Carlos Zambrano of the Chicago Cubs argues with home plate umpire Mark Carlson after a play at the plate with Zambrano and Nyjer Morgan of the Pittsburgh Pirates at Wrigley Field in Chicago, Illinois. The Cubs defeated the Pirates 5-2. (Photo by Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images)
Despite what I've written here many times about Carlos Zambrano and my feeling that the Cubs should have gotten rid of him, I really do wish he could have been a Cub for his entire career, and that I could write, about eight years from now, that he'd be retiring as the greatest pitcher in Cubs history.
That's what Big Z's promise always was, tantalizingly so, as he'd be dominant for stretches (as he was after he returned from his 2010 exile to the bullpen and stay on the restricted list. Or the excitement he brought to a Miller Park full of Cubs fans (myself included) when he threw his no-hitter in Milwaukee against the Astros in 2008.
But too many times, I had to write about yet another Zambrano cataclysm, subsequent apology and promise never to do it again (even at one point citing his own kids as a reason he wouldn't). That would inevitably be followed by yet another incident that resulted in Cubs fans having to learn what the restricted list and the disqualified list are -- lists that are very rarely used for major league players. And so instead of remembering his pitching first and foremost, one of the primary images we are left with to remember him by is the one shown in the photo above -- Z yelling at an umpire in anger, veins bulging in his neck.
It's sad that a man with this much talent and clear passion for baseball and winning could not harness that into his on-field performance instead of the sideshows. I have no doubt that when Z told Theo Epstein in their lunch meeting last fall that he wanted to retire as a Cub, that he meant it.
But the reason Big Z was traded to the Marlins (pending, of course, physicals) for Chris Volstad, a young pitcher with a mediocre record but (we hope) upside, with the Cubs eating most of the $18 million owed, is summed up perfectly by David Kaplan at CSNChicago.com:
Several players have confirmed to me that Zambrano would have to change dramatically to be welcomed back on the team because of the number of incidents that he has had during his Cubs career, many of which alienated his teammates. As one Cubs veteran told me recently, "if this was a one time thing we would welcome him back and do all we could to make it work. However, this is the fifth or sixth time he has had an incident and at some point you have to cut ties and move on."
That's really it in the proverbial nutshell. Zambrano had multiple last chances and blew all of them. And with new management, Z no longer had the backing of Jim Hendry, who was responsible for signing him out of Venezuela when he was farm director in 1997, and who was the only big league GM he ever knew; Hendry was fired a week after Z's meltdown in Atlanta. New management has clearly wanted to make a break from the past in many ways, and this trade seemed inevitable even with Theo's statement that Z could work his way back to the team.
"Fifth or sixth time"? Let us count the ways.
The multiple incidents seem to have gotten worse as time went on.
Here's the game thread from June 1, 2007, the game when Z and Michael Barrett fought in the dugout and clubhouse. Check out some of the comments in that thread after the fighting was revealed.
In the recap to that game, I called Z's antics "indefensible":
Lou said in his postgame news conference that both players were "sent home", and that the club would "deal with it" on Saturday, and further, that there had been more fighting between the two after they had been sent to the clubhouse.
Well, that's not enough. I know much of the brass is in Arizona getting ready for next week's draft, but Jim Hendry's not leaving for Mesa until Monday.
Jim -- if you're reading this, it's time to make a bold move, time to shake things up, time to tell every single player and coach on this ballclub that "business as usual" (and five losses in a row is NOT good business, is it?) will not be tolerated.
Please disregard the fact that I suggested the Cubs should trade Z for Aaron Heilman and Mike Pelfrey, although Pelfrey might have been a useful addition. The next day, I repeated my call to trade Zambrano:
More info: the comments made by Carlos Zambrano on the Score today (regarding some "family problems" he had had over the last couple of weeks) confirm some information I had heard a while back, but did not want to post here because it was uncorroborated. And frankly, I am sorry that Z has had this sort of trouble (supposedly, something regarding his brother in Venezuela, with whom he is very close) -- but you simply cannot bring this sort of thing to the ballpark, or indeed, extrapolating this, NO ONE should bring these sorts of troubles to their workplace, if it is going to affect their work. Both Zambrano and Barrett were fined for yesterday's outburst, but not suspended -- frankly, the team can't afford to suspend them. But I do think, despite this from the above-linked article:Zambrano and Barrett have expiring contracts, and both emphasized their loyalty to the organization. When asked if he wants to remain a Cub, Zambrano said, "Of course." Barrett added: "I love this organization from top to bottom."
... that Jim Hendry must, must, MUST begin to investigate trading both of them, and sooner rather than later.
Hendry did part of that, at least; Barrett was sent to the Padres just a couple of weeks later. Z remained. He was great the rest of 2007, and of course, threw the no-hitter in 2008 -- only to get hit hard in the start after the no-hitter, and showing up his manager:
Carlos Zambrano, coming off his no-hitter, started throwing a "no-outer", letting the first four batters reach base and then giving up a grand slam to Adam Kennedy. In so doing, Kennedy doubled his HR total to date this season in over 300 at-bats. It was wind-aided, but it didn't matter. Z was just as bad in the second inning, allowing two more hits and eventually three more runs (one of which scored after Sean Marshall relieved him), and Lou was, according to his remarks at the postgame news conference, irritated with Z for leaving the mound before he came to get him; Lou told him to go back there, and I think that's the least you can do to show some respect to your manager.
On May 27, 2009 -- that's when the argument shown in the photo at the top of this post took place -- Z was ejected after arguing a close call at the plate (replays showed Z was probably wrong) and I wrote this in the game recap:
But really, Z -- it's time to grow up. You will be 28 years old on Monday. Your ranting and raving today is probably going to cost you a start -- replays clearly showed contact between you and plate umpire Mark Carlson, although it also appeared that Carlson deliberately advanced toward Z, almost as if he wanted to make contact himself so as to get another suspension to his credit -- and then, your histrionics in throwing the ball almost to the LF wall and your glove toward the dugout has to worry your manager. After throwing 114 pitches, you heave the ball 300 feet? Better have your shoulder looked at, too.
Did he grow up after that? No, it got worse the following year, when Z and Derrek Lee had words in the dugout at the Cell after Zambrano apparently thought D-Lee didn't make enough effort going after a hard shot down the 1B line:
I was thinking all the way home about exactly how to approach Carlos Zambrano's tantrum -- and that's what it was, stomping around the dugout like a four-year-old who had his baseball taken away -- apparently because he didn't feel Derrek Lee either tried hard enough to stop Juan Pierre's ground ball double down the line leading off the game, or didn't argue that it was foul (it looked fair to me, and I was sitting directly down the RF line in the outfield; just saw the replay and that also confirmed it was a fair ball).
Z tossed a Gatorade cooler around during the incident; Lou Piniella took him out of the game after just one inning and sent him home; as he left the Cell, there was an occurrence tweeted by Carrie Muskat:
#Cubs Carlos Zambrano has reportedly left US Cellular but not without shouting obscenities at Chicago TV camera crews
Zambrano was subsequently suspended by the team and got sent to anger management counseling followed by a trip to the restricted list. That inspired me to write this post about "passion and fire" in baseball:
Though the Cubs have looked, many times this year, like a team that can't hit, can't pitch and can't field, I have no doubt that they care. Throwing a tantrum in the dugout and screaming and yelling at one of the most respected players in the game doesn't indicate "fire", it indicates that you have psychological problems that need to be addressed, and better addressed, perhaps, in another zip code.
And finally, there was Z's walkout on the team and "retirement" after getting hit hard and throwing at Chipper Jones in Atlanta last August. In my recap of that game, I wound up recapping all the posts I've linked above:
When he's had his past meltdowns, I've said his behavior was "indefensible" and the Cubs should trade him immediately (June 2007), that his antics were "childish" and he needed to "grow up" (May 2009) and that he "had to go" after an "epic meltdown" (June 2010).
Now, it's just sad. Sad that a pitcher with the talent that Big Z has can't harness that and focus on the job he has to do, sad that he'd run out on his team, sad that his obvious passion for winning has resulted in him taking actions detrimental to both himself and his teammates.
Sadness was the overwhelming emotion at the time for me, which brings me back to how I began this post. It is truly sad that Carlos Zambrano couldn't have been one of the most beloved Cubs of all time, among fans, writers, broadcasters, management and his teammates. There's no question that he was, and is, what broadcasters call a "competitor" -- he competed, and hard, and for lack of a better word, with passion. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to control his emotions, too many times.
And so he moves on, and he and Marlins manager Ozzie Guillen are close friends -- in fact, there was some controversy when Z and Ozzie had a pre-planned dinner out on the day he was ejected at the Cell in 2010. Maybe Ozzie can keep under control what no one associated with the Cubs could.
I wish Carlos Zambrano well. Since the Cubs' last pennant in 1945, only four pitchers -- Fergie Jenkins (347), Rick Reuschel (343), Greg Maddux (298) and Bob Rush (292) have started more games in a Cubs uniform than Z (282). Instead of finishing his career as a conquering hero in Chicago, perhaps leading the Cubs to that elusive World Series title, he'll be pitching for one year, not more (since his contract likely expires after 2012 unless he satisfies conditions for vesting his 2013 option that he's unlikely to meet) in the garish new multicolored cap and jersey of the Marlins.
It's just sad. Good luck, Z, except when you're facing the Cubs.
1 recs | 775 comments
And TheoTed's last words to Z were
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQwjojvRNI4
blackhawk24 - January 5, 2012
Of course, what I meant in the title was TheoJed
blackhawk24 - January 5, 2012
To sift through 1000 comments in the other thread...
Or to actually work this morning….
Fark work.
Arbusto - January 5, 2012
I won't miss the Zambrano sideshow
But good luck to him nonetheless.
AussieCub - January 5, 2012
Didn't get to chime in yesterday on this. Like the move!
Was always intrigued by Volstad every time we faced him, mainly because he’s so tall. Still time for him to realize his potential. Wish we didn;t have to pick up $15 of Z’s tab, but I guess that’s the reality.
SackMan - January 5, 2012
So right now, Cubs have 3 or 4 starters for 2013
Garza, Wood, Volstad, and Cashner (if he returns to the rotation). That’s progress.
SackMan - January 5, 2012
Randy Wells.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
I'd like to not count Wells... he's regressed. I don't want him part of our rotation.
SackMan - January 5, 2012
He's at least as good as Volstad.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
I also think it's a bit premature to say he's regressed
He clearly came back early from injury last year and he improved throughout the season. He still wasn’t coming down to his career average, but he was on his way.
I do wonder what losing Maddux may mean for Wells, though. I seem to remember on more than one occasion Wells speaking with Maddux on what to change when he’s on the mound.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
He shouldn't realistically be viewed as anything more than 4/5 starter.
And he has regressed every year. Hopefully, the Cubs either:
1. Trade Garza to acquire two more potential starters, and sign one of the very good pitchers in the 2013 FA market.
2. Keep Garza, and still sign one of the very good pitchers in the 2013 FA market.
SackMan - January 5, 2012
Regressed every year?
His xFIP in 2009 was 4.18, in 2010 it was 3.94, and in the second half of 2011 it was right in the low 4’s.
Most of his peripherals have been pretty stable as well. His poor results in 2010 were largely luck based (elevated BABIP) and once he was actually healthy last year he pitched really well.
Wreckard - January 5, 2012
Thank you for posting the statistics I didn't have time to find
I knew this evidence was out there and it’s good to see it in the open. Wells should have a better year this season, barring injury.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
He was rushed back from his injury
The second half of the year, he was pretty much the same pitcher he’s always been. At that level he’s certainly better than Volstad, and probably Wood as well.
Wreckard - January 5, 2012
Plus, I think he's a FA after 2012
SackMan - January 5, 2012
Wells is not FA eligible until 2015.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Yep, you're right. Arb in 2012.
SackMan - January 5, 2012
My prediction
is Wells is the compensation for Theo. Either to SD or Boston.
tomas21 - January 5, 2012
Doubt it.
It’s been pretty much established that it won’t be a major league player.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
At this point
I think all previous statements have to be thrown out. It’s been 2 months without resolution, I’m guessing anything could happen.
tomas21 - January 5, 2012
Maybe.
But I cannot imagine it being a major league player.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Or really anyone of real value.
Wreckard - January 5, 2012
When the Cubs
… sent Hector Trinidad to the Twins in 1994 in exchange for signing Andy MacPhail, Trinidad was considered one of the Cubs’ better pitching prospects.
He was 20 years old and had just completed a pretty solid season at Daytona.
He never pitched in the major leagues (or higher than Double-A).
So the Cubs could give up someone perceived to have “real value” now, but who might turn out to be nothing of consequence.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Or vice versa.
Perceived no value now, turns out to be amazing.
Arbusto - January 5, 2012
There is a joke in the about how many "major league players" the Cubs really have....
ClarkFan - January 5, 2012
Dempster
mikeschieve - January 5, 2012
Dempster's contract expires after 2012
SackMan - January 5, 2012
Great images flashed before me when I read "Wood"
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
Did i miss something
what about Dempster?
lshaffer_69 - January 5, 2012
You missed the year listed as 2013.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
we can hope to bring back Zambrano as a FA next off season
/sarcasm
Cubbie-Tim - January 5, 2012
Hopefully
he passes the physical, but what about the mental?
Cubbinstrongsince86 - January 5, 2012
What?
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
No doubt a reference
to both a physical and mental exam…
jeffstorm2 - January 5, 2012
Let's not lose sight of...
how great of a Cub Carlos Zambrano was. His career winning % is .607 – better than Fergie (.559) and better than Maddux (.543). A .607 winnig percentage translates to 98 wins a year over a 162 game stretch. Carlos won a lot of baseball games for the Cubs. It’s a shame that a lot of (incredibly stupid and short-sighted) fans will never remember that and instead choose to focus on the handful of incidents.
kanderber - January 5, 2012 via mobile
I'll miss Z
Not his antics.
It’s a bittersweet move.
Arbusto - January 5, 2012
Amen.
Oh so rec’d.
He reminds me, in a lot of ways, of my younger brother.
The_Rock - January 5, 2012
Winning percentage for starting pitchers means less now than ever.
… due to the small number of complete games thrown in modern baseball.
Carlos Zambrano had nine CG in 282 starts.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Winning % certainly means something.
The fact is, Carlos’s winning percentage is better than two legendary Cubs pitchers. And it’s better by a wide margin.
But go ahead and try to discredit it again, and spend time looking at the bad for some pointless reason.
kanderber - January 5, 2012 via mobile
What good is his winning percentage moving forward?
Or more importantly, what good is having that winning percentage when you have to risk a pitcher like that being suspended for multiple starts each year. I mean, awesome, he’s won games. That’s super cool and all, until he winds up on the restricted list.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
It's not about looking forward...
it’s about looking back. I thought that was pretty clear.
kanderber - January 5, 2012 via mobile
Dude.
Zambrano discredited himself.
elgato - January 5, 2012
Why does winning % mean something for a pitcher who completed 3% of his starts?
Jenkins completed 44% of his Cub starts.
Maddux completed 16% of his Cub starts.
One is in the Hall of Fame, the other headed there.
Now please explain why “winning percentage” makes Zambrano better than those two pitchers, please.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Zambrano also hasn't won more than 11 games in a season ...
since 2008 and more than 14 since 2007. I know wins are a somewhat meaningless stat, but if we’re talking about winning percentage …
elgato - January 5, 2012
Exactly.
Cherry picking one stat (win %) and saying that therefore Z was “better” than Jenkins or Maddux, doesn’t work for me.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Ugh
Refing comprehension isn’t working for people on BCB this morning, I see.
Nowhere did I say he was “better.” What a stupid thing to infer. Since you’re so hellbent on writing a long narrative documenting Z’s “failures” I just posted something reminding people of how GOOD he was. The point of a baseball game is to win it, right? Well, Z won more often than those other two. You can demonize him all you’d like, just try not to lose sight of the fact (yes, fact) that he was very, very successful as a Chicago Cub.
kanderber - January 5, 2012 via mobile
I hear ya
Z did a lot of great things as Cub as well as being a complete ass at times. No reason to forget the good stuff
El Borto - January 5, 2012
Sure wish he would've held the Marlins in check in Game 1 of the 2003 NLCS...
EalyEagle - January 5, 2012
I wish he would have pitched in relief in Game 7
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
"Demonize"?
Hmm. Speaking of “reading comprehension”, I wonder how many times you missed that I wrote that it was “sad” that this all happened this way, that I had hoped Z would become the greatest pitcher in team history, etc.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
I guess spelling isn't working all that well either
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Seriously guy?
I’m typing this from my cell phone from a hospital surgery recovery room, so pardon me if I make a typo you douche bag.
kanderber - January 5, 2012 via iPhone app
KNOCK OFF THE NAMECALLING
Hope you’re doing well after surgery.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Now that's a reaction Big Z could relate to!!
Hammer - January 5, 2012
Hahahaha
rec’d
Archie - January 5, 2012
Wow.
daver - January 5, 2012
I think we've found Jim Hendry...
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
Seriously guy?
You’re basically calling other people stupid, but we’re supposed to give you a pass?
Alright
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
ND sucked this year.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
I warned you.
Multiple times.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
They were still better than the record you said they would have
but I didn’t think Rees would be that bad at times. I’m looking forward to the QBs Kelly scouted.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
They were, though that's because I overestimated some of their opponents
That schedule was a cake walk, outside of four games. And Notre Dame was 1-3 in those four games.
How they managed to beat down Michigan State I’ll never know
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
They didn't turn the ball over a dozen times
What happened with Nebraska? I’m sure the rest of the B10 is happy considering their season.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Bo Pelini is not a good head coach
And he’s done nothing but hire his buddies as assistants.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Huh, hiring buddies as assistants
sounds familiar
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
LOLWUT?
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
What part confused you?
kanderber - January 5, 2012
You're so silly
I’m glad you’re taking the time from whatever recovery room you’re at to post on here.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
You have a problem...
with where I post?
And Christ, I responded to your post from 6 hours ago just now and you already replied? Step away from BCB for a few minutes, pal.
kanderber - January 5, 2012
You're the one who apparently wants to act like a dick, without repercussions because of where you are
just sayin
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Never change bro
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Winning percentage means
Zambrano had better teammates than Jenkins and Maddux did, at least most of the time.
Josh Timmers - January 5, 2012
Or better luck...
Who knows how many games he left trailing that his team tied the game or took the lead? Who knows how many games Maddux pitched into the 8th and lost 1-0?
There are pitchers who give up 6 runs and get a win, and pitchers who give up 1 run and take the loss.
I know that’s what you meant, Josh, and this isn’t directed at you, simply pointing out it’s more than even “better teammates.”
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
OK
I agree with you.
Josh Timmers - January 5, 2012
Also
I think Fergie lost about 10 or 12, 1-0 games in his career. I think one year he lost like 4 1-0 games. Comparing Z to Maddux and Jenkins is a joke.
Grockcubs - January 5, 2012
Stats like individual pitching wins
Are almost meaningless these days. So too is batting average.
Zambrano may have won a lot, but I’ll remember him more for his off-field antics.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 5, 2012
you mean acts of visible passion and fire?
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
His greatness
as a Cub was outweighed by his temper tantrums, fights with teammates and his disruption on the bench. The Cubs gave his ample opportunity for him to turn things around.
DebT - January 5, 2012
This.
Jenkins, Maddux, and Reuschel never had any such strange, sad, bizarre outbursts.
I’m a bit too young to recall Rush (I like still being able to say I’m “too young” in any context – it’s been a while!) though I can’t imagine anyone in that era doing Zambrano-like things and having much of a career.
There’s a point in any relationship, be it business or personal, where you either accept that things will never get better and resign yourself to long-term misery, or you accept that things will never get better, and you take steps to end it and move on. Theo and Jed made the right move here. Hendry, obviously, never really had it in him to do that.
MN exile - January 5, 2012
Rick Reuschel
is perhaps the most underrated pitcher of all time.
He had a better career ERA+ than Nolan Ryan. He wasn’t a strikeout pitcher, but he did record over 2000 strikeouts in his career.
If he and Jim Palmer were traded for each other and Reuschel had Baltimore’s defense behind him and Palmer had the Cubs defense, we’d be taking about Reuschel as a hall of famer and about how underrated Jim Palmer was.
Josh Timmers - January 5, 2012
If Reuschel hadn't been injured
… he could have come close to 300 wins. He’s a borderline Hall of Famer even with the numbers he did have. He’s got a couple of Hall of Famers in his top 10 comps.
He was also a good hitter and baserunner and an outstanding bunter.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
The pride of Camp Point, Ill.
Rick didn’t look like much, but he could pitch. It was particularly fun when the Cubs had him and his brother Paul on staff at the same time.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 5, 2012
He never got any Hall consideration
Getting a grand total of two votes in the one year he was on the ballot. I’m OK with him not in the Hall of Fame, but he’s better than several pitchers who are in there. But most voters just looked at him and thought how bad he looked in jeans. (semi-joke.)
Today, people would realize what a good pitcher he was. Back in the 1970s, all they could look at was his W-L record and that he didn’t strike out a ton of batters. But he was one of the best right-handed control pitchers around.
Josh Timmers - January 5, 2012
And he was used up by 2008....
Worked a lot of hard innings from age 22 to 26 and missed his first time in 2008. Hasn’t really been the same since.
ClarkFan - January 5, 2012
hey
we agree.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
You're comparing Z
To FERGIE and MADDOG ??
Wow !!!
blackhawk24 - January 5, 2012
look at the numbers.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
I did
They fail.
blackhawk24 - January 9, 2012
Yes, I'm comparing...
one great Cubs pitcher to two others. Why is that so hard for you to fathom?
Some of you people need to just look at the freaking numbers. Carlos Zambrano was a great pitcher for the Cubs. I’m not saying that he was better than Maddux and/or Fergie, because he wasn’t. But for people to get so up in arms about a conversation involving all three seems really silly.
kanderber - January 5, 2012
Good pitcher, not great.
5 postseasons starts, no wins. 1.48 Whip in the postseason. No 20 win season, high win season of 18, has walked 4.1 batters per 9. Great pitcher, far from it.
Z was a good pitcher, who could of been great. He blew it.
Grockcubs - January 5, 2012
Grockcubs answered well enough
Why is that difficult for you to fathom?
But to add: Fergie and Maddog both exhibited control in their pitching – and I’m not talking about emotional control, which obviously both of them did well – they pitched with control where Z while he had great stuff at times, was very wild.
blackhawk24 - January 9, 2012
Any plans for a column recounting some of Z's greatest pitched games, including the no-hitter?
I was hoping the concept of “equal time” would come into play here but I’m guessing not. Seems like it’s more fun to rehash all his blowups instead.
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
Because the blowups are the likely reason he's being traded.
Maybe I’ll do the “greatest games” thing later.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Maybe? IMHO you should definitely do this, for the sake of presenting a balanced point of view
rather than the one-sided, negative view of Z you are portraying with this post
magicblue - January 5, 2012
Other than the good stretch at the end of 2010 ...
when the Cubs were hopelessly out of the race, when was Zambrano’s last “greatest game”? The no-hitter?
I guess his 2010 start against Lincecum in San Francisco was very good, but the simple fact is that there have been far more blowups in the past three seasons than there were highlights.
elgato - January 5, 2012
This site is for me expressing my opinions.
I don’t have to present a “balanced point of view”.
I might, but it’s my choice alone. If you want to write one yourself, you are welcome to.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Well, I (and apparently several other people on this site) believe you should do something like that
Z had a lot of very excellent performances in his 11 year tenure with the Cubs, it wasn’t all bad.
In fact, the good far outweight the bad. But get your kicks on negatively, whatever floats your boat!
magicblue - January 5, 2012
I respectfully disagree.
I think if the good really outweighed the bad he’d still be on the team.
katie casey - January 5, 2012
I agree with that.
However, I also agree with those who think I should make a “positive” post.
So I will. Soon.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Al
You aren’t a reporter or a news anchor, you don’t need to be balanced if you don’t want to. I would say you are more of a columnist, who is here to offer your thoughts and opinions, and generate conversation. I don’t think you should let people bully you into writing anything you dot want to write.
tomas21 - January 5, 2012
Thank you.
However, in doing a retrospective of Z’s Cubs career, it would be remiss of me to not remember the good stuff. His no-hitter, for example, is one of my personal favorite baseball memories of all time.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
You did mention and link the no-hitter above.
katie casey - January 5, 2012
I don't think you have to worry about that, tomas...
I may give him a lot of shit sometimes, but the next time I see Al getting bullied into doing something will be the first time.
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
How can you have watched the last 3 years and have a balanced point of view?
The one-sided, negative view of Z that is cited in this post is the player that he has become. It’s also the player that got traded. Which if I’m not mistaken is what this post is about.
I enjoyed watching Z in his early days as much as anyone. He’s been an embarrassment to the organization and the sport of baseball in general for the last 3 years. I don’t understand the need to eulogize a clubhouse cancer that everyone agreed needed to be moved.
9isEnough - January 5, 2012
This
DebT - January 5, 2012
I didn't know how to react to this trade till I read this,
I think Z will tear it up in Florida, something he could not have done if he stayed here. This trade will end up being good for us and good for Z.
cooliogirl47 - January 5, 2012
I agree, Coolio
To me it’s a wash. Z’s vital stats going forward will match what Volstad has posted so far and may very well continue to put up. The only difference is the scenery for both, which might be what each pitcher needs to be more successful.
Incidentally how worried should I be about Volstad’s tendencies to give up the home run?
EalyEagle - January 5, 2012
maybe someone right now on the Marlins blog is saying the same thing
about Volstad….that he’ll be awesome in Chicago :)
cooliogirl47 - January 5, 2012
The SBN Marlins blog FishStripes
… has two posts about this deal. Combined, they have (at the time of this comment) 24 comments.
Our two posts have over 1250 comments.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
So are comments considered content?
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
Are you considered a troll?
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
Here, yes.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
If you're only here to troll
… I am going to ask you to leave.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
It's been my experience that someone who is considered a troll in one place
is considered a troll in more than one place
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Well, your experience would not apply to me in the case
of SBN sites. Well, maybe on Baseball Nation, cause I call Al out on things when he writes about the White Sox there, too.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
It's also my experience that trolls tend to claim they aren't trolls
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Well, it's been my experience on this board
that you make fun of Al more than I ever have, so theres that.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
Yeah, I'm not a fan of Al's
I do like the site.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
I also never read or comment on his Baseball Nation articles
which you’ve already said you go out of your way to do.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Only the ones about the White Sox.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
I'm just gonna end this, because I've already become more invested
in this than I ever want to be when it comes to a conversation with you, but …you’re a troll. Plain and simple.
The end
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Cool.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
You don't seem to grasp the difference between...
disagreeing and making fun of. One is acceptable, the other makes you immature.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
Oh, I grasp the difference.
And I guess that just makes me immature. I’m okay with this.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
Is there absolutely any reason to keep this guy around any longer?
He’s stated his case. Show him the door.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
I think the issue is that lately, that's all you've done.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
I wasn't going to respond here, but I will respond to you, bdlugz.
Yes.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Awwwww, poor Al.
The funny thing is there are so many more people here who “troll” you much worse than I ever do. Look at all the people who rag on you for your opinion on tweets, debunking, etc. So I’ve made a few comments here in the past few days that make a little fun of you. Guess what? You are the top dog here, and it’s no different than when you rag on other sports writers. The thing is, I don’t stoop to the level of many of the folks in even this thread, wherein I make it easy for you to boot me for violating one of your rules (not that you ever do, despite how many times you tell people to knock off the namecalling, etc.)
Most of the time I jump in when the White Sox are mentioned, that’s true. And I get that you and everyone elses reactions to what I say are greater because I’m a Sox fan. Regardless, when you write things that I find nicely ironic, I will call you on it, and I do so in a manner that violates none of your board rules. That’s the beauty of SBNation sites. You don’t like it, fine, ban me, and look like a hypocrite.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
Where some of us may criticize some of what Al writes
you’re openly admitting to making fun of him. If you don’t understand the difference, or see why this is an issue, then I suggest growing up or exercising a little maturity.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
And if you don't think that so many posters here
do the exact same thing when they make comments, you are delusional. I’m mature enough to admit that I’m light heartedly poking fun of him at times. That’s what the internet is for. I’ve NEVER been meanspirited in the manner that folks in this very thread are being towards each other.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
"That's what the internet is for"
are you from 4chan?
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
lol!
Emelie - January 5, 2012
What's 4chan? You need to link to stuff if you're going to make claims like this.
santoswoodenlegs - January 5, 2012
I asked a question
Had I stated he was from 4chan, I would have linked to a picture of pedobear or something.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Clearly Craig has been here long enough that he doesn't need to back up his claims.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Now, I'm going to ask you.
Just what is the difference between ANYTHING that I’ve written “trolling” Al, and this comment right here? It’s lightheartedly laughing at Al and the arguments he gets into with people around here.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
You're purposely being mean spirited, by your own admission
SWL isn’t. It’s also a matter of equity. If you see a group of friends busting each others balls, do you then join in and start talking crap to one of the people in the group?
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Please point to where I've admitted what I do is
is mean spirited?
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
All I need to quote is this
Making fun of someone is inherently mean spirited, and is bullying by nature. It’s also a poor reflection of your own self esteem and level of maturity.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
So I'm managing to bully a guy on his own blog.
Huh. Well, thanks for giving me way more power than I ever thought I had!
Hey Al, give me your lunch money!
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
You can act like a bully anywhere... location has nothing to do with it.
He also never said you were a successful bully.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
See what's tripping you up, is you apparently have a
very simple minded understanding of what “bullying” is.
Considering you’re simple minded, it’s not surprising
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
You should look up what a bully is
or what bullying is.
Here, I’ll make it easier. Stop being a dick.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Again, namecalling. Something
I’ve never stooped to here. Good stuff when making the argument you are trying to make about what I post.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
It's not namecalling
it’s describing a behavior. I’m done though, because you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing, and you’re never going to acknowledge that your behavior is detestable. Keep on truckin’.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Also, we could actually look something up-
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bully
I don’t think you want to admit what that would say about Al if you want to keep using that term.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
This is a public place
No different than a state beach or movie theater or highway. Therefore it would be in your best interests to conduct yourself courteously.
EalyEagle - January 5, 2012
This place is nothing like any of those.
First, it’s not a public place. It’s a website owned by SBN or whatever that media company is now. Second, You do not go to the movies or the highway or the beach to interact with others or comment on what they have written.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
Yes it is...
…and yes, you do.
EalyEagle - January 5, 2012
azjazzman's sole purpose in BCB is to be the biggest dick possible
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
The difference is between trolling and criticizing
You seem to be openly trying to get reactions and attention.
Whereas others like Nunya point out inconsistencies and possible hypocrisy.
Arbusto - January 5, 2012
Right.
I don’t always agree with Nunya — rarely, in fact — but he does make his points and backs them up with facts.
That’s very different from what SS Expat does.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
I wish you were less troll-ish and more of a
poster who could give us an unbiased, knowledgable, non-fan-of-the-Cubs point of view. It would be very interesting to get that kind of opinion from a fan of a different team.
cooliogirl47 - January 5, 2012
What's strange is that fans of other NL Central teams come here and do just that.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
At times, I try to give you the view of a Sox fan
and I try to do it in a manner that is without the “Cubs Hate.” Thats the best I can do.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
Can you point out where you've done this
I missed that one time.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
He's better than Crawdad at least.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
He seems identical to me
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
At least this dude admitted to trolling.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
have to respect that openness
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
I see no difference.
sue369 - January 5, 2012
I wonder if they're the same person.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 5, 2012
If you do an analysis of our grammatical
structure and syntax, you will find out that we are most certainly not the same.
I certainly wouldn’t make the same generalization of the BCB rescue brigade. Your posts are unique just as CubbieTim, Nunya, SWL’s and bdluqz’ are.
South Side Expat - January 6, 2012
Actually,
I was basing my comment more upon the mutual “I’m right and you’re wrong, holier than thou” approach both of you take.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 6, 2012
I'm not so sure other Sox fans want you representing them
kinda confirms our thoughts on them.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
when I talk with my WS friends, we try to talk to each other,
as fans of baseball, not fans of our respective teams….otherwise we get in trouble.
cooliogirl47 - January 5, 2012
i have yet to see this said post
can you please show me, it’s always possible i missed it
Cubbie-Tim - January 5, 2012
Why do you continue to feed the troll?
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
u and azjazzman should get a room together
…. a troll slumber party. lol
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
a Troll-A-Thon
Cubbie-Tim - January 5, 2012
Only if you can be the meat in our troll sandwich.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
stay classy
Cubbie-Tim - January 5, 2012
just ignore him...
his best friend in the world, whom he met online? or knows in real life somehow got the authority to ban people at SSS. this “mod” over there is a complete joke, and makes that site a farce.
many of the great posters that used to grace the pages of SSS have lost interest since this debacle. although jim can somewhat write, the way the changing of the guard went down left a bad taste in many people’s mouths.
now people like SSE are prominent posters desperately trying to get chuckles out of people. he reports everything you guys say back to (whomever cares over there)?
i would just ignore his pathetic attempts to get a rise out of people.
Where Triples Go to Die - January 9, 2012
invite drcrawdad
… then u can be in the middle where u like it .. a troll 3way
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
Keep trollin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3My4MHr51c
AussieCub - January 5, 2012
If Al decided to ban you... no one would worry if he was a hypocrite
And no one would lose sleep over it.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
Don't be so sure
Just last week my wife was shaking me awake and said I was screaming in my sleep. I asked what I was saying and she said
“BlueMike!!!!!”
Hammer - January 5, 2012
My condolences.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
HAHAHA!!!!
sue369 - January 5, 2012
Never said anyone would worry about it,
never said anyone would lost sleep over it. I’m sure none of you would care.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
Honestly
I enjoy a lot of the instigators.
Hammer - January 5, 2012
it livens the place up
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
The burden of being a content producer
Wreckard - January 5, 2012
/
i give you permission to go report this back to the lemmings.
Where Triples Go to Die - January 9, 2012
--
Hammer - January 5, 2012
If there were anyone on the Marlins blog
If a MLB team falls in the forest and no one is there to watch, does it make a sound?
ClarkFan - January 5, 2012
I didn’t realize Zambrano had only been on the Cubs for 3 years, last I checked his Cubs career started in 2000 and he was one of the better pitchers in the NL for the better part of the last decade.
So knock yourself out focusing on all the bad stuff that happened over the last 3 years, I’ll choose to look at his entire 11 year Cubs career and judge him as a player based on that.
Carlos Zambrano had an ERA of 3.60 and produced 31.3 WAR (2.84 WAR average over 11 years). Between 2003-2010 he produced an average of 3.7 WAR per season, which is worth almost $18.5M per year, better than any Cubs pitcher over that same time frame. He will go down as one of the best Cubs pitcher of all time.
Like I said, a lot of positive things to say about Z. I’ll miss him greatly, antics and all, he will also go down as one of my favorite Cubs players of all time. You could never accuse him of not hustling or not caring. He gave 110% each time he played and I have a lot of respect for that.
Flame away, I only ask that Cubs fans look at the totality of his Cubs career and not the last 3 years, that goes for ARam as well……
magicblue - January 5, 2012
zambrano from 2000-2008 isn't the same pitcher as zambrano from 2009-2011
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
who the f*ck cares, we're talking about his entire Cubs career, not his most recent 3 year sample
Focus on whatever piece of information you want to fit your preconceived notions of Zambrano’s ability. I care about his whole Cubs career, not just the last 3 years……
magicblue - January 5, 2012
alrighty then
you go do that
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
A lot of people care, including the Cubs FO.
Notice how he was traded?
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
I'm not sure
those are really comparable.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
wut?
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
how an organization decides
to trade a player is very different from how a fan looks at a player’s career.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
I really don't understand how Zambrano not being the same pitcher from 2009-2011
As he was from 2000-2008 isn’t comparable when discussing that change as a major reason he was traded. Obviously the Cubs FO cared that he had regressed massively – they traded him.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
of course.
but that doesn’t mean that fans shouldn’t look at his entire career when judging him.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Sure, but the sad fact is, the last 3 years of bad have outweighed the years of good.
If they didn’t, he wouldn’t have likely fallen out of favor with the fans or the FO.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
well, that's your opinion.
but it’s not mine. Then again, he never fell out of favor with me.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
I literally can't imagine what a player, coach or front office employee on the Chicago Cubs would have to do...
on or off the field…for them to “fall out of favor” with you.
santoswoodenlegs - January 5, 2012
play really badly.
I didn’t like Cedeno, or Hill, or Miles, for example.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
So being a douche carries no weight with you at all?
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
you call it being a douche
I call it being passionate about the game, and struggling with his emotions.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
This is awesome. I'm using the "I'm just passionate about this and struggling with my emotions" excuse from now on.
santoswoodenlegs - January 5, 2012
go for it.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
It works in court too!
shoemile - January 5, 2012
You will be fired from your job
In less than a week.
Say Ramrod - January 5, 2012
HE'S SHOWING PASSION
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
Thing is...
…there were already baseball bats in the dugout when Z demolished the Gatorade machine. You voluntarily brought in a bat to bash in the break room refrigerator so…I’m sure you can see the difference.
daver - January 5, 2012
ALWP
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
Why does Al keep throwing wild pitches?
BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness - January 6, 2012
If a good player repeatedly can't play because
he is either ejected, put on the disqualified list or doesn’t eat his bananas he falls out of favor with me.
katie casey - January 5, 2012
and how many times prior to the 30 day suspension
did that actually happen?
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Ejected and/or suspended?
More than enough.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
I'm not about to count them.
My point is that if he can’t play, he’s hurting the team and that is something I don’t care for.
I don’t remember at what point I gave up hoping he’d change and finally said “enough is enough” with Z. One thing I can say is that as strongly as I feel this is the best move for the team, I still like him and wish him well as a person. I truly believe the guy tried.
katie casey - January 5, 2012
Then you should dislike Zambrano...
Because he played really badly for the last two years.
And he behaved poorly on top of it. Mostly because he played badly.
That’s not passion, it’s immaturity.
BDR529 - January 5, 2012
Really, Drew? Really?
ಠ_ಠ
dtpollitt - January 5, 2012
really.
I’m allowed to have that opinion, you know.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
and the best part is, after you offer your opinion
we’re allowed to tell you why we think its silly
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
sure
but I’m not going to agree with you.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Where were you July 2010?
Or when he retired?
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 5, 2012
watching
and wanting him to do the right thing for him.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
2011 was the 1st year in Zambrano's career where he had an ERA above 4
Zambrano was actually a very good pitcher in 2009 (3.6 fWAR in 170 innings) and in 2010 (2.3 fWAR in 130 innings). The latter year also was a year where he was banished to the bullpen in one of the more stupid moves in recent Cubs history. Since fWAR is cumulative, without the bullpen move, Zambrano would have been right at 3 fWAR if he would have pitched 170 innings in 2010.
So all of this massive regression you are talking about the last 3 years? Where is it? Please, someone show me where this terrible pitcher was in 2009 and 2010? He was better those two years than he was in 2007-08. So all of this massive regression you speak of really just amounts to a poor 2011 season.
But, the popular position on BCB regarding Zambrano is that he’s been a terrible pitcher for a while now and there is really nothing anybody who cares to look at the numbers objectively can really do to change that perception……
And to be quite frank, IIRC, you are a numbers guy and I’m surprised hear this type of statement from you. I’m pretty sure you know BigZ was really good in 2009 and 2010, so what gives?
magicblue - January 5, 2012
I'll begin the shrine building for Carlos,
right after I finish Darryl Strawberry’s. Both very talented, and both real penises.
scottsdalecubs - January 5, 2012
rec'd for "penises"
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
And real ones, at that.
daver - January 5, 2012
as opposed to fake ones?
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
isnt it
penii?
What is teh pluralz?
RIP Slim - January 5, 2012
a penal colony?
EalyEagle - January 5, 2012
At least one of these guys had a drug problem.
The other was a out of control hothead.
BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness - January 6, 2012
This is all I really care about.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
Very well said.
sue369 - January 5, 2012
He's given Z way more benefit of the doubt over the years
In fact, over the course of Z’s career, Al has actually been too nice regarding Z.
blackhawk24 - January 5, 2012
Ha, yeah right.
kanderber - January 5, 2012 via mobile
So if I do this, you'll admit you were wrong?
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
I know I'm still waiting for an answer.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
I was thinking the same thing.
Why keep rehashing all the negatives. I’ve been a bid fan of Big Z, but agree it was time for him to go. So let’s remember some of his highlights.
I’ll start with a game that I always remember from 2003 in Houston, with the Cubs in a pennant race. Z gave up 3 unearned runs in the first, then not only went into the 9th without giving up another run, but hit a 2-ru game-tying homer in the 7th when a pinch hitter seemed to make more sense. An Alou dinger in the 8th proved to be the game-winner.
http://m.bbref.com/m?p=XXboxesXXHOUXXHOU200307250.shtml
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - January 5, 2012 via mobile
The negatives are why this deal even happened
It would be sloppy to not first reference why we arrived at this destination. You can show off his positives as well, or better yet, leave that up to some Marlins fan/blogger. It shouldn’t be Al’s responsibility to put together a highlight reel for them.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
But it's Al's responsibility to pile on? I thought that's what comments were for.
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
"Pile on"?
I think Z did that to himself.
However, I did thank Z for the memories, many of them good ones. It’s not a bad idea to go over those. Maybe I’ll do that.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
I hope you do...
…because a few links and a “I wish Carlos Zambrano well” don’t really compare to a detailed timeline of his on/off field histrionics.
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
This
DebT - January 5, 2012
It's not piling on, though.
I may not agree with Al on everything, but I do agree with how he approached this. Not everyone reads these comments, and so I think Al did the right thing in expressing how and why we reached this point. This deal didn’t happen because Z threw a no-hitter, because of how many home runs he hit, because of his silly frosted tips, etc. This deal happened because of everything Al mentioned in this essay. I don’t see the issue in historically reflecting on what past thoughts were when Z would blow up. It’s also just one essay after a post about the announcement of the deal. Again, Al can’t assume that everyone reads the comments and thus already knows his feelings on the matter. Sometimes you need to write for people outside the bubble.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
I guess what I'm looking for is some balance.
This wasn’t Milton Bradley being traded where you’d really really really have to look hard to find some positive Cubs contributions to write about. Carlos Zambrano meant a lot to this franchise while he was here – it would have been nice to see some of that mentioned as well.
As to why this deal happened… well, does anyone ever get traded for good reasons? So yeah, from a reporting perspective, I guess there’s a need to explain how we got to this point. But if all you’re going to do is highlight the negative, I would have preferred a more concise “just the facts, ma’am” recap approach. No need to hash it all out again.
And yes, Al, while Z did indeed do all those things to himself, what you did was piling on.
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
C'mon, Hawk.
There’s a lot of stuff that Al didn’t even include. The infamous “we stinks” game, the late scratch in Denver in 2009, showing up teammates who made errors (other than D-Lee in 2010).
If Zambrano had been traded in 2007 or 2008 — when Z had more good performances to his credit and when he’d had fewer blowups — then there would have been more positives to throw in. But in January 2012, the only highlight of the past three seasons that I can remember was his start against Lincecum in late 2010.
elgato - January 5, 2012
so Al piled up a list
and now you’re piling on? :)
TC Cubby - January 5, 2012
Ha.
I’m just saying that Al’s list wasn’t even comprehensive — which is important to note when arguing whether Al was fair to Zambrano.
elgato - January 5, 2012
Well, I'm not looking for an impassioned eulogy
Again, I would have preferred a much concise sendoff. Short and sweet and then let the comments have at it.
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
* more concise
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
Well, it's Al's world ...
we’re just living in it.
elgato - January 5, 2012
These are the times I wish I had Photoshop skillz...
…or SWL on my payroll
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
So my post should have read
Is that right? That’s kind of what you’re saying here.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
well, that's a bit extreme
to put it quantitatively… if your original post was 100 and your suggestion above was 1, I’d say somewhere around 40 would have been the sweet spot, IMO.
But like el said, it’s your world. I understand that. I’m just using the comments to express my preference for either a little more love to go along with the meltdown breakdown, or a little less on the meltdowns to begin with.
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
The meltdowns, unfortunately, have defined Z.
They are the reason he’s no longer a Cub. Does that make sense?
It does make some sense to celebrate the good. I’ll try to do that, maybe for tomorrow.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
maybe they've defined Z for you.
Not everyone. You could recognize that.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Sure.
However, if they don’t define Z for you, I think you’d probably acknowledge that yours is a minority point of view.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
As I did
yesterday.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
And the beauty of this site is, they can recall Z however they deem necessary through a fanpost.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
as long as it isnt linked to
MLB Trade Rumors
Cubbie-Tim - January 5, 2012
Yeah!
A throw an Ivy wreath on the BCB logo.
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
Why are you so focused on the last 3 seasons? What about his performance from 2003-2009? Do those years not count for anything?
Cubs fans (not directed specifically at you) have such short memories, any player accomplishments since prior to the 2008 collapse seems to have been completely forgotten. There’s such a focus on the negatives of first ARam and now Zambrano. These guys are two the greatest Cubs players of all time, and most of the fans on this blog have nothing but negative things to focus on, which is sad…….
magicblue - January 5, 2012
Cubs fans (not directed specifically at you) have such short memories
I’ll wager this is true of a lot of sports fans in general. Look at how people treat Lovie, and he’s gone to the playoffs four times in the past decade, won the division twice, and the conference once and gone to the superbowl.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
It's all about...
…“What have you done for me lately?”. Like it is in EVERY sport.
Easy Ed - January 5, 2012
Yeah
I appreciate Peyton Manning leading the Colts to a record number of 10 and 12 win seasons, 2 Super Bowls, and 1 Super Bowl victory, but I don’t want him and his fused spine throwing a football for the Colts this season and risk blowing a gigantic wad on money on that if and when he goes down or doesn’t perform to his previous level.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
talk about a team
depending on one guy. It’s amazing to have watched them this season.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Let me tell you
as a Colts fan, it was a lot of fun. How they won 2 games, I don’t even know, because they were worse than the 0-16 Lions team.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
I presume you mean "fun"
in the “as fun as having a rabid badger sleeping in my sweatpants that I’m wearing” fun.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
No, it was fun
I didn’t have to watch the full games and you can’t help but laugh at a team that bad. It was also somewhat comforting to know they were going to most likely get a #1 pick after that 4th or 5th game.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
It's amazing, sometimes,
Teams have no contingency in case one of their key players gets injured. I always worried about that with Aaron Rodgers. But what Matt Flynn did to the Lions, how he did that when the Lions had to win, I will never know.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 5, 2012
There's a quote from Bill Polian, former Colts GM
and he was asked why they weren’t trying to prepare Painter more in case Manning ever went down, and his response was something to the effect of “Are you kidding? We’re not doing that because we can’t win without Manning.” I’m so thankful him and his rotten kid are gone from the Colts organization now. Same goes for Angelo and the Bears.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Looks like he knew what he was talking about though!
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
More like...what have you done for me, ever?
This is a franchise that has won in over 100 years. What exactly are we celebrating here? A few good memories?
The guy didn’t contribute to a championship, or even a World Series birth. That’s how the fans of most teams evaluate guys worthy of the pantheon.
BDR529 - January 5, 2012
*berth
BDR529 - January 5, 2012
I could just as easily say ...
why are you willing to dismiss the past three years.
elgato - January 5, 2012
I'm not, Z was actually pretty good in 2009 (3.6 WAR) and 2010 (2.3 WAR)
so I have never dismissed those years, I would actually count those as part of the good Z years. The only year I’d like to dismiss is 2011, because this was the 1st year that he was not a a below average pitcher.
magicblue - January 5, 2012
^^^ edit: because this was the 1st year that he was a below average pitcher
magicblue - January 5, 2012
It's hard to be average or above average when you're suspended or injured or throwing fits.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
what do people remember of Barry bonds
that he beat a HR record,or that he was accused of steroids.
how about Roger Clemens? good pitcher or bad person (steroids lieing etc etc)
Pete rose? good player or gambler.
point is people are defined by the actions they take. not how the first 8 years of their career went .
RIP Slim - January 5, 2012 via Android app
Hall of Famers...all 3.
Easy Ed - January 5, 2012
--
Bonds – best hitter Ive ever seen
Clemens – Great pitcher and a big dick
Pete Rose – gambling and hit record
Hammer - January 5, 2012
or to the casual fan
bonds-steroids
Clemens- lied under oath
Rose-made bets involving his team
I’m not saying that each of those players are awful,actually they were good at what they did. The point is 85% of people remember their negative actions than positive ones
RIP Slim - January 5, 2012 via Android app
All valid points
I just hate to see a key Cub player for a decade leave and have so much of the focus be on the negatives, particularly when they’ve been discussed at such length already. Al certainly can (and should) write about the events that led us to this point, but us fans can certainly choose to remember the good times instead.
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - January 5, 2012 via mobile
Z never had a problem when things went well.
Unfortunately, a mans character is tested in hard times. Z couldn’t handle adversity. I echo Al’s feelings about him and wish him well. He did alot of good things in Chicago. Unfortunately, growing up wasn’t one of them.
Rick B - January 5, 2012
Zambrano was a major contributor to the Cubs being dysfunctional
So, I am glad he’s gone. Although hope is not a method (according to Gen Gordon Sullivan), it would be good to see Volstad’s upside be realized soon.
BAMACOLONEL - January 5, 2012
Z and Ozzie deserve each other
Emelie - January 5, 2012
Logan Morrison makes 3
Superman - January 5, 2012
oh and Mr. Hanley Ramirez too. That should be an interesting clubhouse dynamic to say the least...
Superman - January 5, 2012
I giggle with joy waiting for the implosion...
BDR529 - January 5, 2012
Jim Hendry's total and utter incompetence
Al suggests the Cubs trade Zambrano on June 2nd, 2007, he’s just not salvageable.
Ten weeks later on Aug 15th, 2007 Hendry gives Zambrano and five year 90 million dollar contract.
MikeJW - January 5, 2012
and you're saying Zambrano had no significant contributions
between 2007 and 2012?
Give me a break.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
please
91 million dollar worth of contributions?
MikeJW - January 5, 2012
I think
that player salaries are ridiculous, and should be capped far lower than they are. But that’s not the point. It’s not YOUR 91 million.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
That’s not really the point either. The question was whether he was worth that money. Doesn’t matter whether it was yours, mine or ours, compared to others who are making that kind of money, the argument can be strongly made that he didn’t earn it.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
no one is worth
the money. No one is worth 91 million dollars to play a game. I don’t care who they are.
The market is what the market is. Zambrano was a good ball player who struggled with his emotions on and off the field.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Obviously when looking at “was he worth it” you’re measuring that against his contemporaries.
But I see we’ve reached the point where you begin splitting hairs.. so I’m out.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
look at the numbers.
I don’t see how Z doesn’t stack up.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
I said at the time, "Zambrano is a knucklehead, but he's OUR knucklehead"
This was always a high risk, high reward signing. Like many signings of the Hendry era, much possibility, but it didn’t pan out.
There was little choice but to take the risk at that time. However, the time for parting was right.
BDR529 - January 5, 2012
Buster Olney on Cubs high priced players
@Buster_ESPNBuster Olney
It’s staggering to consider how little return the Cubs have gotten for some of the priciest signings: Zambrano, Bradley, Fukudome, Soriano.
MikeJW - January 5, 2012
Soriano, at least, was productive until the injuries.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
I give the Cubs some slack on the Zambrano signing.
He was a homegrown pitcher with lots of talent — he won nearly 60 games in 2003-2006 — who was in his prime, age wise (27 at the time of the signing, IIRC). And the worst of the blowups occurred after the extension.
Giving an 8-year deal to a toolsy player in his 30s with no plate discipline, no real defensive position was a far worse idea than giving a 27-year-old a 5-year deal.
elgato - January 5, 2012
Moderately.
He put up a 122 OPS+ in 2007. That’s nice. That’s not $18MM worth of nice.
Now, he’s lucky to post league-average seasons.
When you spend $18MM and 8 seasons on a guy, you expect 140+ OPS seasons – and Soriano has zero such seasons to his credit for his entire career.
The signing was a stretch. The Cubs were expecting that Soriano had established a new level of play with his excellent 2006, and that’s a season he hasn’t remotely approached before or since.
The fact that he managed 1 and a half seasons worth of his typical 120-ish OPS+ pre-Cub performance (assuming we leave his great WAS 2006 season out entirely) doesn’t mitigate the fact that his signing was a poor one. The Cubs had passed on a number of top free agents, Soriano happened to be available, and here we are.
D98 - January 5, 2012
The Cubs would be falling all over themselves if they could trade Soriano for the equivalent of what they got for Bradley.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
Carlos Silva is available.....
ClarkFan - January 5, 2012
Soriano for Silva and call it good for Theo's compensation?
ubercubsfan - January 5, 2012
silva's already with the red sox
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
Lesson
How many people on this board, and in the media last year, said “just drop Zambrano, eat the money”. While they are only being relieved of 2-3 Million, that is still something. In addition, getting Volstad is the key to this. While not a top of the rotation guy, he’s another piece to ensure we don’t have Rodrigo Lopez and Casey Coleman starting this year.
vin23 - January 5, 2012
so bittersweet
To me bittersweet sums up the Cubs in the first decade of this new century. Many have speculated that Z’s antics were triggered by pressure, including pressure to be the number 1 pitcher carrying this team. Imagine if, instead, all was asked of him was to be the number 2 or 3 pitcher behind Prior and Wood for the last 7 years. This trade severs the last link to the “what if” cubs of the last decade.
TC Cubby - January 5, 2012
Great point
Wow, that hurts to think about though.
vin23 - January 5, 2012
Not necessarily.
Easy Ed - January 5, 2012
I love that even back in 2007
people were arguing if the Cubs could get a Top prospect in a trade for Zambrano.
I wont miss Z.
epsilon - January 5, 2012
werid....
I love that even back in 2007, people were arguing if the Cubs could get a Top prospect in trade for Zambrano.
epsilon - January 5, 2012
Z was always about promise and unfulfilled at that.
I saw Z pitch in Des Moines when he was 19 thinking that this guy is going to be really something. I saw him pitch in August 2003 against a very good Astros team in the heat of a pennant race and watched him 3-hit shutout (if my memory is correct) that night in a dominating fashion. I thought he will be awesome for years to come, Cy Young potential.
But what I saw as he came into his prime was failure after failure. Not in shape, typing cramps from emailing his brother (now explain that again???) and blowups that would embarrass a two year old. He had all the promise of a big time pitcher and never fulfilled it. Sure he teased us with a no-hitter and occasional greatness and dominance, but I think we can agree we all waited for the year he would dominate from start to finish and all we were left with was disappointment. He never fulfilled the promise he possessed in that big right arm.
mrcubsfan - January 5, 2012
Volstad can now say he was traded for $15 million. Haha.
SackMan - January 5, 2012
I didn't chime in much last night.
TheoJed got enough of a return that this move isn’t all that one-sided, and Volstad could be a sleeper (I admit I don’t know much about him).
After all these years, I don’t think Zambrano’s a bad guy. He’s just troubled, and I think he needed a change of scenery more than any other player I can remember — at least, among players who might actually benefit from said change of scenery (i.e. not MB).
Good luck, Carlos.
elgato - January 5, 2012
Al, I think you portrayed Z perfectly in this article.
His histrionics always overshadowed his talent. You told it like it is. A sad story.
katie casey - January 5, 2012
A sad story indeed
We were lucky enough to get seats right behind home plate durin 2004 Spring Training and watched Z pitch. We were stunned. So much promise in him, for the Cubs and for us! He seemed to be able to move the ball left, right, up, down at any speed, and still control it. Too bad he couldn’t control himself. Maybe he’ll change in Florida. That would be a typical Cub result!
waiting4cubs - January 5, 2012
He might just thrive with Ozzie.
Hope he does. As long as it’s not against the Cubs.
katie casey - January 5, 2012
Hope so, too.
waiting4cubs - January 5, 2012
Pretty happy with this deal
Z gave us some good moments and then there was the other stuff….hopefully he can get his act together in Miami, for his sake anyways…and hopefully Volstad can live up to his potential. Either way, getting Z out of Chicago was absolutely the right move.
cubman987 - January 5, 2012
He certainly TRIED
ONE thing you cannot say about Zambrano is that he didn’t give it his all…I think he probably tried too hard and wanted it too much. good luck in Fla!!
QuincyCub - January 5, 2012
Sad all the way around
Z really could have been something, and his contract at the time was justifiable. But there was no way he could come back.
Things certainly will be entertaining in Miami this season.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 5, 2012
...
katie casey - January 5, 2012
Is that what the new ballpark looks like??
waiting4cubs - January 5, 2012
It's a sculpture in their outfield. It lights up for Miami HR.
It’s gonna be sweet.
D98 - January 5, 2012
reminds me of the shooting gallery at Knott's Berry Farm
EalyEagle - January 5, 2012
If I look at this long enough,
I fear I might have a seizure.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 5, 2012
the contract wasn't justifable to many
Al even suggested to dump Zambrano on June 2nd, 2007, many GM’s would not have done that deal.
MikeJW - January 5, 2012
I'm not sure Al
was in the majority at that point.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 5, 2012
I'm sure I wasn't.
And as has been pointed out, only 10 weeks later, Z got his five year extension.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Dumping him would have been a mistake, but so was the contract
ClarkFan - January 5, 2012
Agreed.
I wonder just how long it will take for Z and Ozzie to have a falling-out.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 5, 2012
By the fourth inning on opening day
might be a good place to start.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 6, 2012
Nice! Ozzie will feel at home.
waiting4cubs - January 5, 2012
It will be fun watching those two mix it up on SportsCenter highlights this year
JFCubFan - January 5, 2012
I know this is unlikely
but has anybody heard what the Cubs will have to pay out if Z actually has a great year, finishes healthy and finishes in the top 4 of Cy Young? This would make him expensive for 2013 right?
Holy Cattle - January 5, 2012
I'm willing to roll those dice...
If the Cubs thought Z was really capable of that, they wouldn’t have made this deal. He hasn’t had ‘top 4 in the Cy Young’ stuff in years.
JG23 - January 5, 2012
And...
… he has never finished in the top 4 of Cy Young voting, even in his good years. Not once.
He’s received Cy Young votes in three seasons: 2004, 2006 and 2007. Finished fifth all three times.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
I know it's next to impossible that he finishes in the top 4 in Cy Young voting
but if I remember that is potentially a $19 million dollar payout, they have to have some kind of plan for that.
Holy Cattle - January 5, 2012
I think they're planning to spend the $19 million elsewhere
JG23 - January 5, 2012
I think even if he magically gets a top 4 in Cy Young voting he would still walk.
He could use that to get a 3 year deal vs chancing a blowup in 2013 on the Marlins.
ubercubsfan - January 5, 2012
I read that
the Marlins would be on the hook for that.
Sorry, no link.
SouthWabashSoul - January 5, 2012
Thank you for the memories
But this has been a long time coming. Glad to see TheoJed clean up this mess too. Onward to better things!
slcathena - January 5, 2012
Sad Times
Big Z, you will be missed.
I will be the 1st to admit that Z has acted unprofessional at various times throughout this career, but I can only wonder what Z would have achieved if drafted by an organization with culture and accountability.
I think Zs outbursts were a cry for change within the organization. Now that the Cubs have hit rock bottom, we bring in TheoJed for that change.
Oh, what could have been.
bigz38fan - January 5, 2012
As much as I hate to say it...
…I believe the Cubs will now re-sign Kerry Wood. I’m thinkin’ he was one of the vets who wanted Zambrano gone and it may have delayed his re-signing…imo. Or maybe Hoyer & Epstein want to rid the team of everything reminding of ‘03? Wood would be all that’s left. Probably not. Just a thought.
Easy Ed - January 5, 2012
I think you are right
I’m sure Kerry had good intentions, but his tweet made me cringe.
KerryWood Kerry Wood
@@MLB @cubs @marlins Best of luck to Big Z in Miami. Played together for 9 seasons. Wish him all the best!
Kerry wanted him gone like so many other vets.
bigz38fan - January 5, 2012
Sure.
But why say something bad on Twitter about him? That was a classy thing to tweet.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Which is what you'd expect from Kerry Wood
Class all the way.
The_Rock - January 5, 2012
I would prefer he not say anything at all
bigz38fan - January 5, 2012
What the hell is the harm in wishing a guy you played with for almost a decade good wishes?
I’m having trouble understanding why Kerry Wood saying goodbye to Zambrano made you “cringe”
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
They've said all along that he's coming back.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
He (Epstein), also said...
…he would give Zambrano every chance to right himself with the team in 2012. Epstein seems to give the media just enough to keep them happy…whether he means any of it or not. I like that about him.
Easy Ed - January 5, 2012
I dunno, they seem like two different things.
The point of saying Z was able to come back was to try and keep his trade value at a certain level. I don’t know what’s accomplished by saying Wood’s coming back and then not re-signing him.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
To keep from answering the same question over and over?
Maybe one of the hold-ups is that Hoyer & Epstein would like the opportunity to trade him at the deadline, if possible, for more prospects. Wood probably wants a NTC. He probably don’t realize that Hoyer & Epstein don’t have the “love” for Wood like the previous regime had. Just a thought.
Easy Ed - January 5, 2012
I highly doubt Kerry Wood is asking for a NTC at this point in his career.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
not to support EE's paranoia...
but it wouldnt surprise me if he’s looking for it. he’s said if it isnt the cubs he’ll retire. so no since in signing a one year agreement or whatever, only to get traded in july and not play in chicago.
epsilon - January 5, 2012
If he asks for a NTC, he also better be asking for a salary comparable to last year's
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Yep
Easy Ed - January 5, 2012
LaHair
Al- I guess next year, the winner of this boards frequent argument will be determined, as Theo said yesterday that Lahair is the starting first basemen. Theo also has said now (at least 3 times) that he doesn’t believe in 4 A players. Comment is not get you going, just to recognize that one of those board debates will be solved this year (most likely).
vin23 - January 5, 2012
Yes, it will be solved one way or the other.
Either Theo’s right, or I am. Maybe LaHair really is good enough to be a productive major leaguer. If he is, I’ll be happy to admit I was wrong.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Could also be read as LaHair is the starting first baseman...
…right this second, pending a future 1B signing.
I would not be comfortable entrusting the starting 1B job to LaHair, but if he makes his 2011-closeout the norm (or close), so be it.
Steven Schweickert - January 5, 2012
Interpretation
I think Theo meant that players like LaHair have to be given a chance in the majors otherwise the franchise could be blowing a big opportunity. And then he talked about how not all of the pitching differences favor the minor league hitters, such as the strike zone difference. He didn’t say that LaHair would obviously succeed in the majors.
They don’t seem to be spending money for 2012, so it will likely be LaHair at 1B or a player acquired through trade who they view as having more upside.
AboutTheCubs - January 5, 2012
Here is how big Z's situation works
It’s like when you get into some financial trouble or any trouble, and you have to go live with your parents for a while. After a year you find a place to live and are back on your feet again. Well mom and dad it was great living here but it is time for me to go. With that said if you are old then your kids might come and live with you in this situation when they leave you say well I love you but you have to move out. You love them you will miss them but it has to happened.
lshaffer_69 - January 5, 2012
wat
JOVE23 - January 5, 2012
I've read this four times and I'm still not getting it.
So Zambrano is the family dog who bit the neighbor and now has to go live on a farm?
shoemile - January 5, 2012
No! It's actually pretty simple.
Zambrano is like a house that needs a new roof but you don’t have enough money to pay the Amish to repair it. Duh!
Bricks and Ivy - January 5, 2012
So you hire those Irish Travelers from South Carolina
And they rip you off.
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
go live on a farm
Yeah, that’s what you tell the little kids….
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
...
Emelie - January 5, 2012
Yes, but...
IowaCubs- - January 5, 2012
Beckett is smokin' hot
EalyEagle - January 5, 2012
OK, I think I kinda-sorta get what you're saying.
But a better metaphor might be: Z is the troubled son whose parents have allowed to live in their home long past the time when he should’ve moved out. And now the new landlord has finally forced them to evict him. Or something like that.
daver - January 5, 2012
Z has been one of my favorites since he started with the Cubs.
I loved his fiery spirit and his will to win. He was awesome to watch from the mound (when he was good) and with the bat in his hands. With that being said, he really needed to go somewhere else. It will be better for the Cubs because we can start to be molded into the team Theo sees winning as and it will be better for him because it will be a fresh start. He can leave his bad memories with him in Chicago and bring the good ones with him to Miami.
I wish him nothing but the best and will be cheering for him in Miami. Unless he’s playing the Cubs of course.
Bricks and Ivy - January 5, 2012
I need some gambling advice.
I can’t seem to find anywhere that will let me bet on a felony assault taking place in the Marlin’s locker room next year. I’m sure it’s a long shot, but it seems like it would be worth a small wager.
9isEnough - January 5, 2012
Try the UK - British bookies will take about anything
ClarkFan - January 5, 2012
Ok, ok... Clearly I'm in the distinct minority on the best way to say goodbye to Z. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.
So just to show everyone that I do have a sense of humor about this (because, well, you know, I’m always so serious around here), here’s a little something I like to call my “Ode to Z…”
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
pawpawone
I just blew a mouthful of coffee all over my screen! Dang.
ecurbwon - January 5, 2012
Over/under 20 total trips to the mound by Ozzie...
…before their “bromance” takes a crap?
Easy Ed - January 5, 2012
I wonder if they'll actually get into it on the mound.
Oh man, this is gonna be great.
daver - January 5, 2012
And somehow
There is a bright blue ski and it is sunny in downtown Chicago.
It’s a beautiful day for a ballgame… Let’s play two!
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
Well atleast I can say I was in attendance for Z's last outing as a Cub.
Even though it was a dreadful game in Atl. I’ll miss Z, he’s been my favorite Cub since the Sosa era ended.
CubsPanthersTarHeels - January 5, 2012 via mobile
For years I was one of Zambrano's biggest defenders/apologists
I was even in favor of the contract he signed as I had some kind of naive notion that job security would be what it takes to calm him down and get him focused. But his antics over teh years gradually wore me down. As the Cubs veteran said, it wasn’t just one (or even two or three) incidents but a repeating pattern of erratic behavior that, coupled with his declining fastball, made him a cancer.
By the end I was so thoroughly sick of his act that I couldn’t even get angry about it anymore. I don’t care if he goes out and wins 20 games with Miami-this was a good move, the ONLY move that Theo could have made to insure a healthier clubhouse atmosphere.
I feel better about the Cubs today than I did at this same time yesterday.
bluekoolaide - January 5, 2012
I can understand that
but one can’t help but wonder who will be the way to eat up all those innings for the Cubs. If they also trade Garza, then you multiply the problem X 2.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
As far as that goes...
…right now I’m perfectly happy to believe that the guys in charge know what they’re doing and will figure it out. I mean, Theo didn’t get as far as he has without knowing how to put together a pitching staff. And, while we’re at it, I can’t think of a LESS dependable guy than Z., to eat up innings anyway.
bluekoolaide - January 5, 2012
His record does not reflect that
in fact, other than his suspension last year, Z was incredibly dependable when i came to eating up innings.
And whether Theo knows how to put together a pitching staff or not, those guys that can be penciled in for 200 innings with no concern about arm issues don’t grow on trees.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
You need to recheck the records...
…since the last time he threw 200 innings was 2007.
bluekoolaide - January 5, 2012
Other than his suspension
Well, that just speaks of dependabilty. Sorry, that’s a difficult caveat for me to wrap my head around.
You are riught that 200 inning guys do not grow on trees. And Zambrano hasn’t been one of them – 4 straight years of less than 200 innings.
Suitable replacements for the innings are available. Paul Maholm, Joe Saunders, and Jeff Francis are all projected for at least 160 innings, which is more than Zambrano has averaged the last 4 seasons.
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
You think the Cubs will pay Joe Saunders $27M for 3 years?
Cause that is what he is asking.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
I don't think they will.
Frankly, I don’t think anyone will pay Saunders that much.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Don't side step the issue with money
You talked about 200 innings and you’re wrong. Simply put, the Cubs could not could on Zambrano for those 200 innings whether it would be due to injury or a suspension.
I just pointed out 3 FA options if the Cubs chose to go that way.
The Cubs have already made up the innings. Let’s say Zambrano and Sean Marshall combine for 275 IP (we’ll say Z pitches 200). In the 2 trades the Cubs have already got those innings – Travis Wood at 106 and Chris Volstad at 165. That’s 271 IP with longer term assets and additional players.
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
An exceedingly odd comment.
daver - January 5, 2012
Zambrano has averaged under 150 innings over the past 3 years...
I think they can fill those easily enough.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
It seems like the myth of Carlos Zamrano is already starting to...
…supplant the reality in some people’s minds. He was anything BUT dependable over the last several years. Suspensions, injuries, premature retirements, fights with teammates…you name it. How anybody can realistically defend this guy or act like we’re screwed without him in the rotation at this point is beyond me.
If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result then Theo is the first sane guy we’ve had in charge in a long time.
bluekoolaide - January 5, 2012
I'm sure this has been said a million times in other threads and possibly this one...
I like the fact that the Cubs are paying $18 million for 3 years of pitcher who will likely exceed that value. That’s all.
Also, the trading Z thing sort of makes me sad. I watched him pitch in Des Moines before he was called up and the Iowa Cubs still have a huge banner of him hanging on the wall as you walk in to Principal Park. He was electric and cocky then, too. Glad I got to see him pitch in the minors and once last summer in Kansas City.
IowaCubs- - January 5, 2012
I have a similar memory
of Pedro Martinez. Just by coincidence, I happen to catch a game he was pitching in AA in Bakersfield when he was in the Dodgers system.
He was absolutely dominant. When the Dodger traded him not long after, I thought they were crazy.
I still think it is one of the worst trades the Dodgers have made.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
The Deal
is structured so that the Cubs pay Z’s salary (in full) and the Marlins pay whatever Volstad winds up making this year. Although he made the minimum last year, Volstad is arb eligible.
When I was reading the comments on this thread, I was reminded of the girl that used to post here that was such a Zambrano fan. I forget her screen name, but she really liked Big Z.
Oh well, 10 years is a pretty darn good run, no matter how you slice it. What I will remember about Zambrano is that for 10 years he gave the Cubs a good 200 innings per year and generally was in the low to mid 3’s in ERA. Pretty impressive, if you ask me,
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
Cite?
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
The Miami Herald
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
Link, please.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
See below
It’s right there in the Miami Herald’s article on the trade.
Quote:
“The deal will not cost the Marlins financially.They will pay Zambrano only what they would have paid Volstad, who is expected to make about $2.5 million in his first year of arbitration.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/05/2574051/miami-marlins-to-get-carlos-zambrano.html#storylink=cpy
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
If you had posted that link in your original comment above...
… that would have backed up your point better.
I note that article was written by the same reporter you quoted by tweet yesterday as saying the Cubs were picking up the entire Z contract. That’s true, but it’s not the whole story, as the article points out.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
I don't feel the need to back up my points
It is safe to assume that I know what I am talking about. After all these years I would think you would have figured that out by now.
Actually the Marlins beat reporter was correct in what he tweeted – that the Cubs were paying all of Z’s salary and the Marlins were paying Volstad’s.
He simply made the incorrect assumption that Volstad was making the minimum, as he did last year. I emailed him that Volstad was arb eligible this year, and he corrected himself in his actual story for the paper.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
Yes, you need to back up your points.
Everyone here does. If you make a statement like that, and you find it from a link, you need to post the link.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Bullshit
I don’t need to do anything of the sort.
This information is freely available on the internet for anyone who cares to google it. I am not posting super secret information and this is not a court of law.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
....
santoswoodenlegs - January 5, 2012
I love that this guy
has become a meme. He’s awesome.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
i'm going to rec this
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
Your surliness is a fitting tribute...
…to this thread’s titular subject.
daver - January 5, 2012
Happy New Year!
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
This dude, right here.
He’s above it all.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
The Dude?
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
More like this dude...
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
Yes, you do.
You are not creating the information you post here. You are only passing it along from another source.
You are not exempt from posting a source, as I ask every single other person here to do.
If you cannot follow this rule, you will be asked to leave.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Oh, just look through the rest of the treasure trove he left for you
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Seriously,
Why haven’t you banned this guy yet? I’d rather take 25 people dropping F-bombs over a troll like him any day of the week.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 6, 2012
Plus, the profanity is unacceptable.
“freely available on the internet for anyone who cares to google it”?
Nonsense. You post something here that you didn’t create, you post the source. Period.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
This is so dumb I'm going to recommend it so others can see the dumbness behind it.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 6, 2012
Holy Giant Ego Batman!
Yes, your word is gospel, no one should EVER question what you say.
Just……..
Wow
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
To the SB Nation Blacklist Extension for Chrome, Robin!
EalyEagle - January 5, 2012
he told me that the sky was pink
why would he lie?
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
He once told me that I should tug on Superman's cape
I’ll never listen to him again
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Oh and ESPN
and just about every other news source. When they say the Cubs will be paying between $15 and $16M, that is because nobody knows yet what Volstad will get in arbitration, but it is expected to be between $2 and $3M.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
The best thing for both sides really
Z just couldn’t exist as a Cub any longer. That Marlins team is going to be interesting to watch next season.
Chi-Fed - January 5, 2012
that place is going to Implode.
Ozzie’s attitude
Z’s Insanity
Hanley’s selfishness
LoMo’s arrogance
epsilon - January 5, 2012
and i think the caliope HR thing is the trigger for it all...
just like in Halloween 3 with the silver shamrock jingle or Naked Gun with the Remote controlled Reggie jackson.
epsilon - January 5, 2012
bingo
Emelie - January 5, 2012
Speaking of imploding...
…don’t forget Reyes’ hamstrings
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
and sitting out when he gets his numbers.
epsilon - January 5, 2012
That ballpark will look like the aftermath of a 1960's Who concert...
ClarkFan - January 5, 2012
I think
you’re going to be surprised.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
miami
heat beg to differ
RIP Slim - January 5, 2012 via Android app
Another Lugnut bites the dust for the Cubs
Marmol, Wells & a then-rehabbing Dempster are all that’s left. :(
Zeke - January 5, 2012
My biggest memory of Z
will be him throwing a no-hitter against the Astros in Milwaukee. Most of the rest of it didn’t matter. I didn’t even read your litany.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Yeah, it's not like the rest of that stuff got him suspended which was detrimental to the team.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
something that happened
near the end of his time in Chicago. Yes, it was bad. But I don’t care. He was a great Cub, a good pitcher, and I liked him. Still, it’s not a bad trade, either. We’re moving forward, that’s good. I hope he has a good career in Miami.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
o.0
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Eh, better than him trying to make something up to justify his feelings.
If he doesn’t care, he doesn’t care.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
Doesn't mean I can't give him the stink eye
cuz its dumb
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
I don't look at
isolated portions of his career as a cub. I look at all of it as a whole. As a whole, Z was good for the Cubs. That’s why I don’t care.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
How was he good for the Cubs as a whole?
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
He CARED MAN! He CARED!!
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
seriously?
you’re gonna suggest that Zambrano wasn’t key to winning in 2003, 2007, 2008, 2009?
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Winning what, exactly, in 2009?
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
the best batting practice swing
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
2009 was
the first time the Cubs had three winning seasons in a row, either ever or in a long time, I can’t remember which.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Certainly not ever
You don’t have to go that far back to find the late 1960-early 1970 teams.
And I don’t know that winning 83 games is a cause celebre.
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
hmmm.
I could have sworn I read that somewhere. Maybe it’s that Lou was the first Cubs manager to win three seasons in a row?
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Leo Durocher would like a word
As would Charlie Grimm, Joe McCarthy, and
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Sssshhhh, you're hurting his narrative.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
pfft.
this place gets remarkably meta when presented with an opposing view…
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Only when that opposing view is based on
“Because I said so, therefore you’re wrong.”
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
which
I haven’t done. I was wrong, I said I was wrong.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
ok
then I’m wrong. My bad.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
S'alright
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Zambrano's late scratch in Denver in 2009 ...
has been cited as a reason that team completely fell apart after being in first place in August. Even if you don’t agree with that, Zambrano’s contribution to an 83-win disappointment is hardly worth bragging about.
elgato - January 5, 2012
I mean, you could say Soriano
had as much to do with the team winning in 2007 than Zambrano.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
I do say that.
They both had a big impact.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
I've got no qualms with your opinions or feelings on Z
I never understood your stance on MB, and so as it pertains to Z now, I won’t even try to understand. It just is what it is.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
ok,
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
I have made it clear that I think this is a bad deal and I will miss Z
While he brought much on himself sending to the bullpen was one the dumbest and destructive things the Cubs have done.
The ultimate irony here is that I think Z will do very well in Miami with Ozzie. I consider Ozzie crazy and nasty, but unlike Lou and Quade I think he will know how to handle Z.
Much of the posts on this remind of the famous Shakespeare line
“The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones”
Doggie Stalker - January 5, 2012
so he's going to destroy a gatorade machine with one of his bones?
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
no, I think the kids will find those bones on the farm after the Amish finish fixing the barn...
…and give them to the dog left behind by the Irish travelers.
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
I sense a bet between you and me on this, Jessica.
Your call.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
What would the bet be?
Z winning more in 2012 than Volstad? That’s pretty much a no-brainer, isn’t it?
Easy Ed - January 5, 2012
Or starts.
Or something. I’ll leave it up to her.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
I will go with starts as I can' be sure of run support or fielding
30 plus OK with you. You can add something if you like, I am happy with the much maligned ERA.
Doggie Stalker - January 5, 2012
You can do something like fielding independent stats...
FIP or xFIP? They’d be completely unbiased. Be warned, however, xFIP is generous to Volstad due to his HR/FB%
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
I was not thinking so much of a Volstead match up
Just how well Z will do for the Marlins.
Doggie Stalker - January 5, 2012
Ahh, my bad.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
Let me think about this.
I think we do have to bring Volstad into it somehow. Because I do think he’ll be better.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
OK with me
but I prefer old fashioned stats like starts, wins IP & ERA.
Doggie Stalker - January 5, 2012
Starts, IP and ERA sure
…. but not wins! Garza proved in 2011 that wins are no way to grade a starter. dont u agree?
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
For a bet?
Maybe. We’ll have to think about how to do this.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
How about....
Over or Under….
25 as the number of days that Z is not available to the Marlins’ 25??
That would include DL stints, skipped starts (e.g., tweaked ankle and misses 7 days but doesn’t go on DL), and suspensions.
fsuapollo - January 5, 2012
I dont like this trade
… Z could be a maniac and act stupid sometimes but he could be a really good pitcher too and i think its dumb to pay $15 million of his salary when we need starting pitching and alls we get back is a piece of shit pitcher who will prolly be DFA by June. We coulda held on to him till july and traded him to a contender for a prospect just as bad and still saved 3 mil. I will miss Big Z, you can talk about all the negative parts of him but at least he had the drive to win.
Theo needs to admit this is a full rebuild season and prepare the fans for 100 losses. the convention will be a nightmare for him and tom if they dont
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
the convention happens
before the season.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
i know it does
… but some cubs fans still think the team might be good next year so THeo and company need to admit they are rebuilding so the fans dont get all butt hurt when the team sucks, i bet they lose 100 games and Tom is saying he is excited for next season lol
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
I'll bet you $50 to Cubs charities
that the Cubs don’t lose 100 games. In fact, I’ll bet you that they don’t lose 90 games.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Rec for charity ref
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
Wow, I'm pretty tempted to take the 90 loss bet.
I don’t know what you’re seeing on this team that will get them more than 70 wins. Talent wise, this team is much worse than last years
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
well,
come on then.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
2006 Cubs went 66-96
which featured a rotation that included
-Z
-Maddux
-Marshall
-Hill
-Marmol/Rusch/Mateo/Prior
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2006.shtml
use that as your bet gauge fellas.
RIP Slim - January 5, 2012
oh
and the next season we finished first and went to the postseason.
RIP Slim - January 5, 2012
the power of 50 gajillion dollars
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
yeah
we landed soriano and lilly if i remember right.
Maybe money DOES buy you happiness.
RIP Slim - January 5, 2012
We know it buys you a dude we're desperate to unload a few short years later
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Rocky Cherry?
yeah. he was awful.
RIP Slim - January 5, 2012
How dare you forget the great Mark Derosa.
And they also added Marquis and Cliff Floyd.
Dcr18 - January 5, 2012
If he explodes in Miami or does something to get him suspended or whatnot...
Do the Cubs still have to pay him?
Arbusto - January 5, 2012
As soon as the trade goes thru
the Cubs are not paying him. He is on the Marlins payroll. The money gets paid to the Marlins.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
im pretty sure the cubs pay the checks when they are do
… same happened with the mariners and carlos silva. the cubs dont just send a check for 15 million dollars, so if he gets banned the cubs will save some money
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
Incorrect
No matter how the Marlins and Cubs work out a payment plan, Z is on the Marlins payroll and whether or not he gets suspended, the Cubs would still be on the hook to pay the full amount to the Marlins.
MLB would not approve it otherwise.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
Got a link that says that chief?
… theres no way a team could profit from another team paying a players salary if the player gets suspended.
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
The Cubs are NOT paying his salary
How many times do I have to say this?
They are paying an amount to the Marlins that is equal to his salary in order to facilitate the trade. Got it? Good.
If the Marlins fine Zambrano for damaging a Gatorade machine, the Cubs do not get a rebate.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
Yes they are. Got it? Good!
… When Z is due his check on June 1, the Cubs will pay the Marlins their share of what he is owed and the Marlins will add wut they need and cut him a check. 15 million earns alot of interest and ur crazy to think the cubs just ship 15 million over when the trade happens. Z will be a liability on the Cubs balance sheet this season in the amount of 15 million dollars and the dollars are paid when they become due.
Got it? Good! How many times do I have to say this? lol
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
Clueless
You clearly do not understand how the transfer of contracts work. When the trade is approved, Z is under contract to the Marlins and the responsibility of paying his salary becomes theirs. This has nothing to do with the payment the Cubs make to the Marlins in order to get them to take over his contract.
You think the MLB players union would accept what you are suggesting? It would open the gates for all sorts of collusion and shenanagans. No way MLB would allow that.
I am done jousting with you, you have no idea what you are talking about.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
Then why when A-rod opted out of his 1st contract
… did the Rangers save over 20 million?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3084583
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
that's different
from being suspended.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
the point is the cubs make the payments when they are due
… the rangers didnt send over the money to the yankees when A-rods trade went thru and neither will the cubs…they will pay their share when it is due, and if Z gets suspended, nothing will be due, so no money will be sent.
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
I don't think it works that way.
If a player opts out of his contract, he’s opting to not play. If a player is suspended, he’s being disciplined non-voluntarily. And given that Z just got back 24 days payment for his 30 day suspension, you think the Marlins would be willing to be on the hook for that 2.4 mill? The Cubs will pay if Z is suspended, I believe.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
i dont think theyd have to
but what evs, somewhere there gotta be rules written about money transfers this big. Imagine wut 15 million earns in interest over 12 months
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
I'm sure
it’s not a single $15 million check.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
regardless if your argument is valid or not...
it makes you look a lot less credible by using “wut” and what evs constantly, or ever for that matter.
epsilon - January 5, 2012
lol!
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Brosef, AZJazzman is a TREMENDOUS douchebag, but he's right on this.
Zambrano isn’t receiving a check in the mail from the Cubs.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
KNOCK OFF THE APT DESCRIPTIONS!!!
shoemile - January 5, 2012
No, the check is from the Marlins...
But the Marlins are receiving the same sized check simultaneously from the Cubs.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
… The cubs pay their share of his salary when it is earned, not all up front
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
Stop the namecalling
Josh Timmers - January 5, 2012
Nah, I'm gonna have to call Azjazzman a douche whenever I feel the need.
You wanna ban me for that, go right ahead.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
NOOOOO
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
This is Christmas night all over again.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
It's the middle of the afternoon you douche!
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
A-Rod was signing a new contract with the Yankees
No parallel whatsoever.
The fact that you insert this into the discussion just underlines that you are clueless.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
u miss the point about how the rangers were paying a piece
… of A-rods salary after they traded him to NY..when he opted out, it terminated the contract texas was still paying on which meant texas didnt have to pay anymore. By your rationale, texas wouldas sent all that money to the yanks and when he opted out, NY woulda pocketed the cash.
Clueless?? Go fuck urself u arrogant prick
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
You are just plain dumb
Don’t know why I bother.
If the Marlins decide to sign Zambrano to a new contract sometime during 2012, and they make one of the terms of the new contract to forgive remaining payments (if any) from the Cubs, then you have a point.
Otherwise, it is just more hot air from you.
azjazzman - January 5, 2012
Blow me
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
carlos zambrano: causing chaos in chicago
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
*still causing
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
All part of his sinister master plan?
Rusty in Peoria - January 5, 2012
This thread is awesome.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
Cant.......look......away
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
agree
Hammer - January 5, 2012
Get your popcorn
Although, I can’t say I’ll miss azjazzman once the banhammer comes down.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
chit0wn too
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
he started it by calling me clueless and dumb
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
Yes, you're right, my bad.
However, you’re smart enough to not stoop to that level.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Smarts go out the window with that guy
…. he doesn’t treat anyone w/ respect so why should anyone be nice to him?
I stand by wut i said. He’s not even a Cubs fan so fuck him
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
...
Say Ramrod - January 5, 2012
Wowie Zowie
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
there have been quite a few lately
Cubbie-Tim - January 5, 2012
wait.
The Cubs pay the MARLINS. The Marlins don’t sign that check over to Z. They deposit the money and pay Z out of their own funds. If they suspend Z, the Cubs are still on the hook for the payment, whether it’s a lump sum, a yearly deposit or a monthly payment.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
That depends on how this deal is worded...
We may never know unless it comes down to that. If the deal is “Cubs will pay 100% of Zambrano’s 2012 salary and the Marlins will pay 100% of Volstad’s salary,” the Cubs certainly have a leg to stand on if he is suspended without pay for a period of time.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
And if you have a mortgage on your home...you are NOT making a payment on your house.
You are paying an amount to the lien holder that is equal to a quotient of the principle and time with interest.
santoswoodenlegs - January 5, 2012
Don't you read? He doesn't NEED to support his claims!
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Exactly right
We should know by now that his brilliance makes supporting his claims irrelevant. As we saw from his earlier statement about Z being a dependable 200 inning starter, AZ creates his own reality!
bluekoolaide - January 5, 2012
LOL and Rec'd
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
lol
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
I'm fairly certain that when a team trades a player...
…and agrees to pay a portion of the player’s remaining salary, the former team isn’t responsible for paying the salary until it’s paid to the player. From an accounting perspective, rather than Zambrano being considered a financial liability for 2012, the Marlins become that liability, and the financial obligation to the Marlins is paid down as Zambrano’s salary becomes due. In the age of deferred compensation and compound interest, there’s no way the Cubs would be foolish enough to cut a check for $15MM when they could pay it over time — Hence, The Time Value of Money.
If Zambrano is suspended without pay, I seriously doubt the Cubs would still be on the hook for whatever salary he loses. How could the Marlins justify demanding payment from the Cubs for salary that isn’t paid to the player?
calicubfan - January 5, 2012
thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
Further.... I'd think owners
would be really hesitant to do any trades where they were “eating” some of the salary if they had to cut the check that day.
I mean… what happened today??
Theo called TR and said: "We’ve got a deal with Miami. We’re eating money, like you agreed, but getting a SP in return. So once the physicals are taken and it’s final……… I’m going to need you to get a cashier’s check, payable to: “Miami Marlins Baseball Club” in the amount of $15M. And they’ll cash it tomorrow."
fsuapollo - January 5, 2012
I just love the comments of the past few days.
Every time Z blew up, these pages were full of “get rid of him.” Now, it seems that half of the comments are waxing nostalgic and wished the Cubs could have kept him.
What about Z makes some of us wistfully look back at his career? One damn no-hitter?
This is a great example of talent wasted. Good riddance.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - January 5, 2012
If you're all sentimental about it.... you can root for the Marlins
SackMan - January 5, 2012
A few more details on the Zambrano deal, tweeted by Ken Rosenthal
Tweet #1:
Tweet #2:
Tweet #3:
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
the gift that keeps on giving
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
good for him.
any one of us would do the same.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
I personally wouldn't have quit on my team, and done enough to get suspended AGAIN
But that’s just me.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Good for him?
How is it good for him to get the equivalent of a paid vacation for abhorently bad behavior?
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
positive reinforcement!
oh wait..
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
it's absolutely good for him.
to get money that he wasn’t going to? Cmon.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Ok, yes, it is good for *him* to get that money
You seemed to be congratulating him, though.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
I am.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Why? It's money he doesn't deserve.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
congratulations on acting like a four year old who didn't get the shiny toy he wanted!
way to go!
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
so?
if you had an opportunity to get 2.4 million dollars you didn’t deserve, wouldn’t you go for it?
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
If someone stole 2.4 M from you, would you congratulate them?
What if they stole it from your neighbor?
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
I would think "steal" is slightly inaccurate. Zambrano is the Bernie Madoff of the Cubs
he “conned” them out of it.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
YOU'RE INCONSISTENT!
Meatball
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
No I'm not. I still wouldn't applaud bank robbers
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
How about shortchange artists?
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Nah, though I do applaud those dudes who have like three cups and a ball and they move the cups real fast and hide the ball.
Those guys are cool
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
How about Three Card Monte?
Where’s the bee? Where’s the bee?
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
I would also applaud them.
But not bank robbers, Bernie Madoff, or Carlos Zambrano
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
How about open-air market vendors?
CD? DVD? Looka-looka! Cheepah for you!
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
I will have to consider and get back to you
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
how
exactly is it stealing? The Cubs said “we’re not paying you for 30 days”. Zambrano appealed, or whatever, and they settled on not getting paid for six days. The Cubs agreed to it. It’s not stealing when you agree to it.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
The analogy was imperfect
But you were ok with the “didn’t deserve part”.
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Probably, but I'm not giving plaudits to bank robbers either
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Or swindlers, apparently
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Maybe, but only if I thought I deserved it.
OTOH, I wouldn’t think someone would congratulate me for it.
BDR529 - January 5, 2012
seriously?
“Here, I want to give you 2.4 million dollars to settle this dispute.” You wouldn’t take that?
He got his money. Good for him. Move on.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
There is a clear difference between what you're saying and what your arguing for.
No one is saying they wouldn’t do what Zambrano did. However, no one else would expect a round of applause when they did it, which you’re giving Zambrano for some reason.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
I'm happy for him.
He’s going to a team that wants him, he’s getting paid all that money, he’s going to work for a friend, and he was able to convince his old job to give him $2.4 million (which, by the way, belongs to no one on this board).
Good for him.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Do you not understand how commerce works?
Normally I wouldn’t argue this ridiculous point, but you sucked me into it by saying it over and over. The Cubs got that $2.4 million from somewhere. Its a safe bet that the money came from revenue generated from – wait for it – ticket sales, television ad buys and the the like. In other words, the fans. They may not control that money any more, but they can certainly say they would have like to have seen their money spent in a different manner.
I’ve seen you make this bullshit argument before…often. It’s your last vestage, when you run out of anything else remotely compelling to argue about. It’s dumb and lazy every time.
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
wow that sucks, it's like the bad icing on a bad cake the Cubs have to eat :(
cooliogirl47 - January 5, 2012
Hmmmmm
So maybe the Cubs paid him for the days he would have been off but didn’t pay him for the six days he would have started during that 30-day period.
Julio Zuleta's Voodoo - January 5, 2012 via mobile
That cool $2.4 million should cover his moving costs.
daver - January 5, 2012
Comeback Player of the Year Award
here
I would love to see the write-up for Z winning that award.
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
re-emerged
like, say… a gopher?
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
Most of the Comback write-ups speak of injuries
Zambrano’s would begin with “After being bat-crap crazy for the past 5 season, Carlos began 2012…”
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
I just pictured Big Z digging and dragging himself out...
…from under the pitcher’s mound like a reanimated zombie.
daver - January 5, 2012
after being dead and buried for a while with the other zombies
“We stinks” is a very fitting comment.
EalyEagle - January 5, 2012
wow - seeing how the tenor of the comments in this post has changed in the last hour or so...
…makes me think Z is getting the last laugh here.
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
Thinking the exact same thing.
It’s kinda like in Ghostbusters 2 when the guys get covered by that slime and all start turning on each other. We’ve got to get a hold of ourselves!
daver - January 5, 2012
I'm making some popcorn.
Would you like some?
katie casey - January 5, 2012
Please. Thank you.
I’ve got some homemade chocolate chip oatmeal cookies I can share in return.
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
My, how civil.
Yes, yes, quite civil indeed.
Steven Schweickert - January 5, 2012
Would you like some tea?
I have Earl Grey or Chamomile.
katie casey - January 5, 2012
Earl Grey please.
And might I perchance request a crumpet, if it would not be too much trouble?
Steven Schweickert - January 5, 2012
Crumpets are for sissy maries!
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
How about a nice scone then?
katie casey - January 5, 2012
Blueberry please
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
That's good
Cranberry too
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
cinnamon chip and maple-nut from Starbucks....yum
cooliogirl47 - January 5, 2012
For those bacon lovers out there
I saw some once with bacon and date. Sounds disgusting to me though.
katie casey - January 5, 2012
I saw bacon toothpicks once :)
cooliogirl47 - January 5, 2012
On occasion I get popcorn for my wife from the theatre
even though we have a popper at home -
Hammer - January 5, 2012
Stop the emotion
Baseball is business. With this deal, the Cubs get a pitcher who is vastly inferior to Z — both with respect to career stats and potential over the next few years — at a whopping $15-mil price. New management had an opportunity to say, ‘OK, you have one more chance’ and give it a shot. I’m not impressed, unfortunately.
NYShep - January 5, 2012
fool me once, shame on you
fool me twice, shame on me
fool me five times…
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
and you get to sleep with Jim Hendry's wife...
because you are Jim Hendry.
santoswoodenlegs - January 5, 2012
shame on NBF??
Hammer - January 5, 2012
One could say Volstad is vastly inferior to Z with respect to his career stats...
…even though it’s a pretty imperfect comparison given their respective ages and service time. But I don’t see how Volstad is vastly inferior going forward.
daver - January 5, 2012
Honestly
I think Volstad has much more upside moving forward than Zambrano. I think Volstad will surprise a number of us.
wild bill - January 5, 2012
My prediction for Volstad in 2012 is a 4.07 ERA and better peripherals than Zambrano.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
So the 25 year old that posted identical stats to Zambrano last year
That is controlled for 3 more years as a cost controlled asset has no potential to outperform Z? Mmkay.
You realize Volstad has some pretty good stuff, good enough to be ranked the #40 prospect in baseball in 2007 and #58 in 2008 before he was called up to Miami.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
^^THIS^^
We trade a guy on the decline (and who is part of the past problems of this franchise) for a guy who is cost controlled and young.
It’s great to see a GM who finally knows how to build a ballclub.
BDR529 - January 5, 2012
Good trade
Not withstanding Zambrano’s issues, this move is in line with the earlier trades. Volstad a former first round pick (16th overall) is only 25. Stewart also a former ist round pick (10th overall) only 26. Weathers, age 26, Sappelt age 25 and 19 year old Ronald Torreyes all still quite young. I find the Torreyes pick up interesting.
The comps with others at Volstad age are quite impressive. Albeit he has not blossomed as of yet, there is much hope that with aging and expierence he will turn out to be a winner.
wild bill - January 5, 2012
I totally agree, wb.
deadcatbounce - January 5, 2012
Hey some common sense in a sea of insanity. All kidding aside, I really like what is happening here. They are getting players that very well could be hitting their prime years of their career.
If you look at both Volstad and Stewart, their comps for other players at their age are pretty impressive. I understand neither one has really taken the league by storm. But they have at minimum hung around made the big leagues and hopefully they will take it to the next level with the Cubs.
wild bill - January 6, 2012
OT: Anyone playing SWTOR?
Emelie? Dan?
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Nope. I waste my time on one game at a time ;-)
Emelie - January 5, 2012
what is it?
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Star Wars: the Old Republic.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Volstad
I am a Cub fan living in Palm Beach Gardens FL Watched Volstad pitch in H. S. and with the Marlin This is a steal 95 mph fastball Good sinker this kid can be GREAT
FlCub - January 5, 2012
Thus being
selected in the first round with the 16th overall pick. There was a reason.
wild bill - January 5, 2012
He went to Notre Dame?
santoswoodenlegs - January 5, 2012
Nobody's perfect.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
Update: The Oz Man Cometh
Gordon Twittermeyer just tweeted a few interesting notes on the trade. Not surprisingly, Ozzie was heavily involved:
So…say what you want about Ozzie but, for better or worse, he helped get this done.
daver - January 5, 2012
That help cements my opinion of him as one hell of an idiot.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
All the baseball things I loathe in one convenient location...
BDR529 - January 5, 2012
Here, I'll contribute something not trollish-
This is a fun column by Rosenthal on Ozzie.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
Does it illustrate what a collosal moron Ozzie is?
Because if it doesn’t I have no interest in it.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
He gets in a really good shot at Ozzie.
South Side Expat - January 5, 2012
Yeah I don't buy it, I'm willing to be you're trying to rickroll me
and this is one of those “Isn’t Ozzie fun?” columns
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Gotta give Robo-thal credit...
…that is a pretty creative twist he put on his column.
daver - January 5, 2012
Big Z can never be replaced!!!
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ubercubsfan - January 5, 2012
I guess it's not surprising ...
that the Zambrano trade thread would get kinda nasty. Appropriate.
elgato - January 5, 2012
SHOVE OFF, EG
shoemile - January 5, 2012
LAY OFF EG UNLESS YOU WANT A KNUCKLE SANDWICH ON THE HOUSE, BRO
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
LOL.
You guys just cracked me up.
elgato - January 5, 2012
I need to start posting often again.
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Just call shoemile
“Scut Farkus”
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
If I'm Scut then you're my little troll sidekick
shoemile - January 5, 2012
I thought South Side Expat was the troll ...
elgato - January 5, 2012
Then who the hell is Ralphie?
shoemile - January 5, 2012
Al.
Duh.
elgato - January 5, 2012
Be sure to drink your Ovaltine, Al.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Bumpuses!!!!!!!!
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
I just shot my eye out!!
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHDDDDGGGGEEE
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
Only I didn't say, "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHDDDDGGGGEEE "
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Can I be the leg lamp?
daver - January 5, 2012
Done and done.
elgato - January 5, 2012
Yes, absolutely.
Any volunteers to be the Mom and break daver?
shoemile - January 5, 2012
Shouldn't it be Josh?
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Why?
elgato - January 5, 2012
Because Al is the Dad, the other Blogger for this site should be the mom
Plus, Josh did tell me today to stop calling people names, and then jammed a bar of soap in my mouth.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Ah.
Can I be the little brother? That way, I could point and laugh at you in the bunny suit.
elgato - January 5, 2012
No that's the guy who draws the comics.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
Who is the kid in the Amelia Earhart outfit?
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
You, probably.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
Damn you, shoe
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Is that the one that likes the Wizard of Oz?
katie casey - January 5, 2012
And Santa
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
I want to be the guy who tells Ralphie to go to the back of the line
He’s also the story’s narrator, Jean Shepherd.
EalyEagle - January 5, 2012
Yeah, but you'll be stuck on the ground...
…in the snowsuit, too.
daver - January 5, 2012
I usually am.
elgato - January 5, 2012
You eat like a little piggy too.
katie casey - January 5, 2012
Oink, oink, oink.
elgato - January 5, 2012
Aw snap
Nunya is going to go blind from soap poisoning.
Craig in South Bend - January 5, 2012
Maybe
I got to say being on this site is good training for being a parent.
Josh Timmers - January 5, 2012
My son is in trouble then!
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
Bring it!
daver - January 5, 2012
I'll just shut him off to save electricity.
katie casey - January 5, 2012
You must be Italian!
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Is half Greek close enough?
daver - January 5, 2012
How do you say "Fra-Geeel-Ay" in Greek?
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
according to free translation
εύθραυστη
katie casey - January 5, 2012
Effing foreigners! That looks like scribbles!
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Another thread of civility due?
ubercubsfan - January 5, 2012
What an interesting idea, uber!
I appreciate your insight!
elgato - January 5, 2012
Such a fine chap, you are.
Keep fighting the good fight, sir.
ubercubsfan - January 5, 2012
you're both meatballs
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA I blew it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
What a jovial man you are, Nunya!
And I do love meatballs! Are you offering us some?
elgato - January 5, 2012
Curses!
Foiled again
(twists mustache)
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
You do have a full and handsome mustache, Nunya!
You must have good genes!
elgato - January 5, 2012
also good jeans
they show off me bum
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
I've heard good things!
elgato - January 5, 2012
TOO MUCH CIVILITY
ME ANGRY
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
Anger is healthy, Jesus.
To your health!
elgato - January 5, 2012
Where do you stand on the term "rebuild"?
BECAUSE I’M STANDING ON THE OTHER SIDE.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
REBUILD MAKE ME ANGRY. ME WANT THIS GUY
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
"Why can't I get a 10-year deal?!"
“I WANT A 10-YEAR DEAL!!!”
daver - January 5, 2012
At least his bats are treated well...
Unlike his body.
ubercubsfan - January 5, 2012
I love how he's all
HULK SMASH one second and then it’s almost “look at the fine workmanship on this bat!”
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
"Yessss....we loves my bat.... my precious.... yessss"
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
I liked when
he tried to beat up the bench with his butt.
tomas21 - January 5, 2012
I love meatballs with my spaghetti.
Thanks for asking!
ubercubsfan - January 5, 2012
Alas.
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
This nice gentleman is offering us meatballs.
He is very kind.
ubercubsfan - January 5, 2012
So, because I'm Italian I should like meatballs?
Methinks it’s a personal attack1!1
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
If I wasn't being so civil right now, I'd say DEAL WITH IT!!@!@!!!!!!!11
ubercubsfan - January 5, 2012
You, shoe and el are groupthinking
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
This isn't Rome!
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
Rec'd
Although Naples is smaller
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Indeed!
Cheerio!
elgato - January 5, 2012
I won't miss him.
sue369 - January 5, 2012
Rec'd
The most perfect post in over 2000 comments.
BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness - January 6, 2012
Here's the thing
If Zambrano had been beset by physical problems not mental problems his career would we be so quick to say good riddance?
I believe he might have an actual illness and if he does it is no different than a player having his career ruined or damaged by a bad knee.
The problem is a bad leg is easy to find on an xray or MRI. Surgery is done and in time he’s back.
I hear ridiculous saying the Cubs couldn’t win with him. Well he was part of more winning than any Cub besides Kerry Wood this half of this century. 3 division titles and 2 other plus 500 seasons. But do we hear the Cubs couldn’t win with fan favorites Sandberg or Grace?
As far as Kaplan and such claiming players tell them these things. Anonomous players saying things behind a teammates back. Real classy folks.
puckishcubsfan - January 5, 2012
If there was a player dumping on Z behind his back, wouldn't shock me if it was Wood.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
Nah.
I bet it’s Dempster.
elgato - January 5, 2012
Is it any more classy than showing up your teammates on the field...
…fighting them in the dugout or walking out on them completely?
I’m sorry but the idea that Z gets a mulligan for all of his terrible behavior based on the idea that he has some kind of mental problem just doesn’t cut it for me. When I look at Z I see an overgrown man child who’s been enabled way too long by management, his agent, etc.
bluekoolaide - January 5, 2012
I don't disagree with you.
elgato - January 5, 2012
some people have mental problems.
some people are just idiots. I feel as though Zambrano is one of the idiots.
epsilon - January 5, 2012
No, I don't agree with this.
I do think Z has some psychological issues. He was asked to go to anger management in 2009, for example. There could have been more, we don’t know.
It’s clear that those problems are not under control.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Maybe he has legitmate psychological issues and maybe he doesn't...
…none of us can really know for sure. But no matter what the reasons are, at what point does the individual have to take some responsibility for his own situation? Z., had ample opportunity to do this and didn’t. Luckily, Theo seemed to figure this out a lot more quickly than previous regimes did.
bluekoolaide - January 5, 2012
And please
And please everyone. If he was winning 20 a season we wouldn’t care what else he did.
But on the flip side I think part of his problem is frustration with himself so he wouldn’t be as frustrated if he was winning.
puckishcubsfan - January 5, 2012
I’m not saying your wrong, but I will say he wasn’t. So that’s a pretty poor analogy. He approached 20 wins exactly once.
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
Well, that makes it right
Aside from the fact that this isn’t true. There were a handful of posters calling him out on this crap when he was decent. And those posters got ripped on by another handful.
And has been documented, he got on TEAMMATES, not just himself.
Shanghai Badger - January 5, 2012
Excellent thread
Would read again.
A++
Arbusto - January 5, 2012
...
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
its amazing
how people put sound effects into letters..
not the letters i would have chosen but funny none the less
RIP Slim - January 5, 2012
...
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
You are funny today
tomas21 - January 5, 2012
Not sure if this has been posted yet.
http://twitter.com/#!/CSNMooney/status/155026419511066625
Theo: “Every player that I talked to articulated to me that Carlos had really violated their trust.”
elgato - January 5, 2012
BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO WANTED TO WIN!!!!
Why don’t you meatballs understand this?
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
like I said in the other thread
I bet Chris Volstad cares more than a little about winning, too.
EalyEagle - January 5, 2012
It's funny ...
I remember some posters, a few months back, saying how professional baseball players would have no problem accepting Zambrano back because it would be the best thing for the team, or something.
I suppose Theo could be ginning up what players said, but still …
elgato - January 5, 2012
Would seem to be a dangerous topic to lie about
Nunyabidness - January 5, 2012
And if he's already worrying about spinning stuff to make himself (or his actions) look better...
…then we definitely have the wrong guy for the job.
ballhawk - January 5, 2012
There's lying ...
and there’s amping something up, you know? And I’m not saying Theo’s lying.
elgato - January 5, 2012
I can't imagine
he’d lie about it.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
I like me some meatballs
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
This made me laugh.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
i like how theo says this stuff after he trades the guy
not before
he’s soooo anti-hendry
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
First Michele Bachmann and now Carlos Zambrano...
I can’t stop crying.
WBdogs1 - January 5, 2012
rofl
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
LOL!!
sue369 - January 5, 2012
Even though you mentioned a politician here..
…. that was funny.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
sigh
santoswoodenlegs - January 5, 2012
I'm so distraught
I’m going to buy my dog a pair of sunglasses.
Josh Timmers - January 5, 2012
Jon Stewart approves.
fsuapollo - January 5, 2012
that was a great opening
watched it twice
Hammer - January 5, 2012
That's a matched pair of crazy bookends right there
RiskyBusiness - January 6, 2012
So long Z
Thanks for the memories; good and bad!
calicubfan - January 5, 2012
good riddance
I think this will work out better for both sides, zambrano and the cubs. I believe zambrano will pitch much better next year and have zero outbursts. Why? Because I think his buddy ozzie is the only manager in the league that can handle him.
As for the cubs I think this proves that this is theo’s team and this organization will operate differently in the future. No more beer and chicken days for theo, this is a new team to him and he wants to have control over the players and their actions.
dcox38 - January 5, 2012
My Lord $30,000,000 for Albert Pujols' services when hes 41 years of age.
Wow.
dtpollitt - January 5, 2012
pujols got the Jim Hendry Special
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
he gets 1 mil
when he’s 51!
tomas21 - January 5, 2012
As an employee of the Angels, not because of deferred payments.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
I know, but still!
tomas21 - January 6, 2012
Yeah, but let's just say he becomes a hitting instructor... he's already getting paid the $1 million and has a signed contract.
I’d assume that $1 million is worth a hell of a lot less in 2032 than it is today. Plus if he doesn’t work for the Angels they don’t have to pay him.
The way they wrote the contract is genius, actually. It gives them a lot of outs, and it also has the opportunity to have money paid to Pujols not count against the luxury tax. I think the Yankees and other major market teams will take a VERY hard look at these types of agreements in the coming years.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Not many hitting
instructors will be getting 10 year/10 mil contracts, even in 2032.
tomas21 - January 7, 2012
My big compliment to Carlos......
I have always appreciated the way Big Z hustled to first base when he hit a ground ball to the infield. In many cases, that seems to be a lost art.
deadcatbounce - January 5, 2012
Theo hit it spot on when he said even if Zambrano worked out this year he’d still be a free agent. Unfortunately Hendry’s hands were tied because he gave Big Z the contract and probably couldn’t justify dumping him and eating the money. Great move though and oddly saves a little money. I’m a little nervous though because I’m not sure if we even have someone who can replace what little Z has contributed as of late. Now we all have to pray to whatever it is we believe in that Theo can get rid of our left fielder.
gocubscubswin - January 5, 2012
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0106-cubs-chicago—20120106,0,4944992.story?track=rss
i’m interested to hear what garza specifically said about z; he seems like a guy that wouldn’t hold anything back
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
Interesting that he polled Byrd.
That likely means Byrd is staying.
Al Yellon - January 5, 2012
Or just that he respected his opinion as a veteran
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
Pretty much.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
yeah
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
Possibly.
He also polled Garza. Maybe he still would trade them, but still thinks they’d know what was best to do about Z whether they are there or not.
Dcr18 - January 5, 2012
No more Dave Duncan
https://twitter.com/JoeStrauss/status/155105522620698628
Unfortunately it’s for family reasons, but this helps the Cubs.
Adam U - January 5, 2012
God bless the man for taking care of his wife 1st
chit0wn - January 5, 2012
I hate that this is the reason he has to step down....
But I’m so glad he’s not the Cards pitching coach anymore.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
Man that sucks.
Talk about one of the best. Every year that man molds a pitching staff that rivals everybody’s and he usually does it out of leftovers, scraps, and has beens.
dtpollitt - January 6, 2012
Carlos, Ozzie and Hanley Ramirez on the same team.
One thing for sure is that the Miami Marlins won’t be boring this year.
jeffmills1972 - January 5, 2012
Epstein weighs in...
…here
All but says that this is a trade for one year of Z versus three years of cost controlled Volstad and hope for upside.
Finally, a good GM for my favorite team.
BDR529 - January 5, 2012
I love calculus
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
Theo must not do much math... I don't see calculus in that.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
Yeah.
The math made perfect sense to me so clearly it wasn’t calculus.
shoemile - January 5, 2012
I took a business calculus class in college
And the question on a test was regarding the value of land at X per acre, and it was A acres long, B acres wide, and had a river as a boundary that ran at an angle of delta to something stupid calculusy.
At the end of the day, I sat there and knew I had no shot at this one, so I simply wrote, “Why would anyone look at a lot of land that they had to figure out the acreage of?” I got half credit. I probably still failed that test though.
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
...
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
i literally laughed, good job
Cubbie-Tim - January 5, 2012
Oh.
Well, the new season of Jersey Shore premiered tonight. Jesus Christos live tweeted the whole thing.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
LOL
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 6, 2012
I don't think that makes alot of sense
He should have just said that too many bridges have been burned and he thinks the Cubs are better off cutting ties with Carlos Zambrano now. Then he could have gone-on to say that he’s excited to see what Chris Volstad can bring to the table.
Don’t know how to phrase it, but treating the $18 million as a sunk cost under a scenario where keeping Zambrano in 2012 would have worked seems contradictory. Or, inferring that the 3 years of being able to control Volstad is sensible, even though the first of those 3 years is going to cost the franchise $18 million, sounds kind of silly.
The chances of things working-out with Zambrano weren’t good and would have been even less because of wanting to deal him at the deadline.
AboutTheCubs - January 5, 2012
Theo
didn’t want to make it about Z. He wanted to make it about the team, and the team getting better.
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
God bless the United States of America.
lexmarklover - January 5, 2012
America!
Fuck yeah!
Dcr18 - January 5, 2012
For me, this is very bittersweet.
Z’s antics, unfortunately, have overshadowed his on-field flashes of brilliance. I was at the first start he made after punching Barrett in 2007, and that still is one of the best individual pitching performances I’ve ever seen. That being said, Z had far too many issues to count. And Al, I actually think you’re missing three of them—firstly, last year, when he called out the Cubs for playing poorly when it was more on the manager than on the Cubs, and back in 2007, when he came charging out of the dugout during Derrek Lee’s on-field fracas with Chris Young. I remember thinking Z must have been changing his belt. It was trailing behind him like a tail. And the third one was when he destroyed the Gatorade machine in the dugout.
The sad thing is, he had so much potential. He just lost his cool far too often. I will still think and remember the good things he did, but when anyone asks me to talk about Zambrano, the first thing I will think about is all the anger and tantrums he had. I wish this wasn’t the case, because of all the good things he did, but it’s true.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 5, 2012
One more reason to already like Chris Volstad
Not Kyle Farnsworth, but he was ready to go.
RiskyBusiness - January 5, 2012
Is that Mike Jacobs with a clothesline?
bdlugz - January 5, 2012
gaby sanchez
jesus christos - January 5, 2012
what will be really funny
is if Volstad talks to himself and beats up drink dispensers…
drewishdrewid - January 5, 2012
By him not being Kyle Farnsworth,
Does that mean he has never punched a fan in the locker room?
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 6, 2012
friendly wager
who you got first
volstad and nyjer fight
or
Z and Ozzie fight
RIP Slim - January 6, 2012 via Android app
we all
knew big z could’nt come back.it was time and everyone knew it. thanks to ozzy because no one else in baseball would take this guy.good luck z it was never dull i will say that.and theo you’re certainly a far cry from jim hendry.
NOMAR - January 6, 2012
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