Gregory Shamus - Getty Images
Kerry Wood of the Chicago Cubs tips his hat to fans during player introductions prior to playing the Pittsburgh Pirates on opening day at Wrigley Field in Chicago, Illinois. (Photo by Gregory Shamus/Getty Images)
Dear Theo and Jed,
Hi! How are you doing? Enjoying Chicago so far? We haven't had much of a winter here yet, so it's probably been easy and comfortable for you to get to work at the corner of Clark & Addison. I hear you two have been pretty busy working late nights, examining the organization from top to bottom; so far I like all the deals and signings you have made in re-making the Cubs major league roster and acquiring additional depth for the minor league system.
I'm excited about the future. You guys had success together in Boston and I know you know what you're doing and believe me, I understand your method. You can't just go for the quick fix as the Cubs have for the last decade; if the two of you and Jason McLeod and the others you have brought in can build a strong top-to-bottom organization, then the Cubs can become a team that can contend for the postseason every year, and win a couple of times in a decade like your old team in Boston did.
I get it. And I like the way you've begun the process. It's the right way to go.
I have only one question this morning. Why haven't you signed Kerry Wood yet?
Theo, in 1995 when Wood was drafted, you were just graduating from Yale. In 1998, when when Wood struck out 20 in his fifth major league start in what is arguably the most dominant pitching performance in major league history, you were just starting out in baseball with the Padres. Jed, you were still working at your alma mater, Wesleyan University.
Sure, you know all about that. But you didn't feel the energy it brought to the '98 team after a horrific 1997; you weren't there when Wood gutted out five shutout innings on what turned out to be an arm that needed Tommy John surgery in Game 3 of the 1998 NLDS, leaving trailing 1-0 in a game, and series, the Cubs eventually lost.
You weren't there when Wood made his triumphant return on May 2, 2000, throwing six strong innings against the Astros and hitting a home run in his first at-bat.
You weren't there when he nearly threw a no-hitter on May 25, 2001 against the Brewers, allowing a leadoff single to Mark Loretta in the seventh and striking out 14.
You and Jed were in Boston, leading your team to the postseason in your first year there, when Kerry won his last four starts in 2003, posting a 0.93 ERA, helping lead the Cubs to an unlikely NL Central championship, and you were watching your Red Sox make the ALCS when Kerry won two games against the Braves in the NLDS that year, including Game 5, which clinched the first postseason series for a Cubs team in 95 years.
And you weren't there when Kerry cried at his locker after failing to win Game 7 of the NLCS against the Marlins, even though he hit a home run in that game too, patiently answering every reporter's questions, and taking full responsibility for the loss, something players rarely do in the 21st Century.
Yes, I know about all the injuries, Theo & Jed; they kept Wood out of baseball for most of 2005 and 2006. But we also know that Kerry came back -- after almost retiring -- in 2007, and was a key part of the 2008 NL Central championship team, posting a save total (34) that coincidentally matched the uniform number that's sold a ton of replica jerseys over the years.
All of these are the reasons I love Kerry Wood. I don't have a lot of favorite players, but Kerry Wood is near the top of the list. Having met the man on a couple of occasions, I also know he's an outstanding human being who would be a credit to any baseball organization. This is what he means to Cubs fans and what he represents to the history of the organization, and also as a transition to the future that you are building.
Yes, I know he's almost 35. Yes, I know he has occasional blister problems that can keep him out of action for a couple of weeks at a time. But he can also still flash the dominant fastball he had at age 20; he's an excellent clubhouse leader, and he can help mentor some of the younger pitchers who will make up the 2012 bullpen. With your trades of Sean Marshall and Andrew Cashner -- both of which were very good trades, don't get me wrong -- the bullpen needs at least one man with experience.
Kerry Wood is that man. Further, with all the new players coming in, Kerry is the face of the franchise.
So what's the holdup? $1 million or so? Seriously, if Wood wants $4 million or $5 million, what does that come to? About 3 or 4% of the payroll? It's a relatively small amount of money that isn't going to damage the longterm future of this team and might get some casual fans feeling good about having a player they genuinely love on the roster.
If you're going to charge marquee prices, you have to have at least one guy who will light up the marquee. Yes, I know Kerry Wood is a middle relief guy or setup man, and he's not going to pitch in every game, and people aren't going to buy tickets based on maybe being able to see Kerry Wood pitch.
But if you blithely toss away a pitcher and man who has meant so much to this franchise and Cubs fans over the last 14 years, thinking you don't "need" him, some of those people might say, "Well, I'm not buying tickets this year."
Kerry Wood has value to the Cubs in many different ways. He's committed to the city and has made it his permanent home. Theo & Jed, can't you squeeze a little extra money out of your budget and get him signed before Friday's opening of the Cubs Convention? Having Wood introduced at the opening ceremony would create some enthusiasm and buzz that you guys very much need. (And incidentally, no matter what you two have been told about the convention, you won't really get it until you're there. Not a single newcomer to the team has ever really understood it until they see it.)
You might not think you need Kerry Wood. But for all the reasons above, yes, you do need him. It's worth a few extra dollars, Theo & Jed. Get it done this week.
Sincerely,
Al
7 recs | 899 comments
Meh
I’d rather have a power hitting 1b.
ferris2001 - January 11, 2012
We've got 2 of those!
SouthWabashSoul - January 11, 2012
For $4-5MM per annum?
Not likely.
ForTheLoveOfBiitner - January 11, 2012
I'm all for winning
And moving on, developing, turning over a new leaf, etc.
But Kerry Wood is different.
Brett Taylor - January 11, 2012
Exactly.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
class
that’s all you need to say about Wood
Rainman9856 - January 11, 2012
agreed
N Oakley - January 11, 2012
Exactly
He’s my all-time favorite Cub (That I’ve been alive to watch physically play the game, RIP Ronnie). At only 24, my true attention to baseball detail, players, growing fond over some, literally started with Kerry 13 years ago. Over half my life I’ve worn my collection of Wood jerseys, my favorite piece (although not the most expensive) of memoribilia I own? My Kerry Wood autographed ball, proudly on display on my desk. After ‘08 I was in shock and disbelief when Jim Hendry wouldn’t offer arbitration and let him walk on. So the following summer when he signed with the Indians and went home to cleveland on break from uni, first thing i did was buy a wood jersey. I honestly don’t think i could stand to see it again if he left.
unretrofied93 - January 11, 2012
An emphatic AMEN!!
cubfever7 - January 11, 2012
Exactly.
There are few things left for us. I’m sure we will develop a loyalty to some new Cub and I hope there are many. For now, let us have our Kerry Wood. Kerry is different to us, we don’t want to say goodbye to our heroes quite yet. Give us one last chance to do that.
mrcubsfan - January 11, 2012
Precisely.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
I really agree with Ace.....Wooodie is part of the heart valve of the Cubs and has overcome adversity and returned to be very useful most of the time
LA CUB Cra - January 11, 2012
Dear Al
Thanks for your comments. We’re already at 40 on the 40 Man Roster. We already have 1 contract ‘pending’. It’s between us and Philly for Kerry with Madson signing soon with Cinci. I think we’ll get him signed, I just have to unload two current 40 Man players, or fleece Detroit on Garza.
Give me until the weekend.
Thanks.
The, Jed, Jason, and the rest of us busting our humps covering for years of systemic neglect.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
*Theo
timh815 - January 11, 2012
You forgot
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
We aren't over it,
as Maholm is ‘pending’.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
Right, but we don't want to make Jessica's blood pressure any higher than it already is.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Welcome Theo you are doing great, but please get rid of Sori ASAP
LA CUB Cra - January 11, 2012
Amen
eths - January 11, 2012
Don't be sentimental. Sentiment doesn't win championships.
Unfortunately, neither will the 2012 Cubs. But, TheoJed are not in the sentiment business. They are in the winning at baseball business. If they value Kerry as someone who can lead and mentor their young players, then that should be the reason for bringing him back. Not, because it’s popular with the fans.
SackMan - January 11, 2012
I love Kerry
and hope the Cubs re-sign him. That said, the comments that I’ve read acknowledging how much Kerry means to the fan-base indicate to me that perhaps Theo and Jed think less of his ability to get hitters out than many on this board do.
They’re in charge and I’m comfortable with their decision, either way.
leothelip - January 11, 2012
Nice write up.
It’s from the heart.
For me it depends what Wood is asking for. If like you say it’s 4 or 5 million for one year, then I am in total agreement with you.
katie casey - January 11, 2012
"If you're going to charge marquee prices, you have to have at least one guy who will light up the marquee."
bluemagic9 - January 11, 2012
Now explain how a middle reliever is that guy.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Sadly
Chicago sports fans may base their decisions on whether a 30something KWood will pitch the 8th.
I should recuse myself, as Wrigley isn’t on my 2012 docket, though.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
Sometimes NBF is right I guess.
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
He did say a stopped clock is right 2X/day
Shanghai Badger - January 11, 2012
For those worried about roster spots on the 40.....I can think of several who could be removed for Wood.....
This is not the reason to not resign him….
TJ11 - January 11, 2012
It is not the reason to sign him
but it is a perfectly valid reason to not sign him RIGHT NOW. I really think potential trades of (insert name on contract here) is a trifle more pressing thansigning Kerry today/
Unless you are omniscient enough to know whether Marcos Mateo will be better than Lendry Castillo in the spring.
Long process/ Many steps.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
I know enough to know Mateo can be released today.....
And jacking around with Wood is stupid.
TJ11 - January 11, 2012
Mateo would put us back to 40
with the Maholm signing. I’m not trying to be a pr**k, I’m just walking us through the long view. If Kerry will sign for $3.5 with us today, I’d release Mateo for him.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
TNWHS
daver - January 11, 2012
Kerry Wood deserves better than the 2012 Cubs
I love Woody also, and thats why I’d rather him finish his career on a contender rather than a last place team. He has had a tremendous career with numerous highlights but if he stays with the Cubs then he’ll only end his career on a lownote.
Chicago Cubs fans will always love him which is why we have to accept that this is a baseball player that deserves better.
CrankyShoulder - January 11, 2012
We still got Wood.
Well written, Al.
Kerry is the heart and sole of the Cubs, and he deserves the price he is asking. Just pay him and return some of the love that he has given the Cubs over the years.
ZeoBandit - January 11, 2012
Soul.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Brain fart
ZeoBandit - January 11, 2012
Sole.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Sole of Cubs.
katie casey - January 11, 2012
Perfect.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
He needs to be signed.
In what can be a cold, calculated business have a touch of compassion and sign the guy. Besides, he can still pitch.
Grockcubs - January 11, 2012
You hit the nail on the head.
He can, in fact, actually still pitch. It’s not a charity case. He’ll likely earn the money on the field, and all the other ambassador-type stuff (which has real value) will be gravy.
ForTheLoveOfBiitner - January 11, 2012
...
LOUD SUSTAINED APPLAUSE
Endrick - January 11, 2012
If he wants to stay here, Kerry may owe the Cubs another hometown discount...
After all, the team has paid him $50,325,000 for an 80-66 won-loss record, 35 saves, a few holds, constant mid-season breakdowns with attendant disruptions, and memorable failure in the one game of the last 28 years that really mattered.
His career has mostly been about great and largely unfulfilled promise, strikeouts, and the bittersweet memories of 1998, 2003, 2004, and 2008. We know he’s a good guy who wants to stay, but unlike the Cubs fans who feel he’s being treated unfairly by TheoJed, Wood likely knows he has received enormous patience from fans and management alike, while actually being overcompensated for his time with the Cubs.
ernaga - January 11, 2012
Oh really?
Yes, I remember Wood making all the defensive misplays that cost us the game.
That loss was a team effort.
MN exile - January 11, 2012
While millions of fans and most national media expected the Cubs to collapse in Game 7,
many others expected to see a Beckett-style, lights-out performance from Wood. IMHO, a dominating performance from Kerry was the most likely result. When it didn’t happen, he accepted full blame for the result, which makes him the stand-up guy we admire and want to keep in Chicago.
If he accepts Theo’s offer, lowball or otherwise, great: if he moves to a contender to show the same unusual consistency he had with the Yankees, also great. One way or the other, I hope to see him pitch in a World Series.
ernaga - January 11, 2012
This is just silly
So, game 6 didn’t matter? Games 1-3 of 2007, 2008?
And you’d call game 7 a defining moment of his career? How about taking the team on his back along with Prior for the last 6 weeks of 2003? If there were Division Series MVP’s, he may very well have gotten the award in 2003.
I’m not saying these are reasons to keep him, but to define his career or even suggest that it’s a standout moment by failure is a failure on your part.
Shanghai Badger - January 11, 2012
To be fair, I think you're reading into that much more than he intended.
Game 6 definitely mattered, but game 7 was also felt like a script from a movie. It was one of those games before where you can literally say, “if you win this game, you and this day will go down in Cubs history as the greatest game in modern Cubs history.” He didn’t dominate that game like he was fully capable of. I don’t think that game defined his entire career, but it had the potential to in an unbelievable way.
The last 6 weeks of the season is important, and without it we didn’t get to where we were… but the stakes get higher each round, and there isn’t much bigger than a game 7 in the NLCS after a crushing defeat in game 6.
bdlugz - January 11, 2012
I don't disagree that it was huge
But the implication was that Wood was the reason the team lost
Shanghai Badger - January 11, 2012
I just didn't take it that way at all.
bdlugz - January 11, 2012
Exactly.
ernaga - January 11, 2012
Well said
these are pretty much my thoughts exactly.
cubman987 - January 11, 2012
Kerry should start playing upright bass,
that’ll help build those calluses up and prevent blisters.
WindisBlowingOut! - January 11, 2012
Except...
When playing bass, you really build up the callouses on your off-hand, not your throwing hand.
EcoGeek - January 11, 2012
But...
I’m all for Kerry playing bass anyway.
EcoGeek - January 11, 2012
you build calluses on both hands
primarily index and middle finger on the right hand, and digits 2-5 on the left.
WindisBlowingOut! - January 11, 2012
Can he play third bass? We need a good third bass man.
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
Bass.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
do we have a carp
if he signs with Philly?
timh815 - January 11, 2012
It couldn't be any worse than a
Koyie fish. Pow! Zing!
WindisBlowingOut! - January 11, 2012
If you use a pick
if yu play without one, you get callouses on both hands.
BigJohnAZ - January 11, 2012
What purpose does he serve on this team?
We are obviously slashing payroll and trying to go young. Why do we need to pay an injured 35 year old middle reliever 5 million plus?
aaronb - January 11, 2012
You ask "what purpose does he serve"
Here are two:
Both of those things have value to any team.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
not that i am completely opposed to Kerry's return but,
point one…for a while, until he goes on the DL again.
point two…why not hire him as a coach and we know that leader and mentor will be around and not rehabbing in triple A for a minute while he comes off of the DL.
i want Kerry on the team, i just dont know that the Cubs “owe” him or “honor” him with resigning him just because he asked.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
I agree with you
The Cubs do not owe him anything. He has been one of my favorite players growing up.
lshaffer_69 - January 11, 2012
Dempster (10-14, $14M 2012) should be doing that.
Dan Serafini - January 11, 2012
Where are you getting $5 million plus?
elgato - January 11, 2012
He gave us a big hometown discount last year
From the reports at MLB trade rumors he wants market value this year.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
And how do you know $5 million is market value?
elgato - January 11, 2012
Because that's what he was offered last offseason
He had a better year in 2011 than in 2010. It’s pretty safe to assume he’d be offered close to $5 million.
bdlugz - January 11, 2012
It is
what it is. I like many admire Wood (oops that did not come out right). But he would not be the first or last home town hero to leave. Although I do believe there is a spot in the pen for him.
wild bill - January 11, 2012
Bring him back
He took a paycut last year to stay with the team. He can’t be any worse than some of the no names in the back of our bullpen now.
JG1133 - January 11, 2012
Agreed
TJ11 - January 11, 2012
A Lot
of the Cubs appeal has to do with tradition, and I’m sure that Theo and Jed know that as well as they seem to know everything else baseball. Kerry Wood represents that side of the game. I think they get that too.
Not everything is a thinkpiece. Re-signing Wood should be a no-brainer. It’s doubtful that he’s asking for anything the Cubs can’t afford for the level of service he can provide.
chiazdog - January 11, 2012
Al, I appreciate what you wrote...
Well done for making the (mostly) emotional case.
If I might share a thought with you though, this open letter is really misplaced. That front office is doing exactly what they were hired to do. I’ve no problem with them. However, this is one of those rare cases where (assuming that there is true interest in bringing Kerry back) that the owner needs to step in, and bless that extra money. Call it a marketing expense. Call it a payroll exception. Call it an advance against his future role with the club. Whatever. If you’re going to proclaim that you want to keep a guy associated with a club long after he retires, then you need to be willing to take care of him during his playing days, as well.
I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but I have to ask yet again, who the hell is handling the marketing with this team? First you alienate Ryne Sandberg, and now potentially Kerry Wood. In consecutive years? Days before the Cubs Convention, where you’re pitching a team that could easily lose 90 games next season? Fix this.
Damen Jackson - January 11, 2012
Your point is valid.
There seems to be a real disconnect between the baseball people and the marketing people. That’s a real problem. This is exactly correct:
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Let's hope the owner doesn't inject sentimentality into routine negotiations conducted by his new management team...
Without owner interference on deals proposed during the Durocher and Dallas Green eras, we wouldn’t have to spend so much time today griping about things that might have been.
ernaga - January 11, 2012
Well,
Let me just re-state that I’m only for this if there is genuine interest in the Cubs retaining Kerry’s services, and this mini-firestorm really just boils down to payroll and budgetary issues. I would personally never propose that ownership get into who should be on the field, and when.
Damen Jackson - January 11, 2012
Well said
I view this as a cost of doing business deal and it is one of those things you must do. If a deal where Kerry Wood makes 2-2.5 M this year and something similar next year puts a strain on this organization then this thing is in far worse shape than any of us have thought.
Cubsfan Waveland - January 11, 2012
Do we have a link
that 2.5 gets it done?
timh815 - January 11, 2012
No
He made 1.5 M last year. I’m assuming that would be a deal that gets it done or 2 years 5.5 M total, 3m this year and 2.5m next year. I read where Philly was willing to give about 4M for one year.
Cubsfan Waveland - January 11, 2012
I watched MONEYBALL last night for the first time....
you are Grady Fuson.
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
Not familar with the movie, actually..
But thanks. I think.
Damen Jackson - January 11, 2012
Good stuff, Damen, as always.
dtpollitt - January 11, 2012
That's a really great point
Juiceboxjerry - January 11, 2012
Kerry Wood is my favorite "active" Cub. But..
I’m torn. I think nostalgia, sentimentality and curses (but not tradition) are all something that we as an organization and fan base need to cleanse ourselves of and separate those emotions from winning baseball games. Part of me wants to start an online fund to supplement his salary to Theo can justify signing the guy close to market. Part of me wants to see Kerry take another shot at a WS ring that has eluded him. Part of me just can’t wait to give the guy a standing ovation during his first appearance this year at Wrigley in cubbie pinstripes whether I’m getting off my couch or out of my seat at Wrigley. I could go on…
The reality is, since 2005, Kerry’s averaged only slightly above a .6 WAR which equates to roughly a $3M annual value if you want to put on your GM cap. Yes, Kerry left money on the table last year, but also said it’s because he failed to live up to his original large contact with the Cubs. If he meant that, I don’t think we should make up for that in 2012 – a year in which we’re rebuilding.
wrigley's ivy - January 11, 2012
If Theo makes a
40 man reducing trade by Thursday, all will be accounted for.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
I'd rather the 40 man spot go to someone with a future
Why not claim a Fernando Martinez and use that 40 man spot for someone who MIGHT develop into something down the line?
A 35 year old Middle reliever on a 110 loss team is new carpet in a house with a hole in the roof.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Come on 110 loss team.
This team may not win 90, but remember this division is not the toughest in the league. So you see 52-110? Goodness.
Grockcubs - January 11, 2012
We have the worst offense and a bottom 3 NL pitching staff
I’d be a miracle if we lose less than 100 this coming year.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
It pains me to say...
But while I think 110 losses is really an extreme worst case, I see the Cubs losing a lot of games next season. Little power, no great speed. sub-par defensively, and so-so pitching. I see 85-90 losses as almost a given. There’s just nothing that this team does well.
Damen Jackson - January 11, 2012
If we keep Garza we are not a bottom 3 pitching staff...
The offense is a major issue, however. I think we’re looking at, as constructed, a 68 win team.
bdlugz - January 11, 2012
If the new guys can hit with RISP
then it’s not a major issue, since we’ve tried the old ‘three run bomb or strikeout three times with a runner on third and nobody out’ offense and it’s worn out it’s welcome. The park isn’t the premier hitter’s park it used to be, and our lineup will reflect that.
NobodySpecial - January 11, 2012
EXACTLY.
drewishdrewid - January 11, 2012
Now, why am I thinking about White Castle?
N Oakley - January 11, 2012
'ere
drewishdrewid - January 11, 2012
Sentiments like this are nice, but remind us of why Jim Hendry had to go.
Don’t forget these are the guys that traded Nomar. I’m happy that we have leadership stepping away from the loveable losers and actually focused on building an organization that can win a championship.
DaveinHouston - January 11, 2012
Trading Nomar is like trading Garza.
It was a move that brought pieces in (and moved out significant salary) that might have positively impacted the future of that franchise.
Signing Wood maybe costs you more than another fungible middle reliever off the open market, but at $2.5-5MM per year for a couple years, it’s not a crippling sum, nor is it blocking a top tier middle relief prospect (if such a thing even existed).
ForTheLoveOfBiitner - January 11, 2012
Al, excellent letter. I am in 100% agreement.
What’s the chance you could actually send this letter on to your sources at the cubs?
mdcubsfan - January 11, 2012
It's being read.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
Do cubs front office people read bleedcubbieblue?
mdcubsfan - January 11, 2012
I think someone is 'checking the pulse'
And someone probably deposited a copy on Theo’s desk in the last 75 minutes or so.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
I'll bet that is true.
I know quite a number of people in the organization read not only what I write here, but fanposts and comments. I’m sure it’s becoming known at 1060 W. Addison.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Fantastic!
I hope they actually take it to heart.
mdcubsfan - January 11, 2012
I really hope they're not taking their cues from this site.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
No,
but the well-put stuff is probably noted.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
Do I expect them to?
No. But I hope they’d at least consider what I wrote.
It’s not all sentiment. There are valid baseball reasons to sign a pitcher who has Wood’s qualifications.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Again Al, you never answered my question yesterday
What of Kerry’s skills as a thrower could he impart to a young pitching staff. Wood never became a student of pitching, he improved his walk totals but remains to this day a thrower rather than a thrower that grew into a pitcher as a result being a student of the game.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
Teach them a cutter!
bdlugz - January 11, 2012
It's not necessarily specific skills
… it’s his experience, how to be a big leaguer, how to approach hitters, etc.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Okay....so he could teach pitchers how to hit a left handed batter..
..in the ankle with a breaking ball.
Look, I’m a fan of his but I’ve more than willing to move on and you continue to use space on your website to solicit his signing.
That’s your prerogative, it’s your website. I just don’t have any qualms with watching the Cubs without any consolation prizes.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
Your position isn't unreasonable.
You don’t think Wood would be useful to the 2012 Cubs. I do. Agree to disagree.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
In that case
one of the seats in section 529 row 1 is kind of crooked. I’m sure a wrench would tighten that baby up.
Fukudometer - January 11, 2012
I'm conflicted...
While I don’t want to suggest that Theo & Jed should do anything other than what will make this team the best it can be in the long run, I do think there is a worthwhile exception for Wood. And really, when we’re talking about a difference of $2-3 million, on a payroll that looks to be substantially smaller than the previous year’s, I have to think that there’s funds to make it happen. We’re not talking about a Hendry-esque 5 years, NTC overpayment here. We’re talking about a couple mil, tops, a small price to keep the fans happy.
EcoGeek - January 11, 2012
but where does it stop?
next year do we sign dempster to a couple million dollars because he’s been around awhile and fans seem to like him and he’s kinda useful?
epsilon - January 11, 2012
also i would think the nostalgia factor should be at a minimum for Kerry
because he’s already left once.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
Demp's gotta be worth
At least a couple million next year, just for performance on the field.
But you make a worthwhile point. To answer it, I’d suggest that while Kerry probably won’t be worth $5 mil for his on-the-field performance, the other intangibles he brings along with it (leadership, ticket sales, etc) should cover most of the difference. And even if not, we’re talking about a pretty special player to the organization, one who has given all he could. There’s not much of a point in damaging that relationship for such a (comparably) small sum of money.
EcoGeek - January 11, 2012
Dempster
isn’t Kerry. Kerry is up there with Sosa, Santo, Banks, etc.
drewishdrewid - January 11, 2012
Nah, he's not up there with Banks
But he’s a higher profile Cub than Dempster.
Shanghai Badger - January 11, 2012
Great job, Al!!!
It is baffling to me why he has not yet been signed.
cubfanwill - January 11, 2012
It takes two to tango, and let's not forget they did offer him a contract...
This isn’t just about Theo and Jed, not when there’s clearly been an offer that Jed at least describes as a significant raise above the $1.5 m Kerry made last year. While terms haven’t been announced, I suspect that the holdup here is that Wood took less money as a favor to Hendry and the Cubs last year, on the expectation that Hendry would return the favor the following year when he had more flexibility. Now that Hendry is gone, Kerry is asking Ricketts/Theo & Jed to do the same. I’d be surprised if Theo and Jed are offering him anything but what they perceive to be fair market price for a 34 year old reliever who had a so-so year in 2011.
So what is this letter really saying? Not that they should sign Wood – they’ve made an offer that he could accept and be a part of the 2012 Cubs if he wanted. It’s that they should sign Wood on terms that are closer to what he’s asking than what they’re offering. That’s a fine issue to take sides on given Kerry’s importance to the franchise, but not nearly as dramatic as the letter indicates.
In some ways, it reminds me of the Olin Kreutz negotiations over the summer, only less contentious or public. The only thing that kept Olin from being a Bear this year was his pride, and he wound up taking less money to play in a city he didn’t want to be in, leading to his abrupt retirement six games in. (That team, the Saints, appears to have done just fine without him). I hope that Kerry keeps an eye on what’s really important, and doesn’t draw arbitrary lines in the sand like Olin did. There are a lot worse things than making $3 million per year to pitch out of the bullpen for a team and city that revere you.
Orval Overall - January 11, 2012
If they are offering him a contract
then it stands to reason they feel he has a place on the team. If they think he has a place on the team, then I don’t think (in this one isolated circumstance) they should feel like they need to “win” the negotiation, or have a black and white number they won’t go over.
If I had to guess, they are offering him 2.5-3 mil, and he is asking for 4. I don’t think they should let that amount of money get in the way of bringing back a guy that they want, and that is really, really important to a significant portion of the fan base.
tomas21 - January 11, 2012
I'll put it this way.
If the numbers are close, I hope we sign Kerry. If they aren’t let Philly have him.
As nice as it would be to have him locked up by the weekend, I don’t want TheoJed to put down the phone from the 6 or so trades they are working on to get Kerry signed by Friday.
My answer. Sticking to it.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
Well you proved my point Al
you simply want Kerry back to as a living piece of memorabilia.
We’re moving at light speed into a new era and your still stuck living in the past.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
I disagree with Al
to an extent, but I think you’re being too harsh. KWood would serve a purpose and help the team. He would (oddly) pay for his own salary with meatball fans who only attend because he’s on the team.
I trust Theo until given a reason not to do so.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
Are you suggesting that Kerry Wood pitching maybe 2 innings per week would...
…bring in 100,000 fans through the turnstiles over the course of a year? 100,000 fans is what it would take to pay for his salary of at least $5,000,000. You are overestimating the star power of a middle reliever.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
Where are you getting $5 million?
elgato - January 11, 2012
He will get 4-5 per with another organization
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
Based on ... ?
Kaplan said the other day that Kerry wanted one year, $4 million from the Cubs.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Kaplan says a lot of crap that turns out to never be true.
bdlugz - January 11, 2012
(rolls eyes)
As opposed to what you’re basing your stance on … which is nothing?
elgato - January 11, 2012
You didn't really read what I wrote, did you?
I’m not suggesting signing him for nostalgia. The popularity is a bonus.
There are valid baseball reasons for having a pitcher of Wood’s qualifications on the team.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
"You didn't feel the energy" "you weren' there when he cried"
Are you kidding?
You are living in a time gone by, and this is exactly the opposite of what Theo said when he came here. We are now seeing an organization think about projections, not what a player has done but what he can do.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
He can probably get
around 1 WAR (for argument’s sake). Which makes him worth 5 mil. Which means, he becomes a Theo bargain at 3.5.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
Problem is...
…he hasn’t been worth 1 fWAR in the preceding three seasons. And, FWIW, Bill James projects him to pitch around the same number of innings with slightly worse numbers. So if Theo & Jed’s projection system is coming up with similiar results, they may simply not want to go that high.
daver - January 11, 2012
Well said Daver.. Rec...
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
Yep
Easy Ed - January 11, 2012
You're being an absolutist.
TheoJed can look toward the future and give Kerry an extra $1 million. They’re not mutually exclusive.
As I indicated below, this is a matter of degrees. Around $4 million for Kerry wouldn’t wreck the long-term plans of the team — particularly when Hoyer said Kerry’s been offered a “significant raise” from the $1.5 million he received last year.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Theo kept paying Tek long after it made sense on the field. For instance.
D98 - January 11, 2012
2/3 of what you wrote was nostalgia.
The rest of it felt like a post hoc rationalization.
Arbusto - January 11, 2012
Do I have to state the obvious?
Nostalgia is a big part of sports. As long as nostalgia isn’t the main reason to bring Wood back — and if the money isn’t crazy — who cares if nostalgia factors in?
Put another way, if a player was a really asshat (like a Milton Bradley) wouldn’t THAT factor into the reasons NOT to sign a player?
elgato - January 11, 2012
Nostalgia is a big part of sports for fans.
It doesn’t usually make for sound business decisions.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
Again, this is a matter of degree.
If TheoJed offered Kerry $3 million, and they need to go to $4 million to get this deal done, is that an unsound business decision that would at all hamper the future success of the team?
elgato - January 11, 2012
Possibly yes
We don’t know what their plans for that other million are.
Just because 3 and 4 are very close numerically, when you throw “million” on the end, it’s a much bigger difference. So what if it’s a small part of the budget. It still could have other uses.
Arbusto - January 11, 2012
I'm sorry, but we're going to have to agree to disagree.
I can’t see how $1 million going to Wood instead of something else would hurt anything.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Alienating your customer base isn't sound business, either.
I doubt people who wouldn’t normally attend decide to come out because Wood is on the team, but people who would normally attend who instead are annoyed with a crappy team full of players they don’t know might decide to sit it out this year.
And those people eat and drink. A LOT. Gluttonous lushes. Who buy overpriced apparel and souvenirs.
ForTheLoveOfBiitner - January 11, 2012
Would you or anyone else here feel "alienated" because the...
…Cubs and Kerry Wood failed to reach a contractual agreement?
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
I'd be pretty damn upset.
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
figures
santoswoodenlegs - January 12, 2012
yes
we have different ways of rooting for our team. You’re the one who has a problem with that, not me.
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
...
santoswoodenlegs - January 12, 2012
lmfao
Easy Ed - January 12, 2012
whatever, dude.
prance away.
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
enough to stop going to the games?
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
enough to keep me from
going. With a baby and a kid who wants to go to music camp, I just might skip going to Wrigley again this year.
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
Wait, so you're not going to go because Kerry won't be there?
Or because of other time and financial obligations?
I’m honestly trying to figure this out.
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
I think he's saying ...
that without Wood, the other obligations would definitely win out.
I don’t often agree with Drew, but I’m with him on this one. If Kerry’s a Cub, I’m more likely to go to more games.
elgato - January 12, 2012
I get what you're saying...
but I’m trying to imagine going to a baseball game because of a player in the bullpen…I just…can’t.
To each, their own.
santoswoodenlegs - January 12, 2012
I'm starting to assume
That folks would go to more games if Wood was there because they’d be too upset with management if he wasn’t. Not so much a “Ooh, Wood might pitch an inning!” but moreso “Cubs game? Pfft, they’re cheapskates who don’t respect franchise faces like Wood. No thanks”
shoemile - January 12, 2012
Then NBF is even more right about Cubs fans than I would care to admit.
santoswoodenlegs - January 12, 2012
I don't think there are that many people who ...
wouldn’t go as some sort of protest. I know I wouldn’t.
elgato - January 12, 2012
Personally, whether or not Wood is on the team isn't going to affect my decision to attend games.
Some people are worried about what that signifies going forward, especially with a slashed payroll. I don’t agree with them, but I think we’ve all seen things that have turned us off spending money on this franchise. As excited as I am about the future of this team, the present isn’t inspiring me to charge to Wrigley and begin snatching up tickets.
shoemile - January 12, 2012
See, I agree with your last sentence.
So, Wood is a reason I’d go to games in an otherwise down year.
Now, the fact that some fans feel this way is not enough on its own to re-sign Kerry. I’m not saying that.
elgato - January 12, 2012
That's not the case with me, for the record.
I’d simply be excited at the prospect of seeing Kerry throw. Period.
elgato - January 12, 2012
Were you less likely to go to a game last year when he was on the DL?
shoemile - January 12, 2012
Yeah.
But I live in Chicago, so it’s not like it’s hard to get to Wrigley.
Now, if the Cubs were a good team, I’d go regardless of Kerry.
elgato - January 12, 2012
Fair enough.
shoemile - January 12, 2012
Again ...
this kind of thing shouldn’t be why Kerry is re-signed. I see it as an added bonus.
elgato - January 12, 2012
Well I agree with that.
I was just trying to understand your stance. To me, seeing a set up guy possibly pitch one inning doesn’t factor into my decision to buy a ticket. Then again, I don’t get why my brother like to listen to death metal. To each his own.
shoemile - January 12, 2012
Oh, yeah.
For the record, it was much cooler when Kerry was the closer. Not that I’m advocating a change in roles.
elgato - January 12, 2012
if only
you believed that.
santoswoodenlegs - January 12, 2012
haha
elgato - January 12, 2012
Is this the part where elgato tells me I'm pretty?
shoemile - January 12, 2012
if only
you believed that
elgato - January 12, 2012
Man, this is bogus.
shoemile - January 12, 2012
Man, that's an awful lot of money for 12-15 pitches
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
It's not the only reason I go, though.
elgato - January 12, 2012
if only
you believed that.
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
wow...
santoswoodenlegs - January 12, 2012
Girls, girls.
You’re BOTH pretty.
elgato - January 12, 2012
heh
ballhawk - January 12, 2012
Hey hawk ...
It’s scary, but the timing of everything sure lends credence to your theory this was dragged out to make the convention more exciting.
elgato - January 12, 2012
wouldn't surprise me - theo's a pretty smart dude.
it’s great to have a plan, and even greater to know how to execute it, and kudos all around when you’re disciplined enough to stick to it.
But it doesn’t take a marketing genius to see what kind of goodwill/buzz can be generated at a fan convention for just a couple million dollars of someone else’s money.
I’m sure his inner Theo is probably saying “but, but, but we could be using that $2M somewhere else”, but overall, as long as Wood would not be blocking a credible young pitcher’s development, I’m sure this is easily justifiable.
ballhawk - January 12, 2012
Well, if that's what's happening
Then I guess the FO and the marketing guys are getting on the same page like Al wanted.
shoemile - January 12, 2012
I don't believe Drew is pretty.
santoswoodenlegs - January 12, 2012
if only
you believed that.
elgato - January 12, 2012
Of all things to be upset about?
I mean, it takes two to make this deal happen. In the grand scheme of stupid crap this club does, not re-signing Wood wouldn’t even be a blip.
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
It would matter to me, yes.
Kerry Wood is one of my personal heroes, and I feel that he should be a Cub forever.
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
But....he already hasn't been
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
We don't speak of that time.
santoswoodenlegs - January 12, 2012
Why not?
Dude was making bank! Good for him!
shoemile - January 12, 2012
and that was
a bad decision by the Cubs, and one I was glad Hendry rectified. Now it’s up to Theo to make sure it stays rectified.
Kerry Wood is special. You don’t have to understand it. Neither does the Cubs front office. But they’re much less likely to get my money this year if they don’t.
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
See, I don't agree with THAT.
Kerry did not have a good 2009. Hendry was right not to give him $10 million that year (looking at the move in a vacuum).
Sadly, Hendry thought Kevin Gregg would be a good closer …
elgato - January 12, 2012
He should have offered arbitration.
Letting Kerry walk with no compensation whatsoever was the mistake. He was a Type A free agent.
Obviously, the mistake was compounded by signing Kevin Gregg.
But seriously, Kerry Wood as a Type A free agent.
(And his 2009 wasn’t great, but 7 of those 26 ER were allowed in 1 1/3 IP over 2 appearances. Obviously, you can’t discount actual results, but it is equally fair to say that in 56 of his 58 appearances in 2009 he was as good as he’s ever been.)
D98 - January 12, 2012
Kerry Wood is special
but not in the sense you think he is.
You’re even giving yourself an out here, talking about how likely they are to get your money or not. If you had the time and the money, I’d be willing to bet you would go. With your situation though, it’s certainly understandable if you don’t, but to pin part of a decision not to go on not re-signing Kerry is silly. You (not YOU) go to games to see the team, or extra special players (like Sosa), and I would also be willing to bet there are quotes that can be pulled from any one of us reflecting that. Why else would you keep going despite fan unfriendly rainout policies, signing MB, the irresponsible handing out of horrible contracts, destroying the 2008 team, etc. Theo and company have come a long way in steering the organization in a different direction, and that has meant distancing the team from figures like Sandberg. It may also mean not bringing back Wood, but if they do, ultimately it would be for the good of the team, and not because they hold some grudge or want to disrespect the guy. From all accounts, they want to get something done, but really, Wood is a middle reliever in decline, regardless of who he once was, and you can only bend over backwards so much to bring back ONE player who.
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
you may think it's silly
To me, it’s not. And I liked MB, so you’re barking up the wrong tree with that one.
If the Cubs don’t re-sign Wood, I will be less inclined to go to games. Simple as that.
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
But you'll still go if given the chance
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
sure. It’s baseball, I love baseball. But it’ll be a tipping point for me.
drewishdrewid - January 13, 2012
For the love of god ...
don’t start on the why MB was good bandwagon.
elgato - January 12, 2012
And that's why I think that entire stance is horseshit
Drew, you may very well be the king of championing this team no matter what condition the team is in. You believe they’re in it until they’re mathematically eliminated, you liked Bradley, your signature has “Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe” in it, and above all else, you love this team. You’ve stuck by them for so long, argued with others on how to be a fan, etc., but no re-signing Wood, something that wouldn’t even be intentional if that’s how things end up, is going to make you stand in protest?
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
Is it a protest, as much as just not going to Wrigley as much?
elgato - January 12, 2012
It's a protest in the sense that
you’re not going to a game because Wood wasn’t re-signed, although I would argue that family, money, and time would be an actual reason why one couldn’t go.
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
I think the fact that he's announced that's why he's not going
makes it a protest
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
I wouldn't be outraged if Kerry doesn't re-sign.
But it would sadden me, and it would affect my attendance, at least, a little.
elgato - January 12, 2012
Not really.
It’s happened before. I’d be a bit disappointed.
daver - January 12, 2012
Frankly,
if it comes down to what I might feel is a minor money issue, yes.
Damen Jackson - January 12, 2012
And you think Kerry Wood fixes that?
This is where the argument just falls off the rails.
People are angry there’s a crappy product on the field, they are welcome to that opinon, I don’t think Kerry Wood magically fixes that. If people are angry about a crappy team, I don’t think getting an 8th inning guy makes them happy
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
I think it helps the medicine go down
I have a “special needs” dog. He’s special to me and he needs to take his meds. Put the meds in a bowl, he won’t touch them. Put a dollap of pumpkin paste on them, and he slurps everything down.
For some fans, Kerry Wood is that dollap of pumpkin paste.
ballhawk - January 12, 2012
* dollop...
ballhawk - January 12, 2012
Someone need this as their sig.
santoswoodenlegs - January 12, 2012
Done and done
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
This reminds me of that great line from "This is Spinal Tap":
“So you’re saying you feel like a preserved moose on stage?”
daver - January 12, 2012
Will the combined rage of Cubs fans if Kerry Wood isn't signed go to 11?
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
We shall all have to sing in D minor, the saddest of all keys.
daver - January 12, 2012
Can I raise a practical question at this point?
Are we gonna do “Stonehenge” tomorrow?
katie casey - January 12, 2012
...
Emelie - January 12, 2012
Ha, that's awesome.
daver - January 13, 2012
I'm not arguing that nostalgia can't be factor at all
But I think you summed it up well with this:
Al’s post reads like nostalgia is the main factor with just a little bit of rationalizing thrown in.
Arbusto - January 11, 2012
OK.
I was more talking generally.
elgato - January 11, 2012
I figured, I just wanted to clarify my point.
I like Kerry Wood. He is my favorite Cub. So I’d like him signed. And will be sad if he’s not. But I’ve resigned myself that business factors play against my love to see him in a cubs uniform.
Arbusto - January 11, 2012
And I'm fine with business playing a part.
As I’ve been saying, it’s a matter of degree. I’m willing to give Kerry a little bit more than I would if this were just any old setup guy.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Oh bullshit
At least admit your actual reasons. You wrote a goddamn open letter asking for him to be signed.
Nostalgia is THE reason you want him here. Otherwise you’d be writing an open letter asking for Prince Fielder, he’s a hell of a lot more valuable.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Can't agree more
In fact, I threw up in my mouth a little after reading the plea in the first place. I like Wood as much as the next guy, but I’d rather the Cubs win games. Wood isn’t going to help them do that at the level that we all want to see. Middle relievers as show pieces are pretty difficult to justify.
krummy12 - January 11, 2012
Wrong again.
Obviously, I know the total rebuild they are doing wouldn’t fit a Fielder signing now.
But a useful relief pitcher who’s good in the clubhouse and won’t cost too much? Why not?
Yes, I admit he’s my favorite current Cub. What’s wrong with that?
It is not THE reason. It is one of the reasons.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
So how come you didn't write the open letter when you were still claiming we weren't in a rebuild?
Oh that’s right, for some reason you don’t want to admit this is about nostalgia.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Could be about nostalgia
It can also be about posting a 3.35ERA across 50 innings, great leadership, and clubhouse presence. Sounds like a lot of positives with no negatives. Strengthens up our bullpen after removing 2 pieces of it, pleases fans. Granted if you don’t like Kerry coming back, i’m sure you’ll be the only one in Wrigley booing him when he walks up to the mound.
unretrofied93 - January 11, 2012
Oh Lord
I don’t mind Kerry coming back. I don’t see the point…but I won’t be ANGRY he’s back, unless he’s given multiple years or way more money than he’s worth.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Yawn
Acquiring an effective reliever when 2 were just traded is obviously pointless
Damn I wish I had that sarcasm sign Al put up a while back
unretrofied93 - January 11, 2012
Yawn
For this team? This year, there’s no reason to give a younger arm a chance. As I already said, I won’t be angry if kerry comes back. I just don’t think it’s something that NEEDS TO BE DONE!!!!!!!!
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
no reason NOT to give a younger arm a chance
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
My feelings exactly...it almost seems that this is what
people need to hang their hat on until this team is good again.
For me I don’t mind watching a rebuild because I know for the first time in my life, it’ll be done the right way.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
I'm agreing with nunya for the second time this week
The world is coming to an end.
I like Wood and I would like to see him stay. But it’s apparent, to a painful degree, that Theo and Jed are tearing down everything. I don’t see what role Wood plays on this team. Mentor? Well, the Cubs already have Dempster.
As nunya said, if you want to really put butts in the seats, sign Fielder instead.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 11, 2012
Two mentors are better than one?
daver - January 12, 2012
Eh, it's a baseball team,
not a finishing school.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 12, 2012
A lady reveals nothing.
katie casey - January 13, 2012
Al has written about wanting Fielder several times iirc.
South Side Expat - January 12, 2012
That was before the Rizzo deal.
Clearly, the Cubs are not going in that direction.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
Clearly. I didn't say that you still want him signed, just that you wrote about it at one point.
South Side Expat - January 12, 2012
It wasn't an open letter addressed to the front office
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
And the difference between an open letter and the other front page
posts about what Al thinks should happen in the off season are what, the title?
South Side Expat - January 12, 2012
*crickets*
This ain’t no 22 minutes, either.
South Side Expat - January 12, 2012
If he's begging 5
let him walk. If he’s asking $3.5, they could well make that from tickets, beer, dogs, and parking (and Cubs Covention stuff)
timh815 - January 11, 2012
So you're going to base this on a difference of $1.5 million?
The Cubs can make that back on ONE DAY of ticket sales for an average game.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
With that logic
give him ten million. It would take two games to recoup.
wild bill - January 11, 2012
Fuzzy math
sorry
wild bill - January 11, 2012
or,
they can invest the 1.5 M into seven or 8 foreign lottery ticket prospects. I’ll take option B
timh815 - January 11, 2012
But we can make that back in 1 day of good ticket sales.
So we should sign 7 or 8 lottery tickets after every sell out.
bdlugz - January 11, 2012
A few things...
1) You’re not only paying a player for the fans he brings in…you’re also paying for on-field performance. I’d say Kerry is worth at least $3 mil of that 5 in performance alone
2) You’re assuming average income of $50 per fan. With concessions and souvenirs added into ticket prices, that seems a bit low
3) You’re discounting the potential negative impact on attendance resulting from alienated fans who don’t like seeing their favorites “mistreated” by new management. It isn’t just the extra fans Kerry would bring in, it’s also those who would stay home if they don’t sign him.
It’s a low-risk, low-reward move.Throw the fanbase a bone.
EcoGeek - January 11, 2012
This is one exception.
And the one exception can pitch and fills a spot that this team needs. If he was one of 71 middle infielders this franchise has I can see the point. He can pitch on this team.
Grockcubs - January 11, 2012
Upon further review
I think this is a cost cutting move. If we kept K Wood, we have the other Wood. They would have to pop for putting their first intial on their jerseys.
wild bill - January 11, 2012
Man this movement is reminding me an awful lot of "Ryne Sandberg for Manager" hysteria
The desire to have Kerry Wood pitch the 8th inning FAR outweighs the actual benefits.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Sure does have that feelin'
I’d rather root for Kerry in October, to win a ring with another team.
SackMan - January 11, 2012
yeup.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
Oh, I don't think that's fair.
We know what Kerry can do on the mound. Sandberg as a big league manager was a total unknown. Also, I don’t think the hysteria is anywhere near what it was for Sandberg.
elgato - January 11, 2012
You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one El
Because I see quite a few similarities.
Whether or not we know what Kerry can do on the mound, the desire to see him return is COMPLETELY disproportional to what he actually offers to this team, this year. That’s certainly on par with the Sandberg hysteria.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Great thoughts, Al. I hope this reaches the organization.
When a team is going through a total revamp, for my money, I’d like to see one or two familiar faces stick around. Kerry Wood is one of those guys. Still productive, and provides positive energy in the clubhouse.
scottsdalecubs - January 11, 2012
I agree with this.
A lot of people against re-signing Kerry seem to be making a principled stand. We’re rebuilding, damnit, so it’s illogical to re-sign a 35-year-old setup guy — just like it was illogical to sign a $200 million first baseman — to play on a team on course for about 100 losses.
I understand why signing a $200 million first baseman to rot on a fifth-place team for two or three years makes little sense (though I was for the Fielder signing, I eased off when I realized how deep a rebuild TheoJed were pursuing). But depending on what the final dollars turn out to be, not re-signing Wood seems like unnecessarily drawing a line in the sand.
We’re not talking about eight years at $25 million per. We’re talking about the DIFFERENCE between what Kerry wants and what TheoJed offered — probably around $1 million (I’m basing this on Kaplan’s report).
Would a rebuilding team typically pay $4 million for a setup guy? Probably not. But the Cubs have the money, given that payroll is $30 million less than it was a year ago. They also have a shoddy bullpen and few fan favorites left (particularly if Garza is traded). Yes, you can debate whether fans will buy tickets to watch Kerry throw the eighth inning. Speaking personally, I know I would be more likely to buy a ticket if I thought Kerry might pitch.
The desire to re-sign Wood is partly due to sentiment. But as long as it’s not totally for sentiment — and if the money needed is small by baseball standards and if the pitcher is good and fills a need on the team — I say pull the trigger.
If Wood ends up signing with the Phillies for 2 years, $12 million, then I won’t be upset that TheoJed didn’t match the offer. But if he goes to the Phillies for 1 year, $4 million … you can count me as one very disappointed fan.
elgato - January 11, 2012
I agree, especially with your last paragraph.
katie casey - January 11, 2012
If he goes to the Phillies @ 1yr - $4 million
That’s on Wood for choosing a winner over nostalgia. I don’t put that on management
JG23 - January 11, 2012
Kerry probably figures the Cubs owe him one.
He already chose nostalgia over winning — he did it last year.
elgato - January 11, 2012
That's absurd...
how many months did that guy draw a paycheck off the Cubs when he was on the DL 15 times in 14 years? If anyone owes anyone it’s Wood owes the Cubs. C’mon, el, you gotta do better than that.
Easy Ed - January 11, 2012
Actually he owes the Cubs 2-3 years
He was a walking – crawling – limping – DL guy all during his $30M+ 3 year contract.
blackhawk24 - January 12, 2012
No he wasn't.
Wood made 22 starts and pitched effectively in 2004, the first year of that deal.
elgato - January 12, 2012
22 starts for a pitcher is the equivalent of a position player playing 101 games
That’s not such a good number…
bdlugz - January 12, 2012
I was objecting to ballhawk's characterization:
To me, that’s too far even for hyperbole. That was my point.
elgato - January 12, 2012
Oops ...
not ballhawk — blackhawk
elgato - January 12, 2012
don't worry about it, senor gato. Perfectly understandable...
ballhawk - January 12, 2012
if only
you believed that.
elgato - January 12, 2012
No one wants to believe that
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
Yes he was!
Did you even bother to look at his numbers for the other 2 years on that deal? Let me answer for you: No. Do that now, then get back to me.
Hint: 3 years, $32.5M. 36 starts, 225 IP…..and that’s the entire 3 years of the base contract…
blackhawk24 - January 18, 2012
You can't draw that conclusion
until/unless you know what the Cubs offer was.
If Theo/Jed offered $2.5M, then it is a bit hard to blame him for taking $4M… that’s economics, not “picking a winner over nostalgia”.
There isn’t a magical break even line… but if the Cubs offer $3.5M and he takes $4M from Philly, then I’d say you’ve drawn a fair conclusion.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Agree as well -- especially the last paragraph.
And I’d add that, if Ryan Madson can be bargained down to signing with the Reds for one year, Kerry Wood should do the same.
daver - January 11, 2012
Well said elgato.
sue369 - January 11, 2012
I'd be happy to have him but I understand not signing him as well.
I will say I’m glad to have non-Cubbie-sentimental people running the team because some of what I’ve read on this thread is not a good argument for paying someone $4 million to throw five innings a week.
the nth - January 11, 2012
I think you nailed it.
deadcatbounce - January 11, 2012
My feelings too...
Thanks for putting out there what I am sure many Cubs fans think.
Cub West - January 11, 2012 via Android app
If I have learned anything watching the new management team
they think with their heads not their hearts; their eyes are on the future and the bottom line. Sadly, I don’t see Woody as part of their thinking. I may be wrong, but my gut tells me business is business and Woody will not be a part of the 2012 Cubs.
Zeke - January 11, 2012
Business is business
If business (and the benjamins) are right, he’ll be back.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
+1
Remember that after the Red Sox won the World Series in 2004, Epstein allowed Pedro Martinez and Derek Lowe (the winning pitcher in the WS clincher) to leave via free agency rather than overpay them based on some sort of sentimentality Red Sox fans felt towards them.
I’d love to see Wood come back, but if he doesn’t fit into what the front office is trying to do I completely understand why.
Jody Jody Davis - January 11, 2012
He also kept Varitek and Wakefield around...
I think those were not completely cold blooded baseball decisions.
daily2b - January 11, 2012 via mobile
Rather different
when you’re talking about not matching big money multi-year deals.
It’s easy to sever the tie with sentimentality if the difference in offers is 8 digits and or 2+ years in contract length.
We’re (presumably) talking about competing 1 year deals here.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Within Baseball and Beyond Baseball
Theo and Jed,
I agree with Al wholeheartedly on this. I agree strongly with his implications that letting Kerry Wood go somewhere else this season will take some gas out of the sails for this year and next, and probably affect ticket sales, which would in turn hamper your ability to do some things.
Kerry Wood IS the face of the franchise. The other potential face is a talented young kid who commits a lot of errors and is facing charges of sexual assault. Umm….
Gotta put it to you some other ways. When Kerry left to collect $20 million from the Indians, we were really bummed. But we love the guy, and we knew it was his only chance to grab that kind of cash in his career. I secretly hoped he would be back, but I was happy for him.
And he did come back. He gave the Cubs a HUGE hometown discount, way more than he should have, with guys like Rafael Soriano pulling in huge contracts. He gave discounts in the past too.
He’s a GOOD guy. A GREAT human being. A leader. And a decent pitcher on top of it all. This has huge value for the team. And for us. Cubs fans. And we, the die-hards, the ones who bleed blue, we are the ones who will always be there for you. But we do tend to show up more when we love and respect the team, EVEN when they are losing, which they are certain to do quite a bit of this summer – just being honest.
Most of all, Theo, Jed – I don’t think I’m alone in this… I’m 44 years old, but I still have the fantasy mapped out in my mind. My buddy and I are at the game, dressed as the Blues Brothers at Wrigley Field. It’s the ninth inning, it’s late October, and we have a comfortable lead over the Yankees. And Kerry Wood is on that mound. And he mows down ARod, throwing one slurve, the pitch his doctors don’t allow him to throw any more, for the third out. And we cheer and cry, and Kerry Wood is carried all over the field on people’s shoulders.
Make it happen. Please. It’s not a major sacrifice. Not a sacrifice at all, really. We love the guy.
KO Stradivarius - January 11, 2012
And he mows down ARod, throwing one slurve, the pitch his doctors don’t allow him to throw any more, for the third out.
I must say, this gave me goose bumps. :) Rec’d.
If I could, I’d rec again, for your user name. “Hello, Ma. Ya seen, Larry, Ma?” :)
jdb-44 - January 11, 2012
Forgot to mention
My brother used to rent a house near Kerry’s previous home in Old Town, near Armitage and Sheffield. He bought lemonade on the street from my niece.
It’s hard to guage the value of Kerry Wood without being a true Cub fan. We’ve seen so many come and go. In Chicago, we understand the value of character in an individual. Among our friends, among our neighbors. We value character in Ernie Banks. We miss it in Ron Santo.
Remember when Wood and DeRosa were gone, and Milton Bradley took their place? Who does things like that? Well, imagine next year, Szamardzija pitching the 8th instead of Kerry Wood. Self-inflated, underperforming wide receiver drawing a smattering of applause and boos… Would we rather hear cheers and adulation? It just feels a lot different to watch.
KO Stradivarius - January 11, 2012
Spellcheck
actually had a good year last year. The WARs of both players were similar, Spellcheck had better surface level stats (W-L, ERA, etc) but Wood had slightly better FIP and xFIP……they’re actually pretty comparable players looking at last year’s stats. And if Spellcheck can control his 5 walks/9 innings, he could show some solid improvement.
jballgame - January 11, 2012
It's easy to tell how much this guy is loved:
800,000 claim to have been in attendance for a regular season game in 1998.
Please sign this guy.
Mr.Charisma - January 11, 2012
Now this raises a valid point.
I was one of the 15,758 in attendance that day, May 6, 1998, for Kerry’s 20-K game.
Weekday games in May draw a lot more than that now. One of the reasons they do is Kerry Wood.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
AYFKM?
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
No, I'm not FKY.
I said “one” of the reasons. Did you have trouble understanding that?
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
I really don't
Understand your point either, Al.
John916 - January 11, 2012
The point is
… that the popularity of Wood has helped bring and keep fans, whether he pitches in a game or not. He’s the face of the franchise. That has value.
Of course it’s not the ONLY reason more people come to games, but it is ONE of the reasons.
Make more sense now?
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
This is crazy. I don't know one person who will buy or not buy a ticket to a Cubs
game because Kerry Wood may or may not be sitting down in the bullpen.
However, if it can be proven that he is the only set-up man in baseball who puts thousands in the seats each day, then pay him whatever he wants. He has transcended mortal sport and plays instead amongst the Gods.
Can the first statue for a guy who has less than 100 career wins be far behind?
the nth - January 11, 2012
I'll buy a ticket to a Triple A game to see a
Rehabbing Kerry Wood.
epsilon - January 12, 2012
me too.
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
Which is a much, much, much cheaper ticket
than you can buy to any major league game. Actually, I don’t even recall the last time I paid for a Silverhawks ticket, and that includes one of the games when Ryno was in town.
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
yeah,
Nashville Sounds tickets TOPS are $7
epsilon - January 12, 2012
however Tennessee Smokies
tickets last year were 10 bucks…Sounds are AAA Smokies are AA and the smokies are REALLy out of the way….
epsilon - January 12, 2012
I kind of have to third that..
I understand the good will factor, but I don’t know of anybody buying a ticket anymore because Kerry’s pitching.
Damen Jackson - January 11, 2012
tomas21
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
That isn't the point.
The point is, if new management refuses to sign the face of the franchise because of a relatively small difference in the amount offered and asked for, some fans might get disgusted enough to stop buying tickets completely.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
how many fans? rough estimate?
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
34
Arbusto - January 11, 2012
Okay...
Good enough, then.
Damen Jackson - January 11, 2012
I agree with Al
Some of you are acting like it’s a bad business move to sign Kerry Wood. As if we’re asking for charity. Kerry Wood represents a time before the Cubs could sell out a crappy team in a prehistoric ballpark. Everybody says they were die hard in the mid-90’s, but we know that their popularity sky-rocketed in the 2000’s. Kerry Wood is an icon for those of us stuck with this team through that awful decade. There’s value in that. Value that, perhaps, a couple of upper level managers from other cities fail to understand. I think Al is trying to communicate that value in his letter.
You can’t go out and find another Kerry Wood.
Mr.Charisma - January 11, 2012
meh
… when wood left for cleveland a few years ago people didnt stop buying tickets and for this season having wood come back wont help tickets sales. The cubs are gonna lose between 90 and 100 games this year, Kerry Wood or no kerry wood, ticket sales are gonna be down BIG i bet
chit0wn - January 11, 2012
But it's different this time!!!
Why? Because some people say it is!!!! That’s why!!!
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
can someone tweet it so i know to believe it?
epsilon - January 11, 2012
When Wood left for Cleveland
… the Cubs were defending NL Central champions. You think that might sell some tickets?
It’s different now.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
I love how often you argue that it’s not about Wood drawing more fans, and then argue that it’s about Wood drawing more fans.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
you really think bringing a bullpen pitcher back
… will sell more tickets? Maybe a few hundred extra tickets but i think ur over rating Woods popularity among the fans. No hard feelings against the guy but i think its silly wasting 5 million on a bullpen pitcher in a rebuild season, especially one whos getting older and gets hurt all the time.
chit0wn - January 11, 2012
...
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
first rec sir.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
Must. Buy. Tickets.
Must. Buy. Tickets.
daver - January 11, 2012
also, sandberg was mentioned and no picture was posted...
you, sir, are failing.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
I genuflected...felt I needed to.
Easy Ed - January 11, 2012
meh... no rainbows, no unicorns, no puppies and no cleavage
No wonder Wood’s not smiling…
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
Would you settle for a womens volleyball pic??
Hammer - January 11, 2012
maybe.
or a certain USA women’s soccer goalie pic
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
K
Hammer - January 11, 2012
How many pics did it take
For her leg to be just high enough to obscure the beav shot?
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Haha
It was a pretty cool issue though
Hammer - January 11, 2012
wait that isn't clay matthews?
D98 - January 11, 2012
nice
Hammer - January 11, 2012
Hair is too short
Plus doesn’t look whiney.
NobodySpecial - January 11, 2012
well since I make it to Wrigley
like 2 times a year. I AM one of those fans. I dont always see wood pitch, but I do enjoy seeing at least a FEW recognizable people. Castro is slowly becoming the new face for me, but to make a 7 hr trek to see a team full of unknown talent, isn’t worth the gamble. Im not saying my decision is entirely based on wood, it was seeing Marshall Z and wood(longtime cubs) and now 2/3 are gone. Next season I will have fornulated my opinion on who I like and don’t which in turn brings me back to Wrigley.
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
and another reason is they sell hot dogs
Hammer - January 11, 2012
and black-slime-ice
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
Because he might strike out 20 people in an inning if he's possibly brought in?
Arbusto - January 11, 2012
17 dropped 3rd strikes?
Fukudometer - January 11, 2012
thats a rough inning.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
Koyie Hill behind the plate??
Hammer - January 11, 2012
or koyie hill swinging
epsilon - January 11, 2012
Disappointed in you, Al. Begging? It's come to that?
I had a long reply to this, but, then I thought…why?
Let’s just hand Wood a blank contract and he can fill it in with the amount AND years. It’s what Jim Hendry would do.
Easy Ed - January 11, 2012
Sheesh.
Hardly asking for that. Just giving a little more $ for the face of the franchise.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
its no dig at you Al,
but when i think of the Chicago Cubs, I do not think of a middle reliever. I have fond memories of Kerry, but i do not think of him as the Face of the Franchise. I think the Face of the Franchise is Castro, sexual assault outcome pending..
epsilon - January 11, 2012
Maybe in the future.
But right now, much of the fanbase continues to remember Kerry and what he accomplished.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
But it's not nostalgia.....
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Why the F
do you care so much? Honestly. Even if Al, or me, or anyone else wants him around for completely, 100% nostalgia reasons (not saying they do, but if) why do you care so much that you’d comment like a 100 times about it?
Everyone wants to win above all, but some people watch games for MORE than just winning. And there isn’t going to be a lot of winning this year, so forgive them if they want some of those other things attached to next season.
You and troutfishin seem like this bothers you a whole lot more than I would expect it to bother anyone. If he was getting a 4 year contract, then I’d see the angst. But I don’t get being so upset about a one year contract for a good middle reliever/setup guy that many people really, really enjoy having as part of the franchise for whatever reason they want.
tomas21 - January 11, 2012
Well, when it comes to Al
because he’s being completely disingenuous. If he were freaking honest about his motives, it wouldn’t be nearly as silly.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Read the post again.
I said he’s my favorite current player. What’s disingenuous about that?
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
It's the claims that you want him here because of his value to the team
The claims this isn’t about nostalgia while writing a freaking plea to sign him.
For the love of god, just freaking admit it. If you think admitting the real reason you want him here is because you will lose credibility or something, I can assure you steadfastly denying something so incredibly obvious is doing that quite a bit faster
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Why do you
turn almost everything Al writes into a pissing contest? I don’t know about anyone else but I’m really tired of it. YOU take the pleasure out of visiting this site. You’ve already stated you don’t care for Al so maybe you should take some time away from here.
sue369 - January 11, 2012
Well since you asked...
Al would like to hold himself up as someone who is at or near a level of a journalist. I don’t believe he’s anywhere near that level and am perfectly comfortable telling him so.
Sorry if that ruins your enjoyment, but I’m going to continue doing so.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Sounds like a severe case
of jealousy on your part.
sue369 - January 11, 2012
Uh huh
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
I think Al puts his big boy pants on one leg at a time...
…like everyone else but yet you seem to love to come to his defense at a moments notice.
I’m sure if Al wants to do that, he’ll make it happen. Sorry this site isn’t sunshine and roses where everyone agrees with each other. To me, that’s what makes it interesting.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
i find the lack of agreement quite boring
jesus christos - January 11, 2012
I think there's enough of a consensus on this site.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
i always feel bad when a joke fails
jesus christos - January 11, 2012
Don't feel bad, it's not you....it's me.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
I agree
as I have said before. Sometime the instigators start some great conversation.
Hammer - January 11, 2012
I agree with you 100% Hammer...and I don't agree with Al here on KWood....
however, I don’t see the reason some posters feel the need to demean others when there are different points of view. It comes off as being bully-ish. Also, I see plenty of people here disagreeing with Al, but it does appear obsessive when it becomes relentless and disparaging….it’s distracting. troutfishin is one who usually disagrees with Al, aggressively, but never disrespectfully IIRC.
cooliogirl47 - January 12, 2012
lively debate is what it's all about.
troutfishin - January 12, 2012
Lively debate?
Great.
Constant snark and continuing negativity and harping over and over and over on one thing? Not so much.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
Constant Snark?
I hope that isn’t being at me, because I’ve been at least respectful in our discussion.
This is your blog Al, we all understand that but with that you are also going to subjected to the slings and arrows.
You know what they say "if you can’t take the heat…………….
troutfishin - January 12, 2012
"aimed"
troutfishin - January 12, 2012
cant take the heat
be a Celtics fan?
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
Not aimed at you at all, trout.
You have indeed been respectful.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
Nah, it was aimed at me.
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
The BCB Al Yellon Rescue Brigade springs into action yet again!
South Side Expat - January 11, 2012
Rec'd
… Al has no problem sticking up for himself, this site would suck if everyone always got along
chit0wn - January 11, 2012
It's not that I'm coming to Al's defense
I’m just tired of Nunya shitting all over every thread. It gets old.
sue369 - January 11, 2012
...
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Thanks for proving my point.
sue369 - January 11, 2012
.....
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
And yet again.
sue369 - January 12, 2012
So, you hate it so much, and you hate me so much that.
you came back to this thread and this comment just to say that?
alright.
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
You want it to stop
then you stop.
sue369 - January 12, 2012
What the hell do I care if you whine at me?
You’re the one who is complaining that I’m ruining the site for you. I’m ruining the site for you SOOOOO much, that you’re SPECIFICALLY coming back into this thread to read what I posted and then comment on it.
That doesn’t really bother me. It’s sort of ridiculous on your part but whatev
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
It's my right to respond to your
comments to me as much as you feel it’s your right to bash Al for almost everything he writes. You don’t want me replying to your comments to me then stop replying.
sue369 - January 12, 2012
...
Nunya: “Indubitably!”, “You first, my dear,”
Sue: “But, no, no, no. It must be you who goes first!”.
santoswoodenlegs - January 12, 2012
Sue, you can respond to any comment of mine you want
I truly don’t give a shit. I simply find it hilarious that you “can’t stand me” that I make it less enjoyable to come on here, and then go out of your way to engage with me.
But by all means, keep on keeping on.
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
I for one am glad we can all be grownups
unretrofied93 - January 12, 2012
I'm rubber and you're glue
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
Dud you are the one who posted the
childish picture under my reply to troutfishin.
sue369 - January 12, 2012
what exactly is your point?
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
It's not just that you're perfectly comfortable to tell him so, Nunya.
It’s that you’re perfectly comfortable telling him so SO REGULARLY. It’s something that happens multiple times a day.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Yup.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Why not do it by email, though?
Craig in South Bend - January 11, 2012
I guess the simplest answer to that would be...I've never had to inclination to do so.
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
Fair enough
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
Better yet... get dressed up in a natty old Cubs uniform
…buy a bleacher ticket (or hang outside Wrigley until someone just gives you one) and then go stand behind Al’s seat and tell him whatever you want.
Oh, and make sure you intersperse your diatribe with lots of “Woo”. ;-)
ballhawk - January 12, 2012
It's odd that it bothers you
so much that you’ll spend a significant portion of your day trying to prove him wrong or denounce him.
There are lots of people here who don’t agree with everything Al says, and will call him out when they do. It seems like it’s kind of an obsession for you.
tomas21 - January 11, 2012
Yup. Jealous and Obsessed. That's me
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
let the trolls pick the internet fights
I disagree with some views of Al, but I don’t freak out non-stop about them to him because he’s nice enought to run a blog where we can discuss the one love we all have in common
unretrofied93 - January 11, 2012
Hey...C'mon...don't forget me...
…it bothers me, too.
He’s the most over-rated sports figure the city of Chicago has seen since William “The Refrigerator” Perry. And “The Fridge”, at least, got a ring. And rings DO matter. Have at it. I can take it.
Easy Ed - January 11, 2012
ed, you are one paranoid, tin foil hatted SOB...
but on this you are right, he is an overrated sports figure. he’s probably a fantastic human being with a big heart and an all around good guy, but as a sports figure, meh.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
That choked me up a bit. ; )
Easy Ed - January 11, 2012
I'll have time for nostalgia AFTER we win a WS...
until this organization gets a championship I’m done caring much about how awesome so-and-so was back in the day.
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
yes,sir.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
rec'd
Easy Ed - January 11, 2012
This comment wins the thread
Everything else is irrelevant
Craig in South Bend - January 11, 2012
9
11
sanshokubento - January 12, 2012
Pardon?
daver - January 12, 2012
extremely vague and lame family guy reference
sanshokubento - January 12, 2012
Ah, I see.
Haven’t watched it that much.
daver - January 12, 2012
you obviously must come from where they don't say "what"...
(somewhat vague and lame seinfeld reference)
ballhawk - January 12, 2012
Do they speak English in What?
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
Say what one more time!
daver - January 12, 2012
and im sure the Yankees
think of posada as a DH only too. cmon guy
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
not even the same ballpark...
how can he be the face of the franchise when Jeter is the Franchise? besides Posada played his entire career with yankees. kerry hasnt played his entire career with the cubs.
guy.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
what team
was ken griffey Jr the face of?
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
the Mariners...
and then he left the mariners. and when he came back to the mariners, he was no longer the face of the mariners.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
BUT
why did the mariners pick him up? was he the best DH available? or was it because he could hit AND he was loved by the fans and they wanted to see him retire a mariner?
I’m seeing alot of correlation here and as I’ve stated before….if his demands aren’t outrageous, pay the man and let him retire a cub. he obviously loves the city and this team,also his contract has no bearing on the long term plans, and he’s not completely useless, so there isn’t a legit reason why you wouldn’t. Theo has even gone on record as stating he brings something to this team, so he at least recognizes his value
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
meh,
its like going to the state fair to watch lynard skynard play…technically its the same band, but all the good parts are over.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
oh man, wait until they drop down to the county fair level
At least when it’s a state fair, they can cling to the rationalization that there, at most, only 50 of them. But when you open the local paper and see the ad where Foghat is headlining Saturday night down at the ol’ county fairgrounds…
…well, that just hurts a little.
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
i was giving them an emoticon of dignity.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
Emoticon?
Shanghai Badger - January 11, 2012
What is the emoticon for dignity?
daver - January 11, 2012
~ballhawk - January 11, 2012
I'll remember that the next time I have any.
daver - January 11, 2012
duh
8———D
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
McCain's daughter
twice in one interview a couple of days ago was giving the Obama’s an “emoticon” of respect or something…
she meant modicum .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tCkqjc4eBo
epsilon - January 12, 2012
She could have meant "emoticon".
That would probably be even less than a “modicum”.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
a most noble gesture
you probably said a few words when your 8-track player died for the last time too.
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
never went 8 track...
A) too young
B) I’m a vinyl collector.
epsilon - January 12, 2012
Or, in that case, dead.
daver - January 11, 2012
i bet they planned it all along....
on and off negotiations and he gets signed right before the convention. I bet wood accepted it last week. nothing like adding a little buzz to the convention right?
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
posted in wrong spot
fail.
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
the face of the franchise
by default. I love Kerry Wood but let’s be serious here. 86 career wins since 1998, 63 saves, etc, etc. Great time to move on from this loser mentality. If people don’t renew, there’s a whole mess of people waiting to sign up.
cubbot - January 11, 2012
Christ, Ed.
No one is saying ANYTHING about a blank contract.
elgato - January 11, 2012
I sense a new signature line for shoemile...
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
It's not about signing him because he's a popular player who happens to pitch decently.
He’s a decent pitcher who fills a role, who happens to be quite popular.
Steven Schweickert - January 11, 2012
I WAS THERE ON MAY 6, 1998
Occupy the 20K Gamedtpollitt - January 11, 2012
I have it on DVD
Hammer - January 11, 2012
I wasn't actually there.
I was in high school. Saw the end at home on WGN.
dtpollitt - January 11, 2012
I was a senior
had baseball everyday after school.
Hammer - January 11, 2012
Same here
I remember getting home from school and my mom telling me I had to watch the end of this game.
madcow256 - January 11, 2012
I caught the last bit of the game
After I got home from school.
Arbusto - January 11, 2012
I was trying to follow the game on ESPN Gamecast in the office...
man gamecast sucked back then.
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
I sat on my couch in Ohio
and watched every.single.pitch. It was glorious.
cubzfan - January 11, 2012
Remember how much he was trambling in the postgame interview??
I love having the DVD because I can fast forward to the white out pitches. The last pitch of the game I still think is the best pitch I ever saw. He threw a bunch of those.
Don’t forget Sandy Martinez practically doing the splits behind home plate.
Hammer - January 11, 2012
*wipe out pitches
Hammer - January 11, 2012
Al, a well written persuasion piece that embodies a fan perspective
And granted this is a fan site where fans have their perspectives; consumed by sentimentality, past imageries and what is considered an abstract relationship esp with players (public personalities). MLB is also a big business, a big business that in part it chief marketing foundation is sentimentality, it rich history, its stats, etc . Heck what other professional sport honestly has an asterisk for historical records, or even talks about it?
Okay, my take on the whole matter is it is a tempest in a tea pot. Epstein and Hoyer are ripping the previous Cubs team apart and saying to many a fan, trust us on paper the team might look like KC or Pittsburgh without many marque players to embrace, but trust us the Cubs will win and probably win more than last year, but trust us. Wood represents so much of the past but he is not going to strike out 20 batters, nor do any of those accolates except an occassional late inning strike out the side followed by a failed hold.
The reality is that some other team (Philly) has now valued him in the market more than the offer than the Cubs already gave him (which was more than last year, even at 100% increase, it would be now a home town discount at $3M) but also probably some option for next year based on appearances that will automatically vest it. Wood also sees the hand writing on the wall and sees that Epstein and Hoyer are cold hearted suits who wouldn’t bat an eye if the Yanks or Angels or Rangers came to them in July and offered to over pay for Wood in a mid season trade. If that were the case why not go to Philly.
So Wood (and wife) are asking for a no trade. Maybe that was verbally assured but Wood (and wife) don’t trust the new guys, esp if there is $1M (that is a lot of money) over there with another year assured if he makes his appearances.
My guess is that this is where Ricketts must come in and not change the terms (whatever was offered to Wood by Epstein/Hoyer it must stand, they are in charge) and further they are not going to offer no trade (probably no more ever seeing how it froze the Cubs up in the Hendry era), but Ricketts could give his word to Wood that no trade will be honored by him.
This way Wood’s agents cannot tell their colleagues in crime that the Cubs already reneged on that but by verbal handshake Ricketts can keep things in order. Secondly the Cubs could offer Wood an option of $X if he is not signed next year.
All is well. As for his value that was already established when Wood was offered a contract.
Ivy Walls - January 11, 2012
How about an incentive-based contract.
I think that would be reasonable. 3-3.5M base salary with 1-1.5M an incentives, mainly regarding IP. I read somewhere, no link right now, that Maholm has 550K in incentives for this year. 50K for 150IP and 100K for every 10 more IP after that. I like the incentives in contracts, and I think it could work well with Kerry and the Cubs this year. I’ll work on the link but got it from a Cubs news app on my phone. It also makes me wonder how most contracts are structured like Maholm’s. For example, Dempster’s last year. I’ve always liked him and all but if Q pushed him to the 200IP mark for the money I wouldn’t be very pleased. It might shed some light on why he stuck with so many vets last year. Maybe Q knew he’d be done in MLB after last year, considering he has not a clue how to manage, and made a deal with some vets to reach incentive marks. Maybe he took a cut, far-fetched of course but who the hell really knows.
KJ24 - January 11, 2012
Link to incentive details on Maholm..
KJ24 - January 11, 2012
Whoops..http://chicagocubsonline.com/
KJ24 - January 11, 2012
Try posting it in the
comment section (down here). Can’t click on the link in the headline.
sue369 - January 11, 2012
Thank you Sue
http://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2012/01/cubsnewsrumors_53.php
KJ24 - January 11, 2012
No problem.
I did the same thing the first time I posted a link. :)
sue369 - January 11, 2012
did they have
hyperlinks back then? it’s been so long…
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
nope, they had lance links
ballhawk - January 12, 2012
Wow
that just brought me back
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
A more direct link might be useful
Arbusto - January 11, 2012
Great read, Al
I just can’t get excited about this year. Losing Kerry Wood would add to that gloom. I’m getting too old to have to wait until next year.
WBdogs1 - January 11, 2012
Al, Theo Epstein Tweets his reply, no fooling!
cst_cubs cst_cubs Theo on Cubs/Wood mutual interest in deal: If we can’t figure this out, something’s wrong.Ivy Walls - January 11, 2012
He basically said the same thing during his radio interview last week.
elgato - January 11, 2012
so in reference to self examination
what would go wrong?
Ivy Walls - January 11, 2012
Huh?
elgato - January 11, 2012
turn your head and cough
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
ha
elgato - January 11, 2012
na
daver - January 11, 2012
ni
Shanghai Badger - January 11, 2012
Did someone say "Ni"?
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Now bring me a shrubbery
Shanghai Badger - January 11, 2012
Here.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
We demand... ...another shrbubery!!
with a little path… …a path, a path! ni, shh.
mrtobby - January 12, 2012
That tweet isn't from Theo.
cst_cubs is Gordon Wittenmyer.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
went to the source
Gordan quoted directly Epstein who was meeting with the press (beat writers), that was his quote.
Ivy Walls - January 11, 2012
Dave Cameron's (quick) perspective.
Fangraphs is having a live chat with Dave Cameron and I asked him the following question:
His response:
I guess my immediate reaction is…really? His recent injury problems aside, Joe Nathan would seem to have a much more consistent track record as a reliever than Kerry Wood. Maybe he thinks Nathan is in a sharper decline because of that injury? Anyway, just another perspective to consider.
daver - January 11, 2012
BTW, Wood seems calm in tweeting Maholm in joining him on Friday nite
@KerryWood Kerry Wood
@paul_maholm glad to hear your coming on Friday night. Congrats on signing with the cubs, you picked the best city in baseball. Enjoy it!
Ivy Walls - January 11, 2012
Tweet from Jon Morosi:
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Looks like
your open letter is working. It’s all about you Al.
wild bill - January 11, 2012
(braces for comments about how tweets are pure speculation)
elgato - January 11, 2012
Heh.
Sure, Morosi might be speculating. That one does have a bit more concrete info.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
speculate or what
My guess was that there was an agreement in principle, Phillies came in with stronger offer that made Wood (and wife) naturally recoil, the offer included something about 2013 (option) that is business…
one can say renege or one can say the market place changed, matters little,
what matters is what happens.
Ivy Walls - January 11, 2012
I recall a Wood tweet
Coming back from WI and looking forward to Friday and something about how great Chicago is.
then yesterday when things blew up alongside rumors of Wood being pursued by Philly
now today
Ivy Walls - January 11, 2012
Are you misreading "reengaged"
as “renege” rather than “re-engaged?”
Arbusto - January 11, 2012
I like saying the word "renege" with a French accent.
daver - January 11, 2012
you probably ask for Grey Poupon on your Vienna Beef hot dog too...
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
But of course...auh huh huh huhhhhhhh
daver - January 11, 2012
Out of curiosity ...
why is this tweet any more solid in your mind than the Soriano tweet from last night?
elgato - January 11, 2012
the #cubs hashtag, silly...
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
No.
You can’t tell the difference in tone between this
and this?
One is quite a bit more specific than the other.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Sure, it has more contract details.
But you’re assuming the Soriano information necessarily has more details that would allow the tweet to be more specific.
elgato - January 11, 2012
That's my entire point.
It has NO details.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
But you're assuming there are details to be had.
Aren’t you?
elgato - January 11, 2012
Wait.
I’m not sure I understand.
The tweet about Wood was very specific: they are talking again and making progress on a deal with an option.
The tweet about Soriano says he’ll “likely” start the year in LF (a maybe) and “should be in the AL” (reporter opinion).
NOW do you see the difference?
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
yabbut, more details don't matter much if they're wrong
IMO – there’s not much to either of those tweets. They’re both masters of the obvious.
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
The better in the AL think is reasoned opinion.
But I’m not sure if “making progress” is that much more concrete than “likely”, Al.
elgato - January 11, 2012
How can you have details
about a lack of deals?
“Orioles did not offer a deal for Soriano today; neither did the rest of the league.”
I think I’ll go tweet that now.
Arbusto - January 11, 2012
link
for teh proofz?
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
Here's your proof
Proof!
Arbusto - January 11, 2012
You can't prove a negative
Or so I’ve been told. But I haven’t seen any proof.
Shanghai Badger - January 11, 2012
You guys
are parsing words from tweets like they were handed down from Moses.
tomas21 - January 11, 2012
Please tell me there's a FakeMoses tweeter ID out there somewhere...
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
Oh and
you might not have seen the trick or tweet whatever it is, yet. But because you spearheaded this new effort, they will ask you to pony up the difference the Cubs will be paying to what they were going to offer. So good for you. Get your wallet out.
wild bill - January 11, 2012
What, my season ticket $$ wasn't enough?
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Give until it hurts baby.
It’s for the greater cause.
wild bill - January 11, 2012
Right idea for (mostly) wrong reasons
As I stressed in the other thread this is NOT about sentiment, it is about keeping a functioning bullpen. I don’t get the concept of basically ALL relief pitchers being either interchangeable or unimportant. The bullpen matters a lot especially with a less than stellar
starting rotation. It is not like Wood would be blocking ANYONE. Cubs don’t have a single well regarded relief pitcher let alone set up guy close to MLB ready. You want to throw out Dolis & Beliveau be my guest but no reason to believe they will be particularly good at this point and bringing up pitchers to get shelled does not help them.
So let’s get to the money issue. While I am not sentimental I think you do give Wood a little extra credit for taking less than half of what he was offered by Jed himself last year. Doesn’t mean you overpay but it does mean you don’t insult him by expecting him to sign for millions below his value. Dan keeps pushing me on a figure so I will say up to 4 million with some kind of mutual option for next year if needed. He is WORTH the money and a much needed part of the team. No need to go back to 1998 to show his value.
Doggie Stalker - January 11, 2012
Spellcheck and Russell........
would like a word with you…….
jballgame - January 11, 2012
I did a detailed BP breakdown in the other thread
At this point I would consider Russell the most reliable arm in the bullpen which is beyond scary.
Doggie Stalker - January 11, 2012
Spellcheck and Wood
actually had pretty similar stats last year, albeit Wood’s peripherals were a bit better. If Spellcheck can come down a bit on his 5 walks/9 innings, he’ll likely close the gap, and Wood may regress as well. Look-I’m not against bringing Kerry back, but some of the arguments about ticket sales, sentimentality, nostalgia, and having no bullpen are all bad reasons to argue for it (not that you’ve used all of these).
jballgame - January 11, 2012
Each has had one good year
and the former of those is dying to be a starter.
They’re not the nasty boys quite yet.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Didn't say they were......
But to make a comment such as “Cubs don’t have a single well regarded relief pitcher let alone set up guy close to MLB ready. You want to throw out Dolis & Beliveau be my guest” is a bit over the top to try to support an argument for bringing Wood back.
jballgame - January 11, 2012
Spellcheck had ONE decent season
and you want to rely on him? Would any MLB team offer him a contract in the 4 million range?
FYI my reference to one good well regarded relief pitcher was to what we have in the MINORS as so many here keep posting we can just bring someone up to replace him.
Doggie Stalker - January 11, 2012
That's not my point.......
I’m not against signing Wood. I’m simply pointing out that you were a bit over the top in your points to support signing Wood by making statements such as the ones I quoted above.
Further-it doesn’t matter who would/wouldn’t offer Spellcheck $4M either. He and Wood have similar stats, and yet Spellcheck costs less than Wood will for similar performance.
jballgame - January 12, 2012
It does in fact matter that Spellcheck could not a fraction of what Wood could
as an FA. It shows that OTHER teams believe that Wood has significantly more value than Spellcheck and one decent season does not mean they are in fact “equal” in value.
Doggie Stalker - January 12, 2012
How can you possibly claim to know what kind of offers Spellcheck would get in FA?
bdlugz - January 12, 2012
Spellcheck.....
isn’t a free agent. Moot, hypothetical point. Move along. And just because somebody is “offered” something doesn’t make them worth it……don’t make me cite examples…….they’re pretty obvious.
jballgame - January 13, 2012
I want us to go farther than just bringing back Wood
I want us to bring back Mark Prior and Sammy Sosa as well.
If we are slashing payroll to early 90’s levels to keep 20 Ricketts on the payroll. At least throw us a bone so we can remember the good times.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
We have a winner!
Dumbest comment of 2012!
elgato - January 11, 2012
c'mon
it’s still early.
Fukudometer - January 11, 2012
Payroll is down 60 million from when they bought the team
But they did put a fresh coat of paint in the bathrooms. So all is well.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Payroll's around $100 million.
If you factor in the guys due raises. And the offseason isn’t over.
elgato - January 11, 2012
You can be sure that Byrd, Dempster and probably Garza will be gone at some point soon
Payroll was 150ish when they bought the team. I just hope we return that that level at some point soon.
Prefer it to happen before we punt 2013 and 2014 along with the 2012 season that we’ve already decided to do.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
As far as I know ...
payroll never got past $145 million or so. The odds that Dempster gets traded before season starts are remote (10-5 plus a down year), Garza’s anybody’s guess, and would you really be heartbroken if we traded Byrd?
Let’s say Byrd AND Garza are dealt. The Cubs payroll will still be above the laughably low number that you mentioned ($85 million, not $70 million). And the Cubs appear about ready to re-up Kerry, which would cut some of the difference.
elgato - January 11, 2012
My bad -- you didn't say $70 million
But the rest of my post stands.
elgato - January 11, 2012
I don't care if we trade everyone off this roster, Castro included
I just want this organization to do whatever they need to do to compete. That includes spending the money necessary to bring in actual MLB level talent.
Especially considering that the revenue they have at their disposal is the Cubs GREATEST COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
I think TheoJed ...
are trying to make it so that’s NOT their greatest competitive advantage. And more power to them.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Why not use that inherent advantage to full effect?
Not using your market to your advantage is like a 7’3 Center chucking 30 foot shots all night because he wants to be a guard.
You are in a big market. You have plenty of revenue. Why pretend we moved the team to Pittsburgh?
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Because to do so in this offseason ...
would be a waste of money. It would create yet another junk-food high that would and put us through another one of these two-year good, two-year bad windows.
elgato - January 11, 2012
So what exactly is the ultimate end game here?
Are we going to be crap until the kids that Thoyer drafts this year develop?
At some point we are going to have to spend on impact players. Are we willing to give away 3 years before we do it?
aaronb - January 11, 2012
At some point, we will spend on impact players.
I’d imagine it’ll happen next offseason, when Rizzo, Jackson and Castro are set to start in 2013. We’ll add some free agents (Cain? Hamels?) to bolster the rotation.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Ralph Sampson was 7'4"...
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
So you'd rather we still be on the Jim Hendry spending plan?
Look man, I totally understand that this team is way upside down when it comes to payroll, ticket prices and on field performance…but give this new front office at least one freaking off-season before you pile on.
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
Its better then money
These are IOUs
Hammer - January 11, 2012
That clip is giving me a seizure.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Yes
The spending of money isn’t what our problem was. It was the people we spent on.
All things being equal I’d rather have 150 Million to spend on payroll instead of the 90 we are spending now.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Here's what you keep failing to grasp.
The Cubs have $90 to $100 million committed for a bad team. Even if the Cubs had gone to the $140-$150 million level, the team STILL wouldn’t have been more than about a .500 squad in 2012. Remember, when they spent like mad men in 2006-07, the team only won 85 games, and the team after 2006 was better than the team after 2011. Meanwhile, the guys they would have had to sign would have required multi-year deals that would look worse and worse as time went by (see: Soriano, Alfonso).
In other words, to get to 2007-style good, the Cubs would have had to spend even more on aging free agents, making the low end of the cycle in about four years possibly worse than what we’re seeing now.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Disagree
That core that was purchased after 66 win team in 2006 led to an 85 win club and a 97 win club. All we would need to do is get good enough to bridge out to the prospects that we are supposed to get around to drafting this year.
Fielder
Headley
Kuroda
Beltran/Kubel/Cuddyer
Could have been easily done this offseason. It could have been done while staying under 150 Million in 2012 payroll also.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
150 sounds high
for where TR seems to want it. 130 is more like it.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
I can live with 130's if he will promise to keep it there
My worry is that he is trying to stay under 100 annually.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
in payroll?
that’s a dumb thing to worry over.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
Is it really?
I think the payroll issue is MUCH more important going forward than the status of a 35 year old injured middle reliever.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
I don't foresee that.
A year or two below 100 mil while the Soriano contract is absorbed makes sense.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
Partially I am reading between some lines
However I still can’t shake the thought of him saying he figured we’d stay in the top 4 of NL payrolls during the 2010 season.
4th place payroll was 97 million dollars.
Conversely, look where our payroll is as soon as he could get it there.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
look at the reason he got it there...
he’s not going below 100mil just to get below 100mil. he’s getting there because the people causing us to go over 100mil SUCK and have no future on this team.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
After this season the only guy still on the payroll
Is Soriano for 18 million. I just can’t understand letting 1 bad contract be an excuse to fail.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Baloney.
You simply aren’t realizing how much better the 2006 Cubs were than the 2011 Cubs were, regardless of record.
Going into 2007, the Cubs had Aramis and D-Lee in their primes. The Cubs right now have nothing like that. And the bullpen going into 2007 was better, too, with Dempster, Howry and Eyre.
elgato - January 11, 2012
The pitching staff is improved from 2006 to 2011
aaronb - January 11, 2012
That's arguable.
The Cubs have a TON of question marks in the current rotation.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Gaza, Z and Dempster were miles ahead of the 2006 squad
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Zambrano, now, would have been a complete crapshoot.
Dempster is old and also a complete crapshoot.
Garza now versus Z then? Hard to say — but Zambrano in 2007 had had several more good consistent years.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Headley would be a trade, though, no?
And I’m doubtful the Padres and going to move him.
daver - January 11, 2012
And the Cubs have rolled the dice on Ian Stewart.
Which could work.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
You think
Kuroda completes the Cubs’ pitching staff?
Did you watch any baseball in 2011?
Oh… and Fielder + Kuroda + “RF” + existing expenses pushes well over $150M.
Finish it off with not really having anything to trade for Headley (maybe Cashner, taking another hit to the pitching staff).
And that team is still stretching to finish over .500.
But otherwise, that’s an excellent plan.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Disagree
Fielder at 7/154 which is what Adrian Gonzalez got.
Kuroda at about 2/18
Kubel signed for 2/14
Headley could have been gotten for probably a Cashner and Szczur package. He is going to get about 3 million in arbitration.
We are sitting at about 90-95 million in salary right now after auto renews and arbitration.
95 plus
Fielder at 15
Kuroda at 8
Kubel at 7
Headley at 3
We would have been looking at 128 million bucks.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
you haven't dealt much with Scott Boras, have you?
I don’t think you’re getting Fielder at 15
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
Yeah, that's laughable.
elgato - January 11, 2012
7/154 for Fielder
16 million in 2012
23 million annually from 2013-2018
What is so laughable about that? Seems like a completely realistic offer.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Fielder and Boras ...
are looking at close to Pujols money and close to Pujols years.
elgato - January 11, 2012
and if for some reason the market falls out for a Pujols-like contract
then you can bet they’ll go the much-rumored opt-out clause route. And if it’s after 3 yrs, there’s no way they go low on annual salary in Y1-3.
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
I'll bet you 100 BCB points
Fielder doesn’t play baseball in 2012 for an annual salary any lower than $19M, and that’s only if there’s a poison pill balloon payment at the end.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Even so
19 million would make that 128 figure be about 132.
Or basically the difference between Kerry Wood or Travis Wood on the roster.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Except that your 128 figure is wrong. So there's that.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Disagree
Kuroda 2/18
Kubel 2/14
Headley 1/3
Fielder 7/154 with 16 coming in year 1
Maybe you could have gotten Z or Dempster to defer a little for later as well.
Bottom line is that the IS a way to compete without having to completely tear down.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Fielder won't accept $16 million in year one!
And you have no idea whether Headley was even a remote possibility.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Have you spoken to him personally?
It’s fairly common for guys to backload deals to work with payroll constraints.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
OK, I'm done with this.
You’ve gone completely off the rails.
elgato - January 11, 2012
By suggesting that Fielder MIGHT take a little less in year one?
Get over yourself dude. Your opinion isn’t gospel. It’’s just the opinion of some schlep on the internet.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Find a mirror.
Look in it.
And repeat what you just said.
Bye.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Well now you're getting creative.
Sure! Prince, too! Everyone will set aside a little dough to put this juggernaut in place.
This is the first absolutely correct thing you’ve said.
Unfortunately, the way to compete is to have several young home grown talents (i.e., cost controlled) to fill out much of the roster so you can spend on difference makers.
The Cubs don’t have enough of the former to logically execute the former.
Theo and Jed will spend when it is time. This isn’t it.
And the team you put together still isn’t a “contender”.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Maybe if they could get more players to defer more money....
Flatley - January 11, 2012
Always a good strategy.
Help a bad team be mediocre in a way that will make future teams worse.
It’s happening!
elgato - January 11, 2012
Have you heard about the new team-building mantra?
“I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a cheeseburger today.”
Or player. Whichever.
Flatley - January 11, 2012
...
Help make the Cubs better in 2012, Wimpy!!
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
that is realistic money
Fielder and Boras arent looking for realistic money, however.
epsilon - January 12, 2012
What do you think he ultimately signs for?
I think he’d be more than willing to take a little less in year one if it meant bringing in some extra help.
Even so, even if it cost a little bit more here or there. You could have easily gotten all of those guys for about 130 million dollars. With that crew you should have had enough to compete in the NL central in 2012.
Which brings me back to the earlier point. What is payroll going to be in Chicago going forward. if 130 is too high then what will be the new annual number?
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Fielder will get at least $20 million in year one.
Putting you over $130 million. And if you backload it (and you would have to even at $20 million in year one) you create the same kind of problems we have now.
Also, when fsu, daver, me and ballhawk all agree that a plan is bad/illogical … it’s probably bad/illogical. Not that we’re geniuses — but to get the four of us in agreement is something.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Yeah, I see what you're trying to do...
…but it just seems like there are some feasibility issues there. As mentioned, I don’t think it’s a given that the Padres will trade Headley. And it seems like Kuroda is being very picky about whom he wants to play for. And I don’t really see how Jason Kubel solves much of anything.
daver - January 11, 2012
That team still isn't overly competitive... plus
No way you get Fielder at $15M, without putting in a balloon payment at the end. The AAV will probably be closer to $22M. So if you’re going all out this year as you propose, you’d probably pay it. And probably 8 years.
We don’t know what Kuroda will get. If you think he’s actually a productive pitcher, then you’re paying more than 8.
Maybe on the Headley package. But giving up two of your top 5 prospects is a pretty big bounty.
Cot’s has the Cubs right now at $68M. To that you’d have to add Marshall (3 to 71 since I presume you wouldn’t trade him since you’re going for it). Add in the $2.5M you wouldn’t get back from Z (73.5). You wouldn’t have traded for Stewart if you’re getting Headley, but since Stewart is arb, his number isn’t in the pile yet. As for the other arb guys…
Garza $9M (82.5), Geo 5 (87.5), Shark 3 (90.5), Baker 1.5 (92), Wells 2 (94), DeWitt 1 (95), not sure on Corpas or Sonnanstine but safe to say 1 each given their service time (97), the 9 more guys required to fill out a roster total roughly 4 (101). Subtract out DJJ (if you’re singing a RF… so back down to 97).
Then add Fielder’s 22 (119), Kuroda (likely at more than 8, but ok, 127), Kubel (134), & Headley (137).
So… you’ve got a payroll in the mid to upper 130s. You have no additions to a mostly barren farm system… in fact you’re taking out two of your top pieces to acquire Headley. And this is the team you can roll out:
Castro, Barney, Fielder, Kubel, Headley, Soriano, Byrd, Soto
Garza, Kuroda, Dempster, Maholm, & Wells
How many games does that team win, even if it can stay perfectly healthy??? 80?
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Heck... almost forgot.
TR said the baseball budget would be about the same.
So, since you’re increasing the player payroll while also paying a new President, 2 GMs, and a bunch more FO staff and scouts…… how exactly are you making that math work?
Signing all those guys maintains the Hendry band-aid over a gusher approach. In that case, you may as well have kept Hendry and save the FO costs.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Rec'd.
Loud, sustained applause.
elgato - January 11, 2012
So we are spending 50 million annually on front office personnel?
aaronb - January 11, 2012
What in the world are you talking about?
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Probably what we should have asked hours ago.
Would have saved time.
elgato - January 11, 2012
What is so hard for you to follow?
I just mapped out the moves we could have easily made to be competitive in 2012 on a 130 Million dollar MLB payroll.
Try and keep up Junior.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
hahaahha
Are you SenorGato? I think you’re SenorGato!
Hey everybody — SenorGato’s back!
elgato - January 11, 2012
Cue the scene in which a man chooses the means of death from Monty Python's Meaning of Life.
No image forthcoming.
Flatley - January 11, 2012
Where's the profanity?
Shanghai Badger - January 11, 2012
What's hard to follow????
How about how you could have possibly read my post and then declared:
That line of “logic” is, indeed, a little hard to follow.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Your quote was
“TR said the baseball budget would be about the same.
So, since you’re increasing the player payroll while also paying a new President, 2 GMs, and a bunch more FO staff and scouts…… how exactly are you making that math work?"
Payroll is down from 145 million when Tom Ricketts bought the team to about 90-95 Million right now.
Your excuse for his is that we have to pay 2 GM’s.
What the hell are these GM’s making that forces our payroll to be off by 50 million dollars?
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Cubs payroll is currently, as of today, assumed at $105 million
If you’re going to use stupid logic, at least use accurate numbers to go along with that stupid logic.
bdlugz - January 11, 2012
According to Cots it's at 68 million
Then we got arbitration and auto renewals. Plus they didn’t have 4.25 million to Paul Gorzellany.
I still doubt its at even 100. Plus they will likely deal out Dempster, Byrd and Garza before paying their full 2012 contract commitments.
Payroll is a fraction of what it was when he bought the team.
No way for the most pollyanna-ish of apologists to spin that.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
counting Z
or no?
timh815 - January 11, 2012
Cots was counting Z
Him and Volstad are a financial wash.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
I'm still thinking Soriano's full freight
will be considered over 2011 and 2012. Just my thoughts
timh815 - January 11, 2012
There's no spin necessary.
Theo’s been awfully up front with what he’s doing. He’s making the Cubs a successful organization. To do that, he’s not wasting money in 2012.
And Dempster’s not going anywhere… at least not to start the season (10/5). Byrd maybe… but probably not until the deadline. Garza is a coin flip.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
I'll go as slow as I can to help you.
There is a “baseball budget”. TR has said time and time and time and time and time again that it will remain the same.
That budget includes major league payroll, FO staffing, spending on amateur signings, and building international facilities.
TR has made a conscious choice to move some of the money from the major league payroll (which ONCE was $145M… otherwise has never been over $135… and look how that turned out) to the other expenditures.
The year they spent $145M is the year they drafted “bargain” Hayden Simpson, since there was no money left over for draft signings.
So last year, we saw the major league payroll “fall” to $134M, while we saw a dramatic increase in spending on amateur talent and the early stages of development for international facilities.
Since the Cubs have chosen to minimize the major league payroll since there was nothing they could do to realistically be a contender this season, they will continue to defer money to those other areas.
There are more FO expenses. Not $50M, which of course I never stated, inferred, or tried to use as an “excuse”.
They are clearly planning to spend more money on international and amateur talent.
And, maybe most importantly…. THE OFFSEASON ISN’T OVER YET. There’s a very strong chance the Cubs will spend $ on one of the Cuban OFs. If/When they sign Kerry, that kicks the payroll a little. More moves will be made.
Theo didn’t come here to operate a payroll consistently in the neighborhood of $100M (which still won’t be the case this year, I’d imagine).
He has chosen to sacrifice some major league expenditures THIS YEAR when there was essentially no way to make the Cubs a contender without continuing to sacrifice any opportunity at a stable future.
In a vacuum, nobody “likes” that the Cubs have punted on this season.
But most of us realize this was necessary. Therefore, that medicine is acceptable for a dramatically brighter future.
Since you’re throwing an internet temper tantrum, I hope that explanation helps you understand the Cubs’ situation.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
1st rec
Shanghai Badger - January 11, 2012
I 2nd
Grockcubs - January 12, 2012
I'd still have dealt Marshall in that scenario
If we are up against it on a budget. I am saving money on window dressing items like middle relief.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Hahahaah
So, sign a bunch of free agents — regardless of cost — but trade away our best reliever who was set to make a paltry $3 million?
elgato - January 11, 2012
Depends on what the budget was
The fact that we have slashed the budget down well below 100 shows that we are under major budget constraints.
If we could have operated at the 145 level we were at before Ricketts bought the team. You keep Marshall.
However if Sean Marshall’s 3 million is the difference between Prince Fielder and no Prince Fielder. You deal him as we did.
I thought Marshall was a nice but completely over rated and easily replaceable piece.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Well, then you're wrong again.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Well.....Thats like......your opinion.....man
aaronb - January 11, 2012
No... it's like... math.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
mmm.... math....
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
Yeah.
Middle relievers with a WAR over 2.5 are a dime a dozen.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Middle relief is a highly volatile collection of assets
You can look around all over baseball and find perfectly acceptable bullpens that are put together cost effectively.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
So then please tell me
who you would cost effectively sign or promote who will match a 2.5 WAR.
Marshall’s last two seasons: 2.2 WAR, 2.8 WAR.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Who knows with bullpens? Which is kind of the point
Marmol resurgence might help? Maybe a Samjay or Russell continues to improve? Maybe a Trey McNutt or Manny Corpas type have a great year?
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Trey McNutt?!
In the bullpen? What the hell?
elgato - January 11, 2012
Maybe in 2014 if the starting thing doesn't work out.
But there is no chance he spends significant time in the pen this year.
Dcr18 - January 14, 2012
And more likely
they turn into Justin Berg, Jeff Stevens, Esmailin Caridad………..
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Certainly possible
Or we can just champion the building of a 100 loss team. Which is apparently what you guys are so thrilled with.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
From the guy advocating Daycare Bullpen II.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Some us are able to see a vision beyond the 2012.
It is unfortunate you are not able to do so.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Whatever dude
Some of us want to hold the organization to a certain standard of monetary investment. If you are cool with going cheap because you are enamored with a suit from Boston, be my guest.
I want to build a successful organization just like you do. I just don’t feel the need to suck for 5 years in the process.
A big market team with our resources can do both at the same time.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
Who has said anything
about sucking for 5 years??
Where do “fans” like you and NBF get this ridiculous notion that “not spending money” this off-season means the Cubs will suck for the better part of the rest of the decade?
Why is it that neither one of you can grasp that “not spending money” this off-season has ZERO predictive value for how money will be allocated next year?
You don’t want to build a successful organization. You want everything now, now, now. Just like a child having a tantrum.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
For a couple of reasons
1. The free agent market for bats sucks next year.
2. Our farm system has nobody other than Rizzo and Jackson that looks like a MLB position player over the next 3-5 years
3. We have shed 50 million dollars of payroll and have not shown any inkling of re-adding to previous levels.
4. All the talk from the front office has been about “building from within” and “cost per win”. Which is generally code for being cheap
If they had interest in spending and competing then should start the process now. No need to try and spree shop at the last minute.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
In order
1. Brandon Phillips is almost definitely going to be a free agent. So may Josh Hamilton. And a young Delmon Young. And there will doubtless be an entire universe of players available by trade as they progress through arbitration.
2. Rizzo and Jackson and Castro aren’t a terrible group of under 25 building blocks.
3. When you have a $60MM team that’s earning $140MM, it stands to reason that some payroll shedding is in order. That’s happening THIS offseason. It has absolutely no bearing on what will happen in the future. Do you really think Theo Epstein signed on to the Cubs in order to run them like the Pirates?
4. No. That is stupid.
It isn’t “the last minute”. It’s barely even the first minute. There is a process in play, and they aren’t even halfway through “Step 1” yet. Get a grip.
D98 - January 11, 2012
THIS HAVING A PLAN THING SCARES ME
jesus christos - January 11, 2012
So may Josh Hamilton.
WE’LL FINALLY GET HIM BACK!
:P
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
Also in order (and all in addition to D98's list)
One: Good thing FA isn’t the only way to acquire players, huh?
Two: So… nobody other than a great top of the order hitter (Castro), a high OBP CF who can hit at or near the top of the line-up (BJ), and a middle of the order run producer (Rizzo)??
And you could add catcher, either in the form of Soto (who will start getting expensive) or Castillo/Clevenger, who should at least be serviceable major leaguers if not impact players.
So…… only half the line-up.
Plus other potential contributors like Barney (fine for an 8 hitter), Szczur, Vitters, and perhaps Ha.
Yep… nobody who might be able to play.
Three: This has been explained to you in a post that turned awfully green. Your “previous levels” stance is speculative and irrelevant… and shows a failure to understand simple accounting and how you build value in an organization.
Four: Really? So… the Boston Red Sox have been cheap, then? Because that is the exact blue print Theo used there. Seems to have worked out alright.
Your last rant: why, because you say so? They should just spend money to… spend money?? Of your “solutions”, Fielder is the only player the Cubs should have checked out. Neither Kubel or Kuroda would be relevant by the time the Cubs “build from within” pieces can contribute (‘13 or more likely ’14). And Headley has been so available that he is still a Padre. You don’t know Theo didn’t make an offer.
So, I’ll give you points for being consistent. You consistently don’t seem to understand the state of the Cub franchise. And for some reason you want to flatly and without merit reject the plan of a guy who built another “cursed franchise” into a perennial contender and two time champ.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
This was the blueprint in Boston?
Manny,Nomar, Lowe and Pedro were there when Theo got there. They were already a contender when he signed on.
He made some nice pickups. He had some guys in the system to trade for a Curt Schilling.
Theo did a nice job in Boston. But lets not even try to compare what he did there and what is going on here. Boston spent money and augmented a Playoff team when Theo got there. They didn’t gut the thing and rebuild.
Either way, ownership is going to have to make a financial commitment to make this thing a winner.
And I still haven’t heard a compelling reason why we need to lose 100 games a year to “rebuild”?
aaronb - January 11, 2012
the 2009-2011 cubs
there’s your compelling reason
jesus christos - January 11, 2012
How hard is this???
Theo never gutted Boston because he had good pieces at the major league level and then brought them a beefed up farm system that consistently produced impact talent.
You may have heard of some of them. Pedroia. Lester. Bucholtz. Ellsbury. Papelbon. Bard.
Of course they do. They already have… and will push the major league budget when they can acquire impact pieces.
You’ve been given countless reasons why the tear down was necessary.
That said, this Cub team won’t lose 100 games. The offense will be less potent, but probably more consistent (far less reliant on the HR).
The team already has much improved starting pitching and defense.
The Cubs were 8th in runs scored in the NL last year. 8-10 is probably a safe bet this year.
They were 14th in runs allowed, fueled by awful starting pitching and committing the most errors in the NL. They were 90+ runs away from being in the middle of the pack in runs allowed.
Given the pitching and defensive improvement, a fair projection would be for the Cubs to finish around 8th in runs allowed (if Garza stays).
That adds up to a similar record to last year. And as bad as the Cubs were last year, they still needed to lose another 9 games to lose 100.
What you don’t get is that spending an extra $35-40M to maybe scratch .500 just doesn’t compute.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
You just said this was the same blueprint Theo used in Boston
Im telling you it has zero resemblance to what Boston did. This plan looks like the plan the Pittsburgh Pirates have used.
You are entitled to your opinion.
My opinion is that going from a 145 million dollar payroll to a 100 million dollar payroll IS NOT A POSITIVE DEVELOPMENT GOING FORWARD.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
But you're forming your opinion based on a TINY sample size
Which is what people clearly have a problem with.
The condescending attitude doesn’t help either though
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
It's the exact same plan.
Different starting points.
Theo had the luxury of skipping steps A, B, & C in Boston because of the existing infrastructure. Those steps have to be taken here.
As Nunya noted… you’re basing your entire conclusion off of less than three months of work.
You also keep conveniently forgetting that that $145 payroll… finished a whopping 83-78.
Theo will spend… when spending is smart.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
It's kind of amazing to me that people think Theo and Jed would BOTH leave their current position
to come to a Cubs team that was going to PERMANENTLY slash payroll.
I suppose you could make the argument that Theo did it because he left a toxic (perennially contending, world championship winning) environment and got a promotion.
WHY would Jed make a lateral move, to a situation identical to the one he just left? A situation where fans will be DRASTICALLY less accepting of a long term “never spend a dime” approach.
It makes zero sense. I get being a bit nervous. Pushing the panic button already seems a bit much.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
I'm not pushing the panic button just yet
I’m just a little confused that people aren’t at least taking note of the payroll situation.
Maybe Theo left because he got tired of the strained relationship with Luchino?
Maybe Hoyer left because the owner wanted to promote Byrnes?
ultimately we all want a consistent winner in Chicago. I just want them to start taking forward steps NOW. And not at some undetermined future date.
Obviously just my opinion. Others are free to disagree.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
They are taking steps now
Has one player been signed where any major outlet said, ‘Theo paid too much’?
timh815 - January 11, 2012
I think most knowledgable Cubs fans...
…are taking note of the payroll. We’re just not panicking over it. In fact, watching our FO bring in so many players without spending a lot of money is actually quite refreshing.
daver - January 12, 2012
the 2007 sox don't win the WS
without the farm system theo and co built
jesus christos - January 11, 2012
The two situations
are totally different: Boston and Chicago. He had building blocks in Boston, Cubs do not. Theo became GM in 2002,and took over a team that was already winning.
I have followed this mini feud between you and everyone else and am baffled by your stance.
I take it by your picture you are a new Cub fan. Patience is a key word for us Cub fans.
Theo is smart, smarter than you and I. Let him do his work.
Grockcubs - January 12, 2012
Been a Cubs fan for 25 years
I just don’t understand why we can’t get some big ticket items now?
I’m all for having a strong ML system and all that. I just don’t buy that we need to lose 100 games a year until we develop that system.
Right now people seem willing to throw the 2012 season away. I doubt sentiments are quite the same when we are 30 under .500 in August.
aaronb - January 12, 2012
There was only one "big ticket" item.
Prince.
You think Kuroda or Kubel or Headley are “big ticket” guys? You really think their presence or absence determines the fate of the 2012 Cubs?
I’ll repeat again… nobody “wants” the Cubs to lose 100 games. And I don’t think they will.
Yes they are “throwing the season away” from a competition stand-point… but, for the dozenth time… there really was not a course of action that was feasible to make the 2012 Cubs a “contender”. As such, there’s no point in spending money on guys who aren’t part of the long-term solution.
Prince is the ONLY guy you can really quibble on. I wanted Theo to sign him. He chose not to. We’ll see how it works.
But the franchise is already headed in the right direction and we haven’t even gotten to Theo’s first ST.
fsuapollo - January 12, 2012
How did they STAY good?
Ellsbury, Lester, Bucholz, Pedroia, Youkilis, Bard, and so on.
All the while, jettisoning older players and acquiring (or making room for) young ones.
Can you imagine if he’d held on to the Damon-Manny-Pedro team like grim death, riding that group of “idiots” back to the pack in the AL East?
Instead, he’s managed to keep transitioning from one group of heroes to another. Now it’s Adrian Gonzalez and Dustin Pedroia and Jacoby Ellsbury. If you’d been in Boston after 2005 you’d be screaming about the loss of Johnny Damon.
D98 - January 11, 2012
And #2 is ignoring people like
Baez, Vogelbach, Dunston Jr., Lake, Candelario, Hernandez, Sappelt, Torreyes, Golden, etc…
But he’s probably right, no major leaguers in our entire farm outside of BJax and Rizzo.
bdlugz - January 11, 2012
You're right on the guys you list
bdlugz, though he did say position players who will impact in 3-5 years.
Of the guys you added, I’d say Lake and Sappelt are probably the only guys (maybe Torreyes?) who could get in on the early side of that window. You’re probably looking at 5+ years for the rest.
fsuapollo - January 12, 2012
Fair enough, but it's certainly possible any of them could be ready in 5 years
Even kids out of HS like Baez and Vogelbach would be 23 years old in 2017, which is not an uncommon age for top prospects to get a taste.
bdlugz - January 12, 2012
Agreed... and thought of that after I posted.
So on this particular instance, I kind of consider you both “right”.
When we get to 4 or 5 years out, I would surely think someone (and hopefully a couple) of those guys are ready to be contributors… but it is also surely fair to say that, at this point, the Cub system is light on impact positional players for that window.
fsuapollo - January 12, 2012
The upper minors aren't ripe with talent
But to claim that no one looks like a MLB regular in our farm over the next 3-5 years shows you have NO idea how the minors work or who is in the lower levels of the Cubs system.
Fixed that for you
bdlugz - January 11, 2012
So you're trying to put together a contender and you think this:
Discussion over.
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
Need one edit
SPs: Garza, Kuroda, Z, Dempster, Maholm
fsuapollo - January 11, 2012
What do you really want to spend it on in this particular offseason?
Other than Soler and maybe Cespedes, there’s not much out there that I’d want.
Dcr18 - January 14, 2012
But is that clip backloaded?
N Oakley - January 11, 2012
Maybe he forgot......
the SARCASM font?
jballgame - January 11, 2012
Headline from MLBTR
Dual meanings?
Fukudometer - January 11, 2012
sounds vaguely erotic
Doggie Stalker - January 11, 2012
They're slow dancing
RiskyBusiness - January 11, 2012
their interpretation of the Morisi tweet
the totality of the tweets = tomorrow an agreement in principle is announced and Friday it is all put to bed at the Convention to cheers and accolades.
Ivy Walls - January 11, 2012
♫ ♫ Why do birds, suddenly appear.... ♫♫
daver - January 11, 2012
This will make most everyone happy
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/cubs-close-to-kerry-wood.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
louslovechild - January 11, 2012
This link
… quotes the Morosi tweet that I posted above.
Yet another reason to check the MLBTR link FIRST before you post it.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
But...it has extra info...like some background stuff and recent stats!
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
Trying to help.
Didn’t really know that it mattered all that much.
louslovechild - January 11, 2012
it doesnt.
but it does.
but really it doesnt.
epsilon - January 11, 2012
Doesn't matter.
Tweets are pure speculation.
Flatley - January 11, 2012
Cry me a river......
it’s one post. Wasn’t a fanshot or something. Christ.
jballgame - January 11, 2012
Trusting Theo/ Jed means giving them room and time folks.
Rick B - January 11, 2012
Carrie tweeted that Milwaukee claimed Bianchi on Waivers
timh815 - January 11, 2012
Already fanshotted.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
Bianchi the Brewer
Has a nice ring to it. Pass the bratwurst.
RiskyBusiness - January 11, 2012
ZOMG
ITS CASEY MCGEHEE ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!11
daver - January 11, 2012
Oh, crap.
elgato - January 11, 2012
Some of this Z and Wood stuff reminded me of a quote from A Few Good Men.
I can hear Theo. I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Wood and Z. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. Zambrano’s loss, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while incomprehensible to you, probably saves games. You don’t want the truth. Because deep down, in places like the bleachers, you want me on this team. You need me on this team.
Rick B - January 11, 2012
So he is going to allow Soriano to be murdered by his teammates and cover it up?
Doggie Stalker - January 11, 2012
If it's a "Code Red"...it's acceptable.
Easy Ed - January 11, 2012
Z can't handle the truth...
malicedoom - January 11, 2012
well, Sullivan will report it as Soriano being transferred to Fort McHenry for his own safety...
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
after reading all this Woody love I'm feeling like he'll back
and then spend most of the year on the DL
doofus cubs guy - January 11, 2012
Uh oh
Easy Ed - January 11, 2012
Fans will flock to Wrigley
Just to catch a glimpse of Woody doing the “Towel Drill”.
aaronb - January 11, 2012
No, that was this guy.
Al Yellon - January 11, 2012
ESPN: Source: Cubs, Kerry Wood close to deal
malicedoom - January 11, 2012
Hey man, where have you been?
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
Who's Kerry Wood?
Easy Ed - January 11, 2012
Hey there! - still around. Just not as often...
malicedoom - January 11, 2012
when you do come around
you might think about reading the thread before posting in it…?
Fukudometer - January 11, 2012
Easy now - I just noticed the other thread. K?
malicedoom - January 11, 2012
You'll have to excuse Fukudometer...
he’s helicopter swinging with his comments again.
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
??
Hammer - January 11, 2012
Bet he had a headache after doing that.
daver - January 11, 2012
or a threesome
Hammer - January 11, 2012
anyone else notice you only see the face of the lady with long hair?
epsilon - January 12, 2012
creepy!!
Hammer - January 12, 2012
"He is...
…the most disinteresting man in the world."
(cue muzak version of Dos Equis theme music)
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
Root for the laundry.
Not for the player. Lots of players have worn Cubs laundry. We have nothing to show for it. The new brain trust has the mandate to do what they need. I trust they will get the job done.
That’s it.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - January 11, 2012
i find the amount of bandwidth that's been spent here on BCB over a relief pitcher rather humorous
jesus christos - January 11, 2012
last year it was the backup catcher that got all the attention...
so we’re making progress I suppose
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
koyie hill was a completely different situation
jesus christos - January 11, 2012
yes, in his case...
it was just the GM and pitchers that wanted him back for sentimental reasons.
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
Nobody is arguing
KWood is a bad pitcher. We are arguing over the proper price for him. It is largely considered 3-6 mil.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
so you're finally willing to admit that you're over the hill?
ballhawk - January 11, 2012
no, there will always be a shadow on my soul...
santoswoodenlegs - January 11, 2012
his ABs and attempts to throw out baserunners have scarred me for life
jesus christos - January 11, 2012
I'd like to see a slugging contest
between KH and Miles. Against real pitchers. Warning track=HR
timh815 - January 11, 2012
What's the tiebreaker
when they both finish with zero?
John916 - January 11, 2012
dunk tank
whoever falls first loses
jesus christos - January 11, 2012
Is Castro
Throwing the ball? We might need a second tiebreaker.
John916 - January 11, 2012
Baserunning skills
timh815 - January 11, 2012
I think Al is to blame for this one.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
i think the amount of bandwidth spent on hill and wood were equal before today
jesus christos - January 11, 2012
Wood I can see, glad I missed the Hill discussions.
troutfishin - January 11, 2012
Does anyone know if Castro is coming to the convention?
Rick B - January 11, 2012
According to all reports yes
ESPN is reporting that the police plan to interview him when he is here.
Doggie Stalker - January 11, 2012
just what cassie needs
… another distraction to his concentration. With Pena gone, i could see cassie leading the NL in errors
chit0wn - January 11, 2012
I would imagine Dale Sveum will be spending A LOT of extra time with Starlin in Spring Training working on his fielding
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Not that it will completely solve the problem, but I would hope the team understands without a gold glove first baseman
Extra care needs to be given to Castro
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
remember the Bobby valentine rant on Cassie?
…. he obviously has trouble staying focused on the game
chit0wn - January 11, 2012
And one would hope the new regime could fix that.
Hendry and Quade’s opinion on the matter was “He’s ready, and now that he’s here, there’s nothing we need to work on”
Then when shit was going south it was “I Know, I’ll single him out! That will fix him!”
If Quade and Hendry were still here, I’d be resigned to Castro just being a massive error machine. I’ve got to hope that this group has a different approach.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Scouting report states Rizzo is a great defensive first basemen
Hammer - January 11, 2012
Yeah, but several reports have him starting in Iowa.
Nunyabidness - January 11, 2012
Yeah I know
I mean considering they are both very young – hopefully they’ll be playing catch at Wrigley soon and for many years.
Hammer - January 11, 2012
Lahair is 1B till rizzo is called up from iowa
chit0wn - January 11, 2012
see above
and I agree that’s where he should start.
Hammer - January 11, 2012
...and won't be calling him "Cassie," we hope.
daver - January 12, 2012
me too!
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
while also leading in BA and hits
Hammer - January 11, 2012
He already accomplished that last year, with Pena.
Rick B - January 12, 2012
I don't see that on the Convention Schedule
am I missing something?
Fukudometer - January 11, 2012
Honesty compels me to say,
Kerry Wood has not been one of my favorites. Just way too much time spent on the DL.
deadcatbounce - January 11, 2012
well one thing we do know
the Cubs front office better send out permission slips to the players parents for the night games. wouldn’t want the youngins out past curfew.
RIP Slim - January 11, 2012 via Android app
I don't even see how this is debatable
You sign Kerry Wood. Period. He can still pitch, and pitch well. He isn’t a reclamation project, or someone to sign on the cheap for a bounce back year. He is a solid 8th inning guy that can get you a strikeout when you need it. He is not a clubhouse cancer, nor is he only in it for the money. He can get lit up one game, but we know he has the mental makeup to bounce back and lay a 0 on a team in his next outing.
The current regime has made plenty of cost cutting moves that paying Kerry Wood what he feels he deserves to make during non contending years should not be even the smallest of issues. If this team was at the breaking point of payroll and one elite player from contending for the world series, then maybe, maybe you don’t pay Kerry Wood, and instead get that player. Signing Wood does not hinder either the short term or the long term plans of this team. We are looking to restock the minors and get out of bad contracts. As this happens, there are zero negatives to spending $4M or so on a guy like Kerry Wood. As a large market team, quibbling over $500k to $1M for a fan favorite that can still bring it is actually quite sad.
Bled Dry - January 11, 2012
Zero negatives?
For 1, 4 mil might not do it.
2, even if they come to an agreement, they might have a pre-snowfall trade brewing. Needing to make a roster move may reduce the opposing GMs offer.
Yeah, this administration values those million dollar amounts. Theo would like to bring in Kerry at Theo’s price, not at Kerry’s.
timh815 - January 11, 2012
I honestly couldn't care less if Wood comes back or not
He had a fine career in Chicago and the same people are going to show up whether if he’s there or not. Who in their right mind, after seeing the crapfest of the last 3 years, is not going to buy tickets because the Cubs don’t sign Kid K? What matters most is winning. If Kerry is the ONLY reliever out there that could give the team the same value at this price, then fine. Sign him if he’s going to make that much of a difference in wins and losses. If someone else is out there though, that gives the team the same amount of value, but for less cost, then go with that guy.
SWL is right. I’ll get nostalgic once we win a World Series, until then, I don’t really care to think much about how great someone WAS in a season of heartbreak. I can honor that guy in different ways.
Craig in South Bend - January 11, 2012
^ Exactly the way I feel.
Ilan - January 11, 2012
me too
cooliogirl47 - January 12, 2012
Paying Kerry Wood $5 million for his service that’s objectively worth $2 million would be horribly stupid. Not even Hendry would have ever done that.
Theo will get it done, there’s no reason to doubt that. But he is bargaining hard and he should be. Quibbbling, even about amounts as laughable as 2 or 3 millions is a core part of his job description.
The Cubs owe Kerry Wood, Theo knows that’s the main reason why it will happen. All the other stuff about Kerry’s invaluable leader skills, drawing fans etc: None of us knows jack about any of this. It seems at least doubful that the Cubs will make millions more in revenue because of a signing Kerry.
Bascially, it’s all just wishful thinking that blissfully obscures the view for known facts. Like that no GM in his right mind should go around handing out millions like candy. Not even to Kerry Wood.
DamageControlFreak - January 12, 2012
Why do people think this:
The Cubs owe Kerry Wood nothing…zilch…nadda…squat. They’ve paid that guy probably, and this is a guess, upwards of $50M dollars throughout his career. Did he get paid while he was on the DL those many, MANY times? Damn straight he did. He barely through a pitch in ‘05 & ’06. Did he starve? Did his family go without? Hell no, they didn’t. Why? Because the checks just kept on coming. Now, if you wanna say “Wood is a good pitcher and worth $4M – $5M a year” (which he isn’t), go for it. Or, if you wanna play the “Icon” card (no comment), that’s fine, too. Saying the Cubs OWE Kerry Wood anything at all is totally and without a doubt the most ridiculous “reason” for re-signing him I’ve heard thus far.
Easy Ed - January 12, 2012
* through=threw
Easy Ed - January 12, 2012
This is one point on Kerry I will 100% agree with you on.
Claiming a team ever owes a player anything is kind of an odd sentiment. They are paid millions of dollars to play a game – If I was a player like Wood, I’d probably feel that I owed something to the team rather than the other way around. That’s very likely why he took that discount last year – maybe he feels that it’s all even now? Who knows, but I don’t see the Cubs owing him anything.
bdlugz - January 12, 2012
They don't OWE him anything. But they haven't exactly been cleaned out by him either.
During his arb years, he got 1.9, 3.6, and 6 million.
They gave him a 3 year deal once that paid 8, 9.5, and 12 million.
Then he made 1.7 and 4.2 as a reliever.
Then he got 1.5.
D98 - January 12, 2012
Jim Hendry gave Aaron Miles $5 million. And Neifi Perez $5 million.
We gave $5 million to EVERYBODY.
D98 - January 12, 2012
Something's wrong.
There hasn’t been a trade or signing or move by the front office in like 12 hours.
dtpollitt - January 12, 2012
My local ABC station
breathlessly reported that Matt Garza would not be traded by the Cubs this season, although honestly, I think the guy misunderstood what Theo said.
Garza is from Fresno, so pretty much everything he does is considered news by the local broadcasters, especially when there is not a lot of other things to talk about.
Josh Timmers - January 12, 2012
OT
you think Torreyes will be our future cornerstone at 2b?
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
I don't expect it
but there is a chance. He reminds me of Jose Altuve, and the odds are against guys like Altuve. Heck, the odds are still against Altuve. To be able to continue to hit at that kind of high average as he moves up the levels will be tough.
I actually think our future cornerstone second baseman is Starlin Castro. Maybe Marco Hernandez will take his place at shortstop. Or someone else.
Josh Timmers - January 12, 2012
The new username is bothering me, not gonna lie.
It’s gonna take some time.
dtpollitt - January 12, 2012
agreed.
shiver me timmersballhawk - January 12, 2012
I agree, and I don't know what bugs me about it, but it's weird.
bdlugz - January 12, 2012
Same here
And same as lugz too, it’s just weird to look at. I see “Josh Timmers” and I think “guy who I haven’t seen many posts from” and not “Oh, hey, Josh77, I care about what that guy says.”
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
It's like your friend who has a beard and then shaves it
You just keep noticing it.
So Josh, don’t shave your beard. That would be too much change to handle.
RiskyBusiness - January 12, 2012
kid K's
Vehicle seen outside Wrigley. hopefully it gets done today
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
Keep us updated.
And, for the love of God man, stay warm!
daver - January 12, 2012
ha
I wouldn’t stand there all day. I’m not the stakeout type. I’d pass out
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
Good news that his car is there, though.
Maybe he’ll be signed by the end of the day.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
he drives a range rover
with the plates 34. didn’t see that coming.
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
Oh.
That’s the car you saw? That’s not Wood’s car.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
then who's car
is that?
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
walter payton's
sanshokubento - January 12, 2012
Belongs to someone in the front office.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
well that's misleading
someone should put the fire out on twitter then.
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
Oh?
Hadn’t see that.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
Where on Twitter did you see this?
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
just tweeted
the bcb account with photo
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
What?
I did not tweet that.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
I think he's saying he tweeted it AT you.
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
I saw it and tweeted about it.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
Too soon
Easy Ed - January 12, 2012
That or he's taking all his bobbleheads with him!
RiskyBusiness - January 12, 2012
Is Wood under surveillance now?
Ummm…that’s sorta kinda creepy, ain’t it?
Helicopters hovering over head? Mysterious guys on street corners with super secret spy hearing aids in their ears, binoculars around their necks, speaking into their wristwatches. Black sedans with dark tinted windows eerily creeping by. Mission Impossible theme song playing in the distance. Really? Stop, before Wood files a stalking complaint.
Easy Ed - January 12, 2012
It's snowing here in Chicago
Per Mayor Emanuel, Wood is being followed by Streets and Sanitation snow plows
RiskyBusiness - January 12, 2012
Just how it goes in this day and age.
shoemile - January 12, 2012
WOOD WATCH DAY 34!
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
Catch some time on the rink
If I lived near the old North side ballyard, I’d be tearing up that ice 3-4 times a week.
blackhawk24 - January 12, 2012
Good thing. Not sure you'd want to be known as a Woody Stalker...
ballhawk - January 12, 2012
Worst ... trucker handle ... ever.
elgato - January 12, 2012
wow, this letter is the dumbest thing i've ever read
this is awful on so many levels. awful premise, awful execution, disgusting sentimentality that jim hendry definitely would’ve appreciated and responded to. if our excellent new baseball management team doesn’t feel like forking over 3 or 4 million/year to an aging, injury prone relief pitcher who has been part of way more losing than winning throughout his career here, i fully support it. let them do their damn job. this is unbelievable – i sometimes wonder whether some cub fans actually want a winning organization. if wood wants to be a cub, let him take the minimum. we paid him millions upon millions to sit on his ass for extended periods of time. we don’t owe him jack shit.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
"Part of way more losing than winning"?
Really now. This is the only man since World War II who has been on four Cubs playoff teams. Care to rephrase that?
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
why no, i don't care to rephrase that
why don’t you take a look at how many games the cubs won while wood was a cub vs. how many they lost. he was part of way more losing than winning. period. anything else?
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
well that's a poor way of looking at it
you could say that about ANY player on any team with a losing record.. Some aspects of the game are beyond any ONE players control
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
Exactly.
Four playoff appearances, and he was a key part of three of those teams.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
And further
… adding up the wins and losses of the Cubs teams Wood was a part of:
885 wins, 897 losses (this takes out 1999, when he missed the entire season)
If you also take out 2006 — when he made only four starts — the Cubs are 819-801 in the other years Wood was on the team.
It could be argued that his absence helped cause a couple of losing seasons.
NOW do you care to rephrase it?
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
pwnt
by TKO
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
nope, still don't
sorry, you’re grasping at straws. was he being paid in 1999? 2006? i bet he was making a LOT of money in 2006. he was part of more losing teams than winning teams. period. add to that the fact that he choked in the biggest game of his life. he’s a relic from losing years that i don’t care to remember. hell, i don’t even care to remember 2007 and 2008. i enjoy playoff wins.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
well with that logic
you hate everyone on the cubs because if you haven’t noticed we don’t win alot of playoff games( besides 03)
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
whoa
never said i hate anyone. but yeah, all things being equal i’d prefer to clear the slate of guys who have been part of the losing culture of the past. obviously you have to keep guys who are good values like castro and garza. they haven’t been around for very long anyway.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
and speaking '03
here’s another reason why i don’t need kerry wood around – it’s a constant reminder of the awful past.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
Oh good lord, it’s not like Kerry blew up a building. He played on a team that should have gone to the W.S. It was 9 years ago. It might be time to get over it.
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
NEVA!
jesus christos - January 12, 2012
Let.It.Go
RiskyBusiness - January 12, 2012
Really?
So when he gets through an 8th inning without problem, you’re going to think “Man, that would have been even better, IF NOT FOR 2003!!!”
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
so...
goodbye Castro? Barney? Are the minor-leaguers part of the losing culture?
drewishdrewid - January 12, 2012
were the minor leaguers on the team?
i make an exception for castro. i state that above. read before you type. barney’s an awful hitter whose bat doesn’t even play at SS. i don’t really even think about barney when i think about the past or the future. he just doesn’t register. he’s not good enough.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
he's the starting second baseman!!!
Are Minor Leaguers part of the Cubs organization or not?
drewishdrewid - January 13, 2012
Wait.
So just because he was being paid in 1999, he was associated with that losing team even though he didn’t play in a single game that year?
Sorry, not buying that.
Even if you include 2006, the record is almost at .500, not “a lot more losing than winning”, as you claim.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
hey ichiro
sucks because the mariners have lost more than they have won!
HE’S AWFUL. don’t give him a league average salary…
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
absolutely
why would a rebuilding team sign ichiro? wouldn’t make much sense.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
furthermore
the arguments i’ve heard in favor of keeping him around have to do with these vague notions of “character” and “leadership” and “being a good clubhouse” guy." if he were all of those things on consistently successful teams or if he had experience leading his team to a world series, i could understand those arguments a lot more. theo needs to be smart. not sentimental.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
once again
you cant put lack of winning on ONE individual. so clubhouse leaders mean nothing if you are on a losing team? So you are saying Kerry wood holds the same value to the cubs as Milton Bradley?
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
Right.
Hey, Milton Bradley played on a Cubs team with a winning record! Guess we should get him back, under those circumstances, right, John T. Unger?
Rigth?
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
*right
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
why
would a rebuilding team sign someone like Zach Greinke? he’s had more losing seasons with the royals than winning ones. he must be useless
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
eh
a rebuilding team would be foolish to invest a lot of money in someone like zach greinke. i don’t think you’re understanding my point. also, zach greinke is light years better than kerry wood.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
And light years more expensive.
elgato - January 12, 2012
but
your point is that wood has a losing record therefore he sucks. hence my greinke example proving you wrong.
also… are you high? who wouldn’t want to invest in greinke?
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
eh, the cubs wouldn't
that’s who. if he were a free agent right now, you think the cubs would be ponying up the cash for him? of course not. that’s my point. they’re rebuilding. so, to answer your two questions: none of your business whether i’m high or not. plenty of teams wouldn’t want greinke. he’s too expensive.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
you find
me a CY young winner that is going to come cheap. of course teams would pass on greinke. they cant afford it. just like most decent players. pirates royals come to mind. to say we wouldn’t go for grienke if available is foolish. easily better than half of our current starters. he’s a free agent next season barring extension so we will see if we bite.
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
we WOULDN'T go for him this offseason
is prince fielder better than our current options at 1B? yes, but we don’t want to pay him because we’re rebuilding and don’t intend to contend. my god you’re dense. next offseason is a completely different animal – there’s no telling at what point theo decides to start spending. i suppose it will depend in part on the performance of certain players this season. he’ll have to decide if we’re ready. but i don’t consider it a slam-dunk that we’d go after greinke (assuming the brewers haven’t signed him) next offseason either.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
yes
prince is better than our 1st basement currently, BUT that is because we settled on rizzo. why you ask? because prince is not worth the length he’s seeking. because he didn’t accept our offer it forced our hand in a different direction. so you can stop calling me dense and look at the big picture. I can almost assure you if greinke was a FA we would be bidding for him. we are rebuilding obviously but to say Theo is just not going to even engage in serious talks about fielder or any good player(for the right price)this season is foolish. in short theos plan was to possibly acquire fielder and darvish while rebuilding and we got neither. so now its a full on fire sale.
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
you keep making this a binary process
it’s not. This team would absolutely sign Fielder if they could come to an agreement. The problem isn’t that it’s Fielder, the problem is that he’s too expensive.
drewishdrewid - January 13, 2012
eh, by the way, greinke is considerably better than ANY of our current starters
by leaps and bounds
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
the man is a relic, nothing more, nothing less.
we’re supposed to give him more than he’s worth to a rebuilding team because, what, he wants to be a cub? hey! i want to be a cubs too! i’d like 5 million.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
A 'relic'?
Dude, he was good and healthy last year. This isn’t some 45-year-old who is trying a comeback.
elgato - January 12, 2012
I tried to form an opinion on the whole Wood thing
But I just don’t really care. I don’t think they should overpay him, and obviously I understand that he doesn’t want to be underpaid. But I can only get so worked up over a solid middle reliever with injury issues. This isn’t the Koyie Hill situation where a terrible player was given a raise. Maybe I’ll feel that way if Wood’s severely overpaid.
shoemile - January 12, 2012
I wouldn't recommend severely overpaying him.
But he clearly has value even to a rebuilding team.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
He definitely has value.
Or else the Cubs would have never entered negotiations in the first place. But how much is he worth? And how far away are both sides on the answer to that? Who knows.
shoemile - January 12, 2012
ill
say 3.5 with a club option. that would be ok by me
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
why waste the money?
we have some interesting young bullpen arms that could do similar work for the minimum. why waste the money when you know you’re not going to win?
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
We do?
Name those “interesting young bullpen arms” who would be blocked by Kerry Wood coming back.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
::: crickets :::
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
Chirp
I think signing Wood is important for those "interesting young bullpen arms". While coaching is very important, young players can also be aided by seeing a veteran put in the work, prepare for the game, and to talk with about game situations and hitters. Greg Maddux isn’t the only player to learn from.
Signing Wood to an “overslot” contract would not be unusual for a team in the Cubs current position.
RiskyBusiness - January 12, 2012
Exactly.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
hey listen smart-ass
some of us have to step away from our computers from time to time. i know you think you’re god’s gift and that we should wait around for the chance to respond to your pap. i hate myself enough for being engaged in this ridiculous conversation in the first place. the fact that i’m being ridiculed for taking more time than you deem appropriate to respond is almost more than i can bear.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
Nice.
I refuted your argument, and you didn’t answer my question, nor have you yet; instead, you’ve taken the opportunity to be more than nasty.
An apology would be appropriate here.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
read below
i did answer your question. might want to read before responding. thanks!
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
apology
dude, when you resort to such childish antics and then get put in your place, don’t expect to be apologized to.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
You will not be missed.
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
Reh?
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
You posted "Crickets"...
after 22 minutes. Pretty sarcastic and superior. Even if he is wrong.
Kansas25 - January 12, 2012
It was a joke.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
Lighten up, Francis
RiskyBusiness - January 12, 2012
You're calling Al a smart ass?!
elgato - January 12, 2012
pap?
elgato - January 12, 2012
yes, pap
i’ve noticed that most of the people posting at this site have awful vocabulary but before questioning my use of a word you might want to look it up. moron.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
It's clear you won't be around here for much longer
so before you go, I’ll just ask, is there a reason why you’re being so hostile?
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
one knobhead
deserves another.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
Wow, mature.
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
nice knowing ya.
drewishdrewid - January 13, 2012
Was it?
I’m not sure it was…
Arbusto - January 13, 2012
Let's look that up
pap [pap]
noun
1. soft food for infants or invalids, as bread soaked in water or milk.
2. an idea, talk, book, or the like, lacking substance or real value.
So aside from references to Al’s soft food for infants, I have to ask the following question:
You appear very hostile here and you think most of the people posting at this site have awful vocabulary. If both of these are true, why are you here? It’s apparent you do not like the people you are conversing with. So why are you coming back then?
RiskyBusiness - January 12, 2012
shark, carpenter, dolis, zych conceivably as soon as late this year
and i never said they’d be “blocked.” they can still get innings with wood around. my point is the money is a waste. it’s generally not a great idea to blow a huge chunk of change on a bullpen arm anyway. if that arm has major mileage on it, is prone to injuries and if the team is rebuilding, it seems like a particularly bad idea.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
It's not a waste of money
… to have a veteran around who can show those pitchers the ropes of how to be a MLB player.
BTW, Shark already has several years of MLB experience.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
no, it's not a waste of money
vets can be useful. leadership can be helpful. at the right price.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
the right price being anything 2 million or below
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
shark's not that young anymore
but he’s someone we’re already paying who can do wood’s job without us paying wood 4 million dollars.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
I don't think anyone wants the Shark mentoring young pitchers
He’s even confused about what he is, starter? reliever? just give me ball to throw at catcher.
unretrofied93 - January 12, 2012
i don't think he would mentor
i think he would do a serviceable job as a setup-man. we have a freaking pitching coach for christ’s sake! and there are plenty of “mentors” out there available for bargain-basement prices. i don’t want to pay 4 million for a mentor. come to think of it, i don’t want kerry wood mentoring my young pitchers anyway. he’s never been accused of having the prettiest, or the most consistent mechanics.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
Mechanics are only part of mentoring
It’s always important to have someone around who has “been there, done that” learn from their mistakes, maybe learn a new pitch, or a different variation of it. Even if the Shark does stay consistent, there’s still 2 holes in the bullpen now, and someone with Kerry’s experience, and talent would be a fine choice at the right price.
unretrofied93 - January 12, 2012
Why haven't you signed Kerry Wood yet?
TheoJed: “Because he’s asking for $4M and we can do more with that money spent elsewhere.”
Going further: “We are not into nostalgia, yes Kerry Wood meant a lot to the Cubs organization in the past, but we are looking forward.”
In closing: “We appreciate your concern about the Chicago Cubs and Kerry Wood. Thank you very much for the feedback and enjoy the snow today.”
blackhawk24 - January 12, 2012
I know you're being facetious...
…but those statements are very different from what Theo has stated publicly.
daver - January 12, 2012
Yes, I was - and I'm not good with that sarcasm button
However….I try not to listen to what GM’s & coaches say during interviews.
blackhawk24 - January 12, 2012
Theo does speak in code...
…so it’s hard to be certain of anything. But I believe just yesterday he explicitly stated that they want Woody back and “something is wrong” if they can’t find common ground on a deal.
daver - January 12, 2012
Theo and Jed are more frank after a transaction is complete
They’ll tell you their thought process and how it fits into their plan.
RiskyBusiness - January 12, 2012
Hey...OT here...
…been sitting here watching the snow blowing around out the window and for the first time this off-season, I started to get Spring Fever. So, I just sent off my $140 for my “15 Game Build It Yourself” ticket plan for the Peoria Chiefs. 2 things I thought of…How many games would $140 last me at Wrigley AND I’ll be able to see Kerry Wood (if he signs) on his rehab stint(s) for less than 10 bucks a game (wink wink : ) ). Seriously tho…I highly recommend a visit to O’Brien Field if ever in the Peoria area…you’ll be glad you did. A nice little ballpark AND decent grub and not all that expensive.
That sounded like a commercial…oh, well.
Easy Ed - January 12, 2012
wacky inflatable arm flailing tube man
and sunday Sunday SUNDAY would have sold me.
or a set of Hooters.
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
you paid 140 bucks for a 15 game peoria chiefs ticket plan?
i go to at least a few chiefs games every season and i don’t think i’ve ever paid more than 5 bucks for a ticket. maybe one time i paid like 8 bucks to sit right behind the seat. also, no need to get those ahead of time – there are usually about 6 people at the park.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
sorry......right behind the plate, not seat.
John T. Unger - January 12, 2012
cool story bro
santoswoodenlegs - January 12, 2012
I'm gonna save that epic story
for my next family get together. I hope they like it!!!
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
I think the real question is..
What could we better spend that 4 mil on? I know it sounds silly but realistically without Marshall now our bullpen is sub par. With the lack of the relievers in the market, would theo really be ready to turn to the young arms? IMO Kerry is more than just a middle reliever to this team anyway
LongLiveHarryCaray - January 12, 2012 via mobile
$4 mil could be spent on mold abatement
and just cleaner food storage. I know I would appreciate not feeling like I was rolling the dice with staph from buying a hotdog.
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
$4 million won't do much to black slime.
You’re gonna need to double that just to make a dent.
daver - January 12, 2012
I've been tempted to google "black slime"
but I’m still afraid to do so.
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
Not all of us get State Welfare to build a Bacardi Club
RiskyBusiness - January 13, 2012
Don't worry, the fleecing that will eventually happen now that Rahm is in charge will
make the $7milliion for the Bacardi club (and the initial cost of the Cell itself) look like chump change. The difference being at the end of the day (or the 25 year lease,) the Taxpayers still own the Cell and the restaurant, not the Ricketts.
South Side Expat - January 13, 2012
Let's stick with what we know now
And what we know is that taxpayers paid for the Bacardi Club and that Reinsdorf keeps all the profits. Sounds like a southside welfare program to me.
RiskyBusiness - January 13, 2012
What we know already is what Ricketts has already tried to pull off.
If you think he just put that idea away permanently, You are just as crazy as the folks who would cancel their season tickets based on not signing Wood. Getting public funding to remodel Wrigley so they can use their own hundreds of millions for the triangle building is the end game for the Ricketts. The price tag for the taxpayer is gonna end up being laughable compared to the entire cost down on 35th street.
South Side Expat - January 13, 2012
That is a possibilty but it is not a fact
A fact is taxpayers paid for the Bacardi Club and that Reinsdorf keeps all the profits.
And I don’t care about any Kerry Wood impact on season ticket holders. Especially since Wood has left once before and season tickets did fine. I have no idea why anyone would even mention a ridiculous idea like that.
RiskyBusiness - January 13, 2012
So effin what? What the hell are you arguing here?
South Side Expat - January 13, 2012
That you walk in and yap about repairing Wrigley Field
when you get State Welfare to build a bar. Hypocritical.
RiskyBusiness - January 13, 2012
Wow, you missed the point entirely.
Not surprising, but still.
South Side Expat - January 13, 2012
Trying not to be snarky comment-
Anyone who would base their decision to go or not to go to a game based on the possibility to see one relief pitcher is kinda insane, no matter who that pitcher is. If you are that fickle of a fan, you are in for a rough few years as this team pulls its head outa its Hendry induced behind. Yes, Kerry Wood means a lot to you. But if TheoJed is gonna do what you need them to do, lines have to be drawn. Maybe it is only a million here or a million there, I just can’t see how people can be so casual about a figure of even that “little.” A million bucks can go towards something improving that “dump” of a park.
South Side Expat - January 12, 2012
I was with you until the "dump" part
It really isn’t a dump of a park. It isn’t the fanciest or anything, but it isn’t a dump.
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
I was almost at the end of writing what I did when you replied just above me
about mold abatement. I put “dump” in quotes, cause to some it is, to others it isn’t, but calling it such and arguing about it is one of the things you do here.
South Side Expat - January 12, 2012
Capital budgets are separate from baseball budgets.
The point of spending this money on Kerry Wood is, in part, to buy goodwill from fans.
There are solid baseball reasons to do it, too; the goodwill is a bonus — and IMO is worth buying.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
They don’t have to be.
Nunyabidness - January 12, 2012
No, they don't.
But in the Cubs’ scheme, they are.
Al Yellon - January 12, 2012
What goodwill is really to be had, though?
People are going to buy tickets regardless if Wood is on the team or not. Maybe some, who could be a little too fickle, won’t, but by and large, the same tickets are going to keep being sold. If the team performs the same as it did last year, you’re going to see the same amount of no-shows. Re-signing Wood isn’t going to change that. If the team is doing well or is in the hunt, you’re going to see more people show up. This really isn’t a club that totally pissed all over its fanbase enough to need to re-sign Wood to make sure people care. Cubs fans paying to see the team or to see a win will still be there, people that go to get drunk will still be there, people that go because it’s Wrigley Field will still be there, tour busses will still fill up Sheffield, etc., etc. You’re going to find, away from here anyway, that Wood just doesn’t mean that much. He may to you, he may to Drew, and he may to some others, but in the grand scheme of things, it isn’t going to matter.
I don’t care if he comes back or not, but some of the reasons here for bringing him back nearly defy logic and reasoning.
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
As Al would say- This.
South Side Expat - January 12, 2012
like shoemile
posted near the top. fans don’t go ‘just to see wood’ (twss) they won’t go because of how management treats an easy situation for a franchise players. Being a Bengals fan(I know I know) mike brown our owner/GM/tool refuses simple requests and was a huge dbag about not getting rid or Carson Palmer. I think we had 140+ straight sellouts prior to that and after this season they struggled to sell. I know a TON of people who cancelled season tickets because he made poor unfavorable decisions. Cincinnati is not chicago as we love the cubs no matter, but just an example
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
And if hypothetical Cubs fan folks didn't cancel their season tickets already based on what Hendry did, but would do so now
based on not signing Kerry Wood, well, that is something that would make me say something derogatory about those Cubs fans. Cause that’s just dumb. You folks FINALLY have something to look forward to. Anyone who gives up now is gonna miss the best part if a WS ever happens.
South Side Expat - January 12, 2012
exactly
cooliogirl47 - January 12, 2012
if anything
hendry kept part of the fanbase by buying talent which finally ran out of gas last season when we busted. now there is nothing to look forward to this next season.. not just wood but Z and marshall…maybe after this season we see who is good but you can expect a whole lot of buzz in season 1 of a rebuild with no big marquee players(besides Garza and Castro)
If you had someone build you a new home and it took more than 2 years to build would you sit and watch the first year, or would you occupy your time elsewhere until the second year when large progress was made? its a poor analogy as it doesn’t take 2+ years but still. noone wants to see the beginning, they want to fast forward. marquee players help make the current somewhat enjoyable, while the building is in progress.
RIP Slim - January 13, 2012 via Android app
I really want to try to follow this.
But I can’t.
South Side Expat - January 13, 2012
and why not
?
RIP Slim - January 13, 2012 via Android app
Grammar.
South Side Expat - January 13, 2012
*cant expect alot of buzz
anything else?
RIP Slim - January 13, 2012 via Android app
I followed it perfectly fine
i think the cubs possibly benefit from being a premier market team. If anything, some people might get excited by a complete overhaul. A good analogy might be major league…the owner brought in an entirely new team of unknowns, rookies, and retreads to a cadre of insanely low expectations then by winning on the merit of scrappiness, the fans became more and more interested until reaching the playoffs at a fever pitch.
Of course, that was a movie. I think my point still stands. After a decade of poorly executed excess, a total rebuild by a perceived baseball wunderkind is really exciting but we still have low expectations for year 1 at least.
Another point of evidence towards that would be the overall mood of the blogosphere. People are for the most part cautiously optimistic. Sure there’s some sour grapes but someone’s gotta be this guy.
monkeybiz - January 13, 2012
to add on that
I’m not saying folks cancelled or would cancel because we don’t sign wood. its what we lost already(z Marshall and whoever else) and who we acquired that don’t make it an attractive product THIS SEASON. next season could be way different so my opinion is held to this season only. if we sign wood and somehow get rid of soriano I think that would help the casual base come back around
RIP Slim - January 13, 2012 via Android app
yeah, I'm gonna double down on wanting to follow this.
South Side Expat - January 13, 2012
Then I could say the same thing about sox fans
Who continually invoke the matra of “product on the field” as their decision to not but season tickets or any tickets at all. And they aren’t looking at a minor league field either for that product.
Fans of any team can be short-sighted, especially they are paying for season tickets. Essentially a futures purchase for their entertainment dollar.
RiskyBusiness - January 13, 2012
There is no ten year waiting list for Sox season tickets.
South Side Expat - January 13, 2012
And there never will be
RiskyBusiness - January 13, 2012
Your point being?
South Side Expat - January 13, 2012
What's yours?
You brought the season ticket waiting list, not me. And I don’t know why.
Your hypothetical on Cubs season ticket holders – or any season ticket holders – and their reasons for not renewing is absurd. There are so many other factors that it is preposterous to theorize on Kerry Wood, Jim Hendry, or angels on the head of a pin.
RiskyBusiness - January 13, 2012
Oh FFS. Butthurt much about something?
South Side Expat - January 13, 2012
^^ Response when you lose
Walk off, you’re done.
RiskyBusiness - January 13, 2012
Seeing as I'm not trying to "win", I guess you can feel good about yourself?
My comment that you initially responded to had absolutely nothing to do with the Sox, and furthermore was one of the few comments I’ve made here that others have agreed with. But not you. You just went off somewhere else. So, Yeah, enjoy the win. Surely the women and wealth will now follow.
South Side Expat - January 13, 2012
High $ for Wood not a good fit
I don’t think the Cubs should overpay Wood. He’s a serviceable reliever. Jed will just have to get a cheaper reliever for the bullpen if Wood signs elsewhere.
The Cubs are cutting player payroll for the second year in a row. Outsiders don’t know whether the total amount for the player payroll plus draft signings is more, the same, or less. Hard, real hard, to believe it’s more. Should Garza be traded, then there won’t be extra dollars spent on pitching depth either. If Wood represents something to the franchise outside of having the role of a reliever on a cheap team, then maybe they should add him to where payroll growth is being accommodated. They should hire him in some other capacity and add him to the front office payroll.
AboutTheCubs - January 12, 2012
David Ortiz
I see these two situations as very similar. Theo understands that sometimes fans are fickle
LongLiveHarryCaray - January 12, 2012 via mobile
isnt
Ortiz coming back?
RIP Slim - January 12, 2012 via Android app
My primary reason to believe Kerry is coming back
LongLiveHarryCaray - January 12, 2012 via mobile
My primary reason to believe Kerry is coming back
LongLiveHarryCaray - January 12, 2012 via mobile
Mike Lowell is a more apt comparisson
Craig in South Bend - January 12, 2012
Or Varitek.
D98 - January 12, 2012
Cespedes
First game in the Dominican league went 0-3 with 3 strikeouts. He ain’t ready for the majors.
karlitodj79 - January 12, 2012 via iPhone app
Holy crap. No major league player has ever gone 0-3 in one game that determines his entire value.
South Side Expat - January 12, 2012
no major leaguer
ever BEFORE you mean!!!!!!
drewishdrewid - January 13, 2012
sigh
My goodness I didn’t say he is done or can’t play! He, as in right now, is not ready to come to the MLB. Any team that gets him will be smart to let him play at least half a season at AAA. That’s what I’m saying.
karlitodj79 - January 13, 2012 via iPhone app
but based on
3 strikeouts he’s not fit for the majors? too small of a sample size to claim something that bold.
RIP Slim - January 13, 2012 via Android app
He has a hard time
with breaking stuff in the other batter’s box.
timh815 - January 13, 2012
In argumentation terms...
The problem isn’t the evidence (stats for one game) or even necessarily the conclusion (he might be better served spending time in the minors).
The former is fact and the latter is defensible.
But drawing a straight line from stats for one game to make that conclusion is not a strong position.
fsuapollo - January 13, 2012
Agree 100
bdlugz - January 13, 2012
Are we really going after Cespedes?
I saw we are on MLBTR. I really don’t know much about this kid and I’m not going to base an opinion off one winter league game. Is he someone that could actually benefit this team or does he fall under the category of overpaying for free agents
LongLiveHarryCaray - January 13, 2012 via mobile
you mentioned something on MLBTR...
please link the original source.
epsilon - January 13, 2012
Well, we're really going after him and Soler from what I've heard
But the Marlins seem like all but locks to get Cespedes. Their owner came out and said they’d offer money “almost the the point of stupidity, but not quite there.”
bdlugz - January 13, 2012
Ozzie's rubbing off on him already... ;-)
ballhawk - January 13, 2012
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/yoenis-cespedes-talks-free-agency.html
It doesn’t say much but here’s the link
LongLiveHarryCaray - January 13, 2012 via mobile
sorry, you're new here...
should check length of service time before i make snarky comments. when mentioning MLBTR you do not need to site the original source….
epsilon - January 13, 2012
Noted.
Getting bullied by the big kids at recess.. Seriously though- Cespedes could get the highest offer from Miami? the marlins think they can increase their payroll this much through increased ticket sales? They have to have another source of revenue right? Did they sign a broadcasting deal?
LongLiveHarryCaray - January 13, 2012 via mobile
Well, good call about him being announced at the convention.
Corny as hell, but good for him.
bdlugz - January 13, 2012
I didn't think it was corny
and can’t think of a better place to make the announcement than the Cubs Convention.
sue369 - January 13, 2012
I agree about the "corny as hell"...
…shoulda introduced the medical staff immediately afterwards. Not sure how much he cost…if more than 1 year @ $2.5M then Hoy/Stein dropped the ball. Was enjoying the show until then.
Easy Ed - January 13, 2012
Shut up.
bluemagic9 - January 14, 2012
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