30 years ago today, January 27, 1982, under new general manager Dallas Green, the Cubs and Phillies swapped veteran shortstops Larry Bowa and Ivan DeJesus.
DeJesus was coming off a miserable offensive season in the strike year of 1981 -- by far the worst of anyone with more than 400 PA in that shortened season (.509 OPS, and even for that lower-offense era, that was awful).
Bowa, at 35, hadn't been much better offensively and was getting old, but he had been Green's shortstop as Phillies manager for their 1980 World Series championship team, and Green liked Bowa's aggressiveness and leadership qualities.
There was a third player involved in that trade, a skinny 2B/SS who had put up middling numbers for Triple-A Oklahoma City in the Phillies organization, and coincidentally had registered his first major league hit against the Cubs at Wrigley Field on September 27, 1981.
I think you've probably heard of him.
0 recs | 81 comments
It’s also my friends 30th birthday and she says that was her birthday present. Her parents being huge Cub fans put the news about the trade in her baby book on things that happened that day.
puckishcubsfan - January 27, 2012
I remember that trade,
and was left scratching my head as to what Green was thinking in trading like for like.
But to point this out, I also felt that Green had an idea, and that he was building the team his way, knew the players he was bringing in, and more importantly, had a plan.
And we all know how that turned out, had the Trib cared about winning at the time, he very well could have stayed here, and we would have been celebrating a WS win by now, if not more.
But the talk on the radio back then,of this scrawny kid who, if I’m not mistaken, projected to only be a league average utility player, reminds me of some of the banter that goes on in this very forum in regards to some of the things Theo is doing.
My point, it’s the little things like this, that the right GM will be able to see, and bring into the org.
Theo very well could be the next Dallas Green, or he could be the next Ed Lynch, but I’m willing to take that chance and trust in his leadership if he can bring us another player with the passion, and the fire that Sandberg had, we’re in for a good future.
chrisw95 - January 27, 2012
Theo's actions so far are much more Green-like than Lynch-like.
Al Yellon - January 27, 2012
Agreed
I just chose the two opposite ends of the spectrum, I hope we never see another GM as Lynch was.
But I still laugh at how that trade worked out.
A good GM can spot a great player before he develops.
chrisw95 - January 27, 2012
Theo isn't Ed Lynch - he already has a track record that says he isn't
ClarkFan - January 27, 2012
Its funny how the consesus of all the scouts and GMs can be so wrong sometimes.
And it’s odd how some players never produce eye-popping numbers in the minors, and then suddenly mature and figure it out at the big league level.
SackMan - January 27, 2012
And vice versa.
Al Yellon - January 27, 2012
Sandberg was not some middling prospect.
I think that is a bit of revisionist history. This post lays it out pretty well.
http://www.thegoodphight.com/2012/1/19/2702301/the-ryne-sandberg-trade-as-bad-as-youve-always-heard
He put up very solid numbers as a shortstop in the minors and he was young for his level as well. There was no Baseball America back then to put out a Top 100 prospect list but Sandberg would have made it.
Now obviously the Phillies didn’t know what they had and Green did but Sandberg was a legit prospect.
rlpete - January 27, 2012
Sure, a legitimate prospect.
But I don’t think anyone would have said “Hall of Fame career” when looking at him in January 1982.
Al Yellon - January 27, 2012
Sandberg always had a good eye
but didn’t have the power numbers until he came to Chicago, and I don’t recall who it was who modified his swing, but it worked.
Not to say that his game was all power, but when you’ve got a hitter with a great eye for the zone, and then adds power, you’ve got a dangerous hitter.
chrisw95 - January 27, 2012
See below
Sandberg did slug .469 in AA. He showed some potential.
rlpete - January 27, 2012
Jim Frey modified Sandberg's swing
Great as a hitting coach. As a GM, not so much.
Shanghai Badger - January 27, 2012
The 1970's KC Royals were a temple of hitting technique
Frey probably picked up ideas from Charley Lau.
ClarkFan - January 27, 2012
I agree not HOF but
he was far from middling.
In AA at age 20, a line of .310 / .403 / .469 should have indicated to the Phillies that he was a good prospect. True the following year in AAA wasn’t as good but looking at those AA numbers as a 20 year old surprised me.
rlpete - January 27, 2012
I don't think this trade would have been made today.
As you stated above, there was no BA to rank, and certainly not the internet to have fans like us critique every move.
I still don’t know what the Phillies were thinking at the time, but Sandberg was really just a very good, OBP prospect when the Cubs got him. He developed far more than most expected.
chrisw95 - January 27, 2012
Agree with you.
Obviously no one expected he would develop to a HOF player but this trade was really bad even at the time. Sandberg would have likely been a B/B- prospect. His AA season was outstanding for a middle infielder and he was young for the league at 20 years old.
rlpete - January 27, 2012
Jesus Al, nobody seriously should ever "Hall of Fame career" about a baseball player after only 6 Major League AB's...
COME ON.
santoswoodenlegs - January 27, 2012
what he said...
…just not as loud.
ballhawk - January 27, 2012
It's too bad the Dallas Green era was so short lived in Chicago
Sandberg, Franco, and Samuel. Man, the Phillies were stocked.
SackMan - January 27, 2012
I know someone who grew up with him in Spokane. People thought he was more of a football prospect in high school.
puckishcubsfan - January 27, 2012
Would anyone want to speculate how this trade ranks on the positive side for the Cubs?
Best trade ever? Top 5? I mean when you get a future hall of fame player as a throw in I feel pretty good about that.
Bought my 1984 Sandberg throwback jersey on the Mitchell and Ness sale for $100. He was one of my favorite Cubs. I will wear it proudly!
mrcubsfan - January 27, 2012
I can't think of one in modern times that was so favorable ...
other than the Ramirez/Lofton trade.
elgato - January 27, 2012
Jenkins.
rlpete - January 27, 2012
True.
I guess I was thinking ‘modern’ as in my lifetime — so the past 30 years.
elgato - January 27, 2012
Hey now.
I guess I’m considered an antique because I was alive at that time?
rlpete - January 27, 2012
Hey.
I feel your pain.
Al Yellon - January 27, 2012
Ha, no.
I was just explaining my thinking.
elgato - January 27, 2012
Cubs also got Adolfo Phillips in that trade. 1967 was his only good season but there have
been so few good seasons by Cub centerfielders in my years of following the Cubs that I still remember it fondly.
the nth - January 27, 2012
Leo Durocher ruined Phillips.
Phillips was a sensitive guy. Durocher, um, wasn’t. Phillips got off to a bad start in ‘68, got benched, and didn’t hit much, but then, most players didn’t hit much that year.
By the start of the next year Phillips was so messed up he got exiled to Montreal.
I still think under a different manager he could have been a star.
Al Yellon - January 27, 2012
Just a guess
Mike Quade not who you were thinking of?
timh815 - January 27, 2012
Um
… no. Definitely not Quade.
Al Yellon - January 27, 2012
Yeah. I think I may have read that Phillips even ended up with ulcers.
No pressure at all when your manager is telling everyone you’re the next Willie Mays. Phillips also walked a good amount. Wish things had worked out differently.
the nth - January 27, 2012
He would also fall down play like he was injured when he would blow a catch.
He always miraculously recovered, though. He was a tease.
Bad Dogs - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Lou Brock
on the negative side.
Archie - January 27, 2012
You win some and you lose some
Archie - January 27, 2012
Well it easy to forget....
But Sammy Sosa for George Bell worked out OK for the Cubs.
Tingham - January 27, 2012
Especially since George Bell’s knees wouldn’t have allowed him to play in LF regularly.
puckishcubsfan - January 27, 2012
Sosa
That was quite favorable to us.
ForTheLoveOfBiitner - January 27, 2012
Choi for Lee
Worked pretty well for the Cubs.
AlaskaFan - January 27, 2012
I don't remember where I saw it...
But I recently saw a list of the 50 worst trades in baseball history (or something like that) I was pleasantly surprised to see the number that favored the Cubs, Jenkins, Sandberg, Sosa, and at least a couple of older ones (maybe from the 40’s?) all made the list. Really the only glaring bad trade it listed was Brock.
WGNstatic - January 27, 2012
I always thought it was interesting ...
that Sandberg took a couple years before he really became a star. His 1982 and 1983 seasons were decent, but nothing special. In fact, he regressed slightly in 1983.
I’m not old enough to have any memory of those seasons, but it’s odd for me to think there was a prolonged period of time when Ryne Sandberg wasn’t a star (or, at least, a fading star). I also wonder if, in this day and age, whether he would have been given basically three seasons to put it all together, and how he finally figured it out in 1984,
elgato - January 27, 2012
Really makes you wonder what Castro's future as a hitter will become.
He’s raking major league pitching at such a young age. So much growing up to do.
SackMan - January 27, 2012
Sandberg credits Jim Frey with helping him develop the power he did after 1983.
Al Yellon - January 27, 2012
Thanks Al
I was just struggling to remember who it was that changed his approach to bring in the power above.
I guess that’s part of getting old, that and actually remembering that trade WHEN it happened. lol
chrisw95 - January 27, 2012
Sandberg's stats are interesting to look over.
He had a couple of meh-ish years (‘86 and ’88), but everything other year between ’84 and ’92 was really good, especially for a second baseman. I haven’t looked back on his career numbers since (probably) his HOF acceptance.
Makes you wonder how much longer he could have kept those numbers up if he hadn’t broken his hand in ST in ‘93. I know he retired in ’94 partly for personal reasons, but he clearly wasn’t the same player after that injury. Given what the broken hand did to Derrek Lee for a couple years — and how Lee was able to rebound in 2009 …
Also, Sandberg was a very patient hitter. His .344 OBP is impressive, especially when you throw out the seasons after he returned from retirement.
elgato - January 27, 2012
I wouldn't characterize him as very patient
His career OBP was the function of a plus hit tool and average patience.
boubucarow - January 27, 2012
Hmmm.
Could you elaborate on that? I’m not arguing. But I am curious.
elgato - January 27, 2012
Sandberg
had an ability to put the ball in play.
Not to compare them, because I don’t see any comparison at all, but Vitters has a similar hit tool, just less patience.
I would say, Sandbergs ability to make contact, would rank up there with Vladimir Guerrero, however, he also had more patience.
I hope I’m answering the question.
I think boubucarow was saying that his ability to hit, and to make contact, overcompensated for a great many mistakes when swinging at pitches.
chrisw95 - January 27, 2012
We might be on the same page actually
Looking at the numbers he had a slightly below average walk rate the majority of his first 5 seasons before increasing his walk rate to slightly above average during his late career power surge.
I would say by the numbers and from what I recalled as I grew up watching him that he wasn’t as much a patient hitter but rather selectively aggressive. It may just be semantics and we have the same opinion.
He wasn’t a Vlad type hitter but he surely wasn’t a very patient hitter like Carlos Pena. He didn’t take pitches just to work the pitcher. He took pitches to find the one he wanted to hack at and improved in that skill in his late peak.
boubucarow - January 27, 2012
I think we are saying the same thing
I was just trying to relate his hitting ability / ability to make contact, to someone more recent.
He was able to make contact the way Vlad was, but not the same type of hitter.
So yes, I think we’re saying the same thing, just in a different fashion.
chrisw95 - January 27, 2012
What I always end up focusing on when looking at Ryno's stats...
His offensive numbers dipped massively during what should have been his peak seasons. From the ages of 26 to 28 (1986-88) he put up 98, 111, and 108 in OPS+. His OPS+ was 130 or greater from 84-85 and 89-92.
boubucarow - January 27, 2012
Wasn't there an injury in there?
elgato - January 27, 2012
Too young to remember...
My first memory as a Cub fans was the Sandberg Game when I was 6. I have no clue right now why that dip occurred. I really first noticed it when messing with Out of the Park baseball taking over the 1985 Cubs and attempting to build around Ryno.
It would be interesting to find out if there was a specific reason. He is in the Hall so there isn’t much to concern himself with. But if he put up peak numbers in his prime, his number would have had a nice bump.
boubucarow - January 27, 2012
I'm going to defer this to those who know more about the issue
but put in what I know anyway.
If I’m not mistaken, and I may have my years wrong, he was having some personal issues at home, that affected his performance on the field.
His initial retirement, was a result of his feeling he wasn’t able to give all to the game, and to focus on home issues. shortly thereafter.
Eventually, he and his first wife divorced, and he returned to baseball sh
Anyone who has been through a divorce, knows that this can wreak havoc in every aspect of ones life.
For him to recognize that he wasn’t able to be “into the game” as he was, and to walk away in his prime like that, took a real competitor.
And someone I’m really pleased to say I was able to watch in his prime.
chrisw95 - January 27, 2012
If I was only
smart enough to know how to edit my post, but you all get my point.
chrisw95 - January 27, 2012
You're right about personal problems in '94.
Did the stuff (ahem) with Sandberg’s wife mess him up in ‘86-’88?
elgato - January 27, 2012
I wasn't sure what year it was that he had the "issues"
so I maybe totally wrong in assuming his regression in 86-88 was related.
Could have been pitchers learning how to pitch to him until he adjusted, or it could have been overall regression.
Either way, I would be thrilled if we had a second baseman with his skills right now, even with the regression.
chrisw95 - January 27, 2012
There was the whole Dave Martinez/Palmeiro thing in the '80s ...
and there was something a few years later, in ’94.
elgato - January 27, 2012
Sprained Right Ankle in 1987
Ryno missed 26 games in 1987 because of that ankle. Dunston was hurt at the same time. The Cubs had a less than stellar keystone combination of Paul Noce and Mike Brumley for a time.
memphiscub - January 27, 2012
Interesting.
He actually had a pretty decent ’87. He struggled more in ’86 and ’88.
elgato - January 27, 2012
My gracious, Paul Noce.
Grockcubs - January 27, 2012
Wrist injury on brush back pitch from . . .
Sorry, can’t remember, um, think he was a Giant.P
Bad Dogs - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Mike Jackson.
The guy always threw in and tight, even in spring training games in which Ryno got hit in.
Grockcubs - January 27, 2012
Thanks. That's the guy.
Bad Dogs - January 28, 2012 via mobile
Whitet Herzog said after the imfamous "Sandberg Game"...
…“that kid’s a future Hall of Famer”. I thought he was being sarcastic and a bit edgy to reporters, but, he nailed it.
Easy Ed - January 27, 2012
*Whitey
Easy Ed - January 27, 2012
Herzog was sarcastic after that game. I remember him calling Sandberg another Babe Ruth.
the nth - January 27, 2012
20th pick of the 20th round
A surprising career after being the 511th pick in 1978.
RiskyBusiness - January 27, 2012
He was a two-sport star
He signed a letter of intent to play QB at Washington State. There is a very good chance he dropped in the draft because of it. Who knows when he might have been picked otherwise?
boubucarow - January 27, 2012
That seems like a pretty far drop
But a lot of baseball drafting don’t make sense when you look back at them.
1978 First rounder: Kirk Gibson, easy to understand when you back back at his career.
1st pick of the 2nd round: Matt Sinatro, former Cubs coach and lost driver for Lou Piniella
22nd pick of the 2nd round: Cal Ripken, Jr.
RiskyBusiness - January 27, 2012
Baseball drafting is really tough
In the NBA/NFL, you ask, can this kid help us the next three years? That is rough.
In baseball, it’s more, ‘Given five years, can we teach this kid to be productive? Will he be willing to learn?’
timh815 - January 27, 2012
Even then, he was a 20-20 guy...
ballhawk - January 27, 2012
Trillo and Schmidt In Way of Sandberg in Philadelphia?
Well, we all know Mike Schmidt was a Hall of Famer at third. Trillo wasn’t any Hall of Famer, but he was still a good second baseman for the Phillies. The Phillies had decided that Sandberg wasn’t going to be a MLB shortstop. They were right about that. The Phillies must have thought that Sandberg wasn’t the guy to replace Schmidt at third or Trillo at second. They figured that Rick Schu would supplant Schmidt at third and that Juan Samuel would take over at second. Samuel worked out better than Schu.
memphiscub - January 27, 2012
...
santoswoodenlegs - January 27, 2012
My diary entry for that day
I can’t believe they traded one of my favorite players for some guy named Sandwich or something and a 200 year old Larry Bowa. Boy was this stupid!
puckishcubsfan - January 27, 2012
Credit Herman Franks with setting the whole thing up back in '79...
…when he shipped Manny Trillo and Greg Gross to the Phillies for a load of spare parts, including the immortal Jerry Martin, who later that year so infuriated Herman that he quit as Cubs manager/GM. Anyway, according to the referenced article on the Phillies blog, Sandberg was deemed expendable in ‘82 not only because he wasn’t a major league-caliber shortstop, but also because Trillo was considered a fixture at second base.
Also, we may be able to thank our old friend Pete Rose for contributing to this deal with his selfish pursuit of Cobb’s record while remaining in the National League. That quote from Juan Samuel that indicated the Phils planned to move Schmidt to first and play Ryno at third makes sense, until you realize Philadelphia likely was stuck with Rose at first through ’83 – where else could they play Pete by that point in his career?
Even as late as the ‘83 Series, Rose made a stink over being replaced at first by Tony Perez, with Howard Cosell and the rest of Pete’s media friends ridiculing the Phillies for the move. Somehow, I don’t think Pete would have gone quietly at the beginning of ’82 to, in effect, make room for Ryno.
ernaga - January 27, 2012
Bob Kennedy was the GM at the time and engineered that trade.
Franks was only the field manager and, as it turned out, living on borrowed time.
Also, I always heard that Franks had issues with Buckner (everybody seemed to have problems with Martin except, possibly, the bartenders on Rush Street).
bluekoolaide - January 27, 2012
sometimes,
I really like this site. :)
timh815 - January 27, 2012
It's been reported that Franks was the guy stationed by Durocher in the centerfield clubhouse at the
Polo Grounds who stole the sign that led to Bobby Thomson’s pennant winning homer.
the nth - January 27, 2012
Martin also was arrested
with Willie Mays Aikens trying to purchase cocaine.
Grockcubs - January 27, 2012
makes me want to reread ryno's "second to home ."
walterj - January 27, 2012
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