Denis Poroy - Getty Images
Anthony Rizzo of the San Diego Padres hits a double against the Atlanta Braves at Petco Park in San Diego, California. (Photo by Denis Poroy/Getty Images)
Well, here's a story to take our minds off, um, other events of the day. It's been tweeted by several reporters; here's one from Bruce Miles:
@BruceMiles2112
Bruce Miles#Cubs get 1B Anthony Rizzo and P prospect Zach Cates for Andrew Cashner and OF prospect Kyung-Min Na in trade with Padres
FavoriteRetweet
It's clear to me that Theo and Jed expect Rizzo to be the Cubs' starting first baseman, given the status of Andrew Cashner as a possible key part of the rotation or bullpen for 2012; you wouldn't give up someone like that unless you thought the return was going to be a starting player.
Rizzo clearly has big upside at his age (just 22) and he is familiar to both Theo & Jed, since Theo traded him to Jed last offseason as part of the Adrian Gonzalez deal.
I don't know much about Na nor Cates; perhaps Josh can fill in those details.
Talk about a rebuild -- man, now we have a rebuild. Have at it.
0 recs | 886 comments
Beautiful!
lexmarklover - January 6, 2012
It happened.
daver - January 6, 2012
haha
lexmarklover - January 6, 2012
lol
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 7, 2012
well, Cubs didn't seem to know what to do with Cashner - I trust they know what to do with Rizzo...
I know what I’m going to do – spend more time on Sheffield!
ballhawk - January 6, 2012
So you're saying no Fielder?
Got it.
Fukudometer - January 6, 2012
Boras has got to be livid now
His market just took a dive.
cubbybear - January 6, 2012
He's probably hoping the Darvish deal falls through.
daver - January 6, 2012
Though I doubt the Cubs will get Fielder...
It doesn’t mean they’re out of the picture. Rizzo is young enough to spend another year or two working on the hole in his swing. And if Fielder took a short contract (or had an opt-out clause), there might not be much overlap between them.
That being said, I have doubted all along that the cubs would get Fielder.
varrys - January 7, 2012
i'm curious to see what the padres do with cashner
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Closer after 2012, I'll bet.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
I wish it were Marmol going instead of Cashner
But I wish for a lot of things.
Reddevil - January 6, 2012
Agreed
SoCal19 - January 6, 2012
where in So Cal??
Hammer - January 6, 2012
Yeah, but no chance the Padres take on that salary
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
That's a huge question.
If he turns out to be a reliever, this could be a huge win for the Cubs — assuming Rizzo isn’t a bust.
daver - January 6, 2012
Cashner was never suited to be a starter
He was a reliever in college for a reason. I don’t know why everyone just assumed he’d be this bang up starter.
Itchy - January 6, 2012
That's a highly debatable position.
A team’s best pitching assets have the highest value in the rotation — so Cashner deserved that shot. But…no point getting too into this anymore.
daver - January 6, 2012
Yes
But I’m just very skeptical of drafting a reliever and trying to make him a starter
Itchy - January 6, 2012
I'm not sure it works like that.
I don’t know that a pitcher’s role in college is that big of a determinant on his ultimate role.
daver - January 6, 2012
i think the question would be
why wasn’t he a starter in college? this looks like a huge win for the cubs.
kylejo - January 6, 2012
Because TCU had an incredible starting staff already and he had just transferred in.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
ha
if a bunch of college starters, and i understand purke was one of them, are better than him as a starter, why should he succeed as a starter in the majors?
kylejo - January 6, 2012
He was also the new guy on the team after transferring in...
It was also more than just Purke as well. He was definitely good enough to start for TCU, his stuff was never the question.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
It's not just about who is "better" in college.
TCU’s coach thought his team benefited the most with Cashner as closer. Cashner was a starter his sophomore year at JC. He also was a starter virtually his entire time in the Cub organization.
Another tidbit on college pitchers. When I went to FSU in the late 90s, they had a young kid with talent, but who generally couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. He ended up being a middle reliever because he couldn’t be trusted. His ERA his last year in school was nearly 6. Yes, 6.
That guy got drafted in the FIFTH round and, much to my astonishment, survived for several years in the majors. While not a star… I’d have bet you a bunch he wouldn’t make it past A ball. Here he is. Again… definitely not a star, but he shows that college stats and positions don’t always translate to pro ball effectiveness.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
Your logic is based on the assumption that college coaches are always 100% correct in evaluating talent and determining what's best for the team.
Poloplaya14 - January 7, 2012
I think the key issue was a 3rd pitch
Starters need on, relievers don’t. And I don’t think Casher really had developed a solid 3rd pitch yet.
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
Enough of this falsity!!!!
He was a starter as a sophomore in college. TCU switched him to closer because they liked their starters better.
He started for the Cubs in minors.
He has high-end stuff.
He should at least be tried as a SP. He can always switch to the pen.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
Brace yourself...
…because apparently Theo & Jed disagreed. Bruce Miles also just tweeted that “Hoyer says Cubs saw Cashner as a reliever and that they liked idea of trading for an everyday player.” Oh, well — at least we can put the matter to rest.
daver - January 6, 2012
Trade was a no brainer then.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
Nothing to brace for.
For the most part, I’m just debunking this idea that Cashner has “always” been a reliever that the Cubs were trying to force into being a starter.
And, even if Theo and Jed see him as a reliever…. that doesn’t change my belief that you should take your most talented arms and see if they can be starters.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
I just figured Theo & Jed would see it the same way.
Of course, they have access to medical information and scouting reports that we don’t so…like I said, it’s a relief of sorts (no pun intended) that we finally have our answer.
daver - January 6, 2012
They could also just think
that the secondary pitches will never come around enough to go through a line-up multiple times. And I’d surely defer to them on that.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
I agree
It seems there are only a handful of “freaks” in baseball history who succeed as consistently healthy starters and throw as hard as Cashner is capable of. I am ok with this trade, could be a little hindsight after what happened with Cashners shoulder last year but this could be a huge win for either club. I believe the scales are tipping toward our side though.
Bobudabi - January 6, 2012
Strong throwing and shoulder trouble spell big win for us I believe.
We don’t need a Strasburg.
crackedcactus - January 6, 2012
Frankly...
…I’m a little surprised the Padres made this trade, considering Cashner has already had shoulder problems, which isn’t exactly what you want early on from a power pitcher.
It will take a couple years to see how this trade comes out, but I like it a lot right now.
MPH73 - January 7, 2012
agreed, you have to wonder if any other GM could have pulled this off..
….Theo and Jed’s relationship here played a signifcant factor for sure..
JB 23 - January 7, 2012
I'm sure it did
But also the fact that guys who can hit 100 mph don’t grow on trees played a part.
I think the trade was a good one for us. But the Padres didn’t get crap in Cashner. He’s worth gambling on.
Josh Timmers - January 8, 2012
Looking forward to the 1000 comments on this one...
…from every fan “expert.”
IowaCubs- - January 6, 2012
Hey, isn't that what we do here?
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
Yes, and that's why I come back. :)
IowaCubs- - January 6, 2012
I'm the smartest guy I know
Rainman9856 - January 6, 2012
That must be a horrible burden.
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
LMAO
Bobudabi - January 6, 2012
Clearly you've never met ajazzman.
daver - January 6, 2012
No one "meets" azjazzman.
One might be lucky enough to exist in the same general area as he, but “meet?” A man of his impeccable standing? You forget yourself, sir.
Flatley - January 6, 2012
I guess that explains why his receptionist...
…has had me sitting in his waiting area for the last three years.
daver - January 6, 2012
And with no magazines.
Because you have to google everything.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
lol
Hammer - January 6, 2012
You don't know many people do you? ;)
cub in louies nest - January 6, 2012
Why not 2000?
cubbybear - January 6, 2012
I prefer the term "fanpert", thank you
RiskyBusiness - January 8, 2012
Hell Yes
ryanbaker08 - January 6, 2012
The newsweek keeps going! Big Z. Rizzo. Bears Angelo-Martz-Tice. Wow.
SackMan - January 6, 2012
Tice?!
Crap, behind on my news…
Arbusto - January 6, 2012
got promoted to OC
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
Yeah, saw that.
SOMEBODY TELL ME HOW I SHOULD FEEL?!
Arbusto - January 6, 2012
Feel great! No new playbook for Jay to learn again. Jay's gonna run the offense anyway.
And now, he’ll be allowed to actually call audibles. Gasp. What a concept.
SackMan - January 6, 2012
How does Tice have Martz's playbook?
Has he actually called an offense before?
Arbusto - January 6, 2012
They all have the playbook.
SackMan - January 6, 2012
And they will probably rip half of the pages out.
SackMan - January 6, 2012
Just the 11 step death drops and end around reverses.
Which should then the good 1/4 left.
crackedcactus - January 6, 2012
You mean adjust to the defense?
That’s absolutely nuts, noone but Peyton Manning can comprehend such adjustments.
cubbybear - January 6, 2012
So would you think after watching Lovie year in and year out.
crackedcactus - January 6, 2012
God I hope Irsay isn't stupid enough to hire Martz
I’d like to see Peyton survive his surgery.
cub in louies nest - January 6, 2012
Amused. You should feel very amused.
New GM already has his head coach and now OC selected for him.
ballhawk - January 6, 2012
SMH
shoemile - January 6, 2012
And a roster with precious little young talent and a very aging defense.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
Maybe next year?
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
If not next year...
then probably not for a long time.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
if Forte comes back strong
next year is definitely possible.
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
Yeah...
I’m counting on him for next year. Without him, there is no next year, no matter who is the GM, HC, OC or QB.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
that was made quite clear, yes.
The season had really started going well, too.
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
IMO
The Bears are also in need of a “rebuild”.
The defense can still get it done… but at any point they will get “football old” and plummet. Their 3 best defenders are all over 30. The offense has Cutler, Forte, and a bunch of guys who hope to be average.
That’s not the recipe for tracking down GB or Detroit.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
And yet...
the Bears were the 5 seed before Cutler and Forte went down. That’s a little outside the realm of “every team deals with injuries”.
Detroit rode a weak schedule to the playoffs… that’s all. They’re a mentally weak house of cards including their coach, who can’t handle a slap on the shoulder or control a bunch of dirty, cheating hooligans. They’re talented, but not enough to counteract it blowing up in their face
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
I'm not saying the Bears can't
compete for a playoff spot, but is there any way they could realistically be a Super Bowl contender next year? I don’t see how.
And for me, if you’re not a SB contender, you should be retooling younger.
GB and Detroit are not without weaknesses… but they’re both clearly more talented at this point than the Bears.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
Actually...
Painfully… I don’t think GB has all that many weaknesses. They’re just getting better. Their line will get better with average health. Finley will drop a few less balls. Woodson being a year older is my only concern for them. They looked horrible in the last game against Detroit without him.
This year the Bears were every bit the SB contender GB was the year before. They can be that next year because the Bears are still so strong on defense and special teams. That will continue with health and development from Chris Conte and Major Wright. They can make additions there too, if need be.
They don’t need much from their offense and they were getting more than that most of the time this year. That can happen next year especially with another year for Gabe Carimi and J’Marcus Webb to develop and the rest of the line to gel. (The Bears also lost Chris Williams during the season, in the midst off his best season at guard, and didn’t have Carimi either.)
The lack of an off season really killed the Bears. It didn’t hurt the Lions or, especially, Green Bay. I’m not saying they have many more years left, but there’s at least one more year. I’ll take those chances now that there hopefully won’t be an idiot GM and OC screwing things up constantly.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
GBs defense
is a huge liability.
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
I'd love you to be right, but this looks like rose colored glasses to me.
No. GB had an elite QB, playmakers at WR and TE, a little running game, and a play making D (much better last year than this year).
The Bears have an alright QB, one playmaker on offense who will be coming off a knee injury, a suspect OL, and a solid D.
Sorry, but those aren’t equal.
The OL is still a mess. Webb is completely hit or miss. Carimi had knee issues in college… and then the Bears are stunned when he has knee issues immediately as a pro. Shocking. He’s got ability… but he’s also got “Colombo” written all over him (from an injury stand point). Williams is just a guy.
But overall, the reason I see “less hope” is the reliance on special teams (which have been somewhat mitigated with the kickoff placement change) and a defense that is aging rapidly.
Their 4 best players on D are all on the wrong side of 30. They can still play, but the likelihood of injury and or lessening effectiveness is growing quickly. Melton, Roach, and maybe one of the young safeties (I don’t think they’ll be much, but I suppose they’ve got a shot) are really the only young guys on D who you could realistically project to get better.
I will say that not having an stubborn imbecile at OC will definitely help, as will a new GM. But winning that last worthless game @ MIN cost them 6 or 7 spots in the draft order, dropping them further from the elite talent. I’d actually be in favor of them going all “Patriot” on this draft. Just keep trading down and collect a barrel full of picks for this year and next to bring in new blood.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
You write a lot
Hammer - January 7, 2012
Alright QB?
I’m not even going to dignify that with a concerned response.
Cub Style - January 7, 2012
Well he's certainly not an elite QB.
He’s a notch below the Pro Bowl kind of guy. Nothing wrong with that and you could win a whole lot of games with that if you’ve got a strong line (nope) and playmaking WRs (nope) to complement your strong RB.
QBs obviously better than Cutler: Rodgers, Brees, Brady, P Manning (obviously if healthy)
QBs better than Cutler: Rivers, Roethlisburger, Vick, E Manning
QBs on the same level where you could have a fun argument about who is better: Schaub, Stafford, Romo, Ryan, (I’d put Cutler here), Hasselbeck, Flacco, A Smith
Too soon to tell, but probably better than Cutler: Newton, Dalton, Tebow (I would say hell no, but some would make the argument)
That makes 8 QBs where there really isn’t any case to say Cutler is better. Then another four who I think most people would take ahead of Jay with Newton on the cusp.
So when there are 12 to 13 guys ahead of Cutler… to me, that’s “alright”. But Cutler is literally the least problematic member of the offense (most would say Forte, but you want to see him run again after the injury… besides, he wants out).
fsuapollo - January 7, 2012
Cutler = all right QB
comments like that make you look silly
lookingdeadred - January 7, 2012
Why?
Because you’d prefer me to type all right instead of alright?
fsuapollo - January 7, 2012
no
just admit the obvious he is better, much better, than all right, or alright if you prefer
lookingdeadred - January 7, 2012
I don't need to admit anything.
In my view, Cutler is not a top 10 QB. Period.
You’re welcome to disagree.
If I could edit the original post, I’d change “alright” to “good”, since you’re so hung up on the particular word.
fsuapollo - January 7, 2012
I would put Cutler
over E Manning, Vick and Rivers any day of the week. Cutler has the ability to be elite, I put him in the top ten in the league at least.
drewishdrewid - January 7, 2012
Cutler has talent in spades.
But you’d take him over a guy who won a Super Bowl and had an excellent year, last year’s co-MVP, and a guy who had a horrible year this year but has otherwise been a Pro Bowl level QB for several seasons? I’d have to think the vast majority of NFL personnel would disagree with you there.
This all comes out like I think Cutler sucks. I don’t. At all. He’s gotten the crap kicked out of him for two years and has maintained his composure. He’s the second-best player on the offense. With the slightest of apologies to the Punky QB, Cutler is the best Bear QB in my mid 30s lifetime.
As I noted above… the Bears absolutely can win with Cutler. And I sure hope they do. But I don’t see him as a top 10 QB or a guy who can carry a team to a Super Bowl.
Everyone got all fired up when the Bears won five in a row. You have to play who is in front of you, but they didn’t exactly beat a murderer’s row: MIN, vs TB (on another continent), @ PHI (talented team who had to rally to get to 8-8), vs DET (division foe who played probably their worst game of the season, which the Bear D surely had something to do with), and SD (in the midst of a 6 game losing streak on the way to 8-8).
fsuapollo - January 7, 2012
"He’s the second-best player on the offense. "
who in the world do you think is better? If you say Forte, you really were not paying attention.
lookingdeadred - January 7, 2012
Well I was watching the games
when the Bears were winning and Forte looked like the best player on the field for either team.
I’m not sure which team you were watching.
fsuapollo - January 7, 2012
What happened when Cutler left the lineup?
They lost five in a row. The collapse began when Cutler went down, not Forte. If Cutler plays those five games, they win 3 maybe 4 of them and make the playoffs even without Forte for four (virtually) of them. If Forte had played in those games but with no Cutler, they probably still lose most of those games (see Oakland and KC) and don’t make the playoffs.
It’s a QB’s league, and you do not win without a quality QB, and your objections notwithstanding, Cutler is a top QB. He was clearly the team’s best and most valuable offensive player as evidenced by the collapse of the team after he left the lineup.
lookingdeadred - January 8, 2012
All that shows
is how awful Caleb Hanie was.
It is hard for any RB to run against 8/9 in the box.
I’m well aware that it is a QB league. For the 100th time… I don’t think Cutler is bad, at all. He’s an above average QB.
But I don’t think it is much of a leap to say that Matt Forte is a better RB than Cutler is a QB.
fsuapollo - January 8, 2012
"But I don’t think it is much of a leap to say that Matt Forte is a better RB than Cutler is a QB."
even if true (dubious) it is almost irrelevant. QB is far more important than RB. A team is more likely to win with an all right RB and good QB than an all right QB and a good RB.
Which goes to show how Cutler’s abilities make it a lot easier for Forte to find room to run
lookingdeadred - January 8, 2012
Well now that you've completely moved the goalposts
This question debate started based on whether Cutler was/is a top 10 QB.
Forte is a top 5 RB, which is the comparison I was making, which shows the comparison was hardly “dubious”.
Whether the QB position is more important than the RB is irrelevant to the discussion.
fsuapollo - January 8, 2012
no you claimed Forte is the team's best player
I refuted that
lookingdeadred - January 8, 2012
You haven't refuted anything.
Saying I’m wrong doesn’t prove you right. And actually, you’ve provided not a single fact in this discussion.
Matt Forte is the best player on the Bears’ offense. Since a HS gym teacher is the Bears’ backup QB, Jay Cutler is the most important player on the offense.
And you’re still moving the goalposts.
fsuapollo - January 8, 2012
I don't think Forte is a top 5 back.
L. McCoy
M. Jones-Drew
A. Peterson
R. Rice
A. Foster
Forte wound up with a great YPC at 4.9, and right around 1000 yards at right around 200 carries. He is a top back…. but I think we can both agree that there are more than 5 backs who are clearly better.
D98 - January 9, 2012
debatable
Forte was 2nd I think in total yards when he went down. There are probably five better runners, not sure there are five better all around RBs.
lookingdeadred - January 10, 2012
He's great, regardless.
Hopefully there’s a difference-making WR on the board in the mid-1st round.
You know Michael Floyd will still be there – probably into the 2nd round. There may be an opportunity there, although he doesn’t have the AJ Green straight-line burner speed that the Bears could really use (especially if Knox is done.)
I assume that Blackmon will be gone very early.
D98 - January 10, 2012
Vick?
…..maybe and I mean maybe he is the “same level” bucket.
And please, Flacco, Alex Smith and Hasselback as “same level”? Come on, your anti Jay bias is showing here…Alex Smith is Kyle Orton at best.
JB 23 - January 7, 2012
Your opinion.
You’re welcome to it.
But I can guarantee I’m not alone in thinking Vick is better than Cutler. That one really isn’t even that close.
As for the others, I disagree on Flacco and I put Cutler ahead of the others.
You can say I’m biased, though that’s baseless. But there’s an awful lot of Cutler kool-aid flowing in this thread.
fsuapollo - January 7, 2012
"But I can guarantee I’m not alone in thinking Vick is better than Cutler. That one really isn’t even that close."
not even close? Wow, you really don’t think much of Cutler do you?
lookingdeadred - January 8, 2012
I think he's an above average QB.
As I’ve said / inferred…. repeatedly.
I’m not sure why it’s a hard concept to understand that Micheal Vick is a better QB than Jay Cutler.
fsuapollo - January 8, 2012
Because many of us do not see than man love so many seem to have for Vick.
He certainly has great skills, but his play does not always measure up to his talent.
lookingdeadred - January 8, 2012
I'm going to guess
that some of the “man love” is based on Vick’s 4 Pro Bowl appearances (Cutler has one… 2008 when he selected for a good year but also nearly by default… Kerry Collins ended up being named as an injury replacement), his co-MVP award, and his electric ability. I’d say that might have something to do with it.
And this….
Certainly does apply to Vick. It also fits Cutler to a T.
fsuapollo - January 8, 2012
Vick has really been a 1 season shooting star
And now looks pretty flamed out. If I was an NFL GM with a solid offensive line, Cutler would probably be better in the long term.
ClarkFan - January 8, 2012
Yeah seriously
Vicky’s had one good passing year out of ten. His one good year was pretty fucking great, but I think it was a fluke.
Poloplaya14 - January 8, 2012
There's more to being a QB
than passing. But, if you want to go there… 2011 stats… Vick had a higher completion %, more yards / game, and a QBR within 1 point of Cutler, all while playing hurt the entire year.
When you throw in the rushing, he accounted for 70 more yards per game than Cutler.
And Cutler isn’t exactly a sparkling passer. Career 61.1% completions, 234 yards/game, and a 117 to 86 TD to INT ratio (with his best single year being last year… a “sparkling” 23 TDs and 16 INTs).
fsuapollo - January 8, 2012
I think you need to consider with cutlers stats
He doesn’t have good receivers and the offensive line is bad. Also the coaching staff is questionable.
Mitchener - January 9, 2012
What?
His 4 Pro Bowl appearances would like to have a discussion with the 1 year bit.
And flamed out? Why? Because he got beat up because of an awful line, just like Cutler?
fsuapollo - January 8, 2012
Getting in the Pro Bowl is like getting in the ASG - it goes to "headline" guys
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5448/career;_ylt=AkHD9D8SX7LKtEC9y3khhA3.uLYF
Vick’s passing line was pretty indifferent until last year, and everyone gushed about him because of the running (which was very good). But he is on the wrong side of 30 now, so the speed that made him will be faltering.
ClarkFan - January 8, 2012
Since players and coaches
pick a good portion of the rosters…. I guess they just don’t like Jay. That’s obviously the only reason he hasn’t made more Pro Bowls.
I’m evaluating the total package. Vick is a better QB than Cutler.
Cutler’s career: 1.36 TD to INT (as a Bear 1.29). And he’s only got one season left on the “right side” of 30.
fsuapollo - January 8, 2012
Cutler has gotten into the number of pro bowls he deserved; Vick has gotten into more than his play really merited
And Vick’s style of play is less likely to age well (he is 32 before next season) – he really, really needs his speed to make plays.
Now, I don’t think Cuter is top tier or top of the second tier. But some of the guys you rate higher aren’t any better than he is. Rivers in particular has had a strong cast around him – the 2011 Rivers is what you get with him in the middle of mediocre talent.
ClarkFan - January 8, 2012
Possible.
And I’d say that’s a much more reasonable assessment. Personally, I’d take Rivers over Cutler. To me, it’s not that close… but I can see a case being made for Cutler, even if I disagree.
I guess one problem with that would be you’d have to project what Cutler could do with decent help around him.
I don’t think Vick will age well, but he ought to have 2-4 more good years in him. The Eagles will certainly make building a better line for him a top priority.
FWIW, I’m not sure Cutler will age all that well, either. He’s been beat up a lot already and relies a lot on his superior arm strength. Once he loses a little zip on the fastball, he’ll have to improve the other aspects of his quarterbacking (which aren’t bad… around average… he relies on his arm too much to fit the ball in tight windows, which is where most of his picks seem to come from).
fsuapollo - January 8, 2012
you are not alone fsu
as a non bears fan its easy to see that Cutler is not elite. he’s a red zone turnover machine. I would compare him to a mark Sanchez. great(not elite) at peak and just awful when not. to say he’s better than eli,vick,and rivers is laughable. you’ve seen what eli vick and rivers have done when they bring their A game. I haven’t even seen a CONSISTENT “A” game from Cutler. He’s 2/3rd tier as far as qb. far from elite
RIP Slim - January 8, 2012 via Android app
Cutler is better than Schaub.
He’s also better than stafford- I don’t care how good megatron makes him look. Stafford has been remarkably consistent in choking against top competition, and the lingering image of his 2011 will be stafford bitching out a teammate as DJ Moore runs past him for a TD.
Cutler’s season ended during one of the best games he’s ever played. A game in which he was objectively kicking Phil rivers’ butt all over the field.
And Vick may be one of the best weapons in NFL history, but his style of play will lead to injury and simply wearing out each year.
Hasslebeck and Smith don’t belong in your post. They aren’t good.
Newton is kind of awesome, and i’d love to have him. Dalton’s ceiling looks awfully close to “cutler”. And jesus did you just mention Tebow?
D98 - January 7, 2012
Cutler and Schaub are reall close.
I wouldn’t fight anyone too hard who chose Cutler over Schaub or over Stafford or over Romo or over Ryan. But the reverse works, too. I’m not sure why everyone is so offended that I think any or all of those guys are better than Cutler.
Skipping ahead… Hasselbeck, Smith, and Tebow are all guys that some people would discuss in the same breath as Cutler. If you’ll notice, I “ranked” Cutler ahead of all of them.
Dalton: has the physical tools and is already has a higher football IQ than Cutler.
Vick: not if the Eagles actually built an OL, instead of rolling out one that did the nearly impossible… play worse than the Bears’ OL. And Cutler is really tough (he gets way too bad a rap about that in Chicago), he hasn’t finished the last game of his last two seasons… so he’s no health guarantee, either.
Stafford: Has a lot of the same qualities as Cutler, particularly from a skill POV. Right now, I’d take his upside over Cutler’s, but see the first lines of this post. As for his “lingering image”…… that’s only the image Bears fans will remember. Most around the nation just might remember him throwing for more yards than any other QB in December and leading his team to its first playoff appearance in over a decade.
Rivers: Had an awful year. But his track record is simply better than Cutler’s.
Obviously, I’m not as high on Cutler as many of you are. And that’s fine. I’m not real sure why I’m taking quite so much grief for what is largely semantics.
There just seems to be a whole lot of failed reading comprehension (and I’m not necessarily saying you, D98).
Can someone explain why my evaluation that Cutler is not a top 10 QB (which would be the widely held belief around football) means that I’m biased, don’t watch football, or that I think Cutler sucks? Those are simply irrational conclusions to draw.
I’d also mention that it would be worthwhile to see some of my antagonists here put together their own lists. Where do you all rank Cutler in the NFL hierarchy?
fsuapollo - January 8, 2012
I'm a Broncos fan and it is laughable to put Tebow in the conversation with any QB who can actually throw a football
Scoring 3 against KC was not a fluke.
ClarkFan - January 8, 2012
I'd put Cutler at about 9. After the elite guys, lumped with the 2nd tier guys.
I hate to cite Bill Simmons as an NFL smart guy, but I’d largely agree with this analysis from back in October, at least as it pertains to Cutler. I’d put Cutler and Manning in almost exactly the same position, late in the single-digits.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7160762/nfl-quarterback-power-rankings
Except, looking at that article, we have to keep in mind that Rivers absolutely tanked after this, and Cutler put together his best-ever run.
(And the fact that Fitzpatrick is considered even “average” here at #14.)
As for Dalton – I like him. I do. I am invested in him in a keeper league. I don’t think he has Cutler-level tools, and I don’t think I’ve seen him play a game like Cutler’s last one against SD. He could be a very good one – especially because he has a fantastic #1 option in Green.
As you know, it’s also tricky to compare counting stats – obviously, the Bears had some games this year in which they simply did not pass (i.e., Carolina, and 2nd Detroit after the defense returned 3 Stafford picks).
But I don’t think I’ve ever seen Stafford win a big game, ever. He didn’t beat any teams with winning records this year, and in a single playoff game he managed to throw backbreaking picks TWICE in the second half after his team clawed back into the game.
Hasselbeck has had a nice journeyman type career. He really shouldn’t be in this conversation in 2012, unless we were comparing him to Erik Kramer or Stan Humphries or any number of other nice, long-tenured legit NFL quarterbacks in the league’s history.
D98 - January 8, 2012
It all depends on the draft and free agent pickups.
We need at least another excellent Olineman AND a true #1 receiver. Another one would be good too.
Another Cb would be a smart investment too.
crackedcactus - January 6, 2012
I would say the Bears need (in no particular order)
A real #1 WR. A real #2 would be nice, as well. (They’ve got a couple of 3’s in Bennett and Knox.)
A TE who can stretch the field.
A real LT. 1 other upgrade somewhere along the line wouldn’t hurt, either.
A RB to complement Forte.
A disruptive DT to pair with Melton.
A DE to take pass rush pressure off of Peppers (I.I. is a perfect 3rd DE).
2 young LBs to groom.
2 more CBs who can play to account for all the 4 and 5 wide formations (particularly in GB and DET).
A real answer at safety. I’m not banking on Wright or Conte. They are maybes.
The Bears end up being greater than the sum of their parts, but that only holds together for so long. The team might have one more playoff push in them, but even that’s a stretch. This is a team very, very close to plummeting to the bottom of the division.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
until i see Knox take a hit
i would not included him after the injury he sustained.
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
good list ... very good list actually
lookingdeadred - January 7, 2012
a whole lot
Hammer - January 7, 2012
The Bears beat the living crap out of Detroit well into the season.
They aren’t in GB’s league. Few are. But Detroit is barely “good”.
D98 - January 6, 2012
I humbly beg to differ
Semantics perhaps, but the Lions rate a solid “good”. Not “great”, you understand, but a 5,000 yard/41 TD passer along with a receiver with over 1,600 yards passing receiver makes you pretty darn respectable.
That’s not to say the Lions don’t have flaws, and here is where I agree with you. Their running game is zilch, the defensive front has underperformed, and we could still use another good linebacker and safety.
EalyEagle - January 7, 2012
*over 1,600 yards in catches makes you pretty darn respectable
EalyEagle - January 7, 2012
What does that make the Bears circa 2011 Week 10?
D98 - January 7, 2012
A smart team that took advantage of a slumping divisional rival
on that given Sunday.
EalyEagle - January 7, 2012
Not buying it.
Detroit almost dropped half a hundred beating Denver the game prior, and then dropped another half a hundred against Carolina a week later. They were not “slumping” by any stretch.
They were, however, seriously exposed. And good teams have blown them up ever since.
D98 - January 7, 2012
And the Lions beat the Bears like a drum in the first match-up.
So that’s a wash.
The Lions’ results against other teams tell me they are better than the Bears (though I expect them to get worked over by New Orleans tonight). Their D still needs work, but they’ve got 2 players along that front who would start immediately for the Bears and a third you could make a strong argument for.
Who on the Bears offense would start in Detroit other than a healthy Forte? Isn’t Garza really the only one you could even make a case for?
When healthy this year the Bears and Lions were pretty even. But the vast majority of the Bears’ best players are on the downswing while basically every good Lion is still “young”. It’s not even a discussion as to which team has the brighter future right now.
fsuapollo - January 7, 2012
brighter, no question..
…but can that leadership execute with that talent? That is certainly in question. They are undisciplined at most positions (C Johnson and Stafford are certainly not) and Schwartz is a hothead. I could easily seem them regressing quickly.
JB 23 - January 7, 2012
They just gave up the most yardage in NFL playoff history.
C. Johnson is one of the greatest WR in the history of the game. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen an NFL guy physically look that dominant.
That said, I’m standing by my assessment from yesterday that DET is barely even “good”. They were better than bad NFL teams, got to the playoffs b/c almost everyone on Chicago got injured, and proceeded to get blown out in absolutely historic fashion.
Detroit beat no teams with winning records this year. Their most impressive win was 24-13 over the Bears in Week 5, after which the Bears cut their starting safety.
D98 - January 8, 2012
Some young talent
Conte, DJ Moore, Wright, Okoye and Melton are all 25 or under.
propheteer - January 7, 2012 via iPhone app
Um
Conte and Wright are still major question marks.
Moore wasn’t starting over Jennings or Bowman.
Okoye has already been cut by one team and had an awfully hit or miss season.
Melton I mentioned… and he’s the only one on that list who has a ceiling of “difference maker”. The other 4 could be starters, but are complementary parts.
fsuapollo - January 7, 2012
Technically Moore is a starter
since in today’s NFL the nickel back is very, very important. Look no further than the WRs he matches up against- Welker, Cruz, J. Jones, D. Henderson. He’s no slouch.
Conte and Wright are still question marks, but so are most of young players. One is a converted CB, who I believe has shown some good tackling and of course range at FS, and the other inconsistent because of injuries.
Bowman was never a starter; Lovie wanted to see him fail one more time in order to evaluate next year’s roster.
Okoye is only 25 year’s old- not too bad of a season playing a reserve role. This defense calls for a seven man rotation, so you can’t rely on stats alone. 4 sacks isn’t too shabby coming from DT.
propheteer - January 9, 2012
ISWYDT
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Head Coach gets to inverview those wanting to be his boss
gotta love that
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
All my anger towards how the Cubs were run previously
Now gets redirected to Halas Hall.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
it depends
we are going to basically have dual OC’s since they are bringing in someone still for the passign part
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
what happens if Rizzo does badly like last year
Will Lahair have to start?
Mitchener - January 6, 2012
my guess Rizzo starts in the minors
He is only 22. Big guy 6 foot 3, 220
Hammer - January 6, 2012
After seeing those numbers
I feel really really fat.
Arbusto - January 6, 2012
You're (we're) not fat. You're (we're) just short for our weight...
ballhawk - January 6, 2012
I like your logic
But I’m Rizzo’s height…I would like to know how tall I should be.
I’ll show you Shaq….
Arbusto - January 6, 2012
Big boned
timh815 - January 6, 2012
I'm guessing this doesn't leave much place for LaHair.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
guessing or hoping?
WGNstatic - January 6, 2012
You jump to the strangest conclusions sometimes.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
Huh?
Why would the Cubs acquire Rizzo if not to start him at 1B?
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
Because he's young and our other backup 1B is who, Jeff Baker?
I really like this trade, but I don’t know if he’s ready to be penciled in right away. Unless they’re planning on signing a vet backup 1B, LaHair needs to be around.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
I guess for now.
But I hope they give Rizzo every chance to make the team out of spring training.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
I think they're going to fall over themselves to give him every opportunity.
And so I hope it works out.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
I would be quite surprised...
If Rizzo is on the team out of spring training. Hoyer admitted he made a mistake in how he managed him last year, brought him up way too early. He realizes he needs more time. Barring him absolutely raking in ST or some type of injury, Rizzo starts the year at Iowa. He better be the starting 1B in 2013 and beyond (unless lahair turns into an all star).
mr_einstein - January 6, 2012 via mobile
Even then...
LaHair better be traded for value if he turns into an All-Star. You don’t trade for Rizzo and then let him rot.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
He's not "rotting"
The guy is 22 or 23, right? He’s young. And his K rate and contact rate indicate he needs a little more seasoning. Another half year or year or two couldn’t hurt him in the minors.
Besides, if LaHair hits well, we have “depth” at the position assuming Rizzo is up in the majors. At worst, we trade a performing LaHair during the year to bolster another need.
varrys - January 7, 2012
Just turned 22, he was 21 last year.
bdlugz - January 7, 2012
Maybe he has
a jump to conclusions mat?
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
Why, yes, I do!
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
So what would you say
ya do here?
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
"MOOT!"
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
Um
it’s pronounced “mute” point. Duh, everyone knows that.
tomas21 - January 6, 2012
its Moops
cozmotaylor123 - January 6, 2012
Moors!
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
Let go of him!
daver - January 6, 2012
I thought it was a moo point— it’s a cow’s opinion, it doesn’t matter
docks - January 6, 2012
My wife always says that.
“It’s a moo point… the cow don’t care.”
Rusty in Peoria - January 6, 2012
I'M VERY GOOD WITH PEOPLE!! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!!
BDR529 - January 6, 2012
Now I'm gonna have to go down to the state unemployment office
and stand in line with those SCUMBAGS!
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
...
BDR529 - January 6, 2012
Is it all that strange?
I think maybe Al should have said: This doesn’t leave much of a future for LaHair as a long-term starter at 1B. He could still play LF if a Soriano deal gets done; and he could still make the club and come off the bench. But clearly this has an impact in limiting his expected role at 1B.
Orval Overall - January 6, 2012
I'd think
… the Cubs would rather have an outfield backup who can actually play the outfield.
LaHair isn’t an outfielder. He’s a first baseman.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
He's a DH
He is below average at best at 1B, and way below average/bordering on Soriano territory in the outfield.
MVZ - January 6, 2012
I'd be a little more charitable than that about him at 1B.
But I do NOT want to see him in the outfield. At all.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
I'm sure a ball boy or bat boy job will open up any day now.
Otherwise, he’ll serve as excellent use at either the bench warmer or door stop positions.
crackedcactus - January 6, 2012
wait - are you saying Cubs have LaHair out of place?
ballhawk - January 6, 2012
sweep it under the rug and move on
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
and there will be the devil toupee!
EalyEagle - January 6, 2012
I just downloaded that song
cooliogirl47 - January 6, 2012
I wonder if they're parting ways...
http://sadtrombone.com
IowaCubs- - January 6, 2012
BOOM
daver - January 6, 2012
I think LaHair starts the season as our first baseman
and Rizzo starts in Iowa. He could use a little more seasoning.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
Me too -
as stated above. Makes more sense
Hammer - January 6, 2012
Maybe.
Depends on spring training, I’d think. If Rizzo has a big spring, he could make the team.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
same with BJax...if they move one of the others
MDavis - January 6, 2012
Possible
but I wouldn’t be quick to write off LaHair.
I love this trade, btw. I think Rizzo is going to be our first baseman for a while. But I still think Bryan LaHair can hit in this league.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
LaHair is going to have to be versatile and bring an OF glove to Mesa.
SackMan - January 6, 2012
Who would he be bringing that glove for?
He’s not an OFer….
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Better than Soriano
TJ11 - January 6, 2012
Actually... probably not, it's that bad.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
LaHaeir is probably the better hitter...so play him
If they both suck in LF
TJ11 - January 6, 2012
Might actually agree with you here
Especially if you can save 5M or so on Soriano in the process.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
agreed
TJ11 - January 6, 2012
I think LaHair starts at 1B, and throughout the season practices more in the outfield to spot start.
I believe 2011 was the first time he ever graced the outfield in his career. If he can become passable and not be a liability in the outfield when Rizzo comes up, just keep LaHair as a bench bat that can spot start at 1B/LF/RF and pinch hit.
ubercubsfan - January 6, 2012
He played outfield in the low minors
for the Mariners before they moved him to first base. Of course, there was probably a reason they moved him to first base.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
Maybe the manager couldn't see him in left field...
crackedcactus - January 6, 2012
I'd be cool with Platooning them honestly
It’s probably the only plus offensive spot on the current roster. Maybe Soto rebounds and helps out as well.
aaronb - January 6, 2012
they're both bad
argument resolved
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Yep. He could force the roster move.
SackMan - January 6, 2012
So you're saying the Rizzo(to)
needs more seasoning?
IowaCubs- - January 6, 2012
LaHair probably gets 40-50 games at 1B at the start of the year
If he is decent and Rizzo supplants him, he is another trade chip.
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
I would like to see some of LaHair
Clearly, Rizzo is the 1B of the future for the Cubs. But, he did struggle last year and may need a bit more time at AAA.
If so, there is nothing wrong with letting LaHair play some. Who knows, maybe he even establishes some trade value. At this point, LaHair is an unknown with definite upside but real doubts. That said, this is a team short of assets, so, it seems like a good idea to see what we have with him.
WGNstatic - January 6, 2012
Wrigley Field Vs Petco will definitely help his numbers
backtocali - January 6, 2012
Rizzo's AAA stat line from last year:
356 AB: 24 HR, 101 RBI, 1.056 OPS.
don’t bother looking at his 49 MLB games though.
Fukudometer - January 6, 2012
He was only 22
… and hitting in a home park that is death to LH power hitters.
He’ll do fine at Wrigley.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
When was the last time the Cubs had a LH prospect like Rizzo?
Billy Williams?
IowaCubs- - January 6, 2012
Mike Fontenot
Easy Ed - January 6, 2012
Hey - I miss Mikey
and he does have a ring
Ihatethecards - January 6, 2012
What was his nickname?
Mighty Hamster or something?
cubbybear - January 6, 2012
Wonder Hamster.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
Ah, memories....
carmen_fanzone - January 6, 2012
Sneaky power!
daver - January 6, 2012
I was looking for that.
Glad you found it.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
cwyers!!!!!
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 7, 2012
Palmeiro?
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
I'd agree with that, and Palmeiro was 22 when he was called up from Iowa.
Great time to be a Cubs fan, folks. Next crazy thing I’m going to hear is that it’s 54 degrees in January in Indianapolis.
Mapanator - January 6, 2012
He did strike out 30% of the time
Don’t think a park change will help him there. He might need more time.
Mitchener - January 6, 2012
That was in Tuscon though
You need to take those numbers with a grain of salt.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
Yup.
And his career minor league line: .296/.366/.514 in 1,629 PAs.
daver - January 6, 2012
and he's been young at every level i believe.
im very excited about this.
MDavis - January 6, 2012
That minor league line was in the Thin Dry Air division of the PCL....
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
I also understand that he had the best OPS and was the youngest player in that league.
Whether or not it’s the PCL, if he’s leading that league in offensive stats as a 21 year old, that’s impressive.
bdlugz - January 7, 2012
This guy Theo/Jed
work hard. Like it
Hammer - January 6, 2012
I kinda like this move
Low risk AAA prospect….
Unclemike - January 6, 2012 via mobile
I'm confused...who did we get?
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
Ah, Stockard Channing...
Rusty in Peoria - January 6, 2012
Nope. THIS Rizzo.
See. He has his own cap and everything…
Zeke - January 6, 2012
it that Lt. Harris?
epsilon - January 6, 2012
They are the same.
ubercubsfan - January 6, 2012
at least
he properly bends his cap brim.
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
option number 2. Definitely.
crackedcactus - January 6, 2012
Na is nothing to be concerned about
Little Korean outfielder with some speed but hasn’t shown much ability to hit. Would not have made my top 30 prospects.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
Know anything about Cates?
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
She's gorgeous!
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
Just don't put her in your J.C. Penney commercial.
Rusty in Peoria - January 6, 2012
Here's his
MILB page.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
Baseball America had him
as the Padres #21 prospect going into last season. He was a third round pick in 2010 who signed a major overslot bonus. Throws 92-94 with a changeup. Curveball is a work in progress. (This is all from BA’s writeup last winter.)
This season he started for Ft. Wayne and had a high ERA, but his peripherals look good for a 21 year old in the Midwest League. He’s a decent prospect and would probably make our top 30.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
this sounds like
we won this one too.
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
Na is terrible
He is a slap hitter, except unlike Juan Pierre, Otis Nixon, etc., Na really isn’t very fast. Above average maybe. He is a non prospect in my opinion.
MVZ - January 6, 2012
He's definitely got some speed - he just doesn't really use it effectively.
20 of 30 SB last year. He’s great defensively though. If he ever learns how to hit even somewhat decently, he may play at Petco. That’s probably the only park he had a prayer in.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Pretty solid trade for the Cubs
FlimtotheFlam - January 6, 2012
Bryan LaHair's day just took a turn for the worse....
Ross - January 6, 2012
I'm pretty sure he could confidently buy a house in Iowa at this point.
Mapanator - January 6, 2012
I imagine the trade dialogue went a little like this.....
TheoJed: So we’re agreed? Rizzo and Cates for Cashner. You sure you don’t want anyone else?
Padres GM: Na.
TheoJed: Great, a two for one deal. We’ll have Cashner on the next flight to SD.
Fukudometer - January 6, 2012
www.instantrimshot.com
EalyEagle - January 6, 2012
http://sadtrombone.com/
IowaCubs- - January 6, 2012
now sign soler and my dream of a castro, bjax, rizzo, soler core will be complete!
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
awesome news! Glad nothing else is going on today...
epsilon - January 6, 2012
Only good news Friday.
timh815 - January 6, 2012
will Rizzo be the opening day starter at 1b? how is his defense?
drodd - January 6, 2012
Rizzo's defense is excellent
but his hitting still needs some work.
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up being a lot like Mark Grace, actually.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
Yeah - we'll take that
Hammer - January 6, 2012
With or without the slumpbusters?
Rusty in Peoria - January 6, 2012
Hahaha
Hopefully with. Grace was just a mortal without ’em.
cubbybear - January 6, 2012
Considerably more power than Gracie
and much, much more swing and miss. Not even really comparable, IMO.
RynoRooter - January 6, 2012
My thoughts exactly. He’s much more Carlos Pena than he is Mark Grace
Donbedouin - January 6, 2012
Better average, better power than Pena.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Better average likely, but still probably no where close to the average numbers Grace put up in his better years. Pena had quite a bit of HR power in his prime, I’m not sure Rizzo tops that.
Donbedouin - January 6, 2012
No, Rizzo is definitely not a .300 hitter, I meant better average than Pena.
And it seems to me Pena’s 2 years of 39 and 46 HR are outliers… he’s averaged 27 HR/year in his career. I think Rizzo can average that as well, maybe 30-35 in his prime as I said.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
You think Rizzo has better POWER than Pena?
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
Potentially, as a left handed hitter in Wrigley?
I don’t think Rizzo will hit high 40s or 39 home runs in a season, but I think he can be consistent in the high 20s to very low 30s.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
I'd take that. And have a smile on my face doing it.
I digs me some Theo/Jed
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
I agree
and I’m not making that Grace comp. I was just saying I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up as a good glove, high OBP first baseman who didn’t hit a lot of home runs but hit lots of doubles.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
I think he'll have some pretty impressive power at his peak.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
I hope he does
I’m not making predictions, just outlining possible outcomes.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
Sure, unfortunately there are so many possible outcomes it makes it tough to predict.
And of course you need to take that line at Tucson with a HUGE grain of salt since it’s Tucson.
But I think his swing lends itself to some solid power throughout his career. Not Fielder type power, but in the 30-35 HR range at his peak.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Tucson’s not that big of a hitter’s park Link
Donbedouin - January 6, 2012
That was from 2007...
means less-than-nothing.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
He may be right for LH... I'm a little shocked. Looking up 2011 I found this
For LHB, Tucsons home park has a 101 Park Factor (100 being league average)
HR for LHB comes out to a 92 Park Factor.
I’ll definitely look into it a bit more.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
With everybody in the PCL going nuts last year...
an average park is still inflating people’s stats, maybe even below average.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
Still, even if you assume it's inflated all around.
There weren’t a lot of 21 year olds hitting 25 HR in 350 some at bats anywhere in the PCL.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Well that number (which if the column I found is the one he was referencing) was based on 26 games worth of data in 2011.
Donbedouin - January 6, 2012
I’ve yet to find anything more recent that’s of any sort of significant sample size considering the park wasn’t occupied in ’09 and ’10
Donbedouin - January 6, 2012
Look at what it says about Tacoma...
and that place was a launching pad last year as was pretty much the entire PCL.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
I also think it's a different park
I think the Toros played in Hi Corbett Field. The Padres play in the old ST digs of the Diamondbacks.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
I'm wrong
It is the same park. The Sidewinders (not the Toros) moved out of Hi Corbett before the move.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
Yeah, I'm having a really hard time finding 2011 park factor information outside of that tidbit I posted above.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
It’s not. That data was taken from 2006 when the Sidewinders played in TEP which is where the Padres played last year. Minor league ball (or at least AAA) hasn’t been played in Hi Corbett since 1997
Donbedouin - January 6, 2012
Yeah, but there were the road games in Colorado Springs, Reno and Albuquerque
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
He is a fair amount bigger than Grace was
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
This is great news!!!
Easy Ed - January 6, 2012
So if Hoyer leaves the Cubs next season
will he trade for Rizzo a third time?
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
I predict...
In a few years we will be ecstatic that we have Rizzo instead of Fielder
MissouriKev - January 6, 2012
Kev, I can only pay you the highest of compliments...
…Damn, I wish I’d said that.
BAMACOLONEL - January 6, 2012
6'3" 220 is in no danger of eating himself out of the league...
cubbybear - January 6, 2012
A few years? Heck I already am ecstatic
Eisman57 - January 6, 2012
I hope you're right
This plan better work, Theo/Jed. It better work.
Not Bruce Froemming - January 6, 2012
Or?
Arbusto - January 7, 2012
Or Jim Hendry returns!
Oh God please, let this plan work!!!
shoemile - January 7, 2012
The Cubs will continue to suck, and Theo/Jed will be eventually be fired
magicblue - January 7, 2012
or the same complaints about
lack of accountability will be made — and have absolutely no effect, just like they didn’t have an effect on Hendry, Sori, Rami, etc.
drewishdrewid - January 7, 2012
or the same complaints about
accountability will continue.
Which will have the same non-effect they had on Hendry, Sori, Rami, etc.
drewishdrewid - January 7, 2012
Wonder if this hurts Prince Fielder's pay check
Hammer - January 6, 2012
I would think it would...
It takes one of Fielder’s major potential suitors out of contention, and that can’t do him any good.
Rusty in Peoria - January 6, 2012
It makes it more likely he takes a deal with an out clause like Sabathia did.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
is compensation over now for the Padres?
or do we still owe them something for Jed?
epsilon - January 6, 2012
That's what I want to know
you’d think that they would bundle any compensation into a deal like this.
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
I thought I heard the Padres weren't even going to ask for any compensation.
Was that incorrect?
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
early on it wasnt thought that they would...
but then they did, and nothing’s been said since…i dont think.
epsilon - January 6, 2012
That's why they threw in Na..
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
If his BB rate is good, then Rizzo can truly say "I'm walkin' here!"
EalyEagle - January 6, 2012
Nice.
Zeke - January 6, 2012
Thankfully the Rizzo
we acquired is a little less frail and sickly than that Rizzo.
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
In over 1400 minor league abs - here is his line
.296 /.366 /.514 .880
Hammer - January 6, 2012
Whoa!
That was my first reaction to this! Are we good now with the Padres and Jed?
Uncle Fungus - January 6, 2012
Big fan.
Cashner they werent sure what to do with it seemed. they turned it into a potential cornerstone.
MDavis - January 6, 2012
Damn
another good move. Love it!
wild bill - January 6, 2012
Well this offseason sure
does show what Theo thinks of Jim Hendry’s work.
Hammer - January 6, 2012
Beginning to see a pattern here... The Epstein Way
1.) Make a comment saying a player has a future with the Cubs organization.
2A.) Trade that player within the next 72 hours.
or
2B.) Make a trade that significantly impacts that player by bringing someone else in.
Based upon the comments about Soriano being a power guy the Cubs can count on, he’s gotta be gone in the next couple of days.
Ross - January 6, 2012
Soriano gone in the next couple of days...
God I hope so. That truly would make 2012 feel like a clean slate and get me excited.
wisconsinwillie - January 6, 2012
Good trade for both teams
I would expect Cashner to fill a role in the Padres strong bullpen. Rizzo gives us hope for an All-Star potential first basemen without committing $200 million dollars. LaHair can become the power LH bat off the bench if Rizzo looks ready to start coming out of spring training.
tom veryzer - January 6, 2012
If Cashner lives up to his potential this deal might hurt
I’d rather a top starter than a 1st baseman.
Theo most likely saw Cashners injury as a red flag or saw him only as a closer
Mitchener - January 6, 2012
Another trade 'out of the blue', so to speak.
I like the way they go about their business. Viva el rebuild.
Schwa - January 6, 2012 via mobile
It's a risk, but a good risk, methinks. Trading potential for potential.
Last bit on the checklist: Getting rid of Fonzie?
carmen_fanzone - January 6, 2012
Getting more and more excited for the future of this team with every deal made
I don’t think they’ve made a mistake yet. Winning!
JG23 - January 6, 2012
I agree
I’m liking the moves. Glad to see they brought back Johnson too.
DCCubsFan - January 6, 2012 via iPhone app
Excited about what? Picking up a bunch of prospect that couldn't make
it for other teams. Just because you trade a player, it doesn’t automatically make you a better team. I’ll get excited when I see some real talent on the field. I don’t understand how just making trades gets one excited. If you trade bad for bad, you haven’t improved yourself. Don’t get lured info the false hope of prospects that couldn’t make it on someone else’s roster. Give me some major league talent, then I’ll be excited.
willie mays hayes' gloves - January 6, 2012
Right....
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
The trades are exciting...
…because they make the Cubs organization better. But I guess you’re right in a practical sense. The real excitement won’t begin until we have a starting lineup and pitching staff that we all honestly believe can contend.
daver - January 6, 2012
That't all I'm saying. Goodness knows this organization needs an influx of talent, but
let’s be real here. We really have no idea what these new acquisition will new. Let’s just slow down and see what happens. I truly hope these guys will make the organization better. We could really use some fundamentally sound players that can grow into a solid core of talent. I just hope this is a start.
willie mays hayes' gloves - January 6, 2012
I think the potential for a solid core is there.
Castro (ahem, pending legal issues aside) – Jackson (assuming his strikeout rate doesn’t kill him) – and now Rizzo. That possibly gives us three, good, young position players to build on. And, knocking back a shot of Kool-Aid, how cool would it be if Ian Stewart finally figured things out in a Cubs uniform? So, I think we’re heading in the right direction.
daver - January 6, 2012
The potential is there for sure. I would give me sore right arm for a solid group of
young players in Cub uniforms. At least Theo seems determine not to sign a bunch of temporary question marks that we know are here just to cash a big league check. I think these guys know enough that they have to draft smartly and get a good mix of college and high school prospects to restock our depleted farm system. That will be the key to building a team that will contend for the long haul.
willie mays hayes' gloves - January 6, 2012
Best part of this, to me...
Is no more Carlos “It’s a home run or nothing” Pena
Ross - January 6, 2012
You mean you didn't enjoy his check swing strikeouts?
bazfan1234 - January 6, 2012
yeah he did have a bit of Moises Alou check swingers
Hammer - January 6, 2012
I think a bit is a little on the conservative side...
I wish there was a stat for check swinging, if so, he probably led the league.
bazfan1234 - January 6, 2012
No joke.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
To be fair...
that should be home run, walk or strikeout or nothing.
daver - January 6, 2012
He just reminded me of that old TV show, Home Run Derby...
The announcer would always say “Remember, it’s a home run or nothing on Home Run Derby.” I would hear that in my head when Pena batted. When he got a hold of one, it was majestic, though.
Ross - January 6, 2012
I irrationally and immensely disliked that guy
shoemile - January 6, 2012
he was too nice
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
The Cubs got everything they could have expected out of Pena
Not his fault that it wasn’t enough.
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
I really like Pena
I think he’s a great guy and a decent ballplayer. But he really didn’t fit in to our long-term plans. I wish him luck in the future.
Josh Timmers - January 8, 2012
What's great about this deal is we got Rizzo and didn't have to give up Garza.
SoCal19 - January 6, 2012
Yeah, I'd like for us to hold onto Garza, have him pitch really well, and get a haul on July 31st from a contender.
Not expecting much from 2012.
Mapanator - January 6, 2012
rec'd
This just shows that there’s more good things to come. This probably takes Montero out of the picture from the Yankees.
IowaCubs- - January 6, 2012
We must be keeping Garza now.
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
Cates is a 22 years old. 3rd round pick in 2010
ERA stinks, but had 111 Ks in 118 IP.
SackMan - January 6, 2012
With all the recent pitching acquisitions, the Cubs need someone on the coaching staff who is really, really good at developing young pitchers.
If they can get these younger arms to their potential, they could have a real solid foundation for a pitching staff – just need one high-end FA starter to finish things.
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
Great trade, Rizzo could be.....
our left handed, middle of the order, cornerstone at 1B for years to come. Always, who knows, but for what we gave up, definitely worth the risk. Cashner may be very successful in that ballpark in San Diego, but I have no problem moving him to get a prospect like this.
Here is a nice in depth scouting report just from a few weeks ago:
http://baseballinstinct.com/2011/12/26/prospect-instinct-anthony-rizzo-1b-san-diego-padres/
Swanny1981 - January 6, 2012
Excellent.
The Padres put SO much pressure on this guy to be the next “A-Gon,” failure in a short MLB stint was all but guaranteed.
Banner headlines, talk shows exploded when he was brought up. There was a “Rizzo watch.”
The kid won’t have that same pressure on him in Chicago as a “savior.” I love this trade.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - January 6, 2012
You kidding me?
I think fans will want him to be the next Fielder.
ubercubsfan - January 6, 2012
Stupid fans maybe.
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
There are a lot of stupid fans out there.
I still am waiting for a team built on speed and doubles/triples power instead of the long ball.
ubercubsfan - January 6, 2012
You don't have to look futher
than the nattering nabobs on this board.
If you do your homework and you get lucky then those young minor league players become major league talent. It takes time but it happens. Those of you who want immediate pennant contender are silly. The same folks who have been calling for a rebuilding are the same ones poo pooing this trade. Give it time.
And there is no need to hate anyone on this team. Sorriano and Pena did their best. They aren’t not working or not trying, they just didn’t have what you wanted to see from them. They worked hard, they weren’t Gameboard, Even Z worked hard. Hating them because they didn’t meet your expectations shows how shallow you are.
bubbamike the one and only - January 7, 2012
I would not want to see the Cubs abandon HR hitters completely
Look at the teams that have won the WS over the past decade – they have been good all around, but a large majority have featured several serious HR hitters in the lineup. Earl Weaver’s formula of “pitching, defense and 3-run HRs” still works pretty well. The Cubs haven’t really tried that formula in recent years (and the 2011 team was 0 for 3); in particular even the better teams have had defensive issues.
ClarkFan - January 8, 2012
Why? Winning teams do not do that
nothing wrong with singles and doubles even SBs, but winning teams usually have pretty good power. I am not arguing for a slow-pitch softball kind of team, but you need home run power in the middle of the lineup to contend.
lookingdeadred - January 8, 2012
To ignore Home Runs would be to ignore some very talented players.
Your best Home Run hitters can have the best swing and will also draw more walks.
RiskyBusiness - January 8, 2012
You think there are expectations for this team to
contend next year? 2 years from now, yes. Not now. There is so much upside at low cost here, even if he starts the season at Iowa.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - January 6, 2012
And....
How could be be the “Next Fielder” if Fielder is never a Cub? What? The pressure was on in SD because a fan favorite was shipped out of town. No comparison.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - January 6, 2012
but
there is also the pressure that your “new” bosses have been chasing you all over the country
hansman1982 - January 6, 2012
Being the "Next Carlos Pena" IS much lower pressure....
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
First move I am not a fan of
Too early to give up on Cashner for a 1b battle in LaHair/Rizzo
meh.
RIP Slim - January 6, 2012
In the long run Rizzo will be a far better player than LaHair
He is SEVEN years younger.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
this is true
but we will have to follow up..
Acquire Fielder and Keep Cashner
or
Acquire Rizzo and Lose Cashner
See which pans out
IMO Fielder > Rizzo at their peak.(especially if we have half interleague schedule= half of that prince is DH)
RIP Slim - January 6, 2012
one is also 50x cheaper
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
but also
25X less productive offensively.
I know pitching wins championships, but you can’t win if you cant hit.
RIP Slim - January 6, 2012
SF giants
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
So when we have a rotation like SF
then we can ignore offense.
We’re 1/5th or, maybe, 2/5th of the way there.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
baby steps!
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
so baby steps so far
have 1/5 of a WS rotation
have 3/8 of a decent hitting squad, with 1 power bat(If you call soriano a power source)
RIP Slim - January 6, 2012
If you are referring to the WS winning Giants
they scored 29 runs in 5 games against TEXAS.(an offensive lead team btw)
SF:5.8 runs/game
TEX: 2.4/games
RIP Slim - January 6, 2012
That doesn't mean
they were a good offensive club. It means they had a good offensive series.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
If he pans out
Rizzo’s defence should also be much better than Fielder’s, especially as Fielder gets older.
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
Yes
Eisman57 - January 6, 2012
Half-interleague schedule?
I expect 30 or less games in and after 2013, half of which would be at home. It will be a regular occurence vice two blocks in the summer.
I was in the Fielder camp before, but I like this deal for some reason. It was a good gut feeling when I saw the headline.
Tat14 - January 6, 2012
plus 25 million dollars
DartmouthCubsFan - January 6, 2012
Oh jesus.
Or, Rizzo will fizzle out and LaHair will have a nice little career.
By your logic, my five year old is bound for a better MLB career than Prince Fielder because he’s younger.
You have no idea.
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
Rizzo is/was a much more highly ranked prospect, though.
daver - January 6, 2012
Still is, probably top 40.
I believe was 2 ABs short of not qualifying for prospect status.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
how many ABs
does Nunya’s kid have?
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
Doesn't matter, he's younger
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
Sure, and I think Rizzo has a pretty good shot at actually being better
But Al is speaking in definitives based on nothing more than “he’s younger”
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
it reminds me of SG's pro-dewitt argument
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
DeWitt is only 26!
ubercubsfan - January 6, 2012
I don't think they're "giving up" on someone when the return is who the Cubs hope to be the 1b for years to come.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
so you
would rather have Rizzo at 1b than a Fielder (@ 6 years deal for alot of money )for your cornerstone?
RIP Slim - January 6, 2012
what about rizzo and using the money for fielder on a guy like cole hamels?
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
This!
You can’t spend 25 million for every position no matter who you are.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
well based on what we have done
and what we are getting rid of..
Losing Pena + Ramirez =Fielders money this season
and then Z and Dempster are off the books and can be replaced with a Hamels or whoever we chose as a TOR SP
RIP Slim - January 6, 2012
but its a moot point
and its not happening..
I just hope we don’t wish “what could have been”
RIP Slim - January 6, 2012
Or maybe you get 2 quality starters now... it's always money able to be used elsewhere.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
yeah I hear you
but we are a team that can spend upwards of $150 milly and those pieces cant be fit in.
THAT SAID.
If we get Cespedes, or Soler or both i’d be better with letting fielder walk.
RIP Slim - January 6, 2012
It won't mean much to the casual fan.
But they really do need to sign one or both of those guys to placate the rest of us.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
Do you think
Edwin Jackson might be worth the money?
EcoGeek - January 6, 2012
noone in this offseason
is worth a damn. no TOR guys. that’s next season
RIP Slim - January 7, 2012 via Android app
NO
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
Not to mention pursuing a power bat for LF
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
any chance this has an impact on the garza negotiations??
maybe we lessen our demands and just take the best pitching prospects that we are offered?
jlb2609 - January 6, 2012
we are keeping him
we need to keep some form of starting rotation.
RIP Slim - January 6, 2012
My guess is that the Cubs keep Garza at this point.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
Do you think he stays past the trade deadline?
Mapanator - January 6, 2012
Why would they do that?
He’s never going to be more valuable than right now.
guayzimi - January 6, 2012
Why would he not be more valuable to a team caught in a pennant race and Garza pitches well?
I don’t see why it would be crazy to think that Garza’s value could still go up.
Mapanator - January 6, 2012
Yes.
Garza will be valuable all the way thru the deadline this year. The only thing time does to his value is in the cost control concerns.
Tat14 - January 6, 2012
Right now he's got two years left before free agency...
On July 31 he’ll have 1.33 years left until free agency.
guayzimi - January 6, 2012
Math exists in life,
but life is not math.
Tat14 - January 6, 2012
Something tells me you're not going to like many of Theo's moves...
guayzimi - January 6, 2012
I like all of them so far.
I just disagree with you about Garza’s value today compared to the trade deadline.
Keep in mind, he may stay a Cub as well. Theo is not only a numbers guy.
Tat14 - January 6, 2012
Why would 40 Matt Garza starts bring more than 60 Matt Garza starts?
Garza just had his career year in 2011. There’s nothing he could do in the first half of 2012 that will make up for missing out on 1/3 of his starts, and there’s a lot that he could do to diminish his value.
As for keeping him, it’s pretty clear the Cubs are not even pretending to be competitive in 2012.
guayzimi - January 6, 2012
there's more likely to be a bigger need for a SP at the deadline
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
why?
guayzimi - January 6, 2012
Because there always is?
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
speculation
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Look at when big name pitchers have been traded...
in recent years. It happens far more often in the offseason.
guayzimi - January 6, 2012
Right now
Teams don’t know if they’re contending or not, how their SPs will hold up through the season, etc. By waiting till the trade deadline, you get teams desperate to replace an injured starter, or willing to pay more to help ensure a postseason berth. These factors are absent during the offseason.
In addition to this, if we have Garza at the start of the season, I strongly suspect we’ll sign him to an extension, which only helps our case.
EcoGeek - January 6, 2012
true but also likely to be less teams involved
In the offseason, a lot of teams probably think they’re just one strong SP away from winning their division. Come trading deadline, a lot of bubbles will already have been busted.
ballhawk - January 6, 2012
this..
plus most teams behave in a rational manner. 60 starts is a lot more than 40 starts.
guayzimi - January 6, 2012
Well it can do two things...
He can possibly repeat or even improve on his 2011, driving his value up. There may be a team desperate to win that is not desperate as of now, which means they will pay more.
Weird things happen at the deadline… you can never be sure what someone is willing to give up.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
starting to look that way..
a team could get desperate with injuries or other complications during the season..maybe getting a nice haul of prospects before the trade deadline
jlb2609 - January 6, 2012
And my guess is
that Garza will be dealt… since the “full rebuild” is upon us.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
Yeah, could still happen...
…but should probably be for pitching at this point.
daver - January 6, 2012
Oh for sure.
I would think moving Cashner only intensifies the need to bring in more “young” SP depth.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
I tend to agree
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
it lives on!
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
The "Holy Trinity"?
Easy Ed - January 6, 2012
The Father, the Son and the Wholly Moses?
Zeke - January 6, 2012
I think this is a great trade, Rizzo has tons of potential
and could be the big left handed bat we have been looking for in the future.
It is amazing how similar Rizzo’s swing is compared to Jim Thome’s swing.
bazfan1234 - January 6, 2012
603 to go!
guayzimi - January 6, 2012
FWIW
Sullivan says:
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
Crap. Rizzo just got Sullivan'd.
Mapanator - January 6, 2012
Is expected by Sullivan? Or someone who actually has a say?
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
If you don't say..... then you can't be wrong.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
I wonder if Brett Jackson might be traded
Hendry’s guys are slowly leaving. Colvin and Cashner adios.
Maybe Jackson gets flipped for a top pitching prospect.
Mitchener - January 6, 2012
We should trade Brett Jackson for Grabow
I heard he was a top pitching prospect in the minors now…
bazfan1234 - January 6, 2012
Jackson is the type of player
that Jedstein like.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
I thought he strikes out too much?
SackMan - January 6, 2012
Nobody's perfect
but he’s solid in every other facet of the game.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
agree
the K’s will keep him from being a HoF candidate but he will be solid here for the next 4-5 years until Epstein ships him off.
hansman1982 - January 6, 2012
crawford, youkilis, ellsbury, ortiz...
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Strikeouts aren't an issue...
As long as you get on base other ways, and play defense. both of which Jackson does. I’ve always looked at Jackson as a more athletic Mark Bellhorn (a guy who helped TheoJed win a WS). He’ll K a lot, but get on base, and have decent power. But Jackson will be a much better fielder than Bellhorn ever was, and hopefully more consistent.
MVZ - January 6, 2012
99% of fans...
still haven’t gotten smart enough to overlook strikeouts. They’re an issue as long as teams are constantly fighting their own fans to stop booing productive players before they have to quit. See Mike Cameron in Seattle. We’re still a few years away from batting average and strikeouts not being an issue, no matter how many times a guy walks.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
I guess that makes me pretty dumb, then
I’ll go to my grave believing strikeouts are a wasted at-bat.
EalyEagle - January 7, 2012
Maybe if Stewart produces
Vitters gets moved for pitching.
SouthWabashSoul - January 6, 2012
Vitters would have to produce
for that to happen
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
I know it's Rogers, but I find this a little amusing.
lexmarklover - January 6, 2012
B-ROB!
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
TNO
TTTSNBN!!!
digitalbenjamin - January 6, 2012
PV!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!
hansman1982 - January 6, 2012
rizzo trade
yea way to go theo and jed best part is carlos pena tailights will never see him again only two hendry overpaid guys left dempster and sorryano!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
notcubbiewubbie - January 6, 2012
Z may be gone but 5/6 of his contract lives on.
the nth - January 6, 2012
What will they spend their money on?
I like the trade. My question, though, is where will the Cubs spend all the money they are saving (salary dumps, no Fielder contract, etc). Are they going to have a sub-100 mil payroll this year or maybe saving up for the 2012 FA pitching class?
shoebox76 - January 6, 2012
Cespedes & Soler
Hopefully….
The last place you can throw ‘only’ money around to get young impact talent.
nick5253 - January 6, 2012
I wouldn't be too surprised
To see some money going Edwin Jackson’s way.
EcoGeek - January 6, 2012
Isn't he asking for 15-17MM a year per Boras?
ubercubsfan - January 6, 2012
Asking and receiving
Are two different things. And with Z and Cashner gone, we need some starting pitching that isn’t a borderline #5 starter.
EcoGeek - January 6, 2012
Does anyone know how long Rizzo is under team control?
bazfan1234 - January 6, 2012
He wouldn't have "lost" a year of arb last year... so it should be 6.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
Thank you...
bazfan1234 - January 6, 2012
He will be a super 2 though I believe?
So he’ll start Arb1 in his 3rd year and go through the process 4 times.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Obviously depending on if he's the opening day 1B
Cubs could theoretically keep him in AAA for a couple months, I believe.
RynoRooter - January 6, 2012
But as he already has 128 ABs, it would be nearly impossible to avoid it I believe.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
as long as he is called up around
the trading deadline we shouldn’t have any issues with super two.
That should give LaHair a gooood looonnnnnnnnnnnnng look
hansman1982 - January 6, 2012
What if he starts in AAA?
Let’s imagine that he plays in AAA until mid to late June. Would that be any different than if he started the year with the big club?
WGNstatic - January 6, 2012
I'm not real sure about all the particulars.
I just (think I) know you get 6 years of club control… 3 “pre-arb” and 3 arbitration years.
So since he’s been in the big leagues for a fair bit (but still a rookie), I’d guess that half a year this year would get him to one service year.
But perhaps someone more nuanced than myself can chime in.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
He'll simply go to arb 1 year early, so he has 2 years of 'pre-arb' years and 4 arbitration years.
Since you can’t become a FA halfway through a year, that’s kind of how they make up the difference.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
so...
How long would he need to spend in AAA to not lose a year of team control?
WGNstatic - January 6, 2012
I don't know under the new CBA, it increased the % of players that are accepted to super 2.
Very very late… there would need to be something like 23% of rookies with more service time than him to avoid it, which since he has a 128 AB head start… maybe a September call up?
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
I read somewhere that
2.120 should be the new cutoff…2.130-2.135 was the old one.
hansman1982 - January 6, 2012
Theo Is As We Hoped
So far, Theo is everything we hoped for. This guy is under control through 2017. As these pieces keep filling in, you can see a foundation being built for the future. First time in my lifetime.
Theo seems to be excellent at “using” the media as well. He floats rumors like Garza trade to build a market, then pulls something out that wasn’t on one rumor page. It’s nice having a professional with a goal!
vin23 - January 6, 2012
Totally agree
Theo is great at playing the game of mixing up everyone else’s perception of what is really going on.
Lweb23 - January 6, 2012
I second that emotion.
DCCubsFan - January 6, 2012 via iPhone app
agree
we as Cubs fans need to learn to look away from the smoke and mirrors.
hansman1982 - January 6, 2012
As much as I liked Cash Money...
…I gotta give this deal a thumbs up because of all the uncertainty surrounding him. Even if he winds up a closer in San Diego, this could turn out to be a huge win for the Cubs if Rizzo is a starting first baseman for the next five to six years or so.
daver - January 6, 2012
Talk about an interesting week?
This one came from no where. I hope we have a manager, pitching coach and hitting coach that can pull this all together!
mrcubsfan - January 6, 2012
I should go to Las Vegas more often.
I come home to a load of Cubs and Bears news. All promising stuff (minus Castro).
Of course, I really don’t need another reason to go to Vegas.
Tat14 - January 6, 2012
wait, you were in vegas and didn't visit me?
VegasCubFan - January 6, 2012
Not real sure this "came from nowhere"
Many have speculated the Cubs would look to Rizzo as soon as Jed’s plane landed. And that only intensified when they acquired Alonso.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
Right.
The Padres were going to trade one of those guys. Alonso will now be their 1B.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
Ill be standing up and ready
if a pop up comes his way
Hammer - January 6, 2012
padres fans at GLB are not happy
although, i don’t think they ever are
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
How could you be unhappy
living in San Diego?!?
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
They manage to find a way
They’re always complaining down there.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
See if one of them wants to trade with me
and come to Atlanta
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
It's too hot.
Arbusto - January 6, 2012
No seasons.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
by too hot you mean too nice.
lexmarklover - January 6, 2012
No way.
I’m mad that it’s 45 here in Mn. I want my 10 feet of snow.
Arbusto - January 6, 2012
Dude...I had to wear a freaking FULL SLEEVE SWEATER this week playing golf until the 6th hole...
instead of my normal sweater vest. San Diego is a hell hole in January.
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
you wear sweater vests?
epsilon - January 6, 2012
ACTUAL PICTURE OF ME WEARING A SWEATER VEST
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
i wore won to Homecoming in 1998.
how are the guitar skills these days?
epsilon - January 6, 2012
he can play jordan on expert
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
i played Dragonforce through the fire and the flames on hard 100% one time...
epsilon - January 6, 2012
also *one...
idiot.
epsilon - January 6, 2012
ACTUAL PICTURE OF ME PLAYING A GUITAR WITH A VIKING HAT AND BEARD
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
how do i know you're just not holding a guitar
while wearing a Viking hat and beard?
epsilon - January 6, 2012
I guess you'll just have to trust me....
or come to san diego and jam sometime. I have a unicorn hat you can wear.
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
is it a unicorn
or a horse with a sword on its head?
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
unicorn...a horse with a sword? that's silly.
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
sweet...
we can jam as long as we only play the Batman (60’s TV show) theme song and Green Day’s “Jaded”.
epsilon - January 6, 2012
I'll teach to to play some Thin Lizzy.
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
Norman Greenbaum's "Spirit in the Sky"
ballhawk - January 6, 2012
The only person I trust without proof is Azjazzman
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
He's earned that right.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
i take everything he says with a grain of anti-salt
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
You better hope my salt doesn't come into contact with your anti-salt!
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
is anti-salt….. sugar?
docks - January 6, 2012
For this picture to happen, many things had to occur:
(1) You had to be in Walmart and think, "Man, I could really use a NASCAR-sucks t-shirt.
(2) At Hot Topic you found a viking beard hat, pondering, “Would my wife let me wear this?”
(3) You have a wife
(4) At age 11 a man in a cape rescued you from a fiery Amtrak crash
dtpollitt - January 6, 2012
You only got two of those sort of right...the correct answers are:
(a) I had to be in a seedy Las Vegas “Family Dollar Store” and think, “Man, this shirt will piss off most of my uncles.”
(2) At IKEA standing in line I found a viking hat with built in beard and pondered, “Why shouldn’t I wear this the next time an AT&T Salesman, Jehovahs Witness, Ghetto Candy Seller, Pizza Delivery Guy comes to the door?”
(D) I have an 11 year old daughter that likes to wear this viking hat and beard.
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
Is that part of a Garanimals outfit?
Rusty in Peoria - January 6, 2012
looks shopped.
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
I like this comment from someone over there...
“I hate you Theo Epstein Why can’t you just leave us alone?”
It feels good to actually have a front office that is admired/hated.
bazfan1234 - January 6, 2012
our old FO was hated plenty
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Hated as in by other teams/front offices...
not by Cubs fans….
bazfan1234 - January 6, 2012
i'm sure cards and brewers fans admired hendry
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Too true
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
I'm monitoring XX Sports Radio
The callers seem to be pleased they get a “rotation ready” pitcher.
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - January 6, 2012
Did the host tell them...
..that the Padres will be using Cashner in relief this year?
daver - January 6, 2012
No, the host is assuming Cashner is a starter
However, Byrnes came on quickly and I assume he explained, I couldn’t hear much of the short interview
San Diego Smooth Jazz Man - January 6, 2012
Byrnes said 8th inning guy and a potential future starter.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
I am
absolutely loving this offseason!! (minus the Castro thing)
I really liked Cashner……..but he’s pretty young to start having injury issues and we need a young 1B. Now…….if Soriano goes away is it possible LaHair starts in LF? He played RF last year a bit if I recall
plenz - January 6, 2012
LaHair in LF? plenz no
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
Theo and Jed shortly after completing this trade.
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
So, we currently have Garza, Dempster, Wood, Volstad, and Wells for 2012.
And no Dempster for 2013.
We need pitching. Make that Garza deal wit the Tigers for Turner and Smyly!
SackMan - January 6, 2012
THIS OFF SEASON HAS BEEN MORE FUN THAN THE 2011 REGULAR SEASON
dtpollitt - January 6, 2012
Well that wasn't going to be too difficult.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
Truth.
Arbusto - January 6, 2012
We've lost fewer games.
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
And Starlin has only made one error
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
poor footwork
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
i laughed really hard at that...
but come one…too soon!
epsilon - January 6, 2012
I see what you did there.
Mapanator - January 6, 2012
does that count
since it happend in 2011?
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
That was good
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
Well, I can see a couple...
cubbybear - January 6, 2012
surprises at every turn!
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Aside from today's awful news, I agree.
daver - January 6, 2012
You betcha!
Emelie - January 6, 2012
Rec'd
SackMan - January 6, 2012
What's to look forward to?
Simplistic to do list:
1. trade or dump Soriano, PLEASE!!!!!!
2. play the 2012 season (should be competitive, yet unlikely to seriously contend)
3. await the 2012 FA class, and get after it!
4. play the 2013 season, and contend for what we Cub fans want!
Slevdog1 - January 6, 2012
WS 2014
Hammer - January 6, 2012
2015
ubercubsfan - January 6, 2012
2014 and 2015
Hammer - January 6, 2012
Rays and Marlins contract to become the Gators and stay in the AL.
ubercubsfan - January 6, 2012
A Century Repeat of only back-to-back Championships in Wrigley Field!
Perfect symmetry for new management to match the Chicago Whales Fed League Championships of 1914 & 1915!
Someday…
GeneticCubsFan - January 7, 2012
Old Style brought back?
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
I am tired of being only half kreausened.
cubbybear - January 6, 2012
Cashner's shoulder
Think about it – The Cubs drafted Cashner after he was a closer in college. The moment they tried to convert him to a big league starter, his shoulder flipped out. I think his future is as a reliever, and even if he succeeds as a top closer in the game, I would take an everyday first baseman with power and a good glove over a closer – that’s a no-brainer.
KO Stradivarius - January 6, 2012
Absolutely
Think of the excitement after his first start this season. It was followed by a huge ‘uh-oh’ when both he and Wells turned up injured. Now we’ve turned that possible 3rd or 4th starter to fill a void at 1B plus a few more… win for the Cubs
JG23 - January 6, 2012
Factually inaccurate.
He spent a year his sophomore year at JC as a starter and two + seasons in the Cub minor leagues as a starter.
He’s had one injury.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
But his junior and senior years?
Didn’t he close then?
And those minor league starts, they really held him back. He never threw many pitches.
KO Stradivarius - January 6, 2012
He left after three years of college. 2 @ JUCO and 1 @ TCU.
Holding back pitch counts for young arms is fairly common all the way around… but yes, the Cubs were more cautious in his first full year due to making the transition back to being a starter.
fsuapollo - January 6, 2012
Love the moves so far
I appreciate that TheoJed realize that this organization is a mess and are starting from scratch. This club definitely needed a top to bottom culture change and they are doing just that. I think the in the short-term the Cubs will be in the running for worst team in the majors. No power and weak pitching will do that. Still, these moves are laying a new foundation and hopefully in 2 or 3 years we will really start to see a turnaround.
clnbailey - January 6, 2012
I think this year's Cubs Convention will have a lot of "Who ARE those guys? moments...
Zeke - January 6, 2012
Are the guys from Brokeback Mountain?
Just kidding…
eamus-catuli - January 6, 2012
TheoJed:
Boy, they got vision, and the rest of the world wears bifocals.
jpchi - January 6, 2012
Swoon
OK………….I’m old but hot damn.
Swoosie - January 6, 2012
Wut?
I’m still in vacation stupor. So we give up on Cashner just like that? What have I missed?
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
Rizzo, jerky!
R-I-Z-Z-O!
daver - January 6, 2012
A great first baseman
for an injury risk.
KO Stradivarius - January 6, 2012
"Great 1B"?
I thought Derrek Lee was a great 1B. This kid hasn’t played a lick of MLB.
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
153 at bats...
what constitutes a “lick”?
epsilon - January 6, 2012
TWSA
daver - January 6, 2012
More than Tony Campana's career ABs, maybe?
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
he does....
TC is at 143.
epsilon - January 6, 2012
This would be a good candidate
holy cow
monkeybiz - January 7, 2012
gocubbies - January 7, 2012
o.0
my kind of team, Charlie, my kind of team!
drewishdrewid - January 7, 2012
Okay, a "chance at" a great first baseman for a "definite" injury risk.
This kid has driven in 100 runs twice in the minors. The second time, in AAA, he eclipsed 100 rbis in 350 at-bats just after his 22nd birthday. That’s a prospect.
And you know that Theo and Jed love him, absolutely love him. He was the key in bringing Adrian Gonzalez to Boston, and we got him for Cashner? Think about that.
KO Stradivarius - January 6, 2012
That's a good argument.
But I believed Cashner was a solid foundation of the rebuild.
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
I'm convinced Soriano and Byrd will go bye bye soon.
lexmarklover - January 6, 2012
Maybe they're holding off on a Soriano deal until right before the convention.
So they can announce it to wild cheers and jubilation.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
I missed you.
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
That's not a .gif
shoemile - January 6, 2012
Whatever.
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
I have a huge crush on her
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
Who's she?
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
Sandra Bullock?
ubercubsfan - January 6, 2012
I thought it was her big-nosed daughter.
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
Didn't know she even had a child.
ubercubsfan - January 6, 2012
She adopted a baby boy
right as she was divorcing Jessie.
sue369 - January 6, 2012
Chick from Glee
Nunya likes em young apparently.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
So do I.
But my tastes are more refined…
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
She's 25 years old.
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
True...
but she spends most of her time as a lesbian high school student wearing a cheerleader outfit and in this very picture she’s waving around a juicebox.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
And yet, she's not young.
Also, I didn’t even notice the juice box, but it’s not like it’s a sippy cup.
I’m gonna stop arguing this now, cuz, well, she’s not young.
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
She was one of the featured dancers in Beyonce's video
For all the single ladies, and that was, like four years ago. She is a woman, not a girl, you’re right, Nunya.
cubzfan - January 6, 2012
I was making a joke...
and you’re just being you, so whatever.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
and she is pretty funny
My wife watches it – and I am most likely on here at those times.
Hammer - January 6, 2012
YAY I MISSED YOU TOO
shoemile - January 6, 2012
The less convinced about things we are
The more likely they are to happen.
Arbusto - January 6, 2012
Rebuild rebuild rebuild
Ace Venom - January 6, 2012
From Sickels' comments on Rizzo in his top prospects list
Rizzo: B+
Maximum outcome: Ryan Howard. Worst-case: Chris Davis.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
He has a body type more like Votto
Is Votto better than Howard?
I’m hopig Rizzo can play more like Votto.
Reddevil - January 6, 2012
Votto is considerably better than Howard.
I don’t know Rizzo well enough to comment on a comparison, but I know his swing has a bit of a hole in it – Votto’s is pretty perfect, IMO.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Love it
Just the move I wanted, don’t have to pay another hefty contract to fielder. I think they made the right move here.
dcox38 - January 6, 2012
http://twitter.com/#!/FollowThePadres/status/155365754886291458
that answers that
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Yep, Bob Nightengale just corroborated that.
daver - January 6, 2012
I wouldn't be happy with that if I were a Pads fan.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
Why not?
Sounds like they’re going to make 100% sure he’s healed and can handle pitching, then stretch him out.
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
I guess it's just the "possibly coming later" part.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
Don't forget though
They had no place for Rizzo after getting Alonso. They had to deal him for something and they got a long-term electric arm.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
They had room for him in AAA...
It’s not like he was out of options.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
No room in their long-term plans
Yes, they could have sat on him in Tuscon and hoped he gained value. But there is risk in that too.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
God damn it. I just want to give Theo a hug.
lexmarklover - January 6, 2012
you have to like it
even if Cashner turns into an all-star in Petco.
Worth the risk, imo.
SouthWabashSoul - January 6, 2012
I am just so darn proud of my baby brother!
dcox38 - January 6, 2012
Damit
I thought we were going after Adam Dunn!!!
Uncle Fungus - January 6, 2012
Bruce Miles just tweeted...
…that Jed Hoyer “sees Rizzo as middle of the order run producer but that he still has some development left.” So, as Josh has noted, he’ll probably start the season in Iowa.
daver - January 6, 2012
Good Quirk quote on your signature line. I might have to steal that.
Mapanator - January 6, 2012
Gotta love a good Quirky quote
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
I still smile every time I see it.
daver - January 6, 2012
Between this and Sullivan we now know definitively that the Chicago media
doesn’t effing know
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
and I love it!!!!
epsilon - January 6, 2012
The less
they know the better it is.
Swoosie - January 6, 2012
Are you telling me this Rizzo kid is better than Casey Lambert?!
Who the Cubs picked 17 picks ahead of the
PatriotsRed Sox? I don’t believe it!RiskyBusiness - January 6, 2012
Per Hoyer-
Rizzo will start the year at Triple A Iowa and LaHair will be starter at 1B
AzCubfan24 - January 6, 2012
Rats!
lexmarklover - January 6, 2012
I can't remember. Can LaHair play any outfield? And by play, I mean does he not hop and have knees?
Mapanator - January 6, 2012
Yes, LaHair can stand in the outfield
RiskyBusiness - January 6, 2012
Yeah
He sort of drifts towards fly balls.
I’m kidding. He’s bad out there, but he’s not terrible.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
I've seen Adam Dunn in LF
I now know terrible.
RiskyBusiness - January 6, 2012
It's just so they control him through 2018...
guayzimi - January 6, 2012
The Cubs will be a 70-win team in 2012.
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
Looking at our lineup as it stands right now, I think 70 wins is an optimistic projection for 2012.
Jody Jody Davis - January 6, 2012
LaHair ... cleanup hitter 2012!!!
lexmarklover - January 6, 2012
Top three pick!
shoemile - January 6, 2012
Confirmed by Bruce Miles tweet.
daver - January 6, 2012
WOW!
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
lolwhoops
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
at least he admits it. theo gets the hype, but i like hoyer too.
MDavis - January 6, 2012
Looking at what he hit in San Diego
I’m not sure how you admit anything else.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
haha true, but some GMs wouldnt actively come out and say that.
at least i dont recall too many doing it.
MDavis - January 6, 2012
Slightly OT - The Kerry Wood stuff is hilarious
I think it’s fairly obvious that the Cubs (Jed/Theo) have absolutely no use for him, but are being guilted into having interest due to his standing in the organization, and the fact that he took less money to stay with the team last year. I love Woody, but I don’t think he has a leg to stand on as far as leveraging a market contract out of the Cubs. Winning this coming season is clearly very low on their list of priorities, and rightfully so. Not sure how an aging late inning reliever with an injury history fits into what they’re doing AT ALL.
As for this Rizzo thing, I don’t know much about the minor leaguers involved, but based on what I’m hearing, it sounds fairly awesome. Correct me if I’m wrong, but an everyday player like Rizzo, probably holds much more value to a rebuilding team like the Cubs simply because of how unpredictable pitching can be (both in performance, and health). Thrilled with this off season so far, hopefully Soriano is the next one out the door
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
Completely disagree re: Kerry Wood
The Cubs 40 man is currently full. I would bet that the Cubs and Wood are pretty well set on an agreement, what is the rush though?
Anymore possible moves (Byrd, Soriano, etc.) could be made that will not bring in a 40-man guy. If the Cubs signed Wood today, that would mean someone would have to be waived.
As for how Wood fits in. He pretty much personifies the “Cubs Way” that Theo has talked about repeatedly. Good pitcher, good character, etc. A team needs leaders.
WGNstatic - January 6, 2012
Hasn’t Theo spent basically the entire offseason trying to destroy “the Cubs way”?
I know that Woody has value, and I know that he has value to this team (despite the fact that they have little chance to contend), but I don’t think Theo is ready to pay market value for that. He’s been all about adding long term assets. Woody is about as short term of an asset as you can get
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
Short term assets are important in a rebuild.
You need guys that wont be taking up spots or $ when your prospects are ready to step up.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
That's a good point
But I don’t think they’re as important when talking about the position that Woody would be filling.
Also, I’m assuming that if he were to sign here, it would be because he only wants to play HERE. That eliminates the possibility of trading him at the deadline to a contending team. I think a lot of the older, short term assets that the Cubs are compiling, are largely signed with that possibility in mind
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
How much value would he have at the deadline?
If we’re signing him to a one year, cheap deal similar to last season, there’s really no need to deal him.
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
He still has value.
Even if it’s small. If there’s a contending team that REALLY needs a reliever, and Woody is tearing it up, that’s definitely an opportunity for the Cubs to acquire someone that could possibly help them moving forward. it’s not all about Rizzo style trades
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
I'm very confused by your posts.
You started out by saying that we have zero use for Wood, and that Theo and Jed are somehow bowing under the pressure of Cubbie fandom (not bowing under in any way to build a team that can win now, but rather just to sign one cheap veteran) and now you’re saying there’s value in him.
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
I think I've been consistent
He has value, but not the value that he thinks he does (at least to this team). They want him, but likely not at his price
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
where do you think
his value lies? Is it in his pitching? His leadership? His veteran presence?
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
A combination of the three
but I think Theo and Jed are most interested because they really do think he can be effective next year
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
Also, I have no doubt that they would easily cut bait with Woody if it weren't for his history with the team
And I’m sure they see an opportunity to pick him up at a reduced rate due to how badly he wants to come back. Which increases their interest. Put it this way: If Woody wasn’t who he was, I highly doubt the Cubs would have interest
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
but he IS who he is.
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
Right. Which is why he's even on their radar
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
They paid him $1 million last year.
That’s incredibly cheap for a veteran reliever. Wood wasn’t awesome last year, but he also wasn’t god awful.
I’m not sure what you think his price tag is but I don’t think it could POSSIBLY be all that high
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
Let's say he wants $5 mil, which I think is entirely possible
I have my doubts about whether the Cubs would want to give him that to be a great clubhouse guy, and good releiver on a team that is gong nowhere.
And it’s not just about the cost. I’m sure Theo would rather see that opportunity go to a younger player that could help them in the future.
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
I'd agree -- $5 million would be too much.
I believe Woody is still a good pitcher, but he hasn’t exceeded 1 fWAR in value since 2008. I could maybe see them doubling last year’s salary and giving him $3 million.
daver - January 6, 2012
He hasn't even exceeded .5 fWAR.
And even if he had, it still wouldn’t be worth paying $3m (i.e. the Zambrano savings) to a veteran reliever with no upside.
I’m all for bringing him back, and the money really isn’t an issue, but I reject the notion that the Cubs have a need for his services.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
Half-jokingly, I'd argue:
$2.5 million (assuming he can equal last season’s pitching value) + $500,000 (bullpen mentor, clubhouse presence, community outreach) = $3 million. The Cubs probably don’t absolutely need his pitching services, but they still may want him on the team and value him enough to, well, overpay a bit. And, now that you mention it, using the Zambrano savings to pay Kerry Wood would be…I don’t want to say ironic…but fitting somehow.
daver - January 6, 2012
No savings
There isn’t any $ savings from trading Z.
AboutTheCubs - January 6, 2012
Well that's no fun at all.
daver - January 6, 2012
huh?
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
the 2.5 mill the cubs get in relief is basically what volstad will get through arb
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
so isn't that
2.5 mill in savings?
drewishdrewid - January 7, 2012
No... it's swapping Volstad for Zambrano.
bdlugz - January 7, 2012
how do you figure no saving from the Z trade?
Cubs Pay $15M of Zambrano Salary 2012
Volstad earns $500k
that is $15.5M
Zambrano full 2012 salary $18M
Variance of $2.5M in the Cubs favor.
now I just work in accounting, so I might not understand how numbers work, but the Cubs are paying $15.5M which is less than $18M so it is a savings of $2.5 compared to their contractual obligations before the trade
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
Volstad's gonna get a raise through arbitration
Most people estimate his salary for 2012 will be $2.5M
gocubbies - January 6, 2012
link this please
I have not heard that he is looking at a $2.05M raise.
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/projected-arbitration-salaries.html
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
per that link
Chris Volstad – $2.6MM which would still be less than the $3M we send, so there would still be a net savings
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
hairs: officially split
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
No...
I am talking about what Theo defined as the Cubs way. Let’s see, Kerry Wood plays hard, plays well, respects and is respected by teammates, is committed to the Cubs, etc.
Not sure why he would want to dump him, and frankly, neither Theo nor Jed has made ANY insinuation that they don’t want him on the team. This coming from guys who have really cleaned house, so it isn’t as if they are afraid to part with old Cubs for fear of looking bad.
WGNstatic - January 6, 2012
I don't doubt that they want him
I just don’t think they want him at his price. (which should be fairly obvious, actually. Considering a deal has yet to be done)
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
If that's the standard you'
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
Damnit
If that’s the standard you’re going to set then no GM EVER wants a player at his price.
EVER
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
Yeah, Jim Hendry will glady give you more
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
That ended that conversation
pdq.
SouthWabashSoul - January 6, 2012
On the contrary...
…with Cashner traded, the team needs a power RHP in the bullpen. I think Woody’s stock just went up. Plus, the trade of Z was largely driven by chemistry concerns, which also boosts Kerry’s value to the organization.
daver - January 6, 2012
This would be true if the Cubs had a possible contender.
Wood’s stock is irrelevant when it comes to what the team needs. There isn’t any player over 30 the franchise needs right now, especially relievers over 30.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
Well, there's needs and there's needs.
I think Theo & Jed are still trying to field a marginally competitive (not contending, but competitive) team in 2012. And Wood can fill the role that we now know that they saw for Cashner. Honestly, they’ve been so open about wanting to bring Kerry back that I’d be mildly shocked if he wasn’t signed soon.
daver - January 6, 2012
What is the difference between "Marginally competitive" and "Not competeitive"?
Because I think think the Cubs will be straddling that line this year
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
Well, taking a wild stab at it:
Marginally competitive: 70-80 wins
Not competitive: Below 70 wins
And, yeah, they may very well straddle the line. Possibly have another 71-win season. But I’m holding out hope for 75 wins.
daver - January 6, 2012
I'll be shocked if he's not re-signed too.
But it doesn’t have anything to do with Cashner or Kerry filling any need on this team.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
So you think he'll be signed...
…purely for sentimental reasons?
daver - January 6, 2012
I'LL SIGN YOOOOOU
FOOOOOOOOR SENTIMENTAL REEEEEEASONSSSS
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
If he has a job with the Cubs in 2011...
vs a younger arm, that is his prevailing value. I’m fine with that because the Cubs have plenty of open slots, especially after trading Sean Marshall. Their history of keeping relievers healthy and/or productive isn’t great, so it’s not like Kerry Wood is blocking all that much. However, I don’t see much in the way of an asset in him vs another player that might have more long-term value or a reclamation project.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
Needs him for what, exactly?
by the time this team is ready to contend, the bullpen will likely be entirely rebuilt, do you honestly think that Theo is losing sleep over not finding an 8th inning guy for this season?
(Btw, seeing as it looks as though payroll will be down anyway, I think they should definitely do right by Woody and hook him up with a decent deal to be a sort of mentor. I’m just specualting on the front ofice’s true interest, which I doubt there is very much)
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
Just because the team is going to be bad doesn't mean he's just gonna ignore holes.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
TWSC-
oh nevermind
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Maybe he doesn't view it as a "hole"
Maybe he thinks of it as an opportunity for a younger player to succeed. He’s spoken in the past about the value of having a position open to a younger player that might flourish given opportunity (that he couldn’t find elsewhere) at the big league level
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
Yes, won't some young man please step up and fill this hole up? Anyone? Come on, don't be shy!
santoswoodenlegs - January 6, 2012
Cmon, WAAAAY too obvious
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
and 4 minutes late
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
If he signs Kerry, it seems pretty obvious that he sees it as a "hole"
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
And he hasn't signed him yet, has he?
(which was my whole point)
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
True, but I think there are enough spots in the bullpen for young guys.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
As I noted above...
…Theo & Jed have made at least two pretty explicit statements about wanting to bring Kerry Wood back. And, to be clear, we’re not talking a multi-year deal here. Just another one-year deal at a presumably higher rate than he made last season.
daver - January 6, 2012
They've also made explicit statements that Carlos Marmol is their closer
Do you think that is because they truly want him in the bullpen next year, or because they have an ulterior motive? Everything Theo is saying and doing is with regard to the future of the club in mind. NONE of this is about short term (for the most part).
In Marmol’s case, I’m sure they think that his value is currently at an all-time low, so they’re saying these things because they want him to close next year in hopes that he bounces back, and they can ship him off to a contending team in need of his services. Again, nothing can be taken at face value.
With Woody, they’re saying all the right things because they’re very aware of his standing in the organization, and with Cubs fans. They’re handling the situation much in the same way that they did with Ryno. But the facts are the facts: It’s January, and Kerry Wood still doesn’t have a contract with the Cubs.
Theo views this year as an opportunity to start at the ground level and basically do whatever the hell he wants, and he “wants” a lot of young players. Playing on the major league club, and in the minor league system. Where exactly does Woody fit into that picture?
Even if they sign Woody, he actually has a negative value in terms of opportunity cost. The fact that his position is filled by an aging veteran that won’t be here when they’re competing, and they can’t trade, likely makes him close to worthless in Theo’s eyes.
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
Building from the ground level doesn't mean everybody
on the team has to be under 30. You still fill out your roster with a few veterans. And my guess would be you want those veterans to be guys like Kerry Wood that can be a good influence on the young guys. Your argument is getting tiresome.
Brock I - January 6, 2012
Ding ding
SackMan - January 6, 2012
stop making sense
RiskyBusiness - January 6, 2012
I agree, somewhat. I think Theo would prefer veterans that could have trade value at the deadline
Not immovable objects like Woody.
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
You still need veterans to teach the young guys after July...
Might as well get those guys that know the club on one year deals. It’s win-win, even if he isn’t tradeable.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Aren’t those called “coaches”?
Juiceboxjerry - January 6, 2012
Different levels...
Peers sometimes can accomplish things coaches or managers cannot.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Wood might not be completely immovable, if he's at the right price.
cubbybear - January 6, 2012
He'd want a NTC I believe. He only wants to play in Chicago.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
I don't think he even needs a NTC.
There’s an understanding, I think, that Wood won’t play for anyone else. The Cubs will sign him to a one-year deal.
If he has another rough year or gets hurt, I predict he retires after 2012.
OTOH, if he has a solid year, I could see TheoJed signing him to a two-year deal that would be his last MLB contract, and then he goes on to work for the organization in another capacity.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
Like
in the booth with Pat!
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
Possibly.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
Wood immovable?
After 4 hours, consult your doctor.
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
I guess we'll see what we see.
Theo has been, in my opinion, uncharacteristically effusive when it comes to the topic of re-signing Kerry Wood, so I still think a deal will get done. Otherwise, I’d largely agree with you — young arms like Carpenter and Dolis (both of whom may make the pen anyway) would probably be much more cost-effective options.
daver - January 6, 2012
I'm guessing
Wood gets 3 mil. I don’t know why that’s worth a debate. If they are signing him primarily because it makes the fans happy, and it doesn’t hurt us in the long term, then who cares?
There has to be SOME reason to watch the team next year.
tomas21 - January 6, 2012
Assuming Rizzo still qualifies as a prospect
is it safe to say he’s now the #1 in the Cubs org ahead of Jackson?
TheTruth11 - January 6, 2012
They are fairly close, IMO
But I would imagine the majority of prospect nuts would agree with that.
RynoRooter - January 6, 2012
It'd be close...
I’d take Jackson first still I think. Both are in the 35-45 range, I would assume. I’d put Jackson around 40 and Rizzo around 43.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Also, he does still qualify as a prospect by 2 AB.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
I'd rank Rizzo #1
But it would be really close. You could argue either way.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
Goldstein
I was surpised, but Kevin Goldstein has Jackson listed as a 5 star prospect and Rizzo as a 4 star. link
WGNstatic - January 6, 2012
I'm surprised too.
lexmarklover - January 6, 2012
There are some questions about Rizzo's ability
to turn on inside fastballs.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
Callis ranks Jackson
ahead of Rizzo as well. But Callis has always been high on Jackson.
Josh Timmers - January 6, 2012
I'm so glad we're back to talking baseball.
Emelie - January 6, 2012
terry cashman, is that you?
ballhawk - January 6, 2012
even jedstein are surprised by how bad hendry was
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Matt-Garza-Chicago-Cubs-Ryan-Madson-Prince-Fielder-010612
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
GROUPTHINK
shoemile - January 6, 2012
Meatball
Shanghai Badger - January 6, 2012
They're probably pissed...
Hendry didn’t sign Garza to an extension right after he traded Archer and Lee for him… especially when the team decreased payroll.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
8 years
eleventy kazillion dollars/ NTC
timh815 - January 6, 2012
You're seriously undervaluing Garza
you think he’d agree to those terms?
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
I think this trade says
we will be big players in the free agent pitching market of 2013.
Cubsfan Waveland - January 6, 2012
probably, but...
That is going to be a tough market. The Cubs better hope some of these upside guys step up (Volstad, Wood, McNutt). There are going to be a lot of teams in on guys like Hamels and Cain, assuming that is they even make it to free agency.
WGNstatic - January 6, 2012
I believe
enough of them will make it to free agency. If 2 of the 3 in Volstad, Wood or McNutt step up we could be an ace away from a very nice starting rotation.
Cubsfan Waveland - January 6, 2012
How does DeJesus fit into all these plans lol?
lexmarklover - January 6, 2012
as a short term stop gap
That’s not obvious?
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
you're right. I thought they gave him a three year deal. It's only two.
lexmarklover - January 6, 2012
Low-risk signing...
extremely cheap and flippable. Hendry didn’t sign him, so there’s no NTC.
jameslcrockett - January 6, 2012
In RF....
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
Anyone else worried about the value of last year's season tix pay by check trinket?
Colvin and Cashner traded away and Castro taking a pr hit at the very least
doofus cubs guy - January 6, 2012
credit card with cash back
RiskyBusiness - January 6, 2012
I miss making fun of Hendry.
I can’t crack jokes about the new management until [fill in the blank at will]. I need a whipping boy.
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
this team is devoid of whipping boys
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Don't worry the season hasn't started yet. There will always be someone to blame for something
Fat Punk Kicker - January 6, 2012
I'm sure he's being facetious.
chilango2 - January 6, 2012
I'm blaming Dempster
and Koyie Hill(even though he’s gone)
Itchy - January 6, 2012
Soriano is still a Cub isn't he?
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
Ask TJ.
shoemile - January 6, 2012
Cubs Fleeced the Padres
Horrible Trade for us, Good trade for you Guys.
Good Game Cubbies, Good Game.
Ron Mexico - January 6, 2012
first and only time
the phrase good game cubbies will be said this year
jesus christos - January 6, 2012 via Android app
you still play Houston 15 times.
Ron Mexico - January 6, 2012
fair enough
jesus christos - January 6, 2012 via Android app
A win does not always translate to a good game
Are there any winners when two 60 win teams play each other?
MVZ - January 6, 2012
Beer vendors?
daver - January 6, 2012
They may sell more to the poor saps who pay to watch that game
But they will have a far fewer patrons to sell to.
MVZ - January 6, 2012
someone wins a higher draft spot
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
or bottle spot
if we’re still talking about beer vendors
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
Cashner has some pretty electric stuff.
If he makes it into your rotation eventually, the deal may not be so bad for you guys.
daver - January 6, 2012
nice name
Michael Vick
pb5689 - January 7, 2012
WTF. I don't get to BCB all day and now all this
Figured today would be just a lot more Z bashing and I am busy on a new film so I get a big trade and the Castro assault story. Maybe if I stay off tomorrow Soriano & Garza will be traded and Kerry Wood will be accused of pissing in public. Interesting day but no time to go through all the posts. I expect the convention will be interesting.
Doggie Stalker - January 6, 2012
The trade was to deflect attention from the Castro story
Probably not a real trade. Just Al hijacking numerous media outlets and twitter accounts.
You didn’t miss anything. What’s the movie?
RiskyBusiness - January 6, 2012
Truly amazing film called This is Not a Film.
from the great Iranian director Jaffar Panahi ( The Mirror Off Side) Panahi has been sentenced to six years in prison for supposed anti- government propoganda and is currently under house arrest while his appeals his case. He is forbidden to make films but his fellow director Mojtaba Mirtahmasb who is also facing a prison sentence came over one day to work with him and they made This is Not A Film about how Panahi is trying to make s film. Hard to describe but amazing. It was smuggled out of Iran in a flash drive hidden in a cake and premiered at Cannes in May. Already on top ten lists despite not having opened yet (played a number of fests where critics saw it. Google it to read more/
Will be in Chicago in April.
Doggie Stalker - January 6, 2012
Wow. That is amazing.
daver - January 6, 2012
Iranian films are my favorite
often lyrical with many layers of meaning within a fairly simple story line. Hope this one comes out on DVD because I’d love to see it.
Emelie - January 6, 2012
This is a doc so not so lyrical but truly great
The Iranian feature film A SEPARATION is practically a shoe in for best Foreign film
Doggie Stalker - January 6, 2012
I've heard a lot about A Separation
all of it high praise. Can’t wait to see that one, too. This is Not a Film sounds like a fantastic doc – I’m fascinated with how film gets made at all in Iran and with such engaging results.
Emelie - January 6, 2012
The screenplay is online
if you like reading scripts. As a writer, I learned a lot from this one.
http://www.sonyclassics.com/awards-information/screenplays/aseparation_screenplay.pdf
patches23 - January 6, 2012
thank you!
Emelie - January 6, 2012
FYI Em there are 3 very active art theaters in AK
so it may yet play near you to see in a theater.
Doggie Stalker - January 6, 2012
Bet they are all in Anchorage
But I’m encouraged there are any at all! Actually, Anchorage is becoming more and more like any other city in the U.S. I’m in Fairbanks on the edge of the frontier. We do have a university here, and an active group of filmmakers. I’ll need to check it out and see if there’s an art theater on campus. Also, the local very cool drinking hole also has an excellent theater – I may ask them to run it.
Emelie - January 6, 2012
I have worked on films that played at the Gold Town theater in Anchorage
They are great to deal with. Are they on campus?
Doggie Stalker - January 6, 2012
Very doubtful but I'm going to investigate
Thanks for the tips!
Emelie - January 6, 2012
Reviews are fantastic
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/this_is_not_a_film_2011/
CubbyBlues - January 6, 2012
They will be even better when it actually opens.
Sorry but pet peeve it critics who have seen it in festivals insisting on treating it as a film in release. It was named the top film NOT in distribution by a group for an article in Film Comment that came out in December. It apparently they never noticed it had both a distributor and a confirmed theatrical opening in the US. It is a nice thing to put in an ad ( #1 film of 2011 per Film Comment) but it is unfair to the many films that in fact have no distributor. However roughly half the films on the list had distributors and confirmed openings. I realize this is the film version of “inside baseball” but it really pissed me off.
Doggie Stalker - January 7, 2012
Wood will be accused of peeing on Garza and Soriano in public the way this day has gone
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
Here's Hoyer on Rizzo's call-up last year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpvOvei0onk&feature=fvsr
And Rizzo’s first MLB hit… a triple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1icMpCv-uI0
SackMan - January 6, 2012
Awesome news
Wish I still didn’t feel so down about the other stuff.
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
I can only assume those people who voted 'Meh'
on the Rizzo trade poll were holding out hope for Fielder?
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
Or that Cashner was a #1/2 starter.
I’m surprised at the ratio, really.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Yeah
that makes sense. I guess I had resigned myself to the idea that he wasn’t going to be our ace, and was likely to pitch in the bullpen.
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
Or are hardened "prospect skeptics"...
…who think young players never pan out, which is somewhat understandable given the Cubs history with position players. But I’d remind everyone that we have a largely new scouting & player development staff now.
daver - January 6, 2012
Yeah, and it's understandable that Cubs fans would be skeptics
of free agent signings too with the way things have worked out here.
I, like you, have a lot of confidence in our scouting staff now. My faith in Theo (and with it his hirings) by the day.
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
I voted meh.
Had nothing to do with Fielder though. I didn’t want him, so in that way I am glad. Was looking forward to seeing what Cashner could do. I am fine with the move though. Just not so excited that I feel an exclamation point worthy yea is in order.
katie casey - January 6, 2012
Yeah fair enough too
I just have been really optimistic that Rizzo will be a stud first baseman.
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
The news earlier today
may also be putting a damper on my mood about anything right now.
katie casey - January 6, 2012
Agreed Katie
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
So if it was a choice of:
YEA!
yeah
meh
boo
NOOO
What do you choose?
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
yeah
katie casey - January 6, 2012
Fair enough...
I blame Al for putting an ! then.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Nah...blame me
for not knowing enough about Rizzo to be more excited.
katie casey - January 6, 2012
No worries - not everyone follows prospects closely and it's hard to know who to be excited about.
IMO, you should consider Rizzo on the same level as someone like Brett Jackson.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Brett who?
j/k
But sifting through the comments now I see many people who’s opinion I value are excited, so I am warming up to giving him that exclamation point after all.
katie casey - January 6, 2012
Sorry, too late, you're meh on him forever now!
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Well if he stinks I can say I was one of few
that were meh on him right from the get go.
katie casey - January 6, 2012
hipster cubs fan
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Way to look at the bright side!
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
yea?
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
Oh yeah...
daver - January 6, 2012
I'm there - "OK" without exclamations should be a vote option
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
You guys are so excited about Rizzo that you haven't even discussed Cates.
He’s a very nice piece to be getting along with Rizzo. Upside of a #3. I like his stuff. Here’s an in depth scouting report on him. http://mobile.mlbbonusbaby.com/2010/7/15/1570630/3-91-san-diego-padres-zach-cates
I like this trade alot…which is suprising because I loved Cashner but that being said, clearly Theo and Jed viewed Cashner as a RP and loved Rizzo which alone is a clear win for us, plus Cates? Steal. I love Cashner but I defer to Jed and Theo’s scouting eyes. Cornerstone 1B core for lots of years to come for a potential injury risk relief pitcher. Love it. And finally ends my worries about cubs not putting him in the rotation.
Ryno G - January 6, 2012
They really are doing well
adding pitching depth. It would be great if just one of these guys exceeds expectations.
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
I don't know if he's a future #3...
But he’s another top 30 prospect for us now in my book.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
From Sickels over at MiLB
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Well, wake him up then!
The young man’s got pitchin’ to do.
daver - January 6, 2012
Umm, you see how big he is? Might hurt me. I'll just poke him with a stick.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
dude should take a sheet
jesus christos - January 6, 2012
...and a shave?
daver - January 6, 2012
He better wake up if he ever wants t-wait
as I was typing this I saw daver’s. Well played.
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
Get me out of here, Cates!
willie mays hayes' gloves - January 6, 2012
Need pitching instructors now!
ClarkFan - January 7, 2012
FanGraphs comparing who else
Rizzo vs. LaHair
RiskyBusiness - January 6, 2012
Right.
And remember, Rizzo played a good part of the year in San Diego. He played only 93 games for Tucson.
If he’d have played as much in the PCL as LaHair did, I’m pretty sure Rizzo, and not LaHair, would have been PCL MVP.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
No doubt in my mind...
Rizzo had 26 HR in around 350 at bats. That’s crazy, even for the PCL.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
The Cubs had a guy
… who hit 25 HR in 290 AB in the PCL. Only four years ago. This guy.
Of course, he was seven years older than Rizzo when he did it. Rizzo’s clearly a better player.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
Haha, correct.
But Rizzo has good defense, soft hands, a good arm, good range, and can take walks.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
Exactly.
All the things that “this guy” (above) couldn’t do.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
you make
Clutche sad.
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
Now there's a blast from
… an I-don’t-really-want-to-remember past.
Al Yellon - January 6, 2012
Seems like only yesterday.........
willie mays hayes' gloves - January 6, 2012
he never did
get his jersey.
drewishdrewid - January 6, 2012
This guy.
I love this guy.
daver - January 6, 2012
Man this has been a crazy day
Today is my birthday….so I have been subjected to a low blow (Castro story), and then a glorious high (Rizzo trade). Plus it gived me a chance to laugh in all those Padre fan’s faces LOL!
One hell of a birthday present for me!
eswan9 - January 6, 2012
Have a good birthday man
Sorry for you the bad news earlier fell when it did.
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
Yeah thanks man!
I am gonna give Castro the benefit of the doubt here. I do like this trade, however!
eswan9 - January 6, 2012
Same here
can’t make judgements on that.
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
Happy birthday!
Emelie - January 6, 2012
Thanks Emelie!
eswan9 - January 6, 2012
Today is my birthday, too! Happy day, man! All of the great ones were born on January 6.
willie mays hayes' gloves - January 6, 2012
And a very happy birthday to you, too, willie!
Emelie - January 6, 2012
Thanks, Emelie!
willie mays hayes' gloves - January 6, 2012
Yeah, Happy B-Day, willie.
Good to see ya back.
daver - January 6, 2012
It's been a while,but I'm back and as cranky as ever. Get off my lawn!
willie mays hayes' gloves - January 6, 2012
REC'D
eswan9 - January 6, 2012
It's my birthday too!!
Nooblet - January 6, 2012
Happy birthday!
sue369 - January 6, 2012
Hope you had a happy one willie!
sue369 - January 6, 2012
Thanks, Sue. It's great to hear from you!
willie mays hayes' gloves - January 7, 2012
Happy Birthday!
sue369 - January 6, 2012
I think Theo and Jed deserve a raise.
dtpollitt - January 6, 2012
Fielder money.
daver - January 6, 2012
They at least deserve a lap-dance
from the Golden Girl of their choice.
AussieCub - January 6, 2012
Ugh... I thought they're trying to keep Wood, not lose Wood...
ballhawk - January 6, 2012
welp
JOVE23 - January 6, 2012
...
Emelie - January 6, 2012
Where the hell is the eye bleach?
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
Grandma?!
Say Ramrod - January 7, 2012
Years down the road,
for good or for bad, this will be one of a small handful of decisions on which this leadership team will be judged.
jerry morales rules - January 6, 2012
Why do I think that a previous Cubs regime would have mixed up their press releases today?
Castro would be on his way to San Diego and fake mug-shots of Cashner would be floating around the internet.
RiskyBusiness - January 6, 2012
I love TheoJed
playboyperry509 - January 6, 2012
I was over at Gaslamp Ball earlier today,
Trying to see how Padres fans were viewing this deal. Most of them think they got hosed, big-time. I explained what I thought about Cashner, but I think many of the GLB regulars were more upset about losing Rizzo than gaining Cashner.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 6, 2012
The way you conducted yourself over there
was awesome. It’s refreshing to see fans of other teams treat other fanbases as well as you did. We could have easily been over there mocking them, but we didn’t.
Adam U - January 6, 2012
We're not Padres fans.
Believe me, I thought I was going to get flamed, but that never happened. I’m not sure how often I’ll visit GLB. I have family members who are Padres fans, so I have some idea how to talk to San Diego fans.
Vermont Cubs Fan - January 6, 2012
you dont trade Cashner
he is the type of young pitcher you build around…..
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
Correction
Cashner is the type of young pitcher you hope to build around.
You can’t build around someone that has proven nothing. Theo and Jed weren’t impressed so they moved him. I’m fine with that. Cashner’s minor league numbers are far from dominant.
rlpete - January 6, 2012
the joke went right over your head
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
It was late.
rlpete - January 7, 2012
fixed...
CubFan90 - January 7, 2012
The Tribune says Rizzo will start the season in Iowa.
Avid Reader - January 6, 2012
Trade evaluation from Baseball America
Here
On Rizzo
On Coates
RiskyBusiness - January 6, 2012
That seems to intimate that Cates might be headed to the pen.
If his velocity is dropping 4 MPH as a starter, he should maybe head to the pen
Nunyabidness - January 6, 2012
It's pretty common to see a drop in velocity when moving from the pen to the rotation.
If he’s got good life and it’s low 90s, that’s not really a red flag. I’ve actually read other reports that he was sitting 92-94 as a starter, so I’m not sure what to expect right now.
bdlugz - January 6, 2012
What I didn't copy was
I’m not sure if there is enough track record to make a conclusion.
RiskyBusiness - January 6, 2012
All I can say is...
There’s going to be a lot of new Cub names inscribed on that WS trophy!!! LOL
BigJohnAZ - January 6, 2012
Great trade.
Genius timing.
SouthWabashSoul - January 6, 2012
Just Fun to Look at and Hear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1icMpCv-uI0
louslovechild - January 6, 2012
I was impressed
by how enormous Rizzo looks at the plate. He is one imposing dude.
gocubbies - January 6, 2012
The people on CSN Chicago are dumb
Cubbiegoon - January 6, 2012
True, but what did they say?
Castro stuff?
louslovechild - January 6, 2012
The moves so far have been good ones but.......
Who is going to drive in runs on this team. Who bats cleanup?
Mars10 - January 6, 2012
In September?? Rizzo
DDJ
Jackson
Castro
Rizzo
Soto
Stewart
Soriano(or his replacement)
Barney
louslovechild - January 6, 2012
Rizzo is batting twice?
Cubbie-Tim - January 6, 2012
?
The Rizzo at the top was his answer.
Adam U - January 7, 2012
you have soriano
on here but no Byrd. interesting
RIP Slim - January 7, 2012 via Android app
He is the immovable object
literally.
SouthWabashSoul - January 7, 2012
The post was talking about September.
So that could be a Byrd at the deadline deal (or still this off-season, obviously).
fsuapollo - January 7, 2012
straight from the rizzy my nizzys
RT @TheRizzMan27 i want to thank the padres for everything. i am very excited to start my new journey with the cubs and bring this town a championship!!
RIP Slim - January 7, 2012 via Android app
Already jinxing himself with the Championship talk.
Way to go, “RizzMan.” You’ll fit right in.
bluemagic9 - January 7, 2012
Err...
Hopefully SWL knows that one on his guitar.
shoemile - January 7, 2012
Good deal
a power hitting 1B was more of a need than another piece for the bullpen.
lookingdeadred - January 7, 2012
Does this preclude pursuing Fielder?
lookingdeadred - January 7, 2012
Looks like it.
Avid Reader - January 7, 2012
Rizzo for Cashner move by Theo...
“Brilliant!”
scottsdalecubs - January 7, 2012
...?
bdlugz - January 7, 2012
Haha
Same thing I was thinking.
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 7, 2012
Another
good move by Theo/Hoyer. Damn you Theo.
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 7, 2012
THEO/JED SO FAR...SO GOOD!
Theo/Jed are tag teaming this off season. The had a blueprint and they got after it! There’s no way this all gets done with 1 single GM in the office. These two are sharing the conference calls, working on deals separately, and coming together when needed. Rizzo is a great kid, like someone said earlier he will embody the ‘cubs way’ with his leadership and likability.
Their media manipulation is great. They are being creative eating money or if u wanna spin it a good way, essentially saving money on sunk costs.
We are slowly but surely stock piling high upside cost control guys. 2011 was a solid draft, to supplement all the returns theo/jed have gotten so far.
Added:
Travis Wood
Rizzo
Sappelt
Stewart
Torreyes
Cates
Weathers
Subtracted
Aram
Big Z
Marshall
Colvin
DJL
dlo03 - January 7, 2012
Also Added
David DeJesus
Chris Volstad
Andy Sonnanstine
Manuel Corpas
Weathers??
RiskyBusiness - January 7, 2012
He came with Ian Stewart. I cant believe i forgot so many guys. That’s when you know its a good offseason. It was off the top of my head in 2 minutes. Thanks guys!
dlo03 - January 7, 2012
don't forget Cashner on the "Subtracted" list
ballhawk - January 7, 2012
I didnt read all of the comment but I have a question.
I heard on the radio about the trade and they said he would not start in the Majors next April. I am just wondering why? He ruled in triple A and had a hard time in the majors. If we know he is good in the Minors why not see how he does with the team next year. I am just wondering I have nothing to argue but want to be enlightened.
lshaffer_69 - January 7, 2012
Hoyer said he rushed him last year.
So he’s going to give him some time in Iowa to make the necessary adjustments. If he plays well there he’ll be up soon enough.
shoemile - January 7, 2012
So LaHair starts 1B. But with a plan to move him to the OF?
scottsdalecubs - January 7, 2012
The plan is probably
to worry about LaHair when we have to worry about LaHair. If Rizzo is tearing up the PCL by the ASG, then we call him up and make him the first baseman. If LaHair is stinking then, we send him down to the minors and don’t worry about it. If he’s doing great, then he’ll be easy to trade.
Josh Timmers - January 8, 2012
more likely he gets moved off the roster
when he is exposed as a AAAA player, the reincarnation of Micah Hoffpauir
lookingdeadred - January 8, 2012
Hoyer said LaHair is a 1B who can play outfield.
But he’s not an everyday OF. He’s more Daryl Ward. Depending on how LaHair is doing when Rizzo is (hopefully) called up, it’s possible LaHair just moves to the bench.
shoemile - January 8, 2012
Then what the hell are you doing here?
I keed, I keed…
ballhawk - January 7, 2012
for a
team looking for pitching that’s 2 pitchers traded in 2 days.with rizzo and lahair we now have two players who may or may not hit big league pitching.if one succeeds we win.as for prince their stubborn refusal to take less than 10 years is keeping anything from getting done.im sure the cubs were interested but not for 10 years. sorry pal you’re no pujols and even that will blow up in the angels face.
NOMAR - January 8, 2012
Assuming Rizzo may not hit big league pitching due to a 128 AB sample size when he was 21 is kind of silly.
bdlugz - January 8, 2012
The Cubs also acquired a pitcher in both of those deals.
jameslcrockett - January 8, 2012
It's not the only thing they are looking for
They have previously stated their strategy.
1. Get more pitchers, better defense, and more athletic on the bases.
2. Turn short-term assets into long term assets.
3. Anytime you go with young players, it’s the right thing to do.
RiskyBusiness - January 8, 2012
Sorta new here
and dont want to get flamed for messing it up, so if someone wants to run with this go ahead.
Phils show interest in Wood as set up man.
RIP Slim - January 8, 2012
More suited to starting a fanshot.
jameslcrockett - January 8, 2012
not to mention starting another *interesting* discourse between Easy Ed and the rest of the free world
ballhawk - January 8, 2012
You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Bleed Cubbie Blue to post a comment.