So says Gordon Wittenmyer in the Sun-Times:
Piniella's status had been a matter of public speculation since June, when he declined to give direct answers to repeated media questions about his 2010 intentions. He had left his two most recent managing jobs, in Seattle and Tampa Bay, on his own terms with time left on those contracts.
Piniella ended the speculation Friday: "I'm planning to come back next year," he said before the Cubs lost to the Dodgers 2-1 in Los Angeles.
Now. I was not a Lou fan before he was hired. He did an outstanding job in 2007 and 2008, but has seemed somnolent and distracted this year. If he's going to return in 2010, he'd better start getting off his butt and managing the Cubs the way he did the last two years.
Also, just because Lou says he's "planning" on coming back does not preclude management from buying out his extension and making a change. I'm not quite sure how I feel right now. Do we get the 2007-08 Lou next year? If so, keep him. If we get the 2009 version, I could do without him.
Discuss.
0 recs | 202 comments
Gee that made my day
Another season of craptastic managing. I hope this is just cover because if he said otherwise now , he would look worse than he does and that is hard. Go home to Florida and enjoy your family because " what can I do" is not the response of a good manager whose team just keeps finding new ways to lose.
Doggie Stalker - August 22, 2009
I agree
Not sure why he seems so disinterested this year but you can tell the difference.
LT - August 22, 2009
maybe it is because Hendry got rid of all of the good players and replaced them with mediocre-at-best subs?
Chanman25 - August 22, 2009
All the good players?
Really, man?
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
DeRosa > Miles and Fontenot combined
Wood > Gregg
And all that for Milton Bradley who has been nothing but a train wreck except for this month
Chanman25 - August 22, 2009
Fair enough, i won't argue those two examples...
… even if you aren’t telling the whole story (Wood’s bad year and contract)…
But Wood and DeRo did not encompass ALL the good players from last year.
And it has been argued that it was Lou himself that wanted Bradley, or a player of his type at least.
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
Even if the moves were made from salary reasons, there's no question that this year's team is less talented.
DeRo has been replaced by Miles and Baker- major downgrade
Wood’s been replaced by Gregg – major downgrade
Soto replaced by fatter ineffective version of himself – major downgrade
Edmonds has been replaced by Bradley – slight upgrade.
Marquis has been replaced by Wells – upgrade
Cotts has been replaced by Grabow – major upgrade, but made too late
Wuertz/Howry replaced by Heilman/Guzman – big upgrade.
So on paper, the roster moves made by Hendry have essentially been a wash. The difference is that this year, we’ve had to deal with many more injuries. That’s not Lou’s fault.
Poloplaya14 - August 22, 2009
Well...
… 2 of those examples of downgrades are questionable in the greater scheme of things… Baker is showing big potential and Wood hasn’t exactly been Mariano Rivera this season. And the ‘major downgrade’ that is Soto getting fatter can’t really be blamed on Lou or Hendry, and thus isn’t really relevant to this Lou and Hendry based discussion.
I’d agree with the “wash on paper”, i suppose (although you didn’t take in to consideration contracts or age) … and the “less talented”, well, maybe… but you didn’t mention Bradley anywhere, and the dude is clearly showing over the last month plus that he brings some talent to the plate, and has absolutely been bringing talent to right field.
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
Nevermind, you mentioned Bradley.
I’m so hungover i can’t even read… jeeze. Time to kick this with a smoothie, some Excedrin, and a sweaty run. Peace.
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
Well, LAST month AND this month.
daver - August 22, 2009
All the Good Players
I’m sure this is a reference to Nobel Prize Winner and all-around Schweitzerian humanitairian Mark DeRosa, who in spite of his Todd Walker-esque production and absolute pants-crapping in the 2 straight playoffs at critical moments, has somehow been elevated to sainthood.
Must be the stubble on his face. And all of those nebulous qualities like “chemsitry” and “heart” which didn’t amount to piddly spit in the postseason.
Anyway I thought I would enlighten all of the outsized Dero HeRo worshippers by pointing out his line with the Cardinals:
35 Games
8 HR
15 RBI
.226/297/.444 (OPS=.741)
Hell, for the season, Derosa’s at .256/.328/.453 in 402 at-bats. That’s what fans are pining for? A statistcally scant improvement over Mike Fontenot? Really?
Other than you’ve got Kerry Wood, who’s making a run at leading the AL in blown saves, and Henry Blanco, a backup catcher.
Try adopting some perspective. The godawful seasons put up by Soriano and Soto, and the prolonged absence of Aramis Ramirez have what hurt this team. If those first two chumps put up anywhere NEAR the numbers they did last year, this team is in the thick of it, with or without the legendary Mark DeRosa.
Mike D. - August 22, 2009
Wow..If NBF is around today, he is going to love your post!
JB 23 - August 22, 2009 via mobile
I'm here now and i love it. Rec'd.
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
for reals?
Andrew, are you in fact our beloved incompetent former umpire?
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
No, i'm just tired of...
… everyone pretending we’d be on pace for 100 wins if we just had Wood and DeRo (beloved and good as they both were for the Cubs).
… everyone acting as though the Bradley acquisition was what brought this team down when he’s pretty much playing to his career norms and guys like Sori and Soto, who were here last year, are tanking, and guys like Z and Rami have been hurt.
…. everyone making grand sweeping statements like “Hendry got rid of all of the good players and replaced them with mediocre-at-best subs” and this just being accepted as fact.
The fact is, it wasn’t the offseason moves that got the team where they are today… even with DeRo and Wood and Blanco, this team would be up a creek with the performance we’ve seen from a lot of the guys who were here both this year and last.
Plus, any opinion by Mike D has to carry some weight, right?
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
He gets respect.
Our cash and our jewelry is what he expects.
Goodie1969 - August 22, 2009
Mike Ditka is now a rapper?
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
ILL
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
No sleep til brooklyn
BleedsbluinMI - August 22, 2009
Thats fine
DeRosa has had wrist and back injuries with the Cards, yet still this day he has driven in over 60 runs and scored over 60 runs with 21 homeruns. Not bad, not great, but his numbers I would take over Fontenot/Bradley and Miles all together.
Grockcubs - August 22, 2009
For sure, nobody is debating that.
He’s better at 2B than what we’ve fielded this year.
He wouldn’t have won us the 7 extra games we’d need to be leading the division though.
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
DeRosa is also a much worse fielder at 2nd and would most likely have accounted for more runs given up.
He’s only been significantly worse defensively than Fontenot or Baker either one.
Acapulco Taco Pie - August 22, 2009
And who is to say those injuries wouldn't have happened in Chicago as well?
Dude isn’t young anymore.
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
Agree to both
Grockcubs - August 22, 2009
turn it green!
drewishdrewid - August 22, 2009
Thanks for doing this
I agree 100%, but I doubt it will change anyone’s mind.
I was happy they traded DeRosa, because it was evidence that Hendry was finally selling high on someone.
Curtain Jerker - August 22, 2009
Trading DeRosa is debateable...
But replacing him with Miles and Fontenot is not. Not having a backup 3rd baseman on the roster is another byproduct of trading DeRosa.
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
Pants crapping?
He went 4 for 8 with 4 RBI and a HR in the first 2 games in last year’s NLDS… not exactly “pants crapping”. He’s the one guy who actually produced in the playoffs.
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
Yes, pants-crapping.
I’d say Zambrano also produced in Game 2, but for the suddenly-inept infield defense behind him, the most egregious example being the one hopper hit DIRECTLY AT DeRosa which, had he started the double play that a big-league second baseman (and so-called “clubhouse leader”) on a 97-win team with pennant aspirations is expected to make in that particularly critical situation, he picks up his team by leaving the Dodgers scoreless in the inning. Instead, he got caught flat-footed (must have been dreaming about the World Series parade route), couldn’t handle the ball, a run scored, the floodgates opened and the game, and the season, were effectively over.
As if not satisfied by putting the kabosh on the season in Game 2, he came up in Game 3 with a chance to drive home Geo Soto, who had led off the 4th inning with a double in a 2-0 game and was at thir d base with one out. Instead, our Galactic Superhero hit the ball right at the third baseman, the Cubs failed to threaten again; and the season was now officially over.
This of course was 1 year after he came up, also in Game 3, when that fat turd Livian Hernandez was nibbling around the plate all day, with the bases loaded and only 1 out in a 3-1 game in the 5th inning, and apparently cheered on by his 40,000 fanboys to do something heroic rather than leave the bat on his shoulder while that tomato can walked in a run, instead decided to swing at a ball at his shoetops, rolling into an absolutely nut-crunching double play. Once again, that was pretty much the Cubs’ last hope.
I don’t know how many chances this guy expected to get but for all the love this guy got, the least he could do was live up to his reputation when it was absolutely critical instead of turtling up and taking the wind out of his team’s sails. It’s nice he went 4-8 in the first two games at Wrigley, but I think I’m perfectly within my rights to characterize those other plays as “pants-crapping”.
Mike D. - August 22, 2009
And here I thought me and Lou were the only ones to remember this…
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
Ahhh Game 2 last year...
The inning where I believe the entire infield committed some kind of error or gaffe, yet you single out DeRosa to further validate your shaky argument. He’s the only guy who produces in the playoffs last year, and you single him out. Nice.
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
I'm Not Singling Him Out
You took umbrage at my characterizing Mr. Dreamboat as having crapped his pants. I provided examples from exactly half of the playoff games he ever played with the Cubs wherein I felt the shoe fit. I’d say Theriot, Ramriez and Lee also crapped their pants in Game 2. There. Feel better?
The point wasn’t in absolving others; the point was that the tendency of people to overvalue Mark DeRosa is probably one of the more embarassing aspects of being a Cubs fan in a lifetime full of them.
Mike D. - August 22, 2009
As embarrassing as the Shane Victorino incident?
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
Meh
I’ve long been embarassed by the Trixiemale, sunglasses-in- the shirt, doesn’t-know-the-score meatball frat boy atmosphere which has ruined the bleacher experence in my opinion.
That said, I thought the reaction to that whole episode was laughable. Guys used to dump beers on players quite a bit in the 80’s. If anyone has video of the first official night game at Wrigley (8/9/88 vs. Mets) you’ll see Dykstra get dumped when he goes to the wall on a ball hit by (I think) Palmeiro and the announcers (Scully and Gariagiola IIRC—it was on NBC even though it was a weeknight game) didn’t make a big deal out of it. Dykstra in fact got to what amounted to a half-barrel of beer getting dumped on him in hid career, I’m pretty sure.
Mike D. - August 22, 2009
BLou?
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
Arguably the team MVP...
In each of his years here, un-matched versatility (from anyone else on this roster), and great attitude. Add to that you replace him with Mike Fontenot and Aaron Miles, yeah I’m shocked at why some people were a bit miffed at that.
Embarrassing is the result of the last two playoff appearances, the Victorino incident, the Howry attack incident. Showing appreciation for a player you genuinely like is anything but embarrassing.
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
I'd Say That's Extremely Arguable
He had two of his finest seasons in his career while a member of the Cubs, but if you think this 97 win juggernaut misses the playoffs without him last year, you cannot be helped.
Mike D. - August 22, 2009
Right...
Because that’s exactly what I said. He was a piece of the puzzle, nothing more, nothing less. This year Hendry and Lou tried to smash a bunch of square pegs into rounds holes and nothing fits right. That’s why that so called “juggernaut” is nothing more than a mediocre to bad team this year.
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
I'm fine with this.....
Chanman25 - August 22, 2009
There is 42 games left
If after the season he says the same thing, it will be different.
Madison Cub Fan - August 22, 2009
And again, just because he wants to return...
… doesn’t mean Jim Hendry or Crane Kenney or Tom Ricketts won’t tell him to head on home.
I agree, the 42 games remaining have a lot to do with Lou’s future.
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
And Hendry and Kenney may have no say in the matter, anyway.
Shanghai Badger - August 22, 2009
Why would the next 42 games mean more than the entire body of work as a Cubs manager?
It seems silly to suggest that Lou has somehow become a different manager this year than he was in 07 or 08. He’s the same guy, the talent just hasn’t performed for him. At worst he is going to win the division 2 out of 3 years, not bad for a Cubs manager.
Is he supposed to win the division every year and be fired if he doesn’t? How much better do you think any manager would have made this team this year? Do you believe any manager could have made this team 4 or 5 wins better? Lou has had more success as a Cubs manager over the last 2 2/3 seasons than any manager in the last 100 years.
It would be a shame to see him ran out of town because of his best hitter being injured and 4 or 5 other players under-performing. Of course, the only opinions that matter on Lou are the ones of new ownership and whomever they bring in to run the organization. It’s pretty clear Hendry is looking at the big picture and isn’t going to turn on Lou if he sticks around.
Acapulco Taco Pie - August 22, 2009
Has he ever really been put to the test...
Besides the rough patch in early ‘07, has he ever shown he can outmanage someone like TLR? In pressure situations, he’s made bad decisions and his team has failed (pulling Z early in Game 1 in ’07, playing Dome twice in the NLDS last year after struggling mightily.)
Would any manager have made this team 4 or 5 wins better? Who knows. But I’m damn sure another manager wouldn’t have continued to run Soriano out there for weeks at a time struggling as bad as he is, and kept him at leadoff for as long as Lou did.
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
he outmanaged
TLR at least once last year.
drewishdrewid - August 22, 2009
Post...
Said game and situation.
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
So, who on this roster should Lou have played everyday instead of Soriano?
It’s not Lou’s fault that Soriano, Soto and Fontenot have all performed below expectations and it’s not his fault Aramis, the team’s best hitter, has been hurt most of the year. The point would be a manager can’t make players better. I think managing a team to 97 wins says a lot more about a guy’s ability to manage than 6 playoff games.
Since you mentioned playoffs, did you happen to notice all of the defensive miscues in game 2 of the 08 playoffs and the lack of offensive production by the players in all 3 games? Do you really think the difference in the Dodgers series was Fukudome? Lou put’s guys into position to succeed and if they fail it is on them.
Acapulco Taco Pie - August 22, 2009
The real test for any manager is a 162 game season and Lou has done well above average in that regard.
Acapulco Taco Pie - August 22, 2009
What exactly
are we getting out of him for $4m/year? He does not seem to hold players accountable. He seems repeatedly way behind the curve on things like getting Soriano out of the leadoff spot. His in-game decision making has generally been bad (recent example such as leaving Marmol in to face lefty with bases loaded, PHing Aaron Miles, etc.).
The evidence seems clear that he is both disinterested and ineffective. Time for both parties to move on.
paulucla - August 22, 2009
He sounds just like Dusty Baker when you put it that way.
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
I'm just bitter
for when he got annoyed with me on the street last week. haha
paulucla - August 22, 2009
I don't blame you for that!
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
What exactly happened?
daver - August 22, 2009
I arrived in Chicago
for my annual trip and was walking downtown from the El to my hotel when I ran into Lou walking with a friend. I asked him for a quick picture, he got annoyed and said “hurry up, I gotta go” and then his friend jacked up the picture. Kinda fits right into the season, I suppose.
paulucla - August 22, 2009
That's crappy
I had my picture taken with Dusty. He even took out his toothpick.
bigz38fan - August 22, 2009
maybe
he actually had something he had to go do. They do have lives outside of baseball.
drewishdrewid - August 22, 2009
Yes, but -
That is part of the package. Piniella doesn’t owe us a picture, but he owes civility as long as he is met with the same civility.
Shanghai Badger - August 22, 2009
Look...
How do you eat a Whopper? You eat it one bite at a time!
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
doesn't mean
he has to be an ass about it. It only takes a few seconds to take a picture.
bigz38fan - August 22, 2009
AND AFTER ALL...
Don’t the fans pay his inflated salary ?
cubs north - August 22, 2009
It actually didn't
bother me that much. I was mostly annoyed that his friend couldn’t follow simple iphone picture instructions. Heh.
It was 2pm on a 7pm game day so he was clearly on his way to the ballpark. I mean, this is who the guy is, none of us should be surprised.
I’m not much of a celeb fanboy. Normally, I wouldn’t have said anything to him but it was so ironic that I had just arrived that I had to try to get a picture.
In hindsight, the night before was when he left Marmol in to face Howard instead of bringing in Grabow so I should have made a smart ass remark about that.
paulucla - August 22, 2009
LOL- that story is so Lou.
Thanks!
daver - August 22, 2009
I don't mind lou.
He has just managed so poorly this year. He needs to step up his game.
lexmarklover - August 22, 2009
Agree
I think that is a good point. I am a Lou fan but he did manage poorly this season.
wccubfan - August 22, 2009
It could just be that he's experienced enough to know that saying anything but...
…what he did would start a firestorm of speculation, etc., and he doesn’t want to deal with it.
At the same time, I have a nervous feeling that, due to the oft-mentioned bad contracts, etc., we might be watching a rerun of all of this next season. I hope I’m wrong but…
bluekoolaide - August 22, 2009
Holding out hope that somebody (insert your own ideas) will be brought in to learn...
… under Lou for the last season of his duties. A manager in waiting, if you will. Somebody who, over the season, could slowly take on more responsibility and be fully ready to manage come end of next year.
To me, it doesn’t seem that Lou’s lost his mind or anything. He’s still making the occasional shrewd move (putting Sean Marshall in left field vs. the cards comes to mind) and undoubtedly has plenty of knowledge to pass along. He seems to lack energy this year. A younger dude with some fire, learning from Lou, may be just what this team needs.
Ideas?
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
Interesting thought
I’d guess Trammell would be a possibility- he’s been there a few years now and knows the players and the farm system (and the challenges of working with the Cubs). Of course, there is always the possibility that Ryno could be elevated to Chicago as a bench coach and spend a year or two at Lou’s knee in preparation for handing over the reigns.
tommy veryzer - August 22, 2009
My biggest fear with Ryno...
… is something SWL brought up the other day. Do you want to hire somebody who’s so beloved he may be unfireable? I know Detroit did it to Trammell, but still… rough.
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
My fear about Sandberg
Is something that Bruce Miles mentioned in his blog. Apparently, Sandberg’s been criticized for being too much of a small ball manager, obsessed with bunting.
Been there, done that with Don Baylor. Don’t want to go back to it.
Shanghai Badger - August 22, 2009
I don't want to go back to that either.
It may be that Sandberg is doing that because he is managing minor leaguers and wants to teach them that skill. That would be a very useful thing for a Double-A manager to do.
You could have said the same thing about the White Sox and Ozzie Guillen. Someday they’ll have to fire him, too. Obviously, he wasn’t as good a player as Sandberg and Trammell, but he was just as beloved by Sox fans.
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
Balance
I have a horrible memory so I don’t remember Baylor ball, but isn’t balance a good thing. To criticize Sandberg for playing too much small ball is absurd. Fundamentals are preached in the minors or at least should be. They are still learning to play the game right while in the minors. Ryno hit plenty of long balls, but he could also lay down a bunt and sacrifice. If you have HR power, then the HR will come. If you try to only hit HR, then you end up hitting a weak dribbler to the 2nd baseman.4-6-3 DP
bigz38fan - August 22, 2009
I don't know if it's absurd or not
I’m not doing the criticizing, as I haven’t seen it.
But the dumbest strategy I remember being consistently employed during the Baker era was a bunt following a lead-off double in the first inning. Wind blowing in, out, cross. . . didn’t matter.
Shanghai Badger - August 22, 2009
Bring Back Jim Riggleman
I distinctly remember him telling the press “Taking the bat out of a hitter’s hand destroys their confidence”. Trouble was, we’d see Brant Brown or Glenallen Hill whiff after the leadoff double, followed by a first-pitch popup and then a weak grounder.
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
Rigs was always prepared, though
He just had crap teams.
Shanghai Badger - August 22, 2009
aaron miles tries to hit HRs?
jesus christos - August 22, 2009
Always assumed
I assumed when Trammel was hired he was there to learn from Lou with the intentions of taking over one day.
bigz38fan - August 22, 2009
Don't think so.
I think he was simply put in place as an “assistant manager” who had previous experience, nothing more.
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
Okay
bigz38fan - August 22, 2009
Fine with me.
He’ll deserve to be here when they raise the gonfalon next year.
katie casey - August 22, 2009
gonfalon?
daver - August 22, 2009
gon⋅fa⋅lon
I think Katie Casey is implying Lou deserves to be here when a pennant is raised.. as in we’ll win a World Series this year, there will be a ceremony next year to display the gonfalon at Wrigley
Which makes no sense, as i’d bet Lou would have retired if he’d gotten another ring this year. Purely speculation, but this is about as far fetched as it gets either way.
Drugs are bad, guys. Mmmmmkay?
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
Hm, interesting. Thanks.
daver - August 22, 2009
Thanks Mr. Mackey
At first I thought “gonfalon” = god-awful + woebegon.
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
It's from the Tinker to Evers to Chance poem.
These are the saddest of possible words:
“Tinker to Evers to Chance.”
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
Making a Giant hit into a double-
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
“Tinker to Evers to Chance.”
katie casey - August 22, 2009
Oh, well in that case, how could i have missed it?
Shame on me.
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
I feel like a nimnul.....
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
I wouldn't have known what it was either if there wasn't a footnote in my book.
It’s just such a fun word I like to use it whenever possible.
katie casey - August 22, 2009
I like to use the word "execrable."
People often think I’m making it up.
It’s come in handy lately with the way the Cubs have been playing.
Goodie1969 - August 22, 2009
Wow, you're schoolin' me here.
daver - August 22, 2009
I am only implying the pennant. WS would be icing on the cake.
katie casey - August 22, 2009
Hey, Katie... you are already dropping knowledge enough on us.
Did you just KNOW the word gonfalon? My spell check isn’t even down with that ish… seems italian!
You are clearly wiser than I, so if you see a pennant in the near future, who am i to argue? :-)
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
Relationship
What kind of baseball relationship to Lou and Jim have? Do they get along? I’m curious. Obviously, Jim has the final decision, but did Lou have any input into which players were brought in or let go in the off season? If not, is that the reason for Lou’s mood? Did Lou prefer Ibanez/Abreu over Bradley, but did Jim go after Bradley without conferring with Lou first?
I’m just trying to get a feel for what is really going on.
Looking across town, Ozzie and Kenny appear to have a good GM/Manager relationship. They both have input regarding the players, but ultimately Kenny makes the final decision.
bigz38fan - August 22, 2009
They have one thing in common
They’re both ineffective at their jobs, and have failed miserably in ‘09. If Lou continues his late-inning, inexplicable moves he should be relieved for next year. He singlehandedly lost Thursday night’s game by PH Miles for Gorzy who was in a groove with just 82 pitches.
propheteer - August 22, 2009
Agreed
bigz38fan - August 22, 2009
Well, we don't know if...
… the Cubs might not have lost Thursday anyway. The game that Lou really tossed away was the first game of the Philly series, by not having Grabow warming up with three LH hitters coming up in a row and Marmol walking everyone on the planet.
If the Cubs win that game, maybe they have confidence enough to win the Philly series, instead of getting swept.
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
True
Yes, I guess that game was more of a foul up than Thursday’s game. Those types of games are becoming common place lately.
propheteer - August 22, 2009
The only problem with this theory is that lefties actually have a better average against Grabow.
There is no way of knowing if Grabow would have had more success than Marmol did. I would also like to know how lack of confidence kept the Cubs from winning the next two games, please be specific. Here I was under the misconception that the Phillies simply had better pitching and better hitting than the Cubs did in those last 2 games.
Acapulco Taco Pie - August 22, 2009
However...
… Lou did that all year, earlier, with Sean Marshall, who is NOT a LOOGY. The “book” thing to do was to have Grabow up. Or Marshall, if not Grabow.
Marmol had nothing that day. You’ve got to have someone up.
And if the Cubs win the first game, maybe the momentum of the rest of the series shifts to them. Oh, I forgot. You stat types don’t believe in things like momentum.
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
No, I don't believe they lost the last 2 games because of momentum.
Even old school baseball types can tell you momentum is that day’s starting pitcher. Lou could definitely have gone with other options in that first game but we don’t know that the outcome would have been any different. There have been plenty of times that Marmol has come in created his own jams and pitched out of them.
People also forget all the moves Lou makes that end up working and result in a win. Sometimes moves work, sometimes they don’t, it’s up to the players to execute ultimately.
Acapulco Taco Pie - August 22, 2009
We don't know that.
I believe in momentum like that. If the Cubs, who had an outstanding outing from Rich Harden that night, had won that game, I believe they’d have won at least one of the next two games, winning the series, instead of getting swept.
When they lost that game, I believe the team got completely deflated. It’s certainly your right not to believe in such things. I do.
Al Yellon - August 23, 2009
Need to go
1. Lou
2. Jim
3. Both
bigz38fan - August 22, 2009
Is Both a scout or something?
daver - August 22, 2009
Both as in
Both Lou and Jim need to go
bigz38fan - August 22, 2009
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, OK.
daver - August 22, 2009
Glad that was cleared up.
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
we definitely need to improve our scouting department
Illicat - August 22, 2009
so
First get rid of Lou
Then git rid of Jim
Then find out where they went and get rid of them again?
El Borto - August 22, 2009
"I say we kill him!"
“I say we hang him!”
“I say we hang him then we kill him!”
daver - August 22, 2009
Put Soriano on waivers.
Right now.
And cross your fingers that some contender is dumb enough to take the contract. Do it. Otherwise, Ricketts inherits a mess that hampers our payroll for years.
SackMan - August 22, 2009
LIKELY. ALREADY. DONE.
AHGGHGHHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
daver - August 22, 2009
One down, 9 to go.
I might need to create that fanpost yet . . . .
Shanghai Badger - August 22, 2009
Sigh...I think it's time to get off the computer and get my daughter away from the TV.
daver - August 22, 2009
Not yet - I just published the rant
Shanghai Badger - August 22, 2009
Nice job - almost missed it!
daver - August 22, 2009
But if we say it enough, it'll become true!
: : : commence placing fingers in ears and stamping loudly : : :
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
hey man
I can see the vein in the side of your head pulsing…
drewishdrewid - August 22, 2009
oxygen...need oxygen...
daver - August 22, 2009
what an interesting idea....
jesus christos - August 22, 2009
If Lou stays until 2010
That gives Ryno a full year to manage at AAA, prior to being brought up to replace Tram as Bench coach when Brenly takes over the team in 2011. Ryno learns from BB, with Tram at 3rd base (he is a great coach, just not a manager) with Von Joshua still around since I’m sure most of the AAA guys he worked with will be on the team. I think that would be an ideal way to get Ryno into the big seat, assuming he wants to take it and is in anyway capable of it.
This is all conjecture, of course, and not necessarily what I want to happen.
lswaidz - August 22, 2009
Or...
… bring in Ryno as a major league coach next year.
Remember where you heard this first.
(Brenly will NEVER manage the Cubs.)
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
Mark the tape!
Probably not, but the n-word has a way of biting one on the tuckus.
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
Managing the Chicago Cubs takes a lot of work
in much the same way that managing the Yankees and Red Sox is a lot of work. Dealing with expectations and pressure, and in the case of the Cubs having to somehow put players with holes in their games into positions where they can succeed.
This is not to excuse Lou one bit. Rather it’s evidence that a lively (read: younger) man would be better for the job. Not just physically younger but mentally in shape and sharper.
When Lou implied that the job was tougher than he anticipated, I was mad at him for making excuses. But now I think he might have been saying “I’m too old for this”. Either way, I don’t think he should come back next year.
Obviously the outrageous contracts prohibit dumping Soriano, Bradley, or insert-overripe-veteran-here. So maybe the way to affect change in a more modest fashion would be to buy out Sweet Lou.
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
Boston
Wouldn’t The Green Monster be a beautiful backdrop for Soriano’s little hop?
bigz38fan - August 22, 2009
Yeah, I'm sure they'd bench Jason Bay.
daver - August 22, 2009
Depending on what Jason Bay wants contract-wise
Soriano’s remaning payout might be palatable to John Henry and Theo.
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
Doubt it.
If they weren’t willing to put up with Manny, why would they want Soriano?
daver - August 22, 2009
Soriano doesn't flat-out quit like Manny did
Say what you will about the bunny hop and the constant Ks on pitches low and away, but Soriano gives you effort.
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
Yeah, I guess.
But I think Red Sox management is a little too savvy to take on Alfonso’s contract.
daver - August 22, 2009
That I'll agree with
Maybe if Dan Duquette was still on the job they’d do it.
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
If jogging to the corner to pick up a ball is effort
Well.. then… you are correct.
SackMan - August 22, 2009
While Manny would just ask the ball girl to get it.
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
Soriano also doesn't hit like Manny
Ozzie Montana - August 22, 2009
True.
daver - August 22, 2009
I was just being silly
Boston has been very busy trading, releasing and claiming players recently. Jason Bay will command a big contract.
bigz38fan - August 22, 2009
Boston is desperate, thanks to NY's nice little run.
But not that desperate.
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
Maybe add a poll, Al?
If you do, perhaps include an “undecided” option because that’s kinda where I’m at.
daver - August 22, 2009
I'd really be curious how it comes out.
I know I for one was very afraid to come out and say that I don’t totally hate Lou and I’m wondering if there are others out there as well. I’d probably answer undecided although I am leaning towards keeping him. I may get angry at him and question his moves, but not necessarily enough to warrant firing him.
Remember when many were crying out to get rid of Lee a few months back?
katie casey - August 22, 2009
I'd like to see lou back...
… only if there is some plan for beyond 2010, and he is helping with the transition.
AndrewJStone - August 22, 2009
I'll add a poll.
Thanks.
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
I voted unsure
I would take the 2007-08 model but not the 09 version
LT - August 22, 2009
Yeah, that's where my vote went, too.
There’s still 1/4 of the season left.
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
OT Cubs vs Phillies on MLB network
from 1969 just starting…. Fergie is pitching… Could be good watching… Not sure of the date yet.
LT - August 22, 2009
Psst...see the Fanshot bar.
daver - August 22, 2009
I guess I am blind
don’t see a fanpost… Help
LT - August 22, 2009
Well, I said Fanshot...
…but, you’re right, it is a Fanpost.
Here.
daver - August 22, 2009
duh
now I see it… Thank you sir
LT - August 22, 2009
Tony Kubek is interviewing Leo
He is complaining about the writers lol… Says they should be more like the fans.
LT - August 22, 2009
Careful what you wish for, Leo
Now the fans are worse than the writers! LOL
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
Lou said what you would expect him to say with 42 games to go
and new owners stepping in after the season. Basically Lou is saying, “I am here to do my job, but if you want to buy me out (after the season), I am all ears.”
I have been surprised by some of the things Lou has said in assessing the team’s performance lately. He seems to be making a lot of excuses, including injuries, lack of clutch hitting, etc… Well I seem to recall that Lou emphatically stated at the beginning of the season that this was the team that HE wanted. Time for Lou to shoulder blame too. Accountability starts at the top. Man up Lou.
LAcarl519 - August 22, 2009
the size of the ballpark
that was my favorite. He actually tried to use the size of the freaking ballpark as an excuse.
Illicat - August 22, 2009
Lou may want to leave
He’s been around long enough to know with year left on a contract you don’t give management any leverage. I’ve liked Lou, despite some of his maddening traits. However, I echo those that say he looks to be disinterested. And, it will take a different manager, or a different Lou to make a difference for next year. He’s 66 I think, I don’t know if he wants to change that much. He must have said that to engineer a buyout if he decides to quit.
Nibbles - August 22, 2009
"If he's going to return in 2010, he'd better start getting off his butt "
Throwing fits and getting thrown out of games is not managing to me. It’s the same Lou, the players simply haven’t produced this year.
salparadise23 - August 22, 2009
yeah
lou is the only manager in the history of baseball to get ejected.. i mean the jerk got ejected twice this year on legitimate beefs!
jesus christos - August 22, 2009
"Getting off his butt"
… wasn’t intended to mean “get ejected” or “throw fits”. I meant simply to wake up and make the right moves in games, rather than look like he’s asleep or not caring or both.
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
I hope change is made
with the new ownership. There is to much of Lou in the 07 and 08 playoff debacles.
Time to let Tram have another shot at managing.
Grockcubs - August 22, 2009
The real problem to me
is Jim Hendry. If he’s not fired, I’m going to have a real hard time watching this team next year.
salparadise23 - August 22, 2009
I completely agree...
…and it will be tough to know the guy who has created a bit of a mess, is still hanging around.
MPH73 - August 22, 2009
I wouldn't put too much...
…thought into what Lou or anyone else says at this point. Things can change quickly, and as I have said many times, it is my opinion that the manager issue is minor compared to other areas that need to be fixed in the organization.
All of this depends on Ricketts and the timing of his plans to hire someone to run the entire baseball operations (which I believe he will do). Whether he does that right after he takes over, or waits a bit remains to be seen. I would be surprised if he doesn’t have names in mind, and it could be the guy he wants is under contract right now with someone else. If that guy comes in quickly, he may keep both Hendry and Piniella onboard for a year to evaluate, or he may clean house completely, we just don’t know.
In the end, I would expect a new direction for the baseball operations to be no more than one year away. I don’t see Hendry serving out his contract as GM, and it’s possible he isn’t in that role in 2010. Bottom line here, if Hendry’s contract was up after this year, he would have no chance of surviving the ownership change for more than 5 minutes.
I guess it’s appropriate when you think about it. The Cubs are stuck with some bad player contracts, so why wouldn’t they also be stuck with the GM (3 more years) who signed them?
MPH73 - August 22, 2009
I have to admit...
I’ve been wondering if Lou will or shoud be back next year. I like him well enough and he still has those flashes of brilliance (the afore- mentioned Marshall in left field). But he appears to be somewhat adrift this year.
According to one of the workers at a local coffee place I go to, “Lou’s an awesome dude, but he’s getting OLD.” Which I took to mean that the young man thinks Lou should retire. According to one of my sports loving co-workers “Lou doesn’t get after his players enough. He’s turning into Dusty Baker.” He went on to say they should the Sandberg a shot or if they want him to get some more seasoning, try Bob Brenley.
I suspect that while Lou’s time maybe over, he may stay until his contract ends. Unless he decides to ask for his release or the new ownership buys him out. And who knows, maybe next year with some GOOD team changes in place, Lou will go leave a winner.
brook - August 22, 2009
Poll added to this post.
Al Yellon - August 22, 2009
Al is da bomb dot com
Instead of big leaguing us and acting like the big CEO locked in his golden tower, he actively hobnobs and hangs with the hoi polloi. Hope that Tom Ricketts takes a lesson and makes himself as accessible as Our Al.
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
Thanks!
daver - August 22, 2009
Lou, Jim, Crane
all back next year.
drewishdrewid - August 22, 2009
Wanna bet $20 towards Project 3000?
Shanghai Badger - August 22, 2009
what the hell
I’m losing my Gregg bet.
Sure. $20 says that all three are back for at least 50% of the 2010 season.
drewishdrewid - August 22, 2009
Lou
is a horrible strategical manager. Even in 2008 when I thought he did a good job with the players and the media and tempering expectations I could not understand why Marmol threw every night, Howry was consistently used in the 7th inning, why Derrek Lee never got a day off, how he completely mishandled Fukudome’s sleep, etc.
This year he’s been worse. That Aaron Miles is ever in a game says that much – and the bullpen is still as poorly managed as ever (Sean. Marshall. can. face. righties. kthxbye). Plus, he just seems disinterested and generally lacking the fire that he is supposedly known for. The mellow approach worked last year when we were good. Now that we’re underperforming, sure would be nice to see him get under the skin of Soriano, et. al.
I don’t blame Lou for the players failing, but I sure as heck don’t think he’s done anything to help.
cubsforever - August 22, 2009
I went with yes to keep him and here's why.
You can’t change 100 years of ineptiitude in 2 season or even 3 or 4. That has been the Cubs problem all along. That constant cycle of rebuilding and here it is…new general manager-3yrs. later a new field manager-1 or 2 yrs later new general manager-repeat. You need to give the management time to turn things around.
katie casey - August 22, 2009
I'm fine with keeping Lou
It’s strange that over the course of one year, many posters and fans are now using the same language they used for Dusty Baker.
Hendry is the architect of this disaster. He needs to go. I don’t care what Pinella did or did not say in the makeup of this team. The buck stops with him.
salparadise23 - August 22, 2009
Fully agree Sal
But it’s Piniella’s decision to send Miles and Soriano out there…
chilango2 - August 22, 2009
Yep, there no excuse for that.
Imagine if Hendry was the GM for the Mets or the Yankees. There would be no firing. He would be drawn and quartered.
salparadise23 - August 22, 2009
That could be another interesting topic of discussion here:
You want Hendry back? Who’d you suggest as a replacement? Etc.
chilango2 - August 22, 2009
At this point
I’ll take one of the beer vendors.
salparadise23 - August 22, 2009
He needs to bench Soriano yesterday.
katie casey - August 22, 2009
Agreed.
I really think Soriano should’ve been benched for this entire Dodgers series. Bring him back at Wrigley vs. the Nats.
daver - August 22, 2009
YES AND THAT
Should have occured over a month ago…..He is LAZY……No other way to put it.
cubs north - August 23, 2009
He has to play the players he is given.
Do you really believe anyone else on this roster playing every day over Soriano would have made this team a first place team? Soriano has had a down year and Lou hasn’t had much choice but to play him and hope he starts to regress to his career averages. If Fox or Fuld had been playing left every day this team would not be ahead of the Cardinals. Miles has sucked but he’s a back-up and hasn’t had a significant impact on the team one way or the other. Whatever Miles role has been it has been minimal and any other back-up wouldn’t have made this team a great deal better.
Acapulco Taco Pie - August 22, 2009
Point taken
chilango2 - August 22, 2009
Well said...
lets hope the Ricketts understand the real issues with club and the history behind how they got to this point.
frankly, if Lou goes and Hendry stays, it will be a damn shame if Hendry is allowed to hire his third manager considering the overall circumstances
MPH73 - August 22, 2009 via mobile
Because Lou is using the same language as Dusty...
Excuses about temperatures, injuries, altitude, and the size of ballparks.
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
maybe instead of meaning
that Lou’s bad, that means that Dusty wasn’t.
drewishdrewid - August 22, 2009
what?
Ummm, no I have nothing to say to that, except, I’m assuming you’re just trying to be argumentative
Illicat - August 22, 2009
Yeah...
That’s it…
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
I don't like...
…the excuse talk either, but it isn’t just Lou.
If you ever listen to quotes from Hendry, he lays out the BS just as well and he is the leader of the baseball organization.
If I hear one more time how sometimes players don’t produce in the first year of a new contract (ala Moises Alou), I am going to puke. Hendry can talk out of both sides of his mouth with the best of em, and it’s one of the reasons he sold kenney on extending him for 4 years.
MPH73 - August 22, 2009
Dusty was/is one of the worst-ever baseball managers
Period, exclamation point, end of story.
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
THATS RIGHT......
It is almost like LOU watched some old WGN sports cast . Well Dusty said this and that . Excuse after excuse …..Things gotta change in 2010,,,,
cubs north - August 22, 2009
but...
can you say the signings the last couple of years are of a long-term strategy? I mean Soriano for 8 years? Sure it’s a long time, but was it logical? We can only hope 2009 is an off year for him, otherwise we have a long 3 years ahead of us.
Dempster: Was that a long-term logical signing? TBD
Zambrano: I love his fire, nobody on this team is there to win more than big Z. Call his antic childish but he is there to win.
VegasCubFan - August 22, 2009
I'm not talking about players.
I’m talking about management.
katie casey - August 22, 2009
what you have...
…is a mess, and there will be some short term pain to clean it up. This is why I would prefer an immediate change in GM, so they can get to work on cleaning up.
there is a lot of money tied up already for 2010, and many of the pieces are immovable objects unless you burn considerable dollars to make palitable for the other club.
The core players will be here again in 2010. That is, unless Ricketts wants to add significant dollars as another band aid approach.
MPH73 - August 22, 2009 via mobile
I'm always leery as to the impact a manager has
It isn’t like football or basketball or hockey where coaches have their own specific “systems” or “schemes” to implement.
I mean, Lou hasn’t been perfect, but it isn’t his fault that Aramis’s shoulder fell out or guys don’t hit with runners on or Kevin Gregg doesn’t have an out pitch.
Curtain Jerker - August 22, 2009
I usually am too, but Lou has made some moves this season
in fact, quite a few of them that were just so head scratchingly stupid, they obviously changed the game.
Illicat - August 22, 2009
I am disappointed...
I really feel his best effective days are over.
Nice job (sans the Playoffs) in 2007, 2008
I just do not think he is the right guy, nor has the energy anymore. Losing does that to you as well as the mindset of many of today’s young players – including the multi-millionaires.
The only way rich players get motivated it seems, is with lack of P.T.
The only thing to me a little different than Dusty now, is he was forced to play young guys more.
There ARE seniors that are having success this year: TLR (every year), Bobby Cox, Jim Leyland – but Lou just would rather be sleeping or on the golf course it seems.
The E-Man - August 22, 2009
Once this disaster of a season is over...
Who’s to say Lou won’t change his mind? And at that point, the choice of him coming back may be out of his hands. It’s possible Ricketts will want to go in another direction.
CubsBullsBears - August 22, 2009
I don't blame him for wanting to come back
Who wouldn’t love a job that pays you millions of dollars to doze and daydream for three or four hours a day.
That said, I was a fan of Lou’s until this season. His somnambulant management this year has me as mystified as everyone else.
Mike Vails Evil Twin - August 22, 2009
+1 for the erudite language today
“Gonfalon”, “somnambulant”…William F. Buckley would be proud.
CaliCub - August 22, 2009
That reminds me of the somnambulist in the Cabinet of Dr. Caligari
katie casey - August 22, 2009
No problem with Piniella
Coincidence that Lou says he intends to be back next year, to finish his contract, right after the team sale was formalized. I still think there is a chance of his contract being bought out at the end of this season, but much less convinced of that possibility than I was before.
Still think Lou is one of the best managers the Cubs have had and don’t think it would be easy to replace him. Whatever the differences between this season and the previous two don’t add-up to anything.
That Broxton can really throw.
AboutTheCubs - August 22, 2009
They should still get rid of him
Youth is needed in that dugout. Take a chance.
Ace Venom - August 22, 2009
Cubs don't suck because of Sweet Lou
But alas, ignorant Cub fans love to go on violent mood swings when it comes to the manager.
The Cubs haven’t been the same since the 2008 playoffs because of a lot of reasons. Too many older ballplayers, an awful payroll situation, a minor league system that only craps out aging journeyman types when it comes to position players…
What people failed to understand in 2008 was that SO VERY MANY Cub players had great years AND stayed healthy. The window to win a World Series closed in 2008. Now a full blown rebuilding job is in order.
If Lou wants to come back an endure a rebuilding process, then that is up to him.
BLou - August 22, 2009
LOU RETIRES......
Goes back to Tampa and does whatever . The 2009 disaster has to be put behind us . Maybe when we meet in Mesa there will be a fresh face in the dugout . Lets hope so …
cubs north - August 22, 2009
I am in favor of more Lou
Especially since I have not heard a replacement suggestion that would be an improvement. It would be different if we had Joe Torre or even, shudder, Tony LaRussa interested in this job. But the names thrown around here — Trammel, Brenly, Sandberg — would not be an improvement, and would put us further in the weeds.
In a year, we would be lamenting the fact that we rode Lou out of town on a rail — just as those who wanted to see this team retooled after the playoff failures the last two years regret losing that 2008 offensive machine.
I admit that Lou has seemed too patient sometimes with the usual player “suspects”, but I also think that we are going nowhere if most of those guys don’t deliver. I love Sam Fuld, but if he will not replace the production of Soriano of 2008. I think that Lou was correct in believing that the odds were higher of that guy coming back, at least for hot streaks, than of Sam Fuld providing that much offense.
vonde6 - August 22, 2009
Good point
Good point about Soriano. How he could have been the player of the month in April of this year and then struggle to this degree is strange. I see Fuld as a potential replacement for Reed Johnson. The idea stems from going on the cheap; otherwise I like Johnson.
AboutTheCubs - August 22, 2009
This doesn't thrill me but
I’ll wait and see what happens with new ownership.
sue369 - August 23, 2009
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