Bleed Cubbie Blue

I gave them a BCB card and asked one of the relatives to pass it along to Grabow. So John — if you’re reading here, welcome, outstanding game today and you’ve done a really nice job since the trade. We hope you stay.

one step closer to taking over the world muwahahaha

Has anyone brought this up?

Since there is talk about Stone for GM, what about Al for Manager? Anyone, Anyone with me?

no

eric hanna for GM, he knows who to get and who to trade

WELL D'UH!

THAT’S A NO BRAINER BUT SOMEONE HAS TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THE TALENT THAT ERIC GETS US. GET R DONE MR. RICKETTS

Kinda OT but guess who's played CF for the Brewers today?

The one, the only… Corey Patterson!

With McGehee at 3B and Kendall behind the plate, that puts the Brewers’ ex-Cub factor at 3. That’s obviously why they couldn’t beat the Cardinals today…

Actually, I just looked at the box score again and noticed Gerut was in RF, so that bumps it to 4.

And after further review, I see that Weathers is also on their roster, though he didn’t pitch today. Make it 5. I wonder if they’d take Miles to make it an even half-dozen…

Who wouldn't want to take Miles?

Everybody’s gonna have an extra case of sunflower seeds they can’t use at the end of the season, right?

No Miles nor Gregg=Cubs win.

It’s really not that difficult, now is it?

Shouldn't be.

As for Grabow (or any Cub) dropping by to say hi

Wouldn’t they be contractually-bound to only write on MLBAM-affiliated sites?

Contractually-bound? Really?

Dang, that’s stringent.

I'm thinking of their affiliation with MLBPA

And that part of MLBPA’s agreement with MLB would preclude them from writing directly for a site other than one run by MLBAM.

Bud Selig is the gift that keeps on giving

Especially to his old college roomies.

Makes perfect sense.

I'm sure they...

…could, say, drop Al an email, maybe do an interview. It’s not writing directly.

I'm sure that's perfectly fine

But doing things like a Q&A thread or just posting that Miles is a really great guy in the clubhouse could get them in trouble (I’m guessing).

He could just...

…pull a you know who, and say “he knows a guy, who knows a guy, who thinks Miles is the greatest thing to ever happen to the clubhouse. He’s exactly the kind of leader the Cubs have been looking for.”

Major league players have posted at other SBN sites.

Brad Ziegler at Athletics Nation and C.J. Wilson at Lone Star Ball.

Hasn't stopped that all-conference second-baseman from NIU from posting here ;-)

When that guy signs a contract with MLBPA

I’ll be far more impressed.

Why does Lou keep sittingJake Fox?

I mean Scales and Fuld have their talents, but with the offense overall stinking it up (besides DLee, who cannot win every game), how can Fox be on the bench for days at a time? I just don’t get it.

hes not a lefty

You making fun of Lou, yes?

Since Jake hits righties better than any left on our team (I believe). But ya don’t have to be a SABR geek to see that Jake adds runs to the lineup.

His defense is poor

His best positions correspond with our best offensive players, Lee and Rami

Chodes Jr - September 7, 2009 reply

I suppose, but when it's

Scales vs Fox in left, don;t you give up a little D and take the serious bat? Unless the rest of the team is tearing it up, which they are not. Is he that brutal in left?

That serious...

…bat is only currently capable of hitting a fastball. He’s got work to do.

Fox has put up this year's numbers

hitting “only fastballs”? But anyway, if he does need to see more major league sliders, etc., then dontcha need to play him?

Watch the at bats...

…where Fox strikes out, and see how ugly they are. I’d say he’s been “figured out.” Since his D his horrendous, you don’t play him while you are theoretically in the hunt for a playoff spot; his bat does not currently negate his inability to play D.

honestly, because Lou isnt a good manager

it’s pretty clear the game has passed him by, and he just doesn’t give a crap

Illicat - September 8, 2009 reply

ouch

carlos pena got hit by a pitch and has 2 broken fingers

Wasn't two guys hit in the head yesterday by pitchs?

Is it me or more batters getting hit recently?

i know owings got beaned infront of his family

Well, now.

This was a nice win. Quite nice.

Let’s see if D. Lee can keep up this impressive run.

Maybe a 40 HR season?

It's not impossible.

He could probably get pretty damn close. If he does get to 40, and increases the BA, I start to think about trying to resign him for one-to-two years, and allow him to retire as a Cub. Plus, it gives him a couple more chances at that second ring.

Carlos Marmol the closer is really good

IMO its all about him having confidence. When he was getting his brains beat in last year he took the challenge of the ASG and shut down the AL in his inning. After that he was confident and went back to being Marmol.

This year I think he was really pissed about not winning the closers job, in hindsight he should have been given the job right away. I’ll bet he began to question himself and then when he struggled it only became worse. When Lou named him closer he went back to being confident in himself because the team trusted him. I would say he’s responded to that trust by dominating.

when Marmol can "dominate" the Brewers and Cardinals

then we maybe we can say he’s “dominating”

cubnational - September 7, 2009 reply

What about when he closed out the Dodgers?

Pretty good team. Since being named closer he’s gone 5-5 in save chances and struck out 9 with only 3 walks again in save chances. He had the one outing against Washington where he gave up 2 runs bc of some bad control, but it hasn’t been an issue while he’s closed.

To add on this.

When we’re leading in the 9th and he comes in, I don’t get the same feeling I used to get when Gregg came in.

Devin B - September 7, 2009 reply

yeah

with gregg it happened so quick

The quiet dignity of Jose Valverde.

Marmol has still walked 6 batters in 7.1 innings since being named closer.

3 walks in a game where he entered with a 5-run lead, but you don’t count those. When do you want to throw strikes more than when you have a 5-run lead? I’m not convinced he’s found it, though he may be the best closer on the team either way.

aldimond - September 7, 2009 reply

Valverde

I see Valverde has already begun lobbying for free agency in Chicago…I for one would not mind.

airweino - September 7, 2009 reply

Ah, yes - just what this team needs

july 28th...

that was a much better time…

I wish we had the money

something tells me we wont

It is frustrating that we never beat him

If we could afford it, I would be willing to try joining him.

In all seriousness Al...

It makes me wonder if what Lee really needed was a day off or two?

I'm not sure

If a new baby in the house constitutes as a day off

Chodes Jr - September 7, 2009 reply

Probably could have used them in April as well

He got them then

Lee sat on 4/27 and 4/28 in Arizona.

Earlier might have been better

He spent all of April and half of May hovering around the Mendoza line and as I recall, the only time off he got was due to injury (neck). All I’m saying is maybe he could have benefited from a pain-free, take-a-break, clear-your-head day off or two.

And what's the latest on your upcoming "days off", Mr. Worf?

Still on shedule (as Piccard would say)?

Anytime after Sept. 13

That’s 37 weeks. Official due date is Oct. 11, but he’s measuring as a BIG Klingon Warrior.

I’m guessing Sept. 25.

Got a MAJOR case of the pregnancy lunatic today. I still couldn’t tell you what we fought about.

Cubs play Brewers on Sept 14-17 (here) and then again on Sept 21-23 (there)

So if Junior cooperates and makes an appearance during one of those games, I think you should untuck your shirt and run around the hospital and point to the sky. And you can tell everyone “This is Prince, son of Worf!”

Let's hope your good patient wife is a day early

and said progeny will be born on my birthday ~~- brilliant future guaranteed ;~~)

Emelie - September 7, 2009 reply

yikes I didn't intentionally strike that out! lol!

I think the gods are telling me something.

Emelie - September 7, 2009 reply

And if said progeny arrives on schedule, then it will be on my birthday!

Jimmyeatworld - September 7, 2009 reply

Wow.

Good luck to you and Mrs. Worf. You’ll enjoy a new baby… but it’s a whole different lifestyle, too.

Mrs. Worf is a Cardinals fan

We started dating in 2006. Cardinals won the World Series. Now, with our son being born…

I really don’t want the important milestones in my life to be marked by Cardinals World Series wins…

Shouldn't that be grounds for immediate divorce?

Right.

Mixed marriages like that… I dunno.

At least if she was a...

…Southsider, it’d be keeping it in the city. I might be able to understand that.

You have to understand...

She’s not a diehard by any means.

My wife’s idea of following the baseball season consists of this:

She asks me, sometime around Aug. 15, how far back/ahead are the Cardinals. If they are leading, only behind by 2-3, she gets interested, but only really enough to check the scores each night.

I told her the Cards were pretty much a lock for the playoffs and she said — hand to God, she said this: “Yeah, but they will get crushed when they go out of the division.”

When I told her that the Cards were possibly the best NL team — or at least up there with the Phillies — she was stunned.

If it wasn’t for the little Worfster, she’d be knee-deep in the playoffs. Now, she’ll just gloat if the Cards win it all.

Trust me. If she was as into it as we are, it wouldn’t have worked.

Cool! I hope everything goes well and that you are blessed with a healthy bouncing baby.

eths - September 8, 2009 reply

Of course Derrick's feeling energized

do you remember how much Pampers cost now?

cubnational - September 7, 2009 reply

Don't remind me

My advice to anyone in my situation:

Beware of the “Deal”

Take a calculator with you to the store. You aren’t always getting a good deal. When you’re burning through 10-12 a day, the difference between 19 cents and 24 cents a diaper matters.

"Burning" through?

What do you feed that kid? Chili rellenos with pineapple salsa?

cubzfan - September 7, 2009 reply

No Gagh

But it's not moving...

CubsWin!Oregon - September 7, 2009 reply

yet

cubnational - September 7, 2009 reply

You know...

if we win out the rest of the season, we’ll finish with a 95 win season.

We’re looking good and I like our chances! :) Bring on the playoffs!

Hear, hear!

Win out the rest of the season?

Is it all Pirates from now on? Because other teams, we have issues with.

Six more games vs. the Pirates.

That will help.

Rockies come back

to beat Reds 4-3….

cubswgnrocks - September 7, 2009 via mobile reply

Didn't see the game

today but listened to some of it on the radio. Nice work Derrek Lee. Ron said on the radio that the attendance was 13,000.

sue369 - September 7, 2009 reply

Don't most people go to Wrigley for the baseball experience....

….not necessarily to see the Cubs win??

I go for both

and most importantly to see the Cubs win!

LT - September 7, 2009 reply

Most people go for the beer and pick-up scene..

…twice I sat next to some people who didn’t even know who the Cubs were playing! It’s not the same as it was 40 years ago.

doofus cubs guy - September 8, 2009 reply

40 years ago the crowd would have been less than 5,000 and

the upper deck would be closed around this time of year

Yep.

Which is about the size of the crowd that will be in Pittsburgh tonight — and their upper deck will be open.

That's part of the problem

propheteer - September 7, 2009 reply

To the following fan:

“I Wish I Were A Detroit Lions Fan”

Trust me, you really, really don’t…

Zeke - September 7, 2009 reply

Statistically

like what Al wrote, they’re the worst ever in any major professional sport. At least the Lions made the playoffs 6 times in the 90s.

propheteer - September 7, 2009 reply

The issue with the Pirates...

… is that they don’t really seem to have any hope for 4-5 more years. The Phillies, who set the record from 1933-48, won the NL pennant in 1950.

And start the vicious cycle again...

Too bad, cause I heard PNC is a great ballpark.

propheteer - September 7, 2009 reply

It is.

I’ve been there before (2003), but I’ll write more detail about PNC tomorrow.

By all reports, they've stocked their system pretty well this year

If the ownership spends a little more cash than they did in the 1990’s, they could be competitive a lot sooner than 4-5 years.

doofus cubs guy - September 8, 2009 reply

Back when the Lions had a VERY brief run at respectability...

they actually made the NFC championship game and got trounced by the Washington Redskins. The Lions employed June Jones’ “run & shoot” offense and had Barry Sanders in the backfield. It was a swift, efficient offensive juggernaut.

After in the offseason after losing the NFC title game, head coach Wayne Fontes dismantled the “run and shoot” and insisted on adding a tight end. When the media and fans understandably wondered and then questioned why he was messing with something that worked, he said with a straight face: “We score too quickly.”

I washed my hands of the franchise after that.

Zeke - September 8, 2009 reply

sounds like clogging the base

wayne fontes = dusty?

Yep. I couldn't believe my ears.

Zeke - September 8, 2009 reply

Does anyone think that Lilly or Wells could be the 2010 Opening Day starter?

Yeah if Hendry is stupid and trades Big Z

otherwise no way.

Z? Without opening Pandora's box,

I politely disagree.

I think about it like this

Opening day starter is mostly a ceremonial thing. Z hasn’t done anything to lose that position. I don’t see Lilly caring about it as much as Z potentially would.

Why should Z care? He hasn't lived up to his contract this year.

Z hasn't lived up to his contract? You're out of your gourd.

Jimmyeatworld - September 7, 2009 reply

I agree on this

I thought you were pushing for Zambrano to be the Opening Day starter.

Completely hypothetical and not going to happen, but

What if they could get Jose Reyes and John Maine? Then would it be stupid to trade Zambrano?

If I were JH

I’d do that deal in a heartbeat.

propheteer - September 8, 2009 reply

A shortstop coming off a hamstring injury

and an oft-injured pitcher. The SS being due a huge raise after 2010 which negates any money you think you save by losing Z.

I want the Cubs to trade for Reyes, but yes that would be a stupid trade for the Cubs.

nji232 - September 8, 2009 reply

I'm not throwing that out as a cost savings

Trading Zambrano just for the sake of money would indeed be stupid.

Getting Reyes, though, who is only 26, would be a nice makeover for the infield and the lineup. Maine’s only 28 and threw 191 innings two years ago.

I think that’d be a pretty decent trade for the Cubs, but it’s not going to happen, anyway.

samardjiza 4 opening day!!

Now, come on...

dont worry

im sure hell perfect his curveball by then!

Marmol for opening day!

jake peavy for opening day

Had to be done.

AndrewJStone - September 7, 2009 reply

peavy pitching roberts at 2nd lind at right figgins at ss

sounds good to me

LIND IN LF

id rather have SORRYano

than that idiot BADley

Fox as DH

and Miles in a trash-heap somewhere

a modest season goal

Right now, I want them to keep winning, to finish with the best record that they can, well above .500. I want it to go without saying that they should be out there trying every day.

In their modern playoff appearances, starting in 1984, the Cubs have cobbled together a winning season, but it has never been something to build on. The next year, they seem just as likely to plummet off a cliff as to be in the race. As we build a winning tradition, it should be harder for each year’s team to remember a team that was not out there scrapping. It is not too late to keep a winning tradition alive this year.

I know that this is kind of nebulous. Does it help to think of it in terms of building a string of better than .500 seasons, kind of the opposite of the record that the Pirates just set? But I think that it is more than that. It is an organizational commitment that no player should want to let slip away.

Winning becomes a habit, just like losing does

I want to see the team win as many games as they can.

Winning is more likely...

…to become a habit when your organization is built on a solid and sound foundation (and I don’t believe the Cubs are). Winning becomes fleeting when you just throw money on top of a weak foundation, and that is what we have seen with the Cubs.

No disagreement there

Speaking of the foundation, how many players come through the farm system and don’t know how to run the bases properly, be in correct fielding position, etc.? That’s an organizational issue.

Still, I want the Cubs to win as many as they can this year. That doesn’t mean that everything is working.

If the Cubs can finish at .500 or better

It will be their third straight season at .500 or better. This has happened only 5 previous times in Cubs history and once since World War II (1967-72).

Yes, the chances of the Cubs making the playoffs are slim. But finishing above .500 for the third consecutive year would be nice, if nothing else because it’s something that people have never seen or seen once in their lifetimes (unless some folks who remember the run between 1926 and 1939) are hanging around, too).

Bill Potter - September 8, 2009 reply

DLeecious win.

Rick B - September 7, 2009 reply

This was one of those days

Where it was great to be on the west coast. The game started at 9:30 am. It was over in time for me to take my two daughters to the local art and wine festival to cap the end of the summer. Nice days.

Vermont Cubs Fan - September 7, 2009 reply

Goodness.

No wonder I missed today’s game … I was working! It turns out it started during my shift—I normally work evenings, but I was on a morning shift today.

I might be around tomorrow, though.

Not Sausalito

by chance?

They had a Labor Day Weekend Art/Wine fest I noticed when leaving on Saturday.

The E-Man - September 7, 2009 reply

The other end of SF Bay

San Jose

I had a similiar weekend, but from the other point of view.

I am a artist that does these type of shows. I had a booth at one in the Chicago area this weekend. My husband and I took turns listening to the game during lunch. The perfect weather and the win made it a nice day to be out there.

katie casey - September 8, 2009 reply

DLee #4 with RBI's in NL

That’s amazing considering our low run output.

If this team played at their potential Cubs would have a serious MVP candidate this year.

ak123 - September 7, 2009 reply

If he did this on last years team

He would have won the NL MVP

No one wins

the MVP, but Albert.

Sorry – but he can take over a game by himself in many ways.

DLEE has had a nice year, and certainly a GREAT comeback.

But Pujols is the best in baseball. How the Cardinals got Carpenter on the same team is pretty amazing.

They will have the Cy Young winner and MVP on the same team, imo.

The E-Man - September 7, 2009 reply

i agree

dlee is good, but hes no lord and savior

and that's saying a lot, coming from you... ;-)

I want you to say three "Hail Alberts"

For even thinking this…

Whatever happen to that guy

that was saying that Pujols couldn’t be Pujols since Holliday showed up and was taking attention away from Pujols.

“Dave’s not here, man!”

I'm saying if Lee had these numbers last season

He would have for sure been the NL MVP. Albert himself thinks you have to be on a playoff team to win MVP.

Of course the STL media was too far up his butt to call him out on that, but still. Lee going .295/35/115 last season would have gotten the MVP for a 97 win Cubs team.

yes, it would have

Agreed

Because last year Pujols and his amazingness couldn’t take the Cardinals to the post season.

And to be fair, if it wasn’t for some mid season additions, Cardinals would probably still be winning the division but not by over 10 games like they are right now.

ak123 - September 7, 2009 reply

Can't imagine how bad we'd without DLee

Lately seems like when he’s hitting, everyone else isn’t. Would be nice to get some production out of our outfield on as consistent basis.

Itchy - September 7, 2009 reply

Look at 2006 to take a gander

Sadly enough, the way the offense has produced it’s been 2006 numbers but with good pitching.

ak123 - September 7, 2009 reply

Was that the broken wrist season?

Itchy - September 8, 2009 reply

Yes.

It appears to have taken him this long to fully recover from the broken wrist.

I don't think...

…it would take Lee that long to fully recover from his wrist injury, but I do believe there have been a variety of other variables that has reduced his productivity.

The neck and back issues, I'm sure.

Which may also have resolved themselves by now.

Yep...

…and I would think the neck issue is going to keep creeping up on him for the duration of his career. You just have to hope it is something they can control when it does become a problem.

Two things need to happen

1) We need a quality 1B backup, so Lee can get rest during the season — And I’m not sure that guy is on the roster. The Hoff turned into a pumpkin and Fox is better served as trade bait to an AL team.

2) We need an offense that does not completely fall apart whenever Lee is out of the lineup. The offense without him for the two days he was gone was embarrassing.

Can't disagree...

…now the question is; how do you go about doing that, and what else needs to happen to assure the Cubs have the brain trust to get that accomplished?

Assuming it's Pinella and Hendry

Here’s what I do

1) Soriano’s contract means he’s going nowhere. Soto still has too much upside to give up on. You cross your fingers and hope they rebound. Not very proactive, but not really much else to do there.

2) 2B is the top priority for me. Fire Miles out of the biggest cannon you can find, and then reload and put Fontenot there too. Blanco has shown enough to have the supersub role for SS/2B. Use the Fontenot spot to find a real 3B backup. (Or use Fox)

I’d move Theriot back and go for a SS.

3) Ramirez needs a solid backup. If we can’t trade Fox, he’s shown enough there. (And he would be a better 1B backup than Hoff)

4) Bradley… Bradley… Bradley. If you can unload him, do so. We don’t need him to be a #2 hitter. We need him to be a #5 hitter. If he can’t do that, he’s not worth it.

If not, keep him as the #2 hitter and pray Soto/Soriano take over the #5 spot. I’d rather have Bradley than Theriot as the #2 hitter.

I'd move Soriano back at leadoff

If he’s not hitting I don’t want him at #5.

I know leadoff spot sees more pitches. But the fact is, leadoff spot gives you the least amount of RBI opportunities. I can’t remember how many times Soriano left men on base. I’d rather have Theriot bat #5. He might not have too much power but he has a high enough .BA where he’ll get the runners in scoring position over.

ak123 - September 8, 2009 reply

The real problem...

…is the Cubs have too many mis-fitting parts.

Soriano was signed to be a leadoff guy and his OBP sucks and he is too streaky to be a reliable set up guy for your offense. Theriot is a decent little hitter, but he really belongs in the 7th or 8th hole in a good lineup. Bradley was signed to be a middle of the order LH run producer and that is not what he is.

The problem is you are stuck with most of these pieces, and you do that best you can to make out a sound lineup. Moving Soriano back to leadoff would be a bad call IMO, and I sincerely hope it doesn’t happen. You don’t set a lineup based on fitting one player, you set it up for what is best for all 8 regular players.

As long as you are not solid in the 1 and 2 holes, you will always have an offense that is prone to have extended cold stretches, and I don’t see this issue being fixed until some of the dead weight is out the door.

Assuming no major changes

As in nothing done but the fringes — here’s what it should look like next year:

1 – Fukudome — JUST DO IT, LOU!
2 – Bradley — Have to make chicken salad out of him somehow
3 – D. Lee — All of you who wanted to get rid of him — SHUT UP! THEN SHUT UP SOME MORE!
4 – Ramirez – Lock him down
5 – Soriano/Soto — Whichever one gets it figured out first. When Soriano is right, he can be an RBI machine.
6 – Soto/Soriano – Whichever one doesn’t get it figured out first
7 – Theriot – His numbers are best at the 7th spot. Leave him there.
8 – Baker (If we get a real 2B, then this is Theriot’s spot and the 2B moves to 2nd and Bradley is told to shut the hell up and hit 5th like he was brought there to do)

Bench -
Fox – can backup Ramirez and Lee
Fuld – can backup all three OF positions
Blanco – can backup Theriot and Baker/2B
Hill
Reed Johnson – can backup all three OF positions as well

For this group...

…I would strongly agree!!!

Sure I can't convince you

That Theriot is the “real 2B” you mentioned? I’d love to see Blanco starting at SS next year, if he can figure out the whole “hitting” thing.

Clutch16 - September 8, 2009 reply

That'll be an interesting call.

Blanco will be 26 next April. He’s outstanding defensively. But he will have to hit in order to play more often.

If we could get Soto right

We could afford a light-hitting SS. A great hitting catcher is a luxury on most teams.

My feeling is that Blanco is valuable as the utility defender. He can backup SS and 2B (and probably could handle 3B and 1B)

I’d want him on the 25-man roster.

No problem moving Theriot to 2B

But we’d need a shortstop.

To me the keys are Soto and Soriano. If one of them can lock down the 5 spot, then it solves a lot of problems.

Or if Bradley can do it, you know, like he was paid to do.

So just to be clear...

Your SHUT UP! THEN SHUT UP SOME MORE! diatribe is directed towards Clutche and Al. IIRC, Clutche wanted to DFA him earlier this season, and Al suggested trading him last offseason. Anyone else?

Now I’m gaining some insight into how NBF felt about the DeRomantics….

ballhawk - September 8, 2009 reply

At least I suggested getting value for Lee.

However, I’m glad he was not traded.

There was an article in NY

Saying Mets should trade Jose Reyes and prospects for Derrek Lee to play for them. I don’t think that’s a good trade for the Cubs but what do you all think?

And yes I know the NTC, ignore that for sake of argument.

ak123 - September 8, 2009 reply

I don't think that's a good trade for the Mets

Lee is my favorite Cub and I don’t want them to trade him, but it’s a lot easier to find a slugging first baseman in his mid-30’s than an established shortstop in his mid-20’s. Throw in any prospect at all, and the Mets are overpaying.

Understood. And FWIW, I thought your trade idea would have been a good deal for the Cubs

I just didn’t think it was very realistic, given Lee’s NTC.

My reason for including you above was to highlight the ridiculousness of Worf’s diatribe directed towards those wanting to get rid of Lee. There can be very good reasons for getting rid of someone, as your trade idea would have been. There can also be some very bad reasons, as Clutche’s DFA idea would have been.

But I’m also tired of how apparently there was this whole army of people who wanted Lee gone via the DFA route. As far as I can tell, there was one – Clutche. Bell curve would suggest there might have been a few others, at most. Yet, a lot of folks here keep coming up with this idea that there were a ton of Lee-haters out there.

I enjoy a good “I told so” as much as the next person, but
a) I think this one is played out, and
b) the intended audience size is way way exaggerated

ballhawk - September 8, 2009 reply

During another thread

I went through the archives looking for some Bradley stuff. I found the thread right after he was signed.

The anti-Lee stuff there was more than one guy. Maybe only one guy has shown his face since then, but it was more than one

It is time to DeMote D-Lee.

While i agree with your general sentiment...

… the truth is somewhere in the middle. Clutche may have been the only “DFA DLee!” guy, but there were others looking to, at the very least, alter his role in a way that may have prevented him from contributing as he has in the second half of this season.

…it becomes more clear that D Lee is no longer a feared hitter.

When will Lee be moved down the lineup order?

I would never suggest that he gets benched; that would be stupid just cause he’s not an all star doesn’t mean he sucks and we know that his D is top notch, BUT there’s no way that he should be batting Third over ARam.

D-Lee Poll: What do we think about him now?

(General consensus with 60% of the vote was that his recent home runs had been surprising due to his unarguable decline.)

My stance on Lee (or a “Detailed statistical analysis of Derrek Lee”, as recommended by Al)

Add in slightly above average defense, an he would basically be a league average first baseman.

The myth that Derrek Lee is NOT declining…

Add this to the statistical evidence I’ve already given, and I think we can safely say that it’s time to gracefully show Derrek the door.

All of this doesn’t count commenting, which shows literally hundreds of examples of things like “Anybody who looks at Lee and doesn’t see a player in decline is wearing some major Cubbie colored glasses.”

And i think, really, the reason the DLee thing comes up so often is because many here are so quick to write off players who aren’t doing well. DLee is the prime example of what some patience can reward you with.

Nobody here knows if Soriano will return next year with a bum knee and a bad attitude. Its possible. Its also possible that he’ll return healthy and inspired. Shipping him off seems infeasible at best, and there is no reason people that suggest it shouldn’t hear so. If they want to argue that he should be shipped off at a high price to the club in prospects or cash because there is no chance he’ll ever contribute again (i’m painting with a wide brush here, granted) they should have to explain first why they think anybody would take him in that case, and second how they can possibly know that (with DLee as a prime example of a player who was written off by many and proved them wrong).

AndrewJStone - September 8, 2009 reply

Excellent rebuttal

I figured somebody would swing the pendulum back to where it probably should be and you didn’t disappoint.

I checked out all the links you included – many of them I don’t recall seeing at the time, probably because I was suffering from BCB overload back then. Also noticed a lot of users that I don’t see anymore. Infer what you will from that – probably the same thing I’m inferring.

So thanks for providing more context to the issue at hand. And especially for this part where you’ve articulated what I couldn’t:

And i think, really, the reason the DLee thing comes up so often is because many here are so quick to write off players who aren’t doing well. DLee is the prime example of what some patience can reward you with.

I think the over-reactionary nature of BCB is what was really gnawing at me. And that goes both ways – for the good stuff as well as the bad.

ballhawk - September 8, 2009 reply

Al, I didn't know you were going to be in Pittsburgh!

I would have come said hello today. Where are your seats tomorrow night? Arnold Palmer bobble head night,

Bricks and Ivy - September 7, 2009 reply

Send him an email.

zevkalman - September 8, 2009 reply

Correct.

I don’t know where my seat is yet… I’m picking up my ticket at will call. Email me and I’ll make arrangements to meet.