Bleed Cubbie Blue

Okay wow.

Touchy.

cubswynn - July 22, 2010 reply

Didn't mean to be touchy.

Just explanatory.

How many Hall of Famers have become successful managers?

Just curious.

In reviewing obvious qualities...

…most organizations would want in a manager, the fact that there haven’t been successful HOF players who have managed should not factor in. Every candidate stands on their own merit and should be judged as such.

With that said, if you look at qualities that most successful teams look for in a manager, there are probably better candidates out there than Sandberg. That doesn’t mean he won’t one day be a good manager, but you do your homework in regards to who will fit best for you.

If I was Ricketts, I would make a major play for Girardi as my first choice. They guy understands what the Cubs are about, he has won a championship, has proven he can handle a big media town and is young and energetic. For what is already known, I believe Girardi is head and shoulders above anyone else who may or may not be available.

If I was Ricketts, I would make a major play for Girardi as my first choice. They guy understands what the Cubs are about, he has won a championship, has proven he can handle a big media town and is young and energetic. For what is already known, I believe Girardi is head and shoulders above anyone else who may or may not be available.

This is all true. However, Girardi is under contract to another team and may be so into November — past the time the Cubs would want to hire someone.

If for any reason the Yankees let him go — sure. But that is extremely unlikely.

Again...

…if Girardi’s dream job is to manage the Cubs (it may or may not be) there are ways for him to get word to the Cubs that he has significant interest (this happens all the time).

If that happened, the Cubs would be foolish to not wait for him to finish his season to talk with him.

I am pretty sure that is tampering

I doubt the Cubs can have talks with Girardi while the Yankees season is still going. Not to mention we would probably have to give the Yankees compensation. I think the only way Girardi comes here is if he is fired.

I think tampering is only for things regarding players.

Still, this would be extremely uncool to do DURING a season.

Whatever it is... the Yankees are the one franchise I wouldn't screw with on this

their lawyers eat other lawyers for brunch

That's a picture I'd rather not see.

Like Kobiyashi!

“POW”

you've actually seen him eat a man's penis?

joeschmitt - July 22, 2010 reply

It happened in overseas waters

He could just talk to LeBron for the best ways around being caught.

ha...

the players themselves met to decide where everyone was going…there have been numerous reports to that effect…I hate basketball…all of it

Their very thinly disguised bs answers about that

are particularly irritating to me and many fans, the backlash showing this. I heard Wade try to say the other day he first knew of the decision “a few minutes” before LeBron stated it. Right. The public does like spectacle, but not being lied to continuously. Especially when doing so made it so that many teams and cities completely altered their teams to accomodate a decision that was made long before with a distant hope they were honest. I’ll never root for those guys to win a game of horse after this.

Your not getting what I am saying...

…the Cubs would have no communication with Girardi at all, it would be Girardi would put word out (through confidential back room people) that he is interested in talking with the Cubs after his season is complete.

This stuff happens all the time, and it may or may not be something Girardi is willing to do unless he feels strongly this may be his opportunity for his dream job if it is important to him.

I misread your post

I thought you said the Cubs would be foolish to wait until the season ended to talk to him. My mistake.

Presuming the Yankees would grant permission.

Which they likely wouldn’t. I don’t think teams operate that way — especially Jim Hendry, who has respect for his peers and it’s returned to him. There’s no way the Cubs do this.

We have a communication gap...

…the Cubs woudn’t need permission because they wouldn’t be contacting Girardi.

Hendry would never contact Girardi because he doesn’t operate that way, but if a guy has significant interest in a job (and he knows it is open) there are ways to quietly let that club know he may have interest.

The other point is this, if the Cubs don’t hire another manager until the WS is over (if the Yankees are in it) just doing that sends a message to Girardi they want to talk with him (without contacting him in anyway).

You know this isnt the last year in Girardi's contract, right?

And that to come to the Cubs he would need to be fired from the Yankees?

Nevermind - I need to learn how to count.

Quietly?

Sure. But again, I don’t think this happens.

It may not...

…but is sure has happened before when someone wants a job bad enough.

Girardi is a bit of a long shot and depends more on him than it does the Cubs. If the Cubs somehow knew he wanted the job, I don’t see how they couldn’t make him their top target.

At the end of the day, it will probably end up being Sandberg. My fear is, it wil be for the wrong reasons.

but hasnt Ryne

proven that he can manage? If I am remembering correctly he has a pretty good record in the minors…

Unfortunately

I like Girardi best, too, but if managing the Cubs is his dream job over managing the Yankees, he may need to be disqualified as delusional.

Could Hendry hire Girardi?

He had his chance to hire him in 2006 and sent Girardi away. Why would Girardi want to interview with him again.

If Hendry is doing the hiring, I think Girardi stays in New York unless the Steinbrenners fire him.

ClarkFan - July 22, 2010 reply

why would there be a rush to hire a manager?

It seems like with Hendry clearly being on board, and the new manager probably being told that his hitting and pitching coach was on the staff

HuskerCorner - July 22, 2010 reply

How far do you want to go back

Obviously Frank Chance and Bill Terry were successful managers. Cap Anson. In the early days of baseball, the best player on the team was often also the manager. So there are a lot of examples before 1950.

In recent years, Frank Robinson is pretty much the only Hall of Famer to manager. He’s generally considered to be a good manager, although in 16 years he never finished first with any team.

Yogi Berra had some success. Ted Williams was never any good.

Red Schoendienst...

…. although he wasn’t in the HoF until after his managing career was basically over.

Good example

But as you said, Red wasn’t a HoF as a manger except for a short interim job with the Cardinals in 1990.

But there isn’t some fine line that says the experiences of a guy who falls just short of Cooperstown, like Joe Torre or Gil Hodges, is somehow different from that of a guy like Sandberg or Robinson. Other than if you think players will pay more attention to a guy who has “Hall of Famer” before his name.

I will give Ryno this

I don’t think Yogi or Robinson came up through the minors, especially not to manage their own teams.

Both started

as player/managers. So no.

Williams went 86-76 with an expansion team

in 1969, good enough for Manager of the Year. Just sayin. I know the guy was an impatient jerk for a manager.

The 1969 Senators weren't an expansion team.

They were in their 9th season — long enough to not be considered “expansion”.

It was the only year Williams managed that his team did not lose 90+ games.

You are correct sir.

They were the re-incarnation of the original Sens, who moved to Minnesota. This is the team that became the Texas Rangers.

That's correct.

The 1969 Senators WERE an expansion team — they were created in 1961 when the original team moved to Minny. My point is that by 1969 they were too old to be considered “expansion” any more, especially since that year there were four NEW teams.

I know, I was confused,

I wasn’t born until 15 years after 1969 :)

But I was mistaken on the year the new Senators were conceived.

The Royals and the Seattle Pilots

were the AL expansion teams in 1969. The Pilots became the Milwaukee Brewers the next year, of course.

Don Baylor

went 88-74 with the Cubs in 2001. Just saying.

Interestingly enough...

… Baylor, though he did have major league managerial experience before he came to the Cubs, was almost exactly the same age when he was hired, as Sandberg is now.

2001 Cubs

had Sammy Sosa in his prime, it was hard not to win 88 games with that group.

They had Sosa's best season

and pretty much nothing else. Still, I wouldn’t credit Baylor for the record.

Especially when you consider the Cubs record in 2000....

and 2002 before Baylor was axed. Baylor was not a disaster as Cubs manager, but I would not consider him a huge success either. But up until about early August in 2001, the Cubs looked like world champions.

ctcoff99 - July 22, 2010 reply

better question

will the Cubs screw this up?

You forgot the word "How."

I vote Ryno

Let me also make this point.

IF somehow Joe Girardi became available, and the Cubs hired him, I think Sandberg could wind up as his bench coach, and I think Sandberg would accept such a position.

I would like that scenario.

What do you think the chances are that Maddux becomes the pitching coach next year?

Jessica would love that.

But it won't happen.

Not in 2011, anyway.

I think Sandberg may accept that position too

unless he were offered a managerial position somewhere else? Is that a possibility?

He said he is open to managing elsewhere if he does not get the Cubs job.

Ryne was on Des Moines TV last night

no way he takes a bench coach job

what about Ryne MGR,,,Bob Brenly as Bench Coach….

If Sandberg is named manager, Trammell may stay as bench coach.

Which would be fine with me.

And that might be

the greatest DP combination ever to sit in a dugout together.

or Ryno and someone else that has MLB MGR experience.

If we get Girardi...

and Ryno isn’t willing to stick around, then bon voyage.

I think if Ryne

is manager, at least I would, he would seek the advice of Brenly…be good to get a perspective from high above from someone who has experience…

That's what I heard too.

But do you think he’d be offered something somewhere else?

Maybe.

You don’t want this to wind up as another Scioscia situation.

Exactly. That's what I'm concerned about.

Here's something obvious that we've missed...

If the Cubs somehow land Girardi, that means the Yankees would be looking for a manager – and they would be looking at the same pool of candidates the Cubs are. The Yankees probably aren’t going to hire Sandberg, LaRussa, Torre or Valentine. They would be foolish to let Girardi go. He stays with the Yankees. Sandberg is the new Cubs manager.

DKT - July 22, 2010 reply

Interesting.

Hadn’t thought about that. They might also consider a Yankee icon — Don Mattingly.

Mattingly is the favorite

for the Dodgers job. Would he leave for the Yankees job? Probably, although his son does play in the Dodgers system. But I don’t think it’s a slam dunk. He was a little miffed that Girardi got the job instead of him.

True enough.

But if the Yankees called, I think he’d go.

Doubt it...

…I would think Sandberg would want his own gig and I’m not sure any manager the Cubs pick would want a fan favorite like Sandberg in the dugout with him. If the going got tough, it would create all kinds of speculation and the Cubs themselves should not put the new manager in that position.

Also, bench coaches tend to be more seasoned veteran baseball guys and Sandberg doesn’t yet fit that bill.

Not all bench coaches fit that bill.

Joey Cora, for one.

Don Mattingly

for another. Joe Girardi’s first season coaching was as Torre’s bench coach, if I remember correctly.

Correct...

…but most of them do, or they are drinking buddies of the manager.

That's why Dusty Baker never had a good one while he was here.

It doesn’t mean it has to be that way.

Sinatro!

Nay

SINESTRO!

is it possible

not saying this would happen just curious – that the Cubs could trade a player for a manager? Formally or informally?

You do know, don't you, that Lou the manager was, essentially, traded for a player?

When Tampa Bay wanted him, he was still under contract with Seattle. The Mariners let him go, but got Randy Winn in exchange. Officially, Winn was traded to Seattle for Antonio Perez, but the real deal included Lou.

Chuck Tanner

was traded from Oakland to Pittsburgh for Manny Sanguillen, too.

Mike Vails Evil Twin - July 22, 2010 reply

I did not know that

Lilly for Giardi?

hansman1982 - July 23, 2010 reply

You forgot to put Bruce Kimm on the list

alabamacubbie - July 22, 2010 reply

Nice summation Al. Sandberg is the right age for the job,

still relevant to young players and not “old and tired”. Announce the move in mid-September while he is an extra coach at the end of the season. Let him hang with Lou for a few weeks. Like it or not, Lou has a great baseball mind and Ryno could learn a few things.

mrcubsfan - July 22, 2010 reply

Definitely Sandberg

If nothing else, it’s a damn good bet he wouldn’t stand for any loafing or sloppy fundamentals.

BTW, does anyone know why Jim Lefebvre after an over .500 finish? That doesn’t make much sense unless there were personality issues involved.

And NO WAY NO HOW to Bobby Valentine. That sounds like and idea some nitwit sports writer floated just because he couldn’t think of anything else to write that day.

What's he going to do if Ramirez loafs?

Make him do 25 pushups like Willie Mays Hayes? Puh-leaze.

Mike Vails Evil Twin - July 22, 2010 reply

I'm sure there are other ways

There are always spankings and time outs.

And you sound a little crankier than usual today, Worf. Maybe you should have Guinan get you a nice glass of prune juice to relax you.

I'd pay to see that!

BTW…spankings? sounds like a Python Holy Grail sequence…though without the girls in nightgowns, nauseating :P

Well, the Cubs are a BAD fundamental team

and they’ve been pretty bad for a number of years. Sure, much of that’s down to FAs and trades, but it’s not like the players that have come up through the Cubs’ system have been anything to write home about in that respect. Given that Sandberg’s been managing in the system for four years, are the young players that he’s worked with any better fundamentally than those that have come through in the last few years?

This is a serious request for information from people who observe the minor leagues more closely than I do. To me, this is a major concern about appointing Ryno.

Limey Cub Fan Jay - July 23, 2010 reply

Ryno on so many levels

He knows the system/players coming up who are supposed to be, need to be, a big part of Cubs’ future. He played fundamentally sound baseball. He’s paid his dues. He’s young enough that he can be long-term to build and grow with. And you won’t have to pay him a fortune. Here’s a thought: add $500 K bonuses for winning division/making playoffs and each round of playoffs for possible $2 M bonus to a low base. Give him 3 years with team option for fourth

Posted elsewhere is the solid thought that he should embrace Cubs’ culture/history and name former teammates like Jody Davis, Maddux, etc. to key positions on staff (for those interested and qualified). We have tried going outside with the big names like Lou and Dusty and come up short. Embrace your past and learn from it is an alternative that just might work. When is last time an ex-Cub of any note took the reigns? It’s time. 2nd choice is Girardi (agree he won’t be available) with Ryno as his bench coach. Torre is way too old and tired don’t need another Uncle Lou.

QuincyCub - July 22, 2010 reply

I like they way you're thinking.

Jody Davis is a +1.

mrcubsfan - July 22, 2010 reply

Davey Martinez?!

The mere mention of him coming to manage the Cubs ( a job Sandberg so obviously wants) makes me guffaw.

Again, I worry about putting a legend into a role where, as you indicate, the person so often gets fired. I also thought his ejections/anger looks manufactureed, as he was soooo mild mannered as a player.

Fredi Gonzalez gets my vote.

I only put Martinez on the list becasue he was mentioned somewhere in a comment here.

Obviously, the chances of him ever being hired here are zero.

I mentioned Martinez

I had forgotten about the rumors. If they are true, or even if they aren’t Martinez won’t get the job over Sandberg. Aside from that he is a good candidate.

I voted Girardi, but, if he's not available then Ryno definitely.

I went with the first person that came to mind

which was Bob Brenly, although I would like to see Sandberg be the bench coach. Since Brenly has the best job in the world seemingly, I doubt he shakes that up. If I could vote again, I’d choose Ryno, but again, I went with my first reaction.

And I didn't vote Girardi

even though I wanted him for the job in 2007, mainly because there’s no way the Yankees let him go.

The only way Girardi isn't managing the Yankees next year....

… is if they have a collapse and miss the playoffs, or a quick playoff exit. Neither is likely.

That would depend...

…how important it is to him to manage the Cubs.

What would depend?

How well the Yankees do? You’re saying he’d tank the season so he could manage the Cubs?

There's no way anyone on that team lets someone tank the season for them

None. There’s no one in the front office that would let that happen either, so yeah, I equally puzzled by MPH’s remark.

Not at all...

…am I saying he would tank the season. Only that he can let it be known (through back channels) that if the Cubs are willing to wait, he may be interested.

That much, I suppose could happen.

But again, Girardi has a job he’s contracted to do, and if he doesn’t do it to the utmost of his ability and focus, that would call into question his abilities as a manager.

I'm agreeing with you here in that I think you mean

That if Girardi were to exit early in the playoffs, he may be willing to hire on with the Cubs. And that is possible though not likely to find out about in advance. Still, he won’t sign a contract and it’s a pretty …difficult or unwise thing to depend on a guy that may win the WS or play in it, and expect that he’d sign with the Cubs afterwards. I don’t see that happening.

Or if he'd rather manage the Cubs

Everybody seems to think the Yankees hold all the cards here. Not so. Girardi’s contract is up at end of this season and maybe, just maybe he’d rather manage the Cubs. Managers can be free agents too…

You're probably right in that assumption of NY keeping him, but,...

I like the thought of Girardi just for the fact that in Florida he had the “stones” to stand up to the owner and GM. It just appeared to me that in the past couple seasons that Piniella wasn’t totally calling ALL the shots on the field as far as lineups go. The Cubs don’t need a “yes man” for the job. They need a hard nosed, fundamentally sound leader who has the “my way or the highway” attitude. That’s just my opinion.

I didn't vote for Girardi for the same reason

In my mind at this date he isn’t a realistic candidate.

The job Bob Brenly did managing

in Game Six of the 2001 World Series disqualifies him from ever managing again. They ended up winning the series anyway, so no one remembers it. But I can’t imagine anyone wanting Brenly to manage after that game.

Yes, Brenly has a rep for dumb moves as manager

As Levy said in the booth yesterday (after singing the stretch), moving from the coach’s job to TV analyst automatically made him a lot smarter. Bob Brenly agreed wholeheartedly.

What happened?

Brenly by far is the top choice....

…he is more familiar with the Cubs than anyone else on the list through his years of broadcasting.

I like BB too

But there is a difference between commenting and doing.

Correct.

Relatively easy to talk knowledgeably and glibly about baseball on TV. Not so easy to manage 25 egos in the clubhouse and dugout. Two different skills.

It bothers me that Brenly

never got another chance to manage. I get that he was kind of holding on for dear life in 2001 and nearly caused his closer to commit suicide, but still, he did do what Showalter couldn’t.

And that's the thing

about Brenly. His strongest qualification as a manager is that he’s not Buck Showalter. Showalter had that veteran team wound up so tight that they wouldn’t dive for a ball for fear that their hat would fall off and they’d be fined for being out of uniform. (OK, I exaggerate. But not by much.) Brenly told the guys to just play ball. He had a talented enough roster that they could overcome Brenly’s other flaws, once they were told to just play.

And now he's kind of remolded his persona

into Showalter-lite with his harping on fundamentals on-air. You’re right. Bad idea.

It's hard not to do that though

considering how poor the Cubs play has been this year.

Meh.

I think BB has a lot of qualities that a manager needs, is knowledgable, and is willing to make tough decisions. I wouldn’t mind him being my manager for sure, he’d be in my top 5. But I’m not sold on him being great with the Dbacks…he rode two HOF pitchers to a WS ring that were very dominant that year, able to pitch most of the games with superhuman like abilities to avoid rest. I like the guy,like him as a manager… but I’m not convinced his managerial abilities did more than anyone else would have the year he did win the WS.

and he has a great mustache.....

…which seems to be a prerequsite for championship winning managers in Chicago.

Jackson, Ditka, Ozzie and Q…..

One quibble with the opening theme

Let’s say Lou said, “Look, I want to manage two or three more years. Anita told me she doesn’t want me around the house all the time. I think I have a lot more to teach and we have some great kids coming up.”

Do you think he’d have been extended? I don’t. So, I consider this “a retire-fire”

Really, no one on that list trips my trigger except for Brenley, Sandberg or Girardi. But, I have a few quibbles about Sandberg:

1) We have to stop worrying about the next Scioscia. Yes, he won with the Angels, but it’s not like the Dodgers have been chopped liver in the last 10 years. It isn’t Sandberg or fold, Al.

And where is he likely to go if not the Cubs? Arizona? Baltimore? (that may be Showalter’s to lose) Cleveland? Pittsburgh or Houston?

There isn’t a World Series victory in those teams’ future. Only if we grab Girardi and Sandberg gets the Yankees job (unlikely) am I going to worry about Sandberg managing in October with the jobs he’s likely to get.
2) I’m tired of hearing about how Ryno would be “slapped” in the face. That was four years ago and unless he was promised something, then he’s got nothing to complain about.

If he was promised something, then that’s just one more pox on Hendry.

3) The owners have to have iron-clad balls to hire Sandberg because they may have to fire him. In fact, it’s more likely than not they will have to. Steinbrenner was willing to fire one of the Yankee legends, Billy Martin, to get the ring in 1978. I hope Ricketts has those kinds of balls.

Detroit hired and fired Trammel....and he's the Sandberg of that franchise.

And Baltimore...

risked pissing off Cal Ripken for good by firing his father. Some teams do it.

I worry we wouldn’t.

I agree with what you put up there , all of it.

I do worry we wouldn’t fire him, and I also worry with people seemingly putting so much worry about this that we would also fire him right away when the Cubs suck next year as they will. Girardi or Brenly would be evaulated solely based on their merits as managers, and until this team has a real chance of competing, there are a lot of reasons not to hire Sandberg in my mind. I’d still put him in my top 3…Girardi, Brenly, and Sandberg.

Agree on the firing aspect

Especially when you counted Durocher as a firing, I don’t see how you couldn’t count this as a firing, or at the least leaving under adverse circumstances. Lou is done here. That was plain for all to see.

This was the same as Dusty's sendoff, really

I agree but for opposite reasons

To me, Lou and Dusty are similar situations but I don’t think it’s fair to say either one was fired. Assuming something drastic doesn’t happen the next few months, both will have served out their contracts. That’s all. They weren’t fired.

Sure

Either way you look at it, this send-off isn’t unprecedented for 50 years.

Sure it is.

It’s somewhat similar to Dusty, but without (most of) the acrimony.

Was there acrimony with Durocher?

Your comments seem to indicate there wasn’t.

There was acrimony...

… between Durocher and most of his players; by the end of 1971 there was an all-out mutiny that nearly got him to quit then, but PK Wrigley took out an ad in the papers backing Durocher. Wrigley was likely the only reason Durocher survived past 1969 — most GM’s would have probably fired him then, but John Holland couldn’t do it because Wrigley liked Durocher.

Huh

Well, I plead ignorance as to anything before Don Zimmer getting fired. Are you placing the distinction between Dusty and Lou on the the relationship with the front office? I wonder what would happen if Lou actually wanted to come back. Lord, if we had both Hendry and Lou back for 2011…..

Yeah, that's what I meant

No Ryno

No experience at the MLB level, if his name was Larry Smith, he wouldn’t even be mentioned as a candidate and has never won anything in his career. We need a proven winner, not a sentimental favorite.

Who is your alternative candidate?

We have gone the proven winner route the last 2 times and that failed.

At least they made the playoffs before imploding and ending in disaster.

Hire Brenly with Ryno as his right hand man, if Ryno balks, let him go manage KC and we can hire him in a few years after Brenly wins the WS.

Says the guy who has complaining about Lou all season

No thanks on BB. I have read plenty about his tenure in Arizona that tells me he isn’t a good manager.

They say that about Girardi too.

It was time for Lou to go but I felt he was the best hire at the time(07) and I was all for it. Once he started to show his true colors, I admitted I was wrong and wanted him out, which he should have been after the ’08 playoff debacle. What the hell, hire Ryno then. then we can continue to look like boobs by hiring the hometown hero so we can sell out the annual Kool-Aid Festival, aka the Cub Convention.

Girardi?

That would be a great hire. If he is available, definitely a superior candidate to Sandberg. But, other than that I don’t want a Valentine or Brenly re-tread. Hell, both of those guys aren’t even as good of candidates as Piniella or Baker were at the time they were hired.

I don’t see how the Cubs would like like boobs for giving Sandberg a chance. Sure, if they hired him with no experience, that would look dumb. But after working for 4 years in the organization, it’s a fine move.

Actually, that's not true.

Because Pat Listach is also a good candidate.

Good candidate, yes. But he has no chance to get the Mgr job

but I like the idea of him coming on as a bench coach. I’m not totally against Ryno as Mgr., just leery because of the total lack of MLB experience.

Plus we need somebody with more intelligence

I just do not think that Ryne Sandberg is an intelligent man. He might be a firebrand in middle-age. He might have a good grasp of basic baseball strategy and line-up construction. But I do not think he is intelligent enough to dig himself out of the various situations a major league large market manager faces.

It’s not because he’s a HOF player. It’s not because he has no big league coaching experience. Greg Maddux is a first ballot probably 98% vote HOFer (there’s always a d-bag) and has no coaching experience, and he would be my absolute first choice.

On the list provided by Al, I’d go Gonzalez, Girardi, Listach.

Invalid User - July 22, 2010 reply

I have no idea how you can know that.

People seem to be judging that by the lousy interviews that he gave as a player and thinking that was because he wasn’t very smart. I just don’t think that follows.

No kidding

I had no idea so many people had gone to school with Ryno and could assess his intelligence so precisely. Smart enough to make managerial moves, but not smart enough to be a big-market manager.

I don't know if he took the SATs

and I don’t care. As it happens he is not my first choice but I certainly don’t question his intelligence. Odd that you say he has a good grasp of line up construction and strategy as those are probably the top two skills a manager needs. it is pretty clear Ryno has a good relationship with players so I am not exactly sure what you are questioning.

Doggie Stalker - July 22, 2010 reply

If his name was Larry Smith

he wouldn’t have gotten the chance to prove himself in the minors the past four years. Them’s the breaks. But he did and he has.

Ron Swanson - July 22, 2010 reply

Out of the options listed, I went with Trammell

He’s not quite the ideal choice, but considering the fact that Jim Hendry will be around next season and we’ll likely see the returns of Larry Rothschild (who could be another managerial option) and Rudy Jaramillo, Trammell would probably make for the easiest transition out of any of the other options. He’s been with the team since 2006, knows the players, and I think his experience as a HOF-caliber SS (seriously, good look up his numbers compared to other shortstops in the Hall) could really help the development of Starlin Castro.

I really think he got the short end of the stick in Detroit. He clearly was well-liked during his time there and I don’t think you can blame him for how badly that team played. Why not give him another chance?

Outshined_One - July 22, 2010 reply

I agree with you.

I also follow the Tigers and I felt awful he had to take the fall for the bad teams when he was manager. I was glad he got hired as the Cubs’ bench coach, and I think you broke down the reasons why he would be a good choice perfectly.

Not that I have anything against Sandberg but I don’t think Cubs fandom would handle it well if he got the job and things didn’t work out.

owllover711 - July 22, 2010 reply

Sandberg

The Cubs have set this up so that they basically have to give him the job. There are other candidates that I might prefer (Martinez in particular), but considering there is no slam-dunk hire (outside of Girardi who would be nuts to leave the Yankees) I think they may as well give Sandberg a crack at it.

By most accounts (I think NBF might be the only one to disagree) he has done a nice job in the minor leagues. He has gotten experience and paid his dues. Contrary to what many here believe, I don’t think you need to be a Rhodes Scholar to be an effective major league baseball manager. Double-switches aren’t rocket science. I bet if you lined up the IQs of MLB managers Sandberg would be right in-line with the average. I think the most important job of a manager is to be a leader and to command the respect of the clubhouse. In that respect I think Sandberg would be an excellent choice.

As far as in-game strategic decisions, I would prefer a more stats-oriented manager than Sandberg appears to be, but I don’t think that is a dealbreaker. I think we could be looking at a period of rebuilding, and now is the perfect time to take a chance on a boom-or-bust candidate like Sandberg. He is nearly as likely to succeed as any other rookie managerial candidate and if he does succeed it would be all the more sweet.

If someone can come up with something concrete about why he would be a bad manager. Something beyond just he argues to much or he isn’t that smart, I am all ears. But otherwise, he seems to possess a perfectly acceptable resume and given all the intangibles involved seems to be a good choice.

Perhaps this is all just rationalization for the ultimate decision, because I think he is about as close to a lock to get the job as there can be.

Maddux NOW!

mdcubsfan - July 22, 2010 reply

You do understand that he doesn't want to do much with baseball

for the next few years, right? Didn’t a bunch of us tell you this yesterday?

oh i understand completley

and i didnt mention him yesterday…i know he won’t be a coach but that would be awesome if he wa

mdcubsfan - July 22, 2010 reply

He does not want to work full time so he is not an option

but he certainly does want a lot to do with baseball. I don’t think he can help himself in a way.
He loves baseball too much to stay away from it despite all the money he has made and his content off field life. He had said initially that he planned to take a few years off before doing much of anything with baseball but that did not last long.

Doggie Stalker - July 22, 2010 reply

BB FOR MANAGER AND STONEY FOR GM

THEYRE REALLY GOOD IN THE BOOTH AND KNOW STUFF

Anti-Rec

I know you are kidding. But, I want BB in the booth and Stoney on the South Side.

BUT IF BB GETS THE MANAGERIAL JOB THEN GRACY CAN TAKE OVER IN THE BOOTH!

Yet another reason to keep BB in the booth.

How about BB in the dugout and LOU in the booth?

above sarcasm

Gotcha

Gosh, I hope so.

Did you hear Lou during his year on Fox in 2006? He was horrific.

but if he was in the booth

everyone would hear the great wisdom he shares with cubs fans!

"What kind of baseball do you play?"

"I really don't get why Girardi is having this Rivera guy face Ortiz. Rivera's a right hander!"

I don't get the personal attacks

They bothered me at the end of Dusty’s tenure and they bother me with Lou. It hasn’t worked out for Lou this year, but I don’t really like the cracks at his age or intelligence.

Like a lot of great baseball minds

Lou is pretty hideous when it comes to actually TALKING about baseball.

There are a lot of great baseball people who are bad announcers. No shame in that.

Oh sure

I agree that Lou is a bad announcer. I may have been jumping on something that wasn’t there, but it seemed like some of these comments were in the same vein as the attacks on Lou’s age/intelligence that have been way too frequent lately.

"Look, What do ya want him to do?"

NO

LOL

So do I.

SBNation should come up with an anti-rec button

Turn it red or something. I should email them or something.

Reminds me of Engadget's

“This comment has been downgraded into oblivion. Click here to view the post.”

Now that button would be used 10 times as much on here as rec.

Anti-rec?

I can see that one getting used by people if they can’t sense sarcasm.

I'm anti-anti-rec.

katie casey - July 23, 2010 reply

pro-anti-rec here.

Emelie - July 23, 2010 reply

I think it would end up getting abused

to insult people.

katie casey - July 23, 2010 reply

it would for sure

but that hasn’t stopped anyone from doing so without it ;-)

Emelie - July 23, 2010 reply

this is true

katie casey - July 23, 2010 reply

Also, how is Byrd NOT a candidate for this position

After such a well thought out fanshot, I figured he was a shoe in for the job.

I think you have to go with Sandberg

And I voted for him. But making Brenly or Trammell the next manager or at least finding a spot for them in the dugout would not be bad at all.

Bobby Valentine would be a horrible decision.

Joey Cora wouldn’t be a bad idea but you have to go with Trammell before him simply on the basis that he has been a manager before. Beyond that he should have a good understanding of the organization and a good rep with players

Now I pose this to you, BCB: If Girardi were available, would you want him over Ryno?

Musicdude10 - July 22, 2010 reply

I don't think so.

I like Girardi, but I’m not as high on him as some people are. I think he stepped into a golden job with the Yankees after some tough up and down years.

My order would be:

Sandberg
Brenly
Girardi
Gonzalez
Trammell

Girardi is under an immense amount of pressure in NYC and has handled it well

Yes he has immense amounts of talent around him. So does Lou. I think people don’t give him the credit he deserves. Look at what he did with those horrible Marlins teams

Musicdude10 - July 22, 2010 reply

You can't compare the Yankees talent with the Cubs' talent.

The Yankees are better at essentially every position, and often by an order of magnitude. If the two teams were to merge their players and re-draft, current Yankees would be the first several picks.

D98 - July 22, 2010 reply

Yep, After Lilly as the clear #1 pick, it's a bunch of Yankees in a row.

I think I would take Girardi first, yes.

He’s got major league managing experience, a ring, and connections to the Cubs. IF available, he is probably a better choice.

Trammel was 186-300 in 3 years with Detroit...

calling him a “former” manager is really stretching it.

OTOH....

… Trammell took a horrific team and improved them by 29 wins the next season.

Yes, and then one win LESS the next year. A 62-100 average for 3 years of managing ...

should seal ones fate.

he'd fit right in

True dat.

Anyone planning on our manager to lead us to 100 wins next year shouldn’t be close to being involved with a choice. Whoever gets the job, the team will suck next year. I think the same can be said for Girardi with the Marlins…the team was bad, he did as well as he could have in that situation. The Yankees obviously agreed so I’m not the only one. I don’t know much about the condition of the Tigers when Trammell managed them, but saying his record was bad by itself surely shouldn’t be a universal rule by any stretch.

How do you figure?

Next year’s lineup:

C: Soto
1B: ?
2B: Theriot/Fontenot/Baker/Barney
SS: Castro
3B: Most likely Ramierez
OF: Colvin, Byrd or Brett Jackson, Soriano

Rotation:
Dempster
Wells
Cashner
Two of the following: Zambrano, Jackson, Gorzellanny, Russell, Atkins, FA

I think that’s a competitive team. Really you have to go sign a 1B and probably a starter. That’s not horrible

Musicdude10 - July 23, 2010 reply

My first impulse was to say I would want Girardi.

But on second thought, if he was available that might mean he did something truly horrendous for the Yankees to not want him back- in which case IDK if we’d want him either.

Something "horrendous" to the Yankees is...

NOT winning the World Series. It seems they have higher standards over there.

Then we need to raise our standards.

Agreed

How do you know...

…he wouldn’t want to make the choice himself to manage the Cubs instead of the Yankees?

I don't.

It would be great if he chose the Cubs.

Just to clarify...

…unless management actually PROMISED (in writing) the manager job to Sandberg 4 years ago, they have no obligation to hire him. He gets a slap in the face and moves on. In 4 years, the situation has changed, there are more viable candidates available and this would be the wrong time in my opinion to bring in an unproven entity. The fact that he is a Cub icon would add even more pressure to the situation. IF Hendry does hire him, give him no more than a 2 year contract. Brenly says he is interested-give him his shot.

My preference would probably be

Joe Girardi, Bobby Valentine, Fredi Gonzalez, or Tony LaRussa. I don’t really see the Cardinals letting LaRussa leave, though, and Girardi, barring a stunner will stay put in New York. Fredi will probably take that Braves job if it is offered. I’m not completely sold, after the Dusty/Lou era, that we’ll walk the Bobby Valentine road (particularly since most indications are that it would take a lot of money). Gut feeling is that Joe Torre isn’t the right fit and that he might not come here.

After Olney’s comments earlier this year, I think we should keep Mike Quade in mind (also Chip Hale, but Quade is obviously here). If Quade is that highly regarded around the league, it’d be foolish to not consider him.

Quade has done a fine job as 3B coach.

But I think that’s as good as it gets for him.

I agree

Quade seems to be on an island all by himself at times. I doubt he’d emerge as a leader of a team…ever.

Not easy...

…going from third base coach (for several years) to manager, especially in this day and age.

The left over players will still view him as a third base coach and getting the respect he would require would be more difficult. Not impossible to do, but he starts out behind the 8 ball.

Ozzie

Guillen did it.

KedzieKid - July 22, 2010 reply

Not with the same team.

What does Bobby Valentine have that you think we need?

Those funny fake mustaches?

^ this ^

Phubbies - July 26, 2010 reply

Moxie.

experience, willingness to speak his voice, and a bit of fire

I also don’t recall anything negative in regards to his ability to work with youngsters.

He and Zambrano might set the unintentional comedy scale to new heights

Me?

Nothing. He was mentioned somewhere as a possibility, so I put him on the list.

I believe someone mentioned Frank Chance too.

And Marlon Byrd

he can speak Japanese

a pennant?

rgonzale - July 22, 2010 reply

btw

I voted other for Mike Quade since the question was my choice, and not what I expected. I doubt Quade beats out Ryne, if it comes down to those two. I could see Ryne as manager and Mike Quade as bench coach. But Quade was once a finalist for the job in 2007 (not that that has anything to do with my choice), has experience working with youngsters, has minor league managerial success, has established himself as a quality major league coach, and by most accounts, is a well-respected guy in managerial circles.

voted Quade assuming my top tier of guys weren't available

read above

i did

He’s a well-respected baseball guy. Olney indicated earlier this year that he was considered as future managerial potential, and I know other folks in baseball that believe that as well. He’d offer a guy that would work well with youngsters, that has the respect of the leadership/organization. He’s had managerial success in the minors and has been coaching success in the bigs.

Btw, I did say that this was my choice, and that I didn’t think in reality that he could beat out Ryne, assuming my top tier is off the board (LaRussa/Valentine/Girardi/Fredi Gonzalez). I’m not entirely comfortable giving the job to Ryne next year, although I’m not against it either. Sort of middle of the road on it.

How about Milton Bradley??

He would add some fire to the team.

Been there, done that.

but he wasnt the MGR when

he was here. ??

I'm talking about the "needed fire" part.

How about Pete Rose then?

He’d certainly lower the odds in Vegas that we’d win the World Series.

LOL

Another old guy. No thanks.

Hiring Sandberg is setting him up to fail.......

…. and seriously, four years managing in the minors makes him “highly qualified”???? Jody Davis has three years in. Where does that leave him? I know Jody wants the job too because I’ve heard him say it multiple times. But this infatuation with Sandberg has everything to do with sentimentality and his HOF status, no matter what anyone says to the contrary.

There are PLENTY of better, more qualified candidates, many of whom are on the list in the OP. I’ve said multiple times I’m in favor of Torre for 2-3 years, then Sandberg, if his ego allows him to be a bench coach. Sandberg simply doesn’t know the league, period. He’ll have multiple learning curves. Disqualiying Torre due to his age, or any of the ones in the OP, is ludicrous. Talk about a bias. Torre said in the LA Times just this morning he hasn’t made up his mind what he’ll do next year, which is nothing like saying he’s done.

But hey, hire Sandberg. Watch another idol fall. And I hope I’m wrong, but it has all the signs, all the signs.

I have to agree...

I talked with Jody’s son on opening day and he expressed the same to me.

Great.

Jody Davis wants the job. I have heard he doesn’t work real hard, and remember, he started above Sandberg in the minor league system. Sandberg passed him not because of his HoF status, but because he worked harder and did a better job.

Was not aware

of a work ethic issue. His son was hammered, by the way.

The HoF status and the fear of "slapping him in the face"

probably didn’t hurt, Al.

Most other guys in Sandberg’s position have to put in more than one season at A and AA ball.

Not Bruce Froemming - July 25, 2010 reply

How many seasons did guys like

Brad Mills, Joe Maddon and Jim Tracy have to put in before they became manager?

And people really think Sandberg has “paid his dues”? Hardly.

Who said Davis doesn't work hard?

Because he’d like a word with whoever said it.

it's one of those rumors

that started somewhere but I’m not sure how it started anymore. Maybe someone knows. I’d heard the rumor a few years back. He did a fine job last year as a roving instructor, so he must be willing to put in some time (otherwise, he could’ve bailed and gone to another org).

All I can tell you is that's what I heard.

Al, i'm not disagreeing with you

I’ve heard the same thing before, on one of my trips once.

Enough of old-school, old guy managers.

You want Joe Torre here until he’s 73? No thanks.

Remind us never to hire you if you'd like to work simply because you're 70

Ludicrous. I don’t disagree with you like this often, but if age is all you’ve got against Torre, that’s really a sad commentary. Can’t be his record.

Old people creep me out

Besides, I think Torre is losing his fastball.

Since he never pitched.....

…. that doesn’t bother me. He can still get around on one when he has to, though.

The thought of being able to creep you out

is making me feel much better about my age.

I saw your pic

I’d hit it :)

hah look at the sig...

Breathing seems enuff :P

What are Sandberg's qualifications that makes him such a favorite for this job?

Four years in the minors- who -hoo!

Torre

My issue with Torre has nothing to do with age. I get the feeling that Torre is better off when he has some good player leadership on the squad. Doesn’t have to be from stars, but leadership of some sort. I’m not sure where if we have that on-field leadership right now. Also, he’s a guy that has a tendency to significantly overwork pen arms (I mean, all managers overwork good pen arms) and not trust his entire pen. I’m just not sure it’s the right fit for the organization right now.

So you're saying bring back DeRo and THEN sign Torre?

DeRo for bench coach? j/k

Well, weren't we pushing for a new team president?

I’m confident that DeRo could go into negotiations with Crane Kenney and walk out with a solid offer for Kenney’s job.

I agree with BeerCub.

What does age have to do with anything? McKeon won the World Series. What year was that Cubs fans?

That was an interim assignment.

You think the Marlins set out to win with a 73-year-old manager? No way.

The Cubs are starting fresh. Let’s not go forward with a guy OLDER than the one who is, as you may recall, RETIRING.

If Lou had more success...

… no one would be bringing up his age.

They didn't set out to lose, either

I agree, Al...if a guy has been alive PRIOR to the last WS appearance of the Cubs then, no offense, that's too old.

Time to try and build something with some longevity to it. Torre is/was a fine manager, but, he’s not someone who’ll be in the game 4 or 5 years from now. Hell, he’s already hinting about hanging them up. Let him.

See......

…. no one is advocating for Torre long term. Let Sandberg be his bench coach and learn the league. Get a few tips from Torre. Because he needs to do both.

So you're going to change managers AGAIN after two years?

No thanks. Time to do something different.

Three, not two

And the odds say the same for a Sandberg hire too

Why would you say that?

You have no idea how well Sandberg would do, or wouldn’t.

No matter how good a 70-year-old manager does, he’s on borrowed time.

Enough of the big-name, celebrity, recycled managers. Been there, done that. Enough. Time to do something different.

Exactly!

We’ve got new ownership here… time for some new thinking.

Hire a guy who has a chance to manage this team for 10+ years. Not some old fart who’s singing his swan song.

SackMan - July 22, 2010 reply

Al......

…. again, if all you’ve got is age against Torre or any other candidate, and if that’s a similar mindset to the Cubs’ thinking, no wonder they’ve been losers for 102 years. if he’s the most qualified, best candidate, and you don’t like him simply because he’s 70, that’s just stupid.

You also don’t have any idea idea how well Sandberg will do. None. if I have this straight, he’s got four years in the minors and a HOF playing career. Four years in the minors? That’s all it takes to be manager of the Cubs? You deny it, but you’re swayed by the fact it’s Sandberg, and not a no-name player.

I would bet a dollar the Cubs do hire Sandberg, and God help this time when they do. If they want fresh blood and someone who’s been a manager in waiting, then hire Ron Roenicke. He actually knows the major leagues.

I believe that we need a new start...

…. and that hiring a recycled, old-school, big-name manager is the wrong thing for this franchise.

Not Bruce Froemming - July 25, 2010 reply

That's fine, Al, and I don't disagree with that

but why Sandberg?

One reason: Sentimentality.

It's more experience

than Torre had when he started managing. Or Mike Scioscia, who had two years as a bench coach and one as a AAA manager.

How do you know Torre would do well here??

All you know about Torre is that no matter what happens, he’s not going to be around more than 2 or 3 years tops, regardless of ability.

We need to stop the revolving door of managers. Get someone set.

We need to stop the revolving door of managers. Get someone set.

Smartest thing that’s been said all day! I want somebody young-er.

With you Al

No more 65 year old plus managers.
Interesting listening to Girardi on WFAN at 5:00pm, Francesa ask him about the Cub job. Joe did not dismiss the job, he loves the city and the Cubs. This surprised Francesa who is a huge Yankee fan and dismissed the rumors that Joe would ever leave the Yanks. This surprised him.
So for what it is worth.

Interesting.

Girardi was probably just being noncommittal. I can’t imagine the Yankees letting him walk if they win the WS again. But you never know.

But it's not all up to the Yankees - Girardi has some say in the matter too

Joe may decide to walk if he wants and thinks he can get the Cubs job. And there’s nothing the Yankees could do about it.

He could, yes.

But I don’t think he will.

As Josh noted below, this does give him some leverage.

with that said, i'd bet he will go through the interview process

That's right...

…and it all comes down to how badly Girardi wants the Cubs gig. If it is his dream job, he may think this would be the time to jump at it regardless of whether he wins the WS or gets beat in the first round.

The Cubs job gives him leverage

If he dismisses any Cubs rumors, he loses leverage in negotiations with the Yankees.

But I can’t see him leaving NY.

Dave Bialas

Al, you were a charter member of the Dave Bialas Fan Club (www.DBFC.org) and I’m shocked that you didn’t include Bialas in your review of candidates.

That’s just not right.

DrCrawdad - July 22, 2010 reply

Sure it is.

Bialas wasn’t qualified to be a manager.

I was kidding.

DrCrawdad - July 22, 2010 reply

Whew.

Ron Gardenhire

Consistently wins year-after-year with a mid-range budget and lots of younger players from the minors.

His teams play fundamentally sound baseball.

Great choice...

…but I don’t believe he will be available.

Once again... from the other thread

Players don’t just arrive raw at the big leagues and the big league managers teach them fundamentals.

If our players — either ones that came up through our system or prospects that we put in our system via trade — are coming up with bad fundamentals, that is NOT PINELLA’S FAULT!!!

And Gardenhire, Sandberg, Girardi or any other “fundamental” manager wouldn’t be able to fix it either.

Players are fundamentally sound or they aren’t and it doesn’t matter who managers them in the bigs.

Absolutely!!!!!

I agree about the players...

but my point is that the manager can control (to a certain extent) who plays and who doesn’t.

Maybe some MLB managers (over time) gradually weed-out the fundamentally poor players and play the fundamentally sound players more, creating an appearance of a fundamentally sound team overall.

Otherwise, we need to hire the entire Twins’/Yankees/Dodgers minor league coaches and managers for our minor leagues.

I can't remember the last time I saw a fundamentally sound Cubs team

Moises Alou was the stupidest player I’d ever seen, until I saw Theriot. Ronny Cedeno nearly caused me to have a stroke, and I’m not even kidding.

This is pre-Lou and, unless we change over the minor-league system, it will carry on.

I agree

Let’s hire those guys from the Twins/Yankees/Dodgers minor league system and plug them in!

The Twins

as an organization stress fundamentals and throwing strikes from day one.

I really hope fans don't get fixated on an "All-Cubs" coaching staff...

The important thing is to hire the right guy… the right long-term guy…

We need to find our own Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa, Joe Torre, Mike Scioscia, or Ron Gardenhire. Sure, it would be nice if it were a former Cub… but the main part is to find the next “great manager,” so we can put an end to all this turnover every 4 years and finally create some sustained success and a championship.

SackMan - July 22, 2010 reply

On Scioscia........

…. he brought a catcher’s detailed knowledge to the game, and was canned by the Dodgers from his Triple A job. The Angels had no such problem with him. He also brought in a varied staff, including Joe Maddon and Bud Black.

Maddon

was already with the Angels when Scioscia was hired. He was the interim manager he replaced.

I know...

….. but he didn’t get rid of him, either. I’d wager they learned from each other. Black sure did.

Thow in Ron Roenicke

Scioscia assembled a hell of a staff in Anaheim.

Yup

Throw him in the Cub mix, too. Seriously.

I think we have to hire Sandberg

but if we didn’t have the situation, I’d be banging the drum for Roenicke to get the job. He’d be a great choice.

I raised him earlier this week

Based on the results from Maddon and Black, I’d look at him.

rlpete - July 22, 2010 reply

It sure was amazing to watch him play his team against us this year.

They haven’t had a record setting year, but they looked so crisp in fundamentals and showcased his knowledge of how to beat us. Made us look completely silly many times…I realize that we make a lot of teams look good, but his moves just seemed uncanny how they worked so often. His aggressive moves worked out every time, and made me wish we had a team that could execute what the Angels did. We could take his approach and sometimes do, we just don’t have the team to execute it. And you would have to say that after a few years, the manager has something to do with that.

Green it.....

Personally, I think we should get the Old Spice Guy

he’s certainly got the abs for it.

I like the World's Most Interesting Man better.

Stay thirsty my friends!

Nah... old school

we need someone less than 70 ;-)

Yabbut

can your Old Spice man speak French in Russian?

I don't want to hear him

speak. I just want to gaze at the Old Spice guy. :P

Fair enough. :)

He once visited the Virgin Islands..

Now they just call them The Islands.

(Not sure if the was Ryno or Girardi. Maybe Lou.)

Ron Swanson - July 22, 2010 reply

Lou's retirement caught no one by surprise

So if Jim Hendry thought that Sandberg needed major league coaching experience before he could get the Cubs job, Mike Quade would have been given a job as “Special Assistant to the GM” and Sandberg would have been the 3B coach this year. Hendry knew that Piniella was unlikely to continue after this season.

You may think Sandberg needs to spend time as a major league coach, but it’s pretty clear that Hendry does not.

Or he could have become the 1B coach when Sinatro moved to the front office

Instead of Ivan De Jesus, although that would have left them without a spanish-speaking coach if Lou had left in mid-season.

Invalid User - July 22, 2010 reply

I think DeJesus

was needed for a Latin presence. That’s why I said Quade. But yeah, they could have done that too.

Manager vacancies

The other thing to keep in mind is that the Cubs won’t be the only team looking to hire a new manager. This is probably the same list of 13 other teams are looking at too. If the Cubs wait too long to make a decision after the season ends, they may be left with bringing back Tom Trebblehorn

ClarkWaveland - July 22, 2010 reply

Nah,

Don Baylor is always a fall-back plan! :)

I vote Ryno

If he fails, fire him. Don’t treat him special because he has his number retired. He’s gone through the minors, so he’s proven that he was willing to pay his dues to become a major league manager. That says a lot about his character given that he is a Hall of Famer and could have settled for a comfy job in the front office like Maddux. He’s shown he’s willing, so he has to prove it now.

And...

… I think if that did happen to Sandberg the manager — he failed and was fired — it would not change one thing about his HoF career and how Cubs fans feel about him.

Unless he absolutely fails miserably

If he fails miserably at the job, it won’t be pretty. No one is going to un-retire his number, but it wouldn’t surprise me if some people wanted that to happen in a worst case scenario.

Other than he is willing and wants it...

what are his qualifications that set him apart from other guys his age?

Can he manage 25 different personalities and keep everybody happy?

Can he demand fundamental baseball be played consistently?

Can he evaluate ability/talent that others don’t see?

Can he handle a bullpen properly?

Can he handle a rotation properly?

Can he motivate people?

Can he make proper in-game decisions?

Is he innovative or set in his ways?

Is he into “just winning now” or in building a truly long-term competitive team?

Can he make players better than they already are (bringing out the best in people)?

These are the important questions.

Approxamatly 0% of the guys on this list will make any of our players better.

Just sayin’.

I'm hoping that a few of them ...

will know enough not to start Kosuke Fukudome, Koyie Hill and Ryan Theriot on the same day, though.

That's not a difficult quality to find in a manager.

But the point kinda illustrates what's happened this year.

The Cubs have less talent than they’ve had since 2006. But the lack of talent (caused in large part by the decline of Lee and the bad first half from Aramis) hasn’t been something Lou has worked around. If anything, he’s done things to expose the team’s weak spots.

Lou obviously quit managing well before he told anyone he had made up his mind to really quit managing.

Hopefully when this new manager takes the helm...

those 3 won’t even be an option.

here, here

I think Hill is a decent backup catcher.

I agree.

But I think Easy Ed is saying that those three playing at the same time won’t be an option next year, regardless of the manager.

good

I voted Ryno

knowing that Girardi would not leave New York. I voted Girardi when Lou was hired. I will vote Girardi when the next manager leaves or is fired.

If only BLou were here to tell us who the next manager was going to be to complement our new GM Sandy Alderson.

I thought Alderson was our new team president?

OTHER

ADAM LIND FOR MANAGER

Girardi is the dream pick, Sandberg is the safety school.

Trammel would be where the Cubs go if they blew their tuition money on a new Trans-Am.

I'm not convinced Trammell would be a godawful pick

Yeah -- that analogy is a little unkind to Tramm.

I don’t think he’d be terrible, either. But I think he’s the Cubs’ extreme fallback position.

Trammell is a bad choice primarily because....

… people can’t spell his name.

It’s T-R-A-M-M-E-L-L

Geez, Al.

You’re pretty testy today? What’s your deal?

That was a joke.

Sorry, forgot the joke font.

If you're going to start joking about all the misspellings in a typical BCB thread ...

you’re going to be a busy man.

As usual eg

your analysis is sound, and you are one of the few logical posters here.

I’m now going to go through this thread and tell the people I don’t agree with that I’m ignoring them.

Ha. Thanks, Craig.

I’d put you in the logical camp, too.

We can't help it Trammel spells his name wrong.

"Pinella", too.

or Brenley

Or "Sandburg".

or Lily

As long as we all get to learn Szczur early, we'll be okay though!

That one, everyone will probably get right.

Good point

Another reason to take the names off the jerseys!

Maybe nit picking, but

Your title should be “Who should succeed Lou Pinella”, not “Who should replace Lou Pinella”.

In hindsight,

I should have voted for OTHER. After this season bring back Ted Lilly as player/manager. (Sarcasm Font).

I would have rec'd this

had you not added the (Sarcasm Font).

Sorry...

Could you imagine if that happened? It would be hilarious, after a pitcher screws things up mightily, Lilly could go out to the mound, say I could do this better myself, and then put himself in the game.

I'd pay top dollar to watch a Cubs/Padres game when Ted pitches

just to see Bruce Bochy go crazy with protests every time Ted got back on the mound for the second time each inning…

Timeline

What do you think the timeline is for announcing a new manager?

bazfan1234 - July 22, 2010 reply

I would think prior to the Winter Meetings, for sure.

Tomorrow.

I'd think it depends on the success of this team going forward.

If we are in contention (or close to it), not until the Winter Meetings. If we tank and continue to barely tread water, perhaps later in September or right after the season ends.

My top 3:

Alan Trammell
Ryne Sandberg
Bob Brenly

I don’t think LaRussa or Girardi are feasible options. I don’t see either leaving their current position because both rosters are in place and have contending teams in the future. I like Alex Cora, but he has no experience at the helm, which is bothersome.

The three I favor have experience: Trammell with the Tigers (and here in Chicago), Sandberg in Iowa, and Brenly with the Diamondbacks. All three have extensive experience with the Chicago Cubs, either as a player, apart of the farm system, or as a broadcaster, and are familiar with the organization, its inner workings, and what it will take (besides just the personnel) to win in Chicago. It’s well known that this team lacks off-field assets needed to succeed, and by working with the Ricketts Family, can pair on- and off-field to produce a winner.

All three seem pretty level-headed; granted each has their faults (“blowing up”, getting ejected, not passionate enough, etc.), but each has strengths, too. I’m concerned with Sandberg’s persona getting in the way with his on-field performance, I’m concerned with Trammell’s lack of getting another job after Detroit, and I’m concerned with translating Brenly’s keen eye and broadcasting abilities into on-field production. Then again, no candidate is perfect, but I would be satisfied with any of these three.

Dan

The man who stresses the fundamentals and plays aggressive, take no prisoners, baseball

should get the job. Who is that? Ryno? Joe? BB? Santo?

John Rambo.

James Braddock

Then you gotta hire Col. Troutman for GM, right?

Col. Troutman is dead.

Well, cross him off then...

Hahahahahahahahaha

Awesome

the guy that comes to mind

would be Fredi Gonzalez, and if we can convince him to come here instead of Atlanta, I’d love it. That said, he has ties to the Braves organization, and that’s a better job than ours right now (better team in the bigs, better system, our advantage is the potential willingness to spend).

No

Santo’s too old

reply fail

Santo is too old.

Not to mention, not qualified.

Plus he would set the record for most ejections

He would be screaming, “Oh no!” constantly in the dugout.

Bench Coach: Brant Brown

I've voiced my opinion on the subject frequently.

Joe Girardi, if at all possible, would be my first choice. If he’s not available, Ryno would come next, then Bob Brenly.

NDCubbie - July 22, 2010 reply

Few of you actually understand what makes a good to great leader

There are few formula’s except the willingness by others to be led by the person. That takes a single minded ability to develop authority, not make a case for that authority. IMHO I realized that Piniella had lost that authority back when he was in a public discussion with Steve Stone and stating that he had won 1770 plus games. A leader doesn’t need a resume to establish authority.

I think La Russa holds it well, even Ozzie on the south side holds it well. It is his game, his team, his game plan, his decisions, and his subjective analysis as to whom is or isn’t contributing to the team goal.

IMHO I think Bradley undercut Piniella’s authority on this club when he chose the mental one over others and then tried to work Bradley until Milton psychologically imploded. From that point on the team had lost confidence in Lou’s judgment. Thus judgment is critical.

Pat Reilly had a theory that 80% of a team’s winning production comes from 20% of the players, convenient 80/20 rule, but the 80% of a coach/manager’s time and attention often is devoted to 80% of the marginal players who contribute the 20% of the difference between winning or losing. That time is focused on getting them to submit to supporting those star players who produce 80% of the production. The rest of the time is getting the stars not to take advantage and get special treatment but actually lead by example and push the 80% of the rest of the team to greater levels than before.

Judgment and decisions go throughout the process, starting with staff, preparation, type of game, what performance is relevant, rewarded and what behavior is disciplined and what is ignored.

Now some of you look at cliche’s whether a HOF player can be a great manager. Good question but it is not the right question. The question is what kind of player was Sandberg? How did he become a star? In short Sandberg was not a gifted 5-tool player, he made himself into a 5-tool player…by “playing the game right” , he learned, achieved and out thought, out anticipated and and out prepared others. That is a great prescription for a leader because he walked the walk and can talk the talk.

Then there is the competitive nature. When Sandberg was a player there were few players who possessed the same competitive drive as Ryne, Girardi did as did Maddux and now I think Moyer did as well. This is why so many marginal players become coaches or managers, often they are average in talent but their nature and preparation make them better players.

Lastly comes the willingness to separate oneself from being liked. A manager should not be liked, but respected where those who play for him believe he has their best interests at heart (winning) and their career will benefit. I personally know HOF coaches, they are different people and they demand authority. Just look at Bobby Cox.

Al your essay as to the resume of fired managers shows that ultimately there were poor choices, managers who were not actual leaders, except for Durocher, Riggleman, Baker and Piniella.

It is my opinion that Sandberg is a real leader, but so is Girardi, Torre, and LaRussa. And as I have said, put him in place now.

Ivy Walls - July 22, 2010 reply

Always good to start off a post demeaning the audience.

I’d like to subscribe to your newsletter, blog, and motivational engagements.

Few of us actually understand what makes a good to great post.

There is only one formula. First you must make sure you insult the reader’s intelligence right out of the gate. This does two very important things.

1) The reader immediately becomes engaged in your words.

2) You’ll feel awesome.

Here is a haiku, about good to great posts:

I’d like to insult
You for a bit…demeaning,
demoralizing

...

Ivy wrote some words
But first he flips me the bird
something rhymes with bird

how those who simply don't know

deny unwelcome information. Have any of you actually worked for, had a personal relationship with a genuine leader regardless of industry?

My intent was not to demean anyone, though your intent is, it is to inform….think, really contemplate why certain coaches or managers succeed overtime and others fail immediately.

What has made LaRussa different that the hundreds of managers during his tenure? Why Phil Jackson but not Collins? Why Torre and not Clint Hurdle?

How did Bobby Cox succeed and all the money and Mets managers did not?

What made Joe Torre?

Ivy Walls - July 22, 2010 reply

SWL and I are the leaders of Soup Club.

So the answer to your question is a resounding, “Yes.”

You're obviously not a good to great leader....

because you suck at making a point anyone bothers to try and get.

And no Haikus.

No rhyming, and I mean it!

Would anyone like a peanut?

on Torre

a bit of luck. Keep in mind he was viewed as a fairly pedestrian manager until getting the Yankees job. And if memory serves me correctly, he wasn’t the favorite for the job.

and if memory serves me...

the teams he got to manage far outspent any other team and had premium talent at almost every position. What the hell kind of manager COULDN’T win with what Torre had in the mid 90’s?

Buck Showalter

apparently

And

Rivera became the full time closer after pennant one

Why Phil Jackson but not Collins?

Because drummers don’t make good front men.

Goodie1969 - July 22, 2010 reply

The money infused by Steinbrenner made Joe Torre who he is today.

Vermont Cubs Fan - July 23, 2010 reply

I would add...

…the Yankees farm system also produced a core group of guys which helped big time in bringing them their late 90’s dominance.

MPH73 - July 23, 2010 reply

He's read the book "Good to Great" too many times.

Being a good to great message board poster

is not a bad book…well worth the $10

Ah yes... reminds me of the good old "Well, hearing your opinion is nice" days...

LOLOLOLOL

I forgot. I was going to use that from then on, but I guess I couldn’t bring myself to be THAT arrogant.

tl;dr

YEAH I HAVE A RESPONSE............

WHAT?

If you're going to write long posts like this...

… muchless regurgitate a post from another thread you already started, then please learn how to write. This is awful, to say nothing of your viewpoint.

rec'd

LOLZ.

Actually...

Ivy’s posts are one of the few sources of amusement I get related to this year’s Cub debacle. He’s a wonderfully bad poster.

John916 - July 22, 2010 reply

The best part is...

….. you can tell he puts a lot of thought into them and thinks his writing is swell. But Good God man, taking a writing class.

Yep

That’s what makes them so funny. His writing is just SO bad. Its almost like his posts went through one of those online English-to-another-language translators and back again.

John916 - July 22, 2010 reply

I stopped reading at "Pat Reilly".

I don't ususally read

his posts but the responses are worth a read.

POW POW

Someone explain how and why Ivy Walls always has the time or takes the time to write all of these poorly written diatribes.

It's called computer-itis.

Symptoms include spending far too much time on the computer.

or a really boring job

In approaching the 80/20 rule of this post, I took it to heart.

I read 20% of this post, knowing 80% of it was crap.

well played!

I do too know leadership

the first girl I got to third base with was the second-shift bakery assistant manager at a grocery store

There's a "dough rising" joke in there somewhere...

…but it’s still daylight out and kids may be reading this.

Those kinds of jokes knead more time to get a proper rise.

Yes, this post is starting to go a-rye.

don't caraway the main point!

I guess I should avoid talking about the yeast infection

you're on a roll

Any way I sliced it, it was a bit too stale for me.

Worf this is one of the funniest things you've said on BCB.

Oh my, maybe I am as uninformed as the title suggests

I couldn’t even make it through the first sentence without being confused.

There are few formula’s except the willingness by others to be led by the person.

What?! The fact that a formula can be possessive really confuses me. And I’m not even sure what is being said here.

…and it goes on like this.

gizmo6d9 - July 22, 2010 reply

I have a response to this.

I’ve read the same paragraph about four times, not getting any idea what point you’re trying to make here. All is see is abrgpiuabgepouabg[aonbr[i.

Could you possibly translate this into English for those of us who can’t speak Ivy Walls-ese?

I reccomend that you take a writing class from a good to great teacher.

You can't seriously think that would help him.

Vermont Cubs Fan - July 23, 2010 reply

I always thought Brenly would

not want to leave the booth until I heard him say this year in an inteview that he would indeed like to manage again in the right situation. I like that he calls out players on this team and I think he would do that if he was the manager too. This is why I voted for Bob.

but for how many years?

im guessing the Cubs want someone who would be in place the next 5-10 years

Right.

Brenly will be 57 by Opening Day 2011. Not old, but not the next generation of manager, either.

There's nothing saying any of the guys on

Al’s list would be here 5-10 years. He asked who should replace Lou and Bob is my choice for however long it is.

HEY! Let's just make this list the NEW COLLEGE OF COACHES!!!!

No, you can't do that.

There’s nobody named “Vedie” on it.

PS – I voted for Obama.

Oh, wrong thread.

wrong blog

Oh, wrong year.

Oh, don't keep this going.

Wrong topic?

This should be posted on BleedCubbieKos

It will most likley be Ryno....I am not sold yet

…I don’t like that the club is in a very tough position now that if you don’t hire him, you’ve offended your icon. Did he put the time in? Kind of.. he has never sat in a ML dugout as a manger or coach. If he wasn’t Ryno, he most likely wouldn’t even get an interview.

I think just about anyone here would love it if it could be Girardi but as mentioned above, that is unlikely.

I think you need to give Bob Brenly and long hard look. Clearly he has the managerial resume, but he has something that no one else has, an incredibly unique perspective of the Cubs organization from behind the scenes. He knows how Hendry and team work. He knows the pressures that they face in Chicago and he knows the challenges of dealing with inadequate facilities at Wrigley, day games after long road trips etc. I think there is quite a bit to be said about having inside knowledge of those Cub specific X factors as the leader of the team.

Manny Acta...

Has been lauded for his use of sabermetrics. Although he hasn’t had much in the way of success with the Nats and Indians, he hasn’t exactly had A+ talent either. Check out this quote from an interview that he did with Squawking Baseball back in 2007:

Bunting is pretty outdated. Everybody scores so many runs nowadays, it doesn’t make sense to play for one run unless it’s late in the game and it’s close. I hardly ever bunt early in a game, unless it’s with a pitcher. A big inning can win you a game. One run in the third inning can’t, unless you have Pedro pitching.

Not your typical manager talk. I know he’s not going to get much of a look from the Cubs, but I would hope that he at least comes up in the discussion.

unless i'm mistaken

i’m pretty sure the indians are really high on him and view him as the guy to groom their young guys coming up.

That's true...

…and something to consider if the Cubs plan on bringing up any of their young talent in the next few years. Then again, this is one of the biggest pluses for possibly hiring Sandberg, that he already has a good reputation with many Cubs minor leaguers.

Right.

Acta’s also not really available.

Sandberg voters-BE HONEST....

….How many voted for him for the main reason that he is a CUB icon and NOT because of his credentials as a manager?

Part of it is that he was a Cub, of course.

I also believe he’s more than ready to take over. The reason I say part of the reason is that he was a Cub is because I believe he, more than anyone understands what it’s like to put on the uniform. It is not easy playing under in Chicago, and he did so as one of the best 2B in the game, he can handle the big stage and the media.

I believe that he, more than anyone in line wants to see the Cubs win a world series, and I believe he wouldn’t give up when the going got tough. It’s his dream, it’s everything he wants and he will dedicate himself until he has nothing else to give to help improve the team. I don’t think you’ll see him sitting down in the dugout looking lost, I think he’s going to be involved in the game every step of the way, and I think that he’s going to bring the desire to win back to the North side.

Sandberg is my all-time favorite player...

…I literally carry his baseball card in my wallet. But that doesn’t mean that he’s the right choice for this team.

Sentimental choices rarely work out in situations like this. Just look at Denis Savard’s stint as Blackhawks coach as apoint of reference.

bluekoolaide - July 22, 2010 reply

Right.

My choice is definitely NOT based on sentimentality. I liked Sandberg the player, but he’s not my all-time favorite or anything.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100722&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

Stark on Lilly:

Apparently, there are a few teams interested, and the Cubs won’t likely have to pay his remaining salary.

Sorry, if this was posted elsewhere …

This isn't a necessary move...

I’d hope that the Cubs try to re-sign him if possible, or at least offer him arbitration. Right now, he’s on the cusp of being a type A free agent.

Agreed.

Surprising that Stark says the Cubs will pay the salary. Isn’t the main point of doing a deal like this salary relief? You’re not going to get a top prospect for Lilly.

Says Cubs won't pay remaining salary... so they would get the salary relief.

IMO… I’d rather they get a better prospect(s) and pay some or all of the salary. Then again it isn’t my money (I know, I know… it kind of is… ticket prices, etc.).

fsuapollo - July 22, 2010 reply

So not only are they confident they can trade this guy, but they Cubs are also telling teams they don’t have to pay any of the approximately $5.5 million he has left on his deal this year.

I dunno — to me, that reads to me like the Cubs are paying the money.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/stark-on-lilly-indians-astros-dodgers.html

MLB trade rumors reads it the way fsu and I did.

OK... I can see how you read it that way.

And I guess that could be the case.

But with the article citing all the teams competing for Lilly, I don’t see any reason the Cubs would pay much, if any of the $. The only reason would be to improve on the quality of the prospect return.

Another ESPN article (Insider, I think) speculates the Yanks would get Lilly for their 12th best prospect. If the Cubs are only getting that level of prospect, they sure as heck better not be paying a dime of the remaining salary (and shouldn’t be making the trade… but that’s kind of beside the point).

fsuapollo - July 22, 2010 reply

I wouldn't make the deal for someone's 12th best prospect.

If that’s the best they can do, keep him and offer him arbitration.

I am the leader of the trade Ted Lilly train

But, if a fringy second-basemen is all you are gonna get I would do the arbitration thing as well. There are enough teams that want him that I have to imagine someone is going to give up something better than a Jeff Baker-type.

If we get a really good prospect or two back ...

you bet it’s a necessary move.

Look at that pic of Sandberg

Doesn’t look like sometimes like the hamster has fallen off the wheel a little bit. I am not saying he is stupid, just that the light behind those eyes is a little dull.

...

...

...

HAHAHAHA

Thank you so much. Needed the laugh. They look drunk, not stupid. I approve of drunk.

You're basing your opinion of someone's intelligence (someone you've never probably had a converstaion with) on a picture on the internet?

I’ve never seen a picture of you, and my opinion of your intelligence is a bit lower than your’s of Sandberg’s.

Coming from someone who represents themself with a pic of Britany Spears.

I was halfheartedly making that remark regarding Sandberg, mainly because I have no idea where everyone is getting this sudden passion for his coaching abilities. He may turn out to be great, but why is everyone so excited about him? What has he done?

You don't bring half-hearted to this blog

Get that weak-ass shit out of here. And I double-dog dare you to make a snide remark about Barney.

Here's my prediction....

one of these days you are going to hate that stupid dinosaur. You are a new parent. I understand. I used to love Barney too. But trust me, there will come a day when you find him so annoying you’ll want to rip out his intestines with a fork.

You might be right

but Barney is OK. It’s the Elmo phase I’m not looking forward to. I can’t stand that little red bastard

I'm with you on Elmo.

Cookie was cool til he went veggie. You know who’s really cool? Thomas the Tank Engine (preferably narrated by George Carlin). He can be pretty cheeky.

Robert DeNiro changed my opinion on Elmo.

I used to hate Elmo. One day, while watching my friend’s niece, that changed. All because of Robert DeNiro.

Still the strangest thing I’ve seen on TV. Mr. DeNiro took a trip to Elmo’s World to have a little discussion on imagination. At the end of it, Robert DeNiro’s voice was coming out of Elmo (who was sitting next to… another Elmo). It was weird. But that little red bastard earned my respect that day.

Phubbies - July 26, 2010 reply

...

Wow, are you serious?

Yes

Im not a big fan of his

You could have said that then

instead of saying he doesn’t look very bright.

I could have, but

the days of baseball being run by a good ol boy “i played the game” system are over. Young, SABRE-metric, statisticians, with serious smarts, are running this game. We have done 4 years, of “What do you want me to say?” baseball. I want smarts. I want someone on the top of his game, not running on fumes from previous championships. Is Sandberg the right man? I have no idea, but neither does anyone else. No one, including Al or Josh77, know what Ryno has to offer. Everyone seems to be giving the benefit of the doubt because he was such a good guy, and is a HOF’er. Does anyone remember when Zimmer left the Cubs and lambasted good ol’ Ryno for not being a team player. For not being a leader. For refusing to follow orders, refusing to move up or down in the order. I remember that. I guess I am also tired of people on this site reminding the rest of us that we better be the sheep to their wisely shepherds, believe only what they believe, or we will quickly be repremanded by the holiest of holies, Al.

Should I have said he looks like a moron? Probably not, but if you have heard him interviewed at the Cubs convention, or on the radio or TV, you would realize that he probably not a MENSA candidate. Does that mean he will not be a good manager? No. But to be the face of this franchise, a billion dollar, 140 mil dollar payroll, you either need to be a star (Torre, Cox, Lou, TLR, or Girardi) or a bad-ass on the rise. Sandberg is neither of those things. He is no star (off the field), and he is not a bad ass on the rise, or he wouldn’t still be in AAA. He is the Micah Hoffpauir of managers. Everyone wants him when the guy in front of him sucks, but the results will be quite similar. OMO.

Like you said, you have no idea.

But what pisses me off is that everyone else thinks they do.

Let's be honest here.

If I had any idea, I would be working in the Cubs’ management. However, I honestly have no idea who will, or should, be the Cubs’ next manager.

There are people who have the authority to make this choice, but I am not one of them.

My complaint about your

origional post was that you said Ryne looked like a dim bulb. It had nothing to do with whether he should be the new manager. I just found your comment offensive.

sue369 - July 23, 2010 reply

I'm amazed that you wrote this.

I’ve stated my opinion. That’s all it is. I made this post to ask for others, and instead you say I’d “reprimand”? No, this is for discussion, and there has been good discussion here.

Sandberg the manager is a very different person from Sandberg the player. That seems clear. He’s obviously learned a lot in the last 20+ years. I’d like to see him get a shot at the job.

I think that he deserves a shot at it, but

do you honestly think that this is the right time? Ricketts has to keep payroll where it is, or relatively close to it. We have young stars on the rise, old stars on the decline, and a fan base who may have to watch the other Chicago team go to the playoffs and have a great shot at another ring.

Starting fresh, a complete restructuring of this team is not going to happen. If Sandberg was going to be given a young, influential team to manage that could grow with him, I would say absolutely. But, if Ricketts sticks to his word, the team will continue to be a mix of youth, big contracts, and big expectations, and that does not seem like the kind of situation Sandberg would slide nicely into.

However, that Orioles job, working with McPhail, would be the kind of job that he could truly grow with. A young core of players, low expectations, and a city that will not constantly be disappointed that the second coming did not bring a championship by opening day. Doesn’t that sound like a more likely situation?

If Ricketts hires Ryno, it is a marketing scheme. He can use the, “he has been working hard for 4 years, and we have been grooming him for this since the start”, but that is surely not the reason that Ricketts will hand him the keys to his 900 million dollar investment. Sandberg will become a poster boy for the franchise, a sales technique.

The only other recent Hall of Famer I can think of that is interested in managing and may get a shot is Ripken. He could sell his players on the “Oriole Way” that his father and Earl Weaver preached for decades on end. He could show them his ring and say “follow me to the promise land”. What is the benefit of bringing in This Old Cub Part Deux? Show us how to lose like you did? I know, I know, Lou and Dusty’s outsider point of views did nothing to change the number of banners this franchise has, but they certainly changed the mindset and expectations of Cubs fans. I for one am thankful that the Cubs have stayed outside the organization when it comes to management, on and off the field, and I hope they continue to do so.

I eagerly await you and Ivy Walls writing an even longer version of Great Expectations

By eagerly, I mean, wooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrddddddddddsssssssssssssssss

She wore a wedding dress, kept wearing it, kids got older, wedding dress gal died, kids fall in love, out of love. The End

Rooooosssssebuuuuuuud

I knew it was getting out of hand with the "This Old Cubs Part Deux" remark

but by that time I had too much time invested.

Its cool

I am not really sure why this topic is bothering me so much

Probably because this season has sucked so bad. I expect that if this season didn’t suck, we wouldn’t have this topic to talk about.

Would you and Ivy Walls like to team up and write "War and Peace, Part II" for us?

I have been working on it, but

I am changing the the title to “War, What Is It Good For?”

Just want to point out something:

Orioles fans are far more impatient to see change than you might realize. (I should know, I am one.) Ryno really wouldn’t get any easier a time with them than with the Cubs’ fans!

But your suggestion of him and Cal kind of…changing organizations, that’s intriguing. Hmmm.

owllover711 - July 22, 2010 reply

I spent the 8 years of my life an Orioles fan

My dad had tickets to the 83 series, he took people from work instead and broke my heart. Moved from Baltimore to Chicago 2 weeks after the Colts left town. Bad year for me.

Ripken wants a major role in that frachise, but Angelo is a douche bag. Ripken is much different than Sandberg. He was a winner on the field and is the equivalent of Ernie, Ryno, Billy, and Ron time 100 for Orioles fans. I really wonder if he would take an on the field job, especially how his father was shown the door.

Sandberg would be good for that Orioles team. He needs to grow with younger players, and the Orioles have two of the very best. Wieters and Jones are amazing. They need pitching, and Matusz (sp?) is a good start.

***first 8 years of my life

The Micah Hoffpauir of managers?

Wow. That is a pretty dumb statement with absolutely no basis whatsoever. He has been in AAA for one whole season. Another stark difference between the two is that we have seen Micah in the majors and he isn’t very good.

And what does OMO mean?

Only my opinion.

It is only an opinion, but it is how I feel. I really don’t understand why everyone is so quick to call anyone who doesn’t like this Sandberg idea dumb, yet no one has given a single reason why he is qualified for this job, other than the “he has paid his dues in the minors” fallback. What is the appeal?

louslovechild - July 23, 2010 reply

Not a single reason he is qualified for the job?

Try a lengthy MLB career. Try 4 years of managing experience in the minor leagues. those are two qualifications right there. He is just about as qualified as any rookie manager.

Not Bruce Froemming - July 25, 2010 reply

Really?

No.

No love

for the Bruce Kim era…how soon we forget

TheRiot Police - July 22, 2010 reply

You can't even spell his name right

It’s Bruce Kimm with two Ms.

I guess you’ve pretty much summed up the Bruce Kimm era right there.

Kimm always struck me as a guy who’d rather get in a fistfight with his players than manage him.

That, and those unfortunate things that Whitey Herzog said about him before he managed. Those should reflect on Whitey more than Kimm, but unfortunately, they sort of spill over on to him.

I think it will be Sandberg

but wouldn’t mind if it were Girardi. I like Girardi because he has the experience and the knowledge to win. But I think he’ll stay in NY. The only way I see him going to Chicago is if he doesn’t win the World Series, because if he does he’ll want to go for three championships. If not Girardi give Ryno a shot.
LOL nice pics!

brians rams - July 22, 2010 reply

If it's Sandberg:

I think he’ll do whatever is called for. He has up to now in terms of his progression through the Cubs’ system, hasn’t he?

And he’s not an idiot. He knows he will be coming in as something of a fan favorite, based almost entirely on his playing years, and he will also know that it will have very little bearing on his performance as manager.

And he knows that baseball, especially at the major market level, is first, last, and always a business, and that his staying in place will be based on the Cubs’ performance and standings.

Unfortunately, he can’t also play the games. A bunch of people, some in place now, others to be arriving during the offseason, will be doing that. Whether they will do that well enough to warrant his staying around is still to be determined.

I suspect what the ownership and GM will be looking at is not absolute won-lost numbers so much as demonstrable improvement of the team over the course of the season, maybe the next two two seasons.

if it happens, he’ll be around a while. If not, we’ll have to get used to yet another new face in the dugout.

If it’s anyone else, Brenly, Girardi, whoever, the fan-favorite status will be less important, everything else will remain the same.

MN exile - July 22, 2010 reply

Okay... Just looked at that Sandberg photo as well...

And hell yes, my opinion is swayed by seeing him in a Cubs uniform again. Isn’t part of the lure the fact that he has the hearts of the fans?

Yes, he absolutely is the right person for the job. If there’s anytime to make this experiment work, it’s now. The expectations for him couldn’t be lower…

So what happened to Essian?

Did he hold out for another Managerial job and reject coaching offers? It seems that if you make it that far, even for a cup of coffee, that you can get another job as a coach.

I’d vote for someone in the ilk of Scioscia, Francona, or Maddon. If Sandberg fits that type then fine, if not then find someone that does.

BTW, I thought that the photo of Ryno was Pinella.

DudeVf11 - July 22, 2010 reply

Essian was doomed from teh first plane flight he took with the team

…when Grace hid his shoes and made him walk off barefoot.

Right then you knew that this was a guy who was not going to be taken seriously.

bluekoolaide - July 22, 2010 reply

Sign me up for the Torre-Sandberg ticket

If I know I want Ryno as my manager but I’m leery of the no MLB coaching experience factor, then Torre for two years with Ryno as his bench coach seems like the perfect solution. No worries about Torre wanting to manage for much longer than that, and Ryno’s ego takes no hit because he’s filling in the last hole in his resume and he’s learning at the side of a winner and potential HoFer.

IMO, the biggest mistake Tom Ricketts has made (so far) is calling this season “Year One”. He should have known better. Even if the Cubs had played up to expectations this year, it’s clear this is still a team very much in transition. If I’m going to go “all in” by naming a Cub legend as my manager, I want to put him in the best possible position to be successful, because my success will be tied closely to his. Handing Ryno the keys to this team next year is not such a position.

To me, “Year One” is 2013, when Soriano will be the only bad contract still on the books. That’s when I want my choice as manager to take over the reins. In the meantime, you have a proven winner and potential HoFer at the helm. And if the “old recycled manager – do not want” argument is the best you can come up with, save it. It’s an old recycled argument that really has no merit here.

There have been a lot of marketing mistakes this season.

Just sayin’.

Mistakes are just "A Way of Life," Al...

LMAO

Finally, a voice of reason

This is definitely worth it.

Rec’d.

WIN

Goodie1969 - July 22, 2010 reply

I'd just like to say that since Hendry is being retained, there's no guarantee that in 2013

Soriano will be the ONLY bad contract on the books. Hendry could very easily come up with some others.

HuskerCorner - July 22, 2010 reply

Can we give Sandberg a "trial" salary for the first year

of, say, whatever he is making now plus a 20% promotion and cost of living increase?

Pay for performance contract?

Unfortunately, I have little doubt that Ricketts will go the "fan friendly" route..

…and go with Sandberg. Huge mistake IMO but, as he has shown little interest in doing anything other than making “safe”, “warm and fuzzy” moves since taking over, we might as well resign ourselves.

I can’t wait for some people on this site to blame the fans for "forcing’ Ricketts’ hand when this move turns out to be another boneheaded one.

bluekoolaide - July 22, 2010 reply

He said the decision is Hendry's to make.

Nice Post Al!

Its a nice rundown of the main applicants……

Also a nice piece on the former mangers….kind of ugly….

My thought is, unless Girardi is suddenly available, Sandberg is your guy.

If Girardi is named, Sandberg almost has to at least be offered a coaching position.

We can only hope Jim Hendry builds whoever is managing next a decent team.

TJ11 - July 22, 2010 reply

My thought is, unless Girardi is suddenly available, Sandberg is your guy.

I think this is precisely what’s going to happen.

If Girardi is named, Sandberg almost has to at least be offered a coaching position.

And so will this, in this circumstance.

But why would Sandberg take it?

Girardi would be “all in” for years and years if he’s successful. He’d never get his dream job. With Torre, he’s practically guaranteed.

We get Girardi, then we wish Ryno well

in Arizona or Pittsburgh or wherever.

Yup

Arizona would be a distinct possibility if Kirk Gibson isn’t kept. Sandberg lives there if I remember right.

I almost wouldn't offer him the coaching job

If Girardi runs into a whiff of trouble — and remember, Pinella and Baker both did in 2003 and 2007 — then the calls for Ryno will be unbelievable.

If Ryno isn’t the guy, I think it’s better to send him off to seek his manager job somewhere else.

Agreed

My heart says Sandberg

but my gut and mind says Bob Brenly

ThisOldCub18 - July 22, 2010 reply

Why?

i thikn Bob Knows this team really well

ThisOldCub18 - July 22, 2010 reply

SORRY

after being in the broadcast booth for a few years I think he can see thins from a different light for analysis and also looks at it form a coaching perspective. He also did a good job with the diamondbacks.
Sandberg is a sentimental favorite cause he was a CUB and my favorite player growing up, but I feel he needs another year in Iowa or a year as the bench coach with the Cubs, But who is going to take a contract to coach the team for one year and then turn it over to Sandberg.
Ok I talked myself into it Sandberg for manager and give him more then two or three years to get stuff in order. I suppose I can wait another few years for a WS win. I’m still young.

ThisOldCub18 - July 22, 2010 reply

so does the clubhouse attendant

Has the clubouse attendant ever been a successful major league manager?

I’m not sold on Brenly, but that comment was asinine

HuskerCorner - July 22, 2010 reply

The Cubs did make

the guy in charge of ballpark concessions at Wrigley the GM one year. I’d say that’s close, but no, Salty Saltwell was not successful.

You wonder why Girardi would ever turn away from the Yankees for the Cubs job?

It’s simple…it’s the Chicago Cubs. 102 years of futility. I’ll use Girardi as an example: If Girardi came here to manage this team and DID win a World Series or 2? Holy crap !. Lake Michigan would be renamed Lake Girardi. Sears Tower would have a LeBron-esque banner hanging down the front of it with Girardi’s likeness on it. Women would name their children Joe (both boys and girls). The Pope would request an audience. Hell, maybe even Oprah. Michael Jordan would have to surrender his personal key to the city to him. It’s a shot at immortality. How can ANYONE pass THAT up? A job of a lifetime. I’d take it.

OR..at this point....

after Dusty and Lou came in and got the team to mildly successful levels and then had the Cub Grenade of Doom go off in their faces…I wouldn’t be shocked if some guys take a pass on running this team IN SPITE OF the allure of what winning a WS here would do for them.

Understood...

If you win a championship, you’d be immortalized and hailed as “The Conquering Hero”…forever …if not, you’re discarded to the pile with all the others who couldn’t. Worth a chance? It’s definitely a career maker…or breaker.

the Holy Hand Grenade?

San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - July 22, 2010 reply

Interesting premise

1 Cubs WS victory >> another Yankees WS victory

JFCubFan - July 22, 2010 reply

This is the reason everyone takes the Cubs manager job.

People know it’s a meat grinder, but the potential reward is unlike anything that any job in sports has to offer.

ctcoff99 - July 22, 2010 reply

Cub Grenade of Doom

Is the most awesome phrase ever!!

haha! gotta agree!

jeffstorm2 - July 22, 2010 reply

Aggrizzled

I voted "other"

only because I don’t really care, so long as they go through a real process. Call in a dozen or so people and put them through an interview. See what happens.

I just hope no one makes up their mind NOW and ignores a better candidate.

Allie - July 22, 2010 reply

hate to sound like a suck-up

but al is right, IMHO. Play for Joe G, if not available, it’s “ryno-time”. I’m not comfy with ryno yet… if he does poorly, we’ll be out at nite, by July 15th, with torches n pitch-forks… any chance for future success, ruined.

jeffstorm2 - July 22, 2010 reply

Candidates should have to compete against each other in obstacle courses

and then be challenged mentally with managerial decisions.

The winner will then be chosen by nationwide vote.