Bleed Cubbie Blue

Sam Fuld...

…is working on his high-light reel. Or, is looking to assemble enough “face plants” for a youtube sensation. Next, he’ll manage to splash down in the Rays tank at the Tropicana.

I was having a crappy day

So I didn’t turn it on, I checked the score in the 5th and decided. It did cheer up my dad a bit

Madison Cub Fan - August 23, 2009 reply

Took you long enough Al!

The natives were getting restless in the last thread.

Hey, maybe Len does read BCB!

I made the “F-Troop” reference in yesterday’s recap thread.

…and all we’d have to do is stick the F-Troop Platoon (Fox & Fuld) out in left until Sori gets his groove back.

I also used “RH factor” to describe a Reed/Hoffpauir platoon for right field, so keep your ears peeled for that one in September… ;-)

I'm convinced he does

It’s not the first time I’ve heard him reference something someone hashed here the night before. And, Len, I’m not accusing you of plagiarism, but give Ken a shoutout every once in a while.

chilango2 - August 23, 2009 reply

maybe len visits the ballhawks in disguise and listens in for material

Then maybe we SHOULD take credit for it!

Al Yellon - August 23, 2009 reply

cubs.com

Carrie Muskat, the Cubs.com writer has used “F Troop” a few times on the website and on facebook.

PalatineRol - August 23, 2009 reply

I searched her blog and googled "f troop" and all her references were from today (Aug 23)

However, further googling revealed that I was not the first to use F Troop in conjunction with the Cubs. Turns out somebody named “Zonk” made a F Troop reference back in May, on something called Gonfalon Cubs on the Baseball Think Factory site. I think the reference was to the Cubs bench but I don’t quite get the context. Here is his comment

39. zonk Posted: May 28, 2009 at 04:23 PM (#3197772)
My money is more on playing the Pirates having an impact on the team’s fortunes, but after the SD debacle, who knows.

We ought to count ourselves damn lucky that ugly slide only cost about 3 games in the standings.

Nothing will ever make me long for F Troop, of course, but it continues to appall and amaze me how poorly this bench is constructed.

The inflexibility it presents drives me up a wall.

Guess I better call my lawyer back and cancel that appointment… ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball’s_Sad_Lexicon

There is that Gonfalon word again.

Never seen it before, seen it twice in 2 days here. Weird.

AndrewJStone - August 24, 2009 reply

Never seen it before?

See also: Pennant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonfalone

Clutch16 - August 24, 2009 reply

ballhawk rawks

I'm convinced.

Jake Fox is the shit. He needs to start regularly.

+1

+1

Ron Trauma - August 23, 2009 reply

Enjoy the greenage

:-)

I was doing yard work

thinking that maybe the Cubs will play better if I am out of the house. I get done with the yard and the Dodgers get the two on and no out, thought I will be damn. But, they get out of it and a well deserved win by Demp and the Cubs.
Fox and Fuld need to be in the lineup, heck with the money that Bradley and Sori are making. Cubs need a serious run, like a 16-2 run, miracles baby.

Is Grockcubs an allusion to Heilmein's A Starnger in a Strange Land?

it's spelled

Grok in the book.

It's been a while. My bad.

When I was stationed

in Bosnia, my nickname was G-Rock, first name Greg. I love the Cubs, hence Grockcubs.

yes,

thank you!!!

Man, if the Cubs just could have scored 3 runs each game

they would have swept the Dodgers. Iwas so dispirited, I chose not to watch, then tuned them in on the radio even though my wife said I’d regret it. I didn’t! Maybe, I’ll just listen instead of watch for awhile.

The question is can Fox play RF.

I don’t think there are any scouting reports that says he’s that bad. If he can be just average in the outfield (no worse than Bradley, hehe) he would be awesome for the Cubs. I don’t think Lou would do that. He’s probably drunk lol.

Bradley is a plus defender in right

Fox is not. We shouldn’t be looking for ways to sit Bradley.

What evidence do you have of this.

The Milton Bradley I’ve seen is a terrible defender. Has Jake Fox ever thrown the ball into the bleachers? Thought not.

Jake Fox...

…can best serve the Cubs by being immobile at the 1B. He has no wheels, and if he can’t run, he has no business being in the OF.

My eyes

tell me he can and I go to a lot of games. Al do you’re at a ton of games what do your eyes tell you about this?

You may want to have those eyes checked.

Jake Fox can run about as well as Manny Ramirez, which is to say not at all. If you think Fox is going to cover the ground at Petco., Dodger Stadium, the Juice Box, Chase, Citi Field, etc., you’re sadly mistaken. By playing Fox you’re essentially increasing the “gap” because Fox can’t close the distance with his less than stellar speed.

He might even be slower than D. Lee, and Fonzi has been lazy.

I'm in agreement here.

Jake Fox is a decent 1B, can play LF on occasion and 3B without embarrassing himself.

I wouldn’t want to see him in RF on a regular basis.

Al Yellon - August 23, 2009 reply

no problem

play Fox in LF, Fuld in CF and Fukudome in RF… done deal.

The above is for the Bradley haters of course. I don’t include myself in that. He’s not a bad fielder. He has a productive purpose on this game. He’s not going to be the slugger they thought they were getting, but he has value as a guy who can get on base and hit a little. He needs to hit in front of Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez and Jake Fox. Unfortunately, the same can be said of Ryan Theriot, Kosuke Fukudome (every day I see him hit 5th in a lineup I die a little inside) and Sam Fuld (until he proves otherwise).

Therefore, because of lack of better options… hitting Bradley third is the way to go. The three hitter doesn’t have to hit 30 homers to be productive. The 90s Cleveland Indians got a lot of mileage out of Lofton, Vizquel, Alomar setting up for Thome, Ramirez, etc. And that’s the model I’d like to see the Cubs go to. Sure it won’t score the kind of runs the Indians did… but you won’t see as many 0 and 1 run games.

Those who think lineup construction doesn’t matter are wrong. When the fall is all that’s left… it matters a great deal.

How about that for an obscure reference?

I like Bradley 2nd...

…and Fukudome leading off against RH pitchers.

santoswoodenlegs - August 23, 2009 reply

and Aaron Miles watching the next opponet as an advance scout.

Good one!

hmmm...

if he refuses to do it, would he void his contract? interesting proposal… because professional baseball player shouldn’t be his job title right now. There’s no excuse for him to be on the major-league roster instead of Andres Blanco.

There is an excuse...

…it’s called dollars committed to him in a contract.

It’s sad, but true.

technically

they’re both on the MLB roster. Blanco is just assigned to AAA. :D

actually...

it was my mistake… Blanco is actually listed on the DL right now. I did not know that. Doesn’t change the fact that there should be someone on the minor-league roster or the open market (maybe a beer league?) better than Aaron Miles.

ok

then you should like Fuld and Theriot in front of them even more.

I’m willing to throw small sample size out the window and hand jobs to Fuld and Fox until they prove otherwise.

Fuld OBP vs RHP – .476!

Fukudome OBP vs RHP – .401

Bradley OBP vs RHP – .390

All are good enough to hit in front of Lee, Ramirez and Fox and gives the team a much better chance of getting some players home.

vs lhp

i guess you would go with Theriot, Baker and Bradley leading into Lee, Ramirez, Fox and Soto.

I almost gave up on the season last week when I saw Baker bat 5th for a team supposedly trying to make the playoffs. There’s no way a team scores runs with Jeff Baker or Kosuke Fukudome hitting 5th.

I don't know if Lou...

…has a blind spot with the 5 hole or what, but I agree he hasn’t had the best guys in that position.

IMO, Soriano should have been put in the 5 hole all the way back in 07.

baker right now is a better 5 hole hitter than soto

A lot of guys...

…are a better 5 hole hitter than Soto. He has been a huge dissappointment this year.

Unfortunate emphasis

on “huge” as well.

true

DEMP FOR THE 5 HOLE

you're right

That’s why we have Lee, Ramirez and Fox before we even get to Soto who would bat 7th or even 8th.

Nowhere would I ever suggest Soto to bat fifth, unless he discovers his 2008 form. He still has quite the slugging % against lhps though.

ugh...

i’m beginning to see a problem getting Fuld, Fukudome, Bradley and Fox in the lineup even though they’re four of our most productive hitters against rhps… and Fox for some reason (small sample size?) isn’t very good against lhps. I guess that’s how Theriot gets into the two hole against rhps.

Fuld cf
Theriot ss
Fukudome rf
Lee 1b
Ramirez 3b
Fox lf
Fontenot 2b
Soto c

I guess you could mix in Bradley instead of Fuld or Fox two or three times per week. Any time you sit Fukudome against a rhp you’re just killing his value. You’re better off releasing him at that point. It’s how he’s effective offensively and he almost good enough defensively to play no matter what he does on offense.

btw...

if Fukudome hitting third is more palatable to you… then sure, Bradley 2nd, Fukudome 3rd… the difference there is negligible. Having Fukudome hit fifth is a tragedy.

MB is a solid right fielder; solid to good in my book actually.

And whether you go to a game of watch it on TV, I don’t think matters. Though if you really want to count, I’ve only missed a handful of home games this year. // Give the ball in the bleachers bit a break, it didn’t even cost us a run, he was the one humiliated bc he gave a fan a souvenir. // Jake Fox is awesome in my book, I’d put him in left field for now because Soriano is the closest thing to a disaster I’ve seen in a while.

smash! - August 23, 2009 reply

are you kidding?

if the Milton Bradley you have seen is a “terrible” defender, then maybe you do need your eyes checked.

You can focus on the mistake of throwing the ball into the bleachers all you want. The fact is, it was an isolated mistake. He has made some extremely good plays in the second half.

are you serious? If yes, you must be Kaplan

cubsnlinux - August 23, 2009 reply

Is Bradley really a plus defender?

when he knows how many outs there are

yes

Why not?

Bradley is in the midst of another slump and Fox is hitting, this late in the season, you play who’s hitting.

Fox in right?

Absolutely not. Especially given the notorious nature of Wrigley’s RF.

He can't be worse than Bradley

Plus he can hit. Hit like a real hitter, driving in runs not walking or other such nonsense. Bradley’s not supposed to be a two hitter, we payed him to be a 4 or 5 hitter. We have one of those in Fox sitting on the bench. Why not use him?

At the very least use him in LF. Him or Fuld. Maybe a Fuld/Fox platoon in Left?

Walking and other such nonsense?

Walking is nonsense? I think you’re the type that’s just determined to hate on Bradley so you’re making things up. He’s not having a great year, for sure, but he’s getting on base and doing a solid job in RF. Soriano, Soto and relief pitching are our major fails this year, Bradley is not the problem.

smash! - August 23, 2009 reply

I don't know

The fact that he is a clubhouse cancer where-ever he goes could be a part of this whole equation. I’m not saying, I’m just saying.

prove it.

back up what you’re saying.

I’ll wait.

How about all the stories that are written about him.

LeFevre negatively mentioning his lack of change in relation to Josh Hamilton. The constant horrible relationship with the media. His antics like throwing a water bottle at a fan’s face or fighting with Jeff Kent or Blowing out his knee arguing.

Those seem to be bad clubhouse things.

and I have quotes

from a dozen team-mates or more who say that he’s a standup guy, and they like playing with him.

Those seem to be bad clubhouse things.

“SEEM”? You said “the fact that he’s a clubhouse cancer”. If it’s a fact, you can prove it. Go on. I’m still waiting.

I already did.

I’m through talking with you about this.

right,

so you can’t. Thanks.

His own manager...

Called him a piece of shit; that’s all I need to know. He has such a track record that a simple Google search will leave you with enough negative results filled with incidents that will make your head spin.

his own manager

then apologized to him. And when I do a “simple Google search” on him, I find many of his teammates sticking up for him.

What makes my head spin is Cubs fans ability to slam a guy who has done nothing but try hard to win games.

San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - August 23, 2009 reply

+1

If by sitting out of every other game

means trying his hardest, than yes I suppose so. I don’t care if they say Lou is pulling him out we all know it’s Bradley pulling himself out. I think Paul Sullivan (who is around the team all the time would agree with me.

hahaah

paul sullivan

hahaha

I don't see

What’s so funny about Paul Sullivan. He’s a good objective journalist.

right.

you just proved to me that I don’t have to debate ANYTHING with you. Paul Sullivan shouldn’t appear in the same sentence as the words “good” OR “objective” with “isnt’ an” in between them.

I don’t care if they say Lou is pulling him out we all know it’s Bradley pulling himself out.

We do? You’re simultaneously accusing Lou Piniella of lying AND calling Bradley a liar? I might just buy you a ticket to Cubs Convention this off-season, with the requirement that you say that to their faces. That would be fun to watch.

Discuss the point, not slam the man.

except

he’s making himself the point.

He's a brand-spankin'-new BCBer, com'on, Drew.

dtpollitt - August 24, 2009 reply

after specifically talking about

how he read Al’s “How to post” post, he comes on here, and unleashes the often disproved “Milton Bradley is a cancer” and follows up with “Paul Sullivan is a good journalist.”

and of course "prove it. I'll wait." always help to keep things nice & friendly...

it’s frustrating to see people pop up with rationales that have clearly been disproved over and over again.

ahahahahahahahahaha

sitrick3 - August 23, 2009 reply

youre funny

Open your eyes.

Paul Sullivan is a hack.

sue369 - August 23, 2009 reply

Says who?

Intelligent people

who have read the crap he writes.

sue369 - August 23, 2009 reply

Really, one needn't possess much intelligence to recognize Mr. Sullivan's ineptitude.

you misspelt guess hack

LT - August 23, 2009 reply

That is the most polite way I've ever hear it put

blackhawk24 - August 23, 2009 reply

Lord

This is nonsense. We need Bradley, and the F-troop, and a lot of luck. Not a good day to hate Bradley — he is out there scratching with the rest of them.

are you serious?!

No I'm for not Serious.

Do you think I would joke about something like this?

it boggles the mind

Buzz...

…I know your new, but please don’t take what newspaper say as gospel, you are just cheating yourself.

The Tribune has the two worst baseball journalists in Chicago (maybe the country) in Sullivan and Rogers, and they are both always produce a good laugh or two per week.

There are only 2-3 journalists that I would ever take seriously as to what they put in print (Miles is one) and Sullivan couldn’t hold Mile’s mouse pad.

I've never really done a whole ton of blogging on a big site

But I suppose your right. It would do to be more critical of Sullivan and what not. I still don’t like Bradley, but if he hit for more power and had better RBIs I wouldn’t mind the personality stuff AS much.

Anyways thanks for the tip. Appreciate it.

All the "personality" stuff comes from the media's perception of him, not his teammates.

If he was an ass he would have shot back at Lou when he blew up, not responded by saying he had too much respect for his manager to reply.

And I don’t get what you were saying about Josh Hamilton, what do you mean by this: “LeFevre negatively mentioning his lack of change in relation to Josh Hamilton.”

smash! - August 24, 2009 reply

You nailed it...

…regarding the media building a perception of a players attitude and I believe that is a major factor with Bradley.

There are numerous examples of players who are jaded one way by the media, yet there teamates feel differently. Steve Carlton was one of the best examples of this. The media thought he was an A-1 A-hole (because he got fed up and simply wouldn’t talk with them) and his teameates that the guy was great.

MPH73 - August 24, 2009 reply

hahahahahaha

Oh man. My stomach. It hurts.

OMG.

Flagged.

smash! - August 24, 2009 reply

Whether Bradley...

…is a great guy or a jerk, really doesn’t matter a whole hell of a lot in the end. He probably has the type of personality that some of his teamates understand, while others don’t care for.

All I give a shit about is whether the guy can play and whether he plays hard. For the most part, Bradley didn’t have a crappy 1st half because he didn’t care, he was just in a funk. If his personality has had a negative effect on other Cub players, those players should be more focused on what they can do to improve their own performance.

The reason the Cubs are in the spot they are, is because there has been a failure on many a front, not just Bradley’s bad 1st half.

I don't think you have to be a complete asshole

to get into a fight with Jeff Kent

I don't think you have to be breathing to get into a fight with Jeff Kent.

sitrick3 - August 23, 2009 reply

I think Gandhi would probably want to punch Jeff Kent

davidalanu - August 23, 2009 reply

The Buddha

would want to punch Jeff Kent, give him a swirlie, and then hang him by his jock strap from a hook.

sounds like a scene out of "Anger Management"

davidalanu - August 24, 2009 reply

Are you from Jersey?

Or have you been watching too much CNN?

HIs UZR is...

Negative this year in RF.

barely

and I’d argue that his excellent second half has pulled that number up. There’s still 40 games to go. His career numbers are much higher.

He's had an OK 2nd half...

Getting on base, but still not hitting over .260-ish post-ASB. I wouldn’t call that “excellent”.

excellent

defensive second half. His bat doesn’t have anything to do with his UZR.

so is MB's UZR now in the above average range?

No...

Still negative.

So, does that mean he's not a "plus-defender"?

Bingo.

So, rather he's a negative defender?

Precisely.

See,

Why did we need some ridiculous “UZR” or whatever to prove what we already know. Bradley is a bad defensive RF.

no, he is not.

so his UZR is negative, but he's not a bad defensive outfielder?

How so, Drew?

his career numbers clearly belie the problems he’s had this year. In 2006, he played 94 games in RF for the Athletics. His UZR was 8.1. In 2004, he played 141 games in the OF for the Dodgers. His UZR was 6.0. His career UZR in RF is 13.1.

Wrigley Field is one of the toughest right fields to play in the majors. He’s had 165 put-outs, and 3 errors with the Cubs. In 2006 with the As, he had 191 put-outs and 4 errors — and had an UZR of 8.1.

He’s a good defender. The first half was not good. No argument from me there. But as a player, he’s a plus defender, career. And I think he’s made some amazingly good plays this year.

Acapulco Taco Pie - August 24, 2009 reply

I can think of...

… a couple of great catches, including one where he slid in to the right field baseline wall, where they were great but everyone (here in the game threads at least) got too wrapped up in assuming he’d get up hurt (and making jokes to the effect) to recognize it.

AndrewJStone - August 24, 2009 reply

UZR is also a system that relies on a large sample and there can be variances in one season that don't accurately show a fielder's true ability.

ok, no argument on what he's been able to do in the past,

especially since I recall him being pretty good in the field. Glad to see the stats back up what my eyes saw years ago.

But you’re using numbers from 2004 and 2006, as well as his overall career ratings. Career numbers are great if you’re talking about careers. But I think we’re all more concerned about what’s happening this season, and it’s now almost the end of 2009. And what I’m getting from this sub-thread is his 2009 numbers are not good.

According to his Baseball-Reference page, he only played the field 20 games last year, and 58 in 2007. I don’t see UZR as one of the columns but I do see a lot of negative numbers for those years (which I assume is not good), as well as in 2005 (73 games) which you so “deftly avoided” to use a Crawdadism… ;-)

I guess the argument I’d like to see is why you think his career numbers are relevant (since it’s been almost 3 seasons since a good one) and what in those career numbers tell you he’s going to revert back to being a plus defender for the next two seasons.

I was deliberately

going for years when he was at least close to 150 games in the OF.

His career numbers are relevant because they show what he’s capable of.

Baseball Reference doesn’t show UZR. Fangraphs does.

"His career numbers are relevant because they show what he's capable of."

Wow – I’d expect that kind of argument out of a newbie or even me, but I was kinda hoping for better from you. Well, I don’t know about you, but I think I’m done here.

UZR doesn't stabilize within one season.

Really, it doesn’t. It’s quite noisy, especially for outfielders, who don’t get all that many balls hit to them. Bradley’s UZR has been pretty good in the past. It’s sort of like the case with Texiera; nobody that’s watched him is saying he’s fallen off defensively, but his UZR has fallen off a cliff this year.

aldimond - August 23, 2009 reply

Thats interesting

Any numbers...

To back up his “excellence”? Or just a qualitative analysis?

his career numbers

are quite high. His numbers in RF earlier this year weren’t so good. Now he’s close to average.

Got a home vs. away split on that?

RF in Wrigley can be a challenging spot to play, not to mention that Bradley’s UZR/150 as a Cub cannot be computed because he has yet to play 150 games in a Cub uniform.

That is a very good point.

How would is it possible to calculate a rate stat per 150 games if a player hasn’t played 150 games? Perhaps a flaw in the stat who knows?

yes

he can absolutely be way worse than Bradley.

I think Fox did play in right a while back and he wasn't very good there.

But does his offense outwiegh his defense.

The man has a ton of power

I would say more so in left than in right. Right is a pretty tough place,

especially in Wrigley.

No.

A good defense is your best offense. Fox’s hitting ability only begins to compare to his defensive inefficiencies when he can be “contact reliable.”

Not when you're losing games...

Consistently 1-0, 2-0. We. Need. Runs.

So Jake Fox

hits a home-run, and pulls a Manny like Manny did today on Rami’s triple. How does that help?

It can’t be either or. You have to have both.

We won by 2 runs today...

Jake Fox had 2RBI today and went 4-4. Milton Bradley has 10RBI since the ASB and 2-22 on the road trip. You play who’s hitting.

The 10 RBI is just not getting it done

.260 BA 10 RBI. Despite the high on base, that still isn’t very good.
Should have gotten Adam Dunn…
oh well

and watch

opposing teams score at will?

Yeah but 40 HRs and 100 RBIs sounds good doesn't it.

Hey SWL do you have any of those funny pictures

Those tend to derail annoying arguments like this one. I’d appreciate the help! =P

ask the Nationals

how good it feels.

That's a little disingenuous

Just because the Nats are having an awful year, it doesn’t negate Dunn’s offense.

CaliCub - August 23, 2009 reply

The Nats' overall year doesn't negate Dunn's offense.

That’s what Dunn’s defense is for.

aldimond - August 23, 2009 reply

actually, wouldn't that be

“and watch opposing teams score at Adam?”

heh-heh

No

you need DEFENSE to keep that lead from growing.

doesn't work that way.

No

For the same reason that Adam Dunn would be a disaster in RF at Wrigley.

And Fox is not (yet?) the basher that Dunn is.

Right...

Because our defense it what’s been costing us games lately? We need offense any way we can get it. Just like the “Fox can’t play 3rd” argument, until he starts costing you runs and games, you play him because he can hit.

The only thing that would have made this stretch more unbearable

Is the Flubs defense that they used to routinely field in days gone by. You really don’t want to go there.

I have been a Bradley

non-supporter at least for the signing, bad move. However he has worked hard, hustles, take two minor blow ups, he has been an pretty good teammate. That being said, he just hasn’t hit, he gets on base, well that’s fine. Problem is he is a corner outfield position a position that normally drives in runs, he and Soriano have been terrible driving in runs this year.
As far as I am concerned I would give Fuld and Fox more starts, hell can’t be any worse. The Cubs starting pitching has been solid. It was mentioned after the Cubs lost yesterday 2-0, that the Cubs have scored 2 runs or less in 25 games this year. If the Cubs want to make a miracle run, I would think you have to go with a bat like Fox. Give him 3 or 4 starts a week. Just sayin.

I've always taken a bit of exception to the idea

That what position a guy plays on the field should determine what you expect from them offensively. Play a guy where he can make the best defensive contribution to the team and then set your lineup according to where the numbers tell you a guy should be hitting. Basing your expectations for a player’s offensive output based on where they play in the field has always struck me as counter-intuitive at best, and a wasteful use of resources at worst.

Or you know the basis for what a replacement level player for that position should be,

Whatever floats your boat. It’s not like great offensive center fielders are hard to find or anything….

/sarcasm

We seem to be having trouble generating offense

From any position these days. Bradley’s OBP is actually a bright spot in this lineup.

But my point is that different sets of stats are kept for offense and defense. Your basis for an “average” player in a defensive position should be defensive numbers, and (according to your lineup philosophy) your basis for where you bat that guy should be their offensive numbers. Expecting your 1B to always be a power hitter seems to be cutting a corner that really shouldn’t be cut. Ask Mark Grace :)

Signing of Bradley

was suppose to bolster the lineup, get on base, score runs and drive in runs. I don’t think 30 RBI’s, 45 runs scored from there rightfielder was in the plans when they forked over 10M. ( yes you can say the same for Soriano) The problem is the whole outfield is not productive, except Fox, so play him.
Whether it is counterproductive or not, for the most part your corner outfielders usually produce offense. The Cubs have not.

Grockcubs - August 24, 2009 reply

But did Len get the F-Troop reference from Carrie Muskat?

copied & pasted from Carrie’s MLB Blog and Facebook update:

8/23 LIneup & update

Alfonso Soriano did not start Sunday because of a sore left knee that has been bothering him for a few days. It’ll be the “F Troop” lineup vs. the Dodgers — Fuld, Fukudome, Fox and Fontenot:

— Carrie Muskat

Posted on August 23, 2009 at 3:06 PM

Da Coach - August 23, 2009 reply

Maybe

both Carrie and Len read it yesterday when ballhawk posted it in yesterday’s recap?

KC in OK - August 23, 2009 reply

Good win.

hopefully, they can build on it.

I wanted Joe Girardi, but I have to defend Lou.

He’s always said it’s his job to put his players where they’ll have a chance to succeed. They have to perform. They haven’t. Lou hasn’t made any more flubs than most other excellent managers. He still kicks Dusty’s ass on in-game managing, and I don’t know who would replace him that would be any better. I say, stick with him during this slump and see what happens.

would joe girardi use aaron miles as a pinch hitter with the goahead run in scoring position

Sorry but he does not kick ass at in-game managing

They both suck at it. I thought Lou’s strength was supposed to be kicking ass but I see little sign of it anymore. Dusty’s strength was making every player feel needed, it was a double edged sword but people here have a real short memory on how much he did in 2003. Dusty had a LOT more injuries to deal with but that does not excuse his obsession with Neffi , etc. So far he won 6 more post season games than Lou.

I'm not saying he's perfect...

Nice Win!!

Changed my signature today and it’s proving to be good luck!

cubsluver22 - August 23, 2009 reply

Hmmm

She might want to forget that particular post — not that it is too worrisome right now.

I hadn't read that thread

but I went back and read it. Funny reading LOL

Well, that was nice.

I was following along via radio at the A’s game today, and it was great to hear the Cubs get some timely hitting!

Onwards and upwards from here! Let’s keep winning, and hope that the Nats can blank the Redbirds the same way they did the Yankees!

"If the starters can just stretch out their outings a little bit longer..."

I’m pretty sure it hasn’t been the starters asking to get pulled after 6 innings while at 90 pitches…

Danwood - August 23, 2009 reply

it was aaron miles

It's always Aaron Miles

"LOU I WANNA BAT!!!"

“god damn it fine”

Just glad to get a win.

Dempster was as good as he has been this year. I was a little leary about the lineup early but good move by Lou. As grockcubs said, 16-2 would work for me. One more thing to be thankful for on a sunday. No. Aaron. Miles.

mrcubsfan - August 23, 2009 reply

Demp's command was outstanding

But his arm slot was what kept them confused. I watched ~50 pitches pretty closely, and his motion and arm slot for his fastballs and sliders were almost identical. Terrific performance – I almost felt sorry for the Dodger hitters.

Almost.

Yeah

Demps pitched a dandy today. And only 1 walk. That was my favorite part.

Excellent observations

Arm slot is crucial for a pticher to keep hitters off balance. It is also one of the major factors in what made Greg Maddux so successful.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/08/are-cubs-resigned-to-fate.html

"Look, we're going to have to do it with our veterans here"...

Said Lou Piniella if asked if Fuld and Fox would get more playing time. Why not just play those who are hitting and playing the best out there? What’s the worst that can happen, you fall 8 games out?

I don't agree with this at all...

The season is on life support. You put out the best starting position players everyday. Right now, that is Jake Fox or Sam Fuld in left field. Right now the bottom of the order is black hole when Soriano is in th lineup. He has been mostly terrible since Mid May minus one minor slump buster after the all star break. Not sure you can or should expect him to pull out of it this year since he has been so bad most of the year.

TheRiot Police - August 23, 2009 reply

"we are going to have to start our veterans"

Ok guys I didn’t say it Lou did. So back to Soriano and still letting Miles hit in key situations ? Why because it has worked so well ?
He sees no need to change anything. Brilliant.

( yes I know Ballhawk I am the Blou of Lou so to speak but a quote like that drives me NUTS)

I understand what Lou is saying...

…because if the Cubs are going to go on a great tear to get back in it, chances are it has to be from their proven players playing like they can. The chances of career minor league players leading that kind of charge is unlikely.

With that said, I understand the frustration, and I wouldn’t mind seeing Soriano staying on the bench and Fox getting a couple more starts.

Didn't he say that while he was putting in Fox and Fuld?

Keep Soriano and Bradley out!

Forget it. It’s too late. We’ve got to get the guys out there that are doing the job. They’ve got to keep this line up. If it wins, run with it. Fox tied Bradley for home runs and rarely gets a chance to play. He hit 4-4. When was the last time Soriano did that? Platoon Hill and Soto, Fontentot and Baker, but keep this line up.

May 17th of last season

Soriano went 5-5.

that was last season

enough said

You asked when the last time Soriano did that

I gave you the answer

Yeah

I guess I did!

However, last September Soriano went 4-5

with 3 homeruns.

I'm ready for the Fox experiment in left, last September was way long ago

Exactly,

This team needs more Fox and more Hill. Great defense at the most important position and power to supplement the offense. Just look at what Al showed. The Cubs’ record with Hill catching is really good and Fox has 9 HRs in limited play this year. Good stuff.

+1 on more Hill

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6256159

You guys see this?

Unassisted triple play by the Phillies against the Mets.

awesome!

I love the stunned look on Francoeur's face

However, that may just be his natural face as I don’t think the guy is very bright.

Or very good at baseball.

He swings a helluva bat

In exactly the same place every time. Plays a decent RF, but can still be fooled by the dreaded AA curveball.

Bats afraid

no hit curve ball. I ask Jobu.

Respekt.

That unassisted triple play

seemed so natural, it’s surprising it doesn’t happen more often.

ChipSet - August 23, 2009 reply

The best part of that inning

is that Bruntlett had booted the last two balls hit to him.

San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - August 23, 2009 reply

You play the hot hand, the F'ers are right now

but….I’ll wager Sori and Bradley will play the majority of games until this team is mathematically eliminated.

if they're the hot hand-fine

Nice game today

but we had twelve hits and 3 runs. This game was won mostly by pitching. The hitting remained subpar in key situations.

Might have to go 9-1 on this homestand to make any hay, but that is not out of the realm of possibility given our opponents.

Ken Berry, a great defensive outfielder for the White Sox.

Oh yes — one more thing about “F Troop”. One of the actors starring in that series was named Ken Berry. At the same time the series aired — 1965-67 — a mainstay of center field in the American League was also named Ken Berry. Just to keep this reference on a baseball-oriented track.

Deftly avoiding mentioning that Ken Berry spent 9 of his 14 years in MLB patrolling the OF for the White Sox.

DrCrawdad - August 23, 2009 reply

Man, White Sox suck

as a Cubs fan, I am obligated to never say anything good about a White Sox player, sorry DrCrawdad

1908

DrCrawdad - August 23, 2009 reply

Not as good a squad as 1907

More injuries, and they needed some luck (and Fred Merkle) to get to the series in the first place, but once we got there, the Tigers were no match at all.

That doesn't mean much really.

I’ve been alive for 20 years so you shouldn’t you say 1989 for me?

"Deftly avoiding mentioning..."

You really think Al deliberately chose not to include one of Berry’s team in the writeup just because it was the White Sox? You crack me up, Doc. Watch X-Files much?

Well then, just for the record, you deftly avoided mentioning Ken Berry also played for the California Angels and the Milwaukee Brewers before finishing his career with the Cleveland Indians.

its a conspiracy!

Al probably watched Ken Berry play for in his 9 seasons with the Sox. Why sidestep mentioning that? If I mention, I don’t know, Ron Santo I’d refer to him as a Cub not as a mainstay of the NL.

DrCrawdad - August 23, 2009 reply

Look out! Behind you!

Clearly, from now on

when ever we mention a player, we must include his entire resume. So, the correct way to refer to Milton Bradley is “Bradley, who has played for the Indians, Dodgers, Padres, A’s, Rangers and Cubs.”

That way it is fair to all fans of all teams, don’t want anyone to feel as though they are being singled out.

or left out as with the case of any Montreal Expo fans still around... :-)

Started his career with Montreal (2001-02) before being traded to Cleveland for Zach Day.

Damn!

Well that’s just great, now we are going to feel the wrath of “DrEcrevisse”.

AH GAUNTEE!

DrCrawdad - August 24, 2009 reply

i hear al was also the shooter in the grassy knoll!

We're still watching

in the middle of season five. Just finished the X-mas Ghost episode.

(weeps)

the one with Ed Asner and Lilly Tomlin?

Why the weeps? That was a good one.

oh, dood

it was terrible. Worse then the vampire one in season 1. IMO.

As much as I like to think the F-Troop could be very useful, and regular players...

…the fact is that we have Soriano for 5 years/$90,000,000, Fukudome for 2 years/$26,500,000, and Bradley for 2 years/$21,000,000. That’s 3 players, 9 years, and $137,500,000.

Dan

Fukudome has been playing well this year.

His turn around has inspired me to buy one of those rising sun headbands. I hated the signing at the beginning of the year, but he seems to be worth it right now.

I’m not questioning the player. I’m saying our outfield is more than set for the next two years. No one in hell is going to trade for Soriano, and I doubt Bradley or Fukudome for that matter.

The question is why would you trade Fukudome?

how bout because

he is making 13 million a year, hits for a decent average, gets on base decently, struggles against lefties, doesnt steal many bases, is playing somewhat out of position in center and doesnt hit for power.

Fukudome has been okay this year. If he was making 1/3 of the money he would be worth it. You jump at literally any chance you get to trade any of our outfielders. You dont even have to get anything back. You could spend 13 million in quite a few better ways

Plays great defense too

Whether or not he’s worth 13 million is irrelevant. He’s a good player. nuff said.

What lefty doesn’t struggle against lefties? It’s rare to find a lefty that hits lefties well. He’s supposed to be a top of the order guy. I’ll pay 13 mil for a good leadoff guy with moderate power.

I completely dsagree

Guys with Fukudome’s skill set are a dime a dozen. He doesnt have moderate power. Hes a 15 homerun max guy, hitting .270 or so, who doesnt steal bases.

He is only batting at the top of the order because he failed at hitting in the middle of the order, a la Bradley.

As to the lefty thing, a lot of lefties struggle against other lefties, but they dont get 13 million a year. And that is highly relevant to the discussion of trading him. If you drop him and his 13 million and find a guy who can duplicate his production for 6 million, you can use the other 7 million for someone else who can help. He is insanely overpaid for what he does, and that hamstrings this team.

Find me a person that can equal Kosuke's production for 6-7 mil.

Even better prove to me that the market value for a CENTER FIELDER hitting like he does is only worth 6-7 mil.

Shane Victorino is making 3.85 million

Matt Kemp,$467,000

Dexter Fowler $401,000

Granderson, 3.5 million

Grady Sizemore 4.766million

Marlon Byrd, 3 million

Michael Bourn, $434,500

Cody Ross, $2.25million.

Those guys all have similar production to Fukudome. Granted those guys may be worth more on the market, but they are certainly not worth 13 million.

I should say: That are available.

Ross, I’ll give you.

Sizemore you can’t get ever.
Fowler is really young.
Kemp’s not going anywhere
Bourn is terrible
Byrd is journeyman.
Granderson isn’t going anywhere.
Victorino isn’t as good as Kosuke either. Not good enough an OBP or enough power to match Kosuke.

So Cody Ross is basically what your left with in terms of cheap.
you threw out 3 franchise CFs, that’s not fair. Those guys obviously aren’t available.

So your point is

we are getting certain production from Dome for 13million. We cant find anyone to give us better production for less. That itself is highly debatable but, even accepting that

I think you could get less production from a guy like Sam Fuld and pay him $500,000. You could then use the other $12.5 million to make a significant upgrade somewhere else.

The question is, i Dome worth 13 million. If not, you do what you can to get rid of him and try to spend the 13 million more wisely, however you can.

BTW you weren't proving Kosuke's market value

i.e. how much a player of his skills would be worth on the open market, you just listed a bunch of cost controlled players a few who aren’t very good and a few who are superstars who are worth 15 mil+ a season on the market.

I didn’t ask to find players as much as prove that isn’t his market value. You have done no such thing.

Prove me wrong.

Prove to me that a player of his skills

are worth 13 mllion on the open market. Im simply not sure how you go proving that.

If you dont think Fukudome is wildly overpaid, lets just agree to disagree

We can most certaintly do that.

I beg to differ

I think Kemp, Granderson, and Sizemore are all worth 13 million at least

Kosuke has the highest WAR on the team this season and his worth has been $13.3 MM.

An unbiased measure of player value disagrees with you on Kosuke’s value.

Then we should have no problem finding takers for him

Do you believe that? I highly doubt anyone would trade for Fuku without significant incentives, and i suspect they have good reasons for that.

Yes I do believe it.

You also said Kemp isn’t worth $13MM but he has a 5 WAR with the Dodgers this season and his value is $22.7 MM. Fangraphs is my source what is yours?

Ok

if you think there will be any off season interest in trading for Fukudome, then that is your opinion. I think it is wrong. I dont go into WAR and other statisical measures because I dont believe they tell the whole story. I do strongly suspect, however, that .274 platoon centerfielders with 11 homeruns, under 10 stolen bases and a 13 million dollar salary are not hot commodities.

I never said anything about trading Fukudome, just that you have understated his monetary value.

Players get paid by their production and Fukudome has produced for this team this year. My opinion is that Fukudome is having a great year and is playing up to his contract.

.274 with 11 home runs and under 10

stolen bases is a great year. Ill disagree with that

If you are going to use stats don't cherry pick. What's his OBP?

very high

its the one thing saving him from being extremely mediocre.

Milton Bradley has a high OBP as well, but he is not having a good year.

Kosuke is an average to above average center fielder, when used properly (i.e. platooned). He is being paid to be a star.

He's paid on average $12MM per year which isn't exactly star money in MLB.

I'll continue to say this...

…until I am blue in the face, but you’d be a fool to want to trade him if you could; he’s a ++defender with strong batting skills. If nothing more, he’s somebody you can build a lethal outfield around.

And while he hasn’t done it lately, Dome’s arm accuracy from the OF is can be lethal. Fonzi doesn’t have that, and neither does MB.

Tony Gwynn is perhaps the best right-fielder to have ever played the game, and he never put more than 17-homers in a season. The HR is overrated if you have a group of guys who can consistently hit the ball and run.

Well said.

Speed never slumps as they say. At least not in outfield defense.

speed never slumps and rust never sleeps

the funniest thinga bout this whole debate is

That Kosuke Fukudome is worth exactly 13.3 Mil dollars according to fangraphs this year. Season isn’t even over and he’s earned his paycheck.

Looks like you couldn’t prove me wrong.

Again

if fangraphs is the bible, then he might be worth what you say.

The fact that we wont be able to give the guy away suggests otherwise.

I was just having an argument for arguments sake lol

I know fangraphs isn’t the bible. Nor are statistics, there is so much more to the story. It’s just partially interesting that his fangraphs value is so close to the number you gave that’s all.

i can agree with that

im surprised by that. Fukudome’s value is certainly increased by his high obp.

Dont get me wrong i like Fukudome. His is the best contract of our starting outfielders. I think we could spend that money significantly better though.

I'm still trying to figure out

WHY we want to trade him.

No, the funniest thing about this is.....

If Kosuke wouldn’t have had such a horrible year last year we wouldn’t have had to go out and over spend on years for Milton Bradley and his contract. Now we are stuck with two bad contracts. Whether you like these guys, or you don’t, I would think that you probably would be in favor of getting rid of one of those contracts this off season.

PalatineRol - August 23, 2009 reply

Fukudome is actually playing up to the value of his contract. It's not a bad deal if he continues to produce the way he has this season.

Woo-hhoo! Facts!

Good job Ryan.

is that sarcastic?

If so im not sure why, please explain.

Since you don't accept the impartial statistic based worth of players could you tell us exactly what you think each of these guys are worth?

No, not at all.

I woulda added “/s”.

Me likes facts.

It's also fact that he listed cost-controlled players that haven't yet reached free agency.

You can’t compare the cost of a non-free agent player to what you are paying someone that was a free agent. If you look up the actual value of these players you would see they are worth more on the free agent market. As I pointed out before Matt Kemp’s production is worth $22.7 MM this season.

Fukudome "gets on base decently"?

Right now, the only player on the Cubs with a better OBP is Sam Fuld, and Dome’s had 300+ more PAs than Fuld.

You can only trade Soriano

if you eat much of his contract or package him with something of value. Even then it will be very difficult. An option the Cubs need to consider is simply eating the deal. I think, if no one will take him this offseason, you give him half the season to show some improvement. If he fails to do so, you eat his deal and move on.

I'm not sure what you mean by "eat the deal"

but if it means not playing a man that is being paid $18,000,000 a year for the next five years, that won’t happen.

it means eating the deal

not just not playing him, but releasing him outright. Its drastic, I recognize, but I simply do not think you can win with Soriano on the roster, playing like he has this year. And to play better, he will need to improve his plate discipline and approach dramatically. If he doesnt do that, you take the drastic measure for the good of the team.

Wow you must love fantasy baseball

and not watch much of the real stuff if you think that

A) They would eat 45 million dollars
B) Baseball teams do things for “the good of the team”

Soriano for Zito, straight up

CaliCub - August 23, 2009 reply

No thank you!

Even getting rid of Soriano is not worth Zito. Yuck!

Define "yuck"

j/k with the newbie. :-D

CaliCub - August 23, 2009 reply

lol

I just saw this...

…and I spit out my tea. You’re simply switching contracts at this point since both are worth exactly the same (Zito, however, gets $137-million with incentives and options), and you get a bad starting pitcher in the process. He’s 8-10 the last time I looked, with an ERA over 5.

No matter how much I want to get rid of this lazy bum

I am resigned to the fact that we are stuck with Soriano for a while.

You make some interesting points, what do you think about Koyie Hill?

I think that he's a great defensive catcher

He really calls a great game according to Lou and the pitching staff. I just don’t think you can accurately measure defense behind the plate statistically. I think the kind of leadership and defense he provides is utterly invaluable.

A calming influence on the staff. Needed especially with Z and Zambrano. Not so much Lilly, Dempster, Harden, and Wells.

we can agree on this

well said.

I meant Z and Marmol sorry.

Nats?

Maybe Washington would want ot make a big splash this off season by taking back Soriano……..
LOL at myself.

PalatineRol - August 23, 2009 reply

f troop

it was on carrie muskat’s blog when she posts about the lineup on 8/23.

gocubs1 - August 23, 2009 reply

never mind someone already said that

gocubs1 - August 23, 2009 reply

Somebody picking a fight with Pujols?

Link

I hate the Cardinals, but this seems like suicidal behavior. Albert is a rather large fellow.

cry more, albert

Large indeed

Probably steroids or something. Not saying it’s fact, but it’s certainly a possibility. It’s scientific fact that steroids help you in baseball and his numbers have been ridiculously consistent and awesome. I don’t have any evidence, but it’s reasonable to suspect him no?

I wouldn't open this can of worms

I know your new here, so I’ll give you a heads up. People don’t respond to well to steroid accusations. Yes, his numbers are ridiculous, but he has never been linked in any way to steroids.

Would this ignite a 400 comment flame war?

Its a difinite possibility

Yeah, that's definitely not...

…a can of worms you should open. It’s not even something I would consider; he’s been the same “size” for his entire career unlike, say, Bonds who put on about fifty pounds of muscle and starting putting dingers into McCovey Cove well into the autumn of his career.

He’s an intelligent player, and knows the game.

A-Rod was never bulked up during his career either. The eye test doesn't work but I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

Are you telling me my eyes lie?

How do you think scouts view a game with a computer?

heads up

the people here who normally yell steriods with no proof at all..

tend not to be respected here.

It's not flawless, but it's...

…a fairly good guesstimate. His production has been consistent throughout the years, and I haven’t seen anything else increase; i.e, he hasn’t suddenly gotten faster. Pujols is still as slow as ever.

Actually, A-Rod put on quite a bit of weight from his Mariner days

Nice

Ha!

lol

Well done.

So in between games,

these game threads become something of a message board no?
I remember the ESPN message boards. Those are just straight up awful. From what I’ve seen this place is so much better.

Rule #1 of Fight Club:

Do not talk about Fight Club.

Rule #2 of Fight Club:

Do not talk about Fight Club.

Rule #3 of Fight Club:

Fight Club is not a message board.

And for definition: These are game recaps. Game threads are during the game, and “may” contain more jovial banter (or yelling).

You might want to let him know the difference between a fanpost and a fanshot while you're at it.

No it's ok I read Al's posting guide.

If one thing was made abundantly clear, it was the difference between Fanposts and Fanshots.

You obviously invested a lot of time in your research then.

It was long I'll give you that.

I put into a word document so I could read it at my leisure. Came out to 20 pages, not too bad. About as long as a chapter of Heidegger almost as dense. lol I kid, I kid.

I will say that it was informative though

Props to Al for all that work he put into it.

Wow

Thats impressive.

According to BLou

This is a social organizing site that is frequented by losers looking to feel a sense of friendship. Granted, this is coming from a guy who repeatedly gets kicked off but begs to come back every time.

Ahhh... but what a site this used to be, right BLou?

I wonder how long he will stay away.

On the other hand, he has also called this a porn site. This accusation, which he posted last September, also started the world-famous “pornography thread,” which I discovered the other day.

Link.

Just scroll down and look at the craziness there. I haven’t laughed so hard in a while.

For those who were in that thread, you missed one:

STORMOGRAPHY!!!!

Oh no!!! I want my mommy!!!!

That was utterly hilarious

There really should be a section on the site for Epic Threads. That one would be a shoo-in.

I was on here by then, but I missed that one.

There needs to be some way to link to that on the front page.

Right up there with

Eric Hanna!

104 recommends for that post, you can’t beat that.

Comments For This Post Are Closed

why must life be so cruel…

I was wondering that for the FanPost I referenced.

Check above, I have another -ography for them.

that was

an awesome thread.

I think Marmol has finally settled down, when was the last time he walked someone?

i think Marmol was just rebelling until he got Closer’s role. He’s been the old marmol lately

You really think he was purposely walking and hitting batters so they would make him closer? That makes little to no sense.

One would think he would have been trying to show he deserved the closer’s role by pitching well instead of being so erratic and inconsistent.

it was a joke.....

Sorry. You definitely had me fooled. Unfortunately I've seen people seriously suggest things like that.

lol no i'm not very "baseball smart" but im definitely not that dumb.

I’m a psych major. i’d hope i’d have a better grasp on human behavior and motivation than that

You never know....;)

just commenting on how up until just before he actually got closer's role did he become the marmol of old

Wasn't today his first opportunity as the closer?

yes, but the past week or so

he’s been set up like always, but he’s been good. it roughly (ROUGHLY) corresponds to Gregg’s extra suckiness

i remember in july when he was good

and then crapped the bed

didnt he still walk everyone nad their mother in july though, just was able to get out of those situations. I dont relly remember july a whole lot

no he was good for a week or two

His performance went to crap

Last July, as well. Perhaps there’s a trend there…

Rothschild

one maybe a pitching coach worth a damn would have caught on to by now.

Naw...

…that’s too much to ask.

The last time he walked someone was August 11.

Link

Since then, no walks (knock on wood).

Best Performance of the Year by Marmol

I think so, after checking Baseball-Reference gamelogs for the year.

Consistently ahead in the count on all 3 batters he faced; Furcal, Ethier & Ramirez.
Three up, three down.
Struck out Manny looking to end it.
In a hostile stadium packed with screaming Dodgers fans.

After his previous implosions this year he was indeed the Marmol of old, at least for this game.

A tip of the hat to Carlos!

JFCubFan - August 23, 2009 reply

He K'ed Ethier and Ramirez with sliders

When he can locate his slider, it’s as nasty as it’s ever been. When he can’t, he’ll grudgingly go to his fastball and then overthrow it. So when he’s good, he’s very, very good, but when he’s bad, he’s horrid.

Soriano, Bradley, Miles and Gregg...

would they then become the “F-This Troop”?

Good name for them I like it.

The combined ineptitude of those 4 players are staggering.

Resisting the urge to point out how Bradley in now way belongs in this group.

: : : deep breaths : : :

AndrewJStone - August 24, 2009 reply

quite

yes, he does

…not because I don’t think he’s productive, although his season is disappointing under anyone’s standards. But if the F-Troop are in the game… it means these guys aren’t. Right? I just threw in Kevin Gregg for good measure.

Or

The F Minus Troop

nice

I’d go with that for the G-rated version.

+1

I think ballhawk should start using that one next!

Remember our last F-Troop, in 2000?

Fassero, Farnsworth, Flash Gordon

Didn’t work too well :(

or 2001

Poor Gordo:

Trip from hell keeps getting worse. LAX security just declared my 8 yr-old’s new snow globe contraband.

Holy crap

That’s ridiculous!

That's LAX

Those who complain about relatively minor hellholes like Newark or DFW have obviously never had to go through security at LAX.

I went through a few hours ago

no problems… this time

How long was the wait?

about 10 minutes

I have that joint figured out

PacificCub - August 24, 2009 reply

I kind of like LAX security

They often actually enforce the carry on rules BEFORE you get the plain and tell people your bag does NOT meet the requirement or you can’t have two big bags etc. Airlines are reluctant to do this so getting carry on luggage stored is what really leads to delays and anger these days. I am taking a VERY late RedEye in about 3 weeks from LAX. Never had a problem.

"lax" security - freudian slip?

gordo wittenmeyer: terrorist in disguise?

I swear Syracuse has the TOUGHEST Airport security

I was going through security 2 years ago and they stop me for a LIP GLOSS. Even worse azjazzman ( we were both attending a festival dedicated to silent and early films) got stopped and they told him he had liquid in his LAPTOP. He thought they were nuts but finally they found a itty bitty one eighth of an ounce of moisturizer that had been in some overnight kit from a Virgin flight. ONE EIGHTH OF AN OUNCE. Swear most thorough security I pass through.

what has this world come too..

jesus christos - August 24, 2009 reply

MDW > BIL

I haven’t been through LAX in a while, but recently I made a round-trip from Billings to Midway. I had about 10 harmonicas in separate cases in my carry-on. In Billings they flagged the bag and an officer checked every single one by hand. On the way home at Midway one of the checkers flagged it, then another came over to the screen, said to me, “So are you a jazz man or a blues man?” I replied, “Blues and folk,” and he sent the bag on through.

aldimond - August 24, 2009 reply

Was in Dallas for work (and to catch a Rangers game) so going through security at DFW

my carryon bag goes through and the guy watching the screen stops it, calls somebody over, they both look at the screen and then they pull my bag aside. Mind you, this is probably 15 yrs ago, well before all the extra security precautions, so I have no idea what’s going on. Meanwhile a third guy comes over, opens bag a little and starts to smile.

He says something like “What, deep dish pizza isn’t good enough for you?”

Then it clicked, and I laughed. “Hey, Chicago doesn’t have anything like this.” Yep, they had found my stash of 3 neatly stacked and wrapped DoubleWhataburgers…