Bleed Cubbie Blue

One more note I forgot.

Ramirez’s ball was definitely foul.

No, wait. That’s not fair to Gregg, who got Tatis to hit a two-out fly ball that most left fielders would have caught up with. Alfonso Soriano actually did do that, then let the ball pop out of his clove.

FWIW todd hollandsworth said after the game that was a play most outfielders couldnt make

Maybe, maybe not.

Soriano had the ball in his glove. Would have been a great catch. I suspect Sam Fuld would have caught up to it.

i was surprised he got a glove on it

Like I said....

… Fuld, who is far faster than Soriano, would have caught up to it, in my opinion.

No one noticed his clove yet?

:-P haha

He just SMOKED it...

lol, I saw that. :)

slcathena - August 28, 2009 reply

Al

in your pre-game thread you took the side of Rosenbloom in stating that you think Bradley is exaggerating the claims. One of your posters has a first hand account that shows otherwise.

ce Al
and others seem to think that Mitlon is overexaggerating or even making up these racial claims I want to repost this comment here. This comes from a BCB poster who sat in the stands yesterday

That’s me and I was there.
Section 206 Row #3. Second inning 4 guys in their early 20’s rolled in and sat two rows behind us. The section was mostly empty. Them in row 5, us in row three, rows 2 and 1 were vacant. The 106 Section usher is just in front of us, 10 feet from them.

Three guys were wearing Cubs-ish gear. two of the three had on the “if they lose, we still booze” T’s I can’t really call Cub stuff. The loudest and 4th brashley announced to the others they must suck if they let him, a White Sox fan, find them their seats.

They then proceeded to verbally crap on everyone in the area. The guy to our right in a Michigan jacket is a fag because he wasn’t a ND fan. To Soriano in the field, he needed to hit another wall because he sucks too much to play. To young women walking by, they had special seating arranged for them, To Kevin Gregg he sucked worse than LaTroy Hawkins because he wasn’t supposed to be a closer, etc.

Bradley’s first at bat, they were quiet until he made the out, then he was a horrible f’er who needed to leave town.

Second AB, they were abusive immediately when he strolled to the plate.

During the third AB, The one who had claimed to be a Sox fan yelled that Bradley “deserved to be beaten like Rodney King” for sucking like this.

Did I report this to security. No. The staff seemed fully aware. The usher was 10 feet away and looked at them with every utterance and word Security walked by constantly looking up at them.

Do I usually pay this close attention to a few drunks nearby? No, but I took my 5 year old daughter to her first game.

You could argue none of the comments individually were racist. I’m looking at the perspective if I was an African American man with big contract and believed I was underperforming and hearing abuse like this night in and night out. I would certainly believe there were racial undertones.

That the guy claimed to be a Sox fan is irrelevant to whether Bradley hears these things. It’s just ironic that it’s the reputation of Cubs fans and Bradley’s experiences as a Cub being discussed.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn’t understand
by N Oakley on Aug 28, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would like to see some of you doubters explain that away. It seems no matter what people won’t accept that Bradley IS hearing racist comments either that or they dont care. Prove me wrong.

I can't disagree with you..

…. that there have been racist remarks made. I’m sure these are not the only ones.

Proving you wrong isn’t the point. Everyone from Derrek Lee to Billy Williams to Lou Piniella have advised Bradley to simply ignore these. He hasn’t been able to do that. He really has to. That’s the point.

Ok

thats a fair position. I don’t agree with it obviously but I wonder why you said Rosenbloom was spot on in his article. Rosenbloom was flat out saying Bradley was making it up which I don’t think any reasonable person would agree with.

Simply ignore it my arse.

I’ll come to your work and yell at you all day. See if you can “simply ignore it”.

Look, he elected to work in a profession where there are live spectators to his work. I get that. And under ideal situations, i’d agree… grow some thicker skin and blow it off.

But this is different. Bradley is singled out, is hated on harder than players who perform worse and are paid better. And ignoring it, simply letting it go, isn’t a rational response. Why shouldn’t this be brought to light? Why shouldn’t he harp on it till Wrigley security pulls the assholes out of the crowd that are doing this? Tossing a beer at a player isn’t acceptable, even if the players escape it unscathed… why should tossing racist remarks at them be?

The “he’s just making it worse by bringing it up” argument isn’t any good either. Like i said, the impression is that Wrigley takes no action against this. We’ve all been in the bleachers and heard more racist and homophobic comments during BP than we should. Maybe his pointing it out repeatedly will get it the attention it needs so that N Oakley can take his 5 year old daughter to a bleacher game and not feel she’s heard things she shouldn’t.

This.

Also, FWIW...

… the last time i was in the bleachers, i heard somebody shout a dead baby themed joke at one of the white players. I won’t go in to the details, but you only go that route if you are really just angling for shock value.

Honestly, I’m not interested in the racism angle… as i stated in the FanPost that got removed, a racism argument between a bunch of predominantly white, straight, upperclass individuals who’ve never been the victim of hate crime or the derogatory slurs that MB and everyone else who takes the field at Wrigley experience is silly.

But as a whole, filth and bile pours from the bleachers down on to the players at Wrigley, regardless of race, age, talent, achievement level, or jersey color. Maybe Milton doesn’t have the PR savvy to combat it in the best and most eloquent way, but blasting him for doing so or acting like he should just shut up is a just a short step form endorsing the behavior.

Hmmm.

Your point about people yelling bad stuff at white players — and they do — and at Latino players — and they do — proves my point, I think.

You don’t hear about these other players making comments to the media. No, they pretty much just shut up and ignore it.

That’s what Milton needs to do. Maybe he’s not wired that way. In that case, he may be in the wrong business.

I just don't understand.

If you don’t point out mistreatment, it doesn’t go away on its own. It’s WRONG for these people to be doing this, and it’s WRONG for the players to not fight back.

Stand up for yourselves!

Al

if somebody started to heckle you at work for being a Jew would you “shut up and ignore it”? Would you be telling Sam Fuld the same thing if people were yelling "You should get the final solutions for sucking so bad! or Kike? I doubt it.

Also, Jacque Jones didn’t shut up, Hawkins didn’t shut up and neither did Dusty Baker. And good for them, this isnt the 1950’s black athletes are allowed to speak out especially vs this kind of garbage.

final solutions?

gah. that is embarrassing.

I see your point.

No one is saying that racial remarks are acceptable. Read my comments on Rosenbloom’s column this morning for how I feel about this — Rosenbloom is, for once, 100% right.

see to me

when rosenbloom writes this “But Bradley’s history and now his dismissive response to questions following his serious charges invite the suggestion that he’s looking for ways to shield himself from his problems, self-inflicted or otherwise.”

Is pretty clearly implying Bradley is either A) exaggerating or B) outright lying about what he is hearing.

Look, we all know racist comments have been directed at Milton Bradley. You said so yourself, why then is the onus on him to tell us when and what he heard? Shouldn’t be enough that he is hearing it? And again please explain why you feel BRADLEY of all people should have to “shut up”about it?

You know, I thought about this some more.

If I had to hear some things like that about my own background at my job (presuming that my job, like Bradley’s, can come with heckling as part of the job description), I think the better part of valor is turning your cheek.

The people yelling racist remarks — which are wrong in any case — want nothing more than to get a reaction out of Bradley. They have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

If he ignored them, this stuff would have stopped. Instead, he calls people out and then, as Rosenbloom wrote:

Racism is serious. If you are concerned or angry enough to put that in the public discussion, then you seemingly should be motivated to explain when and where this happened. How else do you take a step toward keeping it from happening again?

But when Bradley offers only cynicism and sarcasm, he diminishes the severity of the issue. Moreover, he does a disservice to those suffering abuse but who are willing to fight the fight head on.

That’s exactly correct. Bradley is a good player, though not a great one. He’s become a giant distraction. He has to go.

If ignoring it stopped it, we wouldn't be hearing about it from multiple players.

There is a history of this stuff, and yes MB is probably getting it worse by complaining about it to the media, and yes he isn’t capable of handling it with grace, but maintaining he should keep it to himself (or should be traded, particularly as he’s one of the team’s more productive players at this point) because he’s pissy about the abuse he’s taking is crazy.

N Oakley wasn’t comfortable taking his daughter to the bleachers because of the level of vitriol out there. Some of the things he was hearing we’ve all heard, well before MB started bringing attention to it. If he ignored it, it would continue, through his time here, and on to the next JJ or MB-esque player we have in our outfield.

Don’t think this stuff doesn’t get noticed by other players, including free agents. And don’t think it won’t, at some point, enter some sought after player’s mind that he’s got enough millions of dollars, and he’ll take the slightly smaller deal to play someplace he won’t have to be abused day in and day out.

Al

No one should have to take it. No one. I remember when you were quite agitated about even a hint of anti Semitism and you were 100% right. The suggestion that some racism should be dealt with by ignoring it and others are unacceptable is a double standard that I refuse to accept.

The fact that Williams and other athletes were able to ignore it does not justify that Bradley should turn the other cheek. The fact that Bradley isn’t as accepting is not a reason to castigate him. Sure, he has issues. Yes, he isn’t as likeable as Ernie or Billy. Tell me, just how much should he have to accept? If security can’t root out the punks who are over the top, then get people there who can. Bradley is part of the Cubs family. As such, I have his back. If he goes into the stands, I’ll be the first to criticize him. If he dogs it, I’ll boo his lazy butt. But I’ll be damned if I ask him to turn the other cheek and shame on anyone who does.

tharr - August 29, 2009 reply

rec'd.

We do not get to tell other people how to react to racism and personal attacks that are inflicted upon them.

yup

Well said Andrew.

Thanks Sue!

I’m headed out to warm up my liver for tomorrow’s game in the bleachers segueing in to a combo of birthday and bachelor parties spread across the north side. Be well all.

Have fun.

Is it your birthday?

OK, I care. Now what should I do about it?

besides make a "We hate people who make racist remarks to Milton Bradley" group on facebook?

like totally

condemn

it instead of making snarky comments about overly sensitive PC police which you do 24/7.

I CONDEM THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE RACIST REMARKS TO MILTON BRADLEY!

(I actually stood up in the office and said this loudly.)

condem?

ChicagoCubsFan - August 28, 2009 reply

I have a funny accent.

Gotta protect yourself from the racists

No…wait…

im glad

but its weird that you spent the last few days accusing everyone of bringing race into things when it clearly wasn’t there.

Either way, its good to know you and Al acknowledge its there. Having people like you say it will hopefully convince others who deny it.

What the hell?

That conversation was about another posters comment about Bradley (and it didn’t mention race). I’ve never asserted that Bradley wasn’t hearing racist taunts.

Nor have I "accused" anyone of anything...

except maybe daver of stealing a certain DVD from me.

ok

you are right. I looked back at the comment I was thinking of and I was wrong.

Apologies.

Sheesh, give a brother a break.

look

he’s not gonna return the Winsome Women of Wrigley movie. You need to let it go. :P

Maybe this was addressed in the other thread, but since you're bringing it up again here, I gotta ask

Did Security do anything besides walking by and constantly looking at them?

If not, isn’t that a massive FAIL by the Cubs?

ballhawk - August 28, 2009 reply

I bet all those security people are the BCB members that don't believe Bradley.

that was the part that

really confused me. Especially the Rodney King thing. How could security do nothing about that? Do they really need the extra beer money those morons provided by staying?

Certain things will get you booted...

… because you physically appear to be in the wrong, and there are cameras everywhere, so the ushers / security guys know that their bosses can she the shenanigans taking place and know they must act on them.

In the case of some guy shouting things, its less likely security higher ups notice, its harder to pinpoint who did it, and because of that, less worth the effort of booting the person.

Especially when you consider that ESPN Chicago reported

That people were thrown out for saying “Bradley sucks”

i can't

believe I am agreeing with this but if that is all the person said then they should not have been kicked out. Weird all around

http://espn.go.com/chicago/columns/blog?post=4427837&name=friedell

There's always the possibility ESPN Chicago got it wrong too

Here’s that link.

Here’s the passage:

In some ways, that statement seemed prophetic. As the day carried on, Bradley continued to struggle. He was 0-for-4 and looked lost at the plate. Between Bradley’s lack of production and his lack of acknowledgment toward the bleacher bums, one fan finally had enough. “Milton,” he bellowed while staring at Bradley’s back. “You suck.”

The plump security guard who had been waiting all day to pounce finally did. He motioned for the fan to come over to the steps so they could talk. The fan looked confused and hesitantly went over to the other side of the section. He walked up the ramp with the security guard while his friends followed behind. Two more security patrolmen arrived, and an awkward discussion unfolded. The security guard told the fan who made the comment to leave.

“Once they grabbed him and escorted him out, I got up and said, ‘Milton Bradley sucks,’ all the way up to the [top row],” Cubs fan Zack Stewart said. “[They kicked us all out] for saying Milton Bradley sucks.”

According to the fans, when the security guards kicked them out, they said, “You can all leave because you don’t support the Cubs.”

That last part would irritate the frick out of me if I was a fan of the opposing team. I live closer to St. Louis than Chicago and no Cardinal usher better throw me out for not supporting the Cardinals.

Whooops... quote fail

The last paragraph is mine. Everything else is from the story.

agreed

if that story is true and I have no reason to think otherwise then somebody needs to sit down with cubs security and point out that calling for a black player to get the Rodney King treatment IS a reason to kick somebody out. A “you suck” is stupid but not worth booting a guy for.

The biggest problem will be inconsistency

I can get on board — believe it or not — with cracking down.

But I’d like to see the same standards from section to section or game to game. Obviously, it’ll be a little like umpires and strike zones — some ushers will have a higher fuse — but I’d like to see at least the same “magic words” result in an ejection.

I wonder what

the average age of the ushers is? Do some age groups have more tolerance than others?

I'm sure some do

and some age groups have a different ear for racist, sexist, or homophobic comments.

In other words, there isn’t much difference in tolerance, but just a difference in awareness.

That's true.

YES IT IS A FAILURE.......

But the minute they take action warch out ( THe Right to free speech ) . It is a very fine line , I wonder what if any training the guards/ushers have on this topic ??

cubs north - August 28, 2009 reply

Free Speech

doesn’t shield you from getting booted at a ballpark. A guy could walk into my office tomorrow and start shouting the n word and we can kick him out no problem.

I bet you couldn't if the guy was black.

bleh

i was starting to feel a bit magnanimous to you and now this

Now what? You seriously think you could kick him out "no problem"?

of course!

simply because SOME black people chose to use that word doesn’t mean it isn’t offensive or that I couldn’t send a black person saying it out the door. I really doubt the black engineer down the hall would be ok with allowing someone to act like that.

Ok.

WRIGLEY NEEDS A ZERO TOLLERANCE

policy on this type of verbal abuse . Alot of ushers turn and look the other way . Rather then get the real police involved . ( Who really should deal with this )

cubs north - August 28, 2009 reply

It's not that fine of a line...

when speech is blatantly that slanderous and abusive. Nobody has the right to verbally abuse another person. You can’t expect to walk down the street and hurl insults at people without fear of consequences as long as you cite your first amendment rights afterwards.

I don't support yelling at players but "you suck"

has basically been shouted at almost every outfielder from the bleachers . 90% of it has been directed at VISTING players. You really can’t eject people for yelling " You suck " at Adam Dunn, Manny Ramirez or Milton Bradley. I have to say Dunn handled it great in a game when he had a few of his horrible defensive playes. People shouted " Dunn Sucks" , gave him mock standing ovations. made cracks about his inability to field etc. Dunn smiled and took a bow and then after he hit a home run came out mock cheering the fans. The vast majority of fans are not terribly creative in what they shout at players. I have NEVER, EVER heard a racist remark in the Bleachers. I am sure there have been a few but I simply don’t believe they are common and they surely would be a reason to eject someone.

Doggie Stalker - August 29, 2009 reply

Just read the fine print on the back of an old ticket

“Holder… …agrees not to act in a disorderly or disruptive manner.”

Seems to give the Cubs enough leverage to take appropriate action.

ballhawk - August 28, 2009 reply

To pile on here..

You don’t have free speech at a venue. Obviously, a team can make decisions based on alienating customers ~~- either by being too strict or not strict enough (and annoying the others) -~~ but you don’t have free speech.

Now, if the city of Chicago decided to fine you or jail you for purely speaking, you’d have a case.

no offense to Bradley

I am sure his claim is legitimate, but he should try and keep things in perspective and think about the racial abuse Jackie Robinson and other african american players endured in prior decades which I am sure was far more frequent and the language far more incendiary. Of course even one racial slur directed at Bradley is one too many and should not be tolerated, but has $30 million reasons to be the bigger person and tune it out.

BeltwayCubsFan - August 28, 2009 reply

no amount of money

should buy off this kind of ignorance.

Exactly.

“Keep things in perspective” is redic. How about honoring the memory of Jackie Robinson by continuing his fight for equality and fair treatment, including calling out and bringing to light environments that aren’t welcoming to minorities?

That's exactly the point Steve Rosenbloom made, and I agree with.

Bradley isn’t doing what you suggest. Instead he’s blaming the media. He could very easily take the fight that way if he chose to, but he’s not going down that road.

the media

is at fault.

the media

is culpable. They ask Milton a question and he gives his honest opinion. He is then vilified for it.

No, it's not.

You & I will continue to have to agree to disagree.

I know.

It’s ok. :D

Yep

The evil media held Bradley down and RIPPED those words right out of him.

to quote

Barney Frank “On what planet do you spend most of your time?”

Lets break it down

Media- Milton do you feel the comments have something to do with race?

Bradley doesn’t deny it and says the reporter should come spend a day in RF.

So what exactly is your beef there? Should Bradley lie and say “No! Cub fans would never say that!” or should he just shut his mouth and not speak out on it?

and further

Bradley went on record saying most Cub fans have been “awesome” but “a few rotten apples can spoil it”

Its not like the guy blasted every single Cub fans. Frankly, the only person acting rational about the entire thing is Milton Bradley.

That, I think, proves the point.

“A few rotten apples”. If, as Bradley says, most Cubs fans are “awesome”, then just ignore the few bad ones.

I disagree with your contention that “the only person acting rational about the entire thing is Milton Bradley”.

My beef ISN'T with Bradley

it’s with people blaming the media.

If you want to celebrate his words, that’s fine. But I’m sick and tired of people acting like his words were somehow coerced out of him.

who

is acting like that?

drew... saying the media is at fault here

All the media can do is ASK you questions. From that point, ball’s in your court

Worf - August 29, 2009 reply

you seriously

underestimate the ability of the media to manipulate and direct. They control what you see and read. If a player says something bad about the manager and then says “just joking” the reporter can simply leave the “just joking” off and print the bad thing. And then thousands of people read it, and take it as the truth.

The media has a lot of power, and it is frequently abused to make a story “better”.

no

but they certainly can ask directed questions, and quote sections that provide a certain tone.

The second he stopped talking to the media...

… there would be a fanpost counting the days the evil MB had been ignoring the media.

Which has already happened

when he went on his media boycott earlier. Everyone lost it about how “talking to the media is part of it”.

No wonder he’s so pissed off, no one seems willing to give him an inch of slack.

agreed

sue369 - August 29, 2009 reply

And would you have told Jackie Robinson to keep things in perspective

because of the outright horrors many African Americans went through in the decades prior to his playing?

Really really bad argument.

the nth - August 29, 2009 reply

Interesting that you bring up Robinson....

… who had to deal with far worse things in his first year than Bradley ever has as a baseball player… and turned the other cheek to them.

Interesting, the difference in reaction.

Furthermore

Had Robinson made the comments Bradley did, he would have been run out of baseball.

Had Hank Aaron made the comments Bradley did.

Robinson and Aaron didn’t really have the option of complaining like Bradley did.

Or, if they did, they wouldn’t have gotten 1/100th of the support Bradley is getting.

The Cubs should be doing more to stop it, but at some point, Bradley has to know that not every idiot can be controlled and it’s best not to govern your life by how idiots behave.

Worf - August 29, 2009 reply

they are different people

it is extraordinarily unfair of you to compare the two in this manner. Shall we compare Ghandi to Golda Meir? Or Rabin?

The last time I was at Wrigley

I was reprimanded by an usher for sitting on the wall while posing for a picture. I’m surprised that the ushers won’t approach noisy fools like those and in so many polite words, tell them to STFU.

JFCubFan - August 28, 2009 reply

To take the opinion

that just because it appears as though security doesn’t give a rats arse about the cussing isn’t a good reason to let it go. Maybe if N Oakley had approached an usher and said, “Hey man, I brought my kid to this game to have a good time and those idiots are being rude, profane and disgusting.” Something might have gotten done. If good people don’t stand up for what’s right, they can’t expect anything to happen.

The beautiful thing about the first amendment is that we all have the right to tell someone we think they’re an idiot without fear of repercussion (although I can’t remember the last time I called my boss an idiot to her face). So do those guys have the right to be stupid? Unfortunately, yes. Do we have a right to stand up to them and get them to keep it clean? Of course we do.

CubsGirl - August 28, 2009 reply

That isn't true

You do not have to fear reprecussions from the government — to whit, they cannot jail or fine you for merely speaking your piece (with narrow exceptions such as inciting a stampede by shouting “Fire” in the theater)

But you are NOT free from reprecussion. You can be fired for calling your boss an idiot.

Other parents can refuse to allow their kids to play with yours. You can be kicked out of private clubs. You can pretty much assure yourself the opposite sex will find you disgusting.

You have freedom of speech.

You do NOT have freedom from consequence.

approaching an usher -

or text security – it does seem like the Cubs are making an effort to help fans to turn in out of control ‘hecklers’ – perhaps that would have gotten those guys ejected

doofus cubs guy - August 29, 2009 reply

A win is a win but.....

Man, that was a brutal game by the offence!!!! Yes they scored the critical runs in the 8th but, these are supposed to be easy wins on this home trip!! I shook my head at the T.V about 20 times thinking and saying, in disbelief, man the Cubs suck.

All this talent, needing a miracle in the eighth, against a bunch of back-ups in the Mets coming off a series loss to the Nats.

16 days left until Bears vs. Packers

Freddyd - August 28, 2009 reply

Overcoming 1 run is a miracle to you?

Devin B - August 28, 2009 reply

Simply awesome

16 days left until Bears vs. Packers

Woohoo. :-)

now give me back the DVD you borrowed from Daver.

You'll apprecitate this then Allie...

Oooh

thats awesome! :-)

I loaned the DVD to Madison though… good luck getting it back from her!

What is this

Like a Kevin Bacon thing?

Maddie got it from Allie, Allie got it from…..

Any chance you got that in 1440 x 900?

four games in December

all at Soldier field. Insane. :D

I'm shivering just thinking about it.

Nothing can top green bay the season before last… people’s beers were freezing in their cups before they could finish them. It was still cold after i got home and passed out for 12 hours. I woke up shivering THE NEXT DAY.

I'll believe it

I was at the Bears-Falcons game in 2005, Grossman’s first game back. I’ve never been that cold (or that drunk…peppermint snapps in hot chocolate will do that).

Curtain Jerker - August 28, 2009 reply

I can't imagine drinking beer outside in that weather.

That’s vodka weather!

aldimond - August 28, 2009 reply

I work the games, so i'm all hot chocolate, all the time...

… but back at Iowa i used to make alcoholic apple cider before games. No better way to stay warm.

Make hot cider in a crock pot and add mulling spices and either dark rum or bourbon.

Yahtzee.

Cinnamon schnapps

is good in hot apple cider too. :D

you work the games

really. can you get tickets? :D

My concert industry carrer has allowed me...

… to work security to events and venues around the Midwest. I get to do a few cubs games a year, all the bears games, Chicago marathon, things of that nature. It’s pretty great.

No ticket hookup though, unfortunately.

Yeah

we were without power for 2 days (saturday night until monday afternoon) so i missed watching the whole game. and it was the first bears/packers game in years i didn’t even acknowledge. No hot water, no electricity, no football… it was a hellish weekend.

That schedule might be wrong ... I'm only counting seven away games.

Nine home games, seven road games.

Three games.

The second-to-last one is Bears @ Ravens, not Ravens @ Bears

right, can't wait. Go Pack!!

.:: Ducks for cover ::.

BleedsbluinMI - August 28, 2009 reply

Where you at, BleedsbluinMI?

I grew up in the U.P. Is that where you are?

Blue Heron - August 28, 2009 reply

The U.P., eh?

Ya. Youbetcha…

I didn't hear the "youbetcha" thing up there much, actually.

You must be thinking of the movie Fargo. Eh?

Blue Heron - August 28, 2009 reply

The black flies are lovely this time of year...

Just kidding. Actually, I love going to the U.P. Don’t get up there enough. Did a week-long shoreline bicycle tour on the east side a few years ago. It was great. No flies. It was July though, so they weren’t ripe yet…

No, I'm down in the lower, right across the lake from Chicago

Just have always been a Packer fan.

BleedsbluinMI - August 28, 2009 reply

Ah. I grew up going to the Bears game at Lambeau every year.

Blue Heron - August 28, 2009 reply

I went to that game in 2000.

Probably the only game I’ll ever see in Lambeau Field.

And before then, I thought Patriots fans were bad.

Define "bad" please

Vermont Cubs Fan - August 29, 2009 reply

Like this,

The Packers were losing, the fans were all getting rowdy, they wanted something to happen, and many of them had had beer, which didn’t help things at all.

I put a sign up, and someone behind me said (paraphrasing) “Get that thing down!” I’m leaving out at least two expletives. It was a very bad day all around.

After the fan behind me said that, I briefly did fear for my own safety.

Oh, spare me.

I’ve run into many more rude, drunk fans at Wrigley than at Lambeau.

Blue Heron - August 29, 2009 reply

For me, it's Lambeau.

I’ve never had a problem at Wrigley.

Vermont Cubs Fan - August 29, 2009 reply

I've had a supposed fellow Cubs fan spill beer all over me on purpose.

I’ve heard that being a Packers fan at games in Chicago isn’t fun, either. All it takes is one idiot to make an experience a bad one.

At least the fans at Lambeau aren’t checking their email every five minutes, like a lot of folks seem to do at Wrigley. The worst thing about being a Cubs fan isn’t the bad play on the field; it’s the Wrigley Experience fans who outnumber the people who actually know their baseball.

Blue Heron - August 29, 2009 reply

Keep that up

And we’ll see that blue blood…

Go Pack Go!

Blue Heron - August 28, 2009 reply

I don't think

any wins are going to come easy. But maybe that makes them better.

I'm a Packers fan,

But I’m not going to bring that game up. Largely because the Bears are also one of my favorites. A few years ago, when the Bears went to the Super Bowl, I cheered for them.

I don't hate the Bears. I reserve that for the Vikings.

Blue Heron - August 28, 2009 reply

This is somewhat on topic...

I’m the same way with hockey. I’m told I should hate the Blues, but I don’t at all. I live in St. Louis now, and really like this Blues team. All my hatred is directed toward Detroit….

Same here.

I hate the Vikings and Patriots (probably because there are a lot of over-enthusiastic Patriots fans here in Vermont).

exactly. boo Vikings!

BleedsbluinMI - August 28, 2009 reply

The Vikings are easy to boo normally

With Farve playing, especially easy :-)

I think,

That’s one thing Bears fans and Packers fans will enjoy doing this year—booing the Vikings.

Thats one thing my Packer fan buddies and I have always agreed on

purple = boo. :-P

It's looking to be too little too late, but today's game is what I expected of the 09 Cubs.

Not all of the bats are going to hit every game, but putting up 5 runs and getting a good pitching outing is what you want. Soriano and Bradley carried the team, Gregg and Marmol closed it out well. Games like this needed to be a lot more consistent, but it’s still not too late even now. 7 behind the Cards in the loss column with three head to heads mean that they can still do it. I am clinging to a thin tendril of hope, but it’s still there. I really want to like this team…

DisCUBbobulated - August 28, 2009 reply

Soriano has been trying to play through pain because he feels he needs to help the team

Yet somehow playing in pain is a bad thing. Has he been bad? yes he has, but the guy deserves to be praised for his willingness to play through pain, something certain Cubs players haven’t always done.

nji232 - August 28, 2009 reply

I think he really felt the

need to play when Aramis was out. I think he put so much pressure on himself to perform then.

I think you're right, sue

I don’t think Soriano is a bad guy. In fact, he sounds like a really good teammate.

Darned if you do, darned if you don’t, I guess.

Yeah Soriano is giving his all out there

Injured and everything he wants to play.

nji232 - August 28, 2009 reply

I'm a fan of Soriano for this reason

I hate that he hasn’t been playing well lately, but he’s doing it in a way that is respectable to me.

slcathena - August 28, 2009 reply

Darned if you do

Play terrible ball at 80% when a two-week stint on the DL could get you playing at 100% again. This injury dates back to late April – surely there have been two weeks since the ASB when Soriano could have gone on the DL and the team would not have been worse off.

I’m neutral on Soriano (as I am with most players) – I don’t love him or hate him, but if the extended funk he has been in for most of the season could have been avoided or interrupted by a DL stint, then someone’s a fool for not putting him on the DL.

Agreed.

Piniella gives Soriano too much leeway to decide if he’s in good enough shape to play.

Blue Heron - August 29, 2009 reply

i'm not sure that it's something a two week DL stint would cure

was at the game yesterday and he really runs ‘gingerly’ – i bet there’s an operation in the off season and/or if he is shut down for the year – and it will be much longer than a two week recovery

doofus cubs guy - August 29, 2009 reply

I doubt it.

I think Lou has felt all season that he couldn’t afford to have Soriano out of the lineup. It seems counter-intuitive, but there it is.

most men can sympathize with failing miserably when you put too much pressure on yourself to perform.

Yes, we can...

Wait, just what are we talking about here ?

Southside Steve - August 28, 2009 reply

I have

no idea what you’re talking about. * whistles innocently *

I think Pinella and Hendry wanted him in there too

I don’t blame Soriano for wanting to play — I admire it — but at some point, the bosses have to be bosses.

Yeah that is another conversation though

It would mark the first time Hendry ever took charge.

nji232 - August 28, 2009 reply

how about Pineilla?

he is afterall the manager. Soriano may have wanted to play, and as others have said, its commendable, but if Lou knew he was hurting……..and saw how poorly he was playing……..then continuing to trot him out there daily is criminally incompetent

Illicat - August 28, 2009 reply

I admire him for it too, if he really has been suffering knee pain the entire time.

However he should be very careful about doing serious, permanent damage to his knee, which could affect him for the rest of his life. I have seen many ex-professional athletes with bad knees, who still suffered when walking 10 years after retirement.

eths - August 29, 2009 reply

Life left in the corpse?

Ouch.

EJThunder - August 28, 2009 reply

Was that the corpse of

Soriano or the Cubs?

I was confused.

If there's life

it ain’t a corpse.

Just sayin’. ;-)

Cubbiefaithful - August 28, 2009 reply

Only 6 back in the loss column in the WC...

It's just a phrase.

Hyperbole. Got your attention, didn’t it?

C'mon, Al,

nobody here EVER uses hyperbole to make a point .. :P

LOL.

I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate.

LIFE! DO YOU HEAR ME? GIVE MY CREATION... LIFE!

katie casey - August 29, 2009 reply

Anything on Heilman?

Anything?

no

if hendry keeps him because he thinks the other team isnt giving up enough, i will strangle someone

whew

thought i was alone. i’d take a guy scheduled to see doc andrews on thursday.

hey AL

who were the 3 girls sitting 2 rows directly down you?

they were cute, especially the one with the orange/red dress

mind hooking me up?

hiphopgamer26 - August 28, 2009 reply

Oh and they were being naughty at times

i like that

hiphopgamer26 - August 28, 2009 reply

Facebookatbcbdotcom :)

Sorry they were with their boyfriends

Doggie Stalker - August 28, 2009 reply

LOL

I didn’t know them.

You were there? Why didn’t you stop by and say hi?

I wasnt in the bleachers

i was next to the cubs bullpen

hiphopgamer26 - August 29, 2009 reply

Cubs Stay Over .500

If the Cubs finish over .500, that will make their third consecutive winning season. They haven’t done that since 1970-1972. Okay, we were shooting for more than that, but you’ve got to take something positive out of this season.

memphiscub - August 28, 2009 reply

Odds we finish over .500 next year?

Devin B - August 28, 2009 reply

I know you were trying to be positive

but that really depressed me. I knew we’d been awful… thats even worse then i thought.

1980-1983

That period really depressed me. The only not-so-dark spots in those days were the second half of 1982 and the first half of 1983. 73-89 in 1982 was the best record the Cubs had during that dreadful 4-season period. Only having five winning seasons between 1973-2000 was bad.

memphiscub - August 28, 2009 reply

Then Dallas Green took over as GM

traded for a phew Phillies, and we were a good team for awhile. Until just after Dalls Green left and we had “Useless” on the GM’s Nameplate for a spell.

Dallas Green was GM in the 1982 and 1983 seasons.

Just pointing that out. He didn’t produce an instant winner in one year.

Minor Correction

After getting only two runners past first base through seven innings, one of them scoring, the Cubs wasted Ted Lilly’s outstanding starting outing when Kevin Gregg gave up a run-scoring single to Fernando Tatis.

Tatis was credited with a double.

AlSpangler - August 28, 2009 reply

Thanks.

That’s strange, since he probably wouldn’t have taken 2nd base if not for the throw to the plate.

Tennessee gets two singles to start off the first inning.

Need a win to keep pace with West Tennessee.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Nevertheless, a win is a win, and well done at that. They’ll try to take another one from the Mets tomorrow. Keep the faith.

I remember how my college track and cross-country coach used the phrase “keep the faith” at important times, when things looked bleak. As a freshman I thought it was an awkward phrase for running as running is black-and-white. You train and you run certain times; there’s no debating. You know precisely who is better, and worse, than you. But it makes sense. Just like this year’s team. We know there’s load of talent on the 2009 Cubs. There’s little logic to their dysfunction. All we can do is watch, wish, and keep the faith.

Mr Snrub - August 28, 2009 reply

Forget about NL Central

Just get to 5 back in WC by Sep. 1st. Giants and Rockies play againts each other, it is actually possible if Cubs win next 3.

If we can be 5 back by Sep. 1st then to me, the team is not out of it until mathematically eliminted.

ak123 - August 28, 2009 reply

no offense

but we could be 2 GB and it would be hard to get excited about a team that makes multiple fielding and baserunning gaffes per game. I mean we won despite ourselves today. A baserunning blunder, four terrible plays by the outfield, Theriot airmailed a routine throw from SS that Lee was fortunate to still make a play on…This is not a good team and it just ain’t going to happen this year. Sorry.

BeltwayCubsFan - August 28, 2009 reply

theriot airmailed a lot of throws last year

this isnt a new occurance

Just because Hope is dead in DC

Don’t kill it here!

Oh I know its a giant possibility

But once I lose that hope, then I can’t enjoy September and I want to enjoy their final month. It’s the only time they come to NY for the year and I want to think they might still be in it some how.

ak123 - August 28, 2009 reply

Oh, it's still possible. Unlikely, but possible.

Bring up the I-Cubs and turn ’em loose…

Remember

The Cubs have a four-game series in late September in San Francisco. That could be a big series any way you look at it.

Sure, Bruce...

as a “spoiler”.

That is the ONLY way it might be “big”.

And not to the Cubs.

The E-Man - August 28, 2009 reply

Probably, E, probabaly

But the truth is, neither one of us knows the answer to that question.

That’s what makes sports so great. Until the games are played, you don’t know.

Rockies were an embarrassment...

…to themselves tonight. Early in the game, Uribe hit a sky-high pop up about five feet up the third base line off Jimenez. Jimenez, the catcher, and the third baseman were all standing their watching it, got about two feet from each other, nobody called it, and it dropped between them all for a double.

It’s a good thing the Giants have pitching, ‘’cause their offense looks more anemic than the Cubs’ has.

LeSaboteur - August 29, 2009 reply

Which is why

The Giants might be a team Cubs actually could get to if they have patient at-bats. Plus stars could be aligned and we might not face both of their aces.

ak123 - August 29, 2009 reply

amazing.

Cincy is beating up on the Dodgers, 3-0 in the bottom of the 5th
Padres beating Florida 7-3 in the 4th
Natinals and St. Louis 0-0 in the 2nd.

And Cincy is just coming off

a sweep of the Brewers in Milwaukee.

Indeed, baseball is a funny game.

BTW, it’s 1-0 Cards top 3.

How buried, actually,

does the team have to be before you realize this crap-ass team will not be winning the Division, and throw in the towel with the quote, “I, Not Bruce Froemming, believe that the 2009 Cubs team will NOT win the Division, or win the Wild Card” ?

The E-Man - August 28, 2009 reply

I dunno about Bruce.

But I’ll say it the day the Cubs are mathematically eliminated from contention. If that happens.

Ha!

Jinx!

heh-heh.

I can't speak for NBF, but

It will take mathematically eliminated before I say that. Why are you here if you don’t have any faith?

Thanks, guys

You both said it better than I ever could.

and now it's 1-1

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb

check the results for the poll

wow that's utterly ridiculous

I’m not particularly a fan of Bradley, but 9% more people think he’s a bigger problem than the offense as a whole?

Illicat - August 28, 2009 reply

whats wierder

is 14% think the starting pitching is the problem

Obviously 14%

haven’t actually watched them play

Cracks me the hell up.

Lets say for the fun of it you’ve got to draft a team to play a 7 game series over the next week, wherein the drafting loser of the series dies. This series starts tomorrow, so tonight you’ve got to choose your team. You can build the team as you wish, but you MUST pick 5 non-pitchers from the current cubs roster as of this moment to play as a part of your team. They will continue playing tomorrow with the same momentum, injuries, whatever else as they ended today with.

Who do you chose? No chance you skip Bradley, and that is IF he makes it out of the top three. In fact, filling the 5th spot after you’ve got Rami, DLee, Dome and MB is hard… Theriot i suppose.

How the HELL could anybody possibly choose Bradley over “offense” in that poll? And seriously, who is voting “starting pitching”? Why is that even an OPTION?

I might take

Baker over Riot.

Interesting. I might consider that as well, taking defense in to account (which i wasn't really doing before).

Stupid is always an option

Why would you take an obvious clubhouse cancer?

Bradley would do nothing but make comments which would drag the rest of the team into answering irrelevant questions from the media during the 7 game series. I predict your opponent would have you on the guillotine after Game 5 if you picked MB as one of your Alltel My Circle.

I suggest a non-controversial alternative, to keep team chemistry strong. Fontenot or Miles would be ideal picks in this regard.

Clutch16 - August 29, 2009 reply

Miles?

I hope you aren’t serious.

I kinda figured throwing Miles in there

Would be a dead giveaway that the entire post could be thought of as the absolute opposite of serious. Either I’m still being too subtle or your sarcasm meter is slightly impaired.

Clutch16 - August 29, 2009 reply

Sarcasm meter super impaired. Blame the rum & pineapples, it was all that was in the crib.

But i did decide i want to get a dog. Maybe a puggle. I might try to find this one. He’s raw.

he/she is adorable

sue369 - August 29, 2009 reply

Would look good in a Hawkeyes collar, no?

:-)

that's an Illini dog if I've ever seen one

Worf - August 29, 2009 reply

I see no signs...

… of that dog only being accepted as a puggle due to knowing somebody in the admission office. :-)

and ryan freel is now a ranger

his fourth team already this season

that’s got to be approaching a record

Illicat - August 28, 2009 reply

That is a record.

It is held by:

Mike Kilkenny, 1972 Tigers/A’s/Padres/Indians

Dave Kingman, 1977 Mets/Padres/Angels/Yankees (one team in each of the 4 divisions at the time)

Dave Martinez, 2000 Devil Rays/Cubs/Rangers/Blue Jays

and now Freel. And he’s got a shot at getting to the playoffs with Texas. Weird season.

With Farney along for the ride

does it count as 8?

interesting.

so is he a clubhouse cancer?

There is...another

Dan Miceli, 2003 (Colorado, Cleveland, Yankees, Houston).

Jody Jody Davis - August 28, 2009 reply

Was Micelli DFA'd by all three previous teams, though?

nats up 2-1

woot!

now its tied

And Pujols wins it with a leadoff homer

in the ninth.

Why bother pitching to him?

im not sure...

but atleast the lord and savior of baseball has another HR to his credit

So he's the lord and savior?

I thought it was DeRosa.

yes and no

derosas the second lord and savior and matt hollidays the third

I was wondering where Holiday came in to this.

he always comes into it

The Cardinals'

modern-day holy trinity.

if i had photoshop skills

i would create a photo worthy of their praise!

Oh, I've got some skills there

I’m thinking more along the lines of a modified Last Supper, though…

TWSS

it is

unbelievable.

Colorado loses

we are 6.5 out of the wild card. I was so wrapped up in the fact that we are 9 out of the Cards, that I forgot about this. 36 left. Interesting. Huh. Well, at least that is more interesting to follow than pre-season football.

louslovechild - August 29, 2009 reply

Only 5 back in the loss column in the WC.

Slightly more than a month to go. As silly as this may sound, it’s do-able.

Maybe that’s what this team needs: for people to start ignoring them in favor of other fall sports. Then they sneak into the playoffs on the last days of the season and make a miraculous run through the playoffs to meet the Tigers in the WS.

BUZZ…BUZZ…BUZZ…BUZZ…(bedside alarm going off)

“Time to get up!”

(You never know. Until they are mathematically eliminated, I’m not throwing the towel in completely…)

Zeke - August 29, 2009 reply

Winning is cool, and (taking a sip of my Koolaid) we shall overcome the 9 games!!!!

Or the 6 ½ games for the Wild Card.
Or just play well for the last weeks of the season.

eths - August 29, 2009 reply

Here's to hoping that this is the start of Soriano's long awaited hot streak!

That would be so awesome.

katie casey - August 29, 2009 reply

Regarding the first 100 or so comments in the Thread

about fan behavior. When the beer-dumping incident happened several still photos were circulated on the Net. One in particular had about 100 fans in the photograph. What I immediately noticed, and then really scrutinized, was the apparent age of the ‘fans’ in the photo. I counted 1 fan, a guy who appeared to be maybe 40, who I thought could be beyond their 20’s. It appeared the vast majority were under 25. Further, a pretty good percentage of the folks in the picture had a beer in their hands.
It appears to me this may be more about a bunch of ‘kids’ (I’m 51) who’ve created a ‘Sport’ of headin’ to the Bleachers to drink and scream at ballplayers. Could this be the case, or is this behavior prevalent thruout the Ballpark? Do folks along the baselines scream at Bradley & others non-stop too or is this really more of a Bleacher phenomenon? Following the situation pretty closely since the beer-dumping incident it seems to me this is more about a bunch of young partiers wantin’ to show off & be the center of attention than it is a legitimate critique of Bradley. Thoughts?

Cardsfansince62 - August 29, 2009 reply

Clarification

I’m speaking specifically about the fan behavior at the ballpark, not general opinion of Bradley.

Cardsfansince62 - August 29, 2009 reply

That's part of it, absolutely.

I wish that type of attitude would stop, but as long as the Cubs don’t discourage it by not having enough security and not tossing the people who are doing this, it will continue.

Chris Dobbertean - August 29, 2009 reply

I don't know for sure because I don't usually sit in the bleachers,

but I get that same impression that it’s a lot of young partiers. Of course I’m….um…39….yeah that’s right…..and the fans are looking younger and younger to me and more and more like punks everyday.

katie casey - August 29, 2009 reply

I've sat in the bleachers quite often over the last few years

and I have gone to numerous basketball and football games at major universities. There is a difference between the crowds. Sit in the student section at a Big Ten basketball game, and you’ll hear today’s typical college speech: “I was just goin’ to my f-in class and this guy f-in texts me that he needed the f-in check TODAY or I would be f-in in the s-hole with him.” I don’t hear as much of that in the bleachers. The crowd there is a little older (early- to mid-20s) and drinks more. In the first few innings, it’s a lot of “hey, look at me, throw me a ball” kind of stuff, as well as sexual jesting with or about others in the bleachers. 8-10 beers later, it’s “You f-in suck you piece of s” yelled at either the opposing ballplayer or the home player, if he made a bad play. If I’m there, I’m usually with my sons, and they’re somewhat inured to the verbal diarrhea due to their having been in the university setting with me. But they comment on the decline in humor and increase in volume as the game goes on. I have, at times, turned around and gestured toward my kids, which usually results in the loudmouth’s friends elbowing him to calm it down because “there’s kids here.” The mean comments and out-of-control yelling don’t happen at the college events, because there’s little to no drinking in the stadium.

My takeaway? This is something the Rickets need to address with additional security and instructions to ushers and security. Signs should be posted throughout the bleachers that “Excessive, profane speech will not be tolerated. Enjoy the game and let others enjoy it too.” Publicize it, set a new standard, and people will be able to adjust their behavior.

One other note: a minor tragedy of the bleacher fans’ behavior is that it sometimes drowns out classic taunting. It is fun, and not offensive to anyone, when a whole section starts chanting the opposing fielder’s middle name, or shouting “left, right, left, right” as he walks slowly back to his spot after chasing a foul ball. Knowledgable fans can toss off some great barbs in the moment, attacking the player’s fear of the wall or known proclivity for partying. I hate to lose that in the humdrum volume of the drunken show-off. But such is pro sports today. (I’m 46, by the way.)

cubzfan - August 29, 2009 reply

i totally agree

I think you hit the nail on the head, zf. The “solution” is a combination of action by the Cubs organization and collective reprimand by other fans. Cubs management needs to make it very clear that they will not tolerate racist, homophobic, and other hate speech in their venue, “The Friendly Confines.” Fans can help by collectively speaking out against these jerks and embarrassing them in front of their friends. And security will notice when other fans publicly air their disgust—if you’re not a part of the solution, then you’re a part of the problem. I hope the Ricketts become a part of the solution by very publicly implementing some simple “Rules of Civility” that any bigot can understand, regardless of their personal feelings. Post them where everyone can see them and start ejecting those who can’t conform their conduct. And hopefully those bigots will elect not to return, since they are not the kind of fans we want in Wrigley anyhow.

DCCubsFan - August 29, 2009 reply

I had a great time in the bleachers yesterday, Al!

I will see you in New York next weekend.

Jessica, thank you for the ticket!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY

Here is hoping Demp pitches as good for you today as Wells did for me this year on my birthday.

Now you know that Al is not making it up that I read or look down during the “scary” parts.

Doggie Stalker - August 29, 2009 reply

BCB posters and racism

I only check into BCB from time to time, but the comments in this post are very encouraging. It seems like an initially hostile conversation about racism and heckling has resulted in a general consensus. Even posters I rarely agree with (Worf, for example) are standing up on this issue and displaying disgust for the things shouted by a vocal minority at disliked black players and latinos and even at some of the white players.

It looks like Milton Bradley’s calling attention to this issue has actually provoked an open discussion with potentially beneficial results. Unlike the times before when Hawkins, Jacque, Dusty et al. were disregarded, in the end this is being taken seriously. Hopefully the dirtbags who yell this sort of nonsense (like the rodney king comment or the dead baby stuff) will be promptly castigated by fans in the area and hopefully thrown out by security. Cubs security has bigger fish to fry than someone who says that a player “sucks.”

Security, i don't count on or mess with...

… and i say that having been in their position many times. Nothing is more annoying than a tattle tell. If somebody is doing something obnoxious, and you want to catch them at it and boot them, you can do it yourself, without other fans ratting them out.

That said, i’m a big proponent of telling those obnoxious fans to shove it when i’m out in the bleachers. Generally, the ones doing the talking are showing off for their little group, not considering the 40,000 other people sitting around them. Surprise them with a poor reaction to their shenanigans (and show them up to their friends) and they often reign it in.

I hope other fans will do the same.

And, reply fail.

(dying laughing)

np, Andrew. And I agree, being shown up by other fans usually is a better deterrent. It usually also earns some support for the person telling the obnoxious fans to blow off from the fans who’re more hesitant to be the first to speak up. There are still times, though, when I’ve also been hesitant to provoke a confrontation and regretted it immensely later. Being aware of it now, I think/hope people will take more initiative on this in the future. That’s why I said, more or less, I think Milton Bradley’s comments have been a good thing for us going forward.

You sound like you have more muscles than me

cubzfan - August 29, 2009 reply

Doubt it.

I’m not a big dude. 5 foot 6, 160ish lbs.

People tell me i have a calming effect. Its probably more about that than being big, at least in the bleachers. No fight there is ever going to last more than a few seconds.

I don’t generally roam by myself at Soldier Field though (when i’m working there, as security). Takes longer for help to arrive than it does at Wrigley.

More than me too.

But draw your own conclusions…

6’0" / 168 with an unknown percentage of body fat.

lol.

And a reply fail

by me this time.