Roy Halladay? Cliff Lee? Who needs 'em?
Over the course of several decades, the Cubs have made midseason acquisitions of starting pitchers in the hopes that hurler would help lead them to the postseason and glory beyond. From Milt Pappas to Dennis Eckersley to Rick Sutcliffe to Rich Harden, these pitchers have had varying degrees of success in accomplishing that goal.
But not since Hank Borowy, acquired from the Yankees on July 27, 1945, threw a 3-2 complete game victory over -- ironically -- the Cincinnati Reds two days later, has a Cubs pitching acquisition debuted with such a splash as Tom Gorzelanny did last night in Cincinnati. (Harden came close to doing what Borowy and Gorzelanny did in his first start with the Cubs on July 12, 2008, but he threw almost as many pitches -- 96 -- in 5.1 innings as Gorzelanny did in 7.1 last night, and that was the game where Carlos Marmol helped blow a 7-run lead; the Cubs eventually won in 11 innings.)
Gorzelanny was outstanding, throwing an efficient 98 pitches (66 strikes) in those 7.1 innings, and not allowing a run while he was in the game (the only run he was charged with scored on a Joey Votto single off Sean Marshall).
Can we expect this every time out from Gorzelanny? Of course not, but he showed the form that allowed him to have a fine season with the Pirates in 2007. His velocity was fine, touching 90-91 MPH; he located his breaking pitches well; and his pitch count in the middle innings had him on target for a possible complete game (and maybe even a shutout) until he ran out of gas in the eighth inning.
Meanwhile, the offense was carving up Johnny Cueto; Kosuke Fukudome hit his first career leadoff homer (and is now hitting .367/.479/.583 in the second half), but the game remained close until the sixth inning, when Koyie Hill's two-out, two-run double gave Gorzelanny some breathing room at 3-0, and then The Amazing Gorzelanny (it does sound like a lounge act or magician act, doesn't it?) helped himself with an RBI single.
Derrek Lee chipped in with his 22nd homer, which tied his 2007 season total for the most he's hit since his monster 2005 season. He's on pace to have a 34 HR, 110 RBI season -- any of you who were hollering for him to be dropped in the lineup, benched or DFA'd were obviously dead wrong. It may have taken this long -- three years -- for D-Lee to fully get over the effects of his 2006 wrist injury; he is on pace to get back to the offensive level he showed in 2003 and 2004.
I would have liked to see Jeff Stevens, rather than Angel Guzman, finish up last night. The Cubs had a 6-1 lead going into the ninth inning and that's a perfect time to not overuse one of your better relief pitchers. Guzman did not have a good outing, giving up a two-run homer to Wladimir Balentien (doesn't that name look misspelled to you? It's not) and putting another runner on base before ending it. Guzman threw 22 pitches -- many of them unnecessary -- so does that make him unavailable tonight? Once again, this points up the worthlessness of a 12-man pitching staff, because all year, Lou has had someone in the pen, whether it be David Patton or Stevens, that he simply won't use. Stevens now hasn't pitched in a week -- why bother having him on the staff at all?
In fact, with Gorzelanny being activated last night while Andres Blanco went on the DL with (yeah, right) a calf injury, the Cubs actually had 13 pitchers on the active roster for yesterday's game. What would they have done had Ryan Theriot not been able to continue after being hit on the inner arm near the elbow in the third inning? Play Mike Fontenot at SS and Alfonso Soriano at 2B the rest of the game? Tonight (unfortunately), Aaron Miles will be activated and either Stevens or Jeff Samardzija will be sent back to Iowa. You make the call on whether that's a good or bad thing. (I think we all agree on the answer to that one.)
Apologies to all here for forgetting the first pitch thread last night; I got busy during the day and had intended to schedule it as always, but forgot. Thanks to santoswoodenlegs for posting the "emergency" thread.
The complaint department is now closed. The Cubs maintain a first-place tie with the Cardinals after the woeful Mets bullpen blew another game and St. Louis beat them 12-7 in 10 innings; Albert Pujols hit a grand slam in the 10th to put that game away. Note to Cubs management: do not ever, ever, pitch to Pujols with the bases loaded. He now has 10 plate appearances with the bases loaded this year. Results: 7-for-9 with 5 HR and 24 RBI (the one non-AB plate appearance was a sac fly). The five grand slams ties him with Ernie Banks for the single-season NL record. Walking him with the bases loaded: better idea, you give up only one run instead of four. The Cubs will know before their game starts tonight whether they can pick up a full game on St. Louis, because the Cardinals and Mets play a day game in New York today. Onward.
0 recs | 555 comments
Great Cubs debut! Wow.
Now… Can our bullpen please finish up a game without giving up crooked numbers in the 9th? Geez.
SackMan - August 5, 2009
John Kruk made a suggestion on Baseball Tonight
He thinks Demspter should go back to be the closer because we have Z, Wells, Harden, Lilly and Gorzo in the rotation. He said “I know he has an ERA over 4.00 and he walks a lot of guys, but still….” and then added “The Cubs would walk away with the division.”
DKT - August 5, 2009
Interesting idea
but I don’t think Wells can pitch every 5th day the rest of the season
NashvilleBlue - August 5, 2009
He already has been pitching every 5th day for 16 starts
SackMan - August 5, 2009
We were discussing yesterday
His innings count is headed way above where he’s been at any point of his professional career. Might be better to let him skip a few starts down the line (if we can afford it) to protect a young arm.
madcow256 - August 5, 2009
I think they were discussing doing this...
… and once Ted Lilly comes back they could slot Gorzelanny in occasionally to give the other starters a break.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Wouldn't be bad to give
both Wells and Harden some rest down the stretch here
gwood - August 5, 2009
Agreed.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Things by circumstance seem to be setting up for a different approach
First it is way to early to fundamentally change the roles of the core members of the team, but it might be good to start thinking about it.
Gorzelanny was a high return, little risk acquisition but could pay enormous dividends. The biggest question is when Lilly returns, healthy and whether he will be effective. If you presume he will and return within the next 10 days than that does set up an interesting item. Cubs have but 4 off days (including tomorrow) till the end of the season. Therefore a spot 6th starter could have huge implications.
As for Dempster in a closer role this would be something that Piniella and staff might be thinking as he has read John Wooden’s book about adjusting the team for a post season and changing regular season roles into playoff roles. Be it Dempster or Harden are natural thoughts.
Ivy Walls - August 5, 2009
Makes sense
Especially since the rosters will expand soon too
SackMan - August 5, 2009
"If we can afford it..."
Being the key phrase there.
carmen_fanzone - August 5, 2009
I think there's a better chance of that than of Rich Harden pitching every 5th day the rest of the season.
Poloplaya14 - August 5, 2009
Because that wasn't a disaster the first time
Dempster is everything we don’t want in a closer- control issues, lots of walks, always making every AB harder than it should be.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Yeah... I really disagree with this.
Dempster, if he can right himself, is one of our better starters.
Fishbone2 - August 5, 2009
i disagree completely.
i’d take all of our other starters before him.
buckmulligan - August 5, 2009
I've just recently....
erased the memories of Dempster as our closer.
carmen_fanzone - August 5, 2009
I remember now why Dempster might never be the closer again
First week or so of 2007 Lou had what was, IMO, his greatest trip to the mound ever. Demp was in full Dumpster mode with the walks, Lou goes out to the mound and just says to Dempster “throw the ball over the f’n plate”
For all his pacing with this years crop of closers, I still think Lou and Dempster would be a worse combo.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Actually...
… Dempster had a pretty good year closing after that.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
And since then Dempster is in better shape and has
altered his delivery to include the glove waggle to avoid tipping pitchers.
Not sure it’s enough, but Dempster has improved as a pitcher.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Nothing like a good scare
to wake a player up
nji232 - August 5, 2009
My favorite "Lou trip to the mound"
was Marquis in SD, I think it was. “Throw strikes you effer” and he did. It was like magic
Allie - August 5, 2009
But still?
He walks a lot of guys, that’s not what you want from your closer. That was Demp’s achilles heal as a closer… walks.
CubsBullsBears - August 5, 2009
Here's my thought to it
Sean Marshall has the lowest ERA of any NL relieft pitcher. (or something to that effect) They showed during the game on CSN, Marshall’s ERA was 1.23. Next in line was Ryan Franklin with 1.33. Why don’t we give him a shot if needs be? I don’t agree with Kruk on this one at all.
jthack - August 5, 2009
Because Marshall is a lefty
He cannot pitch if he’s facing a right handed batter.
Ace Venom - August 5, 2009
He was originally a starter
which is where I feel he belongs anyway. Therefore he would be facing right handed hitters. He’s more than capable of pitching to righties
jthack - August 5, 2009
Ace Venom forgot this.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Yeah but Lou and Jim
Don’t think lefties can get righties out, nor can righties get lefties out.
Also we need a left handed power bat
nji232 - August 5, 2009
That's an interesting suggestion...
…but somehow I doubt Lou views Sean as a potential closer.
daver - August 5, 2009
No one does
I’m just saying if he’s forced to do it, it’d probably less stressful than watching Marmol or Gregg throw 30+ pitches and cause more doubt about our bullpen
jthack - August 5, 2009
Well, looking closer at Sean's numbers, it may not be less stressful after all.
As Shanghai points out, his WHIP isn’t particularly impressive. What’s more, though Sean’s 3.65 ERA may look good, his FIP is far higher – 4.42. And neither his K/9 nor his K:BB really stands out either. I’ve always been a big Sean Marshall fan, but he relies a lot on ground ball outs, which could get a closer into trouble.
daver - August 5, 2009
+1
Closer that pitch to contact don’t last to long unless they have a wicked out pitch. Mariano Rivera probably is the exception to this rule. He just saws lefties off so bad that they can’t get the ball out of the infield. You really need to be a strikeout guy to be a successful closer.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
Anyone know a site where we can find his FIP only when he's coming out of the bullpen?
Baseball reference has those splits but doesn’t track FIP. I imagine it would be better than 4.42 as a reliever.
madcow256 - August 5, 2009
That's a good question...
…and, unfortunately, I don’t have an answer. I get FIP from Fangraphs, but I don’t believe they break it out into “as a starter” and “as a reliever.” And I guess it is possible that Marshall’s FIP could be inflated by the eight starts he’s made this year – particularly the 7 ER drubbing by the Dodgers on 5/31.
daver - August 5, 2009
Well, if you know what goes into the FIP equation
could you get the splits from Baseball Reference and then do the math?
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
Yes, one could probably do that.
But I don’t think you guys want to trust my math.
daver - August 5, 2009
I'm no math major, either.
I’m only good for looking stuff up that can be found in media guides.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
ERA isn't the best judge of a pitcher.
His 1.31 WHIP is pedestrian. He’d probably be serviceable, but I don’t think he’s the best option.
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
Can we revive
Rod Beck?
jthack - August 5, 2009
The Shooter lives forever!
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
To back up short?
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
At least he throws strikes
Mapmaker - August 5, 2009
I wondered this yesterday for the playoffs, if made, considering the bounty of starters.
For the remainder of the season and possible playoffs who has the best stuff, mental makeup and would excel and not pout on being in the bullpend?
Lilly (healthy) has been the best, non wells, pitcher. Wells is basically a rookie, Z would be pissed, Demp wasn’t a great closer, Marshall is a ground ball pitcher, Gorz has one good outing, Can Harden handle the load?
Seems a waste to move a decent starter to the pen and only use in long relief when late innings are looking for support.
I’m assuming Gorz will shuttle back and forth between Iowa and be a fill in starter (if he doesn’t suck) and Marshall will stay in the pen. Maintains depth, but doesn’t improve anything.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
I don't see why we have to take a starter and make him "the closer".
We have seven guys (Z, Demp, Wells, Lilly, Harden, Gorzelanny, Marshall) who can go multiple innings. They are our best pitchers (relievers are, by definition, guys who can’t start). Why not use them all for multiple innings?
Eg:
Game 1: Z + Gorzo
Game 2: Lilly + Harden
Game 3: Wells + Demp
Game 4: Marshall + Guz + Marmol + Gregg
Or in whatever order. If Lilly happens to go 8, just go to a short reliever. If someone goes 5 or 6, bring in one of the other seven starters. It takes more micromanagement, but it makes sense that you put your best pitchers out there in the playoffs for as many innings as possible. It’s not like you have to be too worried about overworking their arms – the season’s almost over anyway.
cubsforever - August 5, 2009
I've often wondered the same thing.
I think the specialization of pitchers these days is kind of a perverse ritual, that has little rational basis (ie it seems to me somewhat arbitrary that people decide that once you get to the 6th inning, the ideal is to have 3 pitchers go 1 inning each afterward).
I’d love to see how your idea above would play out. Though you’d want to match pitchers based on how disimilar they are in stuff, to throw off batters…
CubsWin!Oregon - August 5, 2009
Tom Gorzelanny...
have we fleeced the Pirates again?
mondello58 - August 5, 2009
No... we didn't convince them to take Aaron Miles.
SackMan - August 5, 2009
Agreed.
Pray that Theriot doesn’t get hurt between now and September 1st.
mondello58 - August 5, 2009
Let's answer that in the evening of October 4th
right after the regular season ended.
blackhawk24 - August 5, 2009
If he's back to form
it’s a steal.
slcathena - August 5, 2009
Oh... and the Mets friggin suck.
Thanks a lot… way to screw up… supposed to have one of the best closers in the friggin game.
SackMan - August 5, 2009
There was talk on
New York radio this morning that Reyes may be out for the year. What a waste of a year for the Mets. Lets hope they are still struggling when we face them. No more 2004 please.
Grockcubs - August 5, 2009
Correct according to
NY Daily News
Also last night, Luis Castillo sprained his ankle walking down the steps into the dugout after grounding out. And we think we have it bad? Charlie Manuel’s days are counted.
tony412 - August 5, 2009
Charlie Manuel?
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
hahaha, my bad, Jerry Manuel
that was a Lou moment
tony412 - August 5, 2009
I think you mean Jerry
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
Yes I mentioned this in another thread
Just nuts , he fill down and he ended basically having to be carried out of the dugout. Talk about your freak injuries. Castillo was one of only two ( the other being Wright) of the mets 8 starting position players who had NOT been injured this year.
Doggie Stalker - August 5, 2009
What a nightmare that team is. A spanking new stadium and a clunker
of a team. Has any team gotten less out of a bigger payroll recently? It couldn’t happen to a nicer organization.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
Minaya is on borrowed time, too, I'd think.
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
Especially with that fiasco with the reporter trolling for a job with the organization. What a
stinking mess.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
I'd think so normally
but he just got something like a 3 or 4 year extension last year. I guess it depends on how much money the Mets are willing to eat.
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
Well, like WMHG says, the franchise is a mess
They may not give the architect a chance to fix it. Not all of it is Omar’s fault, but a lot of it is.
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
Their leader in HRs... has 5
5! Ryan Theriot has more than that!
Allie - August 5, 2009
Actually, David Wright has seven...
…but that’s still pretty embarassing.
daver - August 5, 2009
WHAT?!?!
You’re kidding, right?
chilango2 - August 5, 2009
That's what happens when you build a ballpark
without considering the strengths of your team.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
Perhaps they were trying to overcompensate for not having good pitching
and also maximize the speed of Reyes and Wright.
Or perhaps they weren’t thinking.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
What's funny
is a year ago, the Mets were worried Citi Field might turn out to be a hitters park. Apparently David Wright and some other players took batting practice and balls were flying out.
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
and then they closed
the stadium doors. Pretty sick total, huh?
I wonder what the lowest total of HR’s by a player leading his team in the modern era is?
socalbob - August 5, 2009
What I found is...
Tampa Bay - 19 3 times
tootle - August 5, 2009
they may very well break that number
it’s going to be tough for one of their hitters to get to 15-17 at the current pace.
socalbob - August 5, 2009
Sheffield has 10 and Beltrán has 8
Channelling the great poet Borat Sagdiyev: “wa-wa-wee-wa.”
chilango2 - August 5, 2009
Actually, I think it's 8 now - he hit one in today's game.
But, yeah. His OPS is still in the high .880s, though.
daver - August 5, 2009
Still doesn't beat Demps' toe last month
Or Woody’s hot tub fall a few years ago.
blackhawk24 - August 5, 2009
Or Chad's
dumpster
gwood - August 5, 2009
or Farnsworths karate kick of the fan in the clubhouse......
JB 23 - August 5, 2009
Don't overreact to this, but
Gorzy struke me last night as a very, very poor mans Greg Maddux. Certainly not overpowering, focused on location, movement, and manipulating his velocity. Well done for one game!!!
NashvilleBlue - August 5, 2009
You could also say Randy Wells is the same...
and if we get that sort of production from Gorzelanny, I am okay with that!
mondello58 - August 5, 2009
It is amazing how guys (Wells, now Gorzelanny) keep stepping up when a starting pitcher goes on the DL.
If only the bullpen and hitters would have more consistency, we would be looking at a nice comfortable lead in the division right now.
But so be it! Let’s hope the pitching (Marmol) and hitting (Bradley, Fonzi, Soto) can hold together and pressure the DeadBirds the rest of the season. Onward.
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
Every facet of this team seems to be clicking
except the bullpen at this time. Starting to remind me of the magic from last season.
NashvilleBlue - August 5, 2009
i hope not
cuz that magic ended in a 3 game sweep. just saying.
desmoCubbie - August 5, 2009
Honestly.
I’d rather have it now than at the start of the year like last year—hopefully we can stay hot through October.
slcathena - August 5, 2009
Hats Off...
To ’Dome for absolutely tearing it up in the second half this year and solidifying the leadoff spot…what a turnaround from last season, huh?
And to Koyie Hill…an unsung hero for holding down Catchers spot this past month!
NashvilleBlue - August 5, 2009
I agree
Even though Hill looks lost at the plate on occasion he has done real well behind the plate. And Dome has played extremely well in the leadoff hole.
Grockcubs - August 5, 2009
Hard not to root for Hill...
Guy has logged a ton of innings and he is what he is… plus I love his quote below.
Fishbone2 - August 5, 2009
+1 for Fishbone's quote
CaliCub - August 5, 2009
for those looking to buy their annual jersey
i’d recommend hill or wells
tim815 - August 5, 2009
agreed, this change in the lineup might be the most significant one...
…that doesnt seem to be getting much attention outside of BCB.
JB 23 - August 5, 2009
Gorz great, but
didn’t Don Cardwell throw a no-hitter in his Cub Debut? (early sixties-ish).
BatCubFan - August 5, 2009
Yes.
That’s the best debut after a trade in baseball history.
The 1960 Cubs, who Cardwell joined, were not a contending team. That’s the distinction I was trying to make.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
I think Sutcliffe's debut was a shade better
8 innings of shut out ball and house of horrors 9th in which he was charged with earned after Smith relieved walked three and allowed the inherited runners to score( though those runs were unearned due to an earlier error). Of course Sutcliffe was a star to
Gorzelanny was more an achievement in my view but stat wise I would rate Sutcliffe’s start higher.
Doggie Stalker - August 5, 2009
A four-hit shutout after eight innings.
And then a near disaster in the ninth inning.
This game.
Not sure which one I would rate higher, though I don’t have pitch counts for Sutcliffe’s debut.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
but given pre-game expectations...
Gorzelanny delivered a better surprise (versus Sutcliffe’s arrival in ’84). We need positive surprises. It helps to make up for the blood-pressure situations from the bullpen.
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
Although, Sutcliffe had been pretty bad with Cleveland before his arrival.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
He had a bad start in 1984
but he’d won 17 games in 1983 and was the AL ERA champion in 1982.
Josh Timmers - August 5, 2009
but wasn't it bad team support for Sutcliffe in '84?
I personally remember being very pumped about the pick up. the guy had a good track record and more of a track record than Gorzelanny had/has. I thought he had more bad luck than bad stuff on Cleveland—kind of like Cliff Lee’s losing record in Cleveland this year (though Sutcliffe’s ’84 #s were not in that league).
Lee’s actual #s were still lights out, when you back out his first two starts of this year. I think Sutcliffe, on a relative basis, got tainted with the same kind of bad team problems. The Cubs picked up a guy who was throwing in AAA this year for a perpetual loser. So of course, expectations were lower.
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
B-side
on top of which, Gorzelanny was the B-side throw in, the Matt Murton, in the Grabow trade. Sutcliffe was the guy the Cubs actually traded for. So now matter how you cut it, Gorzelanny had low, low expectations in his first start.
If Lilly did not get hurt, who knows if he even ends up playing here?
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
His ERA
was 5.15, so it wasn’t all the Indians.
Josh Timmers - August 5, 2009
As an Indians fan, I remember being very POed when that deal went down.
Of course I was still living in Cleveland at the time and had not yet nor been afflicted with Cub fever. I was thinking Joe who? Mel who? Grrr….
ballhawk - August 5, 2009
Yes, he did.
Here’s a link to the box score.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Our luck with starting pitching has been unreal this season
Z, Ted, Demp, Harden,Marshall and now Wells, Hart, and Gorzelanny. All these injuries and we still haven’t had many bad starts, and hardly any from the replacements.
Thanks for another win Dusty.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
We lead the league in quality starts
Now, if they only had a stat for quality closes
SackMan - August 5, 2009
Good thing they don't.
Team doesn’t need us bemoaning them last in the league in another stat.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Speaking of quality closes
when was the last 1-2-3 9th inning? Been so long I forget.
JFCubFan - August 5, 2009
Hell, could have been last week.
Problem is the memories of those aren’t the ones that haunt.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
aren't those called
holds and saves?
blackhawk24 - August 5, 2009
"holds" is the most bogus stat ever
completely worthless
Allie - August 5, 2009
followed closely by "quality start"
ballhawk - August 5, 2009
QS's require six innings.
Holds don’t even require an out.
cubsforever - August 5, 2009
really, I didn't realize that about holds
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
as long as you exit without giving
up a lead, you get a hold.
Allie - August 5, 2009
Okay then, I agree a hold is a worthless stat then
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
no outs?
That’s pretty silly. Should be something meaningful like require a pitcher to:
Enter and make final out in same inning (after 6th) where team in lead, or
Inherrit runners and make final out in same inning where team in lead or tied (after 6th).
All where not a save situation.
I really like the idea of a useful stat to measure the effectiveness of the bullpen roles for the 7th and 8th inning.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
6 innings
and post a 4.50 ERA.
I think the Braves changed a quality start in their terms to 7 IP with 3 or fewer ER.
socalbob - August 5, 2009
I don't get that worked up
on “quality start”.. you should be able to survive anything below a 4.50 ERA.
Allie - August 5, 2009
Only thing that drove me NUTS last night
Why in gods name did Lou have Marmol warming up in the 9th??? It was potentially a rerun of the Gregg overuse (throw 36 pitches and then go back out the next day) all over again.
AndHart120 - August 5, 2009
+1
SackMan - August 5, 2009
I didn't know that...
that is crazy!
NashvilleBlue - August 5, 2009
Agreed
The only thing worse was watching Soriano in LF
redivycubs - August 5, 2009
I am kind of surprised they scored that a triple.
Fishbone2 - August 5, 2009
Those friendly home scorers?
Allie - August 5, 2009
It's the expectations game,
Not even the scorekeeper expects Sori to catch that one.
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
Didn't it hit him
in the glove?
Allie - August 5, 2009
It did. Bounced off the thumb.
Fishbone2 - August 5, 2009
Actually, the scorekeeper just couldn't see Sori.
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
Yeah, he even has problems with that too.
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
if it hits, you must acquit!
sorry but it needed to be said
ballhawk - August 5, 2009
Len's call was something like -
“Fly ball to left, and Soriano’s gonna… NOT make the catch.” followed by no comment on Soriano.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Anyone else hear
Bob on “The Afternoon Saloon” yesterday? They asked if Soriano was lazy or just not very good… and Bob … well it was funny exchange if you heard it.
Allie - August 5, 2009
Didn't hear it. I assume he ducked the question?
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Check out the podcast
He didn’t really duck it… b/c its obvious he has an opinion. It was kinda funny, at least, I thought it was.
Hopefully, this link works. it was yesterday’s show.
Allie - August 5, 2009
Breanly sure made a comment.
He hemmed and hawed a bit, but it was clear HE though it should have been caught…
Zeke - August 5, 2009
Agreed as well.
Seeing Marmol warming up only made me MORE nervous.
daver - August 5, 2009
I was prepared to shut off the TV...
if Marmol came in. Was actually cheering for Guzman to get out of his jam so we wouldn’t see Marmol, not necessarily just to end the game. LOL.
carmen_fanzone - August 5, 2009
and we still have people wondering
why Marmol’s command is gone….
amazes me
DartmouthCubsFan - August 5, 2009
i think you're simplifying things a bit too much
by claiming that the lack of command is purely a result of overwork. still, i do agree with you that it’s not helping.
buckmulligan - August 5, 2009
Because
Lou didn’t know if Guzman was going to implode. He didn’t want to wait too long in case Guzman let another guy or 2 one base. He hadn’t been in that role before with the Cubs.
blackhawk24 - August 5, 2009
Wasn't there someone else available, though?
Marmol threw 36 pitches the night before.
daver - August 5, 2009
Stevens
No wait, you can’t use him for whatever reason…
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
Yeah, his name crossed my mind, too.
Honestly, I need to take a look at the Cubs roster – with all the comings and goings, I’ve kinda lost track of exactly who’s in the frickin’ bullpen.
daver - August 5, 2009
apparently so has Lou
WanderingWanderer - August 5, 2009
Well, now that look at...
…the depth chart, Samardzija was presumably available. He hasn’t pitched since Aug. 1. But the fact that we didn’t see him speaks volumes about Lou’s confidence in the Shark.
daver - August 5, 2009
Well, now that look at...
…the depth chart, Samardzija was presumably available. He hasn’t pitched since Aug. 1. But the fact that we didn’t see him speaks volumes about Lou’s confidence in the Shark.
daver - August 5, 2009
But, but it's shark week.
I’ll refrain from posting the response twice.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
He is only a misdirection and used to warm up next
to the pitcher Lou intends to use.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
and 91 pitches
in 4 days
warming him up last night should’ve been an arrestable offense
DartmouthCubsFan - August 5, 2009
But Marmol pitched 30+ pitches the night before...
I would have taken my chance with Grabow
carmen_fanzone - August 5, 2009
Why he took Marshall was the thing that drove me NUTS
Best rested guy in the BP ( Save Stevens who probably is in Iowa but the forgot to tell us for a week). He gives up ONE hit and the Cubs
still have 5 run lead but you take him out because he is a lefty. He used to be a starter, he can pitch against righties. Guzman had not pitched on Monday but he had pitched a lot over the weekend. This is how Lou overworks the pen when it is totally uncalled for. Instead of using Marshall and Stevens with a decent lead , he blows out Guzman who won’t be available today.
Doggie Stalker - August 5, 2009
Completely agree.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Welcome aboard Tom,
keep it up, man.
Fonzie2178 - August 5, 2009
Rosales
I enjoyed watching Reds 3B Rosales go crashing into the Cubs dugout railing in the 6th innning as he was going after a foul ball that landed about 15 rows back! That guy seems a little off-center.
NashvilleBlue - August 5, 2009
He runs kinda funny
but seems to play hard
tony412 - August 5, 2009
Chris Sabo-ish.
Fishbone2 - August 5, 2009
Aaron Rowand crazy. That guys is going to kill himself.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
Speaking of 3B
How come Rolen hasn’t played in the last two games? He is hitting .323 and Rosales is hitting something like .213. Just seems weird that the Reds wouldn’t go with their best hitting lineup.
CubFanSince1970 - August 5, 2009
Marquis beaned him in the head the last game of the Rox series...
must not be right yet.
Fishbone2 - August 5, 2009
I hate doing this to you, Fish, but . . . pet peeve alert!
“Beaned in the head” is actually redundant. The head is the “bean”; you can’t get beaned anywhere else.
At least you didn’t say “beemed” or “beamed” . . . .
:)
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
Sounds like he might be out for a few more games.
Linky
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
I guess Marquis was pretty upset about it
Might be in the article (can’t open it here . . . ) but it was mentioned during Monday’s broadcast that he slammed his glove down and was really upset about hitting his old teammate, and Rolen motioned to him that he was ok.
At any rate, I hope he’s better, but off against the Cubs is ok.
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
Saw it BBTN
Marquis was really upset about it. Rolen tipped his cap as he walked off to let him know he was okay.
Allie - August 5, 2009
I knew that... my fingers are working faster than my "bean" this morning.
Fishbone2 - August 5, 2009
It's all good
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
bean there, done that
CaliCub - August 5, 2009
I prefer my beans baked, thank you very much
I prefer my beans baked, thank you very much
eths - August 5, 2009
Hmmm, you may be right
but in baseball we say beaned as the act of getting hit, not that he was hit in the head. At least thats how I always used the word beaned in relation to baseball growing up.
tony412 - August 5, 2009
Yes, but if you think about it, it makes sense.
Plus, here’s a link for you:
tr.v. beaned, bean·ing, beans Slang
To hit (another) on the head with a thrown object, especially a pitched baseball.
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
"Beam" used to be popular slang
for check out with great interest.
As in: “Dude, that chick over there is beamin’ you hard.”
Goodie1969 - August 5, 2009
Rolen walks too much for Dusty Baker's taste.
You just can’t have him out there clogging the bases every night!
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
So, Rolen is in Dusty's lab being reprogrammed to
Corey the hell out of the ball?
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
I didn't realize how deceptive Gorzo was.
He’s a pretty big guy, hides the ball well and his wind up is really fast. Hats off. Great start!
Fishbone2 - August 5, 2009
Great game for Gorzo, but...
Uh, you have heard of Don Cardwell, right?
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
Uh, already covered in thread above
BleedsbluinMI - August 5, 2009
Sorry, didn't see that in there.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
Right.
Like I said, Cardwell’s no-hitter was the best debut after a trade than anyone.
But the ‘60 Cubs were not a contending team. That’s the difference. Last night’s game meant more than the no-hitter.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Gorzelanny should pull up a seat next to Ted Lilly every night the rest of the season
They have similar stuff IMO, and Ted has mastered being a flyball pitcher at Wrigley Field, we all know of Teds great teaching ability (its Ted), and I think Gorzelanny could really benefit from the whole thing.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Agreed.
No man is an island. And no man can be Ted. But Gorzo could be Ted’s apprentice – he certainly looked Lilly-esque last night.
daver - August 5, 2009
I listened to last night's game this morning in central Europe , and ...
… I just hope that Gorzelanny is not just a flash in the pan. It sounded like he had the speed, the control, the mechanics and the intelligence to be a real sensation. It looks like Hendry may have made a very smart and/or very lucky trade.
eths - August 5, 2009
Gorz
has had some success in the past so it’s not totally out of nowhere….it’s just a matter of being healthy and putting everything together, for one night he did, let’s hope he can do it again, and again.
tony412 - August 5, 2009
The new guy
I like him. This could be a steal.
As far as the closer goes, everytime I observe Gregg seems to be okay he blows a save or two.
I actually think how bad Gregg is has been greatly exaggerated.
But if we changed I wouldn’t mind kicking around Sean Marshall.
puckishcubsfan - August 5, 2009
I was listening to a podcast today
and heard an interesting stat. All 5 of Gregg’s blown saves have been on the road. He’s been perfect at Wrigley.
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
Further Gregg home/road splits.
Hitters are hitting .213 vs. him at Wrigley, and he has a 2.92 ERA there.
On the road hitters are hitting .260 and he has a 5.40 ERA on the road.
3 HR allowed at Wrigley, 7 on the road.
The innings pitched and batters faced are nearly identical home and road, so the sample sizes are the same.
Inexplicable.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
That is freakish.
daver - August 5, 2009
Maybe the fear of the walkoff is too much for him. At home the team has an opportunity to cover
for his screwup.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
He is the anti-Harden.....
JB 23 - August 5, 2009
Sort of the inverse of Harden this season
until his last couple starts…
blackhawk24 - August 5, 2009
that's not promising, considering our schedule.
buckmulligan - August 5, 2009
Just outta curiousity - which podcast was it?
daver - August 5, 2009
It was an interview from the Score
with Todd Hollandsworh on Mully and Hanley
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
Ah, OK - thanks.
I’m always on the lookout for decent baseball podcasts.
daver - August 5, 2009
You know, that's a good idea for a Fan Post.
When I get some time, I’ll post a discussion of the best available baseball podcasts. (Or if someone else has time now, be my guest).
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
Better yet, when you find a great Cubs podcast link it as a
fanshot.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Yeah, I've thought about doing that, too.
It would be a good topic – especially considering how podcasts seem to come and go.
daver - August 5, 2009
He did, however, blow a big lead in a non-save situation at home vs. Houston
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
And then made the excuse that it wasn't a save situation
I think people have been rough on Gregg in the sense that he is performing basically at the level you’d expect him to be.
However, I have started to notice a pattern where he makes comments that can be construed as excuses when he doesn’t do well.
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
Good solid win.
Lets get that sweep today. I don’t expect Gorzo to throw this well every start, however if he can get the Cubs into the 7th with 3 runs or less I think we will take it.
A big “IF”, getting anything consistent from Soriano and Bradley this team could really finish strong and stay on this pace.
I know we all scoreboard watch, however the Cubs need to take care ot themselves. We can see getting help from others can be aggravating. Mets have Johan going and they still can’t get a win. Just keep winning Cubs.
Grockcubs - August 5, 2009
If Gorzelanny keeps being successful until Ted returns
I would think the cubs would put him in the bullpen right? We all know Lou and Jim love lefties, and he has to be more capable of getting outs than some people.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
This would definitely be a good problem to have!
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
3 lefties in the bullpen!?
That’s unpossible!
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
Bring up BJ Ryan
and all the sudden we have 4 lefties, plus Marmol, Guzman, Gregg. Lou’s dream come true
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Holy moley.
To go from 1 LHP to 4 in 2-3 weeks – Lou’s head may explode.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
Something tells me he would just ask for more right handed pitching then
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Or more lefthanded hitters.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
We could always use more left handed hitters
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Until the Cubs see the Phillies next week.
Then the mantra will be “we need to get more right-handed.”
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
can any of them swing a bat? :-)
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
I think Lou has
left hand envy
gwood - August 5, 2009
Harden
I still like the idea of Harden as a closer. He has that combo of great fastball & straight change that makes a dominating closer (see Hoffman).
KedzieKid - August 5, 2009
has the fact that Harden isn't always Mr. Control out there crossed anyones mind
when we think of moving him to closer?
I maintain that Kevin Gregg will be fine, Lou needs to use Marmol no more than 3 times a week. Marshall, Guzman, and Grabow can all handle the eighth if needed. The bullpen is going through a “thing” right now, but I think it comes out okay.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
It's Kerry Wood's fault
Ever since he sloughed off injury and control issues and became an effective 9th inning guy, I believe Harden can do the same.
CaliCub - August 5, 2009
Harden is still too valuable as a starter to put in the closer's role.
daver - August 5, 2009
And IIRC,
it has been discussed that Harden would be too suseptible to injury being used more often than every 5 days.
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
Only every other day when someone suggests we make Harden a closer
Remember everyone, this is the guy that we give extra days of rest to in order to preserve his arm?
madcow256 - August 5, 2009
Not advocating
Harden for closer because I agree with Daver that Harden is still too valuable as a starter, but the injury argument is the same one everyone made when considering Wood as closer. Wood overcame that concern admirably IMO
gwood - August 5, 2009
And in any case
It won’t happen this late in the season. Seems this comes up every few days. Not sure why.
rlpete - August 5, 2009
And Harden's been a victim of the long ball every bit as much as Kevin Gregg.
I agree – don’t panic. Stick with Gregg.
daver - August 5, 2009
Yeah I forgot about that
Even more reason why I’m against it.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
The return of Miles..
I hadn’t given up on the guy before he went on the DL – I am not so certain it will be a bad thing. I realize I’m in the minority, but he’s another one of those guys whose numbers so far this year are way, way below what he’s done the rest of his career. To me, this points to a high likelihood that he’s got more to offer than what we’ve seen so far.
DisCUBbobulated - August 5, 2009
Take a deep breath
go outside for a moment, when you come back you will realize that Miles had a .566 OPS in significant playing time at AAA, at AAA. He isn’t a major league baseball player anymore. He is a way worse fielder and equal hitter to Andres Blanco.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Actually
Miles is a worse hitter than Blanco (at least this year). Blanco has posted a .600+ OPS so far this year.
gwood - August 5, 2009
How freaking pathetic is it that somebody with a OPS barely over .600
is the better hitter in a comparison.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
very pathetic
although, I think it was SWL that pointed out the other day that when Miles went down he had accumulated a .500 OPS, so he is improving.
gwood - August 5, 2009
AAA numbers
In 21 games, .253/.267/.566, .299 SLG, 14 SO, 8 RBI, 0HR
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
I believe someone said yesterday that he has made 5 errors in those 21 games as well.
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
Aluminum Glove Winner
jthack - August 5, 2009
Dr. Strangeglove
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
Why is this man still on this team? What can he possibly do to help
the Cubs down the stretch? Please, someone convince me why he is in a major league uniform. I would think that Hendy would release him just to get rid of the reminder of how bad a signing this guy was. Simply amazing.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
My best guess...
…is that, right or wrong, Hendry wants to give Miles a few weeks to redeem himself. If he’s still playing horribly (which is likely), he gets buried on the depth chart in September when rosters expand, left off the playoff roster, and released in the offseason. This isn’t really about Miles being the best available option on the roster, it’s about Cubs management making sure he’s finished before they cut him loose… I don’t particularly like it, but I understand it.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
I have a news flash for Cubs Management - He's done.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
Yeah, this makes a lot of sense.
I just hope he doesn’t hurt the team too much in the next four weeks.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Out of curiousity...
While Blanco “injury” seems highly dubious to me, is it possible that it’s actually real and that, because they knew he would need to go to the DL, it allowed them the opportunity to try out Miles for a bit? In other words, let’s assume for argument’s sake that Blanco really was hurt. They decide to use it as an opportunity to give Miles that last chance that they otherwise wouldn’t give him?
In which case, once Blanco is healthy again—and assuming that Miles still sucks—we cut ties in some manner…
Is that possible? I’m just trying to think of reasons for why they would’ve brought Miles up. I find it hard to believe that Hendry thinks that Miles is going to contribute more than Blanco…
CubsWin!Oregon - August 5, 2009
they brought Miles up
because you’re not allowed to leave a major league player to rot in AAA after he’s out of options.
Now, your scenario may be what they’re hoping happens, but I expect Miles to be on the roster till the end of baseball in 2009, however long that goes.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Miles could only be on rehab assignment for 20 days.
After that, he had to be recalled or DFA’d or released.
I would have voted for “released”, but my vote doesn’t count.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
It makes sense
But a division race isn’t time to give a nice guy one last chance.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
redeem himself? Were in a divsional race, we need the best players possible..
…and we essentialy just gave up our best defensive IF for a guy who is done with the game!!!
JB 23 - August 5, 2009
just another in what has been a long line of poor roster decisions by
Jim and Lou
WanderingWanderer - August 5, 2009
Poor roster decisions
that have lead to us competing for our 3rd straight division title…not to say they have not made mistakes (who doesn’t) but they must be making a few correct calls
NashvilleBlue - August 5, 2009
the only role I see for Aaron Miles
is to place the ball on the hitting tee for Milton Bradley in batting practice in the cage and if there is no hitting tee—he can be the hitting tee, by standing up and putting the ball on his head (hoping Milton is hitting the ball square that day).
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
I about wet myself..
Laughing at those last two comments. Nice…I’ll make sure I footnote them when I use em.
TeddyThunder - August 5, 2009 via mobile
You're a brave man to take this stance...
…and I guess we don’t have any choice but to see if Miles can give this team something, anything this season. Bottom line for me remains that Aaron Miles’ has little to nothing to offer the Cubs right now. I think Baker offers more vs. LHP at the plate and Blanco is far, far better in the field (though, apparently, injured at the moment).
daver - August 5, 2009
I'd rather see Kosuke Fukudome play shortstop than have Aaron Miles there.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Don't make me remind it, Al...
dragonsfanatic - August 5, 2009
That bad?
Perhaps Soriano can be the backup SS until Blanco gets back. I know he would love that chance.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Dome started as shortstop, then 3rd baseman as a Dragon
and he made very critical, game and season deciding awful errors in 1999 Japan Series against Sadaharu Oh and Fukuoka Daiei Hawks, and that disappointed all Dragons fans…
The conversion to outfield worked just great for Dome.
dragonsfanatic - August 5, 2009
I bet he could play SS in an emergency.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Having to play Miles at shortstop is clearly an emergency.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
it's a disaster.
buckmulligan - August 5, 2009
Or when Lou decides to pull off another one of his patented...
…late game positional switcheroos.
daver - August 5, 2009
Don't remind me of that. That was like clowns playing baseball.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
Let's just hope Sean Marshall doesn't wind up at SS one day.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
we may need him at first if Theriot's arm continues to hurt.
Isn’t Marshall taller than DLee?
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
Yes by 2 inches. He is six foot seven
Doggie Stalker - August 5, 2009
That would make headlines on Chunichi Sports Newspaper...
dragonsfanatic - August 5, 2009
Out of curiosity
and I may have asked you this before, how much coverage does a former Japanese league player like Soriano get in Japan. I realize he played there a long time ago, just wondering if he is still news back in Japan.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Sometimes back in talk
Because Sori was not a big star player when he was with Hiroshima Carp, his Japanese career is referred only sometimes when people are talking about Dome (and Hideki Matsui when Sori was at Yankees) in TV and radio commentary. I don’t think many fans know he was in Japan other than serious baseball maniac. He sometimes jumping in Dome interview by Japanese media as he’s talking some funny Japanese (I guess he forgot most of the language…)
Derrek Lee is also referred as the son of Leon, a 10-year star player in NPB, and Derrek was a hyper kid running around in Kawasaki Stadium in early 80’s.
dragonsfanatic - August 5, 2009
Cool, thanks
Derrek sounds like what Ken Griffey Jr. was here in the US.
I’ll bet if Bobby Valentine ever manages in the US again he will be watched closely by Japan.
Also typical Soriano forgetting Japanese but trying to speak it anyway, he really is a character.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Bobby Valentine
He officially announced he won’t renew his contract with Chiba Lotte Marines so he will leave Japan right after this season.
His unmotivated Marines are having awful season (37-52-3) even they added former a Whitesox Tadahito Iguchi this year.
dragonsfanatic - August 5, 2009
You have tied games over there?
I did not know that.
chilango2 - August 5, 2009
J-league games don't go past 10 innings
I’m not sure where that rule came from, but it’s been around for quite some time.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
Actually, it's 12 innings.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
They must have changed that recently, then
When I was in Japan a few years back it was still 10.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
recent history of tied game rule in CL
1974-1982: no extra inning beyond 3 hours
1983-1987: no extra inning beyond 3 hours and 20 minutes
1988-1989: no extra inning beyond 12 innings (no time limit)
1990-2000: no extra inning beyond 15 innings plus make up game if tied
2001-current: no extra inning beyond 12 innings, no make up game
dragonsfanatic - August 5, 2009
Well I certainly can't argue with that!
I don’t know why I was remembering the limit being 10 innings, especially since the current rule was in place when I was there in 2001.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
Right, and....
“J-League” here means pro soccer league…
dragonsfanatic - August 5, 2009
True...
…but how many Americans baseball fans know what “NPB” means?
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
not sure
but I sometimes find NPB or Japanese Legue or something else in US media when they talk about Japanese player’s career….
dragonsfanatic - August 5, 2009
I usually see something like:
“Chunichi Dragons of the Japanese Central League” or “Nippon Ham Fighters of Japan’s Pacific League”
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
Mexico's Summer and Winter Leagues also have ties
FWIW.
chilango2 - August 5, 2009
I think Fontenot may be the second-best SS on the roster right now.
Ick.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
Didn't Lou try Fontenot at SS in 2007
and pull the plug in like the third inning?
Its possible that just happened in my head, but I thought I remember it.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
I think I remember that too
jthack - August 5, 2009
Yeah, that was kind of a disaster.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
More like a pending disaster
since Lou pulled the plug very early, before much damage could be done.
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
Maybe - I'm pretty sure Fontenot played SS in at least one spring training game this year.
daver - August 5, 2009
3 starts there in '07, 1 inning there in '08
It wasn’t pretty but it’s probably better than Miles could do right now…
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
Yeah.. it's kind of like sticking up for that kid everyone picks on in Junior High...
It’s cool. I’ve held a consistent opinion all year that slumps for people like Lee, Soriano, and Bradley would ease as, given time, they would likely return to their career averages. I included Freel and Miles in this as well when I brought it up, so it would really be dishonest for my to not stick by Miles now.
DisCUBbobulated - August 5, 2009
he has little upside.
at best he can hit a few dying quails and play suspect defense. he’s not fast. he’s pretty useless.
buckmulligan - August 5, 2009
Cubs winning, Dragons winning
Good day…
Cubs is now tied with Cards at 1st place, and my Dragons is coming back all the way from far away and now only 1-game behind archrival Tokyo Giants… (Dragons is 13-4 in June and 17-7 in July, now 15 games above .500). Now we are ready to grab 1st place!
dragonsfanatic - August 5, 2009
Congrats to the Dragons!
May they and the Cubs both win championships this year.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Wow, let's hope both teams stay hot.
daver - August 5, 2009
He can have the table
but not the restaurant until he gets the Cubs into the playoffs.
If he helps them win the WS, then he can have the entire franchise.
blackhawk24 - August 5, 2009
like Da Coach
Da Gorz
tony412 - August 5, 2009
now
THAT is a good nickname.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
I've said it before, and I'll say it again
as often as Dusty gets flack for his misuse of starting pitchers, Lou’s use of the bullpen this season has been equally atrocious.
WanderingWanderer - August 5, 2009
A would rate Lou's bullpen management this year as...
a notch above horrific.
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
rivaled only by Lou and Jim's general handling of the roster
WanderingWanderer - August 5, 2009
Not even close
Abusing SP’s will cost a team big time. RP’s are more interchangeable than SP’s. Even though their value is relatively high, it’s not nearly as high as SP’s.
I’ve never heard “relief pitching win’s world series”.
blackhawk24 - August 5, 2009
Really?
Then why did Mariano Rivera receive the MVP for the ’99 WS?
JFCubFan - August 5, 2009
I have heard of
relief pitching loses world series. Which means you do need a good bullpen
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Pujols with bags loaded
Al,
Are you advocating intentionally walking him with the bases loaded? I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but it is a novel one, and has only been done a few times in MLB history. I think it happened once to Ted Williams, but does anyone remember who else? I feel like it happened sometime in the last decade or two. It’s a pretty gutsy move.
danimal15 - August 5, 2009
It would depend on the situation.
If you’re ahead by a couple of runs and he comes up with the bases loaded, I’d seriously consider it.
Barry Bonds was the other guy.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
So far this season he's had 2.4 RBI per bases loaded appearance
Walking him would obviously only lead to 1 RBI . . . the question then becomes, does the next hitter average 1.4 RBI in his AB?
madcow256 - August 5, 2009
yeah hard to do that now
when you still have to face Holliday and Ludwick
tony412 - August 5, 2009
Joe Maddon walked Josh Hamilton
last year with the bases loaded.
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
"The" other?
Al, I’m disappointed! I didn’t realize Nap Lajolie was, but how could you forget Swish?
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
I had forgotten that.
You’re right.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
I get the emotive rationale for that...
But has anyone looked at the statistical basis for walking him there? His performance so far notwithstanding (and really, it seems almost impossible that he’d continute to hit at that rate), don’t long term statistical trends suggest it’s more likely he’ll make an out without an RBI?
CubsWin!Oregon - August 5, 2009
Josh Hamilton got the IBB last season with the bases loaded
Its a smart move, unless Holliday beats you. Still you have to make Holliday beat you not Pujols.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Barry Bonds, at least once
And the one I’m thinking of was actually in his pre-steroids days.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
in his steroid days
I don’t know that I would ever pitch to Bonds.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
That's true.
The game was on May 28, 1998. The Diamondbacks were leading 8-6, bases loaded, last of the 9th. Bonds was intentionally walked to make it 8-7.
Brent Mayne, the next hitter, lined to right field to end the game.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Wasn't Brenly managing the Snakes then? He looked like a genuis after that move.
willie mays hayes' gloves - August 5, 2009
No, that was Buck Showalter.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Nope - it was still Buck Showalter
And if the Giants had their “normal” lineup that day (Bonds hitting 3rd, Kent hitting cleanup) it might not have worked out very well – in fact they probably wouldn’t have tried it at all.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
Williams
Guess I was wrong about Williams being one of them. Thanks for reminding me about the Bonds walk. I knew it had been done relatively recently.
Hard to advocate doing it to Pujols if Holliday or Ludwick is up next.
danimal15 - August 5, 2009
Looking at Da Gorz's mechanics on mlb.tv...
The difference in his and marmol’s follow through is like night and day. Gorz has incredible balance on the mound and he looks immovable. Reminds me almost exactly of maddux (I know someone else made the same comparison) and how maddux was able to recover after the pitch and be ready to field anything that came his way.
cubsonWGN4ever - August 5, 2009
Was BCB really slow for anyone else this morning?
Anyway, remember the first fanshot about how the Cubs acquired Gorzy and Grabow, and me and Blou were really excited about Gorzy, and saying he has potential to be good, and everyone else was making fun of us, and telling us we were stupid idiots?
wrigleyrocker12 - August 5, 2009
It's been acting a little funky with me for the last 10 to 20 minutes or so.
daver - August 5, 2009
It seems better now.
It was actually down for a couple of minutes.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
I thought you were just trying to make sure you got your point across
I thought you were just trying to make sure you got your point across
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
His were to different posts.
Not the KOW duplicate the heading in the body error.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
I know. I'm just tweaking one of my other selves.
I know. I’m just tweaking one of my other selves.
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
oh, so you're using Twikker now?
ballhawk - August 5, 2009
Did I double post
Did I double post somewhere?
daver - August 5, 2009
It looks like that.
On my computer, it appears you double-posted a comment titled “Well, now that look at”.
I was having trouble posting comments earlier today as well. I’d hit “post,” and it said the comment couldn’t post. The preview was also down.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
that's been happening
on and off all year.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
I think there's an echo in the thread today!
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
Re: DLee - "any of you who were hollering for him to be dropped in the lineup, benched or DFA'd were obviously dead wrong."
I take small issue with lumping in those that wanted to drop him in the lineup or bench him with the DFA crowd
Obviously DFAing Lee would have been dead wrong. Morbidly, ashes to ashes, six feet under, on the road to Valhalla and Elysium dead wrong. But given the extended slump Derrek was in at the time, would dropping him in the lineup or even sitting him down for a few games been that horribly wrong?
Or are you of the notion that the only way he was going to be able to turn things around was to trudge out there every single day and play through it until things start clicking again.
ballhawk - August 5, 2009
As I recall, there were three camps -
DFA
Bench him and start Hoffpaiuir
Move him out of the #3 spot
I don’t recall any sentiment to leave him at #3. I thought he had to play every day, but thought his slump was crushing the team in the 3 spot.
The biggest problem were people still calling for all of those things 30+ days after he turned it around.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
I think there were a few of us...
Who prefered for him to stay in the #3 position b/c it’s statistically the least significant slot in the top 6….(which is counter-intuitive, I realize). And also because there is really little importance to batting order, all things considered anyway.
But I’m mostly picking nits at that point…
CubsWin!Oregon - August 5, 2009
Which was, of course, exactly what happened.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Just because something ended up well doesn't mean the route to get there was the best one or the only one.
I’m guessing there were more than a few games earlier in the season where Lee didn’t do so well at the plate at very critical moments. I can’t say he specifically cost ‘X’ number of games because I don’t think you can measure such things. But I don’t think it’s beyond reason to suggest that sitting him out a few days or dropping him in the order might have relaxed him and/or cleared his head enough to enable him to become productive again that much sooner.
That approach seemed to work with Soriano – and is anyone here going to argue that it shouldn’t have happened earlier?
ballhawk - August 5, 2009
Gorz did a great
job last night. Hope he can keep up the good work. Nice to see Dome get a leadoff homerun. I never gave up on him.
What are the odds that just because he’s available tonight Lou will start Miles?
sue369 - August 5, 2009
Don't even THINK that!
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
That is Lou's tendancy with guys who were everyday or platoon players.
Further, whatever ding Theriot experienced last night will increase the odds of a Miles sighting.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
I'll wager a good amount he'll start tonight
Miles was used far too often before he got hurt.
WanderingWanderer - August 5, 2009
Lou has been trying to give Riot a day off
but other people keep getting hurt. It wouldn’t surprise me if he sits Riot tonight and plays Miles at short.
The good thing is Harden is a strikeout pitcher and doesn’t use his defense as much.
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
I was thinking the same thing
Mapmaker - August 5, 2009
Very, very high
Fukudome, Theriot (hoping his forearm is doing good), Lee, Ramirez, Bradley, Soriano, Miles, Hill, Z.
chilango2 - August 5, 2009
At least Fontenot and Baker are capable of running into
a solid extra base hit every once in a while. Miles up with Soriano and Bradley on base would be rally suicide by Lou.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
NOOOOOOO!
Please, no…………
blackhawk24 - August 5, 2009
Can Miles close? ;)
bobby h - August 5, 2009
the doors on his way out?
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
Sure
after we drop 30 on the Reds… Miles can get a save by pitching the last 3 innings
Allie - August 5, 2009
Deceptively low release point...
…tricky pitches
bobby h - August 5, 2009
the book on his ML career?
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
Career Pitching Stats in 3.0 IP
6.00 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, 1 HR, 0 BB, 0 SO, 1 HBP, .375 BAA
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
Wow, i had no idea he'd ever actually pitched...
…and oddly, that’s a step up from his batting line.
bobby h - August 5, 2009
Maybe that's what Hendry was looking at when he signed him.
daver - August 5, 2009
He's not a LHP, though.
So we can’t use him there, either.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
In that case...
…can we just make him the never-used 7th man in the Bullpen then?
bobby h - August 5, 2009
That position is already filled.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
2-0 Mets in the first
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
Mets lead 2-0 in the second, and have second and third with one out.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Nelson Figueroa ... TRIPLES?!?
Mets 4, Cardinals 0
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Don't worry I'm sure they will find some way to screw it up
nji232 - August 5, 2009
They really did last night.
But they just extended the lead to 5-0.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
specially if they're already into the bullpen
what happened to Niese?
tony412 - August 5, 2009
Leg injury.
I was going to say what they are saying at MLB.Com, but the website is not giving me anything right now.
Gameday also crashed.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
"John Niese collapsed in the second with a leg injury."
Would be nice if MLB.Com started working again … I’d know more, for instance.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Another injury,
Mets just really can’t catch a break can they.
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
We can send Heilman back to them
Along with a deep dish pizza, a Mr. Beef sammich and a case of Goose Island.
chilango2 - August 5, 2009
I don't know if I want to give up the Goose Island.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
You have to sweeten it somehow
Pizza and Italian beef can’t possibly be enough.
chilango2 - August 5, 2009
We could send The Region.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
Hey!
Allie - August 5, 2009
You'll love New York.
No, no, The Region can stay – it just has to act like it’s part of Indiana from now on.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
Act like you want us as part of the state
and we might.
Allie - August 5, 2009
I like the Region. Lots of friendly people up there
And the Dunes are great.
I think the Region gets a bad rap down here, personally, but hearing things like “I’m from the suburbs of Chicago.” “Oh, really, what suburb?” “Umm, Valparaiso.” doesn’t help.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
Most of feel closer to Chicago than
anything else. We get all the benefits without the taxes, usually.
We only get Chicago stations. I can’t even FIND a current Indy Star anywhere.
And the only time we’re claimed by IN is when someoen is running for office.
Allie - August 5, 2009
Exactly.
Hell, we’re even in a different time zone than the rest of Indiana.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
I can understand that.
Sometimes, given the choice between Chicago and Indy, I’d take Chicago, too.
From my perspective, I know it seems silly when someone from Indiana tries to claim Chicago as their own, but I get what you’re saying.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
I usually just say
“I’m from the LAND part of Chicagoland”
Allie - August 5, 2009
As opposed to the water part, which would be Lake Michigan, I guess. :-P
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
As in I'm blub blub blup part blub Chicablub
eths - August 5, 2009
That's an excellent explanation.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
Sounded like he pulled something when stretching for a throw at 1st.
Then when he went to throw a warmup pitch, he fell on the mound.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
Much as I hate the Mets, I almost feel sorry for them.
Almost.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
nah...
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
Few things...
-Didn’t like Kruk’s (his suit was worse than his idea) idea at all of moving Dempster to closer. Right now the starting rotation is the strength of this team, why weaken an area to try to improve elsewhere?
-Why not put Marshall in the 8th and let him finish the game last night? There was a 6 run lead when he came in.
-Pujols is a machine, when he knows he is going to get good pitches to hit, it is unfair.
slocs55 - August 5, 2009
Agree with you about Marshall.
I was a little confused when Lou played “Musical Bullpen” yet again.
He didn’t need to waste Guzman last night.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Or, let Stevens throw the 9th.
Isn’t that why we have a 12-man pitching staff? So one of them can throw with a 5-run lead in the 9th?
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
LOL @ "Musical Bullpen"
the perfect description!
CaliCub - August 5, 2009
Mets have
bases loaded, two outs.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
The Cardinals just yanked Kyle Lohse after he walked the bases loaded.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Good
After the crap Wellemeyer and Lohse pulled out of their butts last season, its good to know they are back to being what they are- bad pitchers.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
and Pagan
hits a dribbler back to the mound. Three outs.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Angel Pagan.....
He only got on base twice because Ankiel dropped what would have been a sac fly.
His other base hit was a single.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
He's channeling his Cubness.
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
Some things never change.
You can take the player out of the Cubs, but you can’t take the Cubness out of the player.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
The problem with that theory is Pagan
is a product of the Mets farm system.
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
Figeuroa
hits Ludwick with a pitch.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Yadier Molina hits into a double play.
Going to bottom 4 in New York, the Mets lead St. Louis 5-0.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Cardinals
going through another pitching change. Both sides are blowing their bullpen. It’s the bottom of the 4th, and the Cards are on their third, Mets on their second.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Cards threatening
with runners on 2nd, 3rd with 2 outs.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
and Pujols
to the plate.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
the unintentional intentional walk is next
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
WALK HIM!
Allie - August 5, 2009
They did.
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
the plunk is more efficient
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
Pujols
HBP! LOL!
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Bases loaded
Holliday to the plate
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
♪ ♫ Holliday! Is gonna K! ♪ ♫
daver - August 5, 2009
well done
young padawan.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
OH YEAH! I CALLED IT! I CALLED IT!
daver - August 5, 2009
I guess he couldn't hit .650 forever.
Devin B - August 5, 2009
So, if he hit a HR you would Blou and vanish for day?
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Yes.
Either that or I’d tell someone to pound sand. It’s a toss up, really.
daver - August 5, 2009
WTF?
I just got an email inviting me to join the AARP! I’m 38!!!!!
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
I get mailers from them all the time.
And I’m 27.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
38 going on 72 :)
Fishbone2 - August 5, 2009
Their numbers are dwindling...
so they must have lowered the qualifying age a bit.
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
not true
the cohort at 45-50 entering is much larger than the rate at which people are “dropping out”
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
And God help us...
because of it. I’m so very excited to be financing all of their retirement benefits….
CubsWin!Oregon - August 5, 2009
I joined...but I am 52
(feel like I am 72 on many mornings)
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
You should go ahead and join...
Discounted movie tickets and all-you-can-eat buffet at Sizzler if you get there before 5.
hokie316 - August 5, 2009
They must have gotten 38 confused with some other age.
Possibly 83?
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Maybe they read your posts and assumed you were some old fogey. :)
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
hah
Get offa my lawn!
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Maybe it's for the Aaron Association of Rotten Players
Aaron Miles, Founder and CEO…
ballhawk - August 5, 2009
and that is why you walk Albert Pujols
at all times
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Holliday
Ks. Three outs, 3 LOB again.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
like a Macy's Day blimp, he will come back to earth
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
This is
the stupidest thing I have ever seen somebody do.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/8/5/978424/vote-message-on-2008-cubs-page
CalCalender - August 5, 2009
LOL
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
why
on earth would anyone waste 65 dollars to write snarky comments on a team from a year ago that was better than the team you root for?
CalCalender - August 5, 2009
because you think it will help you score with the chicks
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
unfortunately, the only chicks he scores with are the small fury ones that
crap all over the place
LAcarl519 - August 5, 2009
Puerto Rico and Guam, haha! Well done, swl
BleedsbluinMI - August 5, 2009
Being an idiot may play a significant role in the decision.
daver - August 5, 2009
He's a Cardinals fan.
That should explain it all.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Finally - I can put a name with the face... ;-)
ballhawk - August 5, 2009
LOL
Allie - August 5, 2009
"I just spent $65 and I still had murney left over to buy these signs!"
daver - August 5, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
took me a second
but I see what you did there, very nice
nji232 - August 5, 2009
No photoshop necessary.
Google image search of “get a brain morans” brings this up in many places.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
look in the back
you will see an old friend who may or may not have the same name as our beloved right fielder
nji232 - August 5, 2009
no no
look more carefully.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
too subtle for me. The original photo has the guy in a dark shirt there too, missed that
by him being a moran, CUBS WIN!
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
That's a classic.
daver - August 5, 2009
I finally saw it, it took me forever.
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
I think his "plan" goes something like:
1. Annoy Cubs fans
2. ???
3. PROFIT!
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
lol
rec’d
CalCalender - August 5, 2009
you knows whats great about Cardinal fans
They try and pretend like they are really proud of all their championships and history, while mocking the Cubs for never winning, yet when it comes down to it they care more about us than they do about their own success.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
They really are the greatest fans in baseball
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
He spent $65 just to amuse himself and sort of mildly annoy a few Cubs fans?
I can think of worse ways to spend that money… but not many.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
I can't.
It goes to show just how “great” the Cardinals fans are.
Forget the fact that:
(A), we finished way ahead of them in the final standings,
(B), we clinched the division against them,
©, we scored the most runs and won the most games of anyone in the NL, or
(D), we made the playoffs while they didn’t.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
the best fans in baseball don't care about the facts
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Cardinals fans ...
Or Red Sox fans … sounds like both.
Like their team regardless of the facts other teams’ fans say, even if the facts are completely true.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
I liked the comment a buddy
made to me around 2000 and 2001—the Red Sox are about as much a rival to the Yankess as a nail is to a hammer—26 titles to 1.
Obviously recent times have changed that a bit. But the point is stil the same.
socalbob - August 5, 2009
hmmm,worse ways to spend money...
Giving Clutche $65 to buy a jersey from Tim.
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
HAHAHAHAHA!
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
well
at least Tim would get his money that way…
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Actually no
Really stupid would be to ask for positive comments about the birdies. Or is maybe a fan of the other kind of cardinal?
eths - August 5, 2009
His Holiness La Russa?
eths - August 5, 2009
eths - August 5, 2009
Your comment probably works best:
“You paid money to do this?”
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
I wish I could comment over there, but I think I'm less offended that the guy wants to
punk Cub fans and pretty steamed he is desecrating BR to do it.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
I wanted to suggest:
Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum. Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo et in terra. Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo.
But they did not want me: Your Viva El Birdos membership will be fully active in 2 days, on Aug 7, 2009 8:23 PM CEST. Until then, you won’t be able to post comments, FanPosts, or FanShots.
sniffle sniffle sniffle whine sniffle sniffle
eths - August 5, 2009
dare I ask what that means?
nji232 - August 5, 2009
It's the Our Father
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
Completely in Latin.
You, eths, are the true foreign language master on this site!
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Oldhay onay ustjay a ottncay ickenpay econdsay heretay istermay!
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
Pig-Latin
Very nice!
How long is one of those seconds?
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
I got two languages German and Latin apart from a smattering of American & English
I grew up on the north side and have been in Germany since 1977.
eths - August 5, 2009
Y yo que guey? Que ojete de tu parte.
chilango2 - August 5, 2009
Yo hablo espanol tambien,
Pero no hablo Latin.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Sorry about that.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
You know I was joking, right?
chilango2 - August 5, 2009
I had to go to work ... didn't have time to translate it in my head.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
I hope the irony is obvious... Other wise it is the Lord's Prayer in Latin
Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
eths - August 5, 2009
He seems to have forgotten the last part
“As we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.”
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
nice
of course St. Louis has probably never heard of latin
nji232 - August 5, 2009
Isn't Pujols latin?
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
latino
bobby h - August 5, 2009
Deliver us from weevils?
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Always choose the lesser of two weevils!
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
The Catholic Church ripped off "Our Ted's Prayer"! Heathens! (man, is THIS former altar boy goin' to hell...)
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/7/6/939219/our-teds-prayer
Zeke - August 5, 2009
nice...
eths - August 5, 2009
In nomine patri, et filii, et spiritus sancti.
Amen.
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
most of my latin is religious too
hahaha, but we should pray for our Cubbies in all languages
tony412 - August 5, 2009
Benni selli alla hiss dominoes...
amen…
Zeke - August 6, 2009
Mets do nothing
5-0, on to the 6th.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
concerns with Guzman?
He doesn’t seem nearly as sharp post-injury
4 HR allowed (most on pitches right down the middle) in 13+ innings post injury
2 HR allowed in 32+ innings before the injury.
His stuff still looks high caliber but his location has been way off as far as locating pitches within the strike zone. You really have to give Rothschild credit for the starting pitchers but at some point he’s got to earn some keep and come up with solutions on why Marmol and Guzman’s mechanics and location are regressing.
BeltwayCubsFan - August 5, 2009
Some of Guzman's problems could have to do with fatigue
He hasn’t thrown this much since 2006. He might need a couple days to rest the arm.
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
I am not a Rothschild fan
and will acknowledge he is respected. But I see too many issues with Cubs pitchers commanding the fastball and it doesn’t seem to get any better. Our guys are too wild with the fastball—Marmol, Guzman, Dempster, Z, Heilman, Harden, Marshall—all these guys struggle with consistent command.
Maybe he is over-coaching these guys or just failing to come up with solutions. Paralysis by Analysis perhaps?
I’m not sure, but i owuld liek to see our pitchers throw quality fastball strikes.
What do you see in Guzman’s mechanics—they look pretty flawless to me? His 2-seamer is getting away from him as he has fallen in love with his cutter—now resembling a mini-slider.
socalbob - August 5, 2009
Greene
just pinch hit for the Cards pitcher, which means they’re about to have their FOURTH pitcher of the day come out.
Greene struck out, too.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Unfortunately, they've got the day off tomorrow.
So if they wear out their bullpen today, they’ll have a day of rest before facing the PIRATES.
mykalmorgan - August 5, 2009
Im not sure there is anything better than waking up at 9am to baseball/
especially when its the cardinals losing.
AzCubfan24 - August 5, 2009
A hearty "aloha" to you!
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
Arizona actually:)
AzCubfan24 - August 5, 2009
Ah, well it's 9 AM in Hawaii right now...
that’s what I thought you meant.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
oh no, sorry my bad. Had to wake up a bit before jumping on here.
AzCubfan24 - August 5, 2009
Thompson in to pitch
for the cards, Figeueroa out for the Mets.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
So apparently the reason Lohse struggled today
was that his cousin passed away from brain injuries today.
nji232 - August 5, 2009
forgot link
here is the sad story
nji232 - August 5, 2009
19 years old, just tragic
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
That's really sad.
I just lost several family members for various reasons over the past few months … I feel sorry for him and his family.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Wow, that is sad.
daver - August 5, 2009
Angel Pagan with a run scoring triple
6-0 Mets.
mykalmorgan - August 5, 2009
Pagan RBI triple
6-0
AzCubfan24 - August 5, 2009
Alex Cora bloop single to score Pagan
7-0 Mets. C’mon, even their bullpen can’t blow it again, right? RIGHT?
mykalmorgan - August 5, 2009
man I hope not
AzCubfan24 - August 5, 2009
they're still
only two Pujols grand slams away from losing.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Sheff doubles with 2 out.
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
wait...wut?
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
Sheff lines one to the gap in left-center...
and pulls up lame at first…..he’s out for a Pinch Runner.
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
I'm pretty sure just putting on a Mets uniform...
…causes an anvil to fall on your head at this point.
daver - August 5, 2009
The Mets are a pathetic disappointment...
hopefully the Cubs can sweep them when they come to town in a few weeks.
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
Well, they've had just a ridiculous number of injuries.
But, uh, yeah – I could definitely go for that sweep. No mercy!
daver - August 5, 2009
How is a drive to the wall a single?
There’s also somebody hurt.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Jon Niese, now Gary Sheffield.
Both left today’s game due to injuries.
As if the Mets needed any help with players hurt.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Maybe they're so needy, they'll trade for Miles?
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Actually... it's a possibility.
Their ONLY middle infielders right now are Alex Cora and Angel Berroa.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
I'm aware, he says with hope.
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Please let Jim Hendry be on the phone right now...
….Please let Jim Hendry be on the phone right now….Please let Jim Hendry be on the phone right now…Please let Jim Hendry be on the phone right now…Please let Jim Hendry be on the phone right now…
daver - August 5, 2009
I can hear it now -
Jim – “Uh, hey Omar, we’ll trade you our really valuable bacup middle IF”
Omar – “Oh man Jim, how much do I have to give up for him?”
Jim – “We’d love that David Wright guy, but would settle for that one legged catcher you have down in rookie ball”
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Sadly, that one-legged catcher started the '09 season with two legs.
daver - August 5, 2009
Pretty soon...
…the only way the Mets will be able to field a team will be to sew together the healthy body parts of various injured players, a la Frankenstein’s monster.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
I thought
they already TRADED for Gary Sheffield?
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Why would you have to ask for that?
I’d take a bag of used baseballs.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Yes, but remember, we're talking about OMAR MINAYA here.
The guy who, not that long ago, traded Ryan Church for Jeff Francouer. You might as well ask for something semi-valuable – he could actually be dumb enough to say yes.
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
It's like selling used cars
You have to at least pretend like there’s value there…
I traded my last Aaron Miles for Beltran level, but since I like your look, I’m willing to give him to you for that there sack of peanut shells… This deal won’t last forever though…
bobby h - August 5, 2009
Exactly
N Oakley - August 5, 2009
Don't forget to mention he's played the OF in the past...
“He’s a super utility man, excelling wherever you put him on the field.”
Bill Potter - August 5, 2009
but wait there's more
he can pitch too!!
dtc0405 - August 5, 2009
Oh, and don't forget...
…he plays for a FIRST PLACE team, so he must be good!
hip2bsquare - August 5, 2009
We can hope.
It would also upgrade the Cubs, no matter who they sent to us.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
singled
and then is replaced by a pinch runner. hmm.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
three outs
7-0 Mets. On to the 7th.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Cards do nothing.
7-0 Mets, mid 7.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Mets do nothing
etcetera etcetera
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
I really don't care what either team does,
As long as the Mets and Cubs both win today.
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Fifth pitcher for the Cards
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Pagan
racking up the RBIs. 2-run home run makes it 10-0.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
9-0
desmoCubbie - August 5, 2009
oh, you're right.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
Holy Cow..!
Sole possession of first place tonight…I hope.
jdb-44 - August 5, 2009
half game in front .... maybe?
lexmarklover - August 5, 2009
So.
Are we rooting for Houston or San Fran?
Devin B - August 5, 2009
tough question .... probably houston
lexmarklover - August 5, 2009
Houston.
desmoCubbie - August 5, 2009
Chicago
Allie - August 5, 2009
Alex Cora just struck out.
He’s the first Met to strike out today.
mykalmorgan - August 5, 2009
End of the 8th
9-0 Mets.
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
I dunno about you,
but I thoroughly enjoy watching the Mets collpase. That’s one grudge (that happened well before I was born but told about it by my grandfather) that I don’t mind keeping.
dtpollitt - August 5, 2009 via mobile
Same here
Allie - August 5, 2009
Thirded.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
GAME OVAH!
Cardinals lose! FIRST PLACE!
drewishdrewid - August 5, 2009
woohoo, hope we can say that tomorrow too.
KaliCub - August 5, 2009
We will
One way or the other.
DamonBerryhillsMitt - August 5, 2009
ALONE in 1st Place. We were already IN 1st Place.
Me likey…
Zeke - August 5, 2009
big game tonight.
it would be really nice to pick up a victory before the colorado series. i also like that the backend of the cardinals’ rotation is coming back to earth.
buckmulligan - August 5, 2009
So let’s win tonight and make it a full game up in first!
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Also,
I want to see me some Bill Murray tonight!
Vermont Cubs Fan - August 5, 2009
Yes! Way to go Mets! Too bad you f'd royaly last night
Time to see if Aaron Miles clears waivers:)
SackMan - August 5, 2009
If he doesn't clear...
…I think 2/3 of this city is ready to pack his bags for him and deliver him to whatever team was dumb enough to claim him (and his salary).
bobby h - August 5, 2009
A tad OT, I know, but they ever announce a make-up date...
…for that rained-out Tuesday, June 16th game? :)
malicedoom - August 5, 2009
Thursday, September 3 at 1:20.
Single seats are available.
Al Yellon - August 5, 2009
Sweet. Thanks, Al!
malicedoom - August 5, 2009
I have a ticket in the Terrace Reserved Aisle 216, Row 10
if you are interested. I’m not able to go to the game (bummer for me) and was going to just get a refund. Let me know if you wanted to buy it instead, face value is $45.00. No fees, I stood in the Feb. cold to buy it the old fashioned way, at the ticket window.
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
Miles activated
Stevens optioned
Allie - August 5, 2009
That surprises me, I thought Shark would be optioned.
cowsarecool220 - August 5, 2009
So we're basically bringing up a useless player...
for a player that was never used. We break even?
santoswoodenlegs - August 5, 2009
No, the 12th man in the Cub bullpen takes the Hippocratic Oath
If Piniella never lets you see the mound, you’re guaranteed to do no harm.
Shanghai Badger - August 5, 2009
Now, like I said before...
We can just make Miles the (never used) 12th pitcher, rather than pretending he’s a middle infielder.
That way he’ll never see the field…
bobby h - August 5, 2009
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