Bleed Cubbie Blue

Couldn't agree more on the play at the plate

This team is a whisker away from being completely out of it. FIRE UP YOUR TEAM IN SOME WAY, ANY WAY

mgrace17 - August 27, 2009 reply

ONE WORD: PATHETIC

To lose 2 out of 3 with what’s on the line? TO THE FREAKING NATIONALS?

Time to start thinking 2010 because this is officially over.

Embarrassing game…..Embarrassing season….

Freddyd - August 27, 2009 reply

Re: Play at the plate going unargued

It’s pretty useless to argue a play, right? There’s a widely-used phrase in Spanish: “Discutele al ampayer,”—or “argue with the umpire” using a sarcastic tone—that makes you think twice about trying to change something that’s unchangeable.

I realize an argument with the umps may fire up the team and what not, but is it really worth it? It’s as pointless as booing, no?

Not always... you could hope for the ever present makeup call!

I've never seen a call overturned in baseball,

other than HRs or ground-rule doubles. Never a judgement call.

No, the point isn't to overturn the play...

… which isn’t going to happen. Firing up the team may or may not work.

It’s showing you’re a leader and supporting your team when a call goes against them. Lou sat there. That’s not leadership.

Maybe he actually wanted to stay in the game and manage.

Maybe that wasn't the right thing to do in that situation.

AL,

actions always speak louder than words, Lou is either handcuffed or is not interested.

Listen the gig is up, Rickets is coming in and will make key decisions—-okay Kenney stays because he is about the cash flow for now. But product management and product marketing and operations are the purview of the check signer.

I vote for Tony, Lou is good but Tony is better and his contract is up. That means another GM too, but the bottom line is no nonsense.

Ivy Walls - August 27, 2009 reply

As for Bradley and Soriano

Lou lost them. Tell Bradley not to come till Sept one and go with 24.

Ivy Walls - August 27, 2009 reply

why would we give Bradley basically four days off, then play him again

I’m confused as to what that would accomplish

bobby cox gets ejected all the time

i guess he doesnt like to manage ballgames

He manages better from the clubhouse

Note to Bobby: Retire, already.

Clutch16 - August 28, 2009 reply

Maybe he had a chance to show his team he gave a shit

guess what he showed; he didn’t give a shit.

Sorry folks, he looks just like Dusty did at this time in 2006. And it’s happened somewhat quickly (compared to Dusty).

Yep

Well, that would be a first.

Goodie1969 - August 27, 2009 reply

you can argue a call without getting ejected

I agree with Al, some show that Lou actually has some fight left in him would go a lot farther than saying the right things.

Yeah, of course

But it’s painfully clear now that Piniella is not the leader of this club. It doesn’t look like there’s anyone pulling them in the same direction. Therefore, my comment about the point of arguing.

Now, I didn’t see the play nor have seen it yet. Was it obvious Lee was safe? Because I was under the impression it was a close call and initially nobody felt robbed.

It's obvious who the leader of this team was...and we traded him away.

Ronny Cedeno.

Hey now! Ronny got us Heilman.....

and if he gets traded

heilman might get us a bag of balls!

the crown of leadership is passed on, yet again..

Crown his ass then!

He was who we thought he was...

… and we let him off the hook.

I'd take a used infield rake for Heilman.

I didn't know you wanted in!

You’ve been appointed to a managing role of the Aaron Heilman Sucks Fanclub, even though it could disband in the very near future.

Instructions will follow.

No, it won't disband...

… just move on to some other team.

Well, I'll sell them the rights and buy you all a beer

rename it the aaron miles sucks fanclub if heilman does get booted

nji has the rights to that one.

You can combine

with the “just say no to Aarons” club

We could use some Diamond Dry

a couple of 50 lb. bags.

mrcubsfan - August 27, 2009 reply

you are over the top

with your heilman-hate,al

brian custer - August 27, 2009 reply

I miss onedec

Yes.

Bard tagged him with his glove, but the ball wasn’t in the glove at the time.

I can't imagine how it felt in the crowd

when the call was as egregious as that.

At the time we saw the play...

… it did look like he was tagged, obviously, from where I was, I couldn’t tell the ball wasn’t in the glove.

That's what I asked above

Maybe the visiting player duped the whole stadium, including the players involved. Maybe that’s why there was no argument.

It makes people happier to say Lou doesn't care than to consider he may not have been able to see the runner was safe. Don't spoil their fun.

This.

I don’t think Lee knew that the ball wasn’t in the glove. If Lee had known this and made this case I think we may have seen an argument from Lou.

aldimond - August 27, 2009 reply

Bingo

Trey2317 and I discussed it in the Game Thread at the time. It was an unfortunate, but forgivable error on the part of the umpire.

I’m pretty sure no one in the stadium knew that DLee was actually safe. Not the ump, not Lou, not even Derrek himself.

Clutch16 - August 28, 2009 reply

Burnett or Bard?

I believe the phantom tag was applied by the pitcher Burnett and not the catcher Bard.

AlSpangler - August 27, 2009 reply

Burnett was the guy guarding the plate

And applying the “tag”

Clutch16 - August 28, 2009 reply

Piniella was standing up and

he’s not looking at a replay and lee looks out b/c the throw beat him there…

it’s a bang-bang call but Lou from his vantage was probably blocked…

EamuCanoli - August 27, 2009 reply

I've wondered more than once this season...

if Lou might not be suffering from other serious problems we don’t know about. I find the apparent change in his demeanour hard to fathom otherwise. He does not always make the impression of being well, and if this is the case, then it is hard to criticise him for wanting to hang on to his “normal” life. But, when and if he damages the team, then he ought to be man enough to step down.

Lou’s possible health problems would not release any of the players in any fashion from the responsibility of having played a sub-standard season.

From the get go...

…Lou said he was not the same guy that would go out and throw bases etc. etc. from the very day he signed with the Cubs. For the most part, he has been true to the statement and clearly handles most circumstances with more patience.

I am sure he told Hendry the samething before he signed, but I don’t think for a minute that the losses don’t kill him, he just handles it in a different fashion.

To me, he seems a bit tired and it may be time for him to walk away. I do think he has built up enough equity to be paid for his last year, and you may see a behind the scenes agreement out of respect to Piniella, so they don’t have to publically fire him and I believe he has earned that as well.

MPH73 - August 28, 2009 reply

ACK

I believe he has earned that as well.

So do I.

When I talk about the change in his demeanour, I was referring the last months and not the more distant past. He does appear to be exhausted and I hope that this not a sign of a health problem.

I don't think it's health...

…I think he is frustrated on many many fronts, and not all of those being with just the players.

At his age, I just don’t think he has the energy to respond to the frustration like he did 10 years ago, but it’s not because he doesn’t care.

I wonder what the core group of players think about this whole thing, and whether they have had any player only meetings when one or two have stepped up and said “we suck” and the responsibility is all ours?

Player only meetings can be overdone, but in a year like this, you would hope the players would find it necessary to have at least one – “lay it on the table” type meeting.

MPH73 - August 28, 2009 reply

The problem with that core group of players doing that...

…. is that there don’t seem to be any player leaders on this year’s team.

VillanuevaExperience - August 28, 2009 reply

That's not a good thing...

…a good bit of your leadership needs to come from your teamates, and it’s a problem if you don’t have guys who step up.

MPH73 - August 28, 2009 reply

This team hasn't shown

heart in the past two weeks. Do you really think Lou yelling and screaming would change this? This is like the fire and passion arguement from Ditka fans.

Remember when Lou was ejected on the play at third base in 2007?

It was largely credited for “turning the season around.” Not that it would have a similar effect this year, but I’m just sayin’…

DKT - August 27, 2009 reply

i was at that game

it was great.

I was at that game

and the Cubs still lost.

But back then, Piniella still held the reins and was the leader of that group. I wouldn’t venture the same statement about today’s group.

Not when the leader of your team is up there.

The Cubs have a history of going on winning streaks after Lou “blow-ups”. The only way we make the playoffs is pulling off a long winning streak. It can’t hurt at this point.

mgrace17 - August 27, 2009 reply

Nothing is going to put this team in the playoffs, that's just wishful thinking.

I think Lou knows what all of us know.

this is a disfunctional team and nothing he can do or say is going to change what he is working with. I know we have too many long term contracts, but if Lou is indeed coming back, he will have a say in what he needs to compete.

mrcubsfan - August 27, 2009 reply

The 2009 Chicago Cubs

I've become hypnotized

These gifs really mess me up.

So is it crushed by a giant invisible foot?

Must be SOME giant!

Zeke - August 27, 2009 reply

pretty much.

Very saddening

Lou just sits in the dugout like Dusty now.

Its time for him to go home.

I'm starting to agree with this notion.

Sadly, yes. I think Lou realizes his "message" is no longer heard by the team.

He’s quit trying. Is there any wonder the team has followed suit?

Zeke - August 27, 2009 reply

See? I insist. Lou is Dusty in disguise. Really.

+1

Lee was called out and no amount of arguing by Lou would have changed that.

I would much rather have Lou in the dugout actually managing in a close game than getting pointlessly thrown out for arguing a call that wouldn’t be changed. At this point I guess Al is just going to take every opportunity to bash Lou.

Bash him?

Hardly, I’ve been a supporter of him. The point is to show your team that you’ve got their backs when a call goes against them. It’s not pointless; I have a hard time understanding why you can’t see this.

Since it's become apparent that this team is done you've been ever more critical of Lou. You have even claimed that his employment should depend on the last 40 games.

And it's wrong to hold that opinion?

Oh, yes, wait, I forgot. Some people here apparently feel having opinions is wrong.

Are you changing the argument?

You said bash him? and i pointed out how I think you are bashing him. You then go on this straw man about me saying you shouldn’t have an opinion. I don’t agree with your opinion that Lou should be judged based upon the next 40 games. Personally, my opinion is that he should be judged by his entire performance as a Cubs manager but I could be 100% wrong.

I love the stat geek crowd's comment...

… every time I say something they don’t agree with, it’s a “straw man”. In your words, (dying laughing).

You should know as well as I do that managing is a “what have you done for me lately” position. Great, he helped the team make the postseason twice.

This year he has seemed bored and uninterested most of the time. I disagree with your opinion, but you are welcome to express it here.

So now I'm a geek? What's with the personal attacks?

Let's end this right here.

Apologies for that. I expressed an opinion about Lou Piniella and you called it “bashing” him, which it was not.

"Stat Geek" is offensive?

Hell call me a geek, they make money and smart guys get the chicks

as a long time geek

let me just say that I agree. Bow-chikka-WOW-WOW!

When did this board get overrun with people getting their feelings hurt?

GAWD.

Milton Bradley is their hero

Let's not restart that thread, please

No

I was playing off SWL’s comment.

don't you mean "offended"?

:^)

The Minute we signed Milton Bradley.

Ron Trauma - August 28, 2009 reply

Geek is a compliment, it implies intelligence and education.

Yes those WS rings he got the Cubs should speak for him!

How did he get?

Well he did at least win a playoff series right?

I’m not sure you want to use his entire career here as the measuring stick for success.

Should read How many did he get?

he took the Cubs

to two back-to-back Division titles. A feat which had not been accomplished for over 100 years.

Even more

He instilled a winning attitude. They went the next step, to expecting to have a winning season, and doing something about it – having some pride.

The old attitude was to give up on a season pretty early, because these were the Cubs.

If you don’t recognize progress unless the championship has been landed, then you won’t build a road to get there.

No not wrong. You can have them.

But others can have opinions too and their opinion could be that your opinion shouldn’t be respected. Doesn’t means it’s wrong, it mean’s they think it’s a bad opinion.

Is that a Yogi Berra quote?

Arguing shows the manager has some balls

which apparently Lou has had his cut off. He’s no longer a bull, he’s a steer.

Ask Lou

how is has done this year. I am sure he would be honest and said he has not done well at all.

Grockcubs - August 27, 2009 reply

No.....it would be....

“Look, what do you want me to say?”

+1

It’ll be some bullshit politician response.

I'll be the first to admit Lou hasn't been dealt the greatest hand this season.

What with injuries and down years by some key veterans. But even at full strength, he’s made some questionable personnel moves as well as in-game decisions.

It’s not the same Lou of the last 2 seasons. I don’t have a clue why.

And that is

ultimately what Lou should be judged on for future years. I am not one to judge him on isolated incidents. However, all too often his decisions have not made good baseball sense. Yes, he did a fine job in the past. But he seems to have lost his passion and sense of urgency.

I’d enjoy seeing either Trammel or Brenley run the team next year. Ultimately Ricketts will have to decide how quickly he wants to put his stamp on things. Since the payroll fairly well defines next year’s squad, his initial opportunity to make this a Ricketts club is through management changes and organizational improvements. It says “this is my team” without breaking payroll limitations. The appropriate change starts at the top by changing the President and allowing him to get a new GM who is then allowed to choose a new manager. But only Ricketts knows what his sense of ownership entails.

I wonder if

this is one of the guys who said Lou needed to flip out back in June to light a fire under his team.

camnorris14 - August 27, 2009 reply

It would be nice to have a manager

who looked like he wanted to be there. Also one that did not make line-ups according to their salary.

Which lineup would be the one that would make this team better than the Cardinals this year?

One with Fox in it for one.

Soriano should not play. If he is hurt, he should be on the DL. If he isn’t, he just sucks and does not deserve playing time.

But the front office did quite a bit of damage on their own.

Its been rehashed enough, but the Cubs were made worse and the Cards GM has made them better.

Interesting. You think Jake Fox playing every day would make the Cubs better than the Cardinals.

What does Lou have to do to “look like he wanted to be there?” He is often times seen pacing the dugout and yelling at his assistants. He is usually up at the railing watching the game as well. You don’t know what Lou is thinking or feeling by looking at him and neither do I.

Now, I agree with you about Fox.

Jake Fox is not the future of this team nor would it help them win more games if he played in place of Soriano.

So “pacing the dugout” and “yelling at his assistants” is what could fire up his team?

I didn't say it would make them better than the Cards

Just a better option than Soriano

Especially if he's hurt

I would agree...

except for the fact that Fox is hitting baseballs better than Soriano right now.

For the rest of this season, you really think Soriano would put up better numbers than Fox

if somehow they would have equal opportunities?

ballhawk - August 27, 2009 reply

You seem to fail to understand what I said.

The other commenter said that Lou needs to look like he wants to be there. I pointed out that often times he is very animated in the dugout. Wouldn’t that fit his definition of “looking like he wants to be there?” He could sit there like a post and it wouldn’t change my opinion of him as a Manager. Lou knows how to do his job and acting like a crazed fool doesn’t prove he’s doing his job better.

Today was a time to be animated

He blew it pure and simple. Think I’ll just call him Dusty II.

You know how his players react when he gets animated? They laugh.

The players admit that they think it’s funny when Lou starts throwing a temper tantrum on the field. They literally Laugh Out Loud. Now you are welcome to think Lou getting animated will make his players better at baseball but they think it’s a joke.

And you know this how?

Because I've heard them say it in televised and radio interviews. I've heard Derrek Lee and Theriot both laugh about Lou's on field antics.

Maybe they say different things in private.

You don’t know and neither do I. I just felt the manager should have been out there today. You don’t. That’s your right.

You don't have to believe me but I have heard them say this publicly in interviews. I'm not talking about what they say behind closed doors just to clarify.

people say a lot of things to the media

not all of its true

Take Milton Bradley for example...

Ok, you can believe it fires them up and makes them better at baseball even though they say it is funny to them.

im not saying i think it fires them up

im just saying its extremely stupid to believe everything people say

Where did I say or even imply that I believed everything people say?

This is ridiculous. Were you trying to stick up for Al? Was that your point? I’m sure he can do just fine for himself.

Ok, you can believe it fires them up and makes them better at baseball even though they say it is funny to them.

i guess im reading that in a completely different way

I don't see the words, "I believe everything people say."

Since what they say contradicts what you want to believe you then change the argument, I find that extremely stupid. (To use your words.) You don’t have to believe them but they said it, that’s my only point.

Since what they say contradicts what you want to believe you then change the argument

im not saying i think it fires them up

So, you're not saying it fires them up but you also don't want to believe them when they say it's funny?

I guess you are going to dispute whatever I say even if you don’t disagree with me? As I said before I don’t think Al needs you to jump in and defend his point.

Here's the real point though.

The best manager is worth 1 win. Maybe one at best. The best get payed the value of a 1 win player, that’s what front offices think about them. At this point Lou doing something might make you feel better, but it won’t change what’s happening this season.

BUT LOU DOESN'T HAVE THE FIRE AND THE PASSION!!!!! HE SUCZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

I KNWZZ!!

HE CANZT HAZ PAZZZIONZZ!!!!

Having experienced

a lifetime of watching the Cubs play, that urban legend does not even come close to the truth. Compare LaRussa with Dusty or 2009 Lou and tell me you don’t want a redo.

I have as well

How can you blame them – it almost looks forced this year

And if that's true, that's good.

Laughter loosens you up.

People whose sphincters are clenched tight enough to crush diamonds don’t laugh. Case in point: did you see a lot of laughing going on in the dugout in last year’s playoffs? I know I didn’t.

Goodie1969 - August 27, 2009 reply

So that is a good thing?

Having players laugh and disrepect their manager?

I would say time to get a new Manager.

Fox

Maybe, he’s the real deal. I’ve used to think of him as a AAAA player. I don’t think he’ll be an all-star, but he doesn’t need to be that good to be an improvement over what most of the Cubs have done this season.

I agree with Al

Fox = Shane Spencer

Right now...Shane Spence would be better hitting 6th for us.

Maybe right now, with Soriano refusing to admit that he's injured

But in the long run, not so much

The big difference

is Jake Fox at least acts like he wants to play…. too many of our players act like they want to be somewhere else or looking forward to the offseason……… which will come too soon this year….

There is enough criticism to go around without resorting to randomly questioning the player's motivation.

Mainly this year is just awful luck. The true talent level of this team is about a 91 win team. That might be good enough for the wild card if things went just normally. If they played above their heads they would have won the division.
Soto’s under performance/ injury, Soriano’s under performance/injury, Zambrano’s injury, Lilly’s injury, Dempster’s injury, Ramirez’s injury.

Injuries are one of the causes this year, but I think it’s important to understand randomness is one of the hallmarks of baseball. A ball, after it’s hit, has lots of luck involved in where it falls. This the ultimate sport of probability and you know what shit happens, that’s how this year can be summed up. Hendry made the right moves with the information he had at the time. In hindsight, they were the wrong moves.

No point getting this upset over it.

I dunno. Our pythag has us as pretty crappy. We’re “underperforming” by about a sixth of a game, but that’s nothing.

That's one kind of luck.

Injuries/ under performance based on pre-season projections is another.
So while the team they have fielded in terms of this season aren’t under performing, compared to what each player would do over the course of a normal season, factoring in aging, they are way, way under.

wat

People are having bad seasons compared to their norms.

If they were having career average seasons, the Cubs would be in this.
This is mainly due to randomness in baseball.

Or....

the 2008 Cubs had career years. Which is the case.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2008.shtml

In 2008... not all of them

Dempster probably did. DeRosa did. Fontenot almost certainly did. Soto – we’ll see.

But Aramis had a slight down year. DLee had a definite down year. Dome had a horrid down half-year. Z had a down year.

DGU - August 27, 2009 reply

I've discussed this time and time again, so I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time rehashing myself:

But, in 2008, out of our top 10 most regular starters (most PAs), 7 / 10 had OPS+ of 110 or greater. SEVEN! And the other three were in the 90s.

And in 2008, our of our top 14 most regular pitchers (most IPs), 12 / 14 had ERA+ of 100 or greater, and 6 of those had ERA+ greater than 120!

So yes, the vast vast vast majority of our team had what I would define as career years. Years that either were the best they’ve ever had (thus far), or years that were very very very good.

Dan

Compare:

In 2009, we have 3 / 10 starters with OPS+ 110 and 5 below 90, some really really below 90. Fox doesn’t really have enough PAs to qualify for my fake analysis.

Pitching isn’t the point I was trying to make here, but for shits-n-giggles, in 2009, we have 9 / 12 pitchers with ERA+ 100.

The question, though, is not whether the team was good last year.

The question is whether it was better than you could reasonably expect.

And so, DLee’s OPS+ was the lowest it had been since he was 23. Aramis’ OPS+ was above his career average, but below both his 2007 and 2009.

So, yes, a lot of players had very good years, but that’s because we have a lot of good players.

DGU - August 27, 2009 reply

We're not getting any younger, not at all.

Even the guys on the brink are well into their later 20s. There’s a great article out there by either James or FanGraphs or BP about players’ peak age, but I can’t remember who wrote it at the moment. My point being that we are NOT going to see 2008 production again, not from these players. Not even close.

The window’s closed.

Or....

the 2008 Cubs had career years. Which is the case.

Exactly

We were overperforming last year and underperforming this one. That would suggest next year should be somewhere in the middle and reqire gentle nudging, not wholesale changes.

No, it isn't the case.

Buzz’s opinion on career averages have to do with career averages. By career averages, he’s implying that averages they have had since they’ve been in the major leagues. By major leagues, I’m implying the MLB. I’m just making sure I’m clear.

It’s fair to say, especially with the baseball players at the end of their 20s, to their early-to-mid 30s, that they will stay within their averages. This is without considering decline in some areas, which are projected in projections.

So in short, Buzz’s

opinion was correct

Thank you for confirming an opinion.

I’m in the process of changing Wikipedia to reflect your fact.

Oh dude, you don't need to change Wikipedia

You just need to change your stance to make it right

o.0

Soriano...

how can you say that? How can you say this team wouldn’t win more games with Soriano playing as bad as he has this year sitting on the bench whether it’s Jake Fox or Sam Fuld out in left field. How can you possibly argue that point? Enough to catch the Cardinals? Not by itself, but the Cubs would win more games just on that change alone.

jameslcrockett - August 27, 2009 reply

for what it's worth

Fox went 0-4 in the game he played this series.

Gee, that makes me feel better.

just saying

perceptions can be clouded.

Fox isn't a very good player.

He’s a cub fan hero.

How many hits does Soriano have in his last 10 games compared to Jake Fox?

Obviously Jake Fox is the better player then.

I understand now.

Over the last 10 games? Yes.

Over the last 10 years? NO.

Since a 10 game sample means nothing,

your point is pretty irrelevant

How many of those games would Fox have helped us win?

How many games out of first were we 10 games ago?

alright, it's pretty damn easy to say Fox has had a much better season

over 100 games a better sample size. We’re talking about who to play in order to win games. Can you honestly, with a straight face, say Soriano is the better choice?

From the looks of things

It seems debatable

Maybe not

but Fox is certainly having the better success right now.

No one seems to care about "right now".

Stats say to keep letting Sori ~~fail~~ play.

Well

he has one more hit in the series. Dunno about the last 10 games.

he also recently went 4-4

when was the last time Soriano did that?

I’ll save you the trouble of looking it up. September 6th, 2008

Soriano has had two games this year where he’s had three hits. Fox has had three. Four if you count the four hit game.

Jake Fox may not be the future of the Cubs, but people who claim he shouldn’t be playing instead of Soriano right now absolutely confound me. They’re basing it on nothing other than some strange belief, that despite Soriano having a horrendous season, he’ll magically turn it around with a month to play.

Soriano

has an extensive record of slumping then streaking.

Now, all this information about his knee, and having tendonitis since MAY; that shows that the whole situation has been very poorly handled, if it’s true.

Won't make them better than the Cardinals

but it will make them better than the Cubs.

it would be nice to have players that want to be there

DC Cubbie - August 27, 2009 reply

And it would be a nice to have a team that shows up every day ready to play

That’s what Championship teams do. They never give up an out. They demoralize teams like the Nationals. What the hell happened between the Cubs’ four game sweep in Washington and now?? Seriously, it’s so hard to watch them going through the motions.

DKT - August 27, 2009 reply

Ryan Theriot, who used to be so good at hitting the other way last year, could have tied the game with one of those flares to right that he used to hit with regularity. Instead, he grounded to third.

those were better times..

I agree

but hey

atleast he hit 7 sofar meaningless home runs!

That's not fair either though.

Him going the other way could still have resulted in outs. It might be a more successful strategy, but it wouldn’t have gaurenteed a difference. His slight increase in slugging is also nice this year though.

fuld was at second

he would have been at third or scored on a hit to RF

I think the point is

Theriot for the last couple of months is trying to drive the ball, at least it appears. His game is right and right center.

Grockcubs - August 27, 2009 reply

Lou wanted more home runs/power from him

Remember that….rright b4 his torried HR streak??

kcjones - August 27, 2009 reply

I'd be much happier if he didn't blow two double plays in the same inning

He's an above average SS.

not disagreeing with you there

Just had a crappy game today

He is a pretty good SS

As b said. Just had a bad game. But not blowing those DP balls would have been nice.

He is a pretty good SS

wut?

What he is.

It’s an objective fact. He’s a good shortstop

I want a GREAT sshortstop

kcjones - August 27, 2009 reply

a great shortstop that can move to his left

um, no

DC Cubbie - August 27, 2009 reply

If your saying he's not a good shorstop, then your wrong.

This is not an opinion this is a statement of fact. Subjectively, I used to think he was a crappy SS to, but he’s not.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3811&position=SS#fielding

is this more of your brilliant satire?

Did I make up fangraphs or something?

No my Brilliant satire ended a while ago when this Bradley junk started.

Riot

went 1-13 this series.

Hey, what can Lou say? He likes Leadoff hitters who don't take pitches

and struggle getting hits

and he saw maybe 30 pitches the whole series

30 is being generous

"lean on the veterans" sounds VERY Dusty like

I truly don't understand

why he’s doing that. Go with the hot hands if we’re still fighting. If we’re out of it, showcase younger players, either to see where they might fit for us next year or as possible trade pieces.

PLAYOFFS?????

Yeah, remember....those games we play after the regular season that Milton is supposed to help us win.

Guilty!

I am guilty of looking towards game #163. I admit it, it’s my fault…!

I've said it before and I'll say it again

he only needed 100 games to start warming up, get off his back. I mean all Number 2 hitters in the league make 30 million, right?

Playoffs? Playoffs??!!

Ah, the Bills coach rant (forgot his name right now).

Jim Mora

I’m pretty sure he was the Colts coach

mgrace17 - August 27, 2009 reply

yep - Colts

ballhawk - August 27, 2009 reply

Boy can't argue with that pic....

yikes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwq7BYOnDrM

Much better...

… to link to the whole version than the piddly part that made the beer commercial.

Underrated quote: “In my opinion, that sucked.”

How 'bout former Bills coach

is that right? Yikes…now I know I don’t follow football much.

Marv Levy

He could at least get the Bills to the Super Bowl. Jim Mora, Sr. was never able to get a team to the Super Bowl.

It's over Johnny!

Math aside, the Cubs are going nowhere. Who cares if Lou argues the call. This team is dead – lifeless. The season has gotten so bad I’ve started wondering if Kevin Gregg and Sean Marshall are the same person just with and without glasses. It could explain why both their (his) arm(s) suck so bad right now. No Superman analogy however, because, well they are terrible.

Gregg pitched a 1-2-3 inning today.

Today he did! But where was Sean???....hmmmm

whut?

you know that the manager decides who pitches and who doesn’t, right?

WHOOSH

That would be some parade!

Those guys have some great rides. Let’s wait till Reed can press the gas pedal.

Maybe Harden for Gregg

Wait…we already got him

actually

he pitched two, didn’t he?

What a sorry-ass excuse for a team

I saw the replay. What an awful call.

There was a large group of folks from my company going to the game, luckily I stayed at work.

The stands look like late-2006 all over again. Granted the rain threat figured in but this series was far from sold out.

I’m going Saturday, hopefully the outcome will be different.

Cubs manager Piniella: ‘Blame me’

Yes we do!

what's funny is later on in that article, he blames about five other factors

so when he says “blame me” what he’s really saying is “I’M A VICTIM OF MEAN PEOPLE!”

Just an embarrassment.

For the most part the season rides on winning series, as mentioned by Cub players, and when the season is at its most important juncture they can’t even beat the Nats.
Good point Al about Lou. Whether you can over turn the call or not ( which won’t happen), show some life Lou, get in the umps face, take one for the team.
I would love to entertain the idea of trying to trade Theriot in the offseason. Could you please take a pitch once in awhile as a leadoff hitter. This is where Lou has failed. Dome never should of left the leadoff spot.
My opinion, when the Phils spanked the Cubs in Wrigley, this team doubted itself from that point on.
I would love to have Harden back, but who knows, with so many bad contracts, I can’t see the Cubs taking a gamble on him. They sure in the hell took a gamble with Dempster and Bradley, but they won’t with Harden.
Just a shame of Team.

Grockcubs - August 27, 2009 reply

I think the Cubs organization is thinking about 2010 right now.

I think they are planning the offseason as we speak. They are all sitting around a round table playing poker with cigars in their mouths discussing about how to fix this team for next year. I think this explains why Lou isn’t firery, they are thinking about next year instead of the remaining year.

I hope so

I hope that’s why guys are on the waiver wire. It will be interesting to see what is offered for Harden

Is the proper protocol

when a team claims someone as pathetic as Heilman to ask for a player in exchange? And then when they don’t offer one, you tell them to take him?

Or does asking for a player deny you the right to dropkick the baggage away?

tim815 - August 27, 2009 reply

they could ask for a PTBNL....

…and then conveniently ask for roster filler in low A ball in the spring.

2009

Will be just another season where we can note that we were in first place on a certain date late in the season only to finish pathetically. It’s not just Lou who lacks energy…. It’s really the whole team. They can make the nice pregame quotes (as noted in the pregame thread) but that’s not translating to performance.

cubbiefanTN - August 27, 2009 via mobile reply

Like 1977 and 2001

I hope the Cubs finish over .500 in 2009.

That's our WS right there...to finish above .500.

They should get a small parade or something for that. Maybe they can all just drive in their cars one time around Wrigley after the last game and throw candy.

82-80

I don’t know if the Cubs are going to get to the 82 victory mark this season.

why not

they had a city wide RALLY when they simply made the gorram playoffs.

The rally is mandated by MLB and every playoff city has one. It was not unique to the Cubs.

meh

that doesn’t negate the lameness.

I agree, I think it's beyond lame.

Now on THIS you and I are in complete agreement.

I have never gone to any such event, nor would I.

It seems to be a meathead/bandwagon gathering

Just to clarify I'm talking about the parade.

Thanks for the clarification.

and you make another regretful, insulting comment

lol

How about you contribute something that isn't insulting?

Sad life —> yours

What a sad life indeed I must lead.

Gorram??

Are you a Firefly fan? :)

CubsWin!Oregon - August 27, 2009 reply

You have no idea. :-)

That phrase doesn’t get used enough.

Shiney!

Browncoats?

damn straight.

:)

I love that show too (and especially the ladies of that show). :) sigh

I keeping hoping for the news that they’ve decided to do another season and/or movie.

CubsWin!Oregon - August 28, 2009 reply

Firefly reference ?

Southside Steve - August 27, 2009 reply

uh huh

the world needs more firefly don’t you think?

and with that… i’ll be in my bunk.

night, all.

Excellent

Think I’ll watch an episode or two now

Southside Steve - August 27, 2009 reply

Not nearly enough Firefly

Turn it green!

the outfield & jim hendry

I think they should put the starting outfield on waivers, maybe they will get lucky and have them picked up. then they can get some real players who can hit & field. fire the GM who took apart a 97 win team

almost everyone on the team is on waivers

yeah, that's sound management there.

most veterans get placed on waivers after the deadline

you only hear about it when a claim is filed though.

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/8/22/998532/time-to-dfa-cries-of-dfa-and

again with the waivers stuff...

vonde6 - August 27, 2009 reply

And fire the fan

who misuses the phrase “took apart.”

Does anybody think the plug is going to be pulled on Soriano soon,

The season is pretty much over and if he is hurt why not start the healing process sooner?

agreed

Goodbye

No. It won't be pulled because Lou won't "embarrass" a veteran and that's what he believes that will accomplish.

I'm saying if he is hurt......

He keeps bringing up his knee…Is he hurt or not? Its time to see what Fuld or Fox can do everyday. They may not be the answer next year but start seeing what we have at least and don’t waste the rest of the season for nothing.

the suntimes said he has tendinitis and has been playing with it since about may

I agree that I think he's hurt.

If he is, shut him down. Let Fox or whoever play. If not try to fix his swing against ML pitching.

No. It won't be pulled because Lou won't "embarrass" a veteran and that's what he believes that will accomplish.

If my understanding is correct from what I read on BCB

Soriano wants to play
Soriano refuses to on the DL, he must approve it or he can file a grievance with the union
Soriano is afraid of surgery
Lou believes the Cubs have a better shot with an injured Soriano in the line-up

To answer your question, yes, he should be pulled to have surgery or at to give adequate time to heal properly.

bigz38fan - August 27, 2009 reply

he has to approve a DL stint?

Is that true? I’ve never heard of that, although I will be the first to admit that my knowledge is lacking in that area.

I may not have wored it correctly,

but, yes, he has to OK a DL stint. Otherwise, he can claim the team in preventing him from achieving bonuses based in playing time. I can’t find the proper words, maybe someone can help me out.

bigz38fan - August 27, 2009 reply

To some extent, it is true...

Basically, a player cannot be placed on the DL unless he has an injury that will prevent him from playing for 15 days (e.g., a broken leg) or would jeopardize his safety or career — or would prevent him from playing at a ML level — if not treated with rest and rehab which would last at least 15 days (e.g., tendonitis in the throwing shoulder). The team physician must sign the medical report (which is usually prepared by the head athletic trainer), and the move must be approved by MLB’s medical chief. Furthermore, the report must be re-filed every 15 days to report any progress or rehab that is taking place — even for an obviously long-term DL stint like TJ surgery.

If a player has an injury for which rest or surgery is the best course of action (e.g., bone chips in the elbow) but which doesn’t prevent the player from playing at a reasonable level, the player can effectively block a DL placement by threatening to file a grievance or complaining about a DL rules violation to the MLB medical chief.

So…

Sori does effectively have to approve a DL stint if the only diagnosis is tendonitis. Last year when he broke his hand, he had no choice since the Cubs MD had to forward the X-rays to the Medical Chief anyway.

Huh

Interesting. It makes the whole phantom injury thing to allow for roster moves that much more interesting to me. A handshake for the player, wink and a nod to the union, and suddenly a guy strained a calf (or whatever) so someone gets called up or reactivated.

Some guys are good soldiers...

Scott Eyre last season knew that his mechanics were off, so he signed off on a groin strain so he could work on his mechanics (and make some rehab appearances) without hurting the team. It got ugly, however, when he wasn’t re-activated after the 15 days were up. Lou dragged it out (because he didn’t really want him back) until Eyre threatened to file a grievance. He was activated but not really used by Lou, then DFA’d.

This season, Kelly Johnson’s swing was totally out of whack and he lost his job to Martín Prado. He knew he needed ABs, so he and the team decided that he had “tendonitis in the wrist”. A few days of rest, a few days in the cage, and he headed off on a minor league rehab assignment. That way he could fix his swing, not hurt the team, and get ML salary and per diem for playing in minor league games. He still might be a non-tender candidate, but the Braves are more likely to offer him another contract for being a good soldier.

4A guys like Sam Fuld and Koyie Hill tend to be very good soldiers because they know that their attitude toward the team will have a lot to do with next year’s contract.

Sori has 136 million reasons to refuse to be a “good soldier”.

Mark Prior wishes he had a good soldier

Whoops, I meant “shoulder”.

CaliCub - August 27, 2009 reply

thank you

bigz38fan - August 27, 2009 reply

Call his bluff

Tell him to get it fixed now so he’ll be available next year Day 1. if he chooses to file a grievance, imagine how he’d appear to the fans.

are such things public

perhaps it’s already happened.

If there is evidence that he needs surgery

(such as bone chips showing up on an MRI), the Cubs can effectively recommend shutting down early for surgery — but they can’t force Sori to have the surgery, either during or after the season. (That’s really an OSHA reg that MLB has to obey. Your boss can’t force you to have LASIK so you don’t need glasses either.) If Sori chooses to not have surgery and just keep playing, there’s nothing the Cubs can do.

The carrot for the player is that they are using the season for their surgery and immediate rehab, so they can enjoy the off-season more.

I know they can't force surgery

I said they should shut him down and get it fixed. The doctors and trainers and Soriano can decide the best method to repair him. All I suggested is that they do it now and not wait until offseason. I never understood the players who waited most offseason and had surgery just as the preseason was beginning.

After Sept. 1, it gets easier

(assuming that Lou has any balls)

Lou can just stop writing his name on the lineup card. The “penalty” for carrying a player on the roster who can’t play is effectively eliminated by the expanded roster. Perhaps if Lou sits down with Sori and explains that he won’t be writing his name on the lineup card anymore, Sori will opt for surgery if it is recommended.

Of course, the downside is that Lou has anointed him as a team leader, and runs the risk of having Sori turn the clubhouse against him.

BTW, I agree with you that sooner would be better than later. However, Sori’s thinking might be that he doesn’t want to “concede” anything until the Cubs are officially eliminated — a stance which would show that he is becoming a true leader. I certainly cannot knock him if that is his reason.

What I'd like to see is a face saving gesture

Lou saying that Sori is going to sit / work on getting healthy / whatever, and then praise him for trying to play though pain, gutting it out trying to help the team. Doesn’t matter if it’s true, it makes Sori look like he was trying
Behind closed doors, tell him he’s done for the year, and start treatment now, even if all the doctors can do is tell him to rest.

I just don’t see Lou pulling the plug like that.

Hey, I'm all for

avoiding a confrontation. What you suggest seems reasonable to me. What I don’t know is if Soriano will act rprudently. We can hope.

tharr - August 28, 2009 reply

His injury doesn't seem to be affecting his abilty to walk to the batters box and back to the dugout...

so I guess he’ll just keep starting games.

Surgery for tendinitis?

What? Who gets surgery for tendinitis?

vonde6 - August 27, 2009 reply

well, they've attempted to get an MRI to see if the damage is more severe,

but for some reason they decided not to go through with it. The Soriano situation is quite FUBAR

the MRI

is now scheduled for the 10th of September. Which makes no sense to me, he should be getting the MRI right now. He could seriously be screwing up his knee.

not to mention

bad knee + wet grass is really not cool.

Soriano requires at least 2 weeks notice of any MRI he is to undergo.

Can we put Hendry and/or Lou on waivers? (Please insert sarcasm font here.)

They wouldn't be claimed

t.larussa

LaRussa & Duncan are free agents at the end of the year……well later for those 2 they will be in the fall classic this year

They'll be in the postseason.

As we well know, playing well in August does not guarantee you October success.

What does playing like crap in August guarantee us?

Ulcers?

pink slips

I hope.

Not playing at all in October

Gumbo

mmmmm....a tasty reward!

More interest in football

No post-season disappointment this year?

vonde6 - August 27, 2009 reply

postseason

that only applies to us cub fans

nice to see anothe hawk on here…go hawks

Nine more days to kickoff at kinnick!

Thank God

Go Hawks!!!

sue369 - August 27, 2009 reply

+ 12

wins

the iowa hawkeyes have won more post season games in the last 6yrs than the cubs have won in the last 60yrs

thank you Mr Random

chips

ive eaten more potatos chips in the last 24 hours than you have

I've drank moar kool-aid than you in the last 10 min.

THEN YOU SHOULD GET OUT OF HERE

I, for one, appreciate this quote.

Thank you.

In Which Sport?

If you are an Iowa Hawkeye, there IS only one sport.

(AKA our basketball team sucks.)

Wrestling?

Corn Hole?

ping-pong!

Beer Pong!

CaliCub - August 27, 2009 reply

Many of my Iowan friends

still speak of the 1987 NCAA tourney with great regret.

“17 points up on UNLV at halftime…” they say, as they shake their heads.

Goodie1969 - August 27, 2009 reply

players

maybe its time the cubs took lessons from the twins,rays,and marlins. build within and stop trading young talent for has beens

who is this "young talent" of which you speak?

This is some of the best materials I've seen on BCB in months.

This guy is great.

Position player/ starting pitching wise almost nothing.

Ricky Nolasco is the only even decent prospect the Cubs have traded that has amounted to anything.

Dontrelle Willis

He had a few good seasons before tanking.

That's true

OK, that's 2 players.

2 pitchers to be exact.

Pitchers on average aren’t worth as much individually as hitters. Position players can contribute significantly both offensively and defensively and play everyday. So while they gave up pitchers, all of the position players they have given up have been garbage or useless.

noooooooooooo

choi, bobby hill, dey wuz da bomb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/SARCASM

lol

as someone said below....

we gave up never were for good players….
at least we got Lee for Choi and Ramirez for Hill and Hernandez

What about

[insert name of White Sox pitcher whose name escapes me now but rocks hard]?

Garland?

Yeah, he came up in the Cubs system, no?

I have this card.

eswan9 - August 27, 2009 reply

PV?!?!?

Jon Garland was never anything more than a league average pitcher.

Overhyped completely

Everyone looks at wins, which he has a lot of, but his FIP and ERA never were impressive. He’s a right handed Sean Marshall. In fact, he’s worse than Marshall.

Career 4.74 FIP.

Point well taken

Maybe, but...

… his perceived trade value was WAY higher than “Matt Karchner”.

Absolutely.

At his best he was an average pitcher in the AL he might have been a slightly above average (read Sean Marshall or maybe even Randy Wells). An average to above average starting pitcher is fine and would have been sure useful in the late 90s.

Gallagher and Murton

got us Harden. Who cares what they do after we trade them?

It seems like a good idea to look back

to see if your scout’s forecast for those guys played out the way you expected.

I wished those guys luck, but they have not gone on to bigger and better things, and have proved that they were expendable.

What young talent have the Cubs traded for has beens? Are DLee and Aramis has beens?

no. those two have been among the league best. I live in O.C. CA. now and JP has nor looked too bad this year, but he has no arm

The Cubs have used marginal minor leaguers to acquire DLee, Aramis and Harden.

They aren’t trading young talent for has beens. They’ve traded never will be’s for good players.

The jury may still be out on some of these but

Ceda for Gregg
Pie for Williamson and Olson
Aardsma for Cotts
Sold Hamilton after selecting him in Rule 5 Draft
Nolasco and Pinto for Pierre
Juan Cruz for Andy Pratt

Are we going to start

this bogus “why did the Cubs get rid of Hamilton” crap again?

If you are offended

by a factual report, you may need to change diuretics.

tharr - August 28, 2009 reply

He's right.

Josh Hamilton was never, ever going to be a Cub. Ever. To put that in a list of failed deals is misrepresenting facts.

The fact is

that we chose to pass on him. We could have chosen to select him for ourselves. We felt his past behavior meant he was irredeemable. Obviously, that was a wrong decision.

tharr - August 28, 2009 reply

and obviously you have a crystal ball and/or a palantir

and you can tell that if the Cubs had indeed held onto Hamilton, he would have duplicated his path to personal redemption and professional recovery, become a very prolific slugger last year (when we didn’t need him) and gotten hurt a big chunk of this year (when we could have used him).

While you’re still peeking under the covers there, can you tell me what the MegaMillions winning numbers will be for tonight? I promise to buy out Miles contract if I’m the sole winner. Thanks.

ballhawk - August 28, 2009 reply

If you need to be childish

with your responses, so be it. Obviously I have made no claim to be able to see the future. But you seem to find it impossible to see accept reality. Hamilton would have been a wise choice. You see that’s the operative word….choice. The Cubs had a choice and their choice was wrong. Are you suggesting it was a good decision? Perhaps you are suggesting the choice of Miles was wise. Unlike you. I am willing to accept the fact that Hendry made both good decisions and bad ones. The failure to choose Hamilton was bad. I know you want to make excuses. So be it.

tharr - August 29, 2009 reply

sigh

we NEVER had a chance at Hamilton. We did not sell him. We had a pre-existing deal.

lol...

yeah, ok. Because Marshall, Wells, Soto, Marmol, Fuld, Fox, Riot… they don’t count, you see…

Those said teams SHOULD be the Cubs farm system...

Thjey need a good GM/front office that can take advantage of Cubs “major market” advantages and exploit the …..

And scouts that acctually …

kcjones - August 27, 2009 reply

Give me a reason to believe

cubswgnrocks - August 27, 2009 reply

There is over a month of baseball left

Anything can happen in month. A N Y T H I N G

and if you've been a cub fan for more than 10 mintues

you know that “anything” usually ends badly

Even crazy stuff...

like Soto returning to his 2008 form, and Z throwing another no hitter in Sept., and Milton breaking Sosa’s team record for most HR’s hit in one month.

If by "anything"

you mean that the Cubs end up in a battle for 4th or 5th place, then you’re probably right.

TarHeelHawk - August 27, 2009 reply

Then again, I've pretty much stopped caring.

I mean, the players on this team don’t seem to give a shit, so why should I? Why should any of us?

TarHeelHawk - August 27, 2009 reply

must be nice you have football and basketball to look foreward to

you keep saying this

Now prove it.

Y'mean

Miles could double his RBI output for the season? And Shark could give us four straight quality starts?

tim815 - August 27, 2009 reply

would you rather have pie or fukendome in center

pie

pies have more calories than fukendomes

Bar-B-Q potato chips

would you rather have pie or sherbet tonight

...

lind

evedently you havent watched the same lame asses i have this year cubbiegoon

reply button is your friend, wccub

As is spellcheck, and all punctuation.

I was hoping "Fukendome" was spelled wrong and not a derogatory comment...

….but who knows.

no just a harryism

this is the first time i have ever done this. give me a break

TWSS

you see the shiny blue button

that says reply? using it is really easy and wildly recommended

you should rent some better porn then.

You rent yours?

I make my own. It's chaper and more fun.

Is that anything like chaffing?

there's some weird stuff out there in pornland.

It's either that, or hehas more "chaps"

I should drive up to Portland!

I Lease With An Option To Buy

I borrow SWL’s.

That reminds me...

you still haven’t returned “Bag Taggers Vol.3”

he lent it to me

it was uh.. for a friend…

Look, I don't care which one of you has it...

I just need it back.

Allie took it.

It's a good thing I put subtitles on that one then.

He'll never get it back now.

Well, damn.

And I went to bed, Al, thinking the game wasn’t going to get played. Good thing I missed it then, but there’s been a lot of close calls not being argued by Managers these days. Bob Geren, Bruce Bochy, Bud Black: all have sat on the bench when they should’ve run out onto the field.

FYI, both umps from last’s night Rays v. Jays matchup are doing fine.

If Lou goes, maybe we can attract Ron Washington?

WE ARE WHO THEY THOUGHT WE WERE!

AND WE LET 'EM OFF THE HOOK

But nobody is crowning THESE asses

"Curiously out of sync"?

It get’s curiouser and curiouser

ALice in wonderland.

what a joke.

Gibbon Jockey - August 27, 2009 reply

The two most important things

about (home) games from here out are

1. They get played.
2. There is one other thing, but I don’t want to be blamed for writing it.

Our draft pick slot is looking better, and the one thing we’ve done well the last 24 months is draft well in June.

Regarding Harden and compensatory picks. There is a(nother) way we could miss out on picks for him. As with the Brewers and CC last season, we could offer arbitration, but he could go to a team that signs a better ranked free agent in the offseason. The Yankees picks went for Teixiera’s old team, not CC’s. That having been said, if it isn’t a solid player offered for Harden, roll the dice with arbitration.

tim815 - August 27, 2009 reply

This isn't a defeat just a set back.

Look, there is OVER a month of baseball left. There is so much negative energy in here. Just think about the schedual. The Cubs have 3 games against the Cards. If all goes well, The Cubs would have gained a couple of games by then. Lets say The Cubs are 6 games back by then; with a sweep, that puts them 3 games back. This team has the potential to win the division.

I keep thinking about the "schedual" but I reach no concluzions

You are right....Im starting to believe.......

Now Im back to they are really bad again, sorry

Damn

I thought I had you

dood

I wish I had what you’re smoking. We can’t win a series against the Nats, or Padres. But we’re going to sweep the Cardinals. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

The Nationals

swept the Yankees. Stranger things have happened. Baseball is a WEIRD game.

I'd be willing to make a very strong wager that we don't sweep the Cardinals

the nationals did not sweep the yankees

they didn't?

Al talks about it frequently.

2 of 3

June 16, 17, 18

They lost the first game and won the last 2.

The only teams the Nats have swept this year are the Marlins (2 games) and the Diamondbacks (3)

The Marlins are a good team.

And we had the perfect chance...

…to pick up a game on the Redbirds. Or, did nobody notice that the Cards lost?

We only care about the White Sox losing here.

The Cards only lose when the Cubs lose

That’s how it works. Nothing to see here.

Ace Venom - August 27, 2009 reply

the cubs have never won on a day the cards lost this month

Nobody did, nor should they, notice.

Gibbon Jockey - August 27, 2009 reply

You can't do a dual Cubs-lose-recap and an "Inglorious Basterds" movie review, can you, Al?

I think they would go together perfectly.

I could, I guess.

But I haven’t seen the movie.

Good movie, Al.

Quite entertaining.

Problem is that the Inglorious Basterds use baseball bats to hit things definitively and make a statement.

The Cubs do not.

Gibbon Jockey - August 27, 2009 reply

Turn it green.

And it was only...

…actually entertaining in chunks, which is kinda like the Cubs.

Oh Snap!

Where's the Fire?

I agree pretty much with everything that has been said about the team thus far. They truly haven’t come together as a unit and I blame the management as well as the players for that. Guys like Baker, Fox,Fuld,Hill hell even Riot and Fontenot you can tell they have a passion for this game. But I think everyone else has given up. Guys like Dempster and Big Z wanna win too but somethings up and we probably won’t figure out what until after the season. Sucks seeing your team come to something like this when we live and die with these guys. Just finish with some FIRE is all I ask now. Play like you did before all the money B.S.

Sandburg23 - August 27, 2009 via mobile reply

harden was claimed by marlins

maybe harden for hermida?

Oh, right.

I’d do that. But the Marlins wouldn’t.

Howsabout Hanley?

Can we turn around and trade him for Roy Halliday and ADAM LIND?

I think they would do that.

Maybe.

But he plays RF. We have MB.

My opinion only

he will be gone after this season.

We'll see.

I think the middle-IF is far more important than the OF at the moment.

And I think Abreu is only on a 1-year deal with Brooklyn.

I agree

I just think it’s time to put a player in RF and stick with him. Hermida is young and may develop into a pretty good player.

He is young.

In my idealized world, the OF would currently be: Soriano (because we have to), Carlos Gonzalez (A’s traded ’im to the Rocks; bad move there), Dome.

it makes me mad having to believe that

Soriano is our “long term solution” to left field. But yeah, Gonzalez looks like a up and coming player.

Agreed.

But we have to think he’s going to come around; otherwise, it’s unlikely he’ll ever really sit based on the guaranteed money he’s got coming to him.

I just looked it up...

…and Hanley has a six-year extension (through 2014) valued at $70-million. If the Fish were ever interested in dumping payroll (or even looking for diff. options), that’s a contract I would consider picking up.

He could be a prototypical leadoff guy despite the fact that his SBs are down by about half since ’07. He could probably do much better with a better line-up behind him.

haha i think every team would think about picking him up

it would take an absolute TON though.

That's why we have to get in...

…while we have an “in”. Dig?

It would take like Vitters, Harden, Jackson, Brett Jackson, DJ, and they still wouldn't accept

That's why we have silver-tongued Hendry!

but

they’re not the pirates

Or the Orioles.

HARDEN 4 HANLEY

GET IT DON EJIM

wait...

whut?

twus

Good to see we have a new meme

hanley is the new lind

lind was the new peavy

Your kidding right? I assume you are, but in case you aren't.

Hermida is not worth Harden.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7208&position=OF#value
0.7 Wins for Hermida (see 4th outfielder)
3.3 Wins over his career

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1772&position=P#value
1.6 Wins for Harden (not nearly as good as a normal year for harden)
and 17.2 over his career
and he’s only 28.

Oh boy...stats to the rescue.

What should be to the rescue, then? Photoshopped images?

Good baseball players.

define

good

have you watched our lineup this year?

the opposite of most of them.

not really, but

angelic? nice? (s)crappy? able to hit field and pitch? which version of good do ya want…. be more descriptive :P

OK, how about players that are able to have ABs in which one of the following will happen with some degree of consistency:

a) they get on base
b) they drive in a run
c) they move a runner into scoring position

Lee, Ramirez, Bradley and Dome are the only players on the rosters that have done this…to a somewhat lesser extent Theriot.

unpossible!!!!!

next thing you’ll demand is the ‘27 yankees lineup, or the ’29/’30 cubs lineup.

Those guys are all dead....

and white…are you a racist?

nope....

I’m eskimo

I've already weighed in on how I feel about Eskimos.

I know...

we don’t exist. :P

Yo mamma...

…is good. Ma, but do we need emoticons. A knee slapper here would be great.

If only there was a way to measure such players

Maybe into words that are both impersonal and evenhanded in manner, devoid of any type of subjectivity. Better yet, numbers that can be interpreted and analyzed.

Statistics, if you will.

Wait they exist?

What a sad life I have lead to this point. This is truly a revolutionary and inspirational moment in my life! =P
lol

Y'know...

…for somebody who’s claimed ‘moneyball’ to be overrated, and ‘sabermetrics’ to be on its way out, you sure do run to it an awfully lot.

Stats are only wrong

when Buzz disagrees with them.

lol

Satire people, satire

I'm a big SABR person in reality

ummmm

the pr0n section was up higher……

ya know, where the other posters stole yours?

Somebody's got their mind in the gutter much?

Looks up from magazine

what? ME?!?!!????!

NEVER

/sarcasm

Magazine!

Old skool!

why there's a whole stack beneath me bed...

do you actually understand what satire is?

just saying crap you don’t believe isn’t satire. I’ll give you credit, you apparently work pretty hard to research opinions you don’t even hold. All in the name of “satire”

Satire is pointing the stupidity or ridiculousness, in an over the top way, of a given thing or view point

by displaying it in an absurd fashion to expose the utter stupidity and asininity of said view point/thing.

If absurd claims weren’t about Bradley and statistics weren’t satire I don’t know what is. Now if you want to claim it was poorly done that’s one thing, but to say it wasn’t satire is a simply false.

What is satire to you and how did my attempt at it fail to meet your glorious definition?

You're not looking at it right, buzz

several years of Hermida is ~~not~~ worth one month of Harden.

Fixed

they kick us out for the 2003 playoffs

and now want richie! when will it end!

Never

Ever. Neverneverever. Oh, wait. In 2015 when the Cubs win the WS against the Miami Sharks.

We're still holding to that date?

better late than never...

It's all I got right now...

I have it penciled in.

Let me know before I ink it into my dayplanner.

Wonder what The Cubs will get

Wonder if they will resign him during the offseason.

Yowch

Stats, Inc MLB twitter:

The #Cubs, who were 14-5 in their first 19 games after the All-Star break, have gone 6-14 since then. #MLB

ouch is right.

bah.

harden was claimed by marlins

maybe harden for hermida?

I'd rather have Hanley.

what idiot posted this twice?

I couldn't tell ya

something like lenovohater or summat

haha

Maybe Harden for Gregg!

Wait we already got him

Harden for Cody Ross and a minor leaguer.

i think 2 draft picks would be better than Ross

Cody Ross is under team control for the next two years, after this season.

That would be very unintelligent for the Marlins to give up Ross, as well a minor leaguer, for one month of Rich Harden.

but Pitching is King!

How much payroll...

flex do the Fish have? Aren’t they running around with about 20-million in salary? They could sign him to a lengthy deal right off the bat. Shore up their rotation.

c'mon....

bob ross… he coulda painted some quick and nice paintings of the ivy.

He is a good painter.

FUNNY PICTURE!

LSA +1 rec’d!

You're a genius

I thought you'd lost your touch and were mailing it in these days.

Once again, I was wrong.

N Oakley - August 27, 2009 reply

nope...

he is not a circa ’04 cubs (insert title here).

I love Bob Ross.

lol

sue369 - August 27, 2009 reply

The end is near...

Looking at score recaps...

…The Mets just clobbered the Fish 10-3.

Anyone elses Z function

stop working?

My Z function is lazy and stopped working.

your z key better start doing crunches

it has weak abs?

I hate the Marlins and Rockies but I'm also jealous of them and their young talent.

Can someone recommend to me some professional help?

zevkalman - August 27, 2009 reply

im jealous too

maybe we can go to group therapy

Speaking of pitchers...

…if we’re dead set on jettisoning Richie, do we look for a replacement or use the money elsewhere? For example, Lincecum is eligible for arbitration this year.

and in what perfect world could we attain

lincecum?

Who knows.

He’s the best bargain in baseball right now — for the Giants. He’s not even making a million this year, and I have heard about zero contract talks between him and the organization. Those will probably depend entirely if he can carry them into the playoffs.

And then, it’s a matter of how far.

best bargain, yes

but he is still technically under team control for the next few years…. how could we get the giants to give him to us?

scales??

luis rivas?

Barry Zito.

They’ve already had to eat an enormous amount of money on his contract (cuz he sucks!), and if I’m New-whatever, I’m quite leery about dropping $100-million plus on another pitcher.

But it's simply speculation.

Do you want another pitcher, or do you look for another position player? Me, I’m looking for a Type-A middle-IF.

I saw Hendry last night...

and he looked pathetic.

I just hopped into town for the weekend and ran into Jim sitting by himself at the Rock Bottom on State. At around 1am he was sitting in the bar and I approached him. We had a short chat and he probably said “I just didn’t see this coming” four or five times.

Isn’t that his job? To see what’s coming?

Regardless, it was good to see that he is fan enough to be undone by the recent skid.

jshappell23 - August 27, 2009 reply

are you being serious?

Yup.

My wife claims that he was with a woman when we entered, but I did not see her.

jshappell23 - August 28, 2009 reply

Don't want to start a new thread, but I was at the game and heard a group

of 5 stereotypes two rows behind me who give Cub fans the bad rep.

I guess every MLB stadium has it’s sloppy drunks and booing, but these guys went over the line to the point Bradley may not be too far off the truth. I’ve been reading all day about how fans who make racial taunts/statements are tossed, but the granny watching tickets in the aisle 10 feet from them kept looking up and never said anything.

Usually, I’m upset about a loss and am not a prude, but these guys really ruined the day for me.

N Oakley - August 27, 2009 reply

Maybe they're not...

…actually being racist, but they’ve been going to that hot dog stand. You know the one.

For those that don’t, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1LPf9mnyU

I had never heard of that...

After watching it, I’m kind of depressed. Geesh…what the hell is wrong with people?

CubsWin!Oregon - August 27, 2009 reply

I've been there on many occasions...

… and have never seen it as ugly as in that video. Its not pretty, but its not really like that, either.

Bradley isn't making this stuff up, it's actually happening.

And it’s time the Cubs started doing something about it. It’s completely embarrassing that this franchise is allowing one of their players to suffer like this.

OT: nyjer morgan done for season with a broken hand

cub killer goes down.

That's too bad

I like Nyjer Morgan. He’s a perfect, prototypical leadoff man.

I understand why the Pirates have purged a lot of their players, but I don’t know why they let him go. For Milledge, no less.

Not Bruce Froemming - August 28, 2009 reply

I think the Pirates have taken to...

…running a sporting franchise too much like a business. Teeny tiny payroll, and they’ll bank it all with the revenue sharing from the CBA.

LeSaboteur - August 28, 2009 reply

That and

I suppose having McCutchen in CF is an issue for the Bucs. But I would think one or the other could play another position.

I like Morgan too...

But I tend to think he’s a good example of how one’s positive perceptions of someone don’t correllate to his actual value statistically.

He’s the type of player I love having on a team, but realistically, he doesn’t add as much as I think he does.

CubsWin!Oregon - August 28, 2009 reply

If MB

is on the Cubs next year, it will be a hard year for me to enjoy. Hendry has to do whatever it takes to get rid of him. From what MB says everyday, it seems like he wants to get the hell out of here, he is a poisen for this club.

slocs55 - August 27, 2009 reply

Poisen?

Open Up And Say Ah.

Ain't lookin for nothin but a good time

Ace Venom - August 27, 2009 reply

How can you resist?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090827&content_id=6649618&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

and heilman on being traded

“It’s news to me,” Heilman said after the Cubs lost, 5-4, on Thursday to the Washington Nationals. “We’ll wait to see what happens and deal with it at that point. I certainly enjoy playing here and enjoy my teammates. I definitely would like to stick around.”

thats too bad

you suck

Dear Aaron Heilman,

I definitely would like you to be a good pitcher. Let’s see which one of us gets our wish first.

SWL

Levine now says that it might be the Twins who claimed Harden.

good

we need a catcher… :P

I like the way your brain functions.

You want Mauer?

Not. Going. To. Happen.

Unless BLou has heard differently.

2010...2010....

gotta be thinking about that now, it appears. It just sucks that we virtually traded away Felix Pie, Ronny Cedeno, and Rich Hill for nothing now. I know we wouldn’t have gotten much it return, but we just pretty much gave up those players for one crappy one, essentially

Chanman25 - August 27, 2009 reply

Rich Hill?

seriously? We’re pining for Rich “can’t put it over the plate” Hill?

Cmon.

I don't think he's pining for Rich

I think he’s saying that had we traded them before their value bottomed out, we could have gotten more for them.

well

I agree with that. Hill tanked VERY fast, I’m not sure we even had time to consider it. Right before he dumped, he was a key part of our rotation.

All 3 of those guys suck.

Agreed

It is surprising who some choose to pine for…

im still waiting for JA happs arm to fall off

any day now..

Vermont Cubs Fan - August 27, 2009 reply

Some are you are welcome

to “will” this team to a playoff berth. Or to keep believing a false hope until the final out when they are mathematically eliminated, but I say why don’t you let go?

You’ll feel better.

You’re disappointment will be reduced.

Your anxiety waitng for "one more win and we will only need _ number of wins in a row – coupled with the Cardinals losing 12 in a row!

Just l e t g o! It is easy…

This team is just a spoiler now. Let’s take pride in the fact that perhaps they can change the Wild Card race when they play the Giants.

Wait ’til next year is a familiar mantra to me.

The E-Man - August 27, 2009 reply

Hey, does anyone know which teams Heilman and Harden might be going to?

Not sure if either is going anywhere.

Minnesota claimed Harden, though.

Vermont Cubs Fan - August 27, 2009 reply

Thanks.

I'm pretty shocked Harden made it out of the NL

Dude’s been nails lately. Can’t tell me he wouldn’t have made the Rockies’ rotation a 1,000 times better

hes still on the cubs

unless jimbo did a secret trade with the twins

double secret probation trade.

Yes. But in order for the Twins to have claimed him, every NL team would have had to pass

on him, which is what I meant. I guess I could have said the waiver claim made it out of the NL, but I assumed people would understand what I meant. My mistake

Most people did understand, it wasn't a mistake on your part.

Jesus Christos was attempting to be funny, and didn’t realize what you were saying. It fell flat, shockingly.

nope

i misunderstood it, but thanks for trying

Obviously you misunderstood it.

Which is why I said

Jesus Christos…didn’t realize what you were saying

When I said that most people did understand, I wasn’t including you.

oh

boy do i feel stupid

Let's get one thing straight, people.

Ryan Theriot is a bum, Jake Fox and Sam Fuld are Quad-A players, and every other one of these hacks you deify really is just kinda shitty. Soriano, Fukudome, Bradley, Lee,and Ramirez are good to great players. Yes, Soriano has had a horrible season, but he has a career track record of success. We need to realize we have a pretty good team, quit the petulant booing, and understand that some horrible luck is our real problem this year.

Next year, this team will be good. It will. And that won’t be because of Jake Fox, Sam Fuld, Micah Hoffpauir, Reed Johnson, Koyie Hill, Bobby Scales, or Andres Blanco. It will be because the damn good players we have will play like they are capable. Get ready.

If you say so....

That's 5

good to great players, and doesn’t include pitchers. Even if they all perform like we expect / want, we still need to fill some holes or resign ourselves to seeing the guys you call bums, ect.

Horrible luck?

is that what we’re calling continuously failing at epic levels with RISP?

Look at BABIP.

And think about it. Many of our best players have spent time on the DL, and others have underperformed their career norms. This has been a perfect storm of bad luck for the Cubs.

no, it's been a perfect storm of suckitude

you make your own luck. Claiming this season was lost because of bad luck is simply a way to excuse a bunch of guys for playing terrible baseball for a good portion of this season

Nobody's excusing the crappy play.

They’ve played like shit. I’m just saying that I don’t expect it to continue next season. And anyone who think Sam Fuld or Jake Fox is the answer is insane.

So it's "horrible luck" that's been the problem?

Well, that certainly explains 100+ years of general ineptitude.

bluekoolaide - August 27, 2009 reply

Hey, everyone has a bad century, once in a while...

dtc0405 - August 27, 2009 reply

Misc Crap

Lou is not the problem. Cubs have had a string of fine managers (Ronnie) from Baylor to Lou. It seems to me that Lou has tried to take a different approach to managing this year. He may be getting tired of the angry Lou mo. Also, when you have a team that does have some volitility issues and you are trying to correct this, does it help to yell?? These guys are professionals and need not be motivated by a manager. Salary drive and headlines shoild be plenety of motivation. What do we need, Mack Newton again… Stupid. Lou reminds me of the Tom Hanks character in LOTO. When the players show some spark, the manager will soon follow. If you have to work on your car and half of your sockets are toast, do you get ticked and give up, buy some new sockets or try to take the bolts out with your teeth? I welcome the return of Lou next year and hopefully Ryno beyond that. Also, Lou may want to look into the new line of coaching fashions out there. Something a bit more slimming may help his mood (jk). At this point in the season I watch the games with the same face as Lou does. What are you going to do?

truelinkfence - August 27, 2009 reply

One carriage return would have been great.

One other thing

what was up with (I think it was A Guzman) throwing a fit in the dugout after being plucked by Lou. The camera didnt stay there long so I am not sure what really happened. I would ship the guy to AA for that alone given the state of the season and point in the schedule.

truelinkfence - August 27, 2009 reply

And yet another

Havent posted here that much. I looked on the posting tips section. Is there an issue with typing through or is this “Carriage Return” comment a jab/jk. Clarify?

truelinkfence - August 27, 2009 reply

sort of kidding...

You're required to take a carriage on the way to Hogwarts.

if anyone wants to feel better

the pirates just took 3 of 4 from the phillies.

has it gotten this bad?

2 of 3

and the Phillies pretty much have the East sewn up. So no it doesn’t make me feel any better

the phillies announcers lied then

or misspoke

shh

What made me feel better

was looking at the Brewer’s record.

But I didn’t feel that much better.

The Brewers got swept by the Reds, correct?

A swift, firm return to earth for the Crew this season.

And Prince is a free agent after this year?

There is deeper doo doo than what we are swimming in.

heilman

pretty sad al & some bcb’ers are so anxious to rid of heilman; he lasted about 30 seconds on waivers before he was claimed. heilman will start one day again in this here game of baseballs. if braden loopty-loo can win 12 games as starter; heilman can win 30

brian custer - August 27, 2009 reply

heilman 4 cy young

ummm wow

Delusional much?

If the 2008 NY Mets bullpen could let Heilman go, he's not good.

For as quality as that bullpen might look on paper, it was atrocious. Mind-boggling horrible.

And next year

when Heilman is 12-6 for the A’s or some such team, we can read all the bitching right here at BCB. “GD it, Hendry! Why did you get rid of Heilman?”

Well, that's what happens when players leave your team, they do things.

i know i wouldnt...

Would that mean...

…that Larry (take your base) Rothschild didn’t the get the best out of Heilman?

MPH73 - August 27, 2009 reply

your man crush on heilman

has begun to really disturb me.

Even Aaron Heilman

Needs somebody to love…

(cue the songsters)

gocubsgoradio720 - August 27, 2009 reply

I agree...

…with you on the Lou situation, Al. I just don’t get it. Lou has been driving me crazy for about a year and a half now and I kind of just wish he would leave and be done with it.
Everyone is calling for Gameboard’s head. Has he played poorly and said stupid things? Absolutely. Has pretty much everyone else? Yes. I just read a column by Phil Rogers (I think it was him), saying the Cubs should release Bradley and eat the $20 mil or so left on his contract…. Are you kidding me?!?! That seriously sounded like one of the dumbest things I’ve read in awhile.

It's as if somebody has let the air out of Lou, the coaching staff and the entire team.

TONY

If the Cubs would hire Tony as manager, My 60 years of pulling for the cubs would have been for naught. I despise that individua l!!!!

diamondjim - August 28, 2009 reply

I'd take it if it would mean a World Series win.

They should hire the best person for the job

TLR fits that description better than Trammel, Brenly or Ryno.