Jared Wickerham - Getty Images
Paul Maholm of the Pittsburgh Pirates pitches against the St Louis Cardinals at PNC Park in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. (Photo by Jared Wickerham/Getty Images)
It hasn't been officially announced by the team yet, but former Pirates lefthander Paul Maholm is a Cub, according to his own Twitter feed:
@paul_maholm
paul maholm Looking forward to seeing the fans at Cubs convention this weekend and getting to know all the guys. It's gonna be fun.
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This was tweeted late last night, too late for me to get a story posted here on the front page; I know you've all been busy discussing it at this FanShot.
This morning, we have more information, via a tweet from Bruce Levine:
@ESPNChiCubs
Bruce Levine Breaking news; Chicago Cubs sign LHP Paul Maholm to a 1 yr 4.25 million deal with club opt 6,5 for 2013. 500k B out
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It's been speculated in many places that if the Cubs signed Maholm -- another of the starting pitcher candidates they've been stockpiling -- this would make it more likely that Matt Garza would be traded. There are rumors that the Detroit Tigers are interested; I've written before that although I think Garza should stay, if the Tigers would send Jacob Turner the Cubs' way (along, perhaps, with Drew Smyly or Nick Castellanos), I'd be fine with this.
This deal can't be announced officially until there is a 40-man roster spot open; if Maholm is going to be at the Cubs Convention Friday and be a member of the team, more moves would seem to be coming.
There's one more thing. Garza was likely to make about $9 million this year via arbitration (or settlement before arb). The difference between that and what Maholm will make this year (according to the Levine tweet) would be enough to sign Kerry Wood.
Get it done, TheoJed.
0 recs | 396 comments
Unless there are some easily-achievable incentives
Or unless Maholm’s shoulder is still having problems, this is an absolute steal for the Cubs. Maholm is “average,” but, for a guy who regularly is worth a couple WAR, he is “worth” a salary much closer to $10 million than $5 million.
Brett Taylor - January 10, 2012
Agreed.
Very good signing, and if he has a good year, it’s also below-market for 2013.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
note; Epstein/Hoyer continue the trend of 'underpaying' for WAR value while Hendry overpaid
Volstad is arb eligible and equivalent to Zambrano’s payroll difference. Travis Wood under control and DeJesus another under WAR FA signing.
Ivy Walls - January 10, 2012
I'm a big fan of this signing
and while I like Garza, trading him for Turner and Castellanos would be insane (in a good way), especially if it meant having the cash to then sign Kerry Wood.
With all of these moves, it really seems like the Cubs are going to have a lot of cash on hand in 2013, or beyond really. Is that assumption correct?
Craig in South Bend - January 10, 2012
Sure appears that way... and the 2013 FA class offers some very good pitching
SackMan - January 10, 2012
"freeing $ for Wood"
If this is indeed true, that is really scary to me.
The Cubs payroll now is around $105 M. If they need to free up money to bring back Wood… that isn’t a good sign.
I am all for fiscal sanity in handing out contracts especially during a rebuilding period. However, my hope for the coming years is that the team will assemble a good base of young talent, then, perhaps as soon as a year from now, hit the FA market to fill some needs. This could have them competing as soon as 2013 or so.
If though, the team’s payroll is going to hover around $100M, then it will be much tougher.
Big Caveat, this does look like simple arithmetic gymnastics by a sportswriter, but…
WGNstatic - January 10, 2012
The reason I mentioned Wood...
… is that like you, I don’t think $4m to sign him should be a big deal.
Based on the money difference between Maholm and Garza (if Garza is traded), signing Wood should be a no-brainer.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
When you are rebuilding you have to reduce the budgets
Note, expectations must incorporate a loss of revenue as discussed here with a rebuilding/youth oriented roster.
I think $100M is a line where trading Garza also incorporates a hopeful return of Soriano. I think Wood is signed for $3-3.5M with a team option of $500K for 2013. The $4.25 plus $3.5 is $7.75 (or savings of $1 including the cost of minimum salaries if Turner makes the 25 man) . Trading Soriano moves the bar between $3-$5M depending on the deal, figure $3M in annual savings.
This brings the payroll down to $101M. The final savings might come from finding a deal for Byrd, though that might be augmented by any Cuban FA acquisitions.
Ivy Walls - January 10, 2012
Can I get the pro's and Cons of trading Garza.
He seems to me like a good fit for the nest 8-10 years why risk it on a prospect?
lshaffer_69 - January 10, 2012
The next two years are cost-controlled.
So for the next 2 years, Garza has true value.
After that, you’re going to be spending ~$18MM on Garza. At that point, he’s more or less fungible. You could sign a Hamels-Cain-Greinke for that. Or, frankly, Garza again.
Plus, you’d have the 3 top prospects you got for Garza in January 2012.
And, you’d have the $18MM you didn’t spend on Garza’s 2012-13.
So look at Garza’s next 2 years, and say to yourself – what are those years truly worth to the Cubs org? Is this team going to compete in 2012? No, it is not. In 2013? Maybe – at which point the aforementioned Greinke-Cain-Hamels are on the market.
At this time, Theo and Jed are letting the market come to them. They know that NYY and DET want Garza badly. If someone meets their sky-high demands, they’ll happily cash in the asset.
D98 - January 10, 2012
Rec'd
This is the kind of truly informative stuff that the major media never seems to get around to explaining to us yokels.
NobodySpecial - January 10, 2012
Rec'd
the only risk in that plan is that there isn’t an available free agent pitcher of Garza’s skill and age in 2 years when we are looking to add one. Top of the rotation starters are often extended before they have a chance at the open market.
tomas21 - January 10, 2012
And if they trade Garza, they need 2, not 1
Unless you massively project McNutt, there aren’t any 1-2 quality starters on the MLB roster or in the minor league system above Peoria right now.
ClarkFan - January 10, 2012
Ater reading this...
I don’t think it’s the money. I think it’s Wood wanting to hang around longer.
Easy Ed - January 10, 2012
On the contrary, it's the money. But I don't think it's because it's for him
Woody has earned enough in his career to last a lifetime, I expect the money he makes is mostly going to charity, for which he can do much more with 4 mil than he can with 1.5 or whatever he made last year (i think it was 1.5 mil).
Musicdude10 - January 10, 2012
I think you're both guessing.
We have no idea whether Kerry wants more years, and let’s not sanctify him to the point where we figure he only wants a raise for charity’s sake.
elgato - January 10, 2012
In the early process of building this program, they're allocating more of the budget toward amateur talent.
And building the proper organization… meaning adding more scouts, coaching, video analysis, facilities, etc.
This is a true long-term commitment toward building a winning organization. Something that has never happened around here.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Given the new limits on amateur talent spending
…that rings a little false. Ricketts has said the overall baseball budget will be about the same this season as last, and last year it was $180-200M. Even if you massively increase scouting and facilities, that’s a lot of money leftover.
Wreckard - January 10, 2012
Don't those rules kick in next year?
madcow256 - January 10, 2012
No, they start this year
After this year the limits change based on how good or bad your team is. This year everyone gets the same limits.
Wreckard - January 10, 2012
Does the $105M include the money for Z
Does the $105M include the money for Z and any others that we are paying to not play here? I can’t remember off the top of my head.
I mean if the budget is $150M (or whatever) and they spend $110 on MLB payroll, plus $15-20 in cash out to other teams. Plus another $20 on the draft and international signings (I’m thinking Soler, since everything else is capped now) then I’m fine with it. We all know this is a down year or two. As long as the MLB payroll jumps back up when we need it to in order to field a competitive team, I have no issues.
MVZ - January 10, 2012
I do include the money for Z
That also includes the $5M due Pena in 2012
WGNstatic - January 10, 2012
Great contract!
SackMan - January 10, 2012
I just got home from work.
Nap? Yes or no.
I have a sense something wild might happen. As wild as a Matt Garza throw to a base.
timh815 - January 10, 2012
Nap
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
thx
timh815 - January 10, 2012
Well, of course YOU'RE going to say that....
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
The extra hour I got to sleep in this morning rocked
Plus Garza being possibly traded isn’t exciting enough to lose sleep over.
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
I'd like to take a nap...
You’re not going to lose sleep because you’re MCF…
I realize you’d be more stressed if it was Geo ;-)
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
I'm in the same boat
I think I’m hitting the bed and hoping nothing happens till I wake up.
Say Ramrod - January 10, 2012
Okay the last line of this post makes zero sense for a couple of reasons
How the hell do we NOT have the money to have Garza AND Wood?
If trading Garza is the only way we have enough money to get Wood, then we were COMPLETELY mislead about what the payroll for this year’s team would be. This was a team that talked about being willing to spend if we wanted to, now we’re lead to believe we have to cut payroll even more if we want to bring Wood into the pen?
Secondly, if I had to choose between Kerry Wood and Matt Garza, I choose Garza every time. I trade Garza for insane prospects like what has been rumored from Detroit, but Al, it almost seems like (channeling Bruce here) that you want to trade Garza at any cost, in order to “afford” Wood.
Maybe that’s just how I read it, and you meant only to “get it done” if we get a great return for Garza, but either way, I have a problem with Levine’s tweet.
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
agree completely
Like I said above, this is most likely just a sports writer playing with numbers, but, if there is any truth to this, the Cubs future looks tougher than most of us were hoping for.
WGNstatic - January 10, 2012
Not at all.
You’re right that I mean “get it done” ONLY if you get a great return for Garza.
Also, as I noted above, $4m for Wood should NOT be a big deal given the payroll numbers the Cubs should have. However, if Garza is traded, that would certainly free up enough extra cash to sign Wood and they’d have no reason not to.
Make more sense now?
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
Not really, because I have a problem with needing to free up money for Kerry. That would seem to indicate a budget much smaller than we originally thought
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
The sunk costs
May be coming off the books this year?
timh815 - January 10, 2012
As well as possible big money spent on international players
There are, what, 5 legit Cuban guys still waiting to be declared FA? And the oldest one is only 26 in Cespedes?
RynoRooter - January 10, 2012
I'm kind of wondering the same thing...
What if they’re putting away $20 million to pay towards Soriano’s 2013-14 seasons and opening up even more payroll for those years? If that’s even possible financially in a sports organization, it may not be a bad investment.
bdlugz - January 10, 2012
That would be a fantastic investment
Maximize the down year loss and hold it to one year.
NobodySpecial - January 10, 2012
I see your point
… but mine is, if $4 million is holding up signing Wood, this would free it up.
I’m not exactly sure what the major league payroll is going to be — you’d think it would be around the same size as last year.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
But with what the team would be in 2012 if they trade Garza, why sign Wood for $4M?
It’s not like a RH setup guy will save them from a lot of losses. Sentiment is all well and good, but $4M seems like a lot to spend for memories.
ClarkFan - January 10, 2012
Stopped clocks are right twice a day
I agree with almost everything nunya’s written here. If the Cubs need to trade Garza to sign Kerry Wood — and if indeed some people want that to happen, even in an indirect way — God help us.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
The only thing I can think of is this is there war of saying we are REBUILDING
I havent had much hope for next year but the way it sounds is next season will be about drinking beer and seeing the other teams players
lshaffer_69 - January 10, 2012
thats a steal...only 4.25 mill?!
the cubs are def going to spend a lot more $$$ in 2013, haha
Geo4MVP - January 10, 2012
One year huh?
Didn’t have time to read the 214 comments in the fanshot but times have really changed around here. No backloaded inflated contracts for too many years?? One year for this price is absolutely a bargain. I really can’t believe we got this done for one year, which is almost unheard of with labor relations in MLB.
I also would have to resign myself to believe Garza is Goneza. If not, where does the roster spot come from….does anyone have a guess?
mrcubsfan - January 10, 2012
Also club option for next year
That is also extremely affordable
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
The salary was not announced last night
I think that came out this morning.
RiskyBusiness - January 10, 2012
Stockpiling pitchers
Because so many of them are so awful. But, also, to trade at deadline for prospects if any of them have a good first half. See what Seattle did with Doug Fister last year.
3744nsheffield - January 10, 2012
Who exactly is "awful?"
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
it doesnt matter Nunya...
they are so awful, but when they have a great year the cubs will simply trade them for prospects. do you not realize how major league baseball works nunya?
epsilon - January 10, 2012
I guess not.
I try so hard…..
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
Sounds like what a small-market team does
Christ.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
you're right we should've been big market
and given Maholm 3 yrs 27 million
DartmouthCubsFan - January 10, 2012
True but if JH was doing this and we were questioning it
We’d be sheep
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
I'm sorry, the correct response is, "Sheeple"
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
Judges would also accept "Meatballs"
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
Clever, DCF
And it ignores my point, but … hope the basement is warm this winter.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
basement?
shows how ignorant you are NBF! No basements in Florida. HA!
DartmouthCubsFan - January 10, 2012
Touche
Well played, DCF.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
Not because these new pitchers are awful. It's because we had no depth in our organization for the rotation.
Now we’re building a lot of options and can afford to deal Garza in the short term for TOR pitching prospects who may not be ready yet in 2012.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
But aren't they better than college of pitchers who started every 5th game last year?
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
"would be enough to sign Kerry Wood. Get it done, TheoJed."
Why?
I like Kerry Wood, I do but don’t you think $5 million would be better spent on someone who is going to contribute beyond next year?
Signing someone for sentiments sake is not smart business, and that’s not what Epstein and Co. are about. Get with the times, this ain’t your typical Cubs organization any longer.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
This.
TheoJed aren’t in the “making popular decisions with the fans” business.
However, one could argue that a younger team could benefit from Wood’s leadership and younger pitchers could benefit from his mentoring. If that’s something that is valued by management, then it makes sense.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
This is one of the reasons I like them
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
I do agree about the leadership...
But if the choice is between Wood or Soler, I’ll take the highly touted prospect all day.
bdlugz - January 10, 2012
With a payroll currently
at 100 mil or so, we shouldn’t have to choose between the two.
We are in a full-blown rebuilding year, but still have one of baseball’s highest ticket prices. I don’t care what the long-term value of Kerry Wood is. If they want me to pay 80 bucks to sit in the bleachers, I want a player I really like and respect to cheer for. For me, that’s Kerry Wood.
I am a big Epstein/Hoyer fan, and if their numbers are so gospel that they won’t do a deal like this, then fine. But don’t expect me or a lot of other fans to pay the Rickett’s asking price to come see them play when they will lose a Cubs icon like Kerry Wood over a million bucks or so. This isn’t a sound long-term decision, I get that. If we were the Pirates, and we needed all the money we could get, then fine, we don’t get Kerry Wood back for nostalgia or mentoring of whatever.
tomas21 - January 10, 2012
This IS a sound long-term decision.
You just don’t think it is because you’re letting emotions get in the way.
I’d much rather build for the future than pay a past star to stick around the team/city. Offer Kerry what we consider is a fair offer – if he doesn’t like it, that’s fine. Let him know there will always be a spot for him on the Cubs once he retires and leave it at that.
There are so many things the Cubs can spend money on to improve long term, and although I’d love to have Kerry back, he isn’t one of those things.
bdlugz - January 10, 2012
If this is a total rebuild, then Wood has no part in it
I wanted him back, but it’s obvious what Theo and Jed are doing, although I disagree with the extent to which it appears they’re pursuing it.
At this point, the desire to keep Wood is more about emotion than practicality.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
Exactly, and that's fine... but to claim signing him is good for the long term of the Cubs is ignoring the truth.
bdlugz - January 10, 2012
WE CAN WALK AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME TIME.
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
This isn't Trenton
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
I didn't say
signing Wood was a good long-term decision. He isn’t going to be here when we’re good again.
But it isn’t harmful to the long term plan. He isn’t going to make a significant amount of money. He isn’t going to be locked up to a long-term committment. He isn’t taking the place of someone who needs the time in the majors who IS part of the long-term plan.
He is a fan favorite. For a team that might lose 90 games for the 3rd time in a row, and who is charging one of the league’s highest ticket prices, it DOES matter. Someone has to pay to come see this team next year, or they won’t have the payroll to land players when we are ready to bring them in. I don’t know how many people buy tickets to see Wood, but I do think there are a fair amount of people who would be turned off by not signing him over a mil or so difference, and those people very well could stay away. I know I personally won’t buy a ticket next year if they don’t, and I usually go to a game or two a year.
I follow the team online and in the paper with my head. But I go to games with my heart.
tomas21 - January 10, 2012
⬆THIS⬆
1000 times rec’d. You’re not the only one who feels this way, and it could cost the Cubs far more than they “save” by letting Wood go in reduced ticket sales.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
Your allowing your sentimentality to get in the way of a reasoned debate.
The amount of fans that Kerry Wood brings through the turnstiles is negligible at best.
Bringing him back for the sake of the fans is again the mindset that got this organization into the mess it’s in. Look to the future.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
You think it's negligible?
One poster here expressed this opinion. It already has 4 recs. I doubt he’s alone in feeling that way.
We’re not talking about putting together an entire team this way. We’re talking about ONE guy who could
What’s wrong with that?
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
No one is going to be tickets to a game on the off chance that they'll see Kerry Wood pitch one inning
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
be = buy
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
That's not what we're talking about.
Of course no one does that.
The point is, he’s a popular player. If the perception is that Theo & Jed basically threw away a popular player who is also useful to the team and good in the clubhouse, some casual fans might not spend their money on tickets in general, not to any one specific game.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
I think not bringing back a popular player to pitch one inning at a time
Is a really dumb reason for the fans to stop buying tickets.
The team is going to be bad with or without him. Stop buying tickets because of the lack of overrall talent on the team. Stop buying tickets because there aren’t any players you actually want to watch play. Hinging that decision on a middle reliever is silly
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
Dumb or not
… it very likely will happen. Not everyone is as understanding of what Theo & Jed are trying to do as we are.
Those fans — and they represent a big chunk of the fanbase — could be coaxed to come to the park by the presence of a popular player. Whether you agree with that notion or not, it does exist.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
You THINK it does. I happen to think it’s not nearly as big a pull as you’re making it to be
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
Agree to disagree, then.
Is this an enormous thing? No.
But it does exit.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
A bullpen arm....
you’re telling us the casual fans will buy tickets because of a guy in the bullpen…who might make an appearance in 40 or 50 games MAX…and for one inning when he does get into a game.
You must think this “big chuck of the fanbase” is really, really stupid.
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
Ok
I do not buy a ticket on the chance that I’ll see Kerry Wood. I am also a huge fan of our new management and trust them to build a winner.
HOWEVER, if they don’t bring back Kerry Wood I will not buy a ticket to a game this year. It will tell me that they don’t care at all about winning this year, and they don’t care what the casual fan thinks. In general the latter is fine if they are building a winner, but if they aren’t winning games during this transition they should really think about appeasing the casual fan if it doesn’t get in the way of their long term plans. There is no reason to alienate fans over a million or two dollars for a fan favorite who has been loyal to the team.
He is good, he is asking for a short term commitment, and he is a favorite of many, many fans. He took a well, well below market contract because finishing his career with the Cubs. This shouldn’t be hard. This is one negotiation they don’t need to “win”. Pay him his market rate, get him to the convention, and make people happy so they buy tickets.
It’s funny, I’d be willing to bet many of those in the camp that we don’t need Wood and that we need to be singularly focused on the long term don’t even go to games. They are certainly entitled to their opinion, but they aren’t entitled to tell the the paying customers what they should want.
tomas21 - January 10, 2012
Man.
Umm……
Ok, first of all, how does signing Kerry Wood show they “care about winning” Exactly how many games do you think Kerry is going to win us? I also have to take issue with this notion that OF COURSE the casual fan wants Kerry back and not signing him means Theo DOESN’T CARE.
I guess my first question is “do you REALLY trust what Theo and Jed are doing in this rebuild?” If the answer is no, then obviously this is less about Kerry not resigning and more about you being pissed at the direction the club is going in and finding something, ANYTHING to complain about.
If the answer is yes, then I don’t understand why this particular move is the one you can’t trust their judgement on. It is incredibly inconsequential in the long run. EXCEPT it may go against whatever plan Theo and Jed have for the team. Maybe they think this year would be better spent getting a look at someone they aren’t sure on. Maybe…MAYBE Kerry isn’t looking for as short or cheap a contract as some of you think he is. Maybe Kerry knows he has his diehards on his side and is going for the gold. No one knows what’s going on in the contract talks.
Also, you aren’t “the average fan.” Neither is Al, neither are most of the guys on this site. You’re clearly a huge fan of Kerry’s. So is Al, so is all six of the people who rec’d your first comment. How can you possibly say that the “average fan” is going to get NEARLY as bent out of shape as you are, if the Cubs don’t bring back a dude who’s going to pitch a couple of times a week one inning at a time.
If I can’t speak for the average fan, then neither can you.
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
It hurt, but I had to do it...
…rec’d!!
Easy Ed - January 10, 2012
I didn't say
signing Wood showed they cared about winning. The moves they have made thus far tell me they don’t care about winning THIS YEAR. I don’t have a problem with that, if it makes the team better in the long run.
My point is if they aren’t trying to win this year AND they are going to continue to charge such high prices, they ought to throw a bone to the people that come see games. If people that come see games want to see Kerry Wood pitch, and it isn’t going to hinder the long term plan, then they shouldn’t squabble over an inconsequential amount of money.
If Theo and Jed thought bringing Wood back on a one year deal harmed the long term interests of the Cubs, as you suggest it might, then they wouldn’t have already offered him a deal and a raise. So it’s over money. My opinion is they shouldn’t allow that to happen for this one player.
I don’t have an issue with you Nunya, but I have observed on countless occasions that you are relentless in message board arguments, and will continue these kinds of things on until the right margin starts to truncate the messages. I have no interest in doing so. I have my opinion and I’ve stated it as clearly as I can. You have a differing opinion and I respect it, I just see it a different way. I just don’t want to keep going back and forth.
tomas21 - January 10, 2012
Um....
emphasis mine.
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
ಠ_ಠ
That’s your line in the sand? LOL.
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
wow just wow....speechless......
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
as long as there's a small chance of seeing wood throw 12 pitches
i’ll keep coming!
jesus christos - January 10, 2012
How about when
I laugh at you for stuff you do or don’t spend money on, you can laugh at me. Until then go fuck yourself.
tomas21 - January 10, 2012
Come on that's pretty harsh
I thought this was a family friendly site?
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
Things I don't spend $ on...
1. Twilight Books and Movies
2. Coldplay Music
3. Condoms
4. Barq’s Root Beer (I’m an A&W guy)
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
i'm not exactly sure what the lack of condoms says about you
jesus christos - January 10, 2012
He and Dan are in a committed relationship
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
I also find this pretty funny
“one person said he felt that way, and it already has 4 recs.”
So 5 people feel that way.
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
It must be correct
they’ve formed a sentimental consensus.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
That's not a good argument considering the organization
has already pissed off a well loved, hof 2nd baseman.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
I don't think the organization has done any such thing...
I think Hendry and he butted heads, but I don’t think extends beyond those two.
Not hiring him this year does not mean they didn’t treat him fairly.
bdlugz - January 10, 2012
I'm sorry if I didn't specify
This organization under Ricketts pissed off Sandberg. And yes, he was upset to the point where the new brass did feel it necessary to let him know that he wouldn’t be getting the job following Quades firing even though it seems he never had a shot in the first place.
My point is, there wasn’t a backlash in attendance when Sandberg didn’t get the job when they hired Quade. Many of us were upset but I didn’t here anyone say they were boycotting because of the way Sandberg was treated.
Again, that’s my point with Wood, they are not going to have a drop in attendance if Wood isn’t signed. That’s preposterous.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
What's wrong with that?
Because he’s a non-asset. Theo and Jed go out of their way to purge payroll. They are stockpiling assets and they are (regardless of what Jed says) making chess moves to setup for future trades. And after all of that you want “TheoJed” to sign Kerry Wood.
Again, if you think about what Theo and Jed are doing, they are not making any moves that revolve around the 2012 season except for whom they can acquire through trades when it comes time to trade the assets that they have begun to acquire.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
then how do you
derek jeter scoring a 3 year $51million deal in 2010. is he worth 17 million a year? or do you think he’s a fan favorite? if he was on any other team he would have been retired. he’s Mr Yankee. Wood to me and to most of us is the equivalent of MR cub. ASSUMING he’s not asking for anything too outrageous pay the man for all he’s done for the club and community and let him retire a cub. he still has experience and something in the tank(otherwise the reds and phillies wouldn’t request his services) so to say he’s a waste…get real. if that were the case reed johnson should be off the team too as he doesn’t fit ‘the mold’. wood isn’t taking up a spot, and I haven’t seen a scenario where theojed needs an extra $4mill to acquire someone else.
RIP Slim - January 10, 2012 via Android app
how do
you justify**
RIP Slim - January 10, 2012 via Android app
umm they are the Yankees
Have you noticed the size of their payroll? I’d say that is a great reason
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
And if you are going for the "fan favorite" effect, it helps to spend the money on a guy who essentially starts every game
ClarkFan - January 10, 2012
another example
ken griffey Jr.
why did Seattle re-sign him after he was clearly out of gas? fan favorite. he played about as often as Kerry wood did.
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
money is not the issue here
its that the Yankee’s are overpaying because hes a fan favorite,rather than that he’s the best the Yankees can get at SS.
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
Derek Jeter is going to the Hall of Fame
Kerry Wood is not.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
not part of the argument
who cares if he is or isn’t he’s still a fan favorite.
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
It actually IS part of the argument
Because you’re arguing about other teams signing fan favorites and overpaying to do it.
I’m explaining to you, that they aren’t JUST overpaying for a fan favorite. They are also overpaying because the dude’s gonna be in the hall some day
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Plus, Jeter is an everyday player.
daver - January 11, 2012
see ken griffey
post. he wasn’t an everyday day player and was signed as a fan favorite
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
And look what they paid him:
$2 MM in 2009 and $2.35 MM in 2010. But, reading your earlier post, I think we’re in agreement here. I’d like to see Woody back but at a reasonable amount.
daver - January 11, 2012
Griffey was 39 and 40 years old when those contracts were signed.
Wood is 34, will be 35 in June.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
which clearly
he had nothing left. they just signed him to play out his career where it started. I’d also like wood to do the same
RIP Slim - January 13, 2012 via Android app
TheoJed have said
… that Wood has value in the bullpen and as a clubhouse leader.
Those are worthwhile things to have in any season.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
What are they going to say "we don't want him....he sucks"?
They also said they could build around Garza…..doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
Build
as in “build system depth”.
timh815 - January 10, 2012
More like "we're going to build OFF of Garza"
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
they certainly could have said
we’re rebuilding this team, and don’t really have a place for him.
SouthWabashSoul - January 10, 2012
And that would have boosted his trade value how, exactly?
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
Whoops - looks like you were talking about Wood, not Garza
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
I'm with you.
I really don’t care one way or another on Kerry Wood. He is a good guy but he will pitch the 8th inning for a bad team. I’m not all sentimental on whether he returns or not.
Personally I wish it would just be done one way or another.
rlpete - January 10, 2012
It's partly for sentiment.
The Cubs also are short in the bullpen after trading Cashner and Marshall.
elgato - January 10, 2012
This is the primary reason to do it.
Plus, what MVZ says below about having a veteran presence on such a young team.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
Oh Please....this is pure sentimental hogwash
they could go out and find a number of cheap relievers that would bring a “veteran presence to the clubhouse”. RoLo could bring that for a quarter of the price.
Just admit it, you want to see Wood pitch on what is going to be a very bad team fulfill your need for nostalgia.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
I'm not all that big on the veteran presence thing ...
but the bullpen will be pretty bad without Wood, now that Marshall and Cashner are gone. Is your argument that the Cubs will be so bad that it doesn’t matter?
elgato - January 10, 2012
Yes
My other frustration is that Al’s real excitement is seeing that enough money might be freed up by the signing of Maholm and the possible trade of Garza, so now they can go out and sign Wood?
It’s not going to matter who’s in the bullpen, they will not compete this year and Epstein and Jed know it.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
A counter argument:
If they’re going to be so bad — and they have money to spare — what’s the harm in giving $4 million to a good relief pitcher who’s been loyal and might bring in some fans?
elgato - January 10, 2012
Exactly my point.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
I'm glad we're no longer a team ...
who gives $136 million to players to drum up fan support. But $4 million for Kerry Wood?
elgato - January 10, 2012
Because I would actually like to see some of these end their careers...
…with a ring. Wood should go to Philly if he has any interest in that.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
He already has a ring
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
how and where?
epsilon - January 10, 2012
No he doesn't.
He was with the Yankees in 2010 not 2009.
elgato - January 10, 2012
I thought he got one with the yankees
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
He did not. They lost to Texas in the playoffs.
D98 - January 10, 2012
Sorry I was mistaken
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
If he'd rather stay in Chicago?
elgato - January 10, 2012
thats his choice...
go to philly where they’ll pay him and he might win a world series…at least seriously compete
or take 2 million from the cubs and be comfortable.
epsilon - January 10, 2012
That's the problem this time he's not going to take 2 million
He’s going to be an expensive non-asset on a dismal team.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
But if the difference is $2 million ...
who cares? The Cubs have that money available. And it wouldn’t be a long-term commitment.
Seems like you’re making some sort of principled argument here, and I don’t really know why.
elgato - January 10, 2012
Principled argument? No.
But I don’t understand why someone would get excited about signing a relief pitcher and telling TheoJed to “get it done” when we know what this year brings.
It’s spraying glade on a pile of dog crap and calling it potpourri.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
This is a classic BCB argument.
Me: It’s not a big deal, so why not do it?
You: It’s not a big deal, so why do it?
Beyond the fact that the Cubs bullpen without Wood would be Marmol, Shark, Russell and potentially the next generation of Caridad-Berg-Mateo …
I know that, right now, I’m not that excited to go see the 2012 Cubs play at Wrigley or on TV — even though I believe in TheoJed’s long-term strategy. Garza looks like a goner, Castro is a little harder to root for, Dempster is creaky, and nobody else set to make the 25-man (other than MAYBE Marmol, whom I expect will bounce back) is that interesting of a player.
This isn’t me saying the Cubs should go all 2006-07 and rob the future, mind you. But the guys I’m excited about (Jackson, Rizzo) are basically set to start the year in AAA. So, giving a couple extra million to Wood — who cost himself between $3.5 and $8.5 million to sign with the Cubs last offseason — makes perfect sense to me.
Now, if you don’t think going to Wrigley or watching the Cubs on TV would be more fun with Kerry on the roster, then we’re not going to agree on this entire matter (which is fine). But I think Kerry’s ability to excite some fans AND fill out a bad bullpen is worth $4 million — especially given that the Cubs have more payroll flexibility now than they’ve had in several years.
elgato - January 10, 2012
Exactly
CubFanInChina - January 10, 2012
I don't think Kid K generates that kind of fan excitement anymore.
He’s not Kid K anymore. Nobody’s going to the park just to yell sweet somethings to his ear when he sits in the pen.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
You could be right.
It’s a very difficult thing to measure, though.
elgato - January 10, 2012
there's also an off-the-field presence that Wood brings as well
team events, promotions, etc.
ballhawk - January 10, 2012
More power to him...as long as he wants to take another lowball....
…deal.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
The Phillies are getting old.
I wonder if their run is coming to an end. They’ll have competition in their division this year.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
Halladay, Hamels and Lee are still really, really good.
You are right, though, their original cast are all getting older.
They’re still easily the class of the league, though, it would seem. Even with Ryan Howard out for the year.
And they still have some young talent, with Brown, Pence, Worley, Bastardo, et. al. More than we do, probably.
D98 - January 10, 2012
Oh, I'm not saying they're not good.
Certainly, they are contenders and likely go into the year as favorites in the NL East.
It would not surprise me if we saw signs of decline from them this year.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
Well, if Kerry is picking based on possible contention ...
he’ll stay the hell away from the Cubs.
elgato - January 10, 2012
Comnsidering the maret right now, you think Fielder would sign for 1 year with the Phillies?
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Probably not.
At this point, it wouldn’t surprise me if he took a one-year deal to go back to Milwaukee and then hit the FA market again next year.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
Milwaukee?
I would be absolutely shocked. If they had the money to do that, they wouldn’t have backloaded Aramis’ deal to the extent that they did.
Now, a 1-year deal in Texas? Maybe. But I bet he ends up in Washington or Seattle at this point.
elgato - January 10, 2012
I just don't see the Mariners spending that kind of money.
The Nats could, but I don’t think they will until Boras’ demands are lowered.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
Why not the Mariners?
They’ve been discussed as a possible landing spot for months, and they haven’t made many moves this offseason.
elgato - January 10, 2012
I dunno.
Just an impression. As you say, they haven’t made many moves, and if they were that good a fit, maybe they’d have gone after him already.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
Does Fielder want to consider 20 HRs a good year?
ClarkFan - January 10, 2012
He should sign with the Cubs
then accept a trade to Philly in July for a prospect, win a ring, and then re-sign with the Cubs for 2013 and win another ring.
SouthWabashSoul - January 10, 2012
I realize that the Cubs won't be a great, or probably even good team in 2012
But when all it takes is a little extra $$ to sign a guy like Wood, I think you do it. It’s one thing to have a mediocre team, but to compound it with blowing the leads you do have can be demoralizing to a young team.
davidalanu - January 10, 2012
You don’t know that. “Veteran presence” doesn’t just mean a veteran who is present.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
And what has would shown you to tell you that he's a student of the game.
He’s not and never has been, he was a talented thrower that never quite grew into his potential.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
Would? Wood.......Sorry.
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
Sentimental Hogwash?
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
I love it!!!
troutfishin - January 10, 2012
As a Warren Zevon fan,
I think of Sentimental Hygiene.
timh815 - January 10, 2012
Wood is one of the vets that should stay
You need to have some veteran players around to show the kids the right way to handle not just the on field experiences, but the off field as well. He is also well liked and respected in the clubhouse, front office and community. Wood is a guy that has battled his way back from multiple injuries to have a successful career. Say one of your new young pitchers comes up and blows out his arm in his third start, wouldn’t you want to have someone like Wood around who has been through the ups and downs to give support and advice?
And it is not all baseball related things that veterans can help young guys with. You need to remember that some of these young players really are basically kids, only out of high school or college a couple of years. Having mentors around that can teach them the proper ways to handle life on the road, and just how to be a responsible adult.
MVZ - January 10, 2012
Wood brings in more fans than just through his pitching.
He is an ambassador in the community and has brought in a lot of fans just through his charity and service to the community.
I will be pretty shocked if he is not signed. Just like Maholm can’t be announced until there is room on the 40 man I think it is the same for Kerry. There is no way Theo won’t pony up 4-5 million for what Kerry adds to the team.
CubFanInChina - January 10, 2012
Stronger bullpen might help young starters...
Protecting leads should help young pitchers gain confidence, but it has the additional bonus of increasing the perceived value of guys like Dempster, Wells, or Garza that might be traded at the deadline. As much as teams shouldn’t put much stake in W-L totals, it’d be much easier to move a guy with average peripherals if they have at least a .500 winning percentage.
I’d bring back Wood if he’s open to talking a deal without a no-trade clause, though I’d hope the Cubs brass would consult him before making any deals. Between his value at the deadline and the possible increase in value to our other tradable starters, it just seems like a low-risk move that could pay dividends. If they need the money to go after guys like Soler or other international prospects, I’m all for it. Unfortunately, the new CBA doesn’t allow us to simply invest savings into above-slot draft signings, and we need to stop acting like it does.
Zachary Piso - January 10, 2012
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! x 1000
Easy Ed - January 10, 2012
Wood, besides being a fan favorite, has a ton of value
He’s been consistant the last few years and hasn’t had any major injuries. I think you can expect at least 1 trip to the DL but he’s been pretty good about that. Everyone get’s banged up
The biggest thing he provides for the team is back up insurance for Marmol. If Marmol can’t handle the closer role or is so good at it that we trade him, Wood can step in. There’s nobody else on the roster I’d want in the 9th inning other than him
Musicdude10 - January 10, 2012
I really like this signing.
Though we now have a plethora of lefties in the starting rotation, I still think Maholm brings some good things to the Cubs rotation.
Word here in Detroit is that the Tigers don’t really want to trade Jacob Turner, but I think they would in the right situation (since they are a playoff caliber team right now). I’m ok now with trading Garza (as long as we get a crazy haul of top-shelf talent back) whether that be the tigers or the Yankees.
CubFanSince1970 - January 10, 2012
Two is a plethora?
cubzfan - January 10, 2012
Isn't Volstad a lefty?
If not , then my mistake.
CubFanSince1970 - January 10, 2012
2 pitchers out of 5
Could be a plethora.
I think 5 BCB points for using plethora
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
I'll offer up 5 more BCB points for using "plethora" withOUT prefacing it with "veritable"
ballhawk - January 10, 2012
That's more of a "cornucopia" description, isn't it?
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
That's so thanksgiving
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
Or housewarming
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopia
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
Eh, it's a long story
and a reference I knew no one else would get.
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
Where you going for the Shawn type references?
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
Nice thought
But that one was from my own experience.
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
Wreckard - January 10, 2012
This is a great deal that will hopefully work out better than the Gorzo try
Oh, yes, and ROLL TIDE!!!!
BAMACOLONEL - January 10, 2012
The trend continues
I am absolutely loving this trend of NON-overspending TheoJed have been doing. This is how you run a team!
rbarnold2626 - January 10, 2012
Good signing.
Question I’ve been mulling: The Cubs are clearly trying to add pitching depth — and not just the RoLo/Casey Coleman variety. Trading one of our current starters makes more sense now, so … what are the chances Dempster is dealt?
I’m guessing the Cubs would have to pay some of his salary, but Dempster would have some value as a No. 3-4 starter for a better team.
elgato - January 10, 2012
wait till midsason
it doesnt make sense trying to trade him off right now since he had a bad 2011 season.
Geo4MVP - January 10, 2012
Yeah. That makes some sense.
elgato - January 10, 2012
My wish is that Dempster is our 5th starter...
in 2014 when the Cubs win the series.
epsilon - January 10, 2012
I like Demp.
But the only way that should happen is if he signs elsewhere in 2013 and then returns to the Cubs in 2014.
If he stays with the Cubs, he’s going to still cost ~$14M which is way too much for a 5th starter.
fsuapollo - January 10, 2012
oh amen,
my comment wasnt necessarily that we should re-sign dempster at all costs..its just that i like dempster and i’d like him to be around for the fun run after enduring all the crap.
epsilon - January 10, 2012
Sounds good.
How about….. bullpen coach??
I kid… kind of.
fsuapollo - January 10, 2012
whats Koyie hill gonna do then?
epsilon - January 10, 2012
Hitting instructor, of course.
fsuapollo - January 10, 2012
If Demp is pitching well at the break, he should garner interest.
Hopefully the Cubs don’t have to absorb the money in order to receive a good value in return.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
def and im sure we can get back two type B prospects for him
Geo4MVP - January 10, 2012
or if theo does his magic, we can get one type A :)
Geo4MVP - January 10, 2012
If someone has to go,
I would hope it’s Dempster.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
demps has done well with the cubs
he had a bad season and it was mainly due to bad luck. look at his FIP.
Geo4MVP - January 10, 2012
Yes, he has
but he’s not part of the future of this team. Neither is Wood.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
And the manager
leaving him in too long.
SouthWabashSoul - January 10, 2012
Why? What's the difference?
He’ll be 35 in May, and he’s coming off his worst statistical season since 2006. He’s on the last year of his contract and he won’t be re-signed beyond 2012.
Are you trying to build the all-sentimental team? You want Ryne to coach it? And Jody Davis on the bench?t Kerry Wood as pitching coach? Mark Grace as hitting instructor?
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Ehh... nevermind. Reading comprehension fail. Thought it said "Not Dempster."
Considering it was NBF, I jumped to conclusions. My apologies.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Not Bruce ...
most certainly does not want Ryne Sandberg to manage.
elgato - January 10, 2012
I wasn't enticed to participate in those discussions. Probably a good thing.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
me either
moments of life I couldn’t get back.
Also we don’t know if JH when he signed him to that deal said to him we’ll take care of in 2012 since you are signing this in 2011
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
they want to have 6 starters on hand
check out how they built boston for years and years. They always have 6 available starting options on the team. They’re planning for a pitching injury to happen, because they almost always do at some point. It’s smart
DartmouthCubsFan - January 10, 2012
cheap signing for a slightly below average pitcher at worst
let maholm-mania begin!
jesus christos - January 10, 2012 via Android app
It has to be
Maholm-palooza
timh815 - January 10, 2012
If Garza goes to Detroit
Turner has to come back, no?
What else?
timh815 - January 10, 2012
Hopefully more TOR pitching.
Maybe, we take a look at the two highky-touted Yankees minor league pitchers as another good option.
We need as many TOR pitchers in the system as we can get right now IMO.
CubFanSince1970 - January 10, 2012
Turner is the only TOR option in Detroit
Andrew Oliver and Casey Crosby both have great stuff, but their control (and health) will make them relievers. I want Drew Smyly as the 2nd piece, but that’s probably a pipe dream.
RynoRooter - January 10, 2012
If we're sending back a prospect of equal value
Then we might get the top pitchers we want?
SackMan - January 10, 2012
I suppose it's possible
But haven’t all the blurbs been mentioning Blake DeWitt, Darwin Barney or a big league pen arm to go along with Garza? Seems more likely to me, as it would clear up another 40 man spot.
Something like Garza/DeWitt for Turner/Smyly/filler
RynoRooter - January 10, 2012
I haven't read anything like that.
But, I was just thinking if we really wanted Smyly, we could send back one our younger pitching prospects. Or if we really wanted their 3rd base prospect, we can send back Vitters.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Not a bad thing to have two lefties in the rotation
Considering the Reds run production is led by Votto and Bruce (two lefites), and Bruce’s splits vs LHP drops quite a bit.
However, looking at the Cardinals: Berkman and Beltran switch hit, and Freese and Holliday hit from the right side. So, they’re still gonna murder us next year.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
So question...
if Garza isn’t traded and they break Spring training with :
Garza
Dempster
Wood
Volstad
Malholm
Wells
Who is in the roation?
SUB question: is it worth Stretching Shark out now that there are a few starting pitchers to compete?
epsilon - January 10, 2012
Shark should pitch the
7th or 8th, depending. Hope for a good year, and flip him if he has one.
timh815 - January 10, 2012
Gordon Wittenmeyer speculated that Shark could be headed to the rotation.
But, I don’t really see that happening. I think it was pure speculation on his part. Shark finally put it together last year and should stay in a similar role. Plus, he doesn’t appear to have a good enough arsenal of pitches to be a starter.
Given that we’ve moved Marshall, keep Shark in the pen.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Right.
I don’t get the “Samardzija as a starter” talk I’ve been hearing.
He was actually good as a reliever, most of the time. He could become a decent setup guy. Why keep shifting him around?
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
He did a great job last year.
And he and Russell should be a better than average duo to get the ball to Marmol.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
However, once April arrives, Marmol becomes our best trade asset.
If he gets it back together, the Cubs could really get tremendous value for him.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
If Samardzija does well enough as a setup guy
… then if Marmol is traded, Shark could be given a shot as closer.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
I like Chris Carpenter's potential for the closer role.
The one really good thing Hendry left for TheoJed were a few potential late inning arms.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Agreed.
Hendry could find talented, if fragile, arms.
elgato - January 10, 2012
And if they weren't fragile when he got them...
EcoGeek - January 10, 2012
I like Carpenter, too.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
IMO
Wood is most likely to move to being a long man/spot starter.
SouthWabashSoul - January 10, 2012
You're talking about Travis Wood, right?
I can’t see him in that role. If he’s not in the MLB rotation on Opening Day, he could start the year at Iowa.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
yes, Travis Wood
Why not? We will need another lefty in the pen to go with Russell, and I have serious doubts Maine or Gaub are that player.
I also think his upside is lowest of the 6.
SouthWabashSoul - January 10, 2012
Pfft.
Travis Wood has more upside than Randy Wells.
elgato - January 10, 2012
Maybe, but that's not an obviously true statement
it’s very debatable.
Also Volstad, Malholm and Wells are more entrenched as big-league starters than Wood. Given the need for another lefty in the pen, and without seeing their performances in Spring Training, I lean my way for now.
SouthWabashSoul - January 10, 2012
I think the question
may be moot by the end of the week anyway.
SouthWabashSoul - January 10, 2012
I'm holding out hope for Beliveau to be another lefty in the pen.
CubFan90 - January 10, 2012
I think Volstad goes to the Pen as long man/ spot starter
He might only face righties too because he gets crushed by lefties.
2.82 FIP vs righties and 5.96 FIP vs lefties
Mitchener - January 10, 2012
The crazy thing
If Dempster, Wood, Volstad, Maholm, and Wells combine for ERA below 4.8 then the Rotation is much better than last year. The 2-5 starters probably averaged more than a 5 ERA.
Bill James Projections by ERA:
Demspter 3.95
Wood 3.75
Volstad 4.34
Maholm 4.22
Wells 4.24
Avg ERA: 4.1
Even if Garza Regresses , modest improvements for the rest of the starters will keep this team pretty close to 71 wins.
Mitchener - January 10, 2012
Suddenly
TheoJed not being more active in the Rule 5 draft makes a bit more sense. Didn’t expect the 40 man roster to be quite so full at this point.
EcoGeek - January 10, 2012
I don't get the
Lendry Castillo pickup. At all.
timh815 - January 10, 2012
Yeah...
That’s a bit of a head-scratcher to me, too.
EcoGeek - January 10, 2012
I should amend this by saying...
Perhaps not that they weren’t more active in Rule 5, but that they didn’t protect more players.
EcoGeek - January 10, 2012
Apparently they didn't value the guys we had anyway,
Which seems par for the course in Cubs farm history. Only the old Cubs regime thought they had good players, while the rest of the league smirked.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Not to disagree entirely
Because our farm system was definitely thin, but no one lost more players in the Major League phase of the Rule 5 draft than we did (Washington also lost 2 players, no one else lost more than 1). Suggests that some teams thought we had some decent players in the minors.
EcoGeek - January 10, 2012
It was curious that we didn't protect Flaherty.
But, the new execs didn’t value these guys, and their track record suggests they know what they’re doing.
The consensus from the top prospect sports writers was that the Cubs system had plenty of guys who would be on a major league roster, but very little impact players.
Now TheoJed are trying to very quickly build the system back up with more talented prospects.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
I love this deal
Good job TheoJed!
slcathena - January 10, 2012
It's a Beautiful day in Chicago
Clear blue skies and plenty of sunshine, all courtesy of Paul Maholm.
RiskyBusiness - January 10, 2012
just walked my dog in flip-flops....I think I definitely got a touch of spring fever today
Go Cubs :)
cooliogirl47 - January 10, 2012
How do you get your dog to wear flip-flops?
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
lol
cooliogirl47 - January 10, 2012
By laughing?
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
Out loud.
Arbusto - January 10, 2012
I cleaned out my car
Now my windows are open. It’s 52 degrees. Thursday high 21 and now they are calling for snow :(
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
If I had a choice between NYY and DET to trade Garza...
I would choose NYY because I think they can offer more.. I don’t like Soto’s bat anymore one bit and Montero is the #1 C prospect in the bigs. Garza for Montero, Banuelos (Solid #2-3 SP) and Bentances.
Superman - January 10, 2012
I can't see any way NY takes that offer. I doubt they do Montero for Garza straight up.
IOftenPanic - January 10, 2012
The problem is Montero is not a catcher.
Nobody thinks he could be a starting catcher at the big league level defensively.
fsuapollo - January 10, 2012
The other problem is the Yankees would laugh uncontrollably at that request as they hung up the phone.
bdlugz - January 10, 2012
I was trying to keep it simple.
fsuapollo - January 10, 2012
Fair enough.
bdlugz - January 10, 2012
Epstein wants at least
3 A prospects for Garza. Last I checked Montero, Banuelos, are Bentances are PROSPECTS. You act like they are have made it to mulitiple all-star games.
Superman - January 10, 2012
I think it's great that's what Theo wants...
Doesn’t mean that he isn’t going to be laughed off the phone, because he will.
Prospects are only prospects, yes, but they have value as well.
bdlugz - January 11, 2012
If that deal were feasible...
…it probably would’ve happened already.
daver - January 10, 2012
For people wondering about our salary situation in 2012 and 2013...
…here’s a spreadsheet I did.
Cubs Salaries
Also did one for the Bears and Bulls if people are interested.
Assumes new CBA minimum-salary for players on cost-control years. Arb salary projections from MLB Trade Rumors. Obviously some moves will be made and it’s open to debate on who will be with the team and in what position.
Assumed Jackson and Rizzo start/play most of the year in the minors.
IOftenPanic - January 10, 2012
Blake "The Francise" DeWitt bats L, not R.
ubercubsfan - January 10, 2012
Changed!
Yeah if you see any mistakes/want to make suggestions let me know.
IOftenPanic - January 10, 2012
Also, I never get a firm answer when I try to find this out.
But places I’ve read say Pena’s whole salary was counted on 2011’s payroll, just paid January 1st.
ubercubsfan - January 10, 2012
Not sure on that...
…the best reports I’ve read said $5M was applied this January… I’m sure someone has the link and the accurate info. I am just assuming the “worst”.
IOftenPanic - January 10, 2012
I think you are right.
I just stumbled onto this article which is newer than the last time I checked.
Pena received $2 million December, 2010; $3 million during the 2011 season and another payment of $5 million is due in January, 2012. The $5 million will count against the Cubs’ 2012 payroll.
ubercubsfan - January 10, 2012
With the way this breaks out.
Does this mean if Pena accepted Arbitration, would he only get a raise based on 3 or 5MM that was his 2011 salary?
ubercubsfan - January 10, 2012
Would Scott Boras allow that happen?
RiskyBusiness - January 10, 2012
Yeah, I believe that's what I read as well.
At any rate we are probably around $107M this year and likely under $75M committed for next year any way you slice it. I imagine if we start bringing in names it will be in 2013 or 2014 despite our low payroll this year.
IOftenPanic - January 10, 2012
we're still on the hook for $2Mil for Silva's Buyout?
epsilon - January 10, 2012
According to Cot's Contracts we are.
IOftenPanic - January 10, 2012
wow...that dude wont go away...
epsilon - January 10, 2012
Bobby Bonilla
Won’t go away. Silva’s done now (I hope?)
EcoGeek - January 10, 2012
It isn't just Silva - that is Bradley money, too
Gifts that keep on giving….
ClarkFan - January 10, 2012
Oh, you changed Baker to L instead of Franchise.
lol
ubercubsfan - January 10, 2012
Think I fixed it correctly now.
Hard to do this while also avoiding my real work.
IOftenPanic - January 10, 2012
You should probably clarify
which salaries are definitive and which are projections.
For instance, you are projecting Soto to make $4M in arb, which is almost assuredly light. He made $3M last year and his track record will suggest a raise to probably $5M.
And not that you can’t, but fwiw, Cot’s already does this.
fsuapollo - January 10, 2012
I but I did...
…color-coded key at the bottom. Anything in BLACK is definitive, BROWN is estimated. I used MLB Trade Rumor’s Arbitration Projections, which are the most accurate year-in-and-year-out that I’ve seen. $4M would be a 33% increase, which is probably going to be very close considering his drop in production.
Cot’s doesn’t put in projected arbitration or minimum salaries, to get a better picture of what the actual 25-man will look like, plus sometimes they include signing bonuses pro-rated, which I don’t think is how it works in baseball (football it does). Don’t quote me on that last bit, though, I could be wrong.
IOftenPanic - January 10, 2012
Tweet from Paul Sullivan:
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
I don't believe it, it's a tweet!!!
ubercubsfan - January 10, 2012
I knew someone would say that.
It only took a minute.
Still, it reports facts — i.e. something Hoyer actually said.
Al Yellon - January 10, 2012
those words did come out of his mouth
the question is: do we believe him?
epsilon - January 10, 2012
I mean, what's he going to say in that situation?
elgato - January 10, 2012
I have a full house and I'm going all in?
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Again, this is the difference between Jed and Jim
Jim probably does make some hamfisted comment about Garza now being on the market, then sits back and watches the offers of below average A ball players roll in
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
Or Hendry would
trade Garza… and then go negotiate with Maholm, knowing he needed to sign him.
fsuapollo - January 10, 2012
Yup
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
And thereby handing out a 4 year contract at $9 million or more per
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
NTC! NTC!
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
Unless I'm mistaken
Doesn’t the Maholm signing have to be a precursor to another move? Otherwise, how does Maholm wind up on the 40-man roster?
EcoGeek - January 10, 2012
They'll release Mateo.
elgato - January 10, 2012
Yes.
Jed’s statement is meant to impart that they did not specifically sign Maholm as the first domino before a trade.
If they can’t get a trade done, then someone will have to be jettisoned.
fsuapollo - January 10, 2012
Kerry Wood is moving on
Kaplan spoke to Kerry. They are not going to pay him what he deserves.
I hate this move. I understand it from a baseball logic perspective. But in a time a transition, a young team needs good leaders, and the Cubs fans need someone to love and respect.
Pay Kerry Wood for the honor of having him around. He’s good people. And a good reliever to boot.
KO Stradivarius - January 10, 2012
No. Just No
Pay Kerry Wood because you think he can serve a purpose on your team. No other reason
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
Exactly.
Which is why I want him to stay.
katie casey - January 10, 2012
agreed, and he does serve a purpose...
…a strong leader for a young team and good reliever. The secondary benefit is he is a fan favorite and loyal to the organization and will be for life.
JB 23 - January 10, 2012
Kap isn't most reliable source sometimes
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
Kap's been as good as anybody lately.
elgato - January 10, 2012
true
But that bar is set pretty low
Madison Cub Fan - January 10, 2012
ummm...
they have two: Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer for NOT signing Kerry Wood for the honor of having him around.
epsilon - January 10, 2012
Normally,
I’d agree with you. However, Kerry is certainly more than roster filler at this stage in his career. There’s a competitive market for his services, and the Cubs have a stated interest in keeping him affiliated with the club well past his playing career, which usually means trying to keep that player tied to the club until he retires. Pay the man.
Damen Jackson - January 10, 2012
i'll agree with you...
but we shouldnt pay him for the honor of having him around. i’m not going to get all pissy if they give him 4 million…but i dont like the "fan"sentiment of paying him for the honor of having him around…reeks of Jim Hendry’s pungent aroma.
epsilon - January 10, 2012
seriously
Kaplan?
drewishdrewid - January 10, 2012
Bruce Miles gets into the action on Kerry-gate
ballhawk - January 10, 2012
there's a large gap
between substantial raise and “market rate”
they could offer wood 3 million, which is a 100% raise (certainly substantial) and the market rate for kerry’s services are 5 million, still leaving a large gap
it’s all speculation on my part, but i see room for both sides to be right on this one
DartmouthCubsFan - January 10, 2012
"Substantial" had better be at least as much of a raise as they gave Koyie Hill last year....
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
Let. It. Go.
ballhawk - January 10, 2012
It's a part of me, like bringing back Bob Howry....some things never leave you.
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
At least a fan charged him on the mound. That was priceless!
SackMan - January 10, 2012
I understand...
I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Chad Fox.
Damen Jackson - January 10, 2012
My favorite has to be David Patton
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
Ah yes...
Reminds me a little bit of Chuck Cunningham. Dispatched to the bullpen, never to be seen again, with most trying to forget that he was ever here.
Ah, Happy Days.
Damen Jackson - January 10, 2012
This reminds me of when Kerry left after 2008.
There was a dispute as to what Kerry wanted versus what Hendry offered — something about Kerry being willing to take a 1-year deal, but Hendry saying Kerry wasn’t willing to do that.
elgato - January 10, 2012
I've been thinking the same thing.
It looks very possible that Kerry Wood could be leaving the Cubs under awkward circumstances TWICE in his career. Weird.
daver - January 10, 2012
we aren't getting gregg again, are we?
jesus christos - January 10, 2012
No, but if we trade Garza to the Marlins...
…we could get Jose Ceda back.
daver - January 10, 2012
Welcome back Tom Gorzelanny!
…err I mean welcome Paul Maholm.
JB 23 - January 10, 2012
4.25 million
this regime gets you ~190 innings of 4.00 FIP, and did it with a friendly club option
last regime paid for ~60 innings of 4.50 FIP, and did it with 2 guaranteed years
DartmouthCubsFan - January 10, 2012
And that's without factoring in inflation
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
The contrast in competency...
is really pretty extreme, isn’t it?
Damen Jackson - January 10, 2012
So, what's this lineup gonna look like at this point? Any guesses?
1. Barney 2B
2. Castro SS
3. Byrd-Jackson CF
4. Soto C
5. Soriano LF
6. LaHair-Rizzo 1B
7. DDJ-RJ RF
8. Stewart-Baker 3B
SackMan - January 10, 2012
this shoulda been a fanpost... ;-)
ballhawk - January 10, 2012
Eh... somebody else can start that one!
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Soto won't hit cleanup.
Catchers almost never do because it disrupts the lineup when they can’t play. He won’t hit higher than fifth. Otherwise, I think it’s tough to project, because we don’t know what will happen with Soriano and Byrd. But I’d bet on DDJ leading off and Castro hitting third. There’s no way Brett Jackson hits third — unless it’s in Des Moines.
elgato - January 10, 2012
Good point on the catcher and the #4 spot.
I thought DDJ would be a leadoff candidate, but the combo of Barney and Castro did very well at the top last year.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Barney seriously declined after the ASB.
He has no power and no OBP. Here’s what I would like to see (assuming Byrd is traded and Soriano isn’t).
DDJ, Jackson, Castro, LaHair, Soriano, Stewart, Soto, Barney
I know that’s a lot of pressure on LaHair, but he might be the best cleanup option, particularly if Rizzo (as is expected) starts the season in AAA.
If, somehow, Soriano is traded and Cespedes is a Cub, he could easily move into the No. 5 spot.
elgato - January 10, 2012
Cespedes is 26 and may be seeking more than a 4 year deal.
Is that a risk worth taking? What if you have to do 6 years to get him? And he’s an unknown vs MLB pitching?
SackMan - January 10, 2012
I'm not sold on Cespedes.
I really don’t know enough about him, or what he’ll require in a contract.
That said, I still think the Cubs will make at least one more mid-priced move this offseason if the player is young and relatively cheap. Cespedes would probably fit that mold — but he might not.
elgato - January 10, 2012
It could be great or could end up bad.
But, I think the risks outweigh the reward. Speculation is $6-8 mil/year for 6-8 years. Link
I’d rather see the Cubs invest in younger top international prospects.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
I wouldn't do this yet
Our current projected lineup is too frightening to bear. Don’t torture yourself.
KO Stradivarius - January 10, 2012
Right now?
I really doubt this is “all there is to work with”, but I would think it would go…
DDJ
Stewart/Byrd (there’s really no obvious 2 hitter unless you put DDJ here and have Castro keep leading off… in which case Byrd will be your 3 hitter…. yikes)
Castro
LaHair
Soriano
Stewart/Byrd
Soto
Barney
fsuapollo - January 10, 2012
BJax makes sense hitting second ...
if they trade Byrd.
elgato - January 10, 2012
That makes sense if you're willing to start LH-LH
Otherwise you could go to: DDJ, Barney, Castro, LaHair, Sori, Stewart, Soto, BJ (not a fan of a rookie hitting 8th in the NL, but with his plate patience, he’d be a better fit than others).
fsuapollo - January 10, 2012
I'm fine with LH-LH.
The rest of the lineup is balanced. BJax hitting eighth seems like a bad idea.
elgato - January 10, 2012
Oh I agree... I like yours better.
Was just posting another option as we all kill time until ST.
fsuapollo - January 10, 2012
It won't be a pretty line up but the best option is
1.DDj ( gets on base)
2.Byrd (runs bases well)
3.Castro (best clutch hitter)
4.Lahair (shown patience at plate and power)
5.Soriano (did well with risp)
6.Soto (Decent power)
7.Stewart (moves up when soto doesn’t start)
8.Barney ( Might lead off against lefties)
Mitchener - January 10, 2012
This has to be the most exciting off-season I can remember
and it probably won’t even mean that they are even all that good this season. I do expect them to compete and not be as dumb/lazy as they have been in the past though.
I can’t even imagine what next winter will bring.
Mapmaker - January 10, 2012
It better bring
some looser pursestrings.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
I get the feeling you're not happy about what's going on with this new front office
Could you expound on that?
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
Not for you
Go back and look at what I’ve written. It’s all there for those who care.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
I was being sarcastic
I’m not shocked it confused you
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
I'm surprised you didn't pick the low hanging fruit
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
I'd love to see NBF and azjazzman argue.
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
They don't have to prove anything to us
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
But they know everything
and say nothing. That type of paradox rivals Doc Brown’s.
Craig in South Bend - January 10, 2012
Great Scott!
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
This is heavy.
Craig in South Bend - January 10, 2012
There's that word again.
Arbusto - January 10, 2012
Why are things so heavy in the future?
Is there a problem with the earth’s gravitational pull?
Craig in South Bend - January 10, 2012
What?
Shanghai Badger - January 10, 2012
Make like a tree....
and get out of here!
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
They ain't heavy...they're my brother.
daver - January 10, 2012
it will
when spending the money actually helps increase the chances of winning meaningful games
DartmouthCubsFan - January 10, 2012
Hope so
Hope ensuing revenue declines the next year or two don’t screw up that theory.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
i dont think it will matter
even if revenues decline you can build a winning team with a 105 million payroll, which would leave the Cubs 30+ million in the next two offseasons to put to good use. The team also won’t need to spend on “filling in pieces around the diamond” because they’re doing it now through trade and cheap FA signings with guys who we control for multiple years.
Throw in Jackson, Castro, Rizzo as a core offense to build around and you’re basically talking about spending on a big bat at the corner OF or 3B and 2 front-end SP’s. It’s all within reason
DartmouthCubsFan - January 10, 2012
You talk about signing 2 front-end SPs like it will be easy
There will be fierce competition for those guys, including the Yankees in the market for at least one. Getting 2 without doing something dumb will be very hard.
ClarkFan - January 10, 2012
Nameless heroes
I wish it were as easy as going to a store and just buying two pitchers. Ah, well, I guess it’s always easy in fantasy BB.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
"People act like buying free agents is easy!"
/bitches when Cubs don’t buy free agents
shoemile - January 11, 2012
I was just about to say the same thing.
Even for Bruce, this was an odd way to chime in
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
When you're building a portfolio of cost-controlled talent, you don't need to break the bank on payroll.
See Rays, Tampa. A team that’s actually made it to the Word Series in the last 100 years.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
as you write that
it makes me think back to a group of posters on the board who felt another group was obsessed with winning without spending (i.e. being a small mkt team or having to win with home-grown talent, etc). I’m not sure if NBF was on either side of this debate back then (like 3 years ago i think)
but i feel like there’s a certain portion of the board that is obsessed with the idea of HAVING TO SPEND in order to win.
The best scenario is probably somewhere in the middle, where we can develop our own cheap talent and we dont need FA’s to fill out a team, but we have the resources available to make a big signing when it makes sense. This is what I think Theo-Jed are going for, but it takes time to build it
DartmouthCubsFan - January 10, 2012
The last 20 something years this organization has taken the "SPEND TO WIN" approach...
it’s basically sucked balls as a organizational strategy. Most of us agree you have to “spend” when it’s appropriate…but it seems this new Front Office is going to make damn sure that footing the large bills is only going to happen when the team is in a position to best leverage taking the risk on adding multiple large contracts. They seem to be building the foundation for a team that can begin to pick and choose which high priced talent they want, instead of the previous position of “OMG A GOOD FREE AGENT IS AVAILABLE…WE NEED TO GET HIM!”
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
bingo
well said
DartmouthCubsFan - January 10, 2012
Rec'd for honesty
epsilon - January 10, 2012
God I hope that's true.
Mapmaker - January 10, 2012
????? The "spend to win" didn't start until the 2006-2007 offseason. Prior to that, the spirit of the Wrigleys lived on.
ClarkFan - January 10, 2012
Yeah, I don't recall
the Cubs going on too many spending sprees until Sam Zell took over.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 10, 2012
Do you recall them trying to draft good talent and develop it?
I don’t.
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
Are you trying to tell me that Mike Harkey and Hector Villanueva
weren’t perfect examples of just that?
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Other than Dallas Green, I don't recall them actually trying to win
They didn’t sign top line free agents or develop players. Those years of failure didn’t have some mystical, unscrutable cause.
ClarkFan - January 11, 2012
We are finally committed to building a winning organization from the ground up
For what could be defined as the first time ever. And it goes beyond the players. It’s building the proper executive team, scouting, developing, coaching, training facilities, video analysis, and other modern things that never existed on a competitive level before in this team’s history.
The great thing about being in a large market is, the Cubs can retain their home grown talents at market prices if they choose, unlike the Rays who can’t afford to pay them and must replace them with other top young talent.
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Nice fantasy, but that's not how teams compete year in and year out.
ClarkFan - January 10, 2012
I can't agree more
And judging by the large amount of comments at this time of the year on this site, many others agree as well.
At minimum we have many unknowns going into the season. On the upside it will be nice to see new faces with hope they can contribute and grow as we all watch.
wild bill - January 10, 2012
Maholm: 2nd Miss St. Bulldog Ever with Cubs
Rafael Palmeiro was the first.
memphiscub - January 10, 2012
Ryno's Wife's ears just perked up
Nunyabidness - January 10, 2012
ISWYDT
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
Kaplan v Hoyer
Wow, Hoyer refuted both of Kaplan’s claims on Garza and Kerry today. Should be an interesting week.
KO Stradivarius - January 10, 2012
Bwahahaha!
SackMan - January 10, 2012
Just ignore Kaplan
he’s a moron.
Hammer - January 10, 2012
It's all about the ground balls.
Assuming Garza is traded (and I’m leaning toward believing he will be), here’s our projected rotation and career groundball percentages:
Demp – 46.7%
Wells: 46.1%
Maholm: 52.3%
Volstad: 50.4%
Wood: 31.4%
OK, Travis Wood doesn’t really fit. But he’s young and maybe he’ll benefit from pitching with so many other pitchers with good to great ground ball rates. In any case, it looks like Theo & Jed are trying to keep the ball out of the air. The big gamble there, of course, is that our defense will be as awful as it was last year. Hope not.
In any case, I love the Maholm deal and look forward to the roller coaster ride this rotation will probably put us on. It’s not a contending staff, but it is interesting.
daver - January 10, 2012
I seem to recall
In discussions about the Marshall/Wood trade that Wood had changed something and was expected to have a much higher groundball percentage in the future.
Then again, it could have been the crack I was smoking that day…
EcoGeek - January 10, 2012
Interesting post
It started out so positive until you reminded me of who is playing SS
Mapmaker - January 10, 2012
Gotta hope things change for the better.
If anything, a pitching staff like this may force Starlin to improve defensively.
daver - January 10, 2012
Love this Maholm guy already
He tweeted Rosenthal and told him he isnt very good at math. I assume this was from his reporting of his contract.
AzCubfan24 - January 10, 2012
Ha, I saw that, too.
Suddenly having so many Cubs players on Twitter is turning out to be pretty interesting.
daver - January 10, 2012
Another
good signing by Theo. Not happy to see Paul go to y’all.
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 10, 2012
Theo
and Hoyer. Got yelled for that last time lol.
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 10, 2012
ARE WE BECOMING THE PIRATES?
santoswoodenlegs - January 10, 2012
MCCUTCHEN, TABATA, AND WALKER PLEASE
jesus christos - January 10, 2012
Please, no
Emelie - January 10, 2012
Ewwwwww
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 11, 2012
Hoyer on XM
Talking Maholm http://siriusxmsports.posterous.com/jed-hoyer-cubs-general-manager-joined-mlb-net-78627
Adam U - January 10, 2012
Fangraphs says the defense is a big factor for Maholm
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/paul-maholm-joins-cubs-a-study-in-blue-and-ivy/
Castro could have a big effect on how Maholm looks.
BVictor - January 10, 2012
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