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Bleed Cubbie Blue

Lou Piniella To Return For 2010

So says Gordon Wittenmyer in the Sun-Times:

Piniella's status had been a matter of public speculation since June, when he declined to give direct answers to repeated media questions about his 2010 intentions. He had left his two most recent managing jobs, in Seattle and Tampa Bay, on his own terms with time left on those contracts.

Piniella ended the speculation Friday: "I'm planning to come back next year," he said before the Cubs lost to the Dodgers 2-1 in Los Angeles.

Now. I was not a Lou fan before he was hired. He did an outstanding job in 2007 and 2008, but has seemed somnolent and distracted this year. If he's going to return in 2010, he'd better start getting off his butt and managing the Cubs the way he did the last two years.

Also, just because Lou says he's "planning" on coming back does not preclude management from buying out his extension and making a change. I'm not quite sure how I feel right now. Do we get the 2007-08 Lou next year? If so, keep him. If we get the 2009 version, I could do without him.

Discuss.

Poll
Should Lou Piniella return next year?
Yes
252 votes
No
291 votes
Undecided
99 votes

642 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  202 comments

Comments

Gee that made my day

Another season of craptastic managing. I hope this is just cover because if he said otherwise now , he would look worse than he does and that is hard. Go home to Florida and enjoy your family because " what can I do" is not the response of a good manager whose team just keeps finding new ways to lose.

I agree

Not sure why he seems so disinterested this year but you can tell the difference.

maybe it is because Hendry got rid of all of the good players and replaced them with mediocre-at-best subs?
All the good players?

Really, man?

DeRosa > Miles and Fontenot combined
Wood > Gregg

And all that for Milton Bradley who has been nothing but a train wreck except for this month

Fair enough, i won't argue those two examples...

… even if you aren’t telling the whole story (Wood’s bad year and contract)…

But Wood and DeRo did not encompass ALL the good players from last year.

And it has been argued that it was Lou himself that wanted Bradley, or a player of his type at least.

Even if the moves were made from salary reasons, there's no question that this year's team is less talented.

DeRo has been replaced by Miles and Baker- major downgrade
Wood’s been replaced by Gregg – major downgrade
Soto replaced by fatter ineffective version of himself – major downgrade
Edmonds has been replaced by Bradley – slight upgrade.
Marquis has been replaced by Wells – upgrade
Cotts has been replaced by Grabow – major upgrade, but made too late
Wuertz/Howry replaced by Heilman/Guzman – big upgrade.

So on paper, the roster moves made by Hendry have essentially been a wash. The difference is that this year, we’ve had to deal with many more injuries. That’s not Lou’s fault.

Well...

… 2 of those examples of downgrades are questionable in the greater scheme of things… Baker is showing big potential and Wood hasn’t exactly been Mariano Rivera this season. And the ‘major downgrade’ that is Soto getting fatter can’t really be blamed on Lou or Hendry, and thus isn’t really relevant to this Lou and Hendry based discussion.

I’d agree with the “wash on paper”, i suppose (although you didn’t take in to consideration contracts or age) … and the “less talented”, well, maybe… but you didn’t mention Bradley anywhere, and the dude is clearly showing over the last month plus that he brings some talent to the plate, and has absolutely been bringing talent to right field.

Nevermind, you mentioned Bradley.

I’m so hungover i can’t even read… jeeze. Time to kick this with a smoothie, some Excedrin, and a sweaty run. Peace.

Well, LAST month AND this month.
I'm fine with this.....
There is 42 games left

If after the season he says the same thing, it will be different.

And again, just because he wants to return...

… doesn’t mean Jim Hendry or Crane Kenney or Tom Ricketts won’t tell him to head on home.

I agree, the 42 games remaining have a lot to do with Lou’s future.

And Hendry and Kenney may have no say in the matter, anyway.
Why would the next 42 games mean more than the entire body of work as a Cubs manager?

It seems silly to suggest that Lou has somehow become a different manager this year than he was in 07 or 08. He’s the same guy, the talent just hasn’t performed for him. At worst he is going to win the division 2 out of 3 years, not bad for a Cubs manager.

Is he supposed to win the division every year and be fired if he doesn’t? How much better do you think any manager would have made this team this year? Do you believe any manager could have made this team 4 or 5 wins better? Lou has had more success as a Cubs manager over the last 2 2/3 seasons than any manager in the last 100 years.

  It would be a shame to see him ran out of town because of his best hitter being injured and 4 or 5 other players under-performing. Of course, the only opinions that matter on Lou are the ones of new ownership and whomever they bring in to run the organization. It’s pretty clear Hendry is looking at the big picture and isn’t going to turn on Lou if he sticks around.

Has he ever really been put to the test...

Besides the rough patch in early ‘07, has he ever shown he can outmanage someone like TLR? In pressure situations, he’s made bad decisions and his team has failed (pulling Z early in Game 1 in ’07, playing Dome twice in the NLDS last year after struggling mightily.)

Would any manager have made this team 4 or 5 wins better? Who knows. But I’m damn sure another manager wouldn’t have continued to run Soriano out there for weeks at a time struggling as bad as he is, and kept him at leadoff for as long as Lou did.

he outmanaged

TLR at least once last year.

Post...

Said game and situation.

So, who on this roster should Lou have played everyday instead of Soriano?

It’s not Lou’s fault that Soriano, Soto and Fontenot have all performed below expectations and it’s not his fault Aramis, the team’s best hitter, has been hurt most of the year. The point would be a manager can’t make players better. I think managing a team to 97 wins says a lot more about a guy’s ability to manage than 6 playoff games.

Since you mentioned playoffs, did you happen to notice all of the defensive miscues in game 2 of the 08 playoffs and the lack of offensive production by the players in all 3 games? Do you really think the difference in the Dodgers series was Fukudome? Lou put’s guys into position to succeed and if they fail it is on them.

The real test for any manager is a 162 game season and Lou has done well above average in that regard.
What exactly

are we getting out of him for $4m/year? He does not seem to hold players accountable. He seems repeatedly way behind the curve on things like getting Soriano out of the leadoff spot. His in-game decision making has generally been bad (recent example such as leaving Marmol in to face lefty with bases loaded, PHing Aaron Miles, etc.).

The evidence seems clear that he is both disinterested and ineffective. Time for both parties to move on.

He sounds just like Dusty Baker when you put it that way.
I'm just bitter

for when he got annoyed with me on the street last week. haha

I don't blame you for that!
What exactly happened?
I arrived in Chicago

for my annual trip and was walking downtown from the El to my hotel when I ran into Lou walking with a friend. I asked him for a quick picture, he got annoyed and said “hurry up, I gotta go” and then his friend jacked up the picture. Kinda fits right into the season, I suppose.

That's crappy

I had my picture taken with Dusty. He even took out his toothpick.

maybe

he actually had something he had to go do. They do have lives outside of baseball.

Yes, but -

That is part of the package. Piniella doesn’t owe us a picture, but he owes civility as long as he is met with the same civility.

Look...

How do you eat a Whopper? You eat it one bite at a time!

doesn't mean

he has to be an ass about it. It only takes a few seconds to take a picture.

AND AFTER ALL...

Don’t the fans pay his inflated salary ?

It actually didn't

bother me that much. I was mostly annoyed that his friend couldn’t follow simple iphone picture instructions. Heh.

It was 2pm on a 7pm game day so he was clearly on his way to the ballpark. I mean, this is who the guy is, none of us should be surprised.

I’m not much of a celeb fanboy. Normally, I wouldn’t have said anything to him but it was so ironic that I had just arrived that I had to try to get a picture.

In hindsight, the night before was when he left Marmol in to face Howard instead of bringing in Grabow so I should have made a smart ass remark about that.

LOL- that story is so Lou.

Thanks!

I don't mind lou.

He has just managed so poorly this year. He needs to step up his game.

Agree

I think that is a good point. I am a Lou fan but he did manage poorly this season.

It could just be that he's experienced enough to know that saying anything but...

…what he did would start a firestorm of speculation, etc., and he doesn’t want to deal with it.
At the same time, I have a nervous feeling that, due to the oft-mentioned bad contracts, etc., we might be watching a rerun of all of this next season. I hope I’m wrong but…

Holding out hope that somebody (insert your own ideas) will be brought in to learn...

… under Lou for the last season of his duties. A manager in waiting, if you will. Somebody who, over the season, could slowly take on more responsibility and be fully ready to manage come end of next year.

To me, it doesn’t seem that Lou’s lost his mind or anything. He’s still making the occasional shrewd move (putting Sean Marshall in left field vs. the cards comes to mind) and undoubtedly has plenty of knowledge to pass along. He seems to lack energy this year. A younger dude with some fire, learning from Lou, may be just what this team needs.

Ideas?

Interesting thought

I’d guess Trammell would be a possibility- he’s been there a few years now and knows the players and the farm system (and the challenges of working with the Cubs). Of course, there is always the possibility that Ryno could be elevated to Chicago as a bench coach and spend a year or two at Lou’s knee in preparation for handing over the reigns.

My biggest fear with Ryno...

… is something SWL brought up the other day. Do you want to hire somebody who’s so beloved he may be unfireable? I know Detroit did it to Trammell, but still… rough.

My fear about Sandberg

Is something that Bruce Miles mentioned in his blog. Apparently, Sandberg’s been criticized for being too much of a small ball manager, obsessed with bunting.

Been there, done that with Don Baylor. Don’t want to go back to it.

I don't want to go back to that either.

It may be that Sandberg is doing that because he is managing minor leaguers and wants to teach them that skill. That would be a very useful thing for a Double-A manager to do.

You could have said the same thing about the White Sox and Ozzie Guillen. Someday they’ll have to fire him, too. Obviously, he wasn’t as good a player as Sandberg and Trammell, but he was just as beloved by Sox fans.

Balance

I have a horrible memory so I don’t remember Baylor ball, but isn’t balance a good thing. To criticize Sandberg for playing too much small ball is absurd. Fundamentals are preached in the minors or at least should be. They are still learning to play the game right while in the minors. Ryno hit plenty of long balls, but he could also lay down a bunt and sacrifice. If you have HR power, then the HR will come. If you try to only hit HR, then you end up hitting a weak dribbler to the 2nd baseman.4-6-3 DP

I don't know if it's absurd or not

I’m not doing the criticizing, as I haven’t seen it.

But the dumbest strategy I remember being consistently employed during the Baker era was a bunt following a lead-off double in the first inning. Wind blowing in, out, cross. . . didn’t matter.

Bring Back Jim Riggleman

I distinctly remember him telling the press “Taking the bat out of a hitter’s hand destroys their confidence”. Trouble was, we’d see Brant Brown or Glenallen Hill whiff after the leadoff double, followed by a first-pitch popup and then a weak grounder.

Rigs was always prepared, though

He just had crap teams.

If you try to only hit HR, then you end up hitting a weak dribbler to the 2nd baseman.4-6-3 DP

aaron miles tries to hit HRs?

Always assumed

I assumed when Trammel was hired he was there to learn from Lou with the intentions of taking over one day.

Don't think so.

I think he was simply put in place as an “assistant manager” who had previous experience, nothing more.

Fine with me.

He’ll deserve to be here when they raise the gonfalon next year.

gonfalon?
gon⋅fa⋅lon
/ˈgɒnfələn / [gon-fuh-luhn] –noun 1. a banner suspended from a crossbar, often with several streamers or tails.

I think Katie Casey is implying Lou deserves to be here when a pennant is raised.. as in we’ll win a World Series this year, there will be a ceremony next year to display the gonfalon at Wrigley

Which makes no sense, as i’d bet Lou would have retired if he’d gotten another ring this year. Purely speculation, but this is about as far fetched as it gets either way.

Drugs are bad, guys. Mmmmmkay?

Hm, interesting. Thanks.
Thanks Mr. Mackey

At first I thought “gonfalon” = god-awful + woebegon.

It's from the Tinker to Evers to Chance poem.

These are the saddest of possible words:
“Tinker to Evers to Chance.”
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
Making a Giant hit into a double-
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
“Tinker to Evers to Chance.”

Oh, well in that case, how could i have missed it?

Shame on me.

I feel like a nimnul.....
I wouldn't have known what it was either if there wasn't a footnote in my book.

It’s just such a fun word I like to use it whenever possible.

I like to use the word "execrable."

People often think I’m making it up.

It’s come in handy lately with the way the Cubs have been playing.

Wow, you're schoolin' me here.
I am only implying the pennant. WS would be icing on the cake.
Hey, Katie... you are already dropping knowledge enough on us.

Did you just KNOW the word gonfalon? My spell check isn’t even down with that ish… seems italian!

You are clearly wiser than I, so if you see a pennant in the near future, who am i to argue? :-)

Relationship

What kind of baseball relationship to Lou and Jim have? Do they get along? I’m curious. Obviously, Jim has the final decision, but did Lou have any input into which players were brought in or let go in the off season? If not, is that the reason for Lou’s mood? Did Lou prefer Ibanez/Abreu over Bradley, but did Jim go after Bradley without conferring with Lou first?

I’m just trying to get a feel for what is really going on.

Looking across town, Ozzie and Kenny appear to have a good GM/Manager relationship. They both have input regarding the players, but ultimately Kenny makes the final decision.

They have one thing in common

They’re both ineffective at their jobs, and have failed miserably in ‘09. If Lou continues his late-inning, inexplicable moves he should be relieved for next year. He singlehandedly lost Thursday night’s game by PH Miles for Gorzy who was in a groove with just 82 pitches.

Well, we don't know if...

… the Cubs might not have lost Thursday anyway. The game that Lou really tossed away was the first game of the Philly series, by not having Grabow warming up with three LH hitters coming up in a row and Marmol walking everyone on the planet.

If the Cubs win that game, maybe they have confidence enough to win the Philly series, instead of getting swept.

True

Yes, I guess that game was more of a foul up than Thursday’s game. Those types of games are becoming common place lately.

The only problem with this theory is that lefties actually have a better average against Grabow.

There is no way of knowing if Grabow would have had more success than Marmol did. I would also like to know how lack of confidence kept the Cubs from winning the next two games, please be specific. Here I was under the misconception that the Phillies simply had better pitching and better hitting than the Cubs did in those last 2 games.

However...

… Lou did that all year, earlier, with Sean Marshall, who is NOT a LOOGY. The “book” thing to do was to have Grabow up. Or Marshall, if not Grabow.

Marmol had nothing that day. You’ve got to have someone up.

And if the Cubs win the first game, maybe the momentum of the rest of the series shifts to them. Oh, I forgot. You stat types don’t believe in things like momentum.

No, I don't believe they lost the last 2 games because of momentum.

Even old school baseball types can tell you momentum is that day’s starting pitcher. Lou could definitely have gone with other options in that first game but we don’t know that the outcome would have been any different. There have been plenty of times that Marmol has come in created his own jams and pitched out of them.

 People also forget all the moves Lou makes that end up working and result in a win. Sometimes moves work, sometimes they don’t, it’s up to the players to execute ultimately.

We don't know that.

I believe in momentum like that. If the Cubs, who had an outstanding outing from Rich Harden that night, had won that game, I believe they’d have won at least one of the next two games, winning the series, instead of getting swept.

When they lost that game, I believe the team got completely deflated. It’s certainly your right not to believe in such things. I do.

Need to go

1. Lou
2. Jim
3. Both

Is Both a scout or something?
Both as in

Both Lou and Jim need to go

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, OK.
Glad that was cleared up.
we definitely need to improve our scouting department
so

First get rid of Lou
Then git rid of Jim
Then find out where they went and get rid of them again?

"I say we kill him!"

“I say we hang him!”

“I say we hang him then we kill him!”

Put Soriano on waivers.

Right now.

And cross your fingers that some contender is dumb enough to take the contract. Do it. Otherwise, Ricketts inherits a mess that hampers our payroll for years.

LIKELY. ALREADY. DONE.

AHGGHGHHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

One down, 9 to go.

I might need to create that fanpost yet . . . .

Sigh...I think it's time to get off the computer and get my daughter away from the TV.
Not yet - I just published the rant
Nice job - almost missed it!
But if we say it enough, it'll become true!

: : : commence placing fingers in ears and stamping loudly : : :

hey man

I can see the vein in the side of your head pulsing…

oxygen...need oxygen...
what an interesting idea....
If Lou stays until 2010

That gives Ryno a full year to manage at AAA, prior to being brought up to replace Tram as Bench coach when Brenly takes over the team in 2011. Ryno learns from BB, with Tram at 3rd base (he is a great coach, just not a manager) with Von Joshua still around since I’m sure most of the AAA guys he worked with will be on the team. I think that would be an ideal way to get Ryno into the big seat, assuming he wants to take it and is in anyway capable of it.

This is all conjecture, of course, and not necessarily what I want to happen.

Or...

… bring in Ryno as a major league coach next year.

Remember where you heard this first.

(Brenly will NEVER manage the Cubs.)

Mark the tape!

Probably not, but the n-word has a way of biting one on the tuckus.

Managing the Chicago Cubs takes a lot of work

in much the same way that managing the Yankees and Red Sox is a lot of work. Dealing with expectations and pressure, and in the case of the Cubs having to somehow put players with holes in their games into positions where they can succeed.

This is not to excuse Lou one bit. Rather it’s evidence that a lively (read: younger) man would be better for the job. Not just physically younger but mentally in shape and sharper.

When Lou implied that the job was tougher than he anticipated, I was mad at him for making excuses. But now I think he might have been saying “I’m too old for this”. Either way, I don’t think he should come back next year.

Obviously the outrageous contracts prohibit dumping Soriano, Bradley, or insert-overripe-veteran-here. So maybe the way to affect change in a more modest fashion would be to buy out Sweet Lou.

Boston

Wouldn’t The Green Monster be a beautiful backdrop for Soriano’s little hop?

Yeah, I'm sure they'd bench Jason Bay.
Depending on what Jason Bay wants contract-wise

Soriano’s remaning payout might be palatable to John Henry and Theo.

Doubt it.

If they weren’t willing to put up with Manny, why would they want Soriano?

Soriano doesn't flat-out quit like Manny did

Say what you will about the bunny hop and the constant Ks on pitches low and away, but Soriano gives you effort.

Yeah, I guess.

But I think Red Sox management is a little too savvy to take on Alfonso’s contract.

That I'll agree with

Maybe if Dan Duquette was still on the job they’d do it.

If jogging to the corner to pick up a ball is effort

Well.. then… you are correct.

While Manny would just ask the ball girl to get it.
Soriano also doesn't hit like Manny
I was just being silly

Boston has been very busy trading, releasing and claiming players recently. Jason Bay will command a big contract.

Boston is desperate, thanks to NY's nice little run.

But not that desperate.

Maybe add a poll, Al?

If you do, perhaps include an “undecided” option because that’s kinda where I’m at.

I'd really be curious how it comes out.

I know I for one was very afraid to come out and say that I don’t totally hate Lou and I’m wondering if there are others out there as well. I’d probably answer undecided although I am leaning towards keeping him. I may get angry at him and question his moves, but not necessarily enough to warrant firing him.

Remember when many were crying out to get rid of Lee a few months back?

I'd like to see lou back...

… only if there is some plan for beyond 2010, and he is helping with the transition.

I'll add a poll.

Thanks.

I voted unsure

I would take the 2007-08 model but not the 09 version

Yeah, that's where my vote went, too.

There’s still 1/4 of the season left.

OT Cubs vs Phillies on MLB network

from 1969 just starting…. Fergie is pitching… Could be good watching… Not sure of the date yet.

Psst...see the Fanshot bar.
I guess I am blind

don’t see a fanpost… Help

Well, I said Fanshot...

…but, you’re right, it is a Fanpost.

Here.

duh

now I see it… Thank you sir

Tony Kubek is interviewing Leo

He is complaining about the writers lol… Says they should be more like the fans.

Careful what you wish for, Leo

Now the fans are worse than the writers! LOL

Lou said what you would expect him to say with 42 games to go

and new owners stepping in after the season. Basically Lou is saying, “I am here to do my job, but if you want to buy me out (after the season), I am all ears.”

I have been surprised by some of the things Lou has said in assessing the team’s performance lately. He seems to be making a lot of excuses, including injuries, lack of clutch hitting, etc… Well I seem to recall that Lou emphatically stated at the beginning of the season that this was the team that HE wanted. Time for Lou to shoulder blame too. Accountability starts at the top. Man up Lou.

the size of the ballpark

that was my favorite. He actually tried to use the size of the freaking ballpark as an excuse.

Lou may want to leave

He’s been around long enough to know with year left on a contract you don’t give management any leverage. I’ve liked Lou, despite some of his maddening traits. However, I echo those that say he looks to be disinterested. And, it will take a different manager, or a different Lou to make a difference for next year. He’s 66 I think, I don’t know if he wants to change that much. He must have said that to engineer a buyout if he decides to quit.

"If he's going to return in 2010, he'd better start getting off his butt "

Throwing fits and getting thrown out of games is not managing to me. It’s the same Lou, the players simply haven’t produced this year.

yeah

lou is the only manager in the history of baseball to get ejected.. i mean the jerk got ejected twice this year on legitimate beefs!

"Getting off his butt"

… wasn’t intended to mean “get ejected” or “throw fits”. I meant simply to wake up and make the right moves in games, rather than look like he’s asleep or not caring or both.

I hope change is made

with the new ownership. There is to much of Lou in the 07 and 08 playoff debacles.
Time to let Tram have another shot at managing.

The real problem to me

is Jim Hendry. If he’s not fired, I’m going to have a real hard time watching this team next year.

I completely agree...

…and it will be tough to know the guy who has created a bit of a mess, is still hanging around.

I wouldn't put too much...

…thought into what Lou or anyone else says at this point. Things can change quickly, and as I have said many times, it is my opinion that the manager issue is minor compared to other areas that need to be fixed in the organization.

All of this depends on Ricketts and the timing of his plans to hire someone to run the entire baseball operations (which I believe he will do). Whether he does that right after he takes over, or waits a bit remains to be seen. I would be surprised if he doesn’t have names in mind, and it could be the guy he wants is under contract right now with someone else. If that guy comes in quickly, he may keep both Hendry and Piniella onboard for a year to evaluate, or he may clean house completely, we just don’t know.

In the end, I would expect a new direction for the baseball operations to be no more than one year away. I don’t see Hendry serving out his contract as GM, and it’s possible he isn’t in that role in 2010. Bottom line here, if Hendry’s contract was up after this year, he would have no chance of surviving the ownership change for more than 5 minutes.

I guess it’s appropriate when you think about it. The Cubs are stuck with some bad player contracts, so why wouldn’t they also be stuck with the GM (3 more years) who signed them?

I have to admit...

I’ve been wondering if Lou will or shoud be back next year. I like him well enough and he still has those flashes of brilliance (the afore- mentioned Marshall in left field). But he appears to be somewhat adrift this year.

According to one of the workers at a local coffee place I go to, “Lou’s an awesome dude, but he’s getting OLD.” Which I took to mean that the young man thinks Lou should retire. According to one of my sports loving co-workers “Lou doesn’t get after his players enough. He’s turning into Dusty Baker.” He went on to say they should the Sandberg a shot or if they want him to get some more seasoning, try Bob Brenley.

I suspect that while Lou’s time maybe over, he may stay until his contract ends. Unless he decides to ask for his release or the new ownership buys him out. And who knows, maybe next year with some GOOD team changes in place, Lou will go leave a winner.

Poll added to this post.
Al is da bomb dot com

Instead of big leaguing us and acting like the big CEO locked in his golden tower, he actively hobnobs and hangs with the hoi polloi. Hope that Tom Ricketts takes a lesson and makes himself as accessible as Our Al.

Lou, Jim, Crane

all back next year.

Wanna bet $20 towards Project 3000?
what the hell

I’m losing my Gregg bet.

Sure. $20 says that all three are back for at least 50% of the 2010 season.

Lou

is a horrible strategical manager. Even in 2008 when I thought he did a good job with the players and the media and tempering expectations I could not understand why Marmol threw every night, Howry was consistently used in the 7th inning, why Derrek Lee never got a day off, how he completely mishandled Fukudome’s sleep, etc.

This year he’s been worse. That Aaron Miles is ever in a game says that much – and the bullpen is still as poorly managed as ever (Sean. Marshall. can. face. righties. kthxbye). Plus, he just seems disinterested and generally lacking the fire that he is supposedly known for. The mellow approach worked last year when we were good. Now that we’re underperforming, sure would be nice to see him get under the skin of Soriano, et. al.

I don’t blame Lou for the players failing, but I sure as heck don’t think he’s done anything to help.

I went with yes to keep him and here's why.

You can’t change 100 years of ineptiitude in 2 season or even 3 or 4. That has been the Cubs problem all along. That constant cycle of rebuilding and here it is…new general manager-3yrs. later a new field manager-1 or 2 yrs later new general manager-repeat. You need to give the management time to turn things around.

I'm fine with keeping Lou

It’s strange that over the course of one year, many posters and fans are now using the same language they used for Dusty Baker.

Hendry is the architect of this disaster. He needs to go. I don’t care what Pinella did or did not say in the makeup of this team. The buck stops with him.

Fully agree Sal

But it’s Piniella’s decision to send Miles and Soriano out there…

Yep, there no excuse for that.

Imagine if Hendry was the GM for the Mets or the Yankees. There would be no firing. He would be drawn and quartered.

That could be another interesting topic of discussion here:

You want Hendry back? Who’d you suggest as a replacement? Etc.

At this point

I’ll take one of the beer vendors.

He needs to bench Soriano yesterday.
Agreed.

I really think Soriano should’ve been benched for this entire Dodgers series. Bring him back at Wrigley vs. the Nats.

YES AND THAT

Should have occured over a month ago…..He is LAZY……No other way to put it.

He has to play the players he is given.

Do you really believe anyone else on this roster playing every day over Soriano would have made this team a first place team? Soriano has had a down year and Lou hasn’t had much choice but to play him and hope he starts to regress to his career averages. If Fox or Fuld had been playing left every day this team would not be ahead of the Cardinals. Miles has sucked but he’s a back-up and hasn’t had a significant impact on the team one way or the other. Whatever Miles role has been it has been minimal and any other back-up wouldn’t have made this team a great deal better.

Well said...

lets hope the Ricketts understand the real issues with club and the history behind how they got to this point.

frankly, if Lou goes and Hendry stays, it will be a damn shame if Hendry is allowed to hire his third manager considering the overall circumstances

Because Lou is using the same language as Dusty...

Excuses about temperatures, injuries, altitude, and the size of ballparks.

maybe instead of meaning

that Lou’s bad, that means that Dusty wasn’t.

what?

Ummm, no I have nothing to say to that, except, I’m assuming you’re just trying to be argumentative

Yeah...

That’s it…

I don't like...

…the excuse talk either, but it isn’t just Lou.

If you ever listen to quotes from Hendry, he lays out the BS just as well and he is the leader of the baseball organization.

If I hear one more time how sometimes players don’t produce in the first year of a new contract (ala Moises Alou), I am going to puke. Hendry can talk out of both sides of his mouth with the best of em, and it’s one of the reasons he sold kenney on extending him for 4 years.

Dusty was/is one of the worst-ever baseball managers

Period, exclamation point, end of story.

THATS RIGHT......

It is almost like LOU watched some old WGN sports cast . Well Dusty said this and that . Excuse after excuse …..Things gotta change in 2010,,,,

but...

can you say the signings the last couple of years are of a long-term strategy? I mean Soriano for 8 years? Sure it’s a long time, but was it logical? We can only hope 2009 is an off year for him, otherwise we have a long 3 years ahead of us.
Dempster: Was that a long-term logical signing? TBD
Zambrano: I love his fire, nobody on this team is there to win more than big Z. Call his antic childish but he is there to win.

I'm not talking about players.

I’m talking about management.

what you have...

…is a mess, and there will be some short term pain to clean it up. This is why I would prefer an immediate change in GM, so they can get to work on cleaning up.

there is a lot of money tied up already for 2010, and many of the pieces are immovable objects unless you burn considerable dollars to make palitable for the other club.

The core players will be here again in 2010. That is, unless Ricketts wants to add significant dollars as another band aid approach.

I'm always leery as to the impact a manager has

It isn’t like football or basketball or hockey where coaches have their own specific “systems” or “schemes” to implement.

I mean, Lou hasn’t been perfect, but it isn’t his fault that Aramis’s shoulder fell out or guys don’t hit with runners on or Kevin Gregg doesn’t have an out pitch.

I usually am too, but Lou has made some moves this season

in fact, quite a few of them that were just so head scratchingly stupid, they obviously changed the game.

I am disappointed...

I really feel his best effective days are over.

Nice job (sans the Playoffs) in 2007, 2008

I just do not think he is the right guy, nor has the energy anymore. Losing does that to you as well as the mindset of many of today’s young players – including the multi-millionaires.

The only way rich players get motivated it seems, is with lack of P.T.

The only thing to me a little different than Dusty now, is he was forced to play young guys more.

There ARE seniors that are having success this year: TLR (every year), Bobby Cox, Jim Leyland – but Lou just would rather be sleeping or on the golf course it seems.

Once this disaster of a season is over...

Who’s to say Lou won’t change his mind? And at that point, the choice of him coming back may be out of his hands. It’s possible Ricketts will want to go in another direction.

I don't blame him for wanting to come back

Who wouldn’t love a job that pays you millions of dollars to doze and daydream for three or four hours a day.

That said, I was a fan of Lou’s until this season. His somnambulant management this year has me as mystified as everyone else.

+1 for the erudite language today

“Gonfalon”, “somnambulant”…William F. Buckley would be proud.

That reminds me of the somnambulist in the Cabinet of Dr. Caligari

No problem with Piniella

Coincidence that Lou says he intends to be back next year, to finish his contract, right after the team sale was formalized. I still think there is a chance of his contract being bought out at the end of this season, but much less convinced of that possibility than I was before.

Still think Lou is one of the best managers the Cubs have had and don’t think it would be easy to replace him. Whatever the differences between this season and the previous two don’t add-up to anything.

That Broxton can really throw.

They should still get rid of him

Youth is needed in that dugout. Take a chance.

Cubs don't suck because of Sweet Lou

But alas, ignorant Cub fans love to go on violent mood swings when it comes to the manager.

The Cubs haven’t been the same since the 2008 playoffs because of a lot of reasons. Too many older ballplayers, an awful payroll situation, a minor league system that only craps out aging journeyman types when it comes to position players…

What people failed to understand in 2008 was that SO VERY MANY Cub players had great years AND stayed healthy. The window to win a World Series closed in 2008. Now a full blown rebuilding job is in order.

If Lou wants to come back an endure a rebuilding process, then that is up to him.

LOU RETIRES......

Goes back to Tampa and does whatever . The 2009 disaster has to be put behind us . Maybe when we meet in Mesa there will be a fresh face in the dugout . Lets hope so …

I am in favor of more Lou

Especially since I have not heard a replacement suggestion that would be an improvement. It would be different if we had Joe Torre or even, shudder, Tony LaRussa interested in this job. But the names thrown around here — Trammel, Brenly, Sandberg — would not be an improvement, and would put us further in the weeds.

In a year, we would be lamenting the fact that we rode Lou out of town on a rail — just as those who wanted to see this team retooled after the playoff failures the last two years regret losing that 2008 offensive machine.

I admit that Lou has seemed too patient sometimes with the usual player “suspects”, but I also think that we are going nowhere if most of those guys don’t deliver. I love Sam Fuld, but if he will not replace the production of Soriano of 2008. I think that Lou was correct in believing that the odds were higher of that guy coming back, at least for hot streaks, than of Sam Fuld providing that much offense.

Good point

Good point about Soriano. How he could have been the player of the month in April of this year and then struggle to this degree is strange. I see Fuld as a potential replacement for Reed Johnson. The idea stems from going on the cheap; otherwise I like Johnson.

This doesn't thrill me but

I’ll wait and see what happens with new ownership.

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