they can make it happen. Pay nearly all Fonzie’s salary and he’s all theirs. That’s not walk on water, that’s shear desperation. Getting another team to pay a notable amount, say 50-60% is walk on water.
Doing something commensurate with the Z-move (only 17%, assuming option doesn’t vest) is only a marginal cost cutter.
He has value, the problem is that it's not the $18M he's getting paid.
He still hits 20-some homers and 80-some RBI, and he’s still above-average offensively, but I don’t know what position he could possibly play anymore besides DH.
He strikes out a ton, and couldn’t even get on base at a .300 rate. His defense and baserunning are also non existent. Really the only good thing he can do reasonably decent is hit HR. But I guess if there’s one place a guy like that could work it would be in the seven hole as a DH for an AL team. Hopefully somebody thinks that’s worth about four or five million.
…before midnight, this would be one of the banner days in recent Cubs history—-a sign of things turning around. Addition by subtraction. Some scoff at the notion, but I believe it has merit. – TL
that he has a good personality, some leadership traits, especially with the latino players and all that, but it’s a cancer eating at the entire franchise to have a player paid so much yet provide so little for so long, past, present and future.
For three years now, the front office have used his salary (among a few others) as reasoning why they don’t have the budget to field an optimal team. That can’t be good for his teammates’ morale to know the necessary improvements aren’t coming and the team still has impetus to play Soriano who openly refuses to make adjustments to compensate for his declining skills and increasing fragility.
I’ve always felt that anything that 5-6 million for Soriano would make hm very desirable to an AL team.
I will say as an aside in comment to an above post, I’ve never understood the notion of permission to eat a contract. Gee, I have permission to spend less for a crummy player than what the owner expected to this season. Do GMs really need permission for this sort of thing?
this is how expensive it is to clean house, any kind of company
Ridding an organization of unproductive liabilities costs money, (though in this case it is money already spent), having someone pay $4-5-6M so one could put an incrementally more productive person in place is actually an add.
The question will be if dumping Soriano (and getting some equal WAR in a younger player) then bringing up RJax at $400K+ is a big plus.
If he does go, and Byrd goes, and Soto goes, what does this lineup look like.
Stewart, LeHair, BJax (I am guessing), DDJ, Barney, Castro, LF??, Wellington? I love the house getting cleaned, but who is left?
I doubt both Soriano and Byrd would be traded unless they were acquiring another outfielder, like Cespedes.
And I doubt Soto gets traded. His value is lower now. If he bounces back he may be shopped at the deadline, but I don’t think he’ll be traded in the offseason.
But I also could see Lake making a dark horse splash in ST and beating out Barney for the starting 2B spot and then being a Blouser like platoon at SS and 2B.
Cubs are going to be a different team, more aggressive, better fielding (at least try) and they are going to build from the mound out.
Some people didn’t learn with Colvin. Players who strike out a lot and don’t walk very rarely succeed. Lake can go to Boston for Theo as far as I’m concerned. I have no confidence that Lake will amount to anything.
I’m not sure how he is compared to Blauser who actually walked quite a bit.
is why we have not signed any free agents of significant salary, despite the money coming off the books. Maybe Ricketts and Theo decided that rather than have another 130 mil payroll, they would have a 90 mil payroll and eat 40 mil worth of bad contracts. Then next year they would have essentially a clean slate, a better minor league system, and a lot of money to throw around.
It’s not a bad idea. The only thing a little odd is that they keep going after starting pitching, and starting pitching is the one area the next free agent class is strong. We still don’t have any hitting and the prospects next off-season don’t look too promising.
They are in cleaning house mode. As for starting pitching, in addition to never having enough, they don’t really have much. Z is gone, Wells is a question mark, Dempster will be gone. Yes, the 2013 class is good but they they need more than that.
I think this season the focus is on depth, while next will be the big ace.
right now we go Garza, Demps, Wood, and some combo of Wells/Volstad/Shark/McNutt/ Cash/Maholm if hes signed. which to me is a lot better then RoLo/Doug Davis/Ramon Ortiz. so they are getting some depth and are better prepared for the inevitable injury. next year they can look at the ace.
But if Theo and co want to wait until June, some combo of Sappelt/Johnson/Campana for a couple months to replace a traded Byrd or Soriano is fine by me.
@Ken_Rosenthal
Ken Rosenthal
#Cubs had couple of inquiries on Soriano, but no match. Plenty of other RH bats on FA market: Vlad, Ludwick, Magglio, Cody Ross, etc. #MLB
Since he’s not really a similar player. If you’re looking for a DH, you’re not dialing up Cody Ross. That doesn’t mean he has no value… just a different role.
If Jed/Theo can make this happen I will start to believe they can walk on water.
ubercubsfan - January 4, 2012
Of course...
they can make it happen. Pay nearly all Fonzie’s salary and he’s all theirs. That’s not walk on water, that’s shear desperation. Getting another team to pay a notable amount, say 50-60% is walk on water.
Doing something commensurate with the Z-move (only 17%, assuming option doesn’t vest) is only a marginal cost cutter.
blackhawk24 - January 5, 2012
He has value, the problem is that it's not the $18M he's getting paid.
He still hits 20-some homers and 80-some RBI, and he’s still above-average offensively, but I don’t know what position he could possibly play anymore besides DH.
dtpollitt - January 4, 2012
I'm not sure how attractive he is offensively.
He strikes out a ton, and couldn’t even get on base at a .300 rate. His defense and baserunning are also non existent. Really the only good thing he can do reasonably decent is hit HR. But I guess if there’s one place a guy like that could work it would be in the seven hole as a DH for an AL team. Hopefully somebody thinks that’s worth about four or five million.
Dcr18 - January 4, 2012
It looks like Theo and Jed do have the authority to eat some contracts.
After tonight, I believe it. And if eating some of Soriano’s contract makes the Cubs better (defensively) and younger, I’m betting we’ll see it.
This has to happen. He’s not going to be better this year than he was last year, and ballplayers usually hit a precipitous decline in their 30’s.
MN exile - January 4, 2012
...
jesus christos - January 4, 2012
If only this could happen...
…before midnight, this would be one of the banner days in recent Cubs history—-a sign of things turning around. Addition by subtraction. Some scoff at the notion, but I believe it has merit. – TL
timlacy - January 4, 2012
All the best Cubs outfielders are traded to Baltimore
Sosa, Pie, Patterson.
Let the Tradition continue.
RiskyBusiness - January 4, 2012
Just the very best.
jameslcrockett - January 4, 2012
Let's throw in Jake Fox on a technicality.
daver - January 5, 2012
Technical Balk!
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
IMHO if Cubs are able to dump Soriano
the locker room will be increase wins by factor of 5 even with less talent.
Ivy Walls - January 4, 2012
Was Soriano bad in the clubhouse?
I hadn’t heard that. Or is that comment just a result of you generally demonizing him?
pb5689 - January 4, 2012
No, he's not
Everything that’s been reported is that he’s a great clubhouse presence.
Josh Timmers - January 4, 2012
Criticize him all you want.
But he’s known for being a good teammate. People may not like him as a baseball player, but by all accounts he seems to be a nice human being.
Dcr18 - January 4, 2012
I'll agree with others...
that he has a good personality, some leadership traits, especially with the latino players and all that, but it’s a cancer eating at the entire franchise to have a player paid so much yet provide so little for so long, past, present and future.
For three years now, the front office have used his salary (among a few others) as reasoning why they don’t have the budget to field an optimal team. That can’t be good for his teammates’ morale to know the necessary improvements aren’t coming and the team still has impetus to play Soriano who openly refuses to make adjustments to compensate for his declining skills and increasing fragility.
jameslcrockett - January 5, 2012
The failure to adjust is the most galling thing
Soriano still seems to assume he is 25. I think he could be a much more productive player than he is, but…..
ClarkFan - January 5, 2012
Edited this to provide the link to the specific tweet
… instead of just Ofman’s general Twitter feed.
Also, in future if you are posting a tweet like this, use the “link” tab on the fanshot posting window — links better.
Regarding Soriano, we can only hope someone will take him, even if the Cubs have to eat 2/3 of the contract.
Al Yellon - January 4, 2012
Paying Soriano $12M a season to NOT play here is awful.
But paying him the full amount TO play here is worse.
fsuapollo - January 4, 2012
He provided under $6m in WAR last year
So 2/3 of his contract sounds about right. That WAR will likely continue to go down, while his salary does not.
madcow256 - January 4, 2012
Well at least the salary isn't going up....
so we got that goin for us.
Dcr18 - January 4, 2012
which is nice.
SouthWabashSoul - January 4, 2012
shhhhhh
other GMs may read here!!
Hammer - January 4, 2012
Funny that you mention that...
I’ve always felt that anything that 5-6 million for Soriano would make hm very desirable to an AL team.
I will say as an aside in comment to an above post, I’ve never understood the notion of permission to eat a contract. Gee, I have permission to spend less for a crummy player than what the owner expected to this season. Do GMs really need permission for this sort of thing?
Damen Jackson - January 5, 2012
Well
… since the owner is the one who gives the GM the budget, I’d say that yes, the GM would have to have approval to simply spend money on nothing.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Exactly.
Al Yellon - January 4, 2012
this is how expensive it is to clean house, any kind of company
Ridding an organization of unproductive liabilities costs money, (though in this case it is money already spent), having someone pay $4-5-6M so one could put an incrementally more productive person in place is actually an add.
The question will be if dumping Soriano (and getting some equal WAR in a younger player) then bringing up RJax at $400K+ is a big plus.
Ivy Walls - January 5, 2012
green'd
especially the last two years
Hammer - January 4, 2012
Exactly
Ihatethecards - January 5, 2012
And therein lies our problem.
daver - January 5, 2012
So......
If he does go, and Byrd goes, and Soto goes, what does this lineup look like.
Stewart, LeHair, BJax (I am guessing), DDJ, Barney, Castro, LF??, Wellington? I love the house getting cleaned, but who is left?
louslovechild - January 4, 2012
I doubt both Soriano and Byrd would be traded unless they were acquiring another outfielder, like Cespedes.
And I doubt Soto gets traded. His value is lower now. If he bounces back he may be shopped at the deadline, but I don’t think he’ll be traded in the offseason.
Dcr18 - January 4, 2012
Cespedes would be a good move
But I also could see Lake making a dark horse splash in ST and beating out Barney for the starting 2B spot and then being a Blouser like platoon at SS and 2B.
Cubs are going to be a different team, more aggressive, better fielding (at least try) and they are going to build from the mound out.
Ivy Walls - January 5, 2012
i think Lake is overrated
i don’t think hes near ready.
MDavis - January 5, 2012
I wonder again if Lake could wind up as compensation for Theo.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
or as a secondary piece in a Rizzo deal?
MDavis - January 5, 2012
Maybe.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
I second that.
Some people didn’t learn with Colvin. Players who strike out a lot and don’t walk very rarely succeed. Lake can go to Boston for Theo as far as I’m concerned. I have no confidence that Lake will amount to anything.
I’m not sure how he is compared to Blauser who actually walked quite a bit.
rlpete - January 5, 2012
I actually like Lake, especially if he can play a solid 2B.
But he needs at least a full year at AA/AAA
Dcr18 - January 5, 2012
Lake is more than a year away.
He’s incredibly raw still.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
unless he's forced into action due to the Castro allegations.
still not ready, but sometimes that doesnt matter.
MDavis - January 6, 2012
are we sure they're talking Alfonso and NOT Rafael?
Cubbie-Tim - January 4, 2012
I wonder if this
is why we have not signed any free agents of significant salary, despite the money coming off the books. Maybe Ricketts and Theo decided that rather than have another 130 mil payroll, they would have a 90 mil payroll and eat 40 mil worth of bad contracts. Then next year they would have essentially a clean slate, a better minor league system, and a lot of money to throw around.
It’s not a bad idea. The only thing a little odd is that they keep going after starting pitching, and starting pitching is the one area the next free agent class is strong. We still don’t have any hitting and the prospects next off-season don’t look too promising.
tomas21 - January 5, 2012
You can never have too much starting pitching
And if you do have a surplus, you can always trade them for missing pieces (once that time comes of course).
RynoHoF - January 5, 2012
I agree with your conclusion.
They are in cleaning house mode. As for starting pitching, in addition to never having enough, they don’t really have much. Z is gone, Wells is a question mark, Dempster will be gone. Yes, the 2013 class is good but they they need more than that.
rlpete - January 5, 2012
I think this season the focus is on depth, while next will be the big ace.
right now we go Garza, Demps, Wood, and some combo of Wells/Volstad/Shark/McNutt/ Cash/Maholm if hes signed. which to me is a lot better then RoLo/Doug Davis/Ramon Ortiz. so they are getting some depth and are better prepared for the inevitable injury. next year they can look at the ace.
MDavis - January 5, 2012
Byrd in left, Jackson in center, DeJesus in right
And suddenly the Cubs would have one of their best outfields in years.
subtle - January 5, 2012
Defensive outfields...
still cant hit for anything, but nothings getting dropped….
epsilon - January 5, 2012
...
Removing Soriano has that effect on an outfield.
CubFan90 - January 5, 2012
Hoping for a Zambrano-like deal
lookingdeadred - January 5, 2012
So who will be a more valuable player over the next three years?
Soriano or Sappelt?
And by valuable, I mean on-the-field production, not bang for the buck.
cubzfan - January 5, 2012
I don't think those are the two to be compared.
i think its more of a Soriano or Jackson comparison. Sappelt is a 4th guy. Jackson, i believe, is more likely to be the guy to replace Sori.
MDavis - January 5, 2012
I'd be all for giving Sappelt some serious PT unti BJax was called up
I think he’s Marlon Byrd. Bill James has him projected for a line of .300/.349/.425. With his good OF defense, that’s a 3 Win player.
RynoRooter - January 5, 2012
for some reason i have this gut feeling that they feel pretty good about getting Cespedes or Soler.
i’m not sure why, but i just do.
MDavis - January 5, 2012
Doubt either of them starts right away anyway.
Soler is likely late 2013 at best.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
I think with the $ dished Cespedes way, he'll start right away.
MDavis - January 5, 2012
No way on Soler.
But I can’t imagine a team spending that much on Cespedes and starting him at AAA, especially on a team like the Cubs if he were to sign here.
Dcr18 - January 5, 2012
oh i agree, thats why i was sayin Cespedes
youre not going to pay him $50-$60 mil unless hes plugged in the middle of your line up opening day.
MDavis - January 6, 2012
I'd like to see BJax out of ST.
But if Theo and co want to wait until June, some combo of Sappelt/Johnson/Campana for a couple months to replace a traded Byrd or Soriano is fine by me.
Dcr18 - January 5, 2012
I think BJax still has some things to work on in AAA
I’m okay with him coming up to start, but I don’t see the need to rush him up at this point.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
Well, it's somewhat hypothetical
but I do think it is a valid comparison, especially if Soriano continues to decline. I’m honestly wondering what people think.
cubzfan - January 5, 2012
Rosenthal has this to say:
JOVE23 - January 5, 2012
I'd pull Ross's name off that list.
Since he’s not really a similar player. If you’re looking for a DH, you’re not dialing up Cody Ross. That doesn’t mean he has no value… just a different role.
fsuapollo - January 5, 2012
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