A little over a year ago -- on July 24, 2008, just before last year's trading deadline -- the Pittsburgh Pirates began a trading spree that I think is nearly unprecedented in recent baseball history.
Today, August 14, 2009, as the Pirates come to Wrigley Field for a three-game series, know how many players are left from the 25-man roster on 7/24/2008?
Three. Ryan Doumit, Paul Maholm and Zach Duke. (Four, if you count Matt Capps, who was on the DL on 7/24/2008). All the rest are gone. Some of the players they have acquired or promoted are decent players; Andrew McCutchen is a real talent. Lastings Milledge has some talent, if he could ever actually put a full season together. Some of the pitchers have good arms. But basically, it's a Triple-A visiting team coming to Wrigley Field this weekend. The Cubs took two of three in two series earlier this year from the Pirates, one at Wrigley and one at PNC; this time, they both need to sweep, and should sweep. Aramis Ramirez returns today; that should help.
Courtesy of John Lewis' research on a SABR mailing list to which I subscribe, here's where the departed Pirates went:
Lewis also notes that:LF Jason Bay traded to Red Sox 2008 CF Nate McLouth traded to Braves 2009 RF Xavier Nady traded to Yankees 2008 OF Jason Michaels free agency 2008 1B Adam LaRoche traded to Red Sox 2009 2B Freddy Sanchez traded to Giants 2009 3B Jose Bautista traded to Blue Jays 2008 SS Jack Wilson traded to Mariners 2009 1B-3B Doug Mientkiewicz free agency 2008 2B-SS Luis Rivas free agency 2008 INF Chris Gomez free agency 2008 C Raul Chavez free agency 2008 P John Van Benschoten free agency 2008 P Franquelis Osoria free agency 2008 P Damaso Marte traded to Yankees 2008 P John Grabow traded to Cubs 2009 P Sean Burnett traded to Nationals 2009 P Ian Snell traded to Mariners 2009 P T.J. Beam on waivers to Blue Jays 2009 P Denny Bautista to AAA Indianapolis P Yoslan Herrera to AA Altoona P Tyler Yates on disabled list
The Pirates' record was 48-54 (.471) on July 24, 2008. Since then, it is 64-103 (.383).

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Charlie Morton will be making his second career start against the Cubs. He started a game for the Braves against the Cubs a year and a day ago on August 13, 2008. He didn't make it out of the third inning. The big blow off him was a home run by Jim Edmonds -- remember him? Geovany Soto hit a two-run double off Morton.
Randy Wells started and defeated the Pirates on July 1 in Pittsburgh, but the Pirates have remade their team since then. Three of the starting eight that day aren't on the Pirates any more.
The Cubs are on WGN today -- that's the only TV; there is no Pirates telecast. For other games today see the MLB.com Mediacenter.
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Please visit our SB Nation Pirates site Bucs Dugout.
Overflow comment threads will post today at 2:15 pm, 3:15 pm and 4 pm CDT.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
0 recs | 448 comments
Charlie Morton is Roy Oswalt?
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
I was gonna say the same thing when I opened the thread
tootle - August 14, 2009
Oh great, Oswalt always seems to dominate us!
cubswynn - August 14, 2009
I swear Morton is the Bleacher Beer Tossing Guy....
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
haha +1
ambrosiadreams - August 14, 2009
beer ball
damn another strike.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Hopefully he's not as accurate as the tosser.
Tosser is officially that douche’s nickname in my book. It’s a play on words…
cubswynn - August 14, 2009
geez
is that even punny?
TDubb - August 14, 2009
They traded a few other items as well
http://424tales.blogspot.com/2009/07/pirates-trade-stargell-and-wagner-to.html
http://www.theheckler.com/news/templates/?a=3040
Tim M - August 14, 2009
AAA team is a great description
A sweep, and nothing less, is both expected and needed. St. Louis is playing San Diego this weekend, and then the Dodgers. Time to make up some ground, hopefully!
ambrosiadreams - August 14, 2009
this sounds bad but if the Cubs don't sweep this team, they're going
nowhere
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
Let's see, the first step to a sweep is win game one. How about we start there?
BleedsbluinMI - August 14, 2009
A sweep is never an easy feat, no matter who the opponent is.
The Pirates may look inferior on paper, but there is a reason why the games have to be played.
Fraggin Judge - August 14, 2009
Agreed.
I never like to expect or predict a sweep – of any team. Unfortunately, the Cubs have put themselves in a position where only a sweep can redeem this wretched homestand.
daver - August 14, 2009
Would it even redeem it?
Honestly, going in, I would have been disappointed with 3-3
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
Well, redeem it to the extent possible at this point.
A .500 homestand isn’t good, but it’s better than nothing.
daver - August 14, 2009
So there's a chance?
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
IT'S HAPPENING!!!!!!
daver - August 14, 2009
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/dd(8).jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.examiner.com/x-1407-Phoenix-Suns-Examiner~y2009m5d16-5-in-1000-So-youre-telling-me-theres-a-chance&usg=__M_QBZsClXlGqTvKgle89uBI4xb8=&h=197&w=266&sz=12&hl=en&start=38&um=1&tbnid=sjzhr3rPoDCIbM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dso%2Byou%2527re%2Btelling%2Bme%2Bthere%2527s%2Ba%2Bchance%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN%26start%3D36%26um%3D1
jthack - August 14, 2009
Whoops...
That didn’t work now did it? :(
jthack - August 14, 2009
depedns on what
you were trying to do. :D
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
good point
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
well, I copied and pasted
It was ok
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
What's up kids?
I didn’t bother to read yesterday’s recap and its subsequent comments. What’s the mood?
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
ecstatic and exuberant because the pirates are in town
cubsnlinux - August 14, 2009
Yep and because 98% of people have jumped off the ledge
and aren’t here anymore.
Easy to count everyone as happy if it’s just you.
IllinoisCubs - August 14, 2009
one
one
one
one
one
…
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?.....
BigJohnAZ - August 14, 2009
Oh, I'm still here. Never say die until the Cubs are 2 behind with only one left to play.
Every winning streak starts with game #1. And that’s TODAY!
Zeke - August 14, 2009
I have equal amounts of doubt and hope,
but want so desperately to believe we can make it.
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
Let 'em jump
More space for me in the living room. Plus they can’t jump back on if fortunes turn.
Not Bruce Froemming - August 14, 2009
You underestimate the flexibility of fans.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Yeah, I guess there are
quite a few contortionists out there in fandom. :)
Not Bruce Froemming - August 14, 2009
Why not?
They pays their money, time and energy.
If I jump off when they are 10 games back and they come back, I’m jumping back on and no one is going to stop me.
Worf - August 14, 2009
Go ahead
but bandwagoners are the worst kind of fans.
Not Bruce Froemming - August 14, 2009
I guess we'll have to live with that assessment
The Cubs aren’t a religion or a calling.
They are entertainment. If a TV show doesn’t satisfy me, I don’t watch. If it picks up later, I watch.
Worf - August 14, 2009
I can't quit them.
LAcarl519 - August 14, 2009
I wouldn't call it quitting...
But stepping away for a while isn’t necessarily a bad thing for some people.
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
and that is your opinion
it isn’t a fact
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
Cmon WorF
Let Bruce have his Napoleon complex
Illicat - August 14, 2009
C'mon....
Worf is not a merry man….
TDubb - August 14, 2009
Unfortunately, they CAN jump back on. And will.
daver - August 14, 2009
It's a new day
Hopefully it’ll stay positive as long as they play well
chitownhawkeye - August 14, 2009
All is well!
Pirates are coming! Look at the pretty wins! Pay no attention to the good teams behind the curtain!
Worf - August 14, 2009
Oh... but if the Cubs lose today
I wouldn’t come in here unless you had on a hazmat suit and your immunization record is up to date.
Worf - August 14, 2009
But what can the haters say that's not been said?
And in the other hand, what can the “superfans” have to say in their defense?
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
The blue Kool-Aid tastes great...
Zeke - August 14, 2009
You underestimate the haters, chilango
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
that's only cause
they have joined the dark side
tootle - August 14, 2009
I didn't either...
No BCB, no online sports news sites, no CSN for me.
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
Oswalt is usually tough on us...
Wait… wut?
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
Haha
I didn’t even notice that.
madcow256 - August 14, 2009
Any idea if Aramis is back in the lineup today?
Al’s link only says he’s expected to be in the lineup, but that’s not the same.
madcow256 - August 14, 2009
caption
Geo: You know ryan, just because you cant see me doesnt mean i cant see you
Demp: Crap
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
Soriano: Can you guys see me?
Geo & Demp: Ummm… no?
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
"I don't regret this. But I both rue and lament it."
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
what woe!
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
Why is their no Pirates telecast?
Has FSN Pittsburg just given up?
GateCity, VA Cubs Fan - August 14, 2009
* there
GateCity, VA Cubs Fan - August 14, 2009
They're in Indy
With the real team
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
It appears FSN Pitt does not televise weekday "day" games.
Neither do the Padres. I can’t answer for the Pirates, but a Cox CATV (Cox is the rights holder to Padres telecasts) official told me ratings for day games during the week are awful in SD. I’ll have to assume that’s the case in Pittsburgh.
And, strangely enough — telecasts for Padres Friday night games on the road are usually just as bad. So, this year Cox decided to drop some Friday night east coast games from the schedule.
2 Friday night games, one at Washington and Florida — are dark.
This is a strange market, this San Diego.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - August 14, 2009
From Len & Bob Twitter feed
ScottieG33 - August 14, 2009
Just great...
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
randy wells also has a hangnail
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
and 'roids...
Zeke - August 14, 2009
and a convertible
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
Hem?
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
a convertible hem?
Skirt length up, skirt length down…
Zeke - August 14, 2009
no talking about pains in the rear
tootle - August 14, 2009
Fox in RF and Fontenot at 3B
Unless this comedy of errors continues and Miles gets the start at 3B—considering Fontenot is hidden in the darkest nook of Piniella’s doghouse.
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
::shakes fist at the sky::
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
Like this?
Jody Jody Davis - August 14, 2009
that sounds about right. when lou uses miles to PH instead of… well anyone you know he put you in his dogouse
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
How can we get Miles into Lou's doghouse?
He seems curiously doghouse-proof.
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
pictures with llamas
tootle - August 14, 2009
Someone light the SWL-signal!
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
For some reason...
…this reminds me of Ali G visiting the veteran, er, veterinarian.
dtpollitt - August 14, 2009
isn't that a little too tall
for miles though?
tootle - August 14, 2009
No, that llama is only 52 inches tall.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
darn it...
you need to make sure that there is a proper frame of reference when doing such. :P
tootle - August 14, 2009
hahaha
bakester - August 14, 2009
i dont know...
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
Miles is like that mean girlfriend we all had at some point
Your family hates her, your friends despise and make fun of her and even her friends talk behind her back. But you’re so blindly hypnotized by her that you just don’t listen to what these people—who actually care about you for real—tell you.
I had a couple of those in my day.
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
But that's 'cuz she was smokin' hot and a total freak between the sheets
Aaron Miles is more like the girl you say is “really sweet, and she’s trying to lose weight, honestly!”
Meanwhile, she’s 10 feet behind you, shoveling cake into her face with one hand, flipping off your mom with the other, and kicking your dog.
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
why not move Dome to RF
put Fuld in center and Fox at 3rd? I think I’d rather have Fox at third then Fontenot right now.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
who knows...
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
That would work for me.
daver - August 14, 2009
because Lou is the manager
Illicat - August 14, 2009
there's always a catch, isn't there?
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
Sometimes it makes me weep
Illicat - August 14, 2009
How do you get a tight hip?
Isn’t it a bone?
I SEE THROUGH YOUR FACADE, BRADLEY
dtpollitt - August 14, 2009
seriously?
tendons and ligaments connect to your hip… :D
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
It said "tight right hip".
That’s like saying, “My skull is tight today, I can’t fax the TPS reports”.
dtpollitt - August 14, 2009
lol@TPS reports
ambrosiadreams - August 14, 2009
No. It's not.
A tight hip is like saying a tight shoulder, or tight knee… they’re joints.
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
[insert Soto joke here]
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
You're really taking this seriously.
And ruining my making-fun-of-Bradley entertainment.
dtpollitt - August 14, 2009
well
use some emoticons or something… :D
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
Internetz is serious business...
I couldn’t tell if you were being sarcastic or not.
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
dood
no, it’s not.
Also, Bradley is the hottest Cubs hitter since the break. Just sayin’.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
AAARRRRRGHHHHHHH
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
and we have a chilango the pirate sighting
tootle - August 14, 2009
Uh-oh, Drew.
Please show me where you found that “stat”.
Because, since the all-star break:
(1) Lee has a .983 OPS
(2) Aramis has a .990 OPS
(3) Fukudome has a 1.044 OPS
and Bradley has a .863 OPS. </a
Oh, and Lee, Aramis, and Fukudome all have more HR and RBI than Bradley during that time. Don’t worry, I’m sure Bradley leads in walks or some other pissy statistics. Just sayin’, facts aren’t facts unless they are…facts.
Dan
dtpollitt - August 14, 2009
Whoops, nevermind.
Fukudome has 2 more BB than Bradley in 3 more PAs after the all-star break, too.
dtpollitt - August 14, 2009
Len and Bob
said it yesterday or the day before.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
I'm really unclear what he would be the "hottest" in.
Because it’s not HR, RBI, BB, R, H, OPS…do you see a pattern here?
dtpollitt - August 14, 2009
he's probably the hottest since they finally moved him to the 2 spot
and he started picking up a bit before that
shake n bake - August 14, 2009
Not sure if serious...
But the hip joint is very prone to injuries, like the shoulder joint.
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
Milton Bradley is also very prone to injuries
Illicat - August 14, 2009
Cubs tight lipped on Bradley's right hip.
daver - August 14, 2009
Dan might flip
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
Anything can happen
we have a lot of games against below .500 teams, let’s get it started today.
Trivia from my morning paper…..in 1969 the Mets fell 9.5 games out of first with their loss on this date. Anything can happen.
mrcubsfan - August 14, 2009
There's a memory I could have done without today...
Zeke - August 14, 2009
Of course we would all feel better if we were chasing us.
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
Uh, what?
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
he wants the cubs to perform in a chinese fire drill I think...
tootle - August 14, 2009
The Mets were chasing the Cubs in 69
So if we were the Mets of 69 in his scenario, then we would be chasing the Cubs of 69. Thus the Cubs chasing the Cubs, and then I’m sure we would have a much better feeling.
Or maybe I just need some more coffee.
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
Here is the thing
If we win one game more per week than the Cards for the next month, when the cards come to down we would be square. That isn’t exactly out of the question.
Just a side note, the 03 cubs were 2.5 out on August 31. If we make up 2 games by then, I feel real good.
And with the way this season has gone, would i be stunned if the cubs swept the pirates and the cards got swept by the Padres, no, and it will be jubilation here from all again come Monday!!!!!
niuhuskie224 - August 14, 2009
(waiting for the first senseless person to say) "This is the most important series of the year".
dtpollitt - August 14, 2009
hasn't it already happened?
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
nah...
only sensible people have said it so far
tootle - August 14, 2009
This is the most important series
of the year, of my LIFE!!!!!!!!
niuhuskie224 - August 14, 2009
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SERIES OF THE YEAR
IF WE DO NOT SWEEP, WE. ARE. DOOMED!
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
coughcough must win coughcough
daver - August 14, 2009
Even with us struggling
ESPN says that we have a 72% chance of winning.
GateCity, VA Cubs Fan - August 14, 2009
winning what?
the game? This series? The division?
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
the game
GateCity, VA Cubs Fan - August 14, 2009
you know
I can’t decide if that’s good or not — only a 72% chance of winning? Yeesh. :P
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
world series
of poker
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
the opening coin flip?
crap that’s right, not quite ready for football season.
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
Pressures off The Cubs will win
Over the last couple days the Cubs put to much pressure on themselves.
Now that the pressure is off they’ll put a streak together and maybe some confidence to beat batter teams.
Scott G F - August 14, 2009
Pressures off?
Hardly… the pressure is on more than ever IMO.
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
Besides
We don’t want to coast into the post season like last year and come up soft when the heat is on. We want to be hungry and needing to win the very last game to make it into the postseason and then carry that momentum all the way to the WS. This is how it should be.
100yearitch - August 14, 2009
Yes, we want the Cubs to enter the playoffs like they did in 2007, not 2008
Jody Jody Davis - August 14, 2009
actually at this point, I'll take them entering any way they can.
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
TWSS?
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
yes, TWSS
shake n bake - August 14, 2009
why is the pressure off?
Illicat - August 14, 2009
Lineups?
Freddyd - August 14, 2009
...
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Crap...
Is that Miles on the far left?
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
FTW
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
sure, here's one...
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
good lineup, lou
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
Can we do just this the rest of the afternoon, please?
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
Do all the girls have to be in a straight horizontal line?
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
that is one of the silliest questions you have ever asked sir
the answer is a resounding NO
tootle - August 14, 2009
OK....
NSFW…..but not vulgar.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
How very hypnotic.
Got more?
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
chilango, you act like you've never searched for porn before...
LOL
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
Of course I haven't!
My wife installed CyberNanny on my puter…
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
LOL
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
position players only?
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
my god
it’s full of stars!
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
*sigh*
Blue question mark box… access denied.
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
There's only 8 of them, who doesn't get a girl?
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
Why are we only starting 8?
dtpollitt - August 14, 2009
You didn't hear
Miles is starting, regardless.
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
I like who Lou has batting fourth.
BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness - August 14, 2009 via mobile
RONNY! RONNY! RONNY! RONNY! RONNY!
Welcome back baby boy
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
i forgot about ONEDEC...
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
Standing O, a la DeRo
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
did they just announce him?
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Lineup!!!
Theriot, SS
Bradley, RF
Lee, 1B
Ramirez, 3B
Fukudome, CF
Soriano, LF
Baker, 2B
Hill, C
Wells, P
jthack - August 14, 2009
F U Lou
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
so you don't like the lineup?
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
eh not really, i just don't like theriot hitting leadoff even though he's hitting .348
theriot looks better 7 or 8 but that’s me :)
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
pretty strong statement to Lou for a "eh, not really"....lol
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
hahah i effing hate it!
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
no Soto
I hope Rami is feeling better. And bradley’s back in the 2 spot.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Bruce Miles says Lou isn't happy with Soto
I can see that, but Soriano keeps playing?
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
Sure.
Because it makes sense to keep running Soriano out there when Fox can actually hit.
Bill Potter - August 14, 2009
Lou has 18 million reasons...
Why Sori needs to play everyday.
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
Yeah . . . I know
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
Hello Soto?
No Soto.
daver - August 14, 2009
Good to see MB and Aramis in there...
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
yay muffin man
hopefully the fontenot experiment is over
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
with the way Baker has been playing
he should start at 2b every day.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
if miles gets cut and andy white stays
all is well in cubbie middle infield land
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
If Sandberg and Dunston come back
All is better than it is today.
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
I wonder
if Sandberg today could outplay Miles today.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Probably looks less silly running the bases
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
and swinging the bat, probably
Bill Potter - August 14, 2009
I wonder what Dunston thinks when he sees Theriot throw
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
my daughter could throw better?
tootle - August 14, 2009
I bet it starts with
“Oh, god…”
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
"How come that's not going into the stands?"
“That one wouldn’t even make the stands! Sheesh!”
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Well, it's a start
But why the insistence on batting Theriot first?
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
lou is stuck on having a LH batter in the 5 hole
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
ahh i get it
start Koyie Hill because Soto has apparently hit this guy before….that makes sense.
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
Lineups via Yahoo!
Link
Ramirez at 3b, Bradley in Rf, no Miles
Jody Jody Davis - August 14, 2009
swing and a miss
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
what????
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
What!?
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
that would be a "late scratch" from the lineup card...
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
its a conspiracy
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
Never question Drew again.
daver - August 14, 2009
I believe
I called it.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Here - borrow this:
daver - August 14, 2009
wewt!
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
oh and alex gonzalez got traded to the Bo Sox .... the "other" alex gonzalez
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
from the reds?
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
yes.
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
Yeah, he cleared waivers.
jthack - August 14, 2009
Reds seemed to be getting rid of vets...
First Weathers, now Gonzalez.
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
Next...
Dusty?
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Brewers DFA'd Bill Hall, right?
jthack - August 14, 2009
yes.
dtc0405 - August 14, 2009
the red sox have like 10 SS
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
As opposed to our 1/2
Life just ain’t fair sometimes…
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
are you saying
that you think Theriot is bad?
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
he's a below average fielder and his approach at the plate is at times questionable
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
I'm contractually obligated to say the following:
Not according to UZR.
daver - August 14, 2009
and the Theriot can of worms is officially open for business...
LOL
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
Then let's trade him to UZR. They can have him.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
Just adding some balance to the conversation.
daver - August 14, 2009
you left out his horrible baserunning an inabiltiy to get anyone out on a ball hit to his right.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
ahh
I forgot…we should hate the guy that is batting .300…that makes sense
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
Here we go.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
I just don't see
why anyone can hate on Theriot…
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
You want the list?
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
yes I want the list
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
OK
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Nobody is complaining about his batting average. Put him at 2nd base and just about all the complaining would stop.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
+1
It helps that he’s not paid like the rest of our team.
madcow256 - August 14, 2009
except for after those ABs when he thinks he's a power hitter
shake n bake - August 14, 2009
Well, yeah...
but we have to deal with that after Milton Bradley’s ABs sometimes too.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
No, no
Hendry thought Milton Bradley was a power hitter, not Milton.
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
I don't hate Riot
and I think he’s been playing better then he did last year. But I’d like to move him to second base where his arm is less of a liability.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
see
I agree with that
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
+1
He isn’t walking as much as last year, but he hasn’t made nearly as many boneheaded baserunning plays either.
Jody Jody Davis - August 14, 2009
when you hit a lot of HRs
you cant make baserunning errors
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
define
“a lot of HRs”
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
to theriot
7
to me, whatever pujols hits
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
Pretty much how I feel...
…though I think he’s overachieved at the shortstop position defensively and isn’t quite as bad as many claim. I wish the Brewers weren’t in our division – I understand J.J. Hardy will likely be traded during the off-season.
daver - August 14, 2009
well
first we trade Miles and Heilman for ERIC LIND and then we send Lind to the Brewers for JJ Hardy.
GETI TDON EJIM!
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
eric lind?
is he the child of eric hanna and adam lind?
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
yes! :D
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
So Dave Kaplan does post here!
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
He's taken fewer walks than Soriano this year.
Jody Jody Davis - August 14, 2009
Wow...
That’s just…Wow. Really?
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
sweet
since when did anyone care about walks? I thought everyone hated on Milton Bradley because walks aren’t important….
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
You paint with a broad brush my friend.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
I am just restating
what I have read on here before, when Bradley was walking, nobody was happy. lol
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
Some of us were...and still are.
daver - August 14, 2009
When he was batting in RBI spots...
Batting 2nd he can walk all he wants.
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
I wasn't his walks that caused the hate....it's WHERE he was batting when he drew them.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
yea
but you could put Aaron Miles in the 5 spot and he wouldn’t drive in too many runs either…lol. Bradley had a crazy year last year, and I think our scouts judged him more on that than anything.
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
I hate our scouts.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
+1 Trillion
Illicat - August 14, 2009
More than anything about this organization.
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
I'm
happy with Milton’s walks.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
walks aren’t important….
they just clog up the bases.
dtc0405 - August 14, 2009
don't hate him ... just think the Cubs can do better
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
and since when was the
leadoff hitter job to strictly walk? it is to get on base…his OBP is 50 points higher than Sorianos…do I think Fuku should be leading off? yes…but why are you hating on Theriot, it is sad
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
SS is probably the 2nd most important position behind C and maybe CF
stats are whatever but just watching him, he is a very very very average fielder.
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
Pitcher is pretty important
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
i meant fielding wise
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
Just being a smartass
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
hahaah ok.
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
Thats alot of very for average.
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
and a very very very below average thrower.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
yes I agree with that
move him to 2nd, where his arm isn’t a liability, he is a good hitter. I would say we have the 2nd best SS in the division behind Tejada, and he is old. I would take Theriot over Hardy
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
I'm guessing you put a lot of stock in batting average, don't you?
daver - August 14, 2009
well his
OBP is like .350 which isn’t bad…Fuku’s is like .390 which is above average
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
Right - Dome should be batting leadoff, not Theriot.
daver - August 14, 2009
yes
I agree with that….I am not saying I don’t. I am saying that Theriot doesn’t suck.
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
Well, Hardy's in AAA now, so you really can't count him..
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
hello Alcides escobar
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
He's had an awful year at the plate...
…but he’s still a very good defensive shortstop. We wouldn’t be complaining about his arm.
daver - August 14, 2009
He's the bizzaro Theriot.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
I don't know about that. He had a very GOOD year
at the plate last year.
Illicat - August 14, 2009
you would take
Ryan Theriot over JJ Hardy?
BA/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+/ErrR/UZR/WAR
.299/.351/.413/.765/1.5/4.6/9.2
- Ryan Theriot- JJ Hardy.229/.300 /.367/.667/75/2.1/8.7/13.4
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
curses.
stupid formatting.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
like how you struck through
ryan’s name & jj’s stats
tootle - August 14, 2009
lolllllllllll
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
Soooooo...what was supposed to happen here?
daver - August 14, 2009
he was comparing
ryan to hardy
tootle - August 14, 2009
it's supposed to compare
BA/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+/ErrR/UZR/WAR
.299/.351/.413/.765/1.5/4.6/9.2 Ryan Theriot
.229/.300 /.367/.667/75/2.1/8.7/13.4 JJ Hardy
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
ummm
it’s missing the ops+ info
tootle - August 14, 2009
sorry
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Right - that's just this year, though.
Compare their numbers from last year – and tell me whether Ryan Theriot will ever hit 20+ home runs. Also, Hardy’s WAR is still noticeably higher.
daver - August 14, 2009
I know
I was suggesting that taking Ryan over JJ was not a good idea.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Ah, so we're in agreement.
I should have known!
Actually, I’m not saying Hardy is a slam dunk – but it’s hard to believe he’s simply forgotten how to hit. And I really don’t know what it would take to get him – especially within the division. But I’ve always admired the guy’s skizzzills.
daver - August 14, 2009
a mambochicken
moment?
tootle - August 14, 2009
teachable
even
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Right
so you would rather take a 20 HR SS who is going to hit .230 than a 10 HR SS who is going to hit .300….right. I guess we do need more Soriano’s on our team
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
Slugging is more valuable than batting average.
daver - August 14, 2009
career average .262 hitter.
i would take .262/20 HRs over .300/ HRs
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
.300/ 7 HRs
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
he had 2 years
where he batted good…well above average for a SS. He has had 3 years where he has batted below average….so I mean, he has pretty much shown us what Soto has so far, and everyone gave up on him it seems like
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
i think everybody would be very happy if he gets moved over to 2B
it suits him the best. And also, nobody is mad theriot hits .300, i just think that as an NL SS you need to hit for more power.
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
good
I agree with moving him over to 2nd…because I think he is a solid player. It would be nice if he could hit with more power, but what can you do. I am just standing up for Theriot because I think there are a lot worse things about this team. lol
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
but most of the worst things about his team...
involve injuries. Theriot’s problems are physical, but not because of injury.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
not really
unless you consider long slumps to be injuries. Yes the Ramirez injury has been extremely bad, but we have shown that not 1 of the other 7 hitters can pick up the slack, which is pretty pathetic (I purposefully counted Lee out). If you go back to the start of the season, Lee, Soto, Bradley, and Fontenot all were batting below .200.
HardForharden - August 14, 2009
Wait, who are we talking about?
daver - August 14, 2009
ADAM LIND!
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
theriot i think
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
absolutely
I would.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
way way way wait...you said he was BELOW average.
daver - August 14, 2009
very very very very below average
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
verily below average.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
3,097.2 innings at SS in his MLB career
8.1 UZR – that’s over eight runs saved over a league-average replacement
Again, just pointing this out for perspective.
daver - August 14, 2009
i hate perspective.
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
jk but honestly i would rather have derek jeter than ryan theriot fielding wise
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
uzr for dj = -34.7
but that’s just me
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
hanley ramirez= -24.2 (much fewer games though)
former cub alex gonzalez (i thought was an outstanding fielder) = -1.3
jose reyes = 8
rafael furcal = -26.6
I would take any of these players over theriot. But yeah these numbers are a little surprising.
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
I'm not saying UZR is perfect...
…but that’s a pretty huge sample size for Theriot now. And those ratings are based on every play of every game, which most of us don’t see.
daver - August 14, 2009
Not bad
For a guy who can get to around 2/3s of the balls a major league SS should be able to get and who seems unable to throw the ball in the air to 1B without a double-clutch.
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
11 if that beckett deal didn't go through
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
So do we resign Theriot at the end of the year?
And, if, so, how much is he worth?
Appreciate his limitations but like him as a Cub.
STLCubby - August 14, 2009
He'll want...
Aaron Miles money.
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
I think the last time we faced Charlie Morton...
…Soriano got this
I blame Jurjjens for falling down the clubhouse stairs and injuring himself.
cubswynn - August 14, 2009
Charlie Morton sounds like a guy who owns a restaurant.
“Come on down to Charlie Morton’s Steakhouse! Free dessert with the early bird special!”
daver - August 14, 2009
Charlie Morton is the subject of my sentence....
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
Morton's has actually declined in the last few years
It’s a damn shame too. They had a great steak. Now it’s below average, just like Charlie.
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
Charlie is average
For a AAAA pitcher.
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Which forebodes a loss?
tootle - August 14, 2009
Always does, right?
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
He's got a pretty good fan base though..
carmen_fanzone - August 14, 2009
Classy!
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
That must be what made me think of it.
daver - August 14, 2009
If you combine Charlie Trotter's with Morton's, you get Charlie Morton's
Jody Jody Davis - August 14, 2009
And whaddya know - it's lunchtime and I haven't eaten.
daver - August 14, 2009
Tiger Woods starts @ 130 pm central.
I think I’ll watch that instead of this game. Free on PGA.com!
dtpollitt - August 14, 2009
Tiger could hit 5th on this team.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
can he field a ball up the middle?
…will he double-clutch on the throw?
how is he with RISP?
LAcarl519 - August 14, 2009
Wittenmyer and Sullivan are absent from Twitter today
I’m not sayin’… I’m just sayin’…
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
Zell finally fired them?
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
Trib didn't want to pay their travel expenses to the game...
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Isn't this a home game?
Oh iswydt
BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness - August 14, 2009 via mobile
Zell can't fire Wittenmyer just quite yet
But I would walk on my knees to Our Lady of Guadalupe’s if he fired the latter.
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
Getting drunk at Murphy's.
daver - August 14, 2009
Paul Sullivan is the beer-tosser!
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Sullivan is a tosser alright
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
Bloody tosser!
daver - August 14, 2009
Good trivia on WGN News
Who is the only MLB player to be ejected from a game without ever having appeared on a line-up card?
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
It's got to be Miles
Illicat - August 14, 2009
Ted Lilly?
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
Ted Lilly throws the umpires out
jthack - August 14, 2009
It was Lilly this year, no?
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
Think so.
daver - August 14, 2009
That can't be
“Ever” must mean never ever on a lineup card.
Lilly is certainly not the only player to be thrown out of a game that he wasn’t playing in.
Shanghai Badger - August 14, 2009
In their MLB career
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
ohhhhhhhhh
daver - August 14, 2009
twss
tootle - August 14, 2009
The guy who threw the beer two nights ago?
BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness - August 14, 2009 via mobile
this guy
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
Steve McMichael by Angel Hernandez?
That was a funny exchange…….I miss those days…
jthack - August 14, 2009
Trivia Answer
Bill Sharman.
From Wikipedia: From 1950 to 1955 Sharman played professional baseball in the Brooklyn Dodgers minor league system. He was called up to the Dodgers late in the 1951 season but did not appear in a game; as a result of a September 27 game in which the entire Brooklyn bench was ejected from the game for arguing with the umpire, Sharman holds the distinction of being the only player to have ever been ejected from a major league game without ever appearing in one.
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
That is kind of sad. Poor guy never got to play?
BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness - August 14, 2009 via mobile
Yup
Gets one cup of coffee, and the only thing notable about it was getting tossed.
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Lou on the current state of the Cubs..."What can you do?"
God I am sick of that line.
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
You can fire the manager
would be my response if he asked me
Illicat - August 14, 2009
Let's give Lou the left-handed power hitter he still thinks we need
in Barry Bonds
jthack - August 14, 2009
yeah!
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
He also mentioned the injuries
Bonds’ knees weren’t exactly the greatest joints in the league the last couple of years he played…
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Soto has great joints...hasn't helped him
LAcarl519 - August 14, 2009
Beat me to it!!
jthack - August 14, 2009
it was a lay up...
LAcarl519 - August 14, 2009
Eases the pain a bit, no?
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
I wouldn't know, but there is a Medical Marijuana store across from my office
LAcarl519 - August 14, 2009
Does being a Cub fan qualify for the medical status needed?
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
I'll walk in with my Marmol jersey next week and see what happens
LAcarl519 - August 14, 2009
Just don't walk into the wrong store. :)
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
How about Howard Johnson then?
He was a switch-hitter…
jthack - August 14, 2009
ummm
the cubs have already been there and done that.
tootle - August 14, 2009
Bring back O-Henry?
jthack - August 14, 2009
I hear he was a real sleeper.
daver - August 14, 2009
new lineup
Theriot SS
Fuld CF
Lee 1B
Fox 3B
Kosuke RF
Soriano LF
Baker 2B
Hill C
Wells P
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
Oh Sweet Mother of All That is Good and Pure
That reeks of suckage.
Worf - August 14, 2009
Smells like...Des Moines!
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Sans Lee, yes.
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
I was thinking Decatur, IL.....
jthack - August 14, 2009
at least it's not Cedar Rapids
now that’s a smelly Iowa town.
shake n bake - August 14, 2009
Corn + Pigs?
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Quaker Oats plant
shake n bake - August 14, 2009
And until recently, rotting vegetation/debris on the floodplain....
D98 - August 14, 2009
Unbelievably bad odor
in Cedar Rapids.
Not Bruce Froemming - August 14, 2009
Fail
The smelly one is Manchester. Cedar Rapids is OK.
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
Get yourself to Beardstown, IL sometime
You can smell the screams of the hogs.
Worf - August 14, 2009
Yuck
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
Looks all ass-backward to me.
daver - August 14, 2009
at least it doesn't have Miles
and has Fontenot on the bench to hopefully prevent a Miles appearance.
shake n bake - August 14, 2009
This will certainly level the playing field with the Pirates today.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
well
not as much power as we had 20 minutes ago.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
I think it's hilarious
Good ole Lou. Don’t actually change the lineup because different players are playing, just insert them into the same spots as the people they are going to replace, regardless of whether their skill sets suit that position in the lineup
Illicat - August 14, 2009
I like this line up a great deal
BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness - August 14, 2009 via mobile
Warm day
Wind blowing out – sounds like a good day to be a ballhawk
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Crappy lineup sort of...
Negates the wind factor. Maybe Lee or Fox can hit one out.
CubsBullsBears - August 14, 2009
Wayne Messmer singing it up
TIME FOR A W !!!!!!
jthack - August 14, 2009
Does he sing most of the anthems?
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
doesn't he sign for hawks and bulls too?
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
Just the American one.
santoswoodenlegs - August 14, 2009
Yeah, you should look up his story too. Gunshot victim...
jthack - August 14, 2009
This season
I’m ok with it – he’s got a pretty decent voice.
Maybe he should do TMOTTBG…
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Messmerizing.
CHICAGO CUBS BASEBALL IS ON THE AIR!
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Anyone else, possibly in the Eastern Iowa area
getting a black screen with a No signal message on WGN?
shake n bake - August 14, 2009
Onedec is batting second! Onedec is batting second!
daver - August 14, 2009
hawk- HELL YEAH!
lexmarklover - August 14, 2009
WOOO
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
I've got a bad feeling that guy is going to do something against us.
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
Overslide 2nd base?
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
No, overWALK 2nd base
I hated that guy. I don’t care if he goes 8-8 with a double cycle today. He’s a dumbass.
Worf - August 14, 2009
overrun second base?
what he’ll do is make a lot of good plays on D. Which will make us jealous.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
don't know
he made the hard ones look easy and the easy ones look hard
tootle - August 14, 2009
TWSS?
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
never question a TWSS
go for the gusto
tootle - August 14, 2009
And apparently
This is also the First Pitch Thread. Shouldn’t have had The Riot Debate, I guess…
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Really?
Guess he thought traffic would be really slow after the last few days…
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
Yo yo yo
stuartscottslefteye - August 14, 2009
bright sunny and hot
FASHION REPORT!
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Lotta white
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Has this been discussed anywhere yet?
http://tinyurl.com/oad6ew
LT - August 14, 2009
Yes. Look at the FanPosts
chilango2 - August 14, 2009
Pure speculation.
cubswynn - August 14, 2009
it'sbased on a rumor
that Sullivan essentially made up.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
saw that this morning
I’d only be happy if Jim got canned as well. We can’t let Jim hire our next manager
Illicat - August 14, 2009
McKeutcheon singles. Cedeno to the plate.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
Cedeno
is hitting .313???
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
for the pirates
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
Minus the Seattle numbers
Adam U - August 14, 2009
As a Pirate, yeah - think so.
daver - August 14, 2009
Where's the first pitch thread?
daver - August 14, 2009
MIA
LAcarl519 - August 14, 2009
You're soaking in it
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Someone make an emergency FPT?
cubswynn - August 14, 2009
Necessary?
I will if things are going too slow here…
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
cool - let us know
daver - August 14, 2009
Done
JUMP!
Clutch16 - August 14, 2009
Probably should - this one is gonna slow down ridiculously.
daver - August 14, 2009
ONEDEC
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
If Cedeno has a big day..
…I may give up on the season
cubswynn - August 14, 2009
So Al forgot the First Pitch Thread again?
dtc0405 - August 14, 2009
so Al is imitating Soriano today ?
LAcarl519 - August 14, 2009
Should create an emergency ersatz thread?
eths - August 14, 2009
Cedeno
4-6-3 GIDP!
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
THAT'S OUR ONEDEC!!!!
daver - August 14, 2009
Nice to see some things never change.
cubswynn - August 14, 2009
WOOO
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
props to Riot for the non-double clutch
KaliCub - August 14, 2009
Jones to the plate
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
tapped to the right side
Baker throws him out. Three up, three down, essentially.
drewishdrewid - August 14, 2009
so...
CALL YOUR SONS CALL YOUR DAUGHTERS CALL YOUR FRIENDS CALL YOUR NEIGHBORS, RANDY WELLS ESSENTIALLY HAS A PERFECT GAME GOING INTO THE 2ND
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
jump
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/8/14/988741/first-pitch-thread-cubs-vs-pirates
jesus christos - August 14, 2009
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