And after all was said and done, it wasn't the grand slam by Jody Gerut that did the Cubs in, although that did give the Brewers a lead today that they never relinquished.
No, it was the little things, and Randy Wells acknowleged so in his postgame remarks: giving up a two-out hit to a pitcher who came into the game with a .100 (3-for-30) season batting average. That hit prolonged an inning that should have been over; Wells had retired the first two batters in the fourth inning easily, and seemed to have settled down after a shaky first inning. But then the #8 hitter, Alcides Escobar, walked; Bush singled; Wells, rattled, walked Felipe Lopez, and then Gerut hit the slam, only the second of his career.
It was a thrill for Gerut, I suppose; he was the 1995 Illinois High School Player of the Year for Willowbrook High, and he's struggled this year, coming into the game hitting only .215. For Wells, it was the most walks (five) he had given up in any one game this season (one intentional), and he also admitted in the postgame news conference that he had stopped doing what had made him successful earlier, attacking the zone, and was trying to nibble. Why pitchers do this, I have no idea; if something's working for you, why change it?
The Cubs lost to the Brewers 7-4, splitting a series they should have won and realistically needed to sweep to have any chance to get back into the thick of postseason contention. Now, nine games out of first place and seven games back in the wild-card race, they are in 2007 Phillies territory (the Phils made up 7.5 games in 17, but they had no one else in front of them), and I can see the numbers as well as anyone else can. It'd take a major miracle now.
The Cubs did do their best to get back into the game. Micah Hoffpauir pinch-hit for Wells in the bottom of the fourth and doubled in a pair of runs, making it 5-4 and at least giving the Cubs a shot at it, and Sean Marshall and Aaron Heilman threw scoreless innings. But the Cubs couldn't do more than two more baserunners the rest of the game, on a single by Milton Bradley and a walk to Mike Fontenot in the sixth. That put two runners on with one out, but Koyie Hill struck out and Aramis Ramirez, pinch-hitting on a day he was otherwise off, hit a ball that might have gone out had the wind not been blowing in strongly from right field.
You all know how I feel about Milton Bradley. But today really was the last straw for me. Bradley took himself out of the game after that sixth-inning single, claiming knee problems. He didn't seem to have any trouble in the field or any trouble running to first base. Maybe it's legitimate, but honestly, isn't this enough of this act? I've heard the same stories about Bradley when he was with Oakland -- taking himself out of games on a moment's notice on the flimsiest of excuses.
Enough. Bradley was a bad fit in Chicago from the beginning; his production, after taking a bit of an upswing in August, has collapsed again in September (.196/.226/.275 with zero walks in 53 plate appearances). Enough. If I were Lou, I'd bench him for the rest of the season. He's got to be traded -- to anyone who will take him. Go ahead, flame away, but that's how I feel. I'll talk after the season is over about how I think the Cubs should go about getting that LH bat they were looking for last offseason -- this wasn't the right way to do it.
Amusing: watching Prince Fielder pound around the bases for a triple after his ball got beyond Bradley to the wall in the fifth. It was, believe it or not, his third triple of the season. He may seem overweight and out of shape, but Fielder is an excellent athlete who runs the bases well. However, the Cubs might have to have Roger Bossard redo the field after the season due to that run. Fielder also was held RBI-less in the series; he's currently tied with current Houston manager Cecil Cooper for the Brewers' season record with 126 RBI. The Brewers are playing the Astros this weekend, so Cooper can see his record broken in person.
It's been a frustrating season; with four of the seven games remaining to be played in October, this might have been the last bit of nice summer-like weather we'll have for baseball on the north side of Chicago in 2009. It may not mean anything, but I do hope the Cubs can at least win the series in St. Louis this weekend. The Cubs are 5-8 vs. the Cardinals this year; if they can somehow sweep (yeah, I know, a pipedream), they'd even it up. That's a goal they can shoot for.
0 recs | 814 comments
I'm glad I was in meetings all day
and didn’t have to suffer through this with the rest of the faithful.
shifafaontheside - September 17, 2009
Who is the left handed bat you seek Al?
That is attainable for next season, I am not aware of who is going to be in the next free agent class ? Who in their right mind would even take Milty, the Cubs would have to eat almost his entire contract. I am not sure if the Nationals would take him.
tripdenten - September 17, 2009
Don't know yet.
Would have to look through free agent lists. Also, do not discount the possibility of dumping a contract on someone, then using the money to make a deal for another contract.
Eat the contract? If necessary, yes. But I think they’ll find a taker without having to eat the whole thing.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
Maybe Texas?
They might be interested in getting him back, he played well there.
tripdenten - September 17, 2009
They let him walk for nothing after a great year...
Now they’re going to give up something to get him back, after having a terrible season?
This isn’t the first time I’ve seen Texas proposed on here, and it probably won’t be the last. It’s incredibly illogical to suggest that they might want him though. I wish people would stop with this.
(Sorry for the probably overly aggressive tone)
kanderber - September 17, 2009
the rangers wanted to resign him
but bradley went to chicago because jimbo offered more dough
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
First I've heard of that...
Got a link to that?
kanderber - September 17, 2009
rangers offered arbitration but bradders refused
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/milton-bradley.html
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
did they offer him arbitration because they wanted him back?
or because they wanted the draft picks, and knew he would refuse the arbitration?
Illicat - September 17, 2009
by everything i read
he was really liked in texas and the players wanted him back
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
Nice tone indeed
It is not a bad idea, so maybe you would like to rethink your stance, since you know so much about baseball, the Rangers, and Milton.
For the record, they did want to resign him, but could not afford him!!!
tripdenten - September 18, 2009
Well, three factors to look for in a trade partner...
Off the top of my head, that sure sounds like Oakland. I’ve lost track of Milton’s travails – was Oakland a Paradise Lost for him or did he burn bridges there?
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
I think Oakland's biggest problem with Milton
was his injuries, he was very productive there when he played.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
But aren't you overlooking
The fact that Billy Beane doesn’t pay big money, even medium-big?
vonde6 - September 17, 2009
nope
At this point, I’m not in favor of moving Bradley, but if Hendry is, your description of Beane is something I think he’s counting on.
Yes, Beane doesn’t like to pay big/medium-big money. Consistent with that thinking, I bet he can’t resist a sale. Close-out. Markdown. Priced to move. etc. etc. Add to this the fact that Bradley’s contract is relatively reasonable to begin with, then I’m guessing if Hendry eats a million or two, I think Beane would kick the tires.
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
+1
Your reasoning is good. I read Moneyball, and it is not all about OBP, it is about finding the next undervalued thing. And you are right, that could well be Milton Bradley.
I am not in favor of a move with Bradley, especially one that undervalues him, either. The slash/burn/dismantle crowd could leave us in a bad state overreacting to this train wreck of a season.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
'Overreaction' is the truth
I think some Cubs fans, perhaps a lot of them, don’t realize teams underachieve and overachieve in baseball all the time.
Not Bruce Froemming - September 18, 2009
Sox would be nice:)
It would be fun to watch what Ozzie would have to say about him. The contract we’d have to eat would be worth it for entertainment value alone.
shifafaontheside - September 17, 2009
I was travelling from Knoxville to DC for most of the day.
Saw bits and pieces when I was at the airport. Milton Bradley should never have been on this team.
Is it wrong to say I can’t recognize this team from last year (except for Lou who is taking more naps and showing more disinterest.
zevkalman - September 17, 2009
In Bradley's defense - well, maybe in his defense...
Didn’t he get HBP earlier in the game? If it was anywhere near his knee, that might be a possible/plausible explanation. Sometimes the pain/injury isn’t immediate, but after a little swelling, yada yada…
However, if the HBP was somewhere else, then off with his head!!!
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
Yes, L&B said
his calf area and they also said he was lumbering running to get on base too.
sue369 - September 17, 2009
From Twitter...
Via CarrieMuskat
I interpret this to fly in the face of Al’s “taking himself out of games on a moment’s notice on the flimsiest of excuses” analysis, especially considering he’d been hit by a pitch earlier in the game…
But i suppose defending him at this point is a lost cause. Everyone has been comfortable making him (and the loss of DeRo) the scapegoat for this disappointing season since day one, so… so be it. I guess we’d rather ship off a guy (while likely getting little in return and being forced to pay him anyways once he’s gone) who has, for the most part, been on the field, not causing troubles, and getting on base. Why everyone would like to focus their energy on this rather than address this teams real issues, who knows.
Whatever.
AndrewJStone - September 17, 2009
FACTS
GET HIM or just ignore him. Probably the latter.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Al and facts
are not on speaking terms lately.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Lately?
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Well said AJS.
sue369 - September 18, 2009
+1
It only takes a dig here and a jab there to force an over-reaction, and the MB haters have been tweaking the nerves all season. If your impulse is to defend him, it has to be a pretty strong impulse to keep you going.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
Yeah, but then Al would be wrong.
And we couldn’t all be mad at Milton Bradley, which is obviously the only rational thing to do.
Keith - September 17, 2009
I can't be mad at Milton?
But I wanna! Damn you and your Earth logic, ballhawk!
Clutch16 - September 17, 2009
Hopefully
this means more playing time for our friend, Mr. Fox!
CubFanSince1970 - September 17, 2009
if he hasn't gotten playing time yet
I wouldn’t count on this doing it.
Illicat - September 17, 2009
You know who hasn't been seen?
Any of the folks who claimed Bradley was an underappreciated salesman, or who claimed that their slide rules showed Bradley was due to come back.
Worf - September 17, 2009
blame the racist fans
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
Yep, I guess that was it
Worf - September 17, 2009
I've seen them around
and they still defend him. Oh well, to each his own.
chilango2 - September 17, 2009
I'll al least chime in, since I'm a big Bradley fan.
I still want Bradley back, but I realize that the pitchforks are out in the media and in the stands.
I hope calmer heads will prevail, but I’m just a guy watching the team and Hendry will have to gauge how the team is made up for next year.
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
Respekt
chilango2 - September 17, 2009
They're all resigned to the fact that the haters have won, and Bradley will be traded in the offseason
Great work, Worf et al. Great work.
/Slow clap
berselius - September 17, 2009
Rec'd, +1, LSA
I read every word.
Keith - September 17, 2009
Rec'd as well
I am resigned to the fact that words in his defense are like spitting into the wind.
I don’t see him as a poison that is bringing down the team, and I think that paying someone to take him is a huge over-reaction. Reasonable trades should always be explored, for him and for anyone else, if it will give us a better team.
vonde6 - September 17, 2009
Same here
Just because you don’t like a guy personally doesn’t mean you can’t like what he does professionally.
Not Bruce Froemming - September 17, 2009
Yes it does.
So much so it means you ignore facts all together.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
It can mean that to some NBF
But you definitely have the right approach here.
Despite the fact that I think TLR is a huge tool, I think he’s one of the better managers in baseball. His snarling sycophant Bissinger: not so much.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Nail, meet head
TLR is a first-class jerk, but the guy is a hell of a manager.
Not Bruce Froemming - September 17, 2009
Yeah but it is Dave Duncan that makes me weak in the knees.
dtpollitt - September 17, 2009
Read this week's SI. Long article on Duncan.
Zeke - September 18, 2009
those people
Are the same ones that claim Soriano is one of the best defensive LFs in the game. Must be nice to live life blinded by the flowers in the grass.
VillanuevaExperience - September 17, 2009 via mobile
broad brush much?
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
Alfonso Soriano's UZR, 2007-2009:
2007: 18.4 (very very good)
2008: 2.5 (above average)
2009: -11.5 (very poor, but he’s been playing on a bum knee the entire year)
Alfonso Soriano’s arm more than makes up for his poor fielding.
Keith - September 17, 2009
you forgot
to quote his errors the last two years. Blame his knee all you want, he’s not a good outfielder. Don’t get me started on all the balls he jogs to.
VillanuevaExperience - September 17, 2009 via mobile
I didn't "forget".
Errors are to the evaluation of a player’s defense as W/L record is to the evaluation of a pitcher’s ability. I’d rather use more accurate metrics.
Keith - September 17, 2009
so
you’re saying all the flyballs he drops don’t count? Sorry I don’t see the correlation between errors (which he directly controls) and won loss record. Maybe you have another stat to make more excuses for him.
VillanuevaExperience - September 17, 2009 via mobile
Do you have a stat that counts the number of balls he does get to, doesn't drop, and runners he throws out relative to other LFers
I’m all ears
berselius - September 17, 2009
try
Using your eyes. To quote Bob Brenly, you can throw a dart and find yourself a better defensive outfielder.
VillanuevaExperience - September 17, 2009 via mobile
My dart hit Chris Duncan
nji232 - September 17, 2009
Mine stuck in Dunn's butt.
santoswoodenlegs - September 17, 2009
at least
Dunn doesn’t disappear for months at time at the plate
VillanuevaExperience - September 17, 2009 via mobile
he will next month, just like us.
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
just like Soriano
does in the playoffs
VillanuevaExperience - September 17, 2009 via mobile
Small sample size.
Any player can suck for a three game stretch. Well, except Albert Pujols.
Keith - September 17, 2009
I've seen Pujols suck for a series
once…
ak123 - September 17, 2009
way to change the argument
so weak
socalbob - September 18, 2009
You can throw a dart
But Alfonso Soriano can throw it better.
Keith - September 17, 2009
Joey Gathright can jump over a (Dodge) dart...
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
I wish Miles couldn't jump over a baseline!
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
That's what UZR is for.
It’s not perfect, and for a position like LF that doesn’t get a whole lot of chances there’s a lot of uncertainty in single-season numbers. But that’s essentially what it tries to do.
aldimond - September 17, 2009
Milton Bradley has been actually playing to his career norms, power aside.
Why his power disappeared, I have no idea. Part of it could be his 19.9% LD rate, which is below his career norm. All of his peripherals are around his career averages, so I’m as baffled as anywhere else. But don’t act like Bradley hasn’t for the most part started playing better. If you think that he’s still playing as poorly as he was in the beginning of the season then you’re full of crap, I’m sorry.
Keith - September 17, 2009
Keith you're forgetting something
2 weeks of recent performance > the rest of his career
berselius - September 17, 2009
Oh, right.
I guess I was too caught up in my ZORPDORP9000 to realize that.
Keith - September 17, 2009
You gotta use the R+RBI meter on your slide rule
berselius - September 17, 2009
Does he tape his fingers?
That’s all that matters.
sitrick3 - September 18, 2009
Milton has still earned his salary for this season
I still want Milton back next season, I think it is hard for any free agent adjust to the Chicago environment and for some reason Milton has been made the face of failure here. Yes I do think his race has something to do with that, but I won’t get into that here.
The thing is almost all Milton supporters understand that he will be on a new team next season and that is a damn shame. It signals an organization listening to idiot fans who don’t know how to properly vent their frustrations about a disappointing team. Milton Bradley isn’t the problem, team chemistry isn’t the problem, people claim Z is a cancer yet he’s been on 3 Cubs playoff teams.
I wish Milton the best of luck on his new team, I look forward to the fanposts of his production next season and the hand wringing over his departure, I look forward to the Cubs giving away a productive right fielder for free while paying his salary. Trading Bradley does nothing but give you Micah Hoffpauir in right next season or Sam Fuld in center. I can hardly wait.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
I hope Bradley is traded to the Cardinals
And puts up a .300/.400/.500 line on the season. That would be fun to watch
berselius - September 17, 2009
Honestly, I'm to this point too
People on this board have made me sick enough that I’d love to see him go to a ballpark that appreciates players and destroy the Cubs.
Mike Martin - September 17, 2009
wow. just... wow.
Emelie - September 18, 2009
So you just exposed your loyalties
A true Cubs fan wants badly to be wrong about Bradley and for him to come back next year and win the MVP.
You’d rather see him win elsewhere just to prove a point
Fuck you
Worf - September 17, 2009
So you're not a true Cubs fan then?
berselius - September 17, 2009
And you'd rather see him fail miserably with the Cubs just to prove a point?
The hilarious thing is that berselius or I would get banned for using profanity, but Worf won’t.
Keith - September 17, 2009
I WANT him to succeed
The team is better if he does.
He didn’t. And he proved more trouble than he’s worth.
You want him to succeed somewhere else. That’s all hunky-dory.
I would have preferred he succeed here.
Worf - September 17, 2009
I never wanted Bradley here
I hope the hell he is traded. That being said, I wanted him to do well. Him doing well helps this team win, PERIOD. However the problem is Bradley is a OK player, nothing special. He is more pain than he is worth. Sure spout out the wonderful year last year, other than that Bradley has been hurt for the most part of his ten year career.
This is not about hate not about race, this is about Bradley not being that good of a player and not fitting in here in Chicago.
I take offense to the claims that if your not in Bradleys corner you hate him or call him racist names, that is bullshit.
The guy needs to move on. It was a bad signing.
Grockcubs - September 17, 2009
No one ever said you call him racist names if you aren't in his corner
That’s a strawman at best. The only thing someone will call you for wanting to get rid of a player solely for his personality is an idiot.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
I think the 3 people who do want Milton back next season
and for him to win the MVP are the three who replied to you here. We just know it won’t happen.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
The personal attacks will stop, NOW.
Keith - September 17, 2009
He was referring to the royal 'you'.
santoswoodenlegs - September 17, 2009
The Queen will not stand for this!
berselius - September 17, 2009
Hold on one minute there B, now I’m happy for you, and imma let you finish, but coleslaw references are the best non-sequiters of all time!
sitrick3 - September 18, 2009
true, and it's also the perfect medium....
for wrestling matches.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
or.........
you’ll use more CAPS?
Illicat - September 17, 2009
wooosh
sound of the joke going right over you head.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Whoa!
It’s amazing to hear YOU question someone’s loyalty when you’ve done nothing but shit on this team all year. Only person who has been worse than you is BLou. Assholes like you are why I feel the Cubs don’t deserve to win.
Mike Martin - September 17, 2009
But Worf is at least funny about it
A sense of humor goes a long ways.
Clutch16 - September 17, 2009
Indeed he's hilarious
It’s really, really funny to watch someone drool on themselves.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Like Diet Pepsi out the nose hilarious?
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Yes
and steam coming out of ears hilarious
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
If you're not an Ace pitcher
Aces don’t get angry.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
And neither do good players.
They just waste potential if their angry.
That or they get really tired.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
and or just uppity
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Can't have uppity
No sir-ree.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
That would be something
Though I don’t know that STL would be the greatest place for Milton either. The idea is right though, watching Milton dominate elsewhere next season will be a lot of fun.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
When has Bradley
ever dominated? I give him one All Star year, that was last year. Other than that, fill me in. He is a OK player.
Grockcubs - September 17, 2009
Facts
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=369&position=OF
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
There is some interesting stuff here
His career numbers are good, and his post-season numbers are very good. I wonder how the other RF candidates last season stacked up in these stats? I would eliminate some candidates (Dunn, for sure — sorry Al) as incapable of playing RF in Wrigley.
In spite of the often-quoted left-handedness issue, the higher-order reason why the Cubs felt they had to make changes (and you know this is true) is because of the post-season failures the past two seasons. The Bradley acquisition was part of their attempt at a solution. It looks to me like they had some stats to back them up.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
David Kaplan just creamed his jeans at the thought of that.
Keith - September 17, 2009
Dave Kaplan's reward for all the moves he wants
Is a nice 70 win baseball team that will all play really hard and still suck really bad.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
And that'll make you happy
Worf - September 17, 2009
No, it'll make me unhappy.
But maybe it will show idiot Chicago fans that driving away good players to play rookies who could barely make it out of AAA isn’t such a hot idea.
Keith - September 17, 2009
You don't get it, do you?
It doesn’t matter one god damn what the fans do or say.
If Lee, or Ramirez, or Dempster, or any other leader on this team went to Pinella or Hendry and said, “We’ve GOT to keep this guy,” then he would be here regardless.
Worf - September 17, 2009
I submit the name Mark DeRosa to you
I bet those 3 all would have like to keep him around.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
ahh saint derosa...
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
Something tells me Dempster went to those guys and said
“We GOT to keep DeRosa” Jim hendry then said too bad and traded his ass.
I would hope Lee, Rami, and Dempster would realize that Milton Bradley in right field is more productive than Micah Hoffpauir in right field.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
mark derosa would have fixed ramirez's shoulder
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
with a tear from his eye
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
DeRosa's tears don't have the healing ability
of Ted Lilly’s blood. Close though
nji232 - September 17, 2009
albert pujols' sweat is like derosas tears and lillys blood
mixed into 1 holy solution
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
ahh, I get all those white guys mixed up.
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
If Bradley is traded
Micah won’t see rightfield, Cubs will have someone else.
Grockcubs - September 17, 2009
Pretty much
Good luck finding anywhere from 2.5-4 WAR to put in RF after Milton is traded.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
STATS!
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Oh I'm sorry
Something about passion, chip on shoulder, fiery emotional leader, us against them attitude comma
Prove me wrong.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
it all goes back to one thing
are they better with him in the lineup? does he play the game the right way? I believe we all know the answer is taco.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
I thought it was 42?
Keith - September 17, 2009
Well see it's kind of hard
because you have to take the scrap% into account too.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
I don't think scrap %
is weighted correctly.
Dirt over replacement Jersey is a vastly superior statistic.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Is it adjusted
For player height? Anything over 5’9" can seriously skew the numbers.
And Bat choking-up-ness?
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
I specifically like to put
them into 5 separate buckets when talking about bat-chokedupness. Provides better statistical analysis on who really chokes up on two strikes. Such beautiful poetry in motion as a David Eckstein bat choke can never be repeated.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
There is nothing more beautiful
than watching a guy struggle to throw a routine groundball from 2B to first. GOD THAT IS SCRAPPY.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Is this reflected in DC%?
Clutch16 - September 17, 2009
Perhaps
But you’d really have to look at dirt per plate appearance to get the basic data.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
and amount of WAGs
while running like a gnome to first.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Do you guys know each other?
I am enjoying this.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
We don't have a player leader and that is much of the problem.
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
that would be including yourself, yes?
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
I am
If Pinella and/or Hendry think Bradley can produce, it won’t matter.
Worf - September 17, 2009
Exactly what Keith says
The results won’t make be happy, but seeing the same people who want these AAAA guys complain about them sucking next season will make me happy.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
What a crock of bullsh*t!
What he’s produced is worth about $2 million per. As for wanting to him to succeed elsewhere to stick it to the Cubs, no Cub fan alive wants to see that and anyone who does, isn’t a Cub fan, period.
Itchy - September 18, 2009
That $2 million thing has been roundly disproven here multiple times.
Its not worth my time to dig in to sabermetrics and replacement value and whatever else disprove it again, as it’ll just be roundly debated as inaccurate and conveniently ignored in the next Bradley conversation, but still… get a grip. His production has outpaced his $7 million dollar or so salary this season.
AndrewJStone - September 18, 2009
Please see my comment above.
While i agree with you that he’s not the #5 that the Cubs needed (and that certainly isn’t his fault… blame Hendry & Lou for that misstep), he’s a productive dude who’s been largly injury and trouble free this season. He gets on base, plays defense well enough…
He’s a scapegoat at this point. Anybody looking objectively at this team and acting as if they’d be marching in to the playoffs if only we’d have gotten whoever else everyone was clamoring for instead of Bradly isn’t recognizing the real issues… Sori sucking, Rami hurting, Soto sucking, Miles existing…
There are more important things to take care of in the off season than ditching Bradley, but i’m guessing its all we’ll hear about. Oh well.
AndrewJStone - September 17, 2009
Because why bother?
Al’s made it abundantly clear that personal attacks on Bradley are encouraged from the top down, that trying to look at him and the rest of the team objectively is worthing of front-page mocking, and that question Al’s personal biases against the man is a bannable offense.
There’s been a pretty active campaign here to push out any kind of intelligent discourse on baseball. Most of the best posters have left either out of frustration or simply been banned. Turning on the spigot to Yahoo just tipped the scales well into the cro-magnon direction around here.
Bradley is like watching a perfectly conceived experiment to prove the existence of confirmation bias. Anything he does, no matter how big or small (he took himself out of a game with sore knees for christ’s sake) gets turned into the latest example of what a horrible person he is.
And honestly arguing with people like that is like trying to like arguing with a birther; sure it’s fun at first, but they’ll talk in circles, stringing together one offensively stupid comment after another, to the point that the only reasonable course of action is just to walk away with a little less faith in the human race.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
The best posters = Blou, Clutche?
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
have you read all of this recap? specifically the late-night three ring circus?
I hope those weren’t the “best posters” you were referring to…
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
+1
sue369 - September 18, 2009
+1, too
Well, I complimented those guys on their first run through, above this, because I found it funny. Then I stared amazed at their later musings, as they went on and on…
It looks like they all went to a frat party together and came back to their computers intoxicated and with a mission. I am trying to appreciate it as some kind of bizarre performance art.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
Actually
I believe those guys have all been banned here before and they were trying to see how much fun (trouble) they could stir up.. They were trolling
LT - September 18, 2009
Ever since Lou
called him out in the dugout this summer I’ve considered Badley a POS.
The only way they can get rid of him is trade for another bad contract. But he’s got to go.
Clark Addison - September 17, 2009
Lou took it back, but you won't?
vonde6 - September 17, 2009
The end may not
be official but I can see it from my porch.
sue369 - September 17, 2009
Can you see Russia?
Shanghai Badger - September 17, 2009
thank goodness no
sue369 - September 17, 2009
That'd be our old friend Emelie
chilango2 - September 17, 2009
I think you can from Em's porch...
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
that is a possibility
sue369 - September 17, 2009
you betcha
Emelie - September 18, 2009
When he took himself out...
Did he literally go towards the dugout before the trainer and/or Lou came out? If so, that’s shit. At least wait for someone to come out.
kanderber - September 17, 2009
Yes.
That’s exactly what he did.
I honestly don’t care about zone ratings or any other statistical measures of Milton Bradley. He was a bad choice last winter, and he’s a bad choice to be on the team now.
Adam Dunn’s defense is awful. But his offense would have made up for it. Jim Hendry picked the wrong guy.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
I was going to argue with you about.
but I realized that anything I say will simply be meet with unfalsifiable, psuedo-psychological claims.
you indeed did shut me right up.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
LSA
Rec’d. +1. NAMBLA
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Oooh
The faux-rec. The check-raise of the BCB world. Nicely played.
Clutch16 - September 17, 2009
That's why they send me
Because I am best.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
So you're not going to let FACTS
get in your way of your evaluation of a player. Splendid.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
This is beyond ignorant.
It has already been said that Bradley told Lou that his knee was acting up, most likely when it got hit by a pitch earlier in the game, and that if he got on base, he was going to have to go out because he didn’t feel that he could run on it 100%.
“I honestly don’t care about zone ratings or any other statistical measures of Milton Bradley.” This is just… infuriating. I can’t think of any other way to describe that statement.
Keith - September 17, 2009
C'mon Keith
Facts and Statistics? Spreadsheets don’t play baseball. Prove me wrong.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Shut me right up.
Keith - September 17, 2009
But, how; would one, evaluate:
talent if they couldn’t use sites like fangraphs.comma and, thehardballtimes.comma?
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
RBIs
comma. R+RBI. CERA. Y’know. The non basement dwelling stats.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
R+RBI gives me a raging crotch tent.
Keith - September 17, 2009
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
'You should see what cERA can do!
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
This Season was Sweet Dreams and Flying Machines in Pieces on the Ground
cubsgocubs - September 17, 2009
Perry got fired, and Lous insane....
It took 50 game for Ramirez’s shoulder to mend.
santoswoodenlegs - September 17, 2009
We lost games we should have won when Gegg pitched in the end
But we’ll win next when we get ADAM LIND!!!!!
santoswoodenlegs - September 17, 2009
WOOOHOO
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
I've looked at Lou from both sides now...
From win and lose…and still somehow…It’s Lou’s delusions I recall….
zevkalman - September 17, 2009 via mobile
dont worry
ADAM LIND will save us
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
Sullivan on post game scene
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/09/strange-postgame-scene-in-cubs-clubhouse.html
I see previous was deleted do to copyright issues so here is link.
Lou is LOSING it and I am not happy Fuld had to wear another cartoon superhero costume but I bet he looks good in drag.
Doggie Stalker - September 17, 2009
FYI Second time they have hazed Fuld
In 2007 he had to dress at Batgirl and walk with the other rookies from Great America Park back to the hotel. Technically he is still a Rookie but it seems unfair to make him do this again. That said. first person who gets a photo of him as WONDER WOMAN can have a free bleacher ticket if you want to go to a game on the last weekend.
Doggie Stalker - September 17, 2009
Funniest photo
Had to be Theriot in the cheerleader outfit in 2005 or 2006. I don’t know where photos are anymore but it was hysterical!
ak123 - September 17, 2009
Fonty in blonde
pigtails was pretty funny too. He was acting the part real well too.
sue369 - September 17, 2009
I remember the video
I wonder if its on youtube still. But the Theriot one was hysterical. It was before he grew into the go to guy for interviews. He looked extremely uncomfortable in that outfit.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
Hmmm, I don't know.
Maybe cubs.com in the archives?
sue369 - September 17, 2009
Def. wasn't on mlb.com
It was like WGN.com or one of those site.
ak123 - September 18, 2009
Sullivan was lying
Didn’t you hear?
Worf - September 17, 2009
Why is everything about extremes with you?
I’m just saying that Paul Sullivan has shown the tendency to present biased reporting. It doesn’t mean that he always does, it just means that you should really think about everything that he’s writing because there is a real possibility that it is not true.
Keith - September 17, 2009
It would go right along with the rest of Bradley's bullshit
He’s a loser and needs to go
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
You said you didn't trust a word he said
That means you think he is lying each and every time.
Worf - September 17, 2009
No it doesn't.
First of all, I never actually said that. Second of all, you’re thinking in extremes again. I don’t trust a word he says because he has shown to me that he does not possess the moral diligence to do his job, which is to offer an insider’s perspective of the Cubs team, not to promote one’s agenda. If Bruce Miles or some other equally trustworthy writer in Chicago (all two of them) confirms something that Paul Sullivan has written, then I will believe him.
Keith - September 17, 2009
in other words
you think he’s lying each and every time, unless someone else confirms it.
Illicat - September 17, 2009
It would be a lot easier if he just owned it, wouldn't it?
Worf - September 17, 2009
I never said that.
If you knew someone who constantly lied (and I do know someone like that, actually), would you accept everything they said without a second thought?
Keith - September 17, 2009
Dude, you're talking yourself in circles
you claim you didn’t say you don’t trust him, but you don’t trust him. You can not believe anything he says, that’s fine, but don’t claim that isn’t what you’re saying
Illicat - September 17, 2009
I'm not going to believe anything he says until someone confirms it.
I’m sorry, I misinterpreted what you said. College is obviously destroying my brain.
Keith - September 17, 2009
so what the hell were you arguing about?
you straight up said that’s not what you were saying
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
yeah he apologized too
And said he misinterpreted. So yeah. Mood point now.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
you know
we did this thing in 8th grade where a person falls backwards and the person behind will catch him if he is trust worthy. i say paul sullivan and david kaplan do that by falling backwards off the
searswillis tower. whoever gets caught is the more trustworthy writerjesus christos - September 17, 2009
Who's the other one?
A sophomore from DePaul?
chilango2 - September 17, 2009
If he was lying every time then we'd know what was truth
The problem is people who lie some of the time.
Do you even follow the Cubs? Sullivan has been completely disproved twice this week – once in a story that Harden was being shut down for the season (he isn’t) and once where he claimed that Pinella had benched Bradley (he didn’t).
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
Ummm
FWIW — I just wanted to note that your obsession with Sam Fuld, coupled with your Stalker username might someday lead to a restraining order.
Good luck with it though…
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
Shut Wells down for the season
Cubs are pretty much out of it. He’s pitched more innings than they probably thought he would. Stretch him out longer in a season that matters.
He could turn into our ace in 1-2 years with more experience in the majors.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
Yep, he's into the 170's now from 123 last year.
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
Yea IMO he should be done
Shutting down Wells is more important than shutting down Harden unless Rich resigns with us next year and that extension happens before the end of the season.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
Only if we were smart, but I would never say that about us(team)
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
I hate to act like I'm smarter than an entire organization
But in this case…why are we having him go out there anymore. To pitch close to 180 innings? There’s no reason to push him right now.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
I said it on August 4
link
(patting himself on the back)
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
Link fail
chilango2 - September 17, 2009
really?
try again
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
Thx
chilango2 - September 17, 2009
I hate being right
I was the first to predict Gerald Perry would get the axe. I really hated being right that someone would lose their job.
But hey we do watch Cubs more than anyone else so obviously we should know what we’re talking about.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
Perry getting axed...
…sure helped a lot didn’t it?
MPH73 - September 17, 2009
Lou and hendry leaving would have helped more
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Perry was the sacrificial lamb...
… just like the White Sox’ batting coach was in 2001, after they made the playoffs in 2000 and got off to a bad start the following year.
Know who that was? Von Joshua. Guess the batting coach really doesn’t matter that much.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
OR......the Whitesox were right to fire Joshua
as he clearly isn’t that good or influential.
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
Maybe both.
I suspect Joshua won’t be back next year.
He was apparently highly regarded at Iowa.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
so was Felix Pie
I kid, I kid.
I agree that firing Perry was nothing but, as has been said many times “rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic” but from all accounts, Von Joshua’s approach was the opposite of what the team had been trying, and succeeded in moving towards, as far as being more patient and taking pitches.
Joshua is someone who loves aggressive at-bats. He would have been better suited for Dusty.
I think firing Perry, and hiring Joshua were bad moves in and of themselves
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
Hitting coaches are like...
…golf swing coaches, which means you will never get one guy that will really connect with more than a half dozen guys on the team.
MPH73 - September 17, 2009
Ace? Randy Wells?
I appreciate your optimism but I think thats doubtful
bheidge - September 17, 2009
Why the hell not?
He’s pitched exceptionally well, seems to learn new things and with experience I can see it.
I mean had the bullpen not blown his games and he had run support we’d be talking about a rookie with atleast 15 wins.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
hope your right
but I dont expect anything more than a #3-4 starter from him
bheidge - September 17, 2009
To be fair
He’s been more like our #2 starter this year. With experience, you can only hope. I mean he’s prboably going to be in the top 5 for ROY voting.
He’ll either go in a good direction or unfortunately be the next Rich Hill.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
Is Wells > Z ?
Is Z a true ace? Who is left? Demp? Lily?
zevkalman - September 17, 2009 via mobile
In Cubs terms
You could refer to Wells as a potential ace in hopefully a few years.
I’d trust Z on the mound more than Wells in a big game situation. I’d still go Z, Lilly, Dempster, Wells, Harden.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
Pandora's Box, Bill
chilango2 - September 17, 2009
That's why I wrote it ;-)
zevkalman - September 17, 2009 via mobile
Miracles?
Hey, it can happen.
cubnational - September 17, 2009
So we are the team that's doing the chasing right?
I’d wear swimming trunks.
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
Tweet from Muskat
So much for all of that, Milton warned Lou. Go back to unfairly judging him now.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
You are going to believe Muskat???????
She is a shill for the Cubs……A giant excuse maker.
If he was hurting, why did he bat at all?
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Agreed
She’s just the PR writer. But then again, and as discussed above, the beat writers for this team—save Bruce Miles—have little-to-no ethics.
I hate when I can’t trust the media. I feel like Pravda is telling me what the Politburo wants me to hear.
I’ve had a real bad day, so pay no mind to my rambling.
chilango2 - September 17, 2009
So you are saying that it is impossible that Milton told Lou in the dugout
“If I get on here I can’t run because my knee hurts”
nji232 - September 17, 2009
if he did say that, why have him bat?
Haven’t we learned a little something about playing a guy with a knee injury?
Illicat - September 17, 2009
You're kidding, aren't you?
vonde6 - September 17, 2009
But the pitchforks are already out.
Truthfully, Al said this was the one that broke the camels back. Right, like in a couple of weeks he was going to say he wanted to keep Bradley.
The people that want Bradley outta here are looking for anything to use to get him outta here. The pitchfork brigade.
KaliCub - September 17, 2009
So true.
sue369 - September 17, 2009
Very true
vonde6 - September 17, 2009
If I'm part of the "pitchfork brigade"
I don’t have to look very hard for reasons.
Illicat - September 17, 2009
Media that says what you already believe -- GOOD!
Media that says what you don’t — BAD!
Worf - September 17, 2009
Paul Sullivan vs. Muskat
I’ll take the lesser of two evils.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
Who's that?
Press releases are less evil than botched and libelous reporting, IMHO.
chilango2 - September 17, 2009
Muskat never breaks news that the Cubs don't want out there.
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Sullivan would always be better for a scoop.
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
lol
sue369 - September 17, 2009
Over muskat?
How is that funny?
Illicat - September 17, 2009
It's Paul Sullivan.
He wouldn’t know a scoop if it bit him in the ass. He’s a hack.
sue369 - September 17, 2009
All due respect
but compared to Carrie Muskat, he’s Joseph Pulitzer
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
Maybe in your world.
sue369 - September 17, 2009
have you actually read Carrie Muskat?
I get that you’ve got a grudge against Sullivan, but seriously, she’s a PR pumper for the club
Illicat - September 17, 2009
Unfortnately,
Sullivan has a horse in this race as well. He is staking his reputation as the only hobbit to also be a sports writer. He constantly needs to prove himself to bring recognition of the plight of the hobbits.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Sullivan has said
on CTL if he doesn’t like a player he will show bias against that player in his writing. Sullivan gets bashed in here on a regular basis by many so I find it hilarious that he writes something that several of you on here happen to agree with and this time he absolutely correct. It’s beyond laughable.
I don’t read Carrie much at all.
sue369 - September 18, 2009
+1
Don’t make Carrie Muskat the strawman to compare Sullivan against. He is just crap. Carrie is a club mouthpiece, so she is not very good in a whole other way.
Sullivan manufactures negative stories — so it is not surprising that the nega-posters flock around him like pigeons around a garbage dump.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
I've never been described as a pigeon before
chilango2 - September 18, 2009
Agree...
…and I know this doesn’t mean everything, but am I the only one that thinks Sullivan was picked last in neighborhood games?
MPH73 - September 17, 2009
You think Muskat was picked first?
Worf - September 17, 2009
She probably...
…wasn’t even a choice!
MPH73 - September 17, 2009
He still is.
sue369 - September 17, 2009
This reminds me
Of the famous Saturday Night Live sketch lampooning George Will the Cubs fan.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
So you'd take the person who is told what to say by the Club
over the independent journalist?
Illicat - September 17, 2009
"journalist"
Boy has that word taken a beating in the past few years.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
I've gotta go with TJ on this
If it had been an actual writer saying that, it’s one thing, but Carrie Muskat is the Baghdad Bob of the Chicago Cubs. I can still remember when Carrie compared Latroy Hawkins to Mariano Rivera.
Illicat - September 17, 2009
She has said many things like that.
Baghdad Bob is the perfect word for her.
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
I have sent her questions that require real thought and have gotten answers that do not appear in her website.
It pisses her off if you ask about Soriano’s play in LF or Why Neifi played over Theriot. She seems like kind of a bitch….
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
my favorite are when she posts a clearly easy question
and then responds by basically belittling the person who wrote it. As if she only got five questions that week, and it was beneath her to really answer the question.
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
I'm there too
it’s sad, because other “team correspondents” actually fulfill a purpose, whereas she’s clearly sold out in order to get closer to the team.
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
reading this again
if Milton had not gotten on base, would he have stayed in?
IF THIS IS TRUE what is it about Lou sending guys out there with obvious knee injuries?
And why the hell does MIlton himself go out of his way to make this a bigger story than it was. Someone asks him how long he thinks he’ll be out, and he freaks?
Good lord
Illicat - September 17, 2009
No, no, that's the part Sullivan is lying
You see, when a reporter says that Bradley was OK, he or she is telling the truth. When someone reports that he wasn’t, he or she is lying.
My wife is due to give birth any day now. I can’t always be around to help you keep this straight.
Worf - September 17, 2009
could you make me some flash cards or something?
Illicat - September 17, 2009
Flow charts are back in
And quite helpful
ak123 - September 17, 2009
I hate those effing things
my old boss used to love to have us make them. Even if it was like a two step process
Illicat - September 17, 2009
BCB Flow Chart
Cubs win
-—> Post Season is closer-—> Positive Thoughts ensue-—→ someone here finds a way to find something wrong with Bradley or Zambrano or both.Cubs lose
-—> Post Season is over-—> Fights ensue on BCB-—> Lou is blamed-—> 2 posts are made on who we should sign on offseason-—> BLou laughs at us all.ak123 - September 17, 2009
I hate both outcomes
chilango2 - September 17, 2009
Me too!
If I had more time I’d do something bit more creative….but the office is on in 15 minutes and that’s more important than the rest of the Cubs season.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
you forgot
-—> cubs trade for adam lind b rob and PV
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
ROY HALLIDAY!
Illicat - September 17, 2009
obviously this mood swing thing isn't limited only to the expectant mother...
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
Bradley's wife is expecting?
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
No they just had a baby.
He’s referring to Worf.
sue369 - September 17, 2009
I know, see it was an allusion to Bradley's mood swings
Illicat - September 17, 2009
Oh!
I see what you did there
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Sullivan first told us that Lou had "benched" Bradley after that at bat
So which is it?
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
Given the way it happened
that was certainly a reasonable assumption to make. Ron and Pat thought the same.
It turns out it was wrong, but that doesn’t equate to anything but a mistaken assumption.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
It does when you run it as a story
Especially when you juxtapose the claim with Lou denying said claim.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
I read Sullivan's story
in the Trib and I didn’t see that. All I saw was him asking Lou what happened and then quotes from Lou in his office.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
Here was the passage
Sullivan: Bradley was benched. Lou: it wasn’t a benching.
Sullivan did something very similar earlier in the season, claiming something despite it being denied:
Lou: it wasn’t a benching. Sullivan: Bradley was benched.
Seriously how can people following this not think this kind of thing hurts Sullivan’s credibility?
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
First of all
that quote was not in the story I read.
Secondly, in the story I read, Lou was quoted as follows: “When he went over to first base, I motioned to him and he said he couldn’t run, and we just took him out of the ballgame”,
That certainly could be interpreted as Lou having “yanked” Bradley.
As far as the second one is concerned, when Lou says, “Let’s just call it a day off”, he clearly is implying that it was something more. Sullivan is just reporting what is intuitively obvious. If you MB defenders are going to have any credibility, you are going to have to do better than this. Very weak.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
Offending your baseball sensibility again, are we?
AndrewJStone - September 18, 2009
No
just lacking common sense.
Let me know when you have something to contribute baseball-wise. You seem to be stuck in rut.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
Yup, everyone is dumber than you.
That’s the ticket.
AndrewJStone - September 18, 2009
Well now you're just going out of your way to sound like Al.
There’s plenty of compelling reasons to distrust Sullivan’s coverage of players he doesn’t like. ACB has done a series of articles on the subject.
I’m simply drawing a parallel to a situation earlier this year when Sullivan called something a benching that wasn’t. He’s done it again. It’s a very deliberate choice of words, chosen to depict the story in a negative light towards Bradley, and then later denied and disproved in both cases (in the former, by the injury story coming out; in the latter, by the fact that Bradley was playing the next day).
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
Because he has none?
Shanghai Badger - September 18, 2009
Only if you want to use his words
for more ammunition against Bradley.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
I take things that Sully says with a grain of salt
He made the Wells-Piniella discussion sound like a confrontation – quoted Wells out of context. I’d heard the post-game interview.
Shanghai Badger - September 18, 2009
I am the *last* guy
to buy into conspiracy theories, but this really sounds like an attempted cover up to me.
When you look at the sequence of events – Lou skipping the post game news conference, and then when he finally did let reporters into his office, the first thing he referenced was the incident with Bradley, in an attempt to downplay it. Not the Grand Slam, not bringing in Patton when he did, just Milton, front and center. I don’t know how you can infer anything but the fact that he was pissed at Bradley and knew he would be asked about and wanted to cool off first, lest he throw Milton under the bus, again.
Lou has enough experience with Bradley now to know the press was going to jump all over this incident. He, Muskat and the Cubs organization has gone into damage control mode now. It is as plain as the nose on your face.
Whoever it was that pointed out that there is no way Lou and MB co-exist at Wrigley Field in 2010 hit the nail on the head. One or the other, or both, will not be back.
azjazzman - September 17, 2009
How man Jazzmen do we have to hate on MB?
Perhaps we should collect one from every state? Just a thought.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
The one in
San Diego is smoooooooth.
Me, not so much.
azjazzman - September 17, 2009
Maybe in name
but I wouldn’t qualify his comments as anything close to smooth.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Smooth is an attitude
and a lifestyle.
I’m sure being a Cubs fan wreaks havoc on that at times. Therefore, SDSJM deserves some slack.
azjazzman - September 17, 2009
I for one would like to see what an IdahoJazzman would be like...
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
nothing like montanajazzman
hes a party animal
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
You should hear the trumpet of the Guam Jazzman
Worf - September 17, 2009
Not sure on the theory
but bringing in Patton was a question for yesterday’s game.
Doggie Stalker - September 17, 2009
Nice catch
but it doesn’t change the overall point.
I would bet the farm that the old Lou would have gone to that press conference and ripped Bradley a new one.
As it was, even after taking some time to cool off, he couldn’t restrain himself from saying the Cubs need players who can play and aren’t taking themselves out of ballgames with minor injuries. The comments were only slightly veiled. I would have loved to heard how he expressed it if he had gone to the PC.
azjazzman - September 17, 2009
Oh just returning the favor
You always spot those things in my post. It is a little late for a full fledged Lou meltdown . I would have a lot more sympathy with his anger at MB if he had not coddled Soriano ( who kept himself IN games he should not have and actually caused more damage) and continues his inexplicable bullpen management. I agree that it would have been fun to watch though and I sure could use some fun these days ( A reminder that a picture of Fuld as Batgirl would help).
Doggie Stalker - September 17, 2009
Surely you can see the difference
between how a manager perceives a player who wants to play when injured and one who takes himself out of games because of a tweak. A warrior
vsa guy you can’t count on. I think the blame on Soriano is misplaced. It is the training and medical staff’s job to determine if a player is unable to play. I think there is plenty of blame to go around re: Soriano.azjazzman - September 17, 2009
Regarding Soriano...
…I would tend to agree with that. Something still doesn’t jive with how that whole thing was handled.
MPH73 - September 17, 2009
I know I am repeating myself
but this is something I do know about. Torn cartilage in a knee can be tricky. Sometimes it will feel just fine, and then it will “float” into the joint and suddenly become very painful. But, the alarm went off for me when they said that Soriano reported that it hurt for him to put his weight on it. I don’t know when he initially said that, but when he did, the Cubs should have been thinking MRI and scope immediately. I would guess that would have been shortly after he suffered the injury.
I think it is a strong possibility they thought he could nurse it along and Soriano would still be able to play at near 100%. Obviously, they guessed wrong, and it was only when they were pretty much out of the race that they did what they should have done to begin with.
azjazzman - September 17, 2009
I'll second the torn cartilage can be very painful argument
When I was having some knee issues of my own, there were times when I would wake up screaming because I had moved around in my sleep and that wayward cartilage found itself where it shouldn’t be.
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
I can relate to this
I still have those sleep episodes, and will until the eventual knee replacement. After years of problems and the eventual arthritis, my knee can slip out of place when asleep — it feels as weird as it sounds.
But I started with a destroyed ACL and cartilege tears. The thing that still does not add up with Soriano is that after the MRI, the diagnosis was still knee tendenitis. I was waiting to hear about ligament or cartilege tears, but I still haven’t seen any details like this. When they said he was being scoped, I still didn’t see any details about what the underlying issue was. Does anyone have a more informative link, or has it just been as vague as the articles that I have seen?
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
nothing specific to Soriano
just my 2 cents that the MRI, while an awesome diagnostic tool, doesn’t see everything. Or maybe doesn’t reveal everything is a better way to put it. My knee doc found a thing or two he wasn’t expecting when he finally got in there and looked around.
So in my best “I’m not a doctor nor did I even play one on a soap opera” opinion, what would interest me most on Soriano is anything post-scope.
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
That is exactly right
Things get missed on MRIs all the time. The biggest variable is the person looking at it.
Also, my understanding was that they did not do an MRI until after a diagnosis of tendinitis was made.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
Since neither of you guys has any more details
I assume that I didn’t just miss the last press release.
On the MRI issue, I am very lucky, with my knee problems, that my brother-in-law is one of the best sports medicine radiologists around. He works with Dr. Steadman in Vail. I have had more MRIs than my insurance would probably allow. I am grateful, in the knee surgeries that I have had, that the state of the art has been advanced so far by catering to rich, pro athletes. I would expect that they would generally get the best medical advice around, but I know a contrary example. Dr. Ting, who did Barry Bonds’ last knee surgeries, is not well thought of by the medical community around here.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
I can see the difference
but the fact is Soriano continuing to play when he flat out sucked caused more damage to the team on the field
than Milton. There is plenty of blame to go around re playing Soriano ( I got dissed around here for repeatedly saying I thought something was physically wrong with him , likely his foot) but regardless of his physical issues he should not have been allowed to play as much as he did and that is on Lou. Soto got a lot less playing time when he was in his epic slump but not Soriano. Perhaps if Lou had lived up to his kick ass reputation Soriano might have been forced to confront his injury sooner but hey he was the guy Lou said they could not win without so despite his horrific batting, fielding and running he played the vast majority of games.
Doggie Stalker - September 17, 2009
A manager
has to rely on the medical staff to give him information as to the extent of an injury, and he bases his decision largely upon that. If, as I suspect, they were telling Lou that Soriano could play, then you really can’t fault Lou. We know, for instance, that at one point in August the diagnosis was tendinitis and that a few days rest should be sufficient.
I know you like to blame everything from the Cubs not making the playoffs to the brush fires in CA on Lou, but it really doesn’t hold water in this case.
azjazzman - September 17, 2009
You are missing my point
or I am not stating it clearly. It does not matter if Lou did not know Soriano had a PHYSICAL injury, he was playing like CRAP and should not have been playing every day especially because in addition to not hitting his fielding and running were also terrible. He was hurting the team , BADLY. I am not stupid enough to think you can bench an 18 million dollar player but if you are going to be a MANAGER then you have to start sitting him a lot more than Lou did. The “we have to rely on our vets as we can’t win without them” got pretty tired by AUGUST. Even taking into account his time on the DL the badly slumping Soto played a lot less because well he too could not hit. I don’t blame brush fires for the Cubs problems , I blame a large number of players playing , way , way below what one would expect and Lou adding fuel to the problem in how he played favorites and his monumentally bad in game moves.
Doggie Stalker - September 17, 2009
Well hold on a minute
Soriano has a history of slumping badly and then catching fire and carrying a team for a month at a time. I’m sure Lou and everyone associated with the Cubs were expecting and hoping that would happen again this year. And when it became clear that it wouldn’t, they shut him down.
It’s easy to say after the fact that they should have been better able to see into the future, but that is not realistic. The comparison to Soto is not really appropriate, as Soto does not have the established history that Soriano does of carrying a team for extended periods. I think a good case could be made that they may have stuck with Soto too long, too…because when they started playing Hill, they team as a whole played better.
azjazzman - September 17, 2009
Soriano has indeed been streaky
but there is a BIG difference between streaky and sucks. After the first 6 weeks of the season Soriano we into one really , really long slump broken up basically by ONE decent series against the Nats in July. Lou “stuck” him after is was pretty obvious he simply could not play. Most of his few hits were bloop singles. He had ONE home run in the month of August. He was misplaying balls at an alarming rate and he was not a good runner. He was failing at every level and yet played nearly every game. Apparently everyone but Lou , Drew and the Cubs trainers realized there was something very wrong with him. At some point a manager has to say this guy is not doing his job and even if he has been great in the past I can’t let him play everyday when I have enough other guys with problems. As you ( and everyone else here) knows I have not liked Lou’s managing since very early LAST year and while most of my disgust is at his in game moves , how he blindly keeps using some players ( Howry, Soriano, Stevens etc) who are clearly NOT performing and not using others ( Fox, Marshall, Blanco) who could have helped, also drives me nuts.
Doggie Stalker - September 18, 2009
+1, rec'd
It took awhile for the Sori experiment to reach a sorry conclusion, and Soriano’s streaky nature contributed to that. But I think that you are probably right that Lou et al (not Al) thought that it was the best hope after Aram was injured. Losing both of them for an extended period almost certainly meant that this was a lost season, especially with everything else that was going on.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
the thing is
soriano usually goes cold for a few weeks, not a few months
jesus christos - September 18, 2009
...
AndrewJStone - September 17, 2009
Being unwilling to accept the obvious
doesn’t make one noble or dedicated.
It simply means you’re obstinate.
Wake up.
Gibbon Jockey - September 17, 2009
Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows everywhere.
chilango2 - September 17, 2009
Damn, Al
You are reducing the trade value of Milton Bradley with your every utterance.
vonde6 - September 17, 2009
Bradley does that on his own. Only Hendry was stupid enough to fork out that much money and years for this bum
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Exactly.
I’m only stating what should be obvious to every Cubs fan.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
I was really referring to some of your jabs at Lou
For bad-mouthing some players and “reducing their trade value”.
I thought that this was a bogus argument to begin with. While a manager should be somewhat nurturing, I think that he should be also be able to wield a whupping stick too, when the situation calls for it. The player’s performances are always out there for everyone to evaluate. If anyone cares to evaluate the situation, they can tell who does not really fit in your organization, and come to you with that argument and a proposal to take the problem off your hands.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
It is especially odd
in light of the oft stated desire for Lou to “hold players accountable”. It’s kinda hard to do that if you are not allowed to be critical of them.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
Accountability...
…starts from the top down in an organization. Hendry himself is horrendous at holding people accountable. He talks circles and makes excuses and never simply says a player has been a dissapointment and he needs to play better.
If the GM doesn’t tell it like it is, why should the manager?
MPH73 - September 18, 2009
It's a fine line
as someone else mentioned, one of the biggest things you need to do as a manager is to shield the people under you from taking excessive heat. It is hard to perform when you are constantly subjected to negative scrutiny.
But, these are professionals and substandard performance is not acceptable. How a manager or a GM deal with that is a pretty big deal. Most of it happens out of the public eye…as it should.
I do not necessarily subscribe to the theory that Lou and Hendry have failed at their jobs. I do, however, suspect that Lou is dealing with health issues that have sapped his enthusiasm for dealing with the fallout of a disappointing season.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
Interesting theory
That is a good point, that I had not thought of before — and here I am, Lou’s chief apologist. You get used to speculating about the players’ health, but it never occurred to me to think that a 66-year-old man might have health issues. This, in spite of watching lots of baseball games, and sitting through the associated Flomax, Cialis, and yadda yadda commercials.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
Don't let facts
over and over and over and over and over and over again skew that.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
What facts are those, precisely?
His 40 RBI? Yeah, those are great. All the walks he’s had this month? Wonderful.
Trade him ASAP once the season is over.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
RBI?
Really? That’s the stat you want to go by?
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Oh, do tell, what wonderful "advanced metric" shows Bradley to be a good player this year?
This, I gotta hear.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
Oh jesus Al
It’s funny. It’s been shown ad naseum, Al. At this point you’re just out for blood and honestly it’s pathetic.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
How about one more time
because other than some obscure metric that was made up this season, I doubt there’s one that shows he’s been a productive player this season
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
Sigh.
I shouldn’t do this. I should not, but here we go.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=369&position=OF
Just read. if you need an explanation look it up. Has he been the end all be all? Not at all. But slumping sluggers be damned has there been ALOT of hand wringing.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
His fangraphs page?
I thought you were going to make an argument. Saying that the reader should “look it up” is surrender. Then you refer to him as slumping as part of your argument that he has been good this year.
At least the fangraphs page has his RBIs – heh.
ol Pete - September 18, 2009
Blood?
Hardly. It’s really simple. I don’t think he’s been a productive player, and I think he’s been a distraction. Neither of those are good things to have on a baseball team.
I’ll be very happy when he’s traded.
And you didn’t answer my question.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
I also am waiting for that magic stat....
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
See above
I’m not citing one simple statistic, I’m going to link you and make you read perhaps you’ll learn something, a better way of evaluating a player than a team-dependent statistic.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
He has choked so many times with runners in scoring position
Even if it is a team dependant stat he should have a lot more. Dunn managed to do it in Washington on a shitty team. Bradley has just sucked and is an ass on top of it. Why are you fighting for him so much?
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
as much as i dislike the bradley signing
the dunn argument is stupid, washington is a good offensive team
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
What I am saying is that people who bat mostly 5th everyday should have more than 40 freakin' RBI's
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Partly because of Dunn, right?
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
The Bradley over Dunn signing made me sick then and still does now.
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Agreed.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
ofcourse
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
Dunn would drive in...
…more runs than Bradley in his sleep.
MPH73 - September 17, 2009
yep
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
sigh.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
You are happier with Bradley than Dunn?
A yes shoots down ALL credibility you have.
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
This year?
No.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
The last 5 years?
Dunn has been a steady run producer. Bradley had one decent year and it still was not as good as Dunn. Hendry screwed up bad. Dunn was your LH batter to bat 5th and would have been cheaper without all the baggage that Bradley brings.
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Facts
http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=369&playerid2=319&playerid3=&position=OF&page=6&type=full
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Looks like the chart backs up the claim on Dunn.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
I don't even care about the RBIs
Slumps happen. Guys have down years. Guys have problems adjusting. It happens in sports and in life.
I just want him to shut up about it
Worf - September 17, 2009
Ignore him
he’s not calling you personally telling you, “Worf, I’m tired of the racism and it’s your fault”. Stop reading the papers. If it bothers you that much stop paying attention to him.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
because he's had a down year
this happens to players. It irritates me to see people jump on a player who’s had a down year. There’s a term in statistics that says the territory is not the map.
Sample size alert too.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
What is that term?
ol Pete - September 18, 2009
Hey rage pull out his wonderful numbers this year
Where are they, He has a bad year, whether it is OBP, his OPS his UZR and any other 3 letters you can make up.
The Bradley lovers just put the freaking blinders on, any time us Bradley doubters come up with the numbers you shove down our face in defense of Bradley, that actually show Bradley has had a bad year, you then surprisingly dismiss those numbers. Quite hilarious
Grockcubs - September 17, 2009
So you're dumb then?
Because I posted the link. Try and keep up champ.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
I'll state this sucinctly
1. Milton Bradley is a useful player who your paying for essentially his career overage of about 3ish WAR over his average seasons worth of games played. He’s underperformed this year, but he’s still not one of the primary reasons this team is not going to the playoffs.
2. You’d have to eat a lot of MBs contract and sign a new player to upgrade the position. Then you’d be paying this new, better player, more money than MB and so MB’s remaining contract + MB= more than just MBs contract. So you’re not actually spending a lot more money than you have to by “upgrading the position” leaving even less money to fix other problems.
3. You will not get another 10 Million dollar player per year to produce over the course of his contract as well as MB.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Jake Fox, who rarely plays has 39
Fronty has more than Bradley. Pretty sad for 10 million
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
RBI's
You’re basing this off RBI’s. Do you realize how insanely ludicrous this is?
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
So, again.
Tell us which one of the sainted advanced metrics shows Bradley to be a productive player, THIS YEAR.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
OBP
hm..
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
Which, coming into today's game....
… stood at .376, third on the team, and 22nd in the NL among qualifiers.
Yeah, that’s really, really great. Worth all that money, yessir.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
Well third on a team behind DLee and ARam...
…ain’t exactly chopped liver.
I’m not sure this helps your “get rid of him” position.
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
22nd in NL among qualifiers does
Illicat - September 17, 2009
Really? How so?
There are 16 teams in the NL So just by applying even distribution, being #22 means he’s in the top half, almost top third of the 2nd round, i.e. he’d be the 2nd best OBP guy on more than half the teams.
Of course, reality hardly ever reflects even distribution but truth is he’d be
- the team leader on three teams (LAD, PGH, CIN),
- 2nd on eight teams (StL, PHI, SD, HOU, NYM, CHC, ARI, SF), and
- 3rd on four teams (MIL, COL, ATL, and either FLA or WAS depending on how you want to account for Nick Johnson)
So tell me again, why does being one of the top OBP guys on your team constitute grounds for removal?
FYI: Here’s #1-21 (Evidently ARam doesn’t yet qualify):
Pujols, NJohnson, HRam, Utley, Prince, Dunn, Helton, AGonz, Berkman, Wright, Votto, LCastillo (really? wow…), DLee, Chipper, Willingham, Hawpe, Escobar, Braun, Upton, Sandoval, Coughlan.
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
thats funny
No Nick Markakis, I guess no one would want Nick Markakis over Milton Bradley. That is why this whole freaking OBP, OPS, and Fangraph can be sometimes misleading.
Grockcubs - September 18, 2009
that's funny
do you believe nick markakis plays in the national league?
i’ll get you a prescription to the internets, if so.
galloway0023 - September 18, 2009
Jeez
I missed the NL, I will run 10 laps
Grockcubs - September 18, 2009
To be fair
He didn’t play in the #2 spot so often.
He should have more RBIs since he played the #3 and #6 spot.
His OBP has been solid though.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
So instead of six bags of sunflower seeds
We’re down to two bags of Cheetos.
Worf - September 17, 2009
and a warm Fresca
I really think we could get that out of someone
Illicat - September 17, 2009
i think soto would like the cheetos
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
baked or regular cheetos?
ak123 - September 17, 2009
Re: to Jesus christos
Soto would prefer baked cheetos…
ak123 - September 17, 2009
i know for a fact he wasnt eating baked cheetos during the 2008 offseason...
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
Nah but he was baked
ak123 - September 17, 2009
And then he had the munchies.....
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Hey Worf
I’ve already gotten banned once for this so I won’t spell it out like I did last time, but you should be forced to take part in a certain operation with a rusty spoon.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
I figure after Worf dropped a F Bomb
This should be an interesting case study in the banning practices around here.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
BUZZ IN THE HIZZY!
Worf - September 17, 2009
The political discussion will end, NOW!!
Rec’d
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
I missed this guy
Worf - September 17, 2009
Savor it.
+1
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Man do you look tired.
Just really tired.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
I wonder if today's events involved Ryan Theriot or Mike Fontenot
What the reaction would be. I promise Muskat’s tweet would have been accepted a quoted as gospel for the events that happened and that the “offending” party would be praised for even attempting to play with a hurt knee.
I has become sad the way Milton Bradley is treated by Cubs fans, especially many here.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
I feel your pain.
sue369 - September 17, 2009
But they wouldn't have.
Because Theriot and Fontenot wouldn’t do that.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
You know that how?
You seem to be very sure of yourself you know exactly what Bradley did today. Nevermind the knee has been a reoccurring problem throughout his career he’s a terrible person. You love that you’re psuedo-right about Bradley don’t you?
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
"Pseudo-right".
Great. Did you make that up yourself?
I cannot see how anyone can defend Bradley any more. He has not produced. He has been a distraction. Why would you want anyone like that on your team?
The Bradley defenders, as noted above, would love to see him succeed with another team, so they can be right. You’d rather be right than win, wouldn’t you?
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
I did make that up myself you like?
Because most Bradley defenders recognize a decent player when they see it. He’s had a down year, how many times do you or anyone have to be told this? STILL in a down year he’s been decent with a .390+ OBP. I’m not saying he hasn’t been a let down but all this hand wringing is obnoxious.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Obnoxious?
as opposed to those of you who want to be proven right so badly, you’d rather he go to another team and beat us?
You’re seriously calling US obnoxious?
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
Haha
See I never said that. I never said anything about wanting Bradley to go elsewhere. I understand as an inevitability it’s going to happen but I’v’e never said anything about it. Check.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
I still think he can succeed here
of course, everyone’s definition of “succeed” is going to be a little different.
Me? I subscribe to the “Milton plays better when he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder” theory. And this year’s events have surely given him plenty of chips to put on his shoulder next year. So assuming he’s in good health, I would expect him to be quite productive next year offensively – and I would hope that’s here.
Yes, he’s still going to have issues with the media, Lou, and the fans. But as long as he doesn’t go psycho (and my apologies to all the psychos out there) on or off the field, I can live with the attitude issues, real or perceived.
Of course, it’d be nice to have – as an insurance policy – a pretty strong clubhouse presence on the team to put the clamps on MB when the situation calls for it. Maybe Lee already does that out of the public eye – I dunno. But man, I’d love to have Glenallen Hill back here as a hitting coach. I’m pretty sure he’d keep MB in line and very productive.
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
I don't think so
“Maybe Lee already does that out of the public eye”
If Lee is doing that, he’s not doing a very good job. Unless Milton is Carl Everett crazy, and some of the stuff has been contained
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
I really did like that theory
I was one of its main proponents.
But I’m tired of it. I’m tired of him walking off the field when guys like Aramis are playing hurt, when Soriano tried to play hurt, when Fuld is out there throwing himself into walls.
He may very well be a guy who needs to be angry to succeed.
His success isn’t worth it.
Worf - September 17, 2009
Right.
If management thought that “chip” was what was missing from last year’s team, they were misinformed.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
Per usual...
…it was a square chip, for a round hole.
MPH73 - September 17, 2009
hmm.... Wheat Thin or Triscuit?
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
TRISCUITS SUCK!
Worf - September 17, 2009
what are those little yellow pseudo-cheddar things?
Cheeze-its? Those weren’t bad.
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
Remember those Sociables?
Different shapes and kind of a ranchy, basily thing? I loved those.
Worf - September 17, 2009
they're still around
I saw them at the store today
Illicat - September 17, 2009
+1
Oh, yes, Cheez-Its.
Don’t worry about the pseudo-cheddar part. Cheddar cheese is colored to make it orange in the first place. It is naturally white. So, it has its own phoniness quotient (desperate need for attention?).
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
But...
Theriot would:
a. repeatedly miss tags at second base.
b. repeatedly get thrown out attempting to advance a base when there is no hope of success.
c. throw to the wrong base with the game on the line.
d. dive for balls 3-5 feet beyond his reach that other SSs have a reasonable chance of getting in the normal course of their daily jobs.
Is that playing the game the proverbial right way?
galloway0023 - September 18, 2009
It's called credibility
People with a history earn the benefit of the doubt — or earn the forfeiture of same.
Fontenot and Theriot — nice touch, picking the white guys — have not caused the problems Bradley has. (And neither has Lee, Ramirez, Scales, Fukudome, or many other minority players.
Worf - September 17, 2009
Fine Lee does that
And HAS done that. Left the game because of a reoccurring injury. Surgically reconstructed knees occasionally flare up, it happens get over it.
There is no venom when Lee leaves the game with neck pain. What about when Aramis got pulled in colorado because of shoulder pain?
No surely only Milton Bradley, the most evil baseball player on earth, would even stoop as low as to leave a game in the middle because they are injured.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
interesting how you completely ignore the credibility problem
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
Because Lee and Aramis
have earned the benefit of the doubt. You refuse to get that concept.
And Lee and Aramis don’t act like the reporter is asking them when they stopped beating their wives when asked about it later.
Worf - September 17, 2009
Bingo
his behavior when he was asked “how long do you think you’ll be out?” was extremely odd
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
So because you don't like Milton's personality
It means all he does is make up injuries.
Credibility doesn’t have a thing to do with it, he said he’s hurt, get over it.
Why is it that some players on this team (Lee, Rami, Ted, Dempster) can get injured and not be thrown to the wolves, while others (Milton, Z) get ripped to shreds? Simply because you don’t like who they are as a person?
nji232 - September 17, 2009
Because... Milton...has...wasted...his...credibility
Are you deliberately being dense or are you just that stupid?
Worf - September 17, 2009
When has milton made up an injury this season?
nji232 - September 17, 2009
so you're just throwing out all his behavior
before this season?
And yes, there have been reports questioning just how hurt he was in the past. Athlon had an article in their pre-season mag talking about how he sat out with a bad finger last season until he thought he might lose out on some incentives.
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
This is exactly the behavior I've heard he's had throughout his career.
It hasn’t changed at all.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
What has he done with the Cubs?
He gets pissy with the media? So what, no matter what Milton does you all would rip him. Talk to the media? He says something that pisses you off. Doesn’t talk? He’s a surly asshole that has no credibility.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
Again, his credibility extends past his six months with the Cubs
I really don’t think you understand what the word means.
You think he’s magically a different person because he came to Chicago?
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
There is no such thing as a clean slate?
nji232 - September 17, 2009
He had one and blew it
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
When?
Was it when he said he faces hatred on a daily basis? Evidence from here suggests he does.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
oh for Pete's sake
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
It seems to be one of many of his excuses
If you think he is playing bad you must be a hating racist. Thats how he thinks. Just once I like to hear him take responsibility for his own actions.
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Get real
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
he's had like nine of them
at some point, he has to earn it.
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
this is funny
First you say ‘F You’ to someone now you’r’e blatantly are calling folks stupid. You thought Buzz was joking when he spoke of the banning practices?
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
are you TRYING to change the subject?
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
Not really no
Just pointing out something quirky I think is funny.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
How long are you going to let Worf personally attack people Al?
Mike Martin - September 17, 2009
Al never responds to these things
Because he is really tired and has to get up early. Just plain “fucking” (to borrow Worf’s filthy, filthy language) exhausted.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
FLAGGED!
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
lol
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
If it makes you feel better
Al warned me. I will go forth and sin no more.
Worf - September 17, 2009
i have forgiven you as well
be at peace
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
And also with you...
Oh sorry wrong place. I should make that offering to DeRosa at Wrigley right?
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
you'd do well to hold a more reverent tongue
when speaking of the Lord Mark DeRosa.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
saint derosa...
The Cardinal Trinity does not like it when people get their names wrong
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
In all fairness
Pujols may be some sort of baseball deity. That dude transcends good, he is godly at baseball.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
he cures someone with cancer with every home run he hits
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
Cancer
Pshhh…
He leaves that to DeRosa. His home runs cures AIDs.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
and hunger
and Hepatitis C.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
FLAGGED
This was the worst thing every done on this blog. I’m watching you.
Keith - September 17, 2009
Dammit I'm being watched
This totally sucks.
Can I at least take off my ankle braclet?
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Fixed
Can, I, at, least, take, off, my, ankle, braclet?
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
The political talk will stop, NOW.
I’m watching both of you.
Keith - September 17, 2009
Shut em' right up.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
"Why is it that some players on this team (Lee, Rami, Ted, Dempster) can get injured and not be thrown to the wolves, while others (Milton, Z) get ripped to shreds?"
Do you understand what credibility is?
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
There is some serious excuse making going on for Bradley here.
I have even noticed the race card being played when comparing him to other players.
Is that where it has to go when you don’t have any ammo to back up a weak idea?
Did someone REALLY just compare the credibility of Theriot and Fronty to Bradley?
WOW!
Theriot is having a crappy year in the field but I never thought he was dogging it. Bradley has a bad rep and gets cut loose from every team he’s been on for something other than talent.
Jerks get plenty of chances with their teams, so he must be a real ass to be constantly having to change cities all the time.
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Exactly, add in his total lack of production an you get a total unmitigated diaster.
When he stood there and took strike three with the bags full and got tossed and suspended against Wainwright in a 4-4 game on April 16, I knew this was match made in hell. It was all a train wreck after that, just 9 games into the season and the Milton that we had been promised didn’t exist appeared and suddenly all the media focus was on him and things would get worse with the forgetting of how many outs there were and the accusasion of racist taunts and the general excuse making was here. Now we’re left with a guy with a .256 BA and a suddenly sore knee. We’ve been had again and it’s time to cut our loses and move on.
Itchy - September 18, 2009
If you knew that then
you would be one of the most brilliant baseball minds ever.
Being able to predict a bad season after one ejection 9 games into the season. I wish Lou Piniella had your baseball instincts.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
Me too
Itchy - September 18, 2009
i remember
Ramirez being very upset with Theriot earlier this year.
Z being upset with Theriot’s play or lack thereof earlier this year.
Those are problems caused, are they not?
galloway0023 - September 18, 2009
well, I for one NEVER accept what Carrie Muskat says as gospel.
and if a reporter had straight up said that Theriot or Fontenot took himself out of the game, and then Theriot or Fontenot had acted bizarrely in the locker room after it.
discounting that, Bradley has lost the benefit of the doubt thanks to his actions in other places. Some of you act as though the media everywhere has gone out of their way to villify Bradley for no reason. There have been stories like this at every stop. Not just Chicago
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
Accurate reporting or no
I think it is safe to assume that what Muskat reports has been rubber stamped by the Cubs organization.
azjazzman - September 17, 2009
And Paul Sullivan's reports
have stamped by the aging lesbian hobbit community. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
*have been stamped
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Not that there's anything wrong with that
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
this entire bradley signing has divided the great land of BCB
i sense trouble
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
there are 17 games left in the season
we’re teetering on the edge of being eliminated, and NOW you sense trouble :)
Nunyabidness - September 17, 2009
no not that trouble...
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
i sense a mass banning
philadelphiacub - September 17, 2009
You think?
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Can't argue with that!
Keith - September 17, 2009
LSA
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Noooooo
you don’t say?
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
No flippin' way.
Keith - September 17, 2009
This is the worst thing every done on this site.
Prove me wrong.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Shut me right up.
Keith - September 17, 2009
+1 NAMBLA
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
the political talk ,will stop, NOW!!,!
if you’re not into coleslaw trysts, you’re D-O-N-E on this site.
You see, 2-3 times each season Al has to go through and ban everyone who doesn’t follow step with his LF bleacher, worthless stat-ignoring views on players like Bradley and Zambrano.
philadelphiacub - September 17, 2009
ok seriously
+1 on this one.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
It really is all there.
Rec’d +1 for sure
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Rec'd
Keith - September 17, 2009
Agree
1000%
Grockcubs - September 17, 2009
1000%
this site has not been enjoyable at all. Just hate. No discussion. Time to move on.
Grockcubs - September 18, 2009
yeah
its gotten downright unpleasant….
Allie - September 17, 2009
I agree.
I’m staying out of the Bradley talk. I have done this for a while.
Vermont Cubs Fan - September 18, 2009
Let me give you some stats of a free agent signing
This guy signed for 3 years and 27 million. He was a known injury risk and tended to be rather fragile.
His first season he played 132 games and started the season on the DL.
His batting line was .250/.309/.382/.691 Thru July 30. He finished .275/.337/.419/.757.
Do you want that player traded after his first season?
nji232 - September 17, 2009
I know you're talking about Moises Alou...
… who went on to have two good years over the last part of his contract.
And, many people DID want him traded after his first season. Further, he was not a distraction in the way Milton Bradley is.
Two different situations.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
That is my point though
Why not give Milton another year? There isn’t a better alternative, if you present me one then I suppose I can accept it, but there isn’t one in house.
Plus Alou couldn’t be a distraction with Sammy running around.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
So let's bring Sammy back!
Worf - September 17, 2009
2003 Sammy would be an alternative to Milton
I would accept that
nji232 - September 17, 2009
2003 Sammy???
Let’s just bring in 1987 Dawson and be done with it!
Worf - September 17, 2009
Never heard him complain about racism in RF
And does anyone think he would have pulled himself out like Bradley today?
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Bradley is a giant crybaby next to a total class act like Dawson
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
Dawson was worshipped while he was here
But I guess those white fans bowing to him were just being ironically racist.
Worf - September 17, 2009
There might be a better alternative.
Let me think this over for a while. It doesn’t have to be a free agent; maybe a trade could be made.
What a mess Hendry made with this signing.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
Whats sad is that many of us saw this coming BEFORE he signed him
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
This quote from Alou sounds familiar
link to story.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
Seriously? You want to replicate the 2004 team?
God help us
Worf - September 17, 2009
I'm just saying Milton isn't the only one.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
Yes, let's keep a guy whose best model
is someone who was mediocre for his first year and statistically improved, but was such a lousy clubhouse presence that he made the 2004 Cubs the most unlikeable team in years.
I personally don’t want to replicate guys who blame the umps, the announcers, the media and little green men from Uranus for every failing.
Worf - September 18, 2009
That guy who made that team unlikeable
happened to be the best Cub in 2004. Who care if you like a player’s personality? That has nothing to do with their on field performance.
nji232 - September 18, 2009
The 2004 Cubs team
was a choking dog of a team that was filled with guys — Alou, Hawkins, Mercker — who found everyone to blame for their problems but themselves.
If the goal is to replicate that team, let me know. I’m out.
Worf - September 18, 2009
The goal is to build a good baseball team
Alou wasn’t the problem with that team. Sammy Sosa, Dusty Baker, LaTroy Hawkins, and Kent Merker were all whiny punks- Alou too- but that team was still really talented. Put Lou in charge of that bunch- perhaps getting rid of Hawkins and Merker, and that team makes the playoffs 9 times out of 10.
nji232 - September 18, 2009
I like the way that you think
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
Oh this is rich
Yeah, Alou’s on-field temper was never ever a costly distraction for the Cubs.
Not ever.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
He didn't ruin some poor guys life or anything like that
oh wait
nji232 - September 18, 2009
Alou's baserunning was much more costly.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
well, at least he didn't play shortstop...
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
I should add that this player had quite the temper
and did have issues with umpires.
nji232 - September 17, 2009
Yes, although...
… that didn’t seem to come out until after that first year.
Al Yellon - September 17, 2009
And of course, he nearly got Steve Bartman killed
Worf - September 17, 2009
And he was the worst baserunner for any good player I've ever seen
Worf - September 17, 2009
Steve Stone liked to bring that up
And man, did that piss Dusty off!
TJ11 - September 17, 2009
That foul ball he hit in the double-header nightcap against the Cardinals in September 2003,
I’m talking of the one he had issues with—was that a fair or foul ball?
I remember reading that it raced down the third-base line, kicking up chalk. Is that line fair or foul?
Vermont Cubs Fan - September 18, 2009
That's fair
If any part of the ball hits any part of the line past the base when it first touches the ground, it’s fair.
Shanghai Badger - September 18, 2009
FAIR??? You can NOT be serious!!!
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
"you're lucky I don't shove this ball up your..."
N Oakley - September 18, 2009
Interesting how the word "credibility" is being used here
Credibility has nothing to do with the actions of an individual, but everything to do with how those actions are perceived by the rest of us.
ballhawk - September 17, 2009
In the immortal words of Vincent Kennedy McMahon
Tell Milton Bradley to go f’ Milton Bradley.
This season should be ending better than this, and it may still, with or without (more likely) a postseason birth. As I’ve said before though, there’s a whole other world away from this game, and there’s no point in letting it get me, or anyone else down. If anything, we needed a season as frustrating as this one has been, full of the failures we’ve seen, and the small accomplishments made by others. Last year set the bar way too high and made too many believe this team was World Series bound, so at the first sign of trouble, there was far too much angst and frustration. It’s still baseball and anything can happen. There are no certainties. Next year will be better for us having to endure this year. Goodnight all.
Craig in South Bend - September 17, 2009
Actually my boss would have said
Milton Bradley screwed Milton Bradley.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
So Yellon and Worf
How many wins would a team with Adam Dunn replacing Milton Bradley have? With DeRosa and not Bradley?
(let me predict your answer Al)
/Pulls out magic 8 ball
//Shakes
the political discussion will stop NOW!
hmmm, not quite
/Shakes
You can observe a lot by wathcing
not quite, but closer
/Shakes
Statistics don’t tell the whole story
Ding! Ding! Ding! we have a winnah!!!
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
LSA
Rec’d. 1lb of coleslaw.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
(dying laughing)
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
A whole pound is a bit excessive
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Seventh inning bathroom tryst?
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Even for a tryst, it maybe excessive
I suppose you could do a slip n’ slid in the bleacher troughs with coleslaw, but preferable a pound would be preserved for outdoor cooking outings like campouts and things of that nature.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
B==D~~~
Keith - September 17, 2009
Rec'd
1/2lb of Coleslaw.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
This is true
Nothing beats a good bologna sandwich.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Especially,
if you, get a free big gul,p to wash it down.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
over dinner?
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
I don't know
Have you interviewed any famous Chicago baseball executives or infielders?
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
I do have season tickets
and a business card.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Newsleter too?
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
What other kind of literature do you offer?
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Well I tend to stay away from stat sheets
But I am quite fond of Vineline.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
You two enjoy your own company
Your smugness gets old.
Grockcubs - September 17, 2009
We do enjoy our companies
Just not in the seventh inning or over dinner.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Seventh inning? Over dinner?
I’m there!
Keith - September 17, 2009
BOO YAH
8===D
(icy Tony LaRussa stare)
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
I just don't
know what exactly your implying. Perhaps you could explain it with some kind of picture that vaguely relates to popular culture.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Smashing Pumpkins
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
DESPITE ALL MY RAGE
I AM STILL JUST A RAT IN A CAGE
Keith - September 17, 2009
Like a Freddy Bynum encounter.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
It's not my fault I'm such a tool.
Keith - September 17, 2009
I don't know
Freddy Bynum can be very intimidating. I think a Tommy Lasorda stare down is more pertinent.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Well
Maybe if you didn’t tell him to go pound sand up your ass he’d be nicer to you.
Keith - September 17, 2009
(dying laughing)
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
I will admitt
that had crossed my mind.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
if you really wannt to get on his good side
A picnic. LOTS of coleslaw. Like a pound
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
I know he has t-shirts.
Keith - September 17, 2009
Oh yeah!
i have t-shirts……and an awesome grip on,how,to,use,the,comma.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Milton Bradley
Has been on ’7 different teams.
The Lord Mark DeRosa 5. He must be the crappiest teammate ever.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
you got it wrong it again
you cannot escape your fate now..
jesus christos - September 17, 2009
Oooh Dear
“And DeRosa will strike down upon thee with great Vengeance and furious anger”
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
As opposed to Chicago's secondary man crush
Ted Lilly who has punched who has punched his manager and been ejected from the dugout for arguing balls and strikes.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
I will always believe DeRosa was not in good company with Cubs management
I’d love to still have him on the team but it seemed like they were interested to move on without him at the end of the 2007 season too.
ak123 - September 17, 2009
I got the feeling
That he was seen as a weak link after the playoff failure last year. Did anyone else get that impression? He was one of the guys that talked about being on the team that ended the drought, and how great it would be, and then he contributed to the errors-fest at Wrigley. I saw several comments on bulletin boards to that effect.
Anybody here subscribe to that theory, or has his subsequent sainthood converted all DeRo-detractors?
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
He was just another player...
… on a team that did well for a while, then fell on its face when it counted. Letting him go didn’t cause some sudden improvement, obviously… and keeping him wouldn’t have gotten us one either.
Its not about one player. Its bigger than that. Which is why all the harping on Bradley is so redic. He’s not even one of the dudes that’s been hurting the team the most this season. All off the venom should be reserved for Lou, Hendry, Soriano, Soto… but hey, lets all pick on the new kid!
AndrewJStone - September 18, 2009
batting in the middle of the lineup and only hitting .243 in the first half doen't let him off the hook completely.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
None of us has said that..
How about this, Bradley has been one of the many disappointments on this failed team.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
Oh okay, I'll let Andrew speak for himself then.
I have said that I would blame those folks before I blamed Milton too, but in my world, Milton doesn’t get off scott free of responsibility from this failed season. Just he isn’t the first or main reason.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
The entire offensive lineup has contributed to this abortion of a season in one way or another.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
I wouldn't blame Lee or Aram.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
or Baker or Fox
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
What about Theriot?
He is still hitting .289. He has not succeeded in the leadoff role.
Fontenot has been a big disappointment. Last year, those two guys, with Soto won a lot of games with lower in the order run production. Tha has been non-existent this year, and has added to it all. There were time last year the middle of the lineup wasn’t getting it done, and the little guys picked them up.
BleedsbluinMI - September 18, 2009
In my view I wouldn't be patting Riot on the back on a season well done.
He isn’t all to blame for his misfortunes though, Lou wanted him to swing for the fences, Lou kept hitting him leadoff even though Dome was doing great at the time.
But he does had really bad range at SS, he double clutches every third throw, he has a horrible stealing percentage, and he has no patience at the plate, those would be on him.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
I agree, I think he is better suited lower in the order.
I think from the plate he has done ok, the patience has been a problem. It was fun to se him hit for power the 2 1/2 weeks he did, but I think his success lies in going back to slapping it the other way.
The problem is hitting the (pull) homers, is its real hard not to look for that every time it seems.
I don’t think he is quite as bad defensively as he is made out to be, but then I watch Blanco play there. It is a whole different level.
BleedsbluinMI - September 18, 2009
No kidding on the appreciation for Blanco.
Imagine how much better our defense would be with a Blanco playing at SS every day. (I know his offense isn’t that great)
Why Lou keep marching him at leadoff is perplexing, he should be hitting eigth.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
OK, other than the first 19 games Lee has performed well
and Aramis getting hurt has limited his opportunities, but he’s done great this year too. It’s been a perfect storm of Soriano, Soto, Bradley and Fontenot simply NOT hitting for extended periods of time.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
See, we have found common ground,
the team has failed and there have been many disappointments, not just Bradley. I think what the Bradley defenders get riled up about is the disproportional blame he gets for the season going down in flames.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
Disproportional?
I think the blame is exactly proportional to the amount of salary being paid and the degree to which the team was counting on Bradley.
Soriano has been the #1 whipping boy, but as we now know, he was injured. It was known going in that Fonty was an experiment. Soto has received plenty of criticism too, but he is a 2nd year guy making league minimum.
When a player is brought in for 3/$30M to provide a certain level of performance and he fails to do so, and in addition provides a lot of unnecessary distractions, including blaming fans, media, etc for his failures, then yeah, he is going to take some heat.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
If you look at the season as a whole,
I’d say Milton has got way more blame than Sori on this board and out at the ballpark. Even though as a player, he has been the largest disappointment. I don’t remember the 5 straight posts about Sori and his lack of production and attitude problems, but I do remember the ones about Milton.
I’ll give you this, I am a honest type of guy, Milton was brought in to do something he was never suited to do or has never done. (5th hitter RBI guy). But that doesn’t mean that I don’t want him, great batting eye, takes many walks, good hitter and plays good in the field. He is exactly the kind of player want for the cubs.
You can dislike him for whatever reason you choose, but just because we disagree doesn’t mean either of us isn’t being substantial.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
Meanwhile...
… I’ll give Soriano some slack because he was injured. When he’s healthy, he can go on hot streaks that can carry the team.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
Or course you would
because Sori didn’t prevent you from getting your precious Dunn.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
The Cubs would have had a better record with Dunn this year.
But I guess in your world a player who ranked:
6th in the NL in home runs
1st in walks
7th in RBI
6th in OBP
5th in OPS
5th in OPS+
oh, and has played in all but one of his team’s games, wouldn’t be of any help.
Yes, I know his defense is bad. The bat would have made up for it.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
Did I say that?
I was pointing out to you that you have prejudged Bradley all season long. My guess is that you didn’t get the free agent that you wanted, so blame the guy that they brought in. (and you do seam a little like Ahab too)
I actually don’t think if all the players had had the same year, that Dunn wouldn’t have been that big of a difference. Both of our opinions are just that opinions. This whole exercise is just unprovable.
But I am resigned to the fact that you and the rest of the pitchfork mob will run him out of town. So we will see next year if Milton was the only reason why we didn’t win a world series.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
I was willing to give Bradley a chance, actually...
… but every time it seemed things were turning around, he’d either stop hitting, or have some more off-field commotion, or both.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
in august i was getting prepared to call him
YELDRAB, but it didnt pan out…
jesus christos - September 18, 2009
giving MB a chance?
with the “Bradley Must Go” thread?
I will say the only time you approved was when he was crushing in ST.
socalbob - September 18, 2009
In refusing to ADMIT he was injured
Soriano caused MORE damage. If all he needed was as simple procedure which he got he could have had it in late May when he started to fall apart and been back in a month If it was something more serious then he would have been out for the season perhaps but he played 75% of the season as an injured and BAD player. A guy who tries to play injured but can’t is causing a lot more harm than Milton to the on field performance.
Frankly I am surprised at the free ride being given Soriano for not admitting he was injured. It is too bad if he had a phobia about surgery and just really , really wanted to help the team, what he did caused incalculable damage. Look Sori is clearly a much more “stand up” guy than Milton but get past the personality and attitude issues and see what they actually did.
Doggie Stalker - September 18, 2009
agreed
N Oakley - September 18, 2009
A quite valid point.
daver - September 18, 2009
Just exactly
how do you know he didn’t admit he was injured? From what I have read, he reported hearing something pop in his knee back in the first month or so of the season.
As late as August we were being told he was suffering from tendinitis.
It’s not Soriano’s fault he was misdiagnosed and advised that some days off should take care of the problem.
I don’t know if you have ever had a torn cartilage, but I have – twice. It is very tricky. You will go along and your leg will feel fine, and then you step in hole or land awkwardly and it is like someone stuck a knife in you. 15 minutes later, it feels fine again.
I played almost an entire football season, which obviously is more physically demanding, with a torn meniscus. At times I could run fine, and then BAM! I was in serious pain. The tear was not diagnosed until I took another hit and tore it good and could no longer put weight on the leg. Before that, they kept telling me that if I rested it, it would be fine.
I can easily see where Soriano and the medical people would think he could play through it. It turns out they were wrong, but you can only judge that after the fact.
I think you are making a lot of assumptions that are not based on anything factual.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
I am making them based on watching him all year.
He was clearly in far more than a slump after mid may and he also clearly had issues with his leg. Now I grant you the medical personal and management share the blame but it goes to Soriano for not be willing to admit he could not play 100% or heck even 75%. It is important that he was bad at every part of his play so it was not like as many people thought he was just off in his swing etc. He was WAY off in fielding and running and despite previous cracks Soriano had been a decent fielder with a great arm. I understand that he is a great athlete and it is hard for him to fess up he can’t play but it is in the end HIS responsibility to be honest about how he felt and I don’t think there is anyway watching him all season that you can he believe he was.
Doggie Stalker - September 18, 2009
Well if you had bothered
to read what I wrote above, based on personal experience, you would be understand that it is likely that Soriano at times, maybe even most of the time, felt 100% or close to it. A torn cartilage is not something that nags at you 24/7 like a pulled hamstring or some such.
A lot of the time, it feels like you aren’t injured at all, until you step wrong and that torn piece of cartilage gets stuck in the joint. Then, it floats back out again. That is why they sometimes call it a “floating cartilage”.
I’ve experienced that, and thought I would have no problem continuing to play on it.
So, I contend that it was likely he WAS being honest about the way he felt. He would come to the ballpark and they would ask him how he was and he would say “Feel great!” And then he would go after a fly ball and step in a hole and pain would shoot down his leg. 15 minutes later, no pain. It happens that way, trust me. Others have confirmed this.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
so those times you were in serious pain, you didn't think you were injured?
and just because 15 minutes later you felt fine, you still didn’t think you were injured?
and when they told you to rest, it will be fine and then you stepped in another hole and the cycle continues, you still didn’t think you were injured?
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
Well I was young at the time
but to be honest, I thought that whatever the problem was, it was transitory. Like I said, the vast majority of the time, I had no symptoms at all.
It took a long time and many repeats of this cycle before I came to realize that there was an issue that wasn’t going away. Athletes tend to be like that. Plus, my Dr. was reinforcing this with what he was telling me.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
fair enough
I guess when you’re young, you do tend to feel indestructible.
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
I think that is also
true of an elite level athlete that has never experienced any sort of serious injury that required surgery. That first time is always a shock and there is an element of denial. My body has never betrayed me before, why is it doing it now?
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
and if that's the case here with Soriano...
then that’s where Lou, the coaching staff, and the medical
team failed for not finding out sooner the extent of his condition.
But they’re not mind-readers. And that’s where Soriano failed by not being more forthcoming.
He knows his body better than anyone. I have a hard time believing he was never asked some serious questions about his health. And if he gave them the standard “I’m fine. Everything’s okay.” responses, then Doggie’s got a point.
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
Oh and something else I remember
and this may apply to Soriano also. When you have those experiences of having jabbing pain when you step in a hole, etc, even when your leg feels just fine, you tend to run carefully… gingerly, even. It always seems like it’s when you are running flat out that something tweaks you.
That might be behind what some poster perceived as Soriano “dogging it”.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
One last bit
Which I should have posted before I went to lunch. This from Bruce
Levine on ESPN when Soriano finally went down for surgery.
“Chicago Cubs left fielder Alfonso Soriano said Friday that he’ll have an MRI on his left knee on Monday. The knee has bothered Soriano for most of the season, and he re-injured it three weeks ago. Soriano attributed some of his sloppy play in the outfield to the fact he couldn’t put much weight on the leg.”
Clearly he ( and the Cubs) were aware all season he was having a problem. It was clear to nearly everyone that he was basically not himself. I suspect based on my experience as non athlete that like lots of people he did not want to admit the level of injury because he probably convinced himself he could do the job anyway and he really did not want to have surgery. These are natural reactions but again the consequence of playing down the extent of the injury was devastating.
Doggie Stalker - September 18, 2009
And this
is entirely consistent with what I have been speculating.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
I don't dislike Bradley!
I feel about the same way about him that I do when I pass a nasty car wreck on the freeway
And I agree with you that he was brought in on the assumption that he would provide a type of offensive production that he was not suited to provide. I tried to tell Jessica that before the season and she refused to believe me.
But, if you looked at last year, and assumed that Milton was coming into his prime, then there was reason to think that he would.
But, you and others provide no substantial rebuttal to the complaints about Milton other than, ’he’s not that bad". Well, if that were the job evaluation I got, I would be pretty disappointed.
And FWIW, I don’t follow things on here that closely, but I know there have been extensive threads criticizing Soriano up down and sideways, questioning his heart, his commitment and everything else. What I haven’t heard is people saying he is a clubhouse cancer, a bad teammate or doesn’t give a full effort all the time, because there is no evidence of that, as there is with Bradley.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
You might want to retract this
There is plenty of complaining about Sori’s lack of effort, both this year and before.
About our defending of Bradley, it has been going on all summer long, so forgive some of us to keep doing the research and posting his stats and such. If you have the time, go back and read all the Bradley posts this summer and you’ll hear both the pros and cons of him there. Then you’ll get a flavor of the pro-Bradley people and where we are coming from.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
You know
I don’t need to read all the posts. I can see what Bradley has done with my eyes and no reasonable person can conclude anything other than he has failed this year. And not in a small way.
Regarding Soriano. Given the injury he had, any reasonable person would have to give him props for his effort. To continue playing him was not the wisest decision, but I don’t think one can question his effort.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
Just when I thought there was hope for you.
I know what my opinion is and I refuse to listen to anyone else that disagrees with me, because everyone else that disagrees with me is unreasonable. That’s the way you’re coming across.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
I think
you are the one with the closed mind. You have yet to refute anything I have said with anything of substance. If you want to believe that Bradley was a success for the Cubs this year, be my guest. But, nobody on the Cubs thinks that.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
Okay
now I challenge to provide somewhere where I said that Bradley has been a success for the Cubs this year.
Reading and comprehending will go a long way.
But, nobody on the Cubs thinks that.-and you have personally interviewed the whole team and management to get all these opinions?
The only thing you have spouted about is your opinion (and stated it as fact), I think this should be the point where we should agree to ignore each other as I don’t believe you have the capability of seeing another perspective.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
I'm sure
Lou decided to bypass Von Joshua and personally tutor Bradley because he thought Bradley was doing just fine.
Here’s what you have said about Bradley: “great batting eye, takes many walks, good hitter and plays good in the field. He is exactly the kind of player want for the cubs”
I suppose that doesn’t in your mind add up to saying he has been a success for the Cubs.
Get over yourself.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
read the words again
and see where it says he has been a success this year for the Cubs,
It could also mean he has had a down year but has the capability of doing better with the skills I listed.
geez, learn how to read, then comprehend and then get over yourself.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
I'm actually on jazzman's side of the fence, for the most part,
about Bradley. But that is exactly how he comes across.
It’s more about the argument itself than what is really being discussed. I refuted you, no I refuted you moar!
BleedsbluinMI - September 18, 2009
Topic drift...
Somewhere in the world, there’s gotta be someone named “Scott Free”. I wonder if he just cruises through life, day-to-day, without any worries or cares…
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
Maybe World B. Free's little kid brother
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
www.facebook.com/pages/Scott-Free/61643073377
N Oakley - September 18, 2009
That link doesn't work.
Try this one.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
Fair enough... "all of the venom" is an overstatement.
But for somebody who is only a small part of the problem with this team, Bradley gets a large part of the attention and blame. That, nobody can deny.
AndrewJStone - September 18, 2009
That, nobody can deny,
That, nobody can deny,
For…
N Oakley - September 18, 2009
Well in 2007
He left a bad taste in everyones mouth with that DP he hit into. But then again at Cubs Convention that year he was the most popular person there.
ak123 - September 18, 2009
Woo-hoo! Welcome to the Milton Club!
Glad to have you here! I’ve been waiting for you since the signing.
dtpollitt - September 17, 2009
Shut em' right up!
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Yo dtpollit, I'm happy for ya, and Imma let you finish
but SWLs juvenile jokes are some of the best ever.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
What.
dtpollitt - September 17, 2009
I don't know
I just felt like being smamy
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
I didn't actually mean anything by it
than a dig at SWL
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
I'm confused, but it seems like you n Rage here have been having quite the good time.
dtpollitt - September 17, 2009
Google
Kanye West VMA
Clutch16 - September 17, 2009
I have no idea what the hell is going on here.
dtpollitt - September 17, 2009
Like Clutch said
Google kanye west and VMA. You’ll see exactly what’s up.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
It's really a lot fun once you get into it.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
Yo dtpollit, I'm happy for a, and Imma let you finish
but cluelesness is best done by Phil Rogers.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
(dying laughing)
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - September 17, 2009
SWL
I didn’t know you sold your car.
Buzz on the Moon - September 17, 2009
SWL
I didn’t know you lived in Kansas.
Keith - September 17, 2009
SWL
I didn’’t know you were a mover
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
Are you three looking for a 4th?
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
I don't think you'd fit in.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
Legendary.
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Never forget.
Keith - September 17, 2009
Have you been reading every word?
I know I have!
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
Every single one.
Even, the, commas. Enough.
Keith - September 17, 2009
Dave Kaplan
Rage and Grace - September 17, 2009
(dying laughing)
Keith - September 17, 2009
Wow, what the hell happened to this thread?
MB isn’t a divisive figure at all. This thread proves that.
Keith/Rage/Moon, you guys aren’t nearly as funny as you are giving yourselves credit for.
BleedsbluinMI - September 17, 2009
I like to think so
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
coleslaw,,,commas,,(Dying laughing)
BleedsbluinMI - September 18, 2009
do you know why any of that is funny?
I doubt it, but I’d like to hear you explain it.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
Or at least funny to me/Kieth/and Rage?
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
No, I bow to your superiorness
(dying laughing)
BleedsbluinMI - September 18, 2009
It has nothing to do with that man
I’m just saying we’re enjoying the jokes were telling and you can choose to sit here and woof at us. That’s fine do as you please. It just won’t change the fact that we are having a good time.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
And yet we'll be banned for having fun.
Oh the wacky world we live in!
Keith - September 18, 2009
The Fuhrer will not stand for it.
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
I asked that question only to see if you were someone
we knew half playing along.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
oh yeah,
(dying laughing)
BleedsbluinMI - September 18, 2009
We're not giving ourselves any credit for it.
At least I’m not. I’m just enjoying myself. What’s the harm in that?
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
syphillis
I’ve seen it. It’s ugly.
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
I'm laughing.
And really, isn’t that all that matters?
Keith - September 18, 2009
Dying Laughing?
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
wow
just wow.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
I know, it needs moar cole slaw and commas.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
More sanity
more decency
more something
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
I just tried to follow the comments you and the other two meth addicts were posting...
and your calling for more sanity?
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
now that's not nice
Meth is a hell of a drug.
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
it's not just for breakfast anymore
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
Meth-O's
are great with skim.
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
Suprisingly good with a glass
of OJ on the side.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
You ever put it in your pop-tarts?
Dude. Out of this world.
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
Delicious
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
I prefer to stuff mine inside a live baby and then grill it.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
Dude seek help
Jesus Christ.
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
You are a very unique person SWL
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
lol good stuff.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
I read every word.
And I hate myself for it.
sitrick3 - September 18, 2009
Don't
It was fun.
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
Well it's been fun
I used to think you were just a misunderstand old man but the more I looked at it (after being banned for the first time) I simply realized you’re simply arrogant and narrow-minded. Is it really so hard to crack open a book at look at statistics?
This transcends most everything. What I did tonight was immature, sure, but honestly it was fun. It isn’t worth the time I’m putting into it. Stay classy, Al. I hope your fucked up sense of accomplishment and the drones of ignorant and stupid fucks you keep around you keep you warm. It’s fucks like what you’ve surrounded yourself here with that makes it hard for me to tell people I’m a Cub fan in the first place.
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
Actually You're looking for the phrase:
“That’s a Wrap”
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
SO CLEVER HURR
I’m borderline convinced that you don’t have the intellectual capacity to type more than fifteen words. You have to convey your nonsensical feelings by posting a slightly-related picture that you found after looking through Google Images for two hours since you have nothing better to do with your life. Hey, I can do that too!
Keith - September 18, 2009
Keith, you seem like a nice guy. You make compelling arguements and use good sources to back them up.
You don’t really know me, and as far as I can remember we’ve never had a conversation or been involved in a discussion here. It seems that a small contingent of relatively new people decided to use this tread to have some fun, some of which was at Al’s expense. I found most of it to be funny and enjoyed the ‘back and forth’ that occured. Having said that, let me assure you that when more than fifteen words are needed to make my point I’ll use them, otherwise I’ll just keep pissing people off with “slightly-related pictures”. If you care to actually stick around and participate in regular discussion here, I’m sure you’ll find most of us to be rational, regular people…except for daver, he’s bat shit crazy.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
Yep, that Daver is some kind of...
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
It's an honor to just be mentioned...
…in this Crash of the Hindenburg-esque thread.
daver - September 18, 2009
oh, the huge manatee!!!!
N Oakley - September 18, 2009
This is only missing the Jim Jones photo.
sitrick3 - September 18, 2009
So you have a hard time telling people your a Cub fan...
because you think the people that frequent a Cubs Blog are dumb? Weird.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
I guess I should have a harder time telling people I'm a canivore...
because I see fat people at the steakhouse down the street.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
Because as we all know, people who eat at steak houses inevitably get associated with the "Steak House Eating Nation"
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
There's the other thing....
the people who automatically assume that because you are “A” you must be “B” are not necessarily people who’s opinions I care a great deal about.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
Because Cub fans are fucking stupid
Which, in your case, is evident even here. Do yourself a favor and move all your shit into a cave.
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
Can you help me get it out of my mom's basement?
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
No sorry
I’m stuck in my own for the moment. I have to do the laundry.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
No it's much more complicated than that
SWV. It’s more that it’s really enjoyable to watch the Cubs as your favorite team, but some of the people here kinda make it embarrassing to admit that fact.
Some people like fried babies and some people like to be not crazy. It’s a free country after all.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
I just don't see how total strangers on the internet
can have that big of an impact on your enjoyment and pride in being a Cubs fan.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
It's not just confined to the internet
But it’s the perception of other fans about Cubs fans that makes it annoying to be associated with Cubs fans. I don’t really care all that much I was just explaining it.
I am of the opinion that a good deal of all fans of all sports are generally stupid when it comes to the intricacies of said sport. It’s fine, it really is. People have more important things to worry about in life.
Again this is sports and I just like to have fun in these threads. I love debating, even if it seems like I’m angry (well I probably am), but I’m still enjoying discussing these things.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
I like you.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
+1
Buzz, I think you’re spot on with your analysis here.
Not Bruce Froemming - September 18, 2009
Well, I'm a little diappointed in Al tonight myself.
He sure seams like Ahab going after Moby(Milton) here, but c’mon we are all here to talk about the cubs. And Milton is a very contentious subject around here.
Ignorant and stupid folks? Just uncalled for, dude.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
Agreed. It is the worst thing every done on this site.
sitrick3 - September 18, 2009
I was hoping the meth stuffed bbq baby was the worst thing. Man.
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
I missed that one, good stuff from deranged minds.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
I am still hoping that it is
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
You know Rage
It is Cub fans like you that I embarrassed to tell my friends about. Good Luck in life, I sure hope you find some peace.
Grockcubs - September 18, 2009
Holy Crap, I shouldn't have gone out for the night.
I missed all the fun.
Hey Al,(I know he’s sleeping) were you looking at your hits being low, and that is why you decided to take the swipe at Milton. Well 500 comments on a Thursday night is pretty impressive.
I expect some more contentiousness to continue tomorrow.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
I expect 30% more coleslaw jokes and a 75% increase of (dying laughing)
Anybody wanna take the over/under?
sitrick3 - September 18, 2009
Excellent
We met our monthly quota then.
Buzz on the Moon - September 18, 2009
Oh and......
Rage and Grace - September 18, 2009
honorable mention
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
Wow... you guys went to town
I see we have an NBF sighting as well.
Anyway, for those who think Paul Sullivan is the anti-Christ, Wittenmeyer’s S-T piece has a transcript of the Bradley exchange with reporters.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1777043,CST-SPT-cub18.article
Yes, because asking a player how long he think he will NOT be able to play baseball is not in any way a baseball question.
I’m sure his WAR and WARP and LARP and POOP ratings are great.
I’m also sure that most people connected with the team will be happy to see the ass end of this guy’s moving trucks.
Worf - September 18, 2009
LARP! POOP! LMFAOROFLBBQ
You don’t think he’s sick of hearing bullshit like this from reporters?
“Reporter: Lou wouldn’t do a postgame; that’s pretty rare for him.
Bradley: ‘’If I had a choice, I wouldn’t do it, either. What else you got?’’"
Imagine you have reporters on your ass 24/7 because people don’t like you for some reason even though you’ve ended up having a decent season. Would you want to talk to them?
Of course you wouldn’t. You would just make some inane point, say “fuck you”, and then leave.
Keith - September 18, 2009
NICE skipping! Really well done! Give yourself a LARP medal
How come players like Lee and Ramirez and Soriano and 99 percent of the rest of the world’s athletes have figured out that if you stand still for 30 seconds and answer the reporters’ questions, they go away?
It’s not that difficult a concept.
Bradley’s antics are unnecessary. And next year, he will be too.
Worf - September 18, 2009
as an aside
why would any reporter ask worf what he thinks – even once, let alone every day?
galloway0023 - September 18, 2009
And that is relevant how?
Worf - September 18, 2009
your expertise...
on media relations is, um, questionable at best.
galloway0023 - September 18, 2009
Who exactly is replacing Bradley's bat?
The Cubs have no viable alternative on the bench, and their payroll is already at 130 million. Trading Bradley would have to involve eating part of his contract to make him more appealing on the market.
Unless you think getting a 37 Bobby Abreu, Jermaine Dye, or Randy Winn is actually a better alternative, keeping Bradley and realizing he’s had a down season makes more sense.
Ozzie Montana - September 18, 2009
thank you for speaking the truth
to think it took a white sox fan to come set us straight
nji232 - September 18, 2009
What do you care who replaces him?
The moment he’s gone, you’re rooting for a 70-win season.
Worf - September 18, 2009
I'm not rooting for it
I’m expecting it.
nji232 - September 18, 2009
re: ability to field questions
+1 million. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp for Milton?
“I’ve had a couple knee surgeries, and I wasn’t running well. Before the at-bat, I told Lou I might need to come out. I ran to first, and it hurt a lot, so I left the game. I don’t know how long I’ll be out — hopefully, it will feel better tomorrow.”
I don’t get why he thinks the injury status of the team’s starting right-fielder isn’t a baseball question. The reporters weren’t asking about his personal life. The only thing that I could see him reasonably getting upset about was the question about a problem after he left the game.
elgato - September 18, 2009
You're all seeeing this in a vaccuum.
I will try to analogize this from Milton’s and our perspective. He sees the media as a whole as out to get him run out of here. (unfair as the whole-but spot on from a few that don’t want him here). So when he is curt with a reporter that means he has been told to answer quaestion and you can tell he really doesn’t want to do it. The reporters know this but they want a story, so lets ask Milton legitimate questions when we know he want to and yet we can get an even better story by his reaction. The reporters know he doesn’t want to talk to them and yet they keep pushing, you have to ask yourself why? Do they think he is going to mellow out with them?
Imagine if all the posters of BCB had to do interviews with BLou, now he can be a real big blowhard, but sometimes he can be spot on from a negative point of view. Now imagine that once and awhile what our reaction would be towards Blou if we HAD to do interviews with him. I imagine some of the interviews would go like yesterday.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
The phrase that sums up Milton's world is
“Just because I am paranoid doesn’t mean everyone isn’t out to get me”
Doggie Stalker - September 18, 2009
You say...
And when he gives the type of answers he gave yesterday, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Other players can be pleasant to reporters (even if they don’t deserve it), or simply politely decline to answer.
Milton doesn’t seem wired that way.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
Who cares if he's nice to the media?
That shouldn’t have any affect whatsoever on how he’s portrayed. That it does reveals a serious amount of bias.
These reporters want to feel like part of the “club” and when a player doesn’t let them, they’re burned at the stake.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
Reporters have a job to do
and players have no problem asking for favors from the media. If a player is not cooperative, or is surly, the media have every right to make that a part of their reportage.
If it involves a player who has a history of run ins with the media, fans, teammates, etc, then the media is bound to report that, too. And fans can draw their own conclusions about said player. See Barry Bonds.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
This is also where I blame Lou this year.
I am not advocating a blowup, but when he blows up or is terse with reporters, he becomes the story and not the players. Lou can very well shield his players from some of this spotlight, we have all seen the same quotes from him…“look what can I do?” That is pushing the reporters to lay the blame on the players and not the manager. Not very accountable.
The team has underperformed and Lou’s job is to get the most out of his team, he has failed to get the talent from his ballclub, and then he goes missing from his postgame or says “Look, what can I do?”
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
That's a pretty good point
I haven’t seen anyone else frame it like that.
Shanghai Badger - September 18, 2009
The media isn't letting fans "draw their own conclusions" about Bradley
They’re feeding people’s worst assumptions about him by portraying every little thing he does as something outrageously negative.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
I think Milton is doing a good job of that by himself.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
How? What has he done that's so bad this season?
You’re making mountains out of molehills, and then blaming the moles for the poor skiing.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
well, it's hard to ski when you're blind, duh.
BleedsbluinMI - September 18, 2009
Play baseball, for one.
Itchy - September 18, 2009
His EQA is .275
That’s just 14 points below his career average. So he’s had a slightly below average year for him. That merits this kind of bile?
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
What the hell is EQA?
Itchy - September 18, 2009
What do I look like, Google?
It would take you less time to find the answer than to profess your ignorance.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
It isn't even a stat used on Baseball Reference .com
so obviously it’s just another attempt by Saberdorks to try and justify how big of nerds they are.
Itchy - September 18, 2009
Don't worry...
…I have no clue what it is either, and I am damn proud of that.
MPH73 - September 18, 2009
You should try learning things sometime
Then you’ll really have something to be proud of.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
Ok...
…I’ll jump right on that.
MPH73 - September 18, 2009
Good.
When you’re proud of not knowing something Google could tell you in 2.5 seconds you’ve crossed the line between charmingly oblivious and willful ignorance.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
But, hey, it wouldn’t be America if we didn’t insult people who try to learn new things.
Ozzie Montana - September 18, 2009
Would you say EqA...
…is better than wOBA? Or are they two different animals? I’ve been looking at wOBA a lot lately.
daver - September 18, 2009
I'm no expert,
Whatever knowledge I have is gleaned from SSS, Fangraphs, or Lookout Landing (Mariners blog).
I like wOBA because it’s easy to digest and explain.
Ozzie Montana - September 18, 2009
I'm not sure which is better or worse...
They’re sort of similar. From explanations I’ve read of them I like the sound of wOBA better — it seems more rigorously derived.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/is-eqa-better-than-woba/
aldimond - September 18, 2009
Here's another one
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/why_is_eqa_so_complicated/
When I said “rigorous” what I meant is that in wOBA the average weights are based on average values of each outcome; in EqA they seem pretty arbitrary. And wOBA’s straightforward formula is appealing — in the absence of both good reasons for all the extra steps of EqA and good evidence that it’s better I think I’d go with wOBA.
aldimond - September 18, 2009
Thanks for the info!
I’ll stick with wOBA for the time being.
daver - September 18, 2009
That's because it's a proprietary stat of Baseball Prospectus
Again 10 seconds with google would tell you this
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
Either way
it’s a meaningless stat culivated by saberdorks to try and create arguments for anything they can cook up.
Itchy - September 18, 2009
I don't think "meaningless" means what you think it means
But then again you’re astoundingly stupid, so the irony of that would probably be lost on you.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
Knock off the namecalling.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
I'm not calling anyone names, just stating facts here.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
Hmmm.
You called someone “astoundingly stupid”. Namecalling, in my book.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
That depends - do you look like this?
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
Yowza!
I don’t feel that lucky.
N Oakley - September 18, 2009
Yea...
…but what’s his XYZ?
MPH73 - September 18, 2009
That isn't the media's fault
and that is where you and others are dead wrong about this. Bradley’s history, which cannot be ignored, meant that he is not going to be given any slack. That is just the way it works. People have been advising Bradley for years that he needs to be circumspect, because he has used up all the good will that we normally automatically afford to professional athletes.
But, Milton just can’t help himself. He has to act up. He has to criticize fans. He has to blame others for his failures.
Yeah, if Lee has done these same things (not that he would) we would probably cut him some slack. But, that is because he has been an outstanding teammate, member of the community and always acts like a professional.
Milton used up all his get out of jail free cards, oh, about four teams ago.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
You must've rooted for the sheriff in First Blood.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
"Why you pushin' me?"
daver - September 18, 2009
“I don’t think you understand. I didn’t come to rescue
RamboMIlton from you. I came here to rescue you from him. "KaliCub - September 18, 2009
I agree that if Milton was a different personality, some of this could have been avoided.
But just imagine our reaction if we have to interview with the likes of Blou, I’m sure the interactions on this board with him would come across ten times worse than what Milton’s did yesterday. Milton has a really large chip on his shoulder and sees himself as a victim, but just as Doiie said, that doesn’t mean some in the media aren’t out to get him. (yourself included)
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
If you are defending MB
by drawing a comparison with a guy who uses the worst language imaginable on a internet blog, you have officially run out of ideas.
This isn’t damning with faint praise, this is guilt by association.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
I am trying to explain how Milton sees the media from his perspective
and relating that to how some of us might react in the same way.
But hey, you are the official scorekeeper of ideas ( I missed when you were crowned that significant achievement) and we must bow to your opinion.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
You comments speak for themselves
You haven’t posted anything of substance yet on this topic. The last few are grasping at straws. Defending Milton Bradley at this point is like eating soup with a fork. You got nothing.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
Whatever dude, go grab a pitchfork with your captain.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
I agree...
…Bradley has some talent, but he was the wrong guy for the Cubs both physically and mentally, and it is all coming to a head.
If I was a GM or manager, I simply woudn’t want him on my team, period!
MPH73 - September 18, 2009
And you would be joining
an ever growing group of teams and GMs who feel the same way. Milton has burned a lot of bridges. If Hendry wants to move him, it will not be easy to find takers at this point.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
No, it is his lack of performance campared to the other left handed outfield FAs
Itchy - September 18, 2009
Bullshit.
Bradley was getting booed long before he even had a chance to fail, and long after he started to produce.
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
Slow learners?
Clutch16 - September 18, 2009
Didn't he get booed on the first homestand?
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
Yes
Wreckard - September 18, 2009
After he choked and threw a hissy afterwards
Itchy - September 18, 2009
Bullshit back at ya
No he wasn’t. It wasn’t until he got tossed for arguing strike 3 while batting .056 did the fans start getting restless.
Itchy - September 18, 2009
Yeah
Hitting .118 for the month of April will get you booed, even if you are Lou Gehrig’s grandson.
Especially when you are supposed to be the answer to last year’s shortcomings.
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
So Dlee was booed in April then?
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
I believe he was.
N Oakley - September 18, 2009
He was booed on this web site for sure
Itchy - September 18, 2009
And look how well that turned out.
A bunch of prophets, you haters.
AndrewJStone - September 18, 2009
I believe he was.
I remember him saying in a post game interview that the fans have a right to do so but they (the players) were trying as hard as they could.
sue369 - September 18, 2009
But was he specifically booed when he came to the plate?
Or was he referring to how his teammates were being treated?
I’ll leave room for being wrong, but I don’t believe Dlee was ever booed coming up to the plate.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
You are still out in orbit somewhere
DLee has all kinds of good will built up with Cubs fans by being an outstanding citizen, a quality teammate, a stand-up guy in terms of taking responsibility when he has struggled (like saying fans have a right to boo him), etc etc. AND being one of the top 1st basemen in the game. That goes a long way.
Now let’s look at Bradley. He goes after fans and broadcasters. He complains to the media that he is being mistreated. He is a crummy teammate (and before you jump on this one, this is based on multiple quotes from players who played with Bradley in LA and Texas), he disappears when the team needs him most.
And you think it is unfair that fans boo him, when he is hitting .118?
shaking head
azjazzman - September 18, 2009
Thank you!
And, rec’d.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
He might have been...
… if he’d have had a season like Bradley’s.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
but Al ...
his WPI (or whatever) isn’t that bad!
elgato - September 18, 2009
I can't remember if it
was coming to the plate but definitely leaving the plate.
sue369 - September 18, 2009
I think I remember the problem being
runner at third with no outs and not getting the run in. The crowd would boo when we didn’t score, whomever was at the plate.
I see that different than booing someone while they walk to the plate, even before they fail.
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
Lee took all sorts of abuse, on here, on the
radio, on TV.
There may not have been boos when he came to the plate, but there were boos when he struck out/grounded out, etc.
Further, the demands to get rid of him and/or bench him for Micah were loud and frequent.
N Oakley - September 18, 2009
I agree it is much different.
sue369 - September 18, 2009
he was booed in his first April here
elgato - September 18, 2009
HAFPAWAR 4 1B
jesus christos - September 18, 2009
Surely at this point we shouldn’t be surprised about Bradley’s lack of ability to handle the media.
Not trying to defend Bradley, but that line of questions does make it look like the reporter was trying to piss him off so they had something to write about.
MadHatterBlues - September 18, 2009
It wasn't like that if you watch the videotape
chilango2 - September 18, 2009
Not sure if you are joking here, but
a snippet of video can be taken out of context as easily as a snippet of text
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
Link please if there is a videotape possible
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
Hey, I'm just glad I'm not the main focus
of the attack dogs for once.
I was on vacation for about two weeks, including spending two days in Pittsburgh watching the Cubs. Despite the going-nowhere status of both teams, it was an enjoyable trip.
Sometimes Cubs fans get so caught up in the World Series pursuit that they forget why they became fans in the first place.
Not Bruce Froemming - September 18, 2009
LOL-your description of Fielder running to third was right on!
I was sitting on the 3rd base side. When I saw him make that dive I was seriously bracing myself for a tremor. He is surprisingly fast for a guy so big.
katie casey - September 18, 2009
he was flying around the bases -
I felt the tremors from his slide from my seat near the right field foul pole – it must have been scary facing that 747 coming in for a landing head-on
doofus cubs guy - September 18, 2009
I think it was at that exact moment ARam walked over and thanked Lou for giving him the day off... ;-)
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
Have they filled in the ditch next to the 3rd base bag yet?
Zeke - September 18, 2009
For what it's worth...
I found most of this discussion to be really disturbing. Everybody’s disappointed with this season but in the end, it’s still just a baseball team playing baseball games. This season didn’t work out the way we all hoped but there should be other stuff to focus on at this point. It’s possible that the Cubs could come back next season and completely dominate the Central without making a whole lot of changes. It’s possible that the Cubs could blow up the team and sign the best available free agents available and make the craftiest trades in the history of MLB and then totally suck next season. This stuff happens in life. I’m just having a hard time understanding the hatred that so many posters have for each other. I guess I’m just wired differently from most people. I hope the Cubs can have a respectable run to the end of the season and come back healthy next year. I’ll be stepping away from BCB now. Best of luck to all and have a good winter.
HoodooMan - September 18, 2009
You're going to miss all the recipe trading threads in the off-season!
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
and b rob updates
doofus cubs guy - September 18, 2009
and all the PV!!!!!!!!!!!! posts this weekend
ballhawk - September 18, 2009
were forgetting someone
but who….
jesus christos - September 18, 2009
LOL
too much good stuff
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
LMAO!!!!!
snley - September 18, 2009
test, test, 1, 2, 3, can I still post?
snley - September 18, 2009
santoswoodenlegs - September 18, 2009
last
daver - September 18, 2009
Dear God, I hope so....
carmen_fanzone - September 18, 2009
Patience.
Only two and a half hours till the game preview thread is up…
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
Hey, you got more traffic today and you started ti all. :)
KaliCub - September 18, 2009
Al, can you just post something else in the meantime?
A movie review? A book review? Thoughts on Kanye West? ANYTHING to get this off the top.
This is just ugly.
carmen_fanzone - September 18, 2009
Kanye West?
Sorry, Imma gonna let y’all finish.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
C'mon
There is something savagely beautiful about this thread. It’s like a David Lynch movie.
vonde6 - September 18, 2009
I knew when I logged on this morning...
…and saw 500+ comments that another Bradley Bomb had exploded.
daver - September 18, 2009
I hereby declare this a
For all the wrong reasons.
Clutch16 - September 18, 2009
LOL, awesome
daver - September 18, 2009
You're right Clutch....
all the wrong reasons.
carmen_fanzone - September 18, 2009
Hang in there, everyone.
Only 80 minutes left to pregame thread.
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
Frankly, I find this thread depressing
I think I’m ready for the offseason.
Not Bruce Froemming - September 18, 2009
I know I am.
sue369 - September 18, 2009
Same
That means getting to hear more Chelsea Dagger for starters.
Craig in South Bend - September 18, 2009
trying to follow this thread
makes my head hurt
jesus christos - September 18, 2009
The game preview post is up!
Al Yellon - September 18, 2009
That's great, y'all, and I'mma let you finish (your coleslaw), but I'mma
Clutch16 - September 18, 2009
You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Bleed Cubbie Blue to post a comment.