Jim Hendry has publicly stated that he wants to add another veteran arm to the bullpen (this despite the fact that the Cubs already have some good young arms in Esmailin Caridad and Justin Berg, among others). There have been several rumors flying the last few days about who this pitcher might be, so let's examine three of them.
This tweet from SI's Jon Heyman indicated that the Cubs had interest in Chan Ho Park, who did an excellent job for the Phillies last year after they yanked him from their rotation. Park was horrific as a starter, posting a 7.29 ERA in seven starts, but once moved to the bullpen he put up solid numbers. In 50 relief innings he struck out 52, walked only 16, had a 1.18 WHIP and allowed zero home runs. According to the guys I spoke to on the hotstove.com preseason roundtable discussion yesterday, Park occasionally suffers from "lack of focus", but if the Cubs can deal with that problem, he'd probably be worth having on a one-year deal.
Heyman's tweet also indicated the Rays are looking at Park. They're doing so likely to replace Joe Nelson, who, according to this Chicago Breaking Sports article, has expressed interest in joining the Cubs. Nelson pitched for the Rays last year after bouncing around from the Braves to Red Sox to Mets to Royals to Marlins for several years before that. He got hit pretty hard after the middle of May and was finally sent outright to Triple-A on August 1 and DFA'd (see, some teams actually do that!) in September. He's 35 and has really only had one good year -- his 2008 season with the Marlins.
Noah Lowry, who at one time appeared to be yet another solid starting pitching arm coming out of the Giants organization, has had a series of injuries and health problems, including being diagnosed with thoracic outlet syndrome, described at that link as:
arm numbness caused by pressure in the neck against the nerves and blood vessels that go to the arm
Nevertheless, 15 teams, including the Cubs, will reportedly watch a tryout for Lowry next Tuesday. I doubt the Cubs are looking at him as a reliever, but if he's healthy, he'd provide another fall-back starting pitcher option. Lowry is a sinkerballer who had two pretty good years in 2004 and 2005 before getting hurt. He last pitched in the major leagues in 2007.
So, what say you about these possible choices? I'm kind of "eh" about all of them, although Park might be a good signing, at the right price (i.e.: low dollars, not backloaded, one-year deal).
0 recs | 97 comments
Pitchers
I wouldn’t taking a chance on Lowry. Nelson is done! Please Hendry stay far far away from Chan Ho Park!
What’s the latest on Calero? Wants too much money?
cubsluver22 - January 28, 2010
Calero wanted a two-year deal.
Too long.
Why not Park? He was very good as a reliever last year.
Al Yellon - January 28, 2010
I agree on Park.
I would have no qualms about having him in the bullpen for one year if the price was right.
As for other two, no thanks.
DMCub - January 28, 2010
Agree on Park
I watched him out of the pen last year and he was actually good.
I still can’t forget that he gave up two grand slams, in the same inning, to the same player. That has to be something that will never happen again in MLB history.
gocubsgo22 - January 28, 2010
That was a long time ago.
Last year he gave up ZERO home runs once he was moved to the bullpen.
Al Yellon - January 28, 2010
1999, to be exact.
Linky linky
Both grand slams were given up to Fernando Tatis.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 28, 2010
I know but still that is an amazing statistic
gocubsgo22 - January 29, 2010
If its Park I hope its as a reliever and not for more than a year.
Lowry is the best talent if he is healthy. Still a huge risk.
We have far better young arms than Joe Nelson. Pass on him.
TJ11 - January 28, 2010
More depth in the field - Cubs pitching was (mostly) pretty solid in '09, imho.
In other words, none of the above.
eths - January 28, 2010
Once
Sheets got plucked off the table for way to much money, there really isn’t a pitcher out there that interests me.
Park is way to up and down, and the other two, no thanks.
Grockcubs - January 28, 2010
Of those three, I'd definitely take a flyer on Lowry
He could even be a decent pin in the rotation if he can rebound
Nunyabidness - January 28, 2010
Ugh ...
This is why I HATE spending money on middle relievers. Why spend $1.5 million (or more) on such unknown quantities? After Heilman last year and Howry in 2008 (yeah, I know he was good in 2006 and 2007), I say save the money for a midseason trade — IF a reliever is necessary.
elgato - January 28, 2010
What do you guys think
about the Padres picking up John Garland for 5.3 Mil 1 yr deal? And the Yankees bargain hunting for Randy Winn @ 2 Mil for 1 yr? Wonder where Damon will end up now.
tony412 - January 28, 2010
That's a lot of $ for Garland.
The Cubs got a better player than Winn, in Nady, presuming Nady is healthy.
Damon is rumored heading to the Rays.
Al Yellon - January 28, 2010
A lot of money for Garland????
Absolutely not. The guy has made at least 32 starts every year since 2002. He’s by no means a great pitcher, but he eats up innings and generally has his teams in games when he comes out. $5.3M for a guy like that is well worth the money.
jerry morales rules - January 28, 2010
Pitching in SD can't hurt either right?
tony412 - January 28, 2010
Crazy
It’s crazy what being mediocre gets you in MLB. Apparently, you don’t have to be “good” just “not bad enough” so that you are able to stay in games long enough to record a large amount of IP. To me, the term “innings eater” is synonamous with “mediocre”…and often worse…and for that Jon Garland gets the tidy sum of $5.3 million guaranteed.
The moral of the story…don’t ever get fooled into thinking the owners of MLB clubs aren’t making ridiculous amounts of money no matter what their “accounting income” might look like. Garland is indeed Exhibit A in that regard.
krummy12 - January 28, 2010
True, very true
There is so much cash flying around baseball it’s not funny.
He is a mediocre pitcher, one of many, and it’s like they win the lottery every year.
jerry morales rules - January 28, 2010
Yeah, but it's not really up to the pitcher....
…whether he stays in games. If Garland was as horrible as you’re implying, his managers over the past eight seasons or so would’ve been pulling him earlier and he wouldn’t have been amassing all those innings. Maybe it’s the underdog thing, but I have a certain regard for pitchers like Garland. Everyone can’t be Johan freakin’ Santana.
daver - January 28, 2010
I agree
I never cared for Marquis very much until after the Cubs virtually dumped him. Then last year I realized how valuable a 5th starter that eats innings and stays healthy can be.
BucknerKongCardenal - January 28, 2010
Maybe it's an intangible...
…but I think that kind of stability really benefits the team.
daver - January 28, 2010
Um
It’s worth remembering that the “mediocre” starter is still one of the 75 best starting pitchers in the world.
DGU - January 28, 2010
I liked the idea of looking at Winn.
But he was really bad last year, and his splits have been inconsistent, so it’s hard to know if you’re getting a player that can platoon with Dome or not.
DGU - January 28, 2010
..and it's hard to know if Nady's going to be able to platoon as well...
coming off the injury. I’m with you as one who felt Winn would have been a good, albeit risky, option. And at only 2mill, he would have been worth that risk.
carmen_fanzone - January 28, 2010
When it comes to depth arms like these
the information the Cubs will have that we do not have goes a long way towards telling us if the deal is good or not. But adding a little more depth to our stable of pitchers shouldn’t hurt so long as we don’t wildly overpay – which seems very unlikely.
DGU - January 28, 2010
only guy i'd give a major league deal to
would be park, and that would be limited to 1 year
all these other guys can be minor league deals
DartmouthCubsFan - January 28, 2010
Agreed
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - January 28, 2010
Yep, this sums up my feelings, too.
I wasn’t really familiar with Nelson until this story came out and his numbers aren’t impressive. Lowry would be an OK “injury flyer” to take at the minor league level, I guess. Park on a one-year ML deal would be acceptable.
daver - January 28, 2010
I'd rather the Cubs save the money and use it later in the season
than to spend it on any of these guys. If they signed Park, I wouldn’t be upset, but Nelson is done.
As for Lowry, how many 4th/5th starters does the organization need? Marshall, Wells, Gorzo, Samardzija, Silva.
jerry morales rules - January 28, 2010
hmm...
I think I’d rather see what John Smoltz has left in the tank than either of those three. I’m not sure we have either the need or the room to bring in another veteran arm. I’m more interested to see what Thomas Diamond, Gaub, and Caridad can do in spring training, and would like to see one of them with a chance to make the team.
Bradsbeard - January 28, 2010
I'd actually like that signing
John Smoltz proved to be an effective pitcher in the NL last season with the Cards. What would hurt for a one year deal?
Chanman25 - January 28, 2010
Then Maddox can help Smoltz develope into a better pitcher
Don't Fear the Reaper - January 28, 2010
What does a centerfielder know about being a pitcher?
Shanghai Badger - January 28, 2010
"Two thirds of the world is covered by water, the other third by Garry Maddox"
A great quote and 100% true.
BLou - January 28, 2010
rec'd
i have not heard that is years
Cubbie-Tim - January 28, 2010
I remember that quote, too.
From the late, great Harry Kalas.
Al Yellon - January 28, 2010
Pass on all three
At this point I’d rather go into April letting some of the young guys fight it out. I do think we have some good arms in Berg, Guzman, Caridad… At least enough to start the year with. One thing I’d like to see is some flexibility to make deals once June comes around. There will be a lot of guys available if our younger arms don’t come through.
Nibbles - January 28, 2010
Agreed on all accounts Nibbles.
Picking up any of these three pitchers seems like a move just to make a move. IMHO see what the young arms can do early on, set the rotation and bullpen once Lilly comes back healthy and give yourself flexibility to make adjustments during the year.
Tangled Up In Blue - January 28, 2010
Agreed
Not sure why people think picking up any one of these guys is a good idea especially when in addition to signing a mediocre guy, we will be blocking the development of a young arm
Musicdude10 - January 28, 2010
What you call "blocking"
others might call “protecting from a manager whose treatment of bullpen arms is infamous.”
DGU - January 28, 2010
Valid point
But in September Lou let some of these guys play. It could happen
Musicdude10 - January 29, 2010
Letting them play would be fine.
Jerking them around between starter and reliever, letting them rot on the bench w/o work these are the things I don’’t want.
DGU - January 29, 2010
Absolutely
But in Caridad and Guzman are set as relievers. At least Guzman is. If Caridad has an awesome ST, let him start by all means. But I don’t think you’ll see a Samardjiza situation
Musicdude10 - January 29, 2010
Park seems like the smartest choice, and least amount of risk
malicedoom - January 28, 2010
Caridad
Since you can never have too much pitching, Park would be well worth a try at the right price, but the Cubs should definitely give Caridad a chance. He not only pitched very well last year, but he doesn’t seem to be intimidated in the least by major league hitters. I’m really looking forward to seeing what he does this spring.
Mike Vails Evil Twin - January 28, 2010
Based on what was said at the Cubs Convention....
by Lou and Jim Hendry, Caridad will almost certainly be in the bullpen this year unless he completely bombs in spring training. The problem is that they have a lot of good young arms in the bullpen, but the key word is “young”. They have Grabow to set up Marmol, but they would like to have a veteran right-handed setup guy too. I know I’m treading into dangerous water here, but what about Silva? Based on the number of guys vying for spots in the rotation, there is a chance we may need him in the bullpen. I’m very wary of all three guys mentioned in this thread as possible relievers, but if I had to go with one, for the right price, I’d go with Park, who was at least healthy and effective last year.
ctcoff99 - January 28, 2010
I think that your evaluations
of both Caridad and Berg are terribly overrated, and apparently not even the Cubs themselves are drinking the Kool-Aid on that one.
Park is probably a nice value, and I’d be happy to have him. I’d pass on Nelson though. And as for Lowry, TOS is often misdiagnosed, and indicative of larger orthopedic issues. I would not give him guaranteed money right now, regardless of how good that workout looks.
Damen Jackson - January 28, 2010
Agreed
Nothing about the ML track records of either of those guys screams solid, dependable or valuable bullpen arm. At this point, they are just guys. Not to say Park isn’t, but he’s at least got a bit of a track record to show for it.
krummy12 - January 28, 2010
Can Greg Maddux pitch out of the bullpen?
Chanman25 - January 28, 2010
Only in the post season.
Similar to how LaRussa plans on using McGwire……..;
tville - January 28, 2010
A little OT, but does anyone know
if Kevin Gregg has been picked up by any team or has he ended up on the trash heap of baseball history?
JFCubFan - January 28, 2010
Free Agent
has anyone looked at his baseball reference page and seen who he is listed to be similar to
here are a few of the names listed
Joe Borowski (960)
Antonio Alfonseca (971)
Heathcliff Slocumb (965)
Antonio Alfonseca (971)
Cubbie-Tim - January 28, 2010
Who is that second Antonio Alfonseca?
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 28, 2010
Whoa...Gregg got paid 4.2Mil last year according to Baseball Reference
Now that was a deal born in hell.
Even a better one this year now that the Cubs won’t pay him the big bucks to blow saves in the late innings.
50% of his career MLB income in one year!? What were you smoking Jimbo????
JFCubFan - January 28, 2010
Last year of pre-free agency arbitration
DGU - January 28, 2010
A regular who's who of
Cubs relief greats! (sarcasm font)
tripdenten - January 28, 2010
Chan Ho Ho Kam Park
sure to be a popular guy in Mesa
TBru - January 28, 2010
They should rename the park that if he signs with the Cubs.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 28, 2010
Someone on Twitter pointed out to me...
…that Chan Ho Park’s nickname is CHoP. I’d sign him for that alone.
daver - January 28, 2010
What about Washburn?
I know he struggled in Detriot, however with a bad knee. Prior to that he was having a strong year in Seattle. He would come cheap I believe.
Grockcubs - January 28, 2010
Yeah, I havn't heard a lot about him. Maybe it's because of his knee?
Ryno Runner - January 28, 2010
Ivy
Sorry if this isn’t the forum, but, when does the ivy come in at wrigley? I’m a life long Cub fan in NW Wisconsin. I haven’t been there since 1989. My Daughter is graduating H.S. this spring and wants to go in the worst way this summer before college. She’ wants to see a day game with the ivy in bloom. Thanks!
Jasely - January 28, 2010
Hm, I'm gonna guess late-June...?
Al, who runs this site, goes to every home game, so he should be able to tell you for sure.
daver - January 28, 2010
Yes, I can!
The ivy usually begins to peek out in early May. By late May it’s pretty full, you’re generally guaranteed full ivy by about the 1st or 2nd week of June.
Al Yellon - January 28, 2010
Pitching is king
And right now the Cub rotation and bullpen are dubious looking. Therefore I fully understand Jim Hendry’s mission to identify help. He is locked into shopping in the bargain bin however.
A rubber arm in the pen would be nice.
BLou - January 28, 2010
What rotation are you looking at?
The only unsure thing is the fifth spot
Musicdude10 - January 28, 2010
Well...
pending Lilly’s return.
We all trust Ted will come back full strength… but you never no.
fsuapollo - January 28, 2010
Ted Lilly IS strength.
Al Yellon - January 29, 2010
Any time you are kicking the tires of Carlos Silva to round out your rotation, then you have problems
Right now the 4th and 5th spot in the rotation is a “competition” between Silva, Tom Gorzeleanny and the spectacularly overrated Jeff Samardizija. How’s that for humbling. And God save the queen if Ted Lilly doesn’t eventually come back to full power or Randy Wells proves a one year wonder.
The bullpen? Right now there is question on who will be the closer as well as three full fledged job vacancies that need to be filled. That is problematic. The success of this bullpen hinges signficantly upon John Grabow in my estimation. Which also is humbling.
BLou - January 29, 2010
Carlos Silva was in the rotation of two Twin playoff teams,
a 92-win team and a 96-win team. So, clearly, “any time” you look at Silva doesn’t mean you can’t be successful. I say this not because Silva is himself good, but because he won’t even be close to the deciding factor of whether this team is a 90 win team or not.
Plus, I think, realistically, he’s behind – at least – Parisi on the 5th starter fight. We’re more likely to use Silva as the Phillies did at the beggining of his career than as the Twins or Mariners used him. I know you think Marshall’s nothing more than a bullpen arm, but Marshall’s almost certainly ahead of Silva for the 5th starter job, too.
Here’s my order of likelihood for the opening day rotation with their MARCEL projected ERAs:
Zambrano 3.84
Dempster 3.76
Wells 3.66
Gorzelanny 4.77
Marshall 4.17 (rel)
Parisi 4.64
Silva 5.36
Samardzija 4.60 (rel)
I go back and forth on whether or not Parisi is actually more likely than Marshall, because I think for Marshall to make it, he has to do well and Gaub has to make the club, but Parisi has plenty of doubts as well.
DGU - January 29, 2010
What does the (rel) mean?
Forgot about Parisi though. He’s certainly going to get his chances in ST
I think it ultimately goes to Gorz though
Musicdude10 - January 29, 2010
Ah thanks - I meant to clarify that -
by (rel) I meant to identify pitchers I thought Marcel was likely projecting as relievers. Their ERAs would go up in starter roles.
DGU - January 29, 2010
Gotcha, thanks
Marshall’s seems kind of high if he’s still in that LOOGY role. I’d love to see him pitch a few more innings though. I still think he can start FWIW but I don’t think he’ll get the chance on this team
Musicdude10 - January 29, 2010
He may be getting projected as a swingman.
DGU - January 29, 2010
Hm, interesting list.
Sounds about right, though I might put Marshall ahead of Da Gorz and move Parisi to the end because he’s a Rule 5 guy. It would be cool if he came out of nowhere to be this year’s Randy Wells, though – especially because he came from the Cardinals.
daver - January 29, 2010
Unless you think Lilly will take longer to get back
giving Parisi a 4-6 week chance makes a lot of sense to me. That way you keep the other guys in the roles you expect them to have all season. I don’t like St. Louis’ starting depth, so, as you pointed out, there’s double incentive to hold Parisi. I don’t think Parisi will be as good as Wells, but he doesn’t need to be.
DGU - January 29, 2010
I've taken a firm vow not to panic about Ted Lilly.
If nothing else, it’ll be fun watching all these arms in spring training and seeing who puts himself in the best position to win a rotation spot.
daver - January 29, 2010
There is no question about the closer
Marmol. Done. The end.
Lilly will be fine. He didn’t have TJ surgery or anything that would effect him long term. Maybe some rust. That’s all I can think of.
Z, Dempster, Lilly, Wells, Gorz. The end. That’s fine by me. Maybe you make a trade midseason. Maybe Mitch Atkins has a hell of a spring training. Maybe you find someone in ST that is willing to take a minor league deal. There are plenty of options. Wait until the team has moved north to make such presumptions
Musicdude10 - January 29, 2010
but you forget that
lilly is 47
jesus christos - January 29, 2010
what question
do you think there is on who is going to be the closer? It’s Marmol. Lou has said it’s Marmol. Jim has said it’s Marmol. It’s Marmol
drewishdrewid - January 29, 2010
Ha, didn't even notice that.
Yeah, there is no question on who the closer is.
daver - January 29, 2010
Chan Ho Park as a Cub?
Why not, the guy always pitches like CY Young when he faces us. If he is cheap, I would do it—but his #s will be worse if he can’t face the Cubs. :-)
(typing this outside on my laptop as it is a beautiful and clear 65 degrees in West LA)
LAcarl519 - January 28, 2010
Hey guys take a look at that Randy Wells fanpost
Chanman25 - January 28, 2010
Ooh, I'm intrigued.
daver - January 28, 2010
its purty aint it
makes me want Jell-O
Cubbie-Tim - January 28, 2010
TWSS
daver - January 29, 2010
Park
Park it in our ballpark. Knows how to pitch, and to use him for fewer innings so he can focus on his best stuff, get the guys out that he’s got to get out. Sounds like it has potential. The other two? I don’t think so.
waiting4cubs - January 28, 2010
This headline is the answer to the question 'are the cubs serious?'
Ryan D - January 28, 2010
Please
no more recovering athletes.
tharr - January 28, 2010
I think they're all recovering in one way or another.
daver - January 29, 2010
Pedro !
Doggie Stalker - January 28, 2010
I WOULD LOVE THAT
Seriously, if his price drops (the only reason he’s not signed IMO), get him in some blue
Musicdude10 - January 29, 2010
Al...
I’d argue that Lowry’s 2007 campaign was his finest. He posted a 3.92 era with a 14-8 record in 26 games started. I’m worried that (a) he’s been out of baseball for two years and (b) he’s only pitched over 200 innings once in his life. I don’t know if I see this as much of an improvement over other 5 starter possibilities already on the roster (Gorzelanny, Marshall, Samardzija).
In Piniella We Trustiella - January 29, 2010
Even just for a spring training look?
On a minor league deal?
Al Yellon - January 29, 2010
Eh
Non guaranteed sure. Other than that no thanks. The guy was a 5th starter to start his career. Two years out of the game later, if he can return to that form, you still have better options, like IPWT said.
Musicdude10 - January 29, 2010
I could be wrong
about this but I suspect that either Marshall or Gorz will be traded (along with a prospect or, perhaps Hoffpauir) for a RH 8th inning pitcher. The Cubs would love to have Heath Bell or someone similar. I still think Hendry has one more move up his sleeve.
BarryLB - January 29, 2010
Yeah, I still have a funny feeling one of those guys could be trade bait, too.
daver - January 29, 2010
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