kendall came from the A's to the Cubs
elgato - July 30, 2009
Actually, Kendall came from Oakland
for Rob Bowen.
markleonette - July 30, 2009
the Pirates do this every 2-3 yrs...and proceed to sell it all at contract time again, 2-3 yrs later
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
Now they have no one left with big contracts like that.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
but in 2-3 yrs, when these young guys come up and start to produce, the Bucs
will have to decide who to keep and sign or who to trade. Same old story. Maybe it takes 3-5 yrs for some of these guys, but eventually, you gotta lock guys up or move ’em.
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
But as of now...
… when they come to Chicago in two weeks, they will basically put a Triple-A team on the field.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
you just guaranteed them a series win Al....thanks.
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
True, Hart is another of those mysterious really young guys the Cubs have never
faced…
N Oakley - July 30, 2009
You think that problem is a scouting issue?
I tend to think they should be about average against first starters, but they seem to underperform.
cubbybear - July 31, 2009
Probably, I've always chalked it to overconfidence and lack of data.
Facing Hart will be telling. After years as a Cub in the minors and his relief appearance and starts for Lou, there should be no lack of data. We’ll see if the other times it’s scouting.
N Oakley - July 31, 2009
Who has more games left with them, us or the Cardinals/Brewers?
If we’ve played more so far, than this actually hurts us.
madcow256 - July 30, 2009
True.
Looking over their roster, most of it started the year in Indianapolis.
Bill Potter - July 30, 2009
And the Yankees', and the Red Sox's, and the...
chilango2 - July 30, 2009
Today's pitching matchup. LOL.
Nice job… now pack your bags! Both of you.
SackMan - July 30, 2009
I wonder how many times that's ever happened...
the starters of a game from both teams being moved off the team on the same day as the game.
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
It's possibly a baseball first.
CubbieintheSouth - July 30, 2009
Contract Status...
Anyone know the contract status’ of both Gorz and Grabow? How long are they under our control now
Dayton Cubbie - July 30, 2009
Pretty sure Grabow is a FA after this season.
Not sure on Gorz.
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
Contracts
Grabow is a FA after the season and is on track to be a Type A FA so he would garner 2 picks if the Cubs offer Arbitration. Gorzelanny will be Arb eligible for the first time after this season, so he is under team control for 3 more seasons.
circuitclout - July 30, 2009
cool
and thanks
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Thanks.
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
thanks!
Allie - July 30, 2009
Did we trade Ohman for
Ascanio?
CubbieintheSouth - July 30, 2009
Yeah
Ohman and Infante if I remember right
Dayton Cubbie - July 30, 2009
Yeah I forgot about Infante.
CubbieintheSouth - July 30, 2009
Gorzelanny
is still 26.
He’s been around so long I’d forgotten how young he was still.
Allie - July 30, 2009
As noted...
… Gorzelanny is only six months older than Kevin Hart.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
Yeah
I just never really realized he was still that young. He’s been on that bad pirates team for so long.
Not sold on the trade… but we’re now definitely more LH. That should make Lou happy.
Allie - July 30, 2009
Yeah
Can’t wait to see big Johnny Boy make the most of his PH at-bats.
cubbybear - July 31, 2009
Ohman and Infante
We traded Ohman and Infante. We got Infante from Detroit for Jones. Hart was from Bynum.
speed skater - July 30, 2009
Infante was traded for Ascanio...
… so in essence, he’s part of this deal too.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
We couldn't get
Jose Hernandez back either? That’s a shame…
jthack - July 30, 2009
I'm right here buddy
chilango2 - July 30, 2009
Soooooooo
We still have no backup catcher or power hitting outfielders.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009 via mobile
Our outfileders have been going off
CubbieintheSouth - July 30, 2009
Do you trust Soriano, Fukudome, and Bradley to hit the rest of the season like they are right now?
I sure as hell do not.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
not trust Dan....EXPECT.
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
Why not
Fukudome is probably a bit hot for what he really is, but Soriano is going to hit for his statistical average like he does every season, and Milton is also returning to his statistical averages.
nji232 - July 30, 2009
Why, yes
Off and on, returning to their averages after an awful start.
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
absolutely.
Soriano will likely streak some more, but I think things are really starting to click.
drewishdrewid - July 30, 2009
yep
no power hitting outfielders….i mean kosuke didn’t have 2 extra base hits today, and bradley didn’t have a homer….and soriano hasn’t hit like 5 homers in the last like 12 games no big deal though.
HardForharden - July 30, 2009
Woo-hoo!
I love it! We’re 100 games in, and this is both 1% and 12% of the entire season; great sample sizes.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
What do their
historical averages say?
Not Bruce Froemming - July 30, 2009
Ignore those
We’re only concerned with whatever sample size makes our guys look like crap.
madcow256 - July 30, 2009
Milton hits his WORST in August, September, and October.
And Soriano does his typical hot/cold/hot/cold thingie.
Dan
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
Well...considering how bad Milton has been in April, May and June.....
perhaps he’s just going against the norm this year.
Soriano going hot/cold/hot/cold might be a little easier to live with now that he’s batting 6th.
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
And last year Bradley had a
.356 .467 .559 1.026 line in August.
KaliCub - July 30, 2009
last year Bradley was a decent hitter all year
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
okay
.315 .413 .685 1.098 in 2007 in August. I hate using career stats sometimes when you’re talking about a player that has played in the majors really long.
KaliCub - July 30, 2009
don't let facts get in the way of an emotional argument
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
HA!
LAST YEAR! Don’t make me put my finger down my throat. What a joke. The #1 offense in baseball, with a MVP-caliber Josh Hamilton, I have no idea how the hell Milton parlayed his 2008 season into this $30,000,000 contract. He only played 126 games and most of that was at DH.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
So you're mad about his contract then..
then say that, but I was pointing out that you claim he doesn’t hit well in August when the last 2 years he has done good in August. But if you want to move the goal posts around…
KaliCub - July 30, 2009
His
Career
Averages
Clearly
Show
A
Significant
Decline
In
August
September
and
October
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
Wow you must be really angry to hit enter all those times...hehe
I guess by declining you mean except the last 2 years.
KaliCub - July 30, 2009
DO YOU WANT HIM TO USE CAPS LOCK!!!!!!!
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
Back away from the caps lock...
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
No,
but I’m being asked to use larger sample sizes, or career averages. Those are both of these things. It doesn’t get any more basic than “How does Milton hit in the 2nd half?”
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
you're both right...can we move on?
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
We're 100 games in and you want me to concede my Milton-bashing now?
Hell no, don’t leave me now, SWL, don’t you do it!
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
Look, can we please only stick to bashing the guy for what he's done....
not for what he’s yet to do or not do in the next 3 months? That’s taking it a little too far.
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
And I'm saying for the last 2 years he has hit well in August.
It was the same argument I heard about Sori and his leadoff thing. Those were back 4 and 5 years ago too.
KaliCub - July 30, 2009
aka: HCACSASDIASAO
update the BCB Dictionary Dan.
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
rec'd
CubbieintheSouth - July 30, 2009
AL! WHY IS BCB DICTIONARY, PART II CLOSED?! AGRGH!
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
Promoted
Shanghai Badger - July 30, 2009
He's having a down year compared to his last few
But how much would we have to give up to acquire a player who’s going to do better than that? I love to imagine the Cubs have unlimited resources (both prospects and money) but that’s simply not the case.
madcow256 - July 30, 2009
What???
CubbieintheSouth - July 30, 2009
Do you really expect Bradley to finish the year with numbers that could be so easily replaced
with our current roster and financial limitations? He might not be worth the $10mil we are paying him this year, but that doesn’t mean we can easily pick someone up who is.
madcow256 - July 30, 2009
Well July usually has
90 and 100 degree temps but that hasn’t happened. Maybe Milton is like the weather this year and be hot when he normally isn’t.
sue369 - July 30, 2009
it's called
slumps….they just all happened at the same time.
HardForharden - July 30, 2009
You want a better sample size?
How about their careers?
GoBackToSchaumburg - July 30, 2009
Soto will be back in a week
and our OF isn’t that awful offensively.
Allie - July 30, 2009
I'd still like Teahan.
slcathena - July 30, 2009
me too
jesus christos - July 30, 2009
610 Sports here in KC was talking about the Cubbies today.
They have an interest in Sam Fuld. Prob a good hour of talk like this.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
ok
what are they offering?
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Talking Teahen a lot.
I think their best bargaining chip (and 610 Sports agreed) is Jokim Soria. If that guy was in NY or LA he’d be on SportsCenter all the time.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
fuld for teahan?
straight up? wha?????
tim815 - July 30, 2009
No.
It was just the guys talking about players they knew on our team. They know we would like Teahen, and they’d like Fuld. I called in but couldn’t get through.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
thanks for the try
royals gm is an idiot. dealt for yunel
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Another Jim Hendry coup
if he pulled that one off
gwood - July 31, 2009
What would it take to get Soria?
N Oakley - July 31, 2009
Royals
Any word on what other teams, or what the else the Royals are looking for in return?
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
A major-league ready OF, preferrably CF.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
Fuld can play CF
Allie - July 30, 2009
Thanks.
I would be surprised if Jim could pull of a trade for Teahan centered around Fuld.
That would be great, though.
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
we could get Patterson and flip him
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
We could sign C.Pat, trade for E.Pat
and flip them for….
I can’t even keep the joke running. It’s too painful…
Although, I heard the Yankees are interested in C. Patterson. A sign and trade deal for Hughes?
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
i think yankee stadium is the only place patterson can boost his stats
jesus christos - July 30, 2009
Apparently Syracuse isn't...
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
Fuld for Teahan?
GITITDONEJIMBO!
Allie - July 30, 2009
BUT WHAT ABOUT FULD FOR LIND
jesus christos - July 30, 2009
Teahan.
More versatile. He’s like mini-DeRo
slcathena - July 30, 2009
I thought
MilesFreelBaker is a mini Dero?drewishdrewid - July 30, 2009
Hence the need for Teahen. :)
slcathena - July 30, 2009
id take teahen for fuld in a heartbeat
jesus christos - July 30, 2009
I would cry tears of joy.
slcathena - July 30, 2009
I mentioned him many times last winter
and he’s had an OK season.
chilango2 - July 30, 2009
Where did you see that Soto will be back in a week?
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
Uhhh
hold on. gotta find it.
Allie - July 30, 2009
Thanks!
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
I like the deal even if Grabow is just an average addition to the BP.
But if it means that Heilman moves just a little further down the line in the bullpen then I love the deal.
KaliCub - July 30, 2009
ftw
tim815 - July 30, 2009
Check out Grabow's Baseball Reference page
Scroll down to similarity scores and prepare to gag.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grabojo02.shtml
Clark Addison - July 30, 2009
Matt Thornton is a good pitcher.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
tho that does include his not so good time in Seattle
still a nice name to see him compared to though.
nji232 - July 30, 2009
then scroll back up to see his splits against the Cardinals and pitching in Busch.
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
I guess Steve Brightmann is gonna be pissed off.
Grabow was his favorite Pirate. What a lonely life that guy must be leading now.
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
Unless Hendry traded Hart for Halladay
someone would say he got ripped off. Who cares about Hart? Gallagher was a better prospect and look what he has done.
rlpete - July 30, 2009
Oh Pete,
Thank you. You just talked me off the ledge. That was the best rationalization. Thank you and rec’d.
chilango2 - July 30, 2009
seconded.
slcathena - July 30, 2009
thirded
Shanghai Badger - July 30, 2009
+1
I made the same comment way above. Oakland has already given up on Gallagher, and I found his starts last year less nerve-wracking than Hart’s this year. Did you see the two hit batsmen in the same inning early in the game today?
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
The Pirtates are collecting Cubs
gaclaudy - July 30, 2009
the cubs
are collecting pirates
HardForharden - July 30, 2009
Let's hope we got the same deal like before
I’ll take another A-Ram for Pittsburg.
gaclaudy - July 30, 2009
all of Pittsburgh?
that’s gonna deplete our minor league system something fierce…
drewishdrewid - July 30, 2009
Nah, their collecting Iowa Cubs and Peoria Chiefs
N Oakley - July 31, 2009
This is a good deal
But even at the very worst, it’s a push. But Gorzelanny has some upside to it, plus having a bonafide lefty in the pen (not Marshall masquerading as a LOOGY) is a plus.
Well done, Mr. Hendry.
Not Bruce Froemming - July 30, 2009
Bucs
Wasn’t the company line after the Bucs traded McClouth along the lines of "this isn’t a repeat of previous years. We’re just making room for McCutchen and we have every intention of being competitive with the guys we have"?
What a difference a few months make. I truly do feel sorry for Bucs fans. What has been done to that franchise is a shame.
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
I think they're going about this the right way
Not pussy-footing around. They’re going to get rid of everybody, practically, and start over. Maybe this time they’ll get some results.
Like the GM said yesterday after he dealt Wilson and Sanchez, it’s not like he’s breaking up the ’27 Yankees.
Not Bruce Froemming - July 30, 2009
Track record
True, but the Bucs have done this every couple of years. The 2009 Pirates, arguably, could have been turned into contenders by 2011/2012 with a couple of moves that left the nucleus in tack. They gutted the franchise again, and set themselves back even further.
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
True
but this appears to be a gutting with the intent of restocking the farm system a bit, which had been decimated during the Littlefield era. In other words, they were trying to build a mansion on a crappy foundation. That wasn’t working. Maybe this will.
Whatever, I hope it does, because I think it’s in baseball’s best interest to have a viable franchise in Pittsburgh. Plus PNC Park is an absolute gem.
Not Bruce Froemming - July 30, 2009
Possible.
Who knows in the gluttony of prospects they have received this week there could be a solid foundation on which they can build the team around to contend in a few years.
Couldn’t agree more about having a viable franchise in Pittsburgh.
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
Neal Huntington <> Dave Littlefield
Huntington studied under Mark Shapiro in Cleveland. So far, I’ve liked his moves – it is like what Dombrowski did when he took over in Detroit.
Invalid User - July 30, 2009
Good point.
IMHO the moves that are being made by Pittsburgh now have a better shot at working out long term than some of the head scratches made by the previous administration.
I was happy to hear the statements coming out of Pittsburgh after the McClouth deal that they were going to build a contender. I guess they still are doing that, just looking more into the future than I anticipated.
Tangled Up In Blue - July 30, 2009
absolutely
i think they’ve gotten really good talent in the last week considering what they’ve given up, which wasn’t much.
John T. Unger - July 30, 2009
Littlefield
should have been fired solely for giving that big contract to Matt Morris.
Not Bruce Froemming - July 31, 2009
they are building around Onedec
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
POST OF THE DAY.
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
RECOMMENDED.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
yep.
me too.
slcathena - July 30, 2009
Yabbut, they traded for Cedeno
N Oakley - July 31, 2009
Are the Bucs going to get rid of the red clown suits?
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
God, I hope so
I was in Pittsburgh last year for the Cubs series in September when they wore those. Cubs got beat, too. IIRC, I think Gorzelanny was the winning pitcher.
Those might be the worst “alternative” uniforms in baseball.
Not Bruce Froemming - July 30, 2009
Correction
That series was in 2007, not last year. Which stands to reason, b/c Gorz was pretty good in ’07.
Not Bruce Froemming - July 30, 2009
The Black Alts are their new ones...
…they don’t wear the McDonald’s uni’s any more.
carmen_fanzone - July 30, 2009
Best news
I’ve heard all hour.
Not Bruce Froemming - July 30, 2009
27 yr old lefty starter
Still a lot of upside.
ExNorthsider - July 30, 2009
I actually started to really like Hart. :(
lexmarklover - July 30, 2009
so did pitt :)))
tim815 - July 30, 2009
lefties lefties lefties
what’s with the infatuation with lefties. do we need three lefties in the pen? no, one maybe two. too much emphasis on match ups in this day and age. we need another solid bat. should of went and got Dunn for fox and hart and sent bradley to the moon
ronnievansanto - July 30, 2009
-1000
The thought of Dunn playing right field in Wrigley sends a shiver through my bones.
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
That's from all the home runs and RBI he would produce.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
no
it’s from all the singles he would turn into doubles and triples.
drewishdrewid - July 30, 2009
At first
I thought this was some misguided play on his speed, but then I got it.
northernsails - July 30, 2009
YSWIDT
drewishdrewid - July 30, 2009
Kinda like Pence did
all weekend. Pence did not play the caroms off the wall well at all and he is a good outfielder. I shudder to think what Dunn would do out there.
gwood - July 31, 2009
why cant we drop Iowa
and jsut affialiate ourselves with Pitt as out AAA team?
Cubbie-Tim - July 30, 2009
cuz Iowa has better prospects
tim815 - July 30, 2009
All they are talking about on ESPN News (207 on DirecTV) is
this BS about Ortiz and Ms Manny. Who cares?
You have 21 hrs to go in the trade deadline and that is current news. Interviews about a 6 year old story is just tired gossip. We want NEW gossip.
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
and you wonder why these leaks come when they do
its all about keeping the focus on roids
nji232 - July 30, 2009
The NFL has the list.
CubbieintheSouth - July 30, 2009
it could come out tomorrow that Tom Brady and Peyton Manning used steroids
and Ortiz would still be the story.
nji232 - July 30, 2009
and favre
tim815 - July 30, 2009
or Favre on roids?
leothelip - July 30, 2009
here is rachel nichols
in mississippi
tim815 - July 30, 2009
She should buy a house in Hattiesburg.
CubbieintheSouth - July 30, 2009
what about favre signing with the yankees
jesus christos - July 30, 2009
Interesting, 2 pitchers
Grabow certainly adds to the pen, could the Cubs be thinking of letting Heilman find a new home and bring up Gorz in the starters spot?
That would leave Gregg, Marmol, Guzman, Grabow, Marshall, Samardz, and then Stevens in the pen for now. G-men, M-guys and S-fellows in the pen if this occurs
Then if Lilly returns Gorz could find himself in the pen and Piniella has 3 lefties.
Ivy Walls - July 30, 2009
FYI
Gorzelanny’s last start was Monday… so he’d be scheduled to start on Saturday. If he does that, he’s unlikely to be recalled soon. If he just throws an inning of relief, say, tomorrow, that would put him on target to start on Tuesday. We’ll see.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
how long would it take for the trade to get completed?
why would he be on the hook for a start with pitt on saturday?
i’m confused.
Allie - July 30, 2009
Gorz was sent to our AAA affiliate
The start would be for them, not Pittsburgh.
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
Right.
I meant he’d be on schedule to start on Saturday. If he makes a start for Iowa that day, it would mean someone else would have to take Hart’s next turn on Tuesday.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
Ah
Okay. that makes sense.
I was really lost for a minute.
Allie - July 30, 2009
On the surface I don't like this trade.
Not because I feel like Hendry got ripped off, but because I don’t see how this benefits the team this year. Neither one of these pitchers are good. Grabow was alright last year, but he has given up far too many baserunners every other year of his career, this year included.
Gorzenally just sucks. Very, very uninspiring numbers.
kanderber - July 30, 2009
So you wouldn't like Grabow replacing Heilman?
vonde6 - July 30, 2009
Well, of course.
I’d love that. But it’s not happening, so I don’t see what your post has to do with anything.
kanderber - July 30, 2009
Look at Gorzelanny's 2007 season...
… and his Triple-A numbers from this year. Those numbers don’t “suck”.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
You're getting completely..
fooled by those AAA numbers. He’s been awful for more than a year and half at the major league level, and the only thing significant that changed in Indy was the quality of the hitters. Think of sending Sean Marshall back to AA, and what his stats might look like, and you begin to get an idea. Those AAA starts were bull, and if the Cubs took even two second to send a scout to Indy, they know that already. Don’t be surprised if you don’t see Gorzelanny with the big club at all this season.
Damen Jackson - July 30, 2009
I heard the Cubs scouted Gorzelanny pretty intensely.
We’ll see who’s right.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
If you say so...
My point is I don’t think they took him with the notion of him making contributions this season, ‘cause it ain’t likely.
Damen Jackson - July 30, 2009
I read a week ago
that the Pirates didn’t want to bring Gorzelanny up from AAA because his service time was nearing whatever milestone that would grant him arbitration rights. Sounds like they just didn’t want to keep him because he would get more expensive soon. Sounds like anyone could have had him for free. I think he was a throw-in.
JohnM - July 30, 2009
Heard ...
The same thing in Indy.
Damen Jackson - July 30, 2009
Then what's stopping the Cubs from bringing him up?
He’s not likely to get that much in arb from them, unless he somehow has 10 great starts the rest of the year.
In which case we’ll be very happy.
Al Yellon - July 30, 2009
True
If he pitches great, everyone’s happy. Cubs can afford him, and the Pirates saved some cash.
JohnM - July 31, 2009
Maybe they think they've got an easy fix
as they thought about Marquis.
Even if Gorz hasn’t been good, he has potential and could be good again.
DGU - July 30, 2009
I can believe that...
But people talking about him taking starts at the major league level as early as next week is making my head explode.
Damen Jackson - July 30, 2009
Damen, I've seen Gorzelanny this year in person (like you)
and while I’ll concede some of those numbers are the result of Triple-A competition and playing in an extreme pitcher’s park, he has looked better and more consistent than at any time over the last 4 years.
He seems to have figured out how to pitch, so to speak, and truthfully, he probably doesn’t belong at Triple-A any more, given his success. If he can translate his confidence in Indianapolis to the Major League level, then the Cubs will have stolen him from Pittsburgh.
Bill Potter - July 30, 2009
We're of the same mind...
Like I said, I’m just having trouble with people talking about contributions this season from him. I just don’t think that’s what the Cubs were envisioning.
Damen Jackson - July 30, 2009
I'd agree.
I would be surprised if he was plugged into the rotation next week (bringing a fresh face from Triple-A, laid-back Indianapolis to the pennant race doesn’t jive with me). I could see him in the bullpen, with Marshall starting, though.
I look for Gorzo to compete for a starting spot in February and March next year, maybe picking up a spot start this year if someone is injured.
Bill Potter - July 30, 2009
Agreed.
And for the record, the part of the deal that I’m really sour on is Grabow. Beimel would have been better, IMO.
Damen Jackson - July 30, 2009
Beimel would have cost more, though, I expect.
Meanwhile the Pirates were fresh from ripping off Sabean and didn’t need as much to make this trade deadline a winner for them.
DGU - July 30, 2009
See, this is what happens
when you show up late to the swap meet. You get there early, while the fried chicken and ice cream is plentiful.
Damen Jackson - July 30, 2009
lol
DGU - July 30, 2009
I could see Lou souring on Grabow quickly
If Jon doesn’t get his first few lefties out, I could see Lou burying him and Gorzelanny filling the role left behind by Marshall.
Bill Potter - July 30, 2009
Honestly...
I think they’ll end up giving Ryan every chance to fill that role. We’ll see, I guess.
Damen Jackson - July 30, 2009
I would hope so.
Ryan, when on his game, is far more effective than Tom Gorzelanny.
Bill Potter - July 30, 2009
I think the same thing could happen
and it’s one of the reasons I’m glad we got a second lefty in the deal.
DGU - July 30, 2009
True, but...
More relevantly, his numbers at the big league level this year and last year most certainly suck.
kanderber - July 30, 2009
I don't like it
First of all Rothschild can’t help any pitcher find anything….if he comes here lost he will remain lost…..everyone who leaves gets better when they leave….just look what Wuertz is doing in Oakland…K’s to innings pitched….even Marquis says he worked on some stuff in the winter….do you think that Rothschild can help Marmol find the strike zone again like he did at the end of 2007 and start of 2008…..NOOOO……thinking that guy can change anything is ridiculous….he just ruins pitchers…..Rich Hill. Anyhow Lefties hit better against Grabow than righties……what is this suppose to accomplish? Isn’t the whole point suppose to be lefties hit the lefty specialist worse. Lastly, Harrison is a good ballplayer….he was leading the Peoria team for awhile in hitting when he was down there….I seen him…..that means he was hitting better than Vitters for the better part they were down there …bad trade
zeus 73 - July 30, 2009
And yet we have a good pitching staff
KaliCub - July 30, 2009
You'd get a better response
if you used anywhere near proper English.
tomas21 - July 30, 2009
easy on the ellipses zeus
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
So any success a Cub pitcher has is all them, and failure is Rothschild. Got it.
In other words, Larry has nothing to do with Ted Lilly being in the best 3-year stretch of his career, Demp’s career year, Marmol in 2007 and 2008, Wood’s stellar 2008, Zambrano, etc.
Thanks for that.
Shanghai Badger - July 30, 2009
uh
hasn’t Marmol been nails his last few starts? And Harden appears to have figured out whatever it was that was ailing him. Larry’s got nothing to do with that at all?
drewishdrewid - July 30, 2009
there's not much to not like here
grabow’s walk rate does leave a little to be desired but he is effective against both righties and lefties, can pitch more than one inning, and can throw back to back days, so he gives Lou some versatility. so grabow gives you another useful arm in the pen and probably relegates heilman to long man/mop up/ROOGY duty for the rest of the year. i’d assume bj ryan will be coming up in the next couple of days to fill the role of LOOGY and marshall will go to the rotation at least until lilly returns.
gorzelanny gives you depth in the rotation for the rest of this year and will likely battle for a spot in the rotation next season. It doesn’t hurt to have a guy that’s 27, has had success in the majors and is under team control for 3 more seasons.
as an added bonus, the Cubs could end up with Harden and Grabow as Type A free agents and Reed Johnson as a Type B next season which could net them a nice return in prospects if they play their cards right.
circuitclout - July 30, 2009
grabow would be type a?
John T. Unger - July 30, 2009
according to MLBTR
he is a Type A now, obviously that could change before the end of the year but he’s on track for it.
circuitclout - July 30, 2009
Cubs fill needs without hurting themselves=good trade
I dont know what else to say. They didnt give up anything they dont have plenty of (solid young SP, power bullpen arm and a solid prospect). Grabow gives the Cubs a true bullpen lefty and now can use Marshall in the starting rotation without losing their only lefty reliever. Gorzellany doesnt excite me, but he has shown in the past he can be effective. I think 14 wins for the Pirates equates to 35 wins for a good team. We didnt give up much to get him, so we are playing with house money.
TRock - July 30, 2009
but why is he a "true" bullpen lefty?
as opposed to just another lefty? he’s not particularly adept at retiring lefthanded hitters. so explain to me why he’s a positive addition? we have righthanded relievers aplenty to deal with righthanded hitters. we needed someone who can get lefties out, like sean marshall.
John T. Unger - July 30, 2009
It seems like people want to quote minor league stats when it helps their case
and dismiss minor league stats when it hurts their case.
Just an observation.
LAcarl519 - July 30, 2009
So, I like the deal.
It’s not super exciting or anything, but I didn’t want Beimel and didn’t care much for either Ascanio or Hart, so Lou gets at least one lefty, maybe two, and we don’t lose anything we’re likely to miss.
DGU - July 30, 2009
Pirates Trades
Among position players, one could have a playoff contending team of ex Pirates:
OF: Jason Bay
OF: McClouth
OF: Nyjer Morgan
3B: Aram
SS: Wilson
2B: Sanchez
1B: LaRoche
C: Kendall
Now my question: Have the Pirates ever given up any pitchers (recently) who could make this list?
sweetswinger - July 30, 2009
Ian Snell
n/t
Damen Jackson - July 30, 2009
yeah but ian snell sucks
John T. Unger - July 30, 2009
I think he's serviceable...
But I see your point.
Damen Jackson - July 30, 2009
Debatable a bit
Sure he sucked in the bigs these past couple of years, but the talent is still there and the second they sent him down to AAA he dominated. Not like, oh he’s facing AAA hitters now dominating, but unhittable.
I think on a new team he can be a innings eater that give you decent numbers, he just really needed a change IMO.
nji232 - July 30, 2009
Oliver Perez
j/k
DGU - July 30, 2009
Mets Fans
Would give Ollie a big thumbs down—and no one would pick him up given his current contract.
sweetswinger - July 30, 2009
Jason Schmidt....
Jose Mesa, Mike Gonzalez, Kris Benson, Salomon Torres, Oliver Perez
All who had some success while with the Pirates.
carmen_fanzone - July 30, 2009
walks come back to bite you in the big leagues
k to bb ratio: 52-44 in the big leagues this year for ian snell.
John T. Unger - July 30, 2009
he's in Seattle
carmen_fanzone - July 30, 2009
how very carlos marmol of him
nji232 - July 30, 2009
Excellent Deal
Hart was overrated by Cubs fans after his quick start that first fall. He’s a decent middle relief/long man/spot starter, but no big loss. Ascanio, he’s a guy who might be a 7th inning, borderline setup type, but eh. No big loss there. Harrison? A nice guy in High A, but no big loss on that one either. He profiled as a utility guy (best case was 2nd base … and that isn’t a position that is that hard to find either). Think Mike Fontenot, with a dash of Sam Fuld (a little more speed than Fontenot) and a bit of DeRosa versatility. It’s not a big loss … and we have a couple guys behind him that profile similarly (for one, Dwayne Kemp, who might have more ability).
In saying all that, it’s not a bad trade for Huntington. It’s all about perspective. For us, it’s a gamble that Grabow finds his form and some depth. For Huntington, he’s trying to sell a lefty pen arm that hasn’t been as good this year, and a SP that was demoted to AAA.
toonsterwu - July 30, 2009
Haven't seen it mentioned, and I think it's an important point
Hart’s BABIP for the year so far is .235, he’s probably in for an unpleasant regression to the mean. Now it won’t happen to him on the Cubs.
shake n bake - July 30, 2009
I like the deal
Only Harrison may have some upside. where the Cubs get two lefthanders that will help now. I rather have Grabow throw in the 7th or 8th than Heilman, and for that I will take this deal.
Grockcubs - July 30, 2009
I'd rather have Doug Dascenzo in the 7th or 8th inning than Heilman.
santoswoodenlegs - July 30, 2009
Two reasons I'm glad we got Gorzelanny:
1. He went to KU. (I live in Lawrence)
2. We now have the ugliest player in the history of baseball.
bikemonkey - July 30, 2009
example:
bikemonkey - July 30, 2009
ahem.
drewishdrewid - July 30, 2009
Double ahem.
Al Yellon - July 31, 2009
Drew wins
N Oakley - July 31, 2009
Shanghai Badger - July 31, 2009
Hmm,
Awkward Face, check
Big Ears, check
Uniform, ahhhh, two checks.
Badger with a late entry wins by Mossi’s nose.
N Oakley - July 31, 2009
ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK
I’m @ 14th & Vermont.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
Nice location
I’m further south, on 30th street. I just got back from having a few drinks at the Jazzhaus.
bikemonkey - July 30, 2009
We should watch some Cubbies games together some time @ Wayne & Larry’s.
dtpollitt - July 30, 2009
Word.
bikemonkey - July 31, 2009
I’m an idiot.
bikemonkey - July 31, 2009
word
N Oakley - July 31, 2009
I believe the nickname
given above should stick: “Hurlman”
How fitting.
Just how I felt watching him at Wrigley Tuesday night.
The E-Man - July 31, 2009
trade
lets hope this helps. i dont want marshall in the rotation.the reason he is so good in the pen?because teams usually catch up to him after 5 or 6 innings. leave him where he is better suited.
NOMAR - August 1, 2009
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