Bleed Cubbie Blue

Amen to the name calling

It makes Cubs fans look really childish to other fans who may be visiting our site from another SB Nation site (say VEB?)…It must end

IUJoe - August 10, 2009 reply

Perhaps you will disagree, Al

And I do not pretend to be objective.

But the name-calling originated from, and mostly continued from, the numbers guys. Actually, one numbers guy in particular.

I don’t find personal attacks offensive. I’ve been called worse things by better people.

However, I understand your desire to stamp it down, for the site’s sake.

What I object to is the “both sides did it” routine. I’m not sure that’s the case, or if it was the case, it certainly wasn’t equal.

I can agree to a degree--

—but regardless of where it comes from, it’s probably not necessary.

I think it's the topic

The worst abuse I get on this site is when I slam Zambrano. That worries me a little bit, not for my own sake, but because I think Zambrano is turning into this icon figure that I don’t think is deserved.

Again, I think the comparisons to Favre are apt.

Let's not start this again.

At the risk of incurring Thorr's wrath . . . .

I suspect you don’t want this thread to deteriorate into what yesterday’s became, and I don’t blame you.

But, without delving further into the Zambrano discussion itself, Worf does have a point. If anyone says anything remotely negative about Zambrano, that person gets jumped on. Saturday, Jessica and I got flamed, and a frequent poster accused me of having it in for not only Zambrano, but somehow found a way to work Lou Piniella into the discussion.

I’m not interested in pursuing either discussion, but the larger point is, as chilango2 said in yesterday’s thread:

Attack the logic. Do not attack the man.

Passion is great, but there’s no reason to be blinded by it and get defensive because someone else doesn’t like your favorite player.

Attack the logic. Do not attack the man.

Unfortunately, with most of these posts there’s so little logic in the argument to attack that all that’s left is the man.

umm, you sort of started it again

by making a front page story out of the argument.

You can’t have it both ways. You want to let the discussion or argument to drop, not bringing it up again is a pretty tried and true method to doing just that

Illicat - August 10, 2009 reply

Agreed.

Especially when you imply an us-vs-them model by reducing an argument to which stats were secondary by dividing everyone into two groups – “stat guys” and “everyone else”.

Yep. It came from one user in particular.

And when a handful of us tried to point out exactly what Al said about the namecalling devaluing the arguments, that user got worse.

Whether it was equal or not, it still has to end.

I was not making specific accusations, and that doesn’t matter, anyway.

Just end it. That wasn’t aimed at you, either. It’s for everyone.

Do you have any stats to back up your assertion? ;)

gaclaudy - August 10, 2009 reply

Just out of curiosity, Al...

…if it keeps up, are you planning to take action against repeat offenders? I don’t post enough to really get into a namecalling session with someone, but will habitual abusers get some sort of banination in their lives?

Maybe.

Sweet.

I imagine you somewhat Thor-like while bring your hammer of justice.

^you bring

Wow...

Quality sucking up there :)

Haha, sure.

Sucking up is only designed to get you stuff, and I expect nothing from Al.

Though, the idea of seeing Thor sitting in the bleachers is pretty amusing.

I'll make sure to bring my lightning bolt.

that

would be zeus

That's right. Thorr had a hammer.

♫If I had a hammer♪

I like to think of Jesus as wearin’ a Tuxedo T-Shirt, that says, like, “I want to be formal, but I like to party too.” I like to party, so I like my Jesus to party too.

I'm all jacked up on Mountain Dew!

(grabs calculator & regression book)

The BLou Factor

The guy seems to ignite a lot of the arguments around here, and I’m not just blaming him. Sure he’s done his share of name-calling, and I’ve shaken my head at some of his comments, but often times it’s people responding to him that starts the verbal war.

I read his stuff, and I laugh. Some people read his stuff, and no matter what he posts, they jump down his throat. Everyone needs to just rise above the B.S., and recognize that everyone’s got an opinion, and the right to voice it, without the fear of being torched by fellow Cub fans.

Can’t we all just get along, and share in the misery/joy that goes along with following this franchise?

BLou was nowhere to be found in yesterday's thread

Right.

Only after the game, when the Cubs had lost.

Careful Al!

That’s almost name-calling!

;)

LOL

“Cubs lost”. That’s close to name-calling, right?

its hurts as much as name calling :(

I wasn't there either

I wasn’t talking specifically about yesterday, just in general terms.

We all get pissed when the Cubs play below our expected level, and unfortunately people take it out on each other.

It was evident in Saturday's game thread

I usually avoid those, but I went there to vcomiserate/vent before going out for the evening. BLou went there to kick a hornet’s nest and left when the Cubs took the lead back.

He appeared in the threads on Saturday.

He tried pointing out that we were wrong, as usual, and when some people (myself included) disagreed with his posts, nearly every comment from him turned into a jab at someone.

They were pretty nonsensical, too

He blasted Dempster, who deserved a lot better than his defense was giving him.

dammit Demp!

you can’t get six lousy outs in an inning? :P

That inning reminded me of Game 2. Sheesh.

At least in Game 2, they were spread out more

Actually, that doesn’t make it better.

Yeah, it was ugly.

Yes,

Also, check out this comment he made in reply to a comment I made that day (page up for my comment). How he came up with those conclusions is anyone’s guess.

Yeah, I caught that real-time.

Weird.

Here

is my 2 cents.

Stats are facts. They are a record of what happens in the game. When I argue I like to use facts. Fanposts like yesterdays contain statements like “Zambrano can’t hold Carpenters jockstrap!!” comments like this annoy me to no end. First because it isn’t true and can be proven to be not true. I linked to a huge amount of work that writers from over 3 other blogs have done regarding Zambrano and despite all of that you still get nothing but pithy one liners from the other side. So you have one group trying to have a rational, fact based analysis of a statement and the other side trying to be a BCB version of a sports talk radio host.

Look, if people are ignorant of stats because they are unfamiliar that’s one thing, it doesn’t take much to show how you get to these numbers. But when people are not only willfully ignorant but also proud of it thats when I lose all tolerance. You don’t deserve to be taken seriously when you do that and they should be challenged, openly and repeatedly, because I would hate to see opportunity for actual debate and maybe a little bit of learning drowned out by the bleating of a few repeat offenders.

All respect, Al

the fact that this guy still has an active account to be posting with makes me question just how serious you are about this.

This was the justification yesterday — that because we didn’t respect the Holy Shrine of Stats, we deserved to be called names. Essentially, we had it coming.

All respect, either get out of the way and let us settle it on the field, or umpire both sides.

how does somebody

“settle it on the field”?

Metaphorically speaking--

—let the “players” sort it out themselves.

are we going

to eFight? pistols at dawn?

An eFight...

… would have to be iPods at dawn.

Right?

Maybe someone will come up with an app

for that and make millions of $$$$ selling it in the app store?

cowsarecool220 - August 10, 2009 reply

Look, I'm not advocating it

But I think his point was that he was trying to tell Al he should be doing something about it already, or just let people sort it out. Eventually one or both parties will tire of it, and it’ll be done with, or someone will stop posting.

I’m not a big fan of this philosophy, as it makes for a completely not-enjoyable experience for everyone else here, but I get what he’s saying.

I don’t know if there should be sub heading for in-depth statistical discussions, but that seems silly when you could just, y’know, avoid the stats discussions if you don’t want to read them, and avoid the sugary intangibles discussions if you don’t want to read them.

that's the thing

It’s not like I was leading a discussion on how to calculate ZORP 3.0 yesterday. I was using anything from ERA + to WINS to show how Zamrano has been an elite pitcher for 6 years running and all you get is “Nope, Big Z SUCKS!!!”

No, you got people not liking Zambrano, which upset you.

Plus, let’s not forget your first comment on the original post:

Worf you win the top idiot of the day

Do you really not see how that wasn’t productive?

I could care less

if people don’t like Carlos Zambrano the person (I dont understand it but whatever). It’s when they act like he hurts the team as a player or blame him for getting hurt in BP that gets me going.

Your words yesterday tell a different story

Trying to compare him to Brett Favre and then making a claim that Z isn’t durable like Favre is beyond a joke. I will not respect such garbage and I really don’t care if that offends somebody. People should be offended that some internet dork can go out and disparage one of our best and most durable Cubs pitchers OF ALL TIME using no evidence or fact.

where in there

do i talk about Zambrano the person? His durability is on the field, it helps the team having a guy take the ball almost every time since 2003.

You missed the point again.

Namecalling is the issue here, not what you said about Zambrano.

Al, I'm sorry. I really was trying to help.

But all I’m doing is making it worse…I’m staying out of it with him, unless he attacks me again.

No, I know you were trying to help.

Some people just don’t get it.

you're right al

I just don’t get why you dont see how my name calling is = to Worf’s disrespect of those who take the time to consider and debate his rants.

I will try and keep the “dolts” and “idiots” out next time so we can spare hurt feelings.

Again...

Your OPENING LINE was

“You win idiot of the day”

Fine, fair enough. I can flame with the best of them.

But don’t pretend you were a Harvard professor here leading a lecture on quantum physics, pal.

You folks are all getting rediculous

Yeah, that'll settle things down.

This is exactly my point the other day

Day after day after day, it’s the same thing, move on, who cares who calls who what name, move on. It’s the internet people, they can’t hurt you.

I know, and your intent is good

But I don’t think this is going to work.

I understand,

But sadly it’s the same for the effort put forward by those of you trying to stop him. When yourself, or Worf or Al get in these peoples faces about the stuff they say, of course they will simply continue. Take the Blou stuff (which I actually find kind of funny, but a waste of space obviously) As long as people mock him he will continue. And sadly, nobody is going to read a threat from Al and stop what they are doing.

It's not a "threat".

It was a request. And if people can’t be civil here, I ask them to go elsewhere.

It becomes a threat

When people start talking about banning some people, that will make people push the envelope.

I think you truly don't understand what I'm saying.

And I wouldn’t go down the road you’re traveling.

see

that comes off as a threat against me, someone trying to push for everyone to leave it alone and talk baseball. I love to read the baseball talk.

You're totally misunderstanding my position.

Why would I threaten you? That’s absurd.

I see what you're trying to do

You just need to be careful of the way you go about it. Saying to me “I wouldn’t go down the road I’m travelling” suggests something. Same and saying to people “the name callling WILL stop” suggests something. This incites anger because people want to use the site without someone they don’t know telling them what to do.

This is my site.

There are a few simple rules to follow, nothing too onerous. If people can’t follow them, they can go elsewhere.

I think you're being trolled...

It would appear so.

It's an incredibly annoying troll job too

You are kinda loose on the Bow Tie Tuesday thing

But he's a pain-in-the-butt

about making us tuck our shirts in.

Shirts?

TMI TMI TMI

They may not be too onerous to you

But obviously to some of these other people they are. People should be stopped from discussing outright heinous acts, or real foul language, or sexual content, but come on, a little heated name calling. Everyone is an adult.

Can't . . . help . . . comment . . . too . . . much . . . irony

come on, a little heated name calling. Everyone is an adult.

Give me a break,

when you argue with your friends everything stays on the straight and narrow all the time? That’s ludicrous.

I greet my friends by flipping the bird

And they respond in kind.

However, we actually know each other and realize nothing is meant by it.

I like to think of Jesus as a mischievous badger

the edge ----->

it’s sooooo close!

I prefer my name-calling

cold, with swiss on rye.

Revenge IS a dish best served with swiss on rye

Revenge is best served with cake

And I like cake.

On that note, I must away …

It's real simple.

I have a rule here: no personal attacks on other posters. You don’t set the rules here. I do. If you don’t like them, you are free to leave.

You can find a hundred posts on this website

With yourself going on and on about how you’re in charge. It’s silly Al. You right a great game recap, and post incredibly smart stuff, but get over yourself.

And I'm write all the time!

You spin me write round baby rite round

I think "Holiday" by the Other Ones is underappreciated

Oh sorry,

I forgot, in such an adult world I should probably proof read a little closer. Holy moly. You guys have no ammunition against these guys who name call, you are all passive aggressive

Cha'DIch here....Worf may be many things

But he is NOT passive-aggressive.

In fact, he’s aggressive-aggressive.

He's blunt,

but he has a point.

Isn't that contradictory?

There's a hundred posts

…because people keep making him have to remind them.

It’s not like every recap starts with, “I am the almighty Al”

Although that would be cool if he did start his recaps like that

Ha!

Be cool if they did, though, wouldn't it?

(Psst . . . scroll down to the lower left.)

I know this is breaking the rule....

but you sir…are an asshole.

Ever notice how insults...

are much cooler when you put “sir” before them.

As in… “You sir, are a flaming glop of baboon vomit that has been left out in the sun for a week”

What is your problem?

I’m done with you. Follow the rules or get out.

See, it's that simple with you folks,

I’ve proved my point. I start a simple comment for everyone to move on with baseball, and it can so easily end up with me being asked to leave. But you guys are never in the wrong. I will make one point, I enjoy Shanghai Badger for what it’s worth, he always seems to have something interesting to add, and is on the ball.

No, your simple comment

was to call everyone inclusive ridiculous. Only after that did you begin to elaborate.

everyone loves Badger

it really is irritating.

Hey, we could have back to back shows on Friday nights on ABC!

“Everyone Loves Badger” followed by “Everyone Hates Worf”.

Maybe we can bring back Perfect Strangers and Head of the Class for the second hour!

Balky is up for it

Well, of course he is.

Don’t be ridiculous.

I only want this

if it’s Hesseman-era Head of the Class

And we have that redhead

Matt Murton?

Leave Matt out of this

Poor guy is still hitting up a storm in AAA but can’t get a call up.

Well, if he can't be in "The Show"

Why can’t he be in the show?

Still mostly singles?

Everyone has MOSTLY singles

But Murton has power in AAA
at least. 9 homers and 20 doubles with slugging percentage of exactly .500
which is not that bad.

Yeah, that is a pretty decent slugging percentage.

I’ve always wished Matt the best. If he could demonstrate the ability to hit for power consistently, he may still have a shot as a left fielder somewhere.

Carrot Top?

Absolutely.

I must add, those kids were so damn smart, but they started the show as what, sophomores? And spent 5 more years there?

As for following the rules

I don’t believe I have called anyone any names, I have used no foul language. I have merely made my points.

I think the problem was telling the moderator that he isn't the law of the land

When in fact, he is.

Wait

Al is in charge here?

Well, that's the rumor from Deep Goat

Except for...

…the ridiculous comment…your generally vague intimations that Al is on a power trip…and that none of us are smart enough to put together coherent arguments against your point, and we just resort to childish behavior.

Fair enough

I will save my spare change and get a passport and maybe someday, I’ll be able to visit you in the Land of Above it All.

I'm 100%

Stealing this saying…

bilbosbuttons - August 10, 2009 via mobile reply

wait, what?

It’s Al’s site. how he chooses to moderate it is his business.

Here you go

With nothing to add but to act like some sorta bodyguard or speaker for Al. I knew it wouldn’t take long for you or Sue to step in.

presuming you're talking to me

I’m hardly in the minority here; I came late to the conversation. It’s Al’s site. He articulated the rule above.

He can administer it as he sees fit. I don’t understand why this continues to be a problem for you.

Yes he can

But why do you continue to pile on or act as your some sorta speaker for him like he needs you to express his opinions/comments etc. He can do that just fine on his on. There are about 3 or 4 yall that tend to do that on a daily basis.

If I shouldn't render my opinion

because it’s already been stated, why are you allowed to render yours, when it’s already been stated?

Or better yet — if you don’t like it, don’t read it.

I have nothing to add to this

Other than this has got to be the longest chain of replies EVER.

wrigleyrocker12 - August 10, 2009 reply

now

If you don't like it

Why don’t you not read it. Better yet come up with your own opinions. Stop trying to be the voice of someone else’s daily.

lol!

now that’s really funny. Suggesting that I don’t have my own opinions? I’ll bet I’ve disagreed with EVERYONE on this blog. That doesn’t change that it’s Al’s blog and it’s his to moderate as he chooses. If you don’t like the rule, there are plenty of other opportunities for you out in the big, wide intarwebz.

Who

Said anything about the rule? I agree with the rule. What I don’t agree with is you. I will say it again, no one needs drewishdrewid going around BCB being their voice. No one needs you interpreting rules for that matter. Stand on your own merit, stop jumping on everyone elses and running with them.

why don't you

complain about it some moar? That’ll get you friends!

I stand on my own merit. When I agree with someone, I say so. When I disagree, I say so. And you, Kettle, are BLACK.

moar-more?

Stop the name calling right there.

what name calling

Kettle?

I brought up the talk about banning people.

And it was a valid question. I’m not running around saying ‘Ban the Infidels’, but I asked a legitimate question.

When we all signed up we agreed to respect people on the boards and celebrate the positives and negatives of this team and sport, and if you can’t be generally courteous, you’re outside of the bounds of the agreement.

That's why I've said I'm stopping

If he wants to direct comments/questions to me, I’ll respond. But I’ve given up trying to explain the rest.

if that

had been your first misguided fanpost on the subject I wouldn’t have started out so harshly. But you seem to be a broken record on the subject.

OK...we are battling a moving target here

Now it’s because of PREVIOUS posts I’ve made.

And here’s the thing you aren’t getting.

NO ONE disagrees that Zambrano has been a great pitcher. No one would EVER say that.

The question I raise and continue to raise is whether he is great enough to be worth the trouble he brings.

Many times during that thread, I said “Sell high” which would indicate that I believe Zambrano has a high value. (For now)

Your stats can tell us he has been on the DL only four times, but our eyes tell us he’s been on twice this year.

Moreover, the stories that come out tell us he has learned little about taking care of himself, which does not bode well for future injuries.

But whatever. You first deny you started harshly, then you say you were justified.

I’ve made my point. Zambrano is a great pitcher who is tipping over into not worth it.

Your stats can tell us he has been on the DL only four times, but our eyes tell us he’s been on twice this year.

Um, wouldn’t the stats tell us that too?

I’ve made my point. Zambrano is a great pitcher who is tipping over into not worth it.

And his argument is that Z is so incredibly valuable that this is a patently ridiculous thing to say.

I’ll also add that you can’t really “sell high” when someone is already priced at or around market value.

Yes you can.

If the person’s value is no greater than when their contract reflects market value, that is a “high.” Just because you won’t get a tremendous rake from it doesn’t mean it’s not the high water mark.

Flatley - August 10, 2009 reply

My point is

That you won’t get that player’s value back in terms of return (i.e. the players you get back), given that the acquiring team will have to pay for that player’s full value with dollars.

I’m confident the Cubs could trade Zambrano without eating money, but they wouldn’t get much back in terms of players. You’d basically be dumping him.

I agree with your flaming abilities.

If you were a superhero, you’d be El Fuego Worf.

I'd like to see that costume

It's a little big

But never let it be said I can’t mock myself

Couldn't care less.

Apparently the CUBS may have an issue with Zambrano's BP, too...

I'm aware of what was written.

What I’m saying is, instead of taking it as a personal attack, why not just shrug your shoulders, say “whatever”, and move to the next one.

If you think someone is trolling, or “comment-baiting”, continuing to respond only fosters the concept that it’s acceptable.

I am one of many who feels that Wins is not a great comment to rate pitchers on, but the quality of those wins is. It’s a stat that’s harder to put a lot of weight in, because as long as the other 8 guys (and sometimes the pitcher) score 11 runs, the pitcher can give up 10 and still win the game.

That’s why if you’re going to be a stat-head, there are much better categories. And there’s a lot to be said for intangibles. Roll all those up into a ball, add some peanuts and crackerjacks, and that’s what we call baseball, baby.

Outstanding.

Rec’d.

I've just finished reviewing that thread

and why Cal’s namecalling was unfortunate, you have certainly treated people just as poorly. If you get to stay, he gets to stay. You can’t have it both ways.

THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!

Oh, boy

Drew in the hizzy!

Now it’s a party!

Where I used to work

Every once in a while, an e-mail would accidentally go out to a distribution list of thousands of people.

Then, invariably, dozens of people would reply to all….I’d sit back and watch the fun.

I think we’ve just reached a similar moment.

Dude... we're just getting started

Wreckard, sue, that deadred guy and a few others haven’t been heard from.

And then we’ll get other people defending us (or just you)

And then there will be a response.

So long as it stays in this thread, I don’t see the harm. I do have to get some work done at some point.

Haha

Just chiming in because of this.

Now, back to work.

What am I , chopped liver ?

I did not even make the cut there ? Hey I STARTED the whole thing by posting that it appeared Z had injured ( or reinjured himself while taking BP but of course since I take the middle view ( love Z but think he does let his emotions damage his game) I just don’t rate a mention of insane posters ?

Correct.

Be more one sided next time, you’ll get more love.

If I may, allow me to edit this for you:

Be more one-sided next time, you’ll get more ~~love~~ attention.

That is a fair and reasonable action.

Maybe blame Piniella for the whole thing

;-)

Don't I do that already ?

I guess I took it for granted and assumed everyone knew that.

No, you have to do it all the time

Create a few fanposts.

Make sure the end is “words words words”

Sorry I have to go clean out the fridge

trim my toenails and other useful activities but just so there is no one out there who may not know this. Lou is a bad manager who can’t properly use either the bullpen or the bench and the Cubs need to win despite him not because of him.

Good enough ?

Words, words words ….

Ok for me.

Worf, please include Jessica in your future lists!

I didn't know where to put her

I have a big old “fer me — agin me” list.

If you hesitate too long

It will be a technical balk

You know, I was just thinking this board

needed a good technical balk discussion

That's Ok

You can put me on BOTH.

TWSS!

oh poop

no

I’m not getting into it with anyone. I think that it’s ironic that those who argue the most for objectivity can’t be objective about Z, but whatever. Bad news from my sister last night trumps whatever minor issues people have with each-other here.

I find neither Cal nor Worf to be in the right. I take just as much offense at name-calling at other posters as I do to name-calling at players.

I sincerely hope everything is ok with your sister. I mean that.

However,

I think that it’s ironic that those who argue the most for objectivity can’t be objective about Z, but whatever.

Get over yourself.

I don't need to get over myself

and you’re being deliberately combative. So if anyone brought the gasoline, it’s you.

I am being combative for responding to a thinly-veiled shot at me?

I’m sorry that you feel that way, Drew. And I’ll leave it at that.

Hope your sister is OK

We’ll sort out the rest later. Take care.

+1

Da Bard ring any bells?

Kansas25 - August 10, 2009 reply

You really missed my point, didn't you.

Yes, it appears so.

Thing is, I never took either side

I never refuted your statistics. I didn’t read the long posts you linked to because of your tone in the thread, but I never said the statistics weren’t legitimate.

In fact, at one point, I acknowledged that they were impressive.

Yet, you attacked me just as much as you’d attacked Worf. There really was no reason for it.

People should be able to disagree, even vehemently, without resorting to namecalling. You seem to think that someone else being irrational is justification for it – it’s not.

This place would be pretty boring if everyone had the exact same view on every topic. So would life. But treating others with civility isn’t that much to ask, is it?

again

I am not going to be “civil” to somebody who is open and proud and brash about ignoring actual facts in favor of their personal opinion and who further dismisses people who actually take time to use research to counter their rants. It’s ignorant and disrespectful plain and simple. Ignorance by itself isn’t a big deal but being proud of it drives me crazy.

If you're not going to be civil to someone simply expressing their opinion..

… then I’d have to ask you to refrain from being here.

like I said

if you want to express the opinion “Carlos Zambrano sucks and hurts the team” and other people take the time to show why that isn’t the case and you just dismiss it, without reading or considering the other evidence brought forth to the discussion then why are you posting in the first place?

Is that not disrespectful?

Maybe, but...

… calling people names and not being civil to them simply because you disagree, is something I don’t want here.

fair enough

but to me, Worf was equally uncivil yesterday. You don’t post an opinion on an open forum that exists for discussion and refuse to defend your position on anything other than your own thoughts.

And if you take a look at that thread it isn’t just me pointing that out, there seem to be alot of posters around there that are tired of his act.

As I said in the post...

… there was enough blame to go around from both “sides”.

The personal attacks and namecalling, however, WILL stop.

I'm still failing to see how

a poster with the opening line of “You win top idiot of the day” was posting something rational and well-reasoned.

I’m still failing to see how someone who resorts to “Internet dork” and “prick” within his first two responses — before a single stat is linked or posted — is presenting a coherent argument.

Al, I see what you’re doing. You’re trying to find the middle ground and move on.

But, please, DO NOT present this as an equal battle between rational and irrational.

As I said elsewhere in this thread...

… some people just don’t get it.

OK, who is that directed at?

Not you.

Thanks... It can be confusing

I do appreciate what you’re trying to do here. I know I don’t make your job easy sometimes.

Thanks.

Understood, and if you can try harder to be nice, your contributions are welcome.

Ah, Spandex

More of a priviledge, not a right.

I just noticed something else

Why does the Klingon have a Riker I.D. badge? That’s not going to fool anyone . . .

Maybe it IS Riker!

I suppose.

Kind of defeats the purpose of the disguise, then.

Or he killed Riker

and is using his badge as a trophy

I'll bet it was over Troi

well I might have been more

rational but your post included these gems

Basically, Zambrano is Brett Favre without the durability and without the wins

At least Favre stayed out on the field.

Which was easily proven to be false. Which you so proudly ignored. Again, I’m not the only one who is apparently tired of you, go look back through that thread.

You were the one doing the name calling, Cal

It’s a blog, for cripe’s sake. People are allowed to have opinions. If you can’t refute them without being irrattional, immature and rude, don’t expect to be taken seriously.

if Worf's

original post was rational, mature and polite then we have different definitions of those words Shanghai.

So I spurred you on to such rudeness?

I’m flattered I have such power.

Ok, since this is directed to me, I'll respond

Worf’s OP was an opinion.

In fact, there is a disclaimer at the bottom of every fanpost (emphasis mine):

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it’s a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

He did not attack you. He criticized Carlos Zambrano, and you took it personally. If Worf had created a fanpost attacking you, and Al somehow missed it, I would comment within that fanpost that it was inappropriate for him to do so.

However, I don’t see where any of his original was “disrespectful”. You like Zambrano, he doesn’t. Isn’t that his right?

Furthermore

You had absolutely no basis to attack me.

no no no

again, you need to read closer because I have said this several times already

The post itself was one thing. It was an ill thought out, easily disproven piece of writing.

The reaction and attitude of Worf and to a degree yourself to the people who took time and effort to show why it was so ill thought out is what I find disrespectful. You asked for evidence to show why Zambrano was a great pitcher. I go out and find it. That stuff doesn’t come from thin air, people took the time to do it and I took the time to track it down and attempt to explain it. You didn’t read it, Worf dismissed it. That IS rude, that IS disrespectful and I don’t regret getting upset over it.

Well, that's your right

I don’t think it’s worth getting as upset as you did, but that’s my opinion. I did glance at it.

I told you yesterday – to imply that I’m stupid, then send me to a website with a long, poorly cited posting and expect me to sift through it to prove YOUR case . . . you really don’t understand why that’s not going to work, do you?

i believe the exchange went

Me- I can prove Zambrano is a great pitcher

You- some comment along the lines of “time’s up”

Me- Links

You- I’m not gonna read it. I also doubt the “source”

I'll concede to being a smartass, because I am one

You gave a time frame and didn’t meet it. Yes, I was being a smartass.

I glanced at it and was longer than I was interested in reading after all the bluster and namecalling. I said I doubted the source because I didn’t see at that glance any reference to where the stats came from. I don’t see anything wrong with it.

further

I don’t doubt for a second you are smart enough to read that stuff and understand it. I know you are. The problem was you refused to do so after I took the time to present it. That bothers me

I can accept that.

It was already down a bad road, and I let that influence how seriously I took the links. I’ll admit to that.

Which, in a way, proves my point.

Anyone who posts an argument, statistical or otherwise, is MUCH more likely to get others to listen to it if they’re civil and don’t resort to namecalling.

That’s a pretty simple concept, I’d think.

Indeed.

Wait a minute

original post was rational, mature and polite then we have different definitions of those words Shanghai.

So I replied talking about the nature of posts, and you replied

The post itself was one thing. It was an ill thought out, easily disproven piece of writing.

My head now hurts.

The reaction and attitude of Worf and to a degree yourself to the people who took time and effort to show why it was so ill thought out is what I find disrespectful

Wow. Just, wow.

Not only was that a lot of bombast in one little sanctimonious paragraph, you completely ignored the fact that you attacked me when I didn’t do what you claim is justification for attacking someone – and then you used that same claim again for attacking, when . . . wait for it . . . I didn’t do what you are attacking me for.

Something about this...

…just caused my brain to shut down. :(

Smokey the Bear says:

Remember everybody, Badgers are fierce lil’ animals!

I retort, simply enough:

Qualitative data are types of facts, too. Just ask anybody in the fields of sociology, cultures, humanities, etc.

I despise Coors Field

I heard someone on ESPN Radio saying the Rockies have the biggest home-field advantage in the game. Not only do they play at altitude, and teams that come in struggle to adjust, but also because of their expansive outfield. Other teams come in and sometimes take bizarre routes to balls. Pitchers stuff doesn’t usually work the same was everywhere else, and no lead is safe.

I’ll be glad when the Cubs are done there tonight.

Asthetically, it's a nice park.

But I get your point.

That's a great point

I always think of the Twins when I think of awesome home field advantages, but Coors definitely ranks up there. I’d hate to be a breaking ball pitcher who’s turn in the rotation comes up there.

What's going on with the Twins' new stadium?

Are they ever getting one? Actually, that scares me more for the teams that play the Vikings. Talk about home field.

It opens in 2010.

They jammed the stadium into a parking lot that is barely big enough for a 7-11. Don’t forget: NO ROOF! The Twins are gonna be paying for no roof come August, September, and October every damn year.

Morneau had an interesting take on that

Chicago and Detroit don’t have much better April weather than the Twin Cities.

Yeah, they do.

They are both warmer temperatures and closer to the Great Lakes than the Twin Cities. I compared (on BCB) the weather of a few northern cities about 6 months ago and Minnesota was much cooler.

Damnit, now I have to find it...

“Hold, please, Shanghai”.

(elevator music)

While I'm waiting anxiously

I may have misquoted – perhaps he said they didn’t have great weather, either.

Here.

I’m from Minnesota.

Some of the worst storms in Minnesota have come in March and April. The weather in Minny is significantly colder; just pulling info from Wikipedia, the Twin Cities/Milwaukee/Chicago average temperatures in March is 32/43/46, and in April, 47/54/58. It’s ridiculous to build a $522,000,000+ stadium without a roof, that renders it effectively useless in 5/12 months of the year when weather is at or below freezing temperatures. I believe only Seattle and Toronto are more north than the Twin Cities (perhaps Boston or NYC?), but neither are nearly as cold as Minnesota.

This is going to be a big deal when bad weather hits and teams have to make up games with the Twins. I see a log-jam of games come September every few years.

Is the new stadium built in such a way...

… that they could retrofit a retractable roof on it sometime in the future?

I haven't read that anywhere in the Sota papers.

But I may be wrong.

From Wikipedia (emphasis mine)

The stadium will be a 40,000 seat ballpark in the Warehouse District north of Downtown Minneapolis between 5th and 7th Streets, near the Target Center. The architect is Populous (formerly HOK Sport) with Bruce Miller as principal lead. The firm is responsible for other stadiums such as Oriole Park at Camden Yards in Baltimore, PNC Park in Pittsburgh, and AT&T Park in San Francisco. Mortenson Construction of Minneapolis is the construction firm building the stadium. Target Field will bear resemblance to these projects. The Twins have opted for a “neutral” park which favors neither hitters nor pitchers; the current Metrodome with its white teflon ceiling is often said to be a “hitter’s park”, favoring the offense. Fan amenities are anticipated to be designed after those of the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul, the last major sports venue built in the area, which opened in 2000. Although earlier proposals called for the park to be built with a retractable roof, the current version of the park has neither a roof nor provisions to install one.

Well, they made a huge mistake, then.

They’ll draw OK next year, with the curiosity factor of a new park.

But then, if the Twins don’t contend every year, they are looking at very small crowds and multiple postponements in April and May, or playing in very cold conditions.

They may wind up having to play more day games than usual in April and May just so they’re not consistently playing with temps in the 30’s. The average low in Minneapolis doesn’t crack 40 degrees until May.

At least we don't have to go there.

How many muscle issues would we have then.

Not very often, anyway. And it will be summer by then.

Unless MLB changes the interleague format.

With our bats in cold weather?

A three-game series would be three perfect games for the Twins.

Not to mention half the roster gets a pulled hammy.

Eek!

Now... while you're there...

Tell us what the September weather is usually like.

Are they going to be playing quadruple-headers in July?

Sounds like something that should be broadcasted on The Ocho.

Good stuff

Maybe what he meant is that games will be played in cold weather, but not necessarily “inclement”?

Not sure.

I do agree, though – I thought it was a mistake not to have a roof from the beginning.

Don't forget April or May

I spent my toddler years in central Wisconsin. There is a picture of me wearing a winter coat to watch the fireworks on July 4.

I'd guesstimate that 5 of the last 7 Independence Day fireworks in the area have been below 80

Of course... it was Wasau

Maybe they were holding fireworks for some reasn on March 1.

Oh, I meant in this area

I live in Racine but usually go to Kenosha fireworks.

Wuss

Oh wait. Sorry!

Hey, blame my Mom

I was 3. I probably would have been just as happy to be naked

I hear ya

When I was in kindergarten, my mom made me wear an itchy blue turtleneck that I hated. And lo and behold I just happened to wear it on picture day. Now, everytime I see that picture, I’m reminded how much I hated that sweater.

klingon visuals

are disturbing…..

where’s my eyebleach

I seem to recall talk...

…that early in the season, if bad weather was still truly there, they could still play some of the early games at the dome?

That seems like it would be incredibly unfair to all other teams, but, it’d be better than what happened when games were getting postponed due to snow a couple years ago. Or would it?

Yes, it would be better

Because of the travel issues.

You know what doesn't worry me about the Vikings?

Sage Rosenfels.

I've known Sage for

many years and I hope he does well except when the Bears play against him.

sue369 - August 10, 2009 reply

Oh, and I forgot:

Xcel Center – New in 2000; often cited as the best/one of the best rinks in NHL
Target Field – New in 2010
TCF Stadium – New in 2009

Which leaves the Vikings and Timberwolves with crappers. And the Vikings are, one way or another, going to get a new stadium in the near future. The state of sports is good in Minnesota.

The Target Center isn't a crapper

It’s up to par with other arenas around the country. And the Metrodome is a great home field advantage for the Vikes, and it has actually turned a profit for the good people of MPLS.

Well, we can disagree.

I think the Metrodome is a big pile of shit. And the Target Center is 20 years old now. It’s fine, I guess, but maybe I meant to say “The Timberwolves are crappers”.

Gotcha

I like the Metrodome, but I may be blinded by my good memories of seeing every home game of the 1998 season there.

The Metrodome is a lousy place to see a baseball game.

Of course, I’m biased; I can’t stand the Twins. (Tigers fan.)

Blue Heron - August 10, 2009 reply

Twins fans

think the Metrodome is a lousy place to see a ballgame. You’re not biased.

Sounds like the taxpayers

in Minnesota are gong to be mighty poor in the years to come with the funding of all of those new facilities.

cowsarecool220 - August 10, 2009 reply

cue gene gene the dancing machine

For me, it's Marlins stadium, or Pro Player, or the Big Salsa

Or whatever the heck they call it.

I hate that place.

I think Minute Maid is a little off, too

That hill in CF may be a tribute, but it’s contrived – and some day someone’s going to get hurt.

I'm scared everytime there's a hit to straightaway center

It’s not often you see someone roll up hill, and it rarely results in something good.

Yep.

Although I have to give props to Bourn for catching one against the Cubs while falling down.

So, bottom line, are we all in agreement that Z needs to be traded?

DFA'd!

I think we definitely need to trade him to Baltimore for Brian Roberts.

He can be their DH.

Anyone hear of this Peavy guy?

I think he’d be a good fit

He sure would.

Any and all pitchers we can get on the DL.

Phil Rogers would like a word with you

NO! We're not doing Stonehenge tomorrow night!

Sigh... SOOOOO tired of this discussion on BCB

I’d rather read a discussion of people’s current physical ailments… anything…

My back hurts a little, itches a bit.

Also, I my neck is sore. I possibly slept with the pillow a little funny under it last night.

In addition, I tend to walk on the outside of my feet, so every once in a while my left foot gets really sore at the weirdest times, like when I’m driving and not even standing on it.

I've had tendonitis for months

Ibuprophen helps a lot, but I don’t want to take it too much.

It really gets bad during work outs.

I have no feet

Not really, but I figured we were in a one-up game here.

I suppose I could start a fanpost about my tendonitis

If nothing else, it would prompt someone to tell me that it really should be a fan shot.

here is some light reading for you.

In that case Ben....

Wonderful!

I’m gunna just go over to that post and get lost in it for a few hours. See you guys later tonight.

Cool. I just recommended Sackman's comment that started that

boo... the comments are Closed! OUTRAGE!!!

I wanted to add trenchfoot, angina, scabies, and coxsackie to the list.

Last!

:)

nope

looks like SWL got the honor

Well, the rec kinda counts, right?

Please?

since everyone supposedly likes you...

I guess so…

Yeah, where were these people when I was in college?

Obviously on BCB

That wasnt made yet, lrn2MartyMcFly

On Saturday

my friend and I watched all three BttF’s back to back to back so we could dissect the breakdown of their time travel theories. :/

And what did you conclude?

The problem is with how their trickle down theory works. We think.

I don’t know, the High Life didn’t help out, but sometimes things trickle down really slowly, like when he’s fading out of existence.

Our biggest concerns were with the naming of the ravine in pt. 3. If you really want to know my theories about it, I can enlighten you, but I don’t want to make the board even longer than that argument about who is and who is not acting like a dbag already is.

Actually, some parts of this thread have been pretty cordial and fun.

Making those parts longer isn’t a bad thing.

I didn’t think about the trickle-down. That does seem kind of like “sub-time”, doesn’t it? That time itself would need time to catch up to changes in the past.

I don’t have an issue with the ravine as much – Marty’s on a new timeline when he gets back. I suppose the “Eastwood” aspect of it would raise eyebrows later, but it could be viewed as by nothing more than a fun coincidence.

Well here's the thing.

Even after the first movie—-he doesn’t make things right. The 1985 at the end of the movie isn’t the 1985 at the beginning—so he’s out of place.

He’s effectively replaced whatever Marty lived the first 17 years of life in that 1985—but he doesn’t know what happened. I think it would lead to intense psychological breakdown when you realized you don’t know things about childhood. For example, he tells his parents to take it easy when he sets the living room rug on fire. If they take it easy, who knows what chain of events occurs that would make him a different person. He’d seem crazy to the people around him when he didn’t know what was going on. Doesn’t know what his brother’s job is? His sister dates boys? His world is upside down.

Swiss-cheese theory?

On Quantum Leap, Sam Beckett’s memory slowly fills back in. Because he and Al have a electrobiological link, Al remembers the way things were and the history after Sam changes it.

When Sam and Al changed places, Sam remembered after a while that he had changed his own life and was now married.

Maybe it takes Marty’s memory a while for the gaps to fill in after the changes are made once he returns to 1985.

But then...

eventually Marty must forget things about his trips, no? He knocks down the pine tree, making twin pines mall into lone pine mall. He’d have grown up in that timeline knowing it as lone pine, but the Marty that we follow in the movie knew it as twin pines. Does he at some point get overwritten?

But I think Al retains all the timelines

Which must be really confusing.

Also, here's the thing.

In 2, Biff takes the time machine back to 1955, and gives himself the almanac. That should wipe out the 2015 in the movie nearly immediately, as the appearance of Hill Valley in 1985 where Biff’s the king doesn’t reconcile to that future. But it doesn’t, because if it did, Doc and Marty would disappear from it as well.

So they’re obviously in some tertiary time-tunnel that isn’t immediately affected. What I’d like to know is, would they have begun to erase from existence like Marty and his family did in the first movie, if they had stayed there longer?

you don't replace yourselves in the timeline

every change is a new branch.

By that reasoning

there are two Martys at the end of BttF 1. Original 1985 Marty, and new and improved 1985 Marty.

That, without a doubt, will cause problems.

not at all

they’re in alternate universes. They can’t ever interact. Think 2009 Star Trek.

There's still replacement.

If there’s only one Marty at the end of the first movie, and that’s the Marty that we’ve been following the whole movie, where is the marty that was growing up in the new and improved McFly household?

a marty

that gets replaced by this Marty. It’s branches. The old timeline? No more Marty. I think.

You said you don't replace yourself

but then you said you replace yourself.

What I think you’re trying to say is that the new timeline gets the old marty, and the other marty vanishes?

yes.

when you move out of one branch and into a new one, there is no you in the old one anymore.

But the Marty in the new branch

the Marty who is born to a more assertive George McFly, he is replaced? Does he just vanish?

Stupid great movies make my head hurt.

I think so.

When Spock-Alpha crosses the black-hole to the alternate universe, there is no Spock who replaces him. When Vulcan-Beta is destroyed, and Spock-Beta’s mother is killed in the alternate universe, they both continue to exist in the “original” universe.

I'm willing to allow for nonreplacement in the original time frame.

I’m more concerned what happens to the one who starts in the new time frame.

Also, Spock-Alpha doesn’t return to new version of his current time frame, he stays back to rebuild Vulcan society.

I read that backwards

he stays to rebuild because he cannot go back.

Here's a weak attempt at an explanation

They get to the alternate 1985 from the future in part 2, so that has had “time” to catch up.

The 2015 is in the future from when the events were changed, so it hasn’t gotten there yet.

I know, that’s bad . .. I"m trying.

2015 is nigh six years away

And I want my my flying car, hoverboard and World Series Championship.

Tell me about it.

No gas?

Or how about in 3, where Marty takes a time machine back to 1885 but is stuck because it has no gas. The entire movie is about how to propel the car without gas, yet there is another time machine in an old mine with gas in the tank.

cliff - August 10, 2009 reply

That's an easy one, though

Marty’s already used that gas in 1955. That would create another paradox.

I'm not sure I buy that.

Gasoline was readily available in 1955.

Right, but the DeLorean went back to 1885

With the gas that Doc had stored in there.

They didn’t buy gas in 1955 before Marty went back to 1885 – but if they use the gas in 1885, then they DO need to buy it – but the Marty that would be using it would have already arrived without doing so.

To be fair

We don’t know for sure they didn’t buy gas. But even if Marty uses the gas out of the Delorean in 1955, when he time travels back to 1885, that DeLorean should still have the gas in it, because it hasn’t been used yet. It will be used in the future.

More importantly, there should still be a Delorean in 1885, because at one point, there are two there. (Doc’s, and Marty’s, which was Doc’s)

I thought they explained in the movie why they didn't use the 1885 DeLorean

I don’t remember.

But if they do use that one to get to 1985, for example, how does Marty get from 1955 to 1885? I think part of the issue is that too many trips damaged the fabric of the time-space continum, and Doc didn’t want to risk it.

Of course, then he goes and builds the train . . ..

I thought the issue was related to the time circuits

and 1955 Doc had to fix it to go back in time. You’d think I’d remember. I just watched it.

http://www.bttf.com/film_faq.htm

Here's a better answer

Q: In I885, when Marry tells Doc they’re out of gas; why don’t they just go to the Delgado Mine, dig up the DeLorean where Doc hid it and get the gas out of it?

A: There are two logical answers to this one… 1) The car mechanic’s answer: As anyone who has stored an automobile for a long period of time can tell you, you always drain all of the fluids out of the car before putting it into storage. Doc most certainly would have drained the gas out of the DeLorean if he was going to leave it hidden for 70 years. At the 1955 drive-in, Doc specifically says “I put gas in the tank” indicating that the DMC must have had an empty tank when they found it in the mine. 2) The time travel theory answer: Even if Doc had not drained the tank, he still would not have gone back into the mine for fear of creating a time paradox by accidentally damaging the DeLorean, the mine, or who knows what. After all, since Marty is now back in 1885, Doc’s plan obviously worked, and worked perfectly. But what if Doc were to go back into the mine and accidentally cause a cave-in that causes even more damage to the DeLorean? What happens to the future of that DeLorean, when it’s unearthed in 1955? And what might that do to Marty and the undamaged future DeLorean now in 1885? As an analogy, imagine a time traveler going back in time, finding himself as a child, and cutting off that child’s hand with a meat cleaver. What happens to the adult time-traveler’s hand? That would definitely risk a time paradox, and we know that Doc would never go out of his way to risk such a thing for fear of (in the worst case scenario) unraveling the fabric of the space-time continuum and destroying the entire universe.

Except

for when he gets the hots for a schoolteacher.

Haven't we all done stupid things over women?

I've done stupid things that were women...

does that count?

Yes. Yes it does.

Delorean Time Machine Rental

OH MY! I WANT... I WANT!

from this Blog: BTTFblog.com

but if he drained the care before storing...

wouldn’t he not put that fuel in some container? Could he have not kept that container somewhere besides the mine?

He could.

But try explaining gasoline to people from 1885.

Where's the gas?

Maybe Doc had the gas stored in a can but as he was walking back into town Zambano got thrown out of a game and thought the can was a Gatorade cooler and smashed it spilling all the gas. I think I remember that mentioned in the director’s commentary.

cliff - August 10, 2009 reply

how long is it

between putting the gas in teh container and when Marty shows up? Also, what’s he putting it IN? If it’s a wooden bucket, the gas will seep out.

I think Doc disposes of it, anyway

Because it is explosive. Trying to hide it for 70 years might not be advisable.

Doc kept the gas

I think Doc kept the gas for testing purposes, but Hendry traded it away to free up shelf space.

cliff - August 10, 2009 reply

Or gave it to the bullpen . . .

Is it possible?

I would like to go back in time and tell my younger self that bowl-cuts look stupid as hell.

I want to tell him that your t-shirts are supposed to fit.

And that the girl he had a crush on in High School will admit years later to reciprocating.

http://bttf.wikia.com/wiki/Paradox

For the Geeks in the house

Oh, I've been. Many times.

Sure, because I wasn't wasting enough time this morning.

Thanks, Ben . . . .

Already been there a ton

Really bummed I missed out on all the time travel/BTTF talk too…I mean, just look at my avatar for Pete’s sake.

Funny - I never did look at your avatar before

I didn’t realize what it was in the small view.

I love those movies entirely too much

but BTTF was the first movie I ever saw in a theater, and it’s still maybe my favorite movie of all time. That, or Shawshank.

Completely different genres, obviously

But both great.

I prefer BTTF, myself.

I like BCB

The Cubs and BTTF…. what more could you want?

I could use some lunch

agreed.

I’ll be back later.

In the future?

Yes.

Antonio’s is across the street. It doesn’t take long.

Same with Wendy's drive thru

Too much of that lately

Two things:

1. I am impressed by the collective wisdom in those comments. Good for you, BCB.

2. I want to cry—I miss Dreamy DeRo so much….

You do NOT want to know

San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - August 10, 2009 reply

Agreed. Z's not even pitching, so can't we give the argument about him a rest?

Blue Heron - August 10, 2009 reply

!!

BCB went a whole day without a new ~~-bulletin board announcement~~-fan post!

I'd like to see the stats

On oposing pitchers ejections and the regularity of such when facing a team who has the all around good guy, international baseball superstar, all star ambassador, triple crown flirt, Joe Buck’s Fabio and official catcher of the White house.. Albert Pujols.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;ylt=AjysF47Q9801u7l.Y5v_PoRvLYF?gid=290809123&prov=ap

Yes just a bit bitter. Cubs fan in Cards country my entire life.

It sure looked intentional

I would prefer to let the players handle it in most cases, but that could have gotten ugly.

Link Provided, Pop-Out, for your courtesy.

Well, they could just go Ozzie's way

…and flat out tell everyone that if his pitchers hit anyone else for the rest of the year, it was probably intentional. Jeez. I know what he’s trying to do, I just don’t know why he’s trying to do it.

You certainly

know where you stand with Ozzie.

He always seems to be

one step above general thuggery.

I'm married to a Cards fan

So I hear you

I was impressed, though, with Pujols playing paramedic the other day with that fan who fell on the field.

Of course, the bean-counters in St. Louis were probably horrified that he would accidentally hurt the guy further.

You mean his golden touch....

…doesn’t cure everyone’s ills instantaneously?

Wonderful!!

LOL

Hey, I'm bitter too

But I’d love to have him at 1B when Lee leaves.

You're not a proponent of the:

Switch Rami to first and bring up Vitters camp?

Me thinks Aramis Ramirez would be a horrible first baseman.

He has pulled leg, groin, and hammys before, and first includes waaaay too much stretching for him.

Yeah, I'm torn on it.

If Vitters is going to be what he’s supposed to be, that’s how I see them getting him on field.

However, I can’t wait to see what the Cardinals try to do with Pujols. Obviously, you’d want to resign him, right? He’s saying all the right things now, but there are plenty of teams in the league who’ll pony up the cash for him. We’ll see how much he loves St. Louis soon.

If I'm the Cardinals ownership

I do everything possible to retain him.

Here's a good bar debate we had two nights ago:

Who’s contract is more important to the sport?

LeBron’s?

or

Pujols’?

LeBron, no question

If MLB had marketed Pujols like they should have been doing all these years, then it would be different. But, they hitched their wagon to New York-Boston.

Much as I hate to admit it, St. Louis has been the premier NL franchise. It will survive Pujols and probably still sell out.

I’m not sure the Cavaliers would survive LeBron leaving. (No, they wouldn’t fold, but attendance would plummet)

The question was to the sport, though.

Not to the respective current team. They both should be contracts that help reshape how people are paid in each league.

I think he’s looking more for “which one is going to have the most impact league-wide.”

Good point on the marketing

Baseball really does a poor job of marketing its stars.

They’ve gotten better, but still not good. I seem to remember reading that D-Lee offered to help market it to inner cities and was turned down – that’s ridiculous if true.

Pujols in Boston or NY?

Yikes. The exposure would be incredible. Probably get his own network..

PBS!

I wouldn't be able to turn ESPN on...

EVER. Hey, waitaminnit, not a bad idea.

That's a great question.

That I want to answer, but I’m just not a big enough basketball fan. It’s fun to watch sometimes, but I can’t care about it the way i do football or baseball.

I don’t envy Pujols the task of landing what will be one of the biggest contracts ever (I’m assuming), and then having to keep up the ridiculous rate of production he has so far.

Plus... his shoulder

There will come a time when that thing is held together with Scotch tape.

Couple of high or wide throws and he’s out.

Agreed

No doubt I admire his abilities

When I was young

(sorry.. phone call) My dad through his employer would take us on the Cubs/Cards bus trip every summer. Three greyhounds full of fans from both sides. Crazy Crazy Crazy.

Let the players handle it

indeed.

RE: "namecalling on this site will stop"

Does that mean I can’t call Aaron Miles names?

SackMan - August 10, 2009 reply

I think we can ALL agree it's OK to do that

Since Aaron Miles doesn't post here...

… or at least, I don’t think he does…

yes, it’s OK.

If he does...

…he probably cries himself to sleep.

With $4 million as a pillow?

Actually

his pillow is filled with my broken hopes and dreams for a hyperproductive Second Baseman.

Broken hopes and dreams

As soft as swan’s down!

If Miles DOES post here

I wish he’d say so. I would compliment his bravery.

His bravery...

…for stepping onto baseball fields knowing that he probably shouldn’t be out there?

I gained a lot of respect for Danny Jackson . . .

for showing up at the 1992 Cub Convention

We need him to post here!

Like 500 comments a day… so he misses the team bus to the ballpark.

SackMan - August 10, 2009 reply

or get's injured from typing too much.

paging Carlos Zambrano... paging Carlos Zambrano...

How far can I take it?

Because I know a few really bad words in English and a lot in Spanish.

I'm always up for learning words in other languages

I'll start with:

“Pinche puto ratonero de cagada,” a very elegant way to call your typical small, squirrely Mexi-soccer player. Applies to the aforementioned.

[<Badger hurredly grabs a noteboook]

I think this is actually a problem with your policies around here Al.

Since Aaron Miles doesn’t post here…

… or at least, I don’t think he does…

yes, it’s OK.

A lot of what you’re lopping into “stats guys” like myself get so indignant about is the reprehensible personal attacks against players who aren’t around to defend themselves. At least when I point out that Worf is a worthless poster, he’s around to at least attempt to defend himself.

I think when someone like myself or CalCalendar (who is one of the best posters around here and it would result in serious brain drain if you banned him) sees a poster making a personal attack against a player we see it as fair game to turn the tables and make a personal attack against that poster.

In this regard, this season has made me extremely ashamed to be associated with Cubs fans. So many fans are obsessed with cutting certain players down to size (Bradley, Z) and putting others on a holy pedestal of hugs and puppies (Derosa) that objectivity goes out the window and it makes you wonder what they’re really cheering for. I last out at that mentality because I find it indefensibly stupid.

Your argument is flawed.

Which part?

Being unpaid defenders of highly compensated, total strangers who are unaware of the comments on this site?

Or, thinking that two “wrongs” make a right?

hmm...

two lefts make a u-turn, three lefts make a right.

We're here to discuss and debate our opinions related to the Cubs and baseball.

Sometimes my opinion of a player is based on his recent performance, say…the last 3 games. This is no different from the way most of us feel about a family member. If your spouse were to really just screw up consistently for 3 days you may tend to not have the best attitude toward them. You may even , gasp, speak ill of them around others without their knowledge.

Um . . . I was agreeing with you.

You shut up. I'm right!

You, sir, are no mambochicken.

holy jumping fucking shitballs

I haven’t posted here in months, and I’m still on the hive mind that is BCB. My last post was literally last October after that clusterfuck of a series against the Dodgers. This is hilarious to me. And sad.

Anyway, yes… here’s how it breaks down. Some of you (I’m looking at you, Worf, and countless other denizens of this enclave of idiocy) make stupid claims. You get called on it by one of a handful of intelligent, thoughtful commenters, who take your claim and decimate it with factual information. You stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it doesn’t exist, and whine about your right to your opinion.

No. Your opinion is fucking stupid and wrong. Not all opinions deserve respect or warrant anything other than outright contempt. Bashing the best, most-durable Cubs pitcher in years for no objective reason is ridiculous, and anyone who agrees with the bashing is a fucking moron. Those who sit back and ignore it, or those who think that everyone has a right to their opinion (and furthermore to EXPRESS this opinion on an open forum) are spineless, cowardly enablers.

CalCalendar and Wreckard are 100% right. And Worf, your posts are consistently some of the dumbest I have ever seen in my life. I ran into a few nuggets of wisdom from you when looking back at my old posts… this one, following the Dodgers series, was particularly succinct and stupid: “My vision of a best team actually plays like it in a five-game series.” Goddamn, you are an idiot.

I commend those few of you who seek to educate the ignorant masses, but I think you should give up. Most of the people that are on this board don’t want to learn; they would rather stick to their uninformed opinions, and no amount of statistical analysis or factual information will sway them. They are the young-earth creationists of the fucking baseball world. Idiots, the whole lot of them, and refuse to learn anything. Such overwhelming, zealous, committed stupidity is pretty amazing – on that, I will give them their just due.

In summation, most of you are unthinking, emotional, ignorant morons. How fitting that Al, a complete tool and wanker of the highest order, is your fearless leader. You make me ashamed to be a Cubs fan and ashamed to be a human being, because I have to be associated with you on some level. My 6-month-old niece is at the same intellectual level as all of you fools, and I’m guessing she’ll surpass you in short order. I thank Jeebus for that.

mambochicken23 - August 10, 2009 reply

The mambochicken reference is a running joke because MBDNIU thought three of us were you

As far as the rest of your post goes, you really need to find a better outlet for your anger.

I'm actually not angry at all.

I get a hearty laugh at all you dopes.

mambochicken23 - August 11, 2009 reply

Ok; good.

Consider it a tribute from your loyal dopes, then.

Wow, your wife is a lucky woman.

You have no idea. I usually screw up for WEEKS at a time.

Or, thinking that two "wrongs" make a right?

The level of respect you show others dictates the level of respect you deserve.

And In the end...

the love you take is equal to the love….you make.

So love the one you're with

♪♫ Her majesty's a pretty nice girl but she doesn't have a thing to say ♪♫

Umm... is that true?

according to Sir Paul it is.

Awesome.

redward - August 10, 2009 reply

What a beautiful world it would be if everyone always responded "in kind" to perceived slights

And it’s a funny statement coming from someone who insults someone else in most of his comments.

Sorry, but that is the world we live in.

People who act like jerks get treated like jerks.

And it’s a funny statement coming from someone who insults someone else in most of his comments.

I’m extremely respectful to the posters around here who deserve it.

The rule here is...

… to be respectful to everyone. If you can’t follow that really simple rule, go elsewhere.

If you don't think I follow that rule sufficiently then say so.

I’m not nearly as insulting as SB would make me sound.

I think, in general, you do follow that rule.

I’m just saying you can’t decide here who “deserves” or doesn’t.

I've got to disagree, Al

I know you can’t read every comment, but this has been a recurring theme. I think Wreckard is knowledgeable about baseball and the Cubs, but he has shown a pattern of being unable to disagree without being insulting. These two discussions are filled with examples of it.

You know, I read this and thought maybe I was being unfair.

Maybe I still am. But after I read it, I read the new comments in the “other thread”, and 2/3 of the comments that you added there after you posted this were insulting to the people that you responded to.

What I meant was, similar to what Beer Cub is saying, why can’t you disagree without telling the person that you agree with that they are stupid, nuts, ignorant, etc.?

You're not being unfair -

You’re being thin-skinned.

If you honestly find the statement “You people are nuts,” to be insulting or demeaning to the point where think it violates site policy, I’m really not sure what to tell you.

Wreckard - August 11, 2009 reply

Alright, I'll back off

This isn’t going anywhere, and maybe I’ve overreacted to things you’ve said in the past.

Whether I have or not, this is taking the fun out of it. When that happens, it’s not worth visiting the board, since we’re here to talk about a game in the first place.

I guess I don't live in the same world as you

What a miserable place yours must be.

I think your world more closely mirrors the one I live in.

The one where respect has to be earned, but you always start with some manners.

Sounds familiar.

If people in my world always responded to perceived slights in kind, they’d be pretty busy. Come to think of it, it’s unlikely that my siblings or I would have survived to adulthood if our parents thought that way.

My world is pretty awesome actually.

It’s filled with kind, respectful, intelligent people who don’t need to run around reminding people of their piety.

I agree wholly with this comment.

Personal attacks on players bother me at least as much as personal attacks on posters.

Blind accusations bother me almost as much,

like steroid talk and what not. I hate to keep trotting out my MMA fandom, but one of the websites/forums I go is heavily into avoiding/preventing fighter bashing. It helps to keep things intelligent and less hostile.

Ironic.

Oxymoron?

yeah, well

BLou likes to hit the trifecta. :P

It's not name calling....it's creative nomenclature.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO i don't want samardjiza to start wednesday

lexmarklover - August 10, 2009 reply

Whom do you want to start instead? They don't have many options, do they?

I’m actually for this; he might pleasantly surprise you.

Blue Heron - August 10, 2009 reply

trade 4 halliday

He's not going anywhere at present; Toronto wants too much for him.

Blue Heron - August 10, 2009 reply

trade scales miles heilman for him

Can't make much of a frankenplayer with that group, still need parts that can throw and hit.

throwing and hitting is overrated

IT'S HAPPENING????!!!!?!?

Finally read through that Z post

I never understood how people let baseball discussions turn into personal attacks. If someone doesnt agree with your stats, try a different stat, if nothing still, then you are not going to change their mind, get over it and move on to something else.

No kidding.

And it doesn’t matter how “right” you may think that you are, personal attacks or name calling will not help your “cause”, especially for those with such self righteous causes. People tend to stop listening…Oh wait, it can be proven to me by you that I am an idiot? Why didn’t you say so in the first place—let’s be friends now that I know that you are my superior…

OH MY GOD

   This is not the same blog that I joined a year ago. You know why? Because, last year there was much respect for the opinions of others. This year, I will probably get flamed for calling this a blog instead of whatever it is you all wanna call it. That will, in turn, lead to a completely irrelevent conversation full of all this grade-school type of arguing that is worse to read than a freaking obituary.
   I find it marginally entertaining that you, Al, say that the name calling WILL stop, yet up above “SantosWoodenLegs” saying something like “You sir, are an a**hole.” in response to someone else, yet he gets applause from his band of nitwits on here. Kinda funny to me.
   Like I posted earlier last week there is the type of mentality around here where if you arent with me you’re against me, and I’ve seen enough. Why can’t we all agree to talk about the Cubs? You know that’s what we all inevitably want, yet it rarely happens. Good Lord, I’m done. Peace out.
PS let the flaming begin.

I respect this opinion.

Oh, I like the opinion.

However, I chuckled to myself because that line is from one of my favorite movies of all time.

well

I don’t actually think that there was more respect last year. The user base was smaller, but there were a LOT of disrespectful comments.

What may have changed is the “I know more about baseball then you do” meme, but only in proportion.

Al could appoint game thread moderators who could shut people down quickly. It’s his choice to do so or to not.

It's hilarious.

I’ve been hearing “BCB was so much better last year!” for the last three years – i.e., since I joined.

You know what WAS better last year?

The Cubs.

Hey-O!

Yeah, I guess there's no getting around that.

But, c’mon, our boys can still split this series tonight and come home with a .500 road trip.

This.

is what we need to be discussing and I agree, lets launch a few outta Coors tonight.

I will launch back a few Coors Lights tonight.

Does that count?

I'd count it

considering I’ve launched way too many of those back in the past couple days. Yesterday sucked

Apparently, you could've drank 17 of those yesterday...

…and not gotten drunk.

I'm sure someone could come up with a theorum.

Something along the lines of Civility on BCB is directly proportional to the success of the Cubs.

A-squared + B-squared = C-squared

just caught up to this and feel the need to rec

Bad idea

yet he gets applause from his band of nitwits on here.

There are cliques. There are posters that are clearly well known. And they can get away with a lot more than the unknowns. Other posters won’t harp on them as much, and to an extent, neither will Al.

Respect is earned.

And frankly, posters that have been here for a long time or are well known are such because they respect others and in turn, receive the same treatment.

I agree

Those posters have gotten to know each other more. It’s just the fact SWL can call someone an asshole and get applause. But if that someone called SWL an asshole he’d get shouted down.

I’m not talking about quality of fanposts, or comments for discussions. I’m talking in the context of name-calling/trolling/flaming.

Note: SWL was used merely as an example.

Please.....

you obviously haven’t been paying attention around here.

Quorum Time!

I vote to ban SWL from BCB, and all will be fixed. Second?

I think you implicitly seconded the motion.

EXPELLIARMUS!

Statistics, Arguments, and Name-Calling

Here’s how I look at it:

It’s a lot easier to argue when you don’t use statistics. And I mean argue. Because you’re just trying to push your beliefs and assumptions on someone else rather than step back and find an objective truth.

And sure, you can disagree on which statistics are useful. But if you’re going to use any stats in your argument, you will need to be able to defend why your statistics are relevant and theirs aren’t. Otherwise you’re just cherry-picking data to fit your opinion.

Finally,

If you dismiss the evidence your opponent supplies without addressing it, you’ve lost the argument.

If you declare yourself the winner of the argument, you’ve lost the argument.

And if you resort to name-calling, no matter who started it, you’ve lost the argument.

redward - August 10, 2009 reply

So, with 53 games left

How many starts will Z get and what will his numbers be?

Itchy - August 10, 2009 reply

Pitching or hitting?

I just want the Cubs

to win tonight and the next night and the next night and so on and so on.
I hope Z comesback and goes 6-1 the rest of season.

Grockcubs - August 10, 2009 reply

with 2 PH home runs

ha jk jk

Just to start another argument

on the subject and because it’s actually something we should be talking about, anyone else (besides Len Kasper) notice that Milton Bradley’s OBP is up above .400 today?

That’s not to say he hasn’t been disappointing, his slugging percentage should be a lot higher than .402. But he’s been a productive ballplayer the past month.

I'll agree that this is great news.

For a team, however, that doesn’t score runs like it did last year, we really need great run and/or RBI production out of our corner outfielders, which we aren’t really getting. Adam Dunn does this, for instance.

If Milton continues to hit the way he has of late

Could you see a scenario in which he returns to the 5th spot in the order? If Lou was willing to slide Fukudome in there, I could see him moving a red-hot Milton there in the future.

Red Hot as in....getting on base via things other than walks and singles?

There's more to batting than BB & 1B?

Well if he's in the two hole consistently

he could learn a solid sac bunt.

He bunted the other day just fine.

Bradley's never been

a big HR guy. His numbers last season in Texas were mostly a ballpark creation.

But he should be hitting more doubles.

Wrigley should be helping him maintain that facade then.

Wrigley

hasn’t been a great HR park since the 1980s.

He was signed for his ability to get on base and bleed pitch counts

His Slg% was pedestrian away from Arlington last year, people shouldn’t have been expecting huge power numbers.

Ozzie Montana - August 10, 2009 reply

if they wanted that they would have put him in the leadoff/2hole a long time ago

Yeah...

…I seem to recall him being sold to us as our new left-handed power bat.

Power as in a lot of doubles, yeah he should be hitting more 2Bs

He wasn’t going to translate into a HR hitter, but I think considering how much crap Cubs fans and the media gave him from the moment he was signed, Bradley has been well worth his contract.

Ozzie Montana - August 10, 2009 reply

But we're giving him crap....

…because of how he was sold to us. I wouldn’t say that makes him well worth his contract. Shave a few million or a year off it, and I’m much, much happier with his contract.

Then you're getting angry at the wrong guy

Ozzie Montana - August 10, 2009 reply

Only partially

Yes, I’m upset that Hendry signed the deal, but I’m also upset that until recently, Bradley was not playing at his potential.

He seems to have taken strides towards correcting this, and as such, I’m not hating on him.

You must be angry with many Cubs then

Not many are worth the large contracts.

"worth"

is a highly subjective judgment anyway.

Exactly, a player is "worth"

whatever a team is willing to pay them.

cowsarecool220 - August 10, 2009 reply

If they play within a general level

I’m ok with it. I’m not going to get mad at the player for accepting all the money someone’s willing to give him, but if they’re just terrible, then yes, I’m angry about it.

My problem is that teams don’t recognize sunk cost. So you owe your left fielder who can’t lay off the slider a bajillion dollars. Is there someone who can hit instead? Yes? THEN PLAY HIM.

I don’t think most fans will care that someone who is owed a bunch of money sat instead of playing if they win a world series. Managements across all of the pro sports always insist on playing the paid, and it’s often to the detriment of their team.

I was just pointing out that we have a few that don't earn their contracts.

At least with Bradley he acknowledged that he wasn’t “earning” his keep when he struggled earlier this year. I like that honesty, you don’t see it too often. More often players like to play for a contract and take the money and run.

I agree with your sentiment about managers playing someone because of the hefty contracts. I’d like to see more playing of the hot hand.

Especially...

…in the playoffs. Once you get there, you’ve gotta do anything and everything. And that’s something i’ve definitely seen missing the last two Octobers.

I was thinking more along the lines of his double yesterday.

If those become more plentiful and Milton begins driving the ball, does Lou dare to put him in RBI situations and risk him pressing?

I still want Fukudome back in the leadoff spot. What do others think?

Blue Heron - August 10, 2009 reply

I like Dome at leadoff...

…and wish Lou would leave him there. And another great thing about Bradley hitting second is that he’s a switch hitter, so if an opposing manager brings in a LH reliever later in the game, he can just turn around and bat righty. Thus, there would never be two lefties in a row at the top of the lineup.

And Bradley has some speed on the basepaths making him even better

suited for a top of the order role.

And he sees a sh*tload of pitches

hed probably lose a leg if he tried to steal a base though

Not thinking stealing, but occasionally beating the throw on a sacrifice

and beating out that play who cannot be named that leads to multiple outs.

I like Dome leadoff with Bradley back in the 5 spot,

That was working pretty good

Dome leading off, Bradley batting 2nd, Theriot 8th.

That works for me.

this.

put Soto or Fontenot 5th.

Where do you put Miles?

Out to pasture.

on a bus

he can be

Lou’s special stool.

on a shelf in a closet

in the basement so he doesn’t tarnish his reputation anymore

And when he turns 11, he can go to wizarding school.

time

for the typical pottergasm I take it?

boredumb does that to you.

expelliarimus!

Miles....away

toronto

cuz we traded him for aaron hill

fontenot batting 5th?

ugh

it's not my favorite

Never mind. Bat Baker 5th, and Soto 5th on days Fonty is in, have Fonty bat 7th.

What about Soriano?

I think I’d go:

Dome
Bradley
DLee
Aramis (assuming he’s not DL’d again for shoulder)
Soriano
Fontenot/Baker
Soto
Theriot
Pitcher

I'd rather

have someone get on base before Soriano , but after Rami clears them.

Curious,

What is your dream lineup right now, Drew?

lemme guess

Big Z
Big Z
Big Z
Big Z
Big Z
Big Z
Big Z
Theriot
Big Z

PV
PV
PV
PV
PV
PV
PV
Theriot
PV

but seriously

Dome
Bradley
Lee
Rami
Soto
Sori
Fonty/Baker
Theriot

something like that. But I recognize that lineup differences aren’t great.

that's actually a good lineup....

but it needs more Roberts

and more

LIND

oh, well.

In a perfect world, Lind not only bats every spot and plays every position, he also calls the game as umpire AND color man.

Seams like consensus around here,

I guess I’m away from the herd on this one, but I don’t mind that.

there's nothing wrong with bradley

in the 5 spot, gets someone on base for Soriano…. but I like seeing bradley at 2 because it seems to me that he sees a lot of pitches, thereby giving Dome a feel for the pitcher’s rhythm and to give the batters behind him a look at more pitches.

and hes actually hitting in the 2 hole

He was hitting before that.

not really...he was WALKING....

Batting 5th: 121 PA 20H 21BB

no not really

When you look at numbers, sure.

But on this one, I am on Lou’s side, I think you need a LH to break up the RHs. And it stretches out the lineup too, instead of just being good in certain sections in the lineup. It woud help if we can also put some runs on the board from lower lineup too.

I guess what I am trying to say is

6 of one, a half dozen of the other.

Are you one of the lineup means little then?

If you mean LRLR stuff,

yeah, I myself think that you construct it to your team’s abilities…. Look at Harvey’s Wallbangers (late 70 early 80 Brewers) or the Cardinals of the mid 80’s they constructed their lineups to their teams abilities.

Ideally, imo you put someone who gets on base first, then someone who sees a lot of pitches next, then your best hitters and by that I guess ISO hitters in the 3-4-5 spots.

Bradley or Dome should leadoff the rest of the year

Okay...

as long as you still want Bradley in the lineup at all. :)

It would be stupid to not want him in the lineup...

to get on base in front of Lee, RamFox, & Soriano.

okay, there are some on this site that think

that it would be the same to pick the lineup out of the hat and it would be the same. I was just wondering if you were one of them. But you are on paper, for the textbook of the positions in the lineup.

That’s where my I veer away as stated. Especially with better pitchers they can go from righty to righty and get into a groove facing the same kind of hitters. Plus, it is not that far from reality that Bradley can hit in one of the RBI positions of the lineup.(just not so far this year.)

ah

but in a perfect world…. (I know this isn’t though) even if you have multiple RH hitters in a row, they shouldn’t be susceptible to the same weaknesses (I.E. breaking balls in the dirt, fastballs up and in) so it should be harder for a pitcher to get into a groove.

and if you do have the same type of hitter

in a row…. imo that’s just stupid lineup management.

Maybe thats our problem then

we have righties with the same troublespots.

But if you change his approach, even a little, doesn’t that mean more likelihood of making a mistake?

yes and no....

because if you have a RH who is weak on low and away breaking pitches followed by a LH who can’t pull the trigger on low and in breaking pitches, you are still setting up the pitcher with the ability to get into a groove as you will

I disagree

the pitcher must protect against a power zone. If he is comfortable with the ball going away from a RH, he must be careful with the ball going toward a LH.

And it does change the pitchers sight line.

We’re getting at some theoretical stuff here.

like I said...

six of one, a half dozen of the other.

go Cubs

but different hitters

can have a different power zone. For instance, in the above example I gave, the RHB’s power zone would be inside half of the plate, and the LHB’s power zone would be the outer half.

tootle - August 11, 2009 reply

I know I'm in the minority but

I agree with Lou that you need a LH to break up the righties in the middle. Since Dome is doing good leadoff, that leaves Bradley.

you could have bradders lead off theriot bat second and fukman bat 5th

SMACK

palm to face

?

sorry....

I’m just not a fan of theriot batting second…. it seems he doesn’t see too many pitches per at bat.

Nah, I would prefer Dome in leadoff

at least Bradley had a history of being a producer.

Theriot would probably be the bset #8 hitter in the league

nah....

that would be Zambrano

I'm almost afraid to say this out loud (not that I am anyway)...

…but Milton’s been remarkably quiet, productive and (gulp) healthy.

Quiet?

I guess my dislike for his persona blinds me, but his rage is still very evident and snapped bats twice this last weekend.

Otherwise, no complaints. Carry on.

The bat snapping

is Milton Bradley’s “quiet voice.” :-)

Oh right...forgot about that.

Well, at least that was an inanimate object (and not an umpire).

if he wanted to hurt yesterdays 2b ump

id have no problem with that

that was an egregious call

how could he call that an out at second?

That's a great question.

I particularly liked how after Chris Guccione ejected Lou and turned to walk away, he wiped some spittle from his cheek where a yelling Piniella had sprayed him.

It was lazy umpiring

Assuming the play was going to be made and not bothering to confirm that it was.

terrible call.

willie mays hayes' gloves - August 10, 2009 reply

That call was an embarassent to umpiring. Sportcenter has been

running it all day and the league must be cringing every time it plays. I am not an advocate for instant replay on these types of plays, but this type of play doesn’t help the league in it’s attempt to beat back call for replay. Just call it right and this type of controversy won’t come up. A rookie league umpire could have gotten that call right and the fact that it was in a high profile game makes it that much worse.

Speak softly and break a big stick

I meant "quiet" more as in...

…staying out of the faces of umpires/managers/coaches/the media. Doesn’t seem like he’s gotten much attention lately aside from the batting second thing, which, thankfully, is a great idea and directly related to baseball.

Ah.

that's him

getting mad at himself. Lots of players express anger when they strike out.

Here's probably a dumb question,

With dome being dropped, who’s been hitting first (haven’t seen the last couple games)

Theriot hit leadoff yesterday.

Yes. He's at least helping the team and the manager gets a nod for hitting him 2nd.

I’d love to see MB and Dome hitting 2 and 1 the remainder of the season.

Perhaps Lou’s personal instruction has helped MB feel better about being a Cub? After that one article where he discussed how uncomfortable he was here and the references to Derosa being so popular, it left me with the impression that MB is not cut out for the Chicago market, but instead of disappearing, he’s really stuck with it and been productive. I hope that it continues.

I'd like to see that, too

But that doesn’t break up the LH-RH in the lineup. There is a little merit to it – makes it harder to match up relievers.

If Fontenot ever started to hit, maybe he could bat 6th against RHP:
Dome
MB
Lee
Ramirez
Fontenot
Soriano
Soto
Theriot

On paper that's looks pretty good.

I want to apologize for inciting such a problem before lunch there

I enjoy this site, and having a new born, I see so many fewer Cubs games then I ever did before, that’s why I love to come here and hear about what is happening with the team. I have tried twice to call for some control on all sides of these arguments, from the inciters like Blou (sorry to use your name bud), to those who get all over them, and mock them, to Al who posts comments about people being banned, or asked to leave. This place is not very welcoming, and that’s unfortunate.

Ok. Duly noted.

I’d suggest just not talking about it, at this point. You’ll notice the rest of the thread started talking about baseball and Back to the Future, for the most part.

The Lost theory of time travel is far better.

Don't watch it.

Couldn’t get into it when it first started, then stopped caring. Everyone always tells me it’s great.

Got kind of weird in the middle

But then they set “we are ending at this time” so they couldn’t be quite so weird in their plots since they HAD to tie it all up at a given date, which made it far more enjoyable.

Blasphemy

Or rather, irrelevant, since the Lost theory of time travel borrows from the BTTF theory of time travel.

Are you saying the Island is a DeLorean?

Flatley - August 10, 2009 reply

If you're going to build an island out of a car,

Do it with style.

I have looked into the eye of the Island...

…and I am freaked the fuck out.

(PS: Check out the Other in the background! Always spying, those Others.)

Flatley - August 10, 2009 reply

I don't see it.

BTTF says you can change things in the future by doing things in the past (or future).

Lost says anything that happened in the past already happened and whatever you do when you time travel is irrelevant. It all already happened.

all of this has happened before

and all of it will happen again?

JACK IS A CYLON!

You're really tying it all together here.

just remember. Caprica Six shot JR!

days of future passed

I'd mildly disagree that this place isn't welcoming.

I think a lot depends on:

How one presents oneself,
How patient one is willing to be (you’re not going to get a lot of attention right away unless you’re either ridiculously prolific or a borderline troll – or a full-blown one), and
How one reacts to attention once he or she gets it (hint: admitting you’re wrong once in a while doesn’t hurt).

Generally, reasonable folks with some semblance of a sense of humor do pretty well. Having said all that, I had a newborn once, too, so I don’t blame you for being oversensitive. Sleep deprivation can do that to you.

I think that's a good way to put it

Including only mildly disagreeing. Your points are all good, though.

willie mays hayes' gloves - August 10, 2009 reply

So which catagory are you, reasonable or sense of humor?

Yes.

Ha. Figures daver would be the first poster

to discuss blowin trolls. Oh, wait… I may have read that wrong.

Blowin' Trolls - that's the name of my all-brass jazz quintet.

We’ll be at the Green Dolphin on Friday.

Man, of course Mike63 rubs people the wrong way, but I think overall he's been a contributor and on wat his 3rd or 4th post banning screen name?

Oh, and welcome...I have a 9 month old at home--enjoy the little one--they are a hoot!

at least part of the issue

is that there are some peopel who have been on this forum for years. People have a history with one-another. BLOU has a BIG history with people – he’s been banned multiple times, but he always comes back.

When you’ve got a history with someone, you’re more likely to give them a pass then someone who is knew. If I say “trade Zambrano for Carlos Lee” most people will know I’m joking (more or less). They have context to put my statement in.

But with the big influx of posters from Yahoo, we have a lot of new members who (frankly) don’t type english very well, and have no context for us to place their statements in. (ERIC LIND, GETITDUNLOU!)

Finally, and I think it’s valid to point this out — you’re calling Al out on his own blog. That’s gonna get a lot of people who consider Al a friend in your face.

This place has it’s own culture and feel, just like any other highly traffic blog. It’s always good to try to figure out how you’re going to fit in before having that fit be defined for you.

Drew, you're an idiot...Carlos Lee can't pitch.

But I was going to put

Miles in the rotation!

are you secretly trying to blow out his elbow?

no, we'd trade him to the Reds if that were the plan.

too bad

they already dumped Patterson, we coulda had him back for a song!

♫Oh, Corey, you're so fine♪

♫Lot’s of K’s in your stat line! Hey, Corey!♪

very nice

The Isley Brothers had it right the first time...

♫ No-no, no, no, no, no-no-no, no, no-no, no, no-no
Na-no, no, na-no, no-no, na-no, no-no, no, no-no, no ♫

Exactly.

If you join up and immedately post either a negative/rant Fanpost or a Fanpost rehashing a tired, old topic, you’re probably not going to get a very positive reception – and I’m sure BCB seems like a really unfriendly place. By the same token, if you’re new and you immediately start flouting the rules, well, Al’s probably not going to seem like a very friendly guy.

Unwelcoming? I disagree.

I just think it depends on who you are, and how you are as a person. I came on here awhile ago, I make my posts, I joke around a lot, I try to stay positive, I point out idocy sometimes, go back to joking around, etc. I don’t treat this like the wild west where you can do or say whatever you want, and I’m not quick to insult anyone either. I’m also not going to get butt hurt over anything said to me by someone else on the interwebz, so with that going in, I get along with most just fine, and I feel people were pretty welcoming to me.

Even if you are a Golden Domer!

I keed.

Hey man

10-2 or bust this year…I’m personally hoping for bust. Less than a month until the first tailgate too!

Any news on our teams getting a home and home series set up?

I’d love to see it.

No clue

I’d like to see it though, just to have a reason to make the trip based on what I’ve heard about the University of Wisconsin. By the time it happens though, I’ll probably be a dad, and my tailgating days may be behind me.

Craig - going to or tailgating any games this year?

Probably every home game until it gets really cold

or unless we get endless downpours like the game against MI last year. I had to leave at the half because we had some issues with a little bit of water in my basement earlier in the day, and I didn’t want that happening again, so I went home to mitigate or prevent any damage.

So you'll be there for the annual loss to BC?

I think I’ll be making that trip with my friends from college – it’s about the only time they make it out from Boston and New York.

You know it.

F’n BC…For every good year ND has, they’re right there to spoil it. The worst was mid 90s when they were looking like a dominating team, even beating FSU, and then they go and get beat by BC.

BC will be down this year, I think, so who knows.

We always tend to show up for that game, owing to the fact that BC wants to be ND’s rival and the perception is that ND is now ducking us on the schedule.

Back in the 90’s, I hated BC, solely because of David Gordon. Then I went there for school and things changed. But going back to ND is always a good time, regardless of the game.

It's a great place to see a game

Someday, maybe the student section will see one . . .

They really need to become a stronger team

before they venture out any further. It would be nice to see some different teams thrown in there, like how UNC was worked in a couple years ago.

I think the state of the team is why they are even considering UW now, but I could be wrong

If you’re a top 5, why play the Badgers right now? Little to gain and a lot to lose.

The schedules are made so far in advance though

and there’s no telling how a team is going to be 3 or 4 years from now. People (residents from South Bend mostly :)) figured ND would have a top 10 football team based on recruits, but they’re far from it. It’s nice to be surprised by other things though, like how well the basketball and hockey teams have performed.

Right re: team strength

But ND usually is up there. Guess is that they wanted a lot of money to do a series with Bucky.

Wisconsin is going to totally suck at sports this year.

Bret Bielema has to be concerned about losing his job, and Bo Ryan lost A LOT of veteran staff.

Agreed, unfortunately

Alvarez preaches patience, but another year like last year, and I have to think he’ll be thinking about going back to the sidelines.

Agree w/ Craig. I was new here early summer.

Still waiting for my welcome basket. I thought at first it was a close community that might be difficult to crack into. But found people quite open to new posters. Immediately willing to share a joke, thought, or disagreement. Never felt unwelcome.

Mmm, that looks good thanks, Badger!!

Actually, if you hadn't asked for a basket, I probably would have brought

Uhh, changed my mind. Me want the Johnnie. I'll share. But not with BLou.

Butter in a welcome basket?

What kind of party is this?

El Borto - August 10, 2009 reply

Well, there IS bread . . .

He's just jealous he didn't get a welcome basket.

Don’t forget the raspberry jam, as well!

Balance is key.

This.

oooooohm....

Oh, mister, let it go already!

Blue Heron - August 10, 2009 reply

You realize that you said that 90 minutes after the comment you replied to, right?

I think that it’s pretty much been fleshed out already.

Off topic,

But as a Cubs fan, is it wrong that I love watching the Yankees kick the crap out of the Red Sox?

I would say yes.

In a perfect world, they’d both tie, and some other team would have more wins in the column.

Yes

Why would a Cub fan EVER root for the Yankees ? Most all Cub fans were Red Sox fans till 2004 when many got bitter. I for
one am still a Red Sox fan and proud of it. I live in NYC and I loath the Yankees and the Mets.

Gotta say I respect the Yankees far more than I do the Red Sox.

Call me crazy, but the Red Sox are just way to freaking full of themselves. Not that the Yankees aren’t, but I don’t know, something about them.

How are the Red Sox full of themselves?

Trust me if you lived in New York

The Yankees, the Yankee fans and the Yankee management is TOTALLY full of themselves. The Red Sox and certainly their fans
often appear to be smug but I find them to be angst ridden even after two WS championships and I can still sympathize with them.

Agreed, BIG-TIME.

Or, you could, you know, not care about either team?

The Red Sox are the Yankees but they think they’re cooler because they had a “curse” they broke.

Maybe that's it

The Red Sox just think of themselves as so hip and cool. The yanks may be smug, but they also have that air of professionalism about them.

I live in Toronto, so I’m inundated (spellcheck?) with the AL East.

My opinion is that's precisely it.

The Yankess have always been the Yankees.

The Red Sox were identical to the Yankees but trendy because of their “curse.”

The bubble has burst on the trendiness of rooting for the Red Sox.

I respect them both

I’m just a little jealous of the Red Sox for winning two WS in the last few years. I really feel that if the Cubs could have won in ‘03, they could be where the Red Sox are. Might be silly, but that’s how I feel

I don't think it's silly

I think once you get over the proverbial hump, success builds on itself.

Did anybody read about the Red Sox with their Pink Hat dilema?

It was quite funny, I was discussing that at lunch with someone, if the Cubs won a world series, so many fans would come out of the woodworks. Personally, I sided that I would love it. Because in Canada you don’t get a lot of people who outwardly cheer for the Cubs, people seem to respect them more than in the states, but they don’t cheer for them. I’d love to have some more Canadians to talk to.

Not familiar. Do you have a link?

The Cubs have their own Pink Hat Dilemma.

is that the windspeed in the upper right?

We've had dilemmas with several people/posters behind home plate this year.

It’s not just that one. I seem to remember one in Washington, Cincinnati, and a few games earlier in the Colorado series.

That freakin' Rockies mascot is REALLY pissing me off.

Whatever you do Daver...

don’t say anything disparaging about him…he’s not here to defend himself.

I wanna go all Ace Ventura on his ass.

I am surprised that the team allows that dancing behind the plate

It's ridiculous.

The thing was literally shaking its ass at Kevin Gregg the other night.

I saw that

And it reminded me of the Pirate parrott last year. I didn’t actually see that game because I was in China, but I remember the game thread.

What is he again, a dinosaur?

I think so, yeah.

think so

at the reds game last wednesday he had a cardboard sign that said
“1908
20??” and then on tuesday they had a question that asked who were the only teams since 1950 to not play in the world series. i guess they forgot they were tied with pittsburgh at the time

I grew up

a Yankees fan.

I am glad to see you grew out of it.

heh

While I have an extreme fondness for the guys I grew up watching on the field, I lost track of the yankees when I went to Ohio for college. When I looked again, they were full of faceless guys. But I revere Thurmon Munson, Catfish Hunter, Reggie Jackson, Lou Piniella, Bucky Dent and Greg Nettles just as much as I revere Santo, Fergie, Banks, Ryno, Maddux, etc.

Only if you live in Red Sox country, is it good to think that.

If you're not a Yankees fan, you're supposed to hate them.

Wasn’t that in the contract you signed when you became a baseball fan? ;)

Blue Heron - August 10, 2009 reply

As for why I cheer for other teams

As a Cubs fan don’t you have to give yourself something to cheer about? ba dum dum

My hope is that

the two teams with higher payrolls than ours fail more miserably than we do, so that our failures look less bad by comparison.

It's good to root for an AL team, too.

That way, you have a chance to root for a winning team now and then.

Blue Heron - August 10, 2009 reply

Never mind higher payrolls

I wish we had the minor leagues they have. My understanding is that the Cubs have like the second or third fewest scouts in baseball, is that still true? pathetic.

That fanpost was not for the faint of heart.

I saw it, but didn’t get into it very much.

Off-topic:

If anyone is going to the games in California in a few weeks, I just made a FanPost about it.

Link

It’s my first-ever FanPost or FanShot here.

I was going to make a comment about my overall feel to this...

I’ve never done drugs, but this reads like an acid trip while listening to Mogwai…I’m just glad things have lightened up.

Yes, the argument seems to have spilled over to here.

Again, I’m avoiding it as much as possible.

Same.

I haven’t even bothered to look at the other thread.

jerry morales rules - August 10, 2009 reply

I'm sorry

but that Fanpost was totally lame as far as name calling and BCB standards. There have been way better ones than that and I’m not going to get into it other than to invoke the name Gaius Marius.

?