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Bleed Cubbie Blue

Hello, Old Friends: Cubs vs. Mets Preview, Friday 8/28, 1:20 CT

Let's push controversy aside for a while, shall we, and try to just enjoy a baseball game this afternoon?

The last time the Mets visited Wrigley Field was more than 16 months ago, on April 22, 2008. That isn't that long ago in baseball terms, but of the eight starting Cubs that day, four are no longer with the team and one is on the DL. Five other Cubs who appeared in the game are elsewhere as well. As for the Mets, four of their starting eight from that game won't appear due to injury and three others have departed.

Ronny Cedeno hit a grand slam in that game, just to remind you of blasts from the past. It's still his only slam. (That's just about the time we started calling him ONEDEC.)

Two very different teams will take the field at Wrigley this afternoon from that long-ago day in 2008 (the Cubs did face the Mets last September, still almost a year ago, when the Mets were desperately trying to win a playoff spot, which they lost on the last day of the season). The Mets have been decimated by injuries, both to their starting lineup and pitching rotation -- the three Mets probable starters in this series, Pat Misch, Bobby Parnell and Nelson Figueroa, were definitely not the pitchers Jerry Manuel envisioned in his rotation in April.

OK, I suppose I can't resist a couple of links and comments regarding the current Milton Bradley situation. Phil Rogers says the Cubs should just cut him, which would cost north of $20 million and I think is a ridiculous idea, but Rogers also offer some suggestions of other teams' bad contracts that could result in a trade:

The only way to trade Bradley, according to executives with other clubs, is to up your ante to take on someone else's bad contract. You know the names -- the Blue Jays' Vernon Wells, owed $98.5 million over five years; the Giants' Barry Zito, $83 million over four years; the Astros' Carlos Lee, $55.5 million over three years, maybe the Giants' Aaron Rowand, $36 million over three years.

The best of those scenarios involves the Rangers' five-year, $80-million deal with Michael Young, who at 32 is a productive player. He's owed $16 million a year for four more seasons.

In a cost-cutting mode because of ownership problems, Texas might consider a Bradley-for-Young trade. But it wouldn't do it during its ongoing playoff race and it's going to be increasingly awkward for them to try to wade through a hugely problematic trade.

As Rogers says, Texas is in a playoff race and probably wouldn't do it now. So are the Giants with Zito, who has actually pitched very well since the All-Star break. The Vernon Wells deal would be more palatable to the Cubs if it didn't have five years and nearly as much money as Alfonso Soriano's. But I'd do it. Wells is virtually the same age as Bradley (about eight months younger) and, though he's had a couple of tough years since he signed his monster deal, at least he does have proven power numbers from the past, and could play CF, allowing Kosuke Fukudome to move back to RF next season (with Reed Johnson retained to back them both up).

And strangely enough, the best local media words on this situation come from the Tribune's Steve Rosenbloom, who I almost never agree with and who often writes ridiculous bombast. But today he nails it, in a column titled Bradley's response ought to anger those who take on racism seriously:

Racism is serious. If you are concerned or angry enough to put that in the public discussion, then you seemingly should be motivated to explain when and where this happened. How else do you take a step toward keeping it from happening again?

But when Bradley offers only cynicism and sarcasm, he diminishes the severity of the issue. Moreover, he does a disservice to those suffering abuse but who are willing to fight the fight head on.

...

Under no circumstances does anyone deserve to be abused racially. Underachieving baseball player and racial epithets are dots that should never connect.

But Bradley’s history and now his dismissive response to questions following his serious charges invite the suggestion that he’s looking for ways to shield himself from his problems, self-inflicted or otherwise.

One hundred percent correct, Mr. Rosenbloom. Bravo.

Try to enjoy today's game.

Star-divide

Today's Starting Pitchers
Ted Lilly
Ted Lilly
Cubs
vs. Pat Misch
Pat Misch
Mets
9-8 W-L 0-1
3.40 ERA 4.09
116 SO 13
27 BB 13
21 HR 1
vs. NY -- vs. Cubs

W-L G GS CG SHO SV BS IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP
2009 - Ted Lilly 9-8 21 21 0 0 0 0 135.0 123 56 51 21 27 116 3.40 1.11

Pat Misch's stats below are with the Mets only; see the pitcher box for his full-season stats.

W-L G GS CG SHO SV BS IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP
2009 - Pat Misch 0-1 15 0 0 0 0 1 18.2 18 6 6 1 10 13 2.89 1.50

There's no profile photo of Pat Misch in a Mets cap available (at least not in that size), so you get one of him with his former team, the Giants. The Mets acquired Misch on waivers in July and he's spent the last couple of months shuttling between Buffalo and New York, making 15 relief appearances with the Mets (after four with the Giants). He is a Chicago-area native who graduated from Glenbrook North HS in Northbrook in 1999 and has made three career relief appearances vs. the Cubs, all in 2007. This will be his first start as a Met. Only one current Cub has a hit off him -- Koyie Hill (1-for-2), but that's covering only eight total at-bats from all current Cubs.

Ted Lilly is 2-1, 3.86 in five career appearances (four starts) vs. the Mets. His last two starts against them, one in 2007 and one in 2008, were both wins, the last one in the April 22, 2008 game mentioned above. The current Met who has the most AB against Ted is Gary Sheffield; Sheffield is only 5-for-28 against him.

Cable-only today in Chicago (CSN) and New York (SNY). For other games today see the MLB.com Mediacenter.

MLB.com Gameday

Baseball-reference.com game preview

SB Nation game preview

Please visit our SB Nation Mets site Amazin' Avenue.

Overflow comment threads will post today at 2:15 pm, 3:15 pm and 4 pm CDT.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

0 recs  |  154 comments

Comments

I like Lee and Bobby Scales, and most Cubs fans do

So that whole racism idea is a non issue..

oh, come on.

it’s not nearly as simple as that.

But but but...

I’ve got black friends. That HAS to mean I’m not racist right?

/sarcasm

This is exactly what I was talking about

in the other thread where I was told my comment about questioning if Bradley has been subject to racism will result in being called a racist.

Excellent example and almost exactly what Wreckard posted to me yesterday when I asked a serious question about the experience of racism in the bleachers and RF specifically, pointing out the adoration of Sammy and Dawson and asking if it was a phenomenon that started after Sammy’s departure.

I visit this site less and less frequently because of things like this. If you dare question the group-think of some of the posters, then you’re personally attacked, called names or it’s implied that you’re a racist. Nice.

It’s a shame, Al, that it’s gotten like this.

How is that comparable?

I saw your question yesterday about Sammy and Dawson (never saw the response since I didn’t go back). But how is your question the same as a statement that “I like 2 other black players, therefore, I am not racist”?

The question is

Would he get the same amount of grief if he were white? I suspect not, but that’s based on my general feeling that black players will get a quick, hard-to-erase label of being angry, lazy, etc. due to lingering sterotypes. Those of you sitting in the RF bleachers would have a closer view of what is going on up close.

Yes, I think he would.

Perfect example: Todd Hundley.

It is not that simple,

maybe certain fans will only like “certain” kind of black players. Just because someone likes Dlee doesn’t mean they don’t like Bradley because he’s black.

And I’m certainly not saying anything about, just in general.

anything about you Chanman.
Second?
Where is everybody?

Are they still arguing in the fanposts?

It's the first time ever I agree with Ronsenbloom

except when he advices to run a bluff…

At least that smarmy-ass picture is gone

That picture seriously made me want to punch him in the face.

Just win the game.

I don’t care how, just win.

+49
I think you meant +42
I was just being random

didn’t mean anything

With an attitude like that

I don’t think you know where your towel is.

"Try to enjoy today's game."

Um, if they do anything enjoyable…

Let's get Lee

He’s never had a problem bashing them out of Wrigley. Course that’s with us pitching to him.

where would he play?
SS
haha

or 2nd base if he doesn’t have the range.

why should we start caring about our SS having range NOW?
Oh, and I'm sick of all these cajuns on the team. Can we do something about that?
NO MORE DUTCH!
Dutch ovens?
Speaking of such things

I found a new dutch-oven-like trick. With a wetsuit.

Rip a good one, then put your hand near someones face, and open up the seal on your wrist.

Fart a la face.

Like Spiderman!
Exactly!

Especially if he had been bitten by a skunk. Of course, then he would be skunk man, I guess… doesn’t have the same ring to it.

Skunk-man just needs a catchy song!
I submit this for your approval.

I think it works.

perfect!

Let’s get a package together for the marketing department.

What's wrong with having Cajuns on the team?

Being a Cajun myself, I’m very curious.

They're too spicy

We Cub fans like bland stuff.

"All" these Cajuns?

Aren’t there only two now?

The lingering effects of Paul Bako can be felt to this day

Some fans just won’t forgive or forget him.

I saw him (on TV) hit a home run last night!

Bakoball – catch the fever!

Completetly agree with Rosenbloom

and Milton should be working with Cubs security to identify the culprits, something he apparently has never done.

Given Milton's nature to be a bit of a crazy person Rosenbloom is right to question him

But at the same time it would be foolish to dismiss his claims just because he said them. Hopefully the Sun-Times and ESPN Chicago writers who went into the stands yesterday go back in a few weeks when this thing blows over. Right now their accounts come when people have to be on their best behavior because they know the media and security is watching their every move.

Glad

I wasn’t the only one to agree w/ Rosenbloom. Read it this morning, and couldn’t actually believe that I was agreeing w/ him… for once. A virus is a virus is a virus.

I just saw on the Dan Patrick show that today is...

Lou’s birthday. Hopefully the team gives him a win for it!

Go Cubs!

be nice

to get a win today.

Wells????

The Vernon Wells suggestion is laughable. You’d be taking on 3 more years and 80 million for a guy who can’t really play CF any more and would be a downgrade offensively from Milton. He’s also had his own problems staying healthy. One of the reasons Halladay is still a Blue Jay is because no one wanted to take on VW’s contract.

I'd stay away from Wells, Al...

He’s actually making MORE money than Soriano from 2010-2014 ($98.5 million vs $90 million). His contract is probably the worst contract in baseball. He’ll be making $20+ million per year from 2011-2014.

And we’d be taking on an additional $78.5 million (and three years) for a guy who probably ins’t any better than Milton Bradley (certainly not as good as Bradley was last year). Wells is a career .802 OPS guy, is probably hitting the decline phase defensively (meaning he may need to move to a corner OF spot). And in two of the past three years, he’s had an OPS of under .725.

And wasn't Wells the player...

…who specifically stated that he didn’t want to play at Wrigley Field? Or am I thinkin’ of someone else?

I believe that was Torii Hunter
Ah, OK. Thanks.
The GM in Toronto...

…is also another guy who is lucky to still be in his position.

Agreed...

Getting back to the topic of possible Bradley trades, I don’t think the guys listed by Rosenbloom is the appropriate list. I think a more realistic idea would be more along the Hundley for Karros/Grudz trade lines – pick up a couple of smaller contracts that teams don’t want who would be reserve players. I certainly don’t think we’d be trading Bradley (who "only has a bit over $20 million due after this year) for players with $50+ million left on their deals.

I can see Rosenbloom's point, however....
But Bradley’s history and now his dismissive response to questions following his serious charges invite the suggestion that he’s looking for ways to shield himself from his problems, self-inflicted or otherwise.

This goes both ways. Wrigley’s recent history with Latroy Hawkins, Jacques Jones, Dusty Baker, and Don Baylor invite the suggestion that maybe there’s something to Bradley’s claims.

Ted Lilly will make all things right again today

I could really use a win today. I’m feeling the blues lately. The Bleedcubbieblues…

I like it

bleedcubbiebluesssss, we’ve all got it.

Thanks for that title, Al

Now I’ve got “The Sounds of Silence” running through my head.

The words of the prophets are written on BCB…

You know, now that the song is in my head, too (thanks)

I can only think of the scene in Old School, and how the Cubs seem to be slowly sinking to the bottom of a pool without a fight.

Rosenbloom hit the nail on the head

I really do hope that we can find a trading partner for Bradley. I just don’t envision the Cubs winning with him. I also don’t think it’s any coincidence that our controversies went from basically zero to many after he came on board.

really?

all the fuss over Z last year? The pissy astros over the no-hitter?

all the fuss

about Dome’s free-fall?

there was no fuss.

Lou sat him, and that was that. that’s the difference, Dome is a team player.

I remember

a LOT of angst about it. “the contract is an albatross, what will we do about RF?”

I'm sure a lot of people did say that

I wasn’t one of them, though. And, it didn’t seem to have a negative effect on the chemistry of the team, and that’s the point i was trying to get across.

Maybe if we had DeRo as the clubhouse leader

with Bradley, things would have been different. I think that sure would have helped our chemistry and leaderless problem.

Plenty of calls to DFA him

Send him back to Japan. Do anything to get him off the team, including eating the money remaining on his contract.

Seems familiar somehow.

Of course it's no coincidence

The Chicago media couldn’t wait to welcome Bradley with open arms and a delicious apple pie.

I’m not usually a “blame the media” type of guy, but MB’s been a marked man for these jackals from the day he signed.

yep, they are really getting my ire right now.

I wish I could shut them up, they are making things worse.

I do agree with that.
yea, we agree. :)
Agreed.

They love it because it makes good copy – objectivity and (particularly when it comes to Phil Rogers) logic be damned.

Do you really think that if

Sori, Soto and Fontenot had played like they did last year that Milton would have dragged this team down? Milton can be a part of a good team, not just the go to spotlight guy.

I'm more apt to believe that the negativity

has had an adverse effect on Sori, Soto, and Fonty…not the other way around.

it's still

the Press’ fault.

So MIlton helped Soto go on his twinkie binge?

makes Sori swing at every slider off the plate? C’mon I don’t think he has the kind of affect on other players you do. You don’t like Milton, but don’t blame other players woes on him too.

I can see your point on that

and perhaps that’s my personal feelings speaking instead of reality.

I think many Cubs fans feelings about Milton Bradley's personality...

…affect how they view him as a baseball player. I agree with Rosenbloom’s point – and I can’t deny that Milton draws a lot of ire with his words and actions – but I choose to look past that and focus on his talents as a ballplayer.

Good post, Daver!

I wish more fans would try to focus a little better on that.

That April 22, 2008 game...

IIRC it was my first game of 2008. And yeah, it seems like a loooong time ago.

It was Ted Lilly’s first win after a shaky start (0-3) to 2008. ONEDEC’s grand slam came off of Jorge Sosa, who must have nightmares about Wrigley; he’s now on the Nationals, and the Cubs lit him up this Wednesday night. And Kevin Hart pitched the 9th for the Cubs; had forgotten he was on the big league club at all last year.

Even though Zito has pitched well lately...

11 earned runs allowed over his last 8 starts, SF would certainly dump his contract in a hurry if offered only 2 years of Milton in exchange. They have plenty of stupid contracts (Rowand, Renteria, Winn, Dave Roberts—$6.5 M to stay home!) they wish they’d never done.

I’m seeing Zito vs. Marquis on Saturday night, and am actually looking forward to it. I would have bet big money against that in April.

Yes.....

But could we give them Soriano’s instead, and use Bradley in one of the other aforementioned trade scenarios? I’d like to think on that one……….

Caption, sort of

Lou: Fifty bucks say you can run out there and kick Quade in the ass and get back here before he knows what happened.
Ted: Oh I know I could do it.
Lou: Fifty bucks…
Ted: Fifty buck huh?

This site has been really contentious this week

I don’t know if it would be better for us to lose the next ten games so we can get all the angst out of our system and focus on next year, or rather keep winning a few and keep the small of glimmer of hope flickering.

There is no way in hell I would take Vernon Wells for Milton Bradley.

NO
WAY
IN
HELL

You’ve got to be kidding me! Bradley is a significantly better defensive player, has better offensive metrics like OPS+ and BaBIP, and is a contract that is only here for two more years.

And it's a lot cheaper contract... not just a shorter contract...

Bradley has probably added more value to his teams than Wells over the past 3 years, in spite of his injuries.

I’m not saying we should definitely keep Bradley. But I’d rather have Bradley than Wells.

Anyone got a lineup yet?
just guessing here

riot, bradley, lee, aram, dome, sori, soto, baker

sigh

Fuld in CF
is the pitcher a lefty?
yes, Misch is a lefty
oh, I'm sure I'll get it right tomorrow when we face a righty.
I just tried to scribble it down per the pregame interview.

I think it’s this:

Theriot
Bradley
Lee
Ramirez
Baker
Soriano
Fuld
Hill
Lilly

+1 for having Hill in the lineup
at least he is playing him more often

that a small plus in Lou’s column

I like Baker there

Let’s see if he is over-promoted.

Don't like Baker in the 5 spot, but we don't have many options.
The Muffin Man will make you eat those words.
So what does Baker say to the fan taunting him?

“Eat me!”

"Bite me!"
Baker

understands the honor of putting on a Cubs uniform. He should bat in all positions.

(sarcasm aside I do like Jeff Baker)

I hope things pan out for him.
He will rise to the challenge.
I really didn't knead to hear that
He's just trying to get his piece of the pie
D'ough!
Batter up!
What kind of half-baked thread is this?

You won’t get a rise out of me!

Hope Lilly puts up some doughnuts.
I think Soto is in front of Fuld and Hill is obviously out.

otherwise, you were close.

that is my recollection…granted, I am on meds. I could be totally wrong.

No Hill today

Cubs lose

Piniella/Lilly caption...

Lou: Ted, give me your honest opinion of Larry
Ted: He’s overated
Lou: Yea, I agree. Hendry told me they were gonna spend all this money on players
          so I went along with his desire I keep him as pitching coach. What a dumbass I
          am!!!

Since Al

and others seem to think that Mitlon is overexaggerating or even making up these racial claims I want to repost this comment here. This comes from a BCB poster who sat in the stands yesterday

That’s me and I was there.
Section 206 Row #3. Second inning 4 guys in their early 20’s rolled in and sat two rows behind us. The section was mostly empty. Them in row 5, us in row three, rows 2 and 1 were vacant. The 106 Section usher is just in front of us, 10 feet from them.

Three guys were wearing Cubs-ish gear. two of the three had on the "if they lose, we still booze" T’s I can’t really call Cub stuff. The loudest and 4th brashley announced to the others they must suck if they let him, a White Sox fan, find them their seats.

They then proceeded to verbally crap on everyone in the area. The guy to our right in a Michigan jacket is a fag because he wasn’t a ND fan. To Soriano in the field, he needed to hit another wall because he sucks too much to play. To young women walking by, they had special seating arranged for them, To Kevin Gregg he sucked worse than LaTroy Hawkins because he wasn’t supposed to be a closer, etc.

Bradley’s first at bat, they were quiet until he made the out, then he was a horrible f’er who needed to leave town.

Second AB, they were abusive immediately when he strolled to the plate.

During the third AB, The one who had claimed to be a Sox fan yelled that Bradley "deserved to be beaten like Rodney King" for sucking like this.

Did I report this to security. No. The staff seemed fully aware. The usher was 10 feet away and looked at them with every utterance and word Security walked by constantly looking up at them.

Do I usually pay this close attention to a few drunks nearby? No, but I took my 5 year old daughter to her first game.

You could argue none of the comments individually were racist. I’m looking at the perspective if I was an African American man with big contract and believed I was underperforming and hearing abuse like this night in and night out. I would certainly believe there were racial undertones.

That the guy claimed to be a Sox fan is irrelevant to whether Bradley hears these things. It’s just ironic that it’s the reputation of Cubs fans and Bradley’s experiences as a Cub being discussed.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn’t understand
by N Oakley on Aug 28, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would like to see some of you doubters explain that and “HIGGYS” comment away.

italic

FAIL

Maybe try a block quote.
Let's see

Homophobic comments, attacks on white players like Gregg, sexist comments and a guy claiming to be a Sox fan making a racist comment — I do agree that making Rodney King references to a black guy is racist.

Seems like they are equal opportunity offenders.

No, seriously, the anectdote is horrible.

But I must giggle and your reliance on anectdotal evidence here. Your abacus broken today?

What else do you need?

Written affadavits from racists at wrigley? months of CCTV footage?

Of course it’s going to be anecdotal

I wonder if

their parents are proud of them?

LOL

My “abacus”

Sadly that is probably the most up to date educational tool Worf has used.

Photo caption:

Ted: Y’know a fan heckled me once.

Lou: Oh yeah? How’d that work for him?

Ted: (Long pause.) Not too good.

"You shouldn't heckle me, Johnny."

My father heckled me once. Once."

This is Fargin' War!

I guess you could say today's game is a Misch match.
*sigh* are you here all week? :P
Only until the puns run out.
Try the veal, tip your waitress, drive safely, g'night! ;-)
the waitress

is on a gyroscope.

I hope our performance at the plate

Results in a Misch mash.

Take your puns elsewhere

JUMP!

Mostly disappointment

The world – including the stands at Wrigley – can be full of jerks. Those jerks, their attitudes and their comments, wouldn’t matter if the Cubs were winning. They wouldn’t matter is Soto weren’t having a world-class sophomore slump, or Sori were on a streak, or the bullpen could be reliable two games in a row, or Piniella seemed to give a hoot, or. . . Bradley hadn’t choked.

This is really all about reaction to a pretty bad Cubs team, isn’t it? Especially in relation to the previous two years? At least apart from the jerks.

I admire those of you who can still joke about it, even if they are really lame jokes. I’m pretty close to clinical depression about this season…

Mets

Let’s forget all this and embarrass the Mets all weekend !

Bradley for Wells?

Are you serious? Absolutely not.

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