Lou Piniella has done plenty of thinking and acting outside the box this year. Putting Sean Marshall in left field for one batter because he wanted to keep him in the game. Shifting Jeff Baker and Alfonso Soriano between 2B and 3B -- after being forced to use Soriano in the infield in the first place -- to try to keep ground balls away from Soriano. And, even yesterday, shaking up the lineup in an attempt to get Aramis Ramirez some rest and a little better outfield defense.
Why, then, is it so difficult for Lou to consider some shifts in his bullpen when circumstances make it necessary? Kevin Gregg had blown a save Saturday night and thrown 36 pitches -- the second-most he had thrown in any one game in 2009 and the most in a single-inning appearance -- so why not try someone else on Sunday afternoon? (Even with the late start, Sunday's game was officially a day game, because it started before 6 pm local time.) Virtually everyone else in the pen had been stretched out during Saturday's ridiculously long victory...
... except Marshall. Why not try Marshall? I realize that only one of the three scheduled hitters in the ninth inning for the Marlins yesterday was lefthanded (Jeremy Hermida), but Marshall can get right-handed hitters out, too. Or call on Jeff Stevens, who the Marlins have never seen.
Instead, Gregg came in and gave up back-to-back homers to Dan Uggla and Cody Ross (for Ross, his second of the game), and the Cubs suffered a devastating 3-2 loss to the Marlins. It's not "devastating" because it puts them in a bad spot in the division -- they're still only half a game behind the Cardinals -- but losses like this one hurt more than most, especially, as Len Kasper said, on getaway day, where the players have to sit on a plane and stew about it.
Gregg has now allowed 10 homers, the most of any NL relief pitcher, in 49.2 innings, after allowing only three in 68 innings all of last year. In his last six outings he's given up three homers, blown two saves, and has an ERA of 15.75, raising his season ERA more than a run, from 3.15 to 4.17.
Still, the calls for Gregg to be removed as closer (or worse, as I saw last night here, to "DFA him!!!1!" are ridiculous. Many closers have outings like this -- and yesterday's was more on the head of his manager than on him; Gregg probably shouldn't have been in the game at all. And who would you suggest replacing him with? Carlos Marmol? Marmol's head doesn't seem on straight, and he's been walking almost a batter an inning. Angel Guzman? Then what do you do for a setup man?
All of this ruined a fine outing by Ryan Dempster, who gave the Marlins only three hits in his six innings of work. After allowing a Cubs run in the third, Ricky Nolasco was lights-out for the rest of his stint, winding up with eight strikeouts. And I'm not even going to blame Aaron Heilman, who allowed Ross' first homer of the day -- the pitch Ross hit was a good pitcher's pitch, low in the strike zone. Ross is one of those under-the-radar guys, like Scott Podsednik or Shane Victorino, who teams think can't make it; he was traded twice for minor leaguers who never made it and wound up as a Marlin via a straight sale from Cincinnati. He strikes out more than you'd like, but plays good defense and hits home runs.
Kudos to Jake Fox for giving the Cubs the lead in the 9th inning with his eighth homer of the year; he is now hitting .308/.347/.607, and while we may never see him behind the plate again with Geovany Soto expected to be back this weekend, at least we know the guy can hit at the major league level. My personal choice would be to send Micah Hoffpauir -- who had another bad day Sunday, dropping his average to .233, a season low -- to Iowa when Geo comes back. (Yes, he has options left.) This would give him a chance to play every day for a few weeks, come back September 1 with his timing back, and he'd still be eligible for postseason play. Fox can back up first base and Sam Fuld can play any of the outfield positions that Hoffpauir can... only better.
The Cubs play the Reds for the next three days, and the Reds are reeling, having lost six in a row and gone 8-21 since July 1. Time to get back in first place and stay there.
0 recs | 319 comments
First!
Is where the Cubs need to be.
cubzfan - August 3, 2009
Very disappointing...
But at least Dempster pitched well and Jake Fox continues to mash. I’m a little nervous about these 4 games in Colorado coming up soon.
CubsBullsBears - August 3, 2009 via mobile
Cubs have always played well in Colorado.
Since 2003: 8-7 in Denver. I’d settle for a split there.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
we need more than a split
2-2 would be just ok in Colorado but 3 of 4 would pick up 2 games on them in the wild card standings. I really think the WC is our best shot at making the playoffs right now,Not that i’m giving up on the division at all but I think St. Louis with the additions they made is gonna be tough to beat. Coloradoand SF should beat each other up when they play, plus they play a tougher division with the Dodgers to deal with.
plenz - August 3, 2009
I think the WC has a good chance to come out of the NL Central.
The Rockies and Giants have to play each other 11 times. The Cubs and Cardinals only play each other 3 times. I think it’s likely the Rockies and Giants come close to splitting those games and that is what gives the Central a good chance to win the wild card.
cowsarecool220 - August 3, 2009
A split would be nice,
But I’d like to take 3 of 4 there.
Colorado has been struggling to some degree lately … the tear they were on seems to have ended.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 3, 2009
Al, dumb question:
How do you go about finding a team’s all-time record in a given ballpark? I’m looking at baseball-reference, but I can’t seem to get to that specific info even though it must be here somewhere.
daver - August 3, 2009
You have to get...
… the head to head records, then just go through it and pick out the road games. There doesn’t seem to be any other way.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Wow, I can't believe they make it so hard.
Seems like that would be an obvious stat to keep. I’m just trying to see whether the Cubs have really been as bad in Miami as it seems. I believe they did sweep a series there in ‘05. Can’t remember much about ‘06 (though we can probably assume the worst). There was, of course, that awful sweep at the end of the ’07 season just before the Cubs clinched. I believe they lost two of three there last year – with the one win being Daryle Ward’s HR off Gregg.
daver - August 3, 2009
Send it to them as a suggestion.
There’s a place on the site to do that. I have found them very responsive.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
I'll do that!
daver - August 3, 2009
they won
two of three last year
darryl ward’s homer on friday
and dempster got the win on the sunday game… I believe he had 10 strike outs
FloridaCubsFan - August 3, 2009
Wow, cool.
I stand corrected. This is why I want to see the exact record – because sometimes our perception of a given stadium is at odds with what actually happens there.
daver - August 3, 2009
Still 3 wins since 2006
not actually good
nji232 - August 3, 2009
Yeah, I still need to compile the overall record.
Unless some industrious BCBer who’s not supposed to be working right now wants to do it for me…?
daver - August 3, 2009
I'm not working and I have a copy of the Cubs 2008 Media Guide at work.
Through 2007, the Cubs were 28-33 at Joe Robbie/Pro Player/Dolphin/Land Shark Stadium.
They’ve gone 3-3 since, so they are 31-36 there all time.
Bill Potter - August 3, 2009
You rule!
Gotta get my hands on one of those media guides.
Anyway, so it’s safe to say that, historically speaking, the Cubs have indeed struggled in that orange-seated hellhouse – though five games under .500 isn’t quite as bad as I’d imagined the record might be. Thanks!
daver - August 3, 2009
Hey, I'm just doing my job
If it wasn’t for the amazing 1998-99 stretch, when the Cubs were 9-3 in the greater Miami area, their record would be far worse. This decade, they are 11-18 at Florida (3-9 in their last 4 trips).
Bill Potter - August 3, 2009
Tough to blame this on Piniella
If Gregg is going to remain the closer, the best thing for him was to get back on the horse. It just didn’t work out.
How about:
- a one-out triple in the fourth, with Theriot not scoring
- first and third with one out in the third and no more runs scoring
- a two-out double in the second, but Koyie Hill is such a weak hitter that not only does he not deliver, but the Marlins go right at him preferring to have Dempster lead off the next inning;
- scoring 2 runs
This one is on the offense
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
agreed
offense needs to capitalize on those chances. Might it be time to try Guzman in the closer role if the situation arises tonight?Yesterday was tough to swallow but the Cubs usually bounce back after tough losses like that.
plenz - August 3, 2009
With Gregg probably tired, yes, I'd give Guzman a shot.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
NOT TONIGHT
He pitched two innings on Sat and one yesterday , he should not pitch tonight.
Doggie Stalker - August 3, 2009
Can't always score 10 runs
Yes, the Cubs blew several chances. But you can’t always win by 6+ runs. Sometimes your offense doesn’t have it and you have to rely on your bullpen. That being said, I fucking hate Aaron Heilman and I’m done with him. He’s owed about $800K for the rest of the year so the Cubs can afford to release him. I don’t even care who replaces him.
mike_thom - August 3, 2009
It's still not on Piniella, IMO
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
yeah lou told the offense to suck!
jesus christos - August 3, 2009
Tough loss
but bad days happen. Hopefully they pull it back together and win the next series.
gaclaudy - August 3, 2009
I didn't realize Gregg pitched Saturday like that...
…when I replied to BLou’s post. Some might want him to “get back on the horse” as quickly as possible after Saturday’s outing, but giving him the day off Sunday given the number of pitches and the times of the two games makes sense, i.e., even if he closes out Saturday’s game on 30+ pitches, why not let another arm pitch on Sunday?
DudeVf11 - August 3, 2009
Maybe, maybe not.
But there were other, more glaring reasons that led to the loss.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
Blame
Lou is to blame.
Heilman is to blame.
Gregg is to blame.
The defense is to blame.
The offense is to blame.
The couching staff is to blame.
Face it the blame game ain’t gonna help and even though I griped about Heilman and Gregg last evening, after calming down, I feel the blame must be spread evenly.
Baseball is a team effort, and sometimes even the best shall suck.
eths - August 3, 2009
amen brother
i agree 100%
kodypuckett23 - August 3, 2009
Jeff Stevens was warming up
I can kinda get putting your closer back out there — get on the horse after you fall off — but it’s like Lou only half-committed to the idea.
Gregg is one of the reasons we’re .5 games out. If we survived the slumps by Lee, Fukudome and (crossing fingers they are in the past tense) Soriano and Bradley, we can survive a slump by Gregg.
Worf - August 3, 2009
Stevens was not warming up.
I saw the graphic that said that — but it was Gregg, not Stevens. Turns out the TV crew had the right idea.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
If we scored some runs
we wouldn’t have needed Gregg in that situation yesterday.
TheCubsGuy - August 3, 2009
Interesting
Comcast knew who should have been brOught into the game, to bad Lou wasn’t watching. What am I talking about? In the top 9, they showed Gregg warming up in the bullpen, only the graphic said Jake Stevens and Stevens stats. Time to get fat on some W’s against the Reds. A win tonight means were tied for first.
TheCubsGuy - August 3, 2009
For a game that has become so "pitch count" oriented,
I cannot believe that Gregg was used yesterday after his 36 pitch ninth on Saturday night.
One day off still allows you to get him back up on the horse in Cincy. But geez, people complain about Dusty burning out pitchers.
May I also ask where Larry R. was in all this? Wouldn’t you think he’d stand up for his guy and say to Lou, “We need to rest him today.” ?
It seems very confusing to me. Teams baby pitchers and overuse them in the same breath. I dunno……
Fortunately, the Reds await. Let’s get in and grab at least 2 of 3 before they awake from their summer slumber…
Zeke - August 3, 2009
Rothschild
glad you brought him up. For as highly thought of as he was when coming here……..has he really made any pitcher better ?
plenz - August 3, 2009
absolutely not
I’ve never understood why he is considered even a mediocre pitching coach.
WanderingWanderer - August 3, 2009
I don't get this at all
Everyone dumps on him when pitchers fail, but he deserves no credit for Wood’s career year last year, Dempster’s career getting back on course, Lilly being the best he’s ever been, etc.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
I heard that Dempster did most if not all of the work on his own to make himself a starter again
Mapmaker - August 3, 2009
He definitely did all the training, yes
But last year was probably his best so far.
The point was, people dump on Rothschild all the time for no real reason. It’s almost like a pitcher could strike out 10 in a row and be great, but the first walk after that is LR’s fault.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
He does fine with the starters
just needs to spend more time in the bullpen.
tdubcub - August 3, 2009
It would be interesting to hear what former Cubs' pitchers say about Rothschild.
If my memory is correct, a guy by the name of Oscar Acosta (may have the name wrong – I think he died last year) was the Cubs’ pitching coach when Prior came up, and he and Kerry Wood were dominating, with some guy named Zambrano starting to blossom. Then, I think he got into an argument with Dusty or the management and got dumped in favor of Rothschild. That always felt like a mistake to me.
Does anyone remember the guy I’m talking about, and the circumstances of his leaving the Cubs?
Cubfansince1957 - August 3, 2009
I think you have it about right.
I do recall Wood singing the praises of Oscar Acosta long after he left the Cubs.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
How do you know Rothschild didn't do that?
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
He may have. I don't know. But if he DID, and Lou ignored it- then it's ALL on Lou...
Zeke - August 3, 2009
Wild card
Dropping a full game to the Fish in the wild card ins’t pleasant either.
SecTaylor - August 3, 2009
I didn't see the game
because it was blocked on the MLB package, so I only saw the highlights. The two pitches Gregg served up for HR’s were telling. The pitch to Uggla was a slow hanger on a silver platter. Major league hitters are supposed to hit those 500 feet and he did.
Hill set up low and away for the next pitch and he missed his spot by three feet. Looked like a fastball riding up and in and somehow Ross got the barrel of the bat on it. I have no idea how – it wasn’t a pitch you would think could be taken out of the park, that’s for sure.
Looking forward to some good baseball in Cincy tonight. GO CUBS!!
DKT - August 3, 2009
Gregg was gassed from Saturday....
…those pitches were literally BP fastballs. I mean you could almost see Ross’s eyes widen as Gregg’s flat, slow pitch with no movement came out of his hand.
Problem is Gregg is never going to admit that he doesn’t have his best stuff before he goes in, so you either have to count on the bullpen coach to recognize that (and if he cant, why is here out there?) or Lou needs to really think outside the box as Al suggests and put in Marshall. Tough situation either way.
Of course all these problems could be solved by scoring a few more runs.
JB 23 - August 3, 2009
but he's the closer.
Part of the stupidity of the “closer” role is that he’s going to be out there in the ninth no matter what, regardless of the quality of his stuff, his usage in previous games, etc…. Bobby Cox has said to heck with the closer this year and I see no reason with Lou cannot do the same.
cubsforever - August 3, 2009
What about Trammel?
I have no clue here and am only guessing, but doesn’t Trammel play a role here with Lou?
I just can’t believe that some of the mismanagement this season all falls on Lou.
The E-Man - August 3, 2009 via mobile
Tram can provide counsel, but he's not the pitching coach.
That’s on LR.
And ultimately, Lou. He’s “the decider”…
Zeke - August 3, 2009
As I said last night
Nothing that happens in Miami should ever be looked at again. 3 wins in 4 years there. Just forget the damn trip ever happened.
nji232 - August 3, 2009
and pray the fish don't sneak into the playoffs...
Zeke - August 3, 2009
Odds are we have a date with LA
Based on how things are going right now, then again my prediction of the NL West having the Wild Card looks less safe compared to a week ago.
nji232 - August 3, 2009
THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE.....
Hope the fish flounder . We have seen them come back in the past . You glad the Cherry fest and film fest are done and gone ???
cubs north - August 3, 2009
Totally agree with you, Al.
Gregg should not have been in there. I made the same comment in that ridiculous FDA Gregg thread, but it’s like reverse deja vu that Gregg gives it up twice to his old team, just like Kerry Wood did when the Indians played the Cubs. I would have sat Gregg after that first game… there’s no way he should have been up there – just on his workload the night before alone.
Also, sending Micah down is the right thing to do for the club and for him. Clearly he’s a better player with regular at-bats – just look at Spring Training… he can get almost a solid month of work, and come back with an idea of what the strike zone is. Clearly Fox has played himself into the bench role, and maybe more. It’ll be VERY interesting to see what the team does in the offseason to try and get Jake some more playing time… very interesting indeed.
By the way, is it just me or is Jake Fox starting to look a LOT like Jim Thome? I noticed this in the game yesterday… very weird.
lswaidz - August 3, 2009
Thome
I can see it. Good call.
truelinkfence - August 3, 2009
4.17 for a closer?
Yikes!
Mapmaker - August 3, 2009
4.17 for a closer?
He also has 21 saves in 26 opportunities.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 3, 2009
Yes and he can thank our awesome defense for some of that.
katie casey - August 3, 2009
and the fact that he's come in with leads bigger than one run
WanderingWanderer - August 3, 2009
So?
cubsforever - August 3, 2009
Other teams have also hit 10 homers off him, tying his career high.
Though you can’t completely blame him for what happened yesterday.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 3, 2009
Yes, it's a career high
but Gregg has also always pitched in home parks that are awfully difficult to hit HRs in. I do not get why Jim Hendry traded for Kevin Gregg who doesn’t fit his manager or ballpark, when we could have signed Brandon Lyon, a very similar pitcher, who fits better.
DGU - August 3, 2009
So...
… explain the three homers in two days in his former home park.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Do the Marlins know something about Gregg?
After all, after the time he spent in Florida….I couldn’t see last night’s game, but wasn’t surprised about his overall poor showing against his former team.
Just a wild thought with absolutly nothing to back it up — and of course, that’s never stopped the majority of posters here — do you think Gregg’s tipping his pitches in some way that the Marlins always knew?
I have no proof, and no way to know. Just thought I’d throw it out there.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - August 3, 2009
Gregg
This makes a lot of sense. It sure looked like they were on to him. BB said last week that Cub signs were easy to pick up at times.
If we only had Hubbs - August 3, 2009
Explanation
I know no one sees any humor in what happened but I saw some humor in the Heckler piece today. www.theheckler.com/news/templates/default.aspx?a=3026&template=print-article.htm
wccubfan - August 3, 2009
That was pretty funny
madcow256 - August 3, 2009
Well, you can still give up HRs there.
It’s just harder to hit HRs there.
DGU - August 3, 2009
That truly is
Glendon Rusch bad.
The E-Man - August 3, 2009 via mobile
Rewind back to my comment from July 17th
When I said. “Kevin Gregg is junk. I’m officially sick of him.”
SackMan - August 3, 2009
............
carmen_fanzone - August 3, 2009
Rachel gives SWL a run for his money in Photoshop ability...
lswaidz - August 3, 2009
Demoralizing
bigz38fan - August 3, 2009
Losing sucks.
Best way to get over it is to win tonight. I just hope I’m not blacked out on FSN for the game.
sue369 - August 3, 2009
You should get the game on ESPN.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Ah thanks.
Didn’t realize it was on ESPN.
sue369 - August 3, 2009
I'm just glad
to be the hell out of Florida. My distaste for that “stadium” knows no bounds.
drewishdrewid - August 3, 2009
I have to say I'm not a big fan of their football team either
nji232 - August 3, 2009
Other than the warm winters, I can't think of anything I like about the entire state
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
Mickey Mouse would like a word with you
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
He's from Anaheim
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
But spends most of his time in Orlando.
mykalmorgan - August 3, 2009
So does everyone's grandma...
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
Touche
ºOº
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
+1
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - August 3, 2009
+1
and I live in that damn state….lol.
FLCubsGirl - August 3, 2009
agreed.....I cant stand the sight of that dump on my TV.
JB 23 - August 3, 2009
Fickle fans.....he had a bad start of the year, and two bad games this weekend, but look at these....
Gregg’s stats from May 16th-July 30th
32 appearances
32 innings pitched
07 earned runs
1.96 ERA
11 walks
30 K’s
3 wins, 0 losses
15 out of 17 in save opportunities
Some people on this site are acting like he’s been horrible in EVERY SINGLE GAME HE’S PITCHED. That’s a pretty good 10 week stretch, folks.
carmen_fanzone - August 3, 2009
Yes. Great numbers. However,
I realize the “why” of the fickleness: Gregg looks to hover slightly below the League average when you look at his career numbers and when you look at his stuff. I’m not saying I subscribe to the idea and support it like I support the amicable firing of Aaron Heilman; all I’m saying is that I understand why and how he wouldn’t inspire confidence.
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
I think a lot of the angst about Gregg's performance last weekend
goes back to how the 2004 season ended.
It also doesn’t help that Gregg struggled last season right about this time of year. Last year, he was battling a knee injury.
Hopefully, he just had a bad couple of days and there’s no injury to worry about.
cowsarecool220 - August 3, 2009
I'm not following
Why would we be worried about Gregg because of how 2004 ended?
WanderingWanderer - August 3, 2009
I'm talking about Latroy Hawkins meltdown
as closer at the end of the 2004 season.
cowsarecool220 - August 3, 2009
How does the ending of 2004 compare with now?
I don’t follow.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 3, 2009
Marlins beating the Cubs
but that was ’03.
propheteer - August 3, 2009
I'm talking about the closer metdown in 2004
that cost the Cubs the lead in the wildcard.
cowsarecool220 - August 3, 2009
Gregg is a better closer than Hawkins.
The situations are not comparable.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
I'm just saying last weekend brought back some bad memories.
I was just speculating the 2004 meltdown has made some people panic a bit after Gregg’s last 2 meltdowns.
cowsarecool220 - August 3, 2009
Well...
…. not me. Like I said, the situations aren’t comparable. In one (this year) you have a good closer who had two bad games.
In 2004, you had a pitcher NOT suited to closing thrown into a situation he was not qualified for. The results were predictable.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Comparable or not,
it brought those bad memories back for me.
katie casey - August 3, 2009
The other reason it's not comparable...
… is that there are two months left in the season. In 2004, there was NO time left to recover.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Plus, in 2004, those losses added to the "sinking ship" mentality.
If anyone (well, I can think of a few) who truly feels like this Cubs ship is sinking after these 2 losses, I’d be surprised.
Bill Potter - August 3, 2009
BLou would like a word Trey
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
BLou's ship is always sinking
propheteer - August 3, 2009
Yeah, that was one of my "few"
But honestly, it seems like the ship is always taking on water with him, unfortunately.
Bill Potter - August 3, 2009
I didn't say it made sense or was in any way logical.
It just brought those memories back (and even before yesterday for me).
katie casey - August 3, 2009
Big difference though
Hawkin’s meltdown occured in the last week of the season, while Gregg’s in early August. Let’s see how he does when it counts the most.
propheteer - August 3, 2009
You know what...
these games have felt so intense to me that it almost feels like the end of the season. Just look at how some people are following the Cards games pitch by pitch here. You’d think it was the last two weeks of Sept. rather than the first two weeks of Aug.
katie casey - August 3, 2009
The tension is unbelievable
I agree on this. That’s what happens when every fan on here, negative or positive, wants to see a title so badly.
propheteer - August 3, 2009
they've felt like this
since about May 15th.
drewishdrewid - August 3, 2009
May 15th, 1910...
Zeke - August 3, 2009
True, but how many other closers this season
blew two consecutive opportunities like Gregg did this weekend? I think that is what makes Sundays loss feel even worse than usual and the stats you quote meaningless, at least for today, i.e., “the day after”. Us fickle fans are really pissed off he blew two saves like he did because no one was expecting it. Those stats you quote do not lead anyone to believe that Gregg had it in him to pitch as poorly as he did, which increases the pain of losing even more. 2 HRs on 2 consecutive pitches to lose the game?
Damn!
JFCubFan - August 3, 2009
Well, Brad Lidge and Bobby Jenks to name 2....
I’m sure there are others. So you’re saying 2 blown consecutive saves wipes out an entire 10 week stretch where he was nails? That just backs up my “fickle fan” comment.
carmen_fanzone - August 3, 2009
then Gregg better get all his blown saves out of the way now, before the stretch drive next month
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
I'm saying that BECAUSE of his season stats
you don’t expect Gregg to blow two in a row, and when he does it’s more painful then if he had blown them weeks apart. Think in terms of a plane crash; more people die in car accidents than die in planes, but when a plane goes down and kills a couple hundred people it hits us harder than the tens of thousands of auto fatalities that occur every year – despite the stats that clearly tell us that air travel is magnitudes of order safer than driving a car.
So as it was yesterday with Gregg, crashing and burning in that lovely Landshark Stadium and taking us fickle fans down with him.
JFCubFan - August 3, 2009
Gregg is on pace for a career high in games
This after 70+ games the past two years. He really should not have pitched yesterday. In addition to the loss, now he is hopefully unavailable today but no telling with Piniella.
rlpete - August 3, 2009
Bring back Borowski!!!!!!!!!!
lexmarklover - August 3, 2009
Safe to say
that Stevens will close tonight if needed?
propheteer - August 3, 2009
Idunno
What about Guzmán, Mármol or even Marshall?
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
I'd keep Marmol in the setup role
and Marshall for lefty match-ups, or long relief duty. It can definitely work out that way though.
propheteer - August 3, 2009
I know you're all going to think I'm crazy, but here goes....
I’d like to see Harden as closer.
katie casey - August 3, 2009
Maybe...
After another arm injury, like Kerry Wood.
tripdenten - August 3, 2009
I think if Gorzelanny pitches well before Lilly gets back
And Gregg continues to struggle, that the thought will be discussed.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
I like the idea
but obviously Rich would have to buy into it.
propheteer - August 3, 2009
And I doubt it happens this year
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
Next year
after Hendry lets Gregg walk.
propheteer - August 3, 2009
But Harden's contract also expires
and that issue will be rather interesting come November.
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
Could be a lot of changes
if they don’t play in October.
propheteer - August 3, 2009
He's much more valuable as a starter
even when he has bad games. Kind of like the Joba Chamberlain debate in NYC. An above average starter is worth much more than an above average reliever. Also, Harden gives up a lot of home runs. Gregg’s HR numbers are significantly above his career numbers, which suggests fluke. Get back to me if Harden has more arm injuries. As of now, though, much better as a starter (and he wouldn’t buy into it unless he gets more injured).
mykalmorgan - August 3, 2009
This has been discussed at length here and on a few other blogs.
It’s an understandable suggestion, but it doesn’t really pan out. As mykalmorgan notes, Harden remains far too valuable as a starter to limit to a closer’s role. (And, uh, Harden’s been giving up his fair share of home runs this season as well.) Plus, I believe there are concerns about Harden’s capacity to warm up quickly and pitch in back-to-back(-to-back) games.
daver - August 3, 2009
I'm not quite ready to see it happen...yet.
But I do think that it is something he’d be well suited for.
katie casey - August 3, 2009
Yeah, there are some things about Rich that do scream closer.
Two-pitch arsenal, massive K numbers. Maybe it’ll happen some day.
daver - August 3, 2009
Makes a lot of sense.
But the A’s tried it. His arm doesn’t bounce back fast enough. He really needs the full four days’ rest to be effective.
cubsforever - August 3, 2009
Did not know that.
Just curious how long they tried him in the role. Did they give him awhile or did they have to give up right away fearing injury?
katie casey - August 3, 2009
Keep in mind
that Harden himself said the A’s training staff wasn’t nearly as good as the Cubs. So maybe with the better treatment he’s getting now, Harden could thrive as the Cubs’ closer.
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
+1
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
Let's just hope we don't need a closer.
I think Aaron Harang could use a shellacking. In fact, I’d like to see Randy Wells hit a home run off of him. It’d only be fair, really.
mykalmorgan - August 3, 2009
A three-run homer, to be fair.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Although I'd trade a three-run homer for the win.
As I’m sure Harang would have.
mykalmorgan - August 3, 2009
Harang has never been the same since his 4-inning relief appearance in 2008
Since then, he is 9-23 in 40 games with an ERA of 5.11. He’s allowed 291 hits in 239.2 innings, walking 65, striking out 196.
While I doubt that outing is the only reason for Harang’s struggles over that time frame, he’s become far more hittable. Hopefully the Cubs keep that up tonight.
Bill Potter - August 3, 2009
Hmm...
It seems all of the innings may be catching up to Harang, as they are to Bronson Arroyo. And they pitched most of those innings BEFORE Dusty Baker got there (918 1/3 combined in 2006 & 2007)!
mykalmorgan - August 3, 2009
Well, Dusty made the decision to let Harang throw that day in San Diego
If was Harang’s bullpen day, anyways, but his numbers since that day have been miserable.
Bill Potter - August 3, 2009
Oh, I wasn't meaning to disagree with your point
I know that Dusty is a terrible manager of pitchers and I’m sure he hasn’t helped Harang (or Arroyo); I was just trying to offer more evidence for their declines.
mykalmorgan - August 3, 2009
Gotcha.
They’ve pitched a ton of innings, for sure, both Pre-Dusty and during the “Dusty Era.” Some of their decline is probably due to age and the park they play in, too.
Plus, Arroyo has never shied away from the nightlife, and I think that eventually catches up to you, too.
Bill Potter - August 3, 2009
Hoffpauir
Al it is true that Hoff has struggled, but how come you never seem to be as critical of Mike Fontenot who is batting .230 and has little-to-no range at second base. I agree that Sam Fuld deserves more PT over Hoff, but Andres Blanco deserves some PT over Fontenot.
tripdenten - August 3, 2009
You might be right.
Unfortunately, Hoffpauir is failing in critical situations. His job is — generally — to bat once a game and produce. Hoffpauir is hitting .194/.237/.333 as a pinch-hitter. That’s no improvement over Daryle Ward’s performance last year.
Sam Fuld could do a better job.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
I agree
Hoff does need to go down to Iowa so he can get some consistent AB’s. But while he is up here, he should not start, Uncle Milty needs to be playing almost every day in RF. Fuld can back up all 3 OF spots, as well. However, I just do not see Lou sending down his only legit left-handed power bat off the bench at this point in the season, especially since nither Cincinnati or Colorado have many lefties on their pitching staffs. Hoff’s numbers as a pinch hitter are terrible though.
tripdenten - August 3, 2009
Fontenot is obviously having a bad year offensively.
But his range at second base is just fine, thanks.
daver - August 3, 2009
His offense is poor.
And you don’t need much range @ 2B, anyway. Think Baker’s numbers might improve with more ABs? And will Miles just rot @ Iowa?
lostinthevines - August 3, 2009 via mobile
I definitely see some upside in Baker.
And I’m not sure what will become of Miles. Maybe he’ll get hurt in Iowa and go on the DL again until September.
daver - August 3, 2009
I hope you're right re: Baker
I don’t see it, but I’d be thrilled to be wrong.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
Well, his offensive numbers look pretty dismal at the moment.
But he’s had only 40 PAs with the Cubs, and he’s already hit a home run and four doubles – so we’re seeing a little bit of pop. Then again, maybe I just want to see anyone platooning with Fontenot who’s not named Aaron Miles.
daver - August 3, 2009
His career stats don't do much for me, either, though.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
He still hasn't gotten a ton of PAs in any one season.
And the one season he did get 300+, he hit 12 HR and flirted with an .800 OPS. That gives me hope.
daver - August 3, 2009
Baker's career triple slash numbers vs. LHP...
.276/.339/.557 with 14 HR in 221 career AB… give me hope that he can be an effective platoon player.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Well, I hope you're both right
I’d still rather have an every day player at each position, regardless, but I’d settle for a decent platoon.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
The question is...
…would you rather have a “name” everyday second baseman who gives the team, say, a low .800 OPS (think Orlando Hudson) or a platoon arrangement in which each member of said platoon gives the team an upper .800 OPS or, dare I say, even .900+ OPS the way Fontenot did last season?
I’m not saying this is what you were suggesting, but it seems like this is the way many Cubs fans think. (And, yeah, I know the team’s current platoon has a long, long way to go to reach that level of productivity.)
daver - August 3, 2009
Welk, certainly your second choice is better
What I don’t like about platoons is how easy it can be for other teams to exploit them, if they have sufficient bullpen depth.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
Welk?
Wonderful, a-wonderful….
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
Hoffpauir
is a backup player who needs to come through in the clutch. Fonty makes most of his plays.
drewishdrewid - August 3, 2009
Kevin Gregg is what he is.
This is the same for me as signing Milton Bradley in the off season. Both Bradley and Gregg have a lot of warts. Gregg is doing for the Cubs what he did for the Marlins last year. In my case I looked at the offseason moves and held my nose. Both players have done just about what I thought they would do. I know there is a strong anti Steve Stone sentiment on this board at times. But, this is pretty much what he predicted of the two guys.
Gregg is supposed to be the closer. He needs to close games out 1-2-3. That is all. If he can’t do it, find someone else. There is still time Mr. Hendry to salvage your craptastic offseason and make a waiver deal for another arm for the pen.
As for the roster, I’d rather have Hoff get some at bats. Fontenot’s range hurts at 2b. Let Blanco get some time. His defense is excellent, and he is the only true back up ss. Lef Hoff get some more ab’s. He’ll come around.
Nibbles - August 3, 2009
He won't get consistent AB's with the big league club.
That’s why he should go down to Iowa for a bit. Fontenot at least plays second base and has more of a track record of success in the majors.
cubsforever - August 3, 2009
Hoff needs ABs. In Iowa.
Fox needs more ABs IMO. Hoff needs AAA ABs.
Ron Trauma - August 3, 2009
Whoops. I posted this in Saturday's recap.
I felt as if Heilman’s solo homer really hurt.
It blew a darn good game from Dempster.
And to answer the question about "Why wasn’t Marshall used?" I think we already know the answer to that…Lou finds his "guy", like Marmol last year or Soriano always, and never changes his mind. He holds onto these guys throughout the entire season, riding them, for good and bad. I commend this action on one hand because it provides stability, consistency, and loyalty to players, but on the other hand, Marmol was overused at times last year, and clearly Gregg was gassed (?), overworked, or simply didn’t have his best stuff last night.
But still, he blew two saves for the Cubbies @ his home park, which I find odd.
Dan
dtpollitt - August 3, 2009
Dusty
I agree with this critique, and it does remind me of Dusty, the way Lou finds his players and rides them, whatever happens.
danimal15 - August 3, 2009
Most managers do that with closers. The Dusty link is
pretty thin here. It’s funny how whenever we find fault with a manager, we want to link it to Dusty. It really is getting pretty tiresome.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 3, 2009
my apologies in advance
but any guy that says “Walks clog the bases” deserves to be ridiculed the rest of his life. And also for frying Mark Prior’s shoulder.
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
+1
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
That's fine. You can ridicule him all you want for that stupid ass remark. But when he
manages like 90% percent of the other managers in the game, it’s kind of disengenuous to drag him out for this.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 3, 2009
Fair enough.
For the record, my comments after yesterday’s game were directed towards ALL managers who misuse their bullpen and generally manage with one eye over their shoulder – not just Lou and certainly not just Dusty.
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
Believe me, I agree with that assessment. Lou is a guilty as anyone else in
overusing his main guys in the bullpen. When he brings in Gregg with a 5 or 6 run lead I cringe. What are those guys down there for, to fill out a uniform?
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 3, 2009
Plus, Prior's mechanics did him in, not Dusty
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
It's so much more convienient to blame Dusty. It kind of takes
away some of the sting of that whole fiasco.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 3, 2009
I know. I'm no Dusty apologist, but it gets old.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
Here I have to agree to disagree
I didn’t care for Dusty keeping Prior in the Atlanta game after tripping and landing on his shoulder, nor for the 110+ pitch effort in Game 2 in the 2003 NLCS. To me that spoke to the recklessness of managing Prior’s immense talents, even if his mechanics were bad to begin with and even if a pennant was on the line.
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
Dusty ran Prior into the ground that season
All but 4 starts with pitch counts over 100, many in the 120s and 130s.
nji232 - August 3, 2009
Prior
I’m no Dusty apologist, either, But I do remember how crummy the bullpen was in 2003, and my guess is that if Prior and Wood hadn’t made the extra effort, pitching deep into so many games, the Cubs would not have made the postseason. And when all is said and done, winning is what counts.
danimal15 - August 3, 2009
See my earlier post re Marlins/Gregg.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - August 3, 2009
Standings finally starting to break up
Glad to see this becoming a two horse race. the best thing that has happened with this streak IMHO. Cards will be dealt with. Old news? Brewers, Hart out for surgery…
truelinkfence - August 3, 2009
Hart is out for real? Link?
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
Sorry
Need to look up how to link articles. I’m green here. See it on the Brewers Yahoo page.
truelinkfence - August 3, 2009
Something went around Twitter on this.
Here’s one link – Rotoworld.
daver - August 3, 2009
Thanks Daver
It’s the appendix. He should be back within 15 days, if they DL’d him. Otherwise, he could be day-to-day and come back by next Wednesday or so.
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
Yep
Thanks
truelinkfence - August 3, 2009
Good thing they got Corey Patterson on the scrap heap, then...
snicker
carmen_fanzone - August 3, 2009
Cubs are on ESPN tonight! 6 pm!
dtpollitt - August 3, 2009
Set your volume controls for mute!
daver - August 3, 2009
It's not Joe Morgan!
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 3, 2009
Meh, set 'em on mute anyway.
daver - August 3, 2009
Isn't it Oral tonight?
He’s pretty good.
cubsforever - August 3, 2009
TWSS
BleedsbluinMI - August 3, 2009
This is interesting
Not sure if this is actually true. It’s over and done with … i just thought it was funny. LINK
lexmarklover - August 3, 2009
Yeah, I find the Roberts one hard to believe.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
yeah same here
lexmarklover - August 3, 2009
Thirded.
daver - August 3, 2009
PEAVY!
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
Halladay!
Blue W - August 3, 2009
I did hear the Rajai Davis rumor, but didn't think it worth posting.
Davis will likely clear waivers, so if the Cubs want him, they could probably have him.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Hmmm, may not be a bad idea.
daver - August 3, 2009
In other NL Central news:
daver - August 3, 2009
That stinks for them.
Didn’t he just recently come back from an injury?
Blue W - August 3, 2009
I don't think he's come back anytime recently.
Seems like he’s been out most of the season. I was watching some footage of him the other night, and his mechanics did look really funky. He seemed to twist his pitching elbow in a very odd way just before delivering the ball.
daver - August 3, 2009
DUSTY STRIKES AGAIN
nji232 - August 3, 2009
That's a real valid comment to make. Did you check his workload before he got to the
the majors? Most elbow injuries are from abuse over a long period of time. But I guess it’s so much more fun to blame Dusty. After all, he’s the reason for the economy, unemployment and the price of gasoline.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 3, 2009
HE IS?!?!
That dirty so & so, I had no idea!
Blue W - August 3, 2009
If the sh#t fits, wear it
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
Now I don't blame Dusty completely for what is happening to the Reds BUT
Its hard to ignore the fact that since he came over Aaron Harang has gone from great to awful and been injured and Volquez has gotten TJ.
Just like Russ Ortiz in SF, Mark Prior here. There is a pattern that follows him around. To be fair though he isn’t the only one, Joe Girardi left quite the mess in Florida.
nji232 - August 3, 2009
Those facts can't be disputed, but a little research might be good on this one. Volquez has been
in the league for what, two years. I suspect a little damage was done before he got here.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 3, 2009
Your point on Volquez is understood
He is clearly a victim of an IP jump. His previous career high in innings on the ML level was 34. He then jumped to 196 last season. His minor league high was 144.
That isn’t Dusty’s fault. Looking at Volquez’s pitch counts from last season and this season they aren’t really that bad either, though he was top 12 in pitches for all of baseball last season.
There is a good chance that Volquez was an injury prone guy who was going to break down anyway, but the fact that Dusty keeps popping up around all these pitching injuries is hard to ignore, plus its fun to blame Dusty.
nji232 - August 3, 2009
I don't know where the truth lies re: Dusty...
…but, as mentioned above, Volquez has some really funky mechanics. I’d guess that the increase in IP coupled with those mechanics led to this, and it could’ve very well happened under any manager. If I’m not mistaken, the Reds were essentially looking at Volquez as their No. 1 – so he was going to end up pitching a lot of innings one way or the other.
daver - August 3, 2009
Dusty is only responsible for the price of gasoline when it goes UP!
(nice to see Darren writing posts here)
LAcarl519 - August 3, 2009
Why doesn't Lou ever let a guy throw a second inning?
The way things went down the day previous, why can’ t Lou ever just throw a guy who is cruising, Guzman, for a second inning. It seemed he was in a little groove, why not throw him out there after your closer was used up from the day before, see if he could lock it down, and them not use him the next day?
MoNeYmiKE - August 3, 2009
Um maybe because Guzman had thrown two innings on Saturday
though in general you are right.
Doggie Stalker - August 3, 2009
Needed to pinch hit for Guzman, too
in the top of the ninth, I believe.
vonde6 - August 3, 2009
Yep, he was up 2nd in the inning.
Though I could see the argument for letting him hit after Fox put the Cubs ahead immediately before that.
Bill Potter - August 3, 2009
Lou
Al,
I agree with your sentiment about Lou’s handling of the pen. But expecting Lou to have fresh ideas about how to use his relievers is a waste of time. When it comes to the pen, he’s a push-button manager, like so many other managers today. If it’s the 9th, must be time for me to dial up my “closer,” whether or not he’s going to be effective. Because if I don’t, and someone else fails, I’ll be pulled apart after the game by the media for not using him.
danimal15 - August 3, 2009
I agree with most of this
but I do not think he gives a rat’s ass about being pulled apart by the media. He does it because he has always done it that way.
Doggie Stalker - August 3, 2009
Good point.
danimal15 - August 3, 2009
This is what happens...
…when major league managers robotically manage according to the modern “book”, which mandates that :
(1) One must robotically employ the one pitcher designated as your “closer” for 9th inning in any save situation; and
(2) No relievers may, except in the rarest of circumstances, pitch more than one inning.
I have long maintained that it would save wear on the bullpen if relievers were used less frequently, but for longer stints. I think 3 appearances a week for 2 innings is less stressful one a relief pitcher than 5 one inning appearances in a week.
The “one inning per appearance” rule also leads to the problems with roster flexibility that carrying 12 (or in some cases, 13) pitchers entails.
perseman - August 3, 2009
+1
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
I agree with danimal....
that fear of media criticism is what make managers manage by rote. For cryin out loud, can’t any of these managers break away from the herd mentality and do something a little differently than everyone else? Coaches in other sports, particularly football, like to be innovators rather than lemmings. MLB Managers should not be afraid to break from the herd once in a while.
perseman - August 3, 2009
Agreed
This is what I refer to as “C.Y.A. managing”. The fear of being second guessed by the media and bloggers, along with the general tendency of players and managers to be derivative and conformist, drives this mentality.
Say what you will about the Bruce Kimm era, but I applauded his (in)famous “Roles are for breakfast” comment. The way you manage a pen is much like how Perseman suggests – use your relievers on fewer days but for longer stints. And to hell with the righty-lefty Match Game crap; try MANAGING your bullpen based on recent appearances and numbers like WHIP and BAA.
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
+1
for calling it the Bruce Kimm “era.”
mykalmorgan - August 3, 2009
Per above
I can’t imagine Lou gives a damn about being 2nd guessed in the media.
Doggie Stalker - August 3, 2009
Agreed
Unfortunately, he doesn’t seem to give a damn to rethinking age-old bullpen management strategies either.
madcow256 - August 3, 2009
I think he does
I’ll never forget his “Of course I thought about it, you think I’m stupid?!?” retort last year in Pittsburgh after the media asked if Lou considered using Reed Johnson as a late inning defensive replacement in left field. There wasn’t enough onion dip to cover the chip that was on his shoulder.
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
That was in Chicago against the Brewers, actually
And I think he does that to protect the players
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
I stand corrected
and maybe he does that to protect the players. But I still think Lou is sensitive to second-guessing by the scribes.
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
I think it's 1/2way
He doesn’t like it, but I don’t think it affects his decision making.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
Al, why do you say Micah would be eligible for playoffs if he comes back Sept 1? (assuming he gets sent down at some point)
I thought the Sept callups were ineligible for post-season (barring injury substitutions). In other words, you go with what you have on August 31.
Is it because he’s already spent time in the majors this year? There has to be something more to it than that – that seems too easy to manipulate throughout the season.
ballhawk - August 3, 2009
There are lots of ways of manipulating it with injured players
I forget exactly how it is done but there are ways to get guys who were not on the 25 man roster on Sept. 1 in the playoffs. I think it goes
like this on Aug 30 the Cubs have say 13 pitchers including Atkins & Stevens on the roster but somehow both get "injured’ in Sept.
Hoff or someone else not on the 25 man roster on Aug 30 can replace them.
Doggie Stalker - August 3, 2009
I realize that - hence my "barring injury substitutions" reference
But Al made no mention of injuries or other roster manipulations. It was a pretty straightforward, de facto reference. Thus my query…
ballhawk - August 3, 2009
sorry read to fast but that is how it is done
Amazing how a player you never really wanted on your post season roster in the first place gets injured.
Doggie Stalker - August 3, 2009
well let me make it a little clearer then...
Is there any other way besides injury substitutions that a Sept 1 call-up could be eligible for playoffs?
ballhawk - August 3, 2009
Here's the scoop.
The eligible spots on a postseason roster consist of the 25-man roster on Aug. 31 plus anyone who’s on the DL that day. So say the Cubs have three players on the DL on 8/31. They have 28 spots to work with and can “activate” any of those DL players, then replace him with anyone else on the 40-man roster… which includes Hoffpauir.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
See - Chad Fox does have some value to this team!!! ;-)
Thanks for the explanation.
ballhawk - August 3, 2009
EXACTLY !
Doggie Stalker - August 3, 2009
And that is probably why Chad Fox has not been moved to the 60-day DL.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Chad Fox has not been moved to the 60 day DL
because the Cubs 40 man roster has open spots.
Players can only be moved to the 60 day DL if the 40 man roster is full. That’s the reason the 60 day DL exists, so a team can replace injured players.
cowsarecool220 - August 3, 2009
Yes, yes, I know that.
However, it also makes sense to keep Fox on the 15-day DL for postseason flexibility.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Lou's dilemma - "Get back on the horse again" vs "closer fatigue"
Arguments have been most eloquently made for both sides of this dilemma – especially in the game threads… ;-)
Here’s one way Lou could have nipped it in the bud and made it a non-issue. In his pre-game comments, he could have said “Look, we’re gonna give Kevin the night off tonight. He threw, what – 30 some pitches last night? It’s hot, it’s humid, we need him to be strong for Cincinnati. We’ve got plenty of other good arms in the bullpen we can use tonight. Ok? Ok.”
ballhawk - August 3, 2009
Works for me
Doggie Stalker - August 3, 2009
+1 for the uncanny imitation of Lou
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
however
I’m not sure when it was decided that a professional baseball player can’t pitch the next day if he throws 30 pitches. I mean, there is a limit somewhere – I wouldn’t trot him out there every single day – but two appearances in two days doesn’t seem too much to ask. This is a professional athlete, not a Little Leaguer.
danimal15 - August 3, 2009
My sons Pony League allows kids to throw back to back days...
as long as they do not exceed more than 4 innings or 40 pitches on the first day, and my son has thrown on back to back days multiple times. But he throws strikes most of the time and pitches to contact.
santoswoodenlegs - August 3, 2009
If baseball's unwritten rules were applied to other sports
Tiger Woods, who swung his clubs 72 times yesterday, will not be available today for the second day of the U.S. Open, as he needs time to recover from yesterday’s effort..
danimal15 - August 3, 2009
uh…
drewishdrewid - August 3, 2009
I'm gonna turn this green because it made my head hurt.
Then I laughed.
dtpollitt - August 3, 2009
What does it mean
That you turned my post green? (I’m a poet and I don’t know it!)
danimal15 - August 3, 2009
It has at least 3 recommendations.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
If golf's unwritten rules were applied to baseball...
Albert Pujols stopped his bat in mid-swing and had a Cardinals’ fan ejected from the park when he heard the click of a shutter as the fan took a picture during an at bat against Ryan Dempster.
Ross - August 3, 2009
Well they are using pinch counts in a lot of little league
Which really pissed off a certain future HOF who does not believe in them. I believe he said
“Pinch count ? They got F(&^%$$ING pitch counts on my son and he is 11 years old !!!”
Doggie Stalker - August 3, 2009
I don't have a problem with the "pitch count" thing most of the time...
if anything, it forces the coaches to use ALL the kids that want to pitch at some point.
santoswoodenlegs - August 3, 2009
36
pitches.
drewishdrewid - August 3, 2009
I knew that but remember, I was channeling Lou there. I doubt he keeps pitch counts in the forefront of his mind
ballhawk - August 3, 2009
Actually, it was 38 per baseball-reference.
daver - August 3, 2009
My bad.
I stared it.
Doggie Stalker - August 3, 2009
Yeah, kudos on your mastery of the Piniella dialect.
daver - August 3, 2009
Perhaps this will cheer us up
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
Who says horizontal stripes aren't flattering...
ballhawk - August 3, 2009
I think those are slits...at least that's what I'm hoping...
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
Slits...I thought you said.......
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 3, 2009
ISWYDT
santoswoodenlegs - August 3, 2009
I jumped off my chair. My heart stopped for a fraction of a second.
Very, VERY well done sir.
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
Good thing I ain't at work
or else I might not be at work!
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
TURN YOUR MONITOR SIDEWAYS! QUICKLY!
Before your boss sees this photo!
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Oh....sorry....I did forget to rotate that pic huh. My bad.
santoswoodenlegs - August 3, 2009
you're incorrigible!
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
eye get it!
LAcarl519 - August 3, 2009
Twasn't fooled for an instant.
daver - August 3, 2009
That gives new meaning to the phrase...
Sharp stick in the eye.
KaliCub - August 3, 2009
I wonder how long she spent on her hair for that pic.
santoswoodenlegs - August 3, 2009
I thought there was an Internetz-wide ban on treating her as an "object."
chilango2 - August 3, 2009
didn't get the memo ;-)
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
I propose a moritorium on the initials "DFA"
Anybody second it?
Ross - August 3, 2009
I'll sign it if we can also declare a moratorium on the use of "Sigh"
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
Seconded unconditionally
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
Thirded.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
How about "Meh"?
Mapmaker - August 3, 2009
can I get a HY!
drewishdrewid - August 3, 2009
Stupid question, maybe
What does DFA actually mean here… I’ve seen various definitions in the past.
eths - August 3, 2009
Designated for Assignment, IIRC
GoCubbies34 - August 3, 2009
Photo Caption Correction:
“A picture is worth 1000 words.” This one,
maybe moreis only worth one..santoswoodenlegs - August 3, 2009
another day, another dollar...
or in the case of alfonso, another 100,000 dollars.
seesdifferent - August 3, 2009
It's okay, you can't see him.
N Oakley - August 3, 2009
If you can't see him, then you don't have to pay him, right?
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 3, 2009
Sorry, doesn't work that way.....
see: Local, State, Federal Governments.
santoswoodenlegs - August 3, 2009
It's always politics, man!
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 3, 2009
Why don't we focus on Derrek Lee's salary instead?
daver - August 3, 2009
Why focus on Lee's $13 mil/year?
dtc0405 - August 3, 2009
You mean the guy who's leading the team in SLG, OPS, HR's, RBI's and is our best defensive player?
santoswoodenlegs - August 3, 2009
Precisely.
daver - August 3, 2009
why the hell
does everyone bash on people when they have a bad game or 2 in a row…sigh typical Cubs fans
HardForharden - August 3, 2009
Outlook
I agree with most of this and the Hoffpauir idea, sending him down to get his swing back and play everyday so we can have him in September is really a great thought. One thing I do disagree with is that Lou blew the game. Not to sound like Lovie Smith but Kevin Gregg is a closer and if their is a save situation he will be in, he is our guy. Now I have no problem with us removing him as closer and replacing him with a new guy. But we can’t switch it up every outing on who is going to close. We need structure, every playoff team has a set closer and he fills out that role every time the team is in that situation. One thing that does boggle my mind is why does Lou not feel like a reliever can go two innings every once and a while???
1908isjustayear - August 3, 2009
Just for perspective...
the complaints since yesterday seem to center on the idea that Gregg threw 36 pitches late Saturday night on a very hot & humid night, so why throw him again on Sunday in what was a high risk of failure situation? I don’t think most people were concerned about Gregg’s role overall (some do love to bash Gregg every chance they get, but it appears to me that was not the case).
the suggestion was Marshall first, or worst case, Stevens, two guys who were much more rested, given the heat & humidity. to just stubbornly throw Gregg out there again because he is the closer and not look at what he did the day before is crazy. Every team has to rest their closer if they are playing in a number of close games day after day, as the Cubs are right now.
No need to replace Gregg, just don’t use him on a day when he is likely to not have good stuff due to a tired arm from the day before.
LAcarl519 - August 3, 2009
Agreed
Point Taken I agree with that.
1908isjustayear - August 3, 2009
Heat
The Cubs might have been victims of the Florida heat this weekend. The Marlins play 81 games at that stadium, so I’m not saying this as an excuse. It is just that Dempster pitched pretty well, it was a close game, and the bullpen was used quite a bit in the first two games of the series. Without respect to climate or being gased, I would have pitched Dempster in the 7th hoping he would have gotten out of the inning throwing less than 20 pitches. Without roll-the-dice Heilman in the 7th it would have been a different ballgame regardless.
I don’t think Marshall would have been a better choice at the end of the game because of the righthanded hitters. Granted, he was less worked than others. Gregg is the closer and closers should be able to take the mound on two consecutive days. Now, if they have a close game tonight and need a closer, somebody else please.
Need 3 wins in Cincy.
AboutTheCubs - August 3, 2009
Meh, I'm looking for two of three from Cincy.
Then even if the Cubs split with the Rockies, they’ve got a reasonably acceptable 5-5 road trip.
daver - August 3, 2009
Wait- you can't have it both ways.
In 1969, the summer heat in Chicago playing 81 (all day) games was one of the excuses for why those Cubs folded in September…
…of course, a short bench, the manager, outside distractions and a LOT of double-headers (real ones, not these “day-night” mutations) were also blamed…
Funny, I don’t remember the goat curse ever being brought up back then…
Zeke - August 3, 2009
Here's something interesting about that summer...
…. it was a very cool summer in Chicago, much like this summer. It wasn’t the heat, it was lack of rest, primarily, that was responsible.
Five of the starting eight (Hundley, Santo, Williams, Banks, Kessinger) all played 150 or more games. That’s unheard-of today, especially for a catcher (and it was the 2nd straight year Hundley did it; no wonder his knees gave out).
If the 1969 Cubs had a decent bench, they’d have won that division. It had nothing to do with the heat.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Agreed. Saying it was the heat was a cop out.
I do agree with the short bench reason and the doubleheaders. I’d have to check Al, but a fair number of those 150 games for the stalwarts were in doubleheader form. At least, it sure seemed that way…
Zeke - August 3, 2009
The 1969 Cubs played 11 doubleheaders.
That doesn’t seem like a lot for the era. (The year before they played 15.)
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Al, is that 11 only HOME DHs or does that include the road DHs too?
Zeke - August 3, 2009
Includes the road DH's.
I’d have to look again to see how many were at home.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Hmm. Sure SEEMED like more...
Then again if you told the Players Association and MLB team GMs NOW that they were going to play 13-18% of their games in the coming year in doubleheaders, they’d ALL have a cow!
Zeke - August 3, 2009
If the Cubs had Pappas and Pepitone a year earlier
they may very well have won the division in 1969.
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
1969
Leo rarely used his bench in ’69. Guys were burnt out. Hundley caught over 150 games if I remember.
If we only had Hubbs - August 3, 2009
Whether Gregg shouldn't have pitched yesterday at all...
(and I agree he probably shouldn’t have), the fact remains that he’s not reliable to hold a one-run lead because he is HR-prone. He is what he is and I don’t see anyone more reliable in the pen. We don’t know if Guzmán can handle the pressure night after night, but even if he could and he became the closer, who would set-up? Heilmann? Gregg? Give me a break! That wouldn’t solve anything.
Gregg is one of this team’s weaknesses and that’s one of the reasons why I don’t see the Cubs prevailing against good pitching, meaning low-scoring games, in late September (or early October if the team makes the playoffs, somehow).
Fraggin Judge - August 3, 2009
Five of Gregg's 21 saves are one-run saves.
I don’t know how that compares to other closers.
Al Yellon - August 3, 2009
Caption
“Look, there’s an Easy Button on top of my head!”
CaliCub - August 3, 2009
defiently tied for most heartbreaking game this year with the detriot walk off.
Kevin Gregg just doesnt seem to get batters out when he needs to. He has cost the cubs loses that the rest of team played hard and deserved to win. Now off to cincinnati where although the Reds have lost six straight, they are due. Heres to a cubs win today and a ramirez return to the lineup!
cooltrev - August 3, 2009
lou
he also blew saturday’s game..in the 9th he put fuld in LF, kept Fukudome in CF, and Bradley in RF….
1/3 of the outfield was good with fuld…but if he’d a put Fuld in CF, Fukudome in RF, and stayed with Soriano or Bradley in LF you’d have 2/3 good out there, plus Fuld would have caugh the ball that went over Fukudome’s head and tied the game…..
Fukudome does not have CF speed, Fuld does……Reed, Pie, guys with speed catch those balls that’s why they play CF……
ARTA - August 3, 2009
Um
But the Cubs WON Saturday’s game.
vonde6 - August 3, 2009
what?
If Dome had dove for that ball, the Marlins likely would have had a walk-off. We won Saturday in part because of Lou.
drewishdrewid - August 3, 2009
Carl Lewis wouldn't have caught that ball.
Shanghai Badger - August 3, 2009
one thing that was overlooked
was putting Heilman in in the 7th or 8th…wtf he hasn’t been pitching that bad, but I would have rather seen Jeff Stevens, he hasn’t really shown that he can blow games like Heilman has. lol
HardForharden - August 3, 2009
Great news
Gregg only threw 9 pitches yesterday so he should be available tonight.
tharr - August 3, 2009
Scurred
……..gregg scares the hell outta me. Everytime he comes up to the plate he puts a scare in me. He doesnt pitch with any confidence and no presence what so ever. As much as Marmol scares me just the same…i would have more confidence in him than in Gregg. I know Marmol is not a closer but with some work i believe he can fill this roll. In the meantime though I guess all us Cubs fans will have to deal with Greggs antics. I would even settle for Wood…….
SoN of a GuN - August 4, 2009
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